velshi why he does not support that legislation. >> at the very least what we should be doing is continuing that $1,200 payment to every working-class adult in this country, plus $500 for their children. in addition to that, i worry very much that in this bill being put together right now, there is legal immunity for corporations who have been irresponsible in protecting their workers. so the fact that we are not addressing the economic crisis of tens of millions of people in this bill and then giving large corporations card lablank tellse this bill should not be passed. >> and silent on the pandemic, the president, heading to georgia to rally voters ahead of the senate runoffs there. only one month away now. this will be trump's first

campaign event since losing his election. it comes as his white house is creating new road blocks tore the incoming biden administration. new reporting says pennell chief of staff and trump loyalist kash patel is controlling the biden transition team's access to pentagon agencies, even blocking some officials from providing the transition team with key information they need. to dig deeper into the day's developments we have our nbc correspondents and a terrific group of panelists and we begin with josh letterman in washington, d.c. for us. good saturday, my friend. what's going on at the pentagon and how is this affecting transition of power? how worrying is this? >> reporter: since the sense services administration went ahead and ascertained president-elect joe biden's victory in the 2020 election it's been mostly positive news from across the federal agencies. with signs there have been a lot of cooperation as agencies have started to cooperate and provide information that the incoming

administration, alex, will need to hit the ground running, but our colleagues courtney and kara report that that's not necessarily the case when it comes to the pentagon, and the defense department. and that a trump loyalist named kash patel has established himself as essentially a go between and effectively a bottleneck for information that needs to go to the biden transition about national security and defense matters. patel is a longtime trump loyalist, used to work for congressman devin nunes when he chaired the house intelligence committee and was sent over to the position atop the defense department chief of staff role after the election, and, according to the reporting from our colleagues from two current and two former officials, he has been taking the requests for information from the biden transition and instead of allowing for career officials moo have the best and most up-to-date information about

what's really happening on the ground with a lot of these defense matters and allowing them to speak directly to the biden transition, he's been directing those requests to political appointees instead. often taking some of the paper documentation the biden administration would want access to and either withholding those documents or putting more political spin on them according to the sources that we've been speaking with. obviously creating a lot of concern about whether the biden transition will have access to everything they need to know to be able to proceed quickly on national security matters, and this is not the only example of this, alex. the "washington post" a also reporting that the defense department has been prohibiting access for the biden team to the u.s. intelligence agencies that are under the defense department. such as the national security agency, and the defense intelligence agency, alex. >> okay. lots to get through on that. thank you so much for the setup, josh letterman on that. the latest from the joe

biden team. the president-elect, former vice president, no the just in transition mode but campaign mode. keeping an eye on the georgia runoff. and covering the president in waiting for us, welcome. no public events scheduled today, but quite a jumping act, i'd say, behind the scenes? >> reporter: yeah. a juggling act indeed, alex. especially when you error josh talking abo -- hear josh talking about the barriers at the biden team tries to enter the white house. biden painted a bleak picture the other day of the economy. we know the economic recession is so inextricably tied with the ongoing pandemic. biden made that point repeatedly. you cannot begin to get the economy on track without first dealing with the coronavirus. biden dealing in short and longer-term steps here. short-term saying the first 100

days of his presidency he wants to see americans wearing masks to try to stop spread of the virus, we know has only gotten worse and we expect to continue to worsen unfortunately as we see the cases potentially climb after people traveled more for the holidays. then the longer term. 3w50 3w50 3w50 biden's team trying to figure out how to roll out a plan, fiscally and localities, needed the resources to officially put the vaccine out there. all amid biden putting out new staffing choices and looking ahead to a lot of nominees facing uphit battles waiting to be confirmed by the senate. key to the process, those two georgia senate races and a lot of democrats turning eyes to the peach state now trying to make sure all georgians get out to vote. in this case, if you're barack obama, urging democrats to get out to vote. listen to what he said the other

day. >> the senate is a place where even with a big majority, it's tough to get legislation through. the promise of the pibiden presidency and the harris vice presidency rests in part on their ability to have a cooperative posture with congress, and to do that we have to have the two gentlemen who are running for senate in georgia, raphael warnock and jon ossoff are to help move that agenda forward. >> reporter: certainly picking up one, even both of these seats would be beneficial for them moving into a cooperative term they hope of working with congress and have to work with them previously and immediately on stimulus spending on the coronavirus. we know biden back add deal upwards of $900 billion being

