hi there, everyone. it is 4:00 in the east. joe biden is trying to staff up an administration to restore economic vitality, reboot america's role on the world stage, work to win the war against the coronavirus. the republican party has declared war on you, regardless of who you voted for, the gop is at war against that vote. not just against your vote but against your neighbor's vote, your mom's vote, your neighbor's mom's vote. basically anyone that voted in the 2020 election is under attack by the entire republican party which is now enabling and facilitating donald trump's war against the election result. an election that was described

as this, the most secure election in the history of this country by chris krebs, lifelong republican charged with securing the vote. "the washington post" reporting over the weekend only 27 republicans have acknowledged the fact of the election result, indisputed fact. post writes that the results of the survey demonstrate the fear most republicans have of the outgoing president and his grip on the party, despite his new status as just the third elected president to lose re-election in the past 80 years. more than 70% of republican lawmakers did not acknowledge the post questions as of friday evening. that's about 220 republicans in all. the 220 elected officials will have blood on their hands if any harm comes to the local and statewide office holders now receiving death threats from trump supporters who believe donald trump's lies. two of the gop officials under the most brutal assault by trump and his voters, georgia

secretary of state, brad raffensperger, and georgia election official gabriel sterling. they held a news conference today to recertify joe biden's win in their state. they both offered strident rebukes of the disinformation war being waged by donald trump, including striking back against a video that trump's attorneys tried to offer as evidence of fraud. what they alleged were secret suitcases filled with ballots counted without supervision, and you guessed it, there were no secret suitcases. watch. >> the secret suitcases, magic ballots were actually ballots packed into those absentee ballot carriers by workers in plain view of the monitors and the press. and what's really frustrating is the president's attorneys had the same videotape. they saw the exact same thing as the rest of us could see and chose to mislead state senators and the public about what was on

that video. >> i know there are people convinced the election was fraught with problems, but the evidence, the actual evidence, the facts tell us a different story. >> those officials speaking out today against a tidal wave of disinformation main lined into citizens of their state over the weekend by donald trump. from "new york times," quote, before president trump arrived on saturday to rally for two republican senate candidates, the president made no attempt to disguise his central priority as it relates to georgia. overturning his loss in the state. he began the day with a telephone call with governor brian kemp, ostensibly to offer condolences about death in a car accident close to mr. kemp's family. in truth, mr. trump used the call to urge mr. kemp, a republican, to call the state legislature into session so the republican majorities could appoint new electors who would subvert the will of the state's

voters when the electoral college meets december 14th. pressure on kemp which he roundly and repeatedly rebuffed comes as mr. trump super tuesday a -- stews and brews in the west wring. ris rage and detached from reality refusal to concede defeat evoke images of a besieged overlord in some distant land. the gop war on the american election result is where we start with some of our favorite reporters and friends. former missouri senator claire mccaskill is back, and peter baker, "new york times" chief white house correspondent. and sam stein, politics editor at the "daily beast." lucky for us, all msnbc contributors. claire, i want to start with you. when i read peter's reporting and the other great reporting in

all the papers this weekend, especially "the washington post" count, putting numbers and names to all of the republicans, green lighting and enabling donald trump's war against this result, donald trump's war against republican and local election officials, secretaries of state and governors, it is clear they have made a choice not to protect the integrity of the vote and therefore not to protect our democracy. what are the lasting effects of that? it strikes me that at this point trump is as peter writes about to fade into oblivion. the republicans that enable this still today, 4:00 on monday, they should have to somehow come to terms with what they're doing now, no? >> well, here's the bottom line. here's the dirty little secret. their default language has been the president has a right to pursue legal recourse to ensure

that every vote was legal and that illegal votes are not counted. okay, that might have been fine the week after the election. this legal team, aka the clown card incompetence has lost close to 50 cases in a month in court. i'm not sure that's ever happened before in the history of a planet that a legal team lost 50 cases in a month because they have no evidence. now only one truth remains, this isn't about legal recourse at this point, the president is encouraging illegal recourse. he is asking elected officials to break the law. and republicans still stand silent. so what they're doing is saying we're all in for one goal and one goal only and that is this president wants to convince millions of americans that we don't have fair and free elections. and that is disgusting. >> it is disgusting and it is dangerous. sam stein, if you're an american

who believes what donald trump says and you think the election was stolen, you might be inspired to do something heinous like this. this is trump supporters outside the home of michigan secretary of state, joslyn benson. i think we have the video. she said they were armed. let's listen. >> stop the steal. stop the steal. >> you have to start listening. >> they're chanting stop the steal, sam stein, something they chanted at saturday's rally. i guess that's the new lock her up. she says she and her son were sitting down to watch "how the grinch stole christmas" when this mob gathered outside her home. where are we, sam stein? >> well, so there's two sort of threads of thought here. one is that this will burn itself out, you need to let trump and his followers get this

out of their system. the other thought is that this is scary stuff not just because of the long term implications that this has for our democratic process, democracy at large, also because all it takes is one sociopath to turn protests like that into something much more drastic. we already know there was a plot to kidnap the michigan governor. we have seen trump fans target members of the media with pipe bombs. we have had multiple cases of trump fans threatening violence. you can see a future in which that gets even further escalated if the president keeps going on this path. and i guess the only thing i would quibble with is there's no sense that i can pick up that trump is going to fade into oblivion which makes this even more scary. in fact, what i can ascertain through our reporting is that it is the opposite, he is actively

plotting a proactive run for the white house in 2024 with events he may time around the joe biden inauguration. his fundraising apparatus isn't slowing down, if anything, it is picking up steam. the solicitations he is putting out, his campaign is putting out sometimes six times a day raised $250 million in the past month. he is building even more comprehensive email lists through selling of things like calendars and christmas invitations so he is building the infrastructure to make sure that he can remain a fixture on our political scene, and if he continues to practice his politics of grievance, continues to argue he was unfairly denied a second term, if his people believe it, then you can see this not as the end result but kindling for something even worse. >> i take sam stein's correction

there. i think oblivion is a fantasy, not a reality. peter baker, your great piece also includes this. while he will leave office in 46 days, the last few weeks may only foreshadow what he will be like after he departs. he will try to shape the conversation from his estate in florida and relentless campaign could undercut his successor, president-elect joe biden. many republicans would like to move on, he appears intent on forcing them to remain in tlald in his neat for vindication and vilification even after his term expires. take that with your description of him, others called him a mad king, he is this deposed despite and sounds out of his freaking mind, peter, but based on your reporting in that piece. if you tie together what claire said about the republicans basically being paralyzed by his bullying, what sam says, he is not fading into oblivion anytime

soon, take the portrait you painted, what does that leave the incoming administration to contend with? >> well, i think you see a president-elect biden trying to basically ignore it almost, trying to focus on putting his administration, focus on a need to distribute the vaccine, once he comes into office, focus on what he will do during his presidency, rather than reacting every day to president trump. i think that's meant to sort of signal we're going to move on, he may not go into oblivion, but we can try to ignore him as best we can. the problem for president-elect biden and the problem for even republicans who would like to move on is as you point out, president trump doesn't plan to let them simply ignore him, he will have a big bull horn in a way no defeated president has had really in american history, maybe with the possible exception of teddy roosevelt who came back and ran four years later. hard to think of anybody that has the sort of ability to

