tonight, we begin with a tonight we begin with a remarkable statement. the president of the united states has announced he and his wife have both tested positive for the coronavirus. donald trump tweeted just over an hour ago. tonight, flotus, the first lady and i have tested positive. we begin our quarantine and recovery process immediately. we will get through this together. hope hicks accompanied president trump to his minnesota rally on wednesday.

the president revealed earlier tonight he and first lady melania trump had entered some form some of quarantine after learning about hicks' results. >> she did test positive. i just heard about this. she tested positive. she's a hard worker. wears masks a lot. she tested positive. i just went out with a test. we spent a lot of type. the first lady tested also. it's very hard. when you're with soldiers, when you're with airmen, when you're with the marines and the police officers, we're with them so much, when they come over, it's very hard to say, stay back. >> always someone to blame. donald trump who doesn't wear a mask usually or promote social distancing is often seen in close proximity with his entourage who also do not follow experts' precautions. tonight the white house

physician shaun conley confirm the president and first lady have tested positive. he said both are doing well and plan to remain at home within the white house. dr. conley ended his memo with this, quote, rest assured, i expect the president to continue carrying out his duties without disruption. we know that not to be true. we know some of that is not going to happen. melania echoed that in a short tweet some time ago. we are all feeling good, and i east postponed all upcoming engagements. the president is 74 years old, which puts him at high risk for the virus. it's called comorbidity, reasons the disease can strike you more seriously than the average person. hence, this is an incredibly serious moment. the leader of the free world has tested positive for the coronavirus. the leader of the free world insofar as you believe that, so let that sink in.

joining us now by phone is the dean of the brown college of public health. dr. jha, thank you for joining us. give us a sense of what you've learned over the past couple of hours. i'm sorry. we're going to go over to hallie jackson. hallie, what's the latest? >> so what's the latest? i can tell you if n tn the last couple of minutes, mike pence has made a remark. forgive me for looking at my phone. he says that he and his wife send their love and prayers to our dear friends. he says we join millions across america. the vice president does not indicate whether he has been tested, when he and his wife have been tested, or what

happens next for him from here. i can tell you that we have made multiple inquiries to the president's office to find out more about that. i want to lay that out first. second piece of new information since we've been on the air thank y talking, when it comes to the staff members who have been in contact with the president, the expectation is they will end up getting a call saying, hey, go quarantine, which makes sense, for staff members interacting with the president today. as you know, he was traveling today. he got on "marine one," "air force one," went to new jersey, came back, went to the white house. that's part of the circle that will need to be addressed. i'm told the president looked perfectly fine today, did not show any signs or symptoms, which tracks with what dr.

conley said and the first lady, that she and her husband are both feeling good. listen, this is a significant moment here. we talk about this. the president, as you say, is in his 70s. he's part of a risk group here. this is incredibly serious. it appears as though he's not symptomatic based on what his wife and doctor have told us so far, but there's a lot of questions as to other people that may be at risk at this point. how far back that contact tracing needs to go given the people that the president has interacted with, you have to note on tuesday night, we were in cleveland, in the room with president trump, my producer, myers, my crew, other members of the debate crew in the presidential hall with his family and adult children who traveled back and forth. so presumably those people are being talked to as well, all of

those people that traveled and were around his orbit at this point. when you look forward to -- that's kind of the new stuff, the health piece. and let's talk about what happens moving forward, ali. we know the first lady has canceled events. to note, she has a staff of her own, entire east wing staff who has constant contact with her. you have campaign travel. the president had a very, very aggressive campaign schedule. he wanted it that way. the closer it got, the more impactful it would be. you mentioned the debates. that's a huge question mark. i don't have an answer for you. we have reached out to others who may be able to shed insight on that. in the campaign for biden, there

are questions on that. the big question has been answered. after hope hicks, one of the president's closest confidantes, somebody who spends a lot of time with him, tested positive, did the president and first lady test positive, we now have an answer for you tonight. i should note one source in the white house says hicks is often somebody who of all the staffers does wear a mask, at times more, like in the oval office. they describe her as one of the more cautious people inside the west wing. the images of hicks where she's walking out to "air force one," she has not been masked. that's something coming into play as we move forward what white house staffers need do. they will continue to keep testing, keep up social distancing. the focus is doing the work of the american people. you referenced that, ali. dr. conley said the president will continue to work without

