to some it might sound crazy that just 24 days before a presidential election, speaker nancy pelosi is introducing a bill to establish a bipartisan commission. the idea is based on the 25th amendment which outlines presidential succession. speaker pelosi insists it has nothing to do at all with the upcoming election or doesn't president but everything do with protecting the constitution, but the move is understandable if you consider what donald trump did this week after leaving walter reed where he was treated for the coronavirus. take a look. >> i learned so much about coronavirus. and one thing that's for certain. don't let it dominate you. don't be afraid of it. i know there's a risk, there's a danger, but that's okay. and now i'm better, and maybe i'm immune. i don't know. so i think this was a blessing

from god that i caught it. this was a blessing in disguise. >> i feel perfect. there's nothing wrong. i had a case. i got it knocked out. i think it was regeneron that was responsible for it. because of that, it was sort of almost like a gift from heaven. i don't think i'm college tanchs at all. i'm back because i'm a perfect specimen and extremely young. the regeneron, i view it as a cure, not just a therapeutic. i view it as a cure because i took it. >> people are going to get immediately better like i did. i felt better two weeks ago. i'm just saying we have something now that will cure this. a cure. >> even crazier than what donald trump has said are his plans today to hold a big public event at the white house even though it's not clear if he's still contagious with the coronavirus. joining me now to talk about all this, john podesta, former white house chief of staff to president clinton and former

campaign chair for hillary clinton. mr. podesta, thank you very much for being here this morning. >> good to be with you, jonathan. >> before we start, i want to share some news that has come over twitter from former new jersey governor chris christie. he's tweeted out. i am happy to let you know this morning i was released from morristown medical center. i want to thank the extraordinary doctors and nurses who cared for me for the last week. thanks for the prayers from family and friends. i'll have more to say next week. good news on governor chris christie on being released from the hospital. but, mr. podesta, we're hear to talk about what speaker pelosi spoke of yesterday, about a commission to look at the invocation of the 25th amendment. you're a former chief of staff. leave out who the president is. what do you make of this effort

by the speaker of the house to establish this commission? >> you know, jonathan, the 25th amendment was passed more than 50 years ago. it can set up for the cabinet to review whether the president is fit for presidency. i think speaker pelosi is telling the truth when she says this isn't about donald trump right now but about some future occurrence that we see, but there's no question donald trump's behavior triggered congress finally getting around to implementing this section of the 25th amendment. when you think about the advice he's giving in the video clips you just showed and his mishandling of the coronavirus has cost the lives of 213,000

americans, the worst record in the world, you have to ask yourself is he under the influence of the drugs? is it just more of the same, of his incapacity to feel the pain? but he's really giving messages to the american people that are endangering the lives of hundreds of thousands of more people. you know, there was just a recent study by the university of washington that said if people would just wear masks, we could save 100,000 lives by the end of the year, and president trump is giving exactly the opposite message to the american public. >> well, john, if -- i'm glad you brought that up about the masks and if the president were to tell people to wear a mask, the message it would send today. we know people have been invited

to the white house on the south lawn. what message does that send to the american people? >> very clearly, don't take this seriously. go about your lives. do whatever you were doing before covid struck the country. he's been doing this since january, even though he knew this was a dangerous disease that could kill tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of americans. as he said to bob woodward on tape that's now been reported in woodward's book, and he continues to tell people, don't take this seriously. you know, it's that combined with the other erratic behavior, the joyride he took while he was in the hospital, kind of endangering the secret service agents, the early return not just to the white house but the workspaces of the white house, the oval office, the west wing, out in the gardens, et cetera,

he's putting his staff at risk, he's putting public servants who support him at risk, and now he's doing the same thing with the mussolini white house-style meeting from the balcony. >> john podesta, thank you very much for coming on the show today. >> thanks, jonathan. joining me now robert costa and kimberly atkins, senior opinion writer for "the boston globe" and msnbc contributor. robert, kimberly, thank you very much for being here this morning. i want to pick up on the 25th amendment conversation. one of the things speaker pelosi announced yesterday, it's supposed to be bipartisan and the vice president is supposed to be a part of i. robert, you know these folks. you've covered these folks very well. how is it that a bipartisan commission can actually be

fielded? >> it's very unlikely at this point because as i've been reporting all week for the "washington post" t republican party is uneasy with president trump's conduct as he recovers from the coronavirus. they don't like how he's walking away from the stimulus negotiating table, but they still feel like they can't do much about it because they need his political capital. whether it's vice president pence or the u.s. senate, at this point the republican party is still in lockstep with president trump. what the speaker is trying to do is prod the gop into thinking a little harder about the president's fitness for office. they did not impeach the president. it was only senator romney who went out there against the president. and she's in a post-impeachment world trying to get them to at least consider moving toward her. >> kimberly -- actually, robert, let me stick with you. there was a tweet president trump sent out about the pelosi

bill where he tweeted out, crazy nancy pelosi is looking to replace the 25th amendment with something that benefits biden and harris. the dems want that to happen. what concerns me is joe biden is not vice president of the united states. how much concern is in the white house about what the president is doing now? >> there's confusion across the board inside the white house, across the republican parties. see corn inand mcsally starting to distance themselves, they know they're in the middle of a political war and the president's behavior is so unpredictab unpredictable. >> kimberly, we've got to talk

about this event that's going to happen today at the white house, 2,000 people. i have this full screen. trump launches his post-coronavirus recovery tour. he's expected to speak at the white house later today. quote, more than 2,000 guests vn been invited to attend." what on earth? what's he doing? >> there are a number of things wrong with this, right, starting with the fact you're not supposed to hold what essentially is a campaign event at the white house. >> i missed that. >> more importantly, there's the health risk of gathering large crowds. we know exactly what happened the last time a large white house event was held. we're just seeing the governor of new jersey chris christie just being released after nearly a week in the hospital. we're glad he's feeling better.

