welcome to a very busy wednesday. it is "meet the press" daily. i'm chuck todd. wednesday, december, and suddenly with a goal and congress might actually do something. right now congressional leaders in the white house are nearing an agreement on a $900 billion covid relief deal. members have been publicly mum on the details but it could

include stimulus payments among $600 per person among other measures. that direct stimulus check addition comes at the extraction of aid to state and local governments. this morning, mitch mcconnell and chuck schumer took to the senate floor to announce a deal is within reach. >> the democratic leader and i worked into the evening, alongside the speaker of the house and the house republican leader, we made major headway toward hammering out a targeted pandemic relief package that would be able to pass both chambers with bipartisan majorities. >> as we race the clock to reach a final accord before the end of the year, we are close to an agreement. it is not a done deal yet, but we are very close. >> also happening right now, president-elect joe biden has just finished speaking in delaware where he introduced pete buttigieg, one time primary campaign rival as his choice for transportation secretary along

with former mayors becoming -- it comes amid complaints from some on left his cabinet is not diverse or progressive as they hoped it would be. we're following the latest developments involving the current occupant of the oval office, president trump is holding his first cabinet meeting since may. not on tv. which is a mild surprise. it comes in as he's digging in on baseless claims on election fraud. this is playing out amid a proxy war for control of the post election republican party between mitch mcconnell who is operationally in control, and donald trump who would like to keep the hearts of the base. mcconnell wants party to acknowledge reality that biden will be the next president. he said as much yesterday on the senate floor. president trump wants the fight to rally around him based on baseless claims of a rigged election. which one is the leader of the republican party. a lot of people will want to know the answer to that question.

shannon pettypiece is outside the white house for us. garrett haake on capitol hill. let me start with shannon. so, there is a cabinet meeting and i'm just surprised at how little coverage the president is wanting of it. that is somewhat unusual for this president when it comes to cabinet meetings, is it not, shannon? >> reporter: right, it could be a moment he could use to show himself as continuing to be the cabinet -- the commander in chief carrying out the business of the government. it is unclear what the agenda for this meeting is, why the president is having this less than 40 days before the end of his term. however, i would note and our reporting indicates that his cabinet is really one of the last group of allies he has out there. you talked about mcconnell, on the hill, another number of republicans in the senate now acknowledging that joe biden

will be the president-elect, breaking with president trump on that front. the president has just great extent purged his cabinet of those who have showed dissent, like former defense secretary esper, the -- at the department of justice, bill barr, recently left after falling out with the president. so this is really the one friendly group the president has left. his cabinet, with people like ben carson and betsy devos who have been with him all along and have certainly not at least been outspoken in breaking with the president in any way. >> right. well, there is one member of the cabinet now that might have had an awkward interaction with the president, and that's elaine chao. we saw evidence that the president wasn't happy with what mcconnell said. >> reporter: within the white house, so many people have either left or have just been

keeping their head down. we're not seeing really any of the surrogates other than press secretary kayleigh mcenany come out and be defending the president on these issues of election fraud. so, yes, not only is he alone in congress, and, of course, publicly his cabinet members aren't defending him, but when you look at the surrogates within the white house, his chief of staff, you know, peter navarro, you know, larry kudlow, these figures who are on tv all the time, they're not out there now either. elaine chao, great point, we have not heard from her, one of the few survivors from the beginning of this administration, in part because we do not hear a lot from her. but we're not really hearing a lot from anyone at this point, really not even rudy giuliani to some extent. >> and one final thing before i move down pennsylvania avenue, we're reporting, when i say we, nbc news, the president has been warned not to fire the fbi director chris wray. if we're reporting that he's

being told not to fire him, that means the president wants to try to do this. where is his head? do we know? is christopher wray going to make it to january 20th or not? >> well, it suggests that the president could be looking at a further purge of the upper ranks of his administration, which, again, with less than 40 days left is sort of like shooting people on the "titanic." but taking out and settling scores with those he still has a score to settle with, and his administration, of course, chris wray is one of those people he has parted ways with on, so, again, a number of days since the president has not been shy about publicly attacking the very own top senior ranks of his administration. >> well, look, i'm not making light of anything on the "titanic," and what happened there, but i think you win the day for a metaphor. that is a pretty good visual there, shannon. shannon pettypiece at the white house. thank you very much. garrett, let me move things

