press, jonathan lemire. filling in for kasie d.c. this morning. and from "the financial times" ed luce is with us early this morning. >> the kids are talking about how lemire's performance -- >> it was good. >> on "way too early," much like elvis' first performance on ed sullivan. of course, he was shaking his hips too. >> yeah. >> like sullivan was banned from the waist down. that's why we had to do the same thing with lemire, but other than that -- >> good. >> jonathan lemire, great job. a perfect person to have this morning because one of the most infamous moments of the presidency was in helsinki when you asked if he was going to believe his intel community or whether he was going to believe vladimir putin and let's just say he did not choose wisely. we had the -- perhaps the finale of that this weekend.

talk about pompeo versus trump now and if there's anybody in the united states government or on capitol hill that agrees with donald trump that this wasn't a russian hack. >> well, first of all, just trying to keep the seat warm for kasie here and it is probably for the best that i'm shot only from the belt up. that should be standard for all msnbc programming. but you're right, joe, the trump administration is sort of ending as it began with the president being widely deferential to moscow, to russia, and, you know, he never punished them or challenged them for the 2016 election hack. we know that he has defied advisers' council to be tougher on russia, insisting a better relationship could be formed with moscow, with vladimir putin and you're right. perhaps the signature moment was in helsinki when he decided to side with putin rather than the u.s. intelligence agencies for

who was responsible for 2016. once again he's undercut the top advisers and across from all branches of government, the president cast doubt on that, suggested that well, maybe it's china who of course he's vilified for its handling of the coronavirus pandemic. and again, letting russia off the hook. suggesting that they were perhaps not to blame and mystifying advisers who were not sure what the upside were for him in his last 30 odd days in office. he's dug into this position and refusing to change. once again, perhaps endangering security and allowing russia perhaps permission to do this again. that as a final point, this is a fear. this is soot act of aggression that's going unpunished and we heard biden speak out about it and perhaps when they come to

office they will levy sanctions russia. but from this white house, silence. >> ed luce, you go down the list of aggressive actions by vladimir putin, by russia, and donald trump's either forgiveness or explanation or denial and the list has gotten so long over the past four years. so you go back to this summer, finding out that vladimir putin had put bounties on the heads of american troops in afghanistan. now remember, upon hearing the news thinking well maybe, just maybe donald trump can't turn a blind eye to this. where putin's been caught actually trying to kill american troops and paying terrorists to do so. yet, he did then, he did in helsinki. he continues to even now.

>> yeah, it's interesting, joe, you asked jonathan who in the administration might be agreeing with trump that it could be china or anybody but russia. we now know that last week michael flynn was in the oval office. of course he's not in the administration, but if we look at how the trump administration began, michael flynn was the first casualty of it. having lied to the fbi about his contacts during the transition with the russian ambassador. we're now looking at the end of the trump administration with the very same convicted michael flynn urging president trump to use i guess putinesque measures, using martial law to overturn this election. i don't why putin has over trump, what i there's a strange denialism about anything that

russia does. but i do know there are other people who are close to russia and who are also close to trump in these crucial, very, very important last 30 days where he still has the massive powers of the u.s. president. >> well, while we're on the subject of michael flynn, president trump is looking for new ways to undermine the election results and that includes a flynn push to idea of declaring martial law in swing states and then using a conspiracy theorist to help overturn the election. we'll get to trump's ongoing coup attempt in just a moment. but first, after eight long months congress has reached a $900 billion coronavirus relief deal. at the include $600 checks meaning a family of four can get up to $2,400 depending on the

income. there's payments of up to $300 a week for federal unemployment benefits would could begin as early as next week and $25 billion in rental assistance and an extension on an eviction moratorium which was set to run out in days. the bipartisan bill does not include liability protections. let's bring in senior washington correspondent and co-author of the politico playbook, anna palmer, with more on this. anna, tell us the details of the deal, some of the sticking points and where do we go from here? >> it's been a long, drug out negotiation as we're all aware and they finally got it in the -- in the last gasp before the end of 2020 have come to a

deal here in washington. both sides are unhappy which is what happens when the big, massive deals come together. i think one of the biggest things that sticks out to me that we haven't seen text of this bill even though they're expected to be voting on it in the coming hours. the white house says it's going to sign it in. the big question remains, what future could there be for any more money, more stimulus coming and this could be one of the last packages and relief efforts that congress is able to do. >> so jonathan lemire, the president wanted more money, more than $600. talked about getting -- becoming involved in the process, but really didn't so much in the end and you actually had that bipartisan consensus group in the center starting with joe manchin and mitt romney driving this from the start. >> yeah. it's a relief for so many americans that this deal is

finally done, though of course frustration that it took so long. and you're right, president trump really played a hands off role. secretary treasure mnuchin was involved, but the president wasn't part of it, but he almost blew it up late last week when he wanted much larger checks into the hands of americans and told that the republicans in the senate would not go for that. but, you know, now it looks like a bipartisan agreement has been reached and the president is expected to sign this. my question for you would be we heard from both sides of the aisle, that this deal is a first step or perhaps a second step after what we saw in the spring and there's hope for another package. we heard from mcconnell and pelosi and schumer saying more will be needed next year. that of course will come under the biden administration. how easy or difficult will this be to put together a package like this? could it be even bigger the next

time around? >> i think it's going to be very, very difficult. i can't underscore that enough. it took months to get this deal done. at the end of the wire. if you look at the majorities in the house in particular, there's going to be very little wiggle room for speaker nancy pelosi to get any deal done, particularly when you look at the house republicans two years later wanting to fight for the majority they're having in their sights every single day. and in the senate you saw a down payment in terms of the things that they didn't get in there, they didn't get that state and local money that they wanted to. but it's hard to see how or what would be the mechanism that would actually force congress to act on this unless there is some really big economic downturn. >> politico's anna palmer, thank you very much for coming on this morning. now back to the wild talk about a special counsel and even using martial law to help overturn the election.

nbc news has confirmed in a meeting that president trump talked about naming election conspiracyist sidney powell to look into the election. the story was first reported by "the new york times" which says that most of the president's advisers opposed the plan. a source tells nbc news that white house counsel pat cipollone and mark meadows cut the meeting off because it was going in an alarming direction. last week on newsmax, former national security adviser michael flynn who also participated in the meeting floated the idea of seizing voting machines and deploying the military to rerun the election in swing states. "the washington post," "the new york times" and the associated

press reported that trump asked about the idea during a meeting and a source says that the proposal was shot down by mark meadows and cipollone. the president denied it calling it fake news and the army said, quote, there is no role for the u.s. military in determining the outcome of an election. according to "the times" trump attorney rudy giuliani participated in the friday meeting by phone and that he also pushed back on the special counsel idea, but that's perhaps because giuliani focused on his own effort to overturn the election by seizing the voting machines. axios is following up on the reporting by "the new york times," that trump attorney rudy giuliani called the second in command at the department of homeland security to attempt to access the machines for the trump campaign to inspect.

the conversation between mr. giuliani and ken cuccinelli, the acting deputy homeland security, took place in the last week, according to people familiar with the discussion. who were granted anonymity because they were not authorized to describe it. cuccinelli reportedly told giuliani that the department has no authority to seize voting machines, though it oversees the cyber security and infrastructure security agency or cisa. "the times" reports it is unclear if mr. trump facilitated the phone call. giuliani called cuccinelli to push the department to re-examine the machines to find evidence of what the trump campaign has called widespread fraud. "the times" reporter maggie haberman said that powell pitched an executive order to seize the machines during a

friday white house meeting. let's bring in msnbc national security analyst michael schmidt for this. >> it is so confusing baud sidney powell said that kelly loeffler had rigged the election with kemp, but she's not part of the team. interesting. i'm struck by something that jonah goldberg wrote last week that donald trump was out of his mind and if he had told republicans six months ago what donald trump was going to be doing now, they would accuse him of having trump derangement syndrome. it's gotten so bad they would have been shocked even six months ago and yet here they are remaining quiet for the most part and not calling him out for this. but i just jotted down while mika was reading. this is what he's done over the last month or so.

called for the arrest of joe biden and his family. refused to guarantee a peaceful transfer of power and now this weekend we hear about calling for martial law. and in fact, the president asking whether he could call martial law. talking about the seizing of voting machines. the -- the accusing of the republican governors and secretaries of state and local officials of being in a conspiracy with hugo chavez and josef stalin and whoever else. and getting to the point where yes, liberals, this weekend the defenders of the republican were ken cuccinelli and mark meadows, think about that for a moment. but michael, it is getting actually to the point where you just wonder if we shouldn't just get rid of the 25th amendment

because at any other time, any other sane time, it would be used to temporarily remove a president from office if he were talking about these sort of things. >> look, i think that it is a fact at this point that if donald trump could, he would steal the election and he would stay there, regardless of anything else. and that he's truly only being held back by folks like cuccinelli and meadows as you were saying, who are truly loyalists. those are not sort of the john kellys or don mcgahns of earlier in the administration. they have been around the president for four years and they were true supporters of him, but are clearly unwilling to go along with this. pat cipollone who authored some of those very outlandish documents defending the president during impeachment,

these are not, you know, the earlier containers of the administration. this is truly the last line of aides that are still around trump. and the sort of -- the symmetry here, the book end of michael flynn, the president's first national security adviser back in the oval office it looks like to provide his opinion if not advise the president on how to use martial law in these incredibly -- i guess, you know, for lack of a better word creative ways of trying to overturn the election. michael flynn, the original tie back to russia, michael flynn who we do not why he lied about his contacts with the russians, and flynn, bill barr, and sidney

powell going to court to throw out his case, to have a judge throw it out, all sort of wrapped it up into one with 30 days left in the trump administration. >> jonathan lemire, i mean, correct me if i'm wrong that this behavior is beyond sanity. absolutely pushing the norms of our democracy and dangerous and unexpected, unchartered territories. what would inspire someone around the president not to do more? not to be urging people to invoke the 25th amendment? it makes me ask questions like can a president pardon himself or does he have to act crazy enough so he can get pardoned by someone else? what would be at play here that would, number one, have the people around him not acting in a serious way about this behavior which is at the very

