we're back with msnbc's continuing election coverage. i'm lawrence o'donnell, and in an homage to steve kornacki i have not changed my necktie since tuesday night. here's changed my necktie since tuesday night. here's joe biden in delaware. >> i want you to know, i'll work as hard for those who voted against me as i will very those who voted for me. that's the job. it's called the duty of care for all americans. >> joining us now, shannon, we see tonight the biden eloquence in a moment where the country needs to hear something from the presidential candidates. and it's balanced by silence from donald trump. what is happening in the trump white house? >> a lot of silence today.

not only did we not see the president yesterday, like we did yesterday. we heard from him on twitter sporadically, but silence from his campaign and allies. a lot of folks in the white house, yesterday, held a call in the morning, they were defiant about a path to victory, talking about picking up votes in pennsylvania, some ballots in arizona, how they thought georgia would be a recount. so yesterday still talking about a path they saw to victory. there was none of that today. yesterday, multiple press conferences by corey lewandow i lewandowski, and other trump allies talking about the voter fraud issue. there was none of that today. when i talked to people privately, there seemed to be a sense and recognition particularly among campaign veterans that the numbers aren't

going to turn their way, in the level they need them to. maybe here or there, around the margins. but now everything will turn to the legal fight, and every hope they have left is going to be by something happening in the courts. and i said, what is the vote changing action that will happen in the courts? a lot of them said, i'm not a lawyer, i'm not on the legal team. they don't have a clear path for how this gets to 270 in the courts, rather than some unknown event happening, and things breaking the president's way. >> we'll talk about the legal possibilities later this hour. the short version of it is, it's absolutely hopeless. there is no possible way for the trump side to change any voting outcome in any state through any court action. and it counters an image that

was created somewhere in trump world that there was this army of republican lawyers that would descend everywhere that donald trump may be in trouble, in any significant way, and it turns out to have been a complete mirage. and by the time you get to this week, jared kushner is rushing around looking for his so-called jim baker. >> not only that. but fund-raising heavily for a legal defense fund to pay for their legal challenges. so, you know, you would think maybe people could come volunteer their time if their passionate about this. but i got text after text and email after email from the campaign trying to get money from donors to pay for a legal battle. there are some lawyers who sort of come to the surface, i heard john sweeney's name mentioned,

from the florida bush v. gore, but i'm not even sure what role he will be playing. jay sekulow, but i'm told that is just for the pennsylvania case. there's no general, no person overseeing a broad legal strategy. david bossi has been doing that to some extent, but he's not one of these big-name election lawyer strategists who has done this big, multi-state event. and there are diehard lawyers out there who were volunteering. i was talking to one who has been volunteering their time, but that won't get them over the finish line. >> shannon, thank you very much for joining us tonight.

>> thank you. >> and we turn now to jonathan and zerlina, both are msnbc political analysts. zerlina, we once again are turning a calendar day without a call by the networks, without joe biden being able to take that stage tonight outdoors where he thought he would be able to take that stage and make his claim on this presidency. that may now be another day away, or we're not sure. >> well, it looks like it's just another day away. but i think that, you know, as the votes are counted and it's important for everybody to understand that that's what we do here in america, we count people's votes. americans' votes, until the end. so whoever comes out on top will be the winner, lawrence.

but i remember so vividly election night in 2016, sort of, as it sunk in that we weren't going to come out on top, at that moment, there were still votes being counted. so this is a very different situation. and i think it's clear that the biden campaign is pivoting towards a governing strategy. he talked about his covid-19 plan, which i was very curious to hear, because i would like america to have a plan for covid-19, since we're in the middle of a spike. and also, you know, the places that still have votes to count are looking favorable for joe biden. i think it's clear that while 70 million people voted to re-elect donald trump after the last four years, and the pandemic response, there were even more people who showed up overwhelmingly to repudiate donald trump, and i think the message seems a little bit delayed, if all of these votes had come in on tuesday, we would

have said joe biden had a mandate, but instead, tonight he said it himself. >> tonight, he delivered a shorter speech, indoors, in a less dramatic speech than they were planning. but he gave a quick summary saying he's absolutely going to win the battleground states and the electoral college. but also about the need for economic recovery during this pandemic. let's listen to that part of what joe biden had to say. >> senator harris and i heard yesterday about how the recovery is slowing because of the failure to get the pandemic under control. more than 20 million people are on unemployment. millions are worried about making rent. and putting food on the table.

