appointees ordered policies that could have contributed to the surges and to the deaths last summer. emails now uncovered by congressman jim clyburn's coronavirus subcommittee showing how trump appointee, hhs appointee paul alexander repeatedly pushed for the discredited herd immunity theory to let covid spread unchecked, writing, quote, who cares if we test more and get more positive tests, and, infants, kids, teens, young people, young adults, middle-aged with no conditions, have zero to little risk, we want them to get infected, close quote. kristen welker joins me now. kristen, at the time the president himself was extolling herd immunity, something tried in sweden with distrust results and promoted by white house task force member scott atlas, we heard from the president

directly on this last july. >> reporter: we did, and this is incredibly controversial, andrea, because you would have such a significantly high death toll. let's look at that exchange. >> it is going to disappear. it's going to disappear. it would go away without the vaccine, george. >> it would go away without the vaccine? >> sure, over a period of time, sure, with time. >> and many deaths. >> and you'll develop herd -- like a herd mentality, it's going to be herd developed and that's going to happen. that will all happen. >> reporter: now, when the president said "herd mentality" there he presumably meant "herd immunity." but again, a highly controversial notion that the disease will go away without the vaccine and it was one that was being pushed by scott atlas who has now of course stepped down from his position here and a lot of, i can tell you, top health experts are breathing a sigh of relief about that, that he's no longer the person who is closest

in counseling the president on this issue. now that there is, of course, this revelation, undoubtedly congress will be looking into this, andrea. of course it does come as we are getting the first doses of the vaccine and as we're learning that vice president mike pence is going to actually get the vaccine on camera. we expect that to happen tomorrow. we're still trying to get the specific details. we've asked over and over again if president trump is going to get the vaccine as well. of course he has had covid, he has the antibodies so white house officials say it's a little complicated, he doesn't want to be seen as someone getting ahead of the line particularly given that he has the antibodies. but could it be important in terms of instilling public trust in the vaccine? a lot of people on both sides of the aisle think it would be. again, vice president mike pence will be getting the vaccine tomorrow. we anticipate president-elect joe biden will be getting the vaccine as early as next week, andrea. >> and kristen, thank you. before i let you go, everyone be sure to take a look, it's

already online, the new issue of "vogue" magazine, which profiles our friends, kristen welker and savannah guthrie. read the article about how savannah guthrie and kristen welker won the 2020 election coverage. the two leading journalists of all the journalists, an amazing tribute to two of our favorite people and favorite colleagues. >> reporter: thank you, andrea, neither of us could have done it without you. >> you did it on your own, my dear. it's great. joining us now, dr. celine gounder, a member of the biden/harris transition covid advisory board, an epidemiologist in the bellevue hospital in new york. dr. gounder, thank you very much, let's begin with the disturbing report from congressman clyburn, it's all there in the emails, in the summer, paul alexander writing to the fda commissioner hahn,

that we should flood the zone with the infected. redfield was involved at the cdc. what's your reaction, at the highest levels of our top scientific organizations in the federal government? >> well, this is why you really do need to have the scientists and doctors in charge of a public health response like this. and unfortunately the work of the cdc was compromised by political meddling. at the same time, looking forward we now have a new cdc director nominated, dr. rochelle walensky who has worked for decades in infectious diseases and public health as a researcher at harvard. i myself have worked with her, she is a phenomenal scientist, leader, mentor to people. and so i think to have somebody like that leading the organization really will change the tenor of what we hear coming out of the cdc and really should have people feeling a lot more

confident about how the cdc will be functioning moving forward. >> now, turning to vaccines, big news expected from moderna with the advisory board meeting today on their recommendation, combined with the discovery that extra doses were found within the initial pfizer shipments to help operation warp speed. do you think that had help them hit the 20 million doses goal by the end of the year that they've been pro claiming? i asked moncef slaoui a couple of days ago and he said they're still on track with regard to the supply chain with pfizer. >> the us government has promised 100 million doses to come from pfizer, some by the end of the calendar year, some in early 2021. that means 50 million people vaccinated. and if we have six instead of five doses per vial, that means that you would go up to 60 million instead of 50 million people vaccinated. that is certainly helpful. that's an improvement.

