♪ so i owe you an explanation. "deadline: white house" hour two starts now. i promised you nicolle wallace. i'm disappointed too. she's having some issues getting to a camera in our studios. they just assumed i had nothing else going on this afternoon, they assumed correctly. what i have is ali velshi at the wall. and what i'm going to ask of ali velshi while we wait for nicolle to get in and seated in the studio, is a tour of the states that, as i was saying last hour,

people could not recite the states, the margins. if you could take us on places where the vote is open, places that could conceivably together add up or on their own add up to 270 for joe biden. >> let's do that. let's take a quick look at that march to 270. we don't have alaska and we won't have that for a while. the presumption is that that goes to donald trump. north carolina we won't have for a little while and a put that in trump's column for the moment. this is just an exercise. it doesn't mean that will happen. let's say that happened in georgia and now we're looking at nevada and arizona. at the moment joe biden has the lead in nevada and arizona. if that continues to be the case, there you have joe biden with 270. but we don't know. because we haven't gotten enough votes counted. so let's take those out of play.

in fact, take them all out of play and let's look at pennsylvania. if you put that into joe biden's column today, joe biden gets 273 and he wins pennsylvania. if you put it into donald trump's column today, donald trump gets 234. so donald trump has to get pennsylvania. then he's got to get georgia, then he's got to get north carolina. then he's got to get alaska. still doesn't have 268. he has to get nevada or arizona. so that is just the math. if you look at the paths to victory, let's just go back on this for a second and look at the paths to victory. as we stand right now with the uncalled states, joe biden has nine combinations that get him to 270 and donald trump has three. there is one combination that gets us to a tie and then it goes to the house of representatives. in a couple of states right now, i would say that because pennsylvania is as important as it is, all eyes are on it right now. we have 96% of the vote in. joe biden's lead is 14,541.

there is confusion about what remains out standing in pennsylvania. there are two buckets of votes not counted. the mail-in ballots are mostly counted. now i don't know what mostly means. i don't know if that means 15,000 or 50,000 left. i'm trying to get an answer. there are also provisional ballots and there are 85,000 of those left. if you got a mail-in ballot and he went to into vote and so you voted on a professional ballot and they have to match those up to make sure you didn't vote twice. that could take seven days. i'm looking for allegany county, we have 95% and we are expecting voted from there. right now in pittsburgh, joe biden has a 128,000 point lead but we're still waiting for a -- some few thousand votes to come in so i'm paying a lot of attention

to what is going on in pennsylvania. we're hoping to get some votes from nevada. that is just a slow counting issue. 92% are in. we need more from there. joe biden has a 20,000 point lead. but a lot of places where the votes are not counted right now are washoe county where reno is and clark county where las vegas is. we only have 86% of the vote in clark county and a few days from election day. and before i give it back to you, i'm going to just look at arizona because i know you're going to talk to somebody in arizona in just a moment. we have 94% of the vote in. what we're look for is the votes coming in from maricopa county, around phoenix, 93% of the vote in with joe biden having a 60,000 point lead there, in pima county, tucson joe biden has a 98,000 vote lead and 95% in and around flagstaff, joe biden has a smaller lead there, 17,000. but joe biden right now has a

40,000 point lead in arizona. arizona, nevada, georgia, north carolina, and pennsylvania all too close to call. we're not talking about alaska right now because they still have about half of their votes to count. brian. >> ali velshi at the big board while steve kornacki undergoes court mandated rest and nourishment period. thank you. and i'm told to a national sigh of relief palpable relief nicolle wallace has arrived at the studio. i've never been so happy to see you. >> thank you so much for pulling extra, extra shifts. we should pull back the curtain on what our lives are like. we don't know when this is going to end like all of america. but because of the dynamics of broadcasting in a time of a pandemic, we're all moving and staying socially distance. i was running up to take a test. anyway, such are the times in which we're covering the most

riveting presidential contest in resepts history. thank you so much for staying there. >> quite welcome. i'll be watching. >> very grateful. with no further ado, let's turn to mike memoli who is at biden campaign headquarters in wilmington, delaware. we've talked over and over again about this campaign stoicism and it is all three of those coming in handy on a day like today. >> well, yes, nicolle, with perhaps this exception. i think for a lot of the biden campaign team who have sort of kept that even keel temperament throughout week in what was a roller coaster of emotions through election day and beyond, the moment when pennsylvania showed joe biden ahead for the first time and within striking distance of that 270 votes, i think a lot of the campaign staff let themselves for the first time publicly get to the point where they were talking about him as the president-elect, where they were very reluctant to do so. as kelly o'donnell heard from a

