hi there, everyone. it's 4:00 in the east. we're following today's breaking news. news heard around the world that the president of the united states has tested positive for coronavirus along with first lady melania trump. they are in isolation in the white house residence experiencing mild symptoms, according to top aides. we have yet to see the president or to hear from him directly since the news was announced on his twitter feed a little after 1:00 in the morning eastern time last night. and though the white house is saying that trump is, quote, in good spirits and working, business as usual, he did not participate in the one event that was on his public schedule today. it was an afternoon coronavirus briefing call. nbc news is reporting that donald trump asked vice

president mike pence to lead that call in his place. "new york times" reports this morning, quote, the president has had what one person familiar with the situation described as coldlike symptoms. at a fundraiser he attended at his golf club at bedminster, new jersey othursday, where one attendee said the president came in contact with about 100 people, he seemed lethargic. the president's age and underlying conditions, clinical obesity and high cholesterol, put him in a high risk category for a more severe response and reaction to the disease. and we stress again that the white house is still describing the president's condition and symptoms as mild. this is the most serious known health risk to face a sitting president in decades. vice president pence importantly has tested negative for coronavirus. he and president trump will remain separated and are working to keep their staff separated as well. as we learn more about the long list of people with whom donald

trump has come into contact with in recent days. two more people have already tested positive. two people who attended saturday's nomination ceremony of judge amy coney barrett to the supreme court. they include republican senator mike lee and notre dame president, father john jenkins. joe biden, who appeared on a debate stage with donald trump on tuesday has retested himself. he's tested negative, as has his wife. biden is scheduled to deliver remarks later in this hour. we'll bring them to you, as well as any other updates in this rapidly developing outbreak in the nation's capital at the highest levels of our government. we begin with an update on the president's condition. "washington post" bureau chief and msnbc political analyst phil rucker is here. nbc news white house correspondent carol lee joins us. also msnbc medical contributor dr. nahid bhadelia, the director of special pathogens at boston medical center. phil rucker and carol, i want to

start with both of you. phil, what do we know about how frequently the president is in contact with his staff. how recent are the most recent updates that his symptoms remain mild? >> well, nicolle, we don't have any update beyond what mark meadows told reporters several hours ago this morning about the president's mild symptoms. our reporting shows that the president has been in touch with some staffers, some advisers and friends this morning by phone. i'm not sure if he has seen any staff in person. certainly a number of his aides reported to work at the white house and are at the white house today. we should point out that it is now 4:00 in the afternoon on friday, and we have notice detailed information about the president's health condition. there has been no public briefing by his doctor. there has been no public briefing by any members of his staff to provide in detail what those symptoms are, what his temperature might be, any

development beyond the note we got from his physician overnight that said he had tested positive for the coronavirus. >> it's such an important point, not just here in this country but around the world. the health of an american president is international news. carol lee, can you add to phil's reporting on the latest understanding we have of the current president's health? >> yeah, well, one of the things we know and i'm just getting this through is that three sources tell nbc news that the president has a low grade fever. so that kind of gives you a sense of his condition, at least a little window into it. as phil mentioned, we have not gotten any official update from the white house since the president's physician letter. we also know that his voice has been described to us by sources as raspy. that's something that could also just be from the number of rallies and events he's been doing over the past week.

you but, you know, the president obviously has not been seen today. we also know from talking to people in and around the white house that there has been some discussion about whether or not he should come out and make an appearance. there are some who think that that would be a good idea. but he hasn't. we can't speculate about why he hasn't because we don't have any official information from his doctor beyond what we got last night, but we are told from three sources that he has a low-grade fever and we're just standing by to hopefully learn more as the white house -- as this unfolds. >> and for any of our viewers, phil rucker, that don't live on twitter and follow white house news the way we, do just talk about how this story broke open with first the revelation that hope hicks, a very close communications adviser to donald trump had tested positive, was symptomatic, had isolated on board air force one and the story really accelerated after

that with news a few hours later that the president and melania were positive. in between the hicks diagnosis and the trump diagnosis, there was a hannity appearance where he left it sort of up in the air about his status. just talk about how this story broke open late last night, phil. >> sure. it's important to keep the timeline in perspective here. hope hicks, the counselor to the president, one of his closest aides, started to feel sick on the trip wednesday to minnesota. the public did not learn that she had felt sick and showed symptoms of the coronavirus until about 24 hours later on thursday. at some point thursday morning she tested positive and was no longer on the grounds of the white house. but again, the white house did not disclose that information until the end of the day thursday when jennifer jacobs, a reporter from bloomberg news, reported that hicks had tested positive. it was only then that the white house press spokespeople were willing to confirm that she, in

fact, had the coronavirus and that this outbreak was there at the white house. and within a matter of hours, a series of dominos started to fall. you had the president go on sean hannity -- call into sean hannity. we didn't see him in person, but he called in to sean hannity's show and said he was awaiting results from his test. those results were announced a little bit after 1:00 a.m. overnight. and now we know he has coronavirus and is isolating inside the white house. one important thing happened, by the way, yesterday. and that was the president's trip to bedminster, new jersey. he boarded marine one. he flew to new jersey for an indoor campaign fundraiser where he mingled with dozens of supporters. none, if any of them, wore masks, according to the reporting there. and this is all with knowledge that hope hicks had tested positive and that he had been exposed to the coronavirus. the president didn't have his results at that time, but he knew that the virus could have

potentially reached him, and he continued on with that travel. >> i want to stay on this timeline with you, carol. so we know that the president of notre dame who was at the ceremony on saturday tested positive. we know that hope hicks was symptomatic and ill wednesday. you look at all of the people, and we just had footage up of hope hicks boarding air force one with jared kushner and many other members of the senior white house staff. there were images of the family and other staff at the debate tuesday night. i mean, they are all together. they are not at all distanced. and they are all maskless all the time. these are not ventilated spaces on board marine one and on board air force one. what were they thinking? >> well, nicolle, i'd even add, and you know this having worked there, the white house is not a very large, spacious place. i mean, the rooms are small.

the offices are small. the hallways are small. and i've spent a lot of time over there over the last couple of month ofs. you're right. there are no -- no one is wearing masks. there is not social distancing. but it's not just there. it's also when the president goes out on the road, whether it's his rallies if you look at that event on saturday in the rose garden, there's all the chairs are together. it was outdoors, but the people are next to each other. there's not social distancing. there's not masks. and i was told that there were two events before -- receptions before, private events before that one. larger event on saturday where there were indoors and there wasn't any social distancing or masks at those events. the president met with evangelical leaders, for instance. that was one of those receptions. and this has just been a constant theme. i was with the president at a rally in ohio not that long ago and the lieutenant governor stood up there and was booed, encouraging people to wear

masks. this is a republican. someone who is involved in the president's campaign. >> republican, right. >> so we've seen this over and over again and that's just the tone that they've set. now an interesting thing is that today we have seen more -- the images coming out of the white house, you see more officials in masks at least some, not all. >> you know, let me -- speaking of maskless white house advisers. let me show white house chief of staff who, other than the president is the most senior official on that 18-acre complex. a role model if he chooses to be. here he is, mark meadows briefing the press this morning without a mask. >> in terms of hope, hope hicks, we discovered that right as the marine one was taking off yesterday. we actually pulled some of the people that had been traveling and in close contact. the reason why it was reported out just frankly is that we had already started the contact

tracing just prior to that event. as you know last night, even in the early hours of this morning, the minute we got a confirmatory test on the president we felt it was important to get the news out there. >> so dr. bhadelia, my question is twofold. what, from a medical perspective, do you understand to be the president's condition, and what should -- what would you imagine, what kind of care would you imagine he and the first lady are getting right now. and second, if you can just pick up this thread of the conduct that these infections, including infections of our president and first lady, the workplace there is not one that models any of the steps the cdc has recommended any of us take to protect ourselves. >> good afternoon. yeah, starting with the treatment part of it.

from my own experience, the course of the covid-19 patient, they're so variable. what the president, what we're hearing potentially with what the president is currently experiencing, pretty hallmark symptoms that are associated with covid-19. particularly early covid-19 with a low-grade fever, feeling run down, having a sore throat. it's likely that for most people, the symptoms remain pretty mild. and, you know, the patient recovers. the things that potentially put the president at high risk are his age and his obesity. the things that work in his advantage are that he got diagnosed pretty early. and he was presented probably one of the best centers of care. all the people around him that are potentially giving him the top of the line access and v vigilance to stay on top of the condition. the way this disease behaves is first the virus attacks and then

the immune system revs up and people tend to have a course that's lighter to begin with and then may turn around and have a potentially more severe course. and only time can tell. but what we're hoping, what i think might be reasonable, but it's hard to know, is that the doctors who are treating him, advising him, may have already been given him access to a drug like antiviral remdesivir. generally that's reserved for hospitalized patients who are moderately ill. if he's already symptomatic, there's this gray line. antivirals like remdesivir work when it's a little bit earlier in the course. and we generally reserve it for the hospitalized patients and it may have been something that was offered. same thing with the first lady. just picking up on your thread, though. to me, the fact that we're seeing this, the dominos fall, you're seeing basically the achilles heel of the white

house's strategy to keep our president and the rest of the administration safe has been a bit of overrelied on testing. testing is a pillar of how we move forward but it needs to be linked with a whole suit of mitigation strategy. and by feeling like you might be infallible because you've been tested and everybody else around you has been tested, it misses the point that sometimes tests don't pick up early infections or they can be false negatives and that's why the secondary layers of the masks, the secondary layers of keeping that distance become so important. i am just shocked about the continued public gatherings that we've seen and public interactions we've seen the people who were in contact with the positive patients continue to have with the general public. the events with the rally, the donor dinner. i worry that that's just expanding the potential cluster that we may see at the end of this. >> you know, phil rucker, can you pick that up?