least undemocratic. and at the very most something that is probably not something i should say on television yet. and what else would be the motivation for this behavior when this election is so clearly over? >> well, i think we need to underscore here, mika, 30 days is a long time. >> it's a long time to do a lot of damage. >> he's president for 30 more days and to your point, we -- we did some of them push back, chief of staff mark meadows included, but there's not left many left in the white house. his circle is growing ever smaller and is listening to the likes of michael flynn and rudy giuliani. there aren't many aides who have his ear, who could sway him to change course in the building. there's growing alarm among the people close to the president

who said he has embraced the outlandish conspiracy theories. that he's convinced that in fact, this was stolen for him. it was about showing supports that he was combating it. but he did lose to joe biden and now he's talked himself into the idea that maybe he hasn't. we know one of the things discussed on friday he had sidney powell appointed being sort of special counsel to look into the election fraud. can you clear this up, does the president have the authority to do that or is that something that has to be done through the department of justice? william barr is in his last days and then it's acting attorney general jeffrey rosen, will rosen do that or will president trump replace him with someone who might? >> like many things donald trump

tests the systems in ways we often thought it wasn't, so we have to re-imagine the government playbook to understand if something like this could happen. it's our sort of assessment that the president could not appoint a special counsel unilaterally on his own. the attorney general would need to do that. the president can't sign an executive order saying here's my -- you know, special counsel. so the question is that if the attorney general would do that, what would the president do that? so the president could replace his attorney general if he did not think that the attorney general was doing as he wanted. so trump could, you know, fire his attorney general whoever that is, and try and get someone in that position to do this. to go through with this. and there is, you know, some history of this in the trump administration where the president has wanted the justice department to take specific actions that he himself the president cannot do. despite what he thinks he's not

the chief law enforcement officer, that's the attorney general. the white house lawyers have determined in different cases for the president that if he does not like what the attorney general is doing, he can't do it himself. he has to replace the attorney general. >> michael schmidt, author of the great book "donald trump versus the united states" thank you for being with us this morning. greatly appreciate it as always. ed luce, you think back to richard nixon's crimes during watergate, some of this things caught on tape, suggesting the taping of political opponents, wiretapping of political opponents. and you compare that to donald trump openly saying this weekend, talking about -- suggesting a coup where the united states military comes on to the streets and voting

machines are seized. they have a coup. and they rerun the election in swing states where donald trump lost. and suddenly, what nixon was doing seems like it's sort of a spring picnic. and what donald trump is doing sounds awfully familiar to what we have gotten used to right-wing and left-wing strong men doing over the years. >> yeah, it is much worse. the fact that, you know, you have the chiefs of the army and people in the pentagon, the generals, disavowing any military role in the electoral outcome is both extremely alarming, but also slightly reassuring. you don't get -- you don't get military chiefs in russia issues statements like that and keeping their jobs.

it's not inconceivable that he goes to the pentagon, to the joint chiefs and asks for the insurrection act within the next 30 days, anything is possible. there's no circumstance in which he'll be admit to being a loser. we know from mary trump, his niece, and what she's told us from trump's upbringing that's what fred trump schooled him in. and we also know that he is going to do anything to keep his leverage for the post presidential legal cases against him. he needs control of the republican party. i guess the difference with the nixon era is that republicans participated with democrats in reforming government after nixon. you have the church committee and groups like that and efforts like that. i don't really see this republican party today as having

any appetite to join in any kind of inquiry as to the abuse of power under president trump. i might be wrong, but i think the real difference between nixon and trump is the republican party. it has changed radically. >> all right. still ahead on "morning joe," countries around the world shut off from travel to and from great britain after a new strain of coronavirus was detected there. we'll tell you what scientists know about it. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. in the worl. narrow it to all the karate moms... in desperate need of brown sugar. meaning, you. you're the one we made mywalgreens for. with pickup in as little as 30 minutes. hiya! get 30-minute pickup at walgreens.com ♪ still warm. ♪ thanks, maggie. oh, alice says hi. for some of us, our daily journey is a short one.

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now to the uk where prime minister boris johnson imposed a lockdown in several areas including london, impacting about a third of the population there. johnson warned that britain was dealing with a new covid-19 strain that's up to 70% more infectious and that he was scrapping plans to allow

households to mix for christmas. >> given the early evidence we have on this new variant of the virus, the potential risk it poses, it is with a very heavy heart i must tell you we cannot continue with christmas as planned. >> over the weekend, countries across europe raced to ban travel from the uk. canada halted flights for 72 hours. new york governor andrew cuomo is calling for a similar ban on travel from the united kingdom. ed luce, this new strain of the coronavirus sounds so ominous. what more can you tell us about the travel bans and what's going on in the uk right now as it pertains to coronavirus and how people are responding to this news? >> i think people are responding very badly. i mean, boris johnson had promised them that christmas wouldn't be canceled as the language goes in britain at the

moment. right up until two or three days ago then he announced this new tier 4 which is a maximum level of restriction. partly because of this so-called mutant strain of covid-19 and the political backlash against johnson's sort of failure to foresee the measures has been huge, but more than that it's prompted the rest of europe to cut britain off, to cut travel from britain, but even freight from britain. at the same time as we've got the failure so far to conclude any deal for britain's exit from europe which happens on january the 1st. if you get a no deal brexit, britain crashing out with the -- coinciding with the travel bans on britain, you're seeing -- well, i guess today is winter solstice, this is the longest night. we're in the longest night in

britain. this is an extraordinary crisis and it's hard to see how boris johnson is going to get out of it. >> well, we'll move now to the latest on the vaccine. president-elect joe biden and dr. jill biden will receive the first doses of the pfizer covid-19 vaccine in delaware today. the shots will be administered in public as the president-elect hopes to send a clear message to the american people that the vaccine is safe. vice president-elect kamala harris is set to receive her first dose of the vaccine next week. that comes as the centers for disease control and prevention advisory committee issued its next set of recommendations for who will receive the vaccine. people ages 75 and older along with essential workers will be next in line following health care workers and those in assisted living centers.

this group deemed phase 1-b includes first responders such as firefighters and police officers, teachers, postal workers and others. all together, about 49 million people. the round is expected to start in the coming weeks after the cdc grants final approval. meanwhile, the first shipments of the moderna vaccine are in transit this morning, as the next line of defense against the coronavirus takes shape. distribution of the vaccine began yesterday just two days after receiving emergency use authorization from the food and drug administration. they will be shipping through mckesson and says the deliveries should arrive by today. according to operation warp speed officials, more than 60 million have been designated to more than 3,200 different locations across the country.

and moderna anticipates that 20 million doses of its vaccine will be delivered by the end of the year. joining us now is dr. peter hotez, dean of the national school of tropical medical at baylor and it's great to have you back on the show. this is hopeful, but maybe from what i just -- the news i just delivered maybe a three-month window here to get the vaccine to all of these first line of defense folks? >> yeah. look, it's a pretty big undertaking. but you know we have done it before. we roll out 85 million doses of influenza vaccine every year and now this is a bit more complicated because of the freezer requirements but the hope is we can move quickly with the moderna vaccine which does not require that minus 100 degree freezer temperature.

it could be stored at refrigerator temperature for a month and if not at minus 20 degrees which is a typical household freezer. there's some optimism we can do that. we learned from the diagnostic testing that our health system can't handle a lot of complexity so i worry about making these guidelines overly fussy or overly stringent when we can't operationalize. >> so trying to kind of bring together the different headlines this morning. we have a ban of travel in the uk, dealing with a more stronger strain of the coronavirus. that's more contagious. do we know -- have you heard about this and does the vaccine -- do we know if the vaccine covers it? is that a dumb question? i'm just wondering how these headlines fit together. >> no, you have asked actually the two most important questions so the story on the uk is this.

they have noticed initially in the southeast of london in kent, replacing a -- what they call a lineage, what they call a filo genetic cluster and it has mutations that docks with our host tissues and it's appearing in increasing frequency throughout the uk gives people cause for concern that it's outcompeting all of the other lineages. it's not a true strain as such and for that reason based on modeling projections they think it's a more transmissible version of the virus. more transmissible, it's not based on any experimental evidence as far as i know about transmissibility but all based on a projection and modeling. but it was enough of a -- enough of a concern that it gave the

british prime minister pause to say, look, we're worried enough about it. we want to get ahead of it. we don't want to find out about this after the fact. how effective the travel bans will be it's really hard to say, because we have learned how quickly this virus travels across the world. and it took us weeks, for instance, to find out that the covid-19 virus, the sars coronavirus 2 had entered new york city from europe. so we'll see how this pans out. we'll get some experimental evidence hopefully pretty soon. i do not think it will affect the vaccine uptake. and the effectiveness. i think it looks as though it's a small enough change that the current vaccines will still work. >> dean of the national school of tropical medicine at baylor college of medicine, dr. peter hotez, thank you so much. coming up, president trump finally breaks his silence on the russian cyberattack against the u.s., but instead of

downplaying the attack, he questions whether russia was involved. we'll dig into that next on "morning joe." let's see what you've got, oculus... dreya! hey! how are you so good at this? relax. get into it!

