if it's thursday, the white house will hold its first task force briefing to the public since july. i guess better late than never. the cdc is now urging every american to stay home this thanksgiving. we'll see if the president believes his government should speak like that as more than 1200 americans are now dying every single day. plus, the president and his allies remain focused on rallying to support to overturn the results of a fair and free

election. with more disinformation today as key states like georgia inch closer to certifying that trump lost. as republican leaders stand by the president's attempts to disrupt the transition and tear down the republic, current and former administration officials are doing what this white house won't, reaching out to president-elect joe biden. welcome to thursday. it's "meet the press daily." we are searching for somebody to fill a leadership vacuum. i'm chuck todd. the white house announced, believe it or not, a stunning announcement that members of the white house coronavirus task force will be allowed to hold an actual public briefing this afternoon. this is the first time they've done this since july. roughly 100,000 of americans have died of this virus since then. to be clear, we don't know which task force officials will be speaking publicly, whether it's

the real ones or somebody like scott atlas. but the fact they're holding one, i guess, is a sign of some acknowledgement of what the rest of us are experiencing in america. and this comes as moments ago the cdc bluntly warned americans against traveling this thanksgiving. obviously, the president's personal epidemiologist on this, or he's not a real epidemiologist, scott atlas, is giving the exact opposite guidance. hopefully this task force briefing might clear something up. as the weather gets colder and the leaves are falling and winter approaches, we're experiencing the fall of america. and, yes, the pun was intended. the virus is raging out of control amid a leadership vacuum that rivals some of the darkest periods of america's history. more than 1200 americans are dying every day, and that number is going up. more than 160,000 are being infected every day and around 10,000 of those infected get hospitalized every day and our hospitalization number is 60,000 to 80,000 on any given day. the president has not once

acknowledged the problem since election night. not once. instead he's cheering on legal and local efforts to overturn the results of an election he lost. up until this point, governors and local officials have been left on their own to try to convince a covid-weary public their house is on fire. as our public health system battles the deadly virus and a massive misinformation ecosystem that has been consistently fed by this white house and its irresponsible allies. this outbreak is so bad right now, the governors everywhere, even the governors in the heart of trump country, who have long resisted restrictions and mask mandates are pleading with their constituents to act. >> ask yourself, do you feel better today about what's going on in this state than you felt maybe in june or july or august, when we were one of the lowest states for infection rates. our capacities are overwhelmed. we've relied on people to be

responsible. and they're being irresponsible. >> our health care system is being pushed to the brink. starting tomorrow, when you're in an indoor public space and unable to social distance for 15 minutes or longer, masks are required to be worn. >> our situation has changed, and we must change with it. face coverings are the most cost effective way to limit the spread of the virus if you are unable to physically distance. >> the house is on fire at this point. and we need everybody not to close their eyes, close their ears and sit in the house while it burns down on them. we need everybody to join the bucket brigade. >> from the standpoint of people feeding you, you-know-what and them telling you, well, he's telling you it's mandatory to wear your mask. the next thing, they're going to take your guns. the next thing they're going to shut down our businesses and everything. please tell them to stop that nonsense. it is nonsense. >> there are other governors who are maintaining their hands-off

approach. in a smaller state like south dakota which has one of the highest mortality rates in the world, according to one analysis. the governor there is digging in on her refusal to issue a mask mandate, even as neighboring north dakota did. >> i've consistently said that people that want to wear masks should wear masks, and people who don't, shouldn't be shamed because they choose not to. i don't want to approach a policy or a mandate just looking to make people feel good. i want to do good. and actually put forward provisions that make a difference for families. >> and in a bigger state like florida, mayors are pleading with the governor ron desantis to put some restrictions back in place. we'll talk to two of those mayors in a moment. there seems to be some governors think that only the rights of those who are being asked to wear a mask matter, not the rights of those who would like to not get this virus. first, let's check in with gabe guttierez in des moines, iowa, where the governor has reversed

