♪ it's 1:00 a.m. on the east coast. 10:00 p.m. on the west. i'm ari melber. continuing live coverage of the first presidential debate that did veer off into a rule-breaking rant by president trump. he ramped up attacks on biden's family, and even if trump caused chaos that is hard to watch, as we noted. the clash did reveal two different leaders with two very different approaches to

governing and clearly to discourse. joe biden intent on staying calm and poised throughout. and dismissing trump, shaking his head and laughing and picking certain moments to pick up. slamming the president on covid and branding him a racist clown. >> the fact s everything he is saying so far is simply a lie. i'm not here to call out his lies. everybody knows he's a liar. >> when you listen -- >> will you shut up, man? >> listen, who is on your list, joe? >> this is so -- you're the worst president america has ever had. come on. >> this is a president who has used everything as a dog whiti e to try to generate racist hatred, racist division. by the way, my son -- >> by the way, mr. president, your campaign agreed both sides would get two minutes, uninterrupted.

well, your side agreed to it, why don't you observe what your campaign agreed to as a ground rule, okay, sir? >> he never keeps his word. >> let's be clear. the way donald trump conducted himself at this debate is very intentional. he is nothing if not a masterful, effective planner with how he wants to present on television. it was hard to watch on purpose. i was chaotic on purpose. if it made you, as you watch this right now, you clearly care about the news and politics, if it made you think i don't want to finish this, let alone watch a bunch more, that's on purpose. because it's ugly as it was at times. it was still an accountability effort. it was still a rare time where this president had to face a moderator journalist with a mike and his opponent in front of a live audience and deal, and his failure to deal, his desire to make it something else. to get people, even people who were interested in this to turn

it off, well, that's a sign that there's something about this forum, even as he compromises it, that scares him. something to keep in mind as we break down what is important from tonight's historical clash. we have a great panel to do it. former obama campaign kmanger david plouffe, and michael steele. david, you are widely seen in the democratic party as a victorious strategist, even with long odds of barack obama. your view on what donald trump was up to, that he wanted to shut it down and hack it. and how the democrats should deal. >> well, first of all, donald trump is losing the race right now. polls aren't votes but he is losing in battle ground states, in pursuit of the electoral college by five to seven points.

he has to do maximum things to win. he has to get massive turn out, and hopefully joe biden will get the turn out. he has to win all the undecided, and he has to pull current people ho are voting for joe biden away. let's not forget, people are voting. 10% of the wisconsin vote is already in. did any of the categories -- i think some of the base loved it tonight. they like the angry rants, and the fake toughness. but i think shut his cause back significantly in terms of acquisition. to the extent it was strategy, i think it was to turn off people so some people wouldn't vote. it was try to rattle biden, and missed moments, as happens in debates. but at the end of the day, it took enormous patience and strength to stand next to that monstrosity for 90 minutes. >> david, it took patience to watch it from afar, even if it's your job. >> right. so i know there's already a lot of discussion about should there

be a second or third debate? you cannot cower in front of a bull. the second debate will be modified. but it is going to include citizens, town hall debates. if donald trump brings that into a debate with citizens and basically doesn't let biden answer questions from people, it's going to be triple the damage. but this isn't working for him. i think it's terrible for democracy. i can't believe the rest of the world seeing it tonight. it's a very ugly look for us. but from a raw political standpoint, i think this debate was a really, really terrible moment for donald trump. he's losing this election. and i think biden did have his moments. he tried to bring the pandemic back as much as possible. health care. the thing we will talk about over the next two or three days is rally donald trump's rallying cry to white supremacists to stand by. an amazing moment in american history. that deserves a lot of scrutiny over the next few days. >> michael steel, as someone who ran the republican party and