disruption. there will be disruptions. his travel, for example, has already changed. he's a part of those seniors who has covid, a positive test for covid. at this point, there are going to have to be some changes as to how you do the work for the american people. these are all the threads we're following tonight, ali. there's a lot. >> lots of threats. let me ask you two specific questions. the vice president and joe biden, these are two important people at the time. i have heard at the white house they have sophisticated contact tracing for anyone who ends up with coronavirus. what do we know, and maybe we know nothing. this is thursday night. on tuesday night, the president was in proximity, talking in a

loud voice near joe biden. i don't know if they got any closer than they looked to be on the screen, and that might be enough space. what do we know about that, and what do we know about the last time the president was near the vice president. i found it strange that that hasn't been mentioned, what's going on. with these two men, what have you been able to piece together? >> i'm going to get on my phone. i have some notes. let me start with joe biden. let me check my email to make sure we haven't gotten anything from the bind team. nothing from biden yet. i was in the hall for that debate. i did not see them come closer than the podiums they were on. there was a point at the end of the debate when dr. jill biden came up and the first lady as well, but the two candidates stayed on sort of either end of the stage when you talk about social distancing. what we've also heard is social distancing is one piece of the

puzzle and not the only piece of the puzzle. people were mostly wearing masks, although as we noted -- obviously the candidates were not allowed to wear masks. it's a campaign that has been extremely cautious with coronavirus cautions. only recently have they put the president out to do some travel. he did that whistle top. but the campaign overall tried to -- the biden campaign tried to stay away from things that were potentially risky. only today did they start up again. they had been doing -- and i'd been talking to a campaign adviser. before this news broke, they had been doing virtual corn ve

conversations. that's sort of the biden campaign siechld on the vice president's side, the two of them had -- we know the vice president was at the white house earlier this week for a coronavirus task force meeting. what we don't know is if the president popped in. the vice president was on the road. he was out in iowa. he returned back to washington right around the time the president was getting ready go on sean hannity to say we have been tested, we'll see what happens, and he was talking to hope hicks, announcing he had covid. that's where the president is now. he is home, and you saw him tweeting. at this point, there's a question of what duties does he now take on if anything that's different versus what the president would have done, whether the vice president still feels comfortable traveling, whether that's something he's going to do. of course, that debate with kamala harris is expected to happen wednesday in salt lake city. i wish i had more fulsome

answers for you on this. i want to be careful with the facts we know and what we can back up on reporting, and what we're working on. >> it's important to stick to the facts. hallie, give us a wave if you have more information, i'll come right back to you. joining us now is dr. vin gupta. he's a pulmonologist and affiliate assistant professor with the university of washington's department of health metrics sciences. remember a lot of the information and tallies that we're getting having to do with the coronavirus come from where dr. gupta is. dr. gupta, you've been with us for a few hours. you've had a chance to digest the information, the news that the president who has flouted the rules about these things, mimicked them as recently as tuesday night on the debate stage, has now got the

coronavirus. he's m ee's one of handful of w leaders who has now come down with it. what do you make of it? >> good to see you. first of all, i hope he, the first lady, hope hicks, and anyone else in their orbit remains healthy. it sounds like for now the president and first lady are asymptomatic. i hope that continues to be the case. they are our president and first lady. it would be interesting to know what hope hicks is thinking right now. what does that mean? it's important. we think -- i mean there's still so much uncertainty. we've been having conversations since march -- about who is more infectious long after exposure as opposed to being asymptomatic. is there a huge gap in terms of infection. if somebody has a fever, a

cough, a low oxygen sat, for example, what is she feeling? this is where i would say this is really vital. let's forget what's happened for the last eight months if we can, just for the moment right now. it would be great if the white house could overshare information on what's happening with hope hicks. when did she develop symptoms truly? because here's the thing, ali. if she developed symptoms wednesday morning, it doesn't mean she was infectious tuesday evening. there's that preinfection stage where you can still be spreading the virus. we talk about the transmission in younger person. she might have been that person. tuesday night was the debate. the president was with the vice president in cleveland. this is huge, potentially enormous in terms of the people exposed, the people that need to be vigilant, including vice president's camp. that's number one. number two, everybody on "air force one" needs to be contact

