loyal base because they need all those core conservative supporters to come back out for them. and, again, saying the president -- you know, bucking the trend and not echoing his false narrative, you know, could alienate those core supporterie core supporters. >> greg bernstein who does great work for the "atlanta journal-constitution" in georgia, thank you so much for that. >> thanks for having me. >> all right, i am ending early tonight because it's a big night here at msnbc. that is "all in." "the rachel maddow show" starts now with the one, the only rachel maddow herself back in the anchor chair. good evening, rachel. so great to see your face. >> thank you so much. i'm not actually in the anchor chair. i'm just kind of floating here in space in my office, but it's close enough. thanks for being so nice the whole time i was gone. it's been really good texting with you and keeping in touch, my friend. >> so glad you're good. >> all right, thanks. all right, and thanks to you at

home for joining me this hour in my home. i know that this shot looks a little bit weird. and if you think i'm looking unwell or pale or feverish or something, i am happy to tell you that i'm actually physically fine. it's just that i'm not that pretty. and as richard nixon learned the hard way in his first debate against jfk, makeup actually is a good idea, even a necessary idea when you are going to be in front of a tv camera. the problem is, i don't know how to put on makeup. i don't use it in my regular life. i don't know how to do it professionally, and there's nobody here to help me because i'm still in quarantine. i am almost done with quarantine, if all goes well, but i am following the guidelines, and that means it is still just me here alone. and so, this is what you get! this is the best i can do. so, i'm not going go on about this at great length. we have a lot to get to tonight, tons of guests and a lot of

news. but before we jump into all that, i just want to tell you what happened to me, in the hopes that you might take it on as something that might be helpful for thinking about you and your own family. okay, so, if you know anything about me off of tv, if you know me personally at all, then the foremost thing you probably know about me is that i am in love. susan and i have been together for more than 21 years. it was love at first sight. that has never waned. she is the center of my universe. and it's not even like she's the sun and i'm a planet. it's more desperate and pitiful than that. it's more like she's the planet and i'm the satellite up there -- hold on, something's making a noise. i'll be right back. see, i'm at home. i have to do this myself. something's going wrong. i'll be right back.

don't turn the camera off. i'll be right back, i swear. hold on. just stay there. told you, it's just me. there's nobody i can ask for help when something is going on. i can't stop it. okay. now you're going to see how a person does this, macgyvers this at home. there's the way i can hear the control room. put this on back here. hold on. i told you. this should work. oops. sort of worked. here's the microphone. put this on back here so it's not too distracting. this is how the sausage is made. all right. is that good? okay. so, where was i? cable on my shoulder. yeah, i think the cable might just stay on my shoulder, guys.

i'm not sure there's anything i can do about that, guys. is that better? all right? so, as i was saying, i'm in love! and susan really is the center of my universe. and the way that i think about it is not that she is the sun and i'm a planet that orbits her. that would give too much credit to the other planets. it's -- i think of it as a much more pitiful thing, that she is the planet and i am a satellite and i'm up there sort of beep, beep, beeping at her and blinking my lights and trying to make her happy. she really is -- i am one of the lucky people on this earth who has a life like that. she is the center of my life. she is the organizing principle of my life. my relationship with susan is the only thing at the end of the day that i would kill or die for without hesitation. and susan has been sick with covid these past couple of weeks. and at one point, we really thought that there was a possibility that it might kill her, and that's why i've been

away. susan tested positive two weeks ago. we separated from each other that day, because i tested negative that day, she tested positive. so, she and i have both been alone since then while we have -- i've continued to test. i've stayed negative. and she has not only been positive over this time, she's gotten sicker and sicker, while i tried to care for her while still staying physically apart from her. and the bottom line is that she's going to be fine. she is recovering. she's still sick, but she's going to be okay. and we're not scared anymore like we were. but it really didn't feel like it was going to go -- it was going okay at the outset. and i mean, like, i'm -- warts and all, right? i'm willing to show you all of this. i don't know you at home, except through this medium, but just believe me, whatever you have calculated into your life as acceptable risk, as you know,

inevitable risk, you know, something that you're willing to go through in terms of this virus, because statistically, hey, probably it will be fine for you and your loved ones, i'm just here to tell you to recalibrate that. frankly, the country needs you to recalibrate that, because broadly speaking, there's no room for you in the hospital anymore. and so, we've got more people in the hospital right now than we've had since the beginning of this epidemic. it's gone up 50% in two weeks? right? there isn't room for you in the hospital anymore, broadly speaking. so, for the sake of your country, you really can't get sick and need to go to the hospital right now, and the only way to ensure that is to ensure that you do not get infected. but please, just also know that whatever you think of your own life and however much risk you are willing to take on for yourself, that's not how this works. what you need to know is that whoever's the most important person in your life, whoever you most love and most care for and most cherish in the world,

