that's the safe harbor deadline for electors and one of two possible deadlines that republicans have set for themselves to acknowledge that joe biden is the president-elect. after that, "washington post" survey we know where they all stand. let's see if it changes. thanks for getting up "way too early" on this monday morning. don't go anywhere. "morning joe" starts right now. the poll book is completely off. completely off. >> off by 30,000? >> i would say that poll book is off by over 100,000. that poll book -- why don't you look at the registered voters on there. how many registered voters are on there? did you -- do you know the answer to that? >> no, i'm trying to get to the bottom of this here. >> zero. there's zero. >> please just talk. >> you're going to regret saying that. because i personally saw hundreds if not thousands of dead people vote. >> you saw them? >> yeah. basically, yes. i remember because i was walking out and they were walking in.

then they gave their votes to democrats and then you probably did some crazy something with them, didn't you? >> i don't handle ballots and i'm a republicans. >> then you're literally useless. did you check every poll? did you talk to all of the dead people? >> we're state senators. >> excuse me, i have been threatened. my kids have been threatened. my kids have threatened me and i have threatened them right back. >> i'm sorry, but this testimony is full of lies. >> i'm not lying. i signed an after david. >> an after david? >> that's correct. david signed and then i signed right after david. >> wow. cecily strong, not disappointing on "snl" with her portrayal of the trump campaign so-called witness in the michigan, again, so called hearing.

a lot happened despite the ongoing results, joe biden has officially secured enough electors to become president. >> that guy has got to be tired of winning. >> he keeps winning. >> he keeps on winning. >> that came when california certified its election results on friday and appointed 55 electors pledged to vote for biden putting biden over the 270 threshold of states that have certified the election results. despite that, one month after election day, just 27 congressional republicans acknowledged joe biden's clear victory over president trump. "washington post" survey of all 249 republicans in the house and senate began last week that found that two republicans considered trump the winner overall. evidence showing otherwise and another 220 gop members of the

house and senate and about 88% of all republicans serving in congress will simply not say who won the election. also since late last week, president trump and republican party allies lost five more election cases. in nevada, arizona, michigan, minnesota and wisconsin with the federal judge there calling the trump campaign's requests to nullify election results quote, bizarre. meanwhile, president trump headlined a rally in georgia on saturday. intended to build support for the two republican candidates whose tight runoff elections will determine control of the senate but he spent much of the time listing his own grievances. there was little mask wearing at the event even though a day before georgia had recorded the highest number of new covid cases yet. and you may remember that toward

the end of the election, those staged behind the president wore masks for the cameras. but saturday night, even that section most of the supporters went without masks. and speaking of the coronavirus, we learned yesterday that rudy giuliani is now the latest member of president trump's circle to test positive for covid-19. last night, giuliani tweeted, thank you to all my friends and followers for all of the prayers and kind wishes. i'm getting great care. of course he is. and feeling good. recovering quickly and keeping up with everything. well, isn't that nice for him? with us we have white house reporter and associated press reporter jonathan lemire. host of msnbc's "politicsnation" and president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton. nbc news capitol hill correspondent and host of "way too early," kasie hunt. good to have you with us this morning.

>> let's go through a couple of these top stories. biden wins again. he keeps winning. >> he's won. >> yeah. yeah. i mean, he's won, but he keeps getting declared the winner. court cases dismissed as bizarre. republican judges, democratic judges, trump appointed judges dismissing these cases as bizarre. and "the washington post" survey that only 27 republicans are now admitting that joe biden won the presidential race, that everybody knows joe biden won in washington, d.c. mitch mcconnell had said from the start, kasie hunt, if we count all the votes and then the president has his court challenges and those are resolved then we can move on. that's happened.

over 270 electoral votes have been certified and yesterday only 27 republicans are acknowledging that joe biden's the winner. this is a republican party that at least in washington, d.c., has moved on to a post democracy phase where they -- we can look at state legislators in pennsylvania, republicans, who are actually signing letters saying they want to throw out tens of millions -- well, not tens of millions but millions and millions of votes in pennsylvania. they want to move beyond democracy. they want to dismiss election results that don't suit them just like, you know, dictators in russia or dictators in iran or dictators in venezuela would do. >> well, behind the scenes, joe, republicans are acting, acknowledging, operating under the reality that we all know to

be true, which is that joe biden is going to take office on january 20th. but they are refusing to say it in public as "the washington post" very carefully documented with all of their hard work. i mean, mitch mcconnell has already referred to the quote/unquote new administration. he did not do that with any fanfare. it was something that was -- it was a brief moment in a regularly scheduled press conference. it came and went. a lot of people obviously read into that, but as we know mcconnell and joe biden have a relationship already and it's clear that that relationship is already influencing negotiations on capitol hill over government funding and covid relief. but what's happening in public doesn't line up with that. and the reality is that republican voters, people who support president trump are listening to president trump, who is saying things in public, who is filling that void and you can see in focus groups, in

polling, you know, people who are talking to these voters on the ground, i mean, open up the facebook feed of anyone who is inclined to be open to believing what the president is saying and it's pretty clear that this is the message that's getting out. and i think the question is going to be does it last? what happens in 2021-22, you have talked about i know about president trump and where he goes in here. probably nowhere. he's now lost in your words, but i think this damage that's being done is something that is unpredictable. we haven't seen it before. we haven't had a political party that has collectively at the national level said this. you know, not been willing to do this. i mean, if you think back to anyone of the elections, everyone would have been

outraged if obama wasn't declared the winner and everyone is still angry over how al gore was handled in the 2000 election. tomorrow is the safe harbor deadline and they have to be certified so we can figure out who the president will be when they formally meet the following week. they can still step up or they can step up now if they choose to. i don't know if we'll see it. >> yeah. it is remarkable what we saw this weekend. just like it's been remarkable what we have seen over the last four weeks. it's been staggering what we have seen over the last four years. i read and reread joan didion a lot of these days as she was coming to terms with the radicalism of the 1960s, feeling like she lived in a country that she no longer understood. and i just thought -- i thought

how remarkable it was that when i was a small child, my family was scared and i think most of middle america was scared by a lot of the radical changes they saw in a country they didn't recognize anymore and here we are 50 years later and a lot of americans are scared again. and let me -- if you don't mind, let me read this as i saw the scenes out of eldosta. joan didion after seeing what happened in haight-ashbury. this is the first time i dealt with the proof that all things fall apart. i was paralyzed by the conviction that the world as i had understood it no longer

existed. it was the trail of intention gone haywire. and she -- and slouching towards bethlehem she also talks about the hemorrhaging. she says it was not a country in open revolution, it was not a country under enemy siege. it was the united states of america and the market was steady. the gdp was high. and it might have been a spring of brave hopes and natural promise, but it was not. and more and more people had the uneasy apprehendtion that it was not. all that seemed clear was that at some point we had aborted ourselves and butchered the job. and so i went to san francisco. san francisco was where the social hemorrhaging was showing up. it was where the missing children were gathering. it was where they were calling

themselves hippies. reverend al, here we are from haight-ashbury in 1967 and joan didion talking about a world going haywire and we fast forward to 2020 and it's valdosta, georgia, and it's people living in another world. a people just like the hippies that joan didion was describing in 1967 that were trying to create an alternate reality. and how absolutely bizarre that this is where conservatism ended in response to the craziness of the 1960s and it is, by the way, i was there every step of the way. there i was in the baptist church every step of the way. i was there in the conservative movement. every step of the way. i was there in the white suburban ya every step of the way. i represented it every step of

the way. i have been living in northwest florida, every step of the way and living in suburban communities every step of the way, where people are pushing back against the radicalism of the 1960s and as joan didion said, it was an intention. it was a trail, it had gone haywire. and you look at what happened this weekend. as a representative of everything that we have seen over the past four years and this is the mirrored reflection of haight-ashbury in 1967, except the radicals who are trying to tear down the institutions, the radicals who are trying to undermine america, that are trying to create an alternate reality now, are donald trump and his so-called conservative followers. >> no doubt about it. i think what didion describes

and i lived in that era as well on the other side as a young black activist clergyman, but the difference i think in this kind of move and kind of disregard and bringing down of institutions is it is being led by the president of the united states and those that are in charge of those institutions. there is a huge difference, same kind of move, but a huge difference when you have people that go to haight-ashbury or other places that drop out or try to redefine what society is and is not, and in those that are in charge of those institutions and societies, that decide that they're going to in some way change how those institutions that they are in charge of and that under the rules became in charge of that. we're going to change the rules

now. this is not being led by a hippie smoking some marijuana on a mountainside in california or dropping lsd with timothy leary. this is the president of the united states walking around with the football. >> but rev, i completely understand. i'm talking though about the masses of people that my parents would look at -- >> absolutely. >> -- and they would look at the people and they would say, who are these people? what are they doing? where did they come from? and now, we understand and know, you and i better than most, understand and know who donald trump is. but we look at all of those people in the crowd who are following an authoritarian, who are following a fascist leader, who want to overturn democratically elected results and i'm asking the same question of them. no moral equivocation between

someone dropping acid in haight-ashbury and the president of the united states trying to turn this into the authoritarian country. none whatsoever. but we're talking about a sick society and a large part of that society who have lost their way and you look in those crowds in valdosta and that's what frightens me. it's not donald trump. it frightens me that those people hate democracy so much, those people have been so swayed by a fascist leader that they now are actively calling for the overturning of millions and millions of votes -- >> and will risk getting sick. >> at the risk of getting sick, yeah. >> and what is is a coup. >> the head of state has been able to lure them into this.

they feel protected because he's the head of state, but the fact is what is motivating this anti-institutional societal kind of structure that they're now totally swept up in to wiping away. i think you're absolutely right and the point is that they have gotten to such a level to where they will rip the face mask off their face and risk their own health. i mean, what gets you out there? you are the ones fighting the people that did that in the '60s. you have become the opposite side of that, to what end? i really think that you're right. the disturbing part is who is in the crowd that is going for that even when you have a senate candidate standing up there that is in the u.s. senate that can't flatly say, yes, the president lost and there was no fraud in my state. where are we, how did we get

here? >> there will be a lot of questions that we have to answer over the years to come. if we get the chance, because we're not there yet, honestly. let's get to some must read opinion pages. in his latest op-ed entitled jonah goldberg writes for the dispatch, quote, if six months ago i were to describe the last month to politicians still rewarding and encouraging trump's behavior, most would say i was succumbing to trump derangement syndrome. oh, come on, he wouldn't do that they'd say. even those who thought the affront might be possible they'd take great offense if i followed up with not only will he try to steal the election with deranged conspiracy theories, but you won't say boo about it. in fact, you will even say he should run again. well, that's happened.

they created this self-destructive mess. they created it by refusing to take the right path not just because the right path was hard, but because the wrong path was so easy. the safest road to hell is the gradual one. the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without milestones, without sign posts. now america isn't in hell, but the people who did nothing or far too little are daily beset by lesser, fresher hells of their own making while i'm making popcorn. the gloriously entertaining trump and his progeny having to deal with wood and powell and their minions is enough to turn their homebrewed dumpster juice into the delicious elixir

sweeter than liberal tears. that's one way of putting it. angry. >> i love it. >> peggy noonan's latest for the "wall street journal" is entitled who will be 2020's margaret chase smith? history can sometimes help us through current moments by showing what's needed and providing inspiration. it is her declaration of conscious speech for which margaret chase smith is best remembered. it was 1950. and she was increasely disturbed by joe mccarthy's anticommunist crusade. she accused the democrats of showing laxness and complacency toward the threat of communism here at home and the republicans of allowing innocent people to be smeared. when history hands you a mccarthy, reckless, heedlessly manipulating the followers be a chase smith. if the mccarthy is saying the

whole national election was rigged an entire system corrupted, you'd recognize such baseless charges, damaged democracy itself. you wouldn't let election officials be smeared. you would likely pay some price but years later, you'd still be admired for who you were when it counted so much. >> ronald reagan's speechwriter and "wall street journal" editorial opinion page writer, peggy noonan. >> i don't understand the why it's hard right now. >> it's not. >> it's not. >> it's just not. they're cowards. >> it's not. you can hide behind a lot of things if you need to cower, republicans. you could hide behind science, it's not hard. >> they have been -- the votes have been certified now. so the votes have been counted. >> you could also hide behind that. >> the votes have been counted as mitch mcconnell said. they have been challenged in court.