chris christie was on "good morning america" with george stephanopoulos this morning. chris christie participated in debate prep and was at that ceremony on sunday. and he said to george stephanopoulos that no one was wearing a mask inside the poorly ventilated, tight but beautiful spaces inside the west wing of the white house. and alluded to the point dr. bhadelia just made that the testing really does make them feel a false sense of security, but just a negative test means no one has it, but -- >> carol, you have something? >> the president's doctor just put out a new statement, nicolle. if you want me to read it to you. it says that he received a single 8-gram dose of an

infusion essentially of an antibody cocktail. he completed the infusion without incident. it said in addition to that, the president has been taking zinc, vitamin d and other things and daily aspirin and says he remains fatigued but in good spirits, and he's being evaluated by a team of experts. it also said they are making recommendations for the president and first lady for next steps. in terms of the first lady, she has only a mild cough and headache and that the remainder of the first family remains well and has tested negative, nicolle. >> dr. bhadelia, pleat colet me you first. does that sound like standard treatment? >> no, i was wondering about that. we should let the folks know that the antibodies are another class of drugs still being evalua evaluated. people find the best, most targeted protein that a person who survived and then clone them and make a medication out of

that. that's what antibodies are. they are being looked at in two types of studies. one is for people who have been exposed to keep them from developing it. and others if you have mild outpatient symptoms, could this keep you from getting worse and possibly from needing hospitalization. so they put out a very small study a couple of days ago where they showed the antibody they had showed promising data. there's not enough clinical data on this drug. there's some safety data that's available and hasn't been tried out in large trials which is why i was hesitant to talk about it because it would be -- it's not fda approved. it's not an eua such as remdesivir. but it's a class of antibodies starting to look promising. and so i am not surprised that it was potentially deployed. >> dr. bhadelia, how much would

the president's willingness to push the envelope in terms of treatments? he's certainly in his public statements been a booster of unproven therapeutics, and we hope that only proven ones that are safe and effective are used on him. but how much input would a patient like the president have on his own course of treatment? >> well, your guess is as good as mine. it's a double-edged sword. if you ask for a lot of stuff and you're given it, particularly drugs that potentially don't have all the backing yet it may actually end up hurting you. and that's where we depend on the expertise of the physicians and scientists around him to be able to make that educated guess. we've actually -- they have been deployed in other viral diseases. they prove to be pretty successful in ebola. they reduced mortality the most. there just isn't enough data. so if an experimental drug on

any patient, a president or not, is being used, it needs to be used with extreme vigilance and close attention to ensure there are no adverse effects. >> phil rucker, of course, if you have anything to add to the president's course of treatment, we'd love to hear anything that the post is getting in, but i was asking about chris christie's interview this morning. he is one of the ones that was in the room with hope hicks on saturday and tuesday. as i said at the top, the president of notre dame was at the ceremony on saturday. he tested positive. hope hicks was part of debate prep. chris christie saw her. she's tested positive and, obviously, the president, the common denominator in both those events. he's tested positive as has the first lady.

but he said on "good morning america" that nobody wears masks inside the west wing and the testing does provide a false sense of security. are you hearing that and any anxietiy ies around that from y white house sources today? >> yes, and governor christie's exactly right. there has been this confidence throughout the white house, and carol knows it well being there, as have i, that because these staffers are getting tested every day, every morning with this abbott rapid testing machine that they somehow are immune or don't have to follow the sort of safety protocols that the cdc and other public health experts would advise, including wearing a mask, including social distancing. they effectively act like the before times. like everything is normal and because they've been tested that the coronavirus went puncture their safe space. that's generally the atmosphere and the attitude that we have seen inside the white house and certainly when the president is out on the road.

of course, that all, you know, there was an awakening this week because, obviously, the virus doesn't discriminate on whether you've been tested or not or where you work. and the tests are not always accurate. and one detail about the president's course of treatment, and this is from the exact same memorandum carol was just reading, to but it's a little more detail about the antibody cocktail that the doctor was referring to. the president's doctor says he received a single 8 gram dose of regeneron, polyclonal antibody. a single 8-gram dose and provided as a precautionary measure. >> it's just a purresurreal experience to talk about the president receiving intravenous treatments that, again, we have our political differences in this country. we have one of the most polarized, partisan moments we're living through but the health of an american president is of concern to everyone on the

planet. and just to be having this conversation about the health and the positive covid diagnosis of a president who from the beginning has publicly seemed to want to will this disease away, that he now has it is just a surreal state of -- for you especially, someone who goes to that building and covers it every day. was this just a moment that they never thought -- did they really think that this couldn't come to the doorstep of 1600 pennsylvania avenue, carol? >> well, i think that there was just generally the atmosphere was a sort of, as you've been talking about, this false sense of security. but there are people around the president, and i spoke to one of them today who was at the white house on saturday who said this was inevitable and this is the world we live in. and he lives in it, too. and, you know, frankly some people i spoke to today were surprised this hadn't happened

sooner. but in terms of the surrealness of it and the feeling about it, i think as the country, when you -- we're all still americans, and the american president being sick with a virus that, you know, has touched millions of people and killed hundreds of thousands in the united states is just really remarkable. even if you know intellectually that this is a possibility when you are sitting there walking around the white house and you're seeing how all of these guidelines that we're told to follow, and we do follow. we wear masks. the press wears masks at the white house. they're not being followed by the president and those around him. so even though there are some around the president who feel like this day was inevitable, it's still no less shocking, nicolle. >> let me, in that spirit, let me play olivia troye describing some of what you're talking about on that complex. here she is. >> i think there are still

people walking around the white house today who don't actually believe this virus is real. a lot of them disregard it. even though, as you've seen, we have got over 7 million cases and we've lost a lot of lives here, and we're still watching this globally happen across the world. everyone is trying to figure out how we get past this. >> phil rucker, i spoke to a close trump ally, and he raised the political implications of a president who has tested positive for a virus that he thought months ago he could will away, that it would miraculously disappear, one that he boasted about downplaying because he wanted to reassure people that having caught up with him, to use the word you used in your last answer, punctures the, you know, most generous explanation was he really was trying to will away something horrible. but i think most people think that he was in denial, that there was more he could have done to protect the country. he leads from a deadly pandemic,

that as olivia troye, as we've all said, has infected 7 million americans and taken from us more than 200,000 americans. if this punctures the big lie he's been trying to tell, phil. >> it definitely does, nicolle. and the president has been in denial of the coronavirus from the moment he learned about it in january. and as he acknowledged to bob woodward on tape, he intentionally downplayed this. more recently, he's been trying to convince the american people that the virus is going away. that the country is rounding the corner when it comes to the pandemic. that the brighter days are ahead, a vaccine is going to be here any moment and he's been trying to shift the national discussion to other topics that put him in a better political standing. talking about law and order. now the supreme court. trying to talk about the economy. as if the pandemic is not still raging coast to coast. but the data always show us that it is raging coast to coast. now it's raging right here in

washington at the white house. and the president, unfortunately, is a victim. he has contracted the virus and is now infected personally. i don't think any of us want to game out what this means politically, but it certainly throws a wrench into the argument that the president had been making on the campaign trail in recent weeks about the state of this virus. >> dr. bhadelia, there have been a lot of questions about just how transparent the president has been. both as a candidate and as president about his own health. mike schmidt reported in his book about a trip to walter reed when vice president pence was asked to be ready to take over responsibilities of the office. donald trump in response started tweeting about mini strokes which wasn't alleged in the book. dr. ronnie jackson gave a -- i was on the air, i think an hour and 20-minute report where he deemed donald trump the

healthiest specimen he'd ever seen and offered a figure for his weight that wasn't believable, even to life-long weight watchers members who are used to trying to will a number that isn't real. and i think dr. bornstein was the name of this doctor before he was president. he had some bizarre declarations about the president's health that just looking at him were clearly not true. do you have concerns about how honest they will be with us from this point forward? >> i do, nicolle. i heard michael beschloss say this earlier today that throughout u.s. history, oftentimes administrations have tried to play down the health of a president has always not been good for america when they do that. and i do hope there's transparency because, you know, in some ways, the nation needs to know. we need to know about what's going on simply to be -- both from a national security perspective, but to sort of -- for the population to get an understanding also of the severity of this disease.