our economic plan will put a focus on a path to a strong recovery. >> jonathan, donald trump must have been surprised watching joe biden say that, since donald trump told us that nobody would be talking about coronavirus after election day. >> biden is almost in fact already president. and the vietnamese say, the mandate of heaven has changed. you can almost see everything moving in his direction, you can almost see and feel the power seeping out of the trump blimp. he has checkmated trump in this election. the election is over for all intents and purposes. now he can get on with confronting a genuine economic crisis. as well as a health care crisis. when we look at history, franklin roosevelt, there was a

much longer transition in the horrible winter of 1932/'33, and the banks started closing when he was president-elect. when barack obama was elected in 2008, when he was president-elect, the auto companies started to collapse. joe biden is faced with almost a comparable situation, if there is not a covid relief package coming soon, we could really hit the skids here as the pandemic accelerates. >> and twith the cover of your book about jimmy carter over your shoulder, i want to talk to you about the transition of a president who loses his re-election to a challenger, that administration going into transition with the incoming administration. you have written about that. you've studied it.

tell us how it worked in the carter to reagan transition, and what you expect this time. >> not only did jimmy carter work on behalf of the american people, to in that case free the hostages after he was defeated in 1980, he was clesleeping on couch of the oval office the night before the inauguration, working so hard to get the hostages out. and he completed the deal. of course, the iranians, they didn't release the hostages until a minute after reagan took the oath. but it's interesting, in his inaugural address, reagan paid tribute to the peaceful transfer of power, and to jimmy carter for carrying that out. even though they had kind of a

chilly conversation, riding together up pennsylvania avenue, they did go through those rituals. and i don't expect that donald trump will do that. i don't expect that he will show up for joe biden's inauguration. his contempt for our democratic traditions and ideals is so deep, and his humiliation now in this election is so hard on a very insecure man, i don't believe he has it in him to do the right thing. i predict he will long since, you know, have fled to ma mar-a-lago and will sulk there. >> i've been saying for a long time, i've expected donald trump when the electoral college votes come in, just to go to mar-a-lago for thanksgiving and never come back. never go to the inauguration, of course. and he can pardon himself on the golf course in mar-a-lago. he does not have to be in

washington washingt washington to pardon himself. >> i guess that sounds like a pretty good plan if you're donald trump. i don't anticipate that he will go through any of the rituals. because he doesn't have grace. he's never been gracious to anyone, he's never exhibited that quality for the last four years or even before that. but i do think it's important for the rest of us, the ones who voted in this election, even if you didn't vote for joe biden, to be a part of this peaceful transfer of power. part of it is acknowledging other citizens in this country voted for someone else. the last four years, there were a lot of folks on the left who called themselves the resistance, in part due to the fascist tendencies of the president and some of his more authoritarian impulses that are being borne to this very second.

it would be smart for us to unite post-election, after we all maybe get some sleep once this is all said and done, we can move on as a more united country. one of the things that has been missing in this country for four years, kindness, compassion, empathy. we need those things to connect to one another, it's been devoid in our leadership, and i feel like it's impacting our everyday people. i feel like people are meaner to each other than before the trump era, and i want us to get back to a place where we respect each other. >> i'm not a fan of much political speechmaking, since i've been exposed to thousands of them. however, some of the truly greatest and most beautiful and most noble political speeches

i've ever heard are the concession speeches of losing candidates. the form itself has nobility in it, before you even open your mouth. and this is something of course that donald trump could never, ever comprehend. you ask any dramatist, would you rather write a victory speech or concession speech? ask any actor, and donald trump could never imagine why anyone would ever want to be or choose to deliver the concession speech that is generous, the concession speech that is unifying, the concession speech that steps out of the individual and speaks to something larger. >> lawrence -- >> no, he's never -- >> okay, jonathan, go ahead, quickly. >> so, you know, abraham lincoln said that stevenson in his concession speech quoted lincoln

saying, you know, i feel like a little boy who stubbed his toe in the dark. i'm too old to cry, but it hurts too much to laugh. and this is an example of what you're talking about. we saw al gore give a really gracious concession speech after that long struggle in 2000. john mccain, giving a gracious concession speech in 2008. we know we're not going to get it. but what we are going to get, is what joe biden started tonight and will continue in his speeches to come. that's that we're one country, and we're moving beyond red and blue to red, white, and blue. if he can inhabit that unifying message, he's going to have a real head start on a successful presidency and healing of the american people. >> zerlina, thank you for joining us tonight.