joe biden's won every one of those challenges. "the wall street journal" editorial page and national review editorial page have said the charges are baseless that donald trump is bringing forward and now the elections have been certified. there is no excuse. you have no excuse anymore, republicans. none whatsoever. other than you don't care about democracy enough to defend against a tyrant who is trying to undermine the votes of over 81 million americans. jonathan lemire, so we have been talking too much the first 20 minutes of this show about never land, a president and his followers who are living in a parallel universe. one that disappears on january the 20th, at least as has to do with this election. you actually are in the real

world of wilmington, delaware, where joe biden and his team, where they're getting ready to assume power and for joe biden to raise his right hand and take the oath of office 12:00 noon. what's happening in wilmington this week? >> wilmington has become sort of the unlikely center of the political universe here in the united states right now. joe, it's a sharp contrast from what we are seeing from president trump and his allies in washington and over the weekend in georgia. as you say, it was a disconnect from reality. the words from -- uttered from the stage from president trump at that rally where sure, he hit -- he read some scripted lines about the two republican senate candidates there, but largely that rally was about himself and falsehoods and conspiracy theories and flatout lies about who won the 2020 election. here in wilmington, where i'll be all week as part of the presidential -- president-elect

reporters pool is very different. it's a slow and steady assemblage of a team as joe biden prepares to take office in six weeks or so. the biden camp had announced a number of health picks, word broke last night there's a release out now this morning, and the public unveiling event will be -- it's tentatively scheduled for tomorrow. it includes california attorney general becerra to be the health secretary. he is a champion of defense of the affordable care act, a lawyer, signaling that the biden team is going to make the aca obamacare the center of its health plan going forward. the head of the cdc also announced and other members of the team officially naming what was leaked last week that dr. anthony fauci will be a chief adviser to president biden once he takes office. i think it can't be any clearer this contrast.

as the president of the united states, donald trump, has abandoned his post, has left derelict his duties battling this pandemic which is surging out of control across the nation, he barely mentioned it from the rally stage in georgia on saturday night. this is what joe biden's focus has been to this point. it's assembling a team to prepare the nation for what's to come. and that includes three -- potentially three or four terrible months ahead of us. the pandemic will be raging when joe biden takes office and then distributing the vaccine. the light at the end of the tunnel. even if that is still months away. biden made clear there's no more important job that he has than that. >> and mika, you look at the number on our screen. we are racing toward 300,000 dead in america. this is of course a pandemic that donald trump dismissed as one person coming in from china that would be gone soon in january. even when his people were warning him it was going to be the greatest challenge of his

presidency. a month later he was saying in michigan that it was 15 people coming in and they were -- and soon it was going to be down to zero. in march he said it would be gone in april. in april and may he said it wouldn't come back in the fall. he was patting himself on the back for saying that it would only be 40,000, 50,000, 60,000 dead. here we are racing toward 300,000 dead. donald trump is trying to subvert a democratic american election and not even focusing on the worst part of the coronavirus where more and more people are dying. >> yeah. a little bit later we'll be talking to zeke emanuel about president-elect biden's picks for hhs and coronavirus relief and how things could change dramatically as soon as he assumes office. let's bring in staff writer for the new yorker, steve call. donald trump, george wallace and the influence of losers, and he

writes in part, quote, over the next four years, the post trump republican party will seek to consolidate the voters in its electoral campaigns even if his influence is diminished. some will try it trump's way. the most worrying part of trump's legacy is his no longer ambiguous disdain for elections and the constitution. out of the instinct for self-preservation and attraction to authoritarianism and a wounded ego, trump has launched an absurdly inept but still frightening attempt to overturn the 2020 results by sheer force of will and i would only say, joe and steve, that i think it's beyond an attraction to authoritarianism. i think he's there. he doesn't understand democracy and he doesn't give a damn about it. he doesn't understand what's

precious and beautiful and worth saving about it. >> well, he never has. he said that article 2 of the constitution is giving him supreme power to do what he wants to do for as long as he's wanted to do it. he's questioned the federal judiciary -- >> look at the people showing. >> the federal judiciary has shown him in short course over the past four years actually who does still have power. but yeah, the influence that steve is talking about is not just now but what happens in the future and steve, as i was reading your article, you're exactly right. it's not what's happening now. it's what impact he'll have for eight years from now. i was thinking about ross perot and how pat buchanan's election in '92 impacted ross perot in '94 and impacted the republican party moving forward every bit as much as mainstream republicanism did. >> yeah. i was listening to your conversation earlier and in

addition to being ecstatic that you were reading and promoting joan didion which is always the solution to a complicated crisis like we're in, i was thinking about how what's different because, you know, i think tracing all the quay back to the 1960s was helpful and i was struck by the george wallace unsuccessful campaign in 1968 and the influence on the southern strategy afterwards and you're right to mention perot and the rise of populism in the 1990s. obviously it's 50 years on from the '60s, it's different country, i wonder if the role of disinformation and the way our media distributes it through social media platforms and just the saturated media culture that we're in doesn't create a different kind of danger than the one joan didion observed in

san francisco in '67 and '68. this is the part i can't really get my head around. what is the half life of these lies, this propaganda machine. you know, it is a structure. we have a research center at columbia that looks at disinformation and hundreds and hundreds of local news sites have been created by political groups. masquerading as your local news site and pouring out the messaging you have heard from the president in georgia over the weekend. we have to be aware there are some things that are disturbing continuous in politics but there are new features of our public square that i don't feel like myself i have a grip on. >> let me ask steve this question. based on that, unlike what happened to wallace who clearly tapped in to some feelings that were there, but ran its course,

doesn't the fact that we now have these different social media and other media outlets make it possible that these can become a permanent presence that does not easily disappear from the body politic. because they are addressing something people really feel but they can continually exploit that? >> yeah. i think that's exactly the question. because i mean, you can get a little abstract about it, but in the aftermath of wallace's dying gasp jim crow campaign, the media moved on. the media were three networks and major newspapers and they saw his campaign as a sort of a dying ember that was no longer relevant. and his voters didn't go away. that we understand clearly now. and obviously again the country has changed a lot in 50 years and it's not a straight line. but these sources of resentment that could be mobilized into

demagogic politics have stayed with us. i think that's -- you're asking the question, how long will this persist because there are no restraints on speech as our constitution provides, but because also we're so connected and there's so much bottom up sharing of disinformation and it's so easy to manufacture propaganda and distribute it, almost without being detected. you know, will this provide a residual source of toxicity in our politics? definitely. i was struck by joe biden's comments in an interview with thomas frieden, he was asked how bad will it be? look, millions of trump voters is a lot of people but i only think the ugliness will stick around for 20%, 25%. well, that's a lot and that's enough for authoritarian campaigns to mobilize as you can see in, you know, the history of europe and many other places. >> well, to steve's point, kasie

hunt, i know you have a question for steve, but to steve's point, back in the 1960s, disinformation was passed around by cheap paper backs like none dare call it treason. paranoid style of american politics, it was passed around that way in '64. when i was running for office, there would be emails passed from one aol account to another aol account and that's how disinformation was spread, but it was spread at such a slow clip. now of course with facebook, you can spread your lies across the country, across the world or even target one part of a state to spread that disinformation and it is easy to undermine the truth and to undermine democratic forces and there are pro democracy leaders across the

world who have been chased out of countries because of what state governments have done on facebook. >> and in the past, joe, to your point, it's been easier to identify and see that something was misinformation. it was either harder to get your hands on it in the first place or the aol emails looked ridiculous, riddled with typos and different fonts but on facebook it's hard to tell the difference between something that comes from a reputable paper or full of disinformation, even if you're trying your best to be the sophisticated consumer to figure out what's true or what's not. it's so easy to make it look professional. steve, i guess that's my question for you. you write about, we had three big networks, we had a handful of prominent news weeklies, papers, that covered the country

and a lot of local journalism. so the media quote/unquote as people like to think of it was in fact a relatively focused narrow group that if they made decisions together could actually impact things. now with this fragmented landscape of these major companies, their decision making is obviously part of this and we know they can't shut everything down by themselves because other websites pop up. there's some truth to the fact that they are mass platforms. everyone is on facebook or many adults are on facebook so they have a bigger responsibility than some of the other, you know, reddit, forchan. what do the companies need to do to help solve some of this? >> yeah. no, it's another great question. just to, you know, pick up your point the homogeneity of the

media in the '60s and '70s wasn't always a good thing and it has been disrupted and facebook is one of the big disrupters. i read facebook, the inside story, which is a well reported inside report of facebook and i came away the conclusion that the problems that we face -- i mean, this is a private corporation that is motivated as all companies are to make money. that is acting as a kind of public square and to expect that it is going to adjust its motivations to preserve democracy or to do the right thing all of the time it's just naive. it's not what it was built to do and the history of facebook is one of continually breaking things and then trying to fix them partially and getting better and better at apologizing. but i came away from it thinking, you know, it's a structure. it is not something that can be changed except by changing the

structure of it. yes, facebook has moved somewhat. they had a better election in 2020 than they did in 2016. they learned to put some brakes on it here and there, but you can't get away from the fact that their mission is to connect everybody in the world. that's what motivates mark zuckerberg and it has -- it's his passion and he profoundly believes in free speech. those of us in journalism have to come to terms with the fact that free speech, a principle that we hold sacred is being weaponized against the principles of journalism and what do we do about that? as reporters we kind of march into this war with our facts nobly shouldered as if they were going to win the day and what we're seeing is because of the scale of this alternate reality that you have been talking about, our facts, our scientific method is it?

so what do we do? >> all right, steve, thank you so much. we'll be reading the new piece for the new yorker. we appreciate your coming on this morning. let's get to the other stories making headlines this morning. the first batches of the pfizer/biontech coronavirus vaccine have arrived in the uk. the country has ordered 40 million doses, enough to vaccinate 20 million people out of a population of 67 million. elderly people and their caregivers have been placed at the top of the priority list. the first doses are set to be administered tomorrow. a federal judge in new york has ordered the department of homeland security to reinstate daca that allowed the children of undocumented immigrants to work and study in the country. president trump tried to end the program in 2017. and again, last summer when acting dhs secretary chad wolf suspended the program, but the

federal ruling orders dhs to prominently post a notice by today to accept new applicants to the program. the ruling also orders d hs to ensure that work permits are valid for two years. and pentagon officials confirmed friday that president trump has ordered the withdrawal of most u.s. troops in somalia. they were stationed in the east african nation to counter the threats from the extremists. they may be re-assigned to neighboring countries. the withdrawal comes weeks after acting defense secretary chris miller announced the u.s. is reducing troops in afghanistan and iraq to 2,500 by mid january. and still ahead on "morning joe," the latest coronavirus warning from former fda commissioner scott gottlieb. as we mentioned former obama

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it could even beat your insurance copay. just visit rxsaver.com, type in your meds, select your pharmacy and show the coupon when you pay. now you're an rxsaver! remember: you haven't saved...until you're an rxsaver! i think we have a worsening situation around the country. we're not likely to see a peak in the number of infections until the end of december maybe into january and see a peak and a number of deaths and hospitalizations in the middle part of january. things will get a lot worse. i think by the end of the year we'll probably be at 300,000 deaths and by the end of january we could be pushing 400,000 deaths. we'll see consistently probably 2,000 deaths a day. as we get into january towards the peak, we'll see over 300 --

