welcome to this morning joe special. putting a spotlight on the presidency. the last four years have brought many aspects of the american life into stark relief including the legacy of previous commanders in chief. among them. the 33rd president of the united states. harry trueman. the focus of joe's brand new book entitled saves freedom. the cold war and the fight for western civilization. which came out on tuesday. it's getting incredible reviews.

we have hosted a series of conversation about the trueman era. and it kind of makes us realize that we should be talking about him more. and it's impact on the world stage back then. his presidency. and still today. let's bring in another great panel to continue the timely discussion. former u.s. senator now a political analyst. claire mccaskill is here. she knows truman more than anybody. columnist and editor for the "washington post." and historian and at vanderbilt university. who advises elect joe biden. >> let me ask you. you were the first while i was developing writing the book and sort of developing my thoughts. drew parallels between tru man and biden. saying if biden ended up being

elected there would be some parallels between the two. that were too hard to miss. >> coming to power at a moment where the infrastructure of the world is either under stress and strain or is fully broken. it's a moment of global consciousness. not simply intellectually. in a tactile sense. because the pandemic is a global phenomenon. fdr was articulate in the way clinton and obama were articulate. and bush too. on globalization as an idea and emerging fact. but the what we're living through now is that this is no longer a subject of kind of blue sky conversation. but the world has in fact become so interconnected that our fates

are linked. trueman was a long time legislator. who was as george w. bush might say misunder estimated a great deal until he came to power. you would not have bet in the same way with joe biden you wouldn't have bet 18 months before he became president that this was going to happen. he was a compromised choice. to go on the ticket in 1944. and one of the things about predicting history. an old observation, if you had been in 1940 if you had said that the next three presidents would be senator from missouri, a not very prominent office in the army. and a harvard under graduate. you would be wrong. it sort of puts our predictive

capacities in context. >> it becomes obvious that this vision of the world that has began with harry tru man and those who were president the creation will continue as it did from truman through reagan and bush 41. and now once again through joe biden administration. >> the speech was a rejection of the isolationism we have seen over four years and rejection of foreign policy as financial transaction. so often trump has viewed. saying we're getting ripped off by this country and nato. and yumpeuropean allies need to more or else. the team announced by joe biden. what is that vision of the world which if you erase the last three and a half years is a familiar one to anybody that

watched american foreign policy. >> i have heard competence. experience. this is a team that joe biden will feel comfortable delegating authority to. i saw a group of people who have a demonstrated capacity it work together. i have covered so many administrations where national security adviser and secretaries of state and defense were at war. they were just so hungry for media attention. for space and the national debate. that's not going to be true with the team. i think tony blinken said it clearly. as it president-elect biden. we want to restore america's alliances. in heart of american power. in a sense that will be easy. we have a world rating for the return of the traditional american leadership. the way it will be heard, the

truth we all know is that you can't turn back the clock. history doesn't move back ward. it's always moving forward. we're in a different place that than we were when trump became president. he's done damage to america's standing and the world confidence. in other ways the world hauz moved on. my big hope for the team is rather than simply try to recreate what was, they'll reimagine what america american connected to our allies, connected to values, to traditional themes of american foreign policy can be in the future. if it's simply a return to the good old days, that's not going to be enough. >> and claire mccaskill, i talk about your knowledge of truman. you're a fan. you served in his seat. and know a lot about him. thank you for hosting the event of the library last week for

joe. it was incredible. you could see how engaged you are in sort of the incredible impact his presidency has had on the world. >> i think people, first of all joe biden and harry trueman. joe biden is the first president since that regularly uses the work ma larky. >> this is true. >> a word out of his vocabulary. very plain spoken. very humble. he was kind of taken by the fact that he had been thrust into this job and he was every day he hunkered down and tried to get to the basics. what would be the best for the future of america. he left the presidency as joe knows and we talked about this, very unpopular. let's think about why.

let's tick off the list of courageous decisions he made that would have polled probably in the teens. firing mcarthur. immigrating the armed services. reck natirecognition of israel. a foreign aid program. america was still in pain from a bitter depression that left everyone economically insecure the way he pushed that through the senate and the house in a bipartisan way. it's really a astounding in light of how the political wind were blowing at that time. and i want you to speak about that and the difference between what joe biden is facing right now in terms of polarization in congress and the skill that tru man had actually getting republicans on board for what was not a very popular thing in

