being with us today. i know it's been quite a week for you. what can you tell us? what's going on in allegheny county right now? >> it's going in the right direction. allegheny county outperformed four years ago by about 40 to 50,000 votes. hillary clinton won it by 108,000, looks like joe biden will win by around 150,000. even in the counties surrounding us, the rural counties, he ticked it up just a little bit, he cut of margin to a half a point to a point and a half he also did a lot better in eerie county, lucerne. provisionalis will run a little less. >> when they are coming in? what's the timeline? >> it a little slower as we get later on. these are ballots that really

need to be checked by hand. they got to go through the process. i'm hoping we can put in another 5,000 to 10,000 by mid afternoon. >> rich, you were talking about provisional ballots. the networks and the newspapers, they feel like, i mean, you look at all the data. seems like everybody knows biden is going to end up winning the state of pennsylvania, but right now they're claiming to be frozen by the provisional ballots. but you say based on where the information you have, where the votes are coming from, you think the provisional ballots in allegheny county are going to break 75/25 approximately biden to trump? >> yes, because these were voters who wanted to vote by mail, maybe it never came in the mail, maybe they lost it. they came into their polling place without their mail-in ballot and the only way they could vote at that point was

provisional. most of those folks were democrats who wanted to vote be mail and somehow something happened with their mail-in ballot so they had to show up and vo provisional. >> we have that joe biden has 59% for al fwaepy county. do you have a sense -- >> he's up by 138,000 right now, i think he'll go over 60% when it's all said and done and he'll probably have a dealta of about 150,000 as opposed to 138,000 right now. pick up never 10 to 12,000. i want to ask you about the claims made by the trump campaign about fraud and about malfeasance in the vote counting and the way they're being counted and with and i think it

better to hear from you, someone who is helping to run these electionshave you seen any fraud in your vote count? >> nothing. there has been the most transparent process, the warehouse has been open, you guys have been there, all media has been there with process, there are eyes in the sky, cameras all over the place in the ceilings, probably more cameras than there are in a casino. everything is on camera. the democratic and republican poll watchers have been watching it the whole time. the republican chair who serves on the election board with me praised our workers, praised the dozens and dozens of workers for the great work they did knowing that the eyes of america are on them and that they're doing a great job for democracy. >> you know, rich, i'm so glad you said that. can we just talk about this for one second because i've run four times in congressional races and i'm always truck, you can have a tough campaign but when you go to polling places, people don't

understand what patriots are inside of those polling places and i don't care if it's republicans and democrats in the middle of a political battle. it's been a political blood bath. they're sitting there and they all want to do the same thing. they want to make sure that their neighbors' votes get counted. and it's really inspirational. can you share that with americans who aren't as privileged like you are to be inside the democratic heart beat of our process and how inspiring it is? >> they have to be there at 6 in the morning, they have to be there thefor 13 hours, they havo check people in. you don't know if they're democrats or republicans. they tend to be seniors, they tend to be older and this time it was obviously very difficult with covid. we had a lot of seniors who felt

uncomfortable, they didn't want to do it and we had so many volunteers who stepped up and manned and staffed those 6,600 places that we had to put in place at our 1,300 polling places. after that, they go into the the warehouse, they've been there for hours and hours, they're leaving their families and homes for long stretches a the a time to go down democracy's work. they're my heroes, they really are. >> hour eario is steve kornackisteve, why tent you jump in given how deeply in the weeds you've been in this entire process. >> i think you got it at the big board, which was your sense of the provisional ballots outstanding. you said you expect when all is counted, biden would add about 10,000 to 12,000 to his lead in

allegheny county. is that just based on the outstanding male vote with then the intention to grow with the provisional? >> exactly. he's still running about 55 votes behind in philadelphia. not behind but behind what hillary did in philadelphia. so there's a lot more votes coming out of philly that will go into the biden camp. >> i wonder if you could walk me and others through. because this provisional ballot issue in terms of the number out there in pennsylvania and the question they going to be a little bit more republican than usual, when you say they're going 75/25 democratic dawes we don't have any actual results in the system yet from that, take us through why you're confident about that. >> first of all, again, what i