command the public stage the way president trump does. will he be able to do it quite the same way without benefit of the white house as his stage? no. but he has ways of getting past the filter of speaking directly to his supporters through his twitter account, through sympathetic media, may start his own media company of some sort. he will not simply disappear. i think that's a big challenge both for the incoming president and i think the republican party that would like to develop the next generation of leadership, all of whom are frozen to some extent while they wait to see what he ends up doing and saying about 2024. >> peter, let me follow-up. i think there's a category of his antics, stupid human tricks, dumb stuff he does. no one would pay attention. this is a war on the election result and the reason this is something as your write wrote, we cannot avert our gaze now. now is when he is most dangerous

not just to the president-elect or people who have been his critics, but to everyone that voted. he is trying to eradicate the entire 2020 election result and republicans are standing by if not applauding then looking the other way when armed mobs end up outside the homes of statewide office holders who had anything to do with certifying the result. and i guess my question, peter, is at what point does your coverage of him have to make choices and all of the coverage over the weekend of call to brian kemp which was under this ruse of being a sympathy call, it was really to ask him to appoint electorates to overturn the georgia vote. how much of this is he getting away with because people aren't paying as much attention as when he was not a lame duck. >> do you pay attention when it

is flailing out there and isn't going to result in change in the election, yet it is important, it is important to talk about. this is a president that spent four years shattering norms, crossing boundaries we thought existed in washington. his supporters like that. he promised to do that, promised to be a disruptive force. the institutions of our government, our democracy, this has been a stressful period, big stress test. nothing bigger stress test than we're seeing now, legitimacy of the election called into question. polls show many supporters believe something crooked happened because he said so, even though as you point out close to 50 court cases have been dropped or dismissed because there's no evidence of what he is saying. the mere fact he says it is enough to create doubt and create crisis of faith on the part of some americans in their own system, and that's important and we have to pay attention to that. i think that's very important. there's a lasting legacy that

goes beyond even himself and joe biden, if people lose faith in the democracy, then where are we at, if they don't think elections are free and fair, we are like our countries around the world. >> this is where president obama writing about, talking about truth decay is spot on. how does anyone, a democratic president or republican president, lead a country when half of it doesn't agree on a set of facts. and it is rearing its ugly head, it is not going to go away if we stop covering trump's stupid human tricks. you have an anti-vaccinationxxe testifying in the senate. you have them defying state officials in new york state. it is happening all over the country, defiance of the truth which in their minds maybe is the defiance of the left or the

elite. i think it makes the country ungovernable. >> yeah. and by the way, the right making a hero of a guy who literally tried to rundown a member of law enforcement, the man went up over his hood as he hit him and struck him with his car. this is the same group of people that supposedly is all about supporting law enforcement. it is so nonsensical. and this area, this fact you're talking about, and it is a fact that we have lost a firm grip on what the facts are and what truth is, that is where i place the most blame on my former republican colleagues. and for this simple reason. the way you fix this is by people of both parties saying enough. enough. you could isolate donald trump, make him less relevant in terms of him destroying the norm of a

free and fair election if people of both parties of goodwill had the courage to say that's just not what the facts are. those aren't secret suitcases of ballots, they were opened in front of everyone including the news media. what are you doing. the fact they're so afraid of his base on a political basis is more damaging to the future of this country than frankly the antics of donald trump. >> sam stein, i'm going to ask you to end with what do we do, but i guess the first thing i want you to speak to is how at this moment when rudy, the depiction of rudy on "snl" with flat lens is indiscernable of rudy in a courtroom. how does that take down a once if not noble political party. this is not trump at his best, this is trump at his most absurd, debased, and mitch

mcconnell, rob portman, richard bur, people when i worked in republican politics, you may disagree with what they believed in but they were adults and they saw the sun come up in the morning, saw the sun go down at night, they're living in fact free trump landia. that's number one. and number two, what does the solution look like, where does it start? >> glad you saved the rudy flat lens question for me. i am a little more dignified for that question than a former elected official. i think the problem here is i think to simplify a little too much is incentive structures, what is the incentive structure for a sitting republican lawmaker to in essence tell the truth or do the right thing, protect democracy. usually we wouldn't have these questions because incentive

structures were so obvious, but in a day where you have a huge amount of disinformation and misinformation flying about, where you have someone who as demagogue as he is, is talented whipping up a fervent base, donald trump, you have created perverse incentive structures. in which normally, sane, rational republicans don't feel it is in their self interest to do that. and honestly, if i had the answer how you could convince them it was in their self interest, i probably wouldn't be on the show. i would be doing something different. so yeah, it is a complicated situation. i will say one other thing. scary to think what would have happened if a few elected republican officials didn't have the integrity they did. if you had a secretary of state

in georgia that did feel there was incentive structure to stand up to misinformation, what would the information be now? it would be more tense i think. our system has been stress tested and may have passed but i don't think we should take any solace in this because it became, it is awfully close from being in a much worse place than it is now. >> let me follow-up with you. i thought that in the spirit of still covering the president, i think he is most dangerous to us now, i watched his rally saturday night and we watched it and i thought if he could have stolen this, he would have. he didn't have any intention of winning fair and square, not sure he had intention of winning at the ballot box. his intention was to muscle and strong-arm state election official to eek out recounts, pressure election dooors when t

came to certify the vote. sam, with that so clear, that just adds to my rage and bewilderment that republicans won't stand up and say this got way too close for comfort. this is our system. we all have to protect it. i swear, if republicans rebuked him as forcefully as claire and former democratic colleagues in the senate, he would go away more quickly than he is going to. they are changing the arc of this presidency, of the biden presidency, changing the arc of the united states senate. i don't know how any of them stand up and object to what biden does if 27 people between the house and senate acknowledged his victory, do you? >> no. but i fully expect they're going to oppose biden in ways they never would have opposed trump. there's already talk, and this is just one example, of neera tanden being ill fit because she

sent mean tweets. i mean, what have we been living in the past four years, never ending stream of mean tweets. >> cyber bullying chief. >> yeah. standards change when power changes. i guess the only thing that possibly could come out of this to be constructive would be if a host of people across the political aisles were committed to the idea of sort of rebuffing our democratic institutions and systems, making it so voting wasn't just restricted but transparent, doing the lower d democratic reforms that obviously are still needed, but i don't see that happening anytime soon. >> sam stein, peter baker, stunning piece of reporting from the weekend. thank you both for starting us off. claire is sticking around for more. when we come back, president-elect joe biden today saying he has a team ready on day one to implement a full and complete and consistent and fact based government response to the

deadly and growing pandemic. despite continued efforts by the trump administration to make his work more difficult. team biden's work wasn't hard enough, add a republican senate and witness skeptical of vaccines to testify publicly about the coronavirus. and head down to georgia to cover last night. don't go anywhere. just getting started. ♪ don't go anywhere. just getting started the usual gifts are just not going to cut it.

