good day, i'm andrea mitchell in washington, as president-elect joe biden rolls out his health team today and has chosen an historic and controversial choice to lead the defense department as president trump shuts out biden transition officials who will be in charge of the vaccine rollout in 43 days. this split screen moment comes

as there have been more than 3 million new covid cases in the u.s. in the last 17 days with 16,000 u.s. deaths in the last week alone. and "the new york times" is reporting the white house passed up several opportunities to buy more of the pfizer vaccine last summer. so those allotments were sold instead to europe. instead, it won't be able to be available in the u.s. until next spring at the earliest. help could be on the way in a matter of days, though, the fda releasing a 53-page report today detailing the pfizer vaccine's efficacy ahead of a critical meeting on thursday, when an advisory committee of the fda will discuss emergency use authorization for pfizer doses in america. already history being made today as the pfizer rollout began in great britain, starting in a hospital north of london where a 90-year-old woman became the first person outside of clinical trials to receive the pfizer vaccine. >> it was fine, it was fine.

i wasn't nervous at all. i don't know what to say. >> we'll have a lot more ahead on the covid vaccine and i'll also be speaking with rachel maddow this hour about her exciting new book "bag man" and some of the parallels between what we're seeing now from donald trump and a story of corruption and coverup and denial in the nixon white house four decades ago. the white house today and what transpired back then, as we say, four decades ago. we begin with richard engel, kristen welker, and peter alexander, and "new york times" chief correspondent peter baker, and dr. peggy hamburg, former fda commissioner in the obama administration. richard engel, you were in that hospital, the exciting moment, this woman will be turning 91 next week and seemed to be a-okay. >> she did, she was in good

spirits. she's home now. a little upset because some paparazzi are gathered outside her door. not something that she anticipated. this is a woman who up until four years ago worked as an assistant in a jewelry shop. she was very pleased because she said the vaccine was free and it was the best thing in the world. so she is in very good spirits, looking forward to celebrating her birthday next week, and christmas. but of course the big news is that she's doing well and that the rollout program here has begun. today it started in about 70 hospitals including the one in coventry that gave the first dose. and it was a relatively small scale and slow beginning. for example, here in coventry, they've already stopped for the day. they only wanted to do about 100 patients, and they plan to do more, four or five times that number, per day next week. but they wanted to make sure in these very crucial steps,

knowing that the country would be watching, knowing that the world would be watching, they didn't want to have any missteps. so far it has been a very smooth rollout for this vaccine. people here are feeling very proud. this country had been criticized for not handling the covid pandemic very well. now it is trying to recover from that, to regain some of its reputation. they're calling this v-day, a reference, obviously, "v" for vaccine, but anyone in this country will immediately recognize the parallels to ve day or vj day, and that's how they're representing it, a start to the victory over the pandemic, a victory they now can see in the not-too-distant future, andrea. >> richard engel, an exciting day indeed, we look forward to your reporting throughout the day and on "nbc nightly news" tonight. thank you. we'll turn to dr. hamburg. here at home the fda released

that briefing book on the pfizer vaccine ahead of this week's advisory board review. did you see anything that would be a red flag? and is this an extra step that's not taking place in the uk? >> well, the preliminary information that has come forward has been just enormously promising. in the uk, they did move more swiftly in terms of making an authorization for broadened use and first doses went into people today, as we just saw. fda takes a deeper dive, looks at the primary data, and looks at its own analysis, not just relying on the analyses of the company. it's also hosting open public meeting of its vaccine advisory board where the data will be examined by a group of outside experts and vaccinologists to

look at all different kinds of questions from what do we know about safety and efficacy in different sub-populations, what do we know about whether the vaccine actually prevents infection period, or can you have asymptomatic infection and possibly be at risk for still spreading virus, what additional studies might the company do even with an emergency use authorization, and what do we know and how will we study the duration of protection. the initial data is very, very encouraging. it looks like it is reliable and effective across many important sub-populations including the elderly, who usually don't mount as robust an immune response. obesity has been seen to be one of the risk factors for serious disease. it works in them, it works in people of color who are at greater risk for the disease.