her opposition to mask mandates as the state faces a runaway surge in cases. what was interesting about governor reynolds is she mocked those that asked for a mask mandate a few months ago. she's since flipped, and she is somebody who people tell me that data does matter to her. so clearly, the hospitalization situation in iowa is at a breaking point. >> yeah, that's right, chuck. the state department of health just a couple of days ago recommended the governor issue that mask mandate. earlier this year, she had talked about it being -- mask mandates in general being, quote, feel-good measures. still there are some critics in iowa that feel these new restrictions don't go far enough. chuck, you mentioned i was in des moines. we moved from des moines, about an hour outside of des moines. earlier today we had spoken with doctors and nurses who were worried their icu capacity was already full. that they had no more space. well, now we're here at a more rural hospital in knoxville,

iowa. this hospital has no covid icu. they are very worried about what the coming weeks and months will mean. i'm joined by the ceo of knoxville hospital and clinics. kevin kinkade, thank you for joining us. we're here outside of your emergency room. what is the situation inside this hospital right now? >> so, first, thank you for telling the real story. appreciate you being here. but as we currently set, we have, thankfully, been blessed to be able to meet our community need, but at the thinnest of margins. we just really don't have the capacity for any more of an upsurge. and our rural -- our metro partners we would refer to for higher levels of care, they are critical care beds of red lining as well as ours. >> help me understand here. you were telling me earlier that it's not just an issue with space but an issue of funding.

what had happened earlier this year, community hospitals like this in rural areas were really decimated because they couldn't do elective procedures anymore and their operations were limited earlier. how is that affecting them now, and how will that affect you over the coming weeks? >> it's been a very difficult financial situation for health care in general. but specifically to rural hospitals, they were already operating at very thin margins. and then when we were shut down from routine care and elective surgeries, that just shut off our economic lifeline. and so here in iowa and rural iowa, we were shut down for routine care, but we didn't have the virus wasn't here. so everything was kind of hypothetical at that time as to what would we do if there was an upsurge. and now the virus is here, and we're back to busting at the seams, which again has an impact on routine care, elective surgeries and so it is a very

tough economic situation for all rural hospitals. >> thank you for joining us here. chuck, we're near knoxville, iowa, about an hour outside of des moines. and this could be a very dangerous situation in the weeks and months to come. not just here but at rural hospitals really through the country. the cdc estimates that the covid death rate in rural areas is more than double what it is in nonrural areas, chuck. >> well, and that got, gabe, at the heart of the issue that's impacting all of the upper midwest, which is there are just not enough mainstream hospital beds so these smaller cities are getting overwhelmed by rural communities. anyway it was well done. glad you went out to knoxville to get that interview, gabe. good work. thank you. mayors in florida are pushing back against governor ron desantis' refusal to institute a simple mask mandate. let alone other restrictions

following a huge uptick in coronavirus cases and hospitalizations in america's third largest state. joining me are miami beach mayor and st. petersburg mayor. mayor, you put together this group of mayors, i think it was bipartisan if i'm not mistaken. you did your best in your letter to the governor to depoliticize this. it was sort of a plea. it was not angry. it was not antagonistic. what kind of response did you get? >> we haven't got any response. it's not my first letter, and i've tried not to be partisan. i think at times like this, just like in florida when a hurricane comes, it's really important for everybody to forget about what party you're in. but unfortunately, the governor is not responding because i think he's actually following this herd immunity that dr. atlas who has advised him and some other folks who believe it have also advised him. he's not listening to mainstream science. and at this point, we are

unleashing the virus and not even allowing local government. i gave out a thousand mask citations until roontly. the governor said we can't give citations anymore. he wants this to rip through the community. and although all the metrics suggest he's wrong, he's refusing to relent. hopefully he will. hubris cannot be the organizing principle of our response to the virus. he's really got to lead, and i think all of us asked him to yesterday. >> mayor, i know -- i want to read the response that the governor's spokesperson gave to local media on monday and it felt as if he's responding to another request, not the one that is very simple here. he says the governor will not lock down and hurt families who cannot afford to shelter in place for six weeks, especially for a virus has a 99% survival rate. what's left unsaid there is that the ask is for a mask mandate. it is not for a statewide lockdown. and i know that some of you would like to put more

restrictions in. but the idea that the governor is afraid of a mask mandate, i've not understood. you could keep -- nobody seems to want to keep an economy open with a mask mandate. it feels as if it's either all on one side or all on the other. no room for compromise on the other. >> this is -- it's such a simple thing to do. and all you have to do is look at what's happening in states all across the country. a lot of them with democrat -- with republican governors who have had mandatory mask orders. so none of us have been able to figure out what the problem is and why this governor won't do it. and if this governor is truly a governor who cares about the economy, this decision he's making makes no sense. it may help in the short term, but in the long term, it's going to be far worse for our business community when we have to completely shut down because the numbers have just blown up and our hospitals are swamped.