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president-elect joe biden has unveiled his picks for the top roles on his health team,

always important. even more so during a pandemic. it includes a number of familiar faces like california's attorney general, xavier becerra as secretary of health and human services, he will work on tackling the pandemic and protecting the affordable care act, which he has been fighting for as the state ag when he was a member of congress. dr. murphy, surgeon general under president obama, returning to that role, and dr. anthony fauci will be chief medical adviser to president-elect biden on covid-19. he will also continue in his role as director of the national institute of allergy and infectious disease. as the country awaits approval of a coronavirus vaccine during a surge, the trump white house has not invited anyone from the biden transition team to tomorrow's operation warp speed vaccine summit. trump tries to take full credit for fast tracking the effort to create, approve, distribute a vaccine.

the white house did not respond to request for comment. joining the conversation, dr. gupta, msnbc medical contributor, and claire is still here. dr. gupta, talk about the team and the difference that it will make to have a president pushing in the same direction as scientists and medical advisers with a shared goal of stopping the spread and scaling vaccine distribution. we haven't had that, have we? >> we haven't. good afternoon, nicolle. this is the time of team we needed since march, since the pandemic began, a team that will provide actionable voice to the american people. so they don't necessarily always have to get it through media, we can amplify their good words, not always counter with disinformation. that will be number one. number two, it is vital we have

an all hands on deck, whole of society approach to tackling vaccine communication because what we're seeing from at least the uk and product insert that came with the vaccine, once the vaccine went commercial last week is that there are side effects, mild side effects, like potential body aches, fatigue, common things you get with flu vaccine, messaging that if you got the first dose, still have to get a second dose, has to come from trusted, gifted communicators. that's the people that were appointed today. >> dr. gupta, what's going on with the vaccine. there was some reporting over the weekend that operation warp speed wasn't going to be able to, i don't know what the right word is, procure or have for the united states of america as many doses as they had once promised or hoped. what's behind sort of the allocation from a company like pfizer or moderna of vaccines to

different countries? >> well, in the case of take astra-zeneca, for example, astra-zeneca is part of something called covax, an acronym that represents a broader alliance, large effort, 140 companies basically have some type of vaccine candidate in the pipeline, varying stages. this is a program managed by world health organization. most countries in the world, we are a notable exception, signed on to support this effort. so astra-zeneca is saying the united states, you have to get in line, you'll get some of the vaccine since we helped accelerate development, we're not entitled to the supply. basically there's going to be global distribution, quality and equity of distribution. we are not just the only country to get access. but nicolle, we are not having

rationing of vaccines come march, come end of q1. that's when we expect multiple candidate vaccines to be in the pipeline. we're going to be able to focus on who gets what type of vaccine, not is there a vaccine. >> claire, you look at this new team and even if over the years republicans have had any policy disagreements with him, i think of the new incoming hhs secretary, i believe he's been on the tip of the speer fighting to protect obamacare since trump became president. they're all tested. none of them are people that joe biden saw on television and picked, they're people with proven track records. it seems as all of president-elect biden's appointees, ones in charge of stamping out the global pandemic because of the inability to share a set of facts as we were

talking about is probably among the most important. >> yeah. let's look at just the issue of masks. the cdc yesterday for the very first time recommended that everyone should wear a mask when not at home at all times. the motion that that is coming right now as opposed to months and months ago all sits on the desk of donald trump. dr. birx, you know, i think we all when watching someone else be interviewed can think of a question which may be as unfair to chuck todd, i kept thinking of the question as she was being interviewed, why are you getting interviewed in a mask for the first time? why are you wearing a mask now and when repeatedly when you came out to states, you were talking at podiums sometimes without a mask on or when you were interviewed. i am not saying she had to wear one while being interviewed, but it was notable she finally had one on. this team is going to have a lot

of expertise. if you look at each member of the team, they each have a specialty. jeff signs understands how to deal with complex subject matter, get everybody working together. i saw him doing it effectively in the obama administration. and dr. smith, her specialty is the fact that we have inequality in health care. the notion that joe biden has elevated somebody with that expertise, that's his recognition that we have so far to go in terms of making health care equally accessible to everybody in this country, no matter who you are. >> you know, claire, i was thinking of just that, the idea of inequality when i watched our colleague steph ruhle back after fighting covid for two weeks, and she gave anyone that hasn't

seen it should watch, she gave a six minute -- she spoke honestly about the failures of the government, that isolating is for the privileged few. isolating after you have covid is not something you can do if your family won't eat if you miss two weeks of work or three if it takes that long to test negative for covid. so claire, i think that there's some sort of, i don't know, trauma muscle memory of the last four years, but to have a health team that's actually, one, trying to protect us all from covid, trying to put the government on the side of helping those of us that are inspired to keep our communities and families and people in our own orbit safe from covid would be a big change, and three, with trump's picks to the supreme court, many pieces of obamacare are probably in more danger than ever before, if republicans hold the senate, that will also be true. talk about xavier becerra's kind of unique ability to fight and

protect obamacare in that post. >> well, he has been at the tip of the speer trying to protect the affordable care act. he led the effort on the part of attorneys general in this country to defend the aca against the unprecedented assault of every republican elected official almost in the whole country, trying to wipe out protections that that law represents. he understands it, he obviously was part of working on it when he was in congress. i think he is exactly the right person to lead at this moment in terms of making sure that we improve with the biden plan, improve on promises of the aca, make it even better. it helps also that his wife is a doc. she's a highly respected perry anyway toll gist, specializes as

ob/gyn in births that are particularly problematic. and i think having her as somebody that's there looking over his shoulder as relates to running a very large, complex organization is an added bonus. >> claire mccaskill, always wonderful to get to spend time with you. thank you for starting us off. dr. gupta is sticking around a little while longer. still to come for us, rudy giuliani, he flew around the country this month promoting insane, largely debunked conspiracy theories, all the while refusing to wear a mask for most of us, asking others to do the same. well, now he tested positive for covid-19. and spreading disinformation and covid perhaps has been his jam. we will be right back. vid perham we will be rhtig back. i'm happy to give you the tour, i love doing it. hey jay. jay? charlotte! oh hi. he helped me set up my watch lists. oh, he's terrific. excellent tennis player. bye-bye. i recognize that voice. annie? yeah! she helped me find the right bonds for my income strategy.

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every state needs to be critically informing their state population that the gatherings that we saw at thanksgiving will lead to a surge. it will happen this week and next week. and we cannot go into the holiday season, christmas, hanukkah, kwanzaa, with the same kind of attitude that those gatherings don't apply to me. i am thrilled with the vaccine. but we won't have them for the most vulnerable americans until february, so we need to do this now. >> dr. birx is warning that we

are still very much in the middle of a deadly pandemic and still without a vaccine, with more than 14.8 million cases in this country, more than 283,000 lives lost. and the cdc is predicting up to 45,000 more americans could die by the end of this year. the biden team, needless to say, has a lot on their plate. add to that the responsibility to now heal an america where 74 million people voted for a man who spreads election disinformation and virus disinformation. we're not sure why. despite the real damage it has done to just about all of us. a gop led senate committee that invited a doctor with a history of opposing vaccine requirements to be the lead witness tomorrow in a homeland security committee hearing on early at home coronavirus treatments, while biden and public health officials try to convince the public taking the vaccine would be the best and only real solution to saving as many lives

as possible. joining the conversation, "new york times" political and investigative reporter and msnbc political analyst, and vin gupta is still here. it is on brand i suppose, nick, to have someone so controversial invited by the committee, by senate republicans who now don't seem embarrassed by trafficking in and pedaling in disinformation, especially when it came to trump and russia, but to have somebody like this at this crucial moment for the coronavirus vaccine, it is discovery, the government trying to bring it to the country, trying to vaccinate the population seems more than coincidental. what do you think is behind this? >> it is hard to imagine what the up side here is unless there are members of the committee that don't believe in vaccines, but it is striking that it is coming as responsibility for the vaccine and its distribution

