hans nichols, always great to see you, my friend. and, you know, my focus today and this week as we watch republican senators start to grapple with a post trump world is just how much they are going to insist on a return to normalcy, civility and decency that they are now demanding from cabinet nominees like neera tanden, after ignoring so many things that president trump had to say about other people. it will be a test for them and i think we're already seeing where they're going to come down on it. thank you for getting up "way too early" on this tuesday morning. don't go anywhere. "morning joe" starts right now. had a relationship with the president and when there's a need in arizona, i talk to him directly. i had to change the ringtone on my phone and it rings "hail to the chief" because i didn't want to miss another phone call directly from the white house.

♪ >> oh, that is -- >> you know what? you didn't -- >> that is cold. >> didn't just do that. >> when you call somebody and you're watching then and they look at the phone -- >> and they turn it over. >> and they mute it. >> arizona's -- >> donald trump -- >> doug ducey yesterday. he was signing the certification documents that declared joe biden the winner of the state. >> that's cold. it's chilly. >> would you like a blanket? >> willie, do you have a blanket. >> would you need one? sometimes he needs his little night night. >> no. no. so willie, that's -- that's the governor of arizona and donald trump's watching him as is set

to certify this. and trump starts calling him. trying to get -- i mean -- >> that is unbelievable. >> trying to get him to stop from doing what he's legally required to do. >> i mean, that's the final scene in the movie, isn't it? where you had a republican who felt like he had to always answer to donald trump literally ignoring donald trump and silencing the music that welcomes him into the room as he certifies the election in the last swing state to be certified which basically puts the final nail in the coffin. officially certified. there's your closing scene right there. >> yep. >> that's just moving on. >> mika, you have him calling the governor of arizona to try to stop the certification, the legal certification. what the governor has to do, by law. you had the president of the united states actually calling michigan legislators to the white house to try to get in the

way of them doing what they're legally required to do. with putting the electors in that would represent the millions of people that voted for donald trump. you had him trying to interfere from beginning to end and we're now when we're going to show this for you, you're now even going getting publications like the national review -- >> yeah. >> who called up the president a few times in the post election -- post election period. but just saying enough is enough. "the wall street journal" editorial page. even brought themselves to saying as much a week or two ago. so everybody knows the gig's up. but for some reason, republican senators and mitch mcconnell just can't let those words cross -- >> but talk about the height of needy. talking about while he's certificating on television like i must stop this and then having the guy not take his call

publicly. that's in trump's mind, that's painful. as willie mentioned, the state's most hotly battleground states have now certificated the -- certified the election results. the state of arizona certified its election results yesterday. solidifying joe biden's win and clearing the way for mark kelly to take a seat in the u.s. senate as soon as tomorrow. after governor doug ducey signed off on the official documents, president trump released a torrent of disparaging tweets about the republican. if you want to know what was going to be said on that phone call, you can just go on twitter. and in one instance, trump seemingly agreed with a comment that ducey betrayed the people of arizona. ducey who campaigned with trump has stuck by the integrity of the state's voting system,

despite the president's unrelenting and unfounded fraud claims. >> but we're hearing this, willie, time and again from local republicans, whether it's governor kemp or governor ducey. these governors that have kowtowed to donald trump and who believed that their political futures depended on donald trump's supporting them. but you have to choose yourself between breaking the law, going against what the state -- the laws of your state require you to do as an elected official. and subverting in effect subverting the democratic will of millions of voters in your own state. are doing what a sitting president who's trying to pull off a coup unconstitutional trying to overturn the will of 80 million voters. you have to make that choice and

for even these republicans that's not a difficult decision to make. >> yeah. that happened in georgia as well. governor brian kemp he's been on president trump's side through and through and now because he won't do what the president says in terms of investigating the election that has been certified he is attacking him and others. raffensperger confirmed the second recount will be done by wednesday at midnight and he praised the paper ballot system for being accountable. that did not stop the president from calming him hapless for certifying -- >> what does that mean? emergency powers to throw out the -- >> sounds like a "star trek" theme. >> throw out millions of votes. this is again, this is

tyrannical. this is look up the definition of a coup. it's an illegal, unconstitutional attempt at seizing power and that's what donald trump is doing here, willie. it's time that people start calling it what it is. it's a failed coup attempt. i know something about that from being in the house of representatives. and about one or two failed coup attempts every week or two, but this is a failed coup attempt by donald trump. he's president of the united states, and he's trying to get these republicans to overturn the popular will of the voters in their states. >> let's remember, in georgia, this is a vote that's been counted, hand recounted, a hand recount that confirmed the original vote and they near the process of a third recount in that state. so governor kemp's spokesman said yesterday in response to the attacks from president trump, quote, georgia law prohibits the governor from

interfering in elections. the secretary of state who is an elected constitutional officer has oversight over elections that cannot be overridden by executive order. that's from the governor. the continued conflict has the republican party concerned about the impact on voter turnout for that january 5th runoff that will determine control of the united states senate. two races there in that runoff. here's raffensperger, the secretary of state, speaking yesterday. >> there are those who exploit the emotions of many trump supporters with fantastic claims, half truths, misinformation, and frankly, they are misleading the president as well apparently. upholding the law matters. truth matters. and your vote matters. anyone telling you to boycott an election is not on your side. >> so again, joe, that's the secretary of state raffensperger. it's not a long list but we ought to call them out every time we have a chance.

people who stood his ground. he's a republican who said i voted for donald trump and he was endorsed by donald trump and again and again and again he walks out in front of cameras in the face of death threats to him and his family because he won't overturn the vote in georgia. he says i did my job, donald trump lost here. i don't know how many times you want me to say it. >> well, why this is so confusing for rank and file republicans is because listen to what he just said there. he said the law matters. >> yeah. >> and the truth matters. and that is the antithesis of what donald trump has said over the past four years. donald trump has said, i am the law. article 2 gives me the power whatever i want to do. the justice department and the fbi is mine. i can prosecute anybody i want to prosecute. i can call for the prosecution of my political opponent two weeks before the presidential campaign. and so he's saying that and mika, it's confusing a lot of

republicans right now in the state of georgia because you've got donald trump attacking the secretary of state. donald trump attacking the governor. you've got sidney powell if she's not disbarred or at least sanctioned for what she's filing in federal court then it seems to me no federal judge can ever sanction anybody else for bad faith claims brought before a federal judge. but she is now telling the people of georgia and the people of america that brian kemp conspired with kelly loeffler to keep doug collins off the ballot. so now trump's own circle -- sidney powell's been at all of those press conferences with rudy up until a week or so ago. they're saying that there's a

conspiracy out there and that kelly loeffler in the runoff got there illegally with a conspiracy with the governor of the state of georgia. so there's all in infighting. i talked about this several weeks ago. i asked what mitch mcconnell was thinking, i'm not sure what he's thinking, because here we are. he won't step in and show any leadership. he won't -- he won't talk about the truth. he won't talk about the law. you know, he said let the votes be counted, let the legal challenges move forward. well, maybe, mitch, you need to read the national review, you need to review "the wall street journal" editorial pages. you need to see what everybody already knows. that at this point, the votes have been counted. the legal challenges have been had. the votes have been certified in every swing state and you would hope that there would be some leadership coming from the majority leader's office. there's just not.

>> but just one question, just trying to put oneself in mitch's position. if the president is still sort of saying he won this, i know he went on i think it was maria bart aroma's show and went on for 38 minutes saying that the election was a scam. >> right. >> and making all sorts of accusations, you know, sort of undermined the system. >> right. >> is that something that, you know, pushes back people like mitch mcconnell? i mean, do they still need him to extend? is he sort of abusing his power on networks that will allow him to do that? >> well, i mean, with kasie hunt -- let's bring you in here. there's no guarantee that donald trump is not going down to the state of georgia and say that these georgia people are -- these georgia republicans are worthless. just write my name in as your senator. it's a high-risk gamble but at this point you have the rnc chairperson going down to the state of georgia trying to get

people to give money, trying to get people to organize and they're saying to her, well, why should we do that since the outcome is preordained and here you have the same woman who has claimed that in every other state, in every other state that donald trump has lost, it's rigged. but is saying, oh, yes, all of those elections were rigged but this one is not rigged even though the president of the united states keeps saying that the election system in the state of georgia is rigged. so i mean, what are republicans to do who want to win these last two seats? >> it's an impossible situation, joe. and in some ways it's a fitting end to four years of republicans who have essentially have -- they have ceded this ground to trump. i mean, they have stood by, they didn't see the tweets, ignored what he's been doing and now all

of a sudden he's on his way out. they really want to hang on to power. the only way to do it is for them to deal with that impossible divide that we have talked about in the anvil where these voters are trump voters. and they have punished republicans who have gone against donald trump. his base has. but on the other hand, trump has alienated a lot of the traditional republicans in the atlanta suburbs that the republicans also need and they have to get both of the groups of people to both go to the polls, trust the system, and also vote for these republican senate candidates and it's becoming a completely impossible task. you're absolutely right. in theory, there's been the conversations about whether the president should go down there and campaign for them. frankly, they need those people -- those voters who showed up and were there to vote for donald trump who otherwise don't vote in elections or who are new voters, new to the

process, they need those people if they're going to get the two senators re-elected. but at the same time, these are the people who are most receptive to that message that the president is sending. what if he goes down on the stage and says, don't vote, it's rigged. write me in as you say it's entirely possible. >> i feel like i ask you this question three times a week, so apologies in advance, what are mitch mcconnell and senate republicans still waiting for in terms of recognizing joe biden as the president-elect? we have all of the swing states have been certified. we know where this is headed. are they waiting for december -- i guess it's december, are they weight for the official count, the electoral college? when do they say, we give in, because every day donald trump causes more chaos and it's not going anywhere, but he has 74 million people listening to what he says every day.

>> yeah. willie, there's a couple of formal deadlines on the calendar that i would suggest you watch. december 8th is what's called the safe harbor deadline. it's when states have to have selected their electors so they do it in time for the electoral college to meet december 15th, the next critical deadline. but i think you're seeing the reality play out that i'm not sure they're ever going to do it. i don't think they want an on camera moment where they're forced to answer this question. i think they're going to let it happen. there's a couple who have stood out there and said, okay, no, we've got to end this farce. rob portman put out an op-ed in his local people and he named december 8th as that deadline when they have to say okay, we're done. we have had enough of this. but i think that the perception is that trump is going to be a force of some kind. i don't think any of us know what that will mean or what that will look like. if you're thinking i have to win

a primary election in a couple of years, do you want that tape out there of you criticizing donald trump? it may come back to haunt you. we know how focused he is and how vindictive he can be if there are comments out there like that. so, you know, i think they sort of have gotten this far. they have made the bargain that whatever damage is done is acceptable in the realities they face. >> joe biden's pick to lead the budget office neera tanden can be difficult if the republicans keep control of the senate. she has clashed with republican lawmakers on twitter. which provoked backlash from some gop senators yesterday. senator susan collins of maine told reporters, quote, i did not know her or much about her but i have heard that she's a very prolific user of twitter?

