for each of us to now decide, will we roll up our sleeves and take the next step? that's all for now. i'm lester holt. thanks for joining us. this sunday -- a covid crisis out of control. >> i actually believe they're going to be the most difficult time in the public health history of this nation. >> record hospitalizations. >> once they get to us, we're not seen a lot that make it out of here. >> record number of cases. >> i think we've not yet can seen the post-thanksgiving peak. >> record number of deaths. >> my dad thought me so much about life but never how to live without him. >> health care workers overworked and falling ill. >> when you're gone, there's just nobody who's going to take care of you when you're the hospital, and that should scare everyone. >> this morning i will talk to deborah birx, white house coronavirus response coordinator.

plus, after months of discord, help from congress may finally be on the way. >> there is momentum, there is momentum. >> compromise is within reach. >> but will it be enough? democratic senator joe manchin of west virginia joins me. and president trump holds a rally for the two republican senators in georgia's january runoff. >> they cheated and they rigged our presidential election, but we will still win it. >> focusing more on his own personal grievances than in helping the actual candidate. >> it has to stop. someone is going to get hurt. someone is going to get shot. someone is going to get killed. >> i'll talk to georgia elections official gabriel sterling. joining me for insight and analysis are nbc news national political correspondent steve kornacki. kimberly atkins, senior opinion writer for the "boston globe." reuters white house correspondent jeff mason. and danielle pletka of the american enterprise institute. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press."

>> from nbc news in washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. >> good sunday morning. consider what has happened over the past week. hospitalizations in the u.s. for covid-19 exceeded 100,000 for the first time. daily cases of covid-19 exceeded 200,000 for the first time and the second and the third and the fourth. the confirmed daily death toll from covid-19 exceeded 2,000 for the second time. and the third and the fourth and the fifth and the sixth. this past week covid was the leading cause of death in america. if only that were the worst of it. robert redfield, the head of the centers for disease control, says december, january, and february, will be the most difficult time in the public health history of this nation. >> i do think, unfortunately,

before we see february, we could be close to 450,000 americans have died from this virus. >> amid this exploding crisis, president trump gave what he said was, quote, maybe the most important speech i've ever made. it was not about covid. it was a 46-minute attack on american democracy. it was filled with debunked claims, false assertions and outright lies, charging that the democrats rigged the election to steal his presidency, that the president has chosen to ignore the worst health crisis we faced in 100 years almost doesn't matter anymore. what matters is both the good news, the emergence of multiple vaccines, and the bad news, rising case in death counts, are accelerating. but until those vaccines get here, overworked health care workers around the country are fighting a two-long battle to save lives and, more importantly, to convince skeptical americans to finally take this deadly virus seriously. >> it's hard to come into work some days knowing that you're

short and knowing you're going to see people die. >> we're tired. but we get up and we still do this every day. >> afraid we're going to get overrun by the sheer volume and the intensity of the sickness of the patients. >> we try to celebrate the small victories. recently it's few and far between. >> i have a 4-year-old and an 8-year-old and they don't run to the door anymore. we don't give hugs when i get home. >> around 400, 500 calls, at some points, maybe even more. like i said, almost every patient was covid. >> two weeks ago we were red, we were full. nowhere to ship people. we were keeping people too long. literally our doctors were begging regional medical centers to open a bed up. people -- they were going to die here.

>> it's an unfortunately common experience for emergency physicians like me to have encountered patients who just don't believe this is happening to them. >> a lot of people are making a lot of sacrifices to make this work so it's aggravating, frustrating for us to have difficulty conveying the seriousness of the situation. >> we've come a long way but people are dyeing still, people are getting sick. if we just hold it together for a few more months, i really think we're going to win. >> joining me now is the white house coronavirus response coordinator, dr. deborah birx. dr. birx, welcome back to "meet the press." you heard from the frontline medical workers. i know you travel the country speaking to a lot of these front line workers. do you understand their frustration now when they feel as if they're at their wit's end, they've been pulling the double and triple shifts, they've been working hard for eight months and half the country is not paying attention? >> i understand it completely and it's been a privilege to meet with them, from the

billings clinic in montana to across this great country, to meet with health care workers and hear their frustrations. and also meet with communities and hear their frustrations. i think we have to come together with a joint understanding of how this virus is spread and how we can prevent the spread. >> what do you say to the health care workers? you're saying this, you're wearing a mask indoors. this is the new cdc guidance if you're not in your home. i think you totally understand why they're doing that now. yet the white house and statehouse are throwing parties. as you know, this mixed messaging, you say one thing, dr. fauci says one thing and the president does another. >> i think it's really important that every single person understands that the way this virus is spread is if you're with anyone indoors without a

