harris was the second most watched vice presidential debate in history. i would not have expected that. i clearly am a dummy. look, you'll see the pattern immediately. you'll see why i should have seen this coming. you'll see why i should have seen this coming. these are the top five most-watched vice presidential debates in history. number five was 1992. that was al gore versus dan quayle versus ross perot's running mate, admiral james stockdale. 2012 was fourth place, paul ryan versus joe biden. but look at the top three. turns out, america likes women. who'd have thunk? we at least like women on tv competing against men to be vice president of the united states. the top three most-watched vice presidential debates of all time are the three with women in them. 1984, geraldine ferraro versus george bush. 2008, joe biden versus sarah palin, and last night turns out

to have been the second most-watched vice presidential debate in history, after biden/palin in '08. the top three most-watched vice presidential debates were the ones with women in them. i would not have expected that. fascinating to see. this was the end of the debate last night, which might end up being the definitive sort of visual of the night. i know the fly is in competition, but this moment, right? senator harris and her husband on stage, vice president pence and his wife on the stage. vice president pence's wife breaking the debate rules by not wearing a mask when she joined her husband on stage at the end of the debate, the only people in that room who are cleared by the debate commission to not be wearing masks were the moderator and the two candidates, but once again, we get the family of the candidate from the trump/pence ticket defying those rules and taking off a mask, and you deal with it. i mentioned in our coverage of the debate last night the

bizarre-seeming prospect that the vice presidential debate this year might actually be the last debate before the election. i'll tell you, to be honest, i raised that last night during our coverage sort of to get it on the record. i was a little conflicted about raising it because i felt like it was such a distant prospect that there might not be other debates, but sure enough, we all wake up to news this morning that last night's debate really might have been it for this election. the commission on presidential debates announcing of their own accord that they feel the only way they could hold the next debate safely would be to hold it virtually with each candidate at a remote location. incidentally, the way nixon and kennedy did it back in 1960. president trump immediately said he wouldn't do that. he wouldn't participate in such a debate. his campaign manager, who's also recently been diagnosed with covid-19, the president's campaign manager then releasing a statement saying that the president wouldn't have time for a remotely held debate like that. so, maybe the president would do a rally instead.

which is a weird argument. but you know, i mean, what does the president want to do right now to demonstrate, you know, his approach to covid, right? he's going to go back to maskless rallies? now? right? right after he's just out of the hospital with his own covid diagnosis? maybe he'll just do big make-out sessions with as many of his voters as he can cram into a tiny, unventilated room, where they could have, like trump/pence campaign sneeze in my face competitions. a contest to see who can cough droplets into the most strangers' mouths in one go, extra points if you can document that anybody you sprinkle your saliva onto is over the age of 65 or perhaps immunosuppressed. i mean, what else are they going to do? he says he won't debate if they have to debate safely and remotely. instead, he's going to do a rally. and he doesn't wear a mask. as it stands now, the president has pulled out of the next debate, which is scheduled for a week from tonight. the commission on presidential

debates tells nbc news tonight that the commission is sending staff to miami anyway, just in case that debate ends up being back on at the last moment, but they are assuming that it's not happening. the debate commission also says they are making tentative plans to go ahead with the third and final presidential debate, which is scheduled for two weeks from tonight in nashville. but again, who knows? if they're not going to do the next one, are they going to do the one after that? last night really might have been it. this year might be the year that we get one totally cacophonous impenetrable presidential debate and whatever it was last night and that will be it. we will let you know more over the course of the night as we learn more. this appears to be still a developing story. speaking of developing news, there appears to be something hinky going on with vice president pence's schedule. he was due to fly to his home state of indiana tomorrow to vote, to cast an in-person, early ballot for the election. the white house abruptly

canceled that plan without saying why. vice president pence will not be flying to indiana tomorrow, and he, instead, is flying back to d.c., and we don't know why, and they won't say why. and that, of course, led to a lot of skipped heartbeats and worries that it might mean that both the president and vice president were both now infected with covid? but the vice president's press secretary released a statement amid all that concern saying, "nobody's sick. there's no positive tests." good to know. also still unsettling to see that kind of a statement. but it's just been that kind of a day. just another day when the news has been nuts. i keep assuming, naively, that things will be less nuts with one day. i'm not sure things are going to be any less nuts between now and november 3rd. we're going to speak tonight here on this show with the attorney general for the state of michigan. she's going to be here live in just a moment. today, federal and state authorities announced dozens of felony charges against 13 armed,