>> who else is? >> is that a problem? we have had the republicans say for years, well, i haven't seen what -- president trump has a twitter account? oh, i haven't seen what he's tweeting. >> as if they're ignoring the past four years. >> is this -- this is irony, right? >> so they're going to use her twitter account against her. >> would alanis morissette call this irony? >> yes. here is john cornyn and lindsey graham. >> it's pretty crazy to me to think that she can go back and -- you know, eliminate all of the tweets she sent out over the last whatever months or years. i don't know if they didn't think about it. they just assumed she'd get confirmd without question, but i think she's going to be radioactive. >> the omb director has to come before the budget hearing for hearings to be confirmed.

i would ask different questions than bernie sanders if democrats won in georgia. if you want to stop this nonsense, if you want to make sure in nut job isn't in charge of the office of the management and budget, then make sure we win in georgia. >> you know, willie, back in the 19 -- >> true colors. >> -- during the clinton administration, andrew sullivan who was then at the new republican had a cover story called the death of shame. talking about that administration. my god, they were straight shooters compared to these guys. it is really -- it's breathtaking that anybody would -- would talk about tweets coming from a democratic nominee after these people have forgiven or dismissed the president of the united states tweeting the

most horrific attacks, the most horrific insults imaginable. >> this is the trap they set for themselves for five years, ignoring the tweets, preepdzing pretending that stuff doesn't matter. now they have surrendered the right to be offended by what people say. you can't do it. and put together what kasie said a minute ago that none of them wants to say publicly that donald trump lost the election. they're silent about this lame coup he's trying to pull off. and yesterday, they're very exercised and very vocal about some tweets that neera tanden wrote about them over the years. >> please. >> let's bring in mike memoli, he's covering the transition now of joe biden. you made this point yesterday. republican senators who always profess to be unfamiliar with president trump's tweets now seem to be very familiar with the details of those belonging to neera tanden. >> yeah.

absolutely, willie. first of all, we should point out we're going to see tanden join the president-elect today as he rolls out the full members of his economic team. this is a team that along with the president-elect faces enormous challenges of reviving an economy that's been very much under strain during the pandemic and following through on the promises biden made during the campaign. he was at times critical of his own party for losing sight of the plight of working and middle class americans even as he put it during the campaign, people on park avenue have done well, but not in the neighborhoods like he grew up in in scranton. we have heard that janet yellen will be favorably received and the more immediate challenge is confirming the other choices like neera tanden for the office of management and budget. it was interesting in terms of

tanden's nomination in light of the other nominations we have seen so far from joe biden. fairly noncontroversial. mostly career government officials who have been, you know, respected on both sides of the aisle. tanden is somebody who even democrats were a bit surprised to see on this list in this role. knowing she has been a lightning rod for the right and for the left and she was critical of the supporters of bernie sanders as she was supporting hillary clinton in the 2016 primaries. tanden has deleted some of her tweets as the republicans are pointing out. they recognize the problem. this is really a test of joe biden's belief he can get a fair hearing from republicans on capitol hill. that his olive branchs, test he's made every day since the election to offer a message of unity will meet with reality on capitol hill. this is something i have heard from democrats as i was talking to them yesterday about the nominations. two takeaways. one is that republicans who have

yet to otherwise confirm or support the biden's election as president-elect will affirm it and acknowledge it in any way. suddenly are saber rattling about his nominee. so this larger question of why are they suddenly so familiar with tweets from one of his nominees when the president himself continues to tweet even through the night last night unsupported conspiracy theories about the election. they're not talking about that. it puts -- even raises the stakes further for georgia, and it can determine if we have a 50-50 senate with kamala harris as the tiebreaking vote or the mitch mcconnell led senate in which we can see the choices if not many of them facing much higher hurdles than many of trump's own nominees face than a republican senator over the last few years. >> mike memoli, thanks so much.

we should say again, none of this means that neera tanden or anyone else is above criticism on policy and other matters. >> of course not. >> they should be reviewed and voted on accordingly. but to be outraged by tweets is beyond rich after five years of them looking the other way. as president trump right now -- probably right now as we speak is in the midst of tweeting a lame coup to overturn a presidential election. >> it's beyond beyond rich. i mean, these republicans need to understand the tweets are out. they can't go after tweets, okay, of anybody that they are considering for a position because they have sat idly by while this president has tweeted daily lies about people, racist tropes. everything under the sun and until they come out and condemn the president's tweets for what they are, they're hypocrites and anything they have to say about anybody's tweets is completely

useless and we need to move on. tweets are out, guys. >> i have an idea. >> you lose. >> i have an idea. if john cornyn will come out and call out the president's tweets -- >> sure. >> from just yesterday. forget about all of the racist tweets and all of the hateful tweets that he put out. forget about the fact in my case the president caused extraordinary pain and suffering to a family who lost their daughter 19 years ago. >> yeah. >> and the president continued to try to sully her reputation. even after her grieving husband two decades later begged him to stop and he refused to stop. they didn't say anything about that. they didn't say anything about all of the other hateful tweets that he put out there. but why doesn't john cornyn just take from the time he made a

statement all of the president's tweet from that day and today and just condemn all of those tweets or explain all of those tweets before he starts talking about a handful of tweets from an omb director? >> the point, he's making it easy for you and you still can't do it. you're that lame. i mean, that you're inept that you can't stand up for what it comes from your president who lost -- who lost the election and is leaving and you will be dealing with him in the rearview mirror and with new people and you still can't do the right thing. >> still can't attack him. >> have a good time with this. still ahead on "morning joe," controversial white house coronavirus adviser scott atlas resigns as the country sees a sharp rise in cases and hospitals treat a record number of patients. we'll have the details and the very latest on the race for a vaccine for the coronavirus. "morning joe" will be right back.

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a controversial member of the coronavirus task force has resigned. dr. scott atlas -- >> a radiologist. like getting a podiatrist to work on your spine. >> all righty. he has -- >> my back hurts. i've got herniated discs and he can take care of that. >> he submitted his resignation does as his -- >> thank god. >> let's bring in political reporter monica alba. monica, was he qualified? what great -- >> i object. leading question.

leading question. >> monica, what did scott atlas do? >> well, listen, the fact that the president brought him on board to the white house in the first place was because he had seen him on fox news repeatedly. i think that tells you all you need to know, mika and joe, about his qualifications. this is somebody whose views far more closely aligned with the president's own on the coronavirus. he questioned the efficacy of face masks and he wondered if all children should go back to school without changing guidelines. so when the president would watch him on fox, he would say i need that doctor on my task force and that happened in late august. that is when you saw a notable shift from drs. birx and fauci who had become a near daily constant presence. telling americans what to be most cautious about.

really disappear. they were sidelined in favor of dr. atlas and they made their views very clear to the vice president and others on the task force saying we're not comfortable with any meetings in this situation room that involve dr. atlas. his input is controversial, misleading and we don't to have to be at the table with him and that's why we understand with sources close to the task force he stopped going months ago. so he was serving a 130-day detail which was set to expire this week. that's why he submitted his resignation yesterday in a letter to the president. he defended his views, but also we're not sure whether he was taking a government salary in that time. that's not something the white house has ever been clear about. he now -- it may seem will go back to stanford university which had to really distance itself publicly from him. because they said they didn't agree at all with any of the views he was endorsing on the virus. will he go back to the hoover institute, we're not quite sure. he was on leave there as a

fellow, but the other really important thing to point out here is that while dr. atlas wasn't at the briefings and wasn't at the task force meetings, he was the medal adviser responsible for giving the president the most advice and he wasn't even at the table for these meetings. so i think it's notable that now this week we've learned dr. birk can start talking to the incoming biden administration. dr. fauci at the staff letter has been in touch with them now that they can make this critical handover as the vaccine discussion takes center stage. we should point out there's a task force meeting scheduled at the white house. it will be led by the vice president. no indication that the president will attend. he hasn't been at one of those for five or six months and probably won't be before he leaves office, mika. >> scott atlas, future uncertain. thank you, monica. >> just think about the person who didn't get into stanford because scott atlas did, or better yet, the person -- the

student, the deserving scholar that didn't get in to penn because donald trump did. you know -- >> how about the person who could have been on the task force that actually could have saved lives instead of making the situation worse. i mean, look at the numbers. >> you know, at the beginning of this administration, the president would see generals -- commentators on fox news and say, i want them to run the doj. he was -- fortunately for america, he was talked of that for a year and at that point you had donald trump who was completely ignorant of how the military worked, completely ignorant about foreign policy and who he needed to run his administration. the state department, et cetera, et cetera. in this case, you saw scott atlas on tv spreading lies and in this case we now know because of bob woodward's tapes that the

president new better. the president knew about how deadly the coronavirus was. we have got it on tape. the president knew what had to be done. the president knew that yes, younger people could get infe infectinfec infected and could be dangerous for them. but you had someone on fox news saying, i need him in the administration because he's lying. >> yeah. he's of an entire class of people that the president has seen on tv, usually on fox news. and said i want that person in my administration for the simple reason that he's out defending me. this guy is a rhetorical bomb thrower. so he brings him into the government and he nudges aside people like dr. anthony fauci, like dr. deborah birx. he's a radiologist who had the

president's ear on a life and death matter as the toll total is up to 270,000 deaths. if you say nice things about me, defend me on tv, you have a job with me. no matter how important the job. in this case, defending the country against coronavirus. the failures in that have been outlined again and again and again. but it's what the president does. it's what he wants. it's loyalty and it's people who will say the things he wants to hear rather than the things that need to be heard. remember, scott atlas was for herd immunity, meaning let the disease run its course. he's a radiologist again saying this. he came out against mask wearing, against universal mask wearing, saying it should be case by case. recently a couple of weeks ago, in a tweet he wrote that the people of michigan should quote rise up because of new lockdown measures put forth by the governor in that state. he later said, no, i meant rise up, go vote the people out, although there was nothing to

vote for at that point, that's the election was over. that's the kind of person having the president's ear as this coronavirus has burned through the country. it's spreading fast in the month of november alone. it accounts for nearly a third of the 13.6 million cases reported since the pandemic began. the united states also accounts now for nearly 20% of the global death toll. meanwhile, hospitals nationwide are treating a record number of patients according to covid tracking project. there are over 93,000 hospitalized in the united states, mika. >> well, in rhode island, hospitals reached covid-19 capacities yesterday and opened field hospitals as the state began a two-week pause. in california, governor gavin newsom highlighted the intensive care units could be overloaded by the middle of december and could be close to full by

christmas. in new york, governor andrew cuomo announced that hospitalizations topped 3,500 over the weekend for first time since may. a statistic that could cause him to impose a regional based shutdown. he urged hospitals to begin asking retired nurses and doctors to help with staffing and also ordered hospitals in erie county to stop elective surgeries as it has the highest weekly positive test rates and led the state in deaths yesterday. in west virginia, governor jim justice announced yesterday that hospitals will cut back on elective surgeries to make room for covid patients as hospitalizations jumped by 29% over the past week. in kansas city, kansas hospitals and nurses officials voiced