over to you. that is, first of all, here we go again, can congress only operate in the month of december at the end of a congress? is that how -- is there some law that i missed, is there some amendment in the constitution that said they only can come to an agreement in december of even number years? >> reporter: it looks that way, chuck. i mean, i think this congress had a very productive spring in terms of their early response to the pandemic. and then they stumbled through about the next six months of the year. now we're seeing this element of seriousness here with the clock ticking. i think on the idea of getting a pandemic relief package passed with this government funding bill that has to pass by friday, you know, despite all the months of muddling through, time is the biggen enemy now. you're going to ask people to pass it, you know, coming on scene here. you have essentially a day or two to look over this enormous spending bill, could prove

problematic if time becomes an issue, bumping up against the idea of a shutdown. they are working now. these four corners meetings, having the four leaders in a room together for two separate meetings yesterday, i don't think you can overstate how important that was to this process. why that didn't happen? six months ago, five months ago, pick your point along the timeline, is a very fair question. but at least now the people who make the decisions up here are getting in a room together. >> it does seem as if everybody had exhausted whatever political capital they thought they had. whether they actually had it or not, it was as if they all wered ourselves down to zero and then meet. let me ask this, though, the aid to state and local governments, this is a serious problem. it is going to lead to layoffs of a lot of -- this is going to have a huge impact on the employment rate, the economy, we saw what happened when this happened in 2009 during the great recession. is that a dead -- is that dead

long-term or is that just dead today and it gets resurrected in february or march? >> yeah, i think probably the latter. this feels like the kind of thing that is dead under the government as currently constructed. right now you have a president who doesn't want to spend money on state and local government aid. it never has been part of any proposal sent to the hill by the white house and you have a number of republican senators who don't want to spend that money. right now, republicans still control the senate and they still control the white house. that's not true in february or march of next year when this congress comes back perhaps with a democratic majority, but the very least with a democratic president who might be able to muscle through state and local aid as part of some other package. might be able to make a deal or make an offer to mitch mcconnell that is not on the table right now. so, it remains a huge democratic priority. but i think there is widespread recognition here that we're in emergency territory now. of the things that have to get done, for example, is a significant amount of money in

this package for vaccine distribution. the idea that something like that would get held up right now just seems untenable. >> shannon pettypiece and garrett haake getting us started. shannon and garrett, thank you, both. joining us for a bit of perspective on the new political biden lines is rich lowry and former missouri democratic senator claire mccaskill, also, of course an nbc and msnbc political analyst. rich, let me start with you with a simple question. who is the leader of the republican party, donald trump or mitch mcconnell? >> donald trump. isn't even close. he'll control the hearts and minds of the republican base for years i would expect. his grip on the party may not loosen until february 2024. the iowa caucuses. mcconnell has more say about what happens nuts and bolts wise on capitol hill. the interaction between these two things, trump will be able to pressure mcconnell, but trump

will be the leader of the grassroots army as the republican party and mcconnell in washington. >> so claire mccaskill, how should president biden, who should he treat as the leader of the republican party? mitch mcconnell or donald trump? >> i think what joe biden has to do is reach out and become as close as he possibly can to the republicans and mitch mcconnell's caucus that might be willing to not always do the party line to get things done. i think you'll see joe biden trying to really seriously talk to people like rob portman and people like lisa murkowski and people like, you know, john thune and others who, you know, now mitch is pretty good at keeping everybody in the corral and that's what you're seeing now. he was having difficulty keeping everybody in the corral on

denying that joe biden had won this election. so he finally capitulated because he had real friction in his caucus over people saying, wait a minute, we can't keep being quiet about this. so in -- i can't overstate how important the georgia elections are. it is going to make a big difference to -- as to the role of mitch mcconnell going forward. >> so, claire, let me start with you, then, is how this covid relief deal came together, is that the model of how biden has to work with the senate is basically find a coalition of the willing on the right, and in this case it was, you had the three people we could have predicted, right, collins, murkowski and romney and bill cassidy, you brought up portman. cassidy is one of those guys that wants to be in the mix. is that the model under -- assuming democrats don't sweep the two georgia senate races? >> well, the mile for getting

this done is that mitch mcconnell decided to negotiate. he had refused to. if you remember the first c.a.r.e.s. act was all the white house. mitch mcconnell said not me. you do it, mnuchin. and so it was all the democratic leadership, mccarthy and mnuchin that did the first c.a.r.e.s. act, finally mitch mcconnell after months of refusing to meet sat down with the leadership and now we're going to get a deal. the new model will be about the calendar. and so if mitch mcconnell is in control of the senate, it will be very difficult for biden to get things done because mitch mcconnell will control the calendar. if on the other hand the democrats control the senate, the people who decide what gets done will be the same people that cut this bipartisan deal, try to move this forward. it will be democrats and republicans that hang out in the middle and try to find common ground. >> rich lowry what do you do if you're kelly loeffler and perdue right now.