far-right alleged conspirators who, among other things, are accused of plotting the kidnapping and potential assassination of michigan's democratic governor, gretchen whitmer. now, at least some of these guys who were arrested and charged today appear to be associated with a strand of the boogaloo movement, the far-right trump-era, weird terrorist movement that not only desires but seeks to bring about a second civil war in the united states, a convulsive race war to basically destroy this country. nice folks. you will remember the armed right-wing groups that stormed into the michigan state capitol in may, threatening, among other things, to lynch governor whitmer at the time over restrictions designed to slow the spread of covid in that state. that march on the michigan state capitol was not the only -- was not only the occasion for president trump doing his "liberate michigan" thing at the time, encouraging those protests. when it came to the people with

guns storming into that state capitol, president trump went out of his way to call them, quote, very good people. he said at the time in may about the people with rifles storming into the michigan state legislature, "the governor of michigan," he said, "should give a little. these are very good people. see them. talk to them," he said, "make a deal." that's what the president said in may about those armed protesters who, among other things, were threatening to lynch the governor. state and federal law enforcement now say that within weeks of that encouragement from the president, armed right-wing groups in michigan were actually casing the governor's home, planning to buy explosives, practicing how to build ieds, and plotting their escape routes for how they'd get away from the cops, either after killing governor whitmer or with her in tow as their kidnapping victim. so, again, we'll have the michigan attorney general joining us momentarily. we are also watching tonight the strange, and we expect to be

developing story of this guy, who has now been hit with federal felony charges. his name is elliott brody. he had a senior role in the trump inaugural committee. he was a major donor to the trump campaign. not long after trump's inauguration, the republican party in this since-deleted press release announced its new national finance team under the leadership of steve wynn, who since had to give up his casino empire and a huge sexual harassment scandal. the party brought on -- they announced in that press release -- they brought on as deputy finance chairman, a real nice group of guys -- michael cohen, the president's former personal lawyer who would soon go on to multiple felony convictions and a substantial jail term before becoming one of the president's most vo siff rouse critics himself. they also in the same press release announced elliott broidy as a national deputy chairman of the republican party. he is also, as of today, now charged with multiple felonies.

they also -- the other guy they announced in that press release that day was louis dejoy, the guy who president trump put in charge of messing up the post office, right as covid made us all change to vote by mail for this election. steve wynn, elliott broidy, michael cohen, and louis dejoy, all in the same press release, all announced as having these major, new roles in the national republican party, all on the same day. couldn't happen to a nicer bunch. i will just reiterate that the national republican party has since deleted that press release from their website, but it's a real thing. elliott broidy has now, as i mentioned, been charged with multiple felonies. he's charged, basically, with taking money illegally from foreign sources to get the justice department to drop certain prosecutions. but elliott broidy is tied up in a whole bunch of stuff. all the scandals involving the trump inaugural, he was a senior figure in the trump inaugural. broidy, you may also remember, was embroiled in a hush money

payment scheme that was almost literally a carbon copy of the one president trump got embroiled in with porn star stormy daniels. i mean, literally, it was a copied thing. it does seem like the lawyers involved in both the trump hush money payoff and the broidy hush money payoff, the lawyers may have used the exact same documents and the exact same fake names for both broidy and trump's hush money deals. elliott broidy was also the key link to the trump campaign and the trump administration for convicted pedophile george nader, who for some reason had tons of access to the highest levels of the trump campaign, the trump transition, and even the trump administration. george nader is now in jail, probably forever, on child pornography and child sex trafficking charges. his business arrangements with elliott broidy, with this guy from the rnc and the trump inaugural committee, the business relationships between george nader and elliott broidy

