♪ hi, there, everyone. it's 4:00 p.m. in the east. teddy roosevelt once said patriotism means to stand by the country, it does not mean to stand by the president. by that standard, only one of the men running for president is running in the campaign's closing days as a patriot. this is the ad joe biden launched last night during the world series. >> there is so much we can do if

we choose to take on problems and not each other. and choose a president who brings out our best. joe biden doesn't need everyone in this country to always agree. just to agree we all love this country. and go from there. >> i'm joe biden, and i approve this message. >> donald trump, in the other corner, has decided that the path winds its way through bombast, grievance, and pet prosecutions that are straining his relationship with bill barr. and donald trump is using air force one as his de facto campaign headquarters. as he rages against tony fauci,

60 minutes, covid, and bill barr, he's reflecting the mayhem of his campaign. trump, unhappy with questions from leslie stahl, threatens to release the footage. and perhaps the most heinous reminder of the trump presidency, nbc news is reporting that 4 -- 545 migrant children remain separated from their parents today. and trump is now losing to joe biden in the polls and in terms of campaign cash on hand. or, trump is losing to a man he denigrates by calling him sleepy in both the ratings and in terms

of their bank balances. and when president barack obama is hitting the trail today for joe biden. trump, biden, and the sprint to election day, we start with some of our favorite reporters and friends. phil rucker is here, and also join us, donna everts, and donna, i want to start with you. democrats are so anxious, made anxious by coverage of the polls, by acknowledging out loud where the race stands today. some tightening polls in florida and pennsylvania, which is to be expected. but nationally, a nine-point lead in some important key states that trump won last time, sizable leads for joe biden. does that come from a fear of suppressing turnout, or from a

democratic distrust of the polls? >> well, it comes -- it's born of experience. all of us experienced the polls heading into november in 2016. and we know what the results were. and we know that it's important to play this game, if you will, all the way through the closing buzzer. i think for democrats, there is a concern that talking about how much joe biden might be ahead could make some voters, especially at the last minute, say, oh, you know, i have something else to do on e"lectin day. and democrats don't want that to happen. we know the danger of this presidency, it's pointed out every day. and the way to win this thing is to get every single vote in, count every single vote, right up and through election day and beyond, obviously.

>> and david -- i know, i know, i know. look, i am, too. i just think it's such an interesting dynamic. and it's sort of -- it warrants bringing it to light and talking it through. david, what i was going to ask you, trump seems to be aware of it as well. all of trump's comments. this is his closing attack on joe bid joe biden, that he'll bore you to death. watch. >> if you want depression, doom, and despair, vote for sleepy joe biden. and boredom. >> if you had sleepy joe, nobody will be interested in politics anymore. that will be the end of that. >> so good on all the people wearing masks. that's the first time i've seen that at a trump rally, and i'm happy to see it. i hope they stay healthy. but this closing argument that joe biden is making is, we're

better when we're not fighting with each other. when we put aside our differences, and work towards the common good. from trump, a vote for joe biden is a vote for boredom. i think people are ready for politics not to dominate the national conversation. >> yeah, but both messages tell us something about internal polling. this is what is fascinating when you see commercials, it's a reflection of what the campaign is seeing about internal polling about what closing message will resonate the most. what these tell me, is this thing is all over but the voting and the cheating. this is not a race now in the final 13 days that will be decided around health care or even the supreme court, or immigration. for your highly intense voters, of course that will inform the vote. but what we're down to now, to

either persuade a final few votes or keep the ones you have, the permission, good guy, who would you like to have a beer with missage. joe biden will draw a contrast between a good guy who thinks we're one nation no matter what, or division, division, division, from donald trump. at this point, what joe biden is saying, look, if you are concerned about the direction of the country, come home to the biden/harris ticket. we're a safe ticket, we're a renewed leadership ticket, and that's the final closing message from joe biden. donald trump will continue to say joe biden is a bad guy, because that's the way to interrupt joe biden's closing message. >> you know, it is so interesting. and i think we've all probably learned more about the granular aspects of campaigns. i'll just be campaign nerd

nicole for a second. but here's the strategic overlay of this. what you're doing in the final days is exactly what you articulated. you are -- if you're winning, you have to turn out everyone who is saying they'll support you. if you're losing, you assume everyone who supports you will turn out. you have to steal support from people who are already committed to the other person. so you have to change the mind of someone that supports your opponent, make them support you, and then turn them out. and the closing scattershot rage machine is not how -- he's basically furthering the argument that joe biden made against him. he's attacking tony fauci, for the third straight day after his "60 minutes" interview, he

said i taped the interview. all interviews are taped. i don't know what he's talking about. all the staff is in there watching, because the president is being recorded. i've lost the thread on what they think they got leslie stahl on. and people are tired of covid, and that's because trump has not protected us from the pandemic. they're not even really making an argument to persuade the biden voter to vote for them instead. why not? >> yeah, nicole, what the president is putting out there is just a huge bucket of drama, vitriol, and grievance. it's confusing to us journalists, and it's our job to follow what he says. it's got to be confusing for a voter who tunes in here and

there, what is his argument? it's all over the map, a lot of grievance and anger at the media. it was guthrie, then it is stahl, no doubt it will be welker as she moderates the debate tomorrow night. and in erie, it was biden is a communist, a marxist, and he's controlled by the radical left. it's not even a coherent argument about why voters should not vote for biden if they're planning to, and shift to president trump. strategically, the law of campaign politics would suggest that will not work. but then again, donald trump is donald trump, and maybe he'll

pull something magical out of that hat in the next two weeks. we'll see. >> that's always possible. but just talking about the messages in the closing days of the 2016 campaign, neither was an incumbent. and donald trump is hammering a message about seeing the forgotten man and woman. i remember him looking out over his much larger crowds four years ago. the forgotten man and woman, and now there's a pandemic raging across the country. and president obama, being the target of donald trump's attacks, having a roundtable conversation ahead of the rally. we talked about at the top of the hour, it's a small group that has been assembled in philadelphia. we were told that some of this would be closed to the press. but looks like they've let some cameras in.

a drive-in rally follows this smaller event. if we can listen, can we hear what they're saying? >> churches, mosques, your community. let them know that not only do i say hello, but michelle says hello as well. and it is always great to be in philadelphia. in part because, you know, this reminds me of home back in chicago. when i see what is going on here, it's no different on the south side or the west side of chicago. we're confronting the same challenges. i got my start in public life doing some of the same kinds of things that many of you are doing. working at the community level as an organizer. and, you know, eventually went back to law school, started to do civil rights law and voting

rights law. that remains my baseline for why i got into politics, to help lift up communities that had, for too long, been ignored. that continued to deal with a legacy of discrimination. and where i met too many young people, boys and girls, young men and young women, who so often felt like they were on the outside looking in. and the ladders of opportunity for them were being blocked in all kinds of ways. so this is where our heart is, and when i come back to philadelphia, i'm always reminded, and this was true during my presidency, that this

is where i got started. and i never forgot that. and there are communities across the united states. now, what i've consistently tried to communicate during this year is, particularly talking to young brothers who may be cynical about what can happen, is to acknowledge to them that government and voting alone isn't going to change everything. because, you know, young people are sophisticated. so there's no point in overhyping what happens. the truth is, i'm very proud of my presidency, but i didn't immediately solve systemic

racism by virtue of me being president. we didn't left everybody out of poverty, fix every school, or address every impediment that is going on in a community like this one. but what i always tell young people is, we did make things better. so that by virtue of me being the president, or eric holder being the attorney general, we did change how the u.s. attorney's office operated so that prosecutors weren't rewarded for throwing the book at somebody on a nonviolent drug charge but instead we said, look, the guidelines are, treat people proportionately.

