i'm going to be there when her daughter has a baby. i'm going to be there with her sons when they meet their wives and graduate if high school. i'm going to get to see all of that and she's not. she's in hell, and she's going to live this way for the rest of her life. >> that's all for this edition of "dateline." i'm craig melvin. thank you for watching. i'm craig melvin. >> and i'm natalie morales. >> and this is "dateline." >> it was all surreal. it still is. things like that don't happen to small town people. i was very scared. i was worried that i was going to be next. >> he was the friendly farmer about to make it big on reality tv. >> he loved being on tv. >> a success to celebrate after so much loss. his first wife killed in an

awful fire. >> i was devastated. this is my sister. she was just a sweet, wonderful, giving person. >> they called it a horrible accident, but here's the thing. accidents just seem to keep happening, deadly ones. >> these thoughts kept coming up, an intuition that something just was not right. >> wife number two had a growing suspicion. and she also had a plan. >> i had actually watched an episode of "dateline" and i like had this revelation. >> a dangerous mission. was her own life at risk? >> this is the mystery novel that won't end. you couldn't write this storyline. hello. and welcome to "dateline." the death of a young mother in a house fire was almost too much for her family to bear. then, years later, another

devastating accident and another loved one gone. was this just a string of brutally bad luck or the work of a calculating killer? here's andrea canning with "deadly deceit." >> reporter: snapshots of a time gone by capturing a life that could have been. now all that's left are the burned-out remnants of a life that's gone. >> i've seen the destruction to my family. i've seen my parents fall apart. >> i didn't think my life was going to turn out like this at all. >> had this not come to a head now, the mystery would have lived on. the karlsen family would have always wondered what really happened. >> reporter: the story begins

here around the finger lakes. a stunning part of upstate new york. this is where the karlsen family put down its roots. >> all right, karl! >> reporter: and it's here that karl karlsen brought his bride christina to meet his family in 1986. his brother mike took to her right away. >> she was a small, tiny little girl. not very tall at all. a very simple sweetheart of a kid. >> reporter: kristina and karl had met in north dakota where karl was stationed in the air force. when he was discharged they came to his home to make a life. was she a good fit? >> absolutely. she would give it out as well as take it and laugh on the way. >> stand right there, chris. karl, get closer. >> they were a cute couple. christina, the little cheerleader from california. karl the rough-and-ready country boy. christina's sister colette liked the way karl made chris laugh. >> they would laugh and joke.

he was this big barrel chested guy and my sister only four eleven. >> he got work in the local stone quarry and it wouldn't be long before he and christina had three kids. aaron, levi, and katie. >> she'd be on the floor playing with them or teaching them or instructing them or coddling them. and it wasn't just her kids. it was all of our kids. >> look at those two lovely people over there. >> reporter: christina seemed happy. but karl wanted more than a life working the quarry, and christina's father, art alexander, offered a ticket out. a job with a future working in his heating and air-conditioning company. >> i said you know, if you ever need a job just come on out to california and you'll have a job because you can work with me. >> reporter: so they moved all the way across the country to murphys, an old mining town in the sierra foothills. karl found them a ramshackle house at the top of this long winding road. it wasn't much, but it was closer to colette and christina

made it special. >> she went into like home decorator mode and started painting and sewing curtains. every time i go up, wow, this looks really good. >> karl, thank you, darling. >> reporter: christina and karl celebrated christmas with christina's family in 1990, but just a week later their lives would change forever. it was new year's day 1991. >> i come outside. i saw the smoke from the house. i could see where the smoke was out there. >> reporter: karl and christina's house was on fire. karl said he had been in the garage but he rushed to the house. he pulled the kids out of their bedroom windows where they were napping. but christina was trapped in the bathroom. flames raging just outside the bathroom door. the window was boarded shut from the inside. by the time art arrived, the paramedics were already on the scene. >> got in the ambulance, i looked around. i said, where's chris? and they told me, one of the kids said she's with god or