said was a lot of the people who either didn't get it in the mail, it got lost in the mail, whaef happen whatever happened, they were not allowed once they applied for a ballot, they were not allowed to get a normal ballot at their polling place. they were only allowed to get a provisional ballot. after all the other votes are counted, people go and open up the provisional ballots, the pole workers to see, in one, if, if it did come back in the mail, it wouldn't be counted a second time. it's a painstaking process they've got to go through, each one of them by hand. it not like so this does take a number of days to go through those 17,000 or so ballots. >> hey, rich, one fine we,

considering the hat that you're wearing, 4:00 this afternoon, pit particular on smu. >> i hope it happens. we have where i went to school karg millerone of the reasons jade won this was labor. they joted for joe biden in much, much bigger numbers than they did had. they said it was much, much easier, them were grab labor is the one i think that really carried him oaf in south wench pennsylvania. >> all right, allegheny county executive rich fits gerald,

serving in your they're to. >> thanks, guys. have a a good day. >>y ewe now have a statement from someone high up in the biden campaign. mica. >> it we feel frustration with the networks. it looks like today will be and we have a clear picture of who won and they need to call it. >> steve dorn aky, you it staub looking at the provisional ballots sealed and we're going to be hearing a lot more from allegheny and philly. and we've been hearing, oh,

we're going to wait until biden has a little more of a lead. then it we're going to wait until biden is at 0.5% and they keep moving the goal posts and we're not exactly sure whyand i don't think there's a person at any newspaper or any any news organization that thinks donald trump has a remote chance winning pam. >> again, i think it's just look at the math and make your own judgment. if you look at the statewide vote right now, it's sitting at almost 30,000. as you say, it's now up to half a point. it has been doing nothing, that biden lead, but increase as this mail-in vote counting process has continued. we know as you just heard, there's 20,000 more or so could and if he does that in the remaining male ballots and that

has just been the slu had the case bld wide lo mr. there is still outstanding male vote in philadelphia that could pad that margin further and still outstanding male ballot from a number of counties and yes, i did's le-- if you get there and think conservative say that it's 50,000, it could be higher, it can be significantly higher, but if you say 50,000 and then you say that there is an absentee pool of 100,000 voters, then donald trump to erase a 50,000 vote statewide vote with mood to

be willing 75% of the provisional vote. and then you add in -- we know there is a disproportionately high new of there so then it raises the -- how trump would get 75% or anything even in that neighborhood from there. and that is with the conservativest ma the of the deficit he's going to be trying to attack here. so make your on put. >> stay with us steve. willie, the fact is we lessen to rich about the provisional ballots and he said in allegheny county -- and he knows allegheny county better than anybody. he said they're going to brake 25 and yesterday when the military ballots came in and i

was i'm looking at that map right now and asking the same question was asking at 10:00, 11:00 on tuesday night when i was looking at the florida map. this isn't close. it's not going to get any closer. and it should be called. and yet nothing yet at 9:13 a.m. for days after the election. >> yeah, we heard from rich fitzgerald. he said the number you see, the 138,000 split could get up to 150 by the time the provisionals are counted. and that's just in allegheny county. we just heard steve outlining all the votes left out there in the city of philadelphia, which of curse overwhelming think for steve biden. trust your eyes. you know what's coming. it's just a matter of time. it's important to underline what

rich fits jared said about the process. as we've been saying that for three, for days, the trump campaign and his enablers, some in the united states senate, some hosting tv and radio shows are flooding social media with conspiratorial garbage. rich said there are republican observers in the room as there have to be by law. there are more cameras than a vegas casino, he said. that's happening across the country so you can block that stuff out and just focus on the vote. steve, i wanted to go out west for a minute if you can get on your map there for a second. we heard mika read that statement about arizona and nevada. a lot of focus on pennsylvania for good reason, but how close to do you think the democrats are in nevada, for example, where so of the and arizona has been in limbo since it was called by some organizations on tuesday night. >> biden sit at 22,000, a little

bit above there. as like we've seen in pennsylvania, that biden league has been ticking up. it is clark county, the las vegas area. that's where the vast majority of the outstanding vote is from. we've got basically two piles of votes here in clark county that are left to come. number one, about half, perhaps a little bit less than half mail-in ballots. here we go again, the mail-in ballots in clark county are breaking for joe biden by a 2-1 margin. so you take -- this is basically -- this is just about all the outstanding vote and just about half of it is mail-in ballots. and the mail-in ballots are breaking 2-1. so just on the mail-in ballot portion and then fwen, what are we will clark county nevada that