joins our special coverage what do you make of david's point while there is a robust debate about improving the next round, david plouffe, as i mentioned, as the obama guru among others said you stay in this, and if it does have donald trump going to town hall, great. donald trump should bring that same energy to regular citizens. >> so, your opening analysis, your intro analysis i agree with. and i agree with my buddy david in his analysis. but i disagree with the end point. i think what we saw tonight was beyond an adomestic abombenatab. it was disrespectful to the american people. i get trump. i know -- this is all part of -- i'm going to make it as "s" show

ugly as i can and make it as uncomfortable as i can because i can. and that is why this should be the last time we see it. >> just to be clear. because i'm going to turn the same question to the senator. david says, yes, to more debates. >> no, done, done. we're done. >> and michael, you say -- >> done. there's no need to do more. the only thing we need to do right now is vote. the only thing that the american people need to do right now is vote. you don't want to see one more moment of what you saw tonight. because it's the culmination of 3 1/2 years, baby. i don't know -- what more are you going to see that's going to change your mind? this is all about entertainment at this point. this is all about degradation of human beings. the moment he disrespected joe biden's son the way he did, that should be enough. but, oh, there was so much more. so the fact of the matter is -- what do we -- in an abusive relationship here? where you just -- you hit me, oh more, oh, no, hit me -- no, what

is this? get a grip. we don't need to see any more. there's nothing -- you can put 1,000 people in front of trump in a debate with joe biden and you will get the exact same performance. but his calculation in his head is there is enough of the percentage of the audience that will like what i'm going to do. i'm going to do it. we don't need to see more. the only thing we need to do, ari and david, is vote. that's all america needs to do right now. get your ballot and vote. because you've seen it all. there is nothing new to come. >> senator? >> okay. wow. michael, you had me at hello on that one. what i really want to say this is. i had so many messages while i was watching for my kids. joe should just walk off the stage. and i said, no, he can't walk off the stage. he's going to have to show he

can take this crap. excuse my french, please. but i'm not a senator anymore. i can see it. >> you can say crap, sure. >> i want to talk as a female voter. i do not understand -- i thought when michael raised the point of abuse this guy reminds you of the boyfriend or the husband you ran away from because he's in a rage. he's in an uncontrollable, unhinged rage. and my dearest mother who i lost a long time ago -- i grew up in the big city and we'd go and look at all of the crazy things happening on the street. ful she saw a guy raging and interrupting and screaming at them, she would say to me, honey, call in the men in the

white coasts. that's how crazy this was. and i think the people who put on the debate, the commission and the moderators ought to get together. it's not up to joe to boycott. i don't think he should or he could. but i think they have to say, donald trump, we have to ask you, will you follow the rules and if you will not swear to do that, we're not going to have the debates. >> let's get into it, senator. you used to write laws. the president spoke about, quote, law and order. laws are not optional. they are enforced with sanction. sometimes it's civil. and sometimes it's criminal. but most people, if they keep breaking the law, particularly in public, they will meet that sanction. that's how deterrence works. i know it's saying basic things. but it's 2020 and a lot of things have been tested. so this commission makes rules and previously, there was bipartisan observance on most of the rules and now you've seen

it -- everyone's seen it tonight. and it seems that everything you've seen, there will be sanction during the debate. only language that matters here. the term love language. donald trump's love language is obviously television. if you say after two -- you know, verified interruptions you will be muted in the other person's segment, until you -- you might be muted the whole time when it's not your turn. it's kindergarten rules. but, senator, should that be on the table? >> yeah, that's what i said. i think it's really up to the commission and the moderators who saw this disaster. we are the embarrassment of the world. i heard so commentators say their young children were practically in tears, running out of the room. how can we raise our children and our grandkids, looking at this president. the highest office in the world. bringing it down to the lowest

level, no one could have gone lower than that. so, i do think it is up to those who want to move forward with the debate -- you know, i think chris wallace did the best he could. i'm being honest here. >> i don't know about that. >> well, i said the best he could, because he was pretty firm, given everything else he has to deal with, his bosses and all that. he was pretty firm. but trump was out of it. he was not into rules and regulations. last point, you brought up law and order. one of the best things i thought joe did tonight is when he said i'm for law and order and justice. >> yeah. >> and i think that was one of the highlights for me. when he used the word justice. it's the most beautiful word. >> all important points from the senator. in closing of this segment -- we have a lot more to come. but, david, i don't want to get

