plot involving militias to kidnap and possibly kill the governor of michigan. "velsi" starts now. >> good morning. it's saturday, october 10th. i'm ali velsi. two major stories are sdom natu dominating the news. the coronavirus yououtbreak at white house and the alleged terrorists who stand accused of kidnapping gretchen whitmer. 13 people associated with anti-government groups have been arrested in that disturbing and bizarre alleged plot to kidnap and possibly kill governor whitmer. it follows an investigation of the michigan authorities and fbi going back months. according to the michigan attorney general, the end goal

is what white supremacists call the boogaloo. an uprising or a second civil war. the individuals arrested scheme to overthrow the government by storming the michigan state capital in lansing and a facility and killing law enforcement. the officials arrested conducted coordinated surveillance on the governor's vacation home and detonated an improvised explosive device. after kidnapping the governor, the group planned to take her to a secret location in wisconsin and hold her on trial for treas treason. what did governor whitmer do? tried to keep her citizens safe from covid-19 and aiming to stop the spread. the governor drew the ire of the president two tweeted in april

who tweeted quote liberate michigan. some protesters descended on the michigan state house to protect the stay-at-home orders. confederate flags and suggesting violence signs were spotted at the protests and another one the following month. this week, trump responded with the alleged kidnapping plot by attacking whitmer tweeting she has done a terrible job and suggested she should thank him. the president has given legitimacy through white supremacists during his time in the white house from refusing to rebuke david duke. meanwhile, trump is set to hold an event at the white house with hundreds of supporters on the south lawn. trump will be on a blue room balcony because he has covid and

we have no credible reason to believe he is not still contagious. his case and confirmed cases of others in and around the government can be traced back to september 26th to a rose garden ceremony and indoor ceremony the same day. hosted in the rush to fill the seat of justice ruth bader ginsburg's seat as soon as possible. to hell with those in the country and those leading it. >> we had a super spreader event in the white house. it was a situation where people were crowded together and not wearing masks. the data speaks for itself. >> as i said, president trump still appears to have covid-19. he insists he's cured and healed. his doctors say we won't know until after the weekend. despite being asked numerous

times, nobody will address when the last negative test was. his doctors admitted to not be truthful say trump has completed the course of therapy for covid-19 which included the steroid dexamethasone. the drug with common side effects. including a wide range of psychiatric side effects. the president's behavior has been bizarre even by his standards. at times, he would have gotten better without medication and claiming he was quote cured and healed and coughing through the appearance on fox news. this is the man who questioned if you could ingest bleach and promoted hydroxychloroquine as a miracle drug which surprisingly trump wasn't given for his treatment. it is impossible to narrow down exactly where he stands on anything right now as it relates

to americans. he said he was against another congressional pandemic relief bill. then tied it to his re-election campaign and then said he was for parts of the relief bill right now. then said he wants a bigger bill than congressional democrats and republicans want. it is truly dizzying. this week included trump says it was a blessing from god he contracted coronavirus. all kamala harris a monster and communi communist. calling for william barr to indict joe biden and barack obama going on a twitter rant for hours at a time saying there is nothing to fear from the disease which has killed 214,000 americans and counting. the president had this truly unhinged outburst when talking about iran. >> we have strength in weapons. we never had it like we have it now. iran knows that. they have been put on notice. if you [ bleep ] around with us.

if you do something bad to us, we are going to do things to you that have never been done before. >> that performance from a two-hour long rambling appearance on rush limbaugh yshw is concerning. he has pressured his secretary of state into announcing he will release hillary clinton's emails before the election. it seems certain hillary clinton is not going to win the presidential election. she is not running against her and he is continuing to be obsessed by her. > joining me now is kathleen sebelius and dr. vin gupta. a major in the united states air force medical corps and medical

contributor. governor sebelius, i think i got your title wrong. former governor of kansas. thank you for being with us. i want to say i'm glad to have both of you here. it is a macro/micro conversation. we need to talk about the science and medicine. governor, you were a cabinet secretary. i am this week yet more concerned about the greater implications of the lack of leadership or counter leadership from this administration than i am about the virus. i believe and dr. gupta can tell us science can help us defeat the rye obviovirus. the white house is working actively in the wrong direction. >> you saw on the president's debate and the vice president debate with a refusal commitment to peaceful transition of power.

