okay. we have a lot to get to tonight. film legend and searing trump critic robert de niro is joining us. and i'll be asking him all about his expectations for next week. also, we now know who anonymous is. please applaud. the former homeland security official who enraged donald trump on publishing his 2018 "new york times" op-ed calling trump impetuous, adversarial, petty and ineffective. but first, there are now just six days left for america to decide who will lead our country for the next four years. now at a breaking point and desperate for progress on the economy, race relations and a coronavirus -- a coronavirus kras that has taken more than 228,000 lives and infected millions more. in the face of these numbers

trump continues to utilize his favorite form of gaslighting which is lying through his teeth on the covid surge. even getting the so-called white house science office to say trump ended the pandemic as the nation hits record cases and hospitalizations. now, first of all, you should never trust anything affiliated with trump called the science office. and secondly, a lie of this magnitude is deliberately harming you and your loved ones and stoking a trumpian delusion around the pandemic. but that delusion is getting punctured every day by none other than covid itself. >> all they talk about is covid, covid, covid. covid, covid. and we've made such progress. it's incredible. >> the state shattered a new case record. >> el paso sees yet another day of 1,000-plus new cases. >> the hospitals have said that they may have to start rationing care. >> it's very clear that we're in an alarming state right now. >> you turn on and you say,

cases have jumped. cases. because we do -- now, if we did half the testing, we'd have half the cases. >> the cases are actually going up. they're real. because hospitalizations and deaths are starting to go up again. >> we're rounding the corner. we're rounding the corner beautifully. >> i can just say from being at the bedside for patients' deaths that this is not a hoax and this takes a real toll on americans' lives. >> ah, the truth. and then last night, blue lips in maga land. hundreds of trump supporters were left stranded for hours in freezing temperatures after a superspreader rally in omaha, nebraska, because buses couldn't get them home long after trump flew away. in the toasty comfort of air force one. the perfect metaphor for the trump campaign, joe biden sure thinks so. >> just look at what happened last night in omaha. after trump -- after the trump

rally ended. hundreds of people, including older americans and children, were stranded in subzero freezing temperatures for hours. several folks ended up in the hospital. it's an image that captured president trump's whole approach to this crisis. he gets his photo op and he gets out. he leaves everyone else to suffer the consequence of his failure to make a responsible plan. >> joining me now is democratic pollster and strategist cornell belcher and charlie sykes, editor at large at the bulwark. it strikes me that joe biden cares more about donald trump's supporters than donald trump does. he was like, oh, i didn't even wear a hat. what better place is there to be in 10-degree weather with all these senior citizens and then left them stranded. >> those were the forgotten americans. remember four years ago donald trump said, i will be your voice? apparently he forget the forgotten americans. also coming into places like wisconsin and downplaying the coronavirus, i mean, it is tone

deaf. it is callous, and it is dangerous. and you really get the sense that karma is grabbing donald trump by his presidency right now. that this pandemic that he ignored and that he downplayed is now coming back to really destroy his re-election effort because everywhere he goes this is the story line. not that the president has this amazing event, it's that look how he's treating people. look at the contempt that he has. look at his denial of reality of something that is dominating the news. this is dominating the news in places like wisconsin, and yet he's coming back here again this week -- he's going to be in green bay, and it's going to be another superspreader event. at the time when every single day we hit a new record number of cases, hospitalization and deaths. >> it is astounding, cornell. let me play for you -- i guess

sometimes science expert and soul in a deep freeze spokesman, used to be like a normal republican. here he is talking about how it's fine that trump is taking his covid superspreader rallies into places that are suffering record cases of covid. >> are you at all concerned, given that there has been an outbreak in vice president's orbit of people around him and that there is currently an outbreak -- i mean, hospitals in wisconsin are near capacity. and so is there -- does that give you any pause or the vice president any pause about going there and holding a big rally? >> no, it doesn't. the vice president has the best doctors in the world around him. they've obviously contact traced and have come to the conclusion it's fine for him to be out on the campaign trail. >> cornell, their, like, slogan should be, oh, we all right. we got money and doctors. y'all on your own, but we okay. i cannot believe that that was his answer to her question.