don't assume we want maximum sentences in every situation. that may not necessarily by the situation in which justice is served. which meant there were thousands of cases, tens of thousands of cases that were dealt differently. and that made a difference for those young men's lives. we didn't immediately deal with all the health care issues in every community. but the affordable care act provided 20 million people without health insurance, health insurance. and for some of those people in philadelphia, they may have gotten their lives saved, or not been disabled, or not had to give up their house to pay for a medical bill when somebody got sick. we may not have changed police practices in every state, but we were on the right side of these issues so when a ferguson

happens, we're able to bring on a consent decree, which says you have to clear with us before you do anything how you operate. because we've seen in the past that you're not always operating in a way that upholds the rule of law and treating everybody with dignity and respect. so the answer for young people when i talk to them is not that voting makes everything perfect. it's that it makes things better. you are more likely to have representatives like the congressman or the senator who are going to look out for you, who understand who you are, your voice through them will be heard in the corridors of power. what that means is that when budgets are decided or policies

are issued, they're more likely to reflect your views and meet your interests. and that's worth spending 15 minutes to go vote. we saw this summer, an amazing outpouring of folks on the streets from every different background. and it made me optimistic about young people. because they want, what it showed me was that in some ways, they believe more in what they were taught than maybe their teachers did about what america should look like. they took seriously the idea that people should be treated on the basis of the content of their character, and not the color of their skin. and that we want to have a society that is not discriminatory, and to tear down some of those barriers. there is room for protest.

i was inspired originally by a tradition of protests, including people like my friend who left us this year, john lewis. but protest that is not translated into policy or law, it just kind of dissipates. it goes away. what we have to do is always constantly figure out, how do we institutionalize awareness and make those into laws that change the country better. and that is worth 15 minutes. i was talking to a buddy of mine who is a personal trainer. he said, yeah, you know, i meet folks, they start off, they're supposed to be on a workout program, and, you know, after about a month, they say, you

know what, this isn't helping me. i'm not looking like the rock. so i'm just going to quit working out. it's like, and he tells them, listen, you're never going to look like the rock. but you can be healthier than you are right now. >> right, right. >> and you will live longer and have a better quality of life, and set a better example for your kids if you work out and eat better. right? well, voting is a little bit like that. just by virtue of one single election, things don't become perfect. but you get yourself on a pattern, on a habit of being better represented, and getting better served by your government. and that's the message that we have to send young people. the easiest thing to do is say, well, i quit.

but we can't afford to quit. as i said at john lewis' fune l funeral, and here in philadelphia at the democratic national convention, our ancestors, our fathers, our grandfathers, they had a much better excuse to quit than we did. you think about what they were going up against when they started trying to register folks to vote, and they're looking around them, and they're saying, it's not possible anything is going to change. jim crow has been in place for 100 years. and yet somehow they still had the wherewithal to make a change. and, look, something i hear folks talking about how things haven't changed. come on, now.

i mean, that's just not true. anybody who says things haven't gotten better in this country is somebody who didn't live through the '50s or the '40s or the '30s. if you talk to folks who did, they ain't going to say nothing changed. the reason things changed was folks voted. that's how the voting rights act and civil rights act got passed. and that's how we're going to continue to bring about changes. now, i have to say, while i'm working out, i'm still thinking someday maybe i'll look like the rock. maybe if i shave my head. all right. what else do we got? >> do you have a question? >> mr. president, you know, when we were here, we heard from

business people in the audience and others who explained that, a lot of barbers and beauty salons did not get access to the ppp dollars. i'm in the state senate for one of the poorest districts in the state. we know there has been a history of redlining, and the banks don't have the best track record of doing business with our community. other concerns, we heard about the fact that there's not a lot the federal government is doing about gun violence. and pennsylvania state is not doing a lot about it, either. it's not so much older brothers that we're having trouble getting to vote, but it's the younger ones who have not lived life as much. their life is short, and if you're 18, you were 14, you were just starting high school when this guy got in there. they're not seeing the change

and believe it or not, for some of them, you know, 12 years ago, they were 6 when you got elected. that doesn't seem like a long time ago to us, but to the younger people, it does. that's part of the conversation we were wrestling with. i'm going to introduce now my imam, i'm the first muslim state sta senator in the state. he's a younger guy, and he had a question for you talking a little bit about what is going on. >> thank you, senator and thank you my forever president, president obama. pleased to be here. yes, i'm the resident imam of the center for human excellence, and i'm an i.t. management professional in the area. it's often said that the

difference between good and great black voter turnout is a question of black male engagement, as we've just discussed. so what do we think is the best way, you know, to engage, you know, the black male vote, specifically in a city like philadelphia, which has one of the nation's largest black muslim populations? >> first of all, a couple of things i got to say. my first political office was state senator. i'm always a little biased towards state senators. because it's a great experience. especially in a big state like pennsylvania or illinois, because it allows you to meet people from all different parts of the state and form coalitions. ultimately, that's how you end up mobilizing the power you need to bring about real change, right? so it's part of the reason why i'm confident that joe biden and

kamala harris are going to be able to deliver on some of their promises. because they know how to make coalitions. and, you know, i think it's important for us, anyone in the african-american community, to recognize that although our problems are more acute than many other communities, there are people of all races, all faiths, in regions throughout this state and across the country that are also hurting. and those are potential allies and partners if we can get past the constant division that is fed, attempting to set ourselves apart. that's been a long history in america, by the way, which is, you try to distract working people from coming together to work together by highlighting

racial differences or religious differences. so that the people who got what they got can keep what they've got. now, in terms of getting young people to vote, look, you know, i've got two spectacular daughters. who are about as well-informed and conscious and active than anybody, as you can imagine, because they have michelle obama as a role model. but michelle and i also joke, you know, sometimes they'll sit there, and they're really sophisticated and making all these important points, and showing what they've been studying around history, and they'll quote frederick

douglass, and you start thinking, wow. and then they'll do something that reminds you, oh, they're only 20. right? because they're young. a lot of the young men you speak of, it's not just that they're, you know, african-american males. they're young. and young people have a lot of distractions. and they are -- it is rare, and i will confess that when i was 20 years old, i wasn't all that woke. because i had other stuff that i was interested in. we won't go into the details. and so a lot of times i think

our young men, they may try to give a rationale for why they're not active and involved, but the truth is, they're distracted. the way, i think, to break that mindset, you know, if you look at every study of voting patterns, people vote when they see other people voting. when they see their peer group voting. so i think that the most important thing we can do in these closing 12, 13 days is for us all to model and advertise that it's the cool thing and the right thing to do, to vote. and to do it where they are.

right? so i notice that my children, they don't watch tv that has advertising. >> right. >> because they're streaming everything. either on the phone, if they are watching tv, they've prerecorded it, they're going through -- they're not -- that's not a way to reach them. which means that organizations like yours that already have contacts, let's take your mosque, for you to create something digitally that says, here's all the people that are going to vote. we're going to take a tally of who has already voted. we're going to have something, maybe a mixer or something, but you have to have your voting sticker on. whatever it is that meets them where they are, rather than expecting that they're going to be responding to the same kinds of things that a 50-year-old man

may respond to. and they have to see that their peers are voting. trying to figure out how -- i think joe and kamala have done a good job in listing some influencers on social media that they listen to. but a lot of times, they're local folks who may not be as famous as -- >> you? barack obama? >> as me, yeah, right. but, yeah, like busta rhymes. he's almost my age. you're showing your age, talking about busta rhymes. come on. >> mr. president, we have one of those young validators.