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the president has a mind spot when it comes to russia and so you can expect that that's the response that he would have. what it underscores is russia acts with impunity with regards to the cyberattacks because they don't think we have the capacity to respond in like measure and they know our defense is inadequate. >> that was mitt romney reacting to the cyberattack against the federal government. and romney was referring to trump's series of tweets on saturday, the cyberattack it's far greater in the fake news media than innu actuality. i have been believed and

everything is under control. this is another example of him undercutting the top officials when it comes to russia. here is secretary of state mike pompeo clearly confirming that the vast hack of u.s. federal agencies is linked to moscow. >> there was a significant effort to use a piece of -- a third party software to essentially embed code inside of u.s. government systems and it now appears systems of private companies and companies and governments across the world as well. this was a significant effort and we can say that was the russians that engaged in this activity. >> trump falsely tied voting machines to the cyberattack, to which the former director of cyber security and infrastructure security agency, chris krebs, tweeted in response, the proof is in the paper.

you can audit or recount again like they did in georgia and michigan and wisconsin and arizona. you can't hack paper. joining us now president of the council on foreign relations, richard haass. former u.s. ambassador to sweden under president obama, mark brzezinski who served as director of russian and eurasian affairs and ed luce and jonathan lemire are still with us as well. i appreciate mitt romney stepping out, so certainly not criticizing here, but mind spot is at this point an understatement. a blind spot to russia is not what the president has. there is some connection with russia that constantly has him defending vladimir putin, defending him openly. >> yeah, we have talked about helsinki when jonathan asked the question and he said he trusted

the ex-kgb asset more than the u.s. intel agencies. you can talk about the bounties put on the soldiers' heads and he called that fake news. now, we're being told that this massive breach by the russians was also fake news when in fact you heard what pompeo said, you also had thomas bossert, donald trump's former homeland adviser talking about this being sweeping and it will take years to know for years which roles they occupy, and now it can be far more than spying. it is widespread. republicans and democrats across washington know that and the only person once again defending the russians is donald trump. so richard haass, talk about the scope of this hack and what's the -- what's the possibility for damage and what should america's response be? >> look, it's clearly not --

widespread doesn't capture it though. so many critical u.s. agencies and companies have been compromised here, so this is a serious penetration. what i think really matters is whether the penetration was for purposes of espionage as opposed to disresuupting operations and don't know that as yet. if it's mainly espionage than the larger policy is to increase our production. the idea we're so vulnerable is outrageous. if, however, the russians have gone beyond espionage, if it's actually to disrupt the ability of the agencies to act that's an offensive action and that requires us not only to protect better but to go on the offensive to do things that would hurt russia. this could be symmetrical going against their digital targets or

could be asymmetrical using other tools. >> so ambassador mark brzezinski, what do we do next? with this information in front of us, with information over the past four years, donald trump's lack of policy on russia. you could go back to the obama administration and they're pushing for a reset that ended disastrously. you can look back on the bush administration underestimating time and again vladimir putin's designs on countries around him. talking about looking into his eyes and seeing his soul. we have had three presidents who have misjudged the intentions of vladimir putin in the 20th century. he's had a free ride for one-fifth of this century. what does joe biden need to do? what does a biden policy need to do to turn a page on 20 years of failure? >> well, the starting point for the biden administration is that

the trump administration has left no policy on russia. there's been a wink-wink, nod nod relationship between trump and putin and historians will share it with us. it's a strange dissonance between our president at the tippy top of the u.s. government and the bureaucracy which is geared towards deploying sanctions and enforcing sanctions for what it did in crimea and the poisons in london, so forth. the food news is there's a new sheriff in town who does not need to be introduced to the russian leadership and who has decades of experience in understanding russia and that is president-elect joe biden and his team. i mean, it's important to remember that joe biden was -- started to be the ranking member of the senate foreign relations committee in 1997.

his punitive secretary of state tony blinken was on the national security staff covering europe when putin ascended from a local position in st. peters berg to being prime minister of russia in 2007. these folks have studied each other, they know each other and you don't have a lost in the woods approach that can be manipulated at the tippy top. going forward, we have heard from the president-elect that there's going to be a careful assessment, not only of russia's recent actions but of the long-term actions during the trump administration as well, joe, you mentioned the bounties on the u.s. soldiers in afghanistan. perhaps deployed by the russians, that is appalling. and a quote, a cost imposition strategy will be put in place by the new administration that will be fact-based and rigorous and disciplined. that's good news. >> and that will take a lot of

work to re-establish strategic partnerships and realign itself with the relationship with russia, ed luce. how should they u.s. team up with the allies to maybe contain russia? >> well, i think the first step would be to reinforce nato which is relatively easily done. you know, trump clearly undermined nato and was disrespectful of key nato allies and biden without doing very much at all can reassure those same allies that the america that they want is back. there will be difficulties over things like the north stream pipeline the pipeline built to germany which trump was fears you -- remains furious about, which the biden administration is probably not going to look very kindly on because it gives putin leverage.

but the question i wanted to ask to richard was over and above sanctions, what is it that an incoming biden administration can do to really deter putin -- well, make him pay for this and deter him from doing it again? >> look, easier said than done and again i do think, ed, there needs to be a distinction between if the russians are carrying out espionage or something more operational. but deterrence is going to be tough here. we can try to use digital space to embarrass putin. i don't mind saying things -- what does he care most about? his rule. are there things we can point out about his private wealth that are embarrassing to him or further help the russian opposition who tried to weaken putin's hold on power, strengthening nato as you said seems to be central.

but this is difficult. at the end of the day, we are far more dependent as an economy, and as a society, on the digital and internet domain than is russia. our economy is incomparably larger and complex and russia's is largely oil and gas. so a narrow set of responses probably won't get us to deter putin. we have to look at our entire relationship and ask ourselves what are the pressure points we have in the middle east, in ukraine, elsewhere in europe and most of all at home against putin to their twice about this sort of behavior. >> mark, the conversation so far rightly is on russia and putin and what the united states should be, but russia's not the only country out there that doesn't like us and certainly a hack like this shows the vulnerabilities shows the cyber security system and there are other nations that can pull off

something similar. i want to get you to weigh in on that and more than that, what should the u.s. do to reinforce their -- our own system so something like this doesn't happen again, perhaps a country not looking for espionage but looking to take a bad action. >> sure. well, i'm sure the new team under biden will be thinking what are the vulnerables of aggressors like russia and it's important to remember that putin is not invulnerable. as the economy struggles so does putin's popularity. russia will have parliamentary elections in november and novellny is going to be running and he's very popular. the new team doesn't want a two

front confrontation. you asked what could be the other source of cyberattacks and it could be china. both of those countries are not totally unhappy when we as a country tied up in knots and cyber disruption is a great way of doing that. so it's a little bit of a balancing act on how to handle these differentiated challenges that are seeking to upset our system. >> all right. richard haass and mark brzezinski, thank you and ed luce, thank you as well. chief white house correspondent for "the new york times" peter baker will join us with his latest reporting. and nine months after passing the first coronavirus stimulus bill, congress strikes a deal an round two. "morning joe" is coming right back. oe" is coming right back

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now as a president he was mostly bad so before he's tranquilized and moved like a dinosaur from jurassic park, i want to recognize his greatest moments in office. ♪ ♪ closing time open all the doors and let you all in to the world ♪ ♪ closing time turn all of the lights on over ♪ >> people are flushing toilets 10 times, 15 times. ♪ closing time, one last call for alcohol ♪ >> oh, look at my african-american over there. look at him. ♪ ♪ i know i want to take me home ♪ ♪ closing time >> oh, i don't know what i said, oh, i don't remember. >> welcome back to "morning

joe." it's monday, december 21st. the a.p.'s jonathan lemire is with us and we have chief white house correspondent for "the new york times" peter baker. white house correspondent for pbs news hour, yamiche alcindor and donny deutsch is with us as well. >> so peter baker, quite a weekend, to say the least. i got to believe it's fairly unprecedented, iot -- well, just unprecedented that there's conversation about a coup, about martial law, about the loser seizing voting machines, forcing recounts. the united states army having to put out a statement saying no, we don't do that. we don't get involved in elections. we don't get involved in martial law. what can you tell us, based on your reporting about the deeply disturbing events that unfolded at the white house this weekend? >> well, you're right, joe, it's an extraordinary moment.

and one that i think is too easy to kind of pass over because we know it's not going to succeed. we know that the electoral college has already voted and that congress won't change that, can't change that, that there's going to be an inauguration on january 20th with joe biden and yet, even this talk in the oval office that it may be loose, you know, railing against his fates is still extraordinary. i would never see anything like it. a president of the united states talking about finding incredible ways to turn -- to overturn an election he lost. nothing we have seen comes close to that. and, you know, what you have got now i think is a situation where the guardrails are increasingly missing. you know, the people around him that he trusts, he considers in his circle has shrunk. the people who are willing to indulge him have, you know, grown to a smaller and smaller group. you're left with people like mark meadows the white house chief of staff and pat

cipollone, one of the few left to say, wait a second, let's settle down here. he's bringing in people like michael flynn who is publicly calling for martial law. i mean, we should stop and say that phrase again. calling for martial law. because he lost an election. and, you know, it's just -- again, it may not actually end up meaning anything because i don't think the military would go along with something else, but the very fact that we're having this conversation just reminds us how unorthodox and how unconventional this presidency has been over the last couple of years. >> it's fascist. i think if you look at the definition of fascism and you look at how political scientists have defined fascism throughout the years and you match it up with donald trump, i think that's actually probably a term that fits him best. maybe it's american fascism, i don't know. it's just like our guest who

said that we didn't have an america because we didn't have coups. we didn't have enough words to describe different types of coups. this is a strain of fascism. it's a guy who wants to be a tyrant. who wants to be a dictator and as i have been saying for four years and, you know, people i guess have been insulted. i mean, maybe they're -- you know, just getting their fainting couches up because they know it's the truth, donald trump would get away with whatever he could get away with. the fact he hasn't gotten away with jailing journalists, executing journalists, executing political opponents, doing what vladimir putin has done. the only thing that's stopped him from doing is the united states constitution. there have been federal judges, checks and balances. he couldn't get away with it. so here we are, and we actually see it keeps getting worse. >> yeah.