we have the amazing law enforcement ovfficers with a plt to kidnap the governor and the president is saying she say terrible person. this is a scary situation where the president may be actively inciting civil unrest. it is all about him. everything is about him. he refuses to take care of anybody while he is sick. he refuses to indicate compassion while healthy. this situation where he is trying to ferment the idea all of his political opponents should be tried and locked up for treason and the former president and vice president of the united states and a sitting governor is doing a terrible job and not offering compassion for the fact that her family has been terrorized and she has been put in a terrifically difficult situation. not condemning white

supremacists who are rising up in various groups across the country and not committing to the peaceful transfer of power. this is a frightening situation. >> dr. gupta, tell me it is the dexamethasone speaking or something. we have been covering the president for close to four years now. he goes on twitter rants and this week was weird. a video when he landed a hero video. inability to discuss whether he was at some point negative. obviously he was, for covid-19, but not telling us about it. saying he is cured. he deoesn't take medicine and then saying the nmedicine saved him. and it is truly weird. how much is this medically induced? it is hard to explain whether he is cornered and losing and this is his reaction or there is something else here. >> good morning, ali and secretary sebelius.

ali, certainly a good question. dexamethasone is a powerful steroid. if you have taken prednisone, this is multiple times more stronger steroid. we know this could cause insomnia and feeling of euphoria. if you are not used to taking a steroid, it could interfere with thought process. it is a possibility. my big concern here is what is the take home that the american people get from seeing their president who rules by every metric we have for severe covid-19 pneumonia? what is the message we get? once he feels better, he feels empowered to have an in-person event. ali, what we know here is resolution of symptoms does not mean you are not a threat to other people in terms of

infectio infectiousness. especially with severe covid-19 pneumonia. he sharess multiple reasons. we know he needs to isolate for 20 days. it is critical that anybody thinking about going to the white house, think twice. you are putting yourself at risk and the health of loved ones at risk. >> you know, a letter from dr. f fagge that i read last night who writes saying do the right thing by your staff. stand up to the president. they will fire you. they will drag you, but the cdc was the gold standard. now he calls it tarnished grass. the president, when he landed from walter reed, made a speech and said he learned so much about covid-19. i expected him to say something different. then he said don't let it

dominate your life. that was the message from the president who was affected by this thing to the families of the dead americans and the people who have had this thing. don't let it dominate your life. >> unfortunately, it is exactly the wrong message as dr. gupta just said. this is a very violent disease. it hits people. it has lingering effects. 215,000 people have died. just yesterday, 915 americans just died. the president had the very best medical treatment in the world. he has a medical unit at the white house. he is living in a hospital basically. he is ignoring all of the rules as dr. gupta said. this is not about him. it's about everybody around him. every time he leaves an isolated room in the white house, he is

putting everybody at risk. i looked at the poor marine outside the door of the oval office which is an indication the president is in the oval office. that means he is wandering through the white house exposing everyone as an active covid-19 patient. this is terrifying. now he will invite lots of others back to the site as dr. fauci said of the super spreader event. bill fagge is a world expert on infectious disease and public health. his condemnation of what is happening right now at the cdc is quite disheartening because he knows that agency well and knows what talent is there. the fact the president of the united states is willing over and over again for his own political gain to put people at risk and say to people risk your lives. don't worry about this. don't worry about your loved ones. it is all about me. that is really continuing to show the worst leadership we can