but recall where he was before he went there. he was at an outdoor white house event hugging folks. this is clearly very dangerous, but it's right in line with every message the president has sent before he was even released from the hospital, which is projecting this idea that the coronavirus is not scary, that if you get it, you be will cured. of course, no one in america would get the kind of care that donald trump received after he tested positive for the coronavirus. he's holding out a cure that does not exist. it's his desire to get back on the campaign trail. he wants to do that above all else. he wanted to be back on the road holding rallies and that's been put off until monday. he's refused to do any debate that wouldn't have joe biden on the same stage. he wants to move paste the coronavirus and his own diagnosis even though the white house has not disclosed he's

tested anything active. still he's pushing to get back out in the public and it's a dangerous message being sent when every health care profession professional, health expert says this is a very dangerous disease, and the things he's doing is putting others at risk. >> that's a great segue to go back to robert with. is there flai anyone can say, one, mr. president, no, this is a bad idea. two, of the people working in the white house, how freaked out are they about having a boss who h is infected still, as far as we know, with the coronavirus? >> not only are they alarmed. many have been working from home. we've been reporting the white house can seem almost like a ghost town because there are so few staffers showing up to work

as they continue to quarantine in their respective homes. you're seeing, jonathan, culture from the top, president trump, to chief of staff, mark meadows and other senior officials at this point in the trump presidency. this is a presidency dominated by the president. it's not like in 2017. we wrote so much about steve bannonsuseince priebus. the motivation i'm told, jonathan, he sees the polls. he's behind vice president biden. he wants to get back on the campaign trail. >> real quick, robert. are there any conversations among the cabn't aboinet about h

amendment? >> none at all. they know the president would be lying the plague and come right after. >> thank you for coming up on the show. coming up, we'll give you the results of trump's fox news checkup. keep it right here.

we had a medicine that appealed to me, fixed me. people are going to get immediately better like i did. i mean i feel better now than i did two weeks ago. it's crazy. i recovered immediately, almost immediately. i might not have recovered at all. i'm just saying we have something that will cure this now. a cure. >> it's been less than ten days

since president trump tested positive for the coronavirus. and this afternoon, the president, who may still be contagious, will hold a rally on the white house lawn. he said the guests will be instructed but not required to wear masks. on monday he'll fly aboard "air force one" to another rally in florida. there are other questions like has donald trump. ed negative since his release from walter reed. trump says it's in the works. >> i heard you said you were going to be retested today. have you been retested? >> i have been retested. i haven't found out any numbers or anything. i've been retested. i know i'm at the bottom of the scale or free. >> when is your next test going to be? >> i don't know. probably tomorrow, mark. they test every couple of days, but it's really at a level that's been great. great to see it disappear. >> but we haven't seen the results of that test or heard

from trump's doctor since thursday. cdc guidelines recommend two negative tests before leaving quarantine. joining me now. dr. ronald waechter from san francisco. msnbc contributors and author of the coming plague. before that, speaker pelosi was on t"the view" this week and whoopi goldberg asked her if she would go to the white house over the stimulus package. listen to what she had to say. >> is it time to pick up the phone? go over to the white house? >> i'm not going near the white house. it's one of the most dangerous places in the country. >> i mean, dr. waechterwaechter

not wrong. >> she's not wrong. it's the site of a superspreader event. even if the president is getting toward the end of his period of ineffectivity, there was a lot of virus hanging around there. it's not impossible others aren't infected. to have them milling around, no masks, it is pretty shocking. >> do you believe he's cured of the virus after a short period of time? >> at the end of their illness, if they have severe illness, we know they could be shedding the virus for a longer period of time. at least 15 days.

he could still be shedding the virus. the thing that shocks me is we have an administration that had a superspreader event only recently. was lackadaisical. we have a president who insists we have the mary malone where he might be spreading this to others. lindsey graham is refusing to take a test to do a debate with his contender on the stage because he's afraid he might be negative. the whole thing is a bid to undermine the country. >> is the president fooling himself? is he feeling great or feeling fantastic because he's on this

-- on steroids and not because of the therapies that he's been taking? dr. bedelia and then dr. wac wachter. >> i don't know. there's the one-two punch where the virus makes the immune system have a maladaptive response, it kicks in, and people do end up getting sichlt as his physician said, i don't think we see him out of the woods until his doctor says he's fully recovered. >> according to the president if we believe him, he's off his steroids, so it shouldn't account for how they're feeling. he could crash. when he says i feel 20 years

younger, there's nothing about covid that makes you feel 20 years younger. it's probably the steroids. my guess is his doctor ended it a day or two early. >> laurie, i want to bring you in. i want to pick up on something dr. wachter said at the beginning of the conversation. there was a scene where there was a superspreader event, but the virus could be hanging around the white house. talk about that and how worried should people be that even if the president is no longer shedding the virus, that some of it could still be around? is that possible? >> first of all, let me just say what a privilege it is to be with these two tremendous doctors. bob in particular has been

having public grand rounds you can watch online where ucc san francisco is available for everyone to see. it's a marvel and wonderful thing you're doing. >> thank you. >> one of the things that came through is how crucial its they we don't actually know when the president first got infected. we have widespread speculation that it was at the road garden on september 26th, so we project outward from that day, each course of his events and events at the whouchls but we're all running a bit blind because the white house has refused to let the cdc in to do a thorough investigation. we've not been allowed to have any further details on the other 34 cases reported to fema. and that makes it hard for us to know how does this illustrate the risk level with the campaign activities for the next 24, 25

days? that makes it very difficult for those of us who aren't in the white house, looking at video images such as you're showing right now, looking at images of the president that he wants released, which we now know he reverses that we're not actually seeing the first image. we're perhaps seeing the second or third take, and from all these, trying to read tea leaves. it's almost completely impossible. i want to say one thing about regener regeneron. the president had been receiving such a massive cocktail that it's hard for any expert to tease out from afar which element of that cocktail played the crucial role in however well he fells raich now, and what goepg forward without any of the medication the president is likely to experience. regeneron is a thorough

treatment but they're still trying to promote it. one of the things that's going to be going forward -- i think i'd like to ask the two physicians aboard. what's going to be tough for us to understand is has the president's own immune system made any antibodies or are we seeing maeps in h-- in samples n the blood we're drawing. the president says he's immune. is he immune? does he have some antibodies that have fought off the virus and protected him? he never jen rayed his own immune response and therefore he could potentially be at risk in these crowd settings.