she's -- the angels took her or something like that. and that's when i found out. it's worse than death. >> reporter: art could only imagine the terror of her last moments on earth. he then placed one of the toughest calls he's ever made. >> i need to tell you something. there was a fire out at chris's house and everyone got out but chris. and i said, are you kidding me? and he said no. >> reporter: back in upstate new york, the karlsen family got the terrible news. so mike and his sister-in-law flew to california to help karl and the children, who were all under the age of 7. >> i said, i'll help when i can. tell me what to do. and he was just numb. he was more of a zombie. he just said, "i don't know." >> reporter: are you thinking how in the world is my brother going to take care of these three little kids? >> right.

i had no clue. >> reporter: karl spoke briefly with fire investigators. he said he wasn't sure how the fire started, but he knew why it moved so fast. the pets had knocked over a container full of kerosene a day or two before. karl didn't share many other details with friends and family, and mike sensed it was hard for karl to deal with anything important. so after a while mike pressed him a bit. >> what are we doing? if we're going to stay in california, you need to arrange for an apartment. you've got to get supplies, get the house settled. because the kids need some form of stability here. that's when he said, i just want to go home. >> reporter: so four days after the fire karl packed up his three children and flew back to upstate new york. it was yet another blow for christina's grieving family. >> my sister and i had made a commitment to each other that our kids were going to grow up knowing each other. and then it was stripped in five

days. >> reporter: all christina's father had left of his beloved daughter was this box of charred photos that he rescued from the house. reminders of her and the grandchildren he loved. >> after her death i was probably more dead than alive. i didn't pay attention to a lot of things that i should have, but i just muddled through. i didn't care. >> reporter: hobbled by grief, he also felt a helpless and maybe pointless anger toward his son-in-law and wondered why didn't karl do more to save christina that terrible day? >> there was a pick laying in front of a tree out in front. if somebody wanted to pull a board off the window all they had to do was take a pick and pull it off. >> reporter: for the children, erin, katie and levi, art would contain his anger and keep the family peace. but what happened in that little house on the hill would come back to haunt christina's family in the years to come.

>> another painful loss is about to hit this family. one that none of them expected. coming up -- >> we just got home. and i don't think he's alive. >> you don't think he's alive? >> no. >> when "dateline" continues. but lately, have been putting off seeing your dermatologist, it's time to get the care you need. because psoriasis isn't just a skin condition. those itchy, flakey red patches you see on the outside, could be a sign of inflammation on the inside. talk to your dermatologist about the impact of untreated psoriasis. and how they can see you safely to help get your symptoms under control. schedule an appointment with your dermatologist today. we'rethat are very acidic.foods and beverages it can soften the enamel. pronamel repair, what it's doing is driving more minerals deep into the enamel surface, that's going to help actively repair. pronamel is taking it to another level.

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who do you think you are? pain will bring you to your senses. you cannot keep this up! pain says you can't. advil says you can. the finger lakes region of upstate new york was karl karlsen's family home. and now he was back to stay. here in seneca county he would

rebuild his life among the farms, the fields, the vineyards and old friends. does everyone in this area know the karlsen family? >> probably most of seneca county knows one or all of us. >> reporter: karl's wife was gone, but he still had his three little kids to think about. >> he went back to work at the stone quarry for a while. and then saw an opportunity at a local glass manufacturing plant that had just opened. >> reporter: was there a lot of concern for karl having just lost his wife? >> i think everybody realized this poor guy isn't going to do it on his own. >> reporter: so people helped out. here in seneca county karl karlsen was surrounded by a big extended family in a place where the karlsen name really meant something. and it all seemed to come together for him when he met cindy best at a line dancing party in 1992.