i will never stop fighting for real donald trump because he has never stopped fighting for us. essentially loeffler and perdue, i guess they can not do what mitch mcconnell did yesterday and acknowledge joe biden as president yet, can they? >> they can't. >> does it really run a risk for them? they would lose the trump base? >> yeah, it was always awkward and what mcconnell did yesterday makes it more awkward for them. so they don't want to lose the trump base, they need those voters to show up and they just can't say the -- the other side of the ledger, they don't want to be seen endorsing some more extravagant claims of fraud that, you know are in the president's twitter feed and his allies are spouting because that can be offensive potentially to voters in the suburbs, they need to take some of the edge off republican opposition and suburbs. so this is tough.

it is a balancing act and could go to early january. >> and follow-up to mitch mcconnell, let's assume he is majority leader. it was clear he didn't like somebody else cutting -- he saw the bipartisan deal was getting some traction, and he went in and took control of it. is he going to be comfortable letting a minority of republican senators govern with biden as long as he thinks it is in the best interest of those republican senators holding senate seats? >> i don't know. he'll control his caucus. there is one thing we know about mcconnell, he's good at that, he cares about doing that. and on the election, he just thought it was time. he played the string out as long as he could. i think he probably wanted to acknowledge this much sooner, but wanted to try to maintain relations with trump. decided it was time and same thing on the relief bill. had to pass at some point.

and this is the kind of thing that will really get done in a biden administration. must pass spending bills. this was a must pass spending bill. and anything that both sides agree on, it is spending in washington. it is doing anything beyond that, i think, will see mcconnell in the same role he was in the obama years of being dr. no. >> claire, before i let you go, i'm curious, any reaction to alexandria ocasio-cortez saying it is time for new democratic leadership on capitol hill. she was referring to everybody, pelosi, schumer, the entire leadership. what did you make of it? >> well, first of all, i have great respect for who she is and what she does. but the way you become a leader is by getting the most votes in your caucus. and that -- it is not complicated. if there is someone ready to be step up and be leader, they need to start counting votes and go for it. i think those people are leaders right now because the majority of the people who have been

elected to congress and their party want them to be the leaders. >> yeah. it reminds me of a good retort i read the other day, people complaining about joe biden's cabinet and say, you can do what he did, run for president, win the primary, win the general election and you get to name your cabinet. >> as i used to say in my office, pay the filing fee and you can make the decision. >> there you go. rich lowry, claire mccaskill, always a pleasure to have the two of you sharing your perspective with us. thank you, both. in washington, a somber reminder of the toll of this pandemic. so yesterday the national cathedral rang that bell 300 times over the course of 30 minutes, each ring represented

1,000 americans who have died from covid-19. just suck that in here a minute. up ahead, as the crisis deepens across the country, california's governor is take something grim steps as the death toll is expected to rise. plus, we could be days away from a second approved vaccine. we'll tell you what you need to know about this one. we'll tell you what you need to know about this one. at dell technologies, we started by making the cloud easier to manage. but we didn't stop there. we made a cloud flexible enough to adapt to any size business. no matter what it does, or how it changes. and we kept going. so you only pay for what you use. because at dell technologies, we stop...at nothing. ♪ to help you build a flexible wealth plan. you'll have access to tax-smart investing strategies, and with brokerage accounts online trades are commission free. personalized advice.