and the differing courses you may have on this. here's one thing i hope happens. i wrote about this earlier this week. one of the main reasons we haven't been able to come together as a nation to defeat the pandemic and decrease the cases is the political divide. and if you have that political divide as you saw from "the new york times" study earlier this week is because you had the president sort of trying to paint this rosy picture and those that were following him didn't really think the pandemic was real, that it was going to go away. what i hope that we all come together behind the president for his full recovery and that also incites this understanding that when someone wiser than me has said that if you ignore it, it doesn't go away. and that's the pandemic. i hope that this is what unites us. i hope this is what brings us to a point where we drive the cases down as we stand at the verge of the fall and potentially a nationalized pandemic. >> you know, carol lee, dr. bhadelia is talking about a

cornell university study that came out early this week. it was reported on in "the new york times" and other places. but it found that the greater spreader of disinformation and misinformation about the pandemic is its latest victim, donald j. trump. i mean, he bears a lot of responsibility for his supporters not doing the sorts of things that he and his aides don't do to protect themselves, wearing masks, social distancing, not having mass gatherings. every single one of the events that were showcased in the republican convention, including for vice president pence, were potential superspreader events. there had been somebody like a sick hope hicks or donald trump at them, just talk about their responsibility and getting us to this point. not protecting themselves and, by extension, not protecting the country. >> well, i think you had the visuals that were coming out of the white house and then from the president and his realities and that in itself sends a message to the country. the president is not wearing

masks. the people around him aren't wearing masks. they're booing anyone who -- the idea of wearing masks. and then just on tuesday night, at the debate, you had the president in front of one of the largest audiences he's been in front of in a very long time, and really making fun of joe biden for wearing a mask and saying, you know, you've heard this before. the president and his campaign, they've mocked bien for the way he's approached the pandemic, hiding in his basement for always wearing a mask. and that sets a tone. and the tone was set very early on in the white house when the president was resistant and reluctant about masks. there was a big question about whether he'd wear one. whether he supported one when, at the time, that was where the medical advisers and experts were advising all of us and everyone to do and the white house and the president really resisted that and then obligatorily said you should

wear a mask but then undermined that and said they don't really work and if you have them, you're touching your face. there's just been this overarching message and when the president is speaking, really what he means, what we've heard from him and what we've seen from him because sometimes actions are louder than words, is that things like cdc guidelines and wearing masks don't matter. and that's just been the message from the start. and even his obligatory nods to the need to wear masks. we're just not as heartfelt as his -- as his rallies where no one had them on, and they were indoor and outdoor. and at a time when that's really something that no medical expert would advise. >> and just -- we're going to listen in to joe biden in one second. this is what he said. donald trump said, i wear masks when i needed to wear a mask. i don't wear masks like him every time you see him, he's got a mask. here he is, wearing his mask. vice president joe biden. let's listen.

>> sending my prayers for the health and safety of the first lady and the president of the united states after they tested positive for covid-19. my wife jill and i pray that they'll make a quick and full recovery. this is not a matter of politics. it's a bracing reminder to all of us that we have to take this virus seriously. it's not going away automatically. we have to do our part to be responsible. it means following the science. listening to the experts. washing our hands. social distancing. it means wearing a mask in public. it means encouraging others to do so as well. it means having masking mandates nationwide. the director of the cdc, centers for disease control, dr. redfield said, and i quote, he held up a mask. these face masks are the most important, powerful public health tool we have. then he held the mask up again

and said this face mask is more guaranteed to protect me against covid than a vaccine, end of quote. leading scientists from the university of washington tell us that we can save more than 100,000 american lives in the next 100 days alone if everyone wore a mask in public. so let me repeat that because it's so important. we can save 100,000 lives in the next 100 days according to the head of the cdc if everyone wears a mask in public. so be patriotic. it's not about being a tough guy. it's about doing your part. wearing a mask is not only going to protect you, but also protect those around you. your mom. your dad. your brother. your sister, husband, wife, neighbor, co-worker. don't just do it for yourself. do it for the people you love. people you work with.

the seriousness of this virus also underscores that we need regular testing with results turned around rapidly and that's available to everyone. it's not just the folks in the white house or who travel with me that deserve regular testing. it's folks in the meat-packing and food processing plants. grocery store workers. every single american deserves safety and peace of mind. and it means we need transparency. those who test positive need to participate in contact tracing so that everyone who they may have exposed can get tested themselves. that's how you stop transmission for any epidemic. it's basic. we need to take the science of fighting this disease seriously if we're going to save lives. and above all, the news is a reminder that we as a nation need to do better in dealing with this pandemic.

taking these steps is how we'll protect ourselves. and just as important is how we will protect one another. i hope that all those who are fighting this virus, including the first family, and so many americans today recover and recover soon. my prayers are with the families of the more than 200 -- i think it's 207,000 americans who have died from this virus. many of them got up this morning at the breakfast table with an empty chair of someone they lost and they loved. they understand. and there's more than 7 million americans who are now infected, have been infected. that includes folks here in grand rapids and all across michigan. especially all of you with ufcw who are on the front lines of this pandemic and on the front lines of this economic crisis.

the ufcw workers who have always been on the front lines of fighting for dignity and respect you deserve. i know it's been tough. this morning, september jobs report came out. the last one before election day. i'm grateful for all those who were able to get their jobs back to work again, but there's fewer jobs than we had hoped for. millions of families, millions are still wondering when it will be their turn to come back from the brink. and the signs, according to the national press, are not encouraging. once again, the pace of job gains is slowing down. once again, we're seeing temporary layoffs turn permanent. this month marked the largest single month increase in long-term unemployment since we started keeping records in 1948. there are now an additional 781,000 americans who have been

trying to find work for at least six months. they've been looking for work for at least six months and haven't found it. and in the past, that's a sign for permanency for them. we're still down 647,000 manufacturing jobs nationwide since the crisis started. all told, we are now 30 million workers who have either lost hours, lost paychecks or lost their jobs entirely. participating in the labor force, participation fell last month. and remains sharply down since this crisis began, especially for women. there's another roughly 700,000 people who have dropped out of the labor force, stopped looking for a job. the vast majority were women. demonstrating once again how this economic crisis has been especially tough on women and families in this country.

this will be the first presidency in modern history to leave office with fewer jobs than when it came into office. michigan has lost more than 361,000 jobs since the beginning of 2017. in fact, factories were already closing before covid. like the plant here in grand rapids. they announced back in january they were shutting down and cutting 210 local jobs. manufacturing has already slipped into recession last year. the net loss of it's manufacturing jobs you saw here in michigan. and that economic pain was only amplified by the pandemic. your schools and local businesses are closed like all places around america. more than 26 million unemployment claims were filed by americans last month.

46 million americans have exhausted their emergency savings. and essential workers here in grand rapids won't forget how the ufcw members saw their jobs turn suddenly into a life and death task. folks, today -- today's report reinforces another painful trend. continuing what economists call a k-shaped recovery. the k means that letter going up, that's those who on the top, it keeps going up, while everyone else in the middle is going down below. we're seeing things get worse. it means essential workers, ufcw workers, who sacrificed to keep us going through the pandemic and continue it are being left behind by the most unequal recovery in modern history

because while workers are struggling, this is a fact that the top 100 billionaires in america have done pretty well. just the top 100 of them. they made up more than $30 billion this year in the last nine months. and everyone else, though you get -- you keep hoping you get the bottom of that k-shape recovery. you get the downward slide. you'll have to figure out how you'll pay the bills and put food on the table. how to balance doing your job with being a teacher to your kids because their school has gone remote. you're asked to risk your neck because you can't work from home while the risks of covid are kept outside. because you work in a meat-packing plant or assembly line or checkout counter. you know, i do understand this

is scary time and uncertain time. i understand and i see you because i see the world from where i grew up in scranton, pennsylvania. a lot like grand rapids. it's filled with an awful lot of good people, busting their neck every day to do the right thing for their families. in scranton, my mom used to have an expression. not just in scranton, but from the time we left there. joey, nobody is better than you, joey, but everybody is your equal. my dad's constant refrain after he lost a job in scranton, when there was no more work and he had to move to delaware. he moved away for a little over a year. came back every weekend to see us. a time we finally, a couple years down the road in delaware finally able to buy a home. my dad used to say, a job is about a lot more than a paycheck. it's about your dignity. it's about respect. it's about your place in the

community. these are the values that shaped my growing up, and i suspect most of you. it shaped my whole life. so i know and understood from the very beginning, i'm conscious about this. that wall street and ceos didn't build this country. the middle class built this country. and unions built the middle class. that's why i've laid out a comprehensive agenda not just to rebuild our communities but to make bold investments so we can build back and build back better. and independent analysis from wall street, moody's projected that my plan will create 18.6 million jobs. 7 million more than the administration's economic plan. and $1 trillion more in economic growth than the president's plan. that's not coming from a liberal think tank. that's coming from moody's. here's how may plan works. i am going to raise taxes on

people only making over $400,000. anyone making less than $400,000 a year won't pay a penny more. but i'm going to ask the very big corporations, the fortune 500 and the wealthy to pay their fair share for a change. that means raising the corporate tax rate which was in the mid-30s and now is 21%, back to 28%. that means making sure that no big company gets away with paying zero taxes as 91 fortune 500 companies do today, making billions of dollars. zero taxes. how many of you paid zero taxes? it means making sure that the wealthiest americans don't get to pay the lower tax rate because they are making money on their investments, but they pay at the same rate that they pay for their salary. these changes in tax code will raise the money that will allow

me to invest in working people and growing the middle class which when i announced i was running, i said that's the reason to rebuild the backbone of this country. hard working folks in the middle class. we're going to invest in creating millions of good-paying jobs, union jobs. and this is, by the way, this -- my plan has been thoroughly analyzed by a whole bunch of folks. take infrastructure. building roads, bridges, highways, ports, airports. we'll put millions of people to work in good-paying union jobs and create the foundation for growth in this country. clean energy. just upgrading 4 million buildings and weatherizing 2 million homes will create at least 1 million good-paying jobs. leading the world on electric vehicles and building 500,000 electric vehicle charging stations on our highways will create 1 million new auto jobs here in this state.