america. >> it wasn't a very popular thing in america. especially because we had just gotten out of world war ii. americans were exhausted. we had a long history of being isolationists and peacetime. we talked about this. we spoke about this at the smithsonian. earlier this week. and so, he had to get a war weary country back on war footing. and tell them just two years after winning the great war, that the soviet union our ally was our adversary who had designs on the europe the way hitler had a decade earlier. and truman did leave with 22% approval rating. as we have mentioned we are the

beneficiary of the rating. of the tough, unpopular decisions that harry made. it is in large part why the american century exploded. in the 40s and 50s. and over the next several decade. it is also why the united states became the indespensable power on the world stage and remained that way. >> absolutely. to me the marvelous thing about truman and lincoln. among others. they were the right person for the moment. some of that is retro spective of course. one of the instincts in human nature is tell ourselves a coherent story. the other thing that gives i think confidence to presidents is the journey of truman.

and i talked to a few of them who understand that the 22% in realtime maybe the price to be paid for the monuments of the future. not that they're playing for monuments. they are human beings. everybody wants to be harry truman now. nobody wanted to be him in 1952 and 53. so i remember going through this with the conversations with george hw bush. you remember he got 39% of the country to vote to rehire him in 1992. and yet as the years went by the decisions he made for the good of the country that were not for his political gain have come to be seen as the right ones. so when he died, he died a much more esteemed figure. what's the lesson.

between tru man and bush. do what you think is right. put the good of the country ahead of personal gain. and play the long game. i think you have quoted before, he never slept better than when he made a hard decision but the right decision. if you did what you think is right, often if you challenge your base of supporters, that is what history remembers. what's the one thing we remember about nixon? that is clearly positive. the epa, which was against the base of the party and going to china. johnson and race. you would not have bet that he would end up playing that role. and you wouldn't have bet on the evening of april 12, 1945, that truman would be a great global figure. the great news is that have presidents who want to learn,

who are open to new experiences and seeing the world not only through their own eyes but the yis of adversaries and allies and advisers and have guts that in fact if you are president of the united states you're not playing just for the next week. you're playing for the next generation. >> reminded us this week that lbj told her he was jealous of truman for being able to sleep at night after the tough decisions. everybody stay put. we'll continue our conversation. still ahead. our conversation with former secretary of state. whose own family felt the impact of communism in europe firsthand. firsthand.that'll really take you back. wow! what'd you get, ryan? it's customized home insurance from liberty mutual!

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our objective is peace.

we know now this is not a task or a short one. we are determined to see it through. both of our great political parties are committed to work together. and i'm sure they will continue to work together to achieve this end. we are prepared to devote energy and resources to this task. because we know that our own security and the future of mankind are at stake. i want to say that no one appreciates more than i, the bipartisan cooperation and foreign affairs which has been enjoyed by this administration. >> we are back with a special hour of morning joe. you listen to the speech. that was the state of the union in 1950. delivered by president truman talking about bipartisan. we are starting the transition to the echoes of that. return to a bipartisan ship.

is it naive to think we can achieve that with joe biden and his relationships in the senate? >> i don't think it's naive at all. for those that think it's impossible to strike a bipartisan coalition, go back to where truman found himself in 1947. when i write about dean receiving the two notes from the british ambassador. in form of the united states. they can no longer defend greece or turkey against soviet aggression. and if the united states didn't get involved in those countries and across europe, that freedom was at risk. weste western civilization was as risk. 1947 when he got the notes the republican party had just taken kol back of the united states -- control back of the united states senate and house.

since hoover was routed by fdr. i don't think anybody that's read history of fdr administration would consider him to be a especially gracious to the republican minority. so they were chafing under fdr and ready to show independence. the last thing they wanted to do was help another democratic president. especially in the field of foreign policy. and yet he immediately started talking to arthur. and immediately started talking to republicans as walter mentioned earlier, people in the administration at the end of the day would get in the car late at night. drive over to the chairman and foreign relations townhouse in washington, and they would talk and update him with what had been moving on in the day. and because he built the

relationship, he proved to be a crucial bridge between truman and the republican party. and this was a republican party that had been isolationists. had told wilson flat out no, we're not engaged in europe and the rest of the world and the league of nations after world war i. truman being a creature of the united states senate, like joe biden being a creature of the united states senate, knew that in the word of business mark that politics was the art of the possible. the art of the attainable. the art of the next best thing. and that's something that joe biden understands as much as anybody in washington d.c. >> as you explain in the book, trueman knew from the start he had to reach out. he was not well known. joe biden has a much easier time of it.

