day. we went to the polls and we supported our candidates, and now many are celebrating victory. yesterday nbc news called the presidential race for joe biden and kamala harris. within minutes, huge crowds began filling the streets, for many people, this win was personal. >> i stand for kamala's politics and biden's politics, but it is really exciting to finally see representation in the highest office of the nation. >> i see kamala harris as something really big, but i'm really excited that there's finally a female vice-president. >> i think that it is very inspiring because it shows other people, specifically people of color, that like it's possible. >> i'm ecstatic. that's it. electricity going through my body at this very moment. >> i'm just really excited for the future. >> by our count, at least 75 million voters chose mr. biden.

at least 71 million chose president trump. some hit the streets to protest, including some who repeated the president's claim of fraud at the polls. mr. trump says his legal fight will intensify tomorrow. during his victory speech last night, joe biden spoke directly to those americans who did not vote for him. it was the latest step in what may be a long, hard road to unifying the nation. >> it's time to put away the harsh rhetoric, lower the temperature, see each other again, listen to each other again, and to make progress we have to stop treating our opponents as our enemies. they are not our enemies. they are americans. >> president-elect biden's team is already preparing for its transition of power. the website is up and running. tomorrow he plans to unveil his coronavirus task force. meanwhile, president trump says the election is far from over. he is vowing to fight the

results in court. legal experts say his chances of overturning the election are slim. at best. lots for us to talk about this hour. but we begin with the celebrations. today crowds gathered again at black lives matter plaza in washington just across the street from the white house. nbc's carol lee joins us now to start us off. and, carol, i imagine the mood is a little bit more chill today than it was yesterday. yesterday it was pretty buoyant. >> reporter: yeah, and it was actually -- i arrived here earlier this afternoon. black lives matter plaza is behind me. it was packed. there were a lot of people who were still out there, and it was still very celebratory. people brought their kids. they were dancing in the streets, playing music. interestingly, they were playing some of president trump's campaign music, so dancing around to that. there was a marching band here earlier a little while ago. at least that's what it sounded like from where we are inside. but still, the city is

definitely celebrating, and there was a lot of coming together and a lot of that centralized in black lives matter plaza. one of our producers talked to some of the people who had come out earlier. and what she heard was that people were talking about that they hope this brings unity and really just a sense of moving forward. take a listen. >> we need to remember a number of things. we need to remember that everyone's votes counted, and democracy spoke. we need to remember that we are the united states of america. by the sheer fact that we bear that name, we need to reflect what we bear. so it's time for us to come together. and be united. >> i just hope that we can look beyond this moment, that we can understand that there's more that we have in common that brings us together than divides us. >> reporter: now, there's still a little bit of a crowd here

that's thinned out pretty significantly, but people are mulling around and just taking a look at some of the artwork that's out in the plaza. a little while ago people were doing the cupid shuffle, so there's still this sense of celebration, and it's not clear that that's waning any time soon. as for the president, he spent a few hours away from the white house today. he was out golfing, and he has nothing on his public schedule, once again, tomorrow. so it's unclear whether or not we will hear from him in person. we see plenty of his tweets, but whether or not we'll hear from him in person tomorrow. >> it's such a contrast from when that square was cleared in june for that photo op at saint john's episcopal church to now when people are doing the cupid shuffle in the middle of black lives matter plaza. so much has changed in the course of a few months. thank you, carol. that's nbc's carol lee starting us off from washington. as the celebrations continued, so, too, did the demonstrations. supporters of president trump in phoenix gathered again today to

protest the ongoing vote count. nbc's gadi schwartz is there. gadi, what's the mood like now? i presume that the crowd has not made peace with the idea that mathematically joe biden appears to have won this race. they are going to fight on. >> reporter: yeah, they haven't made peace with that, but they have been out here. it's a very subdued crowd here. we have some people that have been out here for eight hours. earlier the crowds were a lot bigger. but what's going on over here is the -- this is the maricopa county elections center. so people have been gathering here in the parking lot of the maricopa elections center. throughout the night, every single night for the last five nights, and just around the corner over here where you can't see them, there are two different deputies. and they are standing guard. this is where those votes are being counted. you've got people out there now following us. let me ask them real quick. hey, i'm going to ask you guys real fast, do you guys accept