>> and republicans and trumpist media types will talk about, oh, donald trump derangement syndrome, but again as jonah goldberg said six months ago if he had written about what donald trump was going to do six months later, he would have been attacked for trump derangement syndrome and yet here we are, six months later. and the same people that would have attacked jonah for saying that or me for saying that or anybody for saying that in july of 2020, they're now quietly sitting by letting him do that and not having that barry goldwater moment where they're walking down to the white house and saying, mr. president, the gig's up. you have called for the arrest of your political opponents. you have called for the seizing of election machines. you have called for declaring martial law. you're literally -- you're literally talking about martial law in the white house, in the

oval office right now and having to be talked out of it by sycophants around you, so bad that even sycophants are saying this to the president. why have the 25th amendment if people aren't going to use it in this situation? to temporarily -- not permanently, but temporarily remove this president from his position until it is determined that he can safely assume that position. it's -- what's going to get worse than that? what president will behave worse than this? >> you have the same people who are overlooking this going crazy over jen o'malley dillon dropping an f-bomb in "cosmo"

magazine. >> did we get any marco rubio emails? >> no, he has no problem with the president trying to declare martial law to overturn an election -- is he afraid of women or are they all afraid of women? i wonder because neera tanden was tweeting stuff in the past and they're just itering about that. they can't believe she has a tweet that's untoward, but yet this? >> so let's get this straight. so marco rubio is offended by an f-bomb in "glamour" magazine, but marco rubio is totally fine with the president asking about martial law and the seizing of election voting machines. >> correct. >> i think that pretty much says everything you need to know. >> so let's get into this

reporting on president trump. a special counsel and using martial law to help overturn an election. nbc news has confirmed that during a meeting inside the oval office on friday, president trump discussed naming sidney powell as special counsel to investigate the 2020 election. the story reported by "the new york times" which says that most of the advisers opposed the plan. "the times" reports that trump attorney rudy giuliani participated in the friday meeting by phone and this he also pushed back on the special counsel idea. but that's perhaps because he's been focused more on an effort to seize the voting machines and sidney powell reportedly pitched an executive order to examine the voting machines. a source tells nbc news that white house counsel, pat cipollone, and white house chief of staff mark meadows cut the

meeting off before it was going in an alarming direction. thank you so much. last week on the far right network newsmax, former national security adviser michael flynn who also participated in the meeting talked about seizing the voting machines and deploying the military to rerun the election in the swing states. the "washington post," "the new york times" reported that president trump asked about it during the meeting and that it was shot down by meadows and cipollone. the president denied that martial law was talked about, reporting that it was fake news. the army, however, felt the need to issue a statement saying quote, there's no role for the u.s. military in determining the outcome of an american election. so the military felt the need to just to sort of say that, joe. to make sure we're all clear on

what does and doesn't happen. >> so, i mean, you take what donald trump -- again, lying to his supporters, thinking they're so stupid that they actually will believe him. i know they are not that stupid to believe him, that he's talking about the russia hack as being fake news. he is talking about this martial law discussion as being fake news. when in fact, so often the leaks come from inside the white house. people who are in on the meetings telling reporters exactly how badly things have gotten and here you have donald trump talking about martial law along with michael flynn who's not only saying it in the white house but saying it on news networks and it is so concerning the united states army feels like it has to issue what can only be described as an extraordinary statement. >> that's right. and what you see there is in

some ways the echoes of the military coming out after president trump sauntered across the white house lawn using military forces or a law enforcement authorities to move protesters off of the way so he could have that photo-op in front of the church holding the bible, gassing some people with a chemical, having been there myself and you had the military saying, we shouldn't have been a part of that. and here is the military saying we don't want to be on the same page as donald trump. if we zoom out, interesting things are happening. one, we have this covid-19 vaccine going out with both leaders of the aisle trying to sell it as it's safe and effective and you have the covid-19 relief deal with congress coming one a deal and

you have the crisis this economic health crisis, racial crisis, all of these things call out for leadership and here is president trump instead focused on his own political future and focused on trying to downplay the threat that russia plays in this election and also to our country with the idea that they were targeting all of these critical defense agencies including you look at them, it's the department of homeland security, it's the state department, it's treasury. all the different things that are so important to our society but here's president trump really ignoring all of that just because he's so focused on this doomed election, an election he lost weeks ago. in some ways it just shows that the president had never really i think been able to get past the fact that he's not the political sucks he thinks of himself. now that he's lost he can't come to grips with it and the country is without a leader in some key issues. >> donny, let's strip this down.

we have hundreds of thousands of people dying from covid. the death rate just exploding over the past week. the united states government is under attack from the russians. and their own commander in chief is discussing martial law over the weekend. desperately trying to figure out how to seize power after losing a presidential election overwhelmingly. >> you know, fox poll had 42% of americans saying that donald trump is the worst president ever. and 8% saying he's below average, but that left 50% saying he's either average or above average as a president against this back drop. you have to look at that and go, what -- what's going on here? what is behind that? we understand what's behind the cowardice of the republican leaders not come ought. they have elections to deal

with, they have a base to deal with, they're cowards i can deal with that, but what's in the core, the soul, of americans that can look at this behavior and go, check, that works -- one out of two. that means you're on a train today, you look around and people are going, half are thumbs up. it's so deep seated this fear of what's happening in this country, that by 2040 that whites are going to be minority in this country and i think that's such a frightening, terrifying thing that i think they're willing to overlook almost everything. even the pillars of our democracy. i don't want to focus on trump anymore. i want to focus on that other 50% who still think, wow, good deal here. and that's where we've got to put our focus going forward. because we cannot heal until somehow we have our arms around that. donald trump will go. donald trump will be gone. he will be a side show. but that 50% that's -- that goes, you know, pretty good guy

over there. that's what we have got to focus on. >> peter baker, people that i have talked to close to the president have been sort of amazed and dismayed that in recent weeks he seems to be more and more embracing the conspiracy theories around the election. that early on, the fight was sort of -- as they put it, sort of performative. he lost, he was angry, and it was more to show the supporters that he was fighting and grease the skids for the 2024 run and now he believes this. that he believes that the election was stolen from him, the vast conspiracy theories including the voting machines so on. now he's looking into the special counsel. my question is what are you hearing about what the next steps could be? these were alarming things that talked about on friday but he hasn't put that into place, at least just yet. we have the possibility of pardons coming down the road and we know he's headed to georgia to campaign for the senate

runoff. what could be next from this president and let's remember he has 30 long days to go while still in office. >> he does have 30 long days, a lot can happen in the 30 days. a lot are focused on the pentagon, is there anything that could be dangerous? he replaced the defense secretary abruptly after the election and attorney general barr leaves this week. what will he -- will the president try to do anything with the justice department in the short time he has left that we don't know about? i think you're right. pardons seem to be on the table. it's not set in stone yet but we're looking at a number of pardons for people around him that he believes were improperly pursued by the russia investigators. you know, he may be in fact looking at pardons as we reported in the past for his own family. for rudy giuliani. maybe even for himself. and you're right, i don't know.

one thing we have discovered with the president, he still manages to surprise us. it may be that we shouldn't be surprised anymore, but he does seem to -- you know, repeatedly to go beyond what we think he'll go. a lot of people thought he was indulging his wounded feelings with the post election challenge stuff. you know, creating a narrative that he didn't actually lose, he just simply was, you know, ripped off in some way. he tells these things that are untrue so many times and beginning to sort of create this reality web around him. anthony scaramucci once called it a reality distortion field that he creates and the question is does he create inside his own head as well? remember, this is a presidency borne in conspiracy theories, in the birther lie about president obama you know not being from this country originally.

what's remarkable is how consistent the surprises and the shocks have been. because in fact, you know, while a lot of people as joe said, you're going too far, he'll never do that, you guys raised the question if there's a peaceful transfer of power. of course here he is doing what people feared he'd do. and i think you're right, the next 30 days, we don't know what will happen. >> so donny, donny, i want to go back to you for one second and the 50% all right with president trump are all right about a president seizing voting machine. is all right with people talking about martial law in the white house. is okay when a person that he pardoned is going on cable television talking about martial law. he calls it fake news but it's so serious that the united states army has puts out an unprecedented statement, knowing that they won't storm in the streets to help a president

who's lost re-election somehow maintain power. you have this president who was pushing his attorney general in public not privately in public to arrest his political opponent. joe biden, the last two weeks of the campaign. a president who wouldn't allow americans to be -- to be relaxed and to understand that there was going to be a peaceful transfer of power. i could go on and on and on. there are a million examples over the past four years of things that no other president would be able to get away with. i can also talk about just again personally -- i just keep bringing it up it's so remarkable it shows how much of a cult this support for a lot of people supporting donald trump. i have friends and family members who love me, who heard donald trump say 12 times that i should be arrested and sent to prison and, you know, if it's murder, executed. even after the husband of a

woman who's part of this donald trump conspiracy theory who's been dead for 19 years begged him to stop talking about it, begged him, and said, please, my wife has been dead for 19 years, let me and her parents move on in peace. begged him, he ignored them. he ignored all pleas, it's happened a million times over and yet, my family members and relatives still supported donald trump. you look at -- that doesn't really -- to tell you the truth that doesn't concern me as much as the fact that, donny, this guy is antidemocratic. he's -- he is some form of a fascist leader and still 50% of americans are supporting him and now we are starting to see -- we, my family, my immediate family, are seeing relatives and

seeing friends of friends that we have grown up with for half a century actually showing pictures of people carrying guns saying we must fight back. like this is sick. it is a cult. it is dangerous and as you said, the problem is not donald trump. that can get -- that can be taken care of in 15 minutes by a couple of republicans with a little bit of courage. the problem are the 50% who are still following this guy who wants to destroy american democracy. who wants to destroy our voting process and they're going along for the ride. it is without a doubt the most deeply disturbing political development of my lifetime.