remain murky. but with broidy now himself facing federal felony charges, maybe more will come out about that, too. all in the lead-up to the president's re-election effort. elliott broidy is expected to plead guilty, at least that's what these court filings look like today. we shall see. tonight, just before we got on the air, a federal judge in ohio told the republican secretary of state there that ohio has to put back the drop boxes for people to drop off their absentee ballots. this is another one of those places where republicans are trying to make it as hard as possible to vote. specifically, ohio republicans have been trying to pull the same thing that texas republicans are doing right now, which is that they've tried to make it so there's only one place in every county where people can drop off their ballots. instead of letting local election boards in the county decide what's best and most convenient for their voters, both in texas and in ohio, republican state officials there have said, no, no, no, there's only one place in each county where you can drop these things

off, no matter how big the county is and no matter how inconvenient that is. frank larose is the republican secretary of state in ohio. he had conjured this new rule for this election by which he said you could only have a drop box at the county elections board, and that's it. there could be no other place you could drop off any ballots in any one county. we don't know where he conjured that rule from. he said he was bound to establish that new rule for this election out of somewhere? tonight a federal judge told him to knock it off and said, actually, in ohio, counties can make their own decisions about where drop-off boxes go, how many there are, and where they will be. we'll see how far republicans try to fight that, to take more of the drop boxes away, to make it harder for you to have a place to drop your ballot off. tonight, in the more equally matched swing state of wisconsin, republicans are doing better in their efforts to make voting as unnecessarily difficult as possible. a federal appeals court has now sided with wisconsin republicans

who have said they don't want the state to count any ballots that arrive in the mail after election day. now, once you have mailed your ballot, it's the post office's responsibility to get it delivered. you can't control how quickly it gets delivered. and with louis dejoy in charge of the postal service, there's a lot of reason to worry about how long the post office will take. the previous plan in wisconsin is that your vote, yes, had to be post marked by election day, but they keep receiving them and counting them up to six days after the election. now that has been blocked. wisconsin republicans say if your vote isn't there by election day, they don't want to count it. so far, a federal appeals court siding with republicans in wisconsin. wisconsin republicans have also, for now, at least, succeeded in their efforts to make it harder to adequately staff polling places for the election. if you've been thinking about volunteering to be a poll worker, if you have been thinking that this year you might want to volunteer to help out at a polling place on election day to help make sure the election runs smoothly, i

will tell you right now, wisconsin is one of the states that really needs more poll workers right now, especially because wisconsin republicans are having some success in their fight to make it harder to ensure that all parts of the state are going to have enough volunteers on election day. so, if you were within the sound of my voice out there in wisconsin, if you are in good health and you feel up to it and you can spare the time, your state needs you. find out if you can be a polling place volunteer. just google poll worker volunteer wisconsin. it takes you right to the landing page to do it. and that actually works in any state, by the way. if you're thinking about volunteering to be a poll worker, now's the time to do it. and it's easy to find out in any state. just google "poll worker volunteer" and then the name of your state. it works. but in wisconsin, in particular, they really need poll workers right now, particularly because of what republicans are doing to try to make it harder to get poll workers at every voting location. i mean, it is quite a thing what republicans are doing there

right now, right? trying to undo all of the efforts to make the election run smoothly, to make it possible for people to vote, despite the covid risk. i mean, wisconsin is in crisis right now in covid. wisconsin is top three in the country right now in terms of how bad their covid situation is. it's really bad in north dakota. it's really bad in south dakota. it's bad in a number of other states, but wisconsin is setting, like, records almost daily now for new cases for the number of new covid patients hospitalized, for new deaths from covid. the governor of wisconsin just announced that a new field hospital has to be opened at the state fairgrounds because so many wisconsin hospitals are hitting capacity and getting overwhelmed. we are hearing stories now from wisconsin and from the dakotas, as i mentioned, about covid patients being turned away. doctors spending hours on the phone trying to find a hospital that will take a transferred covid patient, because everybody's full and there's nowhere to put anyone. this was the news today in the