>> he told me he lost his wife in a fire, and he was a single dad raising three kids on his own. >> reporter: cindy got herself an instant family when she married karl in august of 1993. they bought a farm soon after that. and between the farm and the glass job, karl was busy. cindy was desperate to have a child of her own, so she and karl went through in vitro fertilization. you were going to have the baby you'd always wanted. >> happiest time of my life. yep. >> reporter: and the big kids were happy, too, when their baby brother alex was born. as the years went by alex says he and his big brother levi developed a special bond. >> he was always there for me. we always loved to hang out together. >> reporter: levi, erin and katie's family from california stayed in touch. they even visited. their aunt colette got to know the girls and got a kick out of levi. >> well, levi had this quirky little personality. he was a prankster, but he also had my sister's very sweet spirit. >> what's the matter, levi?

>> reporter: but levi's life wasn't easy. he had problems in school. and he and karl began to butt heads. >> i think levi bucked the system a little bit. he was a typical teenaged boy who knew all the answers. but it seemed the more qulif struggled in his world, karl held him down rather than try to pick him up. >> reporter: the rift widened. in may of 2002 when levi was only 17, he left home. his uncle mike watched it happen with a tinge of sadness. >> he dropped out of school, which didn't help things at all. he jumped and didn't look where he was jumping to. so he didn't have a job. he floated from house to house, to different family members. >> reporter: levi eventually met a girl named cassie and was living with her when disaster struck the karlsen family again. it happened in november of 2002. as cindy remembers it, karl was just coming to bed. >> he sat upright and kind of

looked out the window and said, "oh, my god, call 911. the barn's on fire." >> reporter: cindy did call 911. and her brother-in-law. what did karl say to you when you arrived? >> he mentioned that the horses were still in there. >> reporter: the karlsens had been breeding belgian horses. their loss and the loss of the old barn was devastating to the family. levi exploded. he said some terrible things, and he and karl came to blows. >> levi got in his truck to get away from karl, and karl chased after him. i was yelling at karl, you know, just let him go, leave him alone, let him go. >> reporter: but levi was never able to stay away for long. he and cassie included karl and the rest of the family in their wedding in 2003. the young couple soon had two daughters. but it may have been too much too fast. the marriage didn't last. >> it was just a bad divorce. neither one of them was nice to each other. >> reporter: but like many kids,

levi started to grow up. he got his g.e.d., started working and tried hard to be a good dad. and perhaps in being a father, his anger with his own father began to soften. >> i think he had rounded the corner a little bit. could see some sort of a path and a direction for his life. >> reporter: levi had his own place now, but he would drop by the old house to see the family and help karl with some work. on november 20th, 2008, levi came over to work on a truck in cindy and karl's new barn. cindy remembers she and karl had just come home from a funeral. they'd been gone for about four hours. >> karl told me that he was going to go out and let levi know we were home and check on him. >> reporter: cindy went into the house. suddenly karl came rushing out of the barn. >> he came banging on the window and the door and telling me to call 911. >> what's going on? >> the truck fell on my stepson. coming up --

>> the truck was jacked in a very precarious, dangerous scenario. >> yet another deadly accident? when "dateline" continues. how we do things. we find new ways of speaking, so you're never out of touch. it's seeing someone's face that comforts us, no matter where. when those around us know us, they can show us just how much they care. the first steps of checking in, the smallest moments can end up being everything. there's resources that can inform us, and that spark can make a difference. when we use it to improve things, then that change can last within us. when we understand what's possible, we won't settle for less. the best thing we can be is striving to be at our best. managing heart failure starts now with understanding.

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okay. are you with your son right now? >> he's not alive. >> is he breathing? >> no. >> he is not breathing? okay. >> no. >> another catastrophe had struck the karlsens. levi was trapped under a truck in the barn. >> his chest is crushed. >> his chest is crushed. >> his chest is crushed?