but you have to remember, we have 330 million people in this country. and so that inches us towards that goal. but it's not a game changer. >> and moderna is supposed to have twice as much as the initial amount pfizer had, if it's approved, and if it starts rolling next week, which seems likely according to everything we're hearing so far. >> yeah, you know, and i think this is really promising. they have very similar technologies, very similar levels of efficacy, essentially the same. and i think what is helpful with respect to the moderna vaccine is that it has also been shown to be stable at temperatures that are more typical for vaccine storage, so not the ultracold temperatures that the pfizer vaccine requires. it means it will be easier to distribute the moderna vaccine for example in rural areas, regular doctors' offices that don't have those ultracold

freezers. >> and we did hear about two health care workers in alaska having what they called fairly minor reactions, allergic reactions. one of them at least was in the hospital overnight with iv meds, had to be repeatedly medicated before that person came out of what appears to be anaphylaxis and supposedly that person had no prior experience with anaphylaxis so would not have been someone heeding the obvious warnings that had already been attached to the pfizer vaccine. >> right. well, this is also why we're currently advising that everybody who is vaccinated remain at the vaccination facility for observation for at least 15 minutes after receiving the vaccination, because they do have onsite epinephrine or the epipens we use to treat such a reaction. it's also important to remember that even if this is a one in a million kind of reaction, when you're going to be vaccinating as many people as we will be, again, 330 million people in

this country alone, one in a million translates to 330 anaphylactic reactions. so you are going to be hearing about this, this should be no surprise. i think the key is to remember that this is something that we can treat, and that no one has had serious complications from. this is something we can manage. >> the states of course have an authority in our system to order different priorities as to who gets the first vaccines after the health care workers, the nursing home residents. there are different definitions of emergency workers, though. we're seeing competition now from groups representing firefighters, food workers, teachers, and arguably black and latino communities who have had some disproportionate results being affected by covid and deaths, or older americans with co-morbidities. what about minority communities, shouldn't they have a place high up in line? how do you make these decisions between different groups and won't different states obviously have different priorities? >> certainly different states

will have different priorities, in part because they have different industries. and so the specific critical infrastructure groups in any particular state may not always be identical. the other thing with respect to communities of color is they do tend to be concentrated in those critical infrastructure jobs, those front line essential worker jobs. and so by prioritizing those professions, you are in fact prioritizing the needs of communities of color who have been hit so hard in part because they are in those jobs. >> dr. gounder, thank you so much. so far all good news on one front but of course the terrible numbers, the positive cases, as well as the deaths. this is not going to end anytime soon. so your concluding message, i assume, is wear the masks, keep social distance, we're not over this yet by a long shot. >> yeah, that's right. mask up.

>> thanks again. and let's go west and see what creative ideas state officials there are enacting to make sure front line workers get the pfizer vaccine in a safe and speedy way. nbc's megan fitzgerald is in phoenix, arizona. megan, what have you been seeing this morning? >> reporter: andrea, this is a massive undertaking. honor health along with mayo clinic and other partners have been working on this process for the last several months to try and make sure it goes as efficiently as possible, because they'll be vaccinating a thousand people a day, over the next two weeks 15,000 people. 21 days from now they'll be doing the entire process again to get that second dose. this morning we had an opportunity to walk along with a doctor as she went through this process. here is how it works. folks will be pulling onto the lot behind me here, they'll pull up to a registration booth to confirm their identity and prove they actually have an appointment. then they'll pull into these tents which you can probably see

over my shoulder here. that's where the vaccination happens. they roll down their window, they get vaccinated in their arm, then they pull forward where they'll be observed for 15 minutes to make sure there isn't any adverse effects to the vaccine. we talked to dr. tiffany pankow at the end of this process. take a listen to what she had to say. >> it was a really easy process, all done through i.t., we went in, signed up, got our appointment, got our information ahead of time so we had a chance to look things over and feel confident coming in, went flew our registration process, and came through, sat where we were observed for 15 minutes so make sure i was safe and had folks around to check on me. i felt really comfortable and safe to get it. >> reporter: now, this location here is going to be open 8:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. mountain time, of course local time here in arizona, for the next 15 days, andrea. >> megan fitzgerald. one final note overseas,

france's president macron has tested positive for covid and has immediately gone into a seven-day isolation. one of the issues is he was in brussels meeting with other european leaders, that's required other heads of government throughout europe to go into quarantine as well. we wish him of course the best of health and recovery. meanwhile, as congress closes in on a deal to help americans struggling during the pandemic, what is going to be included? the latest on the negotiations from capitol hill, coming up next. and also ahead, what are we learning about the massive hack of u.s. government and majority corporate servers attributed to russian spies? this is msnbc. n spies? this is msnbc. [ engine rumbling ] ♪ [ beeping ] [ engine revs ] ♪ uh, you know there's a 30-minute limit, right? tell that to the rain.

