hi there, everyone. it's 4:00 in the east. we come on the air amid a crush of breaking news events that also account for a good deal of history in the making.

december 14th is the day already marked in the history books. it's the tragic anniversary of the massacre as andy hook elementary school. december 14th happens to be the anniversary of the death of george washington, who died on this day in 1799. but when the history of these times is written, december 14th, 2020, will warrant a double entry. today, december 14th, 2020, the day that we passed the solemn milestone of 300,000 coronavirus deaths right here in the united states. also marks the first day of the vaccine rollout in this country for the deadly coronavirus pandemic. these images of front line health care workers and residents of nursing homes are filling our televisions today and providing a real-time solve to our pandemic-weary nation. friday's late-night approval of the pfizer vaccine, which is expected to pave the way for approvals of similar vaccines in the coming weeks and months.

today, december 14th, 2020, also marks the day that is typically noted by broadcasts like this one as a procedural milestone, but not necessarily a politically significant one. but today's convening of the electoral college takes on m monumental important. georgia, pennsylvania, wisconsin, michigan. the swing states who donald trump has spent attacking in his attempt to overturn their state's votes for joe biden. today, all those states electors cementing joe biden's win. in georgia, the first electoral votes cast for a democratic presidential candidate in nearly 30 years. it was presided over by stacey abrams who called it a moment she's dreamed of all her life, one she says honors the very foundations of this country's democracy. >> this is not a moment of partisanship, this is a moment

of patriotism. because we came together to do something that has been done time and again in memorial for more than 200 years. and because we are, there is a united states of america. and it is on behalf of the incoming president of the united states, who has said that he may be a democrat, but he intends to be the president of all of these united states, that i say thank you to georgia for aloying us to speak on your behalf and to usher in the next administration. thank you so much. >> joe biden, a president for all americans that will include donald trump's allies in the republican party who continue to defy all logic, reason and law, for proceeding with their baseless fight to overturn the result. we should note that the votes

were being cast as wisconsin's state supreme court rejected trump's lawyers lingering legal challenge in their state. that's days after the lawsuit brought by texas to invalidate the will of voters in four other states was rejected by the united states supreme court, but only after two-thirds of the republicans in the house of representatives signed on. in the wake of all of that, at this hour, we turn our focus to california, which is set to cast its 55 electoral votes, votes that will like littly put joe b over the top and officially cement his victory as president-elect of the united states. it will signal the complete failure and collapse of a bid by donald trump and a completely complicit gop to steal an election they lost fair and square. this is where we start today with some of our most favorite reporters and friends. white house correspondent for

pbs news hour yamiche alcindor is back. also joining us, cofounder of the lincoln project, steve schmidt here. and former u.s. senator, claire mccaskill. just wanted to talk to all of you about this historic day. it's almost too much to process, but -- this step in becoming president usually isn't marked in the way we're marking it, because of donald trump's attack on the democracy. it was in a more fragile state than it usually is on this day. >> you know, today is a day that i'm extremely happy, and i haven't felt really happy for awhile. you know, we've had this man, you know, driving the bus of denial full of republican elected officials off the cliff of democracy now for weeks on end and today, i got to watch live an african-american health care front line worker take the

first vaccine. we're going to have our laws hold with the help of judges of both parties, many appointed by trump, across the country saying time and time again, you know, almost, what, 60 times now, that there is no evidence of any kind of fraud. and these electoral votes are going to be cast. my kitchen and house smells like christmas and today i feel like christmas. it's a great day, nicolle. >> the history will be marked by an address by president-elect joe biden at 7:30 tonight. yamiche, we just got our first excerpts of this speech. democracy prevailed. we the people voted. faith in our institutions held. the integrity of our elections remains intact. and so, now it is time to turn the page, to unite, to heal. as i said through this campaign,

i will be a president for all americans. i will work just as hard for those of you who didn't vote for me as i will for those who did. there's urgent work in front of all of us, getting the pandemic under control and getting the nation vaccinated against this virus, delivering immediate economic help so badly needed by americans hurting today and building our economy back better than ever. that's our first excerpt from an address that president-elect joe biden is expected to give to the nation at 7:30 p.m. eastern. yamiche, even in victory, he is sounding a signal that is laser focused on this mission of uniting what he is more aware of than any of us, this badly divided country. a country so divided that on friday, 126 elected representatives, people who elect some of the voters in those states that they sought to overturn the outcome of, joe biden seeming to, at least reor the icily, reach an open hand to

the whole country, including those who tried to steal an election from him. >> that's right. on this historic day, what we're seeing the electoral college officially put into practice the fact that joe biden is going to be the winner of this election. it is also a solemn day, because 300,000 americans have died of the coronavirus pandemic. and people who are close to president-elect biden say he is very aware that this challenge is going to really call for all americans to take this patriotic step to try to keep us all safe together, that we all have to do our part. he's going to be calling for people to be wearing masks in the first 100 days of his election. but this speech tonight is really joe biden doing something that president trump never got around to doing, which is pivoting away from the campaign and ginto governing and reachin out across the aisle, to say, all americans, i'm your president, i'm here to represent your needs. and pert of that excerpt we also got, he's speaking to voters who didn't vote for him as well as those who voted.

we have to remind people, this was not a close election. joe biden won by 7 million votes. when you look at the popular vote, but he's still saying, look, i'm going to need everyone to really buy into the fact that we as americans need to come together to fight this virus. and he's hoping that that will be the thing that americans can do. i think that's going to be the greatest challenge is, how is he going to get so many americans who still believe president trump making all sorts of false claims, how is he going to get people to buy into the fact that he's now the president, president-elect, but they're going to have to buy into the fact that the coronavirus pandemic isn't the flu, it isn't something to downplay, as president trump has been doing for so long. >> and steve schmidt, i follow you on twitter, i know you've been very engaged this weekend. and i know that in your view, joe biden isn't just going to have to convince americans that the vaccine is safe and we need to take it to protect ourselves and the community, isn't just going to have to rebuild an economy, reboot our alliances, badly damaged by four years of

donald trump's arbitrary conduct on the foreign policy stage, it seems to be your view that he's going to have to sell democracy again to the 76 million americans who were willing to throw it down the drain after november. >> there's no question that that's true. look, i agree with claire. today is a happy day. it sets the cements the reality donald trump has been fired by the american people and he will not have political power in this country come noon on january 30th and that's a very good thing from where i sit, but at the end of the day, we saw american democracy poisoned over the course of november. american democracy relies on faith and belief in the legitimacy of the system from the people who grant it authority under our system of rule. what it requires is one side being able and willing to lose an election, to concede power

temporarily in that virtuous circle. we should think about what we saw in washington, d.c. this weekend. what is it that we saw this weekend in washington? what was it? they weren't wearing brown and black uniforms like they would have in italy or in germany in the 1920s or 1930s, but they're the same people. what we saw was right wing violence in the nation's capi l capital. this is political violence. this is a fascistic organization. when you have more than a majority of the republicans in the house through their signing of that brief making a political declaration, and let's be clear about this, it's not a legal decollar rax, it's a junk

lawsuit, it's a political declaration, and it's a declaration of repudiation against our independence, against a fundamental and most notional ideas of the country. and that political declaration is one that you can't walk back from. they've crossed the rubicon, so to speak. liz cheney is the leader of the conservatives in the house of representative. kevin mccarthy is the leader of the house autocrats. when 126 of them have crossed that line, asserting that donald trump won an election that they all -- every one of them, except the handful of truly, truly crazy ones, know for sure intellectually that in fact joe biden won, the fact that they did that, that they're willing to poison american democracy, means that there's two sides in this political debate in this

country, and that american poll sicks is realigned. there's a pro democracy coalition and there's another side. and on that other side, which is trying to throw out hundreds of thousands of black votes to keep trump in power, whose faithless to the ideas and ideals of american democracy, we can never lose another presidential election to these people again, because maybe next time, the leader will be more able, more competent and the plan will look more detailed and more organized and less like a farce. but this is a dangerous hour we find ourselves in in a country, and nobody should be naive about that. >> steve, do you have any doubt that donald trump would have stolen this election if at any of these junctures, either the recounts or the legal challenges or harassing and pressuring the electors, and i think pence has