and it looks like you actually get a pretty robust response after one dose although two doses are what's being recommended by the company. we'll see what the discussions are about how to proceed. >> and now of course the question, assuming there's emergency authorization, kristen, the question will be how it gets rolled out across the country and how well the states are prepared to take it on. the health team for the biden team, which will be announced today officially, they'll have these big challenges in only six weeks. they'll meet thursday with moncef slaoui from operation warp speed, but they're not being included at all in this big white house summit today. >> that's right. and we expect that president-elect joe biden will be naming xavier becerra, attorney general for california, as his hhs secretary. he will undoubtedly key to the

effort to get the vaccine out. he would be the first latino to serve in that role if in fact confirmed. but you're absolutely right, andrea, what's critical here is that the biden team has a plan to roll this out, that they are in communication with the folks at operation warp speed. now, biden has said that despite the fact that there was that delay initially in having communication with the trump administration, with officials at operation warp speed, he feels confident that they will be able to make up for lost time. but as you know, andrea, part of this is going to be trying to instill trust in this vaccine with nearly 40% of americans saying they're not going to take it, that they don't have faith in the vaccine. and so this is going to be an uphill battle. the biden transition team striking a note of confidence, but undoubtedly in coming days, particularly after that key meeting on thursday, they'll need to unveil more details about what their specific plan looks like, andrea. >> and peter alexander, the

president's going to taking a lot of credit today for the vaccines after not focusing very much on covid in recent weeks, focusing instead on his claims that he actually won the election. "the new york times" now reporting that he passed up, that the white house passed up a chance to buy more of the pfizer vaccine last summer and that it was sold to european union, and that by all accounts this executive order he's signing today is more for show. he calls it america first. the bottom line, what's reflected in what moncef slaoui said, he was on abc this morning, he didn't seem to know anything about what this executive order could mean. let's watch. >> i don't quite understand, are you saying that foreign countries aren't going to be able to get the vaccine until everybody here in the united states gets it? it sounds like the problem is the opposite right now, pfizer has made deals with other countries that are going to limit the supply here. >> frankly, i don't know. and frankly, i'm staying out of this. i can't comment.

>> you don't know? >> yes. >> but you're the chief science adviser for operation warp speed. >> our work is rolling, we have plans, we feel we can deliver the vaccine as needed. so i don't understand exactly what this order is about. >> this will not be the first time, peter, the president has signed an executive order that's basically meaningless. >> yeah, andrea, we know the president is going to sign something today, an executive order. we don't know what if anything it does mean, it may very well be a symbolic gesture by the president, something a senior administration official told us yesterday, a sort of pre-vaccine summit call, said it would be a reaffirmation of the president's commitment to america first. but that fundamental effort seems to be undercut by this new reporting, confirmed by a pfizer board member, a former fda commissioner, dr. scott gottlieb, that the administration passed multiple times when presented with the opportunity to buy additional

doses of the pfizer vaccine. even in the words of gottlieb, after there were initial promising results associated with it. so the u.s. ended up buying about 100 million of these doses, which is good to vaccinate about 50 million people, because of course it's two doses you'll need for full vaccines treatment for visits. for comparison, the european union purchased 200 million doses. so right now, as the u.s. is now seeing these promising results likely to be approved, emergency use approval authorization later this week, it may be not until june before the u.s. is able to purchase more of that vaccine, because so much of it has been snapped up by those other foreign countries to this point. the white house pushes back on this, they insist it's false, they say that the white house is in negotiation with multiple agreements with many different vaccine manufacturers right now. but it does raise a lot of questions even as the president today is going to sort of have a victory lap of sorts before the

process is even begun here about how effective the effort has been and whether the strategy was smart from the start. >> and peter baker, the president doesn't seem to be any closer to accepting the reality that he lost the election. just today, the republican attorney general in texas is suing other states to try to stop them from choosing electors and that would go automatically to the supreme court if the supreme court decides to take it. >> yeah, and of course we had reports yesterday, obviously, that the president called the speaker of the house in pennsylvania to try to get their state legislature to overturn the will of the voters in pennsylvania and substitute its own set of electors to vote for donald trump instead. the speaker of the house apparently told him he can't do that, he doesn't have any power to do that, but there was a letter signed by pennsylvania legislators urging congress to