that's the person who you may lose or who you may spend weeks up all night freaking out about and calling doctors all over, all over the place and over and over again all night long, trying to figure out how to keep that person breathing and out of the hospital. just don't -- whatever you're doing, however you calibrated risk in your life, don't get this thing. do whatever you can to keep from getting it. for thanksgiving next week, you really are going to have to just have it at home without people coming over. and yeah, that's going to suck, but that is going to suck so much less than you or somebody in your family getting this and getting sick. trust me. and i think i know you well enough because i know me well enough. i'm guessing that you might be willing to risk yourself, right? especially after all these months and all of this time. it's so frustrating, right? i would have done anything.

i would have moved mountains for it to have been me who was sick these past couple weeks instead of susan. i still would give anything for that. but this thing does not give you that choice. you can't say, i'm willing to just get it myself and play the odds. you don't get that choice. it won't necessarily be you. it will be the person you most care about in the world. and how can you bear that? and all you can do to stop that is move heaven and earth to not get it and to not transmit it. it is just -- again, i'm not going to go on about this at further length. i will just tell you personally, this thing is scary as hell, and whatever you've been willing to do to risk getting it, don't. just don't do it. so, that is what's been going on with me. my close contact is susan. i've been quarantining because of my exposure to her.

i am negative. she's still sick but getting better. my quarantine ends soon. i'll be broadcasting like this until it's safe for me to be around any of my co-workers again in the future, all right? okay. tonight we're going to be talking with the former fda commissioner, david kessler. he is co-chair of the advisory group on covid for president-elect biden and vice president-elect harris. he's been briefing joe biden on the issue since march. he knows what joe biden knows about the subject. he knows what joe biden understands about this, how he thinks about it, how he learns about it, what he values within this subject matter. i'm really excited to talk with david kessler. he's going to join us live in just a moment. the biden/harris procession takes place and he has picked a treasury secretary and will announce that next week. and i say the biden/harris transition is proceeding, but formally, there still is no

transition effort from the lame-duck trump administration toward the incoming biden/harris administration. president-elect biden today actually told reporters that it's an open question. it's still a possibility that he might sue the trump administration to force them to start the transition process so the biden folks can start the process of getting background checks and security clearances and starting to meet with the outgoing staff at the agencies they are going to be taking over. i'll also tell you that former president barack obama today had some strong words about the transition not yet happening and some strong words about what president trump is trying to do to pretend like he didn't lose the election. former president obama made these remarks in an incredible long-form interview with our jonathan capehart today. that interview, the full obama interview, is going to run as a special right here after me this hour, 10:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc. so after i'm done, you'll want

to stick around for that. but let's talk now for a little bit about the insanity that president trump is pursuing right now in michigan. president trump started off his re-election campaign with actual staffers in charge of potential post-election day litigation. those guys, including his deputy campaign manager, they're not running this. then he put a different guy in charge, david bossie, who is not a lawyer. he put him in charge of post-election day litigation, but he is no longer running this either. because, somehow, a hell mouth opened in the crust of the earth, and despite all those other people supposedly being in charge of post-election day litigation, it was rudy giuliani who emerged from a belching fire hole under foot, and we learned that he, fresh off getting the president impeached, fresh off the failed hunter biden russian intelligence operation he tried to run in the campaign, he, of all delectable souls, would be running the president's legal strategy from here on out, which has been super pretty ever

since, just like we saw today. and honestly, with not even his campaign and not even his sort of hand-picked political henchman nonlawyer running this -- with giuliani running this, honestly, maybe that means that this is over. the trump and giuliani efforts to overturn the election with weird little lawsuits, those lawsuits are failing by the dozen now. the latest loss was tonight. a trump-appointed federal judge -- trump appointee in georgia -- blocked their efforts to stop georgia from certifying their election results tomorrow. there was a statewide audit in georgia that was completed tonight. it did not change the georgia results at all, the secretary of state saying it didn't change the results one thimble. those georgia results will be certified by 5:00 p.m. tomorrow, despite a lawsuit by trump and giuliani, trying to stop that certification. results will be certified by 5:00 p.m. tomorrow, friday. then the governor of georgia

will certify georgia's biden electors for the electoral college the day after tomorrow, on saturday, and that's that. the trump campaign has been trying these little lawsuits everywhere, but they've lost or withdrawn basically all of these lawsuits, in wisconsin, you know, in georgia, in michigan, in arizona. there do remain a couple of strange trump/giuliani lawsuits in nevada and pennsylvania, where in those lawsuits, i kid you not, they are just telling judges to negate the election, just throw out all the votes, throw the whole thing out, pretend there wasn't an election, and instead, have those states send trump electors to the electoral college, despite how the state voted. they're trying that both in nevada and in pennsylvania, which is just a remarkable thing, right? pretend the election didn't happen. we hereby declare that this election didn't matter. we think you should install trump anyway.

