>> note that you have revealed from your doctor which says you are no longer considered a transmission mirisk. does this suggest you no longer have covid? >> yes. not only that. it seemed like i'm immune. i can go way out of a basement, which i would have done anyway, which i did. because you have to run a country. you have to get out of the basement. it looks like i'm immune for, i don't know, maybe a long time. >> this despite a conflicting message from the president's doctor overnight who says trump is no longer at risk for transmitting the virus. he did not indicate whether the president has tested negative for covid-19 and does not say what treatment, if any, he is currently lly undergoing. new polling today shows biden ahead of trump by six points in michigan and nevada and tied in iowa. see the numbers.

new national polling shows joe biden leading the president by 12 points, 54-42. on capitol hill, lawmakers are gearing up for the supreme court nomination hearing of judge amy coney barrett. that starts tomorrow. she just this morning releasing her opening statement, writing in part, the policy decisions and value judgments of government must be made by the political branchs elected by and accountable to the people. the public should not expect courts to do so. courts should not try. we will go back to the president's remarks. jo josh, good sunday to you. we have a lot to cover in the interview. first up on the president's health, what is he saying? >> reporter: healed, cured, free, immune. these are words the president has been using today and in the last 24 hours or so, to try to project an image of himself as in tip top shape as he returns

to the campaign trail. the president even declaring in a tweet a few minutes ago that his doctors have given him a total and complete signoff. i can't get it, immune and can't give it. the president is mischaracterizing what his doctors have actually said. at least what they have told the public. the most recent memo that we got from the president's physician, they did not say that the president was immune. they did not say that the president had even tested negative. instead, suggesting the president is no longer considered a transmission risk to others. but caveating that by saying, that's based on current cdc guidelines, based on basic, current standards, not going as far to make these more extreme claims that the president has been making. take a listen to what he told another network a few minutes ago about how he is doing in the days after this virus. >> i passed the highest test, highest standards.

i'm many great shape. i feel fantastically. i really feel good. i even feel good by the fact that the word immunity means something, having really a protective glow, it means something. i think it's very important. >> reporter: the current position from the cdc is we do not know what type of immunity people who recover from covid-19 get and for how long. dr. fauci in the last few days, he has warned this image of the president quickly defeating this virus and not really having to worry about it anymore could be creating some concern for americans who might not take some of what they need to do as seriously because of what they are seeing from the president. this is a precondition for the president to go out over the next few days to resume the kind of rigorous campaign schedule that the president wants to do, virus or not. the president kicking off his resumed campaign schedule on monday with a rally in florida

wit more rallies in pennsylvania and iowa. they are states the president won in 2016 and where he is trailing or tied with joe biden this year. >> josh, thank you for the setup on everything from the white house. we will talk with a doctor now about all of this. i appreciate your time. joining me now, dr. naheed badelia. with a welcome to you. the president says he is now immune to the coronavirus. is that possible? what do we know about immunity in anyone who has had the virus? >> good afternoon, alex. there's two parts of the letter and the president's statements that are important. i want to stress on the letter, before addressing immunity, the letter from the doctor yesterday basically says, it doesn't say the president tested negative on the pcr test.

what i interpret that as saying is that he tested positive and they have advanced diagnostics that allowed them to quantify the amount of virus he has. that seemed to be lower level. they did advanced diagnostics and tests we use in my field are viral culture tests that look to see if the virus -- people can survive this disease and then just be shedding dead virus. they look to see whether the virus they were collecting from the -- they were collecting virus -- did not seem to be actively replicating. that's are good signs. it means that they used diagnostics that are not used in regular americans because the president falls in the guideline per the cdc for severe patients that they should quarantine for up to 20 days. the concern that i have is, as you said, as josh said, there's this painting of a picture that he is now immune and can't transmit to others. there are a couple of ways to