the manufacturing and technology, those areas making sure, making sure the future is made in america. made in michigan with good union jobs. you know, the federal government spends $600 billion a year of your tax dollars. $600 billion a year to purchase everything from military equipment to steel to cars to trucks to federal fleets. at $600 billion. when i'm president, we're going to make sure we finally make good on a commitment made a long time ago that these products, all these contracts that the president of the united states and the federal government can award, make sure those products issue made by americans in america. making sure that that's done. it's estimated that will create 5 million new manufacturing

jobs. and technology jobs. for small businesses, we're going to make sure small businesses come out on the other side of this circumstance with access to capital and the ability to deal with the debts that have been accumulated during this pandemic. and we'll make investments to increase incomes as well. $15 minimum wage. no one -- no one should be in a position to have to work two jobs just to get above the poverty line. we're going to bring back jobs from america -- from overseas to america. direct billions of dollars in revitalization funds and competitive grants to help communities like those in western michigan compete for new business start-ups. for essential workers, we're not just going to praise you. we're going to pay you a good wage to ensure you have a strong benefit. we're going to ease the burden of the major costs in your life.

health care. we'll build on the affordable care act through a new health insurance option. a not for profit public option which will give private insurers a real competitor. we'll increase subsidies for your premiums so they're lower, so you can afford the plans with lower deductions and lower out-of-pocket expenses. it will cost -- that plan alone will cost over $700 billion over ten years. but it's paid for by eliminating those tax cuts. for a 40-year-old making $50,000 a year, your monthly premium will go down by one-third. we'll take on the pharmaceutical companies with a plan to slash the cost of prescription drugs for up to 60%. medicare will be able to negotiate prices for drugs. fundamentally lowering those prices. and child care, a lot of you are dealing with that now.

how do you go to work if you have work, and take care of your kids? or an aging relative that's in trouble. we're going to make high-quality child care affordable and accessible. every 3-year-old and 4-year-old will have access to free quality preschool. we're going to make sure that low and middle income families will never have to pay more than 7% of their income for caring for a young child. and education beyond high school, we're going to make sure that four-year college tuitions at a state university is tuition-free for any family making less than $125,000. community college will be free, and programs for training will be free as well. if you are buying your first home, you'll have a $15,000 help to get there. these are all things that people have been talking about for a while. we're going to protect social

security and increase the benefits for millions of seniors. the president is talking about giving -- eliminating the withholding tax. well, that's wonderful except for one thing. the actuary at social security said if that plan goes through, social security will be bankrupt by 2023. folks, i promise you. we can do this. let me close by saying this. i know -- i know a lot of people around here are tired of feeling overlooked and disrespected. i get that. the people i met this week taking a train through northeastern ohio and western pennsylvania, people like dedicated elementary schoolteacher from lordstown, ohio, whose husband when lordsdown shut down accepted a transfer in kentucky eight hours away each direction in order to be able to keep his health care and pension after the gm plant

closed. folks who worry about health care. will the affordable care act still be there for them? why? why they ask, will i be among the 100 million americans who could lose the protections for pre-existing conditions like asthma and diabetes? where once again, women will be able to charge a higher premium, just simply because they're a woman. where insurers no longer have to allow you to be able keep your kids on a health care plan until age 26. what will happen to your medicare benefits, your social securit security? will they still be there when you retire? i'm asked many times in recent years, how do we get to the place where people who stock our shelves, pack our food, teach our kids like my family, take care of my wife, take care of our sick, who race into burning buildings and pick up the

garbage off our streets, who did. how do we get to the place where y'all don't think we see you anymore, or hear them. and most importantly, respect them. that has to change. i know it can. i come from those neighborhoods. we can get this pandemic under control. so we can get our economy working again for everyone. but this cannot be a partisan moment. it must be an american moment. we have to come together as a nation. i'm running as a democrat. but i will run and govern as an american president, whether you voted for me or against me w, i will represent you. and those who see each other as fellow americans or don't just live in red states or blue states, but who live in and love the united states of america,

that's who we are. and there's never been a single, solitary thing that america has been able footo do. think about this, not once. not a single thing we've not been able to overcome and we've done it together. so let's get the heck up, remember who in god's name we are. this is the united states of america. there's nothing beyond our capacity. i want to say god bless you and god protect the first family and every family who is dealing with this virus and may god protect our troops. thank you, thank you, thank you. >> you've been listening to joe biden, wearing his mask. looks pretty smart today for choosing to do that, anywhere that there is any risk, which these days is just about anywhere. vice president biden out with a prayerful and emotional message of support and good health and good wishes for the president of

the united states and his wife, melania trump. vice president also urging that we pay attention and listen to science when it comes to the things we can do to protect ourselves and our families from coronavirus. but spending a lot of time in that speech dealing with the twin crises facing michigan and most parts of this country, frankly. of the pandemic and the economic pain that has ensued since the pandemic gripped this country many months ago. mike memoli, your thoughts about this speech? this was an important one. one where the vice president had to nail not just a message, but the tone, is there a sense on his campaign that he did that? >> yeah, nicole, there's a reason we talk every four years about the october surprise, right? perhaps because there's no better test of how a candidate for president would deal with a crisis as president than how they respond to something they're not expecting during a time when the pressure of the

campaign is at its highest. and the speech you just heard joe biden give there is the same speech he was going to give before the president's diagnosis was going to be given, other than with him extending his thoughts and wishes to the first family, to the president, and to the first lady. the message that he's been running on this entire campaign and especially since the on set of the pandemic in march is exactly the message he was delivering there. they billed this speech, nicole, as a speech about the economy. he was speaking to a union audience, but with the biden campaign, all roads lead back to the pandemic. it was a union which has a lot of members who are front line essential workers during this pandemic. the audience included a survivor of covid-19. and so when you want to see if a candidate for president is able to adapt to changing circumstances, this is a candidate who was able to do that. the question i've been getting all day, how does this change things for the biden campaign? how will they change their schedule? i think there was some debate this morning, as biden's team

first grappled with the news, about whether to cancel this event. but as soon as they got that negative test for joe biden and for his wife, the sense was, you need to continue to walk and chew gum at the same time. that they don't need to change anything about how they have been running their campaign for the last few months, because they've adapted accordingly to the pandemic in a way that the president and his campaign have not. there's one campaign today, nicole, that's scrambling to adjust their strategy, adjust the kind of events they're doing, and it is not the biden campaign. biden is here in michigan. dr. jill biden went ahead with events in new hampshire. senator kamala harris is going ahead, just land and will be doing a joint fund-raiser as always scheduled tonight. they are showing they can continue to go about their business at a time of crisis, nicole. >> i want to pull out and offer up an historical parallel. in 2018, that surprise was the

tragic economic collapse and the incumbent president was my old boss, george. with bush. the republican candidate was my then boss, john mccain, and he was running against president obama. president obama displayed leadership and crisis management skills and acumen that in that moment that was beyond the control of either campaign, the american people got to see what both men would be like in a crisis. and you are absolutely right, mike memoli, that campaigns have no control over what happens in the final weeks of a campaign, but good campaigns try to showcase how they would deal with a crisis and because the biden campaign and his candidacy has really been oriented on keeping him and everyone on his campaign safe, the adjustments were far less than the adjustments the trump campaign will have to make. i guess my follow up question is, do they have any sense of

whether or not the next debate will take place? >> first of all, nicole, i had the same exact memory in mind. i didn't necessarily want to raise it, because i didn't want to bring up some bad memories on your part. >> it's okay! >> reporter: but i was covering joe biden 12 years ago during that campaign. and i'll never forget. we were in indiana, which was then a battleground state when john mccain announced he was suspending his campaign. and i remember the sentiment around the press corps that day traveling with then senator joe biden was, wow, what a smart idea. they really seizing the moment. and obama/biden campaign back th th then, no, they thought they were missing the moment and continued ahead with their schedule and used that to their advantage in the campaign. to your point about how this affects the campaign's thinking, there's a certain amount of concern, of course, on the part of the biden campaign that they learned about this news, the same way we all did, from news reports. there was no contact from the trump team, from the white house, to tell them that there

was potentially exposure of the biden team and the former vice president himself by trump and his team. there's a certain about an anger about that, but a certain amount of concern about the debate commission themselves. there are very real questions about why the debate commission did not enforce their own rules, why they allowed members of the trump family to sit in that audience without wearing masks and there's also questions now, did the president get tested in order to be in that room the same way that the former vice president and frankly i and everyone else on our campus had to be tested. that's a question that the biden campaign wants posed to the debate commission right now. and i think it's one that we'll expect an answer to before we move ahead and participate in any debates and whatever form they might look like going forwar forward. >> mike memoli on the road, thank you very much for your reporting. we should never hesitate to bring up my failures of which

i'm apart of. i want to bring in -- bring carol lee back in this conversation. we've been covering the breaking news. news broke a little after 1:00 a.m. last night eastern time that donald trump and his wife, melania, have tested positive for coronavirus. we've learned in the last hour the president is running a low-grade fever and has been treated with a drug cocktail zpind to combat the virus in his system. carol lee, what else do we know at this hour about the president's condition? >> we know, nicole, that he has he said, has low-grade fever according to three sources. we told that to nbc news. we also know that his voice is a little raspy, although that's been true all day and according to sources and that could be coming from the number of ral rallies that he's been doing. he's obviously been out there talking a lot. we just don't know.