mask, that's a viral spreading opportunity. if you're outdoors and hugging and kissing individuals, that's a viral spreading opportunity. we have to really understand how contagious, how infectious this virus is. and it's really important at this moment in time that everyone understands also how much virus is out there. there isn't a state without increasing cases right now except hawaii. so this is where we find ourselves and we have to listen right now to what we know works, which is masks, physical distancing, washing your hands. but not gathering. you cannot gather without masks in any indoor or close outdoor situation. >> i don't mean to belabor this point and i understand your frustration as a public health official, being asked what is happening on the political side of things but the fact of the matter is we've been through this for eight months now, and

you have given us all of these warnings. again, the president and others in the administration just flout them. do you understand why in in the public say if he doesn't think it's a big deal, maybe he thinks all of the health people are overdoing it, overselling it? >> you know, i've heard that personally. when i go out, i just don't meet with health care providers and governors and mayors, but i also meet with community. so i hear community members parroting back those situations, parroting back that masks don't work, parroting back we should work towards herd immunity, pairing back that gatherings don't result in superspreading events. i think our job is constantly to say those are myths, they are wrong and you can see the evidence base. right now across the sunbelt, we have governors and mayors who have cases equivalent to what

they had in the summertime, yet aren't putting in the same policies and mitigations that they put in the summer that they know change the course of this pandemic across the south. so it is frustrating. not only do we know what works, governors and mayors use those tools to stem the tide in the spring and the summer. and this fall/winter surge is combining everything we saw in the spring and everything we saw in the summer, plus the fall surge going into a winter surge. i think that's what dr. redfield made this absolute appeal to the american people. this is not just the worse public health event. this is the worst event that this country will face, not just from a public health side. yet we know what behaviors spread the virus and we know how to change those behaviors to stop spreading the virus. >> what states right now, what governors, talk to them right now, what states would you like to see increase the mitigation

efforts right now? >> you know, all of the states are trying to do something and i don't want to be critical of any governor and mayor. i like to talk to them one on one where i can be very direct and really have a joint understanding of what they're data is showing. but every state across this country needs to increase their mitigation and every state needs to be critic lynn forming their state population that the gatherings we saw in thanksgiving will lead to a surge. it will happen this week and next week and we cannot go in to the holiday season, christmas, hanukkah, kwanzaa, with this same kind of attitude that those gatherings don't apply to me. they apply to everybody. if you don't want to lose your grandparents, your aunt. let's be clear, if you're over 70, 20% of those over 70 who contract covid are hospitalized

and still 10% are lost. if you have anyone in your family with comorbidity or over 70, you cannot do those things. can you not gather with your masks off. you cannot hug and kiss people outside. we won't have a -- i'm thrilled with a vaccine but we won't have them for the most vulnerable americans until february. so we need to do this now. yes, the nursing homes will be vaccinated but there's 100 million americans that have these comorbidity that put them at substantial risk. >> talk to me about the hospital systems right now. how close are some to breaking points? and what does breaking point mean for the average person watching right now? >> i think what's really critical for people to understand is our hospitals normally in the small and winter run between 80% and 90% full.

just caring for our routine health. so when you add 10%, 15%, 20%, covid-19 patients on top of that, that's what puts them at the breaking point. because our normal health care system runs at 80% to 90% full throughout the fall. i have seen -- and part of the reason i traveled, i have seen really successful examples, and that's part of the reason of going out is to find out what is not working but what also is working. we've seen in chicago, illinois, hospitals come together and create a unified dashboard so they know at any one time for every single patient that comes into the emergency room where there is a bed that serves the needs of that individual patient. we've taken that across the states so that they understand how to do that same kind of sharing and dashboard. so there are good examples that can help preserve the lives of others, but i want to be very frank to the american people, the vaccine is critical but it's not going to save us from this

current surge. only we can save us from this current surge and we know precisely what to do. if you have loved ones you want to protect, you have have to follow these guidelines now. >> as the cdc came out very late, about a week before thanksgiving, and advised against travel during thanksgiving, are we going to get travel advisories for christmas and new year's sooner than what we got before thanksgiving? >> i think they're already saying that. i think they've made it very clear about how dangerous travel is because it mixes households. i think what we've learned over the last eight to nine months is how significant this asymptomatic spread is. that's the silent spread. those are individuals who are younger and just don't know they're infected. so they're passing on the virus. we called on every state to

increase their testing, particularly for those under 40, so they can be -- you can find that asymptomatic spread before it infects their aunts, their grandparents, their uncles and it's what universities did. we have examples now, very clear examples, universities that tested 100% of their students on and off campus at least weekly, infected less than 1% of their student body. when you test the way the united states is testing, symptomatic, contact tracing, some surveillance, 10% of their student body became infected. so we have an example how important testing is as part of this whole public health response, along with masking, physical distancing and our hand hygiene and stopping our gatherings outside of households. >> dr. deborah birx, response coordinator for the coronavirus task force, i will leave it there. i appreciate you coming on and sharing these dire warnings. i hope your boss also hears the