will shift from republican president to democratic one. and let me tell you, in terms of misinformation and disinformation, the vaccine program will be the equivalent of a second presidential campaign. there are going to be fonts of misinformation about the vaccination on facebook and twitter, a community of groups that are deep and well organized on these platforms to combat the spread of the vaccine. it is a viral idea about a virus. it is poetic and sad. this is a really bad time to elevate a vaccine truther in this way. >> dr. gupta, i keep thinking about our country as sick. we have more people sick from coronavirus than any other country. we have more people blaefg a

flagrant lie, one that even republicans, statewide officials will not count about the election result and how it came to be. now the deadliest of all those may be disinformation with the intent to divide us like all of the other efforts nick described around what should be a medical marvel, a victory story. it is amazing pfizer and the other companies came up with a vaccine in nine months. instead of celebrating it, we're going to use it as another battlefield in which to war one another. >> nicolle, i think you're racing such a vital point here because what i have seen, even people that are very science, and colleagues of mine, because misinformation is right, because there's a climate that -- you're going to make individual decisions -- what i have noticed

is that -- it is not going to effect them or their families because there's this. [ audio issues ] >> we're going to work on your feed. we are having a hard time hearing you, don't want to miss anything. nick, let me come back to you and ask you if there's anything in the news you saw today, i mean, joe biden didn't just pick people who were qualified and experienced and sort of fresh in all of the policy debates, he picked people that are seasoned at the politics of washington. i wonder if you think that is, it is a sad reality that has to be another one of the job requirements, especially at a time of a national emergency, but i wonder if you think they'll need to turn to that skill set as well as expertise around policy. >> i think the important thing for the biden administration is to be proactive in thinking about the misinformation and the resistance around the vaccine.

think of it, nicole. we have a couple of intersecting forces. the first one is traditional anti-vax movement. president trump was an anti-vaxxer before he was president. on top of that, you have skepticism from nonanti-vaccination people that are skeptical at the speed in which it was provided, worried about involvement of the trump administration, that's coming from the other side. it is going to take a lot of hand holding at the public level, going to take a lot of transparency and openness to convince people that this drug is worth taking, the vaccine is worth taking. it is going to be a top priority of the incoming president and it is probably going to be helpful that people he is bringing in are not outliers, they're meat and potato democrats, public servants, no vaccine deniers or folks like that among them. it will be a marked challenge for this administration and it is going to be a first priority

i think. >>. >> and the bar is so low. rudy giuliani, one of the president's closest aides at the moment is the latest trump associate to come down with covid. we obviously hope his health recovers. it is possible he infected many people, dr. gupta, once he was contagious. the arizona legislature closed down after guiliani spent two days with maskless gop lawmakers. donald trump had other allies become sick after being in his orbit. i think close to three dozen folks, senior advisers and white house people, chris christie spent a week in the icu, herman cain died, and rudy giuliani caused arizona legislature to shut down. the recklessness is dangerous. it is everyone's business that they refuse to do the few things we can to protect ourselves from contracting covid. dr. gupta?

>> nicolle, it is yet another lesson, as though we needed it, if you skirt basic common sense, you'll get infected and be vulnerable to covid-19. everybody impacted in pennsylvania and arizona and elsewhere in d.c., you should isolate for the benefit of your own health and those of your loved ones. and please, i hope for all the viewers out there, take what happened to mr. guiliani, hope he is okay and recovering, as caution to the wind here, do not travel, don't think that you can test and mask your way into safe travel. you just cannot. even if you're doing all of the things we prescribe at home, don't think you can get away with safe travel. it is too dangerous right now. >> dr. gupta, we hang on your every word. i'm glad we got your wi-fi back online. it is frustrating when we can't hear from you. especially you too, nick. wonderful to hear from you both.

thank you for spending time with us. up next, despite georgia's republican election officials strongly rebutting claims, lies about a stolen election and having certified joe biden's victory again, donald trump supporters are considering skipping the upcoming senate runoffs. the outlooks for democrats from a reporter who knows next. know. let me tell you something,

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state that moment of crisis, is your senator feels entitled to your vote. your senator is refusing to answer questions and debate his opponent because he believes he shouldn't have to. he believes the senate seat belongs to him. the senate seat belongs to the people. >> an empty podium, that is what georgia candidate jon ossoff had to debate after david perdue decided, it wasn't worth it to show up. even trump showed up for his debates. meanwhile, in the second debate, kelly loeffler refused, given multiple opportunities, refused to concede that president trump had lost the election. in her debate against candidate rafael warnock, they have little room for error in their cases. the atlanta journal constitution reports trump's georgia supporters could be considering skipping the senate runoffs and with biden's tight 13,000 vote

win there, even the slightest dip in voter participation from either party could prove the difference. joining us now is someone who knows a lot more than we do about this. greg bluestein from the atlanta journal constitution. so you were all over the news and all of the news that was made this week in the political world was made in your state. let's start with the debate and move to other events and other officials but what was the strategy of not showing up? georgia voters like to see people go out there and work for the vote. >> yeah, even some conservative pundits this morning are questioning that strategy from senator perdue to skip the atlanta press club debate. i feel like his strategy is to talk mostly to conservative media outlets and to talk to the base and i think that he figured he had already had two debates in the general cycle and that he said his piece and that perhaps he was worried that johnosoff would have another viral moment. one of the moments in the last

debate with a local tv station down in savannah, had more than 14 million viewers on twitter on social media. >> wow! >> yeah. so i think he was concerned about having another one of those repeat moments like that. >> let me show you -- show our viewers a clip from the debate you moderated from loeffler and warnock. let's watch and talk about it on the other side. >> president trump opened his election rally last night by falsely claiming he won georgia. he didn't. he lost the state by about 12,000 votes. do you stand by his narrative that the election was rig and do you support his demand in a governor kemp to call a special session to seek to overturn the results. >> first i want to thank the atlanta press club for hosting this debate. this is vitally important that georgians trust our election process and the president has every right to every legal

recourse and that is what is taking place. >> so i want to show the rest of it. you went on and pressed her? f she thought it was rigged. let me show that as well. >> do you believe the election was rigged? >>, look, greg, it is clear there was issues in this election, there were 250 investigations open including an investigation into one of moy opponent's organizations. for voter fraud. and we have to make sure that georgians trust this process because of what is at stake in this election. >> i mean, how do you -- that is a lie. the attorney general of the united states said there are no investigations or allegations that would change the outcome of the election. you pressed her as well as anybody could. but how does that land? are there enough people who information extreme is tampered that she could get away with saying that there. >> i think there are. there are a significant number

of republicans in georgia who believe, if not they may not believe it is rigged in biden's favor but they believe there are problems that merit a deeper look despite election officials who are republican who repeatedly say that there is no evidence of any of this. there is no evidence of widespread fraud, there is no evidence of, you know, systemic irregularities and that is the problem she has right now. because the president is telling people that there is a rigged election, and that sends a mixed message to the voters she needed to come out not to bother. >> it is literally everything that is happening in american politics, is happening in your state and you're the most knowledgeable about all of them. i hope we could continue to call on you as we head up to the january 5th runoff and beyond. thank y thank you for spending time with us today. the next hour of "deadline:

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it's been a long 34 days since the election on november 3rd. we have now counted legally cast ballots three times. and the results remain unchanged. as secretary of state, i have worked to secure the vote for all georgians. on day one we outlawed ballot harvesting. we strengthened signature match through the gbi training and moved toward an audible paper ballot system. whether it is the president of the united states, or a field gubernatorial candidate, disinformation regarding election administration should be condemned and rejected. integrity matters, truth matters. >> hi, again, everyone.