source familiar with joe biden's thinking, he's very irish and very superstitious and weary of himself getting ahead of the result and that trickles down to his staff. so once we did see that moment, there was very quick movement on the part of the campaign to get ready for a victory speech tonight behind me. and then as the day went along, what are we seeing? the slow counts, the lack of projections on the part of news organizations. so for joe biden and you know this, the speech of a president-elect on election night or whenever it is certain is the beginning of governing as the end of a campaign and joe biden take this is very seriously. the opportunity and the burden of beginning what he has talked so much throughout the campaign about, the need to ubite the country, to lower the political temperature and to show that he would governor on behalf of all americans. so i think there is reluctance on the part of the biden team to

put the vice president out to give anything close to a celebratory speech and absent that he is the president-elect. and so much has changed quickly over time and we'll continue to monitor the goings on behind us for any signs that could dhafch. >> on trump side there is recognition that joe biden is the winner. there was acceptance that on january 20th he would be inaugurated. and there was some cautious optimism that joe biden not being the kind of person to deploy swagger and go out there ahead of the calls would -- and i know this is really hotly debated in democratic circles, but would serve him well, that it wouldn't give donald trump another applause line at whatever sort of antics he has up his sleeves for the coming days and weeks.

is joe biden driving all of the decision making about holding off on any sort of celebration until the network calls are made? >> i think he's absolutely setting the tone internally, at a time when a number of the staff, as i mentioned, were really for the first time letting themselves think of it as a victorious campaign. biden i'm told was very much relaxed but reflective and not necessarily ready himself to get to that place. and i have to remind or share a story about my own experience covering joe biden. >> please. >> it was four years ago on the eve of the election in fact, election eve, biden campaign with tim kane in northern virginia, it is meant to be a passing of the torch type moment. tim kane and joe biden, kane's remarks were the remarks of somebody thought to be elected vice president and then joe biden took the stage and he took something that stuck with me after the result and still to

this day and is relevant to this moment. he said god willing we're going to win this election but an awful lot of people are going to support at the time now president trump and we have to ask ourselves why. why was he able to appeal to a certain segment of the country and the need to speak to them. and that guided his thinking once hillary clinton lost and he considered running himself and it is very much his mindset as he looked forward to governing, because frankly the results, joe biden would have preferred a resounding victory, something to drive a stake in the heart of trumpism. but we're seeing not just historic turnout for joe biden who will receive more votes than any other candidate in american history, but strong turnout for donald trump who will get the second most votes for any presidential candidate in american history. so it is a very difficult road ahead for joe biden. but i think all indications are that he wants to manage this moment very, very carefully and that is i think what we see playing out tonight.

>> mike memoli, that is the exact conversation i want to have. could you stick around for a couple more minutes? >> i'll stick around a bit, nicolle. as long as the people in my ear tell me that is okay. >> so mike is going to stay with us. i want to bring into the conversation the host of msnbc politics nation and president of the national action net york, the rev al sharpton. also joining us political analyst claire mccaskill and jason johnson is back, journalist and professor at morgan state university, jason, i'm thinking of as mike memoli is talking about joe biden's dna. which is simply that he's always cognizant of the fact that even when you come out on top, millions and millions of people voted for curtain number two. you and i have already, wednesday i think, the days have all blurred into one, had this

conversation about how joe biden should position himself to achieve his own stated goal. which is not to governor the red or the blue states to be the president for all americans whether they voted for him or not. what do you think as joe biden is being deferential to the traditions and the practices. let me just assert this, too. if the shoe were on the other foot and the networks hadn't made the calls donald trump would be having the gaudiest victory celebration in the goldest gaudiest ballroom at mar-a-lago or some state owned property to be honest. so joe biden is reverting back to norms and traditions and i wonder what you make of it? >> yeah, i don't like it at all. and here is why. one, yes, if the situation were reed, donald trump would be doing donuts on the white house lawn right now. >> and we don't know that he's not to be fair.