there's not a close second. >> you know, joe, first -- not a little, but a lot of sunshine. you have said this many times on this show and hats off our the authors of the madisonian democracy and even when 50% of the country still is somehow behind him our system holds. that is something we can all take a deep breath and say, yay, the good guys do win in the end. joe, when people want to throw out what we have, which is democracy, it means they're basically unhappy and they're willing to kind of stand by and watch anything go and i'm just going to say again this is what we have to be honest about. i think it's race. i do. there's no other -- it's not his policies about china. and it's not his policies -- it's certainly not his covid response and it's certainly not his nonresponse of giving out relief to people, this is

something that has to be dealt with and it's not an easy solution is that what is it that's -- what nerve did he hit by saying muslim ban, by saying about the mexicans. but that's where no president, no politician has ever gone before in any substantial office at least not in the last 40 or 50 years. what is it going on in the country now, what is it that's so terrifying for white people and that's what this is about, that people of color are threatening them so deeply they're willing to dismiss the democratic tenets. there's nothing else there. we could see -- we could put the ten smartest scholars in the room. it's no other explanation and that's what we have to teal with. >> yamiche, you have been covering the president for the better part of five years. what's your take on donny's

theory? >> i think donny's theory is a solid one, because i have been talking to so many trump supporters over the last few years and i have to tell you, even when i talk to them about policies, about foreign policy, or about china, a lot of times the trump supporters that i talk to they turn the issue back to race. now, maybe it's because they're being interviewed by someone who's african-american, but i can remember one of my first hints it would be a running theme of the trump administration, trying to explain about health care and talking about why he supported the health care plan and he kept on saying people think i'm racist, people think i'm racist, sir, even though i'm talking to you about health care, why do people think you're racist? he said, look at you, you're african-american and you're at "the new york times." i'm thinking about another person who was talk nothing about the fact that he was really concerned about the kind

of the way the focus that the nation was going. i asked him again, well, what you really concerned about? he started to talk about antifa and african-americans taking over his town. mexicans coming for him. he was living in a gated community in florida worried about african-americans and latinos coming into his neighborhood when that neighborhood was 98% white. there's a real elephant in the room, not all of the trump supporters but a large majority of them do bring up the issue of race and bring up their fears of the unknown of african-americans, of latinos, of this kind of browning of america. that is just something that has been -- that needs to be covered, that needs to be said out loud and i keep thinking of the man in wisconsin who said how could you possibly have a job and make more money than me? well, sir, i went to college, my parents went to college and that's how i earned the job. he wanted to talking about the

fact that he was worried about a black girl like me was a threat to his future. >> wow. let's let that sit for a second there. that's incredible. and after eight long months, congress has reached a coronavirus relief bill. a vote is expected later on today, which will include $600 checks and payments of up to $300 a week for federal unemployment benefits which could begin as early as next week and includes $25 billion in rental assistance and an extension on an eviction moratorium which was set to run out in days. the bipartisan bill does not include a republican priority of liability protections, nor one of the democrats' priorities of state and local funding. both sides are laying the groundwork for the next stage of negotiations expected next month. >> the number one reason we

didn't get the bill we needed was the republican senate. and donald trump just obfuscated the whole issue. a democratic president, joe biden, will be able to focus the american people's attention on a senate, the republican members of the senate, who are obstructing getting in the way of what they need. >> why did it take all this final? we know why. we have heard democrats say openly they were not willing to deal all summer and fall, but are willing now -- willing now because they have a president-elect of their own political party. >> see, i actually think this is good because what they're doing is they're snarling and they're going around in circles and they're like digging up the dirt and they're playing to their base, but peter baker, this is how it used to be done in the old days when we were on capitol hill. around the same time, you actually had democrats and

republicans hammering out a compromise, nobody's happy in the end. but they get something done that america badly needs. >> well, that's right. what's discouraging it did take so long. right? this package that we're going to pass it seems like in the coming days is something that could have been done months ago. they didn't break a whole lot of new ground with this package. they simply dispensed with the two things that were most controversial and the priorities of the two sides. they wanted to help the state and local governments and republicans and the democrats didn't get the liability shields, facing what the exposure might be because of the virus. instead, they put a bunch of money in the pot to help people. why wasn't this done months ago? mitch mcconnell say it was the democrats, democrats say it was the republicans and it was fascinating we didn't have a president out there leading the

way. you would have thought he'd want to get this done before the election. spending money is a good thing for a president trying to get votes, right? it helps people and it would have got the economy going a little bit better before everyone went to the polls and president trump took the back seat. he hasn't had a conversation with the speaker of the house of representatives in more than a year and president-elect biden will come in and try to be more hands on and that may change the dynamics or harden the republicans who doesn't have a president of their own party willing to go along with the kind of spending we see. this is not end of the story but you're right, it is a christmas gift in effect to a lot of americans who are hurting and looking for help from their government. >> peter baker, thank you for your reporting. still ahold on "morning joe" as the first shipments of moderna's coronavirus vaccine make their way across the country this morning, a look at the rollout campaign at one of

the nation's largest pharmacies. plus, governor phil murphy will join the conversation with new jersey's plan on vaccine distribution. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. back. ♪ we made usaa insurance for veterans like martin. when a hailstorm hit, he needed his insurance to get it done right, right away. usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. usaa usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. - [announcer] forget about vacuuming for up to a month. shark iq robot deep cleans and empties itself into a base you empty as little as once a month. and unlike standard robots that bounce around it cleans row by row. if it's not a shark, it's just a robot. until i found out what itust? it actually was.d me. dust mite droppings? ewww. dead skin cells? gross! so now, i grab my swiffer heavy duty sweeper and dusters. dusters extends to 6 feet to reach way up high... to grab, trap and lock away gross dust. nice!

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all right. the army general leading the effort of wide-scale vaccine distribution is apologizing for a miscommunication with states over the amount of doses delivered in the initial stages of distribution. in a telephone call with reporters on saturday, general perna said he incorrectly cited the number of doses that would be ready. he said, quote, i failed. i'm adjusting, i am fixing and we will move forward from there. i want to take personal responsibility for the miscommunication. i know that's not done much these days, but i am responsible. this is a herculean effort and

we are not perfect. he continued, i'm the one who approved forecast sheets and i'm the one who approved allocations. there's no problem with the process, there's no problem with the pfizer vaccine. there is no problem with the moderna vaccine. let's take a closer look at how the vaccine rollout is playing out in one state. new jersey is planning to open up six covid-19 vaccine mega sites with an aim to vaccine 70% of the adult residents within six months and the state is setting up a network of more than 200 satellite vaccination sites including hospitals, health and urgent care centers and chain pharmacies. joining us now is new jersey's democratic governor phil murphy. thank you very much for joining us. quite a herculean effort. in terms of what you have set up so far, how many people do you

think you can vaccinate a month? >> good to be with you and general perna is a good man, so i know there was a miscommunication but we march onward. this is an incredibly complex challenge and i'm sure there will be bumps in the road. listen, we'll get i think 220 212,000 doses this week before moderna and pfizer and it will go up in each of the ensuing weeks. we'll from the 1-a health care workers out from there to other vulnerable communities and essential workers and then to the general public i hope by april or may. i'm not sure i can give you an exact number but my guess is we're looking at a half a million or more in the next month of folks who are going to get it and the numbers, god willing, will go up from there. >> what's the message you want new jersey residents to hear if they are worried they have to pay for -- they're worried they

can't afford it, worried about the vaccine in some way. is there a uniform messaging from the government from new jersey in terms of what people need to understand, in terms of getting this vaccine to inspire them to do it can? >> you betcha. and it's a good question because you have some anti-vaccine folks to begin with. you have had some noise around the development of this vaccine. i will tell you, we speak to the medical experts, morning, noon and night, this thing is for real. it is safe. it works. and we need folks to get it and they should not worry for one second about the pocketbook issue. this will be paid for. and god willing, with a big dose of that coming from the federal government. we have to overcome the suspicion around this. our objective is 70% of our population, adult population, that's 4.5 million people in new jersey. and we've got to get there, we have to get there sooner rather than later.

>> with governor, it's jonathan lemire, good morning. great to see you again. >> hi, john. >> governor cuomo has called for a temporary travel suspension to the united kingdom. the there's an outbreak there in britain. now new jersey of course is home to newark international airport, one of the busiest international airports in the nation. do you share governor cuomo's concern? do you believe some temporary travel bans should be put in place? >> we haven't put it in place yet. i do share the concern, but i have got a broader message and that is don't travel, period. you know, we were updating a list of american states each week. we got up to 46 of the 50 states that were beyond any acceptable limits and we finally said a few weeks ago, listen, don't travel anywhere. that would include right now the uk. i share his concern. i think the closer we are to home for the holidays, the smaller the celebration as in

immediate family or the bubble in which you're living the faster we'll come out of this. >> let me follow-up on that, the idea of travel. correct me if i'm wrong, but i believe new jersey saw a surge in infections after the thanksgiving holiday because in part family gathering for family celebrations. and people traveling in and out of state. how big is your concern about the christmas holiday coming up and what are you telling the residents what to do and could there be restrictions you put into place to try to limit that travel? >> listen, it's hard to stop somebody in the united states of america from crossing from one state to another, but we clearly have a bunch of factors coming together right now which add up to a lot of concern. cold weather, holidays, fatigue, private setting transmission, lack of a national strategy. those five factors have led to -- in addition to the expected second wave have led to a surge.