possibly imagine. >> dr. gupta, we are glad we have you to give us good advice. you have been elevated to a position which so many millions of americans turn to you and people like you because the things we're supposed to turn to are gone. people distrust government. we think government will give us through the agencies like the cdc and fda, give us good information. what dr. fagge points out is what we discuss. i have to ask people like you if the vaccine is safe to take. i have never questioned vaccine or government guide rylines on things. once the trust is eroded as the white house has done to organizations like the cdc, it takes a long time to get that back. the folks who feed off the anti-vaxx crowd feed into this. >> you bet, ali. thank you for the trust and the

platform. it is something we all take seriously and try to use it responsibly. the focus on the distractions has not allowed us to focus on things that matter. the surge in wisconsin is deeply concerning. we think it is related to clusters at colleges and universities. 5,500 cases in 25 schools. in iowa, the president is not messaging on. 55 active outbreaks at nursing facili facilities. 2/3 of colleges do not have a testing strategy or test symptomatic individuals. ali, data is out that suggest 80% of people asymptomatic are pre-symptomatic. that is deeply concerning. number two, there is actually recent data suggesting if states implemented a mask policy before

reopeni reopening, 80% of excess deaths would have been avoided. this is something i wish the president would talk about. we lots trust in the federal institutions because they have been politicized. we are not having the substantive conversations that matter to the people thand teachers and parents. those are questions i get all the time. >> we will continue to have conversations with people like you and people like governor sebelius. governor of wisconsin, tony, saying the situation with coronavirus in his state is out of control. those are his words. kathleen sebelius. former governor of kansas. dr. gupta. medical contributor. seven months after coronavirus was declared a

pandemic, the united states is reporting record levels of cases. coming up, where the outbreaks are and some hospitals who thought they were in the clear could soon become inundated with patients. become inundated with patients ♪ you can go your own way

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tomorrow marks seven months since the coronavirus was declared a pandemic. on february 10th, president trump said as the heat comes in, typically it will go away in april. today is october 10th. we are many months into this. the united states is setting coronavirus records and not in the good way. according to john hopkins, u.s. recorded 56,000 new cases on friday. that is the highest in two months. there are more than 7,700,000 covid-19 cases in the united

states. nearly 215,000 americans are dead. north and south dakota with the highest numbers of any state. wisconsin comes in at number three. the crisis is taking a dire turn. a record number of hospitalizations could overwhelm the state health care. the 530 bed field hospital is going to open at the wisconsin state fair park to help with the overflow of coronavirus patients. medical professionals in the state thought they were in clear until the latest wave hit like a punch to the gut. >> here we are on the 1st of october and the virus has come back with a vengeance. we're in deep trouble. in the last two weeks, we have seen a rise in cases to the point that today's numbers show more new positive cases and more

hospitalizations and more deaths than we had during the entire pandemic. >> president trump's covid-19 vaccine program operation warp speed is not progressing as fast as he hoped. trump said a vaccine would be ready close to election day. he said it at the debate last week. it is worth noting according to fda guidelines. developers seeking emergency authorization for their programs should monitor their patients for at least two months after their final vaccine dose. if you are falling that ti timeline, pfizer would not file for that authorization until after november 3rd. that vaccine will not be available before election day. it was never going to happen. separately, the head of operation warp speed said only the initial data on the efficacy is expected between november and

december. we are months away. not days or weeks. here is something. scientifically cool and stuff of nightmares. this is what the coronavirus looks like inn sidside the huma body. so far low resolution, but dr. lui from beijing said he reconstructed the image on the computer from the microscope. coming up after the break, the trump administration's latest ploy on the voting systems. after the president's diagnosis, he said don't let coronavirus dominate your life. i ask you to email me to mystory@velsi.com. this one writes, my dad passed away on august 5th. he was the most wonderful father and grandfather.