>> right. that is true. that's true. he's built this wall around the building. and i'm not saying that we have to debase the white house or politics based on what we've seen from trump in the last four years, but i would like to think and maybe he's just doing this now until it is official, it is like, dude, you won. joe biden, you won. it is clear you won. everybody is being slightly cautious. you're ahead in every stingle state and by amounts that are very difficult for donald trump to overcome. you won more votes than anybody else and you flipped four possibly five red states, some states that haven't been democratic for a good 20 years, you have a mandate and act like it and part of having a mandate is saying, yes, i'm the president for everybody but it is my responsibility to represent the whims of the majority of the people who put me in office. which means, republicans and trumpists do need to be pushed aside. it does mean that you don't have to be deferential with mitch mcconnell who does nothing but obstruct things. so i'm not encouraged by joe biden wants to be so peaceful

and waste the first two years of his presidency, he needs to act like somebody who wan and push through his own agenda and anybody who stands in his way needs to be steam rolled. >> claire, i want to come to you and i want you to pick up on what mike memoli is reporting, what jason johnson is, i think voicing for a whole lot of people. i think that is the mood of the room. but you know joe biden. and just sort of try to thread all of those needles for us? >> listen, i saw today where the biden campaign put out a statement that said the government will usher out any trespassers. that is an indication that they are not going to put up with trump trying to co-opt this period of transition and i think he will be aggressive. now, here is the thing.

steam roller would be great. but we have this problem that we don't have the senate. so it is hard to steam roller when you got that kind of obstructionism. so you either have to try to figure out a way to get some things done that really matter to the american people, and if you can't, then you got to take your case to the american people and hopefully clean house in two years. but if you just come in and say it is my way, you've got this problem that we don't have 50 senators. so it is the practical part of this, the -- i'm just, i've been in the minority in the senate and i know what it feels like. i know how frustrating it is when mitch mcconnell gets to decide every single thing that is on the floor of the senate. he has no obligation to consider any of biden's legislation. so you could either decide that is going to be the new normal, or you get to try to figure out

a way to wiggle around it and pick off a few and get some stuff done that we care about. i kind of hope that happens. but if it doesn't, yeah, i agree with jason, he can't act like he didn't wayne, he won big. as trump would say, bigly. >> rev, this would not surprise you but it leaves me gobsmacked. you touch base with those in trump world and -- they are acknowledgment that donald trump may have done in harm to the country he leads with his off the wall remarks. last night -- not off the wall. they were strategic but complete fiction fantasy. but all of the conversations with sources on that trump side are about donald trump and donald trump's state of mind and donald trump's psyche and what donald trump needs. and this source said what donald trump is experiencing now is two things. it is rejection on a massive

scale, and it is sort of being cornered. there is nowhere to two. he lost, on january 20th there is no remedy for a sore loser. >> well, that is where donald trump's mind is, it is always only on donald trump. so clearly this is the first time i think his niece said it best, that he has nobody to bail him out. there is nobody that could come in and intercept for him, there is no foreign bank that will give him a loan when everybody else wouldn't. there is no way out this. but going to mike's point about joe biden, who i have known also for 30 years, i was against him on the crime bill and then we worked together very well for eight years under obama as leading the civil rights outside point of view. i think joe biden will behave the way mike said but agree he needs to clearly say i'm the

winner. but i won for the american people and we're going to do the things that we said. and i'm willing to work with others. but it is a -- to those that want to see things done in a humane and decent way. i think he's asked to take the reins of where we're going and because you can't heal and i believe from knowing him, he wants to be a healer. but you can't be a healer without dealing with it injured. and you have to address the fact that there are people that are injured in this country that now have a shot at being healed. you can't act like it injured and the injurers are the same thing. you have to distinguish it injured from the injured and the ones doing the injuries in order to bring a healing together. other wise, you're only confirming the injured. healing means somebody was hurt.