he's been experience has been in government. he knows a wide range of people at home and abroad. when roosevelt died sailors at sea wept. thinking the war might never be war. japanese propaganda announced victory was possible. because the great american leader was gone. and trueman knew he had to reach out and build a national con sen isment this is one of the things i love about your book. you illustrate the win which the internationalism that comes from a heart land from places like missouri, from the arkansas. to later. the montana. that internationalism has a residence. it throughout the country and

the world. i think biden has that basic bedrock american feel. and i hope that his instinct is to reach out as truman was to republicans in the house and senate. he's better equipped than any democrat who could have become president to do that. and the question is whether the republicans are ready to take him up on it. then other republicans as you say had a will the to lose. they wanted power again. they didn't want to share power. trueman made them understand american have to come first. that's what you hope above all joe biden can communicate and people like mitch mcconnell will be able to understand and embrace. >> claire. we don't know yet who will control the senate. as we wait for the run off elections in the state of

georgia. is it powerful that joe biden served so long with so many of the senators. are personal relationships that meaningful in getting things done. will mcconnell come to the table the way he wouldn't with nancy pelosi? how much is the dynamic in congress changes? >> if anybody can do it it will be joe biden. i remember back in the obama administration, i remember when there was a time to count noses and twist arms on votes. for obama calling senators was like telling eat spin ach. it was not his favorite thing to do. back slap and call and go up to the hill. on the other hand joe biden did that job a will the. for obama. he loved the personal relationships he developed in

the senate. most of the senators in powerful positions in leadership, those ranking members in chairs regardless of who has the majority, have known him for decade and really like him. he's a nice guy. and he will reach out personally to them. if they rebuff him, if he publicly tries so hard. i think it makes a very difficult for them politically. and they have six seats up in two years. that aren't going to be a walk in the park for mitch mcconnell. and his republican caucus. i'm not sure that mitch mcconnell will be as cooperative as we hope. if anybody can figure out the right combination to move this gridlock it would be joe biden. >> we should point out the old friend in the senate haven't publicly acknowledged he is president-elect. they are not off to a great start. maybe it gets better. thank you all so much for joining us.

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we have seen brave men over comes obstacles. and forces that seem overwhelming. men with courage and vision can still determine their own destiny. they can choose slavery or freedom. war or peace. i have no doubt which they will choose. the treaty we're signing is evidence of the path they will follow. if there's anything certain today if there is anything inevitable in the future, it is

the will of the people of the world for our freedom and peace. >> nato just got larger. three new members all of whom who used to be on the other side. >> secretary of state welcomed the newest members and in missouri. birthplace of tru man. czech republic, poland and hungry part of the military alliance the the warsaw pact. that became history when the cold ar ended along with the old soviet union. today they became the newest members of nato. >> welcome back. we have been looking at the presidency of the harry truman through the lens of the current government in washington. he understood what trump has not understood. politics is the art of the possible. the attainable. the art of the next best. here snou part of our conversation with somebody else who understood that. former secretary of state.

and presidential historians. >> secretary, i want to get your thoughts as i heard tony blinken yesterday talking about his stepfather escaping the holocaust. and falling to his knees in front of american tank. american soldier coming out of it. and tony step dad staying god bless america. the only three words he knew. and i thought about you. and your family escaping. hitler's grasp. i thought about doctor -- i thought about. i know it would have been such a moving moment for your dear

friend. i'm curious what your thoughts were yesterday as you saw him repeat that remarkable story. >> i was deeply moved. the story is so remarkable. and it makes him appreciate even more the incredible job that he is about to step into. and my thoughts were how grateful i am to america. we came in november 1948. and truman was my first american president. i so remember being a little girl in london all during world wa 2. when the americans came what a difference it was. to see the yanks walking through london and knowing what had happened in terms of america helps to save europe from the horrors of fascism. >> could you talk about what this moment means to you? seeing america once again

getting engaged on the world stage when you were sec ta of state and throughout your life you have been such a champion. you were such a champion for the promotion of american values across the globe. and standing up to autocrats. standing up to tyrants. believing that america was the indespensable power. what does it mean for us to be back to where we have been since 1947? >> i think it's so important. we know what a difference it makes when america is not just present but partners with other countries who have similar values. in order to make the world a better place. for all those people who want to live in freedom. and so, it means an incredible amount to see we are back. and we are back with the team of

people that truly understand what measuring's position in the world needs to be. we have been awall. it's terrible. we need to restore the standing and our reputation and understanding what america means in terms of value and working with others. i'm very hopeful for the administration. they have a very difficult job ahead. the last four years have been a disaster. and rebuilding in a very different kind of situation. i think there are terrific team being led by president-elect biden who i know very well and has a very much disposed way of dealing with people as partners and listening and not bossing everybody around. >> as we speak with hope about the incoming administration. it's so important to remind our viewers that the words that we