the vice-president elect joe biden? >> do -- >> reporter: do you think joe biden won the election? >> no, i do not. >> reporter: do you think joe biden won the election? >> no. >> reporter: i'll be right back. i'm going to come talk to you in just a second. so you have a lot of people out here who are refusing to accept that joe biden accepted the election. and this is what happens any time the cameras come on. i'm going to take you over here. i want to tell you what's gone on inside this building. it's very, very important. what you're seeing here are people that support president trump. what you're also seeing is people that have come out and supported joe biden. but what you need to remember is maricopa county gave president trump the most amount of votes during 2016, over 700,000. this time about 200,000 more, but joe biden still seems to be coming out ahead. right now in this building, those ballots that have been counted, there are still 40,000 left. joe biden has a lead of about 16,000 votes.

there are still about 80,000 votes outstanding. we're hoping to get those by the next couple of days. back to you. >> thank you, gadi. nbc's gadi schwartz joining us from phoenix. elections are always filled with agony and ex ecstacy. president biden called this a time to heal in america. how will that work? especially with more than 70 million americans including some you just saw in phoenix who voted for president trump. and for that matter, how will he heal the divisions within the party? i mean, despite the white house win, it's not clear if the democrats will take the senate. they're also on track to lose at least some seats in the house, though. we project it will remain a democratic majority. and the debate continues over which factions within the party are moving it forward. or holding it back. joining us now is democratic congresswoman of washington state.

she represents most of seattle and will continue to do so after winning her race for reelection. congresswom congresswoman jayapal, welcome. >> thank you. it's so good to be with you. >> i don't mean to zip ahead of the celebrations too quickly, but the work of preparing for january has already begun. what is your sense of the mood in the democratic party right now? >> well, it is still elated, ecstatic, enormous sense of relief, i think for many of us. you know, i serve on the judiciary committee. and for four years i feel like we've been in this dark period of cruelty, lack of compassion, lack of leadership, and so we are still celebrating this enormous victory and how the victory came to be. there are a lot of parts of the country that came together to vote for joe biden and kamala harris, but we cannot under count or dismiss the enormous turnout of young people across this country, or of black and brown voters, you know, taking

arizona and georgia hopefully, fingers crossed. these are enormous victories because they speak to the coalition of the future. and i think that is what is so exciting for all of us. >> well, i think that may speak to why these races are so important. the democrats, we are projecting, will still have the majority in the house. but if that majority is decreasing, if that becomes a pattern rather than just a data point, then that's something the party may have to reckon with down the line. are you concerned about that at all, about the potential for losing that majority? >> well, we're not going to lose the majority this time for sure, but i just want to point out that many of those seats that we won in 2018, and incredible colleagues, some i'm extremely close to that are still waiting for results in their races, those seats were very difficult districts to win in the first place. they were seats that trump had really done damage on in 2016,

and so what happened in 2018 is not only did we have amazing turnout from people who had been organizing from the minute that trump got into the white house, but we also did not have donald trump on the ballot. so we have very big turnout, but the other side did not have the turnout that we saw in this election. and i don't know, joshua, what happens in 2022 when donald trump is no longer in the white house, if we can start to heal some of the great divisions, have some of the conversations that we need to have as a country. not only about how we reverse what donald trump has done and the damage he's done, but also the fact of how he got elected in the first place. you know, the incredible lack of belief of so many americans on all sides of the aisle, that government was going to make a difference for them, that either of the parties would make a difference. and i think that we have a chance now with joe biden and kamala harris to show that

government is the great equalizer of opportunity, and that we really can put money in people's pockets, take on climate change, put forward a better future, and have people believe that justice can be had in the united states of america. >> well, and that's what i was going to ask you about. briefly as i'm wondering how optimistic you are about that. i tend to think that it will work in terms of democrats coalescing. i used to live in san francisco and so i saw how a city can be governed when you have different factions of democrats who are all democrats but not all the same kinds of democrats. it feels like those battles can fall away in the face of another party's opposition, especially with the spectre of whatever donald trump will represent after 2021. >> that's right. i mean, i think we have so much possibility ahead of us. first of all, to tackle coronavirus at the scale of the crisis. you know, i think that joe biden is going to do that.