and thank you for your contributions to our discussions of this political campaign all the way through. we've always appreciated it. jonathan, thank you for your invaluable historical perspective. we really appreciate it. georgia is turning out for joe biden, especially in john lewis' congressional district. the woman who won john lewis' seat in congress this week will join us, next. ♪ since pioneering the suv in 1935, the chevy suburban has carried many things. nothing more important than family. introducing the most versatile and advanced chevy suburban and tahoe ever.

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the work that has been done over the last ten years, the work that has been led by people like stacey abrams to register voters, to expand voting rights in this state, we're now seeing that change has come to georgia. and georgia is the heart of the change that is coming to america. >> that was georgia democratic

senate candidate jon ossoff on friday. he's in a runoff campaign for one of the senate seats that will be decided on december 5th. and raphael warnock will be the other one. and joe biden has a 4,430-vote lead currently in georgia. join us now, katie beck. is the counting continuing overnight? >> reporter: yes, even at this wee hour of the morning, votes are still being counted in georgia. what is left is the military and overseas ballots, and provisional ballots. that is what is taking up most of the time at this point. we were told earlier that the

military ballots could be up to 8,400 votes, and 14,000 provisional ballots. but this could go into early next week, we're told by officials. that's because the provisional ballots take time to verify. there is a research process that goes into them to make sure they can be counted. and at this point, we know there are still outstanding votes to be counted, and it could take some time. but the exact number of votes, we're not sure. we just know the numbers keep coming in, and keep favoring increasing joe biden's lead, 4,400 votes now separating them. it's a razor-thin margin, and the secretary of state indicated there will almost certainly be a recount in georgia.

and the two senate races will go to a runoff, that could potentially determine the power of is senathe senate. and the secretary of state's office says so far they feel this process has gone shomoothl. they expected it to take several days, but they're taking time and being very careful and deliberate, because they want to get it right and make sure everything is accurate and fraud-free, and at this point, they feel very good about that. we expect more to be done this weekend, and we expect the total will increase . in terms of when it will be over, we may not have a final total until next week, and three weeks after that, the expected end of the recount. >> katie, thank you very much. >> thank you.

and joining us now, nakima williams, congresswoman-elect in georgia's fifth congressional district, the seat of the late congressman john lewis. thank you for joining us, and congratulations on your win this week. what do you think is the vote count expectation in georgia? do you have a view of the way the returns are coming in that tells you how well joe biden is going to do? will he hang on to this lead? >> thank you so much for having me, lawrence, bright and early in the morning, middle of the night. but just looking at the votes that are coming in, every vote dump that comes in gives joe biden a few more votes here in georgia. we said from the beginning, we were a battleground state. and in true battleground fashion, it's coming down to the

wire with razor-thin margin. but i firmly believe in counting every vote, and that joe biden will flip the state of georgia for the first time since 1992 with bill clinton, and we'll deliver the presidency in the south. >> as chair of the democratic party in georgia, you've been telling us, stacey abrams have been telling us, jon ossoff has been telling us, the national media, pay attention to georgia. it's not a red state forever. we're on the move, it's changing, it's changing. could you possibly have been more vindicated in what you've seen in these returns? >> the returns have given me so much joy. especially watching in the middle of if night last night, when the fifth congressional district that i now represent, delivering the votes that

finally pufina finally put joe biden in the positive in this race, it was a joyous occasion. we've been saying we're a battleground state, and i'm happy that the rest of the country is finally catching up. >> let's listen to what kamala harris says, because it sounds so much like an echo of john lewis. >> your vote is your voice. and your voice is your power. and don't let anyone ever take your power from you. >> and that was her last speech as a candidate for vice president and there she was, reaching for the john lewis message. >> lawrence, if anyone ever thought their vote did not matter, look how close the election is in georgia, where we're dumping 24 votes at a time into the vote totals. this is going to be such a close