"grand forks herald." "bismarck, dickinson and minot, north dakota, are all managing heavy patient volumes." as of yesterday, there are a grand total of three icu beds available in all of bismarck, north dakota. that's the state capital. over 70,000 people live there. bismarck, north dakota, right now has three icu beds total for the whole city. in the college town of dickinson, north dakota, there is one icu bed left in the whole city of dickinson. in minot, home to more than 40,000 people, fourth largest city in the state, there's only two icu beds left as of yesterday. the "associated press" has this report out of south dakota today. one local tribal health department in south dakota trying to get a patient who was ill with covid-19 moved to a hospital that could better take care of that patient, a hospital that was more capable. that local health authority in south dakota reports that they called 14 different hospitals in south dakota to try to find a place to transfer their patient. all 14 of the hospitals they

contacted said they could not take a new covid patient. and in fact, they were all trying to divert their own new covid patients to other facilities themselves. 14 hospitals. no, we can't take your patient, we're looking for places to move our patients, too. that local health department in south dakota serving the cheyenne river sioux tribe, they eventually found one hospital that could take their patient, but in order to find a place for their patient, they had to go across state lines into minnesota. the country is heading into what looks like another peak in terms of cases. in 39 states, case numbers are going up right now. meanwhile, federally, the secretary of health and human services this week took a meeting with the flat earth society of covid. health secretary alex azar this week taking a meeting with three of the leading proponents of the idea that everyone should get

it, that we should aim for herd immunity. masks are a bad idea. social distancing is a bad idea. closing anything is a bad idea. get everybody together. the more infection we all get, the better. that will give us herd immunity. and never mind that it might kill millions of americans along the way. these guys really are the flat earth society of covid-19. but the secretary of health and human services met with these people on monday, touting that he was meeting with them. these are the people promoting mass infection of as many americans as possible. health secretary tweeted this after that meeting -- "we heard strong reinforcement of the trump administration's strategy." oh, good! the president is positive and has been hospitalized for it within the past week. the president is now refusing to do the next presidential debate, but he is threatening to start up his mask-free rallies again. the president's behavior and

statements are erratic enough right now, even for him, that the speaker of the house is talking openly about the 25th amendment to the constitution and the process by which the president might be declared unfit. the president demanded in a rambling, nearly hour-long cable news call-in today that president obama must be arrested and charged and vice president biden must be arrested and charged, and vice president biden shouldn't be allowed to run for president against him. he also said hillary clinton must be arrested and indicted, too. the president also telling his interviewer today that he feels fantastic. maybe he does. he also said that as far as he's concerned, he's not contagious. he can tell. he doesn't think he is. i don't think i'm contagious at all. and now he says he will hit the campaign trail again and start traveling. is he contagious, though?

why do you think it is that the white house won't say when the president got infected, right? they've told us when they say he got his positive test, which was thursday night, a week ago. but they won't say when he got his last negative test before that, so we don't know if when they tested him on thursday he had already been positive for a week or two weeks or three weeks or a day or five hours. we don't know. they won't say when his last test, his negative test was before that, which would tell us how long the president has likely been infected. why won't they tell us about his previous negative test results? i mean, they used to tell us about his negative test results all the time. i feel like this has kind of gone down the memory hole a little bit, but look, you can find these headlines. march 14th. trump tested negative for the coronavirus, white house physician says. and then in april, april 2nd, trump again tests negative for coronavirus, white house says. and then in may, may 7th, trump

and pence test negative. and then later in may, trump on his latest coronavirus test -- "i tested positively toward negative." which is president trump speak for i tested negative. the white house has been touting the president's negative covid test results all along. they never considered it secret. they never before considered that information to be private or some kind of, you know, hipaa violation to announce that the president tested negative for coronavirus. they used to freely broadcast that information over a period of weeks and months. hey, he got a negative test. he goss another negative test on this day. he tested negative again. they used to tell us that all the time, but now they won't say. why do you think they won't say? >> doctor, what was the date of the president's last negative test? >> i'm not going to get into all the testing going back. >> he tested on tuesday before he went to the debate? and was he tested on thursday

morning before he went to new jersey? >> yeah, i'm not going to give you a detailed readout with time stamps every time the president's tested. >> do you remember when he got his last negative test? >> i don't want to go backwards. >> what was his last negative test and what was his viral load? >> everyone wants that. >> we don't know when his last negative test was. will we? >> well, we don't normally get into the testing protocol for the president. >> obviously, you know when he last tested negative. why won't -- >> i don't know when he last tested negative and i've answered thisnumber of times. >> why won't the white house say when he last tested negative? >> look, we've addressed this. we're not asking to go back through a bunch of records and look backwards. >> when was president trump last tested, before his positive result? >> alicei yalyson, you'll have the president's team that. >> when was the president's last negative test? >> i can't reveal that at this time. the doctors would like to keep that private. my understanding is it's his private medical history. my understanding is we're