3,000 deaths a day. so this is going to get a lot worse before it starts to resolve. right now the statistic is about 1.7% of diagnosed cases will succumb to the disease. and there's a grim future ahead of ourselves for the next six to eight weeks. people need to protect themselves. >> let's take those words from dr. scott gottlieb and with that warning over the weekend and take a look at saturday with the president's superspreader event, and again, dr. gottlieb says this will get even worse than 284,000 people dead by the end of december and january. and it's going to get much worse before it gets better. this is what -- this is his life's work. and this is science talking.

and this president is promulgating lies and bringing crowds together, knowing that that will make them sick and perhaps spread the coronavirus and even die. or spread it to others who will die. it's -- if you want to, you know, stop being shocked and think this is over, you can try, you can try to turn your head away from this. but republicans, you're going to live with this to the end of your lives that you let america down and you let more people die and you let this president go on a killing spree, superspreaders across the country so he could try to make this country something other than a democracy. and with that all facing the biden administration, the president-elect has picked his health team for when he takes over the country and becomes an american president of a democracy. california attorney general and

former congressman javier becerra will be the choice to lead health and human services. he would be the first latino to run the department as it battles the surging coronavirus pandemic being made worse by this president. biden has selected dr. vivek murphy as the u.s. surgeon general, reprising the role he served under the obama administration in an expanded version. and row sell walensky to run the centers for disease control and prevention. an incredible team with at love experience. joining us now, former white house adviser, from global initiatives at the university of pennsylvania, dr. zeke emanuel. he was named by president-elect joe biden to the coronavirus task force. so zeke, talk if you could about

the job that will be on all of your plates when president-elect biden takes over, especially since this current president seems to be driving the coronavirus numbers just into the ground. he's pushing them up and up and up. >> so there are three major challenges you have outlined one with the quotes from scott gottlieb. the increasing numbers of people infected with covid. the increasing number of deaths going scarily high to 2,000 to 3,000 and the increasing number of hospitalizations, putting big strains on the health care system. that's problem one. problem two is you have to get the vaccines out to various health care facilities and then administered to people in their shoulders by the end of january when the president biden takes over. we will probably have gotten through the health care workers and the people in long-term care

facilities but then there's the rest. the next group of people. the essential workers that need to be vaccinated. teachers and grocery store workers and food service workers. then there has to be elderly people who are going to be -- need to be vaccinated because they're at high risk of death and then there's people with comorbidities, asthma, obesity, heart disease, that are always at very increased risk of death. managing that is going to be a huge challenge and then the third enormous challenge is for all the other people who are suffering because of the raging coronavirus, suffering because all the supports that were put in place from the c.a.r.e.s. act will have lapsed on january 1st and you will be seeing a lot of economic suffering and so far we don't seem to have gotten to an

agreement to help the economy. those three are enormous challenges and they all collide on roughly january 20th. so i can tell you that there's many people -- many people working and the task force is working to try to address each one of those. >> jonathan lemire, you can take the next question. >> dr. emanuel, many have certainly given the trump administration at least some credit for operation warp speed in picking up the accelerating the development of the vaccines and the distribution, but there's a growing criticism, there's been a lot of communication with the states to make sure that the doses that these states receive, the adequate doses in a timely fashion for that rollout you just mentioned. there's seemingly a sense that the trump administration has cared about this first wave of the vaccine distribution but doesn't have much of a plan for beyond that. so what are you seeing here? how potentially damaging is this lack of foresight from the trump administration for what the biden team will inherit? what challenges will they face for getting the vaccines to people not just at the end of

the year but january and february and march? >> you're right. they have been focused on developing the vaccine, yes, they need to be commended on that. we have two vaccines that look like they'll be approved shortly, the moderna vaccine and the pfizer vaccine. we also have soon to be reported probably the johnson & johnson vaccine and others coming along the line. the vaccine, they have promoted and done pretty well, but it's everything else. just having a vaccine in a syringe does no one any good unless it gets to people and gets in their shoulders and remember these vaccines you need two doses not just one which complicates the whole process. the distribution and administration is something they have fallen down on. so far, it's been a problem to understand and as you point out, given the amount of vaccine that they have, they're sending it to states and then states have to

prioritize it and only just recently where they suggested by the cdc that they go to front line health cares and there's no advice on who should be prioritized. how states should do it. as a matter of fact yesterday, i got a call from the health commissioner in a state -- a person who runs the department of health in the state asking about well, within the top group of health care workers and long-term care facility people, how do we prioritize because the first batch isn't going to cover enough of them in our state and we have to prioritize within that group and there's been no advice from the trump administration on that. this is going to be a major challenge and it's something we have been debating and talking about and trying to come to some understanding about how to do that and how to work with the states. that logistical issue, how do you distribute something that has to be at nearly minus 100 degrees, how do you get it out to the people, is nontrivial and

it's something that the trump administration has not really focused on. >> dr. emanuel, in light of those challenges, you know in the next few days, civil rights leaders including myself will be meeting with president-elect biden. has there been any discussion among your group that is advising the president-elect, appointed by him, about the fact that there is a large percentage of people particularly in the african-american community and other communities that don't trust vaccines and how we relax some of the fears of using the vaccine itself and then how we make sure that those that have been disproportionately impacted by covid-19 have access to the vaccine once they're convinced that it's healthy. has there been any discussion on how to deal with both of those matters? >> reverend, i'm laughing only

because there's a discussion every day, every hour on that subject. it is a major concern of ours. as you point out, minority communities and low-income communities have been particularly hard hit in this country by covid. the number of cases, the number of young people dying, it's been terrible and tragic. we're well aware of that and we have plans to address that. simultaneously they're the people what can benefit most from the vaccine and there's a lot of skepticism and for good reason about federal programs and federal vaccine programs. and they need to be communicated with, we need to talk to the leaders of the communities and it's something we're preoccupied with every single day we address that day. every time we go over some major topic and again it's not just vaccines. it's also the therapeutics, the

monoclonals we have, the dexamethasone, the hospital beds. we talk about how to make sure it's equitably distributed that everyone whether you're a minority, low income, or older person or person with comorbidities, it's not just reserved for people who are white and rich and that is very, very important and it's fundamental. i can't tell you every conversation about some issue has, well, is it going to be fairly distributed? are we going to remove the disparities in care that we have been seeing and the disparities in mortality that have been present with the covid case. so you can rest assured this is a very high priority for this incoming administration. >> dr. zeke emanuel, thank you very much and it's good to know you're on the coronavirus task force. his latest book asks the

question country which has the world's best health care? thank you. let's turn back to the weekend's events in georgia. there were many. joining us now political reporter to the "atlanta journal constitution" greg bluestein. with us, from the house oversight and government reform committee, kurt bardella. a senior adviser to the lincoln project. we haven't gotten to the senate debate over the weekend in georgia. i saw it rolling along on twitter. it had a lot of color, a lot of flash, a lot of interest. tell us what happened. >> yeah. well, basically, the two candidates tried their best not to make any gaffes, tried to stay on message. and they ducked questions especially -- well, reverend warnock ducked a question about whether or not he'd expand the supreme court and senator loeffler about whether or not

she supported the false narrative of a rigged election. and whether or not she acknowledged joe biden's victory in georgia. so i think those were the two or three main takeaways of that debate. >> yeah. kurt, i'm curious also, president trump just, you know, letting his opinion be known to georgia election officials and the governor, making phone calls trying to get things changed. is there any -- is there any way to provide some sort of oversight or accountability? is this legal? >> i think that's a fair question because what we have right now is the sitting president of the united states trying to entice and induce effectively a coup d'etat in america and helping elected officials to overturn the will of the voters which is legally

questionable and morally rep rehenceable. we're moving forward as if the electoral college will ratify the election and trump will leave the presidency and joe biden will assume it. people can always ask how much longer can we expect this will happen, i think it will last until he leaves office. the fact that republicans remain silent, republicans are standing up for president trump, defending this savage act against democracy, the reason it's lasted so long is because the republicans lack the integrity to stand up for democratic values. >> kasie hunt, i'll let you take it, but someone asked if you have seen mike pence lately? had vice president pence been asked if he'll follow the american tradition and announce to congress on january 6, 2021,

that joe biden has been elected president? will those traditions be respected and i wonder every time one is not, what that means about exactly how difficult this transition may be. >> i mean, it is a very good question. we'll have to find out. i will say mike pence was there to swear in the new senator from arizona, democrat mark kelly, which of course by doing so acknowledged that the votes in arizona were certified, correct, trustworthy and he did in fact show up for that and he was on the senate floor. so mike pence is someone who historically has managed to both be right there in line rhetorically with trump but also still follow some of our traditions. i guess we'll find out. craig, let me ask you, i'm curious for loeffler and perdue, i mean, the coalition that would get them elected is this

populist trump base and some of the traditional republicans in atlanta. some of the independents voted for biden and he ultimately won the state of georgia, but there seemed to have been some that were willing to vote for republican senate candidates. are loeffler and perdue doing damage with those voters as they side with president trump in all of these questions about the integrity of the election? >> that's a big word for them. they can't afford to alienate the republican base and at the same time, they can't let reverend warnock and ossoff run away in the suburbs because that produced the narrow margin for biden to win. you saw senator loeffler dodge questions about whether or not, you know, she fully backs all of president trump's rhetoric because she does not want to alienate either side and she

can't afford to tick off president trump right now either. >> so tell me, kurt, how do you think the president's appearance there is going to impact that senate race? >> i think, joe, every time that donald trump talks about georgia, as we know, this is donald trump's way, he makes it all about himself and less about the people he's supposed to be supporting and stumping for. i think he's doing more harm than good. in an election you want to have your side motivated, your side ready to turn out. well, if you're the person that's questioning the integrity of the voting system, attacking the republican governor, attacking the republican secretary of state, creating a republican civil war, if you will, in georgia, well, that's not going to help your chances in terms of getting voters to turn out to vote. never do anything that excites your opposition and depresses your base. and we're seeing donald trump do

that right now in georgia. it's almost the perfect storm of ingredients. now, i think it's an uphill climate for democrats in the special election, but the ingredients are there right now because of donald trump making this election more competitive than it should be and if democrats do win on january 5th, it will be because donald trump self-sabotaged the republican party. >> thank you both for being on this morning. and if you missed the donald trump georgia rally, well, we'll boil it down for you. >> we did a great job. you know we won georgia, just so you understand. the swing states that we're all fighting over now, i won them all by a lot. i won them by a lot. and i have to say if i lost, i'd be a very gracious loser. but you can't ever accept when

they steal and rig and rob. you can't accept it. you've got to make sure they don't throw away any ballots. you've got to make sure that when they collect the ballots and they start bragging about how many ballots they already have, you've got to make sure your secretary of state knows what the hell he's doing and you have to make sure your governor gets tougher than he has been. when laura ingraham interviewed your governor, he said he was an offensive lineman i said that's strange, he doesn't look like an offensive lineman to me. we need someone with courage and to make decisions and we'll be going up to the supreme court very shortly. we are rounding the corner on the pandemic. vaccines are on their way and at a level that nobody ever thought possible. it would have taken another administration five years. it took us seven months and they're starting next week and we're going to start vaccinating

and a lot of people already are vaccinated. the stake in this election is control of the u.s. senate and that really means control of this country. the system will be fixed when these people get in. they'll get in and we'll fix this system. because we're all -- we're all victims. everybody here, all the thousands of people here tonight. they're all victims. every one of you. >> what a loser. >> they're victims. >> well -- >> of their cult leader. >> yeah. of course. of course, i could tell you how i won the 1997 master and i beat mark spitz -- >> that was really sick. >> he's a sick, sick man who thinks he can lie to these people and maybe intimidate one or two governors and try to sway the election. but, you know, i really -- i

don't think we should ever play that man and the spreading of the lies. i think that last clip though was worthy of being played where he talked about how he's a victim and we're all victims and this is -- this has been the republican party's strategy now for the past 25 years. they're victims. everybody's -- these rich, spoiled, white billionaires are victims. rich, spoiled, white multimillionaires are victims. they're all victims of people that fly around in private jets are victims. the people that belong to exclusive country clubs are victims. the people like donald trump who were born rich, screwed up, will die rich anyway because they have a safety net of daddy's money, they have trust funds. they're all victims.