a role to play next week -- do you have any doubt that it was trump's intention to steal the election? >> i have no doubt at all. the unknown in this equation is how many people would cross that river with him? that would seek to repudiate the american idea and ideal and the sacrifice of 13 generations of american patriots in blood who gave us our american birthright. none at all. what's surprising is that we have 17 or 18 out of 25 republican attorney generals signed onto this nonsense to disenfranchise the will of the american people. it was rejected and they lost, but we know -- we now know that a very substantial part of the republican political establishment in this country is hostile to democracy. we've never seen something like this before. so, like we're seeing all over the world, we have seen the

conservative mooument movement metastasize into this menace that's come out with a lot of fascistic markers that's autocratic and not faithful to the ideas of american democracy, which have bound both parties together for all of their history and before that, through the 244-year history of the united states. >> claire mccaskill, i want to bring you in on this and i associate myself with both of your suggestions that this is a happy day, but i do think what joe biden is now responsible goverening is not the same country that we thought we lived in four years ago or before this gop coup attempt. attempted homicide is still a crime, technically and legally

speaking, and this is a failed coup, but an attempted coup, and violence and threat of violence in places well beyond the beltway. i want to read to you what's happening at the michigan state capitol today. this is nbc's reporting. the michigan capital and the state legislature will be shut down monday because of, quote, credit bl tlement credible threats of violence. the michigan state senate work spaces were closed and the michigan state majority leader spokesman, amber mccann, said this, quote, the decision was made is not because of an does pated protests, but was made based on credible threats of violence. it's more than an assault on the idea and ideals of democracy, it's a, quote, credible threat of violence against people carrying out the necessary and constituti constitutionally mandated steps of our democratic process, claire.

>> yeah, and here's the thing. i am so sick and tired of begging republicans to step up and do the right thing. i'm just worn slick trying to get them to step up, but at this moment, we are now careening towards some place that's dangerous. i mean, let's think about, for a minute, the hypocrisy of the republicans talking about religious liberty and talking about how we have to protect the first amendment and religious liberty. we have to really, because it's under assault by the left. the proud boys, a group of thugs, mar raiders, we roaming around washington over the weekend, under cover of darkness, ripping banners off churches. now let's just let that sink in. they were ripping banners off churches.

now, a church has the right to put a banner on their edifice. they have a right to freedom of speech in the practice of their religion. the notion that we've heard nothing from these hypocrites about religious freedom. we've got a candidate down in georgia lecturing a man of god who preaches from martin luther king's pulpit every sunday, lecturing him about his sermons and we have the proud boys ripping banners off churches and there's nothing that's being said. it is unbelievable. and if you listen to the words at those rallies, and i did, it was chilling. they have telling people to take up arms, they are calling for martial law. it is now time. this is not, oh, let it run its course and i can't afford to really make the hard core trump

base mad -- somebody's going to get killed, nicolle, and, you know, we already have proud boys in a knife altercation as they were attacking a black man who was by himself in washington over the weekend and he struck out with a knife, trying to protect himself. so, it is really very dangerous right now in terms of the rhetoric that the president of united states is embracing and come on. maybe the republicans in the senate didn't sign on this ridiculous loony toons lawsuit that went to the supreme court, but they are still too damn quiet. they need to speak up. >> yamiche, i want to just move the goal posts on this. they're not quiet because they don't have the courage, at this point, i think they're quiet because they're fine with it. i don't think there's anything else to detect. and i think that when you look at the reporting, and yamiche, i want to ask you about this. "the times" is reporting that

trump is not done. nowhere close to done. as the president refusing to concede, a group of backers in congress is plotting a final stage challenge on the floor of the house of representatives in florida, to pose another awkward test of allegiance for republicans who have hoped the electoral vote this week would be the final word. if we are testing republicans this week, yamiche, you know, i'll give you the answer. let me put them into focus. the republicans will fail. the republicans are trump's servants, slaves, whatever you want to call them, but they are now soldiers in the war against democracy and the silence today and the silence in the face of everything claire just described is proof of it. they now no longer are sort of the kinds of politicians who get on the record when they fear violence, which used to be a trip wire for any politician at

any level, federal, state or local. a trip wire used to be a concern of violence. the republicans seem to have long passed that and i wonder if you're picking up any concern from any corners of the trump white house staff or the republicans in congress or anybody that you cover. >> the number one thing i say i hear from people, republicans in particular, when i put the question to them, why aren't you speaking? why aren't you saying more? they say, what do you expect us to do? what do you want us to do? republicans are in this situation where they are in some ways, at least based on my reporting, almost in denial that they can speak out against president trump and have an impact. they make it seem as though when president trump is out here and supporters are out here doing all this stuff, inciting violence, saying all these things that are clearly not true, that they somehow are just hostages in a party where president trump has all of the power. so, i think in some ways, that might be them making an excuse,

but it's not surprising that you see in "the new york times" that president trump will try some last ditch effort that will surely fail, again, because there is no one that's going to try to tell president trump or even can tell president trump, stop, it's time to stop, it's time to move on, it's time to turn the page. we just don't see that happening. instead, you see the gop that is going to continue to back president trump, even when it's january 21st and donald trump is still whistling into the wind, you are going to expect republicans to back the president. yes, maybe it's because they are scared of their own base, maybe they are cowcowards, maybe some believe what the president is saying, i don't think what we're seeing is going to change much at all. and i think we say that a lot, but in some ways, this is a moment in time when american democracy was really, really tried. it was almost broken in some ways and even in the end, we saw that the elected officials, i

should say, some elected officials, some republicans, were standing by the president. we also, of course, have seen the state republicans, like those, the governor of georgia, who, by the way, isn't exactly a hero to many, but he's someone who is refusing to do some of the things that the president is doing, sand the president is already lashing out at him. >> it is the best summary of the state of the republican party that i've heard in a long time. yamiche, thank you so much for starting us off. claire and steve are sticking around for more. when we come back, more on the incredible scientific feat of already delivering nearly 3 million vaccines into the arms of americans. they are attempting to get that done this week. we'll look at the outlets for the rest of us, the rest of the country, and the victory lap donald trump appears to be trying to take around that. plus, michigan today, ahead of its electoral vote, was on edge, with protests outside the state capitol and legislative

buildings closed due to credible threats of violence. we'll get a live report there. and those electoral college votes were supposed to be a nonevent. a procedural milestone, an afterthought, but this is donald trump. but we'll get steve kornacki to help explain and show us the state-by-state march towards joe biden's closely watched procedural victory there. all those story coies coming up. don't go anywhere. wrinkles send the wrong message. help prevent them before they start with downy wrinkleguard. hey! bud. hey, pop pop! so you won't get caught with wrinkles again. [woman laughs] ...little things... ...can become your big moment. that's why there's otezla. otezla is not a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently.