a simple mask mandate should help us reduce our numbers. our numbers in st. pete, we were averaging 2.5% to 3.5% before the governor did away with all of the orders and opened it completely up. now we're over 6% and watching that climb. we just cannot sustain it this way. >> have you thought about suing the governor? right now the most litigious is on the right. the minute a mask mandate, i think all of you have been sued for the various restrictions you've attempted. at this point, the governor is not allowing you to do your job and protect your citizens. have you thought about filing suit against the governor? >> you know, it's interesting you say that. we have thought about everything we could do. but at the end of the day, he is afforded a lot of executive power, including the ability to stop us from even doing things like a mask mandate or an individual citation. look, we shouldn't have to sue

to protect our residents from their governor. that, to me, is, you know, we've really reached -- not simply wit's end. i'm hoping the governor will rely on statistics. i'm hoping he's not so entrenched in his position that just, you know, getting in an argument is all that he cares about right now and he's going to keep going even in the face of, you know, almost 100 people dying in florida yesterday. my county has about 2,000 infections a day right now. and we know that in a few weeks, a percentage of them are going to go to the hospital, and about 10 to 15% of those that go to the hospital will die. so in the face of this enormous carnage, we shouldn't have to sue. we should just be able to prevail on him to do the right thing. >> mayor kristman, have you tried former governor rick scott? have you tried to go to the senators to quietly convince governor desantis? because it does seem like he's

on an island here. i'm not saying that either senators rubio or scott are trying to back seat drive him publicly, but this is not -- i don't think governor rick scott would have been this intrangeent. >> no, and governor rick scott at least reached out to us as mayors on a frequent basis any time we had something going on in our community. if there was a hurricane approaching, we always got a phone call from them. governor desantis has never reached out to my office. i know he hasn't spoken with my colleague across the bay in tampa. he is communicating with his office. it's very difficult. we've had conversations with all of our elected officials trying to get them to put pressure on governor desantis to do the right thing. it's simply about doing the right thing. it just makes no sense. you know, one other thing, chuck, when you were talking about the percentage that desantis was talking about.

i think he's forgetting that those percentages, those points are people. every single one of those represents somebody who has died. and i think he's getting caught up in numbers and forgetting that's somebody's mother, father, husband or wife. these represent real people. >> well, mayor gelber, i feel like you guys are at -- it sounds like you feel as if your hands are completely tied other than publicly pleading for governor desantis. and, look, we have no better luck than you guys do. i think only fox and friends knows how to get governor desantis to return a call because nobody else in any of the mainstream media can get him to return a call either. >> yeah, we -- listen, at the beginning of this, i actually called him and we spoke during spring break. my city gets millions of people so we have this other issue of, what do you do with visitors. and i will tell you that, i sent

him pictures of crowds on the beach. and he actually called me back and we did some things. i think what happened, as the election came closer, this entire terrain has been politicized. and now it just is continuing to be politicized which is so dangerous in an emergency and a crisis and a pandemic to politicize mask wearing. how absurd is that. >> well, the two governors that seem to be the most resistance, the governor of south dakota and governor of florida both seem to be the most aggressive at thinking about running for president in 2024. i just throw that fact out there. miami beach mayor dan gelber and rick kriseman, thank you for coming on. president trump's shifting and struggling legal strategy over the election results. rudy giuliani is even quoting "my cousin vinny." new reporting says the president is trying to give up on

disqualifying ballots and his team is preparing for conclusion to the election fight but not until december. meanwhile, be sure to join us for "meet the press reports" tonight. the electoral map as we know it is changing. democrats made some big gains in the suburbs. republicans cleaned up in rural areas. is the geography a destiny? and what will the political map look like in 2024? join us for "meet the press reports" tonight on nbc news now and it streams any time you want on demand on peacock. we'll be right back. businesses run. and most important is the ability to transform the smallest of businesses right in our neighborhoods. we created the 5g business impact challenge to give them the tools for them to come back stronger. the things that folks are doing today to survive during the pandemic will help them become more resilient into the future and technology like 5g