goerted on capitol hill right now and k5u8 calls that a down payment. biden hopes to get more stimulus payments after getting into office january 20th. >> thank you for that. sure he does. joining me director of programming at sirius xm and host of the show "zerlina" on peacock and former aid to. >> george: w. bush and former spokesman for the house oversight committee and senior adviser to the lincoln project. welcome, all's two ladies, start with you. can't decide which one. right? let's get to the white house, which removed nine members of the pentagon's defense business yesterday installing people loyal to president trump in their place and that includes cory loon douse with, david bossy among others. what do you think of this move and what do you think the president is doing? his angle? >> a concerted effort by donald

trump and his cronies to do everything they can to make the transition to president-elect joe biden as difficult as possible. you're seeing them play politics with national security, with homeland security, and they know that republicans in congress aren't going to do anything, say anything to try to stop this from happening. so they have free reign now between now and january 20th to politicize everything, try to retail the biden presidency before it has a chance to begin. it's a huge miscalculation that they keep playing games like this at a time when we're dealing with a pandemic, where the priorities of the american people or something very serious, hitting very close to home, that's having a massive loss of life, and you have people like bossy and loon douse wit lewandowski to have a role in this. the next time you hear a republican talk about national security, intelligence, keeping our country safe, all of the

axioms we've seen over the years since 9/11, next time they say that, remind them of this moment and how republicans are being silent as donald trump is playing politics with our national security. >> to pick up on that with you, elise. you heard josh letterman talk about the new nbc news reporting that a trump loyalist recently appointed pentagon chief of staff is the now controlling the biden transition's team access to pentagon officials, even blocking some career officials, some experts, from giving information about key defensive us to this biden transition team. so you have experiences as a white house aide. what do you make of this? >> well, president bush took the transition very seriously, and within the nsc, only very high-level nsc aides were a part of dealing with the obama transition officials. it was a process that was really held, you know, as one of the top priorities at the end of the

administration, just so there would be a smooth and seamless transition and no harm to our national security. now, are we surprised at all donald trump is being completely uncooperative given he hasn't even conceded the election yet and his cronies and agencies aren't doing what they can do for america's national interests but instead focusing on their own petty, political interests? this is par for the course, and unfortunately it's what is going on at so many agencies across the u.s. government. and it is essentially baked into this transition at this point. hopefully it's not going to cause too much harm to america's interests, but did is completely unsurprising and par for the course wit trump administration. >> yeah. and it all comes as the "washington post" dana milbank call as spree of sash tbotage ae white house and supreme court and capitol hill. mnuchin shutting down emergency

federal reserve lending programs the fed says serve an important role as a backstop for our still strained and vulnerable economy. the absence of covid relief could in turn lead to a government shutdown in december. potential shock to the economy. and trump just moved to strip job protections from hundreds of white house budget analysts, and other experts, part of an effort to make it easier to fire tens of thousands of civil servants. so it would seem kurt read that andy greed wi agreed. is donald trump purposely trying to sabotage joe biden's administration? >> yes i think that's what the president is doing and also i think he stopped doing any of the day-to-day that are involved in the job. i find it interesting he has time to sabotage the incoming administration and joe biden and kamala harris who beat him in the election but has no time to put pressure or try to negotiate with members of congress to get something done in terms of

stimulus and get money in the hands of the american people who need it in the middle of the worst surge in the pandemic. so it goes to show what donald trump's priorities are, and i find it very small of him to be so petty with so many important things in the late stages. it's like burning down rome on your way out and it's only going to hurt the american people and our national security. frankly, i think covid is a national security issue, alex. when you have a 9/11 event every single day. how many americans we're losing every single day now, that is national security issue. so donald trump i think historians won't be too kind to these decisions and in this late phase in his administration, but i think we can't expect anything different from him based and what we've seen in the last four years. >> again, sentiments of elise on that, too. touch's efforts to overturn