she wasn't asking about him and vice president pence. she was asking about the people. >> it's a reckless disregard for regular, everyday americans, and i think that image of so many of those people stuck out there in the cold waiting on trump, it is -- it is really symbolic of -- of this 3 1/2 so years of his presidency. but, look, i mean, it's also symbolic of his failure to take covid seriously. and there is not a -- a more -- look, among with the -- with racism and discrimination, covid is top of mind for americans across the board. look, you know, there's a reason why, you know, biden leads trump 57-39. on responding to -- people trust him to respond to covid. i mean, that's sort of -- that's an incredible number and sort of hard to get from underneath that number when the white house continues to, you know, downplay covid and say they've won the

war on covid. there's not a -- there's not a suburban mom who they desperately need to -- who the trump campaign desperately needs who looks at that statement and looks at what trump's doing and goes as they sit their with their daughter who has got to homeschool because of covid and their father whose hours have been cut back because of covid and say, yeah, i want four more years of this. >> it's -- i have to go back to you, charlie, because you talk to conservatives -- when you were doing talk radio, you talked to these people. i need to understand why people worship somebody who obviously despises them. donald trump has no plan for a second term. his plan is we had the greatest economy in the world. i'm going to keep saying that even though it isn't true. it's like he's establishing in the past. living in the past. here is his son-in-law jared kushner, who at one point i guess was in charge of the covid relief. and here he is talking about what trump's plan was, to the extent he had one. here he is. >> the last thing was kind of

doing the guidelines, which was interesting. and that, in my mind, was almost like, you know, it was almost like trump getting the country back from the doctors, right? in the sense that what he now did was, you know, he's got to own the open up. >> i need you to explain this to me. jared kanoodles with black people and rappers, and disses black folks and makes them sound like they're lazy and worthless. trump claims he loves these people so much. he gathers them around. he just wants to be with them and kiss them and everything like that. here is his son-in-law saying our plan was to set the doctors aside because we cared about getting those economic numbers up. these people despise their own voters. why do they not see that and react to that with equal revulsion? >> that's an excellent question. partisanship is a hell of a drug. a lot of these folks live in an

alternate reality. you have the cultists who get their news from fox news and facebook.com and think that the coronavirus is a complete hoax and have been in complete denial. i have to say there is a larger group of people who i think, you know, might be thinking that you vote for donald trump because it's a big middle finger to the left. to democrats. but have to be rattled by the president's indifference. this is in the laws, i think i've used this phrase on your show before, it's called depraved indifference to something that is affecting everyone's life. so i don't know how that's going to play out. look, i mean, there are going to be some people so locked into their own bubble, who are so invested in donald trump that they're going to go along with all of this. i think you're making a very important point. you know, you go to some of these rallies and the people will say, well, we have been looked down on, people have kicked dust in our face and finally we're winning and we have somebody who is going to speak for us. but what is -- what shows more contempt for his own base than

the fact that he lies to them on a regular basis? that he thinks they will respond to the most vulgar dog whistles and that he's willing to put their life and their safety at risk in some of these things? i thought that hogan's comment was incredibly revealing. that, in fact, when you ask about, is it possible that you're putting your own people at risk, it's like who are these people? it's all about us. so i think there's a reason why donald trump is going to lose wisconsin last week, and i think it's because, in fact, people are looking at him and seeing him for who he is. >> and, you know, i have to say that, you know, if hogan and these others think that donald trump gives a damn about them, wait until they're not in the administration anymore. let's see how many of them get hired by the -- in the 15-person licensing firm that is the trump organization that doesn't have any money left and can't get loans anymore. let's just see how they work out. look at miles taylor. they hired him. he was the right demographic for him. nice young white guy.

they hired him. that's what the whole administration looks like. now trump has put him in prison. turns out he's anonymous. we now know that he's anonymous. i have thoughts on this and i'm going to let both of you guys weigh in on it. because he's the example of what happens when you play ball then you realize, oh, this ball is full of poison. maybe i should throw it away. then you're on the outs. let me play you what he said to me when he was on this show on august 25th. and i asked him about, you know, he was in the department of homeland security. so i asked him about those issues. >> this idea that donald trump wanted the border closed. that he essentially said do what you got to do to close it and i'll pardon anyone who commits a crime in the process. was that something being said openly inside dhs by the president? >> yeah. not widely within the department, but when that episode happened in april of 2019, at least for me, that was a moment where i decided i have to go. i mean, i can't stay in this administration any longer.