young isaiah thomas. >> mr. president, we appreciate you engaging us. i'm councilmember isaiah thomas, and for us, here in philadelphia, we have a lot of everyday problems that are impacting people. those problems existed long before the pandemic, but because of the coronavirus, they've been magnified. we're pushing people to go vote and go to the polls, of course there's some level of resistance, as to how will the election impact my life? can you speak to that, give us some tools to let people know? as you said, all of our problems will not go away with the election, but we have to

recognize this is a step in the direction of progress and change. what would you say to us who gets resistance because of the pandemic, and because of the problems that existed are now pretty much on steroids. thank you, president trump. >> how old are you, man? >> i'm 36 now. >> you're 36. you seem like an extraordinary young man. you may not be old enough to know that bulls fans generally don't like isaiah thomas. [ laughter ] so i want you to watch "the last dance" in case you missed it. >> i did. >> it's on espn. >> i did. thank god i'm on the east coast. >> listen, first of all, i want to congratulate you, because seeing young talent, i think, is

what always gives me hope. you're going to know your communities better than i do. one thing i would do is to, as much as possible, focus on concrete issues that will be affected not just by the presidency, but also downballot. now, let me take a couple of examples. the senator here was mentioning that the emergency federal stimulus package didn't reach a lot of black businesses. that is something that we're almost certainly going to have to revisit, it doesn't look right now that it will get done before the election, and who knows what will happen after the

election. but the economy is still in dire straits and businesses are falling left and right. when you look at how the money was distributed, there were not a lot of people who were reached by it in this community. so that's something concrete and specific that i feel confident you can promise. which is, if joe biden is ele elected and kamala harris are elected, then the next round of emergency spending by the federal government to help support small businesses is going to be structured so it's more representative, and every community benefits, not just some. and it's going to be small businesses and not just big corporations. i think it's also important to remind young people, though, that it's not just the president and the vice president that are on the tibet.

so here in pennsylvania, flipping the state legislature could then start dealing with issues like gun safety. >> absolutely. >> you could then start looking at reforms around how the criminal justice system operates in this state. school funding. how we think about diversion programs for young people. there are a whole host of issues that are going to be determined in this election, not just the presidential and vice presidential race. and i think it's really important sometimes when we're talking to young people to listen to them, what is it that they're concerned about? one of the things i learned when i first went to chicago, i'm in the south side, i'm ready to set

the world on fire and go out there and organize and i had been hired by a group of churches who were dealing with many of the community problems that still face an area like this, and i was ten years younger than you, i was 25. the guy who hired me said i want you to just go around talking to people and listening to them, to find out what it is that they care about. a lot of times, instead of listening, we want to tell people what they should care about. but we don't take the time to find out, what do you care about? and i think, councilman, in these last 12 days, you probably have a sense of some of the things they care about. but if i'm engaging a young person, i ask, what is an issue that is really important to you? and as soon as they say anything, i guarantee you, i can

find something about that issue that will be impacted by this election. so then i can turn it around on them and say, oh, if you really care about this, let me be very specific about how this is impacted by what is happening in the state legislature, in the federal government, what is happening in terms of who the district attorney is, the state's attorney is, how budgets work. because ultimately, one of the biggest tricks that is perpetrated on the american people is this idea that the government is separate from you. the government is us. of, by, and for the people. it wasn't always for all of us. but the way it's designed, it works based on who is at the table. and if you do not vote, you are

not at the table, and then, yes, then stuff is done to you. if you're at the table, then you're part of the solution. and i really want to emphasize to young people as much as possible, look, in '08, when i was elected, we had the highest african-american turnout in history. but it was still only about 60%. yeah. when people say voting doesn't make a difference, we've never tried what it would look like if it was 80% voting. >> yeah. >> or 90% voting. during midterm elections, we get 30% of people voting, and probably 15% of young people

voting. you don't know if it's going to work if you don't try it. so with young people, what i would say to them is, look, give this a shot. and if -- because one thing i can say for certain, after having been in office for eight years, the country was better than when i came into office. and i can show that by any measure. so, yeah, voting worked. it didn't make everything perfect. but we solved a whole lot of problems. and the same is going to be true here locally in philadelphia. we can make things better. and better is good. i always used to tell my staff, nothing wrong with better. all right? >> thank you, mr. president. appreciate you. >> how am i doing on time here?

>> we've been watching former president obama with a bit of a reminder of how he was elected twice. out there on the campaign trail, doing what he does for joe biden this time. it's a rather extraordinary event. i want to let you in on a little bit of the behind the scenes things about the event. we weren't sure we would be allowed to cover it like that. obama started by reaching back to his own days as a community organizer, and speaking directly to the folks in the room to urge african-american voters in philadelphia and beyond not to feel discouraged by the pace of change. some instantly memorable lines, i'm proud of my presidency, but i didn't solve systemic racism. but i tell young people we made things better. it's remarkable to see obama in such an intimate setting, one-on-one with voters, making his own powerful case for his

former vice president. is donna still with us? i know that was a long detour for us. donna, what did you think? >> well, it reminded me of why president obama is so good, and that he's a perfect surrogate for joe biden and kamala harris. i mean, he also reminded me why it took my son to convince me to vote for barack obama. because he's able to talk with people where they are, meet them where they are. you know, have a conversation that is real. you know, him talking about the bulls and the pacers, i guess, it was a moment. and he really identified with the people in that room and i think it will give them some tools to go back to their community and convince those, particularly, young black men that there's something in it to

show up and vote for joe biden and kamala harris. he's a -- you want him in your corner. donald trump doesn't have anything that approaches that. >> phil, i thought it was notable for what wasn't said. we came in a couple of minutes late. so if i missed it, i apologize. i didn't hear him mention the current occupant of the oval office. he was going straight into sort of a part of his own base that he needs, or he wants to turn out for joe biden. in the kind of numbers in which they turned out for him in '08 and '12. he said, you don't know what is possible if we even exceed those numbers. trump is increasingly not even part of the pitch. >> i was really struck by that, too. and we should remind the viewers, i think we're going to hear from obama addressing that rally-style environment a little later this afternoon.

perhaps he'll have a more direct pitch in that setting that d discusses trump and draws a contrast between him and joe biden. but you couldn't watch that discussion that obama was having without thinking about trump. because he presented such a contrast to the way trump would conduct himself in that sort of a setting. the tone was so different. the volume was sort of turned down a few levels. there was less kind of crisis and drama surrounding the discussion. it was more of a natural discussion with obama, speaking directly to the community organizers, talking about his personal and family experiences. it wasn't about me, me, me, the greatest, the best, the biggest. >> i think that because of trump, david, it sounds weird when we're not listening to a narcissist smear other people. so what we've heard really was the opposite.

and i looked a little bit at social media, and people were saying this is balm for my frayed nerve. but there was a pretty profound message meant to go to any cynic of the power of one vote. it was intellectual, it was stra tee strategic, and if it works, it reminds everyone that the power of every vote is what this is all about. it's the one day where it's over to you, america. all the people that are on tv are less relevant than the american voter. >> yeah, i fully agree with that. several takeaways consistent with donna and phillip. one of them was, what covid has taken from us, in addition to the human toll and the loss of life, that american experience of the campaigns in the final 14 days. this looks very different than

president obama, who in the 2018 midterms really barnstormed in a way that no other president has done after leaving office. but the different events, the rally will likely be a drive-in rally. and to your opponent, you heard a president able to address a diverse nation, a nation often hurting, challenged, wondering if one vote could have an impact. you heard a president speak cerebrally, passionately, but directly to the interest of the group he was speaking to, about the power of one vote to change the direction of the country. the one question i have over the next two weeks, if joe biden is trying to win back pennsylvania, wisconsin, and michigan, is he going to deploy resources, whether it's obama or otherwise, to drive up african-american turnout in cities like

philadelphia or milwaukee, or is he going to go after the largely white, rural, non-college educated voters that swung towards donald trump? that could be very telling about how you want to win the election. >> that's a good point to end on. thinking of a campaign with joe biden's resources and his access to super surrogates like president and michelle obama, he can do both. phil, david, thank you so much for starting us off. that wasn't what we planned, but i'm so grateful i had the three of you to watch it with. donna will stick around for a little more of the hour. when we come back, with devastating consequences, the cruelty of the donald trump administration is coming to light.