too religious this late at night. but i am thinking, in the democratic party so many people look to the example -- wwod -- what would obama do? so what do you think that he would do? obviously, there is many different accounts of trump's jealousy of president obama. that were he in this position as the last democrat to hold the office twice. and one of the only in the modern era to do it with majorities rather than in the three-way races that clinton had, what would obama do in the next debates? >> well, first of all, in 2012, the incumbent president bombed the first debate just like trump just did. the way to recover is not to double down on your terrible performance. it's to change it. so, you know, i think -- first of all, and i agree with senator boxer. it's not joe biden's job to fix

the debate. his campaign said he will do the next two debates. so the debates are happening. okay? the commission should do what they did. but even if there's sanctions, trump's going to do what he's going to do. and, listen, as hard as it is, i have two young kids, the youngest kids watched the debate tonight, and they were pained as well. we can't run away from hard things right now. we have to stare it in the face and understand that what you saw tonight is the reason that everybody has to vote and volunteer and become a poll worker. imagine what that person would be like in a second term. i mean, i really do think what happened tonight is -- he doesn't want to face the voters. he doesn't want to debate an opponent. he is an autocrat. this whole thing about having to face the music, face an opponent, actually have voters abide by an election, he's not really excited about that. he wants to rule and he wants to rule for life. so, i think what obama would do is focus on how you get across

the finish line to win this election. so, for joe biden, he's got two debates. i'm really excited they're going on a train tour. the i think that excites me right now, i think trump repelled any swing voter that was standing out hoping they vote for him. i think that part is over. the turnover, that's why we focus on younger voters in particular who they all hated trump tonight, i'm sure. that was a key debate. i think joe biden did a heroic job to try and fight through it. it was the hardest thing we did, ari. even for barack obama. people thought that turnout among young voters just happened. it was incredibly hard work to hit those numbers. >> sure. well, david, you referenced your children looking pained at times during the debate. i imagine they look a little like michael steele's face during your final answer here. he's a little pained, he wants to get back in, but he stays in

our special coverage. michael, stay with us, we'll get more of your thoughts. david and senator boxer, i thank you for being a part of this. we're going to get into a lot more of the debate including joe biden making his case defending his sons and why donald trump was the first to hit on nepotism. will any of that work? plus, michael steele in a fact-check when we return. they use stamps.com print discounted postage for any letter any package any time right from your computer all the services of the post office plus ups only cheaper get our special tv offer a 4-week trial plus postage and a digital scale go to stamps.com/tv and never go to the post office again.

a 4-week trial plus so you're a small a digitalbor a big one. you were thriving, but then... oh. ah. okay. plan, pivot. how do you bounce back? you don't, you bounce forward, with serious and reliable internet. powered by the largest gig speed network in america. but is it secure? sure it's secure. and even if the power goes down, your connection doesn't. so how do i do this? you don't do this. we do this, together. bounce forward, with comcast business. but my dream is to help young women feel empowered. i'd like to have online courses teaching them body positivity and self-confidence.

but when covid hit, i needed a financial plan to make it a reality. without andrea, my financial advisor from northwestern mutual, it didn't feel possible. she really put me at ease. andrea has my best interests at heart. she protected my dream. and speaking of my son, the way you talk about the military, the way you talk about them being losers and being -- and just being suckers, my son was in iraq. he spent a year there.