reject the state's set of electors that are set for joe biden. all of this is just a lot of theater, we think, we don't think this is going to change anything. today is the safe harbor deadline, that means any state that has resolved its electors as of today, those lectures are considered to be conclusive, which means it's awfully hard for anybody to do anything to overturn them. the electoral college will vote in just 16 days, and there's every sign of course they will vote for joe biden, who won 306 electoral votes, the same number that president trump won just four years ago. the process is going forward it, the president is railing against it but doesn't seem to be actually stopping it, all it does is undermine faith in the outcome on the part of many of president trump's supporters. >> and kristen, i want to end with your reporting on cabinet choices. first of all, the retired four-star general lloyd austin, historically important, the first black person to lead the pentagon, he would be.

there is some criticism, he would need a waiver. democrats in the past have opposed that, they might not this time around. and whatever you're hearing about attorney general, which we're expecting to get this week. >> that's right, andrea. lloyd austin would be a history-making pick if he is in fact confirmed. he would be the first african-american to serve in that role, as you say. biden's decision comes amid pressure from civil rights groups, african-american leaders who say they want to see a diverse cabinet at the highest levels. so we turn to the attorney general, and our team, mike memoli, you, myself, have confirmed with our sources that alabama senator doug jones is the leading choice to serve as the pick for attorney general if he is in fact confirmed. we know they're looking at a range of other people, merrick garland who is an appeals court judge, of course he was chosen

by former president barack obama for the supreme court but never got a hearing. he was blocked by republicans. we also know that sally yates, deval patrick, were among the names that were in the mix but they seem to have lost momentum in recent days so now the attention turns to doug jones. biden has a good relationship with him and as you know, andrea, that's critical for these types of decisions. >> he played an important role in prosecuting the case of the little girls killed in birmingham, alabama in the '60s. he's had a long history of commitment to civil rights in the south, of course was defeated in the alabama senate race. we'll be hearing that soon too. a busy day for you, kristen welker, thanks to peter, peter baker, and dr. peggy hamburg, as always, thanks for your expertise. and more on why joe biden's historic pick to head up the pentagon is drawing some criticism. plus warning signs.

how disinformation online could wear away as confidence in the covid vaccines. plus my special guest rachel maddow today about her new book about a crook in the white house, and it's not who you might think. you're watching "andrea mitchell reports" only on msnbc. needles. essential for sewing, but maybe not for people with certain inflammatory conditions. because there are options. like an "unjection™". xeljanz. the first and only pill of its kind that treats moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis, psoriatic arthritis, or moderate to severe ulcerative colitis when other medicines have not helped enough.

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president-elect biden's nominee to lead the pentagon, expected to be retired army general lloyd austin. if confirmed, he would be the first black american to lead this giant department. the historic pick is already

receiving some pushback. general austin would need to obtain a congressional waiver, a waiver from both houses, to serve as secretary of defense, something only two other nominees have sought in american history. general george marshall under president truman and james mattis under donald trump. a number of democrats oppose mattis for this reason, and others who say that after the trump years a different kind of leader is needed for defense. joining me now, former nato supreme allied commander, retired four-star navy admiral james stavridis and former democratic senator claire mccaskill who served on the armed services committee. welcome, both. general stavridis, i know you are a fan of this great leader. but is he the right choice? >> i think it's the right conversation to have. i'm dying to hear what senator mccaskill has to say about it given her having sat in the seat, so to speak. but i'll give you my

perspective. i think that we should provide another waviver. i'll tell you why. i think the pentagon is simply in turmoil right now. that's because we've had four or five secretaries of defense, depending on how you count it, over the last four years. therefore i think a figure like lloyd austin with an unimpeachable combat record, who is well-liked, a team personality, who can walk into the building and command instant respect, i think that makes sense as we look at the field in front of us. again, having said that, ideally we would always have, if you will, a pure civilian running the pentagon so that we have good civilian control over the military. but as the senate wrestles with this, i hope they take into account the quality of lloyd as well as, frankly, the historic aspect of being the first african-american to lead this

