hi, there everyone. it's 4:00 in the east. as a country in crisis hurdles past 250,000 deaths and a president abandoning the fight against the coronavirus, consumed with the results of an election he lost to joe biden. even hampering biden's ability to clean up his mess when he assumes office on january 20th. joe biden and his vice president elect kamala harris, despite being ham strung are barreling ahead anyway. meeting virtually with governors across the country, working to better coordinate the federal and state responses to the raging pandemic. we're expecting remarks from biden and harris as well as a

q&a reporters. we'll bring it to you as soon as it gets under way. meanwhile at the white house the coronavirus task force is expected to begin a briefing any minute. the president not expected to attend. we're not expected to see or hear from donald trump at all today if you don't count the disinformation he's sending out from his tweet feed. the national daily death toll of coronavirus cases approaching 2,000. donald trump has no public appearances scheduled for today. his lawyers, if that's what we're calling them, are out in force today including what's being described as a dangerous press conference in washington rife with conspiracy theories and hair dye running down the

side of rudy giuliani's face. with trump still holed up in the white house, the narrow window we have as to how the president is spending his team, shows trump consumed by the vote, not the virus. in a revelation reported by the a.p., shows how he's spent some of his time. he's been calling local election officials on the phone, particularly two in wayne county michigan who initially refused to certify their county's vote even though it didn't stand a chance of being overturned. what they discussed isn't clear. one officials reported feeling overwhelmed, even stressed by the president's call. we'll talk more about that in the extraordinary aftermath that's still unfolding. what's significant now is that since trump placed that call more than 1,900 more americans have lost their lives due to the coronavirus. yesterday this country's

deadliest day in many months. it was tweeted, the president without a peep of complaint from his party has gone awol, leaving those in his charge to fend for themselves. what would happen to any military commander, the self-proclaimed war time president abandoning his post and undermining his successor's effort to stop the damage. we begin with phil rucker. also joining us dr. tyson bell, icu director at the university of virginia and eddie glaw is here. rucker, are we missing something? is president trump concerned with the coronavirus entering its most deadliest phase? donald trump declared he was a

war time president. is this what he's doing, pressuring and intimidating and working the phones to get local election officials to ignore the will of the voters in their states? >> well, nicolle, i don't think we're missing much here. it seems pretty clear based on our reporting, but frankly based on the president's utterances on social media that he is entirely consumed and has been for the last three weeks with the vote, with his loss in the election, with trying to overturn the results, with coming up with one tactic after another to turn this around. i mean, his efforts have failed in court so many times that now there's a public pressure campaign under way. we see it with his out reach to officials in michigan. he's reportedly invited the two top republican legislative leaders in the state of michigan to meet with him at the white house in hopes of getting them

to appoint republican ale elect. claiming fraud when there's no evidence of widespread voter fraud. this is the president's fixation at this hour, not the covid crisis. >> you know, eddie glod, each act is a scandal in its own right. abdicating his responsibilities as the leader of this country as the virus is inching up towards 2,000 lives lost a day and desecrating the very democracy he's supposed to be leading by ignoring what is a clear an d resounding election result from two weeks ago. it seems the two together have

blown the circuits of most people in washington. together they're too much. what do you think people should be doing in this moment where we' we're suspended in nonreality and joe biden has very deliberately by donald trump not been permitted to start working on a solution for when he assumes office. >> what we should be doing, i think, is addressing as best we can the growing -- the cascading crisis we're facing. i reached for literary images to capture this. a mad president is chasing windmills. we have to leave it as that. the thing that i've been trying to wrap my mind around is the lack of language around duty and sacrifice. how might we respond to this fact that close to 2,000 of our

fellows have lost their lives and the president is silent. woodrow wilson was silent during the pandemic of 1918 and 1919. he didn't speak publicly to the crisis. he was also tending to the facts of world war i. so we give him a pass. there's something about the silence to the carnage that has me in some ways confused and groping, grasping for language to describe what we should be doing, nicolle. >> you know, i want to inject science into this conversation. it seems that every time we go astray that's where we find solace, where we can find information. let me read this to you. the "washington post" writes that with 250,000 dead people

die but little changes. now more than eight months into a pandemic that shows no sign of abating, it's become clear that although close experiences can covid-19 do change attitudes, many americans still to their original notions no matter what they see. it seems like the inability to convince the country to take care of their neighbors, take care of their grandparents, take care of poeople who don't have the luxury of working from home, we exceeded the death toll that dr. fauci and dr. birx predicted by more than a little. it seems that there is still -- i went through every state's covid restrictions last night. there are very few states that are doing anything that could be

described as a shutdown. what is the cost or toll of the human variable of not being willing to make sacrifices to be able to protect each other? >> i think every patient we see in the intensive care unit at the university of virginia can serve as an example. we get to know their families, their loved ones, their regrets and what they're worried about. a lot of what we see is the anger, frustration, the sorrow in everything that's the fall-out of what i wouldn't characterize as an inability to get the message across. they're not even trying. the administration has told us we can't control this and they're taking a step back. we're seeing what happens when you let the virus run out of control. a couple weeks ago we could have got away with tighter restrictions. at this time we have to consider lockdowns and something like this has to come from the top

and we're not getting that. >> dr. bell, we know that donald trump was enamored by the concept of herd immunity. it was what his hand picked medical adviser dr. atlas was attracted to and talking about on the television shows in which he appeared before donald trump tapped him. are we in essence acting as though that's our strategy when you see the rallies that donald trump had with people packed in, not wearing masks, when you see people ignoring some of the warnings about gatherings? what is it? what are we doing right now as a country? >> unfortunately that seems to be the case, the way the administration has basically ignored many of the public health guidelines we're supposed to be adhering to in order to keep everyone safe. when we're not doing these things we're seeing the virus

run rampant across the country. it's unfortunate dr. atlas has the platform he has. there's no medical professional that believes in his concept of herd immunity. what we have to do is wear masks, socially distance -- >> i'm sorry, dr. bell. let's listen. vice-president elect harris has taken the podium after they just finished meeting with governor's association. >> about opening schools and opening our economic responsibly. i have served in state and local government. i understand the critical role our governors play. they'll have partners in the white house on january 20th. as governor herbert said, when the states are successful, the country is successful. our message to our governors and

to all of our nation's state and local leaders is simple. president-elect biden and i will make sure you have the resources and support you need to save lives and help get our economy back on track. we will also make sure that our federal, state, local and tribal authorities are working closely together to tackle these challenges as effectively as possible. when it comes to this pandemic and the economic recovery, we're not democrats or republicans. we are americans and we will be there for one another. that's the kind of leadership the american people need and deserve and it's the kind of leadership president-elect biden and i will provide and it's now my great honor to introduce president-elect joe biden.

hello, folks. good afternoon. thanks for your patience. the vice president elect and i, as she has just pointed out, just concluded a video conference with executive leadership of the national governor's conference. governor cuomo, whitmer, ivory, baker, grisham, herbert and carney. it was a worthwhile undertaking. they had to make some really tough calls during this unprecedented crisis. we're incredibly grateful for

everything they've done and keep doing to keep their communities safe. unfortunately because of the lack of ascernment, until the head of the gsa says our team, the senator and i, are the likely winners, until she does that we don't have access to information we need to get. we're not able to deal with everything from testing to guidance to the all important issue of vaccine distribution and the vaccine plan to get vaccines. we haven't been able to get into operation warp speed. we'll take what we learned today and build it into our planning. the country is still in a crisis. there's a dark winter ahead. yesterday america reached another tragic milestone.