there's no question about it. and i think it gets worse before it gets better. and the holidays to your very good question are a big contributing factor. we want folks to stay home and stay small. that's my message. >> all right. new jersey governor phil murphy, thank you very much for being on this morning and again, yes, no traveling. don't gather. not this year. two of the largest pharmacy chains kick off a nationwide campaign to vaccinate nursing home residents against covid-19 today. walgreens, boots alliance and cvs health are leading in partnership with the federal government. the aim is to vaccinate some 7 million people in more than 70,000 long-term care facilities. joining us from cvs health, chris cox. it looks like the pharmacy will

have the capacity to administer 20 to 25 million shots a month. exactly how are you executing this? >> sure, thanks, mika. it's great to be here. so you know, right now we are focused on long-term care as you mentioned. over 30,000 long-term facilities chose cvs to vaccinate their residents and their staff and we expect over the next couple of months we'll be going to each of the facilities three times, the first time to give the dose and then the booster and then to offer the booster to those admitted between the first and the second visit. that's our focus right now. then to your point, once we're able to offer the vaccine in our 10,000 retail pharmacy locations across the country, we do expect to be able to give 20 to 25 million shots per month. you know, whether that be to other prioritized populations for the general population. >> chris, i want to ask you in

just a second about messaging to cvs customers about the safety of the vaccine and why they should take it and if they can afford it in just a second, but first, i want to bring in branding expert, messaging expert, donny deutsch. i have noticed a lot of lawmakers publicly getting the vaccine. obviously, the president and members of the white house are getting the vaccine. are the right people influencers sending the message that this vaccine is safe? because i do think that the political part of this is frustrating for people who feel like people in positions of power -- of power who have, you know, laughed at the concept of masks and held superspreader events are getting the vaccine. who should be putting forward a message about the safety and efficacy and the importance of taking the vaccine? >> well, something called the ad

council which is funded where you take all money donated to various networks and put it behind charities and hopefully the ad council is working on an -- this should be a $500 million campaign out there. and not necessarily the president's, but influencers, musicians, business leaders, everybody. it should be a nike, just get it, you know, just a simple premise of michael jordan. be like mike, you know? so that's what moves people. seeing people that they look up to, that they trust, that they can relate to and they are aspirational to them getting it. line up a hundred of the best influencers, but right now the networks, the facebooks of the world should be donating hundreds of millions of time and air space to get this out. because it's not going to happen through the news. i don't know why that's not happening already, frankly. >> chris cox, what are you telling customers and any word in your circles about a way to

message the american people that this vaccine could really change the course of this country in a positive direction? >> sure. well, listen, nearly 5 million people walk into the cvs pharmacy every day. and those people our pharmacists, our pharmacy teams to take care of the families. donny is right, i think it's important that influencers play a big role here. but we have also surveyed 5,000 patients and asked them who is it that you're going to trust to make the recommendation on whether or not to get this vaccine. and they all talk about, you know, their individual primary care physician and then also the fact that pharmacists and nurses are two of the most trusted, you know, professions in this country. and we have got, you know, locations all across you know the united states. with existing relationships with those patients, so we do expect to play a big role in helping to educate them on the efficacy, the safety and you mentioned

earlier, you know, whether or not they can afford it. i think the key message out to every american is this will be free to each and every one of you. no one will pay anything for the covid vaccine. >> that is the key message right there. senior vice president of pharmacy at cvs health, chris cox. thank you for coming on this morning. and coming up, if president trump would forcefully clear peaceful protesters for a photo-op, what would he be willing to do to cling to power in the white house? new reporting says he's considering some very troubling ideas. plus, an update on those critical senate races in georgia where turnout is already smashing records. as we go to break, make sure you get your christmas playlist from filter, the best of field classics and some new ones as well. you play hear a track or two from the council of funk, that's exclusively on filter. we'll be right back. y on filter. we'll be right back.

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in georgia, more than 1.3 million voters turned out in the first week of early voting in the critical georgia senate runoff races. according to state election data, that's 17.5% of registered voters. republican senators david perdue and kelly loeffler are looking to keep their seats while democrat hopefuls jon ossoff and the reverend raphael warnock are trying to unseat the two incumbents and reposition georgia as a blue state. perhaps for years to come. the two races will determine control of the u.s. senate. president trump says he will head back to georgia to rally on the eve of election night. this comes despite tensions between the state's gop leaders after they refused to overturn

the presidential election results. it's kind of awkward, yamiche, well what the president is trying to do hurts the people running in his party. so looking ahead to the president's rally, i would be cringing if i were a republican especially in georgia at the president coming to town and again extemporaneously performing on stage. >> that's right. there's two things at stake, the fact that he might not depress turnout by saying that the election is rigged and that there wasn't an election in 2020 that you could trust, but the idea he's scaring some people and inciting violence. remember gabriel sterling who urged the president to try to turn down the temperature of his rhetoric, saying that someone is going to get killed. the president has not heeded that warning so when the president goes to rally you'll look at two things. one, is he going to have a sort

of rally that's going to get people even more angry, go going to be more death threats to more election officials and to americans who are doing their jobs and second is he going to feed this conspiracy theory machine, all points -- everything machine, which brad raffensperger told me particularly he is worried that's going to turn down people wanting to vote and depress the idea that republicans believe in the election system. so i think those are the two dueling things that are going to happen once president trump comes down there. people could be unsafe and there could be more questioning of american democracy. >> trump's return to georgia. it went so well the last time. let's remember the president's previous campaign rally there. he attacked the republican governor, he attacked the republican secretary of state from georgia. he was supposed to go back there this past weekend. advisors booked a rally and the president said, no, he was too angry at the republican officials in the state. he has now been convinced to go.

but there are a lot of members of his own party who are holding their breath. let me ask you, is this the best thing that could happen to the democrats hoping to win in that state if president trump goes down there, or do you think he still can fire up that base? we know his approval rating in the republican party remains high. how do you see his appearance breaking one way or the other? >> i actually think it's in the democrats' interest. this is probably going to be trump's last rally as president. he will do some on his own. but as far as something attached to any type of official duty, he will probably spend 30 seconds on the two senate candidates and the rest of it taking it to a new level of insanity. voters see that up there, do we really want more of this, because it's not going to be talking about the senate, not going to be talking about the direction of the country and not talking about kelly loeffler and david perdue.

it's going to be talking about coups and things like that. if i am a democrat strategist, come on down, don. we welcome you with open arms. one more story before a quick break. a golfer, justin thomas. >> and his father mike won the pnc championship yesterday. it was tiger woods and his 11-year-old son carley who stole the show. both dressed in tiger's customary sunday red. team woods finished five strokes behind the seventh in the tournament after shooting their second straight 62 in yesterday's final round. charlie proved that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. a point highlighted early in saturday's round when he carted an eagle after his approach shot on the par 5 third homelanded within feet of the cup. playing together in his son's first public debut tiger said, quote tvgs incredibly special for us to have the opportunity to spend the quality time we had

adding, quote, its memories we'll have for our entire lives. nice. and up next, what do donald trump and dr. fauci have in common? they are both inspiring a new generation of medical workers but for very different reasons. we will explain that. as we go to break, a reminder about know your values, exciting partnership with forbes. we are creating a 50 othver 50 list. nominate a woman who has paid it forward for other women. go to knowyourvalue.com for more information about how to sign up or nominate someone. we'll be right back. e someone. we'll be right back. it's been a tough year.

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bring your own device, or trade in for extra savings. stop in or book an appointment to shop safely with peace of mind at your local xfinity store. "snl" alum kristen wiig hosted this past saturday's final "snl" episode of the year, and notably absent from the show was actor and comedian jim

carrey, who was tapped to play president-elect joe biden since the fall. before the show he tweeted, quote, though my term was only meant to be six weeks, i was thrilled to be your -- to be elected as your "snl" president. comedy's highest call of duty. i would love to go forward knowing biden was the victor because i nailed that blank, but i am just one in a long line of proud fighting "snl" bidens. cast member alex moffett assumed the role for the episode. it's unclear who will fill the spos permanently as the season continues. "saturday night live" returns with new episodes next year on january 23rd. that will be fun. still ahead, congress reaches a deal on covid relief, but how soon before it's ready for a vote? and what was left out of the bill to get to a consensus? "morning joe" is coming right back.

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i hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. i think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press. let's see if that happens. >> donald trump's presidency is coming to an end in much of the same way it began. undercutting his top officials when it comes to russia. this time he is downplaying the severity of the massive cyber hack on government agencies and questioning the consensus from his own administration that russia was the culprit. my god. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is monday, december 21st. with us we have white house reporter for t"the associated press" jonathan lemire filling in for kasand at the financial loose is with us early this morning. >> the kids are talking about

lamire's performance on way too early, much like elvis's first performance on ed sullivan. he was shaking his hips, too. >> yeah. >> sullivan was banned from the waist down. that's why we had to do the same thing with jonathan lemire. you did a great job. also, perfect person to have here this morning because, of course, one of the most infamous moments of the trump presidency was in helsinki when you asked whether he was going to believe his intel community or whether he was going to believe vladimir putin. let's just say he did not choose wisely. we had perhaps the finale of that this weekend. talk about pompeo versus trump now and if there is anybody in the united states government or on capitol hill that degrees with donald trump that this wasn't a russian hack.