that's what they're trying. and they're being just that blunt about it. on the fox business channel tonight, one of the lawyers who's working with rudy giuliani, the one who said today that the whole election was a plot by george soros and cuba and antifa, today on the fox business network, she stopped even trying to keep up the fiction of trying to argue that trump somehow won the election. she really is just flat out now arguing that all votes are invalid, that the election is null and void -- we didn't have an election for president this year -- and trump should just be reinstalled in power anyway. >> let's start out right now with the president's path to victory here as you and the legal team see it, if you could give us just that canvas very quickly? >> well, yes, lou. the entire election, frankly, in

all the swing states, should be overturned, and the legislators should make sure that the electors are selected for trump. >> the election in all the swing states should be overturned, and the legislators should just pick trumpp electors and trump should be installed anyway, because that's the trump legal team plan, and that is not a plan! i mean, at least it's not a legal plan, anyway. that's something else. but today brought some new news, that even as the president's legal team, such as they are, is failing and failing and failing and failing at everything they're trying, melting like hair dye into the rivers of flop sweat, today brought news that maybe these lawsuits that they're losing, where they're losing all of them, maybe that isn't going to be their plan from here on out. instead, their plan from here on out will be that the president, himself, will bring the weight of his office, the weight of the

office he continues to hold, to bear on elections officials, to just try to force elections officials or pressure elections officials personally into falsifying election results and proclaiming trump to be the winner in states that biden actually won. first we had this news overnight that the president had personally contacted republican members of the board of canvassers in wayne county, michigan, where detroit is. the president personally getting in touch with them, encouraging those republican members of that board, encouraging their efforts to not certify election results there. the president, thus, personally leaning on local elections officials to mess with the resolution of the election in michigan. the president personally leaning on two county elections officials to get them to do his bidding. then, news this afternoon that the president has summoned to the white house the republican leaders of the michigan state house and the michigan state senate, right? this is as michigan heads toward

its monday deadline for certifying all of their results. the counties have now certified all of their results. the state is supposed to certify the results on monday. they want the legislature to somehow intervene and stop that process from certifying joe biden's 150,000-vote victory in michigan, to instead have the legislature declare that that didn't happen? here's how reuters reports it out tonight. "president donald trump's strategy for retaining power, despite losing the u.s. election is focused increasingly on persuading republican legislators to intervene on his behalf in battleground states that joe biden won, according to three people familiar with the effort." "having so far faced a string of losses in legal cases challenging the election results, trump's lawyers are seeking instead to enlist fellow republicans who control legislatures in michigan and pennsylvania, a senior trump campaign official telling reuters that the campaign's plan is to cast enough doubt on vote-counting in big democratic

cities that republican lawmakers will have little choice but to intercede. the campaign is betting that many of those republican lawmakers who come from districts trump won will face a backlash from their own voters in they refuse to act. the campaign believes the longer they can drag this out, the more they will have an opportunity to persuade lawmakers to intervene," said the senior trump campaign official. and this, of course, is a pipe dream, right? in a democracy, the winner of the election is the candidate who got more votes, not the candidate who seized control and declared that votes don't matter. but if republicans don't want a democracy anymore and they instead want to do it this other way, i mean, it's one thing to see the trump, you know, "star wars" bar scene articulate out loud their weird fantasies about trying something like this, right? but it's another thing for them to actually try it and for the

president himself, the president of the united states, to employ his own power as president, personally leaning on county elections officials, bringing state legislators to the white house to try to get them to throw out the election results and, thereby, keep him in power. they are actually trying that as we speak. now, in just a moment, we're going to speak with the official in charge of running the election in michigan, secretary of state jocelyn benson. she'll join us in a moment. before we bring in the secretary of state, though, i first want to add one more voice to the conversation who have a very interesting perspective on this. his name is jeff timmer. he's a longtime michigan republican. he's a former republican member of the board of state canvassers in michigan. that's the group of four people who will be charged with certifying michigan's election results on monday. he used to be one of the two republican members of that board. that board has two republicans and two democrats. mr. timmer used to be one of those republican members. now, mr. timmer has since become an independent. he is a strong critic of president trump now. he is a senior adviser to the