he could potentially be reinfected. >> jump in. from what i understand, you're the expert on regeneron, but talk more about the president's therapies and how widely available are the drugs and medications that the president took available to the more than 7 million people who will now -- who have now contracted covid-19? >> first of all, thank you, laurie, for the shout-out. i really appreciate it. let me clarify one thing, gentlemen. i don't believe people would be getting the virus from the white house in that it's sitting around on a table. i think it's become clear. i am concerned an chain of transmission that the people we know who have gotten it may have given it to others and they may be milling around the white house.

that's the concern. in terms of the mono clonal antibodies. no one knows that they're not getting a placebo. take this idea that that's what cured him. have no idea. it could have been that, the other two medicines he got, or luck. in fact, when he was first diagnosed and given his weight. he had about a 95% chance of getting through this. a 5% chance of dying when first diagnosed. if he had gotten a placebo, he would have been soughting out, placebo, it's the miracle cure. maybe it lowered his mortality rate by a couple. we don't know yet. it's still early in the studies. that drug is not available to you and me.

one final point, we should recall that prior cures include hydroxychloroquine, now thought to be demonstrated as ineffective. cosmo plasma, bleach, and the virus would disappear. we should take this with a grain of sault. >> dr. bedahll bhadelia, i want you to listen to this. >> do you remember when he had his last negative test? >> i don't want to go backward? >> when is the last time drn. >> i can't release that.

the dom tors want it kept private. >> i saw the doctors today. i'm in great shachlt i took this regeneron. it's phenomenal. >> you said you don't have that. you don't know or you don't want to say? >> so we don't have that. i don't personally know. >> why is it so important that we know when the prlt's last negative test was? >> well, jonathan there's clearly a relit tans. that's a concern because if he was positive earlier, there might have been a longer period of time. just as the president and others and dr. wachter has said, we need to make sure we get in contact with everyone else who may not be exposing other people. >> with that, we're going to

have to leave it there. dr. wachter, dr. bedelly, and laurie garrett, thanks for coming on the show today. coming up next, the president's lock 'em up list. we'll be right back. up list we'll be right back. zzzquil pure zzzs all night. fall asleep. stay asleep.

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these people, i'm going to get little dissatisfaction. >> in one of his many unhinged interviews this week, donald trump roasted his own cabinet officials for being too slow to throw his political rivals in jail. now answering the call. >> we've got the emails. we're getting them out. we've got all the information out so americans can see it. >> are you doing it before the election? >> we'll see. >> that's going to be terrible for clinton's campaign. joining us now --

sisters-in-law, thank you very much for coming on the show today. >> our pleasure. >> thanks for having me. >> good to be with you. >> let me play one more sound bite of the president going after his cabinet. >> forget what's on it. irrelevant. some are highly classified and you go to jail for that. they near the state department. mike pompeo is not able to get them out, which is sad. i'm unhappy with him about that. >> barbara, why is the president still relitigating things that actually didn't really happen? >> not ohm that, jonathan, as you point out, hillary clinton is not on the ballot in 2020. it's relitigating something that happened in 2016.

i think he's going back to the greatest hit, reminding people he's not a democrat. it's not so much support for him as it is hatred for the other side. it's completely irrelevant to the issues we're facing today. it's playing to the base. remember, decisions were made. no crimes were committed here. hillary clinton did do something that was improper by having a server in her home to have emails, but she never committed any crime. she wasn't acting as a spy. she wasn't sharing it with any of our foreign adversaries. it's been such a nonstory. it's been resolved for four years and it's a sign of desperation that he's regurjing that. something that occurred four years ago. >> you heard what the president said. he's always tweeting and

retweeting. he says, quote, where are all the arrests? can you imagine if the roles were reversed? shameful. joyce, your thoughts. >> one of the defining hallmarks is that we don't have to worry about the government putting us in jail without due process and without fair play. dwoep have to worried that we'll be thrown in prison like we hear about in authoritarian societies because of our political views or social views. that's the game that trump is changing. he's turning us into a country where it's become legitimate to locking up our political opponents simply because they oppose him. that is a darker sign that. is a reason to reject this really painful trajectory that we see with the trump administration.

>> and, jill, pick up on this. i'm sitting here thinking, how destabilizing is it to have the president of the united states browbeat not only the secretary of state but also the attorney general of the united states into going after his political rivals? >> going after political rivals is really a terrible, terrible thing do. as joyce said, it's a hallmark that we don't do that. one of the reasons he ee's go's after hillary again is he can't go after biden. he's going to try to relitigate the 2016 election. the department of justice is going to need a real makeover as soon as this election is made

over a if biden is elected because people are really in fear of what's going on. we've had active prosecutors saying they're getting pressure. you have the person who was number two in the investigation who resigned because of pressure from barr. during watergate, you had nicken having an enemies list. it was wrong then. it's wrong now. >> barbara, let me come back to you. "the new york times" had a story about the republican inquiry finds no evidence of wrongdoing. this is by biden -- i'm sorry. i thought this was about hillary clinton. but even still, hillary clinton, joe biden, president trump has been going after both of them for imagined crimes. and as this story goes, an

87-page report contains no evidence that he improperly manipulated. all ten witnesses testified neither mr. biden nor anyone else had altered american policy because of joe biden's son, hunter biden. that's involving ukraine and hillary clinton and other scandals. with the presidential of t flogging these controversies, what does it do to the left of the country? is the rest of the country even paying attention to what he's doing in this regard? >> i do.

that's why i think it's so haremful. he was trying to get an announcement of an investigation into joe biden because all he wants is a talking point. he knows the american people are too busy to pay aten to the manu s biden has had scandals too. that's all that president trump wants is pollute the airway with some scent of it. i think the media has become smarter on how to portray some of these things. in 2016 we saw a lot of headlines. i think this is a game.

president trump doesn't care about corruption. president trump is corruption. >> barbara, that's some tough talk, and i agree with you. joyce, there's a story in "the new york times" that i think is a real scandal. the headline is the department of justice will allow prosecutors to announce, quote, voter fraud before election day. and it says the justice department lawyer in washington said in a memo to prosecutors on friday, they could investigate suspicion of election fraud before votes are tabulated. that produced a decades-long policy. this is more evidence of the corruption of the department of justice, isn't it?

