winner. in michigan the secretary of state is describing a terrifying moment outside of her home over the weekend. saying armed protesters gathered in front of her house, shouting obscenities while she was inside with her 4-year-old son. >> we're here in front of the secretary of state's house, and we want her to know we will continue to be here. that's right. right there. we will continue to be here because we are sick and tired of her ignoring everything that has to happen. >> unbelievable. meanwhile in georgia a federal judge is dismissing another legal challenge, calling the lawsuit brute by former trump attorney sidney powell, quote, the most extraordinary relief ever sought in any election. this has president trump's personal lawyer rudy giuliani is suffering covid after testing positive. at events not wearing a mask,

nor mask wearing around him. i'll talk to dr. michael osterholm about what needs to be done to smooth the vaccine rollout. but we begin with nbc reporter monica alba. phil rucker anbc justice correspondent pete williams. pete, first you, michigan and then georgia, in whatever order, the decision is the same, the trump forces lose. >> reporter: right, what's happening here, andrea, these two lawsuits were filed by sidney powell both in michigan and georgia they're running up the iron law of political challenges which is the longer you wait after the election, the harder it to get a judge or a court to change how the state is doing its business of conducting an election and certifying a vote. now, in both cases, the court said, number one, there really isn't strong evidence. when you go into court and say

we want an injunction. we want you to decertify the votes. we want you to call into election all of those sorts of things, you're having a federal judge for an extraordinary amount of relief. you better really have the goods. and what the judge in michigan said this morning is, there's a lot of supposition. there's witnesses who say we believe this happened. this is what we think happened but that's not good enough at this stage to get the kind of release that they're asking for. and secondly, the judges are saying, you know, number one, don't come to federal court with these problems. if you've got a problem with how the state is following state law, go to state court. and number three, you just waited too long. the lawsuit in michigan was filed 21 days after the election. that's just too long. the judge said, for all of these reasons, not enough evidence. waiting too long. wrong court to go to. all of those legal reasons, in addition to evidentiary reasons

these lawsuits are flaming out. >> it seems like law school 101, really on every issue. monica, what we're hearing today, rudy giuliani is in charge of this whole legal task force, he's now in the hospital. you know, unfortunately for him and for everyone around him, with covid. >> reporter: and experiencing mild symptoms, we understand, andrea. he did tweet overnight saying he was receiving great care at a georgetown university affiliated hospital. and that he was feeling okay. and he felt he would be able to make a full recovery. but, of course, the fact that he's 76 years old and has been hospitalized shows you that this is a case that isn't just mild where you're asymptomatic or not experiencing any difficulties, you wouldn't need to be hospitalized. but we know from the president's own diagnosis of coronavirus, when you get access early to an excellent treatment, say an antibody cocktail or something similar which we've seen other white house associates and advisers have access on early

on, you can do very well. so, we are waiting to understand sand learn a little bit more about the former new york city mayor's condition. but it does come as he was traveling the country. he was in three battleground states just in the last week or so. never wearing a mask or face covering. in fact, others who were wearing them if they'd be comfortable removing them. this is somebody who has defied any of the cdc or white house administration guidelines when it comes to coronavirus which reflects really what this white house has been doing over the last few months, as they continue to hold indoor holiday parties with dozens, sometimes, hundreds of people without social distancing or wearing masks. but rudy giuliani is just one of the latest of people close to the president to test positive. of course, we know that the president's eldest son donald trump jr. tested positive recently so it rudy giuliani's son, andrew giuliani who worked at the white house. it's another striking example. we're now up to 53 people just since the beginning of october,

in the president's orbit, campaign or affiliated with the white house who have tested positive for covid. andr andrea. >> it's really striking. phil, you and carolina, your co-author, are writing a new book on the final year of the trump presidency become that's been announced. congratulations. a year consumed by exits, there may be another exit soon, bill barr. you may actually write a year -- this is a sequel to your book, "a very stable genius." this could be the final month of donald trump. we could call it an unstable genius, perhaps? >> we'll have to see, we'll take that title idea, andrea, under consideration. but you mentioned attorney general bill barr, there's a great deal of attention to him and the president and the president's comments last week where he said that the justice department has found no evidence