same dire warnings you're telling the rest of us. thank queue for coming on. >> thank you for having me. turning now to financial relief from the covid crisis, joining me is the democratic senator from west virginia, joe manchin. senator manchin, welcome back to "meet the press." >> good morning, chuck. always good to be with you. >> i want to start first with the situation with the virus here. you just heard from dr. birx, you heard from dr. fauci. i think the frustration is, why is it that we can't have even washington unified? why kaecan't even you guys in t united states senate come together and say, hey, let's wear a mask. it does seem absurd how polarized we've gotten over this and it does seem to emanate from one individual, the president. >> yes, it sure does. in my view from the state of west virginia, we have over 800 deaths registered, 17,000 cases, chuck. we're now having 1,000 cases a day. we've never, ever, ever seen this, never thought we would.

and we're going into the most challenging difficult times. so absolutely we're concerned. the senate in washington as far as all of us, 100, most everybody is wearing masks. the senate has not met as a group since it started in march of this year. so we've been very diligent about that. our republican colleagues are not doing the same. they're doing more zooms now like we've been doing all along. so everyone, i believe, is taking this more serious. the president has not been as part of his political posturing. it's dangerous, very dangerous. close to 280,000 deaths so far, it's unbelievable. >> you see the models and they may double by april 1st. >> yeah, we're scared to death of that. >> let me go to what i invited you on for, it has to do with the bipartisan deal coming together. it looks like it will be just under a trillion dollars. how close are you, is this a deal we're going to see come to

fruition before the end of this coming week? >> it's a deal that must come together. we don't have a choice now. it's one of the things that has to be done and i will tell you a reason why. this is a -- i want people to understand, this is a covid emergency relief. started out as a relief framework. you've seen the framework. how we came to $908 billion in all the different categories. what we did as a group, we came together and said, listen, we have got to do something. after the election we started coalescing around, how do we move this forward? we looked at basically everything that was going to terminate at the end of december. the lifelines that people were depending on. whether it would be food assistance, whether it would be shelter, whether it would be health care. whether the necessities that people have, childcare that's needed to get our lives back. all of these things are going to be eliminated, chuck, and we said that can't be done. we cannot allow this to happen. democrats and republicans came together, and we're moving forward. >> it's not the deal that a lot of people think is needed, including the chair of the federal reserve.

he's concerned it's more likely you're underdoing than overdoing it. do you concur with him, are you worried that you're probably doing less than you should be doing? >> chuck, this is an emergency relief package only until april 1st, the first quarter, to get through the first quarter. every indication says more money is needed. we see that. this gets us through basically the lifelines people need and small businesses that can survive and not go under. unemployment checks that people are going to be losing. if we don't invest this money now, chuck, every indication says more is needed. president-elect joe biden said this a down payment. he can come in as president, when he does come in as president, his team can put together a different proposal that takes us further down the road for more recovery. if we don't do something now, both of my -- on both sides of the aisle, my colleagues have said the $908 billion of investment we make into the citizens of this country and try to keep this economy from collapsing could be more important than $2 trillion would

be in february/march if we do nothing, and maybe then it might be too late for so many people and small businesses. >> let me ask you a bigger question about the state of the two parties. why do you think joe biden outperformed the democratic party? and what lesson is there from joe biden that democrats can learn? because he clearly outperformed the democratic party. >> most certainly. my state, you know, i'm the last democrat standing. the bottom line is we've been identified as something we're not. i'm a west virginia democrat, proud west virginia democrat, and i don't know of any democrat that i know of that would ever defund the police. how that got on as a mantra as a democrat slogan, that's not true. how all of these other things that seem to be extreme are not true, it's not who we are. but we were tagged with that. we were slow probably as a party of responding to it and saying, listen, there's more to us. if you look at basically our bedrock of who we are, how do we

protect workers? how do we protect families, how do we have inclusion, income equality, things basically people are depending on in order to survive in this very, very difficult and troubled times. >> senator, you said, actually, you weren't just talking about this year though, you said i watched the last three elections, '16, '18, '20, we truly should have been in the majority and it didn't happen. >> it tells you -- >> why is that? >> it tells you the message we have is not for all american. basically, who are we as a party? if you're a democrat, why are you a democrat? i tell people, i'm fiscally responsible and socially compassionate. can't you be both? can't you be officially responsible and socially compassion? do you want to be labeled as a democrat? do you want to give anything away without any accountability? it's not who i am. it's not the democrats i was raised with. that's basically what we lost, who we are, how we basically will fight for workers' rights,