and we also got an update from the president's physician, which is probably the most significant development, and that says -- the physician said that the president has received an infusion of an antibody treatment and that he is resting comfortably. that they are monitoring him. they said he's taking aspirin and other over-the-counter sorts of things and that he's fatigued. the doctor also said that the first lady has a cough and mild symptoms and that the rest of the first family is fine and tested negative for coronavirus, nicole. >> and we should just remind our viewers, the way this story broke into public view, before news of the president's positive covid test and the first lady's, there was late news last night of a positive covid test and a symptomatic senior adviser, hope hicks, became ill. the white house chief of staff, mark meadows revealing, maskless, to the press this morning on the white house

complex that she became ill on wednesday. so the timeline still very much in focus and contact tracing likely underway. there are also reports of a positive covid test from the president of notre dame. he was in attendance at the white house ceremony all the way back on saturday, feels like 11 years ago, but just barely seven days ago at the ceremony to announce donald trump's latest appointment to the supreme court. dr. hotez is someone who has talked us through the tragic deaths of more than 200,000 americans, the spread of covid to more than 7 million americans, and the ensuing changes to every aspect of american life. dr. hotez, i have to say, i did not think that i would turn to you for your reaction to the breaking news that donald trump and his wife had tested positive, but here we are. your reaction? >> well, my reaction, nicole, and thanks for having me, is

that i'm worried for the health of the president. i think he's a very high-risk patient. he's 74 years old. he's not in good underlying health in the sense of his weight, which is an important co-morbidity. i don't know anything about hypertension or diabetes. and the fact that he's male and we have numbers on 74-year-old males with underlying co-morbid conditions. and it's a high mortality rate. roughly between 5 to 12%. so that's a really concern. so we -- you know, could be looking at a major national security crisis. and so what should we do because of that? well, one of the things that we know is that this virus causes very low oxygen levels, even to the point where it can cause sudden death, because what happens is in a lot of patients with these low oxygen levels paradoxically doesn't seem to have shortness of breath. it's one of the findings we found in new york.

so it means they require a lot of monitoring. it also means we heard about the infusion of the monoclonal antibody cocktail, we can talk about that. but i'm concerned that they're trying to do this level of monitoring in the white house, which is really not meant for that purpose. i would feel a lot more comfortable given the importance of the presidency, the national security risk, that we bring him into walter reed this evening, under controlled circumstances, so we can prevent any kind of emergency type of transfer in the middle of the night. do it under controlled circumstances, where everybody is around, where you can have that intensive level of monitoring. he may do very well, keep him over the weekend and watch him very closely with that monitoring and that oxygen nation. i'm really uncomfortable they're doing this in the white house tonight. >> wow, just a stunning thing to hear out loud, and having worked

in the white house, there is a lot of medical care you can get. but just explain sort of the difference between the kind of care that even a white house would have available to a patient like a president and what the differences -- i guess in a hospital, you can monitor oxygen levels probably with more sophisticated equipment. is that the biggest difference? >> certainly monitoring with all the key functions, oxygenation, respiration, and they can probably do that in the white house, but having the personnel around. you want to have the physicians, the anesthesiologists, the house staff in case things slide in the wrong direction. we know this virus can cause patients to decompensate very quickly. we've been hearing about a number of sudden deaths for a number of reasons. one, that low oxygen level. others, thrombobottic events,

pulmona pulmonary emboli, this is a serious disease and have caused 200,000 deaths for a reason. and a lot of those 200,000 deaths do not cause the excess mortality of those who die suddenly at home. it's probably much higher than those 200,000 deaths. and given the national security of the president and his underlying risk factors and the fact that he's also getting an experimental treatment which we don't have a lot of experience with, i'm very enthusiastic about the reengijeregeneron mon antibody, i think that was the right thing to do, given that it's showing a lot of promise and it makes sense that it works, but that's yet another reason why you don't try to do this in a setting where there are not optimally secure for this purpose. he has access to one of the great medical facilities of the world. i realize everyone likes to sleep in their own bed and it's an annoyance, but that's what it

is, right? no one wants to go into the hospital, but we have to think about the nation and we have to think about the consequences of getting it wrong by having him stay in the white house tonight. i would do it under controlled circumstances, bring him in. let's see how he does over the next couple of days and i have some optimism that he'll do well, given that he's gotten the monoclonal antibody cocktail. i just think it's a level of risk keeping him in the white house tonight. >>. >> dr. hotez, would it be your guest that his personal physician would feel the way you do? is there some consensus that a male his age with his comorbidities, i think you described them as, with a positive diagnosis for covid and some symptoms would be getting more care that you can get, even at the white house, at home? >> yeah, no question, he's getting more care in the white house than he would at home.

but he could get even better care at walter reed army, a national medical center. lock, if it were me and the president and my age and und underlying comorbidities, i would ask to be admitted to the hospital where he can have all of that monitoring. and if he requires intensive care support, you've got all the anesthesiologists, all the respiratory therapists, you've got all of the iv technicians standing right there. you've got the house staff that can be monitoring at a higher level. i just -- you know, it's hard to second guess physician's decisions. and i don't want to necessarily do that, but i would have a very low threshold of bringing him to a more aggressive setting where he could be monitored. remember, this is the president of the united states. there is no room for error in this, especially in the month before the election, fwhen

somethi where if something catastrophic were going to happen, it could really set the country back. >> you and i have had some of our most impassioned conversations about disinformation that the president has participated in disseminating about the coronavirus pandemic and its risk to americans and its trajectory here in this country. it's been reported that as recently as the last 24 to 48 hours, on a call, he talked about rounding the corner and seeing this thing almost go away. it contradicts all the testimony of cdc director redfield and anthony fauci, who were warning in their sworn testimony about a potential second wave and models that the white house has used before predict up to 388,000 americans could lose their lives by the end of the year. where do you see us right now, dr. hotez, in the coronavirus pandemic in this country? >> well, tragically, i think,

nicole, we're still very much in the middle of this. we're now -- we were peaking in terms of the number of new cases around 66,000 new cases a day, because of that massive southern surge. it's -- then it came down around the end of august, around to 30,000 new cases a day. and now it's going back up. it's around 42,000 cases a day. and it's really -- and it's not homogeneously spread across the country. it's really picking up in a big way, up in the northern midwest. wisconsin is starting to get hit very hard now, the dakotas, and it's also further down in the middle part of the country, missouri, arkansas, and maybe even oklahoma and texas. so this, i believe, is the beginning of that third peak. i don't want to call it wave, because that has a different meaning, but third peak of the infection. and the other concern i have is, we saw higher mortality in the

cold months than in the summer months and part of that may be, we were still on a steep learning curve, knowing how to take care of patients back in march and april, but there are a couple of papers out now showing, there's higher virus in the cold weather and the innoculum are greater, and that could account for the higher mortality. we could not only be seeing a big rise in cases in the midwest, but an increase in mortality rates. and i have to believe that new york and boston cohn could be in for it yet again this fall and winter. i'm really upset and worried about what i see happening in the united states and with the vaccine probably not widely available to the middle of next year, assuming that we can show that it works and it's safe. we're going to be in for a very tough time, no matter what. >> dr. hotez, i'm going to ask you to stay with us. since you've been talking about

your professional opinion being one that would be reassured by the country's president being monitored and cared for in the hospital, we have put up a picture of the white house where we believe donald trump to be resting in the residence in isolation with the first lady. i want to bring into our conversation, former deputy national security adviser to president obama, ben rhodes. ben, your thoughts to not just the president falling ill. i know having worked for a president, no one ever wants this country's leader incapacitated in any way. but to how we got here. a president disdainful and very skeptical of the kinds of advice and public health measures that dr. hotez has been recommending for many, many months. the president publicly talking about how he downplayed the virus on purpose, even though he knew it was deadly not just for old people, but younger people, too, in tapes that were revealed by bob woodward. now the president and first lady

fighting their own infections against coronavirus. >> well, nicole, that was very sobering from dr. hotez and obviously, we hope that we have a recovery here for the president and the first lady. i do think, you know, the lessons are very clear here, nicole. i remember coming on your program in march and the steps that needed to be taken were quite obvious in terms of the behavior that needed to be modeled by the president, wearing masks, encouraging social distancing, making clear to people the variety of this risk. and we of course know that none of that happened. and i was struck, nicole, as a former white house aide by the reports that came out today that the white house operations unit somehow greenlit president trump traveling to a fund-raiser where he would be around a lot of people without a mask, even after they knew this of this infection of hope hicks and the symptoms. that's an indication of a white house that has been designed and built over the course of four years to tell a president what he wants to hear and not what he wants to know. i was in a lot of conversations

with the secret service about whether to put the president at risk, whether to go to afghanistan or put the president in a crowd. there were the imperative of the secret service to say not to do things. and you had to say, no, he wants to go to afghanistan. so we've seen a replica of an entire response, wishing this away and not taking it seriously and putting ro inting lots of p work. >> and the secret service has not been spared, "the new york times" has reported on outbreaks among their ranks. ben, i want to show you something. chris wallace, we have some tape of chris wallace talking about the president skipping the mandatory covid testing in ohio on tuesday night. let me show this to you. i think it gets to your point about the system being built around the president and perhaps what he wants to hear. let's watch and we'll talk about it on the other side.

>> they weren't tested by the clinic based on this statement, chris. and to me, that sounds like an honor system. >> well, they couldn't be tested by the -- >> well, you were tested. i was tested. >> i understand -- i understand, bill. but the difference was that i arrived on sunday. i think you arrived on monday. they didn't arrive until tuesday afternoon. so for them to get tested, there wouldn't have been enough time to take the test and have the debate at 9:00 that night. they didn't show up until 3:00, 4:00, 5:00 in the afternoon. so there was an honor system when it came to the people who came into the hall from the two campaigns. >> so carol, let me bring you back in here. it sounds like chris wallace is a making a distinction between himself and a moderator and others who were around that presidential debate tuesday night and revealing that the president and his entourage did not participate in the mandatory testing provided by the cleveland clinic on tuesday.