to support the claims of widespread fraud that could have affected the outcome of the election. that is not a statement that this president wanted to hear from this justice department. he has been on bill barr since back in the summer, to try to use the power of the justice department, to use federal investigative resources to do his political bidding. first to investigate the bidens and bring into light some of the findings of that inquiry and the russia investigation before the november 3rd election. and then since, to try to help the president in his crusade to investigate these fantasies of fraud. there's no evidence, of course, to support it. but the president still wants some sort of an investigation that could uncover some sort of fantastical fraud that could somehow overturn the results of the election. well, the attorney general is not going along with it. because of that he very well could lose his job from the

president. and there's even some reporting that bill barr is considering possibly resigning the post between now and the inauguration on january 20th. >> and, pete, you cover bill barr, would he be thinking about leaving just to get out before he gets fired on to witter? >> well, i suspect that's part of the calculation here. the people we've talked to say that barr was actually thinking about stepping down before the kerfuffle of last week. i'm sure that hasn't hemmed matters any. and may enter into his calculus. he told me in october if trump were re-elected that he would stay for at least a couple years into the next term. so, i don't think it's surprising that he's thinking about leaving before the end of the term. he did stay all the way to the end before he was attorney general and most a.g.s, not all, do stay until inauguration day. but i would think if he's thinking about this, this would certainly cause him perhaps to

think about it harder. >> and can you briefly talk to us about safe harbor day. you've been writing nab about t as well. i guess that's tomorrow. >> sure, mark your calendars. under federal law, the safe harbor day, it's a law on the books well over 100 years. if a state gets its slate of presidential electors chosen by tomorrow which is six days before the electoral college meets on the 14th, then this congress must count those votes. obviously, if the state does tell after tuesday, congress can still count it, but it's kind of a belt and suspenders extra security thing. that's why states are rushing to resolve certification questions, get lawsuits settled, by tomorrow to meet that safe harbor deadline. now, some states are not going to date them or at least have a tough time making them. because there are active lawsuits in wisconsin, for example, so they may have a hard

time meeting the safe harbor deadline. so it's something is that the states really want to try to do. >> thanks for all of that. pete williams, phil rucker and monica alba at the white house. bob bower is a senior campaign advicer in the white house. bob haven't seen you for a while. congratulations in the result. >> thank you, thank you very much. >> you were active in the transition. and with these battles, so far i think 50 or 51 cases have been filed. and just the majority have been rejected, dismissed. the federal jumdges, even the trump jump was very stringent in his comments about the whole case. so, where does it stand now? are you going to keep filing cases and you have to keep showing up in court? >> it's not clear what they're doing, other than embarrassing themselves.

you're quite right, the judge in the third circuit, by the way, i think you're referring to the pennsylvania case is a trump appointee saying they present nod allegations, no proof. a judge in wisconsin said the allegations were absolutely bizarre. and we know now that the attorney general of the united states, has said he sees no evidence of fraud that would affect the outcome of the election. the president has fired him and previously fired the official responsible for cyber security and infrastructure security at the department of homeland security which said it was the most secure election in history. trump fired him for saying that. it's not clear what they hope to about accomplish here. as i said, i think they're embarrassing themselves. the courts are dmiismissing the cases as rapidly fundamentally as they're filing them. they're really setting records for failures in this area. just abject failures in this carry. i just want to amend one piece that pete williams said, not

that anything said was inaccurate. it was all accurate. he made a point of saying there were all sorts of technical reasons including delays that account for how the courts are responding negatively to them. but i want to add there's an overriding reason that the suits were failing. they're failing because there's absolutely no evidence in any of these cases and that would come screaming to all of these decisions, the judges are scratching their heads, asking them what case are you bringing forward? and there is no case. there's no evidence. it's all a fantasy. and that's why it's crashing and burning in sort of the publicly embarrassing way that it is. >> in fact, agency pes pete and us have been reporting in some of these cases, in one case particularly they said to giuliani, are you claiming fraud? i think it was the pennsylvania case. he said, no, we're not claiming fraud. so they're not saying in court -- because they know they

can't lie to a judge, they're not saying what they're saying publicly in the so-called hearings being held in hotel suites or in front of the four seasons -- whatever the name of that place was. >> yes, that's very important. to add to this -- >> let me ask you about bill barr -- go ahead. >> i'm sorry. >> go ahead. no problem. to add to his perverse legal carnival that we're seeing, your point is exactly right. there are lawyers inside the courtroom that have to say the opposite of the public messaging that are being put out by jenna ellis and sidney powell and others. they have to say, no, in fact, we're not alleging fraud. that's not what we're doing here because they are in a position where they can't lie to the judge. but they make outlandish claims in the pleadings before they're asked by the judge. and they make outlandish pleadings in their messaging.