545 children separated from their parents, they're still unable to find their moms and dads. "deadline: white house" returns after a short break. don't go anywhere. ter a short b. don't go anywhere.

back in january, we knew that this was really, really bad. we had ample forewarning. but we did almost no testing, almost no contact tracing. completely ignored the science, completely ignored the warning signs. there were things that could have been done. a lot of people have died needlessly, and there's nothing more frustrating than feeling like you're fighting against someone who should have your back. we are not going to stamp this out unless we have a change of leadership. ff pac is responsible for the content of this ad. such as high blood pressure,ve pdiabetes, and asthma.s this administration and senate republicans want to overturn laws requiring insurance companies to cover people with pre-existing conditions. they're rushing a lifetime appointment to the supreme court to change the law through the courts. 70% of americans want to keep protections for pre-existing conditions in place.

tell our leaders in washingtn to stop playing games with our healthcare. we're learning more today about the heartbreaking reality for the hundreds of migrant children here in the united states and their possible permanent separation from their parents. lawyers say they have yet to track down the parents of 545 children separated by the trump

administration, about two-thirds of those parents were deported to central america before a federal judge ordered that they be tracked down. the h the lasting effects from the trump administration's under the radar test of a no tolerance separation policy despite being warned of these precise consequences. nbc's jacob soboroff has been on this story since the beginning, and he spoke with a father deported to honduras and his 8-year-old son, staying with family in california, over zoom earlier this week. they don't know when or if they'll be reunited. >> reporter: you have a birthday coming up? >> yeah. >> reporter: how old are you going to be? >> nine. >> reporter: what do you think you're going to get or what do you want to get, buddy? >> my dad. >> reporter: that would be a nice president, huh, bud? >> that's part of the reason why we don't talk often because it's very complicated. >> translator: it's very painful.

that's part of the reason why he doesn't talk to his brother as often, because they both start crying and then i want to cry as well. >> translator: you suffer through every day and i would like many people to know everything we go through. especially right now. because there's a pandemic. it is very difficult. >> joining our conversation is jacob soboroff, who as i said, has been reporting on this story since the beginning for us. he's also written a best-selling book about it, the author of "separated: inside on american tragedy." donna's with us as well. jacob, you know, we always try to sort of button our conversations about this policy, this bucket of policies from donald trump's d.o.j. with what's the status of the females that were separated and we don't always know. now we know. it's 545 children still separated from moms and dads. what are they going to do? >> reporter: they don't know, just like the father and son,

nicole, who it's almost twisted to say are the lucky ones who at least the government has tracked that father down. he's now represented by el otro lado, a pro bono legal services firm. and since this story has broken, the fact that they cannot track down 545 parents who they deported without their children even before the zero tolerance policy began, now you have the white house pushing back on this. you have the dhs pushing back on this, saying that parents don't want to be reunited effectively with their son or daughter who's still in the united states. and it couldn't be further from the truth. let's just look at what the options are. the options are to be -- to have your child deported to the country that you flee -- you fled, excuse me, to safety in the united states. or the other option is to leave them with a sponsor or an extended family member in the united states because getting back to the u.s. for reunification is so incredibly

difficult under the terms of the settlement agreement, and so again, just disingenuous language from the white house and from dhs about what's really going on here, a policy that was effectively torture, according to physicians for human rights, and just like you said, they knew what the consequences were going to be, and here they are today. >> name names. who? who's pushing back? who? who from dhs and who from the white house? >> reporter: the spokesperson for dhs -- i think we have the tweet if we can show it on the screen, literally just tweeted moments before -- >> what's his or her name? >> reporter: on our own colleague, chase jennings. there you go. this narrative has been dispelled. out of 485 children they've yet to identify a single family that wants their child reunited with them in their country of origin. whether they're fleeing violence or persecution or starvation or

malnutrition, whatever the case may be, the framing here is completely incorrect, the idea that they don't want their child sent back with them because they don't want their child, you're a parent, i'm a parent, but you don't have to be a parent to understand, no parent wants to abandon their child in a completely different country for no reason. it's because reunification is not an option in the way these families want. >> well, jacob, let me just say, i mean, i don't know who chase is, but other men and women who were associated with this policy and are now out of the government are running so far and so fast from the stench of this government-sanctioned cruelty and child abuse that maybe they should form a support group. i mean, are they still defending the policy? >> reporter: well, that's what i find unbelievable as well. yes, look, trust me, i think the last thing that the trump administration and donald trump wants to talk about is one of the great signature failures, retreats of his administration, this policy that tortured, as i said, in the words of physicians for human rights, government-sanctioned human rights in the words of american

academy of pediatrics they perpetrated on 5,500 children and continues in some form to this day. dhs was warned. kirstjen nielsen was warned. jeff sessions and rod rosenstein were warned. h, hs was warned and they moved forward with it anyway. this is the last thing that i think they want to be talking about right now but we must because of the children. >> jacob soboroff, donna, i'm sorry i took up all of our time. i'm just flabbergasted that anyone today, this news cycle, was still defending this heinous policy. but we will continue to cover it. thank you both for spending some time with us this hour. the next hour of deadline white house starts after a quick break. there's so much more. don't go anywhere. break. there's souc mh more don't go anywhere. is on fire? record heat waves, does that worry you? well it should. because this climate thing is your problem. forty years ago, when our own scientists at big oil predicted that burning fossil fuels could lead to catastrophic effects, we spent billions to sweep it under the rug. so we're going to be fine. but you might want to start a compost pile and turn down the ac, you got a lot of work to do.

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donald trump hasn't grown into the job because he can't. and the consequences of that failure are severe. our worst impulses unleashed.

a proud reputation around the world, badly diminished. and our democratic institutions threatened like never before. this president and those in power, those who benefit from keeping things the way they are, they are counting on your cynicism. they know they can't win you over with their policies. so, they're hoping to make it as hard as possible for you to vote and to convince you that your vote does not matter. that's how a democracy withers. until it's no democracy at all. and we cannot let that happen. >> hi again, everyone. it's 5:00 in the east. that guy, former president obama, had once hoped to lead the campaign trail behind when he left the white house nearly four years ago but with his legacy and in his view american democracy on the line, plus his former vp at the top of the democratic ticket, the 44th president is jumping back into the political arena.

president obama is making the first of what will likely be a series of appearances on behalf of joe biden in the remaining 13 days of the campaign. he started today by talking with a group of black men in philadelphia. it's a group that didn't turn out in particularly large numbers in 2016, helping to propel donald trump into the white house. >> i'm very proud of my presidency, but i didn't immediately solve systemic racism by virtue of me being president. we didn't immediately lift everybody out of poverty or fix every school or address every issue and impediment that was going on in a community like this one. but what i always tell young people is, we did make things better. >> later this hour, former president obama will headline his first big campaign event for

joe biden, a drive-in rally aimed at turning out the vote in the crucial swing state of pennsylvania. while today's events mark president obama's big return to the campaign trail, he has been a constant presence throughout the race. as "the new york times" reports today, biden seldom makes a campaign stop without reminding voters of the things that he and mr. obama accomplished together. for the next two weeks, he will make the case for mr. biden in the flesh. his aides have not revealed his itinerary for the rest of the campaign but last week, a person familiar with the planning said that michigan, wisconsin, and florida are also on his short list. president obama's reemergence on the campaign trail is where we start this hour with some of our favorite reporters and friends. former campaign manager for president obama and msnbc political analyst david is here. also with us, political director for republican voters against trump and former communications director for jeb bush's 2016 campaign, our friend tim miller is back and editor at large for the 19th and msnbc contributor

erin hayes is here. i want to start with you. we didn't know we were going to get to watch that event so when it came up, just as a former campaign person, i was riveted by three things. one, just to watch any candidate in a room with such a small group is usually walled off from the media, so just to get to see their person-to-person skills was remarktial and i was reminded of just how president obama won twice. i mean, he's just one of the most effective communicators and connecters. but two, he spoke to the cynicism with the pace of change. he talked about voting as though it was like dieting or working out and thinking you were going to look like the rock. he said, i get it. i get it. it doesn't have that payout. but then the third thing he said was, imagine what's possible. we didn't have 60% turnout but imagine if we had 80%. he just manages to go right at the problem, which i guess in the strategic assessment is cynicism or a reluctance to turn