the president wanted officials to do things that were illegal. >> i mean, i don't know what the breaking point becomes, charlie, but i guess sometimes people find one and i don't know what we do with -- with that as a society. do we say, all good, you made a lot of money being anonymous and now it's all fine? >> yeah, you know, i had him on my podcast and asked him that same question. what was your breaking point? why didn't you do this earlier? now that you find out he's anonymous i think it's a bigger question. look, i remember when the op-ed piece appeared in 2018 and the article that i wrote said, you know, the expiration date for breaking with this administration has already passed. and yet he stayed on. >> yeah. >> and he wrote the book. i'm glad that he broke with the administration. i'm glad that he's saying the things he's saying right now, but it does raise the question, if you went to work for donald trump in 2017 and you stayed through that year and you stayed through the family separations and the kids in cages, at what

point, you know, are we supposed to think that, okay, you were part of all of this? it's not like you were not warned. so i have really mixed feelings about him. think it was a little bit -- not a little bit, it was dramatically too late. >> yeah. give me jessica denison who broke completely in her own name or vindman who risked and lost his whole career. this young man, he didn't even include the child separations in this op-ed. so apparently that didn't rise to the level of putting in the anonymous thing. so i hope that more people will break and i hope people will wake up. as your colleagues say, bring their souls back into their bodies. that's a good lincoln project saying. thank you, cornell belcher, charlie sykes. you guys are great. up next on "the reidout," steve kornacki with some brand-new battleground state polls and what they will tell us about which way undecided voters are breaking. i know you want to know that. plus, there is a lot of anxiety out there about this election. we know. voter suppression, intimidation

efforts. we have some amazing experts tonight and they're going to answer your questions about what is really, really going on. and one of the greatest actors of our time, the robert de niro, joins me on what's at stake in this election. back with more of "the reidout" after this. i'm searching for info on options trading, and look, it feels like i'm just wasting time. that's why td ameritrade designed a first-of-its-kind, personalized education center. oh. their award-winning content is tailored to fit your investing goals and interests. and it learns with you, so as you become smarter, so do its recommendations. so it's like my streaming service. well except now you're binge learning. see how you can become a smarter investor with a personalized education from td ameritrade.

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all right. we are just six, count them, six days away from the end of the voting, and there is a constant stream of polls across the country that are coming at us fast and furious. msnbc national political correspondent steve kornacki is back at the big board to help us make sense of it all. take it away and reduce our anxiety, steve. >> well, joy, i can show you, looking at this two different ways, i guess, here. here is the national polling average right now. we've got a bunch of different national polls out, you know, this week, the last 24 hours

certainly and, and the average right now is about a seven-point lead for joe biden in this final week nationally. how does that compare to the final week of the 2016 campaign? remember, of course, trump was behind late in that race and pulled it out. probably worth noting it was closer. his gap was just about two points. a little under two points at this point in 2016. trump's gap now 7.1. so, again, there is still time here. we've had that talk that, hey, maybe trump doesn't need to -- he could afford potentially, i should say trump could afford to lose the popular vote perhaps by a wider margin than he did in 2016 and still get the electoral college. so he doesn't necessarily have to cut it as far as he did in 2016, but he does need to cut it some in the closing days of this race. if you just look at the electoral college here, this is where things finished in 2016. trump's vulnerabilities right now, we know wisconsin, michigan, pennsylvania, ohio, north carolina, georgia, florida, even texas right now and iowa. these are all states he won in