have yet to be counted. in nevada a provisional ballot, most of the provisional ballots, what they really same-day registration. so nevada is a state where you can go to the polls on election day, i fet you show you at the polls and you want to change your party and if you change your party registration, imdid but what we do have from the secretary of state neft is a breck dunn dlot i could tell you there's 2,000 more democrats than they be in is already a democratic county. you've got more democrats than republicans who did same-day registration so once again we'll

be in a situation where biden has a statewide lead that is expected to grow as the remaining mail-in ballots are counted and then trump will be left with a pool of provisional ballots that we have reason to believe contains far more than enough democrats to keep that lead from dropping. >> and again, there's not a single person that i've spoken with and i've been on the phone nonstop for the past four days, in nevada. especially because it's clark county. if it wasn't as con season treated there would be an issue there. and again independent sayi abou nevada and pennsylvania that i've been telling you about florida for serve, that joe biden wasn't ahead be 7 or 8

it's not even -- i'm not even trying to be by part opinion at the end of the day, for me, everything i saw didn't add up in florida. it just like it's not adding you in pennsylvania right now or nevada to think that there for the say reason there was no chance let's bring in the house center, dave i want to pick up on a couple of things you've written about. if we can get the board up -- >> do you want to first ask him if he's mad at you? >> no, he's not mad at me. he knew he was going to be on the within stand. >> geez, take it down a notch. i'll be like matlack.

going up more in fulton and atlanta county and then you talked about the military ballots, which we've always assumed in the past we're going to break more republican than democratic that wasn't the case in allegheny county. and it's probably not going to be the date innon, donald trump was was losing military voters in a military times poll a month out. and also you just have a different set of voters in mr. and we found some of the more moderate republicans were people who had been in the military their whole life and joe, most

of this -- potential ballots that have or have not come back yet. but most of these are not going to be military ballots at all. these are overseas and military at that provide employees of cnn, could be employees of the cdc in atlanta. these are people all around the world who are sending ballots back and has overseas and military ballots and other states go overwhelmingly for joe biden. so i think the likelihood is they will stretch biden's lead in georgia further. i would make one final prediction and that is in biden's lead do hold, bide wrenn will dedicate a win to john

lewis and to john mccain. >> yes, exactly. these poll workers who m many cases are working around the clock are risking exposure to the coronavirus and all sorts of things in order to be out there doing this for our democracy. it's important to keep that in mind and really salute them. also, donald trump tweeting a lot. we're not going to read his tweets. i can't, though. twitter has put a little on t s this. >> it's misleading. >> it says some of couldn't tent is. >> which is again twitter sid they were requesting to do. the misinformation, ne weren't going to allow it to spret about voting. >> okay. let's go from georgia to philadelphia and pennsylvania. you put out some information ou

and so more for joe biden than usual. why is that? >> eye trying to get information from the city commissioners on this. but their web site, wfs oweding war that were essentially outlierses, low repeated presen presentsin and from the election day vote, who mo in in and in

west philadelphia, some tho and we also know the trump heaviest precincts in philadelphia in far northeast philly and in southeast fill li both pretty catholic areas that went for trump hill on election the bottom line here is that we snk we don't know for sure. there's no way to know. but we might expect that they would be even biden friendlier than the malt ballots that already have been counted. >> all right. let's go to arizona. i'd love to get your input on what you see in arizona. that's a rudy giuliani arizona reported about 85% of their vote. they seem to be picking up 1% a

day. they may be done at some point this weekend. but i've hearne to win arizona they'd have to win 58, 5 the% of the vote. he has failed to do that over the last few days and that number is bumping up to 61%. tell us what you're seeing even as donald trump whittles down the difference between he and joe biden to just below 30,000. the numbers right now don't seem to be adding up for him as far as what needs to bring home, to win that state. drive into the details, if you will. >> reporter: yeah, joe. every batch that is coming in where trum specific not able to meet what he needs coming in. and his threshold for what he needs keeps rying it gets

gloomier for the president in terse of the type of ballot that might be favorable to him. so, look, there's no question right now that you'd rather be joe biden with that lead in arizona. >> yeah. understatement but thank you very much, david wasserman. thank you so much for your patience this morning. and we thank our viewers as well for their patience as we follow the numbers. still ahead on "morning joe" on this special saturday edition, georgia is now home to twin showdowns that could determine control of the u.s. senate. political reporter joins us with the latest from therethat is next on "morning joe." ♪ thought you were someone else ♪ ♪ should we talk about the weather ♪ ♪ should we talk about the