human rights and yet still do so in a reasonable way that doesn't put so much burden on people to say listen, unless i'm hurting, unless i'm in the minority, unless i'm this, you're given more attention, we're not. we're trying to bring everybody together with the same opportunities. we're not basically explaining that in a way the average american understands and we're allowing other people to tag us. that's just unfair. it really is. to have anybody, chuck, that basically -- the president is doing, blaming the democrats for everything. i told president trump one time, i said, mr. president, why are you blaming the democrats? if it wasn't for the democrats that were upset, you would have never been president. why don't you bring us together rather than dividing us further? >> joe manchin, democrat from west virginia, as he said, still a proud democrat from west virginia. thank you for coming on and sharing your perspective with us, sir, i appreciate it. >> all right. coming up -- >> stop inspiring people to commit potentialize violence. someone's going to get hurt, someone's going to get shot, someone's going to get killed. >> the republican election official pushing back on

president trump's repeated false claims that the election in georgia was rigged. gabriel sterling joins me this morning. morning. rent way? i wanted to help protect myself. my doctor recommended eliquis. eliquis is proven to treat and help prevent another dvt or pe blood clot. almost 98 percent of patients on eliquis didn't experience another. -and eliquis has significantly less major bleeding than the standard treatment. eliquis is fda-approved and has both. don't stop eliquis unless your doctor tells you to. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. don't take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. if you had a spinal injection while on eliquis call your doctor right away if you have tingling, numbness, or muscle weakness. while taking eliquis, you may bruise more easily- and it may take longer than usual for bleeding to stop. seek immediate medical care for sudden signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising. eliquis may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. what's around the corner could be worth waiting for.

ask your doctor about eliquis. what's around the corner could be worth waiting for. recommercials witht exciting stunts. so to help you remember that liberty mutual customizes your home insurance, here's something you shouldn't try at home... look, liberty mutual customizes home insurance so we only pay for what we need. it's pretty cool. that is cool! grandma! very cool. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ transitions light under control. ♪ upbeat music transitions signature gen 8,

available now in 4 new style colors. transitions.

welcome back. president trump made his first campaign trip yesterday since election day, and he made it when he went to georgia. mr. trump is supposedly working to re-elect republican senators david purdue and kelly loeffler while focusing more on his baseless claims georgia's election system is rigged and he won georgia's 16 electoral votes. that brought a spirited response this week from top georgia election official, republican gabriel sterling. directed at both mr. trump and fellow republicans who have been repeating his falsehoods. >> it has to stop. this is the backbone of democracy and all of you who have not said a damn word are complicit in this. >> gabriel sterling joins me now. mr. steriling, welcome to "meet the press," sir. >> good morning, chuck. >> i want to play something from last night and get you to respond to this on the other side. here's what he said about

georgia. >> we're all deeply disturbed and upset by the lying, cheating, robbing, stealing, that's gone on with our elections. we know the democrats will have dead people voting, they have people signing their own name over and over. they have -- they have people signing names with the same pen, with the same signature that they don't even change because they know once they get it in, it will never be looked at, it will never be looked at again because of people like your secretary of state and your governor. >> mr. sterling, you had made an impassioned plea there we just played that this has to stop. doesn't look like he chose to stop. could you please debunk what he said there when it comes to your role in the georgia elections? >> as this point as a whack-a-mole as we've been saying, the president's statements are false, there's misinformation, they're stoking anger and fear among supporters. i voted for him.

the situation is getting much worse. it's an environment that built over years and not just republicans. even in polling up to 2019, up to 50% of democrats think russians flipped votes on machines. this is going both ways. this undermines democracy. we have to get to a point y responsible people act responsibly. >> i'm just curious, what was it that sparked your decision to come out as, you know, come out as direct as you came out earlier this week. was there a specific incident or incidents happening to you or others? >> it wasn't happening to me. obviously, i have a police car outside my house right now. i can see it out of my peripheral vision. there's protection for my wife's secretary, she received death threats on her cell phone. but for what lack of a better word set me off on tuesday is an hour and a half before a previously scheduled news conference, i got a call from the project manager from dominion voting systems out of

colorado who was telling me in a very audibly shaken voice that one of their contractors had received some threats in gwinnett county. this is just a young tech. he took a job several weeks ago. one of the better ones. i was going through the twitter feed and i have the young man's name. unique name so they tracked down his family, harassing them, they said his name, you committed treason, may god have mercy on your soul with a slowly swinging noose, and at that point i said, i'm done. >> you know, you said something else earlier this week. you said, let's face it, senator loeffler and senator purdue were forced to ask from my boss, senator raffensperger's resignati resignation, and he would do two tweets and kaput their campaigns. do you stand by those comments? do you really believe loeffler and purdue had to do what trump said? >> there was nothing else to think. even their staff was surprised when they put that out. it had been a week and a half

