it's friday. desperate times call for desperate measures. president trump wants to hit the campaign trail days after leaving the hospital following a brutal ten-day stretch that has republicans everywhere ringing their hands. the white house reopens the door on talks for a massive co-vid relief deal as pelosi pushes for a commission to assess the president's mental and physical capacity to hold the highest office in the land. zblchlkts and michigan's governor calls the president complicit after a group was arrested for conspireing to kidnap the governor.

welcome to friday. it is meet the press daily. with early voting underway, president trump is desperately trying to turn any page he can find on one of the worst ten-day stretches he's seen politically and he's seen quite a few of these. but this one has been historically bad. an ugly debate, the co-vid hospitalization and the terrible polls. all of it a reminder of our toxic politics yesterday after authorities announced a thwarted kidnapping of the democratic governor. the president appears desperate to do anything to put it behind him. a radio rally he falsely told the public there now is a cure for the coronavirus. >> we're rounding the turn on the pandemic, and i'll have something to say about that. because i'm telling you, we have a cure. more than just a therapeutic. we have a cure.

>> to be clear, no public health expert backed up the claim that there is a cure for the virus. obviously some of these therapeutics are in their early stages. might be working. but the president is referring to aen experimental treatment doctors are still not certain was what made him feel better considering he's been taking a cocktail of drugs and therapies. the president wants to hold a rally in florida as early as tomorrow. that seems to have been put off even though the public has been given no assurances that he's actually kicked his co-vid infection. the white house will not say when he last tested negative. it's not clear he tested negative following the correct protocols for the first debate. something to think about there. the trump campaign appears to be throwing all caution to the wind when it comes to the virus. yesterday donald trump junior held a packed indoor and outdoor campaign finishing his quaranti. a relief package two days after

he told them to abandon them. he's blitzed the conservative airways and tweeted videos where he down played the virus that hospitalized him. he's calling for his attorney general to indict biden a and obama. he and his spokes people have been all over the place on whether he'll debate biden or not or whether he'll muscle republicans to support a broad vo ko vid relief deal with pelosi or not. and this is the backdrop of all the president's erratic behavior. it's also a potential element of what's to come. the last ten days have been this crazy. what's the next 25 going to be like? and poll after poll the president is in dire straights politically with election day fast approaching. joining me is nbc's shannon and garrett haake is joining us.

shannon, let me start with you. it is to say that the president's sort of whiplash style -- it does feel as if he's on some sort of accelerant. the flipflip-flops. talks are on, the debate is on, the debate is off. let's take these in order here. what's the president saying on rush limbaugh that's going to spin our heads in the next ten minutes? >> well, you hit on it a little bit, we have a cure for coronavirus. he sounded like a tv telesalesman when he talks about this regeneron therapy going on and on about it and saying he's convinced that was what quote, unquote cured him. he said he entered in a pretty bad place. he's acknowledging how severe

his illness was when he went into the hospital friday and then he goes into talking about how he felt better a day later. he addressed a bit yesterday evening in this interview with hannity, he had heavy throat clearing potential maybe a suppressing a cough at several points. he hasn't had anything like that happen in this interview and he addressed it a little bit saying there's always a little bit of something left over signaling to that, and that it was maybe just sort of remains of what he had been experiencing, but earlier on friday before you could hear him audibly clearing his voice, he was talking about how he felt good. he's never felt better and his doctors saying he had no more symptoms. >> let's go to debates. where are we on that? i'm half expecting them to say today let's do a virtual town

hall. where are they right now on the debate issue? >> they have not reversed course on that despite our reporting indicating that the president's advisers really pushed him to try and change a strategy. they aren't making this argument that listen, if you do a rally you get three million viewers on fox. if you do a rally you get 60 million. the arguments were made to him. there's always a back and forth going on between the campaigns and the debate commission that we're not aware of, but the biden campaign seems very firmly in their position now that well, the president has cancelled the debates. we are moving on with our own town hall on that day. and the best we've heard from the president's side is they're considering possibly a rally on thursday as an attempt at counterprogram. that debate as of now seems to be off the table. >> and i just hallie jackson tried for about a half hour to