i think that we have real opportunity to invest in infrastructure, something that has always been a bipartisan issue, and green infrastructure with good union jobs. i think we have real opportunity to cancel some student debt across this country and make sure that higher education is free for everybody. that was part of joe biden's platform. we've got to take on health care. that's another opportunity. immigration reform, something i've spent a long time on. that's always been a bipartisan issue. so i see a lot of possibility even with the republican senate if that's what ends up happening. remember, before donald trump, we had many republicans who wanted to work on these issues for the people. mitch mcconnell was obstructionist. the senate was irrelevant during the last four years. but hopefully now we'll have more senators who are ready either because of 2022 or 2024, or because they just care about putting the country on the right track. and we stand ready to work with them. >> before i let you go, i have

to ask you about the significance of kamala harris' win. she spoke somewhat to little girls across the country who will see themselves in her eyes. i wonder what that means to you. i often think about, you know, if i had had a role model like such and such when i was a little boy, what my life would have been like, how much easier or different or the direction it might have taken. how do you reflect on the impact of kamala harris ascending to this office? >> it's so meaningful. i can't take the smile off my face. you know, kamala harris and i were elected on the same night. i was the first south asian american woman in the house. she was the first south asian american in the senate, and the second black woman in the senate. we've worked on a number of bills together. and people's futures change when they see themselves represented in some way, shape or form. and it isn't just that, you know, it's not just that she's going to bring her lived experience to bear.

it is that she's going to act differently on policy and prioritize things differently on policy because you don't have to explain immigration to kamala harris or racism or sexism or any of those things. she understands that from a lived perspective. and also because when those kids across the country look up and see a black woman, a south asian american woman as vice-president of the united states, they see their futures differently. and how beautiful that is for the united states of america. >> democratic congresswoman of washington state. congresswoman, congratulations on winning reelection and thanks for making time for us. >> thank you, joshua. >> president-elect biden is already making some big moves well before moving into the white house. we'll get into that next. and later, we'll dig into president trump's legal strategy. what is the plan? and could it work? >> tech: every customer has their own safelite story. this couple was on a camping trip...

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the votes are still being counted, but the numbers are clearly in joe biden's favor. the president-elect got more than 75 million votes, a record turnout. last night mr. biden made it clear that he considers that a mandate. his first order of business will be addressing the coronavirus pandemic. it continues to spread throughout the country at an accelerating rate. >> our work begins with getting covid under control. we cannot repair the economy, restore vitality, or relish life's most precious moments, hugging our grandchildren, children, birthdays, weddings, graduations, all the moments that matter most to us until we get it under control. on monday, i will name a group of leading scientists and experts as transition advisers. [ cheers and applause ] to help take the biden/harris covid plan and convert it into an action blueprint that will

start on january 20th, 2021. >> that blueprint cannot get built soon enough. by our count, the u.s. now has more than 10 million confirmed cases of covid-19. for more on all this we're joined by nbc national political reporter sahil kapur and amy ruiz, senior advisor to the kamala harris presidential campaign and partner at nuco strategies. good to have you tonight. sahil, let me start with you. the biden campaign plans to launch the covid task force monday. now the biden transition team, not just a campaign. former surgeon general murthy has been tapped to lead that group. what more do we know about him and about the task force? >> joshua, we know that murthy is a graduate of yale medical school. he served as president obama's surgeon general for two years. he has been an outspoken voice during the coronavirus pandemic. he gave a speech at the democratic convention this year