it is 5:00 in the east. donald trump's war on our democracy is by far his most brazen and potentially dangerous act and it comes at a time when the krurncountry is desperate te on from him. his refusal to accept his defeat in an election most striking for absence of fraud, according to his own attorney general and former cybersecurity czar have real world consequences. here is one of them. an angry and armed mob outside of the home of michigan secretary of state jocelyn benson. she said she was finishing up decorating for christmas with her 4-year-old son and settling down to watch "how the grinch stole christmas" when trump supporters stole her sense of security in her own home. she issued a statement, through threats of violence and intimidation and bullying, the armed people outside of my home and their political allies seek to undermine and silence the will and voices of every voter in this state. no matter who they voted for.

that is your republican party, enabling threats like you just saw on your screen against an elected official who simply did her job. those republicans are doing that because they are so desperate for the votes of those armed protesters outside of her home. that is it. that is the whole story. no two sides any more. there are the rule of law, the local and state wide elected officials, democrats and republicans, whose lives are literally in danger because of donald trump's lies being amplified and excused by republicans and then there is the party fighting those mobs. that is it. georgia's lieutenant governor jeff duncan spoke about the security risk facing everyone who has come under attack because of trump's assault on the election result. >> absolutely, it disgusts me. all of us in this position have got increased security around us and our families and it is not american, it is not what democracy is all about. but it is reality right now.

and so we're going to continue to do our jobs. governor kemp, brad raffensberger all campaigned for the president but he didn't win the state of georgia but it doesn't change our job descriptions. >> our friends at the bulwark put it this way, now that trump is demanded that specific election officials break the law on his behalf, there will be a list of office holders, trump's people could mobilize against and that is the anger and is going to be channeled in the coming months. this despicable matt t pattern may cause georgia runoffs and make it awkward for all but 27 congressional republicans to debate any policies with the new biden administration. because in a stunning piece of reporting in "the washington post," more than 200 republicans in congress refuse to acknowledge joe biden's decisive victory. the threat to our democracy posed by the republican party is where we start this hour with

some of our most favorite reporters and friends. jim rootenberg, from "the new york times" is back. also joining us is elizabeth neumann at the department of homeland security, now an adviser to the republican political alliance for integrity and reform and charlie psychs is back, msnbc contributor and editor for the bulwark which has been putting out some unbelievable reporting and writing these days. let me start with you, charlie. there was something reminiscent in raffensperger there of colonel vindman who told his dad he would be okay because in america, right matters. you heard raffensperger say in teg rit still counts and my question for you, in the republican party, it is clear that it does not. >> no, it doesn't. and but this is the extra thing about colonel vindman which you saw from georgia, is that integrity requires courage in the republican party. these things should not be

controversial. it shouldn't be courage to call out the krazy or to tell the truth or certified elections but this is the republican party right now that if, in fact, you do your job, if you follow the law, if you tell the truth, if you honor the will of the voters, you're putting a target on your back. and i think that is one of the things that donald trump has done to this, to this political party and what makes it so dangerous, what you're seeing is that this kind of misinformation is spreading throughout the very toxic media environment, but the maybe vector of this toxic disinformation is the president of the united states himself. and as you've been saying for last hour, he's targeting the votes of millions of americans and he's targeting the integrity of our democratic system. so people should not think there is two sides to this story and people should not think there is anything remotely normal or

anything that we ought to be complacent about. >> jim rootenberg, you've been on the ground really reporting out the allegations of fraud and the truth of fraud, the false claim from trump, the fact check which comes not from investigative journalism as so many have come in the last four years but now from democrat and republican judges rebuking the farcical claims that rudy giuliani and the rest of whatever left of his team have been making. i want to show you something that gabriel sterling, a life long republican election official in georgia, said it wur colleague michael this morning on the daily. we'll talk about it on the other side. >> as you say republicans may be telling you privately they wish that they could say something but they aren't saying anything, so it doesn't feel like this speech had its intended effect. >> if did to a degree. they at least got out there and said yes of course we condemn violence. that is one thing.

and i've got more of my local elected state folks here believing what we're telling them. so, but i will say this, it shouldn't be a big deal for people to say what they think, in a way with integrity and have that suddenly be, wow, that is really strange and novel. >> who most of all do you hope heard you giving that speech? who would you like to imagine listening to it and would what would you like for it to have meant to them? >> honestly, there are hundreds of thousands of election workers around this country that pulled off this election. they need to know somebody is on their side and in their corner. >> you know, jim, the day that gabriel sterling gave those remarks andez right it shouldn't be such a big deal that he said what he said but it became big news for any republican to stand out and condemn what is becoming calls for violence and death threats against local election officials, a lot of which you've

covered over the last 30 days. what do you make of where this has all moved from court fightings to design help steal the election to death threats against local election officials? >> i mean, it is astounding and we've become amured to the way this president operates. but here is an instance where we're talking about is our democracy. so it is one thing, we wonder add lou the last few years how could democracy survive if people deon't agree on the fact that are true, now here it is our democracy itself that is on the wrong end of those attacks. and the people administering our democracy, the fact that these are now getting death threats, it is really, to me, among the most dangerous sort of disinformation storms we've had and we've had a lot, it has been quite the hurricane season for disinformation for the last four years. but this one is about something so fundamental and so kudos to

those election workers who stand up and kudos to jocelyn benson who said last night when there were armed protesters outside of her house and i will not stop doing my job and her job was done correctly, properly, the votes were counted as they should have been. >> jim, is there any doubt, any more that if he could have, donald trump would have stolen this election? >> absolutely not. he's doing something that, again, i personally was ready for anything from the president. i've been studying his moves in regard for months if not years, especially when it came to voting. but he is openly advocated to this very day for votes, the popular will to be thrown out. that is an open position. they're not in code. unbelievable. >> and elizabeth neumann, what

we're left with based on "new york times" all but 27 republicans are fine from w that. let me restate this. donald trump is still today right now trying to overturn the results of what chris krebs described as the most secure election in american history. that is a coup. and all but 27 republicans in congress are down with the coup. how does -- what is -- and let me put this to you, elizabeth, because you'll under the distinction. bill barr doesn't disagree with matt shlap on when it comes to the judiciary, but they're divided been truth and lies about the election. john bolton and rick grenell don't disagree about foreign policy, john bolton has like bill barr said there was no fraud in this election and they're on different tracks in terms of the truth of the election. liz cheney doesn't disagree on foreign policy, economic policy, obamacare with any of her house republican colleagues.