2016. where to some degree he's vulnerable right now. he doesn't need to win every single one of these states, but he needs to win the vast majority of these states to hold on to that electoral college victory. could he flip any blue states? could he flip any states that clinton won in 2016? one that may be one to keep an eye on in the next week, nevada, that could be a bit of a wild card. six electoral votes there. trump in an ideal world could pluck that from the democratic column. he's playing defense in a lot of states and needs just about all of them, not all, but just about all to break his way in this final week. >> okay. so what we need to know for us to be able to sleep at night. we have a viewer question, they asked how many -- knowing how many people have voted early, and mail-in ballots, what's the likelihood, this viewer is asking, that we will have an outcome on the 3rd? how many days or weeks will it likely take to declare a winner? that's from one of our great

viewers. >> yeah, it's an interesting question on the timing of all of this. here you see some of the early poll closing times on election night. draw your attention to a couple of states here. florida, for instance. florida is critical to any trump 270 scenario out there. 7:00 p.m. eastern, most of florida is going to close. you see the star there. the panhandle, low population, the vast majority of the state is going to close at 7:00 p.m. eastern. and florida reports out its votes -- tends to report out its vote very quickly. it's a state i like to say was doing covid-style elections before there was a covid, meaning mail, early voting, getting it reported out quickly. they have a pretty good track record of doing that. we could get an answer from florida the night of the election. if biden wins florida, trump's 270 snares are hard to imagine. other states we could be getting that kind of a readout from,

7:30, north carolina, 7:30, ohio. also, georgia, we could be getting a lot from georgia on election night. these are all states if we get the vote in or the vast majority of vote election night and know what's happening in these states, they could be offering very, very big clues about what's happening nationally. >> all right. steve kornacki, who is not allowed to leave that board. we'll roll a cot out for you if you need snacks or food, we got you, but you can't leave. >> i'll take you up on that. >> appreciate it. thank you. next up on "the reidout," with republican lawmakers doing everything they can to keep americans from voting, our guide to surviving this election and making sure your vote counts. we are answering your questions, more of your questions, next. ♪ ♪

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time. with so much on the line from climate change to health care to civil rights. 72 million of you have already cast your ballots and made your voices heard. wow. but with sinx days left, which can feel like an eternity, many of you are wondering what these polls tell us about election day. what's the deal with these long lines of voters and what kind of nefarious legal shenanigans should we be worried about? well, tonight we are going our best to answer those questions, your questions. we've pulled together some of our favorite experts to help us out. joining me now founder and editor of the cycle and senior adviser to the lincoln project. dave wasserman, house editor for the cook political report. and latisha brown, co-founder of black voters matter. let's get to the questions. first up, from terry snow, who is worried about voting and she writes, millions of mail-in ballots have not been returned and some say we can't rely on the postal service with a week to go. what's the best strategy for getting your vote counted for

those who still have their ballots? latisha, i'm going to show that to you. should people rely on the mail? >> you know, if people have not voted by this time, six days out, i would suggest that they go vote in person. it's late to be able to mail in your ballot. if you've already mailed in your ballot, there are a lot of apps on now you can track your ballot. there is a ballot tracker. i would enencourage them to go to our website, blackvotersmatterfund/org to make sure their ballot has gone in. >> real quickly to say with you, are the lines we're seeing for early voting due to voter enthusiasm or do some districts simply not have enough polling places? i'm from a small town and the lines in pennsylvania, new york, georgia, texas, et cetera, are intimidating. >> i think it's a combination of

both. we're seeing a compounded issue related to voter suppression over time. we've seen the massing closing of polling sites since 2013 in many of these cities. we've actually seen secretary of states literally be able to drop people from the voting rolls. many had to reregister this year. there is a combination where people are determined. what i think has happened this year with all that has happened in an unraveling around voter suppression and unraveling of the postal service, the voters we're talked to are p'd off. they are determined that nothing is going to stop their voting. some people are voting because they are determined that their vote is going to count and their voice is going to count, but i also think we're seeing the long lines because there has been a concerted effort over time to really be able to restrict access to people voting and not anticipating that people will come out in the numbers that we're seeing this year. >> all right. let's go to the doc, rachel b, w

are manil-in ballots counted, b hand or machine? is every state different? >> this is a really complex question and that's because our electoral system is completely decentralized. so we have a 50-state system. 50 states running totally different systems. and, you know, when you go in and vote, some places it may not be this way, but many states use those electronic voting machines. that's not the case with an absentee or a mail-in ballot. it's going to be a paper ballot. so those do have to be hand-counted. and that is why we are anticipating a very slow count, especially from the states they are, you know, what i would call emergency expansion states. they expanded mail voting. they might have had the skeletor frames of it. i think pennsylvania had 5% of