he got -- he got the bronze star. he got a service medal. he was not a loser, he was a patriot and the people left behind there were heros? >> really? >> i'm talking about my son beau biden. >> i don't know beau, i know hunter. >> donald trump eager to discuss his own idea of attack, hunter biden, while vice president biden was defending his sons, including the service of his deceased son, beau biden. a flash point for both candidates as trump hit that he's aligned veterans as, quote, losers and that donald trump repeatedly seized on any chance no matter how low to hit biden on issues that, let's be clear, often seen as donald trump's weaknesses. donald trump was, for example, at this debate the first candidate to bring up russia and family nepotism and notes that ran hollow for many viewers, if

you look at the whole thing, they do raise the questions was donald trump effective in any of those lines of attack. we turn to two politicals. he worked with donald trump and steve bannon and cooperated on the probe. and back with us who ran in the pretrump era and an opportunity to get things off his chest, at advertised, michael steele. >> sam, we've called upon you before, you're someone who has been close in that orbit with donald trump you've both also shown your independence later. walk us through your view of which donald trump we saw on those attack lines and whether in your political view, notwithstanding the great moral and understandable outrage over some of those attacks, whether you think politically any of those work? >> i think the president when he walked in and immediately started interrupting -- by the

way, he had multiple preparations throughout the week. he had decided this was going to be sort of a therapeutic session even for him, to vent. to get everything out that he thinks that the mainstream media doesn't talk about. and not to defend his record but really hit biden, and not give biden an inch or allow biden to take -- to take a strong point. i mean, you have to remember, this is the same joe biden who chairman steele will remember really, you know, destroyed paul ryan in 2012. and that was a big deal when he did that. right. he was somebody who has man handled other people in debates. and what you saw here is the president here, donald trump, had decided that he immediately had to take the offensive. he does not care about the

rules -- >> effective or too nasty. >> it has to be something where he's going to just have to make it a catastrophe where it will be candy for his base. >> effective? >> not really. not really. well, i think it will be effective in certain states, for instance, along with amy coney barrett who is eventually obviously going to get on the bench, to have biden not answer the question of whether or not should he be elected, he'll pack the court. that will help the president. but that's only going to help him get out more of his votes. did it help where there is going to be a two-point swing both ways? meaning that you will either have undecideds or you'll have seniors come back to donald trump after the way he answered the covid questions? i don't see it. i don't see it. and i think that he also -- he also -- you know, it was -- the

problem with donald trump in general, he never -- when he has somebody down, he almost feels he has to stomp them to death. and it was -- it got to be too much. even for somebody who doesn't like joe biden, you can say. he made joe biden -- or you think joe biden is too old, or you think there are issues that have not been covered about biden's career. the way he did it, it just became as if he was bullying him for, you know -- he was overbullying him. the way i phrase it. >> michael? >> yeah, i think sam hits on a number of very important points. i mean, both of us have worked with donald trump. he, more recently than i have, and have seen various sides of his character and his nature. and i think the overwhelming thing for me in what sam is saying, two points.

one, is he never even got joe biden down on the mat. he just started randomly swinging. so, it's like, you know, you go into an mma fight, you got that guy who figures his opponent is probably better than he is, so, what i'll just do, i'll just go at him and hope i land a hit. and okay, you land a couple punches. but then what you realize is that your opponent isn't on the mat. you're still swinging wildly, and a time, everyone just steps back and looks at you, and goes, what the hell are you doing? so, that's one. the second thing, when you are the incumbent president of the united states, what is your first order of business in your first national debate? regardless of everything that has gone before. the first order of business is to look america in the eye and give them a reason for a second term. >> sure. >> that sets the tone for the evening.

donald trump blew -- he didn't blow by it. he didn't approach that particular spot. >> didn't try it, no. >> didn't even try it. >> no. >> so, you have a lot of americans, whether it's 3%, 7%, 10% of independent, undecided, however they want to frame themselves voters who have no rationale for his reelection. his hard base does. certainly, opponents like myself, we don't see it, right? and for those voters, to sam's point where he could have landed a couple blows. and then in the course of that made that part of his rationale for a second term and missed. >> michael, you talk about mma and landing blows, so we're doing the full fight analogies, i take it. >> let's go. >> i've got to follow your lead. there's no michael steele like late night, baby, baby, michael

steele. >> oh, baby, let's go. >> and late night msnbc viewers know, sam, you can make the analogy to ali foreman, and foreman was seen as a bigger, bolder puncher at that moment in the rumble jungle and ali took a lot of punches and still ultimately won. and describing what you described, as his personal therapy, will take hits. i want to play one moment where after many hits landed, biden did sort of loosen up. whether this was planned, because we know we're watching a very planned performance. where it partly was coming from and he did say enough is enough and hit back and how it looked after all the wild swings to use mr. steele's lexicon.