traced, needs to go into immediate quarantine for a period of time regardless of what their initial tests shows. even if they show negative, they need go into quarantine. as we know, false negatives happen all the time. number three, it's just sad to see that this happened. again, i'm glad to see that the president and first lady are healthy at the moment. let's hope it stays that way. but they shouldn't -- their better angels should have kicked in here. they should not have had any types of public events or private events where people were exposed. not a secret anymore, when they congregate, publicly or privately, they flout rules on masking and distancing. also for the benefit of their own health and their family's own health, they need go into

contact tracing mode and quarantining for some time. the cdc recommends high-risk exposures, even if you have a negative test -- in the president's case, it doesn't matter. he needs do 14 days. but say a handful of them turned out negative, they had a negative test. it doesn't mean they're clear. they need to still go into quarantining for 10 to 14 days per the cdc guidelines. i hope they take that seriously. >> i want to be clear. someone who was exposed to hope hicks may test positive like the president did within a couple of days of exposure. someone might not test positive until day 12, day 13 of exposure. is it possible? >> it certainly is possible. the incubation period is 10 to 14 days. >> you're not out of the woods if you get a negative test when someone else was on the same

plane, trip, or proximity with you that got a positive result. it may mean multiple tests or a test at the end or quarantine for 14 days and no test, but at that point you didn't develop coronavirus. >> i mean if we're going by the book, ali, this is what i would say. this is a high-risk exposure in a closed environment. everybody on that flight, 14 days quarantine regardless of what the tests show because they're the incumbent administration and everything matters. if they do that, that would send a powerful message. >> all right. dr. gupta, thank you for the time you've spent with us tonight. we appreciate the work you're doing with us and the work the university of washington is doing. stand by. joining me now, congressman eric swalwell. congressman swalwell, thank you

for being with us. there are things other than the president's immediate health, and we're hopeful the president and first lady and hope hicks do not suffer from this illness, but there are national security matters and governance matters. we got a tweet from vice president pence where he says karen and i send our dear friends, president trump trump and flotus melania trump. god bless you, president trump and first lady melania. no conversation about him, we don't know what the situation is about joe biden. this is more than the president of the united states getting coronavirus. this is a highly infectious disease that has now made its way to the top levels of our government. >> ali, it's an avoidable national security crisis we're in right now. i hope the president and first

lady are okay. i hope the vice president did not contract this. and i certainly hope that joe biden who stood on the stage for 90 minutes near the president is negative when he tested. we have a temporary line of succession. hopefully it doesn't come to that. we voentd the house floor for further h.e.r.o.e.s. act, covid relief. i think how is it that seven months after the national emergency was dedeclared that the leader of the free world has contracted that? it can only mean we have ulte y utterly failed the test. even boris jornhns, bolsonaro i brazil have tested. everyone who has the best doctors in the world have proven

anyone can get it. that's what's so disturbing. >> part of the issue here is it all depends on what happens, but these things get politicized very quickly, and there's some concern that while we hope the president does not suffer any symptoms, hopefully he's asymptomatic, but if he is and gets out quickly, that this becomes yet another reason to downplay coronavirus. >> that's right. that would be the worst lesson to take from this. i spoke to a friend earlier this evening younger than i am in his mid-30s who was out for about a month from coronavirus. so it really is punishing. it's unforgiving. it draws no distinction between republicans and democrats. i don't want to see the president see his symptoms get worse, but this should be a wakeup call for all of us to get serious, and maybe it will provoke the president and his team to come to the table so we can get the relief package

passed. >> that's what i was going to ask you because the house passed the h.e.r.o.e.s. act. we don't know where this goes in the senate. we feel that in the senate particularly now as it's preoccupied with the supreme court confirmation process, senate republicans do not seem to be taking additional aid seriously. we've seen tens of thousands of airline workers laid off this week. it seems the treasury secretary has been talking to nancy pelosi about this and there's some seriousness to this. americans with coronavirus or americans suffering because of coronavirus have been forgotten and left behind at this point. >> 7,000,001 have it. it's time to step back. we're going into the cold and flu season. temperatures are dropping.