election results major blow yesterday. lost arizona, michigan, nevada, wisconsin and georgia as well. there are now more than 30 cases from the trump campaign that have been withdrawn, denied or dismissed. when do they stop? >> well, i think they've made it very clear they are going to continue down this line until the electoral college meets and officially ratifies the biden victory and acknowledges and codifies it. interesting you watch this mass cade masquerade go on. a "washington post" story came out today showing 90% of the republican members of congress refuse to acknowledge on the record that joe biden won this election. the reason why this is happening, why this is going so long is because leaders of the republican party, mitch mcconnell, kevin mccarthy, refuse to acknowledge what we all know is true, the courts

have shown over and over again is true, that the will of the american people is expressed. more than 81 million votes. same number of electoral votes trump called a landslide in 2016 are refusing to ak mocknowledge biden won the election. if all of these leaders had spoken up by now acknowledged our democratic process trump wouldn't be able to keep doing this, i think. because they're silent, keep hedging, hemming, delaying, anighing, trump is able to continue with this farce. >> can i ask our republican, elise what is the goal? what are they doing? why don't they just get onboard and accept reality? >> elise, to you, if you didn't hear me. sorry. >> first of all, i do want to say i am an independent now. i've shed the republican label, alex. >> that is very true. or former republican. then again -- >> so many former ex republicans, but i will say that for now they see it in their

electorate at political benefit. see it as trump's base, something necessary for their political expediency, for their political success and they don't want to anger the beast. we see a bunch of grown men who cower in fear over dictator who has, emperor with no clothes on and just granting in the final stages of a tale of nothing, because he has nothing to cling to in terms of this electoral victory, because he just did not win. so that's where we are. just a sad state of affairs no one is willing to step up and say, this is absolutely crazy and nonsense. >> take time quickly for an alternate reality moment listening to this claim from trump campaign senior adviser and president's daughter-in-law lara trump. >> look, fighting to the end. i want to make it clear to the

american people, this is not over. don't for a second think that joe biden is going to be sworn in on january 20th. >> i mean zerlina what kind of affect does a declaration, a ridiculous and unfounded one, like we have right there, how does that affect people who are inclined to believe it? why say something so patently false? >> i don't know why she is lying on national television but i'll say this can be potentially dangerous. this week you had someone following a truck and live streaming it and claiming that it was somebody delivering some sort of machines when it was really just telephones. it's very, very important that we take these lies seriously, but if you only exist in the right-wing media bubble, this is all you're hearing. you're not hearing the truth, and you are not hearing the facts. i do find it odd that donald trump called a 306 victory a landslide which that's what joe

biden has now. i can't understand why so many of the republicans who still support trump believe this. but they also believe in herd immunity. so i think that they have to do maybe some self-reflection and i hope -- hope that with new leadership the rest of america, the 80 million of us not really into herd immunity with that vaccine can move on to a safer and more secure world, and the people who believe the lies, i think ultimately it will come around back around for them, and karma is a you know what. >> yeah. leave it there. not finish that. we all know that what it. thank you all for joining me. thank you so much, guys. so you may wonder why the british are getting the pfizer coronavirus vaccine before the u.s. one doctor from johns hopkins has a scathing assessment of fda and the slow process. you're going to want to hear his opinion, next. ext.but not for . that's why we're a fiduciary,

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now get to the latest facts on the coronavirus pbd pandemic. more than 14.4 million cases in the u.s. and more than 280,000 death as record 2,800 added one day kniss this week. according to the university of washington, reported more than 11,000 coronavirus deaths this week alone. reporting about dangers of holiday travel and how much the virus could spread this winter. >> so we're in that range potentially now starting to see 1,500 to 2,000 to 2,500 deaths a day. from this virus. i do think unfortunately before we see february we could be close to 450,000 americans that died from this virus. december and january and february are going to be rough times. i actually believe they're going to be the most difficult time in the public health history of

this nation. largely because of the stress that's going to put on our health care system. >> wow. december through february. the worst time in the history of this nation. that's -- that's extraordinary there. go to the people in six san francisco bay area counties getting ready for a month-long stay-home order that starts tomorrow. officials are not waiting for icu beds to reach the 85% capacity threshold set by governor newsom. get a closer look now at some of the nation's emerging hot spots. my colleagues nbc's lindsey reiser in newark, new jersey, valerie castro in cranston, rhode island. welcome, ladies. cove eddiess in newark on the rise at an alarming rate? >> reporter: that's right, alex. we heard governor phil murphy say that mom and pop farm sis like this will be crucial to the vaccine rollout, but here in new jersey, they were hit hard in the first wave and hit hard again in a second wave.