take a look. >> 200,000 dead. as you said, over 7 million infected in the united states. we in fact have 5% -- 4% of the world's population, 20% of the deaths. 40,000 people a day are contracting covid. in addition to that, about between 750 and 1,000 people a day are dying. when he was presented with that number, he said it is what it is. well, it is what it is because you are who you are. >> we're going to play -- when biden hits him and says, shut up, et cetera. let's take a look at that. if we have it. we may not have it. we may come back to you. sam, the point in the debate which many people watched, after many hits, biden saying, enough already. shut up. >> also, that was the most pivotal point of the debate. everybody was going say, as we normally do, and you heard it for years, the first 30 minutes are the most important. no, the covid section is. why? if donald trump was winning seniors during this cycle at the

rate he was winning them 2016, along with the gains that he's made with african-americans that he has, african-american males primarily and hispanics, even with the women he's losing in the suburbs, you'd probably have a virtual tie nationally and he'd be way ahead in the battlegrounds. he is losing them because of covid. they agree with them on immigration. they agree with him on the majority of the culture issues, the seniors who voted for him the last time. but they feel the way he handled this pandemic could lead them to die and that he doesn't take it seriously. and joe biden's most lucid point at the debate were frankly there. whether they were canned or not, he was prepared. and he was joe biden from 2012. that is -- that is who he was. that is who he came off as. i had not seen that. i suspect you're going to continue to see that in the next debates.

because if it's up to joe biden, this election is going to be about donald trump's personality, character and covid and that's a winning formula for him. >> yeah. >> so, i thought the president, he was too defensive. he didn't talk about any accomplishments, anything going on, and he had nothing to answer. all he had to say was joe biden was stupid and told him not to shut down china. >> interesting, many key points here, and sam, you have a window. you said something that amidst all the chaos, it overlaps with what michael pointed out. the sitting president comes out, and interrupts to dominate and take time, and even with the extra time, very rarely even argues for why people are better off four years later, let alone factually and with evidence. and that's something that the american voter can hear with their own ears and decide on. i want to thank sam and michael

steele. good to have you sir. >> all right, bro, you got it. take care. good to see you. >> appreciate it. appreciate both of them. it may be tough to narrow down but we have several key fact checks, and we will talk about it with everyone. where were the lies? we've got you covered. these folks, they don't have time to go to the post office

they have businesses to grow customers to care for lives to get home to they use stamps.com print discounted postage for any letter any package any time right from your computer all the services of the post office plus ups only cheaper get our special tv offer a 4-week trial plus postage and a digital scale go to stamps.com/tv and never go to the post office again. a 4-week trial plus so you're a small a digitalbor a big one. you were thriving, but then... oh. ah. okay. plan, pivot. how do you bounce back? you don't, you bounce forward,

with serious and reliable internet. powered by the largest gig speed network in america. but is it secure? sure it's secure. and even if the power goes down, your connection doesn't. so how do i do this? you don't do this. we do this, together. bounce forward, with comcast business. so much to break down from this debate we haven't even gotten to, including our fact checks starting here.