heard yesterday could have come from the lips of a secretary of state who worked for any republican or democratic administration. between truman and obama. you look one of the things that is so inspiring about his leadership in the koeltd cold war is he build an architectture, this international construct that every president that followed him through ronald reagan and george bush, they followed and there was this seamless passing of the torch between one administration to another. between one group of diplomats to another group. who understood what america's role was in the world. and we are actually it seems that we are once again reconnecting with that proud

heritage. >> it also seems that once again we reconnected with a team that will be strong minded people who are willing to speak their mind. question assumptions and argue. that's what's great about the team. lock at general marshall. this is great story when he was a young general. he was in fdr's office and he's presenting a pet project and everybody else is going along. and he says to marshall you're not nodding your head. i don't agree with you at all mr. president. everybody thought uh-oh. he lifts him up 25 notches to become the chief of staff. that's what he wanted. that's what we saginaw biden's team. and i want to ask you what fun it must have been to live with this man. i choose the people i want to write about. i want to live with them. he's somebody i would love to live with him. i went to his house. he would come back from being president and sitting and

reading. always reading. who cares if he went to college. somebody knocks on the door and his car is broken down. he lets them to to use the phone. as he's leaving he stares at him and says it's amazing you look the sob harry truman. he says i am that sob. >> the conversation continues after a short break. break.when h with powering through, it's time for theraflu hot liquid medicine. powerful relief so you can restore and recover. theraflu hot beats cold.

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welcome back to this morning joe special. putting a spotlight on the presidency of harry truman to joe biden. here now is more of the conversation with former secretary of state. and two of the best historians around. >> we all remember the story the morning after the 1948 election. where somebody gives him a copy

that he holds up and says defeats truman. we don't hear about the night before. where harry trueman was being told by all of the experts, by everybody he had lost the race. what did he do? he got a sandwich. poured a glass of milk and went to sloeep. when he woke up. he won. he had just pulled off the greatest upset in the history of american politics. the guy went so sleep. thinking i did my best, if i win i win, if i lose i lose. that's an incredible quality to have. >> it is. i love the book. thank you. it's a gift. we're watching freedom being saved before our eyes.

this couldn't be a better moment for this gift. another thing that he had was forgive me for saying this, had had a sense of history. never had a college education. family couldn't afford it. but he was probably better read in presidential history than almost any other president and he said it couldn't imagine how anybody could be president of the united states without being interested in history. can you imagine if he came back during the trump e ra and saw a president that could careless. not every reader will be a leader. every leader has to be a reader. he said this is my paraphrasing, i don't know i could have gone through things like the threat of the soviets in 1947 or what to do about the atom bomb. if i had not read books and history that dealt with general

jackson. lincoln. his favorite book was horribly titled -- a gift from his mother. called i apologize for the this title. great men and famous women. 1895. the author thought women could only be fay nous not great. the subtitle. you can see it covered a wide swath of human experience. he said when ever i had to make tough decisions i would think back to lincoln or jackson. it was never an exact parallel. but some idea as how to operate as president with the tough decisions. with fragment information. sometimes ten big decisions at once. the only users manual you have is to know what worked in history. >> secretary, joe's book is about shaping a new world after

world war ii. that's what trueman started. joe biden's job is now to restore that world. so someone who has been secretary of state and all of those rooms with the world leaders and crossed the globe. where do you begin on day one in terms of strengthening alliances again and showing america's commitment to the world? how do you start? >> i really think with e begin by understanding that we have to dig out of a time when we didn't respect our allies and friends. it's going to be very important to deliver the right messages that we want to work with them on solving problems of the 21st century world. and what public service is about. and how we're going to work with everybody. and i think that message is going to be delivered. it will be delivered by making also foreign policy less foreign. by focusing on the covid-19

tragedies that have gone on. and working on issues together on making the world healthier. and the climate change and understanding that we operate with a very different world. truman did understand that. i'm proud of the fact that we renamed the state department building the trueman building. in order to recognize what he had done. all people will be operating out of the building in honor of him. and following some of the things that he did in terms of establishing the things you write about. in terms of how the doctrine came together. the establishment of nato. understanding that we have to operate with other countries as partners and i think i was very proud that i was able to do the first succession to nato at the trueman library signing on his

desk. so much of what he did is something that has to be resovid in treating ones friends and allies. in functioning abroad and respecting the people who work for him. >> filling that building at the pentagon and white house and all, all of them to his point. we will have doirs. great men. and great women. joe biden is certainly not afraid of putting people around him who challenge him. people from different points of view and experiences. >> exactly. that's what you want. you want to bring a different set of understanding of the world. one of the things roosevelt worried about is democracy would be threatened if people in different sections and regions