find out if the white house would ever provide the last time the president of the united states tested negative for the virus. i'm just asking three hours later. have they given an update on that? >> no, they have not. despite a valiant effort by my colleague hallie jackson, they have not said when the president last tested negative, and the spokesperson would not even say whether or not the president complied with the debate's requirement to have a negative test within 72 hours of the debate. that's formative to the people exposed to him had he been infectious at the time. >> they decided to use the honor system. normally that's a good idea, but don't know if honor system is a good idea in this era of american politics. let me move to the relief issue. and with that i'll go to garrett on capitol hill. the whiplash on debates was nothing compared to the whiplash

with the on again off again talks with pelosi. do they matter considering what was said today, there's no way we can pass anything in the senate before election day. >> now the talks are back on is my understanding. there's reporting the president even wants a higher number still. this has been a really difficult thing to keep track of on capitol hill. that being said, the reality is negotiations never really stopped. speak speaker pelosi has talked with treasury secretary mnuchin every day. whether they're moving forward toward anything that could come to the floor particularly before the election or they are talking just to talk remains to be seen. you alluded to mckonl's comments. he doesn't think this is going to get done at least not before the election. he said today that confirming amy coney barrett would be the number one priority of the senate and he pointed out even

if they got to a top line deal tonight, it's still a matter of time to write this bill to vet it, to bring both houses of congress back and to move it through the system. all of this most likely could only be done with a real shove from the president. there are a lot of senate republicans who don't want to spend anything like $2 trillion or even $1.5 trillion. anything in that ballpark is a problem and requires the kind of legislative sharp elbows from this president that we have just never seen. so prospects are not good. but the talks continue. >> garrett, there is another theory as to the only thing everybody agrees on is that talks continue. the theory is this. that everybody wants to get caught in talks but no one wants to be the one that blinks and says we have a deal. >> yeah. look, it's a hard ning to prove, but i think there is an element of political hot potato. we saw from from the president.

if you're saying i'm giving up on the deal, you take the political blame. even if a deal can't be reached, you can argue it's in ever party's best interest to keep trying through election day and not be the one squarely to blame for blowing this thing up. >> charlie sykes, when you look at the totality of what we're dealing with in the last ten days, you could look back at the last 24 hours, and see some of the president's behavior. in fact, let me play this one excerpt of the president with maria yesterday. it sums up, i think, his mind set right now. take a listen. >> unless bill barr indicts these people for crimes, the greatest political crime in the history of our country, then we're going to get little satisfaction unless i win and we'll just have to go, because i won't forget it. but these people should be

indicted. this was the greatest political crime in the history of our country. that includes obama and includes biden. >> so charlie, what the president is basically admitting here if you don't make a decision before the election, then it's useless. that means this is a political operation. it's not -- they're not serious about finding out if somebody did something right or wrong. the president wants a headline which is already undermining the entire investigation anyway. my guess is bill barr realizes that and why he's saying we can't put it out now. the president is always in a manic state. where is he right now? >> he's flailing right now. in a normal presidential campaign like this, the incumbent would be talking about his successes and painting a rosy picture on another four years. instead he basically -- donald trump saved the worst for last. he's going out and reinforcing all his negatives. he's lying about the coronavirus

and down playing it. he is talking about indicting his political opponents. i mean, let's not get numb to that. the president is talking about criminally charging his political opponents. he's lashing out at the governor of michigan. he's continuing to refuse to accept the results of the election. he's also not denouncing white nationalists. he's heading out on the road in a time when he's reinforcing all of his negatives. it's like trump even worse. i think this is the problem that right now he doesn't know how to get back, how to crawl back into contention in this election. so we are seeing this. we are seeing this kind of bizarre behavior, the on and off, the erratic decision making, the -- you mentioned the sort of the hyper manic state of all of this. this is not what the president i think was hoping to be doing in