since the election had been over. and to say -- one of the things they said is we were not transparent. we were literally doing two press conferences a day, sending out hourly press releases on the count. nobody had a specific allegation. they just want to keep the trump supporters whipped up because they think that's the best path to win the senate races. i personally think by doing what i had asked, stepping up and saying there's disinformation about potential intimidation and violence has to stop. they would get more votes rather thanless. i'm still supporting it. we have to. i am a republican. we need to hold on to the senate. i'm still voting for them, but i'm not happy about how they conducted themselves in this particular situation. >> i was going to ask there, you seem to want to be viewed as somebody who has the highest ethics, highest integrity, particularly in a position you're in right now when it comes to helping oversee elections. do you believe these folks running as republicans right now

have the same ethical standards you have? >> that's going to be an easy question. politics is a complicated conception, i said that earlier this week too. the value that you fight for, sometimes it gets to be complicated and difficult. i said something difficult on tuesday to people in a position of responsibility who i would hope would show a higher sense of leadership and duty. but at the end of the day i believe their opponents would do more damage than they would on this particular front on that particular day. >> do you regret your vote for president trump now? >> i can say one thing, i would have been a lot happier if it had been 13,000 votes the other way in the state, my life would have been a lot easier. >> considering how he's behaved, do you ask yourself, hmm, maybe he isn't the right person to lead the country, at least if this is what he's going to do to the democracy? >> i think we have this on all sides. president trump has a higher spence of responsibility, should be held to a higher standard. but we have a governor candidate who still hasn't succeeded.

we have people, as i said earlier, who believe russia switched votes. we have all sides and the president needs to stand up for that especially. >> do you believe the president is doing damage to the republican party in georgia by continuing to stir this pot? >> yes. >> do you think it could cost loeffler and purdue his senate races? >> yes, he and his lawyers and even former lawyers, they're literally saying don't vote. it's mixed messaging, it's confusing, and if you're telling people don't trust the election system, why would they bother to vote? the argument is if you they're stealing it, show up and vote to make it at least a little bit harder for them to steal. >> gabriel sterling who, again, helps to oversee the elections system there, working for the secretary of state. you spoke out pretty hard this week. i appreciate you coming on and sharing your perspective with us, sir. >> thank you, chuck. i wish i didn't have to do it. >> all right. please stay safe out there. >> thanks. when we come back, could president trump's phony claims about rigged elections keep enough republicans from voting in georgia's runoff election and risk handing the senate to the democrats? the panel is next. you work hard for your money.

stretched days for it. juggled life for it. took charge for it. so care for it. look after it. invest with the expertise of j.p. morgan, either with an advisor or online, through chase. after all, it's yours. chase. make more of what's yours. whoa! someone please help! of course. you're tenacious, i'll give you that! it's ok, i'm ok... [heavy breathing] where are you? coming! let's do this! yeaahh! it's on!! woooo! whoa... [heavy breathing] rated rp to t.

...this one's for you. you inspired us to make your humira experience even better... with humira citrate-free. it has the same effectiveness you know and trust, but we removed the citrate buffers, there's less liquid, and a thinner needle... with less pain immediately following injection. ask your doctor about humira citrate-free. and you can use your co-pay card to pay as little as $5 a month. humira can lower your ability to fight infections. serious and sometimes fatal infections,... ...including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened,... ...as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems,... ...serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common... and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections,... or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. ask your doctor about humira citrate-free. the same humira you trust with less pain immediately following injection. if you can't afford your medicine, abbvie may be able to help.

. . . i had hiv, it was difficult for . . . . . . me to accept. i decided . . . . . . hiv doesn't define me. my name's dimitri. and i'm on biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment . . . . . . used for hiv in certain adults. it's not a cure, but with one small pill . . . . . . biktarvy fights hiv to help you get to and stay undetectable. that's when the amount of virus is so low . . . . . . it cannot be measured by a lab test. serious side effects can occur, including kidney problems and kidney failure. rare, life-threatening side effects include a build-up of lactic acid and liver problems. do not take biktarvy if you take dofetilide or rifampin. tell your doctor about all the medicines and supplements you take, . . . . . . if you are pregnant or breastfeeding, or if you have kidney or liver problems, including hepatitis. if you have hepatitis b, do not stop taking biktarvy without talking to your doctor. common side effects were diarrhea, nausea, and headache. if you're living with hiv . . . . . . keep loving who you are. and ask your doctor if biktarvy is right for you.