we're going to be spending more time indoors. the best thing we can do is bring more safety. i hope we can leave washington before the end of this week with a deal. >> congressman, good to see you. thank you for joining me. congressman eric swalwell of california. thank you, sir. i want to bring backer win redlener. he's a doctor with the university. he's been talking about this with me for many months. there were serious public health concerns on tuesday on that debate stage when people were talking about the trump associates not wearing masks. they were undermining the public health experts, touting a vaccine that will be ready

within weeks, he said. that's not science, and now the president trump of t president of the united states has become one of handful of world leaders who's contracted the infection. what does that add up to? >> this is an incredible moment. you and i have talked a lot about it, ali. when you think about the interviews, recordings that bob woodward conducted with the president where the president said this was a horrible pandemic and there was going to be a lot of trouble. then he would talk about everything was under control and so on. the problem now is his words are coming back to haunt him in very strange ways and they're in

cont cont contradistinction to his campaign speeches. we wish the president well. but he's created a massive problem that has resulted in 208,000 deaths in the united states. half of them were probably preventible if we've been getting the straight scoop and information from the white ho e house. now it's a big mess, a national security threat, and it's a real threat to the lives and well being of the uncountable numbers of people he's been in contact with. don't forget, we've recently been talking about aerosol spread of the virus, meaning it may go much farther than six feet. i definitely would say vice president is also at risk as is

his staff as well. so the amount of testing and quarantining that's going to have to happen is massive. by the way, i also think, ali, as strange as the 2020 presidential campaigns have been to date, it's about to get a whole lot stranger. we're basically done with the 2020 campaign, and we're now going to be looking -- i don't know. can they even have another debate? i certainly wouldn't recommend it and certainly not on the same stage. maybe we'll have a zoom platform or something like that to have some sort of discussion, which would be a whole new innovation in terms of presidential debates. everything changes as of a few hours ago when the announcement was made. >> viewers will be hearing criticism on the president's customs, but we want to be clear to hoch hicks, melania trump and

president trump, we are wishing you a speedy recovery and no symptoms. we know hope has some. hopefully they're mild. we don't know if the president or melania trump have any symptoms. we certainly hope they don't and that they make a true recovery. that said, president trump becomes one of a handful of world leaders who has contracted the disease. you have boris johnson in the united kingdom, bolsonaro in brazil, they're leaders who have not taken the virus seriously. america has got 7.2 million cases of coronavirus. we've had in excess of 200,000 deaths. 45,000 new cases. we're still hovering in the neighborhood of 750 to 1,000 deaths a day. this is a moment, irwin, if used

properly could be teachable, could change the horrible trajectory this country has been on for the last six months. >> yes, ali. and that has to be acknowledged by the president and the vice president. they have to bring back their task force and let the doctors and experts speak, and they have to be undeterred in talking about what the right messages are. it's very simple. it's the same as it has been for months, which this is a serious disease. i think there needs to be some contrition on the part of the president and the vice president, but they now have to become the nation's most effective advocates for appropriate public health measures. keeping the distance, the face masks on at all times, and hand hygiene, this is all we have. we don't have medicines to stop the progression of the disease,

with don't hathe fact that we de a vaccine. we hope they get better, but they'll also become the biggest advocates for the appropriate public health step wes need to take to keep us all safe. all of his supporters as well. that may be our best shot, ali, of bringing this administrator pandemic under control. >> no opportunity like this to become an evangelist about this. you can change your own view about it. dr. irwin redlener of university of columbia. we'll be talking later. the latest news, president and melania trump have tested for the coronavirus. the president tweeted, tonight the first lady and i have tested positive for the coronavirus. we will get through this

together. dr. sean conley tweeted in part, the president and first lady are both well and they plan to remain at home. late thursday it was reported one of president trump's top aids hope hicks seen there in the beige coat, the fawn coat, hope hicks was among a group of staffers as you can see who traveled with trump to the presidential debate tuesday in cleveland, ohio. she also traveled with the president to a rally in duluth, minnesota, on wednesday. after donald trump tested positive, mike pence tweeted, karen and i senn our love and prayers to president trump and melania trump. we pray for their full and swift recovery. god bless you prch and our wonderful first lady melania. we do not know if mike pence or