the final three weeks of his reelection campaign. >> right. i think they thought joe biden would be reeling. joe biden would be reacting and in this situation. i want to read for you a quote given to the new york times this morning. alex, a republican strategist notes that this current situation, the knives come out, most politicians can handle losing a race but they don't want to be embarrassed. people who want a future in politics start looking over their shoulders and out for their own interests. it's not lost on us that we've seen mild separation whether martha mcsally can't say nice things in a debate or mcconnell says i don't go to the white house because they don't practice correct co-vid regulations. i've talked to plenty of republican strategists who say a republican on the ballot this

year, you can't win with trump or without him, but can you separate? is it too late? >> if only they had warned and people had said you're making a mistake by going all in this donald trump. they had multiple off ramps, one chance after another to distance themselves, to be guardrails to show independence and they passed ef one of them. and so right now we are really past the ratting leaving the sinking ship phase of this campaign. it's too late. they can't break with him without antagonizing the base and clearly they're joined with him at a time where they don't even know which direction he's going in from minute to minute. this is the bed they made, and for better or worse, they're stuck. >> i want to close here with you, doctor, because i want to get -- i feel like you're going to have a real on your hands.

the president is now out there without caveat, without saying there's a cure. and so you are going to have patients coming to you, doctor, and saying i want the cure the president got. what are you going to have to say to those patients? >> chuck, we face this all the time with emerging infections when we see a drug that might have promise. i will stand with the fact that i believe microantibodies will show promise, but we don't know for sure. they haven't been tested in a large group of people yet for co-vid. and so we don't know the efficacy. and it's not so much the eua itself. i think probably the fda could say they have enough evidence they're getting from both eli lilly and regeneron to say this could be good for compassionate use for cases. what's hurtful is when powerful people say this is a standard of care. and then everybody says why

would i want to be in a trial when i can get the drug the president talks about. as a society, we never get to finish the trials. we never get to finish developing the evidence base so when you put up the money into developing multiple doses of this, ensuring there's equity to access, that we're not doing it all in vain. the other part is he's saying that this drug is going to be available for free. it's going to be interesting to see how he makes it possible. the production of the doses themselves are going to be hard. the antibodies compared to other classes of therapeutics, harder to produce them. there are fewer doses available, and when they're available, they're likely to be expensive. ensuring not only what the drug is available but that people get the health care around it. they don't exist in a vacuum. you don't walk to the pharmacy and pick it up. there's hospitalization. all those are costs that to point to that as the cure is not

enough. because what you need to do is avoid the cases in the first place so someone doesn't end up in the hospital with the large bill and potentially having other side effects. >> i'm curious, now, doctor, now that we know -- we know when the president started to get these treatments. that we know. it was friday night to saturday and sunday. in some form. we know the treatments were there in that window. what does that tell you about when he got his infection? >> we've talked about this before, chuck. it's hard to know. but the fact that he took that hard turn, it's possible that he may have been sicker for earlier. the big question you asked at the top of the show is why are we not being told when he was last negative? it's not just about his health. let's stop talking about this case, but that's the period he may have exposed others. and now the oh end of the illness, we hope, he's getting better and he fits that criteria. the data shows that in

critically ill patients, they keep shedding virus that's infectious to others for a longer period of time. there's a recent study in august that says after 15 days is really when you stop seeing the risk to drop low. that's why the cdc says in critically ill patients we should probably do longer isolation. unfortunately, the president is now going out in public potentially shedding the virus. >> thank you all for getting us started. a lot of whiplash and wihirlwin. up ahead as coronavirus is spreading through the white house, it's also spreading across the country. a baseline of 45,000 new cases every day. think about that. it's much higher than where we were in june. in florida where the governor removed all restrictions, there was an indoor event held by donald trump junior. and hurricane delta is set to

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>> welcome back. word out of italy today that they topped 5,000 new cases in a single day. that was for the first time since march. here's more of the top coronavirus facts. we're averaging more than 46,000 cases a day. that's the highest since mid august and at least 33 states reporting increasing cases of coronavirus. broadway says it will stay closed through at least may of 2021, a day after the plmayor warned new york city is close to reassessing the reopening plans. the case needs to stay below