yet she is the one republican in leadership who has acknowledged the truth of the election result. liz cheney, john bolton, bill barr, right wing conservatives who now have nothing in common with today's republican party who do not recognize the result of the most secure election in our country's history. >> it's shocking. and not at the same time. because we've started to grown accustomed to the fact that the president is a bully. and we've seen a complete lack of backbone in the republican party to stand up to him. and when do you see somebody stand up like we saw in georgia and like we see in state and local officials, it becomes news worthy and remarkable that somebody is willing to speak the truth and walk their responsibilities out with integrity. that that used to be what the republican party was about. they clearly have given up on that. but there is a remnant and i

think from a remnant you can rebier rebuild and cast division for what the country should be about, but let me put this and i'll beat this drum again in hopes that more republican elected officials will hear this. this is not about your power, this is not about preserving the party, this is about the soul of the country and this is about lives being at risk. the game that donald trump and the people that are associating with him are playing is playing into our enemy's hands. this is exactly what russia and china want. they want chaos in our country. they don't have to work very hard because donald trump is doing it for them. this is what white nationalists want. they want a civil war so that the government could be over thrown and establish a white nation state. i'm not saying we're close to a civil war, but we are creating the environment for certain people with that mindset to accelerate that violence and

cause people to get hurt and maybe even killed. so this is not about your power, this is not about get re-elected, this is not about your name. this is about doing the right thing. so that somebody doesn't get hurt and somebody doesn't get killed. and if you could harken back to your oath, you swore an oath to the constitution, to keep our country safe. go back to why you did this in the first place and stand up to the bully. it is time to put a stop to him. >> you know, elizabeth, could you ever fathomed the republican party, i think, was increasingly out of step, it could not attract young voters, it could not attract diverse voters, it could not attract -- [ technical difficulties ] in a lack of broadness. could you ever imagined that it would co-sign this? i know a lot of republicans

still in the senate and house who like to go on coddels to talk about democracy and they love to travel to former soviet countries and they used to travel, lindsey graham is one of them. on what grounds could any republican ever travel anywhere including in this country and advocate or teach about democracy? >> you know, i think for many of them they're deceived. that he bought into a series of lies and there is a scripture reference to this idea of your conscience being seared and i think for many of them, they actually cannot see it. i think others know exactly that they've crossed the line and they struck a deal with the devil and maybe they feel a little bit of guilt but this is the only way out. as somebody that had to decide whether to speak out and risk getting criticized, risk potentially my family being put in harm's way, let me tell you, it is so much greater to be on the other side of freedom, to speak the truth and to have your

conscience clear and then being in a place where you might be a small minority, a remnant of people in the past called themselves republicans and have a conservative principaled view of how we should zbofgovern and looks like there is not a future for that voting block any time soon but would you much rather be in the place of what my principles and my faith teaches me and trying to do the best that i could starting in my own neighborhood and my own community and then potentially try to help at a national level. but i just, if there is anybody listening, if you're a staffer who works with one of the election officials, your conscious will feel so much better if you stop believing the lies, and shake off this deception and see this for what it is. you have been bullied and cowardly in that bullying. but it is not too late to do the

right thing. >> we'll do everything in my power to make sure that as much people as possible see what you just said. it is really important. charlie, i want to read you something that our friend a.b. writes today in the bulwark. what mitch mcconnell and company don't seem to understand is that this is the end game. the maga cult no longer sees democrats in the media as enemy number one. republicans who aren't legally permitted to deny reality are now the big threat. and if trump is going to spend the next two to four years at war with them. circular firing squads do serve a purpose, i guess if you are talking about the rotten in the republican party. but what does that look like? do you think this is really the next phase of the maga deevolution that they'll be at war with republicans who dare to tell the truth and do their job. >> it is the demented versus the diluted. the republican bought the

ticket. they're going to have to take the ride right now. and there was a moment at which the republicans could have bailed on donald trump when he -- when it was a month ago that joe biden was declared the victor. and they said well let's give them some time. let's give donald trump some time to think this through. they gave him space to become more deranged, to feed this fever out there. and now they are stuck with this. this is going to be the loyalty test, the litmus test going forward. if you want to be a viable republican candidate for president in the future, you have to believe donald trump's liesch you have to believe that this election was stolen, that joe biden is an illegitimate president. so this poison has been deeplyin jeked into the party, but as you pointed out, this is what they signed up for. not -- to say one thing about following up something that elizabe elizabeth said about the danger and the violence out there. >> please. >> i was struck by what was

happened in michigan yesterday, where you have armed protesters show upped up at the private home at the secretary of state. and you've seen this before in michigan. i'm a supporter of the second amendment but the point of people showing up to people's homes armed is to intimidate. but we're not at the worst point yet. because, and this is important for listeners to understand, there have a lot of people in the maga-verse, in trump land, who still honestly believe that donald trump will win this election. they do not understand that the election is over. and when reality strikes and they realize that donald trump is not going to be sworn in as president, it is going to come as a shock to them. we haven't reached that moment with some of the more deranged and diluted supporters out there. so there is going to come a moment which they will realize, wait, this election was stolen. donald trump is no longer in power. how will they react then? and how many of these sociopaths do you need to act out on this?

if they sincerely believe that this election has been stolen, that it is an act of fraud, and they are heavily armed, what possibly, what possible things could go wrong. it is a very, very scary scenario and i think we ought to be prepared for it and i do think that the politicians who are feeding into this, who are putting out the rhetoric and spreading the misinformation and giving oxygen to the various conspiracy theories, ought to be held accountable for what they are doing. but also i would hope that they would be thinking, okay, am i doing something that will lead to violence, will someone be hurt, will someone be killed because i am behaving so irresponsibly because it is dangerous now but i think it is going to get much more dangerous over the next few weeks. >> and you're absolutely right. and to that end, i watched trump's subpoena on saturday

night to understand what is making people in the numbers that we're seeing in the polls that we're seeing and the reporting that jim is doing and his colleagues say that they think the election is rigged and i'm not going to show trump but i just want to read you what he's telling his supporters because they weren't all born delusional. he saying because we're all victims, every here, all of these thousands of people here tonight they are all victims. every one of you. i want to stay on presidential but i got to get these, too, because they're incredible, because i guess that is the senators. i've probably worked harder in the last three weeks in my life than doing this. and the irony there is more than the time we have left in the program. in the middle of a pandemic he worked harder to over turn the election than he quote, ever worked in mis life to do this. and he said you have to know the

secretary of state knows what the hell he's doing and the governor gets tougher than he has been. jim, that is donald trump doing exactly what charlie sykes just warned he's doing. >> yeah, and it is gospel. he has -- we see it in poll after poll that he's the most credible source of information for his die hard, hard core followers. but here is my question to the rest of the party, is this the world they want to live with two years from now, four years from now and in the lower level races where the loser just against all reality could keep contesting and filing court case after court case. that is going to be a really damaging think for democracy if that is the wave of the future and they in her complicit are opening the door to that and it could be them next time and what are they going to say about the effects on democracy then? >> exactly. elizabeth newman and charlie

sykes, thank you to both of you for starting us off this hour. jim is sticking around. when we return, the trump campaign as bad record in fighting to overturn the election got a whole lot worse after judges in six states issued a flurry of legal rebukes against the trump campaign. that is next. plus our good friend rachel maddow is with us to talk about trump's assault on our democracy and the white house corruption scandal that she said looks kwants by compareson. plus the uk is getting ready to deliver the first doses of the coronavirus vaccine. here at home the vaccine roll out is coming up short. "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. don't go anywhere. seriously? one up the power of liquid, one up the toughest stains. any further questions? uh uh! one up the power of liquid with tide pods ultra oxi. with sweet potato fries. eating a falafel wrap (doorbell rings) thanks! splitsies?