and was highly critical of the trump administration's handling of this problem. he said that the country had the talent and resources and technology to defeat this virus and in his words, what we're missing is leadership. now it looks like president-elect biden is going to put him in a position of leadership and he can show the country what he meant by that. >> emi, what do you think the significance of him building this task force before he starts to even build his cabinet? i wonder if maybe this might be politically advantageous since sometimes cabinet nominations can sort of telegraph where on the political spectrum an administration is going to land or what some of the policy agendas might be or who they might be appealing to. coronavirus feels much more like a broad spectrum problem that everybody wants solved. >> absolutely. i mean, i'll tell you every single american has been impacted by the, you know, lack of leadership from the trump

administration. joe biden, kamala harris campaigned on this from day one. they have been getting briefed daily on the coronavirus. this is going to be the first message they send our country. there is nothing more important than saving lives than, as joe biden said last night, returning to that vitality of the american economy. but first that begins with addressing coronavirus across the country. >> sahil, what's your sense of the path ahead for the biden/harris administration with regards to unity? joe biden said in his speech last night that it's the time for healing in america. i'm not convinced that america is ready to heal. i'm not sure that we're ready to make nice just yet. but what is your sense of the work ahead of president-elect biden? >> it will undoubtedly be an enormous challenge for president-elect biden to unite a country as deeply divided, fractured along party lines in my lifetime, along race, gender

and education. president-elect biden has campaigned aggressively on being a healer, being a unifier. he certainly has his work cut out for him, and a lot of it will depend on what he's able to get done, on what he's able to convince congress to do. that, of course, will depend on whether it's democrats or whether it's republicans controlling the senate. it looks like two runoffs in georgia are going to decide whether it's a 50/50 tie in the senate, in which case vice president-elect kamala harris breaks the tie and gives democrats control or republicans hold one of those two seats they will be in control. and they will have the ability to prevent president-elect biden from doing much of anything on legislation unless approved by the republican leadership. so there are some variables, some unknowns, but the task of uniting this country enormously challenging. vice-president biden's allies say -- they argue he is uniquely suit today this job. we'll see how it works. >> what's your sense of how he'll do it? in wondering what it is he can actually do, i kind of think about that scene in ghost

busters 2 where they ask the mayor to tell new yorkers to cool down. what do you want me to do, ask 8 million new yorkers to be nice to each other? it's a swarmy line, but he's got a point. what do we expect joe biden to do to knit the country together? ask trump supporters and biden supporters stop sniping at each other on facebook? what's the plan? >> this is something joe biden and kamala harris campaigned on. he got endorsements from people across the aisle. cindy mccain credited it from a lot of support we received in arizona. and across the board, hundreds of republicans, crossed party detroit lions support him because they know what's at stake in this election. i will tell you joe biden better than anyone understands what it's like to build bridges to bring people together, to work across party lines. he'd be one of the first to tell you that in order to gain

support, you have to earn support. and so it's on all of us as democrats, it's on us as organizers, as leaders within our party to make sure we're doing everything we can to bring our country together. >> and, emi, let me stick with you. how much of that depends on how much president trump concedes. can democrats go on and do the work they need to do whether he concedes or not? >> we're moving forward. you know, on january 20th, 2021 at 12:01:00 p.m., joe biden is going to be the president of the united states. it is time to move our country forward. of course we want president trump to have a graceful exit. of course we want him to do what's best in the interest of our country. but we're not going to hold our breath on that. i think a good sign is that tomorrow, as you mentioned, they're going to release this coronavirus task force. we cannot wait. we have to get our country back to work. and we have to be back. we have to keep moving forward. >> and, sahil, before we go,