550. cases in arizona decreased by 7 5% in less than a month after masks were mandated. cases in arizona spiked by 151% in the first two weeks of june. donald trump junior held a packed indoor event in florida amid the coronavirus outbreak attendees appeared to ignore social distancing guidelines. the campaign says they followed owl of florida's health and safety guidelines. there is where we're going to start and go deeper. does florida even have any guidelines anymore? the florida governor ron desantis was in attendance. he's lifted all coronavirus restrictions in florida allowing strauch restaurants and bars and stadiums to operate at full capacity if they want to. the miami dolphins have the option to bring in all the fans.

they are choosing to keep capacity limited to 13,000 fans. others have chosen not to expand attendance. florida has reported more than 725,000 cases and 15,000 deaths. joining me now, a political reporter and host of battle ground florida edward donovan and steve contorno. evan, i want to start with the larger picture here of the governor's decision and how -- i think about where you cover, the buccaneers, are they going to fill their stadium? are people wanting no restrictions from the governor in your community? >> it's funny. we're seeing floridians respond to this more responsibly than

politicians on the state level. but even on the local levels here. in fact, this is something we've seen -- but saw since the beginning of the pandemic. steve's team did a great analysis about how when this pandemic was coming, floridians were the one who is really hunkered down. they're used to doing that when a disaster is coming. it normally takes the shape of a hurricane. but this time it's a pandemic. and so businesses, most of the places that you go around town certainly in the tampa bay area in this crucial eye for a corridor, they still have their mask mandates in effect. they're enforcing social distancing for the most part. i would say bars and restaurants hurting throughout the pandemic have largely done away with those issues, but normal businesses are still enforcing them, and i think floridians are the ones here who are responding and treating this like we are still in the midst of a pandemic which we very much are. the bucs have decided sunday not

to go to a full stadium reopening. at the moment it doesn't look like they're going to do that, but i think how we move forward, it looks like floridians are taking the reigns here. >> and they're going to have to make the decision themselves. so steve, let's bring this to the campaign. donald trump junior's event last night, did you sense that folks were obviously those that attended were comfortable being there without the restrictions. was it a packed house, or were there -- was there evidence that maybe they didn't get as many people as they thought they would? >> well, this was an outdoor event. every seat was filled. actually the setup was reminisce end of the rose garden event with chairs side by side. people taking selfies, hugging, having to have conversations at very close quarters because there was music blaring. and the only real difference was there was a parking lot of a towing company instead of the

white house lawn. and don junior when he was speaking didn't even mention his daughter's illness. it didn't come up -- father's illness. it didn't come up. it got a passing reference in a speech saying the president is fine and he wants joe biden next to him on the debate stage. across the audience, there was very few masks. it's almost as if the pandemic isn't here. as soon as you get outside of that bubble, it's very much here. >> uh-huh. evan, i know, look, the tampa media smarkt bigger than just tampa and st. pete, and we know the further inland you go, i think the more you're going to find political diversity, and ideological diversity. describe to me this tension. do you see it on the ground when it comes to folks and handling this pandemic versus the maskers and the nonmaskers, if you will?

>> 100%. in fact, at the event last night few people wearing masks. i think the other event trump junior held in the state last night in panama city may have been an indoor event. ours was outdoors and there were almost no masks but you find that culture war going on in in area. the people not wearing masks during the height of the pandemic aren't now. those who always took it seriously are still taking it seriously. i would say for the most part you still are seeing most people wear masks when they're in the environments in which they're required. outdoors, this is florida. it's still really hot here. you're not seeing a lot of masks walking around outside, but this isn't manhattan. we have the opportunity to social distance when you're walking down the sidewalk. i think it's still very much a culture war over masks. and how that's playing out, look, numbers have been down recently. they're starting to creep back

up. there are some signs that positivity rate has been slightly up over the past month. hospitalizations slightly up. but for the most part, the cases are down from their heights in may and june, but i think this is still going to be an issue between one side of the aisle and the other. >> right. and steve, go pack to sort of the role the governor is playing. down in south florida you have the republican mayor of miami dade county also running for a congressional seat. and he's trying to walk that line on co-vid and here he's got to defend decisions that you can tell he's a little uncomfortable defending. how much of the tension are sensing down the ballot among republicans in certain areas whether it's in sayre sew a or in south florida that feel as if the governor's decisions are making it more difficult for them? >> i think south florida is