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♪ shine the light, light ♪ philadelphia freedom welcome back to "morning joe." still in this position of awaiting results -- >> willie, willie, we have breaking news. >> oh, come on. >> the decision desk has called. >> come on, stop it. >> bob dole the apparent winner in the 1996 republican nomination fight, they believe right now, though they're not ready to say definitively, all of the networks believe that pat

buchanan does not have the votes required to end up winning the 1996 republican national convention. we're going out on a limb. we're making that call. >> you're funny but never say breaking news again today unless we actually have it. >> breaking news -- >> stop it! okay. just -- well, the biden campaign agrees with you. they feel they have more than enough in the data that has been released to make the call and that they hope that networks and major newspapers make the call as soon as possible. they're concerned, as many can be at this point, that the call hasn't been made. >> just so we're really clear here, i've been calling this both ways. i was a broken record and i upset a lot of democrats by

continuing to say trump was going to win florida. i'm probably you setting republicans -- no, i'm not because they know. >> and they set it up this way. we're here because of republicans. >> there's no pathway for donald trump to win the state of pennsylvania. >> but there are other republicans who would like their votes counted so they could win their races. >> can i finish? >> yes. >> can i finish? >> yes. >> even they know it. we'll be getting back to you about the 2008 race but with that, let me turn it back to y you. >> and too close to call the 1994 congressional race in florida's panhandle, that district. jonathan lemire, let's go back to the news that mark meadows has tested positive for

covid-19, along with a couple of other staffers. what more can you tell us first about mark meadows avenue diagnosis and the efforts as reported first by bloomberg that the white house tried to keep this quiet before reporters dug into it last night? >> of course they did. >> first of all, congratulations to senator dole. the white house outbreak came to light late last night, willie, as you said, chief of staff mark meadows, let's be clear here, had a cavalier attitude about the virus, sort of reflective of how most in the white house have treated this pandemic, rarely wore a mask, even in the hours after the president, about a month ago contracted the virus, he was still in the white house without a mask. he has been of course was the one that went with president donald trump to walter reed

medical center. an outbreak that infected several high-level staffers and dozens more when you count those at the white house rose garden. on tuesday, on election day, coming off of a three days of barn storming travel, the president went to his campaign headquarters in arlington, virginia where he thanked staff. mark meadows is there plain as day. he's in all the photographs. no mask. that night the president had that event at the white house, an election night event at the white house where a couple hundred people were packed in to the east room. they were given covid tests, the white house says, but as we know, those tests don't always pick up if you're in the early stages of having the virus. and the rapid tests, which are not 100% fool proof don't always pick it up. and he was there without a mask,

walking around a crowd of people without a mask, including senior administration officials, members of the president's family and indeed campaign staff and white house aides. we know now beyond meadows that there are a number of others who have had it we know the white house did not disclose this publicly. meadows himself ordered staff to not cooperate, to not put this information out and it was only after the media started digging around the last day or so did we learn about yet another white house outbreak coming on the heels of one of the vice president's office, the one when the president himself got sick and then those over the summer. the white house itself as cases surged throughout the nation, the white house itself remains a covid hot spot. >> my god. >> i was going to say let's keep in mind the white house tried to keep the president's own diagnosis until jennifer jacobs of bloomberg blue that open and

she did that again last night. let's remind our viewers again yesterday, a new daily record in this country of 122,000 new cases of coronavirus, three consecutive days of records, three consecutive days of over 100,000 new cases. while the country is focused on this election rightly, the coronavirus epidemic in this country is exploding. >> and over a thousand people dead yesterday, proving again, once again, that donald trump's lies about these cases going up just because there's more testing is a lie. and, yes, another lie that donald trump pushed around that unfortunately some of my friends repeated, i can't believe they repeated it, was that watch covid after november 3rd, it's going to just disappear. no. it wasn't a hoax. you shouldn't have been stupid enough to fall for that. you're putting yourself and your family at risk and your loved