what's your sense of how president trump's concession or the absence thereof might affect the biden administration's work? >> right, it won't affect the result. the president doesn't have to sign off on the result and whether or not he accepts it, joe biden will be, according to our projections at nbc, the next president of the united states. but it will complicate the president-elect's task of governing when a significant chunk of the country, whether it's 20, 30, 40% who happen to support president trump don't accept him as a legitimate president. that will be uncharted waters, and i did speak to many of the president's supporters just about a week or two ago when he was in arizona. almost to a person, they said they believe there would be foul play if joe biden were elected. they don't believe he could legitimately get enough votes. the president's potential lack of a concession here could create even greater hurdles and bigger challenges for president-elect biden to try to govern, to try to unite the country even if he does not consent of the other 40 some percent that supported president

trump. usually presidents have the acceptance of legitimacy. a big challenge ahead for president-elect biden. >> nbc's sahil kapur and democratic strategist emi ruiz, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> every election makes history, but this one gave us more than a few firsts. we'll talk to a candidate who made some history of his own when we come back. humira patients,... ...this one's for you. you inspired us to make your humira experience even better... with humira citrate-free. it has the same effectiveness you know and trust, but we removed the citrate buffers, there's less liquid, and a thinner needle... with less pain immediately following injection. ask your doctor about humira citrate-free. and you can use your co-pay card to pay as little as $5 a month. humira can lower your ability to fight infections. serious and sometimes fatal infections,... ...including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened,... ...as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems,... ...serious allergic reactions,

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over the years we've heard about a red wave or a blue wave. this year we had a rainbow wave, an historic election for lgbtq candidates. in delaware -- won her state senate race. she is the first openly transgender state senator in american history and she will be the nation's highest ranking transgender official. also -- two openly gay black

members. richey torres and mondare jones will represent districts north of manhattan. joining us now is richey torres. he will represent new york's 15th congressional district in the bronx. mr. torres, good evening. congratulations. >> it's an honor to be here. >> what made you decide to run for congress? i understand your background was a large factor, including growing up in public housing. >> yes. so for me the most powerful motivator for my public service is my lived experience. i spent most of my life in poverty. i was raised by a single mother who had to raise three children on minimum wage which in the 1990s was $4.25. and i grew up in molded and leaking conditions in public housing and i felt that there were -- no one with my lived experiences fighting for me in public office. so i one day said to myself, instead of standing on the side lines, why not become the change i wish to see? and i first ran for the city council at age 24.

then i ran for congress, and i embarked on a journey that has taken me from public housing in the bronx to the house of representatives in d.c. >> what are your public policies for bronx? public housing for sure. what else is on your to-do list? >> for me the highest priority is to put americans back to work through investments and infrastructure, to expand the child tax credit, the earned income tax credit, hazard pay so we put more money in the pockets of american families. and it's absolutely essential that we invest in our local and state governments. new york city is caught in a fiscal death spiral. and instead of supporting our city, you know, president donald trump has been actively sabotaging our city. we need a president like joe biden and a new congress that believes in breathing new life into cities like new york rather than sabotaging our city. >> i referred to you as one of the first openly gay black members of congress.

you are afro-latino. >> i am. >> i want to mention that aspect of your background. how do you feel about being a member of congress in an increasingly multi-hyphen ate america where we're able to hold all of these things in our head at the same time, say kamala harris being african-american, being south asian, having all of these multi-facetted parts to who we are, how does that strike you? >> look, identity is inter sectional rather than binary. i'm living proof. i'm part of a new generation of leadership that's every bit as diverse as america itself. 60% of the house democratic conference consists of people of color. women, lgbtq. i'm about to join the most diverse legislative conference in the history of the united states. that's a testament to how far we've come as a nation. >> you have a large learning

curve ahead of you to get actually mated in congress. >> yeah. >> i wonder what you are most looking forward to and what you are most looking forward to learning as a freshman member of the house. >> look, i -- it's unclear the political landscape in which we're going to govern. you know, i hope the democrats win the senate because if we have a democratic presidency and democratic senate and democratic house, we will have the makings of an fdr moment. we will have a once in a century opportunity to govern as boldly in the 21st century as fdr did in the 20th century to think i could be part of an fdr moment, that to me is the greatest satisfaction of public service. >> before i have to let you go, talk to me about how your district is doing right now with covid-19. we know that some parts of the tri-state area including parts of new york that are black and brown have been hit, first, hardest and deepest by covid with infections and with deaths.