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♪ on the third day of croodsmas my neighbor gave to me ♪ ♪ three.♪. dun, dun, duns. ♪ 2 shrieking girls ♪ and a... whoa, peanut toe. ♪ in a pack of croodaceous families ♪ go to watchcroods.com. really somewhat of an historic day to get vaccine boo the arms at a time frame that is really unprecedented. less than a year, about 11

months from the time that we first got the genetic sequence of the virus on january 9th or 10th. really all good news. it really goes to show how science well done can really get us out of a very difficult situation. >> that was dr. anthony fauci with our colleague hallie jackson this morning on the remarkable and hopeful sign of what's happening right now, as the first federally aproofed covid-19 vaccine doses are being administered in the united states today. by the end of this week, 2.9 million doses will be distributed to nursing home staff and residents and front line health care workers in all 50 states. it's a long-awaited milestone as the united states officially surpassed 300,000 covid fatalities earlier today and now averages more than 2,300 deaths a day and more than 209,000 new infections every day. "the washington post" writing this today on the quote,

lightning fast development of the vaccine, saying it happened because of and despite donald trump. quote, the lifelong businessman refused to wear a mask himself was able to understand vaccines as something else entirely. a deliverable that he could help make happen with money. unlike a mask, a vaek seen represented a display of american technological prowess, an appealing solution that didn't require painful steps. the race to develop a vaccine became intensely politicized by the president, but trust in a prosecondive vaccine plummeting apparently as a result. joining our conversation, dr. vin gupta, lucky for us, claire is still around. dr. gupta, i like to always kind of communicate to our viewers and folks anywhere as this conversation about a vaccine shifts from will we have one to will it be safe. let me play it and then we'll

talk about it. >> everyone is talking about what a miracle the vaccines are, and they are a miracle in one sense, but you know, sometimes people think that these vaccines just popped out of nowhere over a period of four months and one of the things i've been trying to explain to people, if they think vaccines are rushed, this is not a four-month process. this is a 17-year process. the discovery and development of vaccines for coronaviruses began 17 years ago after sars emerged in 2003. >> so, dr. gupta, from your view, what is the best way to talk about this milestone, the distribution, without making people feel like sticks were rubbed together and this was a rush job? what is sort of the scientific way of talking about where we are in the vaccination discovery and administration? >> good afternoon, nicolle. i'm so glad that dr. hotez phrased it the way he did, which is to say, and there hasn't been enough focus on this, you're right, that actually every step

of the research and development process for this vaccine has been followed. i know there's been political noise that's been districting, but every step has been followed rigorously and most rigorously here in the united states when it comes to scientific oversight. that's why we've, our fda took some extra time, they wanted extra time to look at the data, to have public oversight, indepen debit advisory oversight. no one is questioning its effectiveness, what i will say, what i hear directly, i'm getting this vaccine on wednesday in our icu, what i'll say is, what i'm hearing from viewers, from every day americans is, is it safe? and there's confusion on, well, if you've had a food allergy, can you get the vaccine? and this is what i will say. anybody that has had any type of severe allergy, nicolle, so, if you had shortness of breath after a food, a medication or a vaccine, if you've had a skin rash, if you feel like you're going to faint, something along

those lines, have a conversation with your clinical provider. but let me emphasize this, as we approach 300,000 americans dead, icus are filled across the country, that it's vastly easier if you fall into that very rare group that might have an allergic reaction, one, there's other vaccines coming out, number two, if you had an adverse effect because you got the vaccine in a monitored setting in a hospital, i can treat you for that adverse reaction readily and get you out the door by the next morning, potentially. we have a really challenging time treating covid-19 critical illness. and anybody from 16 years of age on up i've seen in the icu. this is sparing nobody and we need to be clear on this, that it's much better to manage the effects, any rare ill effects from the vaccine than it is to continue to deal with this terrible virus. >> i think that's the message that feels like it needs to cut through all this political noise

and tragically, even the vaccine events that the current president and the president-elect had in the last, you know, seven days, were parallel and not united, i mean, how helpful would it be from a perspective on the front lines, to around the question of vaccinations, have all of our political sites, and this is maybe a fantasy, to sort of lay down our political ideas around this vaccine? >> it would be vital, nicolle. we've talked about, what is the best way -- i think one of it is, front line health care workers messaging on what covid-19 critical illness looks like. so many friends from loved ones in icus, having them talk about that experience, it's awful. but also having, for example, somebody who i've been critical of, senator rand paul, who is a

physician, or say sean hannity, folks that have countered with misinformation, disinformation over the last nine months, reaching out to them, say, will you message on this? people who have a platform with their respective audiences. i think no stone should be left unturned to see if we can have influencers across the political spectrum message on this. >> i want to bring claire in. we just learned that president-elect biden has said that he will get the vaccine himself as soon as and at the direction ofanthony fauci and publicly if that's possible. this picture seems to be filling in from on high. how do you match it with an effort to make sure that the most vulnerable in our society, i mean, because it seems like what we learned from covid is if you don't take care of the people literally living in poverty or not able to do things

like social distance and work from home, you're still nowhere in fighting the coronavirus pandemic. >> well, like so many other issues, nicolle, the most powerful messengers on the effectiveness and the safety of the vaccine are going to be people's doctors. that's why i think it's so important that the national medical society, which is the organization of african-american doctors in the country, are working hard on their messaging. our front line health care workers here in the st. louis area are working hard on their messaging. people who have a question about the vaccine should just simply call their doctor. if you trust your doctor to tell you when you're sick and to tell you what medicine to take, then certainly you should trust your doctor about this vaccine. and i've got to give a shoutout here, we spend a lot of time, as we should, thanking the front line workers in health care, thanking those people, those icu

nurses, those critical care docs all over the country, we have applauded them, we have sent them pizza, question have done lots of things to show our love and respect, but we also need to show some love and respect today for the scientists. they toil away in obscurity, and you know what these guys are, these men and women? they're deep state scientists, and i say that as a term of respect, in that they have toiled for years, many times relying on federal dollars for their research and they are somebody who -- they're experts. and that's really what deep state mean s in many instances, they're experts in their field. and we need to take a hat off to those scientists who worked around the clock to get this vaccine in a position that it is now, where we're going to begin protecting people very, very quickly from what has been the deadliest pandemic in our country's history.

>> dr. gupta, i'll give you the last word on claire's tribute to science and scientists. i'm sure that if we sort of reorient ourselves in that direction, that takes care of the political skirmishes all on its own. >> aisle just amplify what senator mccaskill said, i couldn't agree more. it's our only way out, on the backs of the men and women who developed this vaccine. worlds can't express our gratitude. if i can say in ten seconds here, i'm getting this question a lot, to all your viewers out there, please do not travel, whatsoever. i get questions from parents who have students in college -- >> yeah. >> whose dorms are closing, i recognize that it's easy for me to say, it's hard to implement. in that case, if they are coming home because dorms are closing, make sure they mask and face shield on the flight and that you are masked in-house at least seven days and as quarantined as possible, because inadvertent

exposure to this virus is leading loved ones into the icu. i'm hearing about it, seeing it with my own eyes. it's real. if you can stay where you're at, stay where you're at. >> dr. gupta, that's so important and that is the conversation people are actually having in their lives. if you could come back and spend some time with us tomorrow or the next day, let's spend some time really laying out and detailing what people should do with some contingency plans for the holidays. claire mccaskill, thank you for spending the first half of this hour with us. thank you both. up next, delicates cast their votes for joe biden, but it wasn't without cause for concern. members of the electoral college needed a police escort today. we have a live report from lansing just ahead. don't go anywhere.

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a short time ago, michigan's 16 delegates to the electoral college officially cast their votes for president-elect joe biden. it's a procedural move that happens without any drama every four years, but this year, this year's different. and michigan is on edge with capital buildings closed due to credible threats of violence there. nbc news correspondent von hi hilliard is in michigan for us. what's the feeling around there? i know this was not a closure due to the -- any expectations that the protests would get out of hand, but really a credible

threat of violence there. >> reporter: credible threats of violence within the capital building. you know, it was a ledgislaturg official that told house members and senators not to come to work today. i should just note, as you can hear the audio behind me, where we find ourselves in december of 2020, a lot of our conversations on the road are not about policy anymore, instead, it's about the safety and well-being, along with this gentleman, i also talked to the 96-year-old man named michael, a resident of michigan who is in a wheelchair and wheeled out of this state capitol building behind me this evening, accompanied by two michigan state police officers. he was an elector today, for the first time in his life. for 70 years, he's volunteered for the democratic party. he was one of those electors here today at a time in which the capitol grounds had to be