address the first part of this. we think most people that potentially survive this disease do have an effective immune response, at least in the short-term. they are immune to it. we don't know how long that immunity lasts, because we are starting to see some cases of reinfection. the farther away we move from the beginning of the pandemic, we may figure out more. there's no way to tell if a person will have an effective immune response or not. we haven't completely nailed down what we should be looking for to ensure that someone is going to have long-lasting immunity in and individual patient. the concern i have is that this -- the president is still treating the scenario in which the disease can transmit. we are entering a second week where the cases are increasing. we are above 50,000 cases daily. hospitalizations have been going up for 13 days. icu admissions have been going up. this is the precipice of the fall we are concerned with. when the president going on the campaign trail and brings this

big rally together, he is creating the environments that even if he is not the one transmitting, the virus is getting transmitted. we are going down the road that the ihme predicts will lead to doubling the number of deaths in the pandemic so far before the end of the year. >> i want to ask you about the fact the president says he is no longer taking medication. is that typical for anyone at this stage of dealing with the virus? >> from what we know from president's treatment, he received the course. i believe that. in those aspects of it. just because someone is off the medications doesn't mean the saga that we have with covid-19 infections shown -- even in those with mild cases, three weeks out people had ongoing symptoms. we know 10% of the people who survive this have long covid that results in basically debilitating symptoms for

longer. >> much longer period of time. does this feel fast to you? this is a 74-year-old obese man. does it seem fast? >> it does. i think there's two parts of this. one thing is that the president had access to the kind of care that most people in the u.s. don't have access to, potentially some may be losing that access come november. the other part is there seems to be a spin of undermining the severity of covid, which is harmful. if people don't recognize which all of us doctors and public health experts have been saying that for some folks, their course may not be the same as the president's. painting this rosie picture, underplaying -- downplaying the severity of the course of the president, has been potential side effects for the country. >> how about what eric trump said this morning, which was that his father has taken a coronavirus vaccine.

let's listen to this. >> my father started day one creating this vaccine. he worked to push this vaccine. now my father just took it. you see how well he got over it. >> wait, wait. can you -- >> i think as americans, we should be proud of that. >> you ccan you clarify? your father took a vaccine? >> when he was at walter reed. the medicine he was taking. on saturday, i spoke to the man three times. he sounded tremendous. it goes to show the power of medicine in this country and how far that we have come on covid in the last six, seven months. >> is he really taking about a vaccine? could he be mixed up talking about antibodieantibodies? how did you interpret that? >> i understood that he is probably referring to the antibodies which operation warp speed has been working on. vaccines are only available from

being enrolled in trials. we hope we would make it available under emergency use to a larger population. of all the failures in the u.s. response, operation warp speed has been a success. i'm glad he made those inve investme investments. the thing that hurts is when the president comes out and touts the efficacy of drugs that haven't been proven, because that's undermining operation warp speed, trying to finish the trials to get the drugs and vaccines out to market. >> appreciate your expertise and insight. thank you. joining me, charlie savage, journalist with "the new york times" and katty kay. both are msnbc contributors. i'm happy to see both of you. it's good to see you.

you are an inside outsider. you are british but you cover the u.s. what's on your mind as the president is heading back out on the campaign trail this week, even though his doctors have not declared him officially free of the virus? >> i think everyone would like to know whether the president has had a negative covid test. generally speaking, people are cleared to go back out to their activities after contracting covid when they have had the negative test. the doctors are saying, he is fine, he can go out. i'm not sure it's going to change the race very much. we had the president doing a ton of rallies before he contracted covid. basically, the poll numbers have not shifted very much. can the president do anything over the course of the next three weeks? can he say anything? can he adopt any kind of attitude towards the coronavirus that's going to change people's minds? if this is a referendum on president trump and his handling

of the coronavirus, it's hard to see how he can change that. getting the coronavirus himself didn't shift the numbers in his favor. >> charlie, we heard it time and time again since 2016, the president has promised to drain the swamp. this "new york times" article, we will put it up for our viewers, it suggests the opposite. once mr. trump was in the white house, his family business discovered a lucrative new revenue stream. people who wanted something from the president. what did your colleagues uncover there? >> this is another of our stories spinning off from obtaining trump's tax returns, which he spent the last four or five years trying to keep from becoming public. what this particular angle showed was how much money he has raked in from people who have -- are seeking favors from the government, seeking appointments to be ambassadors, regulatory changes, by the fact he continues to own and operate his vast businesses, his hotels and