keeping it private at this time. >> you never kept it private before. it was never before kept part of his private medical history. they will not say. they were happy to sea before when he tested negative. week after week, month after month, they would tell us, now they won't say. now it's a secret. how long do you think he's been infected for? when do you think he actually got his last negative test? i mean, they're telling us he tested positive a week ago tonight. in the days before that, he had a rally in minnesota, he had a fund-raiser in new jersey, he had a debate with joe biden in ohio, he did a huge event at the rose garden where no one wore masks and no one socially distanced. he did an event with gold star families, families who lost a loved one in the u.s. military. he did an event with gold star families inside at the white house. nobody wore masks. no one social distanced. he did all of those things in the days before the white house tells us he tested positive. did the president bother to get tested before he did any of

those events? any of those no-mask, no-social distancing events? did he? what are the odds the president was positive for all of those things? it's not an issue of small concern, in part because the president is now blaming the gold star families at the white house at that sunday event before he tested positive. he's blaming the gold star families for having infected him. which is astonishing in its own right, right? but why is he saying that? did the president himself test negative before that event? isn't it possible that he was the one who was positive at that event and that he was the one potentially spreading it to them? i mean, the president's health isn't supposed to be a secret. on the issue of him testing negative for covid, even the trump white house has not treated that before as a secret. the bizarre secrecy about the timing of the president's infection means that what they are keeping secret from us all now is information about the president as an agent of

infection himself, while he is actively, publicly blaming military families, blaming the families of america's fallen servicemen and servicewomen for having infected him. yeah, they probably gave it to him. put up or shut up. you're going to make an allegation like that, prove it. when did he get his last test? why are military families the first ones you think to blame? i didn't think things would just keep getting worse with him every day. i should have known better. you are going to want to see who our next guest is on this subject. trust me. sit tight. subject. trust me sit tight.

it's totally normal to have constipation with belly pain, straining, and bloating, again and again. no way. more exercise. more water. and more fiber is the only way to manage it. is it? maybe you think... it's occasional constipation. maybe it's not. it could be a chronic medical condition called ibs-c, and time to say yesss! to linzess. linzess works differently than laxatives. it helps relieve belly pain and lets you have more frequent and complete bowel movements. do not give linzess to children less than six and it should not be given to children six to less than 18, it may harm them. do not take linzess if you have a bowel blockage. get immediate help if you develop unusual or severe stomach pain, especially with bloody or black stools. the most common side effect is diarrhea, sometimes severe. if it's severe, stop taking linzess and call your doctor right away. other side effects include gas, stomach area pain, and swelling.

change your thinking to ibs-c. if your constipation and belly pain keeps coming back, tell your doctor and say yesss! to linzess. joining us tonight for the interview is kesser khan, a gold star father whose son died protecting his unit in iraq. he paid tribute to his son at

the 2016 national democratic convention, at one point holding up his pocket constitution and challenging then-candidate donald trump to read it. mr. trump at the time was calling for a ban on muslims entering the country. the president responded by attacking mr. khan and his family pretty mercilessly in the days after that event. thank you very much for being here today. it's a real honor having you here with us. >> thank you, rachel. thank you for being voice of democracy. thank you. for many years, you have brightened our hearts and our homes. thank you. >> oh, that's -- i'm very moved by you saying that, sir. let me just ask you about the preside president's remarks. i feel like part of what bothered the president so much about you and the way you've spoken about your son's sacrifice and about the way that you've spoken about the president is that i feel like you do actually have some insight into how the president thinks, and i think that's what bothers him about you.

what is your take on why the president would have blamed gold star families, of all people, for his covid infection? >> rachel, donald trump does not realize, has no comprehension or understanding of what sacrifice and service is. five-time deferment, calling autocrats and authoritarians his friends. he has no understanding of what service is, what service to nation, service to country is. he is a reckless president. 210,000 deaths because of his lies and because of his secrecy, holding the information from us. on 26th of september, there was a white house event that nobody took any precaution. on 27th, they invited gold star

families to the white house. he does not understand that this nation respects gold star families the most. these gold star families have done something for this nation, for this country that donald trump cannot imagine, cannot comprehend. he is handicapped of that understanding. it is that event in the rose garden that has spread the coronavirus among his mute enablers, and now so many military leaders, that it has become a matter of national security. it is for that reason that he is trying to find to point fingers, to blame somewhere. but this nation has understood.