how sad and how pathetic and how grotesque that they have convinced themselves -- they do i hear it every day. i hear it every day. rich lawyers, rich doctors. rich professionals. rich guys all talking about what victims they are, hollywood's victim mizing me. hold on a second. i'm going to go out and buy, you know, another like $80,000, $100,000 car, you know? oh, i'm a victim. all they do is they talk about being victims and again, you remember last hour i read joan didion to talk about how conservatives looked at haight-ashbury and thought the country was coming unglued the years 1966 to '68, well, look at ken burns' documentary on

vietnam. there was a great disorder in this land and now we fast forward and look what at what's happening in valdosta and wherever donald trump goes. >> it was a superspreader event. >> you have an alternate reality there. you have all of these people, all of the overwhelming majority of white people and the leaders. all these -- i swear to god, it's unbelievable. all of these whining republican leaders that went to ivy league schools, i won't name their names because they're not worth it. i don't want to actually give them actually the benefit of having their names repeated on our show. but all of these rich white guys that went to harvard law school and went to yale and like donald trump went to penn. >> sort of. >> and just all of them went to

the military academies. all whining about their victimhood. what wusses. how unmanly. how weak. how pathetic to constantly talk about your victimhood status. it's all you've done for a quarter of a century. and again, the great irony that's what you use to accuse democrats of doing. that's what you used to accuse your opponents of doing, of playing the politics of victimhood and now it is you. it is just as sad and weak and pathetic as when you're doing it and when your political opponents who went to harvard and yale an princeton and had trust fund accounts from their rich daddies. it was just as pathetic then as it is now but it's you who are doing it now and you're trying to use your fake victimhood to

steal an american election and undermine american democracy. it is in a word sick. >> yeah. and they could have used that platform of those thousands of people this president to talk about what they could be doing. could have had everyone wearing masks and had everyone going home and actually socially distance and work on mitigating this virus. he's not doing his job. he's using these people, not caring if he's causing a mass death in order to try and overturn an election he lost. with us we have political reporter for "the washington post" and msnbc political analyst robert costa. he's the moderator of "washington week on pbs." chief national correspondent for "the new york times" mark leibovich is with us. editor at large for the nonprofit newsroom the 19th and msnbc contributor, errin haines. and from "the financial times,"

ed luce joins us. donny deutsch is with us and reverend al sharpton is with us as well. >> so bob costa, the votes have been counted as mitch mcconnell said they needed to be after the election. the courts have been heard and they have ruled against donald trump consistently, repeatedly. and the votes have been certified in over 270 electoral vote states. so what are republicans waiting for? what is mitch mcconnell waiting for? when are they going to stop this conspiracy of silence that allows donald trump to continue to lie to all of his supporters? >> joe, they're waiting for january 20th, because at this point, in their view, donald trump is in control of the republican party. president trump will remain in control of the party. not only formally until then, but perhaps after in terms of

the political spirit of the party and they envision him going to florida in january, in february, continuing to hold rallies and maybe look toward running in 2024. so he's not someone who's going to disappear in their eyes. he's still going to be a political threat on their shoulder. and so they're navigating here with delicacy to the chagrin of many in president-elect biden's camp. >> and also to the chagrin to those who love america and love american democracy. >> and respect it. >> but for too many republicans, donald trump is is harry potter, do not speak his name. >> this is a variation on the four-year strategy of many elected republicans.

what's become particularly bizarre about what's happened lately is just the sheer you know number and very few number of people who are willing to say the words president-elect biden. you had secretary azar on -- i think it was chris wallace yesterday. he just continued to refer to joe biden as vice president, vice president and chris wallace kept correcting him, saying he's the president-elect. it's a bizarre thing and it's related somewhat to what kelly loeffler said, you can't say that donald trump lost. december 14th, the electoral college meets that's when it becomes meet and then the next one is january 3rd when the georgia runoff happens and at that point there will be no more voting to do. so, you know, maybe you'll see some more separation after that. and before the inauguration. as robert said, the inauguration will be i guess the moment where we sort of go into the next

phase of this but no way this period is ending. >> ed luce, i thought we were going to be past asking the question of what are our allies, our closest friends across the globe were saying after the election, after joe biden received more votes than any other presidential candidate in u.s. history. but here we are, more than a month past and tens of millions of americans are trying to have the democratic election overthrown because the president of the united states is calling for the discarding of free and fair election, much in the same way that vladimir putin or in the past saddam hussein would if the voting didn't go his way. >> yeah. although i wouldn't underestimate how much of a mess some of america's allies are in. you know, my own country is

doing its last-minute brexit exit deal negotiations and it looks like it will probably screw them up and it's worth bearing in mind that 2016 decision in britain which came a few months before trump is elected there's no do over for brexit. america has had a do over for trump and he has lost and i think america's allies, you know, in the sort of lower bar world that we live in are taking that as a win and recognize that on january the 20th, biden will be sworn in. but also in the full knowledge that this is not going to be a presidency with a honeymoon. this isn't 20th century america, except in one respect. we're all studying up, you know, the mccarthyite era and the red scare, the paranoid style in american politics. the periods in your history -- and other countries suffer from this too, but the periods in

your history where conspiracy theories produce a kind of grass roots politics that views anybody who works for the federal government as somehow traitorous and in the '50s they were communists and today they might be part of some cabal that is un-american. but there is that understanding biden will be beginning without a honeymoon. this is going to be a profoundly difficult challenge for him to govern. >> yeah. errin, we are both georgia native. the difference is i'm a white male georgia native and you are a black female georgia native. and even i as a 6'4" white male

georgia native born a conservative baptist in the suburbs of atlanta, georgia, in the middle of the american century, even i thought it was so pathetic for the president of the united states, this billionaire that inherited $400 million from his daddy and went to the ivy league school, time victim, all of you people out there are all victims. isn't it extraordinary that donald trump has convinced his conservative voters in georgia that everybody is a victim of this conspiracy when in fact they spent most of their life, donald trump especially, with advantages that none of us have. >> well, look, joe, yes, we are definitely both georgians and also both students of history as you're proving with your latest

book. but listen, you know, donald trump saying that he is a victim and continuing to declare that he has won georgia, you know, neither of those statements are true. and to be sure, voter suppression has definitely been alive and well in georgia and it was alive and well this cycle whether we're talking about the closing of precincts or whether we're talking about, you know, trying to shorten the early voting window or purging voters who may have been eligible. but donald trump and his supporters were certainly not the face of voter suppression, voter depression or voter intimidation this cycle and it really is just unfortunate that the election in georgia is being framed in those terms just because, you know, our home state turned blue this cycle. the reality remains that president-elect joe biden won georgia by 12,000 votes and that the results of that election have been counted at least three times by this point.

so for, you know, president trump to go down to valdosta this weekend and basically make an argument that says, look, the election was rigged, it didn't work out for me, but you should vote for loeffler and perdue because maybe this rigged system can work out for them, does feel a bit disingenuous and is causing raised eyebrows among republican voters wondering why this it's worth it for them to show up one more time on january 5th. but listen, you know, this -- it's monday, today is the last day of voter registration in georgia for this runoff. early voting is about to begin next week and you know democrats, particularly black voters are being galvanized and energized and mobilized to show up. more than a million mail-in ballots have been requested for this election. so, you know, voter suppression does have -- it can have the effect of suppressing votes but

it also can have the effect of galvanizing folks so we have to see, you know, for whom that tactic works on both sides. >> you see how the victimization of people who aren't victims works for donald trump. >> yeah. and donny deutsch, i wonder how republicans will look at them. it won't be kind. they will be branded as the biggest failures in history in leadership that history has seen. moody and depressed is how advisers are describing donald trump as he grapples with the reality he has 44 days left as president. "the new york times" peter baker is out with an in depth look at how donald trump is barely showing up for work, ignoring the coronavirus, even more than before. and has all but fixated on those he believes who have wronged him. he writes the final days of the trump presidency have taken on the stormy elements of a drama more common to history or

literature than a modern white house. his rage and detached from reality refusal to concede defeat evoke images of a besieged overlord in some distant land defiantly clinging to power rather than going into exile or an erratic english monarch imposing his version of reality on his cowed court. but baker warns that these last few weeks may be a preview of what's to come as trump tries to undermine joe biden's victory and do his best to shape the national conversation from mar-a-lago. i mean, the clock is ticking on not just donald trump's presidency, but on republicans and their opportunity to be on the right side of history, donny. >> yeah. the republican party is the cowardice party. sadly, i was watching tv as i often do by myself, not much to do on saturday night. i was watching the trump rally

and what i was struck by was the crowd. and we have seen that crowd before. i said to myself, what -- why? what is the passion in these people? are they there they because they're so against the affordable care act? are they there because they're supportive of the trump uae pact? or the tax plan that helped none of them in the audience or are they there because of 2040. in 2040, white will be the minority of the country and that's what this is all about. there is nothing else going on there but we want to keep our country white. that is the passion. that is what has to be dealt with over the next 20 years, not trump. trump is a reflector about that. it's about the mexican, about the muslim, the african-american. that is so terrifying to a swath of this country when you look at their faces there, that is why they are there. that is what biden has to

wrestle with. not donald trump, but the fear of tens of millions of people in this country that it is no longer going to be white and what does that mean for me? so it is about race. it is about racism. it is about fear. it is no other issue. that's that that crowd there. and that's what you have to understand the power that donald trump has and the power that he holds and that is what the republicans are afraid to step away from. >> bob costa, what are you going to be looking at this week? we're starting a new week and with quite a few unsettling events this past weekend. what are you looking at this week? what are you going to be reporting on? >> one person to pay attention to is majority leader mitch mcconnell. you saw in president-elect biden's news conference on friday, he was pretty coy when he was asked about whether he had a phone conversation with mcconnell. that's the new power nexus in washington along of course with

speaker pelosi. but biden and mcconnell have a long track record of doing budget negotiations together. mcconnell is now re-engaged on the stimulus in a new way in recent days. can they get something done in the lame duck? and can biden work with mcconnell for another round of stimulus in early 2021? as much as president trump's out there this week, he's having his rallies, georgia's ongoing, it's mcconnell and biden the new washington that's at the top of my notebook. >> what's at the top of your notebook, mark leibovich? what are you looking at this week? >> well, i think we're going to continue to look at georgia, you know? there's still a lot going on. at this point you kind of have -- everyone is kind of holding their breath and you should have this parallel universe of donald trump's last days, whatever it is he's going to do, and hopefully it doesn't get too dramatic. then obviously the sort of front and center issue in washington is the stimulus talks and it does look like there's some

momentum here to actually get this done. so in some ways this is a reflection of what we have seen for four years. you have a parallel universe of a government trying to work in this case you have a new government that's trying to come in, you know, certainly not contain but definitely a reality show that people are trying to put off to the side and hope it doesn't have too much fallout for the real world. >> thank you for being with us. and bob costa, thank you for being with us and thank you for letting me be on pbs week on friday night. it was very kind of you. i even -- i even -- i'll cheer for notre dame next week because of it. >> i hope we get to meet up with alabama in the title game, joe. >> oh. here we go. >> let us know. it will be exciting. thank you, bob. ed luce, if you asked most americans what they were thinking right now as it entertained to britain, they would tell you season four of