250,000 deaths, a quarter of a million people died due to covid-19. there are empty chairs at dining room tables that were just filled days and weeks ago with loved ones, family and friends, who laughed and talked together. to those families and friends left behind, jill and i send our love and prayers. we know like many of you do how tough it is to find purpose in the memory of a loved one you just lost. it will take time. you'll find it. you'll find it. you'll find your purpose as we're going to find our purpose for our nation as a nation now. i promise you that. i promise you we'll work together. there's a great meeting we had today. all the governors, no matter their political party, whether they're from whatever part of the country they represented, no matter their political philosophy shared a strong sense

of a common purpose. there was a real desire for partnership between the states and federal government. each governor emphasized we might be democrats and republicans, but we're americans first. they congratulated us for our win. what really pleased me was that governors made clear that beating covid-19 will require all of us working together as one country. kamala and i agree. we were deeply impressed with how much consensus there was on how to move forward on behalf of the governors. what we need to do now is how we need to do it. how are we going to do it? in what coordinated way can it be done? first, delivering economic relief. the lost revenue from covid is

devastating to state and local budgets. as governors all indicated, we've got to come together. the federal government has to deliver this relief sooner rather than later and with flexibility for the states to meet their needs. this includes helping businesses, schools, working famili families, unemployment benefits, continued access to affordable health care, all that is needed. states and communities shouldn't have to cut vital services. the second thing there was uniform agreement on, delivering a safe and free vaccine. the governors all acknowledge this will be a massive undertaking. one of the greatest operational challenges we'll face as a nation. one statistic that was raised by the governors it took eight months to provide 100 million

covid tests, eight months to provide covid tests. imagine how much more difficult it will be if we don't find a more efficient way to provide 330 vaccinations. put it in perspective. they made the point we can't wait. that's what the governors are raising. in the meeting we discussed the challenges that lie ahead in distributing and administering the vaccine. the governors talked about how getting doses of vaccines distributed is one step. we have to actually get vaccinations into the arms of 330 million americans. that takes enormous resources, people, product. we discussed the difficulty of that task. it's going to take time, coordination. it's going to take the federal and state governments working hand in glove, working together. the governors all emphasize we need to be clear with the

american people about what to expect. no false expectations. let them know what we anticipate. they all acknowledge this is going to take a public education campaign. we also need to reach traditionally understood served communities. black, brown, latino, native americans, small towns, rural communities. they talked about that in detail. thirdly, we discussed the need to help states with title 32 funding for the national guard. that's a fancy way of saying governors need to be able to get funding when they need to bring their national guard into play. the national guard has to play into this. it costs a lot of money. governors need that paid for. governors discussed the need for funding when waiving certain fema fees. this is a national emergency.

that's what fema is supposed to deal with. our view is that should be done when it comes to deploying the national guard or covid relief, that should be paid for. you know, something kamala and i will be very focussed on. fourthly, we discussed the implementation of a national mask mandate. ten governors, democrat and republican, have imposed masking requirements and recognize the need for universal masking. north, south, east and west. it's not a political statement. it's a patriotic duty. fifth, we discussed making testing more available and accessible. anyone who wants a test should be able to get one, period. finally while we focussed on the immediate needs to control the virus, the governors also raised and talked about how much we have to build back better on infrastructure and education and so much more.

this was not a one-off meeting. we committed. we agreed we'll continue to work and meet with governors on a regular basis. continue to seek their input and our covid teams will follow up and coordinate on the issues coming out of that call. some of them have competent people on their covid teams in their states. the bottom line we can do this. there's nothing beyond our capacity. we have to come together as a country. with this meeting along with others, it reinforces my view the unity the country is looking for. they 're looking for us to come together and deal with problems. that's what we have to do. that's what the governors talked about. it was pleasing to hear them. i want to thank you all and may god bless you all and those who lost someone you're in our

players. may god protect our troops. i'm happy to take a few questions. my boss will tell me who that is. >> reporter: thank you, mr. president-elect. i know you mentioned the economic impact and talked about the relief package you wanted. i was wondering if we could talk about things you'll be able to do as president, what will govern your decision in terms of the economy. i was wondering if i could ask what kind of framework you're thinking about as you decide on a treasury secretary. you said you wanted to punish china over the way they have been acting, whether that could include economic sanctions or tariffs towards china? finally do you think a strong dollar helps or hurts the u.s. as we're grappling with historic

unemployment? >> you'll soon hear my choice for treasury. i made that decision. we made that decision. you'll hear that just before or after thanksgiving. you'll find it's someone who will be accepted by all elements of the democratic party, progressives and moderates. secondly, it's not so much about punishing china. it's about making sure china understands they have to play by the rules. that's one of the reasons why we'll rejoin the world health organization. we'll rejoin on day one. it needs reform i acknowledge. we'll rejoin the paris climate accord. we have to make sure the rest of the world and we get together there are lines the chinese understand. we have to deal with this pandemic and plan for the next

one. the idea that viruses are going to go away is not rational. we'll recalibrate and set up the institutional structures we had in our administration, obama/biden and build on it. what was your third question? >> reporter: about the dollar, sir, whether the strong dollar will help or hurt and how you would like the federal reser reserve -- >> the way the federal reserve has been dealing with the dollar i think has been in a positive direction. interest rates are as low as they have been in modern history. i think that is a positive thing. it lends credence to the possibility of us being able to spend the money in order to generate economic growth right off the bat. i think it's been positive so

far. >> reporter: thank you, mr. president-elect. you have said if this transition doesn't get going, especially on vaccine distribution, that lives will be lost. how many lives do you think are at risk if the transition is stalled? >> you've heard the projections. if nothing fundamentally changes between now and the beginning of february, we'll likely lose up to 400,000 lives, another 150,000 lives. it's real. whether it gets to 360 or whatever it is, it's real. there is no excuse not to share the data and let us begin to plan. on day one it's going to take us time, if we don't have access to all this data, it's going to put us behind the eight ball by a month or more. that's lives. how many would be lost as a

consequence to that, i can't tell you. we talked a lot with the governors about their immediate needs. we're going to enforce the -- employ the defense reconstructive act to be able to go out there and dictate companies build and do the following things -- we need more testing, more masking, gloves. i asked the governors to let us know what their shortages are. we're going to move on day one. that should be moved on now. now. if it takes a long time to get this thing going, it waits. >> reporter: when you look at the way the president is handling this, his refusal to concede, what do you think is going on? in your view, mr. president-elect, what are americans witnessing here?

>> let me choose my words. i think they're witnessing incredible irresponsibility, incredibly damaging messages being sent to the world about how democracy functions. i think it is -- well, i don't know his motive. i just think it's totally irresponsible. >> reporter: are you concerned he may succeed and people will question the legitimacy of your administration? >> i'm not concerned about the majority of the american people. over 78% of american people believe it's legitimate. i just think it's -- most of the republicans i've spoken to, including governors, think this is debilitating. it sends a horrible message about who we are as a country.