>> there's no -- he's probably been under here for hours. >> reporter: karl's brother mike rushed over. >> they were just bringing levi out on the stretcher and putting him in the ambulance when i got there. >> reporter: levi was taken to the hospital but the family knew it was hopeless. 17 years after his mother's terrible death, levi karlsen had died at the age of 23. cindy said karl came unhinged. >> he was actually like throwing himself up against the wall, and he was on the ground. >> reporter: so many tears and so many questions. how could levi have been so careless? >> we went into the barn to see the truck was jacked in a very precarious, dangerous scenario. no blocks under it. flimsy little jack holding it up. >> reporter: you're thinking levi should have known better than this? >> absolutely. >> reporter: he knows his way around. >> absolutely. >> reporter: now, once again,

karl karlsen had to pull himself out of the depths of tragedy. it would take a while, but this time he seemed to come out of it a changed man. karl got fired up by a new plan to start a gourmet duck farm and began raising thousands of ducks to sell to new york restaurants. he and cindy even found themselves starring in an episode of "pitchin' in," a food network canada series. >> i think he had these visions that he was going to be this famous person, rich and famous. >> reporter: cindy watched her husband's ego swell with all the attention. and she worried. it had been less than three years since levi died, yet karl seemed to be having the time of his life. was that normal? >> just like an intuition that something just was not right. >> reporter: she kept thinking about the day levi died. it turns out mike was uneasy about it too. what did karl said to you after levi's death?

>> not a lot. i went to the hospital and i was in the room with levi. and karl came in the room. and i don't know what i wanted him to say, but he says, "how do i explain this?" >> reporter: what did he mean by that? >> no idea. >> reporter: mike didn't share his misgivings about karl with cindy, but she had plenty of her own. she fought them for a while until one day she had to admit to herself -- >> oh, my god, i think he did it. you know. but then i would also talk myself out of it. i would tell myself, you know, you're crazy. we weren't even home at the time. >> reporter: officials called it an accident. and yet -- >> again these thoughts kept coming up. kept sinking more into a depression. and eventually ended up using alcohol as a way to cope. >> reporter: cindy confided in a couple of friends. they dismissed her fear, but someone did suggest she call a

private investigator. that's how she met steve brown. >> she walked in the door and she looked very frail, physically. emotionally just sickly, weak. >> reporter: cindy told the private investigator about her crazy fear, that her husband had killed his own son. >> cindy proceeded to tell me what happened that day in 2008. >> reporter: and she remembered something. before she and karl left for the funeral, he went to the barn to see levi. and for a few minutes he was alone there with his son. >> karl said he wanted to check on levi before they left, and karl had came back to the vehicle and they drove off for the funeral. karl seemed fine the entire time. normal behavior. >> reporter: but when they came home from the funeral, cindy noticed something else. >> we got out of the car and the first thing that i heard was the

radio in the barn and it was very loud. and it was set on country music. and anybody that knew levi, he would not be caught dead listening to country music. >> reporter: whoever turned the radio on, it probably wasn't levi. could it have been karl? the private investigator found the story troubling, and it set his mind racing about karl. >> i was pretty quiet the rest of the night, just dissecting how could that be? how could somebody do something like that? >> reporter: cindy had thought no one would believe her, but now private investigator steve brown did. he set out to examine phone records and insurance policies. but he also wanted to meet karl karlsen. so he and cindy came up with a plan. but it would require her to take a big risk. >> coming up -- >> i had actually watched an episode of "dateline" and i like had this revelation. >> when "dateline" continues.

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hello. i'm dara brown. here's what's happening. country legend charley pride has died at the age of 86 of covid complications. he was country's first black superstar. pride was born a sharecropper's son in mississippi and rose to fame with songs like "kiss an angel good morning" and "is anybody going to san antone"?" after his career he recorded over 50 top ten country hits. last year he was given a coveted lifetime achievement award at the country music association awards. now back to "dateline." welcome back to "dateline." i'm craig melvin. it was a stunning realization. cindy karlsen believed that her husband karl had killed his son, levi. so did the private investigator she hired to look into the young man's death. armed with a few tactics, she actually learned from