concerns of a nursing shortage as health officials in the state announced over 4,400 added covid cases yesterday. so they don't have enough people to care for these people. in st. louis hospitals officials warned that hospitalizations may double in the span of two to three weeks if people do not quarantine after thanksgiving. this statistic comes as a hospital near st. louis set up a morgue trailer. canceled elective surgeries and doubled patients in rooms last week. this is the aftereffect of thanksgiving. we knew it was coming. and ahead of us is christmas. joining us now "morning joe" chief medical correspondent dr. david campbell and dr. vin gupta. the pulmonologist and medical contributor. dr. gupta, it just seems like no matter what we say, we meaning the scientific community and

people reporting what the scientific community is advis g advising, people are not heeding the warnings. >> good morning, mika. this is a really dangerous time before relief is on the near horizon. so i think it's really important to say to the american people, everybody viewing this come march into the summertime, we will have relief. in the next few months what i'm noticing, what my colleagues are noticing is that any type of travel needs to stop for all americans. we need to stay put for the next few weeks. because this is a thing. this is what i have noticed. i'm on the clinical services as we speak. this is what we're noticing. every family, most families, they have a loved one in the icu infected with covid-19. it's a surprise. it's generally a surprise that they were infected because this disease is unexpected. they didn't know that somebody unwittingly passed it to the family member on holiday, for

example. when they were traveling to see them. they didn't know that that family member who was vulnerable because of a pre-existing condition then got covid-19, then ended up seeing me or my colleagues in the icu a few days later. this is an unexpected disease, it transmits itself at easily. any type of travel given the transmission dynamics is dangerous so please stay home. it's too dangerous right now. mika, what i'll lastly say is we're seeing a surge of other types of reasons for why americans are coming in to the hospital and into the icu. that's why you're seeing staffing getting really stressed. you're seeing that the real key limitation here is not necessarily beds or ventilators but it's staffed beds and enough nurses, enough respiratory therapists, enough docs. this is a really, really, really challenging time. >> so here is lieutenant general

paul -- for operation warp speed. speaking optimistically yesterday, here on msnbc, about the availability of a vaccine in 2021. >> what is your expectations come june for how many americans will have had this vaccine? >> 100% of americans that want the vaccine will have had the vaccine by that point in time. we'll have over 300 million doses available to the american public well before then. >> so pharmaceutical companies moderna and pfizer have both filed for emergency use authorization for their covid-19 vaccines from the fda, which will be reviewed in the coming weeks. dr. dave, can you put this all into perspective for us, how hopeful, realistic is the news that everybody will have a vaccine very soon? i also like to caveat this with the worry that between now and then still much could happen. >> yeah, mika. we are clearly squarely in the

surge. that being said, even today the cdc advisory committee on immunization practices is meeting to determine who gets the vaccine first and most are suggesting it will be health care workers, first responders and older folks, people in nursing homes, those with underlying conditions. that's today. december 10th, pfizer's emergency use authorization is voted on. december 17th, moderna's. then we still have astrazeneca. that's that third vaccine that's passed phase 3 trials. the path is less clear to when and if they'll have an eua and then the johnson & johnson vaccine which is exciting because it's the -- it will be the single dose vaccine when and if it becomes approved and so we have four vaccines that everybody is looking at that are

exciting. but we have to get through the surge. and as dr. gupta said, we have to do everything possible to minimize the transmission. down here in florida, it's rather pitiful. down here in florida, our governor is still deciding to tell the public that face masks aren't the way to go. >> my god. >> it's a concern that we all have. yeah. >> and it's outrageous. dr. gupta, i mean we look at that sound bite, okay by june, if he's right, everyone who wants the vaccine can get it. well, there are six or seven month between here and there and people shouldn't even travel. what should states be doing? because, you know, we have lived through this in new york, you have lived through it in the state of washington, treating covid patients out there. what else would you like to see? national mask mandates? what could stem this a little bit at least to get us to the vaccine? >> well, willie, good to see

this. this is what the data is showing us, and it's suggesting and should be of some relief that those with young children, elementary schools, children 7 and younger, for example, that it's actually okay for them to go back to school. it's obviously good for their mental health and overall well-being and it doesn't seem like those children, those young children add to the transmissions so you're seeing more of a movement to say let's open up those schools for young children, child care for young children, but let's be mindful of indoor dining. outdoor dining to the extent possible come wintertime, takeout, of course. but you can't have just curfews. covid-19 doesn't just transmit itself after 11:00 p.m. at night. so you need to think about a full stop on indoor dining as community transmission rates really increase as hospitalization rates increase as well. that's one.

you know, in places like florida, for example, where there is such a backlash on masks, i wonder if a mask mandate is even going to be effective. you know, you need to think about necessarily enforcement and number three, i will say, willie, the big killer here is not going stock lack of ventilators. again, it's going to be human personnel adequately trained personnel. i'm seeing and hearing this from friends in texas, often you have -- you don't have the pulmonologists in the hospitals and they'll ask somebody who is appropriately trained but who is covering ten hospitals that's the big issue here is human personnel. so federalizing a response is really key. because we have military medical assets that have been underutilized for a variety of reasons who have expertise, but

this is why americans needlessly are going to lose their life unfortunately regardless of whatever we do, but it's about mitigation of that loss of life. >> all right. nbc news has learned that a bipartisan group of senators spent the thanksgiving break working on a new covid relief package. but sources warn that chances of success may be slim. the senators working on trying to keep millions of americans from losing benefits set to expire by the end of the year are democrats mark warner, chris coons, joe manchin and michael bennett and dick durbin, the number two democrat in the senate. republicanss involved in the informal talks are mitt romney, susan collins, rob portman and lisa murkowski. i'm assuming, kasie hunt, they're not going to get anywhere even though they're trying. are the stumbling blocks still

republicans at this point who don't seem to see the need? >> well, mika, it's a good sign that they're trying. i think it underscores the frustration across the board with the fact that they haven't been able to get anything done at all. but the stumbling blocks remain what they are. democrats still are saying that state and local governments need money because they are grappling with this crisis. republicans are opposed to that by and large, at least certainly in the amounts that the democrats want. and republicans want to shield companies from liability around this and democrats say that's not fair. but i think it's clear on both sides of the aisle that we really need more funding that is specifically oriented at fighting the virus. and the reality is that all of the political disputes are holding up that along with all of the other needed money and dr. dave campbell, i'm curious

what your thoughts are on where that money needs to go. i mean, i hear a lot about vaccine distribution in particular because states are going to have the responsibility for getting this vaccine distributed. >> yeah. so if we look at what is the critical part of this problem right now, and it is that we have to implement the vaccines as they're produced. we have to distribute them as they're produced. we know that right now about 60% of those in the united states would choose to have the vaccine. and i think our reporting suggests that as the vaccine rolls out, we could see that number increase. so if we get 20 million people vaccinated this month, and then we have everybody else that is willing to be vaccinated get immunized by june, that in and of itself would be a good investment of that money in a lot of opinions.

>> all right, drs. dave campbell and vin gupta, thank you. coming up we'll talk to one of the lawmakers reportedly involved in the renewed covid relief talks. democrat mark warner will be our guest. 2020 has been a tough year for many of us and if you're looking to give back to communities in need, today is the day. it's giving tuesday. giving tuesday was launched back in 2012 as a way to promote charitable acts of giving after consumers spent billions of dollars on black friday weekend and cyber monday. whether it's making someone smile, helping out a neighbor, or giving some of what we have to those in need every act of generosity counts. "morning joe" is coming right back.

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welcome back to "morning joe." willie, i have got to say, you're looking at the picture of new york city. and i know all across america -- >> it's a comcastic day. >> two things, it's a comcastic day and two, i have to get to that city real, real soon. it is -- it's matrix 3 there. of course, we don't want to discourage you from visiting new york city. >> please. >> if you did, then my god, willie, look at the comcast commerce tree. it just -- it makes little boys and little girls around the world want to rush to new york

city and start buying things and look at that. look at the people just streaming through there. oh, my, this is straight out of "it's a wonderful life." i'm expecting jimmy stewart to rush up there and yell, mary, mary. a little different. little different. looks like mr. potter is having his way this holiday season. >> at least flip the lights on or something. well, they're going to do that on wednesday. tomorrow night they'll turn on the tree. we'll get the lights. it is -- everything about this time is bizarre. it's tragic, but it's bizarre to be in new york city during the holidays to walkout side the building and where you catch the subways and the crowds are so big. i'll walk out today and i'll see four or five people. it's a strange scene and it's a sad scene, frankly, out there right now. >> well, it is a scene that we

expect to change fairly dramatically. >> next six months. >> even over the next three to four months. i think you'll see activity over the next three months, four months. depends on how quickly the vaccines come online. i think you're right, willie. by easter, just like the president said last year, by easter, i think you're going to really start seeing things come alive and then americans can look at that screen and say, my god, my god, how can i be in new york city? >> all right. >> that is awful. >> gentlemen -- >> oh, my lord. >> let's just pray. a lot of suffering. >> remember, neo gets above the clouds and they see the sun for first time in their lives? it's beautiful. well, you won't get that in new york city today. >> yeah. >> not a chamber of commerce day. mika, what's next? >> one of the next guests says trump's election lies are an

attempted coup. yes, it is and that the biden and other democrats -- the democrats should say so. please, president trump has raised over $150 million since the election appealing. so using his lies and the poor people who believe them to take their money. "morning joe" is right back. "morning joe" is right back. chop salsas, spoon thick smoothie bowls, even power through dough, and never stall. the ninja foodi power pitcher. rethink what a blender can do.

a trump streaming network. they have a few shows in

development. there's who wants to pretend to be a billionaire. whitish. and dictators in cars getting coffee. [ laughter ] you know my favorite, my favorite he's coming one, judge rudy. >> nice. >> oh, my, no, no one is watching that. welcome back to "morning joe." it's tuesday, december 1st. along with joe, willie and me, we have pulitzer prize winning columnist and associate editor of "the washington post," eugene robinson. former u.s. senator now an msnbc news and msnbc political analyst, claire mccaskill. good to have you both with us this hour. >> claire, of course, we think that people in both parties should be vetted. they should be -- their record should be examined if they've done things that republicans disagree with or democrats -- fine. talk about it and go through it.