and there are law firms that represent the campaign at the outset of this supseudo challen and they've resigned. now it's a ragtag group of lawyers who are creating this monumental spectacle of failure. >> let me ask you about the attorney general because we've seen a complete breakdown of any firewall between the white house and the justice department in terms of prosecutions, pardons, or what cases to proceed with. what cases to drop. whom to go after. special counsels being brought in and other former, you know, u.s. attorneys being brought in to look into things. the enemies list. bill barr now split with the president on whether there was election fraud. and now the president pressuring him publicly saying making a decision he feels about is him, while he still has confidence in him, he said to kristen welker, depending on what happens in the next couple weeks, switch your

position on selection fraud and maybe i won't embarrass you by firing you which certainly the implication. >> i mentioned early earlier he fired christopher krebs for saying the election, there was no fraud. does he imagine that legislators are not hearing, the members of congress are hearing, the pressure he's putting on his own officials to lie about the outcome of the election? i mean, this is only adding to the clear cut view everybody has of the complete baselessness of all of this. the complete pressure to apply to state officials who turned away most recently in georgia, just refusing to do his bidding. it is just an extraordinary public collapse of these claims. and everything he does makes it look even worse and prejudices his position in every possible direction. >> the trump league strategy seems to be also targeting major

cities that are majority black when they talk about what's happening in philadelphia, detroit and other cities. is there a civil rights case at all against them? >> there's no question that the targeting of these cities, and these particular communities and the code words that they're using for the kind of quote/unquote fraud that they say is typical in those communities exposes i think the dark underside of what they're doing here, absolutely exposes it. at this point, however, the election is lost. he be leaving the scene. people worried for some time whether donald trump would refuse to leave, what we have seen is really quite remarkable pri i do want to pause here particularly in honor of officials like jocelyn benson. across the country, democrats and republicans have showed up for this. he's going to leave. the election was held, the

voters were heard, it's over. i do think the legal claims made and the other place about the conduct of the lawyers and the principals in this case, including the president himself, one thing stands out very clearly which is the system held together extraordinarily well. and also did so in an election held under extraordinarily challenging circumstances in the middle of a pandemic. so, for all of that, you know, he huffed and he puffed, but he could not blow the house down. >> do you have any legal recourse when even after the gsa basically declared that joe biden won and the electoral college is about to meet next week, even then, the transition team can't get into the pentagon to meet with their counterparts who are going to be dealing with military intelligence because nbc is reporting, as others now, that the official in charge, cash patel is not letting them

meet with the proper people. >> well, as you know there was a delay here that was simply inconsistent with law. nonetheless, the administration persisted with a very robust transition, or the incoming transition. that is to say, the biden/harris administration, incoming administration, persisted with a very robust transition that i think moved things along very smartly. and regardless of what, you know, impediments may be thrown up in their path here and there, i think there's general agreement that this transition will take place. and it will be successful. and that the biden/harris administration will be ready to govern. we'll see what happens in these reports and how significant any one of these problems may be. i'm fairly optimistic at the end of the day that this will be a successful transition as, frankly, it has been from the very beginning, at least son the part of the biden/harris transition. taking all of the steps necessary to get ready to govern. >> thank you so much, bob bauer,

thanks for being with us today. and the biden team announces the team that will lead the covid response when the new administration takes office in 44 days. plus, the vaccine, state officials at work and how to distribute the covid vaccine to millions. who's going to get the potentially life-saving shot first? you're watching "andrea mitchell reports." i do is help new homes overcome this. what is that, an adjustable spanner? good choice, steve. okay, don't forget you're not assisting him. you hired him. if you have nowhere to sit, you have too many. who else reads books about submarines? my dad. yeah. oh, those are -- progressive can't protect you from becoming your parents, but we can protect your home and auto when you bundle with us. look at that.