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congress is close, they say, close but not there, to cutting a deal on that $900 billion coronavirus relief package to rescue struggling americans set to lose their employment benefits the day after christmas and potentially become homeless

when their rental moratorium expires. senate minority leader chuck schumer on the senate floor a short time ago. >> we're very close to an agreement. but the details really matter. >> the bill will likely include a new round of stimulus checks of at least $600 per person, that's half what was approved last march, and an extension of federal unemployment insurance benefits, more money for businesses and vaccine distribution funds. but as negotiations now stand it will not include state and local funding, liability protection for businesses, or significant support for restaurants. obviously a struggling industry. and now the president has tossed a grenade into any plans for congress to get out of town, at least get out of town without having to come back. he tweeted today he is going to veto the usually sacrosanct bipartisan defense authorization act that funds military pay raises. the entire pentagon budget, for that matter, but against the president's wishes, it would rename bases honoring

confederate bases among other issues he does not like. nbc's garrett haake is on capitol hill. garrett, you know this better than anyone, on the defense bill, it passed with veto-proof majorities, but that may not obtain if it comes down to an actual override threat because all of those republicans could peel off, right? >> reporter: yeah, i think that's right. you could see republicans like kevin mccarthy, the republican leader on the house side, for example, he voted for the bill when the conference report came out but said he would not vote to sustain an override, he would stay with the president. you may get some democrats who voted against this bill because they have problems with elements of it coming back into the fold to balance them out. it's worth noting, andrea, the president has had this bill on his desk since last friday. the tweet is not a part of the constitutional process of vetoing a bill. the president could have vetoed this any day between last friday and today. and the fact that he continues to tweet the threat suggests to me at least that this is still some kind of negotiation, that perhaps he sees something else he wants out there. i don't think he wants to have a

late january fight with the republican-controlled senate who would have to come back to override the veto as one of the last things he does as president. but that remains to be seen. >> or he could just be setting the stage for a so-called pocket veto once they get out of town, which he can do. they would have to come back to try to override him. >> reporter: regardless. >> let's get to the covid package. is there a hangup? we thought we were going to hear from speaker pelosi today. now senator schumer says they're close but not there. is there a last-minute haggling going on? because they still have to get the language written before they can leave. >> reporter: that's right. remember, a lot of the provisions in this bill have been floating around on capitol hill for some time so there are some things that are plug and play that can go into this piece. particularly the elements they've changed at the last minute, the addition of stimulus checks, there is for example an inclusion of some money that

would go to fema in this, that republicans are concerned could be a back doorway to get aid to state and local governments, sort of against their pro testations on this particular issue. everybody is on broad agreement on what will go into this package but how do we control how the money gets spent so the language in the bill texts reflects the agreements being made behind closed doors? all of that is pretty important when you're writing a $900 billion bill and it's a time consuming process. that's where we are at this moment. >> and mitch mcconnell has said on a call yesterday that georgia's senators, kelly loeffler and david perdue, facing runoffs, are getting hammered back home over the failure to come up with an agreement for aid. so it's become an issue in the runoff campaign. >> reporter: yeah, look, there's an expectation, if you're an

incumbent senator, that you govern. covid remains the dominant issue in american politics. these two republican senators have records or lack thereof that they need to run on when it comes to covid relief. mcconnell sees everything in the political spectrum through the lens of protecting the senate majority. if this can help in georgia, one more reason to do it expeditiously. >> do you think it could be done today, finally? >> reporter: i think we could have an announcement today. the process of voting this thing across the finish line could keep us here all weekend, andrea. >> that i know. thank you so much, garrett, you're all over this. thanks for being with us. jouining us now, congresswoman abigail spanberger who serves on the foreign affairs committee among other committees, so good to see you, thank you, congresswoman. what are you hearing from the speaker as to whether or not this is actually coming together? >> it's coming together. and we have been working on this, you know, a bipartisan group of house members and