"the crown." and all the controversies that have gone along with that. i must ask you, first, before i get to the important brexit question. i must ask you first what you think of the portrayal of a woman that your father knew very well, margaret thatcher. how did she fare in season four of "the crown?" have you seen it yet? >> i have seen it. my father's not seen "the crown" since about episode two of season one, because he thought it was all just made up, which it kind of. i watched it because i think it's really brilliantly done drama. it's claimed to be documentary drama which is a little bit tenuous. you will notice in season one the queen is great -- great almost natural, sort of genius in how she deals with prime

ministers like churchill. that suited the narrative and in season four, she's the baddy because it's the diana season. it's gone from the queen being an uncanningly nice person to a nasty one and i think thatcher was portrayed gently in season four. i'm not going to be able to force my father to watch it though. >> yeah. i thought the scenes too -- we don't want to do -- >> don't give it away. >> i will say the scenes where the queen is repeatedly lecturing margaret thatcher on policy is just complete fiction. that is something the queen rarely if ever does. isn't it? >> she -- her job, her very survival depends on her not

having views or butting antlers with somebody like thatcher. it is true they had a falling out over apartheid and there was a breach there with the countries all -- 48 out of 49 of them wanting sanctions on south africa's apartheid regime. the one holdout being britain under margaret thatcher and the queen didn't like that. i think there's some truth to that, but most of the stuff i saw was just made up in the traditions of the best drama. they just made stuff up. >> as you said, made up, extraordinarily well. entertaining. now, let's talk about what's actually really going on in britain right now. and that is great britain stumbling toward brexit. how is this going to end? >> not well, i don't think.

it's boiled down to some very on truce issues of britain's fishing territory. britain only has 7,000 people employed full-time as fishermen, generally men. and it generates about a billion pounds a year. it's peanuts compared to the loss to the british economy that will occur if it drops out without a trade deal which is looking quite likely now. boris johnson's got a conservative party behind him that's insisting that hard brexit is what he was elected to do. the only thing tempering him other than self-preservation, the damage to britain's economy would be big is the incoming biden administration which takes a far less rosy view of brexit than the trump administration. so that's a good external --

boris johnson wants biden to be a friend. biden can make his life difficult. he can make his life easy. so that's the only sort of silver lining to this kamikaze situation and we talk about the paranoid style in american politics. this brexit enterprise is based on the paranoid idea that brussels is a dictatorship and britain is a colony. it is a complete fiction. it actually makes the crown look like sort of a hard documentary reporting. but that's -- that sort of impulse with what i call a kamikaze impulse is something that the biden-elect -- president-elect biden is going to help temper and has done so already on the threat to blow up the good friday agreement in northern ireland that's now pretty much off the table.

>> all right. ed luce, thank you very much. reverend, thank you for being on this morning. the national action network 11thth annual triumph awards. >> we have the triumph awards to salute those that have shown triumph despite adversity and because of the pandemic we can't do it in person like we do it annually so tonight on national action network.net we will be honoring and they will be on mogul tyler perry, also the actress angela bassett. the activists who will -- who comes on this show, brittany cunningham. reverend jakes and those who helped us get through the quarantine to show that even that in the pandemic and in the year like this that there's some who showed us how to be going for triumphs and making and

breaking it through. george floyd's brother will be on to make a presentation. 7:00 p.m. tonight. >> amazing. thank you, reverend al. up next, a "morning joe" exclusive. the israeli and uae ambassadors to the united states will be our guests to discuss the status of the recent peace agreement between their countries. plus, we'll talk to democratic congressman cedric richmond who is set to be a senior adviser to the biden white house. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. e. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪ experience the power of sanctuary at the lincoln wish list sales event.

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♪ welcome back. we want to turn overseas now and how the transition of power in washington impacts america's foreign policy. president-elect biden will inherit donald trump's efforts that helped normalize israel's

relations with arab nation. his new administration, however, will also be looking at other thorny issues including a possible return to the iran nuclear treaty. joining us now, united arab emirates ambassador to the united states, yousef al otaiba and ron dermer. thank you. >> let me start with you, mr. ambassador, let me start with you. we haven't had a chance to talk since august. the historic -- yeah. the abraham accords passed in august making the uae only the third arab nation behind egypt and jordan to give israel's right to exist. >> it is hugely important. it's the first time in over a quarter of a century the last

time we had a peace agreement with the arab agreement it was jordan with 1994 so we had to wait over 25 years for the third one and we had to wait only 29 days from the third one to the fourth one when bahrain followed the lead and made this peace with us. i think it's transforming the region. it is moving even much faster than we anticipated. we were bullish with the prospects of peace with the united arab emirates and i'm sure yousef was also. >> i notice that dennis ross has expressed support for the f-35 deal that's already been approved by the administration, but a few people in congress are expressing their concerns about that. but it seems that right now, for the state of israel, one of the positives of having the uae as your ally is you have somebody else to push back against iran's designs on the region.

>> that's absolutely true. you know, one of the most important commitments that we have, joe, you will remember this from your time in congress, is the commitment the united states has to maintain israel's qualitative military edge and the way we turn that commitment from a principle into practice is we have our security officials sit down was security officials any time there's an arms package being proposed. we did that in september and october when the emirates asked for certain weapons system. we went through that process with the united states and we strongly believe that this agreement, this arms package, will not violate america's commitment or undermine the commitment to maintain israel's qualitative military edge that's why both the prime minister, and defense minister benny gantz, they both issued a joint statement that doesn't happen often, but on this deal they did issue that joint statement. what keeps me up at night, joe, is actually not the proposed

f-35 sale to the emirates. we keeps me up at night is the idea that somebody would return to the nuclear deal with iran. and because iran is a regime that vows to destroy israel, it is committed and actively works to destroy israel and seeks to destabilize all of our arab neighbors which is why israel and the arab states in the region we don't support returning back to the jcpoa and we hope that the administration will talk to us when they come in, speak to your allies in the region and then we'll try to work out a new arrangement that will actually prevent iran from ever developing nuclear weapons and will push back against the regional aggression. >> we'll get to that more in just a little bit. but one more question for you and then i want to turn this over to yousef and ask him a few questions. so it sounds like -- doesn't sound like, but you said that benjamin netanyahu and other

israeli leaders, even his chief rival right now, as well as you, feel like israel will be more secure if this weapons sale does go through to the uae, is that correct? >> we believe that the uae is an ally in confronting iran and we do not believe that this arms package will violate the u.s. commitment to maintain israel's qualitative military edge which is one of the most sacrosaint one that the united states makes to israel. >> yousef, let's talk about how you all got to where you are right now, to be the third arab country to recognize israel. of course, the first being camp david accords in '79. but yeah, we had to wait again until '94 and then waited again until 2020. so it was quite a step for the uae. why did you all make that step?

>> i think for two reasons, joe. one, the region is changing. the attitudes are changing, mindsets are changing. people are tired of conflict. people are tired of ideology. they want the same things people here want. they want jobs, they want opportunities, they want hope. and in the uae, there was very broad public support for this. there was a poll done in the uae recently after the announcement for young edge aties between 18 and 24 and asked do you support the abraham accords and the response was 89% supported the abraham accord. so we're moving in a different direction with different mindsets and we took advantage of that. >> talk about that -- i'm sorry. i was going to ask you about the economic advantages of this. because that's something that we saw almost immediately. the economic advantages not only for the uae, but israel as well.

talk about that synchronicity and what that is going to mean not only for your two countries, but for the region. >> i think that's what is really driving this. there's a lot of excitement. there's a lot of enthusiasm and it's overwhelming the number of interests -- the interest from a number of coming into the uae and et cetera. the reason this happened now, 26 years after the jordanian peace deal is there was the debate about annexation that was going to i think risk the progress we were making with israel. we have seen more overt cooperation with israel. you know, two years ago, you know, we'd have to meet quietly and when we did meet at a dinner it would break news. here we are on tv doing a joint appearance and it's normal. so we took advantage of the situation, and we created a win-win deal ultimately for us, for israel and for the united states. those are the reasons that we are here today in a very open,

very public and a very mutually beneficial peace deal with israel. and i cannot keep up with the number of deals and mous and investment initiatives. i said last night, dubai hosted the second orthodox jewish wedding in dubai and people are excited. they're not holding on to the old ideologies about what we should or shouldn't do with each other. we are showing the world we can have a relationship with israel. we can trade and invest, research. we can have joint film festivals and still have political conversations that we often disagree, but where we also agree. so i think this is the model for the future. and what validated that for us was that bahrain came shortly after us, sudan came after them. i think that's still talks with other countries considering doing the same thing. >> yousef, you and i have been talking for almost a decade now about the great possibilities of these sort of things happening because most arab nations for

some time now have considered iran to be a greater threat to their safety than israel. is that one of the reasons why the f-35 weapons package that iran said israel believes is in everybody's best interests in that region, is that the main reason those f-35s are so important for your country? >> the f-35s are important for our country because we have been a traditional american partner for the last 30 years. i have said this so many times that i assume everyone knows it, but i'll say it one more time. we are the only arab country that has fought in six coalitions with the since 1990. there's not a place that we have not participated, from kosovo and somalia and libya and isis. the f-35 is just hardware, but

that's not the important part. we're now flying f-16s. we are going to be flying f-35s because it's the natural evolution and modernization of our air force. but joe, i don't know if you remember, but about six years ago i came on your show. i think it was september of 2014. it was right around when we started the counter isis campaign and i came on your show and the uae had just launched an air strike against isis targets. what broke news on your show that day was that a uae squadron of american-built f-16 planes took off from abu dhabi, refueled in midair, hit the targets and returned safely to base. the most exciting part about that attack is it was led by the woman fighter pilot that's how we defend ourselves and to fight with you. that's exactly how we're going to be using the f-35s. nothing has changed. it's not just about a sale of

f-35s or this or that. it is about a much bigger message. we are coming to you and we are saying to you that we are doubling down this relationship that we want to be an even stronger partner. we want to buy technology from you that helps us defend ourselves from common threats and so we can fight with you in the future. this is a gamble on the future and we're telling you we are betting on you guys. this is why it's important. it's not just a transactional sale of just hardware. >> so, ron dermer, what message do you have to the biden administration about the iran nuclear deal? you have talked about it a bit. what message would you have about what is important to israel as this country moves forward and we move towards joe biden becoming president of the united states on january the

20th. >> well, first, i would thank the new administration for supporting this process, the abraham accords. it was one of the rare moments of consensus that then candidate biden had said he'd support the abraham accords and continue to build on them as president. we appreciate that, especially during the course of what was a very difficult election campaign. so we appreciate the fact and use receive can speak to this as well, there's broad bipartisan support to expand the circle of peace in the region. as for when it comes to iran, i would hope that the incoming administration would understand that 2020 is not 2015. we oppose the nuclear deal as you recall, joe, at the time. the arab states also privately opposed it. we publicly opposed it because we were concerned, one, it did not prevent iran from developing nuclear weapons. it would put limited restrictions that would be removed in a few short years. secondly, because it was going

to actually reduce and eliminate the sanctions on iran which would create a tail wind of increased aggression in the region and that happened between 2015 and 2018 when the trump administration pulled out of the deal and restored sanctions. what we would hope the new administration would do is to speak to your allies in the region. speak to israel, speak to the arab states who are on the front lines, just as when you're preparing to do something with north korea, you know what? you speak to japan, you speak to south korea. your allies in that region. speak to israel, speak to the arab states. try to forge a common policy with us because we are on the front lines and we are in danger from an aggressive iran. i think if we can do that, a new administration can reach out to those allies in the region. i'm confident that we could try to forge a common policy that will allow us to move forward together. >> ambassadors ron dermer and yousef al otaiba, thank you for being our guests. let's bring in the president

of the council on foreign relations and author of the book "the world, a brief introduction" richard haass. >> thank you so much for being with us. a lot to go over there. first of all, i think the most extraordinary part of it, i'm sure you would agree with me, is not only an israeli ambassador but benjamin netanyahu and his chief opponent in israel all saying that they're fine with an arab nation getting f-35s. i think that speaks actually to just how significant these abraham accords are. what is the impact for the region? >> well, the abraham accords are an important step in terms of normalization joe, but let's be honest, in and of themselves they do nothing to change the calculus between the israelis and the palestinians.