election here, and every vote truly does count. i was arrested in 2018 after the gubernatorial election, protesting, demanding that every vote be counted. we take this serious in georgia, and we're going to do it in the legacy of congressman john lewis. >> what does it mean to you to be taking the seat in congress, occupied by the honorable john lewis? >> i don't take this lightly. and i understand the obligation that i have to make sure that i am continuing to live up to his legacy, to push us forward, to make sure we're not just fighting for what he fought for, but moving us further along in our agenda, so that we have voting rights that are equalized across the country. i'm looking at things in some of the states we're seeing. and if we have same-day voter registration in one part of the state, it should be the same way across the board.

i'm looking to take john lewis' legacy even further. >> thank you so enough for joining us tonight. congratulations on your win. >> thank you, lawrence. >> thank you. up next, the challengeschald they're very big challenges, that the trump campaign is facing in trying to convince anyone of the validity of their legal challenges of this election. that's next. priceline works with top hotels, to save you up to 60%. these are all great. and when you get a big deal... ♪ ...you feel like a big deal. ♪ priceline. every trip is a big deal. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

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here's pennsylvania's lieutenant governor, john fetterman, tonight. >> trump's legal strategy is very sad and desperate. it would be like putting a carton of sour milk in the refrigerator and checking back to see if it's getting any

fresher. math is math, and it's going to come to a conclusion soon, and it's going to be result that i suspect the president is not going to like. and i would encourage him to embrace what is coming. >> oh, i wish they had kept the camera on joy reid so we could see her full reaction to that line. joini what is the latest situation on the lawsuit front in pennsylvania? >> republicans have filed seven different legal challenges in this state, at least four are still active. president trump has made it clear he wants the supreme court to get involved here. so far, they have not done that. the biggest issue has to do with that three-day extension for counting ballots that were postmarked by election day. today, republicans asked the supreme court to immediately stop the count of those ballots

and enforce and require counties to segregate those ballots from other ballots. justice alito told counties to segregate the mail-in ballots that arrived during that three-day grace period. most counties if not all of them in pennsylvania have already been keeping them segregated, and counting them separately from the other mail-in ballots. state officials say there aren't a ton of them, we're likely talking hundreds, maybe thousands. certainly not tens of thousands, in terms of the overall count here. we're told by the secretary of state that almost all of the mail-in ballots have now been counted. they started counting provisional ballots this morning. there are about 100,000 provisional ballots, and it takes time to count them.

provisional ballots happen when there has been a mistake or some issue. say you requested a mail-in ballot, and lost it, then they gave you one if you don't have your mail-in one to turn in. say you got married, and your last name changed but it wasn't updated. that can lead to you getting a provisional ballot. in this state, officials need to verify that the voter cast their ballot in the precinct where they were eligibilile to vote. >> and the judge's order, he was really just supporting what the pennsylvania secretary of state

had already told the counties to do. make sure you hold the ballots separately in case there has to be any litigation over them. >> right. he told them to do that. and as far as we know, every single county is doing that. there may be one or two exceptions, but not any that i'm aware of. it's something the secretary of state told the counties to do, and as far as we know, most if not all of the counties have been doing it. as far as what changes from the order, it's not entirely clear. >> thank you very much for that, we really appreciate it. now, let's turn to guy charles, an election law analyst for msnbc. professor charles, i'm almost embarrassed to ask you to comment on this litigation status, the status of any of

this litigation, since it is so minor and trivial in so many cases. now we know mathematically, the only case that has even captured the slightest attention of the courts, those ballots cast in the -- that are going to be counted, arriving three days after election day, being postmarked by election day in pennsylvania. that number is simply never going to amount to something that will change the outcome. but, please, professor, tell us where we are on this litigation tonight. >> lawrence, i'm almost embarrassed equality to comment on this litigation. there is no litigation strategy because losing is not a constitutional violation. it is simply the counting of ballots and a normal part of the democratic process. even in this case, it's not clear it's a strong case on the merits. we already know it's not going to make a difference in the