resorts like mar-a-lago, jacking up initiation fees and paying attention to who joins, whose groups come in, spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to host events inside these properties. then offering tremendous access of guests who can walk up to him at mar-a-lago or other resorts where he is constantly going to ask for favors and directing his administration to look into it and often, in fact, giving them what they want. the tremendous amount of money he has taken in from this activity -- we had a sense of that anyway. we knew some of the people who were there. the tax returns and some of the reporting by my colleagues added a lot of texture and detail to that. all the individual cases and groups and individuals who joined some of which had not previously been reported. >> it's an extraordinary article worth reading. katty, we have seen armed groups play a more visible role in

protests and rallies in recent months. raising fears of election-related violence. >> we are entering an increasingly volatile period of time. the ramp up to the election and then in particular the period of time between the election and inauguration looks like it has the potential for even more violence. that's what i'm hearing. i'm hearing law enforcement is preparing at the federal, state and local levels. >> i wonder how the rest of the world is processing the way this election is playing out here. do you get a sense people are shocked by some of the things happening in the united states in 2020? >> of course. american elections all command a huge amount of attention. there has never been anything like this one. the word is literally on tend tenderhooks to see what happens to american democracy.

the podcast, we are asking, is american democracy safe? the fact that we are asking that question, what does that tell you about the country? this is the country that other countries look to. this is the country that since the end of the cold war preached democracy around the world. now we have to ask, is democracy safe in this country, could it be undermined? one thing we learned during president trump's time in office is that democracy is partly rules, rules in the constitution, but it's also partly norms and traditions. this president has shattered those norms and traditions to a degree no president ever has. that is why you got somebody like frank warning of the prospect of violence. let's be clear. the department of homeland security said on tuesday before we had the announcement that govern governor whitmer had been the victim of a plot. it's white supremacy groups that are responsible for the overwhelming majority of

terrorist attacks in this country. more than any other that have caused lethal attacks in this country. that's where it is coming from. it has been stoked to some extent by members of this administration. i don't think anyone around the world is assuming that we are going to have a peaceful period between november 3rd and january 20th. >> how exhausted do you think the public is over all this? not just this co-vivid episode the way the president has been dealing with it? >> we're all exhausted. i think you only are to look at the polls to see part of the reason the president is losing support amongst two groups in particular, seniors and college-educated women, is because of the president's manner, personality, the fact that he is not the model of a traditional american president. that's why. to some extent, those groups are the ones who have looked and

said, they can remember, seniors, when george w. bush, bill clinton, barack obama looked and sounded like american presidents. they may not have agreed with their policies but they looked and sound like traditional american presidents. personality is a big reason you like an american president. it's also a big reason you dislike an american president. if we look at why seniors are abandoning him, that's part of the reason. >> charlie, same question to you with regard to exhaustion. can you put a finger on the pulse to that? the american public is exhausted. how many times have we heard, i wish this election was over with already? >> the memes and jokes about 2020 being the worst year ever are prolific. i think that resonates with the sense of exhaustion you are talking about. i think even though we are almost three weeks away from the election, it's going to get more intense. it's not going to be like three

more weeks of the same. it's going to be significant crazy ndz iness in the next few. i think we know it's coming. if the polls are to be believed and president trump is defeated next month and after 2016 everyone is cautious about putting too much confidence in the polls, the tremendous length of period that we will have between election day and inauguration day is only going to add to those things which might make one exhausted, i think. it's a flaw, really, in the american constitution that we have a long lag period between an election and the transfer of power. it's an opportunity for a lot of mischief, no accountability, on a bipartisan basis. president clinton's dubious pardons in january of 2000. what president trump will do in this period if he knows he is losing power imminently is only going to add to those things