>> first of all, just trying to keep the seat warm for kasie here. it is probably for the best that i am shot only from the belt up. that should be standard for all msnbc programming. you're right, joe. the trump administration is sort of ending as it began with the president being wildly differential to moscow, to russia. you know, he never punished them or chengallenged them for the 2 election hack. he defied advisors counsel repeatedly to be tougher on russia, insisting he believed a better relationship could be formed with moscow, with vladimir putin. you're right. perhaps the signature moment was had hel sinsinki when he decide side with putin. and now once again he is undercutting top advisors. hours after secretary of state mike pompeo indeed blamed russia for the cyber hack, which is the consensus of the intelligence agencies across the, from all branches of government, the

president cast out on that, suggested that, well, maybe it's china, who of course he vilified for the handling of the coronavirus pandemic. and again letting russia off the hook, suggesting that they were perhaps not to blame and mystifying advisors who aren't sure what the upside is for him in his last 30-odd days in office. he has dug into this position and refusing to change. once again perhaps endangering security and allowing russia perhaps permission to do this again. as a final point, that's the fear here, is this is another act of aggression from russia going unpunished. we heard from president-elect biden speak out against it. perhaps when the biden administration comes to office they will levy sanctions against putin. but from this white house, from this president, silence. >> yeah. and ed luce, you go down the list of aggressive actions by vladimir putin, by russia, and

donald trump's either forgiveness or explanation or denial, and the list has gotten so long over the past four years. i mean, i go back to this summer, finding out that vladimir putin had put bounties on the heads of american troops in afghanistan. i remember upon hearing the news thinking, well, maybe, just maybe donald trump can't turn a blind eye to this where putin's been caught actually trying to kill american troops and paying terrorists to do so, and yet he did then, he did in helsinki, he continues to even now. >> yeah, it's interesting. joe, you asked jonathan who in the administration might be agreeing with trump that it could be china and not anybody

but russia. we now know that last week michael flynn was in the oval office. of course, he is not in the administration, but if we look at hue the trump administration began, michael flynn was, if you like the first casualty of it, having lied to the fbi about his contacts during the transition with the russian ambassador. we are now looking at the end of the trump administration with the very same convicted michael flynn urging president trump to use, i guess, putin-esque measures, the insurrection act, martial law and so forth to overturn the results of this election. i don't have any special insights into what putin has over trump, why there is this strange denialism about anything russia does. but i do know that there are other people who are close to russia and who are also close to trump in these crucial very, very important last 30 days

where he still has the massive powers of the u.s. president. >> while we are on the subject of michael flynn, president trump is searching for new ways to undermine the election results. we learned that those ideas now reportedly include a flynn-pushed idea of declaring martial law in swing states and then using a conspiracy theoryist to help overturn the election. we will get to trump's ongoing coup attempt in just a moment. but first, after eight long months, congress has finally reached a deal on a $900 billion coronavirus relief bill. the bill will include $600 checks, meaning a family of four could get up to $2,400 depending on their income. there is also payments of up to $300 per week for federal unemployment benefits, which could begin as early as next week. it also includes a $25 billion in rental assistance and an

extension on eviction moratorium, which was set to run out in days. the bipartisan bill does not include a republican priority of liability protections nor one of the democrats' priorities of state and local funding. voting on the bill is expected to come later today. let's bring in political senior washington correspondent and co-author of the "politico playbook" anna palmer with more on this. tell us the details, sticking points, and where do we go from here? >> it's been a long, drawn-out negotiation as we're all aware. and they finally within the last big gasp before the end of 2020 have come to a deal here in washington. both sides are unhappy, which is usually what happens when these big massive deals come together. i think one of the biggest things is the fact that we haven't even seen texts of this

bill even though they are expected to vote in the coming hours. the white house says it's going to sign it in. the big question remains, what future could there be for any more money coming, any more stimulus coming? the numbers are only going to get tighter in 2021. this could be one of the last packages and relief efforts that congress is able to do. >> so, jonathan lemire, the president wanted more money, more than $600. it talked about getting, becoming involved in the process, but really didn't so much in the end, and you actually had that bipartisan consensus group in the center starting with joe manchin and mitt romney driving this from the start. >> a relief for so many americans. of course, frustration it took so long. you're right. president trump played a hands-off role. treasury secretary steven mnuchin was his representative

during the talks. the president really wasn't part of this, although he almost blew up the process last week when he wanted much larger economics in the hands of americans and was told by advisors that the republicans in the senate would in the go for that. but, you know, and now it looks like a bipartisan agreement has been reached. the president is expected to sign this. and my question for you, anna, we heard from both sides of the aisle that this deal is a first step or perhaps a second step after what we saw in the spring and that there is hope for another package. senate leader mcconnell and pelosi and schumer said more will be needed next year. that, of course, will come under a biden administration. how easy or, frankly, how difficult will this be to put together a package like this? could it be even bigger next time around? >> i think it's going to be very, very, very difficult. i can't underscore that enough. this took months to get this deal done really at the end of the wire.

and if you look at the majorities in the house in particular, there is going to be very little wiggle room for speaker nancy pelosi to get any kind of a deal done, particularly when you look at house republicans two years later wanting to fight for majority. they will be having that in their sights every single day. in the senate you saw a down payment in terms of the things that they didn't get in there. they didn't get the state and local money that they wanted to. but it's hard to see how or what would be the mechanism that would actually force congress to act on this unless there is some really big economic downturn. >> "politico's" anna palmer. thank you very much for coming on this morning. still ahead, how much damage could the president do in his final 30 days? judging by some of the ideas floating around the white house, the answer is a lot. new reporting says the president is musing about martial law and we'll talk about that next on "morning joe."

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. back to the wild talk about a special counsel, and even using martial law to help overturn the election. nbc news has confirmed that during a meeting inside the oval office on friday president trump discussed naming election conspiracy theorist sidney powell as special counsel to investigate the 2020 election. the story was first reported by "the new york times," which says that most of the president's advisors opposed the plan. a source stels nbc news that white house counsel pat cipollone and white house chief of staff mark meadows cut the meeting off because it was going in an alarming direction. last week on the far right network newsmax former national security advisor michael flynn, who also participated in the

meeting, floated the idea of seizing voting machines and deploying the military to rerun the election in swing states. "the washington post," "the new york times," and "the associated press" reported that trump asked about the idea during a meeting. a source tells "the post" that the proposal was shot down by mark meadows and cipollone. the president denied the martial law reporting calling it fake news. the army, however, felt the need to issue a statement saying, quote, there is no role for the u.s. military in determining the outcome of an election. according to "the times," trump attorney rudy giuliani participated in that friday meeting by phone and that he also pushed back on the special counsel idea. but that's perhaps because giuliani focused on his own effort to overturn the election by seizing voting machines. axios is following up on the reporting by "the new york times" that trump attorney rudy

giuliani called the second in command at the department of homeland security to attempt to access the machines for the trump campaign to inspect. the conversation between mr. giuliani and ken cuccinelli, the acting deputy secretary of homeland security, took place in the past week according to people familiar with the discussion, who were granted anonymity because they were not authorized to describe it. cuccinelli reportedly told giuliani that the department has no authority to seize voting machines, though it oversees the cybersecurity and truck cybersecurity security agency which is responsible for safeguarding elections. "the times" reports it is unclear whether mr. trump facilitated the phone call. giuliani called cuccinelli to push the department to re-examine the machines to find evidence of what the trump campaign has called widespread

fraud. times reporter maggie haberman tweeted that attorney sidney powell pitched an executive order to seize the machines during the friday white house meeting. let's bring in "new york times" reporter and msnbc national security an list michael schmidt for this. >> it is so confusing. i thought sidney powell, after she said that kelly loeffler had rigged the election with brian kemp, that she wasn't a part of the team. that's interesting. you know, michael, i'm struck by something that jonah goldberg wrote last week, which was basically saying that donald trump was out of his mind and if he had told republicans six months ago what donald trump was going to be doing now, they would accuse him of having trump derangement syndrome, that it has gotten so bad that they would have been shocked even six months ago, and yet here they

are remaining quiet for the most part and not calling him out for this. but i just jotted down while mika was reading, this is what he has done the past month or so. called for the arrest of joe biden and his family, put pressure on the attorney general, his attorney general of the united states to arrest his political opponent when he was behind in the polls. refused to guarantee a peaceful transfer of power. now this weekend we hear about the calling for martial law and, in fact, the president asking whether he could call martial law. talking about the seizing of voting machines. accusing republican governors and secretary of states and local officials of being in a conspiracy with hugo chavez and joseph stalin and whoever else, and getting to a point where, yes, liberals, this weekend the defenders of the republic were ken cuccinelli and mark meadows.

think about that for a moment. but, michael, it is getting actually to the point where you just wonder if we shouldn't just get rid of the 25th amendment because, in any other time, any other sane time, it would be used to temporarily remove a president from office if he were talking about these sorts of things. >> look, i think that it is a fact at this point that if donald trump could, he would steal the election and he would stay there regardless of anything else, and that he is truly only being held back by folks like cuccinelli and meadows, as you were saying, who are truly loyalists. those are not sort of the john kellys or don mcgahns of earlier in the administration. those are folks that have been around the president for four years and were really true supporters of him, but are

clearly unwilling to go along with this. pat cipollone, who authored some of those, you know, very outlandish documents defending the president during impeachment, thoese are not, yo know, the earlier containers of the administration. this is truly the last line of aides that are still around trump. and the sort of symmetry here, the bookend of michael flynn, the president's first national security advisor, back in the oval office to, it looks like, provide his opinion, if not advise, the president on how to use martial law in these incredibly, i guess, you know, for lack of a better word, creative ways of trying to overturn the election, michael flynn, the original tie back to russia, michael flynn, who we

still don't know why he lied about his contacts with the russian ambassador, michael flynn who bill barr following the lead of his lawyer, sidney powell, going to court to throw out his case, to have a judge throw it out, you know, all sort of wrapped up into one with 30 days left in trump's administration. >> michael schmidt, thank you so much. we will talk to lawrence o'donnell coming up about a project he has been working on for over a decade. but first a possible silver lining to president trump's problematic approach to the law, and health care. a big increase in the number of students interested in defending the constitution and doing no harm. the impact on higher learning next on "morning joe." it's been a tough year.