department. i'm for him. >> certainly that is an important factor, 40% of the military rank and file are minorities, black, latinos, asians as well. claire mccaskill, former senator, senator jack reed, of course, ranking on the senate armed services committee, expressed concern over providing the waiver to mattis in 2017, saying it would sent a dangerous new precedent for pentagon leadership and that waiving the law should happen only once in a generation, and went on to say he would not support such a waiver for future nominees. others have said they would not support a waiver, including elizabeth warren, bernie sanders. what do you think about this and the current situation? >> well, first let's just boil this down to what this decision is going to be for the senators

and for the house members, andrea, because they have to pass this waiver also. are we going to stand on the difference between four and seven years versus a highly respected, history-making african-american appointment to run the department of defense? i think that's a tough call for my former colleagues. i think if you were actually going to draw a line in the sand and say, well, seven years is enough, but four years isn't enough to lead the pentagon, in light of what this particular nominee represents, i have a feeling there will be some democrats who will vote no but there will be plenty that will vote yes. i think the calculation for many of the senate democrats, especially those on the armed services committee who will have a leadership role here will be, is he up for the job, can he handle this job. and here's the thing about austin. number one, he's incredible

leader that commands high respect in the military. number two, over 40% of our active military are people of color. number three, he is not a show horse, he's a workhorse. and that's why he garners so much respect. he doesn't want a high profile tenure, he wants to be back-facing and get the pentagon back in shape. finally, i think it's really important to point out that he gets that what trump has done in the closing weeks of this administration is really clean out a lot of the civilian people at the pentagon and put in his cronies. you're going to need somebody really strong to stand up to those cronies. i think lloyd austin is the guy to do that. i think he'll be confirmed. >> i don't disagree, given the fact that he would be historic as a black man and the large number of people of color in the pentagon. i'm just saying, is he the best

choice. admiral stavridis, let me point out jim colby, former special adviser to vice presidents joe biden and mike pence, wrote in "the new york times" that the pentagon now needs to reestablish national security processes and return to a sense of normalcy. appointing another retired general to lead the pentagon will not help return things to normal. so you've got that issue, you know, the policy shops at the pentagon have been completely hollowed out over the last four years, including from mattis, frankly, and certainly from successors. is he the right person to get the policy-making in the pentagon up to speed? >> i think so. and, you know, i've known lloyd austin for over two decades. we're rough contemporaries, i think he's two years older than i am, and a west point graduate, by the way, go navy, beat army, the game is this week. but i will tell you that we are

under way in recognizing lloyd austin's policy chops in the building, in the pentagon. he's been the director of operations, he's been director of the joint staff, arguably the most important three-star policy guy in the entire u.s. military. he has been the vice chief of staff of the army where he touched all of the social and personnel and training, readiness, and equip issues. so yeah, i think he's highly qualified in terms of policy, washington experience, pentagon experience, and he's a silver star recipient in combat. it's a pretty good package. >> that's certainly a lot to recommend him indeed. thank you both so much for your perspectives. this could be quite an interesting confirmation process. admiral james stavridis, senator claire mccaskill, thanks both. president-elect biden is one of many honoring chuck yeager

today, saying he redefined the possible. he was a world war ii fighting ace who was the first man to fly faster than the speed of sound. he died today at age 97. nbc's tom costello has a look at this american miere hero. >> reporter: dropped from a b-29 over the mohave desert, charles yeager lit the rocket that pushed his experimental x-1 aircraft soaring to over 45,000 feet and past mach 1. >> for the first time, a man has flown an airplane faster than the speed of sound. >> you don't look at it as being dangerous. it's something you're sort of dedicated to and you just sort of concede the fact that that's your job and that's what you're going to do. and you don't recall think about the outcome. of course a lot of pilots got killed. >> reporter: chuck yeager was a

pilot's pilot, testing more trai planes, training pilots and astronauts. >> i think of chuck as the essential american. he was a daredevil. he knew what he had to do in the war. then when we started to think about space and taking it to the next level, he was right there. >> reporter: few names are as iconic as chuck yeager's, representing courage and service. one of america's very favorite sons. it's been a tough year. and now with q4 wrapping up, the north pole has to be feeling the heat. it's okay santa, let's workflow it. workflow it...? -uh-huh. just picture it... with the now platform, we'll have the company you always imagined. efficient, productive, seamless. ok, i'm in. whatever your business is facing... let's workflow it. servicenow.