which make people, i think, want to close their eyes and escape from it all. one of the places i would suggest people look for is pardons. there's no doubt if the michael flynn case is still going on or some of the people who have gotten in legal trouble for not cooperating with investigators about trump, like roger stone, who already had a commutation or paul manafort. i haven't heard a lot of discussion about this is i wonder if president trump, leaving office, will attempt to pardon the trump organization and his family and perhaps even himself. an open question whether he can do that knowing that his immunity from being charged by the justice department will evaporate when he is no longer president. >> that's very interesting. we will see what happens with that. bottom line, katty. exhaustion can lead to concern.

for some, a sense of fear about what might happen. do you have any fears? any of these many scenarios that are out there of what might happen? is there something that strikes fear for you? >> look, it's really hard for me to think that the united states could go into civil unrest over the transfer of power. something in me resists contemplating that. i wouldn't be surprised if we had incidents like the one we have seen in michigan with the governor this week where you get groups sparking small incidents of unrest around the country. i think if president trump really litigates this and refuses to accept the result and calls on his supporters as we have seen him kind of suggest in the past in the debate, that could prompt those incidents. massive civil unrest? i find that hard to see. >> charlie, i know you cover national security with the michigan attorney general who last week said in fact there was

this plot to kidnap the governor, it was actually a civil war attempt. how much was rhetoric? is that something americans should be worried about? >> i don't think we are going to have a civil war. i think what people should be worried about is just fringe people on the extremes who are stimulated by the extreme emotional stakes and partisan rhetoric the country has fallen into. that's true on both ends. anarchists who hijack black live matters to burn down courthouses, and white supremists. when thing are so fraught like now, it's possible for people on

the edges to go a little crazy. i think that's kind of what we saw in michigan last week. part of my own fear is we will see more of that in 2021 and going forward. one of the patterns of this militia-style violence is that 2 waxes and wanes depending on democrats or republicans are in power. the clinton area, oklahoma city. when bush came in, it ebbed a little bit. we may be back into that kind of a cycle. >> oh, boy. okay. charlie, katty, a great conversation. thank you so much. look forward to seeing you both soon. it was a warning to lawmakers before last week's militia arrest. how much of a threat are they to our democracy? i will ask a member of the house homeland security committee that question next. meland security ct question next. [ engine rumbling ]

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more than a dozen men are in

custody charged in the plot to kidnap governor whitmer. it shows most of the men charged have ties to anti-government group. they have been linked to domestic terrorism plots in an attempt to ignite what they believe will be a second civil war. joining me now, kathleen rise, a member of the homeland security committee. welcome back to the broadcast. let's get to what happened last month. as you know, fbi director christopher wray spoke to your committee about domestic terrorism threats. does what we are seeing here, does it fit into what he was warning about? >> good afternoon. thank you for having me. i think the fbi director made it very clear that the biggest domestic terrorism threat we have are these organizations that you are mentioning. these white supremacy groups, anti-government groups. they are the biggest domestic

threat we have in this country right now. instead of supporting the director, the administration is criticizing him, saying he doesn't know what he is talking about. i'm just for one very happy that we have someone like secretary wray, director wray who will actually call it like he sees it, because this case with governor whitmer, my thoughts go out to her and her family, is incredibly disturbing. every american should be disturbed by that. it's not terribly shocking given the rhetoric that's coming out of the white house and the rest of the administration. >> disturbed, yep. should we be afraid of groups like this, particularly surrounding this election? >> i think that there is a lot of fear out there, alex. what i would say to people is, look, every single state is taking precautions to ensure that every single voter can vote

safely, whether it's fear of covid or if there will be poll watchers, another thing the president is calling for. he is talking about putting together a 50,000 person army of poll watchers. what that means is he wants to intimidate voters and scare them so that they don't come out and vote. we can't have that in this country. that's the bedrock of our democracy. i am encouraging people to take advantage of your state's early voting. every state has early voting. here in new york, it starts on october 24th. go and you can do it safely. if you can do it safely, if you have health concerns, obviously, there's always an absentee ballot, which is what the president did. if it's good for him, it's good enough for any other voter. >> as "the washington post" points out, both parties are prepping for a contested election. listen to something joe biden