let me break down numbers for you. positivery rate exceeding 10%. the governor announces 5, 600 new cases. 48 new deaths. cases exceeding what we saw in the spring. silver lining and any death is too many. silver lining appears outcomes are getting better. in the spring hundreds of deaths a day. now 4,800 in the previous 24-hour period but hope is on the horizon. hope in the vaccine. for mom and pop farm sis liphap still working out logistics, can't afford a big freeze for the pfizer vaccine. let's listen how they're figuring out this dance of the logistics. >> moderna and pfizer have a vaccine coming out of you osoon.

pfizer's, freezers are expensive and won't be able to accommodate them as much as we want to. moderna's coming out within about a week, able to store, distribute it and set up clinics for people to get the vaccine in this neighborhood. >> reporter: alex, this pharmacist is worried about public trust in the vaccine and anecdotally people have driven by asked what we're doing here because we have a tent here and think maybe we're setting up. there appears to be interest in this vaccine rollout. >> makes a lot of sense. thank you for that. now to rhode island. a surge in cases is overwhelming hospitals there. valerie cat trstro from trancet rhode island. what being done to handle the surge of cases? >> reporter: good afternoon, alex. rhode island now is in the middle of a two-week pause meaning indoor dining reduced to 33% capacity, and any bar areas inside those restaurants are closed.

houses are worship, capacity down to 25% and gyms also closed. that all went into effect november 30th, the same day residents in this area got an emergency alert notifying them that hospitals are now at capacity, and that is the same day that field hospitals began to open up. there are two field hospitals in rhode island. one in providence at the convention sarcenter, 20 patien are there. the other the building behind he in cranston set to hold about 350 and told there are ten patients there right now. that may not sound like a lot, but spoke to a doctor earlier saying that is the tip of the iceberg and they know more patients are coming in the next days and weeks. take a listen. >> our rates in rhode island climbs since october and thanksgiving, we anticipate the next two to three week as continued rise, and our hospitals are already quite

full. so another two to three to four weeks of climbing of covoid in our state, our hospitals won't be able to handle it and why places like our field hospitals are being set up. >> reporter: again, the concern that as these numbers continue to go up the hospitalless fill up as well. a few weeks ago about 250 people hospitalized. state health department says the number is now about 400. >> okay. valerie castro, thank you from rhode island. listen, as americans wait for the fda to approve a vaccine the fipfizer vaccine willy distributed in a few days in the uk. the dean of the national school of tropical medicine at baylor college of medicine. dr. hotez, welcome back to the broadcast. good to see you. get to the professor. i know you're familiar with what this professor said. johns hopkins university medical school wrote an op-ed about this, saying, fda career staffer delaying the vaccine as

thousands of americans die calling it "operation turtle speed," he goes on to point out pfizer submitted its data november 22nd and the fda's review not scheduled until december 10th. what's your take on the difference here? almost frthree weeks. could the fda has acted faster? >> i don't know that doctor, alex but disagree with his premise. i think the fda has -- i know for a fact from talking with the fda leadership and fda career scientists that they are working all-hands on deck day and night making this the absolute number one priority. to carefully review the data. all we know from the vaccine from pfizer is company press leases and they're not meant for you or me. they're meant for shareholders. it's up to the fda to carefully

review the data making sure everything checks out in terms of efficacy of the vaccine, really protects including special populations. looking at all the populations that might benefit from the vaccine as well as the safety. because this is going to be bumpy with the fact that the vaccine does, is associated with fever and malaise and fatigue and the fda has to make nothing goes beyond that. >> yeah. >> and careful certification of the manufacturing process and all the ingredients that go into the vaccine, that they're certified. an incredibly complex undertaking and i think the fda has done this in really record time. balancing the emergency and doing this through emergency use authorization and safety. i fully am sportive of what fda is doing. >> did the uk act too quickly? >> first of all, i think the mhra, the name of the british regulatory agency is one of the top ones in the world.