senators have been working to build out a framework. it's exciting to see, i'll say with tempered enthusiasm, it's exciting to see we are now in the final stages. everything that i have heard is that we continue to be on the right path, certainly as garrett mentioned, hammering out some of the final details, particularly on the elements that have been recent adjustments and changes, at this point what's taking that additional time. >> now, of course, democrats had to give up the state and local help, and states have to balance their budgets, then the restaurant industry is not protected, and they're really disproportionately affected by the pandemic, and shutdowns, lockdowns. how do you justify that back home, when you haven't achieved that after all these months? >> support for small businesses, particularly throughout central virginia, restaurants, live entertainment venues, are in fact the lifeblood of a region

where people come and visit, they go hiking, they spend time at tourist and historical locations, then they go out to eat. and it's a community gathering focus. and i have had conversation after conversation with restaurant owners and live venue managers throughout our district. it continues to be priority, ensuring that they can have access to ppe funding is incredibly important and certainly an element of the larger package, making sure that they don't have an unexpected tax liability is also something that i have been aggressively advocating for along with my colleagues. and we're continuing the conversations to make sure that restaurant owners and live entertainment venues that are particularly impacted, when we know we need to be wearing masks in public to keep ourselves and others safe, it is undeniable, the impact that that has on a venue where people are supposed

to go without a mask and eat and enjoy the company of others. so we're continuing to push to make sure that they, you know, through the ppp program, can continue to keep their businesses going, particularly through this tremendously difficult time. >> and one of your colleagues, one of your very prominent colleagues, freshman alexandria ocasio-cortez, had this to say to the intercept about the leadership of these negotiations. >> i do think we need new leadership in the democratic party. >> do you agree with her? she called out both speaker pelosi and leader schumer. >> we're a broad tent party. i have long maintained that we need to have new voices and new leadership across the board. and frankly, andrea, that's why i've been working with colleagues, fellow democrats, in

the house of representatives for weeks and actually months to put forth bipartisan and negotiated, and i say bipartisan because we have a republican senate and a republican in the white house, we need to ensure that the relief we're negotiating will make it to the president's desk, get signed into law and deliver relief to the american people. leadership is what you make of it. it's a title but it is also the actions that we take. and for those of us who have spent hours upon hours and weeks upon weeks in zoom meetings, in the senate basement, on conference calls, working to push forth a framework that would allow, you know, those with perhaps more esteemed titles to get back to the negotiating table, i'm proud of the work that so many of us have done. and i do hope that we can continue to recognize that there are people who are demonstrating leadership at all levels. we are a broad, big-tent party, and we have some incredible folks across the spectrum. and when it comes to delivering

relief to the american people, as we are looking at the highest levels of people applying for unemployment since the summer months, when we are looking at more than 12 million americans who are set to lose their employment benefits the day after christmas, millions of americans potentially facing eviction, the focus needs to be on delivering relief to them, to our communities, and to the small businesses across virginia and the country. and that's what everyone is focused on. ideally, at this point in time, that is our job, to govern, to legislate, and to deliver relief. i'm proud to have been a part of pushing this forward and i look forward to voting on this bill in the coming days once the final stages of the negotiation lead to final bill text, as garrett reported. >> thank you, thank you very much, as always, congresswoman abigail spanberger from

virginia. and more than a week after officials were first alerted to the single biggest hack on u.s. agencies, why is president trump still silent about vladimir putin? senator chris coons of the senate foreign relations committee joins me next. you're watching "andrea mitchell reports." this is msnbc. nbc. ♪ wow! a new buick? for me? to james, from james. that's just what i wanted. is this a new buick? i secret santa-ed myself. oh i shouldn't have. but i have been very good this year. wow! wow! wow! don't forget you this holiday season, get an s-you-v, from buick. celebrate the holidays with buick, now everyone can get gm employee pricing on most buick suv models. use it to get over 76 hundred total value on this envision essence.