lincoln project and co-founder of republicans and independents for biden. but he's watching this closely and he's sort of sending up a warning flag for all of us. today he said this as a warning about what's going on in his home state with these efforts to throw out the election results. he said, "be alarmed, america. serious games are afoot in michigan." joining us now is jeff timmer, senior adviser to the lincoln project. he served as one of the two republicans on michigan's board of canvassers from 2009 to 2012. mr. timmer, i'm really pleased to have you with us today. thank you so much for your time. >> i'm glad to be here. i wish it was under different circumstances. i've never seen anything so crazy and so corrupt at the same time. >> yeah. well, it's -- i'm trying to get a handle on how dangerous it is. i was struck by you calling these serious games in michigan. it made me wonder if i -- i spent a long time talking with my staff today about this. should we see this as a game that we should worry too much about and we shouldn't sort of

breathe life into by covering this as a serious thing? or is this serious enough that this could potentially be a real way that they're going to try to effectively delete this election? >> luckily, we have clowns running the show. i mean, they could -- if they had chimps going into court, they'd do better than what giuliani and team is doing, and they'd be more fun to watch. but these people seem to have a way of failing upward. and so, i think we do need to be alarmed that we have clowns running the show, but they seem to kind of luck into things. and what's happening here in michigan is, they may be able to throw a wrench into the certification process. and now trump has summoned the legislative leaders, kind of like neutered pets to the white house, saying, "come here, boys, come on!" and the optics of them going and listening and participating in this couldn't be worse. but if there's no certification, there is going to be enormous pressure, even more pressure on them to certify or do something in the absence of this board

taking action. and that's what -- that's where things can get very dangerous, and that's why i'm alarmed. >> well, what about that state canvassers board, right? that is supposed to certify michigan's results on monday, now that the counties have certified their results. i know you served on that board, i believe alongside one of the two current republican members, alongside norm schinkel. do you know anything about the pressure that's being put on these members? >> from my understanding, the pressure is enormous. they're hearing from all kinds of people, asking them to withhold their vote, to abstain, to resign so that the board is inoperable, so that there is no certification. there is any number of things that are possible and any number of pressures being put on them. it wouldn't surprise me if the president has also called the members of the state board like he did the wayne county board. there's rumors -- i haven't been able to confirm that from either member -- they don't like talking to me these days -- but i wouldn't be surprised if

they've heard from the president themselves. >> the republican leaders of michigan's house and senate, as you said, are headed to the white house tomorrow to meet with president trump. you have criticized them for taking that meeting. i'm struck, though, that the republican senate leader, senator shirkey, was asked just days ago if the legislature might sort of go along with these fever dream fantasies about negating the election, overthrow the result, put in their own pro-trump electors, and he said very bluntly, that is not going to happen. how much faith do you have in him and in the house leader that, even with the president personally weighing on them, that they'll stand up and stick up for democracy? >> i have very little faith that they'll be able to stand up to this. there hasn't been a republican in the country that's been able to stand up to trump's nonsense over these last four years, and i doubt that either of these two can withstand the pressure, if it actually comes to a situation where the board deadlocks, where

the board hasn't certified, they haven't move in time for them to certify and the legislature is looking at the clock ticking. there is a december 8th federal deadline for certification to happen. and if it hasn't happened in michigan by that date, there is going to be enormous pressure on the legislature to take some action. and the likelihood of either of these two legislative leaders, who have been involved in nonsense like the armed protests at the capitol earlier this year -- both of them were directly involved in those instances. if they couldn't stand up to these clowns that showed up at the capitol in michigan with long guns, there's no way they're going to stand up to somebody like donald trump at the white house. they're looking at political futures. the speaker is about to be unemployed. he's term-limited. in january he's looking for a new job. so, ask yourself, i mean, donald trump is a very transactional person, and there's any number

of things that could happen to put pressure on these people. >> jeff timmer, now senior adviser to the lincoln project, previously served as a republican on michigan's state board of canvassers. thank you for helping us understand this. this is a stark tale you're telling, but thank you for helping us get it out to a wider audience. >> thank you. all right, now let's bring in the person who is in the center of the proverbial storm here, michigan's secretary of state, jocelyn benson. madam secretary, thank you so much for being here. i really appreciate you making the time. >> sure. my pleasure. >> let me just ask your reaction to what we just heard from mr. timmer there. he's a former member of the state board of canvassers. he is very pessimistic about whether or not the president personally might be able to find some way to personally intimidate, pressure, or entice people involved with the certification of michigan's election result to pervert it and to try to install him as the winner of michigan's election,