>> that's exactly what we heard there. and the white house has said every day that the president and around him are tested. so presumably, because the president didn't arrive until tuesday afternoon, there wasn't time for him to do that, according to chris wallace and that he, we would think, got a test before he left for cleveland and that those around him, you have to remember, just a reminder of what that scene looked like, there was the president, his children, his -- >> carol, let me jump in. i'm sure you've got this ahead of me, carol, but let me just share reporting that i think you've helped bring to our network with our viewers. we can report that, very much what dr. hotez thought a medical recommendation would be is coming to pass. the president, out of an abundance of caution, is going

to be heading to walter reed medical center, where as dr. hotez pointed out, it is one of the preeminent medical centers in the world. his care there will be much more sophisticated and advanced than anything available, even at the white house. according to sources, he will work from the presidential offices at walter reed, but he will be under closer supervision. carol, is there more we know about that decision and how it came to be? >> yeah, nicole, look, obviously, the white house has a medical unit, they can do any number of things. this clearly is something that is beyond the capacity of the white house and so the president is going over to walter reed. we're told he's going to be there for a few days, working out of the offices there. you know, and that he's expected, we actually may see him. he's expected to board marine one at the white house around 5:30. we're told that his symptoms are

still mild, he's in good spirits and doing well and that this was a move that was recommended by the president's doctors. but still, it's rather extraordinary. and you know, if you look at the way that the white house is framing this, it is trying to ease any potential panic over or about the president taking this step, by saying he's going over there, he's going to be working. notably, the president is doing this after the markets have closed. we know that the markets went down after it was revealed he tested positive for coronavirus. they waited until 5:30. we're told the president will board marine one. but this is the white house saying out of basically precautionary, because the president can be monitored. there's always a doctor with him, an entire medical unit at the white house, but that has a certain level of limitations. and he can get a lot more attention if he goes somewhere

like walter reed. so we may, in fact, see the president. and that is, nicole, something that some folks around the president wanted him to do today, because to get out there and be visible. so to really assure the country that he is, indeed, okay. >> so i guess we get both pieces of that, ben rhodes. he will be visible, but he will be boarding a helicopter, which is one way to get to walter reed. he's also traveled to walter reed before by car. but he will be traveling via marine one to walter reed to get some sort of advanced care from what is available at the white house. your reaction, ben? >> to echo what's been said, i worked in the white house for eight years and frankly, my doctors are the white house doctors. and i was treated in that medical unit. but i was treated for minor things. i think people shouldn't overstate the medical capacity at the white house.

in fact, if you wanted a full physical, like just a physical you would get from your doctor or your primary caregiver, they would send you up to walter reed. the white house medical department is basically an office. i think it demonstrates, i think people watching will see the severity of this disease. and it was possible, if you were just consuming information from the president and from some of the more friendly news outlets that he has, that this disease was somehow not as serious. and one thing that could come out of this is people recogni recognizing people taking this seriously. a test is vaccine is not a vaccine. you can be infected around the period you have a test. so i think it's the right call. i think it's important for people to understand that this capacity is not available at the white house. that walter reed is the place they send you for any kind of advanced treatment or if you want a checkup. but the thing that may come out

of this is sobering up any parts of the country that were not taking this seriously, not wearing masks, not practiciing distancing. and point out, a source close to the president says this punctures a weeks-long campaign on his part in trying to showcase an america where a pandemic isn't ranging. four nights of televised events at his convention where people were not wearing masks, by and large, where they were not social distancing, all the way up to and throughout images we saw of staffers boarding marine one and air force one yesterday, not wearing masks s or social distancing from one another. >> and i think it throws a pretty harsh light on the images of this summer, the images of rallies that he's had since tulsa. crowds he himself have tweeted out. white house staffers walking to marine one with no masks when any of us have to wear masks to go outside or go to the grocery

store. frankly, a key part of his campaign against joe biden was that he was hiding in the basement or as he said as recently as the debate, he always wears a mask. and i don't want say that because i have nothing but the best wishes for prrp's recovery, but the behavior the president models really matters. i remember when there were swigss aboswigs rumors about the h1n1 vaccine, we photographed president obama getting that vaccine in the white house. and now i think we may be entering a period at least where whatever part of the country was rejecting that information and was choosing to inhabit the reality where you can go to rallies. i mean, i want to put a fine point on this, nicole, as someone who works on international issues, there are not events like that in other countries. the trump rallies that we've seen, the large indoor gathering. we are an outlier among every

nation in the world in having those types of events. and therefore, it's not a surprise that we're an outlier when it comes to the numbers of cases and deaths in this country. and now finally reality has caught up. and the reality is the president of the united states being infected by covid. and the president not only not protecting this country, but not protecting the white house from this virus. >> and not protecting himself and his family. we are watching a live image of marine one. there are usually two. this looks like the one that is going to land on the south lawn of the white house. there are always two, was this looks like the one getting ready to land there on the south lawn. it will transport the president to walter reed medical center, where dr. hotez at the beginning of this hour said he would feel a whole lot better if donald trump went to. dr. hotez, are you still with us? >> nicole, thanks.

>> go ahead. >> yes, no, i think this is the appropriate move to make. this is the way to ensure that the president will get all of the best care possible. look, let's face it, nicole, he's sick. he's got fever. he has all of the risk factors that are suggestive of severe morbidity and mortality. you can use euphemisms saying it's a low-grade fever. he has fever. he's sick. he needs a higher level of care. he's requiring a monoclonal antibody treatments. it's an experimental treatment. we don't have a lot of experience with it. i endorse that treatment from regeneron, i think it's the right monoclonal antibody cocktail to take. if i were sick, i would want that cocktail. i think medically, the team is making the right moves. and the only piece that puzzled me all day today is why are they trying to manage this in the

white house with ivs and everything else? this is not the best care for the president of the united states. bringing him to walter reed where he can get a higher level of supervision, monitoring for oxygen levels, which can be so precarious with this disease, monitoring for thrombotic events, and god forbid, should he take a turn for the worse, there's a team there. this needed to be done and needed to be done now. you don't want to start doing this in the middle of the night. when i was taking care of patients regularly, when you were admitting a patient to the hospital, you want to do it under controlled circumstances, when everyone is waiting for the patient, putting in all of the pieces in place, making a care plan. it's never optimal to do this in the middle of the night. so all in all, this was absolutely the right thing to do. i probably would have done it

sooner, but i'm glad they're doing it before sunset. >> so just to remind anyone, just joining us, this is a live image of marine one helicopter that travels with the president just about anywhere he goes, unless it's a particularly dangerous spot. it will today carry the current president, donald j. trump, from the white house to walter reed medical center, where he will remain for a few days, the white house tells us, as a precautionary measure to monitor his symptoms, his low-grade fever, his feeling tired, which is one of the symptoms white house aides have described from his positive diagnosis of the coronavirus. eli stokols is joining us, as well. eli, take us inside anything you're hearing from your white house sources? >> well, nicole, all day, it has

just been the usual chaos inside this west wing times a hundred. the white house medical staff has been administering covid tests, trying to do the contact tracing to not just all the staffers who are around the president, but also to all the reporters and other people who have traveled with the president in recent days. and outwardly, this white house has not answered any questions, too many questions, really, about the president's health. they have sent the chief of staff out and the press secretary was briefly outside. but they have tried to say throughout the day that the president is fine, the symptoms are minor, everything is fine, he's working really hard. obviously, with what's going on now, the pictures you're seeing of marine one about to take the president to walter reed, this is not normal. the president is not exactly fine. he has a virus for which there is no cure, for which 208,000 americans have already died from it. and it is very unpredictable. a lot of people are asymptomatic and a lot of other people, young and old, have suffered greatly and experienced a variety of symptoms. and so this is really more

serious than the white house and the president have wanted to project and present to the country. and they have tried to manage it. they put out a statement from the doctor, the white house physician, a short while ago saying he's fatigued, but, you know, this decision which we're just now finding out about here in the last 10 or 15 minutes, this has been quietly in the works for several hours. there was a team of reporters, a small, protective pool sent ahead to walter reed to get there ahead of the president. obviously, it takes some time to get marine one to the white house lawn. a lot of these decisions have been made earlier this afternoon, kept under wraps, and now we are learning about it now. and i have also heard, as have carol and other people who carry this white house, is that the president not tweeting, there's a lot of concern, a lot of mystery. this is not a president who's ever been transparent about his own health or really much of anything. in a situation like this, people need more information about president's health. there are people inside this

white house who understand that the president has to go out and be seen at some point. and we may see that in a few minutes as he walks outside and boards marine one. just a lot of anxiety inside this white house. here we are, 32 days from election day and the president himself is now the biggest symbol of his own failures to contain this pandemic. and beyond the politics of it, this is a president who may be very sick or who could get sicker. so really just adding to the anxiety inside the white house and all across the country as we watch what's going on and try to get answers from more of our sources inside. but it has been hard to reach people today, because just of the frantic situation there and a all the chaos and all the concern for people personally, not just the politics, who are trying to get tested and trying to figure out if they may have been exposed. >> eli, you have given voice to a lot of what i have heard for the last maybe 16 hours,