>> reporter: thank you, mr. president-elect. thank you, vice-president elect. >> nice to see you in person. >> reporter: appreciate it. you have said that lives could be lost if you don't start getting briefings from the trump administration. here we are more than 250,000 lives could be lost. given that, how do you justify not taking legal action to get the briefings you say are critical, that you say you need? >> it would take a lot of time. it would take time. it's not going to speed it up considerably in my view. in the meantime i'm hopeful that i'm going to be able to get cooperation from our republican colleagues in the senate and the house, as well as the governors to build a consensus as to how we proceed. >> reporter: why not use every

tool in your tool box to get the information you say you need to do your job and do it effectively on day one? >> i'm making a judgment based on many years of experience of how to get things done with the opposition. >> reporter: do you think you would win? >> my judgment is we'll get further along by actually working with our republican colleagues now and -- because the time in which we would win would not materially change necessarily. it's still an open. it could change. >> reporter: you haven't ruled out legal action against the trump administration, against the gsa? >> we haven't ruled it out. >> reporter: given the death toll, more than 250,000 americans who have lost their lives, you said you would support a nationwide shutdown

recommended it. >> no let me -- >> reporter: you spoke to scientists -- >> it was a hypothetical question. the answer was i would follow the science. i'm not going to shut down the economy period. i'm going to shut down the virus. >> reporter: that's ruled out. >> i say it again. no national shutdown. no national shutdown. every region, every area, every community is different. there's no circumstance which i can see that would require a total national shutdown. i think that would be counter-productive. there are constraints in which the degree to which businesses can be open. for example, it's one thing to say that you can have in a state that -- where the infection rate is not as high, you can have a gymnasium open. it's another thing to say it can

only be open four hours a day with x number of people. the church i go to doesn't allow more than 40% of the people to come into the church. those are rational decisions. it's calibrated based on what the threat is. >> reporter: thank you, mr. vice president elect -- president-elect and vice-president elect harris. what do you make of the fact that the president is having these calls with michigan county officials amid his bid to overturn the election? also, michigan republican legislators at the white house tomorrow. anything is he doing that's making you rethink your strategy? what do you say to immigrant

americans who came to the united states looking for political stib stability and seeing all the things the president is doing? >> hang on. i'm on my way. that's not a joke. what the president is doing now is really -- it's going to be another incident where he will go down in history as being one of the most irresponsible presidents in american history. it's just out of the -- not even within the norm at all. there's questions whether it's even legal. it's going to be interesting who shows up in this call to meet with the leadership. this is going to -- we won michigan. it's going to be certified. we'll end up making clear

that -- they will make it clear that we won. it just -- i just -- it's hard to fathom how this man thinks. it's hard to fathom -- i'm confident he knows he hasn't won and not going to be able to win and we'll be sworn in january 20th. i just -- far from me to question his motive. it's just outrageous what he's doing. >> reporter: as he ups the things that he's doing, calling officials, is it making you rethink your strategy at all? is there anything he would do to say we really have to go to court now or you still waiting to see what happens? >> i'm not going to rule anything out or anything in. at the moment the strategy is not changing. >> reporter: if i could ask a question to the vice-president

elect? >> sure. >> reporter: vice-president elect harris, you talked about your state experience. is there anything you heard from governors today that made you concerned about vulnerable populations, especially as i talk to americans who say i don't have the privilege of working from home, i don't have the privilege of socially distancing in my home? >> as the president-elect shared with everyone, we heard a lot from the governors including that, including the concern that african-americans, latinos, native americans, people who live in rural communities, people who as groups of people have historically been under resourced and under served. there was consensus among the governors, bipartisan consensus,

our strategy should reflect those concerns to get the states the resources they need to get to the folks who have been overlooked and ignored. the president-elect has made it clear it's one of our highest priorities to support that. in the senate i led the racial disparities task force. that's something we will be incorporating to ensure that all people have equal access to resources. also, taking into account equitable distribution of resources based on need. >> let me add to that. one important thing to understand is -- we talked a lot about this and talked about it when i was running, speaking the nomination as well. that is the idea of the brown, black, asian american, native american communities are always the first ones hit the hardest and the last ones who are brought back. we're going to flip that around.

it's going to be really important to determine priorities based upon access to the information that's available, access to everything from the vaccine to other opportunities to be able to deal with helping the country, part of the country hurt the worst. three times as many african-americans have died than white americans have died from covid. there has to be a priority. i would like to know what this administration has in mind in terms of operation warp speed. that's what we talked to the governors about today. they talked about the communities left behind, particularly governor cuomo. it's one thing if the vaccine is sent to all the walgreens of

america. we got to make sure there's access for them. thank you. >> you've been watching president-elect joe biden taking questions from reporters after he and vice-president elect harris met with the nation's governors. so some news in there. we're joined by a handful of our favorite reporters. he said he's selected a treasury secretary, someone who will plo please the progressive and moderate wing. did not release the name. was pressed repeatedly about

what the president is doing. he said i think he's incredibly irresponsible and donald trump is damaging the democracy. said what he's doing is sending a horrible message about our democracy. the president-elect would not rule in or out legal action against the trump administration. the president-elect talked about how the inability to transition into the government he's going to lead has hurt their ability to step into the role of fighting the virus. he's had no access to any data about the pandemic. he's had no access to any data information about operation warp speed. mike memoli was listening. what did i miss there? that was a lot of news from the president-elect and

vice-president elect. >> reporter: yeah, nicolle. we have a great story on nbcnews.com about the frustration within the biden transition team about the gsa delay. we've seen over the last two weeks that the president-elect himself has been among those preaching patience. they thought perhaps -- stop me if you heard this -- the more you escalate this, the more the president might dig in. he's dug in any way. i encourage you to read that story. as usual, joe biden has said -- he's been using the term embarrassing. it's downplaying the impact for him, talking about what it means for president trump and his legacy. today he called it irresponsible and it going beyond breaking norms, this idea of interfering with the electoral college. what we're seeing is a clear shift in terms of the posture of the boiden team. they want to dial up the

pressure. as you heard the president-elect say and as we've been hearing from inside the transition, legal option is very much on the table, but biden also laid out the potential risks there, that it would take time. we're hearing that some of the legal team thinks there's no guarantee there for success. the other thing, the message biden is still trying to send, in terms of republicans specifically. today is a milestone. for the very first time we've seen joe biden speaking face-to-face with elected republicans. biden said that this bipartisan group of governors congratulated him heartily on his win. trying to reinforce the idea that the election is over and the end is certain to everyone paying attention. there's concern about the degree the trump team seems willing to tear this all down in the process despite the outcome. >> let me ask you something mike

memoli, bob bauer spear headed a legal operation that was ready to be offensive and defensive. it's been successful. i think the trump team is something like 0-28 in their frivolous lawsuits. it would appear based on reporting from the "washington post" the rudy strategy is something entirely different. rudy isn't confident in his legal acumen. the strategy is now political and embodied in this pressure campaign, both against the republican secretary of state in georgia who roreported that lindsey graham call and suggested he throw away legal absentee ballots. in this extraordinary call from the president himself that left one of those county alelection officials so stressed with

adrenaline running through her body she said. they've shifted their strategy. has the biden team shifted theirs. >> you're seeing an effort to remind the public that every time they lose a battle in court it reaffirms the fact that joe biden won this election and won in larger margins than president trump did in his election four years ago. i think that is also at the root of the concern over what merit the legal strategy in terms of the gsa issue would have for the biden team. there's no precedent for this. there's no precedent for dgoing to court to get an agency to affirm what the voters have made clear. the fact this is moving to a potential challenge of disrupting the electoral college voting process on december 14th is what's driving the urgency on the biden team. the other thing, the more that