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now to what is believed to be the largest hack on the u.s. government by a foreign adversary with hackers appearing to be tied to russian intelligence targeting multiple u.s. agencies including treasury, homeland security, the state department, the pentagon, for months, undetected. experts say they got in through a corrupted software update downloaded by 18,000 public and private users. government agencies were not aware until recently when they were alerted by a private security company, fireeye, which uncovered the hack and told the government. the fbi and other agencies are now acknowledging that the hacking that began six to nine months ago also targeted 14 fortune 500 companies in what "the new york times" is calling one of the greatest intelligence failures in modern times. former trump homeland security adviser tom bossert writing, we

must act as if the russian government has control of all the networks it has penetrated. but it is unclear what the russians intend to do next, he writes, arguing it could be far more than simply spying. bossert says this requires entirely new networks to be built and isolated from the comprehensive networks, much broader than just a patch, because it is impossible to determine how far the russian malicious code has penetrated. russian president vladimir putin was asked broadly today about charges that russia has hacked the u.s. >> translator: this reminds me very much what was happening in 2016. remember who caught those hackers, criminals related to the intelligence services of russia, those were the cia and others. so it was at their behest that this was done. >> joining me now is former fbi special agent and msnbc national security analyst clint watts. clint, i've been wanting to talk

to you for days since the alert came from fireeye. we have not heard a word from the president of the united states or his top national security officials. >> andrea, it's pretty remarkable, right? if this were china, what would we have heard out of the president's mouth? again, just rewind over the last six to seven years what russia has done in cyber, related to the united states. 2016, the election. now this time we do really well in terms of protecting the election in 2020 but what are we missing? we're missing essentially a very sophisticated supply chain hack where they essentially tunnelled in through software updates that were going not just across the government but, as we know, across all of our industries, fortune 500 companies. when you think about this, we've spent billions over the last few years trying to be able to detect just a hack exactly like this or throughout any of these networks. and it failed. and in fact, we've probably helped elevate russia's game. they've gotten more sophisticated.

this attack is much more complex and it's much more pervasive around our country. this requires a response. this comes along with reports that it is believed it was probably the russians using some sort of a sonic weapon against diplomats, intelligence officers. election 2016 aggression in africa, russian private military companies and troops showing up in syria, libya, and assassination, poisoning of russian dissident navalny and other europeans across europe. and president trump says nothing. it is long past time for the u.s. to stand up and fight. and the reason we keep getting pushed is because we don't fight back. >> let's talk about this hack. how do we do a damage assessment? we don't know howev far they've gone, whether they've gotten through the software and the corruption of our computers, whether they've gotten into classified data.

>> andrea, i imagine it will take probably two to three months for them to really fully scope out the damage into everywhere that this has gone. this was essentially a doorway for the russian hackers to essentially get inside computer systems. we also, much like tom bossert's excellent op-ed today, noted, we have to now look, did they come in the door and establish other doors or did they establish other hacks peripherally through the system? that will take an intense examination. it's also hard to know if you've caught everything. so this sort of forensic work will tie up a lot of our cybersecurity specialists in both the private and public sector. it's going to be enormous damage in cost and will take a tremendous amount of time for us to get our hands around what actually happened and how severe it is. we all are hoping it didn't hit the most sensitive systems, the most classified systems that we have in the u.s. government. >> but if we didn't know this, how do we know what we don't

know? >> i think that's a big fear, andrea. how do we make sure that once we go through this deep dive, that we're cleaning up all the systems and really flushing out any sort of trace of russian activity? >> thank you, clint watts. joining me now is democratic senator chris coons of delaware, a member of the foreign relations committee. senator, i don't think you've been briefed on this, i don't know, have you been briefed on this yet? >> andrea, no, i have not had a detailed, classified brief. but just from that brief conversation you just had, this is a chilling example of how aggressive russian cyber activities have become. deterrence has failed. after they took aggressive action to interfere in our 2016 election, after they've taken actions in a number of other countries, as clint just detailed, we have failed to deter the russians. we are only going to see putin stop this kind of behavior when we stop him. and democrats and republicans

and the incoming administration need to come together around a workable plan to deter further russian aggression that interferes with our country and our systems. >> at this point, isn't this an atta attack? and how do you distinguish this from cyber war? >> it's pretty hard to distinguish this from an act of aggression that rises to the level of an attack that qualifies as war. i don't know the details of this attack yet. but from all the open source reporting we're getting, including the summary you just heard, this is as destructive and broad scale an engagement with our military systems, our intelligence systems, as has happened in my lifetime. >> and what should the president be doing? what would a president biden be doing right now? >> anything. president trump should be doing anything. he should be speaking out about