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he's trying to scare us. he is trying to convince everybody there are ways to play with the vote and undermine the vote. they can't. if we show up, we win. look what is happening in early voting across america. long lines. long lines. we have to win overwhelmingly so he can't be in a position to put the phony challenges in he is talking about. >> joe biden on the campaign trail yesterday in nevada trying to underscore the trump administration efforts to

undermine the vote eurging supporters. with 24 days until the election, damaging news from the justice department. attorney general bill barr's doj is prubrushing aside a rule designed from federal prosecutors from interfering in elections. federal prosecutors will launch investigations into suspected voter fraud before the polls close even if it might affect the outcome of the election. this goes against the policy of taking great care to avoid election interferencinterferenc. it sites postal workers and military workers as targets for investigations. it is important to note the policy opening the door to investigations to interfere with the election comes as president trump and attorney general barr cast doubt on the system with public statements. floating conspiracy theories about fraud and mail in voting.

my next guest finds this alarming. he says americans should not trust doj announcements right now. justin levin is in the civil rights division. thank you for joining us. welcome. the issue is like the conversation a few minutes ago if they announce a vaccine, i have to go around asking doctors i know to tell me if they think it is safe. we have to do something similar with the department of justice. if anything happens in the next 24 days dealing with voter fraud, we have to dig deeper if that is the case. this is the instance where americans cannot trust the single source of news. >> that is right. unfortunately when the doj said something about an investigation and it rarely said anything until all of the facts were known until it decided to take the course of action.

it used to be you could trust what the doj said. i don't know if that is true right now. the steps the attorney general mentioned are precisely right as joe biden said. designed to scare us to undermine our confidence in the elections. they came in carving out the exception of the rule of the doj which is don't become the story. investigate and prosecute. make sure that investigation is not itself news that affects the elections. we all know in 2016 there was a prominent example where that didn't happen. and we may have to look forward to a few of those again this year. >> to the point, i'm glad you made reference to what joe biden said at the beginning of the segment. for votes in waste baskets and foreign evntities interfering -

if you vote and your vote is counted, democracy will prevail. >> that is right. the voters are going to decide the election. there is a lot of scary information put out by the white house and put out by the doj trying to convince you this is in the hands of the lawyers and courts and justice system. we, the people, will decide who we want to have as president. the election has already started. people are already casting ballots. that will continue for the next month. when you make a plan and check your registration and what you decide how you vote and whether you vote in mail or in person or if you do it early, you can be confident that vote will be counted. apparent ratus of the election process is monitored by state officials. the federal government doesn't have much role in it at all. if we focus on getting the ballots and casting the ballots

and tune out the noise, you can be assured the election is safe and reliable. >> the one thing that might be different this time around is because of the mail-in ballots and absentee ballots, we may not have a solid result on the night of the election or when ballots comes in may change the scene. donald trump is undermining that. he is saying it could be weeks as if to say there is something wrong with counting all ballots. if it takes weeks, i prefer it didn't, but if it did, it is still americans voting for that president. we have to have this wrapped up by january 20th. >> that's right. the ballots are what they are. officials will count them. they take the time necessary to dot the is and cross the ts. because there are so many ballots cast by mail, those take longer to process than

electronic on election night. if that takes longer, it is not like the process is changing. we are actually taking the time to make a list and check it twice. that is the important thing. the fact we might not know on election night and i think we will know by the weekend. by a few days after election night at the latest. that doesn't mean the process is broken. that means it is working. we are giving the bean counters time to count them. >> justin, thank you for joining me. he is a former deputy attorney general for the department of justice civil rights division. thank you. a domestic terror plot foiled on u.s. soil. why isn't the president acting like it was? coming up, the greatest threat to security is not far. it's home grown. y is not far it's home grown. it hap o all of us. we buy a new home, and we turn into our parents. what i do is help new homeowners overcome this. what is that, an adjustable spanner? good choice, steve.