the biden team is learning about where the pandemic is heading, the rising case levels, the dark winter as biden keeps putting it, there's less tolerance for abiding by any delays throughout this. that's where biden has been most forcef forceful. think back to 2008 when we were in an economic crisis during the time of transition from bush to obama. there was hand in glove operation. if anything, the bush team did more than they needed to to make difficult decisions to give the incoming obama team breathing room, even inviting obama to join president bush at a meeting of g-20 leaders. it was unprecedented corporation at that point. unprecedented uncooperation as this point. >> mike, thanks for spending

time with us. joining us how is former democratic congresswoman donna edwards and nick confessore. donna, president-elect biden was pressed to explain his claim that this delay in the transition, delay in acknowledging the outcome of the election will cost lives, will keep people. he pointed to the projections that tony fauci and other models that the trump administration has looked at. projects 388,000 americans will have lost their lives by inauguration day. pick up on what mike memoli is reporting. there's no movement in green lighting the transition. it's the access to the data, access to the stockpiles. he already said today that he will invoke the defense production act. he's clearly hindered in his

ability to defeat the virus and protect americans by donald trump. >> well, nicolle, with every day that passes it's increasingly clear how much of a barrier the biden/transition is facing by not having access to the data, to the agencies and to the people running those agencies. the president-elect was very careful in choosing his words. i'm not going to be so careful. this president is dangerous. i always believed if he didn't win, he would try to burn the house down and that's what he's doing right now. mincing no words, people will die in this interim period and i think it's really just staggering that elected republican leaders are still

fainting to be able -- to call attention to the president's obstruction and that he continues to operate and i think he's operating illegal. i believe that joe biden is right. that amount of pressure going through the legal system isn't going to change it. everyone should get to know the name of emily murphy. know her name. her wikipedia page will be changed forever as the person who stood in the way, obstructed the incoming president and the transition. as a result people died. americans died because emily murphy refused to do her job and donald trump is rewarding her for it. >> donna, i've never heard you this upset. do you believe that the incoming team is fighting aggressively enough against a president who has always benefited from the

asymmetry of his willingness and eagerness to be disgusting, to be corrupt, to be illegal, to appear that he doesn't care about a loss of life? do you think this fight is fair? >> well, it's my job to be upset on the outside. i don't think it does us any god for the president-elect, for the transition to do that. i think it's important to begin to ramp up the public pressure to do something. these governors in states know that the bodies that will be lost, the lives that will be lost will actually not be on the white house lawn. they will be in every single one of those states, all 50 states, in which hundreds of thousands of people will die. these governors know, republicans and democrats, that they need the help of the federal government, not yesterday, but today in order to make sure that their states and

the people in their states survive. i think it's important to begin to ramp up -- continue to ramp up the public pressure and the demand on this president. this president is operating unlawfully and dangerously and it's killing americans. >> nick confessore, there's some great reporting in your paper and in the "washington post" about what the president is doing. i think joe biden reminded us just now why it matters. it matters because they're hindered. they don't have access to the data about operation warp speed. joe biden will be what donald trump pretended to be or tried to play on tv. president-elect biden and vice-president elect harris will become war time leaders and will be at war against a virus that has taken as many american lives as most wars this country has ever been involved in. their massive effort will be to create and distribute the

vaccine. president-elect biden talked about preparing for the next pandemic. in just these small aside comments you're so starkly reminded of donald trump's abdication of the job he has and for some reason seems to want to hang on to, probably to avoid criminal prosecution. your colleague maggie haberman was tweeted about whatever you talk about the legal team around donald trump, it's down about 20 levels from that. you have some folks -- it's unclear how current or skilled they are on the law. they're out there raising incredibly unsubstantiated claims and in the words of chris krebs, the ousted homeland security official, one of the most dangerous 90 minutes of television ever. i think we should point out in fairness, we didn't show it, but rudy giuliani has hair dye

running down his face in a stream of sweat. it was ugly to look at too. what do you think this incoming team can do about basically a group of people so willing to take a wrecking ball to our democracy? >> nicolle, what is happening here is the last tool in the president's tool box for trying to stay in office and that is to simply use his power to he's control of the mechanisms of certifying an election that is over, that joe biden has won. and think about how we got here. they started by trying to make it harder for people to vote. and then the strategy shifted to stopping people's votes from being counted. especially the votes of black americans in big cities and swing states. and once those votes still came in, and showed that biden has won it, they have now moved strategies to simply saying it doesn't matter, just leave those votes out because we claim they're fraudulent, which they

aren't. and just certify the election in a different way. they're grabbing ahold of a function of government that in most circumstances we're not aware is operating because it is obscure and it functions smoothly. that is what we're seeing now from what is left of the president's team of lawyers. >> it is an unbelievable and totally accurate description of just how low they have gone. i want to add to the conversation tim miller, political director for republican voters against trump and a contributor to the bulwark. tim, on any and all of it, on the president-elect's press conference, notably his saying today i think for the first time that they won't rule out legal action and talking about the cost in human lives, american lives of not having access tolt data and operation warp speed and not being able to do what every other president has done. even george w. bush after the 2000 contested election was able

to commence with a transition. >> look, nicolle, i just wrote about this. so many of our former colleagues and allies in the republican party, are now ignoring all of this. right. they try to live in this uncanny valley where the rudy giuliani, with the hair dye dripping down his face, looking like a munster family member is making ridiculous conspiracy theories, comparing our democracy to that of venezuela, comparing our democracy to that of china saying that is rigged that the vote systems were wrig rigged. and these are the most serious allegation but they look ridiculous. to many other republicans and news outlets aren't taking it seriously when it is deadly serious. it is both ridiculous and serious. and if they are not held

accountable, if the republican senators who allowing this to happen right now, if the trump staffers who are allowing this to happen, are not made to answer for this, then next time it won't be so ridiculous. we're lucky that joe biden won this election clearly. because if it was much closer than this, we would be on the precipice of a very dangerous situation where they are trying to throw out votes. if it is close enough to throw out vote where's it would matter, this would be very dangerous. and the republican voters, the trump voters are going to expect in the future that these votes are thrown out and that only republican voters are counted. that is what they're starting to learn. that they have completely lost any respect or any consideration for our democracy. so, yes, obviously this is serious in covid and a national security standpoint but we have to look at the long lens and

make sure they could not just be allowed to be silent over there on capitol hill and hide from reporters and hope they could not answer this until january. they have to be made to answer for this. this is very dangerous, both now and also in the precedent for the future. >> let me just press you on this idea. not only are they not repudiating it, they are characters in the fiction. they are enabling the lie. i think they're a farther, tim, from just not condemning it. i think their facilitating the fantasy. i count every morning, there are only seven republican senators who have acknowledged the result of an american election. there are more foreign leaders than senate republicans who have acknowledged the result of an election. that is a denial and a subservience and a slavish and

anti-democracy and anti-american posture. so not only have they repudiated trump, they have green lit the sca scam. >> absolutely. and they all know. if you watch this press conference, which i hope that your viewers didn't, but if you watch this it is insane what they are accusing. they're saying that the biden campaign bought off the vote counting system and that the trump's victory was so great that that didn't work. so they have had to rely on a secondary scam of mail vote fraud. i mean you can't even explain this thing to people who live in the world of reality in a way that makes sense. and so, you know, the republican senators are not stupid. they may be cowardly, bordering on traitorous, but not stupid. they know this is not true. and they're all hiding from it and cowering when asked for it

playing this two-step game where they play along with it as you're saying. it is absolutely unacceptable. and here is the thing. while they play that two-step, the people that vote for them are going along with this. they think that it is true. they think that the election was really stolen. they're starting to believe that we're venezuela. think about the long-term consequences of that. there is no word that you could come up with that i would not concur with as far as their abdication of responsibility. >> unbelievable day and unbelievable moment for what is now our fragile democracy. my thanks to donna edwards, nick and tim miller. the next hour of "deadline: white house," we have a whole other hour of this starts after a quick break. don't go anywhere. we're just getting started. we're just getting started or more effective against pain than salonpas patch large there's surprising power in this patch salonpas