even though biden won by so much. what's your reaction to those fears? >> i think a couple of things. one, it's clear that the voters of wayne county and the voters of michigan have made a choice. and it's also clear -- notably, this has been one of the most scrutinized elections in recent history for our state and probably in other states as well, that even in spite of all that scrutiny, there's been no irregularities uncovered, no evidence of widespread fraud, and therefore, no legal or factual basis to challenge or disregard the very clear choice that the voters of michigan have made. and so we've accepted every county's certification of the vote and we'll be certainly expecting the state board of canvassers to do the same, which is their legal duty, very clearly stated in michigan state law. >> as i understand it, and i absolutely might be wrong here, but from my trying to understand this process in granular detail,

that monday meeting of the state board of canvassers, where they're supposed to certify the vote total, that takes place, i think, at the office of the secretary of state, at your office. is that right? and do you have any sort of working relationship, particularly with the two republican members of the board? have there been any conversations in advance of that meeting as to what's expected and what they're planning, potentially, what kind of pressure they're coming under? >> no. my office holds the bureau of elections, which essentially works to support the work of the state board of canvassers in many capacities as they have a very administrative role in observe -- you know, affirming different certifications and petitions and the like. and so, in this role, they have a very clear, and frankly, very narrowly defined administrative role to certify the results once the counties do so. there's really not a lot of wiggle room in the law there. and so, you know, i think my role as the state's chief election officer has been to focus on the facts, the data, and the truth, ensure that that continues to be made and those

cases continue to be made, both publicly and in all conversations, because again, i think the data's quite clear on this in terms of the vote and the vote count. and so, you know, i'm very confident that all elected leaders in michigan will, like i have, focus on the truth, focus on the data, focus on the facts, and make decisions accordingly that is particularly in furtherance of their legal duty under state law. >> i understand the underscoring there in terms of the legality, the legal underpinnings of what's required here. there just shouldn't be this kind of drama at this point in the process. >> absolutely not. >> michigan secretary of state jocelyn benson, thank you for helping us understand it and good luck. i know this is going to be a fraught few days. i appreciate it. >> thanks. i mentioned earlier that reuters' reporting from earlier this evening that the trump campaign's -- apparently, their current plan to try to throw out the election results and keep trump installed in power even though he lost, centers on their efforts now to try to get

republican state legislatures in two states to throw out the votes and send selectors to the electoral college for trump, even though biden won the vote in those states. now, as reuters is reporting it, those two states where the trump campaign is focusing are michigan, which we've just been talking about here, and pennsylvania. well, we'll tell you how they're trying to do it in pennsylvania, coming up, a live report from somebody fighting what republicans are trying to do there. that's all ahead. stay with us. to do there. that's all ahead stay with us

so, this is a big keel deal, and it's actually something different than we've seen in months. the doctor in charge of day-to-day management of the covid response at the cdc briefed reporters today. what? the doctor gave plain-spoken advice about what to do about thanksgiving next week, in the midst of this pandemic. you probably saw the headlines about that guidance today, the cdc's guidance boils down to this, very simply -- a, if you were thinking of traveling for thanksgiving, don't. and b, if you were thinking of having an indoor celebration of thanksgiving with anybody who doesn't already live in your house, don't do that either. very clear advice spelled out for very clear reasons, as much as it might be hard to hear. but while we hope that that clear guidance will have an impact on whether thanksgiving becomes a massively fatal catastrophe in this country this year, it's also just worth noting that the cdc did a

freaking press briefing, right? this is the first time they've done that in months. in previous health crises in this country, the cdc would do daily, regular press briefings. the trump administration strangled that in the crib. but now they've briefed the press today. is it possible that they're back, that they're being allowed to talk to the public about this virus again? could it be? well, i should note that the cdc director, robert redfield, was not part of that briefing. as far as we know, the white house still has their minders sitting on him. the "ap," you might remember, reported last month that the white house installed political operatives in director redfield's office at cdc to control the flow of information and to, quote, keep an eye on redfield. the white house literally installed a new chief of staff in redfield's office. they installed a new cdc chief of staff who is a person with no background in public health or medicine at all. as the "associated press" put it delicately, she, quote, seemed a particularly strange fit for the

nation's top public health agency, in that before the white house installed her as cdc chief of staff, her previous job was working as a publicist and talent booker for the cartoon network. that's who they installed as cdc chief of staff, to keep an eye on that cdc director. so, no, the cdc director was not in this press briefing today, but maybe that's for the best. the cdc did actually make recommendations to the public that were very clear. the cdc spoke on a matter of public concern and put scientists on the phone with reporters, and they took questions, and that's good! that's how things are supposed to run. and i always say watch what they do, not what they say. in this case, with the cdc, it is worth watching both what they say and what they do, because the fact that they did this briefing today at all is itself part of the news, and it's good news. maybe this is cdc starting to reassert itself as the trump presidency winds its way down

the drain. the weeks between now and inauguration day are going to be some of the worst weeks we have seen in this pandemic. we're going to talk next with the co-chair of president-elect biden's coronavirus advisory board, somebody who has been advising joe biden for months as this pandemic has worsened, is now advising him on what needs to happen in the weeks and months ahead. i'm really looking forward to this interview, right after the break. looking forward to this interview, right after the break.