>> it's just like bausrb says. trump is about grabbing the headlines. he doesn't care about the substance. he and bill barr are trying to build a narrative that the election will be rife with voter fraud. maybe people will throw their hands in the air and say, i'm just not going to go vote, especially about covid, if the election isn't fair. the reality is nothing could be furtheren from the truth. in 2016, one in four voted by may. yet despite all of the searching trump and biden are doing to dig up voter fraud. they evenle not found so. it's nothing more than lies,

lies, and more lies. barr changed the long-standing doj policy that's served us well that keept the same p they anouchsed there had been voterle fraud. this is the sort of narrative that they're creating. and as barb says, it's corruption. >> i'm going to end with you. your pin is the scales of justice in balance. the narrative that joyce is talking about is, you know, how the justice department and president trump is knocking those scales out of balance. how worry ready you that the scales can't come back into balance? >> i believe they can come back into balance, and my pin is actually a little bit off-kilter

because that's what's happening right now. there's a lot of work to do to build the department of justice. it can be done. i don't feel the same way if president trump is re-elected. the dates he talks about and the tweets, including get my political opponents, that is just a real description of not democracy. it's a description of what authoritarians and dictators do. it's tote a prop gagapropaganda. >> jill wine banks, joyce vance,

thanks for being on. see the podcast that has everyone on it. after this short break we'll talk with former cia director john brennan about the domestic terrorists among a new civil war. that's next. new civil war. that's next. we made usaa insurance for members like martin. an air force veteran made of doing what's right, not what's easy. so when a hailstorm hit, usaa reached out before he could even inspect the damage.

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up next, the violent extremists too try to kidnap its governor and donald trump's response. more "am joy" after the break. g with the ninja foodi smart xl grill. eliminate the guesswork with the smart cook system. just pick your protein, select your doneness and let the grill monitor your food so you don't have to. and because it's a ninja foodi, it also turns into an air fryer. bring outdoor grilling flavors indoors

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the unfair money bail system. he, accused of rape. while he, accused of stealing $5. the stanford rapist could afford bail; got out the same day. the senior citizen could not; forced to wait in jail nearly a year. voting yes on prop 25 ends this failed system, replacing it with one based on public safety. because the size of your wallet shouldn't determine whether or not you're in jail. vote yes on prop 25 to end money bail. vote yes on prop 25 proposition 16 takes some women make as little as 42% of what a man makes. voting yes on prop 16 helps us fix that. it's supported by leaders like kamala harris and opposed by those who have always opposed equality. we either fall from grace or we rise. together. proposition 16 provides equal opportunities, levelling the playing field

for all of us. vote yes on prop 16. he said the president is complicit with extremists? >> well, anyone who gives safe harbor or encouragement to is complicit ands that precise what he did on the national stage in the middle of a presidential debate when he said, "stand by" nap was his message. it wasn't one of rebuke. it was one of rallying cry, and i think that's the dangerous part of this moment. good morning and welcome back to "am joy" i'm jonathan capehart. after a foiled kidnapping attend against her, michigan governor gretchen whitmer is calling donald trump complicit for his failure to unequivocally condemn white supremacy and terrorists.

seven men in daaddition to the x previously arrested a part of a plan to attack the michigan state capitol and instigate a civil war. part of a group called the wolverine watchmen who also support the bug ooboogaloo move even in the face of a thwarted attack on whitmer, trump couldn't pass up the opportunity to criticize her once more. this time in an interview with sean hannity thursday night. >> -- whitmer today complaining but our justice department arrested the people she was arrested by. it was my justice department that arrested them, and instead

goes and does her little political act and keeps her state closed, although we just won the big case, as you know, to open up michigan, because what she's doing is, is a horrible thing to the people. >> joining me now, a congresswoman and msnbc contributor and former u.s. attorney, and bellfar fellow and author of awe how to catch a russian spy" and former fbi special agent. thank you all very much for being here. congresswoman, start with you, because you were a bit prescient in all of this. let me play sound of you questioning attorney general bill barr. >> on two separate occasions after president trump tweeted liberate michigan, to subvert stay-at-home orders to protect the public health of people in

michigan, protesters swarmed the michigan capitol carrying guns. some with swastikas, confederate flags and one with a dark-haired doll with a noose around its neck. are you aware they called for the governor to be lynched, shot and beheaded? >> no. >> you're not aware of that. >> you was not aware. >> give me your reaction. when you heard the news about what federal authorities uncovered in michigan against the governor? >> well, jonathan, i want to say to governor whitmer i'm so glad that she and her family are safe, and i'm grateful to the men and women of the fbi for thwarting this plot. secondly, it is ridiculous that attorney general bill barr told me that he knew nothing about what was happening at the michigan state capitol when clearly an investigation was under way, and an investigation

like that, of such scale, such magnitude, would not have been -- i can't imagine how that would have been possible to have happening without his knowledge. so it seems he either lied to me, or he really has never been focused on the business at hand which is, of course, one of the things i went on to question him about. he refuses to pay attention to the threat of white sprupremacy and be domestic terrorism yet wasgassing for a black lives matter protesters who were legitimately protesting the death of george floyd at that time. i think that this san issue with this justice department. they have refused to do anything about white supremacy. why, jonathan? because the president refused in any way, not just to condemn the

white spree supremacist groom g groups, but encouraged them. he defended kyle rittenhouse, a 17-year-old, accused of fatally shooting two people during the protests over the police shooting of another unarmed black man, jacob blake. he refused to condemn the proud boys and called da candidate for the u.s. house a rising star when she embraces k s qanon. >> and expand on something the congresswoman just said. questioning the attorney general's lack of knowledge of an operation as big as the one that went down in michigan. is it credible that the attorney general of the united states didn't know about that

investigation that was happening? >> no. it would be defying all normal protocols of the justice department. that's a very significant case. it's also a case that would require coordination with the national security division, and so headquarters would be very involved in a case like that certainly the agents in the field, prosecutors in the field handling operations but getting guidance and certainly providing notice there. now, in his defense, perhaps he didn't want to reveal they were investigating -- >> i was just about to ask you that. go ahead. >> and i also -- advise everyone to always take special note of the precise words that william barr uses. he may have, i think the question involved lynching and beheading. he would say, never heard anything about a lynching or beheading. this was a kidnap be plot to put her on trial. careful precision of words used.