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president-elect biden announcing the team that will be on the front lines in the fight

against the coronavirus pandemic after he takes office, of course. that's going to be made official -- it was made official today. and he's going to announce it, i guess, in person, in an afternoon event tomorrow. he's reached out to former congressman and attorney general javier becerra to lead the health and human services. and he's picked an internationally known infectious disease expert from massachusetts hotel dr. rochelle walensky to take over the cdc which has been widely criticized under president trump. the rollout continues as we see another deadly surge, increases in cases in 43 state including the district of columbia. 33 million californians are entering in lockdown to try and slow the president. on "meet the press" sunday

dr. deborah birx issued this dire warning. >> this fall/winter surge is combining everything that we saw in the spring with everything that we saw in the summer. i think that's why dr. redfield made this absolute appeal to the american people. this is not just the worst public health event. this is the worst event that this country will face. not just from a public health side. >> nbc news mike memoli joins us from wilmington, delaware. mike, some heavy hitters joining biden's pandemic response team. interestingly, javier bettcerra led president obama's health care. he's not a doctor. some would argue it should be someone with medical experience at hhs at this particular time? >> reporter: yeah, andrea, we're already seeing pushback from republicans. and the senate will, of course, have to vote to confirm becerra to this position if he it to

serve as the secretary. think, andrea, what we've seen so far from the biden team as they've announced other cabinet secretaries, highlighting experience and expertise most often in the very agencies they're being asked to lead. you have the return of the deputies with tony blinken at state. and ali mayorkas at state. and janet yellen with considerable experience. becerra did represent experience. the biden is focusing, one, of course, 12 terms in the house, he was part of the group that passed the affordable care act. he was on the ways and means committee and serving on the health subcommittee 6 that committee as well. but more recently as the california attorney general as he helped, as you said, helped lead the fight to defend the affordable care act. led a groups of attorneys general and in the trump station, to trying to undercut

that law. but the biden team pointing to other things to the fact that he led a suit against one of the biggest hospital chains in california to try to lower prices. so they're saying it's a different kind of experience, yes, than some of these other cabinet secretaries but it's certainly experience relevant to the position. especially when you look at diversity as weapon. he'll be the first latino to head this department and we know the pressure is building on the biden team to increasingly increase the ranks as secretary in a cabinet. >> and there's also news about this white house vaccine summit tomorrow and how tell relates to the biden team. >> reporter: yeah, that's right, andrea. as you've mentioned, we're going to see biden announcing the members of this health team tomorrow. it's going to be an interesting split screen moment. because we know the white house is holding that vaccine summit there. and i'm told by a transition official on the biden side that they were not invited to participate. so, think about what we're going to see. leiden laying out the team that's going to be inheriting

this task. and on the trump end, what many see as an effort by the president to try to claim credit for the vaccine, not wanting any biden official to be part of this at all. >> interesting point and counterpoint. mike memoli, thank you from wilmington, delaware. joining me now dr. michael osterholm, and a covid analyst for the biden team. doctor, thank you for being with us. >> thank you. >> let's talk about the covid vaccine, as the demand is going to far outpace the availability. we know the general guidelines recommended i guess it's up to the states, whether they file based on their needs. but how dowel mado how do you m decisions and how should joe

biden make decisions and people disproportionately affected, underserved, nursing home residents nursing home staff, other elderly people. who gets it first? >> thank you, andrea. let me say at the outset, we have two simultaneous events happening. one is there are going to be early adopters that want the vaccine. they want it now, and frankly, we want to get it to them. then you're going to have the second group which are basically the people who are reluctant to get the vaccine which could be a sizable number. we're seeing surveys 30% to 35% of physicians, nurses, people in the most impacted communities. that basically are not willing to take the vaccine out of concerns. so, i think we have to simultaneously work on making sure we get the vaccine to those people who are most likely to have serious outcomes or the front line health care workers. that's the recommendations we