that's what we do here. a lot of people thought i was way too tough on george w. bush and then they thought i was way too tough on barack obama and then they thought i was way too tough on donald trump. but you're in the public spotlight you're going to criticize people. but i must say, it was pretty hard listening to some of your former colleagues attack a biden appointee on -- wait for it, wait for it -- mean tweets. >> yeah. you know, honestly, it's a little weird that somebody's twitter account would be used as the touch stone for confirmation. you know, i think most of those senators have pretty tough bark on the tree. i mean, if you are a united states senator you take a lot of

incoming. there's a lot of haters out there. i don't care who you are, where you're from, there's just a lot of ugly on social media. and the fact that we have a nominee that's incredibly qualified for the omb and they are now deciding that the twitter universe is where they're going to wage this battle, especially when the general of the haters, the general who leads the troops down the corridor of hate on twitter is none other than the guy that they're hiding under their desk from because they're afraid they might offend him. think of all the things that trump said on twitter about them. donald trump with some regularity takes after republican members of the senate that don't do his bidding. so it is a little weird that they're going to die on this hill. i have to believe that they're

going to have to come up with oh, she hurt my feelings, something better than she hurt my feelings on twitter. that's just bizarre. >> yeah. yeah. it is. it is -- it's just a parallel reality. by the way, prominent conservative attorney george conway tweeted this of the gop's opposition to tanden as omb. quote, so if i have this right, republican senators who didn't seem to care that an omb director illegally allowed the president to withhold congressionally mandated security assistance to a foreign ally so the president could extort personal help from the ally in support of whacked out conspiracy theories to bolster the president's re-election cam pin think it's disqualifying that a nominee tweeted uncomplimentary things about

them. fair enough? >> there's more from cornyn vowing to take the biden administration to task for what the gop was willing to overlook time and time and time again during the trump administration. >> when it comes to the business dealings of those who could serve in high-ranking government positions, full transparency is the only option. i will not support any nominee who doesn't provide full transparency into their work on behalf of a foreign government. >> gene robinson, are there no mirrors in john cornyn's house? i'm serious. >> no. >> how is someone so shameless at this stage in their political career that they can after apologizing for donald trump and you have to say, his sleazy business dealings. the fact that he refuses to release any of his tax records. the fact that he refuses to tell us where he's getting his loans

from, where he's getting any of his money from, is now saying i shall not allow a biden appointee through without them being completely transparent on their foreign business dealings. has he given a floor speech about donald trump's lack of transparency? hell, i'd even settle for a floor speech on rudy giuliani's lack of transparency in foreign business dealings. >> right. or any member of his cabinet. betsy devos, any of the -- almost any candidate member. a lot of his other appointees. you know, the irony police are doing to be really, really busy over the next couple of months, i think. and they're going to have to build more irony prisons for these republican senators who are just making ridiculous arguments. you know, they spend four years apologizing for the leading

twitter troll in the world, donald trump, and they go after neera tanden for her mean tweets and even to say the word transparency while donald trump is still president and to say they're going to demand transparency when they didn't even make polite requests for any measure of transparency, from any member of the trump administration including the president himself who has never released his taxes, by the way. and other pertinent financial data, it's just ridiculous. and i -- they're going to have to come up with, as claire said, they have to come up with something better than this if they want to make a stink about biden appointees because this stuff is just ridiculous. >> it is. as president trump levels one false claim about the election after another, there is new reporting that this may all just be a money making operation for

trump. sources tell "the washington post" that president trump has raised more than $150 million since election day as his campaign has continued to garner donations to fund his attempts to overturn the election results. quote, the influx of political donations is one reason trump and some allies are inclined to continue a legal onslaught and public affairs blitz focused on baseless claims of election fraud, the paper reports. much of the money raised since the election is likely to go into the account for the president to use on political activities after he leaves office. while some of the contributions will go toward what's left of the legal fight. the donations are purportedly being solicited for the official election defense fund. the fund-raising requests are

being made by the make america great committee. the contributions from thousands of grass roots donors across the country split into several accounts including the leadership pac, that is loosely regulated and could be used to personally benefit the president after he leaves the white house. let's put a frame around that for a second and according to the fine print in the latest fund-raising appeals the vast low dollar donations would go toward financing the president's new leadership pac. instead of efforts to support the party or to finance voting lawsuits. "the new york times" reports that a donor has to give $5,000 -- $5,000 to trump's new pac before any funds go to his recount account. any possibility, joe, that these funds could be used to help him defend himself from whatever awaits him when he leaves office? >> i don't know. but it certainly the vast

majority of this is not going into any legal challenges because most of the legal challenges are already extinguished. but you look at the fine print here. reminds me of the fine print before that tulsa rally where donald trump sent out -- to supporters saying, please come to my tulsa rally and then read the fine print. by the way, it can kill you but it's not our fault. >> herman cain was in. >> hey, i have to fight all the chicanery. i'm sure he's used that word. that's going out there. so we can overturn these election results and then you read the fine print. willie, it says, basically in effect, the overwhelming majority of this is going to be the unregulated pac that i can use going forward and is not going to be used for lawsuits or any recounts. >> it's a hustle, it's a grift, he continues to lose in court. he's not even sending real lawyers out the make the case.

he's sending rudy giuliani and the rest of the lawyers in that clown car out to prosecute the case. the answer is because he's raised between $150 million according to "the washington post" or $170 million according to "the new york times" since election day. raised money since election day, ostensibly to help in this alleged legal fight but it's to put money into the super pac, claire mccaskill. 75% of it goes into the save america super pac for donald trump. plain and simple, this is a hustle and he's hustling the very people who stood by him for five years now. most of the reporting shows that this is largely small donors. these aren't fat cats pouring millions of dollars into the super pacs. these are people who voted for him and he's using that trust to take their money. >> and they are happy to give it. i mean, all he has to do is turn on the faucet and there are

people who will send in the hard-earned money and many of them, you know, are not financially fat, so to speak. so it is sad to me that he is willing to do this and here's the one thing i will tell you. all of that money, just as sure as the sun coming up in the morning, a lot of it's going to end up at trump properties. this is one of his biggest grifts. the amount of money -- political money that has gone in to the trump coffers while he's been president. the biggest example of course is right there in d.c. the trump hotel where they jack up rates whenever trump is going to do an event there. obviously, he's got -- he jacked up the admission fees down at mar-a-lago to get -- to make more money off the presidency. this is a guy -- a family enterprise, this is what is so bizarre about the republicans not speaking up. this is a family enterprise that's personally profited off

the presidency. unprecedented. i mean, there are presidents who make money after they leave office. but i'm not sure there's ever been one who has made this kind of money while he's in office off the presidency. and that's what's going to happen to this money. a bunch will flow to the trump enterprise. >> well, you know, the president's raising it on some national cable television broadcasts because there are people who -- that's what -- he's able to have free commercials at this point with certain reporters and hosts who allow him to go on to drone on about this for up to an hour. it is disgraceful. it is malpractice. it is a really sad state of affairs for the people who are allowing themselves to be used this way, who will find themselves paying the price and trump will not give a damn about them. >> well -- >> they're being used. >> it's a coup. >> but they're so stupid. i mean, i don't understand the stupidity.

>> it's a coup attempt. i mean, but think about what's being hurt right now in the long run by what donald trump is doing. it's really -- it's not the democrats because the democrat -- joe biden's -- everybody knows the democrats are going to have the presidency on january the 20th. think about that 150, 161, $170 million. that's not money that democrats are ever going to get. that's money from republican donors. that's money that would help republicans running in the special elections in the state of georgia or helping them prepare for 2022. right now, donald trump is savaging the republican party. he's taken since the election $170 million out of republican candidates' pockets and at the

same time he has created a civil war in the state of georgia among republicans. a political civil war where now donald trump is attacking the republican governor, who kowtowed to him blindly over the past several years. he's attacking the republican secretary of state who voted for donald trump and supported republican candidates his entire life and now the conspiracy theories are abounding that even kelly loeffler, one of the two republicans in the special election was involved in a conspiracy with republican governor kemp to keep doug collins off the ballot. that it was rigged, that a lawyer who's been pleading donald trump's case is now saying even one of the two republican senators are all a part of this conspiracy theory. so again, it's not the democrats who are being hurt by what donald trump's doing now. it's the republicans and yet,

most of the republican senators remain silent even as some conservative outlets are starting to actually criticize the president. >> yeah. the editors of the national review write about trump's disgraceful end game. reading from the editorial, quote, there are legitimate issues about the mail-in ballots and the process of counting votes but make no mistake, the petulant refusal of one man to accept the verdict of the american people. the trump team and much of the gop is working backwards desperately trying to find something, anything to support the president's aggrieved feelings rather than objectively considering the evidence and reacting as warranted. almost nothing that the trump

team has alleged has withstood the slightest scrutiny. getting defeated is a blow to the most thick skinned politicians and engenders bitterness and anger. what america's long suspected is that losing candidates swallow those feelings and at least pretend to be gracious if trump's not capable of it, he should at least stop waging the war on the outcome and just pointing out, joe, that trump as a result of this petulant behavior is putting these people through these ridiculous, you know -- putting them in ridiculous situations whether it be in the media or fellow republicans, or the different states that are counting an counting. he keeps losing. again and again and again. so it's like trump lost georgia again. trump lost georgia, again. how many times does he want to lose? how many times does he want the

word loser -- loser of the election just stamped right across his name, right across his face? this is something he hates, being a loser. his whole world is not about being a loser. he created a show about winning and losing. he's obsessed with losers. he calls people who were captured in war and injured losers. he calls people who fought for our country and died losers. he has this obsession with the word loser. he's a loser. he needs to move on. >> well, something, willie, we said a couple of weeks ago the dynamics were not going to change. and i didn't understand why he didn't just -- you know, he can be bitter in his exit. he could say he was ripped off and then make his exit from this, but instead, mika's right.

he sets himself up every day to be declared the loser again of georgia. to be declared the loser again of wisconsin. to be declared the loser again of michigan. it's never going to turn out differently. it's always going to end -- he's always going to lose. and yet, we have known he has no discipline. but you would think he would be selfish enough to understand that all he's doing is setting up to look like a loser every day. moving forward. >> yeah. it's amazing to read that piece from the national review where you have conservative outlets having to speak to the president like he's a difficult child. like we know how hard it is to lose, we know how frustrating it can be. but sometimes you have to accept defeat and move on. live to fight another day. but president trump i don't think views himself as a loser here. i think what he's going for is martyrdom. he wants to be seen at least in the eyes of the supporters as someone who fought to the very

end, had an election stolen from him which of course he didn't which we see certified again and again and go out into the world as that martyr. never concede the election. we just heard from kasie hunt earlier this morning saying some of these republican senators may never acknowledge he lost, may never say president-elect joe biden. they'll go on and conduct their business as if this didn't happen, which is a shocking thing to have said. but probably true. but donald trump is not going to call himself a loser, he's not going to view himself that way. he's going to keep fighting -- >> very wrong. >> in the state of georgia, he's going to say, well, there was another flaw in the system there. somebody didn't match a signature here. it can go on endlessly. what we do and what the country has begun to do is just to move on. to move past it and to ignore it and if he wants to have fake meetings with rudy giuliani in arizona, he can do that even while the governor is certifying the election results in joe biden's favor. he can do those things. but they're not going to make a difference in what happens in

the country except for those 75 million people who voted for donald trump and are believing what comes out of his mouth that's the real danger here. >> joining us from the dean obadiah show, his new piece, trump's election lies are an attempted coup. why should they say so? they're trying to move on above the fray and not get into the gutter of ridiculousness which was peter out on its own anyway. >> first, i would say to that, if they saw this in any other country, a president lost the election clearly and for a month, there was fraud, it was rigged, trying to get his own fbi involved, pressured the elected officials to break the law like kemp in georgia, you will say that looks like a