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let me choose my words. i think they're witnessing incredible irresponsibility, incredibly damaging messages being sent to the rest of the world by how democracy functions, and i think it is -- well, i don't know his motive but i just think it is totally irresponsible. >> are you concerned that he may succeed, that people might question the legitimacy of your administration. >> no, i'm not concerned about the vast majority. all of the polling has indicated, but the republicans who worry about it is higher. but over 78% of the american

people believe it is without question is legitimate. and i just think it's -- and i think most of the republicans i've spoken to, including some of the governors, think this is debilitating. it is not -- it sends a horrible message about who we are as a country. >> hi again, everyone. it is 5:00 in the east. that is president-elect joe biden just in the last hour with harsh words for the man who he will replace on january 20th. donald trump has going to the mattresses to try to delegitimize the victory with a gang of accomplices who are firing baseless lawsuits and sowing distrust of an election deemed the most secure in u.s. history. washington post reporting today, quote, president trump called the gop canvassing board member in wayne country who announced wednesday she wanted to rescindler decision to certify the presidential election.

in a message to t"the washingto post," i did receive a call from trump after the meeting, monica palmer, one of the two republican members of the four-member wayne county canvassing board asked if they discussed the presidential vote count, she said, quote, it is hard for me to describe. there was a lot of adrenalin and stress going on. there were general comments about different states but we didn't discuss the details of the certification. and we're learning that trump is going further than that in the quest to overturn the results in michigan. a state that joe biden won by por than 150,000 votes. after failing repeatedly in court to overturn election results, president trump is taking the extraordinary step of reaching out directly to republican state legislators as he tries to sub vert the electoral college inviting michigan lawmakers to meet with him at white house on friday. which goes right in line with

reporting from "the washington post" that the trump team efforts are more focused on sowing chaos than prevailing in any of the legal challenges. quote, giuliani has told trump and his associates that his ambition is to pressure gop lawmakers and officials across the political map to stall the vote certification it an effort to have republican lawmakers pick lectors and disrupt the electoral college when it convenes next month and president trump is encouraging that plan according to those who conferred with giuliani and spoken anonymously. but that outcome appears impossible. it is against the law in pennsylvania. and in choosing presidential lectors, there is little public will to purse sue such a path. rudy giuliani now at the head of the delegitimate effort was single the out as the target of a likely russian disinformation

effort and today he had a wild news conference filled with falsehoods on voter fraud even claiming that the fraud was nationally coordinating as hair dye ran down his face. the president and his cronies trying to steal an election is where we start this hour. john heilman is back, and executive editor of the recount and the post of the hell and high water podcast. also joining us jason johnson, politics and professor at morgan state university and msnbc and agreo contributor. and andrew weissmann, msnbc legal analyst. i want to start with you. is this a thing? i mean, we know they're not competent to execute it, but were they, is this possible? >> i think practically speaking it is not possible. first, with respect to what their doing in the courts, it is

really not a legal strategy. it is a political strategy. the court cases are all being thrown out or being withdrawn. it is one of the guardrails that is actually still functioning. and, you know, in the courts you need facts and you need the law. and they have neither. so you're seeing all of that being thrown out which is why i think you're seeing plan b. which is to go directly to the legislatures. but there is a problem here. which is that if they're not careful, what they're doing could violate both federal and state law. which is you could not tamper with ballot election results. and this is a place where they may be hoisted by their own per tard because the attorney general issued a memo saying that we're going to be able to go in and fix things now, the normal process was to wait until the election is over. well, where is the attorney

general now for people who are going in like lindsey graham and others who are going to be trying to tamper with officials. so this is where they have to worry. because obviously attorney general barr is not going to do that. but there is soon going to be a change in administration. so their representations will come with what they do in the very states, it is going to be quite risky. >> i mean, it is such a sad commentary that you even have to utter obviously barr won't do that. i mean, are you saying, though, that there are possible violations of the law in lindsey graham's calls to the georgia secretary of state and other efforts to intimidate or otherwise influence what electors do? >> absolutely. obviously the facts matter. it is important to know exactly what happened in that conversation. but there are federal laws that prohibit falsely certifying an election or tampering with an election.

and there are state laws. so you have both the future attorney general and you have local attorneys general who could be looking at this issue. and so if rudy giuliani and sydney powell and others are going to be trying to strong arm people, those kinds of representations are not just holding a press conference, where there is no -- they don't have to worry about legality, they could say whatever they want, but if they're going to take this into discussions to try to get people to certify falsely election results, to get to change the will of the people, they really do have to worry about crossing a legal line. and as i said, this is an area where the courts are guardrail that is actually holding up. and frankly, we're seeing that even with republican state officials who are not willing to break the law and are going to uphold democracy. but nicolle, as you said, it is

such a sad state that we're even having this discussion. because just a short time ago, this would be unmanageable to be having a conversation on air about this happening in america. >> yeah. i mean, and we've been talking all afternoon about how the republicans are doing just puts them right in as part of this conspiracy, to delegitimize what chris krebs, who was fired for doing a good job of protecting the election from foreign interference and called the safest election in our country's history. john heilman, i want to ask you about some interviews, steve bannon, before or after he was indicted and i know you him on tape saying that is the strategy. but you interviewed bill bauer

and they were on the offense and i wonder if they were as prepared for what this turns out to be which as andrew weissmann just said, a political and pr operation and perhaps delaying the certifications if they should prevail in any of the states an it would appear at delegitimizing joe biden's win. >> hi, nicolle. good to see you. those interviews both take place that you're talking about in october. long after steve bannon had been indicted but while he was out on bail. we talked on the night of the first debate. and i talked to bob after that, bob bauer after that. and i think it is sort of stunning. this strategy that rudy giuliani is pursuing right now with the preside president's assent and with steve bannon as the mastermind is something giuliani and bannon

started cooking up in october. a lot of things happened in this election year. we forgot some of them. i remember bart gilman wrote this story in the atlantic that caused in early october, late september, caused people to look up and say how does this electoral college thing work and it is the beginning the first time the public conversation the notion there is some fragility in our system that relies on concession. it is historically relied on concession on part of someone at some point, usually right after the election and sometimes it takes longer in the case of al gore and your former boss and someone saying we fought the good fight and the people have spoken and what happened if you don't have a concession and the electoral college which is a formality in our system, a perfunctory thing and now it is a arena of contest. that is what giuliani and bannon started to cook up in that time frame and steve bannon was very open about talking about it with me on camera at the time. what he was not as open about