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so much losing. donald trump and his allies suffering defeat after defeat, after defeat, after humiliation. today a judge for u.s. district court in georgia dismissed siddy powell's so-called cracken lawsuit. it was so cut and dry that the judge never took a recess to consider any arguments. and a federal judge in michigan rejected every aspect of a case centered around certification there. insisting, quote, that the people have spoken. that sort of blunt unambiguous language directed at team trump has been something of a theme in recent court opinions. for instance, the michigan court of appeals chastised the campaign last week saying they, quote, failed to follow clear law in michigan. a conservative justice for wisconsin supreme court said of

invalidating that state's election, this is a dangerous path we're being asked to tread. a district judge in nevada found the trump campaign so-called expert testimony, quote, was of little or no value at all. and in arizona, a county court judge said he found, quote, no misconduct, no fraud, and no effect on the outcome of the election. so if you're keeping score at home, according to an nbc news count, the trump campaign and other republican groups have now filed more than 50 cases across seven swing states and 35 cases have been denied, mississippidi withdrawn and no court has found a single instance of actual fraud. joining us, joyce vance and jim is still here. joyce, what is the collective voice of the courts telling us,

other than in each instance there is no evidence in the cases get thrown out. it seems like they're telling a larger story through all of these opinions. basically rebuking the effort. >> the republican party had one last chance in this post-election conundrum to choose country over party. and they have stuck with trump. but in the courts it is a different story. we're seeing these judges painstakingly and meticulously rejecting the president's cases. and, nicolle, i think that is for this very simple reason. trump and his allies aren't filing these cases because they believe he won the election. they're not trying to reverse the results in any meaningful way. what they're seeking to do is to undermine the integrity of our elections. to cast doubt in the minds of so many american people that the future of our elections is really in doubt. and when you stop to think about

that, there is no doubt that that is reprehensible. the judiciary understands what is going on and so we see the judges in cases that you have referenced, judge parker in michigan, the federal district judge, who dismissed the allegations and said that they were nothing more than speculation and conjecture, that violations might have occurred. there was just no evidence for a basis for the case. same thing in nevada where judge russell painstakingly in 35 pages sliced and dices all of the allegations of fraud before concludeing there is no evidence to support them. because trump is trying to put our elections themselves on trial. the judiciary is committed to not letting that happen. >> jim, this effort, like everything that we've been talking about this hour is ongoing. saturday night in georgia trump had some ludicrous line about we're waiting to get to the

supreme court. this is part of the fake message to the viewers, that the supreme court is going to do something. there are no cases still active enough to even make it to the supreme court, are there? >> well, there is a case that could make it at masp point andt won't have to do with this election, it will be what the -- the bench may want to weigh in and that has nothing to do with the election, it is state power versus federal power. but the key date is tomorrow, december 8th as the safe harn harbor deadline by which the electors should be locked into place but trump and his allies will still try to meddle after that and create noise. it won't be meaningful. what is fascinating as this show continues with witnesses in a courts have have debunk pd and said this testimony is not credible and yet rudy giuliani

will show up at a state legislative quasihearing they've been holding with the witness whose credibility has been questioned by a judge and in some cases by republican judges and it is presented once again as credible testimony when this is not. so it is really what is extraordinary in this whole effort is how unflinching it is in the face of judges ruling showing that this is paper thin and not even that. it is air. >> yeah, i mean, joyce, i guess when you look at the way that trump is lying to his base, he does not have, as one of the exhibits, any victories in any courts with any evidence of any fraud. so it has -- it hasn't slowed him down at all. but it was, as i think jim has been reporting now, since before the election, was his strategy to litigate his way to victory. and that is in and of itself is haunting and chilling.

>> it's horrible to think that the president's entire strategy was to cheat to win and it really is the death of truth, the ultimate legacy of this presidency is his willingness to talk to his base and the willingness of his base to accept allegations, made up stories that they know aren't true. if you stop and think about what president trump is saying about the outcome of this election, it's very clear at this point, it is being rejected courts across the country, and the most chilling thing about trump's allegations is that he has yet to come forward with a credible witness. we've never heard an actual witness who is not at least inebriated in the moment, come forward and have actual credible claims of significant voter fraud. yes, there might be administrative errors with a ballot here and there but we're talking about a president who is

claiming that the results are fra fraudulent in five or six states enough to change the count in this election and there is simply no evidence to support those claims. >> joyce vance and jim, thank you both so much for spending some time with us and jims thanks for your great reporting on this. when we return, as we watch donald trump trying to overturn an election he lost, we'll be joined by our good friend and colleague rachel maddow to talk about her new book about one of the biggest crooks in american political history and what it took to stop him. and whether that could possibly work in these times. back with rachel after a quick break. ck break. ♪ experience the power of sanctuary at the lincoln wish list sales event. sign and drive off in a new lincoln with zero down, zero due at signing, and a complimentary first month's payment.

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current and former u.s. officials tell nbc news that the pentagon chief of staff is blocking the biden transition team access to department officials and key information necessary to our national security. part of the bigger picture, donald trump has catapult u putted abuse of powner washington to levels unnathable four years but he didn't set the precedent of corruption and shamelessness in the white house. our colleague rachel maddow and michael yarvitz talk about the man who did. they write of nixon's vice president who resigned after the justice department found widespread evidence he accepted bribes while in office. quote, in a few short months in the summer and fall of 1973, he rewrote the rules for how a white house occupant could respond and fight back whether his own justice department comes

knocking. damn the investigators, damn the press, damn the facts. hang in there baby. a legitimate investigation could be smeared and muddied up with a sim bell but aggressive counter offensive, one that is privilege of feelings over facts and loyalty over facts and destruction over cooperation. rachel maddow is host of the rachel maddow show. i'm not going to ask you how you wrote a book because it was based on your podcast. but bag man, the wild crimes and audacious crook in the white house is amazing and tragically so timely. and i guess my first -- well first, congratulations. you've have a rave review in "the new york times" and it blurred by one rod rosenstein. so talk about how the story fits into what we're all living through and what we're covering every night.

>> you are the first person who has noticed that fact that rod rosenstein is one of the blurbs on this. but it was his -- he had been u.s. attorney in maryland and one of the heroes of the story is one of his predecessors as u.s. attorney in maryland. and it really, i mean, the reason that i wanted to do the podcast and the book was because of the civic role, i think there is, for telling stories of civic heroism. there is a reason we tell each other fables and stories about heroic action and courage and selfless sacrifice. and it is to not only teach ourselves what that looks lick but to try to get us to imagine that we could do it ourselves if the time is ever called on it from us. and this is one of the stories where it is helpful to remember

that there have been other just brazen crooks in the white house literally, he was taking bags of cash inside of his white house office. but even more important is to remember that people acting against their partisan interest, people acting in the face of threat and pressure did the right thing and won out in the end when it was really, really hard and those people should be remembered and commented and that should be part of what we know about american public service. so i want those prosecutors to be famous. >> and will you help make them so. and you are the most gifted storyteller of this moment in american politics. but i wonder if you could, could you weave this together for me, there is no way donald trump knows this history, but it is very possible that bill barr does. and where do you see sort of the story intersections between what he did to mueller and what happened here? >> that is a, i think that is exactly right and the right way

to think about it. it is two things. one that agnew and trump ran the same play in terms of how to deal with a legitimate investigation, that was brought upon by some people being caught red-handed doing the wrong thing and that is to rally the base and demonize the investigators, demonize the press for reporting it. agnew had his lawyers subpoena reporters for their sources just for reporting on the case against agnew, not that anything was wrong but the fact that they have any bits of the story. that sort of aggression, as a form of defense, is the way that guys like agnew and trump are wired for sure. but the other part of this that century just like a historic aleco or context, that is newsworthy is the agnew case is how we got the start of the justice department policy that a