political coup or that's an authoritarian who wants to back slide the democracy there. i respect joe biden a great deal. he wants to be above this. i talked to experts on authoritarianism. that's the exact wrong answer. what you're doing is emboldening him and you're normalizing the worst behavior. you have republicans, 75%, 80% believing that the election is a fraud, making it harder for joe biden to govern. that's one thing. secondly, is every election is the new normal that you claim fraud for every month? even rudy giuliani, he went into federal court in pennsylvania, he said this is not a fraud case. trump's lawyers in arizona said this is not a fraud case. i'm a lawyer, joe's a lawyer, we can't lie to the judges because we'll get disbarred. it's one thing you can't do that

as a lawyer because you'll lose your license. the only fraud in this election is donald j. trump and it's time for joe biden to stand up for our democracy. you might get republicans who are in the middle of to come along. because you know what? this is an attack on our democracy for a whole month. where's the proof? there's none. that's when it comes a political coup. >> mika, just so people who think this to call this a coup are hyperbolic, or an attempted coup, look at the definition in wikipedia. typically it's an illegal unconstitutional attempt to seize power by a political faction. definition of coup. if you're already in power it's an auto coup. if you look at the definition, i guess i would say to trump defenders, if it's not an

attempted coup, if it's not an illegal unconstitutional attempt to seize power by a political faction when he's trying to call people to the white house to get them to change their votes, trying to call the governor of arizona to try to stop him from doing legally what he has to do which is to certify the election results trying to get those in michigan and wayne county to illegally not certify the votes there. if republicans don't think it's a coup or doesn't fit this definition of a coup in all four corners then i'd love to hear what they would call it. mika? >> i think first of all, the question is for all of -- for this long laundry list of assaults on our democracy and i'll throw it back to dean, shouldn't this president be held accountable? but to joe's point, yes, it would be great to hold this attempted coup, this president accountable. but wouldn't that be done by

republicans and democrats who are right now in power and why isn't that happening? >> you have democrats who are following joe biden's lead of taking the higher road. i understand what joe biden is standing for. i would like to see america unify. maybe we bring the temperature down a little bit. if you look at the history of mussolini, putin f you don't stand up them, they get emboldened, they get worse. i'm from jersey, we speak bluntly. channel your inner biden, give us a come on man. you're making it -- your silence is making it clear this is normal. you yell it's rigged. this cannot be the united states of america. you must stand up. you can't allow this to be normalized. we'll be a banana republic.

o on our way to authoritarianism. there are democracies that have back slid to authoritarianism. it can't happen here. that's my concern. >> thank you, dean, i hope you come back. gene robinson, i'm looking at this definition when dean came on. the coup, it's an illegal constitutional attempt to seize power by a political faction. i'm looking at the legal definition of it. illegal, unconstitutional. attempt to seize power by a political faction. what part of that definition does not apply directly to what donald trump's trying to do here? >> there's no part that doesn't apply. it all applies. that's what this -- this looks,

walks and quacks like. i covered south america and i saw attempted and successful coups. we don't have tanks in the street at this point, but i also saw a strong man leader do things like reject elections and try to dissolve parliaments and that sort of thing and we called them coups. and that's what this attempt is -- it really is. so let's go back for a second so that national review editorial who was good and i appreciate it. but they shouldn't have to start by saying, well, you know, there are all -- there are legitimate reasons to worry about mail-in balloting. however -- well, actually there are no legitimate reasons to worry about mail-in balloting and fraud because there has been none. none has been demonstrated.

and they shouldn't have to say that, you know -- the sort of weasel back in to it language when they should come out. they shouldn't have to say virtually nothing that they have shown in court that the trump people have shown in court than legitimate or -- you know? absolutely nothing. absolutely nothing has turned outbound to true and they just need -- so we need to start saying it as dean said in plain language -- >> and where's the accountability? >> this is totally manufactured. this is totally unacceptable. >> it is totally manufactured. >> and making a lot of money. >> totally unacceptable. claire mccaskill, i know that there are a lot of republicans and a lot of trump supporters that are repelled by facts, but we have been repeating this fact

from election day because we feared this would happen. that there would be a period of questioning of the election results and feared it before the election. specifically in three states. in wisconsin, in michigan, and in pennsylvania. and well before the election the republican legislators there were begged to allow the supervisors of elections and the counties across those three states to do what the state of florida did and count the ballots as they came in. so like the state of florida, you could know by 10:00 on election night who won the state. we knew by 10:00, 11:00 at night that donald trump won the state of florida. but you look at what happened in those three states run by

republican legislators, again, who were begged -- begged to count the votes. let them count the votes before election night. if they had done that, then we would have known who was president of the united states by midnight on election night, november 3rd. >> yeah. and they want to talk now about quote/unquote data dumps. well, yes, there were -- there was data that was added to the totals after the election day was over because these were in fact urban areas that had hundreds of thousands of votes and that were overwhelmingly in favor of joe biden. there's no -- there's nothing going on here. there's -- move along, folks, nothing to see, this is normal. it would have been a different order if in fact the republican legislators would have allowed them to count the votes before

the polls closed as opposed to after the polls closed. so that's why these late breaking results favored joe biden. it was a republican plan to do that. and, you know, i've got to disagree a little bit about the idea that biden ought to be pounding the podium calling this a coup. you know, this whole election has been about a contrast between joe biden and trump in terms of how they govern. their demeanor. whether they're capable of humility. reliance on the institutions to protect the rule of law. that's what joe biden is doing in this post election period. he is relying on that contrast and it's working. his numbers are going up. donald trump's numbers are going down. and the institutions -- let's underline this. one in 39 -- one in 39 that's

the record in court for the pretend lawyers that donald trump is trotting out on conservative media and many of those decisions are by trump appointees or republican appointees. so the institutions are in fact holding, the rule of law is holding and i think joe biden is doing the right thing by continuing to be presidential in the traditional sense of the word and allowing the courts to do the heavy lifting which is making a decision, which isn't hard for them, because there's no evidence. and you can't go to court without evidence. so i think joe biden has got this right and i think it will serve him well getting the critical mass of support he needs to go mano a mano with republicans in congress. >> and the republicans that go along with this just, you

know -- just highway down to the stupid highway on these, you know, fake lawsuits and whatever else, president-elect biden will be president and i'm sure he'll remember that. back to the coronavirus now and states across the country seeing a spike in coronavirus cases. colorado is no exception with the state once again breaking its record for the amount of people hospitalized with covid-19. again, a virus. other countries have other control and we are here. yesterday over 1,800 hospital patients were confirmed with the virus. this brings the total number of cumulative hospitalizations in the state to over 13,000 and in another alarming statistic, currently 79% of icu beds in colorado are currently occupied. and the seven-day moving average of in use icu beds is at 80%.

joining us now dean of the colorado school of public health, doctor, good to have you on the show. this is frightening new data that we are reporting this morning. how is it -- what are you hearing about the state of colorado in terms of having enough doctors and nurses on the front lines? >> so good morning. of course we're watching very closely what is happening. right now, looking at the numbers, we have the beds, we have the icu beds and our -- and we have a comfortable margin between where we are and where we hope things won't go. i think if you look at the colorado reports, the biggest stress that may come is in fact having the right people -- doctors, nurses, respiratory therapists and others to take care of the rising number of

patients. >> it's willie geist, doctor. can you outline the restrictions in place in the state of colorado right now and whether you think it's enough at this point. >> well, the restrictions are by county and 22 of our counties are in so-called red level which means they're quite restricted. bars and restaurants are closed except for takeout. we have mask orders. we have had the statewide mask order for quite a while. the question do we have enough is what we're waiting for. what is the impact of what happened with mixing and mingling over thanksgiving. people did what they should have done, which is to stay home and not mingle with their friends and colleagues as everybody would like to do. we're watching the numbers closely. november 20th when the season really started is 10, 11 days ago and we'll see if numbers goes up. yesterday in colorado we added

80 to the number in hospitals which is quite a jump over what we saw over the weekend. i think the next week will tell if we'll hit peaks that we have projected could happen if we -- if they don't do what we need to do as coloradans. >> as you know, there isn't much of a national strategy since back in january and february when this was percolating. if there were let's see from the new biden administration a national strategy, what would be helpful to you at the state level? what should the federal government be doing right now? >> well, i think there's a number of issues. one, of course, just relates to having the right personal protective equipment in place and having enough of it across the nation and assuring that is coordinated. i think there are places where people mix and mingle that might be better controlled. our travel for example, our interstate travel, which is an issue of having coordination. of course, the virus doesn't know state bounds and having integrated approaches so that people from hot zones are not

coming into colorado or other states would be important. ski season is here. again, we have lots of visitors, the ski industry wants to continue on with cautions this year and if we knew that people coming in had taken the same measures across the country, i think it would be very helpful. colorado is a place that people come to visit. we track that carefully and we hope that those who come are not infected. >> all right. dean at the colorado school of public health, thank you very much. coming up our next guest has served in several democratic administrations from white house chief of staff and budget director to treasury secretary. former aide to presidents obama and clinton, jack lew, is standing by on how the cabinet picks are going so far. "morning joe" is coming right back.

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iowa's state canvassing board officially certified election results yesterday with president trump carrying the state. the state also certified the results of a tight race in iowa's second congressional district where the republican candidate won the seat by just six votes after a recount. democrat christy smith conceded to incumbent california congressman mike garcia. the republican hold means that so far the party did not lose any congressional seats to democratic challengers this year. and according to the cook political report, republicans won 27 of the 27 house districts identified as tossups. claire, a lot to learn from there? >> well, this really if you want to dissect it, mika, this is what's driving the republican's

silence right there. there was no political price to pay for blind allegiance to somebody who lies every day. donald trump. that trumpism was not disqualifying in districts where many of us thought it might be. and that's a wake-up call for the strength of this -- and, you know, this is going to continue, mika. you're going to see other republican senators are going to try to mimic what trump did. they're going to try to emulate him. you already see kind of marco rubio doing weird barking about, you know, that the foreign policy team of biden is somehow china, you know, friendly, all the silly stuff that's simply not true. and so what this election said to the democratic party is you can't just rely on trumpism to

be your weapon of choice against republican incumbents. there's got to be more. i think it is startling that no gop house member lost the election and we need to remind ourselves of that on a consistent basis so we don't take anything for granted in two years. >> there's got to be more. i totally agree with you. can't just say it's trumpism, see it's bad. let's go all do the things we want to do there's got to be more of an at tell to bring both sides together. joining us now is jack lew who served under both presidents obama and clinton. first, weigh in on this and these districts that everyone thought, oh, my gosh for sure, for sure they will turn against trump. they did not. where's the disconnect, where's the work that democrats need to do? what is it? >> good morning, mika.