ones at risk. and, in fact, as dr. fauci warned us, as joe biden warned us, we are moving into a phase now where actually the numbers are going to continue going up for quite some time because, as he predicted in the spring that when flu season comes and when people go inside more because it's cold outside, that's going to cause an explosion of cases and that's exactly what's happening. this is predictable as the sun setting at night and rising in the morning, and you and your political cult can't stop that from happening. just because somebody tells you something is true doesn't mean that you can alter the laws of science or viruses or medicines. >> if i could just add in over the past two, three, four weeks, the president has been hospital scotching the nation, holding

superspreader events. so these spikes and these numbers in part, just talking about data and how this virus spreads and the numbers that local public health departments are following, these spikes are in part because of the president's events, where he forced thousands of people -- called them to gather and squished them together for hours and there is data that proves that deaths and coronavirus cases happened because of those events. >> so here is my hope and i will say my prayer for you and your families, that now that this election is over, now that the voting is completed, that in your mind you can separate politics with the wellness and the health of your family and especially your parents, your grandparents and your children, who have underlying conditions. that's my hope and my prayer for

you and your family. let's talk about what's happening today on the president's schedule. jonathan lemire, he has started by putting out a lot of misinformation that twitter is labelling as misinformation. other than doing that, does the president have any other plans today? >> let's set the back drop of the day. we see the vote totals climb being in pennsylvania, those in nevada and arizona. there's an expectation that they believe this race will be called today, that joe biden will be president-elect. donald trump has tweeted. those have been flagged by twitter. there will be a news conference in philadelphia later today with some of his lawyers. as far as the president himself, can i lay out these clues. right now my colleagues in the white house press pool, who are traveling with the president today have assembled on the south lawn of the house and,

they're not known in advance. they're known as an otr. there's a virginia state trooper in there, a plain closed police officer, a set of golf clubs was spotted. the president of the united states is expected to go golfing at his golf course in virginia where he will remain for the next several hours where potentially he will be when the race is called for joe biden. >> how interesting. i wonder if that's the same golf club that his director of national intelligence was, dan croates, when he was notified that donald trump just told reporters that dan croates was fired. so, willie, we know what the

president is doing todaywe know what a lot of ballot counting going on today. and a really tight race especially in georgia. >> yeah, georgia is fascinating. let's head back there now where we have political reporter greg bluestein and editor at large and msnbc contributor erin haynes. good morning to you both. greg, let me begin with you first before we get to these two critical senate races that could tip the balance of the united states senate. let's talk about what's happening with the vote for the presidential race, just over a 7,000 vote lead right now with some new provisional ballots from fulton county where atlanta is for joe biden. do you see that lead moving at all and are we, in fact, headed

to a recount in georgia? >> who would have thought that georgia would be the home of the tightest presidential contest in the nation? >> i don't see the numbers changing dramatically. you still have military overseas ballots coming as well. some are coming from cdc moyeies, fortune 500 employees, they're not expectedly it. there will likely be a recount here but it not likely to change the facts on the ground. >> we should tell our viewers that recounts when they are held, and they're infrequent, they often change by a handful votes. joe biden is up by 7,200 votes in the state of georgia. what did you see ultimate in the suburban counties we talked about so much in the leadup. talking about cobb and gwynette

county. did joe biden keep up the momentum established in 2018? >> he did. obviously the blue wave across the suburb held. democrats continued their big -- to consolidate their gains around metro atlanta's inner suburbs. republicans get the bulk of their votes in metro atlanta, but democrats were able to undercut those margins. that's why this race got even closer in places like chair key anding about trobs still lost those counties but didn't lose by the same big margins they lost theme in 2016. >> professor, do you have a question? >> yeah, i have a i have a question for and stacey abrams,

how important she is and continues to be to the state of georgia and now national politics. can you talk a little bit about her approach, not only for the governor's race but her approach to the electorate in georgia and how it had an impact on this this particular election in this moment? >> sure. and that's an excellent question, which i know that my former associated press colleague, greg blue stob. stacey abrams as minority leader was already looking to expand the electorate in georgia. we talked about who could have seen this coming. she has seen this coming and has predicted the moment we find ourselves in for some years. particularly by going after those folks that traditionally have been none voters but

considering them absolutely in play and nothing us but maybe who would be inclined to vote democratic if only they could be encouraged to have a reason to turn out to the polls. that has been her strategy when she established the new georgia product in 2014 and then expanded her efforts after she narrow and brian kemp in 2018. continue to hut per -- largely led by black and brown organizers, to continue and register and turn yow and that is rahal wa you see and really putting our home state into focus here. not this election week but looking ahead to this ruboff for