>> violent crime went down 17%. 15% in our administration. it's gone up on his watch. >> it went down much more than ours. >> here are the facts. part of that is true. violent crime did go way down under the obama/biden administration about 16 1/2%. the other half was misleading, biden referring to violent crime going up in trump's presidency. but it really was stacked. statistically, shows it up under a point. that is stagnant. making biden's claim that it's a misleading exaggeration, and trump said it went way down under his administration, totally false. important to get into that, even though at times some of those factual claims did seem to take a backseat to all of trump's interruptions and fighting. and then there was a discussion about drug prices, donald trump making a blatantly false claim that he is somehow lowering them through his administration.

but, actually, we'll show you stalts regarding the prescription drugs shows it rising rapidly in recent years. donald trump not cutting them at all. then there was a discussion that election results could take a long way to count. this is interesting it's a change from the way donald trump had previously discussed the election and it's true. because of more voting by mail, this year, because of the pandemic, there are widespread expectations, especially in 14 different states including battlegrounds like pennsylvania that don't even begin processing those ballots until election day. translation, it could take a long time. history a guide here, you may remember florida 2000, who doesn't, it was december until the supreme court resolved that count. and trump made this claim -- >> they said it could be a miracle to bring back manufacturing. i brought back 700,000 jobs,

they gave up nothing. >> false. united states has gained about 500,000, not 700,000, a major difference in manufacturing jobs heading into 2017 and that's charitable because it's looking at covid. 250,000 jobs have been lost during the pandemic making donald trump during covid especially misleading. finally, this one meets politics and safety. donald trump said he only holds outdoor political rallies. if you watch the news, you already know, that is totally false. it is a lie. the president lying about, for example, these indoor trump rallies. you may recall there was one in oklahoma, in arizona. the virus was skyrocketing, there's one in las vegas this past month. there's even a rally that herman cain attended, many speculating that because he ultimately died from covid. let's join our strategists.

fordham university's christina greer. good to see all of you, christina, obviously, we've covered tonight many other issues that came first. and we had experts confront the proud boy, the white supremacy. the discussion about the debate. we had interesting disagreement across people who have been critical of trump about whether there should be even be more deba debates. specifically, your view on why donald trump lied more than joe biden and what that means during a chaotic debate like this. >> well, ari, this president lies so easily and so quickly. he's very quick-witted when it comes to his lies and he does it with such force and authority, those of us who have been following him for quite some time, know it's almost natural to him. sau almost like the air he breathes or the water falls that come down like insulin.

so it wasn't a surprise. the disappointment was chris wallace wasn't able to rein him in and be ready to fact-check him just because we've seen the president lie with such inpunety over the past three plus years. >> jay. >> well, i would say the lying is not a glitch it's a feature. when you lie, it's a show of dominance. it's a show that the rules do not apply to you, it's a show that you are in charge and you cannot be held accountable. that's something that donald trump very much wanted to communicate all the time particularly in this debate where it was basically a primate ritual where he was speaking over joe biden for the length of the two hours. >> do you think, chai, it's an unique struggling with donald trump and hillary clinton in addition to being a woman nominee and all of the cross-issues there, do you think

that donald trump struck a nice balance or that donald trump was running the night? >> well, a casual viewer could say donald trump was running the night, the problem is that a casual viewer, like most voters, what they really want is a return to life. and the problem was donald trump's performance was completely abnormal. there was no sense -- if you're a person worried about losing your life to covid or losing your job to a bad economy that you wanted four more years of this circus. you want to return to normal life. and donald trump simply did not deliver that tonight. yeah, he dominated but he still lost. >> victoria. >> so, this was a debate where donald trump was speaking to his base. he went into it knowing that he wasn't going to pick up any undecided voters, any of those women in the suburbs of plain kn plano, texas, saying, hey, i like what this guy is saying and

i'll vote for him. he's in his alternate reality. they have trump goggles where years and years they've been told that everything that doesn't come out of the white house or from the trump campaign or the trump team, it's fake news, that it's only real when it comes from donald trump, part of his team, fox news. so, yes, he's lying and it comes natural to him. think about the audience who he was targeting, ari. it's a very specific audience. he knew he needed to speak to that base, get them riled up, get them ginned up. try to poke at biden, see if he can get him off balance. he didn't, this was about speaking straight to those folks. >> you said trump goggles? >> trump goggles and beer goggles. >> now, christina, those glasses look somewhat orange, are those