starting with the breaking news about hope hicks. let me just go over some of the rooms that people now know to be -- as you said, they're not just positive, they are sick. hope hicks, i understand, to be pretty sick. she was in a room with everyone prepping the president for the debate with chris christie, rudy giuliani, mark meadows. the two mr. millers and others. you've got the supreme court nominee on saturday where the president of notre dame was also there. and there's lots of video i've seen of people sick with covid hugging other people, not wearing masks, not social distancing. and this is a group of people associated with the president who has been so scornful of science and scientists. who mocked joe biden for wearing

a mask tuesday night. said, oh, this guy, everywhere he goes, he's got a mask on that's so big. everyone wants donald trump to recover quickly and make his way back to the campaign trail, but he is fwhoun of tnow one of the people who is infected with covid in part because he ignored the best scientists in the world, eli. >> and he did it for six months. it's not that it was inevitable, but it is shocking when you learn that he has tested positive for coronavirus at 1:00 in the morning. given how cavalier he's been about mask wearing, expressing skepticism to dr. fauci and others in his own administration about the things that were required, framing this as an either/or between physical health and economic health and we've got to open the states and anyone who was coming down and prioritizing public health was doing it for political reasons. just yesterday, the president

recorded a speech for the al smith public charities. and he said on tape that the worst of the pandemic was pretty much over. hours later he's tweeting, only after a reporter, jen jacobs at bloomberg, scooped the fact that hope hicks had tested positive, only after that did the president reveal his own diagnosis. but the white house has not answered questions about the timeline. we don't know who else may have been exposed, how early the president was feeling symptoms. i've talked to people who thought he was a little bit lethargic wednesday night in duluth, minnesota, at his rally. i know it was cold there and he had a government funding bill to sign, but he was only on stage for 45 minutes, and he appeared to some people on the plane with him to be more tired than normal. we don't know when these symptoms first came on for the president. there's so many questions that we're trying to get answered here, but obviously, this is the result of a president who did

not take the health precautions all that seriously, who as you pointed out, scorned joe biden on the debate stage tuesday night for wearing a mask. joe biden has worn a mask, as trump noted, almost every time he's appeared in public. and today joe biden is the one who's tested negative twice for coronavirus and is still out there on the campaign trail with 32 days to go. >> as eli stokols is reporting, it is hard to get information about the president's health, but he has tweeted a abo eed abr visit to walter reed in the last few weeks. joining our conversation is "new york times" correspondent mike schmidt. you write in your book about another trip to walter reed. we have a live picture of marine one, where the president is expected to get onboard any moment, and travel to walter reed for a few days, to have his condition monitored, as he is now reportedly sick with symptoms of coronavirus.

but you wrote about another trip there, where we didn't get a ton of details about the president's health. >> so the last time that i believe the president was at walter reed was in november, during impeachment. and at the time, he said he was going because -- to begin his yearly physical, it was to start his physical. and that was very curious and did not make much sense. it wouldn't make sense that the president on a saturday afternoon would go to have a physical done, when there are many things medically can be done at the white house. what i reported later was that the vice president had been told to be on stand by for when the president went there. and he had to be on stand by, because they thought that they may have to put the president under anesthesia. that for some type of procedure, they would have to perform on him. obviously, not the type of procedure that would go on

during a normal physical. so it didn't make sense at the time in november, and then after i reported that, pence came out and tried to answer that question and he sort of stumbled over it. and then the president turned it into something else. and he said that there had been reports that he had many strokes and he talked about it publicly. but at the end of the day, we do not know what happened the last time the president went to walter reed. we do not have a clear indication. and what that does is, it erodes the public's confidence when the white house has to come out now and speak at a time when the president is sick. people wonder. it's like, well, if they weren't forthcoming in november, then what it is that we don't know today? >> well, let me bring one of our doctors back in the conversation. dr. bedelia, are you still with us? >> i'm here, nicole.

>> so what is it? you and dr. hotez have both talked about co-morbidities. we have the ones we know about, about the president's obesity, which was reported at his last physical, but we also have this unexplained, never-really-reported out mystery visit to walter reed. just talk about the arc of this pandemic and how other risk factors have impracticacted pat of donald trump's age. >> thanks, nicole. you know, as we're moving past the few months when we started the pandemic, what we're discover sthing is that this is just a disease of the lungs. it asks the brain, the kidneys, it affects patients with hypertension, with heart disease, patients who might have underlying immunocompromised or lung disease are at high risk of having a severe course. i think you've heard many doctors on your show say this in the past.

the kind of courses that we've seen for patients, we still don't know a lot about this disease, about who gets a severe course and who doesn't have a severe course. some patients with comorbidities end up having a severe course, and those who don't. i have seen patients who are young who would come in and within 48 hours get critically ill and potentially even pass away in some cases. i think echoing what dr. hotez said, i think there are three reasons why this is a good move. one is, this allows for closer vigilan vigilance, because it's not just his lungs that need to be watched, but this is a military-system disease. and a closer monitoring of all of those aspects, especially risk for strokes or impact on his heart. having been in a hospital allows that closer monitoring. and the second, as dr. hotez also said is important to stress, sometimes we take these pressur measures in non-emergent ways so we don't have to do emergent

transfers to the hospital. this is a way to take a patient that might potentially be high risk to be around a system where there are a lot more physicians and specialists who can give greater input. the last thing that might be important is that moving the president to the hospital potentially allows them to open up therapeutic options for them. and we just talked about the remdesivir, generally that's given to patients who are hospitalized, so that might be another added benefit when he's in walter reed. >> i just want to remind anyone who's just joining us. we're looking at a live picture of marine one, it is so designated because it carries the president of the united states. today, it will carry donald j. trump to walter reed medical center, where he will receive treatment and be under closer supervision. in the words of the white house, it's a move being made out of an abundance of caution. but for all the reasons that dr.

hotez and dr. adelia has tli articulated, someone of president trump's age and with his comorbidities and an unexplained visit to walter reed last year, when mike pence was told to be on stand by, is also on his health record. i want to bring carol lee back into the conversation. carol, what are we learning? do we know if anyone will go with the president or is he expected to travel to walter reed by himself? >> well, certainly, nicole, the president's doctors are likely to go with him. his doctor pretty much travels wherever he does and he typically will have a military aid with him traveling on marine one. we do know, i'm told from a white house official, that in terms of what mike was talking about earlier, of the idea of handing over power to the vice president for a time, this white house official says there is no

discussion in the white house at this time of doing that. the official also says that we will see images of the president as he leaves here in the white house to go over to walter reed. and it's worth stressing the white house's statement on this and their posture is that this is a precautionary measure for the president. that's what we were told, that this is not something that they want the country to be alarmed about, clearly. and, you know, as part of that, what they're saying is that the president is going to walter reed as a precautionary measure, and that he'll be there for a few days. so that he's not -- this is not the typical walter reed trip that we're you'd to seeing, where the president will leave and then come back later in the day. the white house official says that the president will stay there for a few days and that he will work out of the presidential offices there at the medical facility. however, we do know that the president is experiencing

symptoms and that he has, according to our sources, a low-grade fever and his doctor has given him treatment for that, this regeneronand antibody cocktail infusion. and that's probably what he's going to go to walter reed to be monitored for. a as we've been saying, the white house has a very robust medical unit but certain limitations. the white house trying to project an image of calm and stress this is a precautionary measure. the white house officials saying no discussion -- the president is in charge, no discussion of handing over power to the vice president, even temporarily at this time. and we should see him any moment now, nicole. >> and we have eyes on that -- when we see him, we will make those pictures available, of course. i want to come back to you, dr. hotez. the president is in a condition

right now, where at least i am, you couldn't go to the grocery store. i get my temperature checked before i go in and buy milk and eggs. you couldn't get into school in the president's condition. he is sick right now. talk about how long those symptoms can last for someone his age with his conditions? >> nicole, the risk is because of his underlying factors, the fact that he's male, his aige, the comorbidities, this puts him in a serious risk category, including pretty high death rates, between 5 and 12%. and the reason that happens are because of what's called thro o thrombolic events. that's something we didn't know early on in this virus. we thought initially this virus

was going to go by the same playbook as the first sars back in 2003 that emerged out of southern china, which caused overwhelming respiratory illness and acute respiratory distress. and we learned pretty quickly in europe earlier this year and then in europe, this causes vascular events. in part because the virus binds to a receptor on cells lining the vascular and that included pretty dramatic symptoms, including the possibility of sudden death. so one of the advances that was started in new york was to start putting patients on anticoagulants and to prevent those kind of thrombotic events and that helped reduce mortality and steroid, as well. dexamethasone, that came out of studies out of oxford and the uk. the other very eerie piece about this covid-19 virus, the

sars/coronavirus type ii is it causes really low oxygen levels, yet it does so in patients without a lot of respiratory distress. if you get a bacterial pneumonia, you not only feel sick, but feel a shortness of breath. that's because you're retaining carbon dioxide. with this, you have low oxygen levels, but don't feel a shortness of breath. so people were coming into the er not feeling terribly sick, but have low oxygen levels. so the reason for admitting him to the hospital is to make certain nothing catastrophic happens at home. and we've seen so many catastrophes happen in the house. so emts are coming to the house with a patient who's perished who seemed like they were doing pretty well with covid-19, because of those factors. and given his underlying associated risk factors, to me,

it was a no-brainer. you needed to admit him to the hospital and need to do it now, not in the middle of the night. because you want to do it under very controlled circumstances, when everyone's around, when you communicate with all the specialists, everyone's waiting. you never want to have to admit a patient in the middle of the night if you don't have to. so they did the right thing. >> speaking of the middle of the night, brian williams was on the air when the news broke that the president of the united states is positive for coronavirus. he joins us now. brian, an image that i can't imagine any of us ever thought we'd see. marine one getting ready to transport an incumbent president from the white house residence to walter reed for a few days to treat him for the coronavirus. >> yeah, nicole, i am not certain we will see the president. you know these angles as well as anyone. the gentlemen we can see in

black on the lower right hand side of the screen is where the kind of temporary forward air controller usually stands when the helicopter is on approach, on departure, or present on the lawn. there's a preset landing zone on the lawn, they put out giant red discs where the wheels are to stand. and these marine aviators, part of the hmx air wing, are among the best in the world. you see the marine dismounted at the door. the tally lights are on, the strobe lights are on. it appears the jet engines are running. obviously, the rotors won't start until he's onboard. we know nothing about how he'll make it out there, on foot, in a wheelchair, in a golf cart. it is evident they are not eager to share the camera angle of him boarding.