the two. >> susan del percio has the next question. susan? >> yeah. we know all senate races are not created equal. and now we're going to have two at the same time in georgia. i'm wondering if you can jockey this out a little bit. will one party pay more attention to one over the other? it seems like to me purdue, if asa can win that race, it's game over for the republicans taking the senate -- i mean democrats taking the senate -- oh, sorry. let me rephrase. for democrats taking the senate. how do you think this is going to break out as far as ground games and organizing? >> yeah, great question. i don't see really split ticket voting in georgia come january. you saw very, very little of that in the november election. these two -- both these races, if they both end up going to runoffs, will be crucial for both parties. i think republicans will need to

pick up both, democrats will need to pick up both for any chance at retaking the senate. you're going to see an intense ground game. both purdue and senator kelly leffler have different organizations behind them. david purdue had the full backing of the republican party of georgia. he has an expansive political network in the state and kelly loef loef loeffler had to duke it up. kelly ended up emerging as the republican nominee in that race so she has some unifying to do. i don't think there's going to be any question that republicans are going to be united in this race coming up because such big stakes are at hand. the control of the u.s. senate comes down to these two races. >> so, greg, let me ask you about the suburbs of atlanta and

how they relate to suburbs across the rest of the south. i was born actually in the suburbs of atlanta, believe it or not, when dooraville was on the reaches of the suburbs. my dad worked downtown at rich's. my brother lives up there right now. but what is the difference between, say, the atlanta suburbs, which are going blue and also suburbs in birmingham like mountain brook? i spent a lot of time in alabama and mississippi and what i'm trying to differentiate is my son went to university of alabama and his friends that settled in birmingham and were from birmingham were all voting for donald trump. they're all republicans. were voting for donald trump.

but his friends who went back home to atlanta are like are you kidding me? no, i'm not voting for donald trump. there's a real difference. what is it uniquely about voters who really helped newt gingrich during his rise when he was speaker of the house, who are now voting for democrats what's made atlanta different from other suburb across the northeast? >> the suburbs are not uniformly white anymore. they're not stand-ins for just saying white voters. the suburbs, especially around gwynette county and north dekalb county, they're becoming more diverse, younger electorate. that's why you saw the 7th congressional district just flip.

it was one of the democrats' biggest gains in the u.s. house this cycle. that flipped because of the younger, more diverse background there. and the suburbs who began in 2016 bolted from president trump, and that was the biggest surprise for us here in 2016 in georgia was neither campaign played big in georgia, nieleith hillary clinton or president trump. dekalb county, the republican party's backbone for years around stacy agram consolidated that two years later. those are the big changes. >> when women are fed up, watch out. >> amen. >> watch out. errin haines, talk about the impact of stacey abrams and if

you want to build on the point greg was making, and also what's the timeline on georgia? >> well, you know, i know -- i heard joe this morning urging the timeline to hurry up and get decided here. i think we're in the -- i don't know -- maybe the third stage of waiting here. we're past anger and denial and into bargaining with the viewers in holding on. we have poll workers working so hard to get a result. but, you know, certainly that's close. look, i mean stacy abramsabrams impact cannot be overlooked. i want to acknowledge the grassroots work that has been happening in places like georgia, in places like milwaukee and philadelphia and pittsburgh about black organizers, especially black women organizers, and that's what you're seeing, and that is

in this election cycle, we said the dual issues of pandemic and racial issues was going to emerge and that's what we're seeing with women and voters across the country. stacey abrams was a huge part of that. she told me this spring headed into 2020 she was already into voter suppression and the pandemic only exacerbated the challenge for her, but she absolutely rose to the challenge this cycle, and i think she is getting a much deserved victory lap that bodes well for her future, whatever she dieds that is. certainly there's been speculation especially as dnc chair and potential run for governor in a couple of years or maybe a position in the biden cabinet, if that's what she wants to do. she's earned that by potentially