karen pence have been tested for the coronavirus in light of the president's results. joining us now, shannon pettypiece, senior white house reporter. she's been on the story. now that we do, the world has changed, shannon, the world in which you thought the president might be exposed because one of his aides was is a very different world than one ta the president of the united states, 74 years old and overweight does have the coronavirus. what happens now? >> so many implications to this, ali. first and foremost is the president's health. we certainly know that he is in that high-risk group that he talks about. he was scheduled on friday to have a phone call to discuss at risk seniors, at risk for the coronavirus, and now he himself is in that category.

first and foremost there's concern for his health. second, the vice president. we have been waiting all night and we've called everyone in his orbit to try to find out where is the vice president and what is his health status. it doesn't appear and he's not indicating he was someone in close contact with the president in recent days or hope hicks, we still do not know how hope hicks was infected, and is it possible there is someone else in the west wing and who this virus has been spread about by, who might be going around as an asymptomatic carrier and whether the vice president had any exposure. that remains the question around the country.

>> let me ask you about that. >> you wonder what comes next. >> you heard the president saying, you know, when you're around these military, law enforcement people, everyone wants to hug, which, again, is absent the way we would contact trace. i would assume the white house has better contact tracing than that, that we should be able to establish within the next 12 hours or so, they should be able to, who hope hicks was in contact with, how she may have contracted this. >> i mean that's what makes this virus so tricky though. everybody in the west wing is not tested every day. the people who come in contact with the president are tested every day if they're in direct contact with him. but we know these tests aren't 100%. but there are hundreds of people who work in the complex and then outside of the white house

complex who work on "air force one" and "marine one" and are at the rallies and events that the president comes in contact with. again f you're in direct contact, you're tested. it might be impossible to find out where this came from. the white house says now it's doing this contact tracing and going back and retracing its steps, but the universe of people is so huge in terms of how many people have been traveling and how many people have been in his orbit, ali. >> this is not the normal contained world that it's been at the white house precampaign where you could sort of take some measure who's there on a day by basis. shannon, thank you. we'll be talking with you later this evening. i want to keep you focused. market shares have turned sharp. the dow would be 550 points

lower. same on the s&p 500. that would be about 125 points on the dow. it's early yet. the stockmarket won't be open for another seven hours or so. joining us now, david plouffe, former seen your adviser for president obama. he's an msnbc political analyst. david, we're trying to find out brass tacks here, who might be infected. for some reason we've asked a direct question and they've not answered us, about whether the vice president has tested, is asymptomatic, or has been exposed to the president. we don't know from the biden campaign either what's going on. they were in close proximity on tuesday. they were distant, didn't shake hands, but they were in close proximity. the problem is this is a big,

big deal at this stage in the campaign. >> it's a big deal in the campaign and globally. first of all, let's talk about the senior having worked in the white house and being on "air force one." the west wing is not like it shows on the tv show. the hallways are very narrow. even in the oval office, he has 10 or 15 people. sometimes 15, 18. "marine one," it's a small space. it's loud. you have to speak loud. aerosol. you don't have seatbelts on, you're walking around the whole time. you're in the president's office. he might be in the conference room. these are all indoor spaces. there's no social distancing, quite frankly, that's possible. wearing a mask wasn't procedure, so it's very scary. we have the vice presidential debate next week.

will that happen? there have been modifications. the president could still be quarantined. do the debates slip? do they become zoom affairs? i would imagine in-person campaigning is going to be very hard after the president has contracted the coronavirus to go out and do these super events. it would be malpractice, much less health malpractice. we don't know. 2020 continues not to disappoint in terms of surprises. >> so what do you think? we haven't heard from vice president biden at the moment unless i have missed something in the last few minutes. what does biden's response to this look like? >> first like everyone in america, he wishes the president and first lady and anyone inf t infected a full recovery. they're going to have to say has he been tested, what were the results of that, what were the procedures at the debate. as far as we know, they didn't get close to the podium.