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i didn't know you were listening. hmm. (laughing) that works. welcome back. even as vaccines are being delivered and administered, and as the fda is likely to approve another vaccine for emergency use in the coming days, the coronavirus crisis continues to escalate. nearly 2500 americans are dying every day from the virus. if our average stays unchanged for the next two weeks, that would mean nearly 40,000 more americans won't live to see 2021. more people than ever are hospitalized with coronavirus, hospitalizations up 60% from this day last month. and with so many patients, some doctors say care is being compromised. in california, the situation is

growing increasingly dire, governor gavin newsom hired 5,000 additional body bags and is putting refrigerate units on stand by. 5,000 additional body bags. jacob soboroff is at ucla health in los angeles where the hospital is vaccinating the first of its frontline workers. every day this week has been this combination, the good news of the start of the vaccinations and the grim reality of this horrible winter that everybody warned we would be in. >> reporter: it is the exact scenario here at ucla, chuck. 114 people today are hospitalized with coronavirus in the facility, and which is the highest hospitalization number over the entire duration of the pandemic so far and it coincides exactly as you said with today, the first day of vaccinations here. i want to introduce you to someone who just got the first vaccination here, dr. dell

briggs malonson. you were the first patient to receive this vaccination. how are you doing? why did you decide -- this is not mandatory, why did you decide to do this? >> it has been an honor to be the very first person to receive the vaccine. and the reason why i stepped right on up to receive the vaccine is because as an emergency doctor, i have seen directly the effects that covid has on all of my patients, but then also as an african-american woman, i also know the effects that covid had on underresourced communities and communities of color. so therefore it was more than my pleasure and privilege to step up and be the very first person to receive the vaccine to show everyone this vaccine is safe, this vaccine is effective and we need this vaccine to stop this horrible pandemic. >> reporter: let's be clear about side effects from the vaccination. how do you feel? you just got the vaccine. do you have any side effects? >> i feel great and i expect to continue to feel great. you can't see the smile under my

mask. we know you may have your standard mild symptoms like muscle aches or mild headache or even a low grade fever. but all of those things can be taken care of with tylenol. and so right now i feel incredibly great. and so if any of those symptoms do happen, i'll make sure to take medication appropriately for it. >> you mentioned the importance of yourself as a black woman getting this vaccine, we know here in los angeles county people of color have been disproportionately affected by this virus. 5,000 body bags the governor is bringing into the state right now. are you concerned about the distribution of the vaccine when it comes to equity and fairness of distribution in los angeles? >> that is an incredibly important question to ask. and even right here at ucla health, we will make sure our vaccines are being distributed in a fair and equitable manner, not only for our workers, but also for our patients. so that patients with the highest risk are going to receive the vaccines first. now, highest risk is determined,

of course, by your occupational risk, if you are a worker, but then also by your own medical conditions and also your social vulnerability. we know that when it comes to health equity, a lot of that determines based off of your community. do you have access to doctors, are you an essential worker, what is the level of income in your communities, what is the transportation status? so we are making it a priority not only here at ucla health, but a priority among other healthcare institutions so that people with the highest risk including those that are living in more lower income communities are those of people of color getting the vaccines. >> reporter: thank you so much. what a critical and important day. i appreciate you spending the time here. >> thank you for having me. >> reporter: the work that the doctor is doing, the emergency department here is extraordinarily stressed, which is why, of course, it is so important she came out to share her story, her experience getting the vaccine with us. chuck? >> jacob soboroff on the ground,

ucla medical center, thank you very much. joining me is dr. michael osterholm, the director for the center of infectious disease, research and policy. dr. osterholm, always good to have you on. i start the day, look, we look at cases, we look at hospitalizations and we look at deaths. every day we see the numbers. there was one piece of good news, for first time since november 30th, the seven-day moving average of new cases went down, not up. is -- do you see evidence -- is that evidence to you that, hey, maybe mitigation is kicking in, and maybe in the next couple of weeks we'll start to see hospitalizations go down because that number is still going up? >> well, in fact, the good news is that the case numbers are going down, the bad news is we have been here before. and we have seen how we get these spikes and then we have respite or lowering of cases and

then he can co then we come back again with another new high. many kerned th eare concerned t holiday season is going to create the next spike again. this might be a short lived reprieve in the number of new cases. remember where we're at now. we're talking about, you know, 200 to 250,000 new cases a day, a number that was unfathomable just, you know, two to four months ago. and i worry about is if we have additional cases as result of holiday-related exposure, we could look back and say, boy, i wish we had 200,000 cases a day again. >> do you feel as if we have -- we're right now the post thanksgiving -- the thanksgiving impact is here? are we experiencing that now or do you think not yet? >> i think we actually have experienced the post thanksgiving surge in terms of cases. in terms of hospitalizations and deaths, that is still clearly