delivering georgia for democrats. we're waiting to see if that is, indeed, the outcome. >> just reflecting all of this, just hearing from lots of different folks high up in the biden/harris campaign -- by the way, greg and errin, thank you very much for being on with us. you know, they want this to be done and to be done fairly, but another member of the campaign very high up saying it's time to start healing our country and having this election continue on like this is not healthy. that's how they're feeling. >> and, again, i want to be really clear. i don't really care what either of the campaigns say. i'm looking at the data. again, just like i looked at the data and it was very obvious-that joe biden was going to lose florida and i said the network should call it, it's the same thing right now in

pennsylvania. there is no good reason for them to continue to drag their feet and not call a race that they all know is going to joe biden. donald trump is tweeting and he's angry. >> but would you reflect the fact that it's not healthy to hang like this? >> well, again, it's not a decision desk's duty to worry about the social impact or the political impact of their decision. they should look at the data. so it doesn't matter what political campaigns say. it doesn't matter what often core anchors say, what commentators say. they have to make that decision. the problem with this -- i've followed elections since 1972. i was young, but i've been following them for a very long time. i have never seen a state that is so obviously in the bag for

one candidate not be called, but that's what we're seeing here with pennsylvania right now. so i'm talking about data. i'm not talking about the feelings of campaigns or comment tat aecommentators, i think it's irresponsible because they're concerned about donald trump being angry if they make the call. that's the only conclusion that can be drawn if you tune into all of the data. donald trump has intimidated the newspapers and media outlets from doing their job and calling this race and ending this election based on data and not the feelings of any campaigns. >> and i'm just saying the context around the statement and the information, the conversation i've had with this person high up in the campaign

about the statement about it not being healthy is not about the campaign's feelings. it's about the country, just like what you're saying, and at this point, the data is there. >> it is there and it should be called, and i suspect it will be called at some point today. we had heard before that they wanted biden to get over 10,000, 15,000 first, and he did that. then we heard, oh, we need to wait until it moves to 0.5%. he's now at 0.5%. and they've moved the goalpost again. and they continue moving the goalpost. you can draw whatever conclusions you want to draw for why they will not call a race in pennsylvania that is over, but they refuse to do it. anyway, let's bring in a member of the select committee on intel jans democrat jim heins.

congressman, thanks so much for being with us. why did the democrats underperform so badly in the house races? >> that's a great question, joe, and as you probably heard, the conversation started in the heavily leaked caucus meeting we had last week. the argument is predictable. we don't have a lot of data. one side is we didn't turn people out. you heard the other side saying some of the more extreme pronouncements around defund the police really badly hurt us in swing districts. until we have the data, we're only arguing with each other. what strikes me, joe, you have to look at exactly what happened. what troubles me is we had four years as democrats to tell a story and to sell the american

public. face it. we weren't selling against a political genius. we weren't selling against a president john mccain of dignity and integrity. we were selling against the most corrupt president in the history of this country, one who meaningly contributed to hundreds of thousands of deaths, and at the end of the day is more people voting on both sides. we've got to unpack that, of course. but i'm troubled by the fact we didn't do a good enough job selling against what was being offered by the other side, and that gets to how do we have a more persuasive message? how do we get to people who i think made a hobby of hating democrats, hard core trump voters. apparently we lost an unprecedented number of black and latino men? how can that be? that's the kind of introspection my party needs to do with bob

dole -- i'm sorry -- joe biden as president. >> that's why you're con fenced. with are convinced bob dole will win the 1996 nomination. >> i heard that. >> let's tick through the losses for the democrats. the state legislatures. i mean, the consequences of democrats not doing better in state legislative races is going to be felt for the next decade with redistricting. the senate, there were so many senate races that democrats were supposed to win. they came up short time and time again. the house races, those were shocking as well. and, again, democrats were running against a republican president who made one unforced error after another. even republicans were talking about what a terrible campaign donald trump ran, and yet they weren't able to bring it over the finish line. what i heard from my friends,

almost all of my friends and my family members who were voting for donald trump, it wasn't a vote about donald trump, and it wasn't really a vote about hating the democratic party. it was a vote about being scared of the democratic party, and despite all the bull -- i won't say the next word -- that you hear from progressives on twitter, they are concerned about safety. they are concerned about socialism. they are concerned that the democratic party is outside of the mainstream. and what i would say to them on defunding the police, i had nancy pelosi say she was against defunding the police on the show. i had jim clyburn saying he was against defunding the police on the show. i had al sharpton saying he was against defunding the police on the show. i had every democratic leader on my show and asked them. they all opposed even the slogan