good to be with you. i think the election was a clear win for vice president and president-elect joe biden and a clear message that we need to make government work again. i think that right now is the measure of whether or not congress got the message. will they respond during the weeks that remain this year and provide additional relief to americans who are still hurting from the covid crisis. millions of americans who could lose their homes to eviction. millions of americans who don't have food to put on the table. i think the way to reach those americans who want their government to work is to make it work again. i think the economic team that president-elect biden has named has exactly the background and the experience and the skills to get that done. >> secretary lew, willie geist, good to have you here this morning. let's talk about the massive job they have in front of them. janet yellen will be in your old position and when you look at

the group of the bipartisan senators getting together for covid relief what are the early steps that need to happen to obviously this is a joint crisis right now. the health crisis leading to the economic crisis that can't be treated separately so what does the economic team need to do on day one to begin to tamp down this economic water fall of problems? >> well, i think that this economic team brings the most impressive background in terms of expertise and experience and knowledge of how to get things done. it's a group of people who understand from their life's experience what it means for government to work or not work. whether it's janet yellen who is worldly respected for her economics and her policy, and grew up in brooklyn understanding how people struggle.

odeyama, who worked his way up through ucla to make it to the most -- the highest levels of government at a very young age. you know, to ceci rouse, a renowned labor economist and brought empathy to all of the policy discussions. this is an extraordinary team, uniform in background in terms of expertise, but diverse, representing the broad country that has to come together. i think it's an outstanding team. >> an outstanding team. we see the lineup in front of us. and what do they need to do with a congress -- let's say it remains in the hands of the republicans and mitch mcconnell is the majority leader they haven't gotten anywhere over the last six months in terms of getting economic relief to people, a new tranche of it anyway. how can this group of advisers that you just laid out work with a congress that hasn't shown the

willingness to get much better for those whose businesses are closing and whose lives are turned upside down? >> so willie, the test is can they convince senators one at a time that the time for action is now. i think the bar is too high, if the question is can any one of them dislodge mitch mcconnell from a position he's made for political reasons. what they're going to need to do is what they're all very good at. i mean, janet yellen is superb at communicating, explaining, helping senators who should understand the urgency of the moment. to see what they need to do. this is going to be hard, no doubt about it. president-elect biden comes in with a relationship with senator mcconnell. i sat in negotiations with them many times. i know that they know how to work together. i have absolutely confidence that president-elect biden wants to get something done and he has a team of experts who are

pragmatic about finding those places. dislodging the immovable object will be hard. i don't contest that. but this is a team that can do it if it can be done. >> secretary lew, gene robinson has a question for you. gene? >> so jack, you know that since the democrat has now been elected president, republicans are going to rediscover the deficit and say, oh, horror of horrors we're spending too much money. this at a time when we should be pumping money into the economy to support small businesses and individuals through this awful covid period. how much money should we be spending now and how should the biden team get around this inevitable shift of mcconnell and the republicans to being once again deficit hawks? >> gene, you know, the rich sense of the irony here is just

staggering. just a few years ago, the same republicans couldn't care less about the cost of the tax cut that was irresponsible and that added $2 trillion to the deficit. that was the time to worry about what was the fiscal projection because the economy was healthy. today is not the time. today we have an economy is only going to come back when we get beyond the health crisis. we need more federal support to deal with the health crisis, and we are not going to be able to see a full recovery of the economy if we see millions of people evicted from their homes, if we see small businesses shutter up permanently. there is an urgent need now for more assistance. there will be a time to have that debate. it is not now. and it was before the crisis. it will be when we get to the other side of it. and unemployment is back to a normal level and the economy is growing steadily again. i just think that the idea of calling the economy now healthy

is ludacris. if you took a snapshot of unemployment now, the lost growth in the economy from the beginning of the crisis, it looks more like a lingering recession than a healthy economy. clearly, we bounced back a lot when the economy reopened, but not to a place we should be satisfied with. i, for one, don't understand why a lot of these republican senators aren't hearing more about it from their constituents who are hurting. >> former treasury secretary, jack lew, thank you for being on the show this morning. gene robinson, thank you as well. we will be reading your column for "the washington post." he is like pac-man. still ahead, i so aged myself there, still ahead, we will be joined by senator mark warner who says congress can't let another holiday go by without passing a comprehensive relief

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wisconsin's elections board yesterday confirmed president-elect joe biden his win over president trump by about 27,000 votes yesterday following a partial recount that cost $3 million paid for by trump. in the end, the recount added to biden's overall winning margin. for most politicians, when the white house calls you pick up the phone. but the opposite was true yesterday for arizona's governor who put his cell on mute much to the chagrin of the president. how that state just closed the door even further on trump's wild claims of election fraud.

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better relationship with the president and when there is a need in arizona, i talked to him directly. i had to change the ringtone on my phone and it rings "hail to the chief" because i didn't want to miss another phone call directly from the white house. >> oh, that is cold. >> you didn't. >> that is cold. >> you didn't do that. >> when you call somebody and you are watching them and they look at the phone -- >> and they turn it over. and he they mute it. >> arizona's republican governor, doug ducey, yesterday,

he was signing the certification documents that declared joe biden the winner of the state. >> that's cold. could i get a blanket over here? it's chilly. >> here you go. >> willie, do you have a blanket? >> do you need one? sometimes he needs his little night-night. >> no. so, willie, that's the governor of arizona, and donald trump's watching him as he is about to certify this, and trump starts calling him, tried to get -- i mean -- >> that is unbelievable. >> tried to get him to stop doing what he is legally required to do. >> that is the final scene in the movie where you had a republican who felt like he always had to answer to donald trump literally ignoring donald trump and silencing the music that welcomes the president into a room. "hail to the chief," as he

certifies the election in the last swing state to be certified, which basically puts the final nail in the coffin, as if we needed one. that was done a long time ago. there is your closing scene right there. >> that's just moving on. >> and, mika, you have him calling the governor of arizona to try to stop the certification, the legal certification. what the governor has to do by law, you had the president of the united states actually calling michigan legislators to the white house to try to get in the way of them doing what they are legally required to do. you know, put the electors in that would represent the millions of people that voted for donald trump. you had him trying to interfere from beginning to end. we are now, when we are going to show this for you, you are now even getting publications like the national review, who called up the president a few times in

the post-election, post-election period. but just saying enough is enough. "the wall street journal" editorial page even brought themselves to saying as much a week or two ago. so everybody knows the gig's up. for some reason, republican senators and mitch mcconnell just can't let those words cross their lips. >> talk about the height of needy. calling while he is certifying on television. like i must stop this, and then having the guy not take his call publicly. that's, in trump's mind, that's pain. . as willie mentioned, the six most hotly contested battleground states in the 2020 presidential race have now certified their election results cementing joe biden's victory over donald trump. the state of arizona certified its election results yesterday. solidifying joe biden's win and clearing the way for mark kelly

to take a seat in the u.s. senate as soon as tomorrow. after governor doug ducey signed off on the official documents, president trump released a torrent of disparaging tweets about the republican. if you want to know what was going to be said on that phone call, you can just go on twitter. in one instance, trump seemingly agreed with a comment that ducey, quote, betrayed the people of arizona. ducey, who campaigned with trump during his re-election bid, has stuck by the integrity of the state's voting system despite the president's unrelenting and unfounded fraud claims. >> we are hearing this, willie, time and again from local republicans, whether it's governor kemp or governor ducey. these governors that have kowtowed to donald trump and have believed that their political futures depended on donald trump's supporting them. but you get to a point where you

have to choose yourself between breaking the law, going against what the state, the laws of your state require you to do as an elected official, and subverting, in effect, subverting the democratic will of millions of voters in your own state. are doing what a sitting president, who is trying to pull off a coup, unconstitutionally, illegally trying to overturn the will of 80 million voters, you've got to make that choice. and for even these republicans, that's not a difficult decision to make. >> yeah, that happened in georgia as well. governor brian kemp, as you mentioned, he is a guy who has been on president trump's side through and through, and now because he won't do what the president says in terms of investigating an election that has already been certified, he is being attacked by president trump and others. secretary of state brad raffensperger confirmed the

second recount, will be done in georgia by wednesday at midnight, and he praised the paper ballot system for being accountable. that didn't stop the president from calling governor kemp, quote, hapless for not using emergency powers to overrule his secretary of state. >> what does that even mean? >> it means nothing. >> what does that even mean? emergency powers to throw out the votes. throw out millions of votes. this is again, this is tyrannical. this is -- look up the definition of a coup. it's an illegal, unconstitutional attempt at seizing power, and that's what donald trump is doing here, willie. it's time that people start calling it what it is. it's a failed coup attempt. i know something about that from being in the house of representatives. we had about one or two failed

coup attempts every week or two. but this is a failed coup attempt by donald trump. he is president of the united states, and he is trying to get these republicans to overturn the popular will of the voters in their states. >> let's remember, in georgia this is a vote that has been counted, then hand recounted, which confirmed the original vote, and now they are in the process of a third recount in that state. so governor kemp's spokesman said yesterday in response to the attacks from president trump, quote, georgia law prohibits the governor from interfering in elections. the secretary of state who is an elected constitutional officer has oversight over elections that cannot be overridden by executive order. so, again, that's from the governor. the continued conflict has the republican party concerned about the impact on voter turnout for the january 5th runoff that will determine coal of the united states senate. two races in that runoff. raffensperger, the secretary of

state, speaking yesterday. >> there are those who exploit the emotions of many trump supporters with fantastic claims, half-truths, misinformation, and, frankly, they are misleading the president as well apparently. upholding the law matters. truth matters. and your vote matters. anyone telling you to boycott an election is not on your side. >> so, again, that's the secretary of state raffensperger. again, it's not a long list. we ought to call them out, people who stood their ground. he is a republican who said i voted for trump, who was endorsed by donald trump, and again and again and again he walks out in front of cameras in the face of death trehreats to m and his family and says i did my job, donald trump les here. i don lost here. >> why this is so confusing for rank and file republicans, listen to what he said there.

he said the law matters and the truth matters. and that is the anthesis of what donald trump has said over the past four years. donald trump has said, i am the law. article 2 gives me the power to do whatever i want to do. the justice department and the fbi is mine. i can prosecute anybody i want to prosecute. i can call for the prosecution of my political opponent two weeks before the presidential campaign. and so he is saying that and, mika, it's confusing a lot of republicans right now in the state of georgia because you have got donald trump attacking the secretary of state, donald trump attacking the governor. you have sidney powell, if she is not disbarred, or at least sanctioned for what she is filing in federal court, then it seems to me no judge can -- no federal judge can ever sanction

anybody else for bad-faith claims brought before a federal judge. but she is now telling the people of georgia and the people of america that brian kemp conspired with kelly loeffler to keep doug collins off the ballot. so now trump's own circle, and they can say what they want, sidney powell's been at all of those press conferences with rudy up until a week or so ago, they are saying that there is a conspiracy out there, and that kelly loeffler, who is in the runoff, got there illegally through a conspiracy with the governor of the state of georgia. so there is all this in fighting. we talked about this several weeks ago, as to what mitch mcconnell was thinking. still not sure what he is thinking because here we are. he won't step in and show any leadership. he won't talk about the truth. he won't talk about the law. you know, he said let the votes

be counted and let the legal challenges move forward. maybe, mitch, you need to read the national review, you need to review "the wall street journal" editorial pages. you need to see what everybody already knows, that at this point the votes have been counted. the legal challenges have been had. the votes have been certified in every swing state. you would hope that there would be some leadership coming from the majority leader's office. there is just not. >> still ahead, what are the national security risks involved in the transition of power? we will talk to the vice-chair of the senate intel committee, mark warner. plus, the great julia louis-dreyfus joins us with her latest work on and off the set of "veep." that conversation is straight ahead on "morning joe." rning jo.