and those that were hurt by the pandemic, by other social grievances that we have, feel like we did not win something. and at the same time, you've got to do it in a way like i agree with claire, that you get some things done. but let's not like we're in the hospital on the same level. some of us were put in there because we were hit by a car that donald trump was driving. >> that is right. that is right. mike memoli, you may not know the answer to this and even if you do you might not want to say it on national television. do you know if there is any back channel. because someone like joe biden who served in the senate and counted friends like john mccain and when john mccain ran for president, his friendship what joe biden obviously didn't include any support for his presidential campaign but the friendship endured. and i wonder if joe biden has any back channels to the republican side during what donald trump made sure last night would be an incredibly

difficult and really confusing time for his supporters. >> reporter: nicolle, it is one of the threads i've been trying to report out already. is reaching out to republicans who i think he would be likely to be reaching out to himself at this point. at this point, i don't know that there is any outreach that either side frankly is willing to disclose at this point. but, i will say this, as somebody who was on the plane with joe biden every day during the 2008 campaign, once he was selected as the running mate it was a running joke about how he would preface every attack on john mccain with my good friend, my dear colleague. we at one point those in the traveling press brought a jen cardboard cutout on the press plane to underscore that point. >> let me give you the counter story because i was on the other plane. and we would say so here is what they're saying and he would say who said that and we would say, you're good friend joe biden. and he would sort of go like this.

so that is a conversation that happened on both campaign planes. >> reporter: but i wanted to add one other layer to i think the dynamic around whether biden speaks tonight and the moment that the campaign was envisioning and it is this. joe biden was the vice presidential nominee in 2008 and he was the sitting vice president in 2012. joining barack obama on celebratory election flight. joe biden did not speak on either of those nights. our reporting is that kamala harris was going to speak tonight and that is again a decision from joe biden. that is going to underscore not just joe biden's victory tonight but a historic moment for the country, the first woman and a woman of color being elected as vice president of the united states. and i think that is another factor to consider about whether or not to speak tonight ab sent a victory. i think they want to let that moment also get the attention and have the national attention that it deserves really and so we should consider that as well. >> i want to get you in on that,

jason johnson. that does seem like, you know, i know what you're articulating and a lot of people feel the way you do about going out there and acting like a winner but wanting to give kamala harris his moment is a pretty intentional and it would seem noble reason to wait. >> you know, it's -- america is late to the game. so it is really good that harris is out there. so many other places and the couldn't innocent of africa and europe and asia, go back to the marcos, every other country or part of the world has had a woman in this kind of position before and now finally the united states is catching up. senator harris has been qualified, senator harris went through a great campaign. has been a wonderful surrogate. senator harris is historic. and that is what i'm excited about and hearing her speak tonight, i really think this is going to be what we saw with trump and pence, that is the last time that i think any party runs a ticket of two straight

white guys. i don't think -- i think senator harris isn't just making history for herself, i don't think we'll see another ticket that does not have a woman or a black person, not somebody hispanic on the ticket. and she is that doorway. so i really hope she speaks to that. she's a fantastic role model for a lot of black women. we all know people would worked very hard on her campaign who i think will put through some great work. but i think senator harris is going to be so much more powerful as a vice president than maybe a lot of vice presidents we've seen over the last ten, 20 years because she'll have real policy and symbolic significance throughout this entire administration. >> important points, i'm glad we came back to you. mike memoli, thank you for sticking around and if you pick up anything else in the next 45 minutes hop back in front of a camera for us. when we come back, as donald trump watches his chance for a

second term slip away he's launching all sorts of fake allegations, big lies, conspiracy theories, not one of them grounded in reality and some republicans are starting to say enough is enough. that coverage is ahead as our special election coverage continues. i'm sorry, none of us have done much sleeping. but i promise we'll get through this. we're taking a short break. shok (upbeat music) - [narrator] this is kate.

she always wanted her smile to shine. now, she uses a capful of therabreath healthy smile oral rinse to give her the healthy, sparkly smile she always wanted. (crowd cheering) therabreath, it's a better mouthwash. at walmart, target and other fine stores. tbefore money, people atools, cattle, grain,

even shells represented value. then currency came along. they made it out of copper, gold, silver, wampum. soon people decided to put all that value into a piece of paper, then proceeded to wave goodbye to value, printing unlimited amounts of money as they passed the buck to the future. that's why it's time for digital currency and your investment in the grayscale funds. go digital. go grayscale.

i think what the president needs to do is frankly put his big boy pants on and acknowledge the fact that he lost and he nee needs to congratulate the winner and just as others did and stop this and let us move federal as a country. >> and on day four, talk of big boy pants. jim kenney calling on president trump to concede. but he won't do that.