definitely where you're seeing more of that, because they have really been the epicenter of our outbreak in florida, and you have a mayor in miami who had coronavirus and has been very, very active in trying to control their spread. and then like you said, the mayor of miami dade county is in a tight election. there is a lot more that i've noticed here that the republicans have been pretty much stalwarts in standing behind desantis's measure. i had a long conversation with a state rep from our area. he was hospitalized for two weeks with coronavirus. he said he still thinks that desantis is doing everything right and president trump isn't to blame for the virus coming here and he's going to vote for him. that's the mind set i'm seeing more often among the elected officials than what you're seeing in arizona with the race for mcsally's seat and also in south florida. >> very interesting.

evan donovan, steve contorno. thank you both. we'll be talking more. if you think joe biden is flush with cane campaign cash, white until you see what senate democrats are spending compared to opponents. could this help democrats flip the snalt s flip the snal urance so you only pay for what you need. isn't that what you just did? service! ♪ stand back, i'm gonna show ya ♪ ♪ how doug and limu roll, ya ♪ ♪ you know you got to live it ♪ ♪ if you wanna wi... [ music stops ] time out! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ he calls on the nation's antop health experts.s, working together, for all americans, is what joe does.

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it isn't just the trump campaign being pounded on the air waves financially. democrats are outspending the republicans almost two to one. the team at the nbc political unit, we crunched the numbers. democratic senate campaigns spent more than $135 million in advertising through the end of september including al gross ending on the democratic line in alaska. that's nearly twice of what republicans spend. that spending advantage is smaller when you account for outside groups. democrats spend $345 million compared to $288 million by republicans. the democrat's advantage is clear in iowa. greenfield used $29 million in iowa.

in south carolina a three to one margin. we haven't heard the third quarter numbers yet. and in north carolina, that race is taking a twist this week with the october surprise, cunningham admitting and forced to apologize for an affair. all this happening while he was running for the senate. a big portion of the democratic fundraising advantage comes from small donors who are relying on an online tool keeping republicans up at night. it's called act blue. chris jansing has more on this. just today mcconnell was complaining about act blue. >> they haven't been able to match it. i think it's made for 2020. it allows democratic grass roots to channel their emotions. the anger, the frustration

they're feeling into donations. take the v.p. debate. that day the biden/harris ticket took in $12 million. the other down ballot races organizations, another $9 million just in the three hours around the debate. and here's other examples of how this works. >> when wisconsin democrats held an original castrating of the princess bride, cash poured in. >> it brought in more than 100,000 people who contributed 4 $.25 million. >> you're kidding? >> the biggest grass roots fun raizer of all time. >> more than $70 million went to left leaning candidates and causes in a day. shattering records this campaign cycle for the online fund raising juggernaut, act blue. >> folks donated $3.8 billion to

over 21,000 different candidates committees and organizations. >> reporter: the nearly 13,000 donors can make a contribution in seconds. >> will you shut up, man? >> while joe biden debated democrats donated setting his single day record. trump's once major fund raising advantage gone as he set records of his own. >> is there any democrat practically in this country that doesn't use act blue? >> we work with everybody on the federal level and we work all the way down to local school board races. >> i have raised approximately $560,000. >> reporter: with act through, coral has a real shot at winning a republican house seat. >> i grew up in public housing. i live in a house my grandfather built. i'm not being finance bid the big people. >> reporter: 75% of her donors gave less than $10. >> it evens the playing field. you don't have to be a million air to support what you value

anymore. i think that's what's important about act blue. >> reporter: now, when you ask republicans about it, i got an official statement from the rnc. they said oversaturated air waves are no substitute for voter contact. but when you talk to republicans they tell you privately what mcconnell said publicly today. their equivalent has not kept up, and this is a game-changer and up down the ballot. they go all the way down to school board races. they're raising money for democrats for school boards. >> well, chris jansing, it's a great report and pretty important, i think, pillar for people to understand how this campaign is shaping up as we go to election day. i can tell you on the republican side, this is infighting among which consultant gets to control win red, and that's why they've not been able to match this. nice work. we're tracking hurricane delta as the outer band lash the