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years that white extremist groups pose a threat. it is a fact that is ignored by the administration. a thwarted attack on a government official this week reminded us of reality. 13 men now facing state and f federal charges in the role in the plot to kidnap and murder the governor gretchen whitmer. 13 men involved in militias and several with history of anti-government organizing. a report by nbc news details the suspects ties to the boogaloo movement which believes another civil war is an fofoot. when this jaw dropping headline crossed on thursday, no one could believe it. here in the united states, we have a distinct problem. extremist anti-government groups

armed to the teeth. the plot against governor whitmer comes the same week that the trump administration released the reports on the threat of the united states and unsurprisingly to anyone who has been paying attention, the report said, white supremacist extreme evideists is the most l threat in the homeland. with me is malcolm nance. malcolm, here is problem number one. we need to call this thing by its name. donald trump campaigned about radical islamic terrorism by its name. we have the militias, these bands of guys with guns and clubby. that is not what it is. anti-government armed bands of people across america. in syria, we call that isis.

we call this al qaeda. that's what these people are. >> they were referred to right-wing extremists or armed gunmen or militia groups. technically, among the counterterrorism world, they are domestic or american terrorists. there is no difference between islamic extremist or former communist terrorist versus american. they carry out acts of violence and plan to commit acts of violence of a political basis to influence the audience beyond the victims. they operate within an ideology. what makes the american terrorist? which goes back a long way. the reason we're talking about them is anti-government is because the kkk was in government for a very long time. it was only when they had their power taken away from them that these groups started to crop up five or ten years and start

going after the government they feel was slighted them. they are terrorists and they operate as terrorists cells and organizations with a radicalized ideology. >> it should be clear that while in many states the idea they carry guns and operate in groups is not inherently illegal. there is no law enforcement role for them. there is no role for them to be doing anything that they think is protecting society. that is for law enforcement itself or the national guard if activated by the governor. all 50 states say they cannot be involved in poll watching like donald trump says or other law enforcement activities or protecting small businesslike kyle rittenhouse thought he was doing. >> no, what we're talking about is paramilitary vigilanteism.

armed insurgents. that is what we are fighting in iraq and afghanistan. they started out in small groups in the legal capacity gun clubs and guys down at the range talking. it is the same philosophy. where they start swaying into terrorism is about the intent of what they want to do. they want in michigan to not just take governor whitmer. they intended to kill her. they wanted her on trial for treason and the event is execution. they intended to have a government uprising just like timothy mcveigh with the murrow building. these people live in a fantasy world. what they will find out is that law enforcement, national guard, military, they are not on their side even though they have, you

know, a sheriff here or that who is corrupt and believes in an ideolo ideology. they will find out very quickly that the law when applied properly and eavenly has a dim view of this. >> so let's take a look at the chart from the southern poverty law center of the increase of anti-government groups. you see under president clinton, they declined. then obama comes in office and they hit levels never before. when trump comes in office, they don't hate the government all that much. these are mostly -- not mostly, all white groups. they're men. gretchen whitmer as governor of michigan, did not impose any restrictions for covid that were more than cuomo in new york or other governors who were men. a misogynist issue you here. >> there is an ideological

strain to this. these people were radicalized by the very fact that a black man could sit in the oval office. he could be president of the united states. as it escalated as you look at your chart, they started to have this great fear. peaking at newtown. the murder of 26 children and teachers in newtown. the thing is they are coming to take our guns. there were terrorists acts. three s.w.a.t. officers were murdered in pittsburgh because glenn beck was shouting about activists. you see it taper off as they got con iffi you see it taper off as they got con iffdent that trump was becoming president. they are in a state of readiness to support donald trump. this particular strain of vanilla isis, if you want to call it that, they are arming themselves. i have seen these people.

i have met these people. they are not doing it for recreation. they intend to feel they will be in some sort of, you know, wolverine-esque insurgency type of government that comes in that might be the biden administration. >> vanilla isis. malcolm, thank you. he isanalyst. how team trump embraced our enemies. coming up, on the trump administration family separation at the border. who was the driving force behind the policy and how the administration followed through with it despite migrant children may never find their way back to their moms and dads. ack to their moms and dads.