right. instead the president is offering a stream of false tweets over the past few days and an outrageous beyond the pail address from the briefing room where he railed against mail-in ballots and made claims against a democratic election process itself. it was as a senior official told "the washington post," the kind of news conference they wanted to avoid. trump's advisers instead wanting him to focus on legal battles the campaign is waging as it stands now there are seven and more are expected to be filed. in addition the campaign is asking for a recount in wisconsin and in georgia. the secretary of state expects to conduct one. we're joined by white house reporter and msnbc political analyst phil rucker and msnbc contributor joyce vance. the rev and claire and jason are also with us. phil rucker, i'm told today that this is all about donald trump's

inability to accept the rejection and that these legal moves will not do anything to overturn a result that he simply can't stair in the eye yet. >> that sounds about right, nicolle. the legal moves don't have much legal basis to them. i guess joyce could explain that shortly. but this is all about the president. he's directing this strategy. he's telling his folks to go out there and argue and fight and try to reverse this and he's convincing himself somehow that fraud that doesn't exist actually does. it doesn't. there is no evident of it. and we should keep in mind donald trump's history here. he's never dealt with a loss of this magnitude and not have an escape hatch. when he was in business and when he went bankrupt, he could declare bankruptcy and pick up and move on and work on his brand. when he was under investigation

by the special council for obstruction of justice with regard to the russia investigation, he has bill barr as the attorney general to spin it to the public and escape the accountability when he was impeeped by the house he had republican senator to keep limb in office and acquit him and in this case there is no escape and he's grappling with this reality. i think the real test is when the results become more clear and news organizations start calling this race and joe biden earns that title president-elect and what does president trump have to say about it then. >> it is also clear from your body of reporting with carol lentic and ashley's great body of the reporting, that relevance is the oxygen for donald trump and that this defeat for him, you know, he never seemed to relish, let's face it, anything about leading or protecting or serving this country, the public service part of job didn't get

through to him. but he felt relevant. and i already heard rumblings about a lot of this grievance chapter being about maintaining his relevance, not even about overturning the result. >> yeah, that is such a smart point, nicolle. donald trump has loved being the president. and what that means is that he could issue a tweet and it becomes a cable news chyron and a breaking news alert within minutes. he relishes that. he relishes being on the front page of the newspaper every day and relishes the day when his name is in two, three, four, five different headlines on the front page of the "new york times" and when he is no longer president that is not the case any more. certainly he'll have a platform on twitter, certainly mr. will be people in this country, many millions possibly who listen to what he has to say and follow his every move but he's not going to be, if he loses this race, he's not the president and he's not going to have the kind of relevance that he has today.

>> joyce vance, i want to play you something that a republican senator from pennsylvania said this morning on the "today" show. this is senator pat toomey. >> i saw the president's speech last night and it was very hard to watch. the president's allegations of large scale fraud and theft of the election are just not substantiated. i'm not aware of any significant wrongdoing here. >> and that alarm is sort of the soundtrack of all of our lives these days. but i want to ask you about a republican senator saying out loud what even some trump folks will acknowledge not quite out loud or on tv yet, that the allegation of widespread voter fraud is false. there isn't widespread voter fraud. now if you put a microscope on every ballot cast in the whole country, you could find places where significaatures weren't - course you can. but donald trump is tens of

thousands of votes behind in all of the key states. there isn't a legal strategy that changes the result, is there? >> there really isn't. and look, if democrats were going to steal this election, they would have stolen a couple of senate seats along with the white house. so people should use their common sense and they should reject the fake scary stories about voter fraud that aren't backed up by evidence and none of them are backed up by evidence. the legal strategies are political narratives. this is, i think, president trump trying to talk to his base, trying to hold on to something, whether it is a sense of relevance or a following after he leaves the white house, or maybe a last gasp effort to convince people he should stay in power, it is a failed effort. that is clear at this point. republicans don't have to afraid of the president's tweets and i hope more of them will join the courageous senator of

pennsylvania. >> and there aren't enough because it is taken way too long to push back on this president. as i watched him speak last night i thought they are the reason we got to this point. but let me read a list of the folks who did push back to your point. mitt romney said the president is wrong to say the election was rigged, corrupt and stolen. former senator jeff fake said to republican should be okay with the president's statements. unacceptable. larry hogan, governor of maryland said there was no defense for the president's comments tonight upd mining our democratic process, america is counting the vote and we must respect the results as we have before. chris christie, his debate coach until he was hospitalized with covid that he got ott the white house. i talked tonight now not as a former governor but former u.s. attorney, there is no basis to make that argument tonight. and sean spicer of the dancing show thing, quote, i haven't seen any evident of it and again i don't think it helps his case. if he sees an instance in