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with the uk beginning vaccinations of the pfizer vaccine today and the u.s. likely to follow in a week or so, possibly, health officials are increasingly concerned about disinformation and conspiracy theories which could reduce the number of americans willing to take the vaccine, making it less effective in the overall population. shockingly, republican homeland security chairman senator ron johnson today could contribute to that problem by inviting a leading anti-vaccine doctor to testify today before the senate homeland security committee. joining me now is clint watts, former fbi special agent on the joint terrorism task force and a senior fellow with the foreign policy research institute. so clint, first of all, you've been writing about vaccine disinformation. senators will hear from this witness. she's dr. jane orient. she's backed hydroxychloroquine as a coronavirus treatment despite multiple studies proving that it is not effective, could even be harmful, could have

cardiac effect. she says she pushes for everyone to get vaccinated, it infringes on individual liberties, claims falsely that the vaccine could affect young people's fertility. >> that's right, andrea, we live in two different realities. we've learned that over the last couple of years. and what you see is, this is probably the most critical. i've focused a lot on election 2020 disinformation. but you're seeing the same people that were pushing conspiracies about the election, just two weeks ago, now talking about vaccine conspiracies. we've got two forces going. we've got a decade plus organic anti-vaxx movement in the united states. we've got all sorts of manipulators out there, financial fraudsters, foreign nations like russia and china are bashing our vaccine or trying to undermine confidence. what we need is our institutions

and our leaders to put confidence in the public not to undermine it. when you see these sort of conspiracies being pushed all the way up to capitol hill, that causes problems all the way down the chain for getting us vaccinated and getting past covid-19. >> and maybe this is going to come out of the vaccine summit today, but in the uk, as they begin their distribution today, prime minister boris johnson is vowing to combat misinformation. here at home we've reported the trump administration has yet to launch this promised effort to get americans to trust the vaccines. and what they do is going to impact, of course, how the biden team, the biden administration, builds trust when they come in. >> that's exactly right, andrea. we need everyone, leaders across industries, across sectors, to really dive into this and say, hey, you need to trust us because the faster we get people vaccinated, the faster we can come out of this here in 2021.

if we don't, we could literally delay and sputter for so long that our economy is tanking still, we still have people shut in at home, we don't have schools. these things need to stop. and i think one of the big things we could do is have like the three former presidents who have potentially offered to get that vaccine and take it out in front of everybody. we did pretty well with the election, aside from the political leaders, the institutions like cisa with chris krebs, they did really well at fighting misinformation. i would like to see the government do this and we don't have months to do this, we need to do it right now. >> thank you so much, clint watts. the lockdown as covid cases skyrocket, we'll talk about california, the toughest restrictions going into effect there, california congresswoman karen bass joins us. plus history repeating? rachel maddow ceasees parallels

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coronavirus cases are exploding in california with more than 32,000 new cases reported monday, shattering the previous single day record. most regions in the state remain in lockdown as the death toll from the virus tops 20,000. joining me now, california democratic congresswoman karen bass who chairs the congressional black caucus. congresswoman, thank you very much. good to see you again. >> thank you. >> what are you recommending, what should be done? because your governor, your leading marriye eors have been proactive and yet you're still suffering from this ravage of covid. >> you're absolutely right, the governor and the mayors have been adhering to scientific guidance. so the lockdown, the curfews,

all of that is vitally important. it's based on the number of beds in the intensive care units. the worst thing that could happen is the virus continue to affect people and that we not be able to accommodate them with ventilators and the type of care that's needed in the intensive care units. >> president-elect biden now has chosen, we understand from all of our reporting, retired four-star general lloyd austin, a celebrated and decorated leader, as the first black man to lead, the first black person to lead the pentagon, an historic choice, someone you supported, i believe, in your role at the cbc, as the chair. some of your colleagues are opposed to granting him the waiver he would need in both house and senate as a military person taking over the pentagon. what would be your argument on his behalf? >> first of all, we have given waivers before. we voted on a waiver for mattis, and i think we need to do it