trump goggles? >> don't you dare, don't you dare, ari. >> they're pretty orange. they might be described as burnt orange, what do i know. >> they're yellow glasses for hopes of sunshine. when you have a president who is telling white supremacists to stand by or a man who can't come up with a plan to leave the office decently, and we have a man with no glass at 1600 pennsylvania avenue, and i agree with my colleague over there, yes, ari, sometimes we do underestimate the extent to which white nationalism has been in the foundation of this nation. and donald trump has tapped into it in a very palpable way. despite the economy, despite covid and despite how this man has run the country into the ground at a certain national

level, there's certain people who will never leave him because he speaks a language that they believe in. >> chai, if you're donald trump and you go on the stage and you put on trump goggles, it makes chris wallace like alex jones. >> i'm sure that's the case for donald trump. >> and you're flabber gaf eberg real questions. chai, i want to return to that, because you've been inside of these campaigns and a student of this, and chris wallace is getting scorched not just by trump critics tonight. >> right. >> i, myself, have shown viewers a report of where i think he ran into problems. >> correct. >> and yet, in the same ways that sometimes the united nations is criticized as if it's the u.n.'s problem, but in fact it's what happens when a lot of countries talk to even other. i wonder if there's a construction under the criticism that another moderator -- unless

they get a mute button or real hook, there's no rules. and donald trump has pointed out you want to be a big jerk and you don't care what anyone thinks of you, sure, there are things you can do. just like you go to a dinner party and there aren't actually planned sanctions over what to do if someone eats all of the food and no one else gets any food unless they resort to physical force. we don't have to go to those levels. that's now uncivilized it was, goggles or not, chai. >> yeah, but i would say, chris wallace did not do donald trump any favors tonight. they may argue oh, donald trump interrupts joe biden. it didn't help donald trump. quite frankly, donald trump needed to be quiet. it would have been a better strategy for him to let biden go on at length. we have seen in previous debates, 2019, early 2020, if biden is on to go on at length,

you might have a possibility for a biden gaff. the problem is, constantly talking over biden, trump didn't even get that -- i mean, you talked about ali/foreman. you talked about rope-a-dope, but trump was the dope. >> christina. >> yeah, i think trump was allowing him to spin him into butter at times. what's really disappointing, ari, someone, i know vicki and i have talked about this in the past with you, ari, as someone who is trying to inspire a future generation to be interested in politics participatory in politics, this isn't a person going to a dinner party eating their food, this is eating their food with their feet.

that's what it was. what have we decided about health care? what have we decided about the 210,000 americans who died from cov covid. and the millions more in desperate need of health care because of the coronavirus or recession or unemployment. so, i think the president did himself a disservice, quite honestly, i think we to be a little more macro. he did the country a disservice because so many people are worried about november 3rd, as they should be. i don't know if this is worry turned into action or worried and they'll be so paralyzed because they're finally realizing the extent to which donald trump poses an incredible danger to our democracy. >> victoria, that goes into the fact that we're deep into the late night coverage and we tried to cover aspects of it. we haven't even done much time about the fact that the sitting president brought up the alleged drug use of the former vice president's son. which, again, by any standard

measure, as you make a decision in a race, this is just not something that americans -- i don't care what party they're in think it's relevant, let alone justified or classy. and that was one of 17 things, victoria. >> so, typically, family would be off-limits when we're talking about politics, even when it gets rough and tumble and dirty. the family is off-limits. but then, again, in this new era, i'm not going to let too many things surprise me. but the other point here, ari, is that over the last couple of years, trump has tried to have this image of himself as, you know, helping folks out of the opioid crisis. i taught a class last year on the opioid crisis. and his administration has actually done quite a bit looking at the opioid crisis. not as much as they could do, but they have gotten the ball rolling.