its electorate using it, so they had some infrastructure for it, but certainly not enough to process millions of ballots. >> yeah. >> so to answer that question, it is -- it varies a lot, but in general, when it comes in through the mail, it's going to be a hand-marked paper ballot, which is nice because there is a paper trail. the downside, of course, is that it leaves the voter vulnerable to making mistakes that can cause their ballot to be disqualified. so if you did send in a paper ballot, you always want to check and make sure your vote has been counted and that if there is an issue with your ballot, you do have time to rectify those issues. if you catch it, some states do notify voters. not all states. obviously it's going to be contingent on whether you're in a voter friendly state, ie, you know, aka a blue state or a red state. >> yeah. >> so do check in if you sent in a ballot as latasha pointed out. track your ballot, do that, make

sure your vote counted. >> just to do a little sidebar for our audience, we did get this decision that the supreme court has not allowed pennsylvania republicans to justly automatically stop counting the votes of mail order ballots -- mail-in ballots that come in after election day. amy coney barrett actually stood down and did not vote on that, so that did not go through. just for those of you that live in pennsylvania, let's make sure you understand that the justices are not going to consider this before the election. oh, go on. >> joy, i just have to point out. they left a major loophole. they left a major loophole that says they reserve the right to reconsider whether they will take the case. before election -- so they may take the case still. >> right. >> i just think people really need to know that they may still decide to hear that case in pennsylvania. >> yeah. right. the only difference is they're not going to hear it before the election. so what's going to happen to your vote, if you mail it in and it gets there, it's postmarked

before but gets there after the election, those ballots are going to be counted but they're going to be set aside for, as rachel said, a potential later case that could go to the supreme court. don't mail it in. >> your best bet, bring it physically in. >> bring it in. all right. let's get dave in here. i'm going to send you a question, does polling take into account a rejected ballot, voters who were deregistered, et cetera? do these count as registered or likely voters because they were rejected and intended to vote. if they send a ballot that was rejected. that means somebody who maybe didn't put the right signature or maybe they had to vote provisionally for some reason. do those votes generally get counted? >> it's going to vary by the state, joy, and there are going to be record numbers of provisional ballots cast in this election in large part because a lot of voters who requested mail ballots all of a sudden they have real questions about the reliability and security of the mail. and getting their ballot in on time.

so a number of them are going to decide in person. depends on the state, you have to sign an affidavit when you get to the polls and cast provisional ballot to ensure -- so that there is a safeguard in place that no one is voting twice. and, of course, the counties or municipalities in charge of elections have to process those, and they take longer to process provisionals afterwards, and in some cases adjudicate them to make sure that the voter is eligible to vote. especially, you know, in situations where -- where a voter has moved recently, but the registration is not updated. we are bound to see large numbers -- larger than usual numbers of rejected ballots because voters are not accustomed to how to correctly cast a mail ballot in some cases. consider, as rachel pointed out earlier, in pennsylvania it's only been in the mid single digits, the percentage of all voters who have voted by mail

before. >> yeah. >> in north carolina it's also been in the low single digits. so we are bound to see rejection rates that could lead to hundreds of thousands of votes that were cast being rejected on technicalities. >> very quickly, dave, i want to stay with you for a moment. hershey hips as well as tony mara basically asking the same question. what kind of a lead would biden need for this to be an election that doesn't go to the supreme court? >> look, i think biden's got a lead right now that would withstand a normal polling error and a gap between the electoral college and the popular vote of the size that we saw in 2016. that said, biden does not want to be in a gray area where -- where his margin is dependent on ball ballots that have arrived after election day. that in some states, say they will count them now, but republicans will be sure to -- and the president could trumpet misinformation about how those ballots are somehow invalid,

even though that would be false. >> yeah. >> so, look, democrats clearly want to win by a comfortable enough margin so that there's no gray area to be able to sue to reject them. and, look, most secretaries of state, most state legislators are dependent, you know, they -- they want to run an election that is not controversial. >> right. >> they want to make sure that -- that ballots count. and so i think it's rather unlikely that we'll end up in that kind of scenario. >> and let's not forget, there are 20 republican senators who are also on those ballots. so if they try to negate elections in these states, they'd be negating those folks' votes as well. just go and vote in person. that's the bottom line. drop off your absentee ballot. i think our experts agree on that. thank you all very much. appreciate your expertise. okay. and don't forget to visit nbc's plan your vote site for even more helpful information. and up next, america's covid testing czar says we've reached a critical point in the