welcome back. it is panel time. nbc news national political correspondent steve kornacki, kimberly atkins, senior opinion writer for the "boston globe." reuters correspondent, jeff mason. and danielle pletka. mr. kornacki, i'll start with something "the wall street journal" editorial board said on thursday. here's what they wrote about the president in georgia. "at least for now he can say

with justification he helped the gop gain seats in the house and avoid a rout in the senate. but that narrative changes for the worst, if the gop loses in georgia, mr. trump divided his own party to serve his personal political interests." i don't think anything changed watching that event last night, steve. >> yeah, i think there's a real risk here for republicans in georgia. it works on two fronts. i think you mentioned one of them there and that's simply the core trump base, core republican base in georgia, with everything president trump is saying about republicans in that state, integrity of elections in georgia, everything he's alleging there, does that depress the core republican base in any way? i think the other big concern republicans have to have, it's clear when you look at results since november, there are split-ticket voters in georgia, you know, joe biden was able to beat trump by about 12,000 votes, meanwhile, in that purdue/ossoff race, purdoor finished 88,000 votes ahead of ossoff. when you break it down, i think you see voters particularly in the atlantic metro area often in

well-to-do places, roswell, sandy springs, places like this, you saw the dynamic most at work. folks it really seems went out on election day in november and said they want to do two things, vote against trump and vote against democrats having control of the senate. i think the risk for republicans is trump's not going to be on the ballot in this january runoff. to the extent trump makes this election about him, do those same voters who, you know, had that instinct to vote against democrats, do they say, you know what, this is too much about trump, i'm going to use this to vote against trump again? >> danielle pletka, that was the story of the 2018 midterms where it became a proxy and a way to sort of send a message to trump. i know this is sort of -- this president is somebody that knows how to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, but if he wants to be forbmidable in 2024, loosing georgia senate seats is not the way to get there. he will get the blame for even one loss now, will he not?

>> there's no question. by the way, if he has anybody to blame, it will be himself because he is the one that has chosen to make this about him. he's the one that has chosen to continue this narrative about the stolen election. he had a couple of kind words for the two candidates who are up in georgia in a few weeks, but he spent most of last night's rally talking about himself and he is going to depress turnout and he will get the blame, make no mistake. >> jeff mason, you're in that white house every day. look, i'm aware there are people that are trying to change his sort of, at least, public posture on all of this stuff. he seems more dug in than ever. >> yes, he absolutely does. and those people that you're referring to, chuck, just aren't the ones he's listening too. there are advisers who are saying, hey, focus on your legacy and the georgia race will be a part of that legacy as danny and steve were just saying but there are so many other things that he could be focusing on but he's not.

he's listening to the people who are continuing to say keep fighting on and those people are the ones that we see as part of the legal challenges, rudy giuliani, jen ellis, and that team. >> kimberly atkins, even when you here -- when bill barr comes out, i want to put up his quote, he says, "qu"today -- this was tuesday -- "we have not seen fraud on a scale that could have affected a different outcome in the election." he said that on tuesday to the associated press. i imagine if this changed, they would be screaming from the rooftop of the justice department building screaming, hey, this has changes, so they are, still nothing there and now the president wants to turn on him. >> right. we are seeing the same play book where the president is now reportedly fuming and considering firing bill barr, he himself said wait for a couple of weeks. meanwhile, there's only six weeks left in the trump administration. but bill barr, who to be sure,

has been a staunch sporter of donald trump's both his policies and his rhetoric right up to the election, even casting his own doubt about the election security and the possibility of fraud. even empowering his own prosecutors to publicly initiate investigation. changing the doj policy leading up to the election in a way that could have influenced voters' confidence in it, but a the end of the day, there was no there, there, and even the attorney general cannot start criminal investigations into something that didn't happen. whether the president likes that or not, that was the line that bill barr finally -- >> right. >> -- drew and as you said, the best evidence that nothing has happened. >> and, jeff mason, besides -- the other thing that the president focused on this week besides his these -- his own election problems, and he ignored covid again, he started talking about we have the pardon situation and they're making

these radical changes at the pentagon where they're firing a defense board and appointing a couple campaign operatives from campaigns fast. corey lewandowski and david b s bossi. what is going on? what is the president trying to do to biden's presidency in these past few weeks by putting people, planting them inside the government, what's the strategy? >> a number of things, chuck. i think number one, despite the fact he's not conceded the election to president-elect biden, he's aware of the fact he will be leaving, he being president trump, on january 20th. so he wants to leave as many hurdles as he can for his successor. and that includes what you were talking about at the pentagon. it includes the difficulty he's made it up until just a week or two ago for biden and his team to get access to information. and it also suggests despite him pushing forward to challenge this election, he is aware of a legacy and he wants that legacy to be this, and he wants that legacy to have an impact on his successor.