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vote yes on prop 25 to end money bail. welcome back for the second time in less than two months the louisiana coast is bracing for a major hurricane. hurricane delta yes, we're up to the fourth letter of the greek alphabet. it's churning in the gulf coast. forecasters expect it to make land fall category two or three near lake charles louisiana. they're still recovering from hurricane laura. delta could be historic. no major hurricanes have never struck the same location in the same hurricane season. cal is with us. i mean, they haven't finished the cleanup from laura. there's to way they've finished that cleanup, and now this. >> yeah. no, look q as you're saying we were surveying the damage of that storm six weeks ago this morning, house after house, 95%

of the roofs in lake charles were damaged by the storm six weeks ago. we ran into somebody who is moving their mother right now. his name was mark. we talked to him about that first storm. take a listen. >> nerve wracking. no sleep. exhausting. just the cleanup was unreal. so i don't think he'd ever experienced anything like that wind wise. maybe more water. it affects you physically and psychologically and to turn around six weeks later and experience it again is pretty tough. >> this is the sixth storm to hit the gulf of mexico coast, the tenth to get the continental u.s. this year. $10 billion worth of damage and the debris is put on the street. people were just starting to organize the debris. get it on the street. that's going to get kicked up in

that's one of the major concerns of officials here. >> that sounds like it would be a huge concern. cal perry, thank you. let's get more on the storm track with al roker. al, i just -- nobody getting hit with one hurricane is hard enough. two within a six week period, any hope that lake charles will get spared or is it not looking good? >> it's not really looking great, chuck. unfortunately, and our hearts go all to all those folks. they've been through so much six weeks ago. as cal was saying, damage hasn't been repaired. as we saw earlier this morning during a report, there are piles and piles and piles of debris out. you have a good wind coming through like right now, there's a category three storm, probably come on shore as a two, but 115 miles per hour winds. you don't need them to be that fast to cause a lot of damage, because depbris is getting thron

everywhere. it will make land fall this evening into tonight, and so this wind, rain, and storm surge for louisiana is going to be tough, and then it's going to move inland and even though weakening, it's going to have a lot of winds and it's going to have a lot of rain. we could see flash flooding, urban flooding and creek and river flooding possible into the mid atlantic on sunday. here are the winds. lake charles, 60 miles per hour wind gusts and new orleans is about 200 miles per hour away, wind gusts of 31 miles per hour. the peak wind gusts will move in tonight over lake charles and east. and speaking of east, the winds around this are in a counterclockwise direction. delta's wind flow will come from the gulf into the coast and as it does, you can see we have storm surges where the most deaths happen. morgan city 7 to 11 feet. biloxi, one to three feet.

and the water is under the shoreline because it's shallow, it enhances the storm surge, and i'll tell you, one to three feet, especially three feet of storm surge can knock you off your feet and be considered life tle threatening. six feet, structural damage is catastrophic for homes and nine feet, it moves inland and wipes out neighborhoods. and as i said, with the system coming up, a lot of rain. can't rule out a tornado or two and rainfall amounts as much as 15 inches especially in the lower mississippi river valley. >> get off my key -- >> al roker, thank you, and boy, we are worried about the folks in lake charles. let's just hope it's not nearly as bad as feared. al thank you. ahead, new information about the governor of michigan and the kidnapping case. stay with us. ping case.