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proposition 16 takes on discrimination. some women make as little as 42% of what a man makes. voting yes on prop 16 helps us fix that. it's supported by leaders like kamala harris and opposed by those who have always opposed equality. we either fall from grace or we rise. together. proposition 16 provides equal opportunities, levelling the playing field for all of us. vote yes on prop 16. the unfair money bail system. he, accused of rape. while he, accused of stealing $5. the stanford rapist could afford bail; got out the same day. the senior citizen could not; forced to wait in jail nearly a year. voting yes on prop 25 ends this failed system, replacing it with one based on public safety. because the size of your wallet

shouldn't determine whether or not you're in jail. vote yes on prop 25 to end money bail. just two weeks ago, we were having public discourse around 500 cases a day, 700 cases a day. we broke the record three times. even though the mortality rate is better. the more people come in, the more this goes unabated, there are going to be a lot of dark days going into the fall and that's really unfortunate. >> doctors in el paso, texas are warning about an alarming surge in coronavirus cases as the rest of the country continues to get pummelled by the pandemic. we're nearing 9 million cases in america. 9 million. with more than 228,000 deaths. 43 states are seeing at least a 10% increase in new cases over the past two weeks. in the national seven-day

average now at more than 71,000 cases a day. according to donald trump, well, that's just because of testing. >> you know why we have so many cases? because we test more. so we go around and -- by the way, we're testing very young people, too. we're testing people in school. we're testing everybody. in many ways, i hate it. in many ways, i hate it. >> he's wrong, obviously, but don't take my word for it. take the man in charge of the government's testing program. >> we do believe and the data show that the cases are going up. it's not just a function of testing. yes, we're getting more cases identified, but the cases are going up. we know that, too, because the hospitalizations are going up. >> listen to the scientist, not the fading reality show star. in fact, patients flooding hospitals in places like el paso, texas and throughout north dakota. wisconsin's chief medical officer called the situation a

nightmare scenario after the state set new single-day records in cases and deaths yesterday. a "new york times" analysis found ten are in north dakota are wisconsin. wisconsin is also one of three states where donald trump held a superspreader rally yesterday. just let that sink in. i'm joined now by dr. vin gupta, global health policy expert and pulmonologist. dr. gupta, we do this every week. i appreciate you being here to try to walk through this with us. can you get your head around why the cases are surging again right now? >> good evening, joy. thanks for the invitation. there's a few reasons. so let's be clear. what we know now is that pandemic fatigue has really set in as schools have reopened. and so now we have a situation across the country. school districts across the done, those that have gone in-person, at least for part of the week, they're largely open without testing.

so we don't actually know what's happening, but we're pretty darn sure that in these school districts and campuses across the country there is transmission, community transmission of covid-19. why does that matter, joy? it matters because in cases where there is testing, we've seen that spikes in the 20 to 29-year-old age bracket proceed by about four weeks of spike in an older age group. so we saw that in wisconsin, which is now heavily hit. they have field honestlies in and around green bay because their icus are getting full. we saw that in iowa. we saw that again in georgia. so that's one reason. number two, we know that cold air and dryer air, that's what flu and especially covid-19, that's the type of environment they like. so we're seeing that -- that one-two combination, lots of in-person engagement, lots of fatigue in addition to environmental considerations combining for a one-two punch increase cases. >> you've said, you know, pandemic fatigue. i have to show you and show the audience. this is los angeles dodgers star