this nation knows him well now that he has a habit. he is operating on putin's playbook, to blame anyone but himself for this coronavirus, for its spread, and he will not stop up until we all, entire america, vote him out. he sees that. he foresees his defeat. his enablers see that. and that is why they are trying to blame anyone and everyone. but we all need to get out as america needs to get out and vote. that is the power that we all have, to vote him out so that he will have no room to object, no room to call the election fraud. guess who is at this time cherishing and enjoying this moment that donald trump has caused in our nation? it's our adversaries. he is playing their games, but

we have all understood. this nation has understood. we are going to vote him out and vote his enablers, vote his mute enablers out. >> mr. khan, you used that phrase twice, the mute enablers of this president. i think that one of the things that we have found flummoxing as a nation and as citizens watching the president's behavior is that while we might be able to wrap our heads around why the president would attack war heroes, why the president would attack people who have been wounded or killed in service of their country, as your son was, while we might be able to imagine something about the president's own pathology in repeatedly doing that, we don't expect it of the political class more broadly. we don't expect it from more than an individual who we might see as part of there just being something wrong with them. and the president's mute enablers, as you describe them, are now trying to clean up after

the president blaming his covid infection on gold star families, seemingly without any evidence at all. and i have to ask if that makes it worse for you, that it's not just an attack from the president, that it's everybody in the administration who's trying to make it okay, that he keeps carrying out attacks like this against you and other people who have gone through the kinds of sacrifices that you have, these unimaginable sacrifices for the country? >> well, i can only say this, that they all see that this titanic is sinking, and they are trying to jump out of it as soon as they can, but they are afraid. they are afraid of their careers, their livelihood, their families. one thing i noticed in your broadcast -- i must comment on that, because that is one of my area of legal practice, and that is hipaa privacy.

these doctors, they better watch their white coats and their privilege to practice. i want them to hear before they utter the word hipaa privacy, trying to keep this information secret, this information away from public. there is a public health concern exception to hipaa, where if your patient has become a public concern, public health concern, you must disclose the details so that public health concerns could be addressed. i hope his doctor is listening. i hope he will read public health concern exception to hipaa privacy rule. >> mr. khizr khan, gold star father, his son died fighting for our country in iraq. thank you for being here. you don't have to do this. it means the world, though. >> thank you. we've got much more ahead here tonight.

as i mentioned, i will be talking live in just a moment with michigan's attorney general. again, 13 conspirators accused today in michigan by state and federal authorities in a plot to kidnap and potentially assassinate the democratic governor of the great state of michigan. that state's attorney general joins us live next. stay with us. tate's attorney ge joins us live next stay with us and now your co-pilot. still a father. but now a friend. still an electric car. just more electrifying. still a night out. but everything fits in. still hard work. just a little easier. still a legend. just more legendary. chevrolet. making life's journey, just better.

can it help keep me asleep?r's fall sale on the sleep number 360 smart bed. making life's journey, absolutely, it intelligently senses your movements and automatically adjusts to keep you both comfortable. and now, the queen sleep number 360 c4 smart bed is only $1,399.

plus 0% interest for 36 months. only for a limited time. can take you to deep, depressive lows. or, give you unusually high energy, even when depressed. overwhelmed by bipolar i? ask about vraylar. some medicines only treat the lows or highs. vraylar effectively treats depression, acute manic and mixed episodes of bipolar i in adults. full-spectrum relief for all bipolar i symptoms, with just one pill, once a day. elderly patients with dementia-related psychosis have an increased risk of death or stroke. call your doctor about unusual changes in behavior or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. report fever, stiff muscles, or confusion,