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♪ since pioneering the suv in 1935, the chevy suburban has carried many things. nothing more important ♪ nd tahoe ever. welcome back. we have an update on the michigan governor kidnapping plot case. yesterday the fbi arrested 13 men in connection with the plot. today 38-year-old sean fix became the first member of the group to become arraigned. he faced a judge virtually this morning. he is one of the seven men charged in aiding in domestic terrorism while six others were

charged federally with conspiracy to kidnap the governor. learning more behind this foiled plot, we now know that several of the men were part of a right-ring group called the wolverine watchmen. this group believes in the boogaloo movement. and this advocates for a violent uprising against liberal, government, and law enforcement. to explain more about these extremist groups i am joined by nbc news reporter ben collins. ben, like i said, i do not envy the dark corners of the internet that you end up having to cover for your beat. the boogaloo movement, that in itself is going to need an explanation for some viewers on air here. so start there, and then help us connect to the wolverine mess. >> sure. so the boogaloo movement started a couple years ago on this extremist website called 4chan. it was a meme. they call it boogaloo, civil war

2 electric boogaloo which means they are trying to prep for a civil war. they believe that the state should be demolished and replaced by something else. that has invited in a lot of various militias. it's invited in a lot of younger people to militias than would otherwise be amenable to that sort of thing. what we saw yesterday in these arrests were a hodgepodge of various different militia groups. even qanon people were involved in these arrests. and really their centralized focus was to overthrow the governor in michigan, bring her to a place where they thought she was going to face a trial. others thought they should go to her door and shoot her. and this movement is the boogaloo. >> and the boogaloo has popped

up during these social justice demonstrations when there's been some questions about where did the -- who's been instigating the violence. i know you've been tracking some of this boogaloo stuff with that as well, correct? >> yes. so a few months ago back in june, a guy named stephen korea went and killed a federal officer at one of the protests in oakland. he said use our anger to fuel our fire. so they are trying to stoke unrest anywhere they can get it. so, whether it's this liberate michigan protest, which they fervently agreed with by the way. two of the people who were arrested yesterday were at that liberate michigan protest months ago. or if these protests where they go and try to coopt it for their own gain. their goal is to destroy the state and then rebuild something else. so any time there's something they can co-opt to make something more dangerous, they will try to do it.

>> so, these issues with the militias in michigan, while qanon is a social media phenomenon, this militia stuff was there before we had an internet. the michigan militias were connected to the oklahoma city bombing. is there at all a renewed interest by the fbi to do more than just monitor these militia groups? >> oh, i'm positive there is. the number one problem, domestic terror problem, is white supremacy and these militia movements. it's not the number one problem of the president, and that's sort of the issue. some of these things that he is saying are dog-whistling these people, whether he knows it or not. the idea to liberate michigan, trust me, that's been in the minds of people well before the internet. now there are places to organize these people and recruit these people on places like facebook specifically. and that's what happened. a lot of this planning was done on facebook. so while this stuff has been around for decades literally,

it's been accelerated by recruitment tools and by the president. >> i'm curious, ben. we all pick on facebook a lot. is this something they should be held accountable for? and how could they prevent their platform from being used for these private, secret meetings? >> trust me, chuck. facebook is like a buzzword. i totally get it. but they are a huge part of the problem here. they have a recommendations algorithm that recommends people from basic groups, law-abiding gun owners to these radical groups very quickly. sometimes people don't even really know they're in a radical group. so that's what the issue is here. there is a radicalization pipeline that happens on facebook and youtube, and it needs to be shut down. but there needs to be regulation first for us to get there. >> there's no doubt, i can tell you i'm worried about that on

youtube. those youtube algorithms i worry about, with a certain 13-year-old in my house, anyway. thank you all for being with us this hour. we'll be back monday with more i will talk to bill gates about his efforts to distribute a coronavirus vaccine worldwide. and ted cruz and dick durbin will be on as well. 5:00 a.m. pandemic, 8:00 a.m. eastern time. msnbc's coverage continues right after this break. continues rigt after this break for the whole family. trusted soothing vapors, from vicks >> tech: every customer has their own safelite story. this couple was on a camping trip... ...when their windshield got a chip. they drove to safelite for a same-day repair. and with their insurance, it was no cost to them. >> woman: really?

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good afternoon. i'm katy tur. it is 11:00 a.m. out west and 2:00 p.m. in the east where the president is pushing to get back on the campaign trail this weekend, claiming he's completely cured of covid-19. earlier this afternoon, the president held a virtual rally with rush