some would say in the same way he tried to undermine president obama when he was in office. >> dani pletka, is a there a good-faith effort by electing corey lewandowski and david bosi to the review board? >> an argument, this board always had a relationship to the community, but on the other hand, the whole-scale purge, senior republicans, like j.d.crouse, someone like henry kissinger for goodness sakes, that smacks of the kind of cronyism and dictatorial loyalty test donald trump loves. on the other hand, i don't think that's going to throw up much of a barrier to joe biden because he can push out all of these new appointments almost as easily as donald trump's folks did. >> i think that's something that everybody's figuring out here. i wonder if the trump folks

realize how much time they may be wasting doing what they're doing right now. we shall see. i'm going to pause here. when we come back, the presidential election was not as close as you might think but it was a lot closer than elections some of us grew up with. that's next. did you know that your clothes can actually attract pet hair? with new bounce pet hair & lint guard, your clothes can repel pet hair. look how the shirt on the left attracts pet hair like a magnet! pet hair is no match for bounce. with bounce, you can love your pets, and lint roll less. to syour body needs routine. system,

centrum helps your immune defenses every day, with vitamin c, d and zinc. season, after season. ace your immune support, with centrum. ♪ you're still the one ♪ that i love to touch ♪ still the one ♪ and i can't get enough ♪ we're still having fun, ♪ and you're still the one applebee's 2 for $20. now that's eating good in the neighborhood.

one of the worst things about a cois how it can make you feel. but, when used at the first sign, abreva can get you back to being you in just 2 and a half days. be kinder to yourself and tougher on your cold sores.

i offered to meet with him so we can start to heal the divisions of the campaign. >> the american people have spoken and they have spoken clearly. >> our constitutional democracy enshrines the peaceful transfer of power. "meet the press" date to download brought to you by pfizer. >> welcome back. "data download" time. more than a month after election

day, the story for many is just how close the presidential race was. yet although many expected a wider margin, the relative closeness of biden's 4 1/2-point popular victory over donald trump should not have been a surprise. because when compared to recent years it wasn't really that close at all. biden's margin of victory was also bigger in all but one election in 2000, including george w. bush's 2 1/2-point win in 2004 and barack obama's 3.9 percentage point win in 2012. in fact, the only bigger margin was barack obama's 2008 which was actually only just above a 7 percentage point victory over john mccain. as we all learned in 2000 and 2016, the popular vote does not decide the presidency. it's the electoral college. those victories have also been narrowing as well. in fact, since 2000, only once has a presidential candidate carried more than 30 states. george w. bush with 31 in 2004. now, that may sound like a lot today, but a presidential candidate breaking 30 states, well, that used to be pretty

common. at least in my childhood. let's take a look at the '80s. each presidential winner in that decade captured 40 or more states on the way to the white house. even bill clinton carried more than 30 states. in fact, we can go even further back, in the 19th elections from 1920 to 1992, the winner of the presidential race carried fewer than 32 states just 3 times. now, remember, bush's 31-state win in 2004 is the most states we've seen a candidate win in the 21st century, period. here's another way to think about it, since 1988, every presidential election has been decided by single-digit margins in the popular vote. nine straight presidential elections going back to george h.w. bush's victory in '88. to find the last time a country had a string of close races like that, you'd have to go back more than a century when the country saw seven consecutive single-digit elections between 1876 and 1900. think about that period of time. right, the economy was transitioning.

we were getting out of the civil war still. not a surprise that that was a polarizing time as well. the deep divides in our country made razor-thin margins the norm every four years, make it increasingly difficult for whichever party comes out on top get anything done. when we come back, how hard is it to keep all of the factions of the democratic party happy these days? president-elect joe biden is finding out. finding out. ♪ ♪ ♪ you're all, you're all i need ♪ ♪ you're all, you're all i need ♪

♪ as long as i got you then baby ♪ ♪ you know that you've got me, oh! yea...♪ ♪ ((boy)r) hhelping kids.s. ♪ you know that you've got me, oh! yea...♪ (dad) helping families. (women) helping pets. (vo) these are the lives subaru retailers have impacted in our communities, through our support of over fourteen hundred hometown charities. in fact, subaru and our retailers will have proudly donated over two hundred million dollars to national and hometown charities through the subaru share the love event. (vo) get 0% for 63 months and subaru will donate 250 dollars to charity.

did is locatedhat 70% of youin your gut?tem to boost your immune system: try align gut health & immunity support. align's quality probiotic strain, adds more good bacteria to your gut, to help strengthen your immunity. try align today. the team's been working around the clock.wire,

we've had to rethink our whole approach. we're going to give togetherness. logistically, it's been a nightmare. i'm not sure it's going to work. it'll work. i didn't know you were listening.