i think moving forward to me what are the saudis -- are they prepared to follow suit and when the uae made the deal with the israel, the annexation off the e for three years. what will be the saudi continue? let's say they say we will normalize with you, which, by the way, is an enormous deal given the role of saudi arabia and the arab and islamic words. what if the saudis say we will only normalize relations with you if you put a halt to all settlement activity? how will the netanyahu government react to that? watch that space. >> let me ask you how, you saw what happened in valdosta, georgia, this past weekend. the valdosta message that the president of the united states and his supporters want to overturn democratic elections of the united states of america. what message is that sending to

authoritarian leaders across the world, and especially in europe? i am looking at hungary and poland and wondering what those illiberal dachshunds are thinking when they see what deshaun watson did in south georgia. >> it's catnip for the authoritarians. it basically makes it much more difficult for us to challenge them as they continue to move down a repressive illiberal path and it totally dismays and undermines the confidence in america on the part of our democratic allies in europe and asia. it reinforces the sense that we have changed. and even if joe biden represents something of a return to a familiar america, what this does is plants the seed that maybe this country is not what we used to be and others who have put so many of their eggs in our basket, their security basket, maybe they need to rethink that. so we're essentially moving to a much more uncertain

post-american world. one other point. i thought the israeli ambassador said an interesting thing. the one thing that keeps him up at night is that the united states, the new administration will go back to the 2015 iran agreement. guess what? that's exactly what the president-elect said he was going to do. by his coming on your show this morning, the israelis are on a collision course with the new administration. they are jamming the president-elect and basically saying don't do this. don't re-enter that agreement. they are not doing it privately. they are doing it publicly. so right now this is sitting up as in some ways the first big challenge for the new administration on foreign policy and potentially gets u.s. israelis relations off on exactly the wrong foot. >> thank you very much. and this morning we reported on more of the picks that president-elect biden has made to serve in his administration. joining us now who was already

cochos chosen to seven, scedric richmod of louisiana. he held his seat since 2011 and will depart to join president-elect joe biden's white house as senior advisor to the president and director of the white house office of public engagement. and it's great to have you on the show. what will be your biggest challenge on day one? >> well, look, we have a enormous challenge that face us and the country. we are still worried about the people that are getting hurt healthwise from this pandemic and economically. that's going to be the focus of this administration. the focus of my office is going to reach out to the american people and all of the coalitions around the country to make sure that we just don't have them out there for output, but seek their input, too, as we govern and lead this country. >> joe biden has said he wants to be the president for people

who didn't vote for him as well. errin haines has the next question for you. >> good morning, congressman, and congratulations on your new role. listen, i actually have a couple of questions for you. one is on the transition and diversity. obviously, president-elect biden has said that diversity is going to be a priority for him. but there are black and brown leaders who are continuing to voice concerns about whether or not they are going to have seats at the table and really kind of have decision-making roles. i wonder what you say to those concerns. second, the president-elect identified four crises facing the country as he prepares to take office, namely, covid, the climate, the economy, and racial inequality. and i think that while we have seen him take steps to address his plans for the first three of those, i am wondering how he plans to address race and racism from a governing stabbed point

to show that that is a priority for him in the same way he has for the other three given the ran a campaign for the battle of the soul of america. >> to the last question, if you look at some of his picks, directly tying to economic prosperity in the african american community is breaking down systematic racism, closing the wealth gap, as you look at the first african american deputy secretary of treasury, the diversity of his picks. there are three african american women in the cabinet and we have only picked a couple of cabinet secretaries and that's already a record. i will tell you the same thing i said on the campaign when people asked this question. judge us when it's over about how we looked, about how diverse the campaign was, and it was very diverse. and this cabinet is going to be the exact same way. you don't release all the cabinet picks at once. but at the end of the day i think we are going to do exact

will i what he said and have a diverse cabinet, one that is historic. and so we will see. but the civil rights leaders are doing exactly what they are supposed to do. hispanic friends are doing what they are supposed to do and push us and we will do what we are supposed to do and govern. >> all right. donny deutsche has the next question. >> president-elect biden is going to have the task that no other president had, basically dealing with an ex-president who is continuing to be a voice of 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 million people. biden's been ignoring. going forward, any advice for the president-elect? >> well, look, i think he should keep doing what he is doing. the difference between donald trump and joe biden is very clear. donald trump cares about donald trump. joe biden cares about the american people. and i think he is going to continue to put them first. he is going to ask us to mask up

for 100 days so we can get our hands around this pandemic so that we can start to open this country up, build back better, do all of those things we talked about. and that is not for joe biden. that's for this great country that we live in. and so i think he is going to keep doing exactly what is he is doing, and that is to stay laser focused on the issues that are affecting everyday americans. and so the 13 million that are about to lose their unemployment, paid family leave, eviction moratorium expiring, all those things, we are going into christmas and people are catching hell. and so that's what we're worried about and that's what we will be laser focused on. not trump, not his temper tran trums, not any of those things. the american people is what we were elected to focus on. incoming senior advisor to the president and director of the white house office of public engagement, cedric richmond, thank you very much for being on this morning. and up next, georgia could see a spike in coronavirus

following the president's rally over the weekend. further south in florida there is also a surge of infections. we will talk to one of the state's leading house democrats when chief deputy whip stephanie murphy joins the conversation. we'll be right back. ♪ tonight...i'll be eating cheesy cauliflower pizza with extra broccolini. my tuuuurrrrn! tonight...i'll be eating cheesy cauliflower pizza and yummy broccolini! (doorbell rings) thanks. (doorbell rings) thank you. ♪ is that my leotard? no. yes... ehh, you can keep it. the we have to find just nosomething else.it. good luck! what does that mean? we are doomed. [laughter] that's it.

i figured it out! we're going to give togetherness. that sounds dumb. we're going to take all those family moments and package them. hmm. [laughing] that works. the poll book is completely off. completely off.

that -- >> off 30,000? >> i'd say that poll book is off by over 100,000. >> in -- >> that poll book -- why don't you look at the registered voters on there? how many registered voters are on there? did you -- do you even know the answer to that? >> no, i am trying to get to the bottom of this. >> zero. zero. there's zero. >> please just talk. >> you're gonna regret saying that because i personally saw hundreds if not thousands of dead people vote. >> you saw them? >> yeah, basically, yes, i was walking out and they were walking in. and then they gave their votes to democrats, and then you probably -- >> i don't handle ballots and i'm a republican. >> then you're literally useless. you have no use. did you check every poll? did you talk to all the dead people? >> we are state senators. >> excuse me. i have been threatened. my kids have been threatened. my kids have threatened me and i

have threatened them right back. >> i am sorry burks this testimony is full of lies. >> i am not lying. i sign an after david. >> an after david? >> yeah, that's correct. david signed and then i signed right after david. >> wow. cecily strom not disappointing on "snl" with her portrayal of the trump campaign's so-called witness in michigan. again, so-called hearing. a lot happened since we left you on friday morning. despite president trump's on going legal efforts to flip the results of the 2020 election, joe biden has officially security enough electors to become president. >> that guy has to tgot to be t of winning. >> he just keeps winning. that came when california certified its election results on friday and appointed 55 electors, pledged to vote for biden, putting biden over the 270 threshold of states that

have certified the election results. despite that, one month after election day, just 27 congressional republicans acknowledge joe biden's clear victory over president trump. a "washington post" survey of all 249 republicans in the house and senate began last week found that two republicans consider trump the winner overall. evidence showing otherwise. and another 220 gop members of the house and senate, 88% of all republicans serving in congress will simply not say who won the election. also, since late last week president trump and republican party allies lost five more election cases. in nevada, arizona, michigan, minnesota, and wisconsin, with a federal judge there calling the trump campaign's requests to

nullify election results, quote, bizarre. meanwhile, president trump headlined a rally in georgia on saturday intended to build support for the two republican candidates whose tight runoff elections will determine control of the senate, but he spent much of the time listing his own grievances. there was little mask-wearing at the event even though just a day before georgia had recorded its highest number of new covid cases yet. and you may remember that towards the end of the election those staged behind the president wore masks for the cameras, but saturday night even that section, most of the supporters went without masks. and, speaking of the coronavirus, we learned yesterday that rudy giuliani is now the latest member of president trump's circle to test positive for covid-19. last night giuliani tweeted, thank you to all my friends and

followers for all the prayers and kind wishes. i am getting great care -- of course he is -- and feeling good. recovering quickly and keeping up with everything. well, isn't that nice for him? with us we have white house reporter and "associated press" reporter jonathan lemire, host of msnbc's "politicsnation" and president of the national action network reverend al sharpton and nbc news capitol hill correspondent and host of "way too early" kasie hunt. >> let's go through a couple of these top stories. biden wins again. he keeps winning. >> well, he's won. >> yeah. i mean, he's won, but he keeps getting declared the winner. court cases dismissed as bizarre. republican judges, democratic judges, trump-appointed judges dismissing these cases as

bizarre. and "the washington post" survey that only 27 republicans are now admitting that joe biden won the presidential race, that everybody knows joe biden won in washington, d.c. mitch mcconnell had said from the start, kasie hunt, if we count all the votes and then the president has his court challenges and those are resolved, then we can move on. that's happened. over 270 electoral votes have now been certified, and yet only 27 republicans are saying that they are acknowledging that joe biden is the winner. this is a republican party that at least in washington, d.c., has moved on to a post-democracy phase where they -- and we could look at state legislators in pennsylvania, republicans who are actually signing letters saying they want to throw out

tens of millions -- not tens of millions but millions and millions of votes in pennsylvania. they want to move beyond democracy. they want to dismiss election results that don't suit them, just like, you know, dictators in russia or dictators in iran or dictators in venezuela would do. >> behind the scenes, joe, republicans are acting, acknowledging, operating under the reality that we all know to be true, which is that joe biden is going to take office on january 20th. but they are refusing to say it in public, as "the washington post" very carefully documented with all of their hard work. i mean, mitch mcconnell has already referred to a quote/unquote new administration. he did not do that with any fanfare. it was a brief moment in a regularly scheduled press conference. it came and went.

a lot of people, obviously, read into that. but as we know, mcconnell and joe biden have a relationship already and it's clear that that relationship is already influencing negotiations on capitol hill over government funding and covid relief. but what's happening in public doesn't line up with that. and the reality is that republican voters, people who support president trump, are listening to president trump, who is saying things in public, who is filling that void. and you can see in focus groups, in polling, you know, people who are talking to the voters on the ground, i mean, open up the facebook feed of anyone who is inclined to be open to believing what the president is saying and it's pretty clear that this is the message that's getting out. and i think the question is going to be, does it last? what happens in 2021-2022.

you talked about president trump and where he goes from here probably nowhere. he is now lost in your words. but i think this damage that's being done is something that is unpredictable. we haven't seen it before. we haven't had a political party that has collectively at the national level said this, you know, not been willing to do this. if you think back to anyone of the elections, flip the parties back and forth, everyone would have been outraged if no one had acknowledged obama is the winner or george w. bush is the winner, the other party. in fact, republicans are angry about how democrats handled al gore in the wake of the 2000 election. so there is so many questions here and they have got a deadline tomorrow. tomorrow is the safe harbor deadline for the electors. that's when they have to be certified so we know we can figure out who the president is going to be when they formally meet the following week. it's another test. they can still step up or step up now if they choose to. i don't know if we will see it.