said yesterday about the election. >> the only way we lose this is by the chicanery going on relative to polling places. this whole idea, not a single solitary reasonable person in any party said mail-in ballots are corrupt. trying to put people in polling places. the same guys you saw standing, blocking people's way in virginia with banners and rifles slung across their shoulders. >> we want to know that biden said he will accept the results of the election. when it comes to the vice president referencing putting people in poling places, are there legitimate concerns about this? >> there are. when you hear the rhetoric coming out of donald trump's mouth, specifically about -- saying to people, you can't trust -- if i lose, it's a rigged election. what vice president biden said yesterday is restating the

obvious. there's no question that vice president biden, if he loses, will accept the loss. he will behave the way he has his entire public career. it's donald trump who we have to worry about and his reaction. homeland security -- there are a lot of resources the federal government can give to states and individual board of elections, whether it's for security, following cdc guidelines so people can vote safely, those resources are there. we are not -- the federal government, regardless what donald trump says, is not going to allow this election to be hijacked. >> let's look now at the negotiations over a new coronavirus relief bill. the latest proposal is for a $1.8 trillion plan. it's from the trump administration. there's senate republicans as well as nancy pill to elosi, th objected. you passed a $2.2 trillion bill.

how close is congress to reaching a deal? what are the sticking points? will this get done before the election? >> it's not looking very good, alex. the time is very short time frame. in the best circumstances, it's hard to get anything done in washington, certainly through weeks -- just over three weeks away from election. it's not looking likely. we have done our job in the house. we passed the original bill back in april. then we passed the mini bill last month. mitch mcconnell said thanks but no thanks. i'm encouraged that speaker pelosi and secretary mnuchin are still talking. i think even president trump understands that to abandon unemployed people, small businesses, our first responders, front line health care workers at a time like this in the middle of a pandemic would just be inhumane.

i'm hoping we can put it together. >> let me drill down into the airline industry. of course, the airlines have been forced to lay off tens of thousands of people. i want you to listen to what a furloughed flight attendant told me yesterday. it's heartbreaking. >> this is affecting my entire life. i get health care through my employer, my paycheck. i'm on day ten where i don't know if i'm going to have health care soon. i get monthly medications that cost over $1,000 that i can't live without. if i lose my health care. i lost my entire life and might lose my home. >> when you hear stories like that, do you think speaker pelosi should reconsider opposing -- rather opposing that piecemeal relief deal on the airlines and allow for something to move forward for them? >> i think there's definitely an appetite for a bailout. the airlines did nothing wrong. they are suffering from -- i don't remember ever a time when

the airline industry has been so jeopardized. i think that when you hear the voice of that woman who just lost her job, there's so many things tied to that. your health care. your pension. your paycheck. the ability to put food on the table. i think that we have to consider a standalone bill for the airlines to get them through. we need to keep people tethered to their job because we know how important it is for them to get a paycheck during this pandemic and critically to stay attached to their health care as well. >> absolutely. kathleen rice, regood very good you. a sad twist about president trump's response to the pandemic. that's next. at 2:00 eastern, this guy, michael moore will talk about the michigan militia plot and how he covered members of that over the years.

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new today, a big endorsement pore joe biden. pennsylvania needs joe biden from covid-19 to the environment to racial justice. donald trump has failed. let's go to my colleague from washington, deepa. this comes a day after joe biden's visit to erie. four days before the town hall in philly. was this unexpected? did they hope to get this? >> reporter: we have seen some reaction from a lot of biden staffers on social media celebrating this. we know biden is from scranton, pennsylvania. his campaign headquarters are in the state. he launched his campaign from this state. this is a campaign backyard endorsement, you could say. it's obviously a welcome one given the other slew of endor endorsement he received in recent weeks. you mentioned, of course, he will be in the state in philippoussfilphilly