may have been able to justify, i didn't want to disclose we were on to this group, but what i do take exception is president trump saying it was "my" justice department and "my" fbi that intercepted this plot and came to the defense of governor whitm whitmer. it's not his. it's america's justice. when he thinks about it as an arm of "his" to use, of his own tool to use is where president trump's perspective on law enforcement is so warped and a tool to advance his political agenda. not the case, of course. it is to protect all americans including the governor of our state. >> right. in fact, before governor whitmer took a hammer to president trump she spent the bulk, beginning of her comments, thanking law enforcement and federal officials for blowing up the

plot, but also for protecting her and her family and the state. doctor, and then navid. talk more about the president's role. i think the congresswoman who talked the reason bill barr doesn't go, take white supremacy seriously is because, well, the president doesn't. how vital is it to the boogaloo movement and the far right groups to have the president of the united states giving them ral tore rhetorical cover? doctor? >> extremely vital. they see the president as an ally in the white house, an administration that repeatedly denied facts and evidence. it took several drafts of the most recent department of homeland security report on the greatest threat to the united states, which is the right wing movement to acknowledge that. the language in the draft finally disseminated was watered down.

calling them white supremacist extremists and other labs suggest home-growns, not necessarily white supremacists. you probably know, all 50 states have statutes in place that in constitutional provisions, they can be used to control the militias. the fact the administration is not thinking about it or doing that and instead standing up a private army to respond to cities with cynical unrest echoes what was initially a dog whistle, it's become a bull horn from the white house and they're taking every single thing he says. go to their websites, you'll see it repeated. they understand they van ally and friend if not a corroborator in the white house. >> doctor, stick with you one moment. do you think, then, these folks and others like them out there in the country, should they be flat out designated called

terrorists? >> first, they fit the dev definition. violence or threat of violence to attack a civilian with a political objective. understand militias a little more. not the same as excessing defense of property. they operate under authority of the president or the governor. if it doesn't, it's just an armed mob. 1893 the united states establish ed those here to eoretically ca the president. others are illegal and should be treated as such by the authority. >> navid, finally bringing you in here, into the conversation. love your thoughts on all of this, but also the reason why the government was able to expose this plot and bring it to an end is because they were able to infiltrate these groups.

how does the federal government do that? how do they get people on the inside to then disrupt, really, almost fatal plots like this? >> you looked at the parallel. this is counterterrorism. maybe these groups weren't standing by afterall. no al qaeda but y'allqaeda. looking to takal governor of one of our states. look at it nos just as the 3%, the proud boys, individual groups or a movement. frankly a movement not just here to disrupt the election but will stay after the election and it's dangerous. it seeks to overthrow white nationalism very clearly, jonathan, a movement that seeks to establish a white state.

very different from white supremacy, like the kkk see anyone in white as subhuman. this is is a different type of movement. we have to start taking this serious aand seeing that these groups are connected just as we would in terrorism. post-9/11 we created the aumf, authority to use military force. we've droern droned people for . part of this is prioritizing these groups for infiltration, work three years undercovkov ec into these groups and report back. the president flat out calls these people in action. you need someone to prioritize much as bill barr is not, prioritize these groups for law enforcement. we have to go after them. there are many, many, many tools that can be used to make sure that these plots don't happen. look, the one thing we've

learned, jonathan, we understand this, law enforcement has to be right 100% of the tilme. we can't afford one misstep. thank goodness they were able to detect this and be stop it, law enforcement. what happens the next time jl we have to be there and successful 100% of the time. to do that you need leadership to designate it and prioritize it as something law enforcement goes after. >> congressman, to navid's point. no matter who wins this election in 20-some odd days, these far right groups are still going to be out there and especially if former vice president joe biden does indeed become the next president of the united states. he is going to have to deal with them. how confident are you that a biden administration, or a post-trump america, will be able

to get these right wing folks under control? they've been stoked by the president for three and a half years, given rhetorical cover and given fuel and energy. th they're going to be amped up if he's no longer president of the united states? >> that's right. it's a continuing serious threat. no doubt in my mind that a president biden and vice president harris would absolutely take this seriously. would do everything in their power to empower the agencies of the federal government to address this serious threat. i mean, christopher wray testified, fbi director christopher wray, testified before the house in september, and said at that time that white supremacy was the number one threat to the country. domestic terrorists. a threat to the country. we see it again in this report that was just released by the department of homeland security, and yet jonathan, if i were to get a dollar for every time that seattle or portland was razed or

this term antifa, which is not -- it is not a comparable term in the least on so many levels. you know, i would be a very rich woman. so the reality is, that it will take a lot of work to fight back against the momentum that these right wing, white supremacist groups, white nationalists, to navid's point. it's a very point poinimportant. there's a real goal here and we'll welcome a few people from qanon into the u.s. house of representatives and those people still have not been condemned or distanced from the republican party. this is not something that's going away quickly. no question in my mind with the president biden we will at least start to really address this, and take it on, and have the leadership from the white house that says, this is absolutely not appropriate, and dangerous

to our democracy. >> the congresswoman said something i think is really important. she said, basically, antifa. there's nothing comparable between antifa and the far right groups that are armed to the teeth and now a plot's been foiled. first, barbara, for the people who are watching, safe to say that a lot of folks watching have family members who probably hurl the term antifa in their faces as a way of saying, both sides are at fault here. give those folks the language they need to push back on this notion that antifa is somehow the left's equivalent to the people who were just arrested for plotting to assassinate the governor of michigan. >> i think it all comes down, jonathan, not to believes but contact. who is using violence to

intimidate a government? that's the crime you focus on. people have all kinds of political views whether far right or far left. law enforcement is concerned about those who use acts of violence and that's what we're seeing with this group that has been arrested in michigan. plotting to kidnap the governor. that goes way beyond speaking out and protesting. that's the kind of contact that matters and the concern i think about this movement. that they are talking about gathering guns, gathering womenewome weapons, fighting back from communities they consider to be governments's oppression. >> ten seconds each? >> barbara's right. talking about vernacular also. antifa, a war on terrorism. can't have a war on strategy. we know the wolverine militia is an organization and atari a militia. organizations that can be

targeted, investigated and they are. the notion of antifa just one that plays into the president's playbook and nonsensical as director wray testified to saying antifa is not a terrorist organization, not an organization it's an ideology. >> and navid? >> when the president comes out says he condemns all extremism he's condemning nothing. if he doesn't specifically come out and go after this group he's ekwiv equivocating and have more than a dog whistle. it's a call to arms. >> thank you very much for being on the show this morning. and a quick programming note, i believe. we had been talking about the fact that former cia director john brennan would be on the show. he had-the -- a scheduling issut we'll have this important discussion soon. unfortunately, he wouldn't be

able to make it today. hope to connect with him in the future. coming up, kamala harris hits trump where it hurts. stick around for this one. that's after this break.