justin turner, who tested positive for covid. so he's sick with covid. he was pulled out of the world series because of it. but here he is running out and celebrating with the dodgers. smooching his wife. chilling like it's totally normal. i mean, this is pandemic fatigue writ large. he had a mask on for some of it. people who know they're sick still congregate with other people i think is stunning. they're doing like the president of the united states. let's talk about the big, big picture. i have to show that because i think it's so outrageous. i asked producers to pull international numbers today because the united states is a country of, what, 326 million people, right? we have 228,000 people dead. when you look at germany, france, they're also -- they're having to now implement new restrictions. they actually did the right thing. they had a fairly normal summer. got back and reopened some of their economies. they're now having a surge as well. you've got to look at the whole world around the entire planet. when you sort of put us against countries like brazil, india, plaeks,

mexico, the united kingdom, italy, spain, peru, france, iran, like, this is us way at the top, big. the entire continent of africa, the whole african continent, right? and this is 3.6 billion people or however many people live on the african continent. they've had 1.7 million cases. and they've only had 41,000 deaths. think about that for a second. the entire country -- the entire continent of africa, multiple countries, over 100 countries. they have only had 41,000 deaths. i looked up an article, partly because it's better case management, right? so i don't know how you explain us in the world at this point. >> well, joy, here's one explanation for why we're suffering, why we have excess mortality rates. the president likes to talk about excess mortality. the number of deaths we're seeing now versus a common year. what's that excess mortality? in our case, to your point, we've led the world in excess

mortality from covid-19 for many months during this pandemic. here's the reason why. it's fundamental and we use this phrase often, a lack of a federal response, but what does that actually mean? it means not misplaced priorities. joy, just this last week the fda approved remdesivir. we haven't talked nearly about this, but they proved the drug of which gilead sciences makes about $9 million in q3 alone without the most recent clinical trial from the w.h.o. which shows the drug is not effective. we had signs of that back in april, and yet due to taxpayer funding, $75 million at least into r & d on remdesivir since april, they decided to approve the drug. why not scale high-quality masking, joy? that's number one. why don't we have a high-quality masking initiative instead of putting more taxpayer money into a failed drug or weak drug at best back in april? so that's number one. why aren't we having testing in schools? there is testing happening in

affluent school districts across the country. saliva testing, for example. it should not be a situation of haves and have nots. but this combination of misplaced priorities, the lack of testing, lack of high-quality masking is but one reason. but a few reasons why we're entering a dangerous went and a really, really bad position. no leadership. not the right priorities. >> yeah. we are looking at a whole other year of dealing with this. joe biden called it an insult to everyone who has had covid or lost a family member, the way this administration is acting. i can't see the lie. up next, actor, producer and director robert de niro. stay with us. - [announcer] welcome to intelligent indoor grilling with the ninja foodi smart xl grill. just pick your protein, select your doneness,

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donald trump has always craved being in the company of celebrities, but he's found himself of them in his administration. the a listers have had nothing to do with him. the administration had to drop

their $300 million taxpayer funded plan for celebrities to record psas about how well trump has responded to the coronavirus, not because it would have been a waste of your taxpayer money, which it would have been, but because they couldn't land celebrities like they wanted. come tuesday, trump says he expects even those celebrities who have publicly criticized him, now no longer including rapper 50 cent, he expects they'll cast their votes for him anyway. >> i'll see them on television saying bad things. they'll say you know, that person voted for you. a large percentage of people voted for me. >> but they're afraid to say so. >> yeah, they don't want to lose their wealth. you know, they're very -- they're greedy people. they don't want to lose their wealth, so they'll talk one way but they're going to vote another way. >> joining me now is the great robert de niro, way more famous celebrity than donald trump.