it. he should be calling putin on the carpet and demanding a forceful response from the united states and all of our allies and demanding a change in behavior by putin. instead he's silent. and part of why putin has felt comfortable taking riskier and riskier and more and more aggressive actions, targeted assassinations against dissidents or defectors, aggressive actions on the ground in libya, in syria, and most notably, in ukraine, and then his direct interference in our 2016 election, is because we have failed to deter him. >> and what about putin's comments today on this and on navalny and his dnenials of all of his aggression? >> of course he's going to deny that he had anything to do with this. but we rely on our intelligence services to give us a detailed analysis of incidents like this. i believe the russians attacked our 2016 election and we heard

in testimony after testimony by trump administration officials that that happened and we needed to take it seriously and we needed to act to deter. we heard from krebs, who testified to congress, that our 2020 election was as secure from cyber intrusion as any in the modern age and he was fired for telling that truth. we need an administration who calls it like it is and stands up to russia. that will be the biden administration, starting january 20. >> how seriously do you take president trump's tweet today threatening to veto the defense authorization act? >> we never know exactly what president trump is going to do. so i take that very seriously. we've just had conversations amongst my colleagues about the very real likelihood we will have to come back between christmas and new year's to override his veto. his justification for why he

would override the most important national security bill that we pass every year doesn't rise to the level of a presidential justification for that strong of an action. he will almost certainly have that veto overridden. i hope he will reconsider that being his last or next to last action as president, vetoing the defense authorization bill and having his veto overridden on a bipartisan basis by congress. >> thank you so much, senator coons, great to see you. we hope there's some action on the covid relief package soon, if not today, tomorrow. >> we can't go home without it. that action is imminent. >> that's good news. now, can you get home? snow bound northeast digging out today, up to three feet of snow in some parts. the latest on the conditions, next on "andrea mitchell reports." stay with us, this is msnbc. tchl reports. stay with us, this is msnbc. liberty mutual customizes your home insurance,

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tens of millions of americans are still under winter weather advisories as that massive snowstorm continues to make its way through new england after slam the atlantic coast and major cities in the northeast where they're still digging out. nbc's gabe gutierrez has the latest from central park. >> reporter: hi there, andrea. it's a picturesque scene here in central park. we're actually seeing more snow than we did all of last winter. for many new yorkers, this is a welcome change in scenery. you see some of them behind me walking their dogs, taking pictures of central park. many of them have been cooped up inside their apartments since much earlier this year, since the pandemic began ravaging the city. this is a welcome change of pace for them. still, this is a very dangerous storm for some states. it's being blamed for at least four deaths across the east coast. tens of thousands of people are without power. major travel delays throughout pennsylvania. there was an incident where

first responders were on the scene of an accident and had to rush out of the way as another car came careening into their vehicle. just a dramatic video captured on dash cam. thankfully no one was cereaseri injured there. hundreds of flights canceled today, rail service limited. here in new york at least it's a welcome change of pace for a city that's seen so much darkness this year. right now i saw children making snow men, people walking their dogs, enjoying a very beautiful morning here in central park. again, as this storm makes its way through the northeast, there are several states under states of emergency, and if you don't have to be outside, authorities are urging you to stay home. andrea? >> thanks to you, gabe gutierrez. a welcome change of pace for gabe as well, after all the hard work he has done on covid cases.

and as president-elect biden's cabinet comes together, is the president-elect delivering on his promise to build a government that looks like america? the president and ceo of the national urban league, moarc morial, joining me next. t. took advantage of any american senior, or worse, that it was some way to take your home. learn how homeowners are strategically using a reverse mortgage loan to cover expenses, pay for healthcare, preserve your portfolio and so much more. a reverse mortgage loan isn't some kind of trick to take your home. it's a loan, like any other. big difference is how you pay it back. find out how reverse mortgages really work with aag's free, no-obligation reverse mortgage guide. with a reverse mortgage, you can pay whatever you can, when it works for you, or, you can wait, and pay it off in one lump sum when you leave your home. discover the option that's best for you.