what would you like to see policy wise that would be the biggest benefit to your constituents before we go? >> look, we desperately need health care. it's hardly an accident that the south bronx which is said to be the poorest congressional district in america had the highest rate of covid-19 morbidity and mortality during the peak of the pandemic. i myself had covid-19 back in march, and the economic consequences have been profound. the unemployment rate in the south bronx can be as high as 25%, which is comparable to the joblessness of the great depression. so we need a massive infrastructure investment, massive public works program here in the united states. that should be our number one priority. >> congressman elect richie torres of new york. congressman, congratulations again and thanks very much. >> thank you. take care. >> be careful with all that broken glass. it's from the ceilings kamala harris just shattered. more on our vice president-elect just ahead. stay close.

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but while i may be the first woman in this office, i will not be the last. [ cheers and applause ] because every little girl watching tonight sees that this is a country of possibilities. >> kamala harris just won a major office and inherited an enormous obligation. the office of vice-president may be the easy part. the obligation? being a role model on multiple levels. senator harris will be the first woman to serve a heartbeat away from the presidency. and our first black vice-president, and our first asian american vice-president. and the first daughter of immigrants to hold this job. her dad was jamaican, her mother was indian.

she spoke fondly of her mother last night. >> and to the woman most responsible for my presence here today, my mother, shyamala gopalan harris, when she came here at the age of 18 she didn't quite imagine this moment. but she believed so deeply in america where a moment like this is possible. >> joining us now is christina greer, associate professor of political science at fordham university, the author of black ethics, and the cohost of podcast ethics nyc. good to see you. >> great to see you, joshua. >> it's the obligation and role model part that gets me. priscilla thompson spoke about the role of mother. here's part of what she said. >> being able to see someone who looks like her, who looks like him is going to really help them

and help other children to know how far they can go in this world. >> reporter: when i saw you, i thought you were getting emotional on the first question. what's going through your mind? talk to me. >> the last four years have been really hard for parents, and i feel like we've created a better opportunity and a better world for our children, and that means a lot today. >> that is no small thing, i think, knowing not only do you have the obligation of the vice-presidency, but also the obligation to buoy people within your culture up who have been waiting for buoyancy for a very long time. >> indeed. you've seen on social media all of the t-shirts of little girls that say, my vp looks like me. you know, de scriptive representation does matter. we've seen this across the country. obviously the hard part will be representation and the policies kamala harris and joe biden

actually put forth in a very ideologically diverse democratic party, ideologically diverse, racially, ethnically diverse. it should not be understated. it's not just for little girls, but for little boys as well, what leadership looks like, what sort of different path of excellence can look like. children all across the country feel a certain pride, i'm sure. not everyone, but some. we also have a lot of firsts -- she represents historical black colleges and universities, hbcus. she is representative of the divine nine. as people think about pledging black sororities and fraternities as they think about going and pledging to hbcus, she went to howard university, stacey abrams went to spelman. these are our institutions that promoted black excellence for decades and now we're seeing the fruits of their labor and the

electoral space in a very specific and explicit way. >> we also heard from somebody who commented on that fact about her being an alum na of an hbcu. here's what that voter had to say. >> it really shows that you don't have to be from an ivy league. you can go to an hbcu, you can go to howard university and make impact and make change. that's what i think kamala is showing us today. >> reporter: and is there a sense of like seeing yourself in what is happening right now for her? >> yes, i'm especially seeing myself in this moment. >> i feel like that adds a layer to the conversation in terms of what we used to say in terms of the ideal of not really seeing color. i don't see color. i see a qualified individual. i don't care what color you are. i see you and your qualifications. it doesn't matter what your color is. but my color shapes my character, the school i go to, the culture i come from, how i'm educated, the values with which i'm raised. those all shape who i am, and it feels like that's kind of