shut out of concerns for the safety and well being of those electors, nicolle. >> vaughn, is the gentleman behind you against the election of joe biden? >> we look forward to engaging in a conversation with him as soon as the hit was done here. it was the republican legislator earlier today, nicolle, who went on a local radio program, again, a republican slate legislator who suggested they were going to have a hail mary effort here today to halt this electoral college meeting from happening here in michigan. that ultimately, because he did not even tamp down the expectation that violence could be involved. that led to the gop house speaker here who put out a scathing two-letter statement, saying that not only was that legislator's committee assignments revoked, but that violence would not be accepted

and that joe biden would walk away with the electors here today. ultimately, it was the leadership of that house speaker that made that individual and essentially the question was potentially quash any of those resistance efforts here inside of the michigan capitol here tonight. >> vaughn, let me just ask you to move over. i want people to see what's happening behind you, because he's only allowed to do that because his side lost. he's only allowed to protest. let me see him. just tell him when you get a chance that the result today makes it more likely that he can do that all day, every day, if that's what he wants. vaughn, thank you for your heroic reporting there in lansing, michigan, thank you for spending time for us. >> reporter: it will be nice to have a conversation. and it's going to take republican leadership, like the

gop house speaker today, but also in washington, d.c., because no longer we're able to have conversations about taxation, about health care, about foreign policy with folks on the ground anymore, because of the division over the basic belief of whether there's integrity if our election system. this is a tough time with the public right now, if i could, nicolle. >> i really appreciate what you just said, because i think -- i've been a fan of your reporting and i'm so glad that we get to showcase it here on this show, but what you just said is true. you pound the pavement and talk to people of all different political persuasions, you can't turn around and ask him what he hopes a biden presidency will do, because he doesn't accept the election. and your reporting is so important in helping us understand the things that still divide us. vaughn, you are my hero of the day. thank you so much, my friend. when we come back, we regetting closer to president-elect biden's procedure all milestone being passed today. the next big state to vote and make it official for joe biden

and kamala harris will be california. we'll bring in steve kornacki for that and another look at the map. what's next. don't go anywhere. tonight... i'll be eating roasted cauliflower tacos with spicy chipotle sauce. [doorbell chimes] thank you. [puck scores] oooow yeah!! i wasn't ready! you want cheese to go with that whine??

see yourself. welcome back to the mirror. and know you're not alone because this is not just a mirror. it's an unstoppable community. come on jessie one

more. it's a race across time gee zones. come on you two, lets go. a gift for the whole family. so join in now and see your best self in the mirror. . today's nationwide state by state voting of the electoral college for joe biden and kamala harris will win the electors, a final step after winning the white house in november has traditionally not bebeen the

stuff of must watch live television but here we are watching and waiting and counting again for them to pass the 270 electoral votes. so we brought back the big board. and that means we brought back correspondent steve kornacki. where are we? and why are we here? why is this an event in this year? >> yeah, i mean so the basic heres, when you go out and you vote on election day, you vote for biden, you vote for trump or whoever you vote for but then you're setting off a process, the electoral college process and it is about a month after the election that the slates of electors, that is what you are choosing on election day, a slate of electors, if you voted for biden, you're choosing his late of electors. that is what happens across the country, the state electors chosen through this election on election day, they meet and they

formally cast their votes. this is the electoral college and so again what you saw put in place on election day was 306 electoral votes for biden and 232 for trump. and that is ratified and watching it play out. it is almost complete at this hour. right now they've had a number of the meetings in states across the country. the states colors in here are the state where's the eelectors have met and biden is up at 240 and trump is at 232. you could see the drama right now is on the pacific coast. so a few minutes ago in the state capital in salem, oregon, where there are seven votes, i almost forgot how to do this, where there are seven electoral votes, they're meeting right now. probably in the next few minutes they'll report out the seven votes for biden so that would then put biden at 247. that is within a couple of minutes from now.

and then you go to sacramento in california, in the state assembly chamber, the electors will meet there and they're convening at 5:00 eastern, that is eight minutes from now, 2:00 pacific time, and in california with the 55 electoral votes, when that process finishes probably sometime in the 5:00 eastern hour, that 247 for joe biden, he would then we presume 55 from that and that would be at 302 and over 270 and then officially be the president-elect and then would you still have tonight by the way never forget about hawaii. four votes in hawaii. 7:00 they meet tonight when that finishes, that 302 will then be at 306, we believe, for joe biden. 306, and 232. every once in a while you get a faithless elector, who pledged for one candidate and who doesn't do that and so far today, all of the trump electors

have voted for trump and all of the biden electors have voted for biden. so we're matching what we saw on election day. and again, california, probably about an hour from now, that is the big one for biden. >> you snow, steve schmidt, i like the way steve kornacki put it and the big board because we're not still usually tallying people that swallowed the trump gop lies that this is how it works and this is who won. what do you think some of the procedural news events allow for? >> well, i think first of all, nicolle, procedural is the right word in the normal course. but let's stop thinking about this as a procedural event and let's start thinking about this as an act of democratic ritual that takes place every four years on a continuum through

depression, through world war, through assassination, through civil war, on a continuum that has taken place since the birth of the american republic, the oldest in the world. the next part of that ritual is on january 6th when these votes will be opened and in washington, d.c., in the united states congress and counted. historically, traditionally presided over by the vice president of the united states, as president of the senate will announce the votes have been counted and that joe biden will become the president-elect of the united states. this is all part of the great miracle of this country. this idea that we're capable of governing ourselves, and that we decide. and that every four years the story of america is renewed through the swearing of a 35-word oath by the president of the united states.

it is a very simple oath. and it requires them to do their duty, to preserve, protect and defend the constitution of the united states. and with each renewal of that oath, there is a new chapter written in the american story. and during those chapters of the american story, we've seen great advancements. we've seen voting rights extended to women, to african-americans, to other minorities. we've seen over time the magistery of the american process extend full rights to gay people in this country. and the lgbtq community. and we've seen with that renewal every four years over time, this country moved closer to its idea and ideal. martin luther king jr. talked about the moral arc of the universe is long but it bends toward justice. that is what we get to do every four years. so these processes aren't so

much ministerial as they are important parts of the secular ritual of the story and american life and we should treasure them and respect them and we should honor them. >> and that is why we are staying on it today. i appreciate both of you. america's two most favorite steves. thank you very much. the next hour of "deadline: white house" starts after a quick break. don't go anywhere. we're just getting started.

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any minute now we'll bring you to the historic meeting of california's electors, historic because when the state of california formally cast its 55 votes for joe biden, that will push his total over the 270 vote threshold. there by cementing joe biden as the winner of the 020 presidential election and historic because of the extraordinary circumstances surrounding this election. the nationwide meeting of the electoral college happens every four years and regarding as a formality, but this year, donald trump has sought to undermine it for his own benefit, unwilling to accept defeat, trump tries to pressure state legislators to subvert the people of the will in their state and change thur state's electors. but our democracy held and we'll seen reach the moment when it becomes official for joe biden. today not only do we get a new president, but it marks the republican party facing a

choice. a choice between standing with its country, and the process outlined in our constitution, or standing with a man still spewing lies about the election results after dozens and dozens of court defeats, including two major rebukes from the supreme court. the republican party has shown so far with very, very few exceptions, it the party we could all expect to do the latter. this is a dark choice. members of the gop have made. because by signing on to donald trump's delusions and assault on our democracy they're also explicit in the violence that ensues. this weekend, protrump rallies did turn violent. saturday night, four people were stabbed and in olympia, washington, someone was shot. michigan state house and senate offices were closed due to, quote, credible threats of violence. and electors in arizona were forced to meet at an undisclosed

location. our democracy hanging on the deeply damaged by the actions of the gop is where we start this hour. with some of our favorite reports and friends. a.b. stoddard from real clear politics and olivia troy and adviser to defending democracy together is here and former chief of staff to the cia and the department of defense, jeremy bash is here. in the last hour we got excerpts from president-elect joe biden's address. he's expected to address the nation at 7:30 tonight eastern time. let me read some of those to you guys and get your thoughts. president-elect biden is expected to say this, quote, if anybody didn't know it before, we know it now. what beats deep in the heart of americans is democracy, the right to be heard and to have your vote counts, to governor our sfrlz and in america politicians doan take power, the people grant it to them. the flame of democracy was lit