when donald trump i summed the presidency in 2017, the country knew he lacked general decency and had contempt for many norms within our democratic society. we hoped administration officials who were unlike the president would at at the least protect americans from his everyone poe tense and incompetence. we were wrong. in one case that embodies the eeth tho ethos is the separation policy that separated more than 5,000 children from their family as

they sought to cross the border into the united states. we thought it was cruel, but now we know it was intentionally cruel. a pilot program determined that the children under the age of 12 should be given a maturity test to see if they could find their parents after separation. but that warning was ignored. the administration extended the policy months later without a plan to reunite families, quote, it was expected children would see their parents again when both were deported to their home countries. now we know because of a draft inspector general report, the justice department was the driving force behind the policy, as then attorney general jeff sessions said, quote, we need to take away children. joining me now, nbc's jacob soboroff. he's done extensive report on this, he wrote separated, inside an american tragedy. good morning. thank you for getting up to early to be with us. i have to you have about this

pilot program. 303 families were separated. those separated included 11 children under the age of 1. 22 who were 1. and 28 who were 2 years old. i don't even -- i don't know what to say about this. you know much more about this than most us do and you knew it ahead of time. what was the point of this? >> to inflict torture in the words of physicians for human rights on these families so that they wouldn't come to the united states in the future, families like them wouldn't come to the united states in the future. obviously the administration has long disputed that, but now more than ever both from the memo from this draft doj inspector general report that we obtained at nbc news and the bombshell reporteding from t reporting from earlier in the week, it makes clearer than ever before they knew exact kwla they were doing. not only did the department of justice know what they were

doing, but as i report in the book, we had officials from homeland security and health and hum human services that this would damage children for the lifetime yet they moved forward with the policy. >> we know what happened, i was pleased to read in your book that hhs and dhs career officials pushed back on the government. it used to be what i thought worked about government, career people would tell political people when something wasn't ride right. it didn't work. so if the political people prevailed last time, what happens if donald trump wins again? >> well, number one, donald trump has already said, as i also report in the book, that he wants to restart separations. on marine one he told kirstjen nielsen on the way to survey tornado damage he wanted to bring it back. that's what he was thinking about. we have an election on our hands right now, donald trump is pretty clear, what's joe biden going to do about this sflak what practice? what's he going to do about the

expulsion of the children that are being pushed back into mexico literally as we speak? and then what are they going to do about solutions we know exist? i went to guatemala, won the nobel peace prize for its work combating hunger. we know that hunger, climate change, find security are one of the biggest sending factors from kunds countri countries like guatemala. this election couldn't be more consequential. i know it feels like family separations under the past, but what's happening now, immigration attorneys, activists, people along the borders saying it's arguably worse now than it was ever before. >> while it sounds like immigration policy, every can't that's up against a make it country that is poor, impoverished, have a lack of

wo food, politically we should be concentrating on the central american countries and creating world in which not everybody wants to leave and come to america, because that's the natural flow of humety. >> instead, the trump administration did the opposite. they doubled down on a deterrence policy based on punishment that's been developed over decades starting with the clinton administration, going into the bush administration with the creation of dhs, the obama administration obviously deported more people than anybody before and built facilities with cages, but nobody did what donald trump did, which is systemically engage in child abuse according to the american academy of pediatrics in order to scare people from coming. it's never worked before, it's currently not working with the administration's policies, and that's why obviously this campaign is about figuring out what a new way forward is. >> jacob, the world will thank you and julia ainsley and your colleagues who wrote the first draft of this history for us. jacob is the author of "the new

york times" best seller separated inside an american tragedy. if you know anybody who's still not sure how they're sflorvotin this election, express this book to them and let them read it. coming up, i'll ask the former 2020 candidate about his expensive trip to water reed medical center, new details on trump's taxes. stay with us. velshi continues after the break. with us. velshi continues after the break. ♪ you can go your own way

♪ go your own way

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good morning to you. it is saturday, october 10th. i'm ali velshi. we begin with gretchen witness h whitmer back on the campaign trail yesterday just a day after facing down a foiled domestic terror plot to kidnap her or even kill her. officials announced the aest ref 13 people. in an op-ed, whitmer lay part of the blame at the feet of the president write, quote, when our leaders encourage domestic terrorists, they legitimize the their actions. as president told the proud boys to stand back and stand by during the first presidential debate, he can