if i had to pick the top ones globally, i think a big organization like swiss medic, ema, british regulatory agency, the u.s. hard to criticize. they have different practices that they use. i'm seeing reports that they tended to accept company analysis more than their own analysis. whether that's true or not, i don't know. you know, we have -- all i tell you is in the u.s. we have an extraordinary track record of safety. and extraordinary track record of ensuring that effective and safe vaccines are released to the public and the uk does, too. i think everyone is working within the con straights that they have to make certain that this is going to go well. >> this meeting on thursday. do you expect the vaccine to be approved and if it's approved, how soon until we can start being inoculated? >> well, my understanding is once it's approved that's basically a green light to go

forward within hours, i would hope. we could start seeing vaccines. so i'm hopeful that by the end of the year we'll have both the pfizer and moderna vaccines being released to selected populations and then a larger population is probably early part of next year and remember, we are going to need a fleet of different vaccines if we're really going to vaccinate the u.s. populations. we will not be able to vaccinate entire u.s. population in a timely manner with just the two mrna vaccines. we need the other add roh vaccine, novavax, our protein, we need that, because it's a pretty high bar to get the full u.s. population vaccinated quickly. >> if all of these things come together, this target, some officials suggested june 2021 as a date for the larger portion of the population to be vaccinated. do you agree with that target

date? and after that point, at what point do things become somewhat normal? when are we not going to be told we have to wearing a masks all the time? >> i think with every succeeding month starting in february-march we'll see more and more americans being vaccinated. so the hope is we'll have a significantly high percentage of the u.s. adult population vaccinated by late in the spring and i'm optimistic about that. to get to what people are calling herd immunity meaning transmission of the virus, that's a higher bar. we've done a study with a university of new york to find about 70% to 80% of the population needs to be vaccinated and we need to know the vaccines actually stop virus shedding from the nose and mouth. we don't know that yet. that triers another study. we know it will keep you out of the hospital and the intensive care unit which is important but now have to look at that next phase, but getting 70% to 80% of the population is a pretty high bar and means we're going to

have to vaccinate adolescents and children, still need to do those studies. they're under way. need and extraordinary communications plan. right now surveys show up to half of americans will refuse covid-19's vaccines even if made available and have to knock down the disinformation empire coming out of russia, coming out of home-grown groups, especially places like texas under this fake banner of health freedom and need to launch a counteroffensive of cdc vaccine groups or we won't get there as well. we have a lot of work to do. i think we'll get there and can assure you by spring in a much better place than now and why she hawe have to hang on. by summer, fall, be in a lot better place. >> keep on keeping on and keep this thing on the right path. dr. peter hotez, thank you. good to see you. come see me again soon. >> anytime, thank you, alex. and plenty of talks about

donald trump pardoning his family to leave the white house free of any bill legal worries. but is that even possible? my next guest speaks to that and spoke to a podcast last week and one important thing we learned from that, straight ahead. aigh. ♪ [ engines revving ] ♪ it's amazing to see them in the wild like th-- shhh. [ engine revs ] for those who were born to ride, there's progressive.

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two official faces joining msnbc. tiffany cross and jonathan capehart. tiffany saturday, jonathan sunday. watch both shows at 10:00 a.m. eastern here on msnbc. meantime, new today, a fresh wave of legal setbacks for the president and his allies. six of election fraud lawsuits rejected within 24 hours. keeping score, on friday judges in wisconsin, arizona, georgia, michigan, minnesota and nevada all tossed out the president's claims due to lack of evidence. joining me now, msnbc contributor former u.s. attorney and senior fbi official chuck rosenberg. welcome. get into this here. despite the losses, trump and

his campaign continue pushing forward saying they plan on taking these baseless claims now all the way up to the supreme court of the united states. think the supreme court will take this case? >> i don't see is reason why they will. you can petition for the supreme court to take a case, but it's completely up to the supreme court whether or not it takes it. frankly, because they are failing so remarkably in all of the state courts in which they're litigating, i don't yet see a constitutional issue that would interest the supreme court. so petition away, but i don't expect the supreme court to be hearing these cases at all, alex. >> what we do know from tuesday is that ivanka trump was deposeds by the d.c. attorney general for a lawsuit claiming trump's 2017 inauguration committee misused donor funds. then in a tweet posted thursday, ivanka trump called the investigation another politically motivated demonstration of vin dicttidict