dr. david kessler served as fda commissioner under president george h.w. bush, and then interestingly, he continued in that role under president bill clinton. he served, ultimately, during a very eventful 6 1/2 years in that post leading fda. dr. kessler helped speed up the federal drug approval process in order to more quickly deliver life-saving treatments, including for hiv and aids. he made huge strides in standardizing the nutrition labelling on packaged foods,

which is actually a very big deal. he made a name for himself battling big tobacco. the fda under kessler investigated that industry and uncovered that cigarette companies were deliberately trying to addict their customers. lawsuits filed by the states later resulted in a landmark settlement against the tobacco companies. that was worth billions of dollars, because of that research. now dr. david kessler is serving in a new role that has its own daunting challenges. he has been named as one of the co-chairs of president-elect biden's coronavirus task force. he's been advising biden on the pandemic since all the way back in march. dr. kessler told us today that on the first day he first started briefing biden on covid, there had been 86 deaths in this country due to the virus. today we are now at more than 250,000 deaths. and i should tell you, just a short time ago tonight, nbc news confirmed that we've just hit a new single-day record in terms of new cases today, over 189,000

new cases were added just today alone. it seems almost inconceivable, but it feels like we are on track to hit 200,000, maybe even 250,000 new infections per day soon, if things stay on this pace. joining us now for his first interview since the election is dr. david kessler, co-chair of the biden coronavirus task force, former commissioner of the fda. dr. kessler, it's a real honor to have you here tonight. thank you for your service. thanks for making time to be here. >> thank you for having me, and sorry what you and susan have been going through. our best. >> thank you. i need that. let me just ask you, dr. kessler, you've been in a unique position in terms of seeing joe biden learn about the pandemic up close, basically from the beginning, from march. can you tell us anything about what it's like to brief him, how good he is at absorbing information, the kinds of questions he's interested in, whether, what you're trying to

teach him has been sinking in? >> so, we would give him an 80, 90-page document that he would have before him. and this is dr. murthy and it was former surgeon general, and i. and it was very extensive epidemiology, vaccines, testing, very broadly based. and we would get to about 45 minutes into it and we would say, "mr. vice president, we're at our time," and he said, "i need to keep on going, this is very important." and there's all this staff around us. and you know, we're talking about mnra biology. and i almost felt bad we were taking so much time of his. but what i understood, what i saw in him, you know, the wheels

going on -- he was thinking about, what are the implications for governing, for the country, and most importantly, what effect this was having on people. it was extraordinary. we would sometimes sit there for two hours at a time. he's a very quick study. if you go back and listen to the presidential debates, i think he's probably the only president who will ever talk about a reproduction number. >> dr. kessler, you mentioned dr. vivek murthy, former surgeon general. you and he and the other members of the coronavirus task force -- i mean, it was such a relief to not see, you know, cable news personalities and, like, people who run pillow companies, like, all the other kind of quacks and liminal influencers that the president has chosen to listen

to here. but sort of after that initial relief, it has made a lot of us start thinking about what it means to have a president who takes science seriously, who wants to put science at the forefront of the decision-making here and who is not afraid to let scientists communicate the reality of what's going on to the public. i am thinking about what these next couple of months is going to be like and looking at those numbers and thinking about what our hospitalization and death rates are going to be like. do you anticipate, you and your other coronavirus task force members with the president, do you anticipate personally briefing and doing that kind of public communication as we go into what's going to be a real dark couple of months? >> absolutely. the president-elect very much believes in restoring trust, in putting science first, clear, uniform, evidence-based guidance. he understands that. and he understands that it's very important to help all states, not seeing them as red

states or blue states, right? he has enormous respect for science and expertise, and that's what he -- that's him. >> dr. kessler, i don't want to go into detail on this tonight, and i'd like to have you back to have a longer discussion about it in coming days, but i wondered if you could just give us a pressy right now, the short version of whether or not we should be scared and concerned about the lack of a transition in terms of handling both the safety assessment for potential vaccines and the planning for vaccine distribution. i feel like i have heard enough from you and your colleagues who have been advising vice president biden that i know that your thinking is far advanced on these matters, and it feels like your planning is far advanced on these matters. i don't have very much hope that the trump transition is going to turn on any time soon and that the existing work that's been done is going to be conveyed to you in an organized manner.