"dateline," sinned which woucin take on a dangerous mission, confronting the man she feared. once again here's andrea canning with "deadly deceit." >> reporter: in november 2011 private investigator steve brown had decided it was time to meet karl karlsen. so he and cindy came up with an audacious plan. >> i said, well, what if i kind of go undercover and befriend karl, if you will, as a marketer, a promoter for your duck business? >> reporter: it was a giant step for cindy and risky. what if karl found out who steve really was. >> no clue this was a private investigator? >> correct. right. and when he came to the house i had to pretend like i was just meeting him for the first time. >> i said where are you now? where do you want to be in a couple years? and karl started telling his

vision, his dream for the duck business, if you will. >> reporter: after that he and karl would drive around the area talk business mostly but one moment stood out when karl was talking about killing farm animals. >> he said i like the old-fashioned way and he came up behind me and lift mid neck up and went like this with his hand. he said, messy, very physical. and i said, karl, we're talking about ducks and chickens, aren't we? >> reporter: steve didn't want to contact the police until he had more evidence. but in february 2012 the decision was taken out of his hands when cindy confided in her cousin. >> i told her my suspicions. but i asked her not to say anything. >> reporter: despite that the cousin promptly called the sheriff's office. john clear was the detective who took the call. he wasted no time in contacting cindy karlsen. >> how'd that go? >> the first thing she said was thank god you called. >> thank god you called. i was so relieved.

>> reporter: detective clear met with cindy karlsen and steve brown, and he paid particular attention when they told him that levi, who never had much money, had taken out an enormous life insurance policy. >> the most useful piece of information was about a $700,000-plus insurance policy that was paid out on levi karlsen. >> reporter: detective clear learned that on november 3rd, 2008 karl helped levi sign up for the policy. the beneficiary? karl himself. >> he actually takes him to see an insurance agent and takes out approximately a $400,000 life insurance policy with a $300,000 accident rider. 17 days later the fatal accident happens. >> reporter: the money was supposed to go to levi's two daughters, but detective clear learned the girls never got a dime. >> there was money spent on a whole multitude of things. home improvement and karl spent

a lot of money on the duck business. there were some huge payouts on that. >> reporter: as he dug deeper, detective clear discovered that karl karlsen had collected on a number of insurance policies over the years. in 1986 karl's new dodge charger caught fire. karl collected $10,000. the fire that killed the horses and took down the barn? paid out nearly $115,000. clear also learned that karlsen had taken out policies on levi's two little girls. karl had no idea he was being investigated, but cindy still wanted to get away from him. so she moved out of the house. after she did, karl sent her a text saying that he had heard she'd been snooping around. she says it scared her. >> it was a threatening text. i can't remember exactly what he said, but it was enough to make me feel like i just couldn't do it any more. >> reporter: she immediately called her son alex, then 16, and told him they had to leave town.

>> she came and got me. and i came out to the car, and i saw that she had packed all of our suitcases and our dogs were in the car. and she had told me that there was an investigation going on because they thought my dad had killed my brother. >> reporter: they started living in hotels. cindy dodged karl's calls and so did alex. but after a few months of that, cindy decided to do something a little more proactive. and she had an inspiration. >> i had actually watched an episode of "dateline" where this woman was recording her mother, and i like had this revelation and i said, you know, i am going to start recording conversations with karl. i thought if i could just get him to confess about the barn fire, that that would show his character. >> reporter: cindy knew karl wanted to see her, maybe get back together. so she went to meet him at a

local restaurant with a small voice recorder tucked under her bra. >> i just started telling him that i was considering getting back together with him, but that i couldn't even consider it unless he started telling me the truth of things that he did. and he said to me, it sounds like you want me to say that i had something to do with levi's death. well, at that moment i knew that we skipped right over the barn fire. i might be able to get him to confess about levi. i had asked him, so did you push the truck or was it hard to push? and he said, no, it wasn't. >> reporter: was that a confession? cindy felt like it was. she rushed the recording over to the police, but it was inaudible and, therefore, useless. still, detective clear believed her enough to ask her to do it again. >> at our request she agreed to be wired up to do a second interview under controlled circumstances.