in this nation a long time ago and we now know that nothing, not even a pandemic, or an abusive power, could extinguish that flame. jeremy bash, there is something remiss of watching a foreign country sort of duke it out between the more pro-democratic candidates and the last vestages of that country's autocratic history. and it is just fascinating to hear money american president-elect and joe biden at that talk about democracy prevailing over abuse of power. >> that is amazing that we have to do that here in america, nicolle. because of course we have been the, as ronald reagan said, the shining city on the hill, the beacon of democracy to the world. it is a day of mixed emotions. on the one hand with respect to the pandemic. we crossed the 300,000 death threshold and on the other hand

people began to get the vaccine today. and likewise we have donald trump and his teammates and his members of his own party continuing to attack what the people of the united states chose on election day and on the other hand you have the wheels of government turning and the electoral college meeting and the votes that ratify and joe biden in prime time tonight could articulate that as you said that what the american people did on election day is they turned back the autocraticautocratic inclinations, turned back the domestic terrorist inclination of those seeking to sow violence and hatred and chose a person in joe biden who will now embody, i think, the choice, the will of the people, that the united states is determined to remain a democracy. and this is as big of a moment, nicolle, as we've had in our country maybe since the civil war. >> and jeremy, i just have to follow up. this threat of domestic terrorism is like staring at the

sun. right. it is horrible to be at play where we're covering the threat of political violence, politically motivated anti-democratic violence. steve schmidt described it as such at the last hour and you did so at the top of this hour, with your national security background and credentials, where does your concern lie for the next 30 days about the risk of violence. we had two state capitols have to move their electors out of the capitol for their own safety today. >> well, you've got marauding bands of individuals flooding our streets including in our own capital city. you've got individuals proudly and i use that word proudly specifically saying that they are looking to -- to find individuals that they want to exact violence upon.

i mean, this is lawlessness. this is a form of terrorism because terrorism is politically motivated violence. not designed to achieve a tactical objective but designed to send a political message. and if that political message is amplified by the occupant of the white house, or political leaders in our country, then shame on them. because they will bear the responsibility of violence that unfolds and i just hope that cool heads will prevail and republicans and democrats and independents will come together and acknowledge the reality that joe biden has been elected president of the united states, donald trump will exit stage right and i think a new page will be turned in our country but only if people stand up against donald trump's denialism. if not, we're in for a very long, dark road. >> a.b. stoddard, where do you put the odds of democrats and republicans standing up against what jeremy bash just described? >> right. i think jeremy gets the central

question of what is the response of republicans going to be. there are some new whispers of adult leadership coming from senate leaders like john cornyn and john thune today after the certification of these electors saying it is time to face the music and move on. joe biden is the president-elect. but it depends on how many of them and how forcefully they are going to carry this message forward. because there are plenty of house republicans just proudly and exuberantly promising to blow up this event when the electors are approved in congress on january 6th. and while they won't technically and materially ses seed, it is dark theater. the president will cheer -- clear on and he keeps another list of who dissented and who

went along, certifying the electors for joe biden. so, it is nice to hear joe biden's speech that he's going to give tonight. i'm hopeful, uplifting. that is who joe biden is. but when he said people take power from the people, there are plenty of politicians that have shown us since november 3rd including donald trump that those who join in they're willing to take power and rerail and destroy the system were it not for the elected officials of their own party in the states an the judges that were picked by members of the party who got in their way. and so that is very troubling sign for the strength and fragility of our democracy. so i -- when donald trump said -- he sent out a threatening tweet about even though georgia has certified its elections, that he still wants the governor to overturn everything. he said that last night.

and what he said, we've just begun to fight, i believe him. and that is why we don't know what we're getting into between now and january 20th. >> i share your concern. i want to ask you if you believe mitch mcconnell, who had previously said that this moment would be a moment for him to accept the results. let me show you some vintage mitch mcconnell and see if we believe him then. a.b. stoddard -- >> until the electoral college votes, anyone who is running for office could exhaust concerns about counting in any court of appropriate jurisdiction. it is not unusual, should not be alarming at some point here we'll find out finally who was certified in each of these

states, and the electoral college will determine the winner and that person will be sworn in on january 20th. >> so a.b. stoddard, i said vintage because that is three years -- 30 days ago, it feels like 30 years ago before they became complicit and failed for the attempted coup. and i don't want to call this procedural, but it is seems that no staff or reminder that there is a constitution in the books not a democratic president-elect or republican want to be tyrant. do you think that at any point in the system that the markers or the events jolt any of them back into form, back into reality? >> well, in the last few weeks, mcconnell when pressed about the unbelievable things that the president has been saying to deceive his supporters and to

radicalize, so the future will take care of itself. so, again, i want to stress, just because you support the general services administration beginning a transition or even to call joe biden after tonight, the president-elect because some electors certified it and you could not tell the millions of people that you believe this is a free and fair election, and it was not -- was not created by fraud and the outcome could be trusted and is credible and you're still part of the the fraud and still tearing at the fabric of democracy so is interesting to see what he says in the days to come and i hope he says the right thing. >> olivia, that is the truth. new mexi until you spend every day in front of a microphone to tell of the supporters of donald trump who don't accept the truth, that there was no fraud, bill barr has said to, so.

there was no foreign election interference, until you start undoing the damage of all of the lies and disinformation, you're responsible for scenes like this. "the washington post" reported that multiple people were stabbed after thousands gathered for pro-trump demonstrations. a pastor listened while holding up ore stop the steal sign and will continue to protest as long as the president and vice president believe she should. quote, if president trump accepts it and vice president pence accepts it, then we'll accept it. but right now, this is a godly protest. what are the odds that ruth hillary will get a signal from mike pence or donald trump that they accept the election results? >> i think the odds are zero. to be honest at this point. i have waited for a responsible adult in the room to come forward and say enough is enough.

but every day we're watching the radicalization of this extremism happening before our eyes and it is on both sides. it is extreme left and extreme right. but right now the problem is the main spokesperson for the extreme right happens to be sitting in the oval office. and that is a really scary reality for america right now. people are out in the streets and they're protesting. you don't the white house hung them out and if this is the president of law and order, where was the call for law and order this past weekend across the country. you heard nothing. it was crittets and crickets from the oval office and the president again said nothing. and i worry, i listen to jeremy talk about this and i worry about what is to come in the next 30 days and i don't think that this will fade because i think that until responsible leaders, especially on the republican side, who have supported this president start to speak out, and call this out for what it is, which is

dangerous, dangerous divisiveness and insightment of violence, this will continue to go on. these people believe in it. they're unwavering and not going to fade and they'll continue to march on. >> you were a staffer to mike pence and i've put you on the spot before but this seems to be the last trip wire, the last chance to get off the elevator to hell. do you think that he will do what donald trump wants him to do and mess with the january 6th -- usually an unremarkable roll that he has but if there is a final plan being hatched by congressional allies to use mike pence as latest tool in the failed coup. do you think mike peps nce go a long with that. >> i'm going to go one more time and i'm going to bet on mike pence to do the right thing. because he's the mike pence that we've all known for many years, is the true conservative, mike

pence, whether you agree with some of his social views or religious views or not, but genuinely, for the most part, he's been a decent human being. someone that i got to know working in that office. and at this point, it is our democracy. it is our country and this is for the greater good of america. so i'm going to go one more time and i'm going to hope that he will finally come through for us if it comes down to that. >> i'm moved and inspired and momentarily hopeful for your optimism. i want to give you the last word, jvm jeremy on this from george packer who said america is more divided, more alone and swampier, dirtier, meaning and sicker and debtor and he leaves behind a society in which the bonds of trust are degraded and his example licenses everyone to cheat on taxes and mock

affliction. many of his policies could be reversed or mitigated, it is harder to clear our minds of his lies and restore the shared understanding of reality of agreement however inconvenient that a. is a. and b. is b. on which a democracy depends. >> well, nicolle in, 20 years of working in and around government, i trusted the analysis of those who look to an election, look at the data, look at the evidence and the facts, and diagnosed exactly why one party won and one lost and one candidate prevailed and one candidate did not. and that analysis was brought forward for the express purpose of ensuring in the next election you do better. so from my perspective, if they want to deny the evidence and research, knock yourself go for it. it is only down to your detriment in future elections. there is absolutely no political upside to it. and again i think if you ignore

what just happened in front of the entire world's eyes that joe biden resoundingly defeated donald trump, if you ignore why that happened, will you try to run the same play again, you're going to keep losing. so from my perspective, if one political party and i would say this about the democrats too, if one party wants to defeat itself, knock yourself out. >> well, we'll end on that and i'll add a couple of breaking news while we were on the air. oregon has officially awarded its seven electoral votes to president-elect biden and we are still waiting on california. we'll keep our eye on that. three of my most favorite humans, thank you all for spending time with us today. when we return, the roll out of the potentially game changing coronavirus vaccine and the big challenge health workers are facing to convince americans to take it. that is ahead.