was the reality which was that his public posture was we're not going to left the left steal this election. there is going to be all of these fakes votes and naked ballot and we're going to fight in every counting room but eventually we're going to take it to the electoral college. what reality was that this was a naked power play and behind the scenes what they were saying was we don't think the left is stealing this election at all. but we think we have power in state legislatures in the courts with the controlling the delegations at the house level that there was a way in which by exercising a naked power play, not a legal strategy, as andrew just said, not a legal strategy but a political strategy based on the raw exercise of power if they could delay this longer enough and look at december 8th when the safe harbor kicks in on the electoral college and try to get certifications knocked out and get some faithful electors and state legislatures to get involved and there was a way to

outright steal the election and they were very blatant in my mind about it. it is very clear as it often the case in trump world, they tell what you they're going to do before they do it. and the problem, and this is last thing i'll say, and we'll talk about the bob bauer thing, there are a profound concerns that are going to finish this period thinking this was a coup, an illegitimate election. but the big problem for the bannon roouds rudy strategy is that it relies on a close outcome. their thought was if trump loses the way that hillary clinton lost in 2016, in a few key states by very slender margins, you could create this chaos and you might be able to exercise the power, the kind of raw power they thought they have. but the problem is that is not what they got. they're running a play for a different game. so this is not a close election. so you look where they're trying

to run these plays, biden has won by such large margins, but they are not landslide or a couple thousand votes here or there and that is taken away a lot of the traction even with republicans that they hope to capitalize on think period, they just can't get anybody to take them seriously right now because the election was too decisive and too obviously the case that joe biden has won this election and the people have spoken. it is hard to run this kind of nefarious game plan they had in mind. >> you know, jason johnson, i think the dye running down rudy's face made it difficult to take him seriously. but you have rudy giuliani, who is reported by "the washington post" to be have the target of a russian disinformation campaign and has plenty of rumors swirling around him about criminal investigations and donald trump who has already been named individual number one in an investigation in the southern district of new york, you could imagine between the three of them googling what does

a presidential pardon get you. but the three men, despite being low lives, all three of them have done, i think irreparable harm to the democracy and to the beginning at least of joe biden's presidency. how does joe biden get that back? >> joe biden is going to have to do something that we probably haven't seen a president do since maybe the 1920s, after teapot dome scandals and issues like that. he, in addition to juggling covid and figuring out the economy, is going to have to push for a wholesale constitutional structural reform in the united states of america. this may be a bigger task than he's up for or bigger task than he expected. but i've been saying there throughout the campaign, donald trump showed america and the world that our constitution is not worth the paper it is written on. it really is only a gentleman's agreement between really rich gentleman and if they decide they're going to be rogue and

bandits than known of this counts. we're hanging by a thread. and that happens to be people that decided i'm going to follow the facts and the rules it is obvious that this guy won. but that is not a safe way to keep your democracy functioning. in fact, the court rulings don't say the guardrails are working, we're pushing the envelope of how this place functions. a couple of more people here, a few squared legislators there, a couple of judges who don't care about their reputation or having a bad name in history and you could see a state flip. if you didn't have democratic governors coming in and passing laws saying you can't have faithless electors, this could be done. the only reason we could have discussions about joe biden right now is because the autocrat in the office was too incompet ents to pull off this coup. so joe biden needs to look to the constitution and voting laws an push for structural changes that will prevent things like this from happening again. we can't have these kind of delays whether a country is at

risk. >> andrew weissmann, there is a sort of a simmering, would you call them, i'm from california so i think of fights in terms of tet onic plates pressing against each other that sort of burst and create a lot of damage when they do. but that kind of pressure is building between folks who think that donald trump should not be someone who is above the law. that he should be held accountable for the conduct described in the mueller report, which you were part of or that investigation that i referenced when he was individual number one and in campaign finance scheme or whatever else. where do you come down on whether this president should be investigated and/or prosecutors if the evidence takes us there? >> so i have really strong views on this. and i know that politically there are people who say we want to look forward and not backwards. but leaving aside whether that even politically would work, i

think this is a question about the rule of law. and i think there is sort of two buckets. one is if the president committed crimes prior to his becoming president, so it is shown in the manhattan district attorney's office that he committed tens of millions of dollars in tax fraud or bank fraud, then anyone else would be prosecuted and it really can't be the case that just because you become president it is somehow wipes the slate clean like a giant etch-a-sketch. and it is like you didn't do those crimes prior to entering into office. but i think more than that, i think let's leave that aside. if you obstruct a serious special council investigation, and you are not held to account for doing that, then what is the point of ever having a especially council or independent council. in other words, if there are no sanctions tor -- for doing that and it is not a criminal

violation and you're not going to uphold that, then you are really saying that the president defact yo is above the law and there is no point in appointing another special council to look into executive branch misconduct because you're giving license to that kind of obstruction. and i think we could all look at volume two of mueller report which is about the president's obstruction and there is ample evidence to support an indictment in that case. >> andrew weissmann, i wanted to ask you that question for days. thank you. thanks for starting us off this hour. jason is sticking around. when we come back, former president barack obama and in a new interview airing tonight here on msnbc is troubled about what donald trump is doing and how americans should be too. and plus the recounts is over in the georgia presidential race, spoiler alert, joe biden is still the winner. now the battle turns to the two

runoff elections that will decide who controls the senate and later for us, the cdc recommends against travel for thanksgiving amid a dangerous surge in covid cases. we'll have the latest on what to do to stay safe over the holidays. "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. anywhere.em, your body needs routine. centrum helps your immune defenses every day, with vitamin c, d and zinc. season, after season. ace your immune support, with centrum.

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term contract required. click or call today. the men have been taken where's guy? i think i'm his new pet. [ whimpering ] we have to save them. thunder sisters. thunder sisters! thunder sisters! [ gibberish ] [ gasps ] [ suspenseful music playing ] [ screaming ] tonight at 10:00 eastern, msnbc will air a special town hall with former president obama. it is called a promised land and it is hosted by our friend and colleague jonathan capehart.

in it he criticized donald trump for his attempted to overturn the election. listen. >> let's talk about some news of the day, mr. president. president trump and his allies in the states are doing everything they could it seems to overturn the will of the people. for instance, late wednesday night wayne county republicans filed affidavits to reverse their votes to certify their votes in michigan, the most populous county. and i've heard the word coup used to describe these types of efforts. is that hyperbolic or is our democracy really under a realistic threat here? >> look, joe biden is going to be the next president of the united states, kamala harris will be the next vice president. i have been troubled like i think every american, whether you're republican or a democrat or independent should be troubled when you start having attempts to block, negate, overturn the people's vote when

there is no actual evidence that there was anything illegal or fraudulent taking place. these are just bald assertions. they've been repeatedly rejected by the courts and i think i'm more -- i'm less surprised by donald trump doing this, he has shown only a flimsy relationship to the truth. i'm more troubled than you're seeing a lot of republican officials go along with it. not because they actually believe it, but because they feel feel intimidated by it and the degree to which you've seen some news outlets that cater to the right and the conservative view point somehow try to prop up these bogus claims. >> i want so see the rest of that conversation. i'm sure you do too. it is aired tonight at 10:00.