>> the must-read opinion pages next. you are watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. tching "mor. we'll be right back. wow. that will save me lots of money. this game's boring. only pay for what you need. liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.

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let's get to some must-read opinion pages n the latest op-ed jonah goldberg rights for the dispatch, coach, if six months ago i were to describe the last month to politicians still rewarding and encouraging trump's behavior, most would say i was succumbing to trump derangement syndrome. oh, come on, he wouldn't do that, they'd say. and even for those who thought this outrageous affront to the civic order might be possible, they'd certainly take great offense if i followed up with, not only will he try to steal the election with deranged conspiracy theories, not only will his champions call for martial law and erase the loss, but you won't say boo about it. in fact, you'll even say he should run again. well, that's happened. they created this

self-destructive mess. they created it by refusing to take the right path not just because the right path was hard, but because the wrong path was so easy. as screwtape explains, the safest road to hell is the gradual one. the gentle slope. soft underfoot without sudden turnings, without milestones, without sign posts. now america isn't in hell, but the people who did nothing or far too little are day by beis set by lesser fresher hells of their own making, and i'm making popcorn. the gloriously entertaining spectacle of trump and his ambitious prolkgy suddenly having to deal with their own mini machine trumps and the form of wood, powell, and their minions is enough to turn their home-brood dumpster juice into delicious elixir sweeter even

than their liberal tears. that's one way of putting it. another, who will be 2020's margaret chase smith? history can sometimes help us through current moments by showing what's needed and providing inspiration. it is her declaration of conscience speech for which margaret chase smith is best remembered. it was 1950 and she was increasingly disturbed by senator joe mccarthy's anti-communist crusade. she took on both parties, accusing the democrats of showing complacency towards the threat of communism at home and republicans allowing innocent people to be smeared. when history hand you a mccarthy, reckless, heedlessly manipulating his followers, be a margaret chase smith. saying an election was rigged, an entire system corrupted, you

would recognize such baseless charges damage democracy itself. you wouldn't let election officials be smeared. you would stand against a growing his titeria in the base. you would likely pay some price, but years later you would still be admired for who you were when it counted so much. >> ronald reagan speech writer and "wall street journal" editorial opinion page writer peggy noonan. >> i don't understand why it's hard right now. >> it's not. >> it's not. >> it's just not. they are cowards. >> it's not. you could hide behind a lot of things if you need to cower, republicans. you could hide behind science. it's not hard. >> they have been -- the votes have been certified now. so the votes have been counted. >> you could also hide behind that. >> the votes have been counted, as mitch mcconnell said. they have been challenged in court. joe biden's won every one of those challenges.

"the wall street journal" editorial page and national review editorial page have said the charges are baseless that donald trump is bringing forward, and now the elections have been certified. there is no excuse. you have no excuse anymore, republicans. none whatsoever other than what you don't care about democracy enough to defend against a tyrant who is trying to undermine the votes of over 81 million americans. coming up, donald trump, george wallace and the influence of losers. the that's next on "morning joe." 's next on "morning joe. go on, humans,

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let's bring in staff writer for "the new yorker" steve call. the latest piece in the new yorker is entitled donald trump, george wallace and the influence of losers. and he writes, in part, quote, over the next four years, the post-trump republican party will seek don sol date the president's voters in its electoral campaigns ooms even if

his influence is diminished. some will try it trump's way. the most worrying part of trump's legacy is his no longer ambiguo ambiguous disdain for elections and the constitution. out of an instinct for self-preservation, an attraction to authoritarianism and a wounded ego, trump has launched an absurdly inept but still frightening attempt to overturn the 2020 results by sheer force of will. i would say, joe and steve, i think it's beyond an attraction to authoritarianism. i think he thinks he is there. every part of trump's behavior, he doesn't understand democracy and he doesn't give a damn about it. he doesn't understand what's precious and beautiful and worth saving about it. >> he never has. he said that article 2 of the constitution gives him supreme power to do whatever he wants do for as long as he wanted to do. he questioned the authority of

the federal judiciary. >> look at these people showing up. >> the federal judiciary has shown him in short course over the past four years actually who does still have power. but, yeah, the influence that steve's talking about is not just now, but what happens in the future? and steve, as i was reading your article, you're exactly right. it's not what's happening now. it's what impact he is going to have four, eight years from now. i was thinking about ross perot and how -- well, how pat buchanan's election in '82 impacted ross perot's election in '94 who impacted the republican party moving for every much as mainstream republicanism did. >> i was listening to your conversation earlier. in addition to being ecstatic you were promoting joan didion, which is always the solution to a complicated crisis like we are in, i was thinking about how what's different because, you

know, i think tracing all the way back to the 1960s is helpful. i was struck by some of the parallels between george wallace's unsuccessful campaign in 1968 and its influence on the republican party's southern strategy afterwards. you're right to mention perot and the rise of a certain kind of nationalist populism during the 1990s. but when you ask what's different now, obviously it's, you know, 50 years on from the '60s. it's a different country. i wonder if the role of disinformation and the way our media distributes it through social media platforms and just the saturated media culture that we're in doesn't create a different kind of danger than the one joan didion antibioticed in san francisco -- observed in san francisco in '68 and '67. what is the half-life of these lies, this propaganda machine? it is a structure.

we have a research center at columbia that looks at disinformation, and one of its findings this year was that hundreds and hundreds of local news sites have been created by political groups masquerading as your local news site, but pouring out the kinds of messaging you heard on the staining in georgia from the president over the weekend. we have to be aware that there are some things that are disturbingly continuous in american politics, but there is some new features of our public square that i don't really, myself, feel like i have got a grip on. >> let me ask steve this question. based on that, unlike what happened to wallace, who clearly tapped into some feelings that were there, but ran his course, doesn't the fact that we now have these different social media and other media outlets make it possible that these can become a permanent presence that

does not easily disappear from the body politic because they are addressing something people really feel, but they can continually exploit that? >> yeah, i think that's exactly the question, because, i mean, you can get a little abstract about it. but in the aftermath of wallace's dying gasp jim crow campaign in 1968, the media moved on. the media were three networks and major newspapers and they saw his campaign as a sort of a dying ember that was no longer relevant. and his voters didn't go away. that we understand clearly now. obviously, again the country has changed a lot in 50 years and it's not a straight line. but these sources of resentment that can be mobilized into demagogueic politics stay with us. you were asking the question, how long will this persist because there are no restraints on speech as our constitution

provides. but because also we're so connected and there is so much bottom-up sharing of disinformation, and it's so easy to manufacture propaganda and distribute it almost without being detected, you know, will this provide a residual source of toxicity in our politics? definitely. i was struck by joe biden's comments in an interview with thomas friedmann where he was asked, how bad is it going to be? he said, well, look, 72 million people, referring to trump's voters, is a lot of people. but i only think the ugliness is going to stick around for maybe 20, 25%. well, that's a lot. and that's enough for authoritarian campaigns to mobilize, as you can see, in the history of europe and many other places. >> coming up, the newly appointed house chief deputy whip congresswoman stephanie murphy of florida joins the conversation. plus, a date which will live in

infamy. we will talk about america's role in world 79 years after the strike on pearl harbor. "morning joe" is back in a moment. oe" is back in a moment (customer) hi? (burke) happy anniversary. (customer) for what? (burke) every year you're with us, you get fifty dollars toward your home deductible. it's a policy perk for being a farmers customer. (customer) do i have to do anything? (burke) nothing. (customer) nothing? (burke) nothing. (customer) nothing? (burke) nothing. (customer) hmm, that is really something. (burke) you get a whole lot of something with farmers policy perks. see ya. (kid) may i have a balloon, too? (burke) sure. your parents have maintained

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. december 7, 1941, a date which will live in infamy. the united states of america was suddenly and deliberately attacked by naval and air forces of the empire of japan. no matter how long it may take us to overcome this pre-med dated invasion, the american people in their righteous might will win through to absolute victory. [ cheers and applause ] >> that was president roosevelt addressing congress a day after

japan attacked pearl harbor on december 7, 79 years ago today. joining us now, presidential biographer, craig shirley, among his many historical books is one on the pearl harbor attacks entitled "december 1941, 31 days that changed america and saved the world." also with us historian and rogers chair in the american presidency at vanderbilt university jon meacham who unofficially advises president-elect joe biden. and president of the council of foreign relations richard haass is back with us as well. >> jon meacham unofficiallivizes joe biden. he also wins pulitzer prizes in his pass time. he is not doing that. jon meacham, let's begin with you. we have been looking through the eyes of other presidents give advice to joe biden through their stories, their lives and what lessons they learned.

let's talk about this event that we remember today that is, of course, the bombing of pearl harbor in 1941. what can joe biden take away from fdr and this incredibly important chapter in america's history? >> well, i think the first thing is that presidents never quite know what's coming at them. history happens. that's why it's history, and not an absolutely predictable series of events. you know, fdr had two of the great crises of american history on his watch. the first, the crisis of capitalism and then the crisis of fascism abroad and the future of democratic institutions, lower case d, afternoon the world.

roosevelt had a remarkable capacity to lead what was even then two americas. there was an isolationist america, isolationist sentiment was incredibly strong. today is the day that pushed america -- this is a very important point. america did not decide, you know what? we are going to go save the world for liberty. we were attacked on this day by japan, and then it took us five days, as craig knows well, to declare war on nazi germany, which we only did after hitler declared war on us. and so arthur slaysinger used to talk about isolationism versus interventionism in the '30s and '40s as this day was coming was as divisive as vietnam, i would argue perhaps more so. we are divided in that way. so you have to find a way to

talk to both of those constituencies while you try to crystallize and lead. >> craig, you wrote the book, obviously, on pearl harbor. tell us what the incoming president can learn from the lessons of those 31 remarkable days. >> the presidency is ultimately about big ideas. it's about big initiatives. it's about leadership. and on leadership, you cannot lead a divided country very well. you must have unity. to and so when you become president, you have to forget about your base. yes, you are still an ideological man or political man or woman in the future sometime, but you also have to speak to and lead all of the american people. and fdr knew that innately, and so did ronald reagan. ronald reagan, you know, had been a democrat longer when he was elected in 1980 than he had been a republican. so he often made appeals.

that's what produced the reagan democrat because he made cultural appeals to democrats after the democrats in the cities -- but he knew that a president can't just lead from his base. he has to lead from a sizable majority of the american people. if you look at the history of the american presidency, most successful presidents led for a majority of the american people, not just from their base. >> richard haass, what makes today so different is the war that we're facing right now, i mean, it is a common enemy, everybody is challenged by and threatened by the coronavirus. yet, the nation is so divided about it. >> craig and john correctly pointed out a reluctance in american history toy go to war. there are two other lessons joe biden ought to take from today. one is the risk of prevent the strike. japan won the battle that day

but lost the war as well. rather than sap american morale, it actually brought americans together, generated enormous war effort. it's a real lesson, prevektive attacks -- the other is on us, which is the danger of assumptions and intelligence. and almost like the way israel got attacked in 1973 by the arabs, they weren't looking for it. we had dismiss add lot of things there. it's a real lesson, whether it's pandemics or in this case a military attack, to question your own assumptions. just because you are not looking for something doesn't mean it's not going to happen. >> let's talk, jon meacham, about andrew jackson briefly. the book for which you won the pulitzer prize. you wrote that during the bush era. there was certainly some parallels there that you brought out effectively. but what's the big takeaway from andrew jackson's eight years in the white house that joe biden can learn from?