plus as early voting begins in georgia, one state lawmaker there took on the trump campaign, fact checking the list of people they claimed have voted illegally and they'll tell how how she debunked that in the later hour. and the far right has further debased itself as an -- against the future first lady, dr. jill biden. "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break so don't go anywhere. alerts, they remind and warn us. if you have type 2 diabetes and risks for heart disease,

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i feel relieved. i feel like healing is coming. i hope this marks the beginning for the end of the very painful time in our history. i want to instill public confidence that the vaccine is safe. we're in a pandemic and so we all need to do our part. >> the emotional moment this morning as a new york city nurse received the first coronavirus vaccine in the united states. just the first of 2.9 million doses to be distributed this week to front line health care workers and nursing home staff and residents. it is a glimmer of hope for a country just surpassed 300,000 covid related deaths today. hers and many other oncamera vaccinations today are the effort to address vaccine skepticism and mistrust in many

communities. while any help at washington from this point will be rushed and messy. "the new york times" reported that trump administration is quote, scrambling to make up for last time and rushing to roll out a $250 million public education campaign to encourage americans to take the vaccine. l let's bring in yasmin from rhode island. tell us what you're seeing up there. >> reporter: it is a day of opposites. it was quite emotional to see the first person in the state get a vaccine today around 1:00 p.m. you see around me three ambulances. but today 975 doses were delivered to this hospital, rhode island hospital. 433 people are in the hospital right now throughout the state. 47 in the icu, and 31 on the ventilators but with that ten people were vaccinated around 1:00 p.m. today and more are being vaccinated as we speak.

dr. christian alvarez, the man and the myth and legend because he was first to be vaccinated in the state of rhode island and we got it on camera and there was a moment, dock, that you took a huge breath after getting that needle in your arm. what did that feel like for you after fighting this virus for so long and seeing so many people die in your emergency room? >> you know, as the needle was doing in, i have to be present in the moment and time kind of flowed for me. i thought about all of the scientists working on the vaccines and how it got to me. i was thinking of all of the health care workers who since april have been just coming in to take care of some of the sicke sickest patients that we've ever seen. and it was the beginning of a new chapter for us to be able to put this behind us. and so it is just a mixed with so many emotions. it is quite an emotional moment. >> as nicolle came to me she

talked about vaccine skepticism in this country. when i spoke to you earlier you talked about why you think you were chosen today and some of it is because of vaccine skepticism. what did you mean by that? >> as a latino doctor, somebody that comes from the community of color and have seen what they face and then have seen it as a physician in the emergency department, the impact, the suffering, it was really important for me to be here today to roll model how important this moment is to get a vaccine and to tell that to the community and to echo that message of we need to get the vaccine safe and you're going to have mild symptom as associated with it and it is not the virus and we need to doo this together. >> it is personal to you. and you talked about your kids as well. and i talked to some other doctors today, dr. mitchell levy, one of the first to get a vaccine as well. and he said now he could go visit his new grand child who is going to be born in january.

his wife has asthma and now he could safely be around her. it is so personal. thank you, for everything that you have done. and we wish you best of luck in your journey ahead. it is very personal in the health care professionals but they understand it is a long road and it was such a momentous day here on rhode island to see the doctor get the vaccine. >> yeah, what a wonderful and important piece of reporting. and i really think about how many patients they've tried and in some instances failed to be able to save from covid to be vaccinated themselves. what a day. thank you for that reporting. we are going to zip out to california where that momentous vote is taking place. this is the electors of california whose 55 votes will put joe biden over the top at this important stage. let's listen in, if we could.

>> please collect the ballots. >> watching along with us, robert costa of "the washington post" watch ago long with us is california electors past their 55 electoral votes for president-elect joe biden, vice president-elect kamala harris. bob casta. >> great to be with you. >> this was a day that donald trump wanted to derail. i mean, we are focused on the steps and the path to actually

being inaugurated in a way we never have before. and maybe that is -- some of that responsibility lies on those of us that cover this. but we're getting a lesson in some of the steps of democracy because donald trump sought to subvert them. today seems to cement his failure as california's 55 electoral votes going to joe biden expected to put him over the top. joe biden will be the next president and he makes one more official step in that process but winning the electoral college vote today. bob casta, any reaction from the white house on their failed attempt to subvert this phase of the process? after their lawsuits came up with nothing? >> two things i'm hearing, nicolle. number one, my white house sources and people close to

president trump are watching reaction on capitol hill and they're seeing members of the republican leadership this afternoon and early evening like senator john thune close to majority leader mcconnell acknowledging the realities. and they expect that a cascade of these sorts of comments to come this week. point number two, they're still looking ahead to january 6th when congress takes these results from the electoral college and certifies the vote as an opportunity for political mischief. and the key for them now is to get both a senator in the republican party and a house member in the republican party loyal to president trump to somehow object to the electoral college result and to force a debate, a discussion inside of that process in the capitol on january 6th. but there is privately no sense that they could do anything to formally disrupt the process but there could be some political theater. >> robert casta, is there any

angst in vice president mike pence's political circles in or outside of the white house of making him the final body to lay down on the train tracks trying to block the democratic process and democracy itself in the view of what a lot of democrats and republicans outside of congress? >> it is not to overstate it, perhaps one of the biggest tests of vice president pence's career is duty constitutionally as vice president, is to preside over this process as president of the senate and the electoral college will mail the results for the new congress to take them and consider them on january 6th. it is not required for the vice president to be there. someone needs to preside over the electoral college certification. >> the tallies for the votes -- >> but we'll have to see if he shows up and willing to provide over that process and whether he's encouraging of the objections or not.

>> robert costa stay with us. we'll listen in as they announce the results in california. [ applause ] >> they have just announced vice president elect kamala harris. we'll listen in. [ applause ] robert costa, this is another sound and sight of the winner's side. the winner, president-elect joe biden, vice president-elect kamala harris, they will be addressing the nation tonight at 7:30. joe biden making remarks that will include a comment that democracy prevailed, that democracy beats in the heart of all americans and that it

prevailed over an attempted abuse of power by donald trump. it is one of the more frontal indictments of donald trump's conduct over the last 60 days. robert costa any plans, you you think other than live tweeting along, the white house has any grace notes or any concessions that they'll sound? >> president trump and his allies are closely watching the republican party. because they know that some republican leaders feel like they're in a political corner. they know the political reality and the constitutional reality reflected here on msnbc this afternoon and the electoral college is moving forward and president-elect biden will be president of the united states at the same time because of those georgia runoffs, in early january, you could see president trump nudge republicans in the coming days to not rally around the idea of a president-elect biden and instead try to wait until there is some kind of political gam bit on january

6th. we'll have to see if president trump is able to fulfill this ambition to have a january 6th showdown or whether enough republicans in the next few hours will stand up and say enough. >> you know, robert costa, i've been part of autopsy efforts in the republican party, they famously ignored that and elected donald trump in '16. and do you think that autopsy in this election's divisive history to now president-elect biden, do you think this will include any assessment of whether there is exposure of a party being complicit. 126 signed on to a lawsuit to disenfranchise the votes of four states. some of them included votes for them. is there any talk about damage that has didn't done by being viewed as being anti-democratic, acting like autocrats from parts far away from the united states of america. is there any shame? >> i've gone around on this

question, nicolle and what makes this moment so different than 2013 when reince priebus chairman at the time kmit commissioned that autopsy is the political dynamics have been upended. in 2013 in this autopsy after romney, she wethey were saying base, we need to be more sent riff rift on immigration and talking to the grassroots trying to put them toward the center. now in 2020, the grassroots sh the base, they own the party. president trump owns party. there is no real republican establishment there is different that is going to somehow have the political capital to speak to the grassroots and urge them into a different direction. so there is no real talk in the republican party right now before having some sort of autopsy. you'll hear voices in the coming months like larry hogan of maryland that will say let's move to the center but they're not dominant voices.