outcome, but it's also not clear that it is a strong case on the merits. it is the best hypothetical possible case that there could be, and even then it won't make a difference in the outcome. so what you are seeing is the president's legal team attempting as best as they can to try and hunt for places across the country, across the battleground states, and to see if they can find some legal relief that they can come back to the public and to say, see, there is a problem. there is a judge that agrees with us. please stop the counting. and of course none of that has happened, because this election, even though it has taken place in the middle of a pandemic, has been one of the best-run elections that we've had in american history. and so it's been taking place under the shadow of litigation. in part because of the threats the president himself has made. so the states and election administration officials who

have been working really hard have also been very careful in assuring that voters' rights are deeply protected. they've been sued, threatened to be sued. so they've been very careful. there are very few things to complain about. this is not a legal strategy, it's a fruitless process, as we can see. >> professor, would it be fair for me to say that in fact the president's team of lawyers is doing the very best they could possibly do, and that no other team of lawyers could do any better job because they're in search of election law violations that as far as we can see do not exist? >> that is correct. the president's team of lawyers, and as you all have reported, the president's also unhappy with his lawyers, and he doesn't believe he's getting the best legal representation. but unfortunately, one can't

manufacture legal claims. there actually have to be facts, there has to be evidence. and with every court, this is one of the most interesting things we're seeing, lots of courts that are viewing these violations are asking for evidence. and they're not seeing the evidence. and there's nothing that the lawyers can do. in some respects, we may even feel sorry for the lawyers, because they seem to be on a quest by their clients. but it is a fruitless one. >> when i was working in the senate, the democrats were constantly fending off republican attempts to limit your right to sue, your right to litigate, because republicans were on a crusade against what they constantly called frivolous litigation. and here we have the most frivolous litigator in american history in the white house, donald trump. and so that is what has brought

us to this discussion tonight. he's chasing things that no other president in history ever would have chased with election lawyers. >> that's exactly right. and part of the other part about it that makes it a little bit tragic, it's one thing to engage in frivolous litigation. it's another to engage in frivolous litigation in the context of one of the rights we take to be most fretreasured, t right to vote. making it harder, limiting the ability of individuals to participate in our democratic process. something the court has called the central and fundamental right. so the frivolous litigation is itself bad, but to do it in this particular context is something that history, i think, will judge this president harshly

for, among some other things. >> professor charles, thank you very much for settling this case for us tonight. really appreciate it. >> it's a pleasure. thank you, lawrence. up next, we'll go to arizona, where joe biden is holding a lead over donald trump. trump. ♪ aging is a journey. you can't always know what's ahead. since 1995, seniors have opened their doors to right at home for personalized care.

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democrat has won the state in a presidential election since bill clinton in 1996. joining us now, morgan cheskey. what are we expecting over the weekend? >> reporter: lawrence, good evening. certainly going to be a tight race in arizona. that's one of the reasons that has drown so many people into this parking lot. this area was filled with thousands of people earlier today. just a few people left, after different factions got into shouting matches throughout the k day. but for the most part, the peace was kept. and that's a good thing, because just beyond these walls, the counting of the ballots has been happening. the big drop came in at about 7:00 p.m. local time, the results of 70,000 votes,

resulting in the 29,861-vote separation between president trump and joe biden, about 54%. president trump received about 54% of those votes. we're going to see another big ballot drop tomorrow morning at 9:00 a.m. local time. about 70,000 votes here in maricopa county, and the number that president trump needs is about 60% of those about 70,000 votes. in addition to that, there are 15,000 provisional ballots that still need to be counted, and 5,000 ballots that still need to be signature verified. so those numbers are still going to trickle in. but the lion's share of the votes coming in tomorrow morning in maricopa county. all eyes will go on that, because as maricopa county goes, so goes arizona. and i got a chance to peek in to

this building, and there's bipartisan adjudicators here. let's say you have a ballot, and you put an "x" on the bubble instead of filling it in. the machine kicks it back out, it arrives at the bipartisan adjudicators' table, both a republican and a democrat, they look at the ballot and see if it will be accepted or not. very much a bipartisan effort happening here, all under the watchful eyes of observers. certainly a level of distrust in the crowd, saying count every vote, count every legal vote. we want to make sure this is as transparent as possible, many people echoing the president's words, saying this election will be stolen from them. others saying as long as they