>> reporter: now she was working with the police, to take down her own husband. she got away with it once. would karl catch on the next time around? >> coming up -- >> i had to convince him that, you know, it wasn't a trap. >> but could she? when "dateline" continues. datel. before nexium 24hr, anna could only imagine a comfortable night's sleep without frequent heartburn waking her up. now, that dream... . ...is her reality. nexium 24hr stops acid before it starts, for all-day, all-night protection. can you imagine 24 hours without heartburn?

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>> reporter: cindy karlsen was willing to play the sympathetic wife with the man she had come to fear and hate. that's how badly she wanted her husband out of her life and locked away. so when police asked her to wear a wire and meet him for lunch again, she jumped at the chance. >> i was actually calm because i knew that karl believed my story of wanting to get back together. >> reporter: abigail's restaurant near seneca falls would be the meeting place. it was mid-november 2012. you had undercover officers in the restaurant? >> we had four in there. >> reporter: were they diners? were they waiters? >> diners. >> reporter: there was very little evidence against karl karlsen, so the detectives desperately needed cindy to get him to repeat what she claimed was his confession to levi's murder. but obviously karl was suspicious. >> part of me feels like i'm walking into a booby trap. >> yeah, i can imagine you would feel that way.

>> i had to convince him that, you know, it wasn't a trap. i offered for him to check my purse. >> reporter: and then she got him back on the subject of that day in 2008. >> i asked you if you pushed the truck and you said yes. >> i didn't push the truck, i said. no, i said i had nothing to do with it. but i said i took advantage of the situation once it happened. and that is exactly what i said to you. >> karl, you told me that you didn't set it up that way, but when you were in there you saw the opportunity. >> no, after it had happened. then i panicked and saw the opportunity. >> reporter: detective clear was struck by that exchange. how could a father call his son's death an opportunity? >> at that moment i felt i understood him to a degree. this is someone who doesn't think like we do. >> reporter: that said, this exchange with cindy was no

confession and the evidence so far was circumstantial. the insurance, the radio, karl's visit to the barn. still detectives believed they had enough to bring him in for questioning. >> go ahead and have a seat. >> reporter: it was the moment of truth. if karlsen refused to speak or if he called in a lawyer, the case could evaporate. but karlsen couldn't resist talking. about himself. >> you know, you work -- i mean, i work multiple jobs and stuff like that. and i did. i worked my ass off. >> we were talking about his favorite subject, him. >> reporter: karl said he found levi dead after returning home, just like he told the police in 2008. >> went out there and found him. and then we went to the hospital. >> what do you mean you found him? >> i found him dead. the truck was on him. >> reporter: karlsen insisted levi's death was an accident, it couldn't have been anything else. >> you don't kill your son. you don't kill anybody for money. >> reporter: detective clear

decided to change tactics. >> there's not a conscience to play to, there's not empathy to play to. what do we play to? what does he have? well, he has an ego. and it's a big one. so that's the strategy i shifted to. which is i gave him a lot of sympathy and a lot of attention. >> reporter: it seemed to work. as the hours ticked by karlsen's story began to change. and then he dropped a bombshell. >> version two came out where he admitted that he -- that levi was already dead before they left to go to the funeral. >> i made a decision to walk out on my son and not get him out from underneath the truck. >> reporter: why? >> i panicked. >> at that point there is no doubt in my mind what happened here. >> reporter: detectives continued to push. and as the interrogation stretched into its eighth hour, karlsen finally broke. he admitted he didn't just find levi under the truck, he saw the truck fall, and he