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♪ president-elect joe biden's pick to lead the white house budget office neera tanden could face a difficult confirmation process if republicans keep control of the senate. tanden has regularly clashed with republican lawmakers on twitter, which provoked backlash from some gop senators yesterday. senator susan collins of maine told reporters, quote, i did not know her or much about her, but i heard she is a very prolific user of twitter. so i am wondering, is that a problem now? >> it can't be, can it, because, i mean, we've had these republicans say for years, well, i haven't seen what -- president trump has a twitter account?

i haven't seen what he is tweeting. >> it's as if they are ignoring the past four years. >> is this -- this is irony, right? >> they are going to use her twitter account against her. >> would alanis morissette call this irony? >> yeah, our down right hip copsey. here are senators john cornyn and lindsey graham. >> it's crazy to me to think that she go back and, you know, eliminate all the tweets that she's sent out over the last, whatever, months, years. i don't know whether they just didn't think about it, they just assume that she'd get confirmed without any question, but i just think she's -- she's gonna be radioactive. >> omb director has to come before the budget committee. i would ask different questions and bernie sanders could be the budget chairman if democrats weren't in georgia. if you want to stop this

nonsense, make sure this nut job tapped tappeden doesn't become the director in charge of the office of management and budget, make sure we win in georgia. >> willie, back in the 1930s, stirring -- andrew sullivan, who was then at the new republic had a cover story called the death of shame talking about that administration. my god. they were straight shooters compared to these guys. it's really -- it's breathtaking that anybody would -- would talk about tweets coming from a democratic nominee. after these people have forgiven or dismissed the president of the united states tweeting the most horrific attacks, the most horrific insults imaginable.

>> this is the trap they set for themselves for five years. ignoring the tweets, pretending that that kind of stuff doesn't matter. now every time -- this is the first of what will be many. anytime something like this comes up, they are surrendered the right to be offended by what people say. you just can't do it. coming up -- >> that doesn't make any sense. nevada is my state. i am going be president. i am going to be the first elected lady president. i am going to have a lovely inauguration. billy joel is going to sing. you have to stop the recount. >> ma'am, we can't. >> i don't care. >> the train is publicly leaving the station and derailed at high speed. >> stop the count. >> 14 flip flod -- >> i don't give a [ bleep ]. >> life imitates art when it comes comes to "veep" and president trump's efforts to derail the vote. we will talk to julia luis-dreyfus just ahead on "morning joe." it's footlong season™ at subway

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why we should not deliver another major pandemic relief

package to help the american people through what seems poised to be the last chapters of this battle. >> we need a true bipartisan bill, not this is our bill take it or leave it, that can bring us together and solve the desperate needs of the american people, which we all very much want to solve. >> the leaders of the senate seeming to agree that another coronavirus relief bill is needed, but as we have seen, it's always easier said than done. that's why a group of bipartisan senators spent the holiday trying to work on the bill, on a bill together. >> yeah, willie, i know we're always asked whenever we are talking to people, is there any chance that mitch mcconnell and joe biden can work together and get things done? i remain optimistic. i know that will certainly cause people on the far right and the

far left to mock me for being pollyannish, but you look at the people in the middle right now who are trying to work together on this coronavirus bill, and then you look at others that have been elected. mark kelly probably going to be sworn in today. mark kelly and kristen sim, they are from a republican state of arizona. so they are going to be moderate. you look at governor hickenlooper, when he is sworn in, will certainly be in the middle of the political spectrum. he is not an ideologue. he is an entrepreneur, of course. you have joe manchin, the bane of a lot of progressive democrats' existence but he is in middle and talking about opportunities that we are going to have. on the republican side, mitt romney has expressed willingness to work with joe biden and the democrats. you can also, of course, look at susan collins, lisa murkowski, who said the same thing.

and right now, of course, we have senator warner, who we are going to be talking to soon about this, but also out of pennsylvania pat toomey now once again showing up into these bipartisan groups like he did with joe manchin after newtown. so there you have a bipartisan group of eight senators, which certainly could swing the senate one way or the other on a lot of bipartisan legislation. >> yeah, i guess we will have to wait and see. obviously, joe biden has a relationship with a lot of these people. he has worked with them most of his life, some of them. less of, you know, when he was vice president he worked with some of the more recent senators as well. we will see if personal relationships are enough to overcome the partisanship of this time. we certainly hope so. it would be nice to have a government where you could get things done. as you mentioned, there is that bipartisan group. one of the members is with us now, democratic senator mark warner of virginia.

senator, good to have you with us. so talk us through this bipartisan group of you who are trying to get something done on covid relief before the end of the year. we know by now the story that there has been a bill sitting on the desk, majority leader mitch mcconnell, for many months now. republicans believe it's too big, too bloated, contains a bunch of stuff that doesn't have anything to do with relieving people from coronavirus. what do you see as realistic getting done before the end of the year because, as you know, unemployment benefits run out, evictions are going to start to roll out the first of the year. the stakes are very high for tens of millions of americans right now. how optimistic are you really that something can get pushed through that hasn't for six months now? >> first of all, we should ac fourth of july it would be i am calling it stupidity on steroids if congress broke for the christmas holidays leaving unemployed folks out in the

lurch. not doing more for small business, not trying to make sure people are not put out of their homes, no rental assistance, making sure we address some of the food loss going on, food insecurity that's happening right now. there are a group of us trying to work in goodwill, eight of us that got together a couple of weeks ago and have been literally daily at it all through the thanksgiving holiday. i am not going to front run it or announce it at 10:00 this morning. suffice to say we are not going to make either party happy. the democrats who wanted a full 2 trillion are not going to be happy. the folks who thought mitch mcconnell's $500 billion plan that when we actually take back some of the additional recision dollars would have no new money are not going to be happy. but i think the vast majority of americans who desperately want us to do something, to create a short-term bridge between now and, say, the end of the first quarter, a bridge to the biden

administration, we're putting forward our best effort. i hope a whole lot of other folks may respond to the call. >> well, that's the part right there where you hope other folks will push an effort through. claire mccaskill, what's the mountain that democrats have to climb to reach an agreement to get relief it the people? >> well, this is always about trying to split the difference without losing a critical mass of senators, and mark and i have been in many, many rooms together over the years crying to hammer out compromises. mark is with a group of people who, by and large, have usually been in those rooms. the question is really whether or not mitch mcconnell will accept any deals that have been made and whether or not nancy pelosi will accept any deals that are made. so, mark, if you had to, like, say what you think is the

biggest challenges, is it the size? is it state aid, or is it this broad, sweeping, unprecedented immunity that mitch mcconnell seems so focused on? he seems more interested in making sure that no one can sue anybody for a decade than he is in those folks that are out of work. i mean, what do you see as kind of the biggest impediments right now to getting a deal? >> claire, we have been in a lot of these rooms together. on this one i don't think, again, we've put a middle number in on the size, i think we have taken a lot of the component parts that have bipartisan support, and again we want to try to give states some ability, if they want to change, their liability rules for covid-19, give them that chance. let's see how this plays out. i think the time we've spent the most on is trying to get the component parts recognizing that

those component parts will basically be building upon packages that steve mnuchin, mitch mcconnell, and we unanimously all agreed on that were at least in the first c.a.r.e.s. bill. >> senator mark warner, thank you very much for being on this morning. wish you the best of luck through this. up next, we continue our look at what joe biden can take from past presidents and in this case historical eras. authors evan thomas and walter isaacson join us with a look at the six wise men who helped shape u.s. foreign policy in the dangerous years following world war ii through vietnam. keep it right here on "morning joe." find your rhythm.

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class to get to or something? [ muffled scream ] stop living with at&t. xfinity can deliver gig to the most homes. it is clear that the north atlantic pact is not an improvisation. it is a statement of the facts and lessons of history. we have learned our history lesson from two world wars in

less than half a century. that experience has taught us that the control of europe by a single aggressive, unfriendly power would constitute an intolerable threat to the national security of the united states. we participated in those two great wars to preserve the integrity and independence of the european half of the atlantic community. in order to preserve the integrity and independence of the american half. it is a simple fact, proved by experience, that an outside attack upon one member of this community is an attack on all members. >> secretary of state dean acheson speaking about nato less than one month before its foundation with 50 days to go until inauguration day, it is a fitting time to focus on

presidential leadership and historical precedents that could be very helpful for joe biden's second -- first term. joining us now historian, writer and journalist evan thomas and professor of history at tulane university walter isaacson. they are co-authors of the seminal book "the wise men, six friends and the world they made" one of whom is dean acheson. by the way, this is what walter and evan looked like when they first published the book. they haven't changed a bit! my god! it's benjamin button! >> look at them. >> you know, joe, the secret is -- >> we haven't changed a bit. >> that portrait of myself in the attic, it's aging rapidly. >> you guys just -- you are -- >> adorable. >> you are out of a fitzgerald schwartz story. you keep getting younger every day. we are talking about presidents,

obviously. we did with evan yesterday and we talked about truman. we've talked with tom ricks about the founders and what joe biden can learn from all of these presidents. but i wanted to expand it a little bit. we are going to talk some about nixon with evan, but first let's talk about the wise men. i think that the timing is perfect. this is an extraordinary book talking about both fdr and harry truman using the best and brightest where you have the lord chancellor of britain saying i don't think we, leading up to brexit, i don't think we trust experts anymore. we don't need the advice of experts anymore. of course, donald trump selecting a radiologist to lead a global fight against a pandemic. talk about these wise men and why harry truman and fdr were wise enough to use them.

>> because they were, for one thing, the people who really did know the world. america was isolationists in the 1930s. we didn't know the world. we got into world war ii and learned in a hurry, but there was a small group of men in those days, it was men, located on wall street in washington who knew the world, who had done business all over the world, who had been dip lats. so fdr and then truman turned to them because they knew the world, and they had this sense, this key sense that america could not just go home again after world war ii. one of them said america just wanted to go home and go to the movies and drink coke. and these men acheson and lovette and kennon and mccoy and harimann, we couldn't do that because there was a communist threat. it was real. we high pressuryped it, but the real communist threat and europe was in chaos and decay and the united states had to step up to it. and rescue europe and secure the

world against communism. >> and, walter, as evan said, this was an america who had been, had looked inward and had been isolationists and followed george washington's warnings in his farewell address for 150 years to avoid foreigentangleme. as harry truman said when he was turbing the truman document, i have the biggest selling job that a president's ever had, but it was these wise men that were surrounding truman that helped make the sell. >> yes, and in your book sa"savg freedom" you talk about the burst in the 1947 period where they create the alliances ragek from the nato agreements, the international monetary fund, world bank, radio free europe,

that helped us preserve freedom around the world and we get engaged. one problem is we are continuing to use those institutions such as nato and, you know, the national monetary fund, that in some ways or not is geared for the 21st century. so we have to have that burst of creativity that the wise men had 60, 70 years ago so we can have a new birth of creativity and figuring out how we are going to face 21st century challenges. don't forget that when you use phases like the wise men or the best and bright he est, there i slight ironic twinge to it because these people were very much part of an american establishment and sometimes they got too stuck into establishment thinking. but it took the wise men to come back into power after the best and the brightest had helped get us into vietnam to say, well, that was a mistake, let's get out of vietnam. so we have to guard against too much establishment thinking.