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so far president-elect biden has picked at least nine people of color and seven women to fill cabinet level positions. now the first openly gay cabinet nominee. >> this cabinet will be the most representative of any cabinet in american history. we'll have more people of color than any cabinet ever. more women than any cabinet never. we'll have a cabinet of barrier breakers. a cabinet of firsts. >> that, of course, pete buttigieg yesterday for transportation. but pressure from civil rights and other groups have led him to delay his choice originally for the pentagon and ultimately select retired general lloyd austin, who is black, over other possibilities who had been leading contenders. also an issue as he has still not filled the last big cabinet post, attorney general, amid concerns that some of his options do not have sufficient records in addressing racial inequality in the justice system. joining me is the president and

ceo of national urban league who was one of the leaders of the civil rights groups who met with the president-elect last week. let's talk about the -- >> good morning. or rather, good afternoon. >> good morning. well, it's kind of -- you're right. >> afternoon where you are, morning where i am, but good to be with you. >> it's always good to see you. mark moriel, let's talk about what you discussed with the president-elect. first of all, on attorney general. there have been some objections reported to doug jones, senator jones from alabama. he was notably the prosecutor of the ku klux klan and the birmingham bombing back from the 1960s. but complaints he has not had a prolonged, active role that leads up and continues through the current criminal justice crisis. >> so thank you for having me, again. with respect to the department of justice, in my own view, the

gold standard is eric holder who had the lived experience of beaning african-american, who had experience in the justice department and experience in the judiciary. had a career as a great lawyer, and he brought all of that to bear as attorney general. having said that, there's no question that within the civil rights community an african-american candidate, i think, would be preferred. but having said that, i think it's important that the nominee have the confidence of the president because this is a deeply personal choice and a commitment to civil rights enforcement, which has been lacking in the current administration. so while there's jockeying about names, i can say that tony west and deval patrick have been names that i've been impressed with that i had a positive

conversation with both sally yates and doug jones. i do not know, nor have i ever met merrick garland whose name is also said to be on a list or being under consideration. so i think that the other thing that's important with the department of justice is who the attorney general is, but who holds those key second level positions. the deputy position, the assistant attorney general's position, the person in charge of civil rights enforcement. i'd like to see a team of people who reflect the experience and the diversity necessary to really change the course of the justice department which is basically lost its way when it comes to its solemn obligation to enforce civil rights and protect justice in this country. >> let me ask about the engs

post. secretary of education has been a very controversial position under betsy devos. "the washington post" is now reporting that after several union leaders were talked about, teachers' names, now there are two lesser known names but they would have a great deal to say for diversity. leslie fenwick from the howard university school of education and miguel furdona. your reaction to either or both of them? >> so not very familiar. dean fenwick is well known in many, many circles. here's what's important at the department of education, like justice, like hud. there say cleanup job that has to be done. you want someone with the gravitas, with the will and passion and skill to do that cleanup job. the department of education has not taken, i think, its mandate to ensure that every child is well educated seriously.

i think it's been on a diversion course chasing if you will, privatization of public education, and not its mandate, its important mandate included in the elementary and secondary education act. so those names are, i think, attractive. but what is so important with the remaining cabinet post, whether it's justice, education or labor is that they meet the test that having a commitment to the president-elect's stated mission. one thing joe biden said unequivocally in our meeting with him that was favorable is that he is going to ensure that racial justice is a part of everything his administration pursues. >> well, we're going to have to leave it there. marc morial, great to see you.

>> thank you. see you again. appreciate it. that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." chuck todd is up next with "mtp daily" only on msnbc. msnbc ♪ we'd be closer to the twins. change in plans. at fidelity, a change in plans is always part of the plan. my job is to help new homeowners who have turned into their parents. i'm having a big lunch and then just a snack for dinner. so we're using a speakerphone in the store. is that a good idea? one of the ways i do that is to get them out of the home. you're looking for a grout brush, this is -- garth, did he ask for your help? -no, no. -no. we all see it. we all see it. he has blue hair. -okay. -blue. progressive can't protect you from becoming your parents, but we can protect your home and auto when you bundle with us. -keep it coming. -you don't know him.

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if it's thursday, a second dose of hope amid this raging pandemic. fda advisers are meeting right now to greenlight moderna's covid vaccine the day after we just saw the deadliest day of the pandemic yet. plus, lawmakers are racing to finish work on a $900 billion covid relief package as jobless claims in this country rise again. but president trump, he's focused on trying to block funding for the military. no acknowledgment of what's happening with covid. and new reporting on what happened inside the administration's pandemic response. we'll speak with the house's top pandemic investigator on what his committee has just learned. we'll also s