have now. once we get beyond that, it's not just offering the vaccine, but we need a major thaefrt hef has not happened yesterday, to educate, to tell them why they're effective. that's our job. if we don't do that, i'm afraid we're going to be sitting here one day with a vaccine that nobody is going to want to take. >> with the pfizer vaccine, it's perishable that i think lasts only a few days after you open it. and a shot within 21 days, of cour course, the subfreezing storage. how does that work? and you don't have enough for all health care workers even if you started with that cohort? >> we do have a challenge delivering all of the vaccines. they are complicated, at best, including the pfizer vaccine. that is the last mile of the vaccine story. meaning we've done this incredible work to get the vaccines where they are now but how do we get them to stay in

local health care departments, providers, and how they're going to work. contrary to belief, that system is is not nearly as ready as people like to stake. i like to take it one step further and saying we have the last inch challenge. that last inch is critical, does that needle go into someone's arm or not? we need a comprehensive plain. state and local health departments have not had the resources from the federal government to plan for this in a way that lets them carry out what they need to do. we still have lots of questions about how this will happen. i worry that we'll have successfully brought forward effective and safe vaccines, and at best, we're only going to have some use of them. again, i come back to the fact that, yes, you're right, early on, we're going to have more people who want the vaccine that is available. but in the end, the real impact on the society is going to be getting those 45% to 50% of the population that are hesitant to take the vaccine ready to take it. and right now, they're not.

>> the uk is goes to begin administering the pfizer vaccine is this week. some tomorrow. and queen elizabeth is apparently could be one of the first and prince philip who is 99 years old. here we see the queen last week meeting virtually, she was accepting the credentials from incoming ambassadors and doing it via zoom which shows how she's adjusted to the times. it might not be privilege but good modelling to have her and her 99-year-old husband, she's 94, to be among the first to take the vaccine to show how safe it is. >> i agree. i think the fact the former u.s. presidents and the incoming president have also indicated that they, too, would take the vaccine in a very public show of support is really important. now, we need other leaders to step up from the impacted communities from the black, indigenous and communities of

color, from those who are elected officials, from those who are medical leaders. these are the people we need now to have stand up with the appropriate data, they deserve to have all all of the safety and efficacy data and have them model this. i can't wait to get my vaccine. i'm not going to jump in line ahead of anyone who has a higher need than i do in terms what they do in terms of work and serious disease, but i can't wait for me and my family to get these vaccines. this will make such a difference in everyday lives. >> dr. michael osterholm, as always, thank you so much for being with us today. >> thank you, andrea. and the president's trip to georgia over the weekend where he talked more about the election he lost and claims he won, rather than the elections which could swing the balance of power in the senate. you're watching "andrea mitchell reports" only on msnbc. it's a new way to save up to 80%. and everyone can do it. it's from optum, a health care company that's trusted by millions of people.

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it was a whirlwind weekend in georgia politics with 29 days to until the runoff elections. on saturday, president trump rallied for the gop candidates, sort of it. talking about a rigged eid election. politics worry it could suppress more voters. the time spent more on his lost election than the senate races to come. then on sunday, georgia officials pushed back against the request of the president to call a special legislative session. a move that governor brian kemp

says is against the law. meanwhile, three of the four senate candidates took the stage in two debates. democrat jon ossoff facing it incumbent david perdue and raphael warnock with kelly loeffler. >> yes or no, did donald trump use -- >> you know, president trump has every right to use every resource available. >> she never answered. joining me now is nbc's blane alexander in georgia. where does the president go from here, as georgia republicans saying no to having a new legislative election to choose electors? >> well, andrea, to answer where the president goes from here, he really is running out of runway.

what you saw personal is just the fact that the latest results are going to be recertified. the results in the state of georgia are going to be recertified today. and three tallies of the presidential election vote here in the state of georgia, first in the audit after that and then the recount after that by the trump campaign. so the secretary of state here in georgia, a republican, earlier today talking about the fact that they will certify those results at the end of the day. take a look. >> we have now counted legally cast ballots three times. and the results remain unchanged. i know there are people that convinced the election was fraught with problems. but the evidence, the actual evidence, the facts, tell us a different story. >> so, andrea, that's the first hit to the president. the second came in just the past two hours or so where the judge

threw out yet another challenge to the presidential election here in georgia. and then finally, you see the high-profile republican leaders here in georgia, the governor, lieutenant governor, backed up by the attorney general all saying that they will not call a special legislative session, not only saying that they won't do it, but that they're not. >> thanks so much. and the mystery, over the past several years, american diplomats and cia officers have been getting sick overseas. now, w shg, we may finally know least some of them have been suffering. this is "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. for drug free relief that works fast. vicks sinex. instantly clear everday congestion.