>> if recent history is any guide, robert costa will be breaking most of the stories on this front as today joe biden makes it official going over that 270 electoral vote threshold with the votes, the 55 votes in the state of california. bob costa, thank you for spending time with us today on this historic day. joining our conversation now, john meachham, author of the soul of america and we should point out today that john unofficially advises president-elect biden. he is expected to address the nation tonight at 7:30 p.m. and to remark on the values and the sort of attraction that democracy still holds. i think we'll that it beats in our hearts. he's also expected to make a reference to democracy prevailing over an abuse of power.

attempted abuse of power. where do you put today's electoral college when in terms of the moments of history in this unprecedented time that joe biden will assume the presidency in? >> tu true. nicolle, i should say full disclosure, i've helped president-elect biden with speeches in the past. if he asked me, i'll do it in the future. i had nothing to do with tonight. so i'm just talking here. but i was, because of the way i spend my time, i was reading theater parker earlier today. i'm sure you would just put your theater parker to the side. he was a 19th century transit dentalist and you can't make this up and he was the author of two important lines that endured in the american experience. one is the arc of a moral universe bending toward justice. that is drawn from parker. the other is that a democracy is

a government of, for and by the people. that is where lincoln got that language for the gettysburg address. and what sos -- is so essentia about today is that it is a manifestation in our time that parker called more than 170 years ago the american idea. and this is an abolitionist in the north trying to make a case for the full application of the implications of the declaration of independence. and he said the american idea was that we're all created equal, we have unalienable rights and give people an opportunity to, as lincoln would later say, have an open field and a fair chance. and that is what a a democratic republic is to supposed to do. it is not a cult of personality. it is supposed to be an arena for us to be protected by law,

in order to pursue happiness. that's the entire point of the country. and i'll fum -- fully aware we haven't lived up to that. but what we've seen in the vivid terms ins how fragile this experiment is. and what we have to do, as citizens, the leader, we spend all of our time talking about leadership and we should, but let's remember that leaders are mere colo-- mirrors of who we as well as makers and we have engage in an era of what i think of as entrepreneurial relationships and not be polarized. >> i want to ask you how we do that. i read a quote from "the washington post" with a 58-year-old trump supporter who came to protest in washington, d.c. this weekend after the supreme court delivered the

latest in what was close to four dozen legal defeats. none of donald trump's lawsuits were predicated on laws or evidence that served their case. they were all political efforts to try to defraud, frankly, a fraud free election result and i wonder what do you whether a 58-year-old trump supporter said i will lay down my arms, i will put down my stop the steal poster when donald trump and mike pence tell me to lay down my arms. what do we do if that call never comes? >> yeah, i saw that. and that is the woman who talked about being a godly protest, right? she was a -- i think she was a religious person doing that. >> yeah. >> here is what i would say to her and to my co-religious-ists in the world, let's engage with first things. and the first element of religion broadly put and

particularly in our case, in the american context, is the sermon on the mount. we are called to love our neighbors as ourselves and that is incredibly difficult because who wants to love their neighbor as themselves. that is the reason it is so radical, the reason it is so revolutionary is because it is so damn hard but that is what we're called to do. so the other important point there is render on to god that what ch is god and cesar that which is caesars but don't conflate the two. and what i would argue and i think that the vernacular we have to establish, the conversation we have to have and it has to be a conversation, is that we could share values, even if they find different skre expression in our policy choices and that is what is shifted here. that is where the polarization is. and i believe deeply in the american experiment. i believe deeply in my faith.

and i believe that america for all of its manifold failings is the fullest manifestation of the idea that an individual person is sovereign. that we are created in the image and likeness of god. and that therefore what did god give us? god gave us the capacity to think. he didn't just say i'm going to create you and i want you to follow one leader without thinking. never said that. and america is always been about reason. and reason taking a stand against passion in the public square. and so there are two ways to think about it. let's talk to those folks in religious terms and in historical terms. >> i want to get your thoughts about the leadership task unique to president biden and vice president harris because of the moment our country is in. an it is not just divided around

whether the real result of our election, which is a resounding fraud-free victory for joe biden, they're also divided by the pandemic. there are people in icu's who don't believe what it is that has them there, they don't believe that the coronavirus is real. joe biden's first domestic mission will be to vaccine the country and the first foreign policy mission is to put america back in the place where americans like to think we belong, where we are leading the world and helping the world and making sure that vaccine gets to the most vulnerable countries in the most vulnerable populations in our country and others. how does joe biden's resume and joe biden's constitutional and his faith qualify him for that undertaking, john? >> well again, lucky to be a friend of the president-elect and informally i offer my advice from time to time so take this

from that perspective. i think he's particularly and uniquely qualified because of his personal experience and his political experience to meet a moment like this. he knows what it is like to lose people. when you've lost a wife, when you've lost a daughter, when you've lost a son, when you're own brain is attacked you and then in the form of an aneurysm, when you've been left for political figurative death four years ago and yet here you find yourself winning the electoral college today and winning a big -- more votes than john candidate ron and about the same level of ronald reagan and others and that is a blending of two tributaries. the personal experience and now finding the chance to offer the country some leadership that requires empathy and requires

what he did for almost 40 years in the senate which is ledge -- which is ledge is late. don't just create heat or sew chaos. address a problem that faces the country and try to use the best means of the public sector in conjunction to govern. and he's not this is not -- valhalla is not about to come to washington. but he understands intuitively because of his personal experience and intellectually because of his political experience, he understands how to manufacture consensus to address problems in realtime. and that is what politics is. we forget that sometimes. because right now politics feels like it is totally cultural warfare, right.

politics is about the mediation of differences, not about the perpetuation of grievances. and that is what we have to -- >> i have a real life example -- i have a real life example of what you're talking about. you said chaos and my phone lit up with chaos realized and soo i'm going to put you to work in breaking news which i know is way too present for a historian like yourself but we could do this. donald trump since we have been talking tweeted this, just had a nice meeting with bill barr at the white house and our relationship has been a very good one and he's done an outstanding job as per letter, bill will leave before christmas, to spend the holiday with his family. jeff rosen and an outstanding person will become acting attorney general. highly respected richard donahue will take over the duties of deputy attorney general.