this week, that comes after they announced the second presidential debate is going to be canceled. donald trump, after being diagnosed with coronavirus, will not be on stage with joe biden. they offered a virtual option and the president didn't want to take that. so we saw this debate get canceled. what you are seeing is joe biden decide to hit some of the airwaves in a different way. he will do this town hall in philly with abc. his campaign manager spoke about this earlier this morning and what the processes look like. take a listen. >> our demand of the cleveland clinic and the commission is that the trump campaign and everybody that they are bringing to the debate shows proof they are negative. we will let the cleveland clinic and commission work out exactly how that works. obviously, we are not interested in creating another moment where there's the potential for the spread of this virus. we have seen, unfortunately -- look at the white house on

september 26th. we have seen what happens when the appropriate precautions are not put in place. it's tragic. >> reporter: you hear there a little remarks on that front. joe biden himself, of course, will travel to philly. also just announced he will be in ohio tomorrow. the debate might not happen in person like planned, you still see the former vice president hitting the campaign trail. >> okay. thank you so much. the debating over more debates. are they necessary at this point? a person close to the biden camp responds on that. coming up for you next hour, pete souza talks about the new documentary in "the way i see it." he will give us a look at the president says of barack obama and ronald reagan. catch the commercial free p premiere friday night at 10:00 eastern on msnbc.

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we're not going to let donald trump write the rules. he doesn't get to set the calendar. we agreed to these dates back in june. we are not going to let him try to rewrite the rules. he pulled out of the debate. it's understandable. he doesn't want to answer questions from voters about his handling of covid and the economy. joe biden would have been there. he will be there taking questions from voters that night. he will be there on the 22nd. >> you heard it, reaction from the biden campaign on the cancellation of the second presidential debate. it was originally slotted for this thursday. the only time we will again see both candidates on a debate stage is october 22nd. just 12 days before the election.

joining me now, philippe rinus and chuck roka. always with the hat. i'm glad there's continuity. thank you guys. during hillary clinton's campaign, you played the role of donald trump in debate prep. why would biden want to participate in the last debate after what happened in the first time? the president does not sound like he is going to change his tune. why should biden take part? >> by most accounts, donald trump lost between and four and seven points after the first debate. i understand vice president biden's desire of debating donald trump. every time they are on stage together, it's a very stark contrast. he comes out winning from that. if i were joe biden, i would want to debate ten more times except the fact there's not enough advil in the world to

recover from that. usually the person trailing wants to debate because they need the opportunity. in this case, donald trump never misses an opportunity. frankly at this point, i'm not sure -- >> in terms of the advil, i'm not sure that was just for joe biden. it might have been for the rest of us listening. chuck, since the first debate, the president faced a very tumultuous week and a half. the national poll has him down 12 points. how much does he need a good debate? how much will not participating in this town hall coming up on thursday hurt him? >> there's a small group of undecided voters left. nobody in that first debate watched that and was like, yeah, i want to vote for that guy. it didn't help either one. there's no doubt joe biden performed better. it was a low bar when you had him just -- the president just screaming into the microphone. the president is behind, just like we have been talking about. the polls are just a snapshot in

time. these polls give a reflection on where we are. the state polls have been trending, one, two, five points toward joe biden. donald trump has to hope the independent republicans are going to come home to him and he can make that message to them in this debate. but he is walking away from it. they will hear the same old same old. >> the biden campaign has been side stepping the questions about packing the supreme court. let's listen to what he said about this yesterday. >> the only court packing going on is going on with republicans packing the court now. it's not constitutional what they're doing. focus on what's happening right now. the fact is that the only packing going on is this court is being packed now by the republicans. after the vote has already begun. i'm going to stay focused on it so we don't take our eyes off