they're going to have to answer a lot of questions. he could be the next president. there's global interest in this. i think mike pence is going to have to answer a lot more information about his whereabouts in the last 24 to 48 hours. we're going to have to learn the protocols of the staff. in the next 12 hours, i think whether you're the biden campaign, president's office, the white house will offer a lot more information, we all deserve it. he is still our president. these are the people supporting him. if something unfortunately were to go south in terms of the president's health, mike pence becomes even more important in the story. there's a lot more information we're going to need and deserve in the next 12 hours. >> donald trump doesn't always act like a president to all americans, but the fact is he is the president of all americans when it comes to national security and governance when it comes to situations like this.

on tuesday he said, for example, everyone has had a test, you have social distancing and all the things you have. i wear a mask. you need it. we know he hasn't worn it. but there are places where he's touring and he has to put a mask on. he was mocking joe biden for wearing a machlk he said, he's not going anywhere, he's 20 feet away, and he wears a mask. this has become a political issue in this country. is there some chance that by donald trump who's an anti-masker, getting coronavirus, that nonsense can stop? >> well, let's hope so. i mean, obviously there's been gross mismanagement of the government. as far as messaging, we're probably at a third of the country who has not taken it seriously because their president who they support above

all else says i don't really wear a mask, social distancing is silly, i want to do big crowd events, everything is opening up. schools are opening up, sporting events. yes, listen. we're not going to get out of this situation unless you have close to universal sound practices in terms of mask wearing and hygiene and social distancing, and above all else, just taking it seriously. so whatever the mistakes the government has made -- and allot were made, downplaying it from the very beginning -- we continue this deep into it where we're almost seven months from where it got serious in this country. we still have a healthy percentage of the country in their daily lives not taking it seriously. and the biggest politics we have in the world is the debate stage. and what we heard the other night is dismissiveness and mocking joe biden, calling it

the biggest mask i've ever seen. that has to stop. >> biggest mask you've ever seen, actually covers his face so he doesn't spread germs. february 8, 2020, president trump called the coronavirus a hoax. thank you, david plouffe. the president now has the coronavirus. president trump and melania trump have tested positive after hope hicks tested positive. we're going to take a quick break. msnbc continues on the other side. eak. msnbc continues on the other side

joining us now, yamiche alcindor, correspondent for pbs news and a msnbc political analyst. yamiche, pictures from tuesday night, this is after the debate you see president trump, melania trump, you see karen pence and -- i'm sorry, you see jill biden and joe biden not coming near each other on the stage. let me ask you this, yamiche, vice president pence has tweeted

his good wishes for the president and melania trump. and we share those good wishes. we hope they are asymptomatic or don't suffer from this. he didn't tell us whether he's been tested or not. >> that is one of the biggest questions now really that is part of this incredible scenario where the president of the united states has tested positive as a senior citizen at 74 for this virus. i've been reaching out to the vice president's office. i know that you have reporters at nbc news and msnbc who have been doing the same. it's just not clear whether the vice president who, of course, works often closely to the president, whether or not his status for the coronavirus is known. it's going to be clear that he's going to have to likely be tested. he is, of course, the next person in line, if anything even gets hairy with president trump in terms of this virus. we've said it before and i think it's important to point it out again that the president is in a high-risk category, and

according to the cdc guidelines, he should be quarantining for at least 14 days. so this really -- even though the white house doctor says this not going to disrupt this schedule this, of course, is going to disrupt his schedule. he's already cancelled a trip to florida and is now going to be hosting this call. but to your question, in the united states right now, we're now looking at who's next in line and what are the people who are next in line, how are their health? and what we don't know, the big question that we don't have right now, the answer that we don't have is what is the vice president's status? >> yamiche, there is the irony of this because one never wants to take any pleasure in the misfortune of others, the illness of others, and the danger of this remarkable serious disease that has killed more than 200,000 americans, but there are those who are hoping that this is an opportunity for president trump to change his views on the public health advice around masking and social distancing. something that he mocked as