may have even caused it to fall. >> i opened the truck door because i had to get inside to move the linkage for the [ bleep ] truck. when i did, it tipped and it just [ bleep ] fell over. >> reporter: and then clear pushed a little more. and that's when karl admitted he left his son to die. >> the brutal truth is you did kill him. whether, whatever your intent was -- >> i -- >> the action you took caused the truck to fall on him. >> yes, you're right. >> and the inaction of leaving him there -- >> right. contributed or whatever, yeah. >> reporter: so he wasn't painting himself as a cold, calculated killer. >> no. he seemed to think it was a better picture to say i accidentally caused this thing to fall and walked away and left him to die on the floor. >> come with me. you're under arrest. i think you knew that was coming. >> reporter: karl karlsen was charged with second-degree

murder. not long after that he got a lawyer. and when they came to court karl used a walker, claiming old injuries were getting the best of him. his attorney said police coerced karl and the cindy tapes violated spousal privilege. but the judge denied the defense motion to suppress and the trial was set for november 6th, 2013. all these years mike karlsen had misgivings about karl's behavior. but after watching the interrogation video his worst fear was cemented. that his own brother was a killer. and now he had a new fear. as the trial approached, did you think that the evidence was overwhelming and it was pretty clear karl was going to go away? >> no. i was probably more scared as the trial approached. that it wasn't a slam dunk. >> coming up -- a surprise inside and outside

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that long ago california fire that killed levi's mother, christina. they were suspicious about karlsen's behavior that day. christina's family was more than suspicious. they were certain. karl ki8d crilled christina. jeff arnold was the new york state investigator. he thought so too. >> why did you take such an interest in christina's death when you're here in new york stay, that case is in california? >> it became personal to me because she's just a great human being who had everything to look forward to in life. >> reporter: investigator arnold was asked to help out early in the karlsen investigation, and he took a particular interest in christina and the fire that killed her. >> just imagine yourself, you're in this bathroom taking a bath and you smell smoke. and it's coming through your door and there's this inferno sitting outside the door. and you turn to the only window in the bathroom and it's covered with a sheet of plywood.

>> reporter: investigator arnold says that pretty much everything karl karlsen has ever said about the fire is a lie. beginning with the kerosene that fueled it. >> he says that the kerosene got spilled in the house on sunday. >> okay. >> reporter: detective clear learned that on november 3rd, 2008 karl helped levi sign up for the policy. the beneficiary? karl himself. it could only mean one thing. >> karl poured the kerosene all over the clothes and all over the floor and ignited it. within seconds after pouring it. >> reporter: back in 1991 karlsen told law enforcement it could have been a dryer, a heater or a utility light that touched off the blaze. >> none of these happened. >> reporter: arnold learned the arson investigator could find no accidental ignition source. the investigator's conclusion? the fire was deliberately set. and the coroner's report said

christina died of smoke inhalation as opposed to burns, raising the question, didn't karlsen have time to save his wife? >> he's standing on the porch within a foot or two from this p plywood-covered window where christina is in dire need of his help. he doesn't even reach for one tool. >> reporter: arnold knew that christina's family had always wondered about that window and about some other things that happened after she died. colette told police something christina's little daughter erin said right after the fire. >> she said, "i heard mommy calling for daddy, but daddy just drove away." so within an hour, you know, hearing my niece telling me hey, mom was alive when he drove away. >> reporter: just four days after the fire karl karlsen abruptly left california with his three kids, erin, katie, and levi. sources in california told us that once karlsen was back in

new york investigators begged their bosses to let them follow him there for questioning but they say they were told no, the county couldn't afford it. >> the investigators wanted to go to new york. calaveras county wouldn't let them spend the money. >> reporter: just weeks after they left colette learned that karl had taken out a $200,000 insurance policy on christina's life and the policy paid off. colette came to believe and investigator arnold agrees that karlsen killed christina for the same reason he killed levi. money. two decades after christina's death, as karl karlsen dueled with detectives in that seneca county interrogation room, he suddenly had to face questions about that long-ago fire from a well-prepared jeff arnold. >> telling me about the fire with your first wife that