undeniable with kamala harris, but how ready do you think we are as a nation to grapple with all that, to hold all those two things in our head at the same time? >> we're going to have some hard roads ahead, joshua. the past four years have shown us that this country still grapples with white supremacy. they still grapple with anti-black racism and anti-immigrant and anti-muslim and anti-semitic sentiments and the list goes on and on, antinative sentiments. it's not just about donald trump. it's what he's excavated and exposed about our nation. 70 million people said they wanted to continue on the course that donald trump has been taking us on for the past four years. 70 million people said that, you know, it's okay that waive got a recession and a quarter million of americans have died from coronavirus and women are being sterilized and children are being separated from their parents. 70 million people said, okay, that's fine. sign me up for more. so we're going to have some hard conversations. many people do not have a female boss. many people do not have a black

boss. so the fact that kamala harris identifies as a black woman and she's the number two, she's the second most powerful person in the united states of america as soon as she's sworn in on january 20th, that's going to be difficult for many people to process. that is on them. we know that this country mas e ebbed and flowed as far as progress, gender progress, racial progress since our inception. but we are in for some difficult conversations and it's far time that we've had them. and i think that that goes for not just people who have white nationalistic or anti-black sentiments, but our liberals as well who like to see themselves as racially progressive. it's a privileged position to say you don't see color when my lived experience, your lived experience is one that is undeniable and it affects every aspect of our lives. >> yeah, and as these next few years it will interesting to see how america has that conversation. fordham associate professor christina greer, professor,

always good to see you. thank you very much. >> always good to see you, joshua. >> president trump has filed a string of lawsuits over the last few days. how might they impact the transition, if at all? also, what could our next president learn from one of the world's greatest game show hosts? the political wisdom of alex trebek before we go. just like your fingertips, your lips have a unique print. ...and unique needs. your lips are like no others and need a lip routine that's just right for you.

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president trump says he's not going down without a fight. it's unclear how long that fight will last or how far it can go. so far his campaign has said he will not concede the race to joe biden. it has filed about a dozen lawsuits in battleground states. republican lawmakers are divided over whether this is the right move. a source close to jared kushner tells nbc news that the president's son-in-law has advised him to pursue legal remedies to the election. we've also confirmed that the trump campaign will produce obituaries of dead people who supposedly had ballots cast in

their names. and more rallies are in the works focused on these court fights. joining us now is michael kang, a research professor at northwestern's pritzker school of law. he's also an msnbc legal analyst. professor kang, welcome. >> thanks for having me. >> so, i run in an election, i lose the election, i say this was stolen from me fraudulently and i'm going to court. tell me what a judge would need to see and get from me to rule in my favor. >> the judge needs to know that there's been misconduct, wrongdoing, illegality, something like that that was sufficient in scale that it would actually change the outcome of the election if the judge were to intervene and correct those mistakes illegality wrongdoing. so it's a big hurdle to jump over for a losing candidate. that's appropriately so. for a winning candidate who seems to have come out ahead in the vote count, we don't want to make it too easy to overturn the election. that's why right now it looks

really difficult for the trump campaign to change the outcome of what looks like an electoral defeat for him in the presidential election. the margins just look too large to overcome through legal challenges. >> what does history tell us about how well these cases tend to go? >> it's pretty rare for a losing candidate to overcome the initial count going against them. there are very few cases where voter fraud, for instance, the trump campaign is really claiming here, is so wide scale that it would call into question the outcome of an election. you'll remember in 2018 there was this scandal with voter fraud where a republican operative had collected absentee votes ahead, applied for them in voters' names, collecting them and falsely filled them out. that was enough actually, though, to overturn the victory for the republican candidate in that race and they had to re-run the election. that is an extremely rare event. so far in this election, we just haven't seen any evidence that anything close to that scale has