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welcome back. president trump's hopes to win the election at the polls failed. his hopes of winning in the courts appear to be failing as well. so now the president may be adopting a strategy he's employed throughout his life in both politics and business, delay, delay, delay.

senior trump administration officials tell nbc news that the president's allies plan to drag out this legal fight over election results until december 14th, the day the electoral college meets. and according to "the washington post," president trump is abandoning his plan to win re-election by disqualifying enough ballots to reverse joe biden wins to pivot to a goal equally unattainable. delaying it long enough to cast doubt and maybe some state legislature goes rogue. that story broke hours before the company announced it was withdrawing its legal challenge in michigan. and rudy giuliani has been doing an "snl" skit of sorts. he's the guy leading trump campai campaign's legal efforts. he told reporters without presenting any real evidence that there was a, quote, centralized plan to commit voter fraud in big cities run by democrats in states donald trump lost. you can get all that. antifa was small involved as well. one of the states, georgia, is set to release the results of

its hand-counted audit and it's expected to reaffirm joe biden's victory there. even as the president-elect awa awaits, there's been private outreach to them from current and former trump administration officials who are a bit aghast at what's going on. covering the trump white house is nbc's carol lee and mike memoli is covering the president-elect in delaware. carol, i'll start with you today. i don't -- we can't even play clips of this rudy giuliani press conference. it's so filled with just lies, made up stuff, crazy allegations. i mean it really is -- "snl" would blush at what this looks like. but this appears to be the moment that they are going to try to go down in a blaze of glory. is that about the best way to describe this mess? >> yeah, at least rudy giuliani and the folks who saw standing alongside him. i was talking to a republican

during this who i asked, who believes what the president's lawyer is currently saying on tv? he said you're looking at it. those are the officials around the president who think this is viable, that this is an actual strategy, that it's something that may get the president somewhere. but it's not. and as you noted, chuck, this has gone from trying to win at the ballot box to trying to win this legal strategy to now just trying to create just general sort of chaos and an undermining of the confidence that the american people can have in the vote which is that joe biden is the next president. and he will take office in january. the problem that i think you're starting to see among people around the president is that they were going from week to week, you know, we'd have oh, we think we'll get the president to a place where he'll admit this is over by the end of the week or next week. now we'll look to the certification of the votes in december. the electoral college. but all of that just -- he keeps blowing through all of those barriers. what you're seeing from rudy giuliani and the post has great

reporting on this is that they're just going to keep going. and the question is to what end? will there ever be a transition? is the president going to ever come out and say this is over? we know he's been trying to get to this, quote, conclusion, or at least people are trying to get him to one, but this strategy is -- it's just taken a turn in the last 24, 36 hours. >> carol, i mean, is there anybody in that white house self-aware enough that maybe even though the georgia runoffs are being held over the heads of senate republicans that they are losing their patience with this, too? >> look, chuck. frankly, the more you talk to people inside the white house, there's just a real sense of embarrassment by this that there's people who don't -- >> embarrassment? i've gotten that sense, too. >> they think they are disgusted by it. they think this is a terrible way to go out. you have to underscore these are people who believe in this

president, who believed in his policies who think he has a good legacy to talk about and see him trashing it by going down this road and leaving rudy giuliani out there to hold press conferences like this. they think that this is not the way that he should be going out. >> no, it's sad. there are people devoted to the president that believe in the american democracy. let's hope those folks have the guts to speak up right now. mike memoli, let me go to the president-elect. i know they've been preaching patience with all of this. but do they want to start amping up the sort of public lecturing a bit? do they want to try to smoke out more republicans who just think this is -- this has gone from embarrassing to destructive? >> yeah, i was talking to one transition official last week who told me there was always contingency planning, even as they were working for months for -- in the pre-election period for what the postelection

period would like like. a contingency plan for what happens if trump does not cooperate. does not acknowledge the result of the election. for the last two weeks in reminding you there are -- they are now into the third week, for the last two weeks, they've been proceeding with that contingency plan. i think now they are starting to get to the point of disbelief that this is still, frankly, going on. the patience was part of the strategy. you've seen that from the president-elect every time he's been asked publicly about this. but more and more even biden himself is talking about the consequences of this delay, what it means just yesterday for vaccine distribution. and so today it's going to be an interesting moment because for the first time in public, not face to face but zoom screen to zoom screen we'll see joe biden talking to an elected republican. he's meeting with the national governors association. executive board. we don't know just how many of the republican members of that board are participating but we know larry hogan, through a spokesperson, has said he's part of that discussion.