out, and then talk about what's possible. what'd you think if you had a chance to watch that event? >> yeah, well, i mean, i think what i was really reminded of was president obama's community activist roots. he's speaking to a group of black men in a community, right, that had not -- i mean, whose circumstances don't necessarily change if they don't feel like their circumstances change regardless of who is president. and so, him making the case to those voters is really about framing this election in terms of what it's going to mean for them as opposed to making it about either of the two candidates,like what's in it for me is really what people in these types of communities need to hear. and, you know -- >> erin, to your point, he has just grabbed a bull horn. should we listen? >> you can have all the tv ads you want, all the digital ads you want, but at the end of the day, people connect with people. and obviously, this is an

extraordinary election because we're in the midst of a pandemic. and we've got to make sure that we're doing everything safely, which is the only reason i'm not hugging and squeezing this cutie pie. because i'm trying to model good hygiene. but nevertheless, folks seeing your effort out there is going to be inspiring. don't be discouraged. you'll get some folks who say, well, i'm not going to vote. you'll get some folks who will be distracted or too busy or what have you, but for the -- for this community to see all of you making this effort, you know, that's the kind of spirit that ultimately is going to make a difference in this election and these next 12 days so i want to just say thank you on behalf of joe, on behalf of kamala, on behalf of all the candidates up and down the ticket because i want to make sure people

remember this is not just an election about a president. this is going to determine the pennsylvania state legislature. this is going to determine a whole bunch of local offices that have a real impact on the community right here. and y'all, i got my start probably about simone's age out there. i was not as together and organized as she was. but i got my start working in a community just like this. and you know, i didn't change the world overnight. but it's each of us making that effort in a consistent way that, when you add that all together, can be all the difference as to whether we got healthcare in this country, whether or not we've got a criminal justice system that is free of racial bias, whether or not we do things -- do something about climate change, whether we give

a better world to a young person like this one. it's these little steps that you're taking that make all the difference. and for that, i could not be prouder. and you all look very good in your masks, by the way. i have to say that because of my ears, this actually accentuates how big my ears are, because it kind of pulls it forward and so they really look like i could just take off at any time. but this is what we have to do is to make sure that, you know, even as we're campaigning, we're also mindful that we want to keep our community safe and healthy. particularly communities like this one that so often are not getting the protections, don't have all the healthcare resources, et cetera, that they need, which is why they've been disproportionately impacted. all right? so, anyway, main message i got, i love you, especially you, sweetie pie. and if you just work as hard as

you can over these next 12 days, i'm confident we're going to have a good outcome. we're going to have joe biden as the next president of the united states. kamala harris as the next vice president. we're going to be able to restore the kind of spirit of hope and change and possibility that we all believe in. all right, guys? love you. take care. >> that was former president obama there, a bullhorn. i always stop for presidents with a bullhorn. he stopped by a voter mobilization event after the event we've been talking about with erin hanes. i interrupted you. keep going. >> not at all. i mean, look, it's like riding a bike for this man, isn't it? he certainly does not seem rusty, although this is his first foray back on to the campaign trail. but look, i mean, he's in his element. like i was saying, this is a man who started out as a community activist. he knows how to talk to these

folks. he knows how to connect with folks who have been disaffected and have felt unseen and unheard in this country, and he is translating that into them using their voice at the ballot box this november. i can see him doing this not only in philadelphia where i am but also in milwaukee, also in detroit, it's no surprise that the campaign is saying that those could be among the stops on his short list here over the next 13 days because you know, democrats know they need to shore up black men in the home stretch if they are going to build the kind of coalition they need for joe biden to win victory here coming out of november 3rd. black men could be the difference makers. we know that black women are galvanized and energized in this election and even though it's unclear whether we're going to see the numbers for black voters that we saw for barack obama in 2008 and 2012, we know that there's been record turnout in this election and black voters who were the key to the primary nomination for joe biden will

also definitely be a part of any victory that he may claim. >> david, i have 7,000 questions for you too. but i guess i'll start personally. how do you feel seeing him back out there for his number two? >> well, that bullhorn moment was a good campaign moment, nicole. so i'm glad we carried it. >> i agree. >> as a philadelphia phillies fan, the event later tonight at citizens bank park so i'm selfishly glad something good's going to happen in that stadium. but it's great. listen, the race, all what he's doing today, you know, it's going to help on the margins but that's where we are. if a few hundred people may see him and of course he'll get dominant coverage in the philadelphia media market today and tomorrow, decide to vote who are on the fence, he was just imploring people to spend more time in the last 12 days volunteering. we still need shifts to be filled if you're the biden campaign, so it's great to see him out there and obviously he can attest to joe biden's character. the only person who can do it better, i think, is jill, and

maybe ashley and hunter, but i think at the end of the day, they've got a unique relationship he can speak to. but listen, i think the message he always taught us in our campaigns and i think 16 is seared in his memory, is ignore the polls. and i think he's going to sprint as much as he can over the next 12 days in these markets, in these states, to try and reach, even if it's just a few thousand people, they may do something differently than they were before, that's going to make a big difference. >> you know, david plouff, george w. bush's private fear and dread was around the isms. he would privately say that he was scared that the forces of isolationism and nativism and racism were entering into the gop. it was justifiable, obviously, with the election of donald trump. it sounds like in president obama's convention speech and in this event that we got to watch today, some of his private fears include apathy at the pace and

rate of change and progress. is that a right read? >> it is. now, it's even something we had to struggle with when he was on the ballot. you know, you're trying to reach voters. in this case, he was really talking to young black men voters, but all young voters or people who just haven't been engaged in politics, wonder if any of it matters. and so he had to address this directly when he was on the ballot. but yes, i think he's speaking directly to that. i think it's very important that he do that, that he be honest that the pace of change is not what a lot of people would like, that it really is slow and it's brutal. but i think -- i think it's fair to say he believes this election's much more important than either of his two elections as he spoke so sternly at the convention. literally our democracy is on the ballot. we may not survive four more years of donald trump. so, you see there's a desperation, almost, to his appeal. he's really speaking frankly and urgently not just in that convention speech but i think in the event we saw earlier today and i'm sure you'll see that for

the next 12 days. he feels as strongly about this as anything he's felt in his life. >> tim, i'm so happy to hear david plouff say that because when our on the outside and you don't know someone, it feels like that, but to hear that is how urgently important this election is for former president obama, for someone who's been there and really believes that our democracy is on the line, it makes efforts like yours a really important and, i guess in hindsight, it will feel like an obvious piece of the puzzle. of course there are still people who are registered republicans who want to save the democracy. you've had some big additions to the republicans against trump coalition, whether you're rking with them or not, admiral mccraven, michael steele spoke out this week. just talk about -- talk about the case for joe biden as it's increasingly about joe biden and trump is becoming an afterthought. >> you know, i think so and i

was also happy to hear david express just the urgency, to use one of president obama's words, about how he feels about this election because it is such. and i think that's why you're seeing people like bill mccraven speak out and frankly, nicole, it's why i wish a couple of our republican friends on the sidelines would still speak out because it's easy to feel like might be you don't feel like -- >> name names. today we're naming names. >> i don't know. john kelly. jim mattis. h.r. mcmaster, i see doing the tours but i don't see him saying he's skporting joe biden. he says a lot of bad things about donald trump. so, i hope some of these people siding on the sidelines realize this thing is not over. and joe biden's winning, but this election is not over, and we need everybody who understands how important it is to do what president obama's doing, to do what bill mccraven did and what others are doing because i think that it makes a difference. and i think that people have gotten beaten down by these last four years, nicole, and i know in my life, people aren't watching. to your point about tuning out