can be shown that it was a legal election, they will make peace with joe biden being their president. obviously the large majority of people here are supporters of president trump. they said they'll be back tomorrow, and it will likely remain a tight race. that's why i think all eyes go to this release of those 70,000 votes tomorrow morning at the hopeful closure, one way or the other, on this tight arizona race. lawrence? >> morgan, let's go back to those bipartisan adjudicators. do they have to agree for the ballot to be accepted? what if they disagree? what happens to that ballot? >> reporter: when i spoke to the official here, he said they have to come up with a joint agreement. they had to be on the same page, literally, to make sure that that ballot is accepted. it could range from an "x" going over the bubble, to someone

missing a line filling some of it out. anything like that, any irregularity will prompt the machine to kick the ballot back out, to where they would have to have a human eye look at it and come up with that joint decision. that's just one of the kind of levels in place to make sure that this is a fair election for both sides. lawrence? >> and i've been struck by the number of people who have shown up there to be heard. i've been watching whatever video we have of it, and it does seem like a peaceful crowd. i know alex jones was there the other night, and i heard him yelling into a bullhorn about bill gates and the king of england. and so there's a kind of, from the distance that i'm watching it, there's a certain kind of harmless quality to it. there's a sense that it could be

intimidating for the workers, especially when they're leaving at night and going to their cars. what is your overall assessment of the way this group of people collecting there, as they will always collect for tv cameras, by the way, almost wherever we put tv cameras, what is the feeling in it as we've moved from day to day, from night to night? >> reporter: that's a great question. i think it's been equal parts unease with how this election has gone, at least from what they've told me. but also curiosity, and wanting to make sure this is in fact a legal counting process. we've asked for evidence to prove to the contrary, but the sheer fact that arizona is in play is one of the reasons that brought so many people out here. this is where it's happening. you mentioned the safety of the workers inside. i did ask specifically about that. i was saying i've been hearing

that everyone had to be escorted to their vehicles out of concerns for their safety. he said there were some people who had come and said they would feel more comfortable being escorted to their cars. no actual threats against the workers here. so that's encouraging. as far as the general mood for the crowd, i think it's just the realization that, you know, their vote, or the fear, rather, that their vote may not matter rather than the realization that arizona could be turning blue for the first time in decades. lawrence? >> and as we go forward, what is your sense of the timetable in arizona for completing this work? >> i'm told that at 9:00 a.m. local time, mountain time, that's when we should expect the results of the other batch of 70,000 votes. that's what we saw at 7:00 p.m. this evening. at that point for maricopa

county, that will be the majority of those votes. after tomorrow morning at 9:00 a.m., there are still ballots elsewhere in the state of arizona. but maricopa is being really viewed as the key here as to which way this whole state will go. and at least one thing that both sides can agree on, lawrence, they just want some closure. that's why i think there will be a lot of people up bright and early tomorrow, likely back out here, to see which way the numbers fall, come 9:00 a.m. mountain time. >> joe biden tonight, in his short speech in delaware, said that he's winning arizona. said, i'll be the first one to win it, democrat to win it, since 1996. so the biden campaign, from what they're looking at, at this stage, they have complete confidence.

>> they absolutely do. and i think that if you look at the numbers, again, let's go back to the gap. 29,861 votes separating president trump from joe biden in arizona, that percentage that president trump has to hit, 60%, he has not hit that number in the earlier drops of ballots that have come in so far. when the last big batch comes in, the president will have to receive the highest percentage he's received so far in the state, and that is -- we'll see how it plays out. really, and so that will be the magic number, i think, that both sides will be very closely watching. lawrence? >> morgan cheskey in phoenix, thank you very much. really appreciate it. >> thank you. stay with msnbc for coverage of this continuing count of the votes in this presidential

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good evening once again. day 1387. >> former vice president joe biden is on the verge of reaching that goal. that much we can say. by our count biden still has 253 electoral votes. donald trump with 214. that means the former vice president just 17 shy of the magic number of 270, that means that the went electoral votes in pennsylvania, to name one commonwealth, would do it. if you were watching, you know