the ball here. >> why not answer the question? is the strategy not to anger progressives or moderates? is he walking a tight political line here? >> i would make the argument he is answering the question in a way that most politicians wouldn't. he is answering the q in a way that most politicians wouldn't. i -- from a purely electoral perspective, you can make the argument that joe biden should say i am not going to pack the court or i don't have any plans to. because chuck talks about this sliver of independents or undecideds who, who knows why with 22 days left they can't make up their mind? so the safest thing for joe biden would be were to say no. then if he were to change his mind he could do so and then blame mitch mcconnell or whatever republicans and

senators have the problem. the least likely people who are going to overturn senate revision are the people who work there. i think joe biden credit for not doing what's expedient, possibly at the cost of some votes. >> do you think he is losing progressives if he were to answer the way you are saying? >> i am looking at the screen, i am on the right and chuck is on the right -- by the way, i was told to take off my hat, so it is not fair. >> i took mine off as well. >> i think what you are seeing is the party wants joe biden to be president. we all know donald trump is a failed experiment. we need joe biden in there. we don't think -- i would hope that there are any progressives

who say joe biden would not commit to packing or not packing the court and therefore i am going the stay home. i don't think there is any indication the that. democrats -- i hate to say it, donald trump might be right, the energy on the democratic to vote nine, ten, 11 times -- people just want him gone. >> what do you think about all this chuck. look, you were a bernie supporter. do you think progressives -- tell me where you think the position is of the progressives. are you concerned joe biden is not addressing them as forcefully as you might want him to? >> let me first say for all of the progressives with cowboy hats with funny accents -- we have one thing in common, to my brother's point, we all hate donald trump. we need to get rid of him before we can even begin to have a debate about what this party stands for and what is a progressive value. if i was being an adviser to joe biden like i was to senator sanders i would say why would

you want to answer anything that's hypothetical? don't answer anything about something that may or may not happen. but draw attention to the absurdity that is happening in the u.s. senate. they walked away from barack obama's nomination 300 days away from an election. and now they are going to do it with po days left. >> don't answer hypothetical questions. that is what joe biden is doing. chuck, phillipe, thank you for answering my questions. hope to see you again. how the keystone state has become more crucial in the race for the white house. next. more crucial in the race for the white house. next

well, the election is just 23 days away. as the "washington post" reports, pennsylvania is emerging as a possible tipping point this year. now both campaigns are increasing their focus on this battleground state. and msnbc's corey coffin joins us from state college, pen pens.

so the big question -- what are you hearing from voters there, cori? >> voters are complex here in the state of pennsylvania. they don't just vote along party lines. they are interested in hearing from the candidates. candidates are stepping up their ad campaign spending their in-person campaigning to win the votes from this state. the biden camp spending more, almost double the amount the trump campaign is spending in ads right now. the trump campaign answering by diverting funds from other states into pennsylvania. all of this -- when i spoke to pens pen voters, thisback backdrop and all of these issues weighing on their minds why they are going to continue to vote for trump despite being democrat and voting democrat in the past. listen. >> vice president biden has shown that he is willing to negotiate for money in other countries, but he's not been

willing to negotiate for business and bring our businesses back. the businesses that have fled, president trump has brought them back. and vice president biden has already said that he's willing to tax those businesses again to the point where theically. >> what joe biden are we going to believe? the one that right now wants to appease the left wing of his party? or the one that says he's a moderate? i don't know. he's everywhere. he's like a bucket of paint you just threw on a canvas. who knows where the hell he is going to come out. i don't think he knows where he is, period. >> now, joe biden does lead in all of the key battle ground state polling. but alex, we know how quickly that can evaporate. of course with the mail-in voting fights that are happening in pennsylvania this is someone -- this is going to be a state to watch. because it could extend beyond election night. tipping point, indeed. >> absolutely. interesting commentary from those two guests you had. thank you so much cori coffin.

it is a stunning new documentary to president trump's response to coronavirus. but should any of this film surprise you? >> >> grandparents! we want to put money aside for them, so...change in plans. alright, let's see what we can adjust. ♪ we'd be closer to the twins. change in plans. okay. mom, are you painting again? you could sell these. lemme guess, change in plans? at fidelity, a change in plans is always part of the plan.

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