pennsylvania or nevada in this particular tlipg happened, then call it out but saying voter fraud, you can't throw a term out like that without being specific. joyce, people call donald trump incoherent and crazy at their only peril. he wants to spend the next four years or eight describing him as an illegitimate president just as he saw to do it for the obama presidency. and until every elected republican and everyone is calling him out and pushing back, this will undoubtedly seep into the mind of trump supporters. >> that is exactly right. and look, i'm not going to be a member of the fan club of any of these senators. they have the opportunity to do the right thing during the senate impeachment trial, they refused to even hear the evidence against this president, the country might have been spared the long pandemic nightmare had we had different leadership in place.

but that is all in the past. and at this point i think we're entitled to expect a bear minimum of service from these senators and that bare minimum is speaking up to ensure that the american tradition of a peaceful transfer of power is honored as this presidency comes to a close. that is a bear minimum. that is the least that these people could deliver for folks in this country. >> claire, i want to give a quick last word because you're relationships on both sides of the aisle and we sat next to each other for much of impeachment where we in hindsight held out hope that someone would see what was clear to everyone and say something. do you hold out hope that more of your former republican colleagues in the senate will speak out now? >> nope. i am bitterly disappointed that more haven't spoken out today. this is outrageous and especially when you look at the bipartisan nature of the

battleground states being counted right now. you have a republican governor and a republican secretary of state in georgia. you've got a republican secretary of state in nevada. these are the people who administer elections. you've got a republican governor in arizona. he can't wait for the mail-in ballots to be counted in arizona but somehow they're totally fraudulent in pennsylvania. notion that united states senators can't state the obvious right now is sickening. it is sickening. because this is corrosive to our democracy. >> it is also very sad they were all afraid of the big bad mean tweets two trump's sons. thank you so much for spending some time with us today. claire and jason and the rev are sticking around. when we come back, as joe biden inches closer to the presidency, concerns are growing among top national security officials about what happens next and whether donald trump will ever respect the outcome of this election. former cia director john brennan

joins us next as we look at the votes coming out of georgia where joe biden's lead has grown ever so slightly. our coverage continues after a very quick break. don't go anywhere. before voltaren arthritis pain gel, my husband would have been on the sidelines. but not anymore! an alternative to pills voltaren is the first full prescription strength non-steroidal anti-inflammatory gel to target pain directly at the source for powerful arthritis pain relief. voltaren. the joy of movement. my job is to help new homeowners who have turned into their parents. i'm having a big lunch and then just a snack for dinner. so we're using a speakerphone in the store. is that a good idea?

one of the ways i do that is to get them out of the home. you're looking for a grout brush, this is -- garth, did he ask for your help? -no, no. -no. we all see it. we all see it. he has blue hair. -okay. -blue. progressive can't protect you from becoming your parents, but we can protect your home and auto when you bundle with us. -keep it coming. -you don't know him. when you bundle with us. let's get checked for those around us. let's get checked for a full range of conditions. introducing letsgetchecked a health testing you do at home. let's get round the clock support from a team of nurses. let's get fast, accurate results. know your health. know yourself. order now at letsgetchecked dot com

♪ sadly, it is a theory we've contemplated on this program many times before. what happens if joe biden is declared the winner and donald trump refuses to led the white house, refuses to recognize the results. well the biden campaign addressed that today and they didn't mince any words. saying this, quote, as we said on july 19th, the american people will decide this election and the united states government is perfectly capable of escorting trespassers out of the white house. donald trump has not committed to a peaceful transfer of power

and it is a concern shared even among members of his own national security team. t"the daily beast" writes with increasingly flaging efforts by trump to cast doubt, officials are preparing for how to handle a situation in which the race is officially called for joe biden and trump refuses to concede. if that happens, according to two officials familiar with the matter, one of the options would be to have the fbi or the department of homeland security make a public statement reaffirming the integrity of the results of the vote. officials said there is no such plan currently in place. but officials have discussed the possibility. joining us now, someone i wanted to talk to since tuesday night, former cia director and national security analyst john brennan and with us still the rev and claire and jason. first, your reaction to what would appear to be joe biden's inevitable victory here? >> well, i think joe biden has