joining our conversation now is charlie sykes and msnbc contributor and jason is still with us. charlie sykes, i saw a lot of president obama's restraint in president-elect joe biden's conference today but where do you put your sentiments about what trump and giuliani and bannon are up to? >> well i agree first of all that joe biden is going to be sworn in as the next president of the united states. but that is not to minimize what is going on right now. there are three fundamentally unamerican things that donald trump is doing right now. and i think they'll have long-term -- the damage will be long-term. number one, i mean, first of all, he is the world's greatest sore loser. number two, we're finding out that he is in the midst of contemplating an authoritarian attack on our democracy. not in an abstract way but having the legislature over turn the vote of the public.

which is breathtaking. and number three, he's actively sabotaging this country during war time, our war against the pandemic. so whether you want to talk about the traditions of respecting democracy, whether we're talking about this slow motion attempted coup, which is not going to work, but which will de legitimate the election in the eyes of many or that he's directly sabotaging the efforts to fight the pandemic. that is an extraordinary moment. and the things that we've said in the last four or five years about donald trump, we're reaping it right now. we're reaping what this country has sowed over the last four or five years by putting someone like donald trump in the white house. >> i agree with everything you just said and i need to hear more. especially about what we're witnessing in an authoritarian attack on our democracy and i completely agree, what trump is

doing is sabotaging an incoming war time leader who will do the things that he thought he was going to like doing but it ended up being bored by trying to protect the people he represents by a deadly pandemic. who do you think is behind the fact that only seven republican senators have acknowledged the result of a two-week-old conclusion of the election. more foreign leaders have recognized joe biden's victory than republican senators. >> well, coward obviously. but let's just step back for a moment. this is the easiest possible moment for them to break with donald trump. i mean, number one, if there is ever a moment to put country over party, it is this. the lowest hanging fruit in american politics is recognizing the results of the democratic election and being in favor of the peaceful transfer of power, right. donald trump is a lame duck. he's lost this election. he's behaving like a crazy man.

so at some point republicans have going to have to say, if we don't break with him now, are we ever going to break with him? if you don't do it now, under these circumstances, are we really willing to be held hostage by donald trump forever, for the next four or eight years. because if they can't do it now, then when? >> that is an excellent point. jason, i'm old enough to remember that the excuse that republican senators like lamar alexander gave for not aligning themselves with the one republican senator who did vote with what he recognized was an abuse of power, mitt romney. was that oh, there is an election coming and they'll deal with it. so said election has come and they won't recognize it. i mean, what do you think the long-term damage is of all of the elected republican officials refusing to recognize the results of an election in their own country? >> nicolle, the damage is on the

rest of us. because this election, remember, was in an excuse for anything. first it is the reason that mayor garland couldn't be seated and that didn't matter for amy coney barrett. and now we don't need to impeach him because of the election but now you don't believe in the election. the core of this, why this will extend beyond donald trump being in office is because you have a group of republicans, i think this goes back to gingrich in the 90s, a large group of republicans at their core do not believe that democrats can legitimately lead the country, period. it doesn't matter what the math is. it doesn't matter what the numbers are. this doesn't matter if that person is black or biracial or joe biden or bill clinton, they don't think democrats would morally run the country. and there fore, the problem we have going forward is sort of what i mentioned before, in the same way that joe biden is going to have to say all right, could

we fix this election rule, could we fix this loophole or fix this, you're going to have republicans at state legislatures, we saw what happened in north carolina and in michigan, we've seen what happened in wisconsin. we're going to see republican legislators go to the same rule books and try to find ways that they could undermine democracy. they will try and allow faithful selectors to operate. they will try and find more obscure rules so this we don't have to listen to the electoral college. unless there is pressure by joe biden that said we have to look at the electoral college and the laws about handing over of information, we'll see this forever more. this generation of trumpists are not going to disappear. and whether he runs again or one of his kids, this attitude that democracy should only be in the hands of this family and this party is going to continue unless democrats fight it tooth and nail. >> jason johnson, charlie sykes, two of my most favorite people to talk to during those most extraordinary of times.

thank you. when we come back, among the worst surge in coronavirus cases since the pandemic began. dr. anthony fauci has some upbeat news for you. we'll show you when we come back. "deadline: white house" returns after a quick break. se" returns after a quick break. i guess i look pretty... ridiculous. [ chuckles ] no one looks ridiculous, bob. progressive is always here for you with round-the-clock service. just so you know, next time, you can submit a claim with our mobile app. good. thanks again for -- for rushing over. are you kidding? this is what 24/7 protection looks like. okay. -you smell like fish. -sorry. i was talking to jamie. at humana, we believe your healthcare should evolve with you. and part of that evolution means choosing the right medicare plan for you. humana can help. with original medicare, you're covered for hospital stays and doctor office visits, but you'll have to pay a deductible for each. a medicare

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help is on the way. which has two aspects to it. it means that we need to actually double down on the public health measures as we're

waiting for that help to come. which will be soon. we'll be getting vaccine dose news people at hard priority at the end of december. we're not talking about shutting down the country, we're not talking about locking down. we're talking about intensifying the simple public health measures that we all talk about. mask wearing, staying distance, avoiding congregate settings, doing things that the extent that we can outdoors versus indoors. if we do that, we'll be able to hold things off until the vaccine comes. >> that was dr. tony fauci moments ago with an optimistic message on the coronavirus vaccines to come. but reminding all of us of the importance of staying vigilant while we wait for them. as the cdc today warned against any travel this thanksgiving. citing this, quote, critical phase of the pandemic. cases are increasing in all 50

state and case trends are up more tan 100% in 15 states. coronavirus fatalities are spiking in several states and washington, d.c. so far more than 11.7 million americans have been infected and more than 252,000 souls have been lost. joining us now is dr. vin gupta, msnbc medical contributor and global health policy. it struck me in the two hours i've been on the air, tony fauci was the second official, the president-elect joe biden was the first, to say we are not talking about shut downs, folks. we're talking about macsks, social distancing and asking you not to congregate and almost pleading with what would appear to be a defiant public. >> good afternoon, nicolle. you're right. and here is the facts here, nicolle.

we're seeing here is -- and my institute here at health metrics and evaluation is for new projections that is expecting 478,000 americans will lose their life by march 1st if everything that dr. fauci just recommended isn't adopted nationwide. so none of this in this country or this city or this state we're doing the right things but across large swaths of the country we're not doing it or there is resistance, it just isn't going to work any more. the models if anything has underestimated disease burden. that is why you see this up trend in what we're now estimating is going to be the death toll here. the next two months are critical. >> let me show you what he said about the vaccine and talk about it on the other side. >> an independent body of people who have no allegiance to anyone, not to the administration, not to me, not

to the companies, that looks at the data and deemed it to be sound. now that data will be examined carefully by the fda who, together with a advisory committee, the vaccine and related biological product committee are going to look at that before the fda makes the decision about putting this forth for an emergency use authorization or ultimately for license. so we need to put to rest any concept that this was rushed in an inappropriate way. >> you know, again, dr. gupta, it is welcome news i think for every single american that a vaccine is first of all looks very effective and second is being rushed to the point where it could actually protect all of us. >> but again, there is another tacit acknowledgment of the damage done by the way the president has handled this. tony fauci there having to