now. you know, i think that the incoming biden/harris administration is going to have so much work to do to repair and to change all of the chaos that's been happening over the last four years. and so i think having someone like austin be appointed is very important. i had the opportunity to meet him on a congressional delegation to iraq several years ago. and so i believe that he will bring the type of leadership and stability that is needed to the military. i mean, we've seen what the president has done with the pentagon over the last, you know, few weeks, firing everybody and bringing in people that have no qualifications whatsoever. and so i think having lloyd austin there is a major -- will be a major step forward, and i think we should vote to give him the waiver. >> your name has been mentioned as a possible choice to head hud as cabinet secretary but also there's the possibility you could be appointed to the senate to fill kamala harris's seat.

there's only one black democrat in the senate right now and no black women at all. would that be your top choice? >> well, i mean, first of all, i am willing to serve in whatever capacity. i have a great job now. if i'm tapped or asked to do something else, i will be happy to consider it. i think it would be a tremendous loss for the entire state of california and the country to have no black women in the u.s. senate at all. and so i think that's something that has to be taken into consideration. and so we will see. i think our governor has a world of issues right now, and as of yesterday, he has two appointments to make, and maybe even more. but, you know, the number one issue in california has got to be dealing with the coronavirus. >> we will wait and see along with you. congresswoman, thank you very much for all you're doing, we really appreciate it. >> absolutely. and next, "bag man." rachel maddow on her new book

and what the saga of the only vice president ever forced to resign from office can tell us about the unprecedented times we live in now. rachel joining me next. stay with us. you're watching "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. u. you inspired us to make your humira experience even better... with humira citrate-free. it has the same effectiveness you know and trust, but we removed the citrate buffers, there's less liquid, and a thinner needle... with less pain immediately following injection. ask your doctor about humira citrate-free. and you can use your co-pay card to pay as little as $5 a month. humira can lower your ability to fight infections. serious and sometimes fatal infections,... ...including tuberculosis, and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened,... ...as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems,... ...serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common... and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections,... or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. ask your doctor about humira citrate-free. the same humira you trust

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if you can't afford your medicine, ♪ you're still the one ♪ that i love to touch ♪ still the one ♪ and i can't get enough ♪ we're still having fun, ♪ and you're still the one applebee's 2 for $20. now that's eating good in the neighborhood. good evening. spiro t. agnew became a private citizen today. less than one hour after his resignation as vice president became official, he was convicted of a criminal charge of tax evasion.

>> i categorically and flatly deny the assertions that have been made by the prosecutors with regard to their contentions of bribery and extortion on my part. i will have nothing more to say at this point. i will make an address to the nation within a few days. >> it was october 1973. and while the country was immersed in watergate, vice president pireer spir row spiro was prosecuted. rachel maddow wrote "bag man" based on her podcast. joining us now is rachel maddow, the host of "the rachel maddow show" of course here on msnbc and this book, rachel, i can't tell you how much fun i had

reading this book. you got me where i live. this is so great. first of all, the parallels -- >> i've written a couple of real tomes, and this one is about a crazy thing but it's kind of fun, i'm so glad you liked it. >> i love your books on oil, on the military, i love everything you write and do. so i'm an acknowledged fangirl, but seriously, the parallels here between spiro agnew and president trump are striking. you wrote that agnew's default setting was attack mode. he cheerfully derided liberals, the establishment, officivory-t academics, and the press. >> i think agnew is underappreciated as the first

modern draft of the type republicanism that ultimately brought us i think sarah palin was along those lines in terms of a national figure, and donald trump. it's a specific type of republicanism that deviates from what that what that party broug us in the past. and it sort of has tactical markers that you can see, including going after the press, including just relishing political combat for the sake of combat, describing your oppon t opponents as not only bad, but evil and unworthy of any respect or any due political process. i mean, agnew was good at it before trump was. >> you know, he also, as you write, he attacked his own justice department. you write, ultimately agnew failed to save himself but left a scorched earth battle plan for any corrupt office holder that followed. attacked the investigations as a witch hunt.