this is part of an effort to go about the work of governing, that -- with a focus on the pandemic, of course. the economic relief that states are going to need as part of another round of stimulus. and so it will be very interesting to see the cues from any of the republicans who are participating, acknowledging that he will be the one making decisions. it's a message especially when he takes questions after that he himself can amplify as far as their concern level. when you see all these legal cases, you know, the biden team, up until now, has been celebrating just how lopsided the result is. but now when you see reports of michigan lawmakers coming to washington to meet with trump and what this might mean for the electoral college, it's entering a new phase in the biden team's view. >> that's what i'm wondering. this does feel as if we've gone from, again, embarrassing to, this is damaging. and is it possible they try this long-shot effort to -- i mean,

what is the biden campaign going to do if one of these republican-controlled state legislatures goes rogue? >> i think -- i wonder if there's even a contingency plan in that. this was not a scenario that's new. this has been reported on before the election. but i think no one even joe biden who has said he's not naive about what he's facing on the other side, perhaps thought it was going to come to this. even as they had stepped back from the idea of legal action, a few weeks ago, when it was first raised, i think one of the questions to be asked today is, you know, what happens -- don't you just need to send that message? perhaps they need to throw an elbow, as they say, to make this a little more clear because the patience strategy to try and stay above it all strategy may not be doing enough at this point when the president is not listening to it. >> mike memoli and carol lee, covering the most bizarre and consequential transition we've had in over a hundred years in this country.

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please stay home over thanksgiving so you're not celebrating new year's with me in the emergency room. >> the safest way to celebrate thanksgiving this year is at home with the people you live with and through virtual celebrations. >> we think of thanksgiving as a time of family and of love. and maybe some football. but this year, staying home is an act of love, too. protecting the people you care about, protecting your neighbors and community, even protecting strangers, is an act of love. >> welcome back. in addition to the warnings you just heard from governors and public health officials from across the country, as we said at the top of the show, it's the cdc itself that is today recommending against all thanksgiving travel. but for some, hosting a big thanksgiving dinner is not an option because many americans are struggling to put food on the table on any given night. we've seen record levels in unemployment this year. while we had some rebound in the

fall, the number of new jobless claims is back up this week. antonia hylton is in portland. this is another one, as -- antonia, this is a problem we see from coast to coast, no matter how wealthy or not wealthy a certain community is. >> absolutely, chuck. so here, i'm right outside the northeast emergency food program. and you can see behind me, they have volunteers here who are collecting meat out of this massive freezer here, bringing it into smaller containers and they're getting ready to start getting this food out. yesterday, oregon put a freeze on business into effect. and so tons of people, particularly in the food service and hospitality industry, have just lost their jobs right ahead of the holidays. so the program manager here, a.j., who is actually right here in the hard hat behind me, she told me they're expecting the lines to get longer and for

there to be more and more people in need right now. i spoke to her earlier this morning. take a listen to this clip here and see a little bit about what they've been seeing people experience in the lines. >> i think it's already tough, and it was tough going -- looking forward to the holidays. and now with another freeze in place, it's really difficult. and i think a lot of people are afraid. i think a lot of people are in a position where they just don't know what to think. they don't know what to do. they don't know where to turn. we have a lot of people who have never accessed a food pantry, a food bank ever before in their lives. i've gotten reports from some of my staff members of people who have actually been in the lines out here having panic attacks because they are so afraid of what the process is going to be