demonstrated that he is ready to be president because he has been very presidential in terms of his poise, in terms of his patriotism and professionalism as we await the official results of the election. so i am very confident that joe biden is going to be inaugurated in january. but i am concerned about what may happen in the next ten weeks as donald trump refuses to recognize and acknowledge the will of the american people. >> and you know, that daily beast reporting reminds me of the video that chris wray and the fbi produced ahead of the election, for domestic audiences but i thought perhaps for international audience as well. affirming the integrity of u.s. elections. and that was one of the things that made donald trump so angry, he's now openly flirting with firing him. do you think this scenario where we once again say oh, the institutions will hold, the very ones that donald trump has really vandalized and ransacked, do you think it is up to the

phish and the department of homeland security to tell him, hey pal, you're trespassing, it is time to go. >> i think they will. they'll try to do that but i wouldn't be surprised if he decides to sack christopher wray and gina haspel at cia and that is why i do believe this is a very dangerous time because as your previous guests have said, donald trump is not used to losing at all. and he's going to do everything possible and he still retains the powers of presidency until noon on january 20th. and so he could do a lot of damage domestically as well as internationally before he is forced to leave office because he will no longer have the authority to order anybody around after january 20th. >> i wanted to ask you what this looks like. you have more sort of intimate and granular understanding of american allies and adversaries

and what do they see whether they see that spectacle last night, you wrote this after the briefing room, a place where wars are announced and ended and basically refused to accept the result of the election and conjured up a bizarre conspiracy between pollsters, news organizations, and democrats. you tweeted this, donald trump's fascism has never been more spark and his lying never more odious and his disdain for our democracy never more reprehensible. the most dishearting aspect of the election is that so many americans have been deceived by him or think like him. if trump does not concede and leave the white house, what technically will happen? can you say a little bit more about that? >> well, again, i am just very concerned that donald trump right now is thinking and talking with his advisers and his inner circle of people, to see what he can do to try to derail, what i think is the

inevitable inauguration of joe biden. and so it is up to people like william barr now, the attorney general who has demonstrated he's willing to be donald trump's personal lawyer to stand up and to refuse any type of direction that he may get. presidents have some emergency authorities that they could try to exercise. and i'm hoping that he's not going to resort to this of the things that could create havoc in the streets. but more concerning is is he going to fuel the animus of his base and encourage them to take matter news their oeb hands. that is something that i'm hoping and praying is not going to happen. but donald trump seems to only be concerned about himself and not about the country. he has no respect for the law, no respect for the office of the presidency. he only wants to do what is going to benefit donald trump. >> you know what, i thought about people who have served in national security agencies at the highest levels like yourself, when i watch that speech last night and what it

revealed to me is that he obviously has no relationships with anyone in a national security role because no american national security official with a voice and a spine and a brain would let an american president go out and say those things. so what do you think the fact that he walked into the white house briefing room and said what he said, says about just the state of detachment of the american president, the commander-in-chief as you said until someone else is inaugurated, from his own national security apparatus. >> as you pointed out, people need to have a spine to stand up to him and think there are too few people in the republican party these days who have that spine and intestinal fortitude and the love of country they need in order to push back against somebody who clearly has these fascist tendencies and trampling the tenents of our democracy and the people in the white house, the mark meadows and others who need to stop what mr. trump is doing, of course he could call for recounts. that is a legitimate request.

but to continue to claim fraud and wide scale fraud about these dedicated election officials, this is something that goes way beyond the pail and as claire said, the fact that republican senators in congress are not senators in congress are not speaking out loudly and continuously against donald trump is outrageous. >> claire, your name was involved. i'll give you the last word here. what do you think the folks who still wake up every day and go to analyst jobs at the cia or working in field offices all over the country for the fbi, what do you think they think about the fact that donald trump may very well have made things much more dangerous for people who could be caught in something that turns violent, could be targeted by groups that are angry and agitated who genuinely believe what donald trump is saying, that the result is a fraudulent one? >> here is the thing. this is the moment the international community as i'm