should we be concerned that you'll be very hamstrung and unable to do that basic work that will set us back weeks or even months while the transition remains stunted? >> absolutely. i mean, it's very concerning. we can work with anyone. i've worked with republican and democratic administrations. we have to work with our colleagues at warp speed at cdc, at fda. we can't lose a day here. >> dr. david kessler, co-chair of the biden coronavirus task force, former commissioner of the u.s. food and drug administration, an esteemed, accomplished public servant, back into that work now in a very different way. sir, thanks for doing this first interview with us since the election. we look forward to having you back whenever you can be here. >> stay safe, rachel. >> i will do. thank you. all right, i mentioned earlier that the trump campaign plans right now to try to throw

out the results of the election and keep the president in power seem to be focusing -- new reporting suggests it seems to be focusing on trying to lobby and pressure and manipulate republican state legislatures in two states. we had a long report earlier on michigan. we're going to pennsylvania, the other of the two states, next. stay us. the two states, next. stay us. understanding how to talk to your doctor about treatment options is key. today, we are redefining how we do things. we find new ways of speaking, so you're never out of touch. it's seeing someone's face that comforts us, no matter where. when those around us know us, they can show us just how much they care. the first steps of checking in, the smallest moments can end up being everything. there's resources that can inform us, and that spark can make a difference. when we use it to improve things, then that change can last within us. when we understand what's possible,

we won't settle for less. the best thing we can be is striving to be at our best. managing heart failure starts now with understanding. call today or go online to understandhf.com for a free hf handbook. something you wanth to play games with.isn't call today or go online to understandhf.com hope you got dental. and that's why i love healthmarkets, your insurance marketplace. they guarantee you won't find a lower price anywhere for the plans they offer, so you're not just picking by chance. no copay?... sweet. with health insurance plans constantly changing, having the wrong fit could mean missing benefits or costing you thousands. healthmarkets' fitscore instantly ranks plans both on and off the government exchange to find one that best fits your insurance needs. in minutes, you can find out if your current plan is the right fit, or if there's another one that can get you more coverage or help save you money.

and best of all, their services are completely free. healthmarkets designed its fitscore forever technology to do all the work for you. it continuously scans the market to compare your plan against any new options year after year, so you don't have to stress about picking your health insurance plan. funny, that came up the last time i was at the doctor. it looks like your blood pressure's a little high. and i've also had anxiety, headaches, insomnia, and panic attacks. sounds like you've been shopping for health insurance. healthmarkets has options from both on and off the government exchange. they can find you the right health plan and make sure you get all the subsidies you deserve, without playing games. you might even qualify for free health insurance with no monthly premium. healthmarkets is the number one ranked health insurance agency in america. having helped enroll people in millions of policies while earning an a-plus customer satisfaction rating from the better business bureau, you can trust healthmarkets. for this free service, go to healthmarkets.com or call right now.

call or click now to enroll or see how your plan compares. call the number on your screen, or visit healthmarkets.com do you have a life insurance policy you no longer need? now you can sell your policy, even a term policy, for an immediate cash payment. call coventry direct to learn more. we thought we had planned carefully for our retirement. but we quickly realized that we needed a way to supplement our income. our friends sold their policy to help pay for their medical bills and that got me thinking. maybe selling our policy could help with our retirement. i'm skeptical, so i did some research and called coventry direct. they explained life insurance is a valuable asset that can be sold. we learned that we can sell all of our policy or keep part of it with no future payments, who knew? we sold our policy. now we can relax and enjoy our retirement as we had planned. if you have one hundred thousand dollars or

more of life insurance you may qualify to sell your policy. don't cancel or let your policy lapse without finding out what it's worth. visit conventrydirect.com to find out if you policy qualifies. or call the number on your screen. coventry direct, redefining insurance. okay, check this out from pennsylvania. late tonight, republicans in the pennsylvania legislature passed a resolution that they say will initiate an audit of the results of the election in pennsylvania this year. the review's going to be completed after the results are certified in pennsylvania, but the republicans say this audit is nevertheless necessary to turn up any, quote, inconsistencies in the 2020 election results and to ensure the accuracy of the vote. thing about that, though, of course, is there is zero evidence of any big inconsistencies in the pennsylvania election. there is no real reason to doubt