recently as tuesday, including mocking vice president joe biden about wearing a mask. he called it the biggest mask he's ever seen. he says this guy puts his mask on, even if nobody's around. you're an expert at this. do you see any sense that things might change and that they might -- might embrace a more logical approach to coronavirus? >> well, i think this is uncharted territory. the president, of course, said that there was going to be a miracle that did away with this virus. he's been trying to put the virus and this pandemic in the rear view mirror, saying that essentially the united states is getting through this. and now he, himself, has to contend with the fact that as the president of the united states he could not protect himself from getting this virus. that's a remarkable statement. the president has been saying that he's going to keep americans safe and now at this point he hasn't been able to keep himself safe, and that underscores how this virus is really infecting and touching americans across socioeconomic lines, across -- across gender and racial lines.

the fact that the president has all of these resources, is essentially the most protected american in the country, the fact that the virus could infect him, it really upends the president's argument that this virus is something that maybe is going to be going away and not to be taken too seriously. it's, again, in some ways, it's really hard to tell whether or not the president is going to change his tone because just in the few minutes that this has been breaking, i've been talking to some political strategists and there are two people. there are the people who think the president could look at this and take this more seriously and say, look, i didn't understand how serious this virus was. now i've had it. i know what it does to people's body. or on the other hand, i was asymptomatic, this isn't as serious as people were saying it's going to be, and people have been saying much to do about nothing. the president could say i've had this virus and people shouldn't be scared. there, of course, is the other opportunity that he could as a senior citizen say, i did not understand how serious this virus was, and now me and my wife have suffered because of it.

>> yeah. yeah, i mean, i -- i might grow a full head of hair before that happens, but i suppose we should always keep our minds open to possibilities. yamiche alcindor, pbs "newshour" host and msnbc contributor. joining me again, dr. irwin redlener, an msnbc public health analyst. dr. redlener, we're just looking, my colleague ayman mohideen has put out a list of people who may have been in contact with hope hicks during the 48 hours during which she may have been active with this illness and not been in quarantine. we're looking at mark meadows, the chief of staff, first lady melania trump, we know she's got coronavirus, representative jim jordan, alice marie johnson, robert o'brien, national security, rudy giuliani, ivanka trump, donald trump jr. kimberly guilfoyle. a lot of these people are family members and close associates of

trump. a lot of these people are members of government. if this has spread around that group of people, there are a lot of issues of disaster and the kind of ways in which you deal with this kind of thing. this seems careless, but it could be very dangerous. >> could be really dangerous, ali, and all these people have families and other connections and they have staff. >> that's right. >> and i think the network of people who are possibly infected and carrying this virus are just -- it's almost unlimited to -- how we look at it. but hope hicks may be actually a superspreader. walking around in close proximity while she was sick. if she had symptoms yesterday or the day before yesterday and has tested positive for that, she could have for the last two weeks before that been actually

infected and asymptomatic but able to spread the coronavirus. so the network that are going to have to be identified and contact traced, as we say, and tested is vast. and i think, as i said earlier, that since we don't actually know how far the coronavirus can spread from somebody who is infected, i do worry about people who are more than six feet away from them. there's a lot of people within the six-foot perimeter, but even on the debate stage with the distance between the president and former vice president biden, we still could have had transmission of an aerosolized virus if the president was actually infected during the debate. so there's no end to the problems here. but the other thing i think to keep in mind is that this campaign in terms of campaigns as we know them is essentially over. we'll still have the election, but almost all of the usual trappings and meetings and visits and debating that would typically be happening in guy gear right now are going to have to go on hold, ali.

>> there was some recommendation that came out from the white house that the people who have been in close contact get themselves tested and consider quarantine. i find that fascinating it's a recommendation because the point you just made is interesting. we don't know whether when hope hicks infected the president, and we are assuming that's the connection, i guess it's possible that the president got the infection somewhere else, but let's say that's the case. we don't know whether hope hicks was on day one of being contiguous or day 14 of being contagious. >> exactly right, ali. and there's plenty of people who are walking around who have -- who actually have the coronavirus and are not symptomatic because between -- between the time it -- you contact and get infected and the time you actually start showing symptoms of the infection, it could be anywhere from a couple of days to two weeks. so we have a vast window in there where everybody that she was in contact with and their families are going to have to be