and waste of taxpayer dollars. >> some of my colleagues in the democratic ag room brought a lot of lawsuits against the trumps in the last almost four years. about 130 lawsuits. guess what? we won 80% of those lawsuits. you know what that means? that means that democratic judges and republican judges, courts of appeals, final neutral arbiters agreed that the administration is a lawless administration that needed to be held to account. >> i'd like your reaction to all of this, chuck? >> well, first of all, alex, important to remember that ivanka trump was deposed, which means it was a civil case. not a criminal case. a civil case. the d.c. attorney general, you just saw mr. racine on television, is trying to recoup money for the charity. so let me explain. you have the president inauguration committee on one hand. the trump hotel on the other.

the inaugural committee is supposed toing not enriching private individuals or private corporations. on both siftds transaction, alex, you effectively have the president of the united states. so the d.c. attorney general is saying, that doesn't work. there's something wrong here, he's trying to recover money for charitable purposes. whether or not he wins, let's see. i kind of wish he wasn't talking about it publicly. i really do prefer when attorneys general or federal prosecutors do their work in court and not on television. i understand why he's upset and angry. by the way, i read his complaint. it's excellent. he may well prevail but i wish he would do his work in court. >> duly noted. about what about the sources saying the president is considering issues preemptive pardons for his family members and giuliani none of whom charged with crimes at this point. is it possible to issue a

blanket pardon protecting them from they hypothetical cases in the future? >> you can ord are a preemptive pardon. they're meant to excuse contact. it can be contact before you're charged or contact after you're charged. the contact before you're tried or after you're tried. contact before your sentenced or after your sentence. if you issue a pardon before you are charged, then it's preemptive. you, of course, cannot issue a pardon for future contact. in other words, i can't give you a get out of jail card, alex, for 2023, but you could be pardoned for anything up to this date that you did wrong. so blanket pardon, preemptive pardon, yes, permissible under article 2, section 2 of the constitution. pardon for future contact or presidential pardon for state contact, those are impermissible. so theoretically possible, the president could well issue preemptive pardons blanket

pardons if you will, before he leaves office to whomever he chooses, but, again. only for federal crimes, or bad federal contact, and not for future cases. >> agency you said, not a get out of jail card to keep? your wallet. you recently interviewed former special counsel robert mueller for your podcast. were you surprised, chuck, his childhood, vietnam, but not russia, not election interference investigation being discusses. why does he not discuss the investigation? and do you think he will ever talk about it? >> second question first, alex. no. i don't think he will talk about it. when he testified before congress he said that his report says all that he has to say about it. by the way, the interview with bob mueller is in two parts. the second part comes out in about two months from now fop me he's an american hero, a great privilege of mine to work for him at the fbi.

not at all surprised he didn't want to talk about certain things. one of the things i learned working for bob mueller is take this decent, good, honest man at his word. he tells you he's not going something, he's not going to do something, but here's the important thing, alex. many people who know him as special counsel didn't know he was director of the fbi. many people knew he was director of the fbi didn't know he was decorated marine officer in vietnam. so what we're trying to do on this podcast and it's been true with all of my guests is stay away from politics, stay away from news. stay away from current events, and introduce the public to men and women of integrity who served and served with honor. this iteration of the oath podcast is not different than my other interviews. different is that i'm talking to bob mueller. >> yeah. i think you should interview yourself then, chuck, if that's the criteria. thank you so much. love speaking with you and always learn many things. appreciate it. for all of you to learn a few things be sure to listen to chuck's interview with robert mueller on his weekly podcast

"the oath with chuck rosenberg." meantime, paramedics on the front live of covid reach a breaking point. an s.o.s. is next.