mr. de niro, it's always a pleasure to talk with you. let me start with the last point donald trump made. 50 cent for a hot minute said he was going to vote for donald trump because of taxes. you know more a lot more famous people than donald trump does. 50 cent said he hates him. >> a shy trump voter in what since? >> being they're going to vote for him anyway because of the taxes issue even though they say they don't like him. >> i don't know who would vote for him. and i -- you know, people have their reasons, and i -- i can't -- i can't speak for them or pretend to understand the logic, the reasons. but everything that he has done to this point is so beyond anything that i ever thought would be possible to be done by him that i don't understand how

anybody, anybody, would say -- i cannot endorse this person. i can't. he's not helping anyone. >> yeah. >> and people who think that he's helping them are delusional. it's crazy. >> i mean, you've gone so far as to say you worry that another four years of trump would push the united states into fascism. do you still believe that? >> yes, absolutely. i just saw a documentary called "unfit" where a bunch of shrinks are talking about him. there was a thing with barry gold water that after that there was a law you couldn't analyze or diagnose someone if you had not interacted with them. but what they said was that we've seen enough of his behavior to get as much as we need to be able to make a diagnosis, a valid one. and when you go one on one with a patient doesn't mean you're going to get any honesty or as

much honesty as you would like. you see by his behavior what he's done. and you know, it's -- it's the same playbook which i've always been saying as mussolini, as hitler, as any autocrat dictator. they just -- it's classic. it's a classic, classic situation. so, if he gets elected for four more years, he'll try to go for a third term. and if he can get away with it, he'll want to be president for life. >> i think there would be a lot of concern about that. >> anything you can imagine. he will do. >> yeah. >> anything you can imagine, he will do. and now we know that. >> let me play for you. this is his son-in-law who has been cold blooded toward this pandemic and even toward his home state of new york has donald trump has been. here he is talking about what, in his mind, was the strategy in terms of the coronavirus. here he is. >> the last thing was kind of

doing the guidelines which was interesting. and that, in my mind, is almost like trump getting the country back from the doctors, right, in the sense that what he now did was he's going to open up. >> what is your reaction to that, the idea they're going to set -- >> i don't know. i saw that earlier. i just -- i don't know what logic these people are using. i just don't understand it. it's frightening. it's frightening because this kid is an important part of this administration. and he doesn't know -- he doesn't know anything. he's totally inept. he's crazy. not crazy. he's not -- trump is crazy. he's not. he's just inept. >> let's talk a little bit about -- a lot of people voted for donald trump. they voted for him because they thought he was a great business man. >> yeah. >> we've seen a lot of revelations showing he's not that. he's heavily in debt. we now know he got millions of

dollars that went into his propertys that he didn't pay taxes for and that he used his administration to charge the federal government and other governments for services. there's one club where he charged for water. he had a meeting with xi jinping of china, and he went ahead and charged $3 each for water. he finds every way to charge the u.s. you own a great hotel, so you can relate to somebody who is actually a successful hotel owner. what do you make of the ways in which he's used his position to take money from the rest of us? >> i think that what cohen has said -- i haven't read the book. but i think what he said is that he's a mobster. he acts like a mobster. that's true. he definitely does. more than i ever thought. i used to joke about it. i see it's real. he just has -- it's -- he has no

concern as we all see now about -- he's like -- it's like a gangster culture. he wants to be rape and pillage and plunder the country. he has no concept about what the right thing to do is in this country for the people of this country. >> yeah. >> there's just no concept. and i don't understand anybody who doesn't see that, how dangerous it is. at the end of the day, how dangerous it is. >> do you give us -- >> we're on the brink with this guy. >> you're -- >> it's that simple. >> yeah, absolutely. >> it's that simple. and that's why everybody's getting out there to vote because he doesn't -- he doesn't hide it. he says, i want to win. it's like if he doesn't win it's the end of his life. he's got to win at all costs. it's crazy. >> yeah. >> we find ourselves in this country. we represent so much to so many people around the world and let this guy ruin it. period. >> yeah.

robert de niro, you are great. thank you so much for being here, and i hope everyone will listen to you and get out there and vote. thank you so much as always. thank you. deep breaths. we are in the last leg of this race and the only thing left to do is vote. and please keep sending in those receipts, my voting mvps. tweet at me. we're almost there. "all in with chris hayes" starts now. tonight on "all in" the home ha allegory, hicks says from november 3rd, the president leaves his true believers out in the cold. >> just look at what happened last night in omaha. the longer he's in charge, the more reckless he gets. >> then fascinating new polling out of wisconsin, georgia and other key states. steve kornacki takes us through the state of the race. plus gretchen whitmer on battleground michigan and the president's attacks. and how