reassure americans that it wasn't rushed for political purposes or otherwise. is that something that doctors are concerned about. there is distrust once a vaccine is available. >> the one question i've gotten a lot either directly for fr patients is will you take the vaccine and the answer is absolutely yes for the reasons dr. fauci enumerated. this is a independent advisory board that looked at this data and these are experts here, so this is been validated. now only by a scientific progress rigorous, on part of the pharmaceutical companies, they've paused studies and double checked to make sure nothing untoward happened end then there is an independent advisory group that is not compelled by politics and they'll put their seal approval before the fda said yes, there is going to be -- so feel

confident there is a scient based approach and all of the right things have been done here so why i what dr. fauci said is important we need 70% of the american public if not more to say yes give me the two shot vaccine or the one shot if it is the johnson & johnson vaccine. give us a shot here. that is all premised on good science underlying what is happening here and i think we all should feel confident about that. >> we've been talking for weeks and months, we talked about halloween, i'm going to ask you about thanksgiving and christmas. but what is sort of the doctor and hospital side of this? what are you bracing for if they don't heed the warn. i think seven governors said not to travel or convene offer thanksgiving. and the cdc asked people not to travel. if that is not heeded, what are the fear among doctors? >> i'll tell you directly. 44 states we're expected between

the months of december and january will experience high or extreme stress in their icu capabilities. what does that mean. you might have a bed but not a nurse or respiratory therapyist or dock to staff it. you put the supply chain limitations are people. so that is the big concern. we're not going to have enough staff to care for critically ill americans. that is the big concern. >> dr. gupta, it is always great to talk to you. thank you for spending some time with us today. it is great. when we come back, the center of american politics right now is moving to georgia. the state is about to certify a historic victory there for joe biden. while huge sums of money are flooding into the two runoff elections that will decide control of the u.s. senate. that story is next. that story is next

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soon people decided to put all that value into a piece of paper, then proceeded to wave goodbye to value, printing unlimited amounts of money as they passed the buck to the future. that's why it's time for digital currency and your investment in the grayscale funds. go digital. go grayscale. georgia has completed his hand recount of the ballots cast in the presidential race there. the results will reaffirm joe biden's historic win and pave the way for secretary of state brad raffensperger to certify the results tomorrow. however donald trump continues to bash georgia officials even republican ones. it is all happening as the political attention of the country turns to the states two runoff contests attracting

enormous amounts of money on both sides. joining our conversation, eugene robinson from "the washington post" and msnbc political analyst and erin haines, also an msnbc contributor. eugene, on it all. on georgia, on this president, on the president-elect. any and all of it, your thoughts? >> well, it is just outrageous. i just want to talk about how outrageously ra outrageously racist what donald trump is doing now and what the republican party is acquiescing and and actively supporting aiding and abetting. this is out of the jim crow playbook. they're trying to disenfranchise hundreds of thousands of mostly african-american voters. in milwaukee, in detroit, in pittsburgh and philadelphia, the cities that are so concerned

about in pennsylvania, in the state of georgia where there was good black turnout, and in the atlanta area in savannah. this is the kind of thing that they try to throw out the votes, trying to disenfranchise hundreds of thousands of black voters. and look, donald trump is a racist. it is not breaking news. but the fact that the republican party in its entirety with a few exceptions like secretary of state raffensperger, the republican party is going along with this. and acquiescing and saying, oh, well, the president has ever right to pursue every legal option and refusing to stand up to this nakedly racist tactic. and serious attempt to get black voters thrown out, it is just outrageous and disgusting and shameful. and it is something that we should not just look past.

and we should never forget, i think. i mean, maybe, i've always thought that it would be good for african-americans if both major parties really competed for our votes. it would be good for the community. >> yeah. >> and maybe some future republican party will do that. but these republicans are -- are abdicating the right to even pretend to do that any more. because of the way they're acting right now. it is just shameful. >> you know, and erin, i've said this to tim miller earlier, i think it is more than republicans going along as eugene said or tim said staying silent. it is more than that. it is not that passive. because what donald trump is doing is swinging an ax at the election, swinging -- taking a knife to large chunks of the electorate and doing what eugene just said, saying your votes don't matter. we'll just get rid of them because then we could do better.

it is a such de-evolution of where things were even two years ago. this is all of this flag rantly disdainful disenfranchising african-american voters out in the open. how do you put that toothpaste back in the tube when no one in the republican party is condemning it or even calling it what it is? >> yeah, listen, it is never too late to reject the politics of voter suppression, nicolle. and let me say, this is not about the legitimacy of this election. we know that president-elect joe biden didn't even need georgia at this point to win the state. but my home town, my home state has recertified those election results and is affirming the outcome of this election. but what this is about, to yo--o

eugene's point is disenfranchising black and brown americans. this matters not for the current presidential election, it thmatters because georgia is in the midst of a runoff. we know that disinformation has kept people and this is what disinformation looks like in the 21st century. the psychological potential chilling effect of showing people that if you cast your ballot, it will be called into question. maybe it will not count. what does that say to people when you are asking them to show up again? the thing about georgia is that while it the birthplace of the voter suppression and voter i.d. laws meant to keep people from the ballot box, partatiparticul older people, poor folks, it's where congressman john lewis made his home for decades and where the seat from which he governed and urged people and reminded them of the importance of the vote and so both of those

dynamics are at play in my home state and just as voter suppression is potentially a factor that can keep people away from the poles, it's something that galvanizes the people know what's at stake and maybe more motivated by efforts by folks that would attempt to keep them from the ballot box in the midst of a pandemic. >> that's the dynamic to watch how this could very easily bo boomerang on republicans not just in a senate run off year but midterm year or presidential year, i think you're right about that. eugene, erin, thank you for spending time with us today. when we come back, saving time as we do every day to remember lives well lived. o eveo remember lives well lived. with less of the sugar you don't. [grunting noise] i'll take that. woohoo! 30 grams of protein and 1 gram of sugar. ensure max protein. with nutrients to support immune health.

a firefighter from ohio was a walking, breathing charles that quote no one is useless in this world who lightens the burdens of another. that is just who don was. after september 11th, he went to new york to help after hurricane katrina, he went to new orleans to help and just in his own community, lieutenant bushane gave every ounce of his being to make life better for others. he was a father to 11 including four whom he and his wife michelle adopted several years ago.

one of them needed a life-saving liver transplant at the time. according to wfmj, michelle took don to the hospital last week because he wasn't feeling well. four days later, he was unresponsive. michelle's last conversation with her husband was over zoom. she told him how much she loved him, how much she missed him and how much she couldn't wait to see him again. don responded to the love of his life in sign language, i love you is what he signed. a few hours after that, lieutenant boshane passed away and michelle, her beautiful family and the entire warren, ohio community will leave you with another dickins quote, the pain of parting is nothing to the joy of meeting again. until then, you will all be in our thoughts. we will be right back. our thoughts we will be right back.

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thank you so much for letting us into your home. my friend and colleague ari m starts right now. >> no spending case can overturn the election. team trump lost 19 different cases on this. there are 11 left. they face steep uphill battles but remember, if trump were to win any cases as we've reported, they are on such narrow issues, they don't check the outcome of the race. there are as speblpects that ma and some are ridiculous is pressing on with the approach that ensures more losing leaning into an approach that