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this is about a pattern of donald trump's where he has referred to our men who are serving in our military as suckers and losers. donald trump who went to arlington cemetery and stood above the graves of our fallen heroes, and said, what's in it for them? because, of course, you know, he only thinks about what's in it for him. >> senator kamala harris must have gotten under trump's very thin skin at the vice presidential debate on wednesday. after she outlined his

consistent belittling of our armed forces he uploaded this rambling video to his twitter account the next day. >> we've spent $2.5 trillion over the term in office, my term, that's over three yav yan half year es. took over a depleted military. broken quip, even the army, brand new uniforms with the belt. everybody wanteded belt. >> that same morning on fox business the commander in chief suggested that gold star families who have lost a loved one serving in the military cov diagnosis after he invited them to a maskless indoor reception it's a the white house. >> a met with gold star families. i didn't want to cancel that. they come within an inch of my face at times, want to hug me and kiss me and they do, and

frankly, i'm not telling them to back up. i'm not going it. >> joining me now is paul rykoff, iraq war veteran and host of the angry americans podcast. paul, thank you very much for being here. i'm just going to let you have at it. your response, at least to that last bit that we heard of what the president had to say about gold star families. >> well, i say it all the time. it you're not angry you're not paying attention. seems every week he finds a new reason to make america angry, insulted, outraged. when it comes to our military this is a very, very special, unique, populist issue when it comes to politics, jonathan. i think he knows this hurts him. anytime he hears suckers and losers, hears stories about the gold star families it kind of hits hi freak out button. his mayhem, lack of integrity, loyalty, lack of respect for anything is on display in no more vivid form than what we're

talking about, our military. talking about belts. saying that gold star families gave him covid? i mean, this cuts to the core of the terrible human being that he is, and it's revealed around issues of our military, our national defense and our security more than maybe anything else about his character. >> you know, paul, when the "atlantic" article came out. we got the language, suckers and losers, it was a bombshell. but the fact that my paper, the "new york times," other papers and other news organizations, were able to corroborate it like that, told you just how true this was. but one thing i want to know from you, as a veteran and the community that you are a part of, what does it say? what does this news say to veterans? the president talk as good game about standing with the armed forces. but do the armed forces, veterans, current enlistees do they feel like the president of

the united states? the commander in chief, that he actually stands with them? >> well, they're not a monolith. starting point. support among that community just like any other community in america for the most part continues to drop. it's not just his words. words matter but it's his behavior and policies. he continues to attack john mccain. he took money away from the pentagon and sent it down to his wall project. pulled troops out of jgermany there to depend most part against russia and serve as strategic pad. right before the debate tweeted he'd pull everybody out of afghanistan by christmas. the pentagon didn't even know it's coming. constant chaos, lack of coordination, integrity, lack of discipline. that should bother everybody most. lack of discipline. it can always get worse. if you think it can, remember,

this is the man with control of our nukes. if it doesn't outrage you, deeply concern you how much can happen between now and the election and into january you're really not paying attention. the stakes can always get higher and worse. that's why our enemies celebrate. every day he's commander in chief, enemies love it. putin loves it, kim jong-un loves it. al qaeda couldn't have asked for a better relationship happen that our joint chiefs of staff quarantining because they may have been exposeds to covid thanks to the president's leadership. >> your point about the military not being a monolith. 37% say donald trump, 2% skipped it. and since you mentioned the late senator john mccain. look what cindy mccain, his widow had to say in a political ad calling for honoring our

troops. have a watch. >> my husband knew joe biden a long time. they traveled thousands of miles together visiting troops overseas, and they developed the kind of friendship you don't see too often. now more than ever we need a president who will put service before self. a president who will lead with courage and compassion. not ego. a president who will respect the sacrifices made by our service members and their families. a president who will honor our fallen heroes and a president who will bring out the best in us, not the worst. >> now, paul, i point out that that ad we just showed just came out this morning. so how important is it that cindy mccain, a republican, her late husband was the 2008 republican presidential nominee, but the fact she's out there with a campaign ad in support of the democratic presidential

nominee, joe biden, says something. how important is that endorsement? >> i think it's important. it's not just moving people in the military and veterans. it's moving people who care about the military and veterans. those can be people, maybe still some undecided folks especially pennsylvania, florida, arizona. you might be able to move people with a powerful ad from cindy mccain. arizona in play. cindy mccain could move the electorate in that state. it's significant. i don't think there's anymore winning populist issue for democrats than this, losers and suckers, veterans, gold star families, smart to rav it it up. kamala harris smart to go on the attack and joe biden in good position to do the same because he son actually went to iraq. beau biden served in iraq while trump's kids were back home getting rich. a cleavage smarter to expose and hammer and open up, much bigger than about the election. that's the core here.

jonathan, that no matter who wins we'll have a really volatile situation in this country and need someone we can trust and who understands and responsibly uses our military and the national defense of this country. >> paul rykoff, great to see you. thank you for coming on the show this morning, you, ph. >> you, too, my friend. flat out giving up on democracy. how do i register to vote? hmm!.. hmm!.. hmm!.. (woman on porch vo) can we vote by mail here? (grandma vo) you'll be safe, right? (daughter vo) yes! (four girls vo) the polls! voted! (grandma vo) go out and vote! it's so important! (man at poll vo) woo! (grandma vo) it's the most important thing you can do!