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they can show us just how much they care. the first steps of checking in, the smallest moments can end up being everything. there's resources that can inform us, and that spark can make a difference. when we use it to improve things, then that change can last within us. when we understand what's possible, we won't settle for less. the best thing we can be is striving to be at our best. managing heart failure starts now with understanding. call today or go online to understandhf.com for a free hf handbook. we see dozens of diplomats around the world have been sickened by serious symptoms and sometimes, traumatic brain injuries that can be permanent. after years of studies, experts

at the national academy of sciences believe what is the most likely cause of these. direct post microwave injury. and east asia has reported disabling ailments. one leading scientist said a russian-made weapon could be the blame. he spent decades in the cia as a covert operative, in afghanistan, iraq. one night, 2017, unlike any other. >> i think about the times i was shot at. this is by far the scariest time of my life. >> at the time, the number two cia director throughout europe woke up suddenly in the middle of the night with a sense of vertigo. >> i was falling over in my room. i thought i was going to vomit. i was incredibly nauseous. i had incredible ringing in my

ears. >> the episode just the start of debilitating symptoms that upended his life. he said similar to scores of other cases reported by american diplomats and spies that began in 2016 in havana. then hit american officials in china and have since been reported by cia officers in several other countries. what could be the cause? after a year-wrong investigation, 19 top experts from the national academics of sciences conclude the most likely explanation directed, pulsed microwave energy, consistent with a directed radio frequency energy attack. >> this is not a cell phone. this is not what you see from a microwave oven. this is a very particular and unusual way of delivering microwave energy. >> stanford professor of medicine david wellman chaired the study. >> we have neurologists on our committee that said afterwards, in my entire career of reading about countless hundreds and thousands of cases of newer

logic injury, i've never heard of something like this. >> this is really unique in the medical literature. >> it is. >> januaine shaheen to be fightg for medical benefits. >> i fear we're going to see more attacks in the future, and we need to be prepared for them. >> and what countries have developed this kind of technology in the past. >> well, we know russia has it. >> russia has denied any involvement in the incidents. the state department kept the report secret for months, even from congress until a bipartisan group of senators demanded to see. the state september ace the investigation is ongoing. and each is speculative. not to mark suffering debilitating migraines for of the last three years. why would the russians want to target you? >> i was in charge, one of the several officers in charge of overseeing efforts against them.

>> reluctantly after 23 years in the cia, he resigned last year at the age of 50. >> i would like to see who did this. i'd like to see a robust investigation by our intelligence services and others certainly to see who is culpable. the russians probably are the prime suspect. but we can't allow anybody who's doing this to continue on. >> and joining me now, my colleague nbc news national security correspondent ken delanian who did so much reporting on this. especially the cia officials working overseas in a number of places. and the strange coincidence about where the cia has found russian agents to specialize in this microwave technology. tell me about that. >> yes, that's right, andrea. cia analysts working with cell phone location data determined that some russian intelligence agents who had experience working on the microwave energy

programs and the russians have been working on these for decades, some of them popped up in cities and times of the attacks. that's not a definitive slam dunk case to bring the court. that's intelligence suggesting that further investigation is merited. it's not sure what others are doing. . people are concerned that the agency hasn't been taking it as seriously as it might. i have to say, such a great piece you did with mark, who i've known for some time. he's been familiar with the cia working with national security reporters, i've got to say i didn't know until very recently that he was suffering the way he is with daily migraines because he's an upbeat person. he's a highly regarded figure at the cia in the community of retired officers is really bringing a greater level of attention on this problem, andrea. >> we certainly hope so.