emerging yet. that will play out as a lagging indicator for the next few weeks. the same thing will be true for holiday season. we won't immediately experience an increase in cases. and in fact i would suspect that with people off working, we might even see a decrease in cases that unusually will seem like how we have done it. and then to see a major spike that would occur in the early part of january, with hospitalizations and deaths following two to three weeks after that. >> we have a plan, most of the states are going to have a plan when it comes to vaccinations to try to prioritize not just healthcare workers, but the most vulnerable. and when you look at those who died from covid, you know, michael, you look at the graphs, you see, it is almost entirely folks over the age of 65. that's when you see the numbers spike and that's -- that's where it is. when can we expect to start seeing the impact of the vaccinations on our death toll?

>> surely the deaths among those living in long-term care facilities should start to decrease sometime in mid to late january. but, remember, once we get the vaccine, then you have to wait three to four weeks to get the second dose and then maximum protection likely occurs two weeks after that. so, again, in terps ms of getti the vaccine to the people will take weeks and then see a result will take more weeks. i keep saying, we see light at the end of the tunnel now. these vaccines are nothing short of modern medical miracles. the point is we have to get to the end of the tunnel before we can actually be in that daylight. and i worry that we can easily have a derailment if not a crash before we get to the end of the tunnel. if people don't understand that we're not done with this yet. we still have to button down for the weeks to months before we can get our own shots and be protected. >> so there is evidence that there is a decent amount of

protection after one shot in both the pfizer and moderna vaccine. the former head of the fda scott gottlieb is one of those that advocates, hey, don't hold back for second shots, we know people need to get them, but, hey, let's do as much mitigation as we can right now. and getting more people at 62% is better than half the people at 90% or is it? what say you to that? >> well, i actually continue to support the idea of individuals getting both doses. i think that long-term we surely know that that will be better. in the short-term, even, i think that we have to be careful to assume too much benefit from one shot and then out. so i think that the fda's approval of this vaccine under emergency use authorization with two doses, with the cdc's acip committee recommendation of two doses, i support that and think that's where we should be going right now.

>> the moderna and pfizer vaccines to a lot of people they seem very similar. obviously one is a lot harder to travel than the other. are there any other discernible differences between the two that folks should be aware of? >> at this point, the most important number, the one number we want to use to measure the success of these vaccines, how well did it protect me? how well did it protect everyone else? right now the numbers we have seen about 95% of people who are vaccinated and at least two weeks out of the second dose are protected against severe disease as well as mild disease. that is an amazing number. that is an amazing number. and so i think that is the success that we look at. as far as the other aspects of the vaccines, they're very similar. i would be very happy, when it is my turn, to get either one of those vaccines for myself, my family, my friends and

colleagues. and i hope you get one too. >> well, i will tell you this, if you say it is good to go, your word matters to me quite a bit. i hope it matters to a lot of folks listening. michael osterholm, thank you for coming on and providing your expertise. up ahead, i'll talk with congresswoman pernilla jaipa about the covid relief bill. 50 million people are in the path of this major winter storm threatening to dump as much as two feet of snow in some places in new england. here's a live look at washington, d.c., just starting to get hit right now. snow has been falling fairly consistently. new york, it is expected to see its first flakes shortly. storm will churn throughout the day and into the night before heading out to sea tomorrow. sorry, kids, no snow day. we'll be right back. kids, no sy we'll be right back. introducing fidelity income planning. we look at what you've saved, what you'll need,

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congresswoman from washington state, pramila jayapal, also co-chair of the congressional progressive caucus. congresswoman, good to see you. you made a point, i'll put up this tweet, you had said that the progressive caucus is unified in our position, any covid relief package must include survival checks and enhanced unemployment assistance. this deal potentially includes both, not at the numbers you potentially would have wanted, is it enough for you to support this deal? >> well, chuck, i think the thing -- the point we were trying to make is we got to have direct relief, money in people's pockets with any deal that passes. and so 24 hours ago, 48 hours ago, there were no direct checks in the package and we were trying to make the point and i think we made it loud and clear and you see that now this package does include at least what we're hearing some relief checks. we understand that the numbers are shifting, we have to see the final scope of the deal. but we couldn't afford for the