talked to and they're going to have to get tested. i mean, this is the challenge of, you know, identifying and tracing contacts. that we're struggling with all over the country. and now that's come home to the white house. and it's -- it's going to be a big, complicated public health challenge for the foreseeable future, ali. >> this was already a big, complicated public health challenge. complicated by this white house and by this president. who now has to contend with this. and we wish him well. despite the degree to which he complicated the public health response, we wish the president well and we hope that he does not suffer any consequences about symptoms of this illness. thank you, irwin. good to see you again. >> of course. >> shannon pettypiece with us again, nbc news senior white house reporter. shannon, what have you got? >> well, i mean, just to bring you up on the timeline, as dr. redlener was talking about trying to trace how big this was, you know, to emphasize we still don't know how hope hicks

was infected. and i would recall everybody back to september 17th when the white house sort of let slip to reporters that there was a positive case in the white house. back in -- on september 17th. you know, they had mentioned it to reporters. the president ended up confirming it. we did not get any details on who the person was. the president said it wasn't someone in close contact with him, but this virus could have been circulating around the white house for that long a period of time because the white house has not indicated how hope hicks was infected. so that's going to make tracking this all difficult. to this point, obviously, we have the president's health at risk. there is the question about the entire senior staff. you keep putting that list up on the screen of all of the people in the president's orbit who may not only be infected and have to quarantine, but whose health may be at serious risk now as we try to continue on with the running of the country.

and there's the people who could have come in contact with the president and other top aides in the past 24 hours between when hope hicks started experiencing symptoms, which we were told was last night, and then this morning when she tested positive, our reporting indicates, the press secretary held a briefing around 11:30 that day. the president traveled to a fund-raiser at bedminster late in the afternoon, came back to the white house, and i will say that the only reason this information first got out about hope hicks being infected and we started asking these questions was because of the reporting of my old colleague jennifer jacobs at bloomberg who first started reporting this story at 8:30 tonight. the white house at that point had not said anything on the record. >> but they knew. and they knew. that's the interesting part. when kayleigh mcenany gave her press briefing today, the white

house knew and the president, who had been exposed to hope hicks, went to a fund-raiser tonight in new jersey. >> right. yeah, exactly. that is exactly the timeline. and it was only after this f became public, and then the president was asked about it on sean hannity and confirmed it that we got a public admission from the white house that the president was infected and there were coronavirus cases going on. we don't even really know when the president was actually tested and when the president found out that he was infected. we don't know that exact timeline, ali. >> what do we know about the vice president? we know he tweeted good wishes. do we know anything about his condition, whether he's been tested or is symptomatic? >> no, we don't, and, of course, yamiche has been hounding his office all night. i know we have at nbc news. we have not seen the two of them together publicly in a few days. however, the president and the vice president do a little bit

of pop-in back and forth. a lot of times the vice president will pop into the president's office. they'll have a quick meeting, an exchange here and there. we have not gotten an answer about when the last time was that the president was in contact with the vice president. we do not know when the vice president was in close contact with hope hicks. and, again, to this broader point, we don't know who else may be asymptomatic in the white house compound, in the west wing, who is spreading this, who could have also spread to the vice president. and very notable that they are not saying either one way or another that the vice president has not been identified as close contact based on their contact tracing and does not need a test or just saying whether or not the vice president's going to get tested. that seems like a simple thing that could be done at this point. >> yep. shannon, thank you for your excellent reporting tonight. we'll be getting more of it over the course of the next few hours. and as it comes up on 3:00 a.m. in the east and midnight out west, once again, the breaking news of the night, president trump and first lady melania trump have tested positive for the coronavirus. the news has completely upended the presidential election in

ways that we are still sorting through at this hour. and our coverage of this developing story continues right now here on msnbc. good morning and welcome to "way too early" on this friday, october 2nd, and we have to start with breaking news. the president announced on twitter just before 1:00 this morning that he and the first lady tested positive for covid-19 last night. he posted, quote, we will begin our quarantine and recovery process immediately. we will get through this together. the first lady tweeted in part, we are feeling good, and i have postponed all upcoming engageme engagements. we know the president traveled to bedminster yesterday for a fund-raiser.