and classes began reviewing each other. the more you have people around you who bring different experiences li experiences lincoln did. he brought different factions in the north. some moderate and conservative. and you become a family team. and project yourself on the outside world and know the president is getting the best advice. it's a comforting thing. it's never the leader alone. that combination of humility and confidence matters. confidence to make the decision you have listened to the people and make the best possible decision. it's great. it's exciting to see a new world order forming and go back to old tru man and the old order built up step by step. >> can you explain trying to help me understand something. truman graduated from spalding

commercial college in kansas city. and he went on to be i think the most significant foreign policy leader on the world stage in the post war era. joe biden of course was offended with suggestion that only ivy league grads should be president of the united states. he will be the first non-ivy league president since reagan. who of course went to college and knew his way around the global stage. and domestic stage. lbj a man obviously that you knew a great deal about and wrote about. another man who wasn't a harvard or yale man. he went to southwest texas teachers college. can you have you thought what it was about these men with modest educations, what it was about

them that made them so much more effective with lbj was working congress. same thing with truman and reagan. what was it about the men with modest educations? that were so effective. and those three gentlemen probably three of the most effective presidents of the last 75 years. >> it's a great question. in some ways, you make lincoln and truman. never having had the college education. they were lifelong learners. which meant they are reading and thinking and learning the entire time. with lbj his father said you'll brush up against the stone of life. that's more important than whatever college experience you went to. you keep learning. he learned from people. he had congressmen to his senate and office buildings and the

mansion night after night. they would have dinner and learn from them and listen to them. the answer is you don't this you're suddenly educated. you think i'll keep doing this the rest of many life. roosevelt was reading lincoln nine volumes. he was in the middle of a cold strike. he wanted to know how did lincoln handle a difficult situation. there's so much to learn. from history. you learn from parents and grandparents. why not learn from the other presidents? and have been through similar situations like your own. the fact that you keep learning as lifelong learning is the most important thing. you have chosen a great guy to write about. i would love to have lived with him. you have done it for me. >> michael, to bring it up to current day, where are we right

now? it's a huge question. look at the history. the country has been rattled and turned upside in tour years. under donald trump. how to we stabilize again? is it too much to ask one man. president-elect biden to do that? again? is it too much to ask one man, president-elect joe biden to do that? >> as you know, we've got a system that very much depends on presidential leadership. look at everything that's happened in the last four years because of the deficiencies and foibles of one person, donald trump. you know, life would have been different during the last four years had it been otherwise. so presidential leadership helps. but i'm of the view that we have just been through a terribly close call. we are being untied from the railroad tracks. had donald trump been reelected, i think we would be talking this morning about the danger that next year we won't be living in something that resembles a democracy that we recognize and our children will be in danger and newspapers might be in jeopardy of being closed down

with a president surrounded by more yes men than before living in a world of greater and greater delusion. that would have been dangerous for all of us. now we are in a position that not only is joe biden delivering us from four years of donald trump, but this is someone who has 50 years of experience working in democracy. it all comes naturally to him. he knows all those people we saw on the stage yesterday. he knows that the founders wanted advisors to a president or members of congress to fight with one another because they knew the result of that is the best policies. that's the way you do it, not to be surrounded by yes people. >> a great thanks to madeleine albright. so honored to have her here. thank you so much. we'll be right back. u so much. we'll be right back. tax-smart investing strategies, and with brokerage accounts online trades are commission free.

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welcome back to ""morning joe"." thank you so much for being with us. i just want to give you this reminder as we go through this thanksgiving weekend. we still have so much to be thankful for in this country. we've been through a very difficult year, but there have been many times when i know a lot of you have reached out and e-mailed me or talked to me and asked mika and me, are we going

to be okay? and one of the reasons i always believed that we were, one of the reasons i had so much confidence in the strength of our institutions and the goodness of this country is because i read about presidents like harry truman. i read about american history so much and i've seen time and time again that this country has faced terrible obstacles and we've gotten through them and we've become better every time because of the challenges that we've faced. what's been true over the past 240 years, i hope to god will be true of this country over the next four years. ♪ r years. ♪ for over 30 years,

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♪ in december 2019, while most of the world was celebrating the holidays, in the industrial city of wuhan, china, home to 11 million people, the virus was spreading. at first, it seemed like a local problem. >> a newly-identified deadly virus from china. >> the 45 cases have been reported in china, including two