relief checks to be at the expense of unemployment insurance, both of those things are important, and they are the most effective ways to get money to people. the desperation across the country, we're hearing it every day, people in the midst of a snowstorm are wondering if they're going to be able to keep their heat on. they're wondering if they're go to be able to pay the rent, they can't put food on their table. i'm getting emails, tweets, every single minute of every single day with people whose desperation level is so high. and so i'm proud of the progressive caucus for being so united in fighting for direct relief, and i'm glad to see that there is some movement over the last 24 hours where there was no stimulus checks included, survival checks is what i call it, now there is. >> you have stopped short of saying you're on board yet. is it because you don't know all the details? is that -- you want to wait until you see everything? and i want to follow up on one

thing, this deal did come together at the expense of aid to state and local government. and while i take your point, one is money in the pocket right now. but as you know, that aid is probably going to mean layoffs in a couple of months. so it was -- that's a tough trade-off too. >> terrible trade-off. and i'll tell you, all of these things are just horrendously cruel. i saw an economic analysis today that says if we want to rescue our economy, if we want to deal with the deaths your reporters were just reporting on, you know, due to covid, we are going to need to put 3.5 to $4.5 trillion into the economy. and, frankly, chuck, the longer we wait, the more we're going to have to put in. and we know that the fed chair is saying that. the economists across the spectrum are saying that. so, yes, this is not enough. and there are serious things that we are having to give up because of the intransigence of mitch mcconnell who was

insisting that the trade for state and local money directly would be liability shield that would stop just -- just imagine this, if, you know, osha standards, if companies violate those, and people get sick and die because of covid, but not even just related to covid, there would be a complete stop to any kind of lawsuits around that kind of negligence, that is untenable, and so i think that obviously we're going to continue to push. the deal does include, by the way, at least what i'm understanding of it some money that goes to states in terms of transit money, in terms of vaccine distribution money, things like that. the localities are where i think you're really going to feel the pinch. mayors across the country, that kind of money is not in this package, that's what we are excluding because of mcconnell's intransigence on this liability waiver. >> before i let you go, i want

to -- i want you to take a listen to something one of your colleagues had to say about the democrating lec leadership on cl hill. let me play the sound and i'll ask you about it. >> are you ready to say pelosi and schumer need to go? >> i mean, i think so. i mean, the question is, like, this year, for example, the hesitancy i have is that i want to make sure that if we're pointing people in a direction that we have a plan. and my concern and this -- i acknowledge as a failing, as something we need to sort out is that there isn't a plan. how do we fill that vacuum? >> so it does sound, and i get where she's coming from here, which is it feels as if the frustration with leadership sometimes may have to do with policy and they're intertwined and that this complaint about

leadership may be more about policy than leadership, but what is your interpretation of it and where is your head? >> i think the biggest thing we had to do was get donald trump out of the white house. we did that. with the popular vote, with the electoral college, we had to hold the house and we need to make the senate democratically run. because mitch mcconnell is showing over and over again he's not going to -- here's what i don't understand. you've been covering the deaths, the death toll on this country, the fact that a million new unemployment claims are being filed every single week. people are getting kicked out of their homes and yet there is really -- appears to be zero concern on the part of republicans who are still fighting some terrible lawsuits that are about overturning the election. and so i think the frustration level across the country is high because we are facing multiple crises. i do believe that with

president-elect joe biden coming in, with hopefully democrats controlling the senate, we'll see about georgia, that we will finally have some leadership in this country that recognizes we have to take bold structural solutions. the people that voted for donald trump, some of them, are actually in favor of things like taxing the rich, $15 minimum wage. those are populous solutions because so many people across this country are desperate and the inequality and the injustice is so high and particularly, of course, for black, brown, indigenous and low wage communities. >> so to summarize it, you believe the leadership, the leader that matters now is joe biden and everything else is secondary? >> i think that that is a critically important piece of this. you know, who is the republican party anymore, chuck? i don't know. i don't know if you know, but to me it seems like it is just whatever donald trump wanted was what republicans did. forget about your constituents,

forget about what is good for the country, forget about, oh, the constitution. so, yes, i think the leadership at the top makes all the difference in the world. then we will have to see where joe biden takes this country. hopefully he takes it in a direction that is the boldest and the most direct assistance to change some of the structural inequities. >> mm-hmm. congresswoman pramila jayapal from washington state, thank you for coming on. thank you for coming on and sharing your views. >> thank you so much, chuck. up next, how damaging and far reaching was the russian hack of u.s. government? we're just beginning to find out. we'll have the latest after the break. nd out. we'll have the latest after the brea k. research shows people remember commercials with nostalgia. so to help you remember that liberty mutual customizes your home insurance, here's one that'll really take you back. wow! what'd you get, ryan? it's customized home insurance from liberty mutual!