president can't be indicted. which is why mueller didn't accuse trump of crimes. and didn't phrase it that way and that is been trump's lifeline through so many of his scandals, russia scandal and individual one and the rest of it. that actually derived from this mess around the prosecutors trying to figure out what to do with the fact that they had caught agnew for what they believed could have been a 40 felony count indictment against him. >> when you look at -- you said you want to make prosecutors heroes again, i think we held up too much hope that they couldfy against all that was pressing down on them from trump and ultimately barr and for a little while i guess sessions. and it was actually really hard. sdny, maybe we projected too much hope on what they've been able to do. you've interviewed lev parnas and covered the investigation

that sent michael cohen to jail and may ultimately include and encapsulate rudy giuliani's conduct. but at the end of the day, it would seem enough political influence that trump, while named individual number one in the campaign finance case, while mueller chronicled ten acts of obstructive criminal conduct in his report, no one ever contemplated charges and there is already this thing in the water and biden furthers it by really wanting to turn the page. what do you think aen justice department should do with all of trump's conduct? >> it is really hard. i mean, agnew is the last case that we had where we have some in the white house, president or vice president, who wasn't just a bad guy or did scandalous things but legit committed crimes and prosecutors had to contend with what they'll do about it and the resolution upset the prosecutors at the

time. these young prosecutors who worked so hard and had them dead to rights and flipped all of the witnesses and had the irs agents take apart his finances. they had the case against him nailed down and they were enraged that agnew wasn't going to go to jail. but the reason he didn't have to go to jail is because the attorney general, elliott richardson, this ram rod straight paragon of integrity, realized that what the country needs was to make sure that ago nu would not become president. it was in the middle of a nixon health scare which is all but forgotten now. there is a better than good chance that agnew would end up in the white house. when they knew that he was tabing cata -- he was taking cash bribes already as president. and they came up as a deal that they believed served justice was to get agnew to resign to keep his butt out of jail. now that is not going to happen with trump. there isn't a tradeoff.

he can't hold the office hostage in the same way that agnew did. and i think that everybody has riegs rights to be concerned about the last occupancy of the presidency or the last people in office all get prosecuted for crimes that the next regime either invents or decides to pursue. there is reason to worry about that. but there is also reason to worry about letting a guy commit crimes and get caught and be named as individual one by prosecutors in new york, and then pay nothing for it. >> right. yeah. no, it is -- biden is in herioti heriot -- inheriting conundrums. i think a speak for our viewers than i say the longest nine days were the days that you and susan were dealing with covid in your home. and i texted you but i'll say this on tv. when you came back and told your story and your experience, i

have met more people in my real life who were covid complaint, doing the right things but they were like all of us, thinking if i do 90% of the things that i'm asked to do, i could still go in and have some tea or a glass of wine at dropoff and hearing you made them, whatever that last ten or 20% complaint was around the question of covid and i just wa wonder how many impact that it had that you opened up the way i've never seen you do before on tv about what susan went through. >> you're going to make me cry on your hour of tv which is -- it is really nice to say that. that is the reason i did it. because i hoped that i could impart just a sliver of how much i was changed by that experience. having been so scared for susan, i will never be the same.

and it changed my mind about covid. i think it changed my mind about a lot of things in my life. i'm a different person now for having been through that. to the extent if anybody out there is like me and you are not that scared for yourself, but do you love someone, the fear of and the near brush with the possibility of losing someone is the most motivating thing in the entire world. i would do anything for her and for a lot of people on this earth, i know there is somebody who you would do anything for. well the thing you need to do for them is not get covid and transmit it because they may very well be the one that you lose. and i just -- to the extent that was helpful, i'm really glad. i hoped that it would be. i'm also never going to do anything like that on tv ever again because it took me about a week to recover just from having said that much about myself. >> well, when you got up to turn your phone off, i almost died and i called our boss and i said where did she go? where did she go? and it was -- it was very scary

knowing what you and susan were dealing with. it was momentarily scary when you left the shot. but it was, as everything that you do, in your life and on tv, it was perfect. so rachel maddow, my friend and colleague, thank you for spending time with us. thank you for putting this podcast into words. in a book. and dare i say that is a little breezy for you. i read this quickly which i could not say about your last book, the wild crimes and aud. >> cover up and of a brazen crook in the white house is out tomorrow. thank you, rachel. >> thank you, nicolle. thank you so much, my friend. when we come back, is the first doses of coronavirus vaccine get delivered in the u.k., there is new concerns in this country that the rollout here may be far less than promised. that is next. n promised that is next when a hailstorm hit, he needed his insurance to get it done right, right away.

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vaccinating people there against coronavirus tomorrow, "the washington post" is reporting that the delivery of vaccines in this country could be far less than what was promised sending state and local officials into a scramble to adjust vaccination plans, and breaking news in the last hour, "the new york times" is reporting quote trump administration officials passed when pfizer offered in late summer to sell the u.s. government additional doses of its covid-19 vaccine, according to people familiar with the matter. now pfizer may not be able to provide more of its vaccine to the united states until next june because of its commitments to other countries. joining our conversation, dr. ba heed bedelia. it's a fraught time with so many people so sick and hospitalizations breaking records every week. there are more than 101,000

americans currently hospitalized with covid. i think the arrival of the vaccine and the discovery of a vaccine has given people this much needed light at the end of the tunnel. what would have made trump administration officials tell pfizer, no thanks. >> it is hard to know, not having been part of the discussions of course. none of us knew how effective the vaccines were going to be, and operation warp speed strategy has been, pfizer was not part of the initial investment but they did take a supply order from the government. the interesting thing to me now is the other part of the intro you had which is we're potentially seeing delays in the level of supplies in this country, and that's concerning because, you know, what we're hearing is that there are two types of issues that they're facing, factoring. what moderna says they want to ensure they had delays. e

they want to ensure components making the vaccine available. if one is missing, they can't produce at level they would like. the other is taking those small batches of vaccines and turning into this big scaled production of vaccines and ensuring which is what we want that the quality and purity remain the same, working the kinks out and put delays in manufacturing that we're seeing. the end of this, if this means states get fewer doses that at the end, you know, for example, we know a certain number of states are deciding between health care workers and long-term facilities, if fewer doses are coming, it's on those states to go back to the facilities to reassess who's at highest risk and those are some of the issues, supply chain issues sort of end up looking like at the end. >> dr. bedahlia, we will continue to call on you as this

news seems to break and develop hourly and daily. thank you so much for spending some time with us today. >> thank you. finally for us, as we do every day, remembering lives well lived. it seems to come naturally to him, an innate ability to connect with and work with young men. antwon ball, his friends called him busta, his friends called him a math teacher, and a good one at that. his sister told the baltimore sun, you can be somebody. once you have an education, it can't be taken away, and his students adored him. he had a passion. not long ago while he was worki worki working for an educational consulting program, funding was nearly shut down, but an administrator told the sun antwon worked without pay just to see that year's class graduate. more recently, he had plans to move new york city to teach there. and he was so close to achieving

that dream when he got sick. described as a genuine caring soul, a loyal teacher and a friend forever, antwon ball died of complications from the coronavirus two weeks ago at the young age of 43. keep his family in your thoughts this evening, along with all of his remarkable students who are surely missing him. we will be right back. s who are surely missing him we will be right back.

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thank you so much for letting us into your homes again during these extraordinary times. we're so grateful. "the beat" with ari melber starts right now. tonight we have a special report on president trump's legal exposure that will begin when he becomes citizen trump and leaves office. that's coming up soon. our top story, though, is this political fallout over trump's failed attempts to deny he lost the presidential race which had been echoing in the