welcome back. now a little bit of a focus on the incoming administration. steve kornacki, as president-elect biden puts together a cabinet, you won't be surprised not everybody's happy with the picks so far. there's a little bit of an issue when it comes to representation. let me just put together a few comments we have here. i really thought at this stage of the game i would see more african-american appointments in the top positions, said bonnie watson coleman, a democratic member of congress from new jersey. it's no secret that we don't see too many asian-americans there, do we, said the dnc's chair of the asian-american pacific islander caucus. we're very, very concerned as a community, as a latino community, said congressman vicente gonzalez. steve, it appears it's, you know, right now we know latinos, they believe they don't have anybody. it looks like of the big four. you see african-americans, jim clyburn has seen this. he would like to see that pace

increase. what kind of pressure is the biden campaign feeling on this. >> there's the question of demographic representation, the progressive wing of the party, what they're looking for here. i do think the context when you talk about demographic representation, the political context of this is interesting because of course the victory that joe biden just put up in the november election came with democrats actually losing ground with non-white voters. i think specifically with latino voters, to some degree with african-american men. certainly there's some evidence there especially when you look at like orange county in california, look at some of the house races out there. i think asian-americans voters as well. so democrats come into this administration, i think the last four years -- really the trump era, i should say, putting a lot of their future, i think a lot of their future calculations on growing non-white population and an assumption they're going to continue to rack up -- but not as wide a margin as they were expecting. i think that's one of those questions to be looking at going

forward. is there a start of a trend there that continues in some way and could alarm democrats? >> kimberly atkins, as steve mentioned, it's not just about demographic representation. you have ideological disputes as well. we know bernie sanders world notice happy, for instance, that neera tanden is the designee for budget director. what does the campaign have to worry about politically both on these ideological appointments and on the demographic appointments? >> i think the main issue here isn't so much necessarily counting the numbers. are there "x" number of progressives, "x" number of black and brown folks in his cabinet? it's who they are, where they are, and what they are doing, and i think that applies in both these situations. you have the biden administration coming in in the middle of a pandemic and right on the heels of things like protests, demands for justice in the form of policing reform.

and so you see the people, and while it's true -- what steve said is true, the share of black and brown voters shrunk, but it was black and brown voters in states like georgia, in states like wisconsin and michigan that helped joe biden win. and what i am hearing from folks who are not entirely pleased with his picks so far is that he's not shown that the people closest to him understand the issues that drove those voters to the polls in the first place, understand the issues that if you're talking about growing the party will continue to push more of those voters, whether it's progressives, black people, brown people, latinos, asian-americans to the polls to ensure that the democratic party that it is the party for them. and i know that joe biden wants to rely on people that he knows, people that he trusts, which includes neera tanden. at the same time he has to be willing to listen to those who are closest to him. so he has to demonstrate that in some of these positions that are remaining, particularly hhs and attorney general. those are the ones that folks are watching closely. >> they definitely are.

i think xavier becerra suddenly being a front-runner at hhs tells you -- he's the current attorney general in california, former member of congress. i think that tells you they've at least been listening to the latino criticism. jeff mason here, it does seem as if joe biden has got an interesting challenge here. i think he does owe some representation, particularly the african-american community. i mean he said it himself. they had his back, so he's got to have theirs. but one could argue he has a mandate to diss progressives. he probably can't get caught saying it that way, but they were decidedly not only not with him, they tried to defeat him. >> well, yes, and i think the message from biden camp on all of this, whether it's progressives or concern from other minority groups is, we hear you, but we've got this. and he does feel like he has a mandate, and he's also facing the reality that president trump did not face, which is that when he governs, he is likely to

continue to face challenges from his own party. but he's aware of that, and he has said repeatedly, look, i didn't -- i didn't pull the wool over anybody's eyes during this election. i'm a moderate. that's who i am. that's my background, and that's how i'm going to govern. >> danny, a democrat's moderate is still a conservative's liberal. and this cabinet that joe biden is putting together, though, it looks more center-left than it does progressive-left. >> well, it does in some cases. you know, politico reported last week that national security progressives and far left activist groups like win without war and code pink are now trying to coordinate their response to these appointments. they're trying to stop, for example, michele flournoy, who is one of biden's candidates to head the department of defense -- they don't like her because she's worked with defense contractors, and i think that's what we're going to see is that there is going to be pushback. let's remember all of these

political parties -- this happened with donald trump as well. once they lose that outside boogeyman, they become circular firing squads, and it becomes very hard to get stuff done. >> steve kornacki, tonight you're supposed to explain the nfl playoff picture to us. here in washington, the football team would like to know if they can make the playoffs, but a lot of us are thinking, are we going to have a recount when it comes to the nfc east and maybe those ballots ought to be thrown out? >> the nfc east is going to test, if it's possible, for six in ten to make the playoffs. those three teams are playing today who are near the top right now. the possibility that no one's going to have a losing record i think very strong there -- a winning record. >> forget the pressure of election night mapping. we're going to see you tonight, football night in america, with steve kornacki. i look forward to it. thank you all, panel. terrific. thank you all for watching with us. we'll be back next week because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." week because

if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." she was more than a high-powered businesswoman. she touched a lot of people's lives. >> no, no! >> i was devastated. i can't really go back there. >> he was rich. she was richer. the lawyer and the tycoon. lavish didn't even begin to describe it. >> diane was very flamboyant. >> she was the life of the party. >> a good mix of wealth and power. they knew how l