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welcome back. in a historic week where the first americans received a covid vaccine and the electoral

college, confirmed joe biden 's victory, behind the scenes may be just as historic. the discovery of a large scale hack of our federal government. hackers reportedly targeted more than half a dozen agencies, the pentagon, the state department, treasury, dhs, but it is still not clear what those hackers were able to access and what they're still able to access. in fact, according to the associated press, it will take years, maybe years in some cases for the digital sleuths combing through the networks to get all of the answers. these hackers are consummate pros at covering their tracks, expe experts say, some theft may never be detected. we'll from more with an expert after the break. ected. we'll from more with an expert after the break. heart failure causes nearly two hospitalizations every minute. understanding how to talk to your doctor about treatment options is key. today, we are redefining how we do things. we find new ways of speaking, so you're never out of touch.

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cal- i'm lea.steve.line to understandheartfailure.com and we live in north pole, alaska. - i'm a retired school counselor. [lea] i'm a retired art teacher. [steve] we met online about 10 years ago. as i got older, my hearing was not so good

so i got hearing aids. my vision was not as good as it used to be, got a change in prescription. but the this missing was my memory. i saw a prevagen commercial and i thought, "that makes sense." i just didn't have to work so hard to remember things. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. welcome back. with me now to discuss the seriousness of this massive hack is clint watts, member of the joint terrorism task force, he is a senior fellow at the research institute. clint, what made this unique is they basically almost went to a vendor first that ended up giving them even more access. so the scope of this hack, is there anything that rivals it?

>> chuck, i can't think of anything. i think here is the reason why it is so devastating. we spent millions if not billions of dollars trying to defend our systems. and one single vendor with one loopho loophole, has broke down all of that, it has not been just a single point, right? and we didn't detect it for over six months in a lot of these cases. the door was so wide open at a time when we were worried about the election 2020. what is most damaging to think about is thinking about outside relief. we worked so much on election 2020 and they're still not scared. they have ip know vated more in terms of their ability to go

bro broadscale. it is just kind of a real moral killer when you look at everything we have done to see this happen. we thought we did really well in the election. >> i'm going to ask something and if they say that's a stupid question, but why is it that one venn sor lad so many federal government contracts? that seems to be, that seems like it should have been identified as a potential as a ruler in ability. >> that is a good question, but i think ultimately it becomes a function of the scale and enormity. many times it could be any aspect, and if you look at the bids that go out, there is is

not many vendors that can do what they need on such a widespread scale. you can get through on all of the governments in terms of a wide lane. >> so if we're so confidence that our election was secure, were we too focused -- that is the wrong word. were we so focused on that that we didn't keep our eye on what else was going on? is this just that -- are we just -- is this just that hard to defend? >> i think it is that hard to defend. whether or not that is in the latest, you can look back 20 years. we started to receive signer

attacks. i think it is the completionty that in growing out our signcyb security strr, we just can't. we need more of these capabilities. we have a number of adversaries trying to penetrate that. i think the last thing that i'm most concerned about is why do they not fear us. what is it that we're not doing. >> speaking of deterrents, i see what you did there with army and the air force, but i would like a little more, i would like to see a little more color, a little bigger block letters there. army getting to pull off

something you don't normally get to do. navy and air force in back to back weeks. that's one way to end 2020. thank you, clint watts, for your exper cease. >> thanks, chuck. chuck ♪ [ engines revving ] ♪ it's amazing to see them in the wild like th-- shhh. [ engine revs ] for those who were born to ride, there's progressive.

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good afternoon i'm katy tur, the moderna vaccine is still on track for a late week approval. a member of the panel joins me in just a moment. the process is moving fast, but not dangerously so, says dr. fauci. >> speed is a reflection of the extraordinary scientific advances in vaccine platform technology that allowed us to get here confirmly. also the enorm