sure director brennan will be watching, the peaceful transfer of power. the analysts and people need to remember that most of the intelligence community is made up of veterans. there is a lot of veterans. he likes to talk about the military and how he's on their side. these analysts, they watch the acting former acting director of dni roll up in a black van yesterday, get out and give some bogus press conference claiming some massive fraud in nevada with absolutely no evidence. that has to be heartbreaking to people who have dedicated their lives to keeping us safe. >> director brennan, great to see you today. thank you for spending time with us. jason staying put. when we come back, our good friend jon meacham joins the conversation as we await, the country awaits a historic moment. our coverage continues after a quick break. ment our coverage continues after a quick break. (♪ )

keeping your oysters growing while keeping your business growing has you swamped. (♪ ) you need to hire i need indeed indeed you do. the moment you sponsor a job on indeed you get a shortlist of quality candidates from a resume data base so you can start hiring right away. claim your seventy-five-dollar credit when you post your first job at indeed.com/promo

she always wanted her smile to shine. now, she uses a capful of therabreath healthy smile oral rinse to give her the healthy, sparkly smile she always wanted. (crowd cheering) therabreath, it's a better mouthwash. at walmart, target and other fine stores. >> 2000 election was one of the most contentious in american history and it ended with the honor and grace on the part of al gore. joining us now, presidential historian and msnbc contributor jon meacham, rev al sharpton still here. jon meacham, i'm told we should not expect any graceful concession speech from donald trump but i know when john mccain had to give one, it was

viewed by him as the most important speech of his life. why do they matter so much? >> yeah, well, how we handle defeat tells us as much about our character if not more so about how we handle victory. haven't we been taught that from the school yard forward? in terms of the country, the question is can we disagree but respect the institutions, respect the outcome of even quite closely fought races, and most presidential elections, i keep under scoring this, this number, the numbers we're seeing are fully within the main stream of where most presidential elections have been since harry truman won in 1948, and biden's popular vote percentage is probably going to be higher. there is also something totally fitting to the trump presidency that a man who came in to tear

down the norms to blow out the buoys of our politics and our civic life that he would go out doing exactly that. >> do you agree with this notion that you -- the first things a president elect does send a lot of important signals. they are deb ldeliberate. joe biden is making the decision for restraint and not getting ahead of network calls. the calls for patience, mike reported that kamala harris will also speak whenever they're able to go out and make an official and celebrate. what do you read from the joe biden also had a covid briefing this week, that makes it one more covid briefing than the president. what do you make from the moves he's made since tuesday night? >> yeah, well, it's another old piece of home wisdom. we talked about learning from defeat, learning in victory and

started out the way you intend to carry on. it an old insight into human behavior, a good precept. biden is in many ways a creature of the normalcy and that may have downsides going forward but lord, right now he looks like cisro, we gave the right wing something to play with, early merry christmas. >> they are very busy with donald trump's lies about voter fraud. >> that's true. may not make the cut today. it a matter of comparison, right? >> yeah. >> i think vice president biden is incredibly careful about this stuff. he's a student of it. you know, it in his dna to reflect the best of these traditions. >> you know, rev, i wanted to sort of hear you out on this

theory. donald trump and conservative media really never figured out how to take joe biden on. they never really succeeded in turning him into a villain the way they have so many others. they made a good run at his son, but they never managed to do to him the way they did so many others and why do you think that is and does it last? >> i think it didn't work because joe biden was something they really were not used to fighting because they had tried to project that donald trump every man in pennsylvania, kentucky and delaware and joe biden was really more every man than they were and how do you really put a handle on somebody without offending the people you claim to speak for and he's more like them than you are. he couldn't get that in his head because donald trump doesn't know mr. every man.

he's never been that. he's never been rejected, which is why he's dealing with this rejection badly now. he's never been the kind of regular guy that comes. if you look at the people at his rallies, they are culturally closer to joe biden than donald trump and how do you attack biden without making them feel like you're attacking them. it was something they could never figure out and i believe that's the reason why. >> jon meacham, the rev al sharpton, claire, four of the wisest people i know. thank you for spending time with us and thank you for spending the hour with us. i'm sorry i was late for school. it won't happen again. ari melber picks up coverage now. hi. >> hi, nicole, i've been enjoying your coverage and we'll keep going. thank you so much. >> that's great. >> i want to send a good evening to everyone around the