every weekend between now and election day my friend and colleague ali velshi is covering the country speaking to voters in crucial swing states. ali, where are you going next? >> tomorrow i continue my velshi across america tour in detroit, three days after 13 men were plotting to kidnap the governor gretchen whitmer. speaking with the lieutenant governor garland hillcrist saying the president's facial to condemn white supremacists and

these private militias makes hicks complicit in that foiled attack, and speak with voters about trump's call to "open up the state" as covid cases are surging across michigan and neighboring nats across the midwest. jonathan? >> a lot going on. thank you for that update. tune in tomorrow at 8:00 a.m. eastern time for velshi across america, live from michigan. coming up, this election, democracy itself, hangs in the balance. stay with us. ur j this game's boring. only pay for what you need. liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. i'll be eating chicken tikka masala with garlic naan. [doorbell chimes] cheers. i win again, patrick. that's siiir patrick. oooooow. sir.

if vice president is declared winner and president trump refuses to accept a peaceful transfer of power, what would be your role and responsibility as vice president? what would you personally do? >> when you talk about accepting the outcome of the election, i must tell you. senator, your party spent the last three and a half years trying to overturn the results of the last election. i think we're going win this election and president trump and i are fighting every day in courthouses to prevent joe biden and kamala harris from changing the rules creating a universal mail-in voting creating massive voter fraud. >> just 24 days before the election the president and now the vice president refused to explicitly say they will accept results of the election and commit to a peaceful transfer of power. is this america's vision for democracy?

joining me to make sense of it is stewart stephens senior adviser for the lincoln project a author of "it was all a lie." thank you for coming on this morning. the reason why i wanted you on the show is, one, because of that clip we showed from the debate, but the second reezing reason is this tweet from yew taut senator mike lee, we're not a democracy. followed by, democracy isn't the objective. liberty, peace and prosperity, misspelled are. we want the human condition to flourish. rank democracy can thwart that. what in the -- i can't curse on tv. what's going on? >> i tweeted in response to that. that basically is, sums up the position of the communist party and the soviet union for 75 years. you don't need democracy.

to help the people. i really -- what's happening now in the republican party, when you're in the middle of something it's always difficult to really understand it, but it is a complete moral collapse of a party unlike anything we've seen, i think in american history. strangely, i think the only thing you can compare it to is the collapse of the communist party in the soviet union where what people said the party was for and what the party was for was just so disparate. i mean, i can't believe. i joined a party with ronald reagan and now we have a party where they refuse to accept the outcome of the election? you have the vice president an hour and a half to denounce the proud boys. never did it. you have a senior senator from utah who is coming out against democracy. it's extraordinary. it's just -- amazing collapsing

of a party. >> one of the things you didn't mention is also the fact that you have the president of the united states who's demanding and seemingly commanding his attorney general and also his secretary of state to go after his political enemies? >> yeah. look, donald trump has never understood what it is to be an america. he's sort of a classic example as is rupert murdoch, unassimilated immigrant. never adopts american values. he's a gangster, a thug. would you be surprised in tony is a pre pr soprano was saying this? no. that's donald trump. in our society parties have to form a certain circuit breaker function. stand for something other than election. the republican party completely failed on this and continues to fail on it, and i think donald

trump knows if there's a crisis post-election, he can count on barr to be his right-hand man and the republican party to go along with whatever he wants to do. >> and a tweet from congressman lee of utah. popped into my in box last night, headline, we're coming guns loaded, packed, to confirm barrett, judge amy coney barrett, to the court said senator hyde-smith? >> i'm a seventh generation mississippian and so glad that there's newspapers, news media outlets like that still in mississippi. it's outrageous. smith incredible disappointment as a senator.

i don't think ten people could pick her out of a lineup including senators. senators, governors and others in mississippi i am all-in for espy and hope people support him in mississippi. you end up with a plot to capture, kill, a michigan governor. it's, words have cons confession consequences. we said words can help bring down the soviet union, bring down the berlin wall and now sort of act like, well, words don't matter. they do matter. >> they do matter. and less than 30 seconds left. let me get your thoughts quickly on the president holding a 2,000 invitee rally at the white house, speaking from the truman balcony? >> yeah. look, people ought to vote in this election like their life

depends on it, because it may very well. a president in complete denial, and left to his own devices, he will continue to fail on covid, and with deadly results. it's really your own life that's on the ballot. >> always great to see you. thank you very much for coming on the show today. before we go to break, i want to play this new ad from the joe biden campaign starring some of the mayors who have endorsed him. >> black women have always been on the front lines for social justice. >> it's what we do. >> we organize. >> make phone calls and, yes -- run for office. >> all while being -- >> stand up. >> systemic racism. >> fight for health care. >> and justice for. >> all our citizens. >> and use our power. >> our right. >> our responsibility. >> plaque women, let's vote. >> vote. >> for joe biden and kamala harris. >> all: your turn, fellas. >> okay. >> okay.

we got this. >> all: fellas. >> brothers, we've heard our sisters, mothers, wives and daughters cry out for equality. >> across the country. now it's our turn. >> our responsibility to take our power back. >> black women vote more than black men. >> time we change that. >> don't give your power away. >> every single vote counts in this election. >> show up. >> show out. >> and vote. >> all: for joe biden and kamala harris. >> wow. all while being fly. that was fantastic. another former mayor on team biden joins me here tomorrow. pete buttigieg on "am joy." up next, telling me how others are getting out to vote. others are getting out to vote.

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this november 3rd, everything is at stake. we are surrounded by chaos.

we are being governed by selfish who peddle misinformation. >> jesus, honey, too much! >> too much? >> yeah. it's all of this fear and scary -- aaaeh. >> isn't that what it is? >> yeah, but that's part of the problem, right? >> not only putting out good videos to get out the vote, also you can help by volunteering, from home. in the final weeks before the election. joining me now are married actors and activists mandy patinkin and katherine groady. thank you very much for being here. >> thank you. >> thanks for having us, jonathan. good to be here. point out before i forget, because i forget things. that video you showed a little clip of was made by ewen write and our son gideon groady patinkin, wrote it, directed it

together and just want everybody to know they're a part of our effort. >> terrific. terrific. so why make these -- i love your videos. i love it. especially that last one, because, ms. groady, you flip out. >> it evidently speaks to how a lot of people feel right now. >> right. so why jump in to this effort in this way? >> why jump into it? i guess because -- sorry. go ahead. >> no, go ahead. >> because the world's on fire. our country's on fire. democracy is at stake. we've never been in a more crisis situation. covid-19's taken 212,000 lives already, and god knows how many more it will take. we have a person who is completely against the truth, doesn't denounce white supremacists, doesn't care about our country, everything we standard for. we cannot let this rest, and our