the accuracy of the results, so why are they doing this? well, here's how democratic state rep malcolm kenyatta explained it when he confronted them on it while their resolution was being debated. >> you said the eyes of the world are on us, and the eyes of the world are, indeed, on us, and they are watching us tear our democracy apart for no reason. you know, so much of this is political theater, but this political theater is having a poisoning effect of our democracy and in people's faith in the results. going around talking about voter fraud where there is no voter fraud diminishes faith and trust in our election. if we want to talk about emails that people are getting and phone calls that folks are getting to their offices, i'm getting phone calls every day talking about folks stealing the election. the election was not stolen. >> joining us now is pennsylvania state

representative malcolm kenyatta. he represents parts of the great city of philadelphia. mr. kenyatta, it's nice to see you. thank you for taking time to be with us tonight. >> first of all, rachel, matt and i have been praying for you, susan, and your family. it's so good to have you back. >> thank you so much. i will take all of the prayers that i can get. take a double helping to the extent that i can. let me just ask you, malcolm, about what's going on with pennsylvania republicans. we talked to you before the election about them trying to set up an investigative committee to be able to have subpoena power to investigate the conduct of the election while votes were still being counted. you and your colleagues were able to push that back and get them to back off that effort. but now, what is this new audit that they are planning on doing? it sort of feels like a different version of the same thing. >> rachel, it really is. and a part of what state legislatures benefit from is that there's not a lot of attention on what happens at the state level, but it's critical. as you explained, what they're doing is not substantive, but it

is deeply serious. we've watched the president for four years use the federal government to fund his golf courses and everything else. and now he has bullied the house republican caucus into funding a phishing expedition into claims of fraud that really do not exist. we've seen his lawyers go around and be able to produce no evidence. and now they've given a blank check to some soon-to-be-mentioned audit company to find the fraud that the president has been complaining about on twitter, and that's deeply dangerous. >> do you think that pennsylvania legislators, republican pennsylvania legislators, are engaging with the kind of thing that the trump campaign is reportedly planning on trying to pressure them to do? are they engaging seriously with the prospect of trying to delete the election results, effectively, trying to negate

them and cast enough aspersions on the vote that some other method is chosen by them to appoint trump electors, rather than the electors who would be appointed for joe biden? is this a live issue among the republicans in your state? >> well, there are two things that we know. first is that they are now party to one of the lawsuits by the president to try to hold up the certification of the results. if passed as prologue, they will be unsuccessful in that. but the other thing they're trying is what we see from the president. he has lost this election, and now he's trying to destroy our democracy on the way out, cast aspersions on the results that were not favorable to him. and the unfortunate thing is, the republican party is eager and willing to help him. you know, he's been tweeting about state, you know, local statehouse, you know, races and what they should do in terms of their leadership. i mean, you've never seen the

president weighing in on who the statehouse should pick for their leadership, but i think they are afraid of him. you know, i won't be bullied by the president. i know the house democratic caucus won't be bullied. but unfortunately, we have in the house gop folks who are really spineless and afraid of a mean tweet by the president, and so, they're doing his bidding in terms of trying to find anywhere they can fraud. we know no fraud exists. this was a safe, free, and fair election in pennsylvania. and what's most absurd, rachel, is they, on one hand, celebrate their victories at the state level, and yet, cast aspersions on joe biden's victory. it's absurd. >> malcolm kenyatta, pennsylvania state representative, it's great to see you, malcolm. thank you for being with us. >> always a pleasure. thank you, rachel. >> we'll be right back. ays a ple thank you, rachel. >> we'll be right back beautiful. but support the leg!

when i started cobra kai, the lack of control over my business made me a little intense. but now i practice a different philosophy. quickbooks helps me get paid, manage cash flow, and run payroll. and now i'm back on top... with koala kai. hey! more mercy. save over 30 hours a month with intuit quickbooks. the easy way to a happier business.

i feel like we're forglet me check.ing. xfinity home gives you peace of mind from anywhere with professionally monitored home security built around you. no, i think we're good. good. so when you're away, you don't have to worry. the tent. we forgot... the tent. except about that. xfinity home. simple. easy. awesome. hey look, i found the tent! get xfinity home with no term contract required. click or call today.

"way too early with kasie hunt" is up next. what do you say to americans, especially immigrant americans, who came to the united states looking for political stability and seeing all of the things that the president is doing? >> hang on. i'm on my way. that's what i say to them. not a joke. >> some reassurance from the president-elect as president trump tries to cling to power. three questions this morning -- will republicans back the president's reported plan to take this fight to the electoral college? is he really pinning his hopes on rudy giuliani? and does he plan to do anything to help slow the virus that is raging across the