it was also surprising from the policy standpoint where you can footage of him, you can pull speeches of him at different summ summits, at different forums, where he's talking about the opioid crisis of how we need to deal with this with compassion and figure out a sensible solution to it. and trying to change the tone there on the issue of substance abuse, drugs. and then you hear him say this biden's son. so, you know, it goes against, you know, everything we had known in the past about what's offlimits and what he was trying to brand himself as, as turning the corner on drug policy in the u.s. >> and important point as you tie it back to policy. i've got to take a break. christina greer, i just want to state for the record, folks joining us late, you were saying you wore those glasses i believe in tribute to donald trump tonight, do i have that right? >> ari melber, you are one lucky

guy that i am tuning not from 30 rock, from my location. >> fair, you know. >> that was three times. >> professor, you often point out, things we haven't thought of, there's another one, because this is zoom, i'm making this point in safe distance not in the normal 30 rock, in person, like i would do. >> that's right. >> sometimes because twitter doesn't always get that this was a joke and the professor was not wearing it for that reason. professor greer, and victoria and chai, thank you to each of you. when we come back, we're going to take a look at the wider cultural actions. forget the pundits, forget the media. we're going to take a look at what all of you are saying to this live interaction in this live debate.

we have been discussing and

covering this debate and it automatic lie dominated the internet. i joined the tweeting and wrote, this first presidential debate of 2020 really felt like 2020. now there was plenty of snark and opinions. we'll show you a buzzfeed headline. the first biden-trump debate stressed everybody the heck out. and as donald trump in serious promote s and the line about white supremacists. he said, bro, all they said was condemn white supremacists and this man started sweating. there were plenty of opinions rolling in about moderator chris wallace. "the daily show" noting that chris wallace's performance tonight was a great reminder that kindergarten teachers are underpaid.

#debate2020. if you really watched this thing, you are reminded how the determinants or adult of donald trump really did track with and require the kind of moderating that people did with children. that is a straight forward challenge. now, rachel maddow suggested, perhaps we can also debate by mail. hillary clinton was part of msnbc's special coverage this evening. she was also, of course, watching and when people were referencing how she felt about all of this including she might have wanted to do what biden did and tell trump to, quote, shut up. she responded herself to joe and said, you have no idea. that is the first of these three debates. the other thing that comes through here when you look at all the reaction is that everyone is watching.

one theme throughout that i want to mention as we wrap up our special coverage this is what donald trump apparently didn't want. he didn't want weighing in and fact-checking him. he didn't want chris wallace from fox news -- that he made clear in the beginning of the debate that they were in some sort of fight, too. he positioned himself as a victim of the onslaught and, in fact, the only onslaught here is that rare time when tens of millions of americans, we'll get the full count later, are held to account even as he went all over the place. now, before we end, we did want to show an important moment that everyone can judge for themselves. donald trump asked by the moderator about pledging to follow the independent certification of the election. take a look. >> will you pledge tonight that you will not dedeclare victory until the election has been independently certified. president trump, you go first. >> i'm urging my supporters to go into the polls and watch very

carefully because that's what's got to happen. i'm urging my people. i hope it's a fair election. it's a fair election, i am 100% on board. but if i see tens of thousands of ballots being manipulated, i can't go along with that. >> i can't go along with that. a term, a famous phrase, that is not what democracy looks like. i want to thank you for joiningous late night special coverage. you can always follow me, ari melber only if you want to see what we're doing on facebook and twitter, @arimelber. find me on "the beat" 6:00 p.m. week nights. have a great evening. vening

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all right. gentlemen -- >> no -- >> if you -- would you have been months later, joe. >> mr. president -- >> you're talking 2 million people -- >> the moderator -- >> the mandate was the most unpopular aspect of obamacare, i got rid of it. >> i'm the moderator of this debate, i would like you to let me ask my question and you can answer -- >> go ahead. >> mr. president, will you let him finish, sir. >> he doesn't know how. vote now, make sure you let people know -- i'm not going to answer the question -- >> why wouldn't you answer the question -- >> the question is --