>> i think a relentless focus on what jackson called the plain working people. a slight paraphrase from the bank veto message. but jackson understood that the country had an innate, and it was pretty innate because we were only a half century old at that point, distrust of elites. the idea that the have's and the have not's, that drama was an ambient one for jackson. and he convinced a significant majority of white people in that era that he was their champion, that against the congress, against the bank of the united states, against the slave -- the

south carolina interest that was trying to nullify federal laws, against all of these forces, he was their champion. and i think that repeating that message as long as you possibly can and as frequently as you can is essential. jackson understood that, in fact, the presidency was the one point in the system where all eyes could turn, and so he understood that. he used it. t.r. gets the credit for the bully pulpit, but jackson understood that intuitively. >> craig, surely, obviously you are a prolific historian on all things ronald reagan. what message does ronald reagan teach joe biden? >> read your mail. that was the one unspoken piece of history about ronald reagan or underreported piece of history, is that he read his mail. not all of it because he got thousands of pieces of mail on a monthly basis, daily, weekly

basis, but his secretary would pick out three or four letters from the hate pile, three or four letters from the love pile and three or four from the hurting pile and he would read all of them. and this is his way of getting past the washington elites the way jackson wanted to get past the elites and reach the american people. seeing what was on their minds and what was going on in their lives. he often wrote private letters, personal letters offering advice, offering solis. sometimes he sent checks to people who were hurting. one time he sent a check to a woman and she didn't cash it for a month. he called her. he was balancing his checkbook in the white house. he called her. she was living in indiana. he wrote her a check. he said, why didn't you cash my check? she said, mr. president, they said at the bank, this is the signature of the united states, i wanted to keep it as a souvenir. he said i will send you a second

check, but don't cash both of them. >> that's funny. and finally, richard haass, on this pearl harbor day, we are certainly hearing ominous warnings on many fronts about china's growth, their military expansion. how do we approach china over the next four years? how does joe biden approach china in a balanced way over the next four years? >> joe, it will be extraordinarily difficult because we are going to have to figure out how we push back against china in a way that hopefully doesn't lead to escalation and in a manner that doesn't preclude cooperation, say, on climate change or dealing with north korea where it's still on our interest. it will be a real test of state craft, of foreign policy to get this balance right. one thing is we shouldn't be doing it alone. we have all these partners and

allies in asia and europe. let's take advantage of them. let's approach carolina collectively rather than making it a bilateral competition. and lastly, some things we have to to for ourselves. we have got to improve, you know, american competitiveness. that's about immigration policy. it's about all of the things that we do with covid to get the economy doing. if we free ourselves up to compete with china, we can do just fine. >> all right. jon meacham, craig shirley and richard haass, thank you for being us with. and craig, if you want to keep your blood pressure down, do not, for god's sake, do not watch showtime's four-part documentary on ronald reagan because you will find out that if you support the localized -- trying to keep things on the local level as much as possible, that you hate black people, if you support small government,

you hate poor people, and if you smiled every time ronald reagan said, well, then you supported nuclear war. i have never seen anything -- i got to say, even all these years later, it's amazing how much ronald reagan still angers people. and really, for me, the highlight of it, when mika said you have got to stop, like, talking at the tv society, was when reagan made that extraordinary move towards ending the threat of nuclear war with the soviet union. what did showtime do? instead of talking to russian experts, instead of talking to people on the world stage, that they would then use that time to talk to nancy reagan's as str l astrologer. it was one of the most biased mainstream documentaries i have seen in my life.

there is not a close seconds. >> i have written two reviews of it, joe. it is atrocious. it is the worst in triumph of the will. you know, he completely glossed over the assassination attempt. it is one of the -- probably the worst documentary i have ever seen ever, and the worst documentary on ronald reagan. it's truly atrocious. >> and the fact that, again, all these years later people can't get their arms around reagan, there are a lot of things that he did that deserved criticism. a lot of things that he did to deserve praise. but it just reminds me again, you can look at pearlman's book, who i thought wrote an extraordinary book on goldwater and that revolution, an extraordinary book on nixon land, but then just, like edmund morris, could not get to the essence of ronald reagan. and so wrote something that was just wildly off track. >> okay. up next, secrecy and spin. how florida's governor misled

the public on the covid-19 pandemic. new reporting on what happened in florida. plus, an update on covid relief talks from the newest member of the democratic house leadership. and before we go to break, a big story in the moog i cusic world. universal music publishing group announced it signed a landmark deal to purchase bob dylan's entire song-writing catalog. it includes classic like "blowing in the wind," "the times they are a changing" and "like a rolling stone" in what "the new york times" says may be the biggest acquisition ever. it was estimated at more than 300 million. and speaking of playlists, make sure you get your christmas playlist from filter. the best of the old classic and some new ones as but. you might hear a track or two

from joe's band, the independent council of nung that is exclusively on filter. and speaking of chart toppers, our very own steve kornacki took his big board talents and his signature khakis to nbc's sunday night football last night. take a look. >> we have been waiting for somebody, anybody to take charge of that nfc east. did the giants do that today with that upset win in seattle? let's take a look at the nfc east coming into today. it was the giants in washington. they were both tied at 4-7 atop that division with the win, the giants to 5-7. you see the playoff probability jumps from about 1-3 to 45% for the giants, and that number, by the way, could grow soon because, look, washington, they still got to play pittsburgh this week. if washington loses that game, the giants then move a full game ahead of washington.

and by the way, they have the tiebreaker over washington with those two headwind -to-head vic. that 45% could climb further. that's what getting an upset win in that division will do this year. >> the guy can do our grocery wli lists. >> i love it! the way he found out he was doing this, my daughter texted me all these hearts. and then kornacki, sunday night football in america! it might not be the last time we see him crunching the numbers for nbc's "football night in america." we'll be right back. erica. we'll be right back. serena: it's my 4:10, no-excuses-on-game-day migraine medicine. it's ubrelvy.

for anytime, anywhere migraine strikes see him crunching the numbers too la see him crunching the numbers one dose of ubrelvy works fast. it can quickly stop my migraine in its tracks within two hours, relieving pain and debilitating symptoms. do not take with strong cyp3a4 inhibitors. most common side effects were nausea see him crunching the numbers see him crunching the numbers serena: migraine hits hard. hit back with ubrelvy. the anytime, anywhere migraine medicine.

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right now, across the s sunbelt, we have governors and mayors who have cases equivalent to what they had in the summertime yet aren't putting in the same policies and mitigations that they put in the summer that they know changed the course of this pandemic across the south. so it is frustrating because not only do we know what works. governors and mayors use those tools to stem the tide in the spring and the summer. and this fall/winter surge is combining everything that we saw in the spring with everything that we saw in the summer. plus the fall surge going into a winter surge. i think that's why dr. redfield made this absolute appeal to the american people. this is not just the worst public health event. this is the worst event this country will face. not just from a public health side. yet we know what behaviors

spread the virus and we know how to change those behaviors to stop spreading the virus. >> a concern from dr. deborah birx comes as the "sun sentinel" on friday published a report on governor ron desantis' handling of the coronavirus pandemic and found that he intentionally engaged in a pattern of spin and concealment that misled the public. based on interviews with more than 50 state employees, doctors and political leaders, as well as 4,000 pages of documents, the "sentinel" reports the desantis administration defused to reveal details about infections in schools, prisons, hospitals and nursing homes until forced to by legal action. joining us now, congresswoman stephanie murphy of florida who was appointed chief deputy whip of the house democratic party. my god, i mean, what does it take to be accused much breaking

the law at this point? as governor, isn't your job to inform the public and keep them safe? >> well, it's great to be with you this morning. i'm sorry this is what we're having to talk about. but governor desantis' response to this pandemic has been marked with not only incompetence but this dangerous misinformation, withholding critical data from the public. he has failed floridians. and the result is that they are losing their lives and livelihoods. i worked at the department of defense on pandemics back in the early 2000s, and i know that the path out of a pandemic is through science and medicine. and for him to suppress the data that is so needed to make good decisions, whether that is about sending your kids to schools or what you can do, how safe it is for you to engage in commerce and other things, all of that information is dependent on the data that this governor is withholding from floridians. it is negligent.

and it is costing people their lives. >> the question i have is, is it willful and purposeful? let's bring in the state attorney for palm beach county, dave arrenberg. if the governor of a state purposely withholds information that could save lives and purposely does not follow cdc guidelines that could save lives is that at any point some sort of willful act that could add up to a crime or what? where are we? >> you have to meet a very high burden, mika. it's not enough just to ignore cdc guidelines. the trump administration is doing that all the time, and it's their own guidelines. you have show some high level of fraud here. this is nothing new to the state of florida. rebecca jones, the whistleblower, used to run our state's covid website. she said that she was cold to delete data that would indicate the state knew about covid in advance of when they reported

it. plus, she said that she was told to change data that showed that the spread in rural communities was greater than reported. and then there was a case of the medical examiners where the medical examiners had a higher death toll, but the state of florida didn't like what they were reporting so ordered the medical examiners to stop reporting their figures. i guess that's the scientific principle that if you close your eyes you can make it all go away. the most disturbing thing about the story in the "sun sentinel" was the report about the 2006 law that the state passed to create and institute emerging pathogens at the university of florida. they created a group of experts who come together to deal with situations like this, but the governor has ignored their advice. and instead is relying on dr. scott atlas, the same doctor who has no experience in infectious diseases and has led our country's covid response into the ditch. if you're wondering why a state like florida with more than 1

million covid cases still has only 1 of 13 states without a mask mandate, now you know why. >> and lawmakers today may not make today's self-imposed deadline. lawmakers in washington. for releasing the text of the covid-19 relief package. and they will definitely not include another $1200 payment to americans. president-elect joe biden was among those hoping negotiations would produce a second wave of the very popular stipend but the bill will only provide an extra $300 a month in federal unemployment. bernie sanders says he'll oppose any bill that doesn't include the $1200 payment but for alexandria ocasio-cortez, she says she remains open to it. congresswoman murphy, what is it going to take to help people who are suffering and some of them, you know, have no financial legs to stand on now.

>> you know, for months i've been pushing for a bipartisan covid relief bill, and i think the senate proposal has a good framework. it brings both sides back to the negotiating table and they're having real conversation. but that's a step forward, although not one that i'm sure the american people feel a lot of hope in because they don't yet see the money in their pockets or the support into law. but we have to understand that republicans haven't been serious about negotiating. their side hasn't put a bill together that is remotely realistic or that has a chance to be -- to pass the senate. look, i think democrats need to make hard compromises here. we have cold hard months ahead of us and there's no time to waste, particularly in florida where our state unemployment is disastrously low. look, we at the federal level have the ability to help the american people today, and we need to think about it as a down payment. we can and should do more to help workers and american businesses get through this

winter and we can fight for more in the future. >> all right. congresswoman stephanie murphy, thank you. dave arrenberg, really quickly, having people delete information in government websites, i am still confused as to how that's not fraudulent. denying people information changing it, deleting it. >> mika, she has the -- rebecca jones, the database manager, has come out publicly and there is apparently some whistleblower complaint and civil litigation out there, but as far as criminal matters, you need to show really a high burden because the governor enjoys a level of sovereign immunity. unlike the president, the governor is subject to an indictment while in office. there's no doj policy that protects state governors from an indictment from a sitting district attorney. it all depends on the facts. if you're wondering about whether the voters can recall the governor in florida, we do not have that power.

so, really, the main way to change who leads the state from the top is at the ballot box in 2022, but it will be well after covid has passed us so the governor is counting on that so he can wait this crisis out. >> terrible. dave, thank you so much. congresswoman stephanie murphy of florida, recently appointed chief deputy whip of the house democratic majority. congratulations on that. thank you as well for being on this morning. and that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. hi there. i'm stephanie ruhle. it is monday, december 7th, and here's what's happening this morning. today, hospitalizations are at all-time highs. major cities are locking down, and we're hitting nearly 200,000 new coronavirus cases every single day. and once again, we're learning that this virus doesn't discriminate. rudy giuliani, one of the president's closest allies, who hasee