the president, people aren't watching him. it's my job, unfortunately, so i've had to watch his speeches recently. and they are just insane. i mean, we will look back in 10, 20 years and see a president during a pandemic having these super spreader events where he's talking about insulting the media and making fun of tony fauci and making these insane claims about joe biden's family. it will feel insane, and somebody like barack obama, bill mccraven, michael steele, they remind people about what this can look like when they're out there and when the stories turn to them and i think that's important for these voters who we -- who i know we're talking to republican voters against trump who may be upset, they're off of trump but they're trying to decide joe biden or do i write in, joe biden or do i stay home. those are the folks that we're trying to nudge, which i think complement what the president's doing today, trying to turn out, you know, the democratic base voters. >> i'm so glad you said that. i mean, look, it's my job too, and it's my privilege to have this job, but one of the occupational hazards is to see

and watch everything that donald trump says as part of an effort to cover him and hold him accountable, and i want to ask you about president obama's appeal, because this was a very small event, and it was a very targeted event. but i think the message was universal. i am moved when i hear people talking about the country, and i don't care who they are. i don't care if it's an obama ad or a biden ad, an obama event, or a supporter that used to be on the trump side and is now voting for -- i don't care who the messenger is but just to have people talk about the country and remind people that we are part of a country that used to have common aims and common goals and chief among them at this hour should be recovering from the pandemic, healing our economy and protecting people that are now out of work and out of healthcare and out of all those things that used to protect them. what role do you think the sort of -- introducing president obama on to the campaign trail,

and he talked about michelle too, and she has that broad appeal too. do you think that turns this more to sort of a closing argument, tim, about the country? >> yeah, i think there are two important contrasts, and briefly, just looking at them and with the distancing, with the wearing a mask, like i said, this is a loser for donald trump. he has a core base that might be mask truthers but the visual of him holding these insane rallies where everybody's packed in like sardines versus president obama, joe biden acting responsibly is an important visual and that's one contrast but if you look at the message that obama's put forth and that ad that joe biden put out during the world series last night, as a republican, i just -- it's unbelievable to me that the party has just handed this message to joe biden on a platter. joe biden is the patriotic candidate. he's the uniting candidate. he's talking about all these themes that i heard at every dang republican convention my whole life. and because donald trump has no respect for our fundamental values, because he has no

character, because patriotism to him is being nice to him, he's -- the party has allowed joe biden to carry this message as a close, and i think that resonates with the voters we're talking to at republican voters against trump. >> all right. everyone is sticking around. let me just tell everybody with us what we're watching for and waiting for. in the corner of your screen or if you're in your car, in the corner of our screen, is a box. president obama has not started speaking yet. when he does, we will go to it. if we have time before that, though, we'll talk about the battle for pennsylvania. the keystone state is shaping up to be really, really important for both the biden campaign and the trump campaign. joe biden obviously hoping that former president obama will help flip it back to the blue column, which is what it i shall is. donald trump making one of the most awkward closing arguments as he tries to hang on to that state. we'll show it to you. plus, coronavirus cases are on the rise in nearly every state across the country. now, the cdc says the actual death toll from the pandemic is

much worse than we thought. and what happened when donald trump's microphone cut out at his rally last night? it's something he'll need to get used to hearing heading into tomorrow night's debate. "deadline white house" returns after a quick break so please don't go anywhere. after a quick break so please don't go anywhere. for decades california led the nation

in mass incarceration of black and brown communities. the shame is on all of us. i'm working to right the wrongs of injustice. ending cash bail. ending the war on drugs. decriminalizing sex work, and passing major sentencing reform legislation. but until we reimagine community safety and end police brutality, we must keep working to reform our racist criminal justice system that's shameful to us all.

pennsylvania, you got to get out and vote. you know, if we win pennsylvania, we win the whole thing. before the plague came in, i had it made. i wasn't coming to eerie. i mean, i have to be honest. there was no way i was coming. i didn't have to. and then we got hit with the plague and i had to go back to

work. hello, erie, may i please have your vote? >> i worked on campaigns. we made attack ads. we couldn't say anything that mean about an opponent that donald trump just said about himself. and that is the incumbent president's closing message. he's got 13 days until the election and he's telling pennsylvania voters, i didn't want to be here. i didn't want to have to work for your vote. i didn't want to have to ask for it. i didn't want to have to land air force one here but i'm losing so vote for me, please. philadelphia inquirer points out today, trump spoke as voting is already well under way in pennsylvania, a state both parties believe could decide the election. just over 1 million pennsylvanians had returned mail ballots out of 2.8 million mailed to voters so far. democrats have requested the majority, 64% of those ballots, and an avalanche of new polling today suggests trump could be falling behind in the keystone state. a new "usa today" suffolk poll shows trump down seven points

with a 4.5 margin of error. quinnipiac has trump down a little bit more at 8. cnn, trump down 10 in pennsylvania. joining our conversation is nbc news correspondent andrea mitchell. she's at that biden rally outside citizens bank park in philadelphia. andrea, erie, p.a., was one of the places that nbc news embedded me for my series on obama, obama, trump voters and one thing that was universal about all of them is they were hurting economically. their futures were either shattered by factory closures or they had extreme anxiety about that coming to pass. this message from trump seemed to be just in another reality from how he won the state. >> reporter: absolutely. i mean, he was an outsider that's time, and there was a real antipathy in this state in large parts of the state to hillary clinton, and she did not motivate or enjoy the really

enthusiastic support of philadelphia democrats, largely black democrats, who had come out in such large numbers for barack obama in '08 and in '12. so, they lost the state because of that less than, you know, what they had wanted black vote. also suburban voters in the five counties around philadelphia, suburban women in particular, and you saw that appealing, you know, cry for support from donald trump in the last few days, you know, suburban women, suburban house wives, as he put it, suburban women, please like me. like me. you know, that was -- that really resonated. so, that is the hope of the biden people, that they're going to do better in the suburbs, they're going to do better with suburban women, they're still probably going to lose wilkesboro. i talked to ed on the show today who on election day four years ago who live on our air said i don't like the turnout. i don't like what's happening in the suburbs and they're not

coming out for hillary. and i said, well, if that's the case, she's not going to win pennsylvania. and he said, that's right. and i thought he was lowballing to try to get people to come out, you know, after work. but he wasn't lowballing. he was really telling us the truth, and they could have a problem here. i don't really trust the polls that show a double-digit lead here for joe biden because trump has a lot of strength still and that's why he keeps going to erie. he keeps going to the places where there is still suspicion of what he says about joe biden and fracking. it's a big issue here. we'll have to see how this next debate goes. but the fact is that biden is doing a whole lot better and now he's got the -- what they hope is the magic campaigner. you watch barack obama. you carried it life when he says, i wasn't that woke when i was 20 but he said that voting does not make things perfect. it makes things better. yeah, that's the message to young black men and that is a small group there that he was speaking to but then he gets out

on the street with a bullhorn. i mean, when have we last seen that? so, he's coming here, and this is hardly going to be personal. he's going to get up on that podium that i can barely see, truth be told. this is where we're all set up. and we're in a crowded parking lot out at, you know, citizens bank arena where the dnc was, and -- four years ago, and it's going to be noisy and enthusiastic, but it's not the kind of rally that donald trump is holding. but they're hoping that that is exactly the message that people are afraid, people are, you know, frightened by the pandemic, the numbers are going up here in the northeast, in new jersey, connecticut, and pennsylvania as well, and they don't know what to expect. and so far, that message seems to be working for biden as well as the closing message that is hardly the attack mode that donald trump has been in the last week or two, going after

everyone since his, i guess, since he got out of covid. the closing message for biden is unity. take a look at that ad that they ran on the opener of the world series last night. the sam elliott voiceover and it could have been a ken burns pbs documentary it was so el elegaic. you're the pro. i mean, it's amazing. >> no, well, it's exactly what it evoked and it's so funny. i think it's a sign of how long we've been watching these campaigns and you've covered the ones i worked on but now i've covered a couple and the same thing struck out to me and we saw president obama grab a bullhorn and my brilliant producer, pat, said he's got a bullhorn and we went right to it because the president that knows that people that want to hear what he has to say is that combination of sort of listening and touching and you just watch

president obama on the trail here, and if they make some strategic choices in a state that i agree with you is probably a lot closer than double digits, it could be a really important state for both side. andrea mitchell, so fun to get to talk to you about these things and to both be covering them. thank you so much for joining us today. >> it's great to be here. you bet. my pleasure. >> thank you. joining our conversation now, "washington post" national political reporter and msnbc political analyst robert costa joins david plouffe, tim miller, and errin haines. four of you just talk amongst yourselves, you don't need me. bob costa, talk about what this obama stuff in philadelphia and what pennsylvania means for both sides. >> where you're seeing president obama is the city of philadelphia, but he's also making an overture to those voters in the collar counties around philadelphia, places like bucks county and burks county.