concerned them. >> reporter: arnold was looking for inconsistencies. lies. he asked karlsen about the window. >> so you boarded that up a day before? >> months before. >> months before? >> months before. >> we have a witness that shows up at the house on the 31st of december, one day prior to the fire, and that window was not boarded up. >> reporter: karlsen also told arnold he suffered awful injuries as he rescued his children and that the fire was so intense he couldn't save christina. >> what happened is when the -- when i broke the window i got hit with a fireball. it hit me right in the face. blew me off the front porch. burnt my eyelids together. burned skin off my face. burned my mustache. any whiskers. i had hair -- >> did they take you to the hospital? >> oh, yeah. >> what hospital did you go to? >> i don't even know. >> reporter: arnold had evidence that karlsen escaped the fire

with only a small burn. so now after he listened to karl talk about the fire, the window, and the rescue of his children he fired back. >> your wife's in a boarded-up little room and you hear her calling your name 600 feet away? >> it wasn't calling. it was screaming. >> screaming your name. and yet you're able to get blown off the porch, open your eyes. your son's uninjured. you're able to grab your uninjured son where this explosion just took place, without a mark on him take him out of the house. run around, miraculously save your two daughters and let your wife -- and let your wife perish in this fire. >> i did not -- >> with no attempt to rip that plywood board off that house and get into that bathroom and help her. >> by that time the fire was all the way around. what am i going to do? >> reporter: karlsen insisted his first wife's death was a tragic accident. that's the same thing he was saying about levi's death. but on november 6th, 2013 the very day his trial in levi's case was supposed to begin he

surprised nearly everyone and took a plea. >> karl karlsen pled guilty to murder in the second degree in seneca county court. taking responsibility for the death of his son levi. >> it's called depraved indifference murder. >> reporter: seneca county d.a. barry porsche said karlsen would be given the minimum sentence, 15 years to life. at that same news conference levi's sisters, erin and katie, thanked the investigation team. but then erin turned to the tragedy that shattered her childhood and changed her family forever. >> we've been waiting just about 24 years now for some closure for things that transpired in california. you know, things that i will never be able to forget. things that my family will never be able to overcome. >> reporter: it appeared someone was listening. in 2014 karl karlsen was charged with first-degree murder in the 1991 death of his wife, christina.

he was extradited to calaveras county in california, where he pleaded not guilty. then in january 2020 the case went to trial. the prosecution made the case that karlsen killed christina for the same reasons he killed levi. >> the life insurance. life insurance on his wife for $200,000. >> reporter: just three weeks after karl took out that policy christina was dead. this was his plan, the d.a. said. this was karlsen's deadly m.o. but now it was the defense's turn to fight back. karl's attorneys told jurors they couldn't draw any conclusions based on karl's guilty plea in levi's death. >> does karl karlsen deserve a fair trial? now, some people would say, well, he admitted to killing his son in new york, he doesn't deserve a fair trial. and to that i'd say if you believe that today based just on

that fact, you have an obligation to let the court know that you can't be fair. >> reporter: now it was up to the jurors. deliberations lasted two days. and then the verdict came in. >> we the jury find the defendant, karl holger karlsen, guilty of murder in the first degree. >> reporter: inside the courtroom christina's family clung to each other in relief. her sister colette was there too. >> when they read it, it was -- it was a good moment. >> reporter: karl karlsen was later sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole. he's appealed his conviction. 29 years after a fire took christina karlsen's life her family finally has answers. but even time, they say, doesn't heal all wounds. >> i don't think you can put a time when you would miss someone the most.

the memories are good. i still have her pictures up around my home. and i'm not going to take those down. and so she's right there in my bedroom with me at all times. i'm craig melvin. >> i'm natalie morales. >> this is "dateline." it was horrifying. this was my mom, a vibrant woman, just ripped out of the world. everything that we saw in our life was all shattered. he betrayed us to our very core. >> they were a stunning couple, a doctor and a beauty queen. >> she won homecoming queen. she did modeling. >> but the day she was found dead in the tub -- >> who's in the bathtub?