we'll see if that changes. but this is, obviously, an urgent and interesting turn of events. it's impossible, nicole, to image this white house saying anything other than, we are sending him to walter reed out of an abundance of caution. i think the last thing they're ever going to say is, this is an urgent matter and we can't wait to get him over to the hospital. and we're going to have to wait and get more full and honest medical assessments of the president in the next hours and days. >> you know, brian, something i keep thinking about, when you read the reporting that hope hicks was symptomatic and got back on to air force one, that donald trump got on marine one after a known exposure to miss hicks, is that these helicopters and airplanes don't fly themselves. they're flown by some of the most honorable and patriotic public servants.

and so far, more than a handful of them have been exposed to the coronavirus now. >> and as you pointed out earlier this afternoon, these are not terribly large airframes. when you get inside, there is a large swivel captain's chair with the presidential seal above it, designated for the president. you know well the confines on the inside of these aircraft. they're well appointed. they're not enormous. they can seat comfortably oh, i would say, correct me here, six to eight people. there are snacks and beverages. they are insulated for noise. it's a nice ride if you can get it. but it is the definition of an enclosed space. >> it is. and, you know, mike schmidt is with us. he's reported overnight about a series of outbreaks at the

secret service, but you think about the secret service, there's not a second secret service. of course, there are agents that can come in and join the protective ranks if people around the president fall ill. but, there's not an infinite number of people to fly marine one or an infinite number of people to fly air force one. and so when you hear dr. hotez talking about how this is a serious national security crisis, potentially, for the country, it's because there are not as many sort of reinforcements as one might think. there are a few people who can do these things. as i said, when marine one was landing, there's always an extra one in the air, there's never just one flying. but brian, i'm struck by, one, the truly destabilizing nature of having a president who's now sick with covid. and two, the fact that we don't have a backup executive branch of government. >> that's absolutely right.

and we've had -- we have to keep having this forthright conversation. here we are in 2020 and as hard as it is to believe, nicole, we have reason to doubt the medical statements that come out of the white house. we have litigated the case of admiral ronny jackson, who had that ebullieebullient, exuberan medical briefing that no one could believe about the president, his health, his vital signs, his test results. we had the, as mike schmidt writes about, the yet-unexplained weekend morning trip to walter reed. as we pointed out last night, the first time most americans became aware of the sitting surgeon general of the united states, his first real television appearance at the dawn of coronavirus was to talk about the president's stamina and virility. that was quickly followed by the

admonition that we don't all need to be wearing masks. so this is what happens when there's a chipping away of institutions, of the truth and matters of public record that we've become used to with past presidents. will be going over to the president's suite at walter reed where depending on how old you are, you remember black and white photos of numerous past presidents, sadly, it is where dwight david eisenhower was treated multiple times and eventually died. we trace it back to lbj, richard nixon, his phlebitis, betty ford was there in the family wing they maintained at walter reed. ronald reagan recovering from his gunshot wounds and cancer surgery and on and on.

it is where we treat our presidents and we're used to forth right briefings on our presidents and i think we have cause to view these statements thus far with skepticism. >> i think that's right. and i think a trump ally today said to me that this punctures the fantasy that he was trying to project. if you give the most generous excuse for that, i guess it will be trying to will away a terrible pandemic. the fantasy has been punctured. covid is not going away. covid does not discriminate. covid cannot be prevented by a test. it can simply be identified by a test and identified it has been at the highest levels of the united states government. to your point about not telling the truth, i think the "washington post" lie tracker has him at 25,000 plus.

including tuesday night around his response to covid. so i think it was a trump adviser who made the political points before i even asked. if you look at the reality that most people are facing, most people's lives, in one way or another, for some, tragically, if they've lost loved ones, dealing with someone who is sick weeks and weeks after a diagnosis. a lot of people didn't have the luxury of living in that fantasy world where it wasn't a pandemic and now sadly does the president. >> over t200,000 are missing a loved one because of what can be called an out of control pandemic loosed across our country. and the presidential historian michael beschloss has become available to us. and not to add any importance or gravity or urgency to this

already important and urgent matter, talk for a bit about our presidents and the presidential suite at the walter reed. >> well, as you mentioned quite rightly, what used to be walter reed army hospital, a little bit far from here, in washington, d.c., and now what was once bethesda naval hospital, and that was called, of course, walter reed national medical center. a long history with presidents. 1937, franklin roosevelt actually designed what is now walter reed. he wanted that big tall tower to resemble the nebraska state capitol, and roosevelt, who was an amateur architect, actually chose the site that the building now stands on. 1949. james forestal. the first secretary of defense that had a nervous breakdown over the stress of being secretary of defense at the time of the cold war. he leaped out of a high window

to his death. as you were mentioning, lyndon johnson, ronald reagan, other presidents have come here for surgery. john kennedy was autopsied here on the night of his assassination, 1963. and one really interesting political moment, in 1973, under the pressure of the watergate scandal, richard nixon came down with a case of viral pneumonia. he was taken from the white house to what was then bethesda naval hospital, now walter reed. while he was there recovering, he got the news that his secret white house taping system had been revealed to the public and he had to decide what to do. destroy the tapes or not. >> michael beschloss, i've been wondering about how a public processes a sick president. the closest i came to george bush's health was after a

coldoscopy. it is a violation of your privacy and you're facing these medical details. there was nothing other than being under anesthesia and vice president cheney being in charge, there was never anything wrong with him. how does the public deal with fear about the health of a president? >> they fear the health of a president the less information they get. a wise president, a wise white house staff, as you're talking about, nicole, knows if you give more information rather than less, there will be less room or, less jitteriness. 1956 is the closest thing we've seen to this when dwight eisenhower that summer suffered a case of iliatis. he needed surgery. it was only about five months before he would run for re-election. the same as donald trump.

not quite as close. but eisenhower told his staff and doctors, tell the reporters, tell americans everything. if anything, err on the side of telling them too much. and literally, they announced when the president had a bowel movement. you had not seen such openness before. but eisenhower knew that with everyone in america, our safety all depends on the alertness and the health of a president. that's what a president does. same thing with our children and our friends. we need to be reassured that he really is 100%. and the other thing is when you have a president running for re-election, as eisenhower was in '56, donald trump is in 2020, he has to make the case that he is healthy enough to serve another four years. and you don't make that case if you have something like what we saw this morning, mark meadows not even bothering to wear a mask, which astounded and

shocked me, getting a very cursory briefing, a little more information this afternoon. but on the scale of presidents getting more information, rather than less, what we have learned thus far about donald trump's illness and his treatment is one of the smaller examples of briefing that we've seen in recent history. >> we're still looking at this live picture of marine one. it is unclear what we will see as brian indicated. there are some structural limitations to this shot. it is possible that the president will get on board and we won't see that live. whatever pictures we're able to obtain, we will certainly bring them to you. brian, i have been struck by the fact that so little contact tracing has been shared.

we have the reporting about the positive test for the president of notre dame at the ceremony last saturday. we have the report about the president's senior adviser, hope hicks, who was in the room for debate prep, who traveled to the debate, who traveled with the president. but we don't have a ton of information about everyone being contacted, or everyone being tested, or everyone's results being made public. inside every person that may have been in the rose garden ceremony for that announcement of judge barrett, there is a whole community around that individual. so what do you make of where we stand with one of the biggest medical mysteries having at its epicenter the president of the united states? >> well, i think the role for folks like you and me is to continue to push back, to renormalize, to reset the compass to true north.

despite this kind of frog boiling experiment we have been through these last four years. this is now the public business. this is now a public matter. this involves elected representatives, the very top of our government. last night when i got off the air in the tiny community of people who track aviation around the world. there was one user on social media who believing that earlier in the evening, we were looking at a positive diagnosis for the president, and based on his own theory that they were kind of putting off the announcement as it was, it came after 1:00 a.m. east coast time. it was already tracking what he believed to be early kind of military feeler flights out over our east coast, just because when there is a kind of warble at the top of our government, it

is reflected in our military readiness. it goes out domestically and overseas. this is playing with house money. this is our country. the structure in the background is what was commonly referred to as the people's house. we've just been through a republican convention where that lawn, the south lawn, beneath the truman balcony, was used for a political purpose. another explosion of norms. and the explosion of norms we have to guard against that was kind of benign before this is as i mentioned. medical statements that may not be entirely truthful. it is all new territory for all of us. and i know given your experience in government, the president you work for, it is just unfathomable that there would be one internal truth and