there's a lot more work to be done on this. ken dilanian. >> thank you. >> coming up next, madam secretary, why there's a push for president-elect biden to nominate a woman as the next secretary of defense. you're watching "andrea mitchell reports." of course, stay with us. this is msnbc. in fact, tremfya® was proven superior to humira® in providing significantly clearer skin. serious allergic reactions may occur. tremfya® may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms or if you had a vaccine or plan to. tremfya®. uncover clearer skin that can last. janssen can help you explore cost support options. the annual enrollment period is here. the time to choose your coverage... begins october 15th and ends december 7th. so call unitedhealthcare... and take advantage of a wide choice of plans... including an aarp medicare advantage plan

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president-elect joe biden is under increasing pressure from civil rights groups and plaque members of congress to appoint a black person as defense secretary. despite choosing women for treasure are treasury secretary. he's not chose an black person for any of the top four cabinet posts. >> the other two positions, do you think he needs to nominate a black american for at least one of the roles? >> yes. i think it would be great if he did, and for defense secretary there's two individuals that the congressional black caucus would like to put forward. >> there's also a lot of pressure to have a woman in the pentagon. particularly prominent official who is white in the new york times former senior official rosa brooks wrote a column entitled it's time for a woman

to run the defense department. joining me now, we are going to talk about the case for having a woman rather than someone who is diverse. unless you're suggesting a black woman, but in particular, michelle florna. >> thank you for having me. i would say several things. first, i think she's the strongest candidate, period. that's not about gender or race. it's just about being the person who has the deepest and broadest defense experience at this point. i think so much damage has been done to the defense department by trump, frankly, that this is a moment where we really desperately need someone who can come in and hit the ground running the way she could in a unique way, i think. but yeah, second, i do think it's symbolically packing an important punch to have a woman at the defense department more than it does to have a woman at any other federal agency.

i think biden's initial appointments have been fantastic and showcased talent and diversity. what makes dod different is it's the one federal agency that completely legally discriminated on the basis of sex until a few short years ago. and even long after it ended at the defense department, it continued on the basis of sex. i think it packs a symbolic punch to say the largest federal agency that has thrown completely legal roadblocks in the way of women's advancement for so long is finally having a woman at the helm. it's powerful. >> and that legal restriction, was that the 2 % rule, the quota system for women? >> yeah. that's part of it. that's a big part of it. 1948, ironically, the very same year that president truman signs an executive order ending racial discrimination in the military, congress passes legislation

capping the number of women in the military at 2%. that doesn't get changed until the 1970s. we got the first african american four-star general in 1975. the first african american chairman of the joint chiefs of staff in 1989 that was collin powell, of course. it took until 2008 to get the first female four-star general, and only in 2015 did secretary of defense panetta lift the so-called combat exclusion rule which prohibited women from serving in specified combat rules. that spills over to the civilian work force for women at the defense department not only is it harder to become a senior military leader if you haven't been in combat, which hurt women, obviously, for a long time. but in a department where the civilian work force is about half former military, a lot of those same norms and values hold over in the civilian work force. we also obviously have and continued to have veteran preference in hiring at agencies

which has meant it's harder for civilian women to advance as much as civilian men in the dod work force. that spillover from the legalized discrimination in the military to the civilian work force. >> we're going to have to leave it there. this is going to be decided by one person, joe biden, but it's clearly a tough decision he's about to make. thank you, rosa. >> absolutely. >> thank you. that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchel reports". follow us online, on facebook and twitter. tune in tomorrow. rachel maddow will be here with her new book. it is incredible. "bag man". chronicling the crimes in the white house. kasie hunt is in for chuck todd right here on msnbc. right here . another bundle in the books. got to hand it to you, jamie. your knowledge of victorian architecture really paid off this time.

nah, just got lucky. so did the thompsons. that faulty wiring could've cost them a lot more than the mudroom. thankfully they bundled their motorcycle with their home and auto. they're protected 24/7. mm. what do you say? one more game of backgammon? [ chuckles ] not on your life. [ laughs ] ♪ when the lights go down

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if it's monday, the co-vid crisis is still spiraling out of control. cases keep rising. the number of available icu beds keeps falling. and health officials keep warning it's going to get even worse. plus president-elect biden officially names his team tasked with handling the pandemic as president trump continues ignoring the crisis and focusing on his grievances. and is help finally on the way from congress? after months of de