like. >> chuck, a year ago, prior to the pandemic, a.j. told me they were getting about 80 to 120 families who would come here, pick up pretty simple packages of food and then head out. pretty straightforward operation. as you can see, this has turned into a huge and actually pretty expensive operation. this is a freezer refringeerator. these were donated by an organization. right over here to the side, all these perishables. heavy emphasis on healthy food for people here. and cars are going to start queueing up over there and lining up around here. they see a 1,000% increase in need. because of the freeze on business, they are expecting to see another uptick over the next couple of days. >> especially no help coming from the federal government, state government coffers are filling up. these organizations sometimes are the only safety nets left for so many people. antonia hylton in oregon, thanks. when you go grocery shopping yourself, try to buy one extra

bag of groceries. take it to the food bank. just one. one extra bag of groceries every time you go to the grocery stores. it's what we do in our family if you can. however much you can give on that. but take it to your food bank. find out what they take. not all of them will take food delivered right now during covid but just think about that. one extra back every time you go to the grocery store. we're going to dig into what's behind the president's plan to withdraw troops in afghanistan and iraq. we'll get a response from a special presidential envoy. so n for colon cancer? because when caught in early stages, it's more treatable. i'm cologuard. i'm noninvasive and detect altered dna in your stool to find 92% of colon cancers... ...even in early stages. tell me more. it's for people 45 plus at average risk for colon cancer, not high risk. false positive and negative results may occur. ask your prescriber or an online prescriber if cologuard is right for you. i'll get on it! that's a step in the right direction.

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welcome back. just days after ousting the secretary of defense and installing several loyalists at the pentagon and just weeks before leaving office, the trump administration followed through on a move that they'd been signaling for months announcing the u.s. will be reducing troop levels to 2,500 in afghanistan and iraq by january 15th. both republicans and democrats have expressed concern about the decision, including mitch

mcconnell. take a listen. >> a rapid withdrawal of u.s. forces from afghanistan now would hurt our allies and delight -- delight the people who wish us harm. >> joining me is msnbc's senior foreign affairs analyst and former presidential envoy for the global coalition to defeat isis, bret mcguirk. i'm curious your take on this because this is what it looks like to me and i'm going to call myself a layperson on this, which is, it feels as if biden is really being boxed in here because it's not enough troops to do -- to sort of keep security at a minimum, but it's -- but then it's up to biden to decide either he's got to increase troop levels or totally withdraw completely. either way, the burden is on him. this is president trump essentially passing the buck and

not making any decision because by leaving a few troops, he's almost making the situation even harder for biden. fair? >> well, chuck, i think you boiled it down. thanks for having me on such an important topic here. but you nailed it. this is about sabotaging the incoming commander in chief. there's no military reason to make this decision. there's no diplomatic reason to make this decision. it is clearly a decision that's not really approved by the chain of command, our uniformed command. it's a decision that was called out by the nato secretary-general, the former prime minister of norway, jen stoltenberg who has been careful for four years never to criticize the trump administration. he said the price here could be very high. so it's not arbtraesh. it's totally driven by a desire to sabotage the incoming president and tie his hand and limit his options. >> so let's talk about afghanistan first in this sort

of -- well, let me ask you. what is the state of the peace deal between the taliban and the afghan government? >> well, it's a great question because i think sometimes the afghanistan debate gets wrapped into endless wars. we've been there for 19 years, and it's time to leave. and that is a sentiment i very much share. but i think it's important to look at the situation we have right now. so we have about 4,500 troops in afghanistan right now. there's a total of 12,000 foreign troops there, so most of the troops there are allies, our partners from nato. u.s. forces are not fighting, or not taking casualties. we've taken no casualties since february. no americans should be fighting and dying in afghanistan, but we have interest there to make sure the entire state does not simply collapse. we have interest to make sure that al qaeda and isis cannot resurge. and the entire idea had been, and this is something that actually vice president biden very much favored. you want to get to a position

where we have a very small minimum presence that's sustainable and we're not taking on significant risk to our troops and personnel. but this is not just sabotaging the incoming commander in chief. it puts our forces there now at greater risk because what the acting secretary of defense said, chris miller, our policy and missions remain the same even as we're cutting our force in half. your asking your troops to do the same thing with half the number of people. that's incoherent. that means they'll be at more risk. less forces to do force protection and to do the mission. this is really reckless. and, again, we have 65 more days here. who knows what else president trump will do in his outgoing days. but i just think this is risky, unnecessary and it seems designed to sabotage the incoming team. >> is it inevitable now that you expect the other members of the coalition to also cut their troop levels in half or just pull out completely? i mean, if the united states is