happened. all of the claims so far, there's been a bunch of them, but they've either been completely unsubstantiated or really minor in scale. >> some republicans are divided on whether or not they support the president's campaign in doing this. here is a clip of senators ted cruz and lindsey graham expressing their support for these legal challenges. watch. >> i think that is way premature. at this point we do not know who has prevailed in the election. the media is desperately trying to get everyone to, to coronate joe biden as the next president. that's not how it works. the media doesn't get to select the president. the people elect the president. >> this is a contested election. the media doesn't decide who becomes the president. president trump should not concede. i would take all this to court. i would fight back. >> does this public narrative affect the legal fight? true media doesn't project the

president, but math is the thing. >> right, the media doesn't pick the election winner, that is absolutely true. but if there are claims that there is voter fraud or some sort of illegality and that's what the trump campaign is arguing these days, they need to prove that in court. they can't just prove that on facebook or twitter. and the standard of proofer for those types of claims is a lot higher in federal district court or state court than on social media. they really need to substantiate this to back it up. it's going to take a lot more than waving obituaries at a political rally for the next month to really change the outcome. they can substantiate claims of illegality or voter fraud, a court should take that seriously but they haven't come close to doing that so far. >> and very briefly, professor, what's the time line going forward for this? >> right. so, the states are continuing with their counts. they're going to go back, double-check their work, try to certify that any time in the next month. state deadlines are all over the map for that. but the recounts in legal

challenges, certainly in the states that are still outstanding, can occur even before certification. so the hope is that it won't slow down the whole process of getting the electoral count finalized and out to congress on time. >> right. >> and it sounds like courts are dealing with these kinds of challenges pretty expeditiously and shouldn't slow this down too much. but we'll see what happens over the next month. >> msnbc legal analyst professor kang, we appreciate you making time. thanks very much. >> thank you. >> something around. that is how jeopardy host alex trebek politely described what a lot of politicians liked to do by making short-sighted partisan moves. trebek died after a long fight with pancreatic cancer, he lived to be 80. in the autobiography, trebek wrote he is an independent. he felt some things are neekter liberal nor conservative they're common sense. for instance, new york and new jersey are seeking covid-19

financial relief. trebek lamented the resistance to granting relief, even though those states pay much more in federal taxes than they get back in benefits. to be clear, though, mr. trebek did not call out any person or party by name, but he did call out partisan gamesmanship. quote, the politicians on both sides of the aisle pass regulations that they ignore themselves for the to cater to the public prior to the elections. they're something around. they seem to take the short view rather than looking long term. i have one word of advice for both sides. enough. as for jeopardy, alex trebek taped enough episodes to air through christmas day. no word so far on who his successor might be, but he was clear on how he saw his role. quote, if you put the focus on the players rather than on yourself, the viewers will look on you as a good guy. if that's the way i'm remembered, i'm perfectly happy with that. unquote. good advice for all of our leaders. help others do their best, put

common sense above self-interest, and don't fumph around. thank you for making time for us tonight. remember to set your dvr for the week saturday and sunday night 8:00 p.m. eastern and do bring a friend. but until we meet again, i'm joshua johnson. our coverage of "decision 2020" continues on msnbc. ♪ ♪ good evening. it's 11:00 p.m. on the east coast. you're watching msnbc's continuing special election coverage as joe biden is elected the 46th president of the united states. we're already learning about announcements for tomorrow on the transition and a new covid transition task force. we're also looking ahead to day one of the biden administration

with reports of a flurry of executive orders to reverse what donald trump's been doing with executive power. for his part, trump is spending the day golfing. second day in a row he's done that. no public statement. we've got a very special show for you right now. including some special guests. special guests. my special comment on what it all means this weekend. and we will haveava longoria here live tonight. but we begin immediately with our all-star panel of experts. jason johnson, former united states senator. barbara boxer, and jonathan jays green who worked on senator warren's campaign and leads the progressive margery foundation. what does it all mean to you tonight? >> relief, happiness, joy. it's been really difficult for those of us who felt this president was leading us into a tyrannical place.