which may mean a life-threatening reaction, or uncontrollable muscle movements, which may be permanent. side effects may not appear for several weeks. high cholesterol and weight gain, high blood sugar, which can lead to coma or death, may occur. movement dysfunction, sleepiness, and stomach issues are common side effects. when bipolar i overwhelms, vraylar helps smooth the ups and downs. good afternoon. earlier today, attorney general dana nessel was joined by officials from the department of justice and the fbi to announce state and federal charges against 13 members of two militia groups who were preparing to kidnap and possibly kill me. when i put my hand on the bible and took the oath of office 22 months ago, i knew this job would be hard. but i'll be honest, i never could have imagined anything like this. >> i'll be honest, i never could have imagined anything like this. imagine having to do your press

conference and say, they were arrested for planning to possibly kill me. governor gretchen whitmer today. today, federal and state authorities announced charges against 13 men, saying at least six of them had hatched a detailed plan to kidnap michigan's democratic governor, gretchen whitmer, and potentially kill her. those six men were arrested on federal conspiracy to kidnap charges last night. the criminal complaint against them has remarkable detail. you probably saw headlines about this today. but you should know what's in the charging documents here today. they document how one of the alleged ring leaders said he, quote, needed 200 men to storm the capitol building in lansing, michigan, and take hostages, including the governor. that suspect said he planned to try the governor for treason. according to the criminal complaint, the group wanted to execute their plan before the election next month. the court documents show that during a meeting in july, the suspects discussed attacking a michigan state police facility. one of the men also suggested shooting up the governor's

vacation home in michigan. on another occasion, one of the suspects is to have said that their best opportunity to abduct governor whitmer when she was arriving at or leaving either her personal vacation home or the governor's official residence. that suspect described it as a, quote, snatch-and-grab, man. grab the bleeping governor. that suspect, according to the complaint, later said that after kidnapping governor whitmer, the group would move her to a secure location in wisconsin for what they called, quote, trial. the charging documents show that several members of the group participated in firearms training and attempting to make and test improvised explosive devices. they also twice physically went out and surveilled governor whitmer's vacation home as recently as last month. on one of those occasions, one of the men suggested the demolition of a nearby bridge in order to hinder a police response, should they succeed in kidnapping or killing the governor.

investigators say that the group's meetings were conducted in the basement of a vacuum store in grand rapids, a store owned by one of the suspects they allegedly accessed those meetings through a trap door hidden under a rug on the main floor of the shop. despite that, despite the fact that the men communicated using encrypted apps, the group's every move was being followed by undercover fbi informants, which is why authorities were able to present such stunning, detailed evidence, including direct quotes earlier today. in addition to the six men booked on federal charges, the state of michigan also charged seven other men with providing material support for terrorist activities, being members of a gang, and using firearms while committing felonies. i think there was a perception today that these might have been overlapping federal and state charges for the same group of men. this is six federal charges -- six men charged federally and seven different men charged at the state level. the men charged at the state level are all said to be linked to an armed right-wing group

that ridiculously calls themselves the wolverine watchmen. fantasize much? today the state's attorney general, dana nessel, accused them of targeting law enforcement by calling on members to publicize the home addresses of officers. she says they sought to instigate a second civil war. they had engaged in planning and training in order to potentially kidnap the governor and other government officials. sobering isn't the right word here, but this is at least a very sobering story, to see these parallel federal and state charges for two different groups of large numbers of people who are apparently co-conspiraciors, or allegedly, co-conspirators in this plot. it's a remarkable story and the michigan state attorney general dana nessel will be here next to talk about it. l dana nessel will be here next to talk about it.

the individuals in custody are suspected to have attempted

to identify the home addresses of law enforcement officers in order to target them, made threats of violence, intended to instagate a civil war, and engaged in planning and training for an operation to attack the capitol building of michigan and to kidnap government officials, including the governor of michigan. >> michigan's state attorney general dana nessel today, joining federal law enforcement officials in what appears to have been a remarkable joint operation that has resulted in the arrest of and charges against 13 alleged armed far-right conspirators who officials describe as, basically, trying to bring about a second civil war, in part via a plot to kidnap democratic michigan governor gretchen whitmer. joining us now is dana nessel, attorney general for the state of michigan. madam attorney general, i did not expect to be speaking to you again this soon and on this topic, but this is just a remarkable operation that you