doing what it's doing, i would assume a whole bunch of other countries are going, we're only here because they asked us to be. if they're not in, we're not in. >> you know, chuck, i helped build a coalition, i helped lead a coalition and maintain a coalition. and when foreign countries in those capitals make the decision to send their men and women over somewhere with us, it's incumbent upon us as the leader to consult them and let them know what we're doing and not to make major decisions without their input. that's what's happened here. jen stoltenberg, the very careful, careful secretary general of the -- of nato said we intend to stay. and he has talked about the risk here. so i'm hoping that our coalition partners can hold the line for another 65 days, but, again, this gets back to something you've been talking about all week about the need for this transition to start because our military commanders should be in consultation now with the

incoming team. this is just essential. and every day that goes by, not only our country, but our people overseas are at risk. so every day that goes by, we take on more risk, and it's just a troubling picture as you've been covering throughout the last hour here. >> yeah, it is, brett. i don't know -- i wish the picture were better, and it just feels as if the longer this goes on, the worse it -- it is sort of like every day extra this goes on is exponential in the problems it's causing. and yet, here we are. anyway, bret mcguirk, as always, sir, thank you for coming on and sharing your expertise with us. >> thanks so much, chuck. up ahead -- seven score and 17 years ago. abraham lincoln delivered the gettysburg address. the deep divisions in the country now versus then, next.

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i had all sorts of ideas in my head about this day a few days ago, maybe even thinking we should all just read it and digest it. i think we could all use it. let me put up a few excerpts. i feel as if joe biden may not have a case but to quote this quite a bit in his first inaugural. >> i think that is exactly right. any time that anyone has ever said have we ever been more divided, go back to 1860 or 1863. a time when the country was so divided it was in a civil war. this is so much in the spirit of

the gettysburg address, we always do after a crisis. we did after a civil war, and every time that happens it is a new birth of freedom. african-americans gained their citizenship. equal rights at least on paper. after world war i we gave the vote to women, at least guaranteed it. many black women could not vote until the 1960s. after world war ii people game more serious about civil rights laws in the country. so the most american thing to do is to go through a crisis, survive it as we have this one, and a year ago i have to tell you, chuck, that i was not so sure we would be in a full democracy by the year of 2021. we have been through a crisis. so go through a crisis and have the president unify us, that is a constant, and be a stronger nation than in ever before.

>> well, you have a little more optimism than i do right now and it is nice to have. in some ways i think when you hear it i think you think of covid as the background music here, it is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave devotion. look, this is not a perfect parallel here, but i feel like the virus, this is a war against this virus that has divided us, michael. and absurdly so. to the point of, i mean are you kidding me, right? and yet the victims are those that have died. >> they are.

1918, 1919. wo woodrow wilson ignoring the pandemic. he never gave a speech on it or told people how to protect themselves. but he doesn't pit americans against each other. but they didn't say that wearing a mask is silly. that is something that donald trump has done and what remains for joe biden is to come in and try to unite the country and end those differences. very rarely in american history have we seen a president for four years trying as hard as trump has to pit americans against each other and ignoring a big job of the presidency which is the one job in the entire american government where the founders hope that this would bring americans together, not ran them apart. you know, michael, i have had some dark thoughts in the last few weeks. are we in the 1950s or the

1850s? you know where i'm going here. which is it? >> i think we're in the 1950s. if by that you mean we have problems that was around the civil war, but that depends on the eagerness of americans to come together and i think that depends on who is president. if you have a president that says "i'm going to be the president of all of the people even while i'm proposing policies, that some people may not like. >> michael, on this anniversary of the gettysburg address, i'm glad we took a few minutes to talk about. thank you for being here this hour, i'm sorry for the role that the country is in right now. let's hope we get through it soon. we'll be back through it soon on "meet the press daily."

you can also see me tonight. msnbc's coverage continues with katy tur after this break. cont katy tur after this break.

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good afternoon. i'm katy tur, it is 11:00 out west and 2:00 p.m. in the east. the white house coronavirus task force is warningover the unyielding spread of covid-19. but there is no formal