in the closing weeks of the campaign, he's not there with senator pat toomey. he's not appearing with brian fitzpatrick, a moderate republican in the house of representatives. instead, it's him on the stage espousing his own grievances, talking to his core voters, and it's not a competition for the suburban voter in the traditional way. i remember george w. bush during his presidential runs would always go to bucks county, not necessarily western and central pennsylvania, during the closing weeks. it was about the suburbs. but president trump's whole strategy is, rev up the turnout in the west, in the center, and hope that's enough, and don't forget about northeastern pennsylvania. there's a reason both campaigns keep going back there. it's biden's home territory. but it matters so much if biden's going to be doing well in the suburbs and in the cities, he needs to also do well with union democrats in the

northeast. >> i love your brilliant knowledge about all of these nooks and croonnannies but what hell is going on with the trump white house? i mean, what are they doing? what is -- how come no one can get him to attack his opponent? he's been on a three-day bender over tony fauci. he's running some bizarre twitter war against lesley stall and 60 minutes, an interview he was hardly coerced into doing. he's lashing out at bill barr for not prosecuting his opponent. what do they say is behind all this? >> well, i have a few sources inside the campaign and in the white house, and in short, here's how they describe it. they would rather have president trump on the road going to rallies because it takes sometimes two to three hours to travel there, an hour or two on stage behind the scenes, and two or three hours to travel back. they prefer to see him on the road, even if it has this image as tim was talking about of a super spreader event, because

that keeps him away from stewing at the white house, from tweeting all day, from going in different directions. they don't really have a coherent closing message. they're trying to get him to talk about his record, not necessarily always about the hunter biden situation. but they're not really able to control their own candidate. that's not a new story nearly four years into this presidency. >> but david plouffe, what is new is that donald trump wants to be crazy more than he wants to win. that, to me, feels very different from four years ago. >> well, nicole, the donald trump of 2016, whatever you want to say about him, seemed like a happy warrior out there. he would have never said what he said in erie county. that is political malpractice of the highest order. obama won that county by 18,000 votes. trump swung it, won it by 2,000. that's a big chunk of his pennsylvania winning margin. so, yes, you see -- i thought in the town hall last week, he did with savannah guthrie, i thought

he looked small, almost defeated. he doesn't look like someone who's trying to piece together what you need to win. he insulted -- it was almost like that famous headline in new york in the '70s, trump to erie county, drop dead. and it's amazing. >> right. right. >> so, i think pennsylvania is key because here is why it's key. michigan, i think, is the one that's most solid for biden. if biden wins all of the clinton states, trump's given up on minnesota for all intents and purposes, that puts him at 240 electoral votes. surprisingly, wisconsin looks very strong. let's say he wins that, that's 258. if you don't win pennsylvania, then you win arizona, that puts you at 269 and if you don't win florida and north carolina, you've got to win the second district in either maine or nebraska, so pennsylvania's key. i agree with you and andrea. i don't think biden's up ten, but he's up, and you know, groups like tim are doing a tremendous job in pennsylvania, i think, helping him max out his support amongst republican voters there. and hillary clinton really struggled outside of pittsburgh, both suburban and rural and

exurban areas. the idea is the place where trump has the most resilient support but biden's cutting into it. philly turnout wasn't as great as the clinton campaign would have liked but it wasn't as problematic or milwaukee or detroit. she walked out of the philadelphia area, the city anyway, with enough votes. she didn't max out her suburban so that's why pennsylvania's so important but trump does seem like he's just going through the motions a little bit here, which is puzzling to me because it's not like he was a disciplined candidate in '16 but he was working for votes. he was hungry and you don't see that right now. and that above all else is maybe the thing that surprises me the most. and not just we're 12 days out from election day. we're in the middle of the election. so he was giving that really insulting speech to voters in erie as they were filling out their ballots. and i have no doubt some people might have said, you know what? i'm done with this. >> yeah. you know, errin, i also think you look at where trump -- trump telegraphs all of his problems. he can't sort of carry any burdens with dignity or grace so

he spews them all out on the stump or his twitter feed and the crying out for women to like him, as a couple people have noted, suburban women, please like me. i mean, what robert costa described was what any sort of caregiver recognizes as dependent, a burden, he's flying around the u.s. on the taxpayers' expense to get them out of their hair because he's too reckless from the white house where he can watch cable news and tweet. that is basically a state charge. we as the state are taking care of his mood swings. obama is running -- obama's message today for a closing argument for his former vice president, joe biden, is about the country. they didn't even mention trump's name. i mean, really, again, we don't know how this is going to end. we don't know what happens on election day but the contrast is so stark in everything as andrea mitchell said from what the rallies look like, as robert costa is reporting, from what

they decide to do with their candidates, to what they're talking about in these close -- not even closing days. as david plouffe points out, a lot of people have already voted, more than 35 million. >> yeah. i mean, what a difference four years makes. again, nicole, i was here in pennsylvania four years ago covering this election and not only was donald trump here early and often but his family members were here early and often, not in philadelphia but in eastern pennsylvania, in central pennsylvania, those disaffected blue-collar white voters were seeing that campaign making the case to how they were going to make their lives better, and they believed that, and that's how you end up getting those obama-trump voters in 2016. i talked to them the day after the election and what they told me was they saw eric trump, ivanka trump, donald trump jr., melania trump. they didn't see hillary clinton in those places. in places like, you know, michigan or wisconsin and in

pennsylvania. but you know who was on the stump then? joe biden. he was one of the most prominent surrogates in the home stretch of the 2016 election, and he maybe has learned some of the lessons about maybe why hillary clinton lost in those crucial states because she wasn't there in the home stretch, and so this is not an either/or proposition, i don't think, for this campaign. it's not just having a barack obama out there and him not showing up in these places and making the case to these voters as well. that's absolutely happening, and i think that that could be a difference maker in this election. i don't know that we have not seen, maybe, the silent majority, especially when we actually get to election day in pennsylvania. don't know if the margins are really as large as that, but you know, i remember in 2016, the first inkling that i had that donald trump might win, i was at a women for trump event, and melania trump was the headliner and you may remember this because melania trump revealed at that event that if she became

first lady, she was going to make cyberbullying her priority. you may remember that. but seeing the women who were at that event really showed me, you know, these are not rabid folk that are at the rallies. the kind of, you know, folks that some people felt like were in the extremes of his campaign. these were the kind of people that worked in your office building, that you would see, you know, in line at starbucks, and that really gave me my first clue that this was a possibility for him. that does not seem to be the same case here four years later. >> all right, everyone is staying put. let me tell you once again what we're waiting for. we're waiting and watching for former president obama to take the stage in philadelphia. if he doesn't do that right on time, hopefully we'll get to ask tim miller about the mute button. don't go anywhere. don't go anyw.

he didn't walk out. the characterization of that -- he spent over 45 minutes with lesley stall. i've looked at every single minute of the interview and then some. we have tape of every single minute. listen, when you have a 60 minutes reporter, they should be a reporter, not an opinion journalist, and she came across more like an opinion journalist nan a re than a real reporter. >> that wasn't a media critic. that was the white house chief of staff, who's watching every single minute and then some of a

presidential interview which is literally part of his job. veteran journalist lesley stahl and prebutting it for some reason. it's clear the interview didn't go well. david plouffe, errin haines and tim miller will all still here. i'm going to come back to you real quick because i want to talk to tim about the mute button. what are they doing here? >> in 2017, when president trump came into the white house, steve bannon used to say, he'd rather fight reporters, the president, he would rather fight reporters and the media than democrats. it was a better foil, politically, and so what you're seeing here is on one level the president saying he's having a disagreement with "60 minutes" and cbs news and that's the surface but what you're really seeing is a president trying to pick a fight, a president who's behind in battleground states and he wants to show his core voters that he's fighting with the media, fighting with lesley

stahl, this icon of cbs news and "60 minutes" and my sourcing says he came into in interview in a combative posture politically and he got what he wanted out of this, a spat, and even though many republicans say it's a distraction, if you followed president trump, this is a classic move. >> you know, tim miller, what's so confounding, though, is that the trump coalition is made up of the very people -- the pieces that have fallen away are made up of people that are offended, the reason they left in '18 was because of the spats with all the media figures and all this. but i want your thoughts on that, but first, let me just show you a prelude to the debate. donald trump's mic serendipitously went out last night. let's watch.