obstructed behind the scenes, attacking individual investigators in personal terms. attacked the credibility of the justice department itself. attacked the media informing americans about the case. punched back hard until either you were broken or the system is. negativism aside, this is a playbook, familiar playbook. and let's just bring people in here who have not had the fun receiveding this book which is out today, i should say. so here you have agnew taking cash payments inside his white house office as he had as governor, as he had as baltimore county executive before that. just continuing these bribery schemes and the prosecutors, these heroic prosecutors, federal prosecutors, who have to make this tough decision. you've got a president under fire for watergate. are you going to let spiro agnew become president of the united states and then be immune from any prosecution?

arguably, controversial, because nixon is out, or you're going to get agnew to resign and take a plea deal and not be prosecuted but get him out of the way so you have a clean vice president appointed so then you can deal with watergate and richard nixon. is that basic tradeoff? >> yes. and it's this remarkable thing. agnew is mostly forgotten. but to the extent that anybody remembers him and the fact he was forced from office, it feels like it must have been some watergate adjacent thing. but it really was a totally separate scandal. it was him taking bags of cash bribes, including inside the white house. but the watergate crisis loomed over all the decision making around his case and all the precedent that was set at the justice department around this case because nixon was teetering. it looked like watergate might take him out. another thing forgotten by history is that for the first time there was a real health scare around nixon as well. nixon had been incredibly healthy. had never taken a sick day his whole first term in office.

he ended up hospitalized with pneumonia. plus, he's on the phone to his attorney general frequently sounding not well and being completely unhinged in his upset over watergate. it really seemed like nixon was going to go and that would put agnew in the white house when these prosecutors and the justice department had fulsome detailed evidence about his ongoing criminal schemes. he's doing extortion and bribery and taking the bags full of money. that led to the imperative that he had to get out of office. that was the most important thing. and they fought with attorney richardson over that. richardson sort of saw to the horizon and said more important than whether or not he goes to jail is that he does not become president which could happen at any moment. but we're also left with the modern legacy of that wrangling over these crooks, over nixon

and agnew both being crooks in the white house at the same time. while nixon's -- while agnew's attorneys did prevent him from going to jail, what happened inside the justice department around it, the office of legal council members created around that case and the question of whether you could prosecute him ultimately provided the get out of jail free card that all presidents, including donald trump have enjoyed since which is this justice department policy that you can't prosecute a president. that came out of the agnew mess in a way that probably shouldn't have been standing historical precedent but it's what trump is still benefiting from today. >> and i just want to share that i was recruited to come to washington from philadelphia to cover the next big case there that barney and rod were prosecuting against the governor marvin mandell. they were the people i covered. i went to baltimore every day for local news then, and it was

a big story. and i know firsthand what they did on the mandel case. i just want to also say, before we -- before we stop here today, is that your description of what you went through, the transformation in your life because of the illness of susan, of covid and how you realized what that meant and your personal exposure, you're exposing yourself in telling the world about it has meant so much. it was transforming to us, to people everywhere, and i think in profound ways it really changed people's behaviors, and it was very brave. and we're so glad susan is doing better. but for you doing that -- >> thank you. >> -- that was amazing. >> that's very kind of you to say. of course, our colleague stephanie ruhle and her family are living with covid right now and recovering and she's also

been able to speak about this in an incredibly powerful way, but, yeah, you have a marriage that means the world to you. i have a partnership that means the world to me, and i think it is just worth saying that we all need to protect ourselves but maybe it's sometimes even more motivating to know that we need to protect the people who we most love and that is the transformation that i went through with this. susan is doing much better now. i don't plan to ever talk in terms that personal ever again on tv, but i hope it helped. >> well, as you know, 9:00 in our household for both of us is must-see television, and that night was extraordinary. as it every night. rachel maddow, thank you for everything. the new book is "bag man, the wild crimes, audkairbs cover-up and spectacular downfall of a brazen crook in the white house." it's out today. watch rachel tonight. chuck todd is up next with "mtp

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