anxiety level is peaking, and how we calm it down is to take action with working with swing left and last weekend's dot org, anyone can go to those websites. sorry. my son corrected me, the last weekend dot org. saturday, week from today, 17th, last day to sign up. if everybody just works three hours in these next three weeks you can't imagine the difference it will make. >> go ahead, kathryn. oh -- did their shot freeze up? can we get them back? all right. well, as we try to get their signal back up, because kathryn groady was about to add on to what her husband mandy patinkin was saying about their effort to volunteer to get people to vote,

hopefully should we get them back or go to break? tell me what to do, control room. ah! here they are. yes, we can see you. >> my fault. we might be a little smaller. say what you were saying. >> yes. go ahead, kathryn. >> this is important. why i do it? why i raised sons to be citizens, good participating citizens. my dad was a first generation immigrant landed on d-day on no normandy dawe he believed in democracy and every citizen had a responsibility to vote. that's why i'm doing this. i really care about democracy and i'm shocked to see a senator like mike lee not care it! >> absolutely. and can i also say, hold on. take this down a little bit so you don't see so much of our ceiling. the other thing is -- i just -- lost -- the level of anxiety that we all are sharing, every tweet, every moment that

comes out, every live lost, et cetera, et cetera. how do we deal with that anxiety? how do we get through the day? we're alive and don't want to miss a single minute of our lives. this last action dot org, writing letters, my son gideon helped me get on a phone bank and do a phone bank system pap lady in georgia named wendy. all the software. amazing what's set up. i said, are you registered? yes, i think so. can i check for you? i checked. she actually had the wrong address. if you didn't have the right address on your registration, your vote wouldn't count. she stayed with me on the phone for about a half hour. i went through all the bells and whistles. she was so polite and chind akii saved her vote. i cannot tell you, cannot put it into words how thrilling for me to save one vote, and her kindness, generosity, sensitivity and her caring for our country and our democracy and her vote.

it mattered to her and it made me high as a kite! i had three people hang up on me after that, but it didn't matter. >> i was about to ask. how has reaction been to the people you're calling? kathryn, what are you hearing from people? >> people are, you know, i think partly because people are so isolated in this horrible covid moment, that they're a little more open getting calls from strangers. you sort of feel, jonathan, like you are part of a community. and we can disagree about policies. we can disagree that, how to fix all that's wrong here, but we need to have a democracy in order to fix things, and i think all the volunteers and phone banking and letter writing and fund-raisers is making people reassured that there are more people that understand democracy, sets the stage for all kinds of voices to have reasonable, civil conversations with each other, and it's a good

thing. it makes people feel good. >> my best friend was part of my father's group, a man named mark kerrington who started msnbc. the building in jersey named after him and stayed alive until his last dieing breath and took that strength to sit up in his bed and waited for us to come there and he looked at us a in the eye and said to these two crazy folk hes he loved, he sai have fun. in the middle of this concerning time, and particularly in our country it is important to follow mark's words and have fun. and you can do it. we have things i wanted to read it to you so i don't get it wrong. >> last weekend, the last weekend at 8:00 p.m. on i forget the -- on tuesday, the 17th at 8:00 having a big launch. stacey abrams will be there. we'll be there. >> element three, control room. >> and -- >> what? >> go ahead. keep talking, mandy. we have that info. >> other fun things that will click in, if you go to last

weekend, the laughed last weekend dot org, jamie lee curtis. >> cast of "american idiots" and ways to have fun saving your lives, saving your grandchildren's future, saving your country's democracy. >> uh-huh. >> it can be fun. >> it's not going to be fun without democracy. >> well, that's for -- for sure. >> and we have -- go on. go on. >> mandy, quick. mandy and kathryn. two things. one, quickly, your reaction to what's going to happen today on the truman balcony, the president speaking from the balcony to 2,000 people? can i tell you something, i don't give a shit -- i'm sorry. >> you can't say that. >> hold on. i don't give a damn. i just did it. i don't give a damn what trump says on the truman balcony today or any other day, because he doesn't speak the truth and this day for me is a glorious -- what are you going to say?

>> excuse me, jonathan -- it's irresponsible! it's spreading covid! >> irresponsible. >> go ahead. >> stop listening to donald trump. stop listening and get out the vote. tell your friends to vote. and don't give up until everyone you know votes. >> mandy patinkin, kathryn groady, thank you both so very much for being on the show today. we got to go. mandy, got to go. really sorry. >> got to go. okay. ten morn seconds, but i don't get t. and stacey abrams and tuesday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern. i'm really sorry, audience, for the salty language, the bad language there that you heard in that, in that segment. that's our show for today. more "am joy" tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. eastern. for now, stay tuned for my friend alex witt. her guests will include former trump attorney michael cohen.

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vote yes on 15. taking california for a ride. companies like uber, lyft, doordash. breaking state employment laws for years. now these multi-billion-dollar companies wrote deceptive prop 22 to buy themselves a new law. to deny drivers the rights they deserve. no sick leave. no workers' comp. no unemployment benefits. vote no on the deceptive uber, lyft, doordash prop 22. one ride california doesn't want to take. good day earn from msnbc world headquarters here in new york. high noon just about in the east. welcome to weekends with lx. t alex witt. the president resuming in-person appearances. what about his covid test results? joe biden on the road weighing in on trump's decision. >> good luck.

make sure -- i wouldn't show up unless you had a mask and kept your distance. what is the matter with this guy? and michael cohen joins me to talk about the final weeks of the 2020 election and whether the president really wants to win. plus what is it about the trumps that drive so many people away? but we begin this hour at the white house where in just two hours the president will hold his first in-person event since being diagnosed with coronavirus and this jut five days after leaving the hospital. the "new york times" reporting hundreds of supporters are expected to attend. what is essentially a campaign rally, this from the white house balcony. far as we and the public know, the president is stid ll infect with the virus, all amid new fallout from the rose garden ceremony just two weeks ago today nearly a u.s. issen who atte atte attended the eve