>> i wonder who did that to our mic. i don't believe it was joe. you know who it was? crooked hillary. >> i mean, to whoever did it, america thanks you, but tim miller, donald trump is not used to being muted. he's going to have that experience tomorrow night at the debate. >> yeah, that was a blissful eight seconds yesterday when that mic was muted. here's what i think about this debate. unfortunately, i hate to be a debbie downer, but honestly, the first debate went great. i think this is another example of donald trump, you know, complaining and complaining and complaining and actually, you know, people who are trying to -- who actually care about norms and decorum and the way we used to do things, you know, trying to corral this tiger, and he's not corralable, and frankly, i wish they would have just let him -- let us see raw trump because it's not working for him.

anyway, i think that he'll complain about it and i think it will benefit him at the same time, having a mute button for a couple of minutes during the debate, and the "60 minutes" thing, i just -- you know, far be it from me to criticize the master media manipulator and doing a classic trump move like bob said, but you know, generally, nicole, when we -- when one of my candidates had a bad interview, we tried to bury it and tried to get as little attention on it as possible, so i don't know what the strategy is here to maximize attention on a good interview -- on a bad interview that's going to be airing to his -- to the voters thaend thae that he needs, by the way the real voters that are leaving him. seniors. who watches "60 minutes"? largely older voters on network news show like that. so anyway, i think that it's maybe not the best strategy, but we'll see. >> well, i mean, you're being diplomatic. it's a moronic strategy for the parts of the trump coalition

that are weak, that are sick, that are anemic. it's probably a great strategy with the core trump voters, but that is not the mission in these final days. david plouffe, errin haines, robert costa, tim miller, what a treat to get to have all of you for most of the hour. thank you so much for spending it with us. when we return, a surge in coronavirus cases across this country and the cdc now says the death toll from the pandemic is much higher than the actual count. "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. 133 million americans have pre-existing conditions

such as high blood pressure, diabetes, and asthma. this administration and senate republicans want to overturn laws requiring insurance companies to cover people with pre-existing conditions. they're rushing a lifetime appointment to the supreme court to change the law through the courts. 70% of americans want to keep protections for pre-existing conditions in place. tell our leaders in washingtn to stop playing games with our healthcare. he used to have gum problems. now, he uses therabreath healthy gums oral rinse with clinically-proven ingredients and his gum problems have vanished. (crowd applauding) therabreath, it's a better mouthwash. at walmart, target and other fine stores.

into environments and thinking about what we're doing with family and friends at these gatherings is very important. don't let your guard down. it's an innocent idea of going up to the cabin and ends in a tragic with somebody dying. >> today more grim realities from the front lines of the pandemic as we continue our climb to the third peak this year with more than 60,000 new cases in each of the last two days. 39 states plus washington, d.c., have seen double-digital percentage creases in cases over the last two weeks. so far more than 8.3 million americans have become infected with coronavirus and more than 222,000 souls have been lost. joining us now is dr. er win led

renner from columbia universities. i think most people's thoughts are -- i think one of the symptoms of having lived with this for so long is people now want to know how to take care of their families, their sort of blast radius, their communities. what should people be doing now and what plans should they be making for the holidays, if any? >> yeah. so nicole, we have to modify our plans for the holidays. there's no question about it. we need to be safe and make sure that we're limiting the number of people that come to our thanksgiving dinners and so on and we need to make sure people are separated, wearing, masks, and we don't have anybody come over who may have been in contact themselves. the other big thing is we have to hunker down here. i don't think this is going to fully go away for the next two years or so. it isn't as bad hopefully, but we need to be prepared for the

long haul and support each other. try to help all your friends and relatives get through this really difficult time, nicole. >> we are going to switch over and dip into president obama making his first rally appearance for his former vice president, joe biden. >> what beautiful weather we got here, a little indian summer. you know, i know the president spent some time in erie last night. apparently he complained about having to travel here. and then he cut the event short, poor guy. i don't feel that way. i love coming to pennsylvania. [ cheers ] you guys delivered for me twice, and i am back here tonight to ask you to deliver the white house for joe biden and kamala harris. [ cheers ] i want to thank mr.

philadelphia, charlie mac, his daughter, what an outstanding young lady she was. those of you who are fathers and have daughters, you know how that feels when you see your daughters just shining. i know a little bit about that. and it was great to see representatives brendan boyle, scan lan, governor tom wolf, attorney general john shapiro, mayor jim canny. philadelphia, we got 13 days. that's our lucky number right here. 13 days until the most important election of our lifetimes. and you don't have -- you don't have to wait for november 3rd to cast your ballot. you've got two ways to vote right now. number one, you can vote early

in person through next tuesday. anybody people voted here early already? [ cheers ] [ horns honking ] >> if you haven't, just go to i will vote.com. you can vote from home with a mail-in ballot. just go to iwillvote.com/pa to request your ballot right away. before you send it back, pennsylvania's got this thing where you got to use both envelopes. so you got to read the directions carefully to make sure your vote counts. if you've already voted, then you got to help your friends and family make a plan to vote. take them with you if you vote early. or if you vote in person on election day, because this election requires every single

one of us to do our part. and what we do these next 13 days will matter for decades to come. now, last time i was in philadelphia, i was at the constitution center. and i was delivering a speech for the democratic national convention this year. and i said during that speech i've sat in the oval office with both of the men who are running for president. and they are very different people. i explained that i never thought donald trump would embrace my vision or continue my policies, but i did hope for the sake of the country that he might show some interest in taking the job seriously. but it hasn't happened.

he hasn't shown any interest in doing the work or helping anybody but himself and his friends or treating the presidency like a reality show that he can use to get attention. and, by the way, even then his tv ratings are down. so you know that upsets him. [ horns honking ] but the thing is, this is not a reality show. this is reality. and the rest of us have had to live with the consequences of him proving himself incapable of taking the job seriously. at least 220,000 americans have died. more than 100,000 small businesses have closed. millions of jobs are gone. our proud reputation around the world is in tatters.

presidents up for re-election usually ask if the country was better off than it was four years ago. i'll tell you one thing, four years ago you would be tailgating here at the lincoln center watching a speech. the only people truly better off than they were four years ago are the billionaires who got his tax cuts. right now as we speak, trump won't even extend relief to the millions of families who are having trouble paying the rent or putting food on the table because of this pandemic. but he's been doing all right by himself. as it turns out, this was just reported in the last 48 hours. we know that he continues to do business with china because he because he's got a secret chinese bank account. how is that possible? how is that possible?

a secret chinese bank account. listen, can you imagine if i had a secret chinese bank account when i was running for re-election? you think -- you think fox news might have been a little concerned about that? they would have called me beijing barry. [ horns honking ] it is not a great idea to have a president who owes a bunch of money to people overseas. that's not a good idea. i mean, of the taxes donald trump pays, he may be sending more to foreign governments than he pays in the united states. his first year in the white house he only paid $750 in federal income tax. listen, my first job was at a baskin-robbins when i was 15 years old.