ta thank you all, exclamation point. we're talking about a man and a moment. bill barr was the man at the moment. he stepped if to that role as the top law enforcement official, top justice department official this country had and quickly morphed into a barber of the robert mueller investigation and enabler of different kind of justice for donald trump's closest allies, he sought to have the case against mike flynn, donald trump's first national security adviser dismissed. he was at the justice department for the resignation of mr. durham who was investigating i think the fourth investigation into the origins of the russia investigation. his top deputy resigned. it was thought to be amid a climate of political pressure. he then had a real change in fortune. donald trump then turned the circular fir9 barr over a series of events that didn't meet donald trump's

expectations for continued loyalty to donald trump. but if you could -- what donald trump thinks bill barr signed up for and falling out of favor from among other things refusing to project the lie that donald trump has sold to 126 republican members of congress and millions of his own supporters that this election was somehow stolen from him. there was some reporting in "the new york times" about a week ago that bill barr was considering leaving. and then even this weekend some more reporting that he might want to go before the holidays to spend more time, i think the quote we just read from donald trump, celebrating christmas in a pandemic, i'm not sure what that looks like. maybe he makes the family eggnog. john meacham, my question to you, is it possible that there is conduct that has been projected in reporting in axy os, on the "the new york times"

an the washington time about donald trump's attempt to pardon himself and his own personal attorney rudy giuliani, that bill barr just doesn't want to be around for? >> that is certainly speculation. i would sign on for. if we're taking a pool, i want that entry. the other thing, i think that is probably rattling around in the president's head is if the reporting is proven accurate that general barr tried to keep the potential investigation of hunter biden's taxes out of the public square. >> right. >> i have a feeling that in the men's grill at mar-a-lago for the next x number of years that is going to be a big topic of the injustice of that. that in a weird way trump didn't get his comey moment of late

october so i have a feel those two things are possibly agitating forces between the president and the attorney general and i think it is a fascinating question for the next 38 days, what trump tries to do pardon power and with the remaining apparatus of the executive branch to protect himself, his family, his associates going forward because one of the things we have no doubt about and this is not a partisan observation is this is the most fundamentally transactional president you can imagine and so it's all about what you do for him and if you don't deliver for him, you end up spending more time with your family at christmas. >> jon meacham, stay with us for this. i think there's a lot of history and people have made parallels to the nixon administration and i want to run out that parallel here on this day.

this breaking news that bill barr will leave his post as the country's attorney general as donald trump's attorney general before christmastime. donald trump just tweeting that out and tweeting out a letter, we are joined now in this breaking news at the white house by nbc news correspondent monica alba. monica, what are you learning about this pre-holiday debar turay of bill barr who was the trumpiest of all trump ags? >> reporter: certainly one of his closest allies over the last number of years and in many ways it doesn't come as a complete surprise because the president, when he is frustrated with one of his top cabinet members he makes it known. perhaps we can all remember what happened with his first attorney general, jeff sessions and though bill barr never reached that kind of level of being lambasted as we can make those kinds of comparisons, we were sort of inching closer and closer to it and earlier today kayleigh mcenany was quite cryptic about their

relationship. she was asked during an interview on fox news where the divide currently stood between the president and bill barr and she said, well, there's clear frustration. i'll leave it at that. she didn't want to get into it beyond that but the news over the weekend certainly about questions over hunter biden and investigations by the department of justice it's clear the president wanted his attorney general to do more with that ahead of the election especially and know there was total frustration from the president's side of things with his attorney general because of that statement he made a couple of weeks ago completely undoing any of the president's baseless claims of voter fraud so that two-prong add prochilo is what it seems ultimately led the president and attorney general bill barr to come to a conclusion that it seems actually the president was the one who was allowed to break this news and even though this is really a resignation letter that we're seeing from bill barr, it does seem to be slightly on his own terms say

that he will exit just before christmastime to spend a little more time with his family. i think notably in the letter as well he says he needs to wrap up a couple of projects before he does that. we' we'll be digging into that to see what that might be but the fact that the president is the one breaking this news, he's allowing it seems his attorney general to go out with some distinction obviously they were add odds over these two major issues but he's one of the president's closest allies and many around the president were urging him not to fire bill barr, especially in these last couple of weeks, it was so few days left until he leaves office, what would be the point of that? but it seems that the president also could not be convinced not to express his frustration and that was reaching a boiling point and that's where we are tonight, nicolle. >> monica, stick around. i want to bring back in the conversation bob cast th-- cost from "washington post." this was the lead story,

president trump on saturday ex-cosh shated attorney general william barr castigating him on twitter for not violating justice department policy to publicly reveal an investigation into president-elect joe biden's son. it fell to the historian jon meacham to raise this today. it appears that this lasting frustration on donald trump's part that he couldn't turn the justice department in his final wish to have hunter biden investigated as a political campaign operation, this seemed to be maybe a straw that broke the cam many's back between that strained relationship between bill barr and donald trump. what are you learning from your sources about this breakup? >> my sources in the last few minutes are urging me to make sure to pay attention to the next step here, that as much as attorney general barr leaving is the story tonight the real story in the coming days is what will

president trump do with the department of justice? who will he have inside of that department to do his bidding potentially in the coming days and weeks and there has been talk on the right, you hear it in conservative media day after day about having a special counsel to look into president-elect biden, hunter biden, that has been the chatter for days and weeks. the president i'm told by people close to him wants to see that sort of thing happen so this presidency is by no means over until january 20th and now you have attorney general bill barr, a loyalist to be sure, but a loyalist who was willing to publicly say the election didn't have widespread fraud. now he is on his way out. who is on the way in? something to watch. president trump is still president still trying to push his agenda. >> bob costa just scared the bleep out of me so i'll bring in jeremy bash. i don't know if you heard robert's latest reporting. he's been told by his sources no

the to focus on the departure of bill barr who was of all the president's attorney generals general the trumpiest of all but in the end not quite trumpy enough, didn't go along with the voter fraud lies, publicly said there was no voter fraud that would have changed the outcome of this election and donald trump very angry about the timing of it being made public that hunter biden's taxes are under investigation by the u.s. attorney in delaware. bob warning us that the worst may be yet to come. your thoughts? >> yeah, i think the question, nicolle, tonight, is this a message firing? is this designed to send a message to republicans to stay in line or is this a more tactical firing by the president to push aside an attorney general because there are specific things the president wants the department of justice to do in the remaining 30 days that the president's in office including potentially exonerating or clearing some of the president's family members or his close associates or in

some ways punishing or exacting retribution on the president's political adversaries. i don't think we know that but that is the key question. >> well, jeremy bash, not to put you on the spot but i'm going to put you on the spot there is a mission under way at the pentagon where some very close trump allies and folks may be not necessarily steeped in defense policy have been appointed in the final days with similar questions raised that robert costa is raising about who may replace bill barr. i mean, if you just play out the tape, what sorts of things could a kind of rogue attorney general do in 38 days? >> well, you're right, nicolle, over at the pentagon, the president has been stacking these key advisory boards with his political cronies, with corey lewandowski, with dave bossy and saw even today newt gingrich was appointed to the defense policy board but, of course, with respect to law

enforcement functions, the ability to bring criminal cases against individuals to deprive people of their freedom, that's a much more serious situation, when the department of justice is in the hands and direct control of the president and a political crony or someone who he believes he can control, then you have i think the danger that he will use the levers of power at doj across the u.s. attorney's offices, maybe within law enforcement functions within the department to investigate, to surveil, to potentially bring charges against those people who he has political disagreements with and i wouldn't be surprised if he did and i also wouldn't be surprised if he got the justice department to likewise clear, exonerate or somehow clear the decks on himself and the rest of his family so when he leaves he believes he did everything in his power to make himself a bulletproof so he can run again

in 2024. >> we are bringing to our conversation "the new york times," washington reporter mike schmitt. we've been reading from your reporting that said trump ex-coextrum shated him -- what are you learning about today's departure of william barr? >> william barr sat at home this past weekend like many trump administration officials have over the past four years and he wondered whether he would be fired by tweet and this was certainly not a place that he wanted to be in and he was not comfortable with it. he wanted to leave by the end of the year. he had been planning on doing that. a week ago we reported that but

in response to that there were republicans that went to barr and asked him to stay. then barr put out word he was going to stay through the end of the term then by today he's at the white house and it looks like a parting of the ways with trump. this was what barr wanted all along. he wanted to get out before the end of the administration. >> so barr getting his time to celebrate. jon meacham, monica alba, robert costa, jeremy bash, mike schmitt. thank you all for jumping on the air and in jon's case staying on the air with us for this breaking news. what a couple of hours in american presidential history here "the beat with ari melber" starts right now.