and your colleagues unveiled today. thank you for making time to be here. >> yeah, thanks for having me again. >> can you tell us about the joint nature of this operation? it's been an interesting thing to follow over the course of the day, as we sort of teased out what this really is. it's so scary on the front, on its face. but we've got six people charged federally. we've got seven people charged at the state level. it appears to be that these groups were engaged in sort of separate but related activities? >> well, these groups were working together, but you know, for some of them, federal charges seemed more appropriate, and for others, state charges were actually more suitable. but i do want to really reach out and thank the federal authorities, thank the fbi, and also the u.s. attorneys of both the eastern and western districts of michigan who worked in conjunction with our office,

the department of the attorney general. so, this really was a joint effort, both by the state and the federal government to work together in this effort. but unfortunately, i wish i could say that our work is done. there remain many groups out there. there remain many individuals who are domestic terrorists, and it's a source of great concern in our state, but it's not just a michigan problem. at this juncture, it's an american problem. >> can you tell our viewers if there are links between any of the people who have been charged and that very high-profile set of demonstrations we saw in michigan earlier this year, where armed right-wing groups, among other things, stormed the legislature in order to make their displeasure known about efforts to slow coronavirus in the state? they did things that, you know, threatened -- they threatened to lynch the governor, at least hyperbolically, in terms of their political rhetoric at that event. are there links between those demonstrations and these individuals who are charged

today? >> i would say absolutely there are links. those individuals were there. and if you saw any of the photographs from that event, you might remember a picture that actually my state senator took where you see armed gunmen who are hovering over the state senate as they are actually in session. some of those individuals are the same people that were charged in these indictments. and that served really as a recruiting station for -- to engage membership and to recruit new members. so, absolutely, those events were crucial and pivotal in terms of them organizing and then actually having new members join their organization. >> do you believe that any of these plots were imminent? do you believe that governor whitmer was ever in real physical danger? >> yeah, i think that all of the

organizing and all of the trainings that they were doing and all of the tactical work was leading towards this event, and there was actually some mention, it seems, that there was an intention to carry out some of these plots prior to the election. so, absolutely, we believe that the governor could have been in grave danger. and as i always say, i'd rather have a poor conspiracy case than the strongest homicide case. and there was nothing more important than saving the governor's life. but that being said, i think we have a very strong case, a very compelling case, both the federal and the state cases. and you know, the activities of these individuals, you know -- at any time, they could have carried out any of these plans. they were ready. they were prepared. and obviously, we're fortunate that no lives were lost. >> michigan's state attorney

general dana nessel. madam attorney general, thank you for being here tonight. i'm sure this has been a really, really intense day. thanks for helping us understand. >> thanks for having me. >> i will say, one of the more bizarre knock-on events after these charges were announced today is that the president multiple times today has taken to twitter to attack governor whitmer of michigan. just tonight -- "governor whitmer of michigan has done a terrible job. governor whitmer, open up your state, open up your schools, open up your churches." the president attacking the governor against whom this plot was just interrupted by both state and federal law enforcement. timing, sir. we'll be right back. timing, sir. we'll be right back. beautiful. but support the leg!

when i started cobra kai, the lack of control over my business made me a little intense. but now i practice a different philosophy. quickbooks helps me get paid, manage cash flow, and run payroll. and now i'm back on top... with koala kai.

hey! more mercy. save over 30 hours a month with intuit quickbooks. the easy way to a happier business.

whoo! what a news day this has been. i love my job. i do. i absolutely love my job. i wake up every morning and am excited to look at the news to see what it is that we're going

to be covering, not next night's show. i have to admit, when i wake up and look at the news now, i'm doing it kind of like this. it's like, horror movie. i'm afraid to look directly. but that's what we do. less than a month left to the election. all right, i'll see you again tomorrow night. "way too early" with kasie hunt is up next. i think i'm going to try doing a rally on saturday night, if we have enough time to put it together. but we want to do a rally in florida -- probably in florida on saturday night. might come back and do one in pennsylvania in the following night, and it's incredible what's going on. i feel so good. >> have you had a test since your diagnosis a week ago? >> well, what we're doing is probably the test will be tomorrow, the actual test, because there's no reason to test all the time. >> exactly one week after going public with his covid diagnosis, the president says he's ready to return to the campaign trail, maybe as