the covid pandemic is taking a different kind of toll on rural america. in a letter obtained exclusively by nbc news, the american ambulance association says the 911 system is at a breaking point and needs help. go nbc's alison barber in fargo,

north dakota for us. welcome on this saturday. paramedics face tremendous hardships. what are they telling you about that? >> reporter: saying particularly these ambulance services in small rural areas that not only are they dealing with a massive influx of calls and needing to respond to a number of different issues, primarily right now related to covid-19 but they don't have the funding to sustain things at the rate and level they are right thousand. -o now. we spent the last two days about two hours away from here. only three staffed 24/7. paramedics there say majority of calls coming in on covid-19-related and calls to transfer patients or take patients from hospitals or from homes to hospitals that are a

lot farther away. you saw that firsthand yesterday when one of the crews got a call from a smaller hospital in the area asking them to take a covid-19 patient on a ventilator to one of the bigger hospitals here in fargo. that trip round-trip, took that single true about five hours to perform and even longer. on their way back their ambulance broke down and their calls are taking longer because they have to suit up to deal with covid-19 calls. disinfecting process doing on the back end takes more time and getting a lot of wear and tear on their ambulances in addition to having paramedics taken out of service hours on end because they're making further and further trips. part is not just because the smaller hospitals don't have the level of care necessary for some of the severe covid-19 patients. sometimes they do, but at this point one of the paramedics told me those smaller hospitals simply have no more open bends

and force e beds a forced the to take them to fargo and don't have the money to do this. any federal aid was in april, nothing since then. in this state, ambulance services are not essential. that alone makes it hard to get any funding to begin with. now with a pandemic, they're in a real bind. >> stunning story you're telling you and very important we're made aware of it. appreciate that. even today more than a month after the election president trump's campaign operation keeps raising tens of millions of dollars. they say it's all for the legal changes but in fact that money can be used by the president for expenses that have nothing to do with voting sit is a rather alarming twist and it's next. w

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a new report says president trump raked in over $207 million since election day, but the funds amptsed to be used to

contest the election mostly funneled into a new political action committee. joining me now, shane goldmacher. welcome. get into this. you wrote this week detailing how this defense fund would be allocated. 75% to donald trump's new pack and 25% to the rnc. how aware are supporters aware of this? his doan jers pleas so trump could legally challenge election results? >> yeah. sent out hundreds of emails and text messages asking for money for, and still on his website, election defense fund. fine print shows the money is actually going somewhere else. for bigger donors people give more than $6,000, some share of it goes to a potential defense fund. look, his campaign had disclosures this week as well through november 23rd showed he spent about $8.9 million on recount-related costs. some costs, but $. 8.9 million

is way less than $207.5 million the total he raised. just a small share of this money is going towards paying the legal bills and a lot is setting him up for whatever his next political steps will be. >> in other words, can he legally use that money for something personal? like what? >> yes. i mean, basically these political action committees have less rules for personal use than campaign committees themselves do. really the only rule he can't use it is to see the 2024 run but can use it for things he's doing later today. going to georgia, hiring staff, recently purchasing books his son had written. use it for all manner of things but more than anything, a huge pot of money for a soon to be ex-president who clearly wants to have a role in the country politically. >> and likely he'll face anytime after january 20, could that be used for his legal defense?

>> yeah. use it for a whole slew of different things. there have been some challenges as to what exactly the limits are on these political action committees but the most part, they're allowed to use it however you want. pay yourself, pay staff, pay for travel. there's really very limit limits what a political action committee can be used to pay for. >> can you back up. he can pay himself? so he can pocket some of that money? >> some candidates have paid for the campaign committees as well, earned salary running for congress or the like. you can hire -- i don't know if you can directly pay himself a salary but certainly continue to pay his businesses. his presidential campaign committee, frequenting his hotel, those kinds of things. may not be a direct payment but indirectly through his businesses absolutely he can continue to use that money for. >> the president yet to concede this election. so that's going to be an underpinning what these appeals are about. right? is that why he's -- is he trying

to get monies and why he's at least in part not conceding the election? >> you know, i think at the very beginning thought there was a chance. at this point, the options are either gone or completely dwindled in court. and even appealing for money in the last couple of days, asking for a christmas ornament, to the rally in georgia. it will begin to take a new tactic and become the future trump show in politics. no question that contesting the election, claiming it was fraudulent was a tool that he and his campaign used to raise tens of millions of dollars in the days and the weeks after the election ended. >> extraordinary. "new york times," contributor, come see me again. vistriking new evidence america is losing the battle against the ppandemic. how bad will it get before the

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