>> evan thomas, you have also wrote a great biography on richard nixon. while, of course, you say the word nixon and immediately your mind is fixed on watergate, what are some of the things that joe biden can learn from richard nixon? >> well, nixon understood the world, too. the greater world, that america had this role in the world that they couldn't give up. we had to work with other countries, work with allies, work with our enemies. nixon was an arch colnist, arch anti-communists who was able to deal with communists. nixon personally negotiated the first ever arms control agreement in moscow with the soviet union. he went there. he used his brilliant advisor henry kissinger. they were on the same page, and

they created this system of alliances and they were willing to talk to our enemies. they were always in the world. they were always -- he never wanted to retreat, even though nixon came from a tradition, a republican tradition of isolationism, he was an internationalist and understood america had a huge role to play. walter is right that these old institutions need to be freshened up a little bit, if not changed. it's not like we can just go back to that world that no longest exists. but the idea that america has a central role in the world, that's still true. >> i am interested in that idea you put out a second ago, which is garden against too much establishment thinking as you look at the best and the brightest going into vietnam from the people you write about in the book. how do you view that right now for joe biden as he is putting his foreign policy team together? there has to be a place, gis, between old establishment thinking and whatever the team that donald trump has had in place for four years is, which

is disruptive and inexperienced and in some ways unqualified. so what do you make of joe biden's team right now? >> i think you need competence and you need some wisdom, and that's what something like antony blinken brings into the party. he would be in the category of the wise men of previous generations, he is today. and you see younger thinkers like jake sullivan or even a brian dees coming in. i think the important thing is you don't want to have it be so insular and do remember that it was the best and the brightest who came in and kind of stumbled us into vietnam. the wise men, even though they were establishment, in 1967 and '68 they tell lyndon johnson, you know, we have to rethink. we have to think anew. we have to look outside of the box. this vietnam program is misguided and is not going to work. so there is a difference between being the best and the brightest and being wise, and i do think

that joe biden, in his, you know, has the wisdom. and so do all of the people i have seen so far around him. i love we have one of our louisiana people who just came into the administration, linda thompson green field, who is u.n. ambassador. she has been career foreign service but brings a new voice and fresh perspective. i think it's a nice mix. >> hey, evan, walter was talking about thinking anew. you brought up nixon going to china. only nixon could go to china, of course, was sort of the catchphrase around that for historians because he was such a fierce anti-communist. domestically, nixon, of course, gave us the epa and moved in a direction that few people would have expected the congressmen elect inside '46, i think it was, moving in a direction that was nixon moved. what are some of the areas where

joe biden could move to surprise those that might be expecting more of the same old line thinking? >> well, right away he has to find things, whether there is common interests. he needs to establish trust, because right now there is no trust. he has to find a which to get to mitch mcconnell, if that's possible. he has to -- there are a couple of moderate senators there. he has to build some bridges right away with common ground. infrastructure, the obvious stuff, before you can try the new stuff, the chancy stuff. he has to find a way to signal to the moderates and to the right that he's not in bed with the progressives, that he is not going to be a creature of the democratic left. that's a tricky exercise because he needs the democratic left, too. he needs everybody. he needs a big tent. so he is going to have to have

great diplomatic skill to do this. the ones who were successful were gauged. as you mentioned, nixon went to china. barack obama would have been a better president if he spent more time playing golf with boehner and with republicans. biden understands that. biden got in big trouble for being friends with segregationists back when he was a senator, you know snorks east land. he needs to do that kind of thing. i mean, he may -- he doesn't have to concert with the devil, but he needs to reach across and talk to people who are his natural enemies. >> well, and it's something that lbj understood, walter. it's something that ronald reagan understood early on when reagan was pitching republicans and democrats, so in selling the a wax, there is a famous story of one of the congressmen being clumsy and swatting the jelly

beans on to the floor and it was reagan, the president of the united states, getting on hands and knees picking up the jelly beans and putting them paback i. he was just dumbfounded. but reagan understood twha evan was talking about. you have got to deal with the other side and remember what bismarck said that politics is the art of the possible. and isn't that what joe biden understands as well as anybody in washington? >> i think not since lyndon johnson have we had a person of the senate who knew how to work across the aisle and pull things together. it's tougher than in lbj's days because the parties are polarized ideologically more than when they were liberal republicans and conservative democrats. but biden has it in his dna, in his bones, and in his heritage and breeding that he is a person who knows how to work within the senate and we are going to give one more shot to that former thinking in our democracy, joe. the ones you just talked about.

>> evan thomas and walter isaacson, thank you both very, very much. >> i mean, they never age. >> they don't. they are timeless rchls they are timeless. >> speaking of past discussions on his new book "saving freedom: truman, the cold war and the fight for western civilization." with the commonwealth club at 3:00 eastern time. you can find more information if you'd like to join at our website, joe.msnbc.com. up next, the star of "veep." actress julia louis-dreyfus is standing by. she joins us next on "morning joe." serena: it's my 9:12, no-days-off migraine medicine. it's ubrelvy. for anytime, anywhere migraine strikes without worrying if it's too late, or where i am.

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ah, look. the white house is all ready for the holidays. >> they love christmas there from what i hear. >> they're so into it. they're into the santa superspreader event and they have little elves and little bags and they put out confetti that is sort of like symbolic of coronavirus flying around the room. >> no, i think actually, willie, melania loves christmas and she's stated several times, especially inside the white house is what she looks forward to more than anything else all year. >> it's documented her love of christmas is on tape. yeah, they've decorated up again. we've got julia louis-dreyfus coming up in a minute. you heard the "veep" music. so much to consider when you think of this current effort to overturn the election as an episode of "veep." your four seasons landscaping press conference between the crematorium and the porn shop, your hair dye running down the

cheeks of rudy giuliani, president trump sitting in a tiny desk railing against the media and then you've got yesterday which we talked about at the top of the show in arizona, the governor of arizona, as he's certifying the election results for joe biden, sending the voice mail a call from president trump with "hail to the chief" as the ring tone. it's almost too much. >> the star of "veep" actress julia louis-dreyfus. we last had her on the show after the veep fundraising event to support the democratic party before the election. also executive producer and show runner of "veep," david mandel. this sunday they're hosting another fundraising event with the cast of veep" ahead of the senate runoff elections in georgia. so you guys just keep on going, julia. >> we do. we can't quit this business it seems. if there are elections, we show up, i suppose. but we had success during the

presidential election and raising funds. david and i worked together multiple teams working on "veep" stuff on "seinfeld" stuff to do whatever we can from our homes. and we thought this was a perfect opportunity because what's been happening across the country very similar to a particular episode of our show. it was called "mother." it was in the fifth season of the show when selena meyer is -- the vote is too close to count in nevada and so there's this whole effort to count every ballot and then all of a srngs when all these military ballots come in, and they're not for selena, she tries to stop the count. it wreaks of this time unfortunately. we thought it would be great fun to read it. gather everybody together and

read it with some special guests, too, which we also would love to announce. right, dave? >> yep. we're very excited about -- sorry. the timing. we're very excited about runoffs in general. we hope this election season never ends and we can just keep going, just election after election after election. >> yeah. >> so dave, we actually played that clip, julia, a few minutes ago where selena is screaming, stop the recount, stop the recount. i guess the difference in that case is their advisers screamed back at her, no, you can't do that. we're not hearing much of that around president trump right now. as you watch these incidents play out, you've been asked these questions a thousand times because it's too close to "veep," you can almost hear the music sneaking in. the four seasons landscaping, the hair dye, all of it. what do you think as you watch all of this? >> i am glad it's going to be over soon. i am so exhausted by it. you know, it's one thing when it's a comedy on hbo and we can

laugh, but when lives are at stake, as they are today, and when democracy is on the line, which is something i feel is very much the case in this last election, i want to right this ship and, as an american concerned citizen, i am eager to end this madness. and then making shows like veep which seem ridiculous all of a sudden might seem funny again. >> you know, it would be so great if we could go back to a time where we could watch a show like veep and laugh uproaruously at just how completely out there it is. the parallels, claire mccaskill, have been a little too painfully close. wouldn't you say, i mean, especially with some of your republican counterparts. >> yeah, it has been -- there's so many moments where i can just tell you, jewelia, people in the

capital say it's veep, it's veep. it's like a shorthand for how ridiculous this administration has been in terms of busting norms. is comic. if if wasn't such a tragedy. first of all, thank you so much for all you've done for so many of us throughout many years of advocacy for the policies that we hold dear. i want to ask you a question about you. i know that you inked a deal with apple tv and i think too often we fly over really talented actresses and don't realize the work they're doing behind the camera, the producing. tell me what you're working on now as an executive producer because i think women out there need to realize, you know, you're not just a pretty face in front of the camera that makes us all laugh. you're also very accomplished, professional in the area of entertainment. >> well, thank you so much, claire, for that question.

andld say that i'm working on a bunch of different things, not the least of which is this table read that we're putting together next week, but at apple i've got a number of different projects that i'm either going to be in or i'm just producing. i'm interested in telling stories that maybe haven't been told before and stories of some -- that have -- particularly nowadays i'm interested in finding material that's fresh and has some real meaning to it, whether it's comedic or dramatic, either way. but it's something that i'm in search of and a couple of things that i've got in the works as we speak today. but stories that are about women and social change and even stories about environment and climate, stuff like that. i'm investigating all of those subject matters. >> i love it. julia louis-dreyfus and david

mandel, thank you both for everything you have done and are doing. and that does it for us this morning. yasmin vossoughian picks up the coverage right now. >> good morning, everyone. it's december 1st, on a tuesday morning. we're asking the big question. how do we survive the coronavirus? how do we get through this pandemic and save as many lives as we can with a vaccine just around the corner? 96,000 americans waking up this morning in a hospital bed. across this country, hospitals are overrun from the east coast all the way to the west coast. and then there's the conversation of the light at the end of the tunnel. those vaccines. the cdc meeting today to decide when and how they'll distribute these vaccines. i spoke to the head of "operation warp speed" yesterday. the person heading up the distribution of these vaccines who said to me by the end of june, if you want a vaccine, every american will be able to get access to that vaccine. that's just seven or eht