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folks, we are in a crisis. just like we need to be a unified nation in response to covid, we need a unified national response to climate change. we need to meet the moment with

the urgency, t it demands as yo would during any national emergency. and from this crisis, from these crises, i should say, we need to seize the opportunity to build back and build back better than we were before. that's what this administration is going to do with the help of these fine people. >> that's president-elect bidon introducing the nominees tasked with implementing his climate policies. earlier in the week top members of biden's domestic policy team met with representatives of the poor people's campaign to talk about the priorities for the incoming administration's first 100 days. with us the co-chair of the poor people's campaign and president of repairers of the breach, reverend william barber. also with us editor at large for the non-profit newsroom, the 19th, and msnbc contributor errin haines. reverend, let's start with you. what was discussed at that

meeting? what priorities are important in your mind for the biden team to implement their first 100 days? >> good morning, joe and mika. in addition to economists and public health officials that were there, 32 people in the room, most poor and low wealth. one young lady, black low-wage worker, lost 41 family members from covid so far. one white family, white farmers talked about the level of suicide among white farmers even before covid. and so we talked about the need to enact comprehensive covid relief, long-term stimulus, sick leave, unemployment, protection from eviction, quality health care for all regardless of pre-existing conditions, raising the minimum wage to $15 immediately, updating the poverty measures so we are getting a real understanding of what poverty and low wealth is in this country. free covid testing.

free vaccines and access to the most vulnerable, the most impacted. we talked about a national rent freeze and moratorium without the credit penalties. we talked about increasing food programs and resources to keep rural hospitals. we are not talking about hospitals that are closing in appalachia and the rural south. we talked about increasing public support for public education and federal infrastructure designed to be socially and climate beneficial, but targeted at poor and low-wealth communities because we are going to have to lift from the bottom up. and we talked about comprehensive just immigration reform, demilitarizing and ending these camps, passing right now in the midst of this voting rights and repealing bad trump executive orders and bad trump tax policies, and that this needs to be comprehensive because what we have seen even this week is one-third less, less than one-third of what the

house said was needed, and this surely is not enough and one piece of policy is not going to bring us out of what this covid has caused. our government's inept response to it has caused, and the fact that poor and low-wealth people, 41 million of them, were already hurting even prior to covid. we said that many of the things that we talked about would need to be done even if we didn't do covid. and president biden elect said to us in september, he said ending poverty will be at the center of change, the center of my theory of change, and i want to be a part of this campaign. and its work. >> reverend, how was your reaction, how was your group's reaction to the biden team's assurances? do you feel they are going in the right direction? are there any areas where you are concerned that they may not push for enough? >> the poor people's campaign, we understand that it's just

that, a campaign. that's why we had, you know, people in the room. we had two former hbcu presidents. we had legal scholars, public health officials. so, first of all, they agreed to a series of meetings because we have been talking to them a lot since the election, and that was great, number one. we also said to them we want to meet with biden/harris right now. they have to get the cabinet together. we want to meet with the domestic policy people and then after the election we want to have a white house-level conference with poor and low-wealth people in the room. we want economists and public health officials and moral leaders in the room, and they signaled that they were open to that. and then we said we want to be allies, but we reserve the right to be critics because too often what we have is neoliberalism or trickle down economics and nobody talking about poor and low-wealth people openly.

so this was a great first meeting. we wanted to do exactly what we did and lay out a comprehensive agenda that's not so much about positions, who holds positions, but the positions they hold and who is at the center of their vision for transformation in this country. >> certainly rising income inequality and widening gap between the rich and poor is not a topic that is spent a lot of time on in the trump administration, errin. the last four years very little discussion of that. certainly it seems like it is picking up now as the president-elect has made it a priority. but i want to get your assessment so far. the team he has put in place, but the obstacles he faces once he comes into office. how much of this do you think is going to come down to the two senate runoff races in georgia if the democrats are able to controls senate, will that make a big difference, or are there things biden can do perhaps through executive order or on his own even if mitch mcconnell remains senate majority leader?

>> yeah, jonathan, i thoi those georgia runoff races come into focus when you are talking about president-elect biden and vice president-elect kamala harris' ability to keep those issues in this campaign, even prior to the pandemic, but certainly the systemic inequalities that have been laid bare by this pandemic and that, you know, people like reverend barber are calling for to be addressed on the other side of this pandemic as part of our new normal for people who may never get sick from coronavirus, but nevertheless are still wrestling with things that don't have a vaccine like housing insecurity, food insecurity, the wealth gap. president biden did say that racial inequality was one of the four crises that he and vice president-elect harris will confront upon taking office, and

poverty is certainly a part of that. listen, reverend raphael warnock, i know from having covered him in georgia for years, was somebody who was squarely focused on trying to address issues of poverty, inequality in atlanta from the pulpit of ebenezer baptist church. so should he be elected in this january 5th runoff is somebody who would take, you know, govern with that in mind. but i am wondering for reverend barber, you know, who expanded the electorate with a lot of these folks who are in these marginalized communities that would be directly impacted, how do you see, now, those voters now continuing to hold this administration accountable? is that something that you are urging to push for as this administration takes shape? >> definitely. we see three mandates. one of them is we said in the meeting on thursday, we let the biden administration know we had had a moral assembly march on

washington digitally in june. our public health advisors asked us not to go in the streets. but 2.7 million people showed up and we intend on doing that physically this coming here. we have to keep the pressure on. we are instituting moral monday. we know the biden administration has a mandate. 55% of poor and low-wealth people voted for the biden/harris people. 55%. not black, not white, but poor and low-wealth people. that was an 11% increase and more than 6 million of poor and low-wealth people that didn't vote last time voted this time. we touched about 3 million people in our campaign in ten states. so that's a mandate. secondly, he has a moral mandate. i like the way joe often talks about it. a moral mandate. i don't want to talk about far left and far right. i want to talk about the constitution that says if you are going to heal the nation, have domestic tranquility, you have to establish justice and promote the general way -- every policy should be judged by that. there is a biblical mandate, a

deep religious mandate that says a nation, not individual charity, but nations cannot get better unless you deal with the least of these, and this country, not just with trump, but we've had 140 million poor and low-wealth people, 43% of this nation in poverty before covid, 8 million since may. that's 1 million a month. you can't keep having discussions and not talk about poverty and low wealth. the reality is you can't fix this unless you fix it from the bottom. and what we are seeing this week, i was thinking, joe, mika, you know, what we're seeing is it's looking a lot like a -- you know, trump used the military to stop things, you know your bible. rachel mourning and refusing to be comfortable because of the death, the government not being willing to give to a poor couple in the third trimester of pregnancy, forcing him to walk across the desert. it's looking like a harad

christmas. that's not what we need. this country is going to have to face this issue of poverty and low wealth. and what joe calls the cost of inkey quality. not what is the cost to fix it, but what is the cost to leave it the same? a $1 trillion lost because of child poverty. trillions of dollars lost because of the lack of living wages. we cannot continue like this. and i believe biden/harris have a mandate. and he said it. they said it when they came before us in september. we want ending poverty to be at the center of change for this administration. >> all right. reverend william barber, thank you so much. we have a lot more to talk about. hope you'll come back very soon. and coming up next, we are going to dig into who and what is driving a surge of students interested in law and medicine. it's really fascinating.

applications for medicine and law have absolutely skyrocketed. it's something that i have been following for quite some time, and there are good reasons for both and perhaps both have something to do with the current occupant of the white house. keep it right here on "morning joe." the sleep number 360 smart bed is on sale now. can it help with snoring? i've never heard snoring. exactly. no problem. ...and done. save 50% on the sleep number 360 limited edition smart bed. plus, 0% interest for 48 months on all smart beds. ends monday.

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earlier this month we told you about how the example of our front line health care workers were setting amid this pandemic is actually inspiring a new generation of students. according to the association of american medical colleges, overall applications to medical school is up 18%. that's a surge that is being dubbed the fauci effect. get this. we are also seeing applications to law schools going way up as well. with us now to talk about that, dean of admissions at georgetown law eddie cornblatt and senior

director of student affairs and programs at the association of american medical colleges geoffrey young. i heard these guys that were a little older than me talking about how they got inspired to go into government because of jfk. and, man, when i was in congress, it seems like so many people, when i say, well, why did you get involved? a lot of times it went back to being inspired by jfk. here the fauci effect obviously inspiring a lot of people to get into health care. you have quite a surge now, don't you? >> yes, we do. you know, the thing that i really wanted to em phasize is the fauci effect is not something that the aamc coined, but i want to paraphrase dr. fauci, that if it increases those interested in medicine, then we are happy to utilize his name.

18% is unprecedented when you think about the fact that on average the number of applicants that apply to medical school from year to year is less than 2.5%. so we to think at some level that while it does take several years for a medical student -- sorry, an applicant to strengthen their application for medical school, it takes, you know, several years. however, we do think that the efforts of our front line workers has motivated them. >> yeah. and, andy, i remember back during the mueller investigation where every night it was this no-nonsense fbi guy just following the law, going after the law, and this belief that no man or woman was above the law.

during that time, regardless of how it ended, that that was going to inspire younger americans. of course, we have seen time and again, even trump-appointed judges being the ones keeping this constitutional republic in check against some of the president's worst instinct. are you also seeing a surge in law school applications? >> in a major way, joe. first of all, good morning. thank you for having me. nationally, applications are up about 30 to 35%. it's unprecedented. i have been at this job for about two centuries. i have never seen anything like that at georgetown law school our applications are up 60%. i think there are a lot of things at work here, but it feels like a perfect storm of, over the last nine months, first of all, the economy. when the economy turns down, applications tend to go up. there is a history of that, but

not like this. that would explain some of it. people at their computers, so it's a little bit easier to apply now. that explains some of it. that would explain an increase of 10%, 15%. the surge we are seeing now almost daily where i work, i think it's a perfect storm of law dominating everything. i watched the first hour of your show, as i usually do, and law is everywhere and involved with everything, which means lawyers are everywhere and involved with everything. george floyd, ruth bader ginsburg, the election, health justice, immigration, the entire population has learned about the southern district of new york, the 25th amendment. all of that is all law related. as you said, joe, you know, it's the judiciary and the courts and the judges that are putting up red lights all the time, and students i see are energized and

committed to doing real good in the world. i have had the pleasure of interviewing 1,200 of these kids by zoom. i have been to 46 states and six continents by zoom, and these are idealistic kids who are excited to be applying. this reminds me of the '60s where they have decided to run into the burning building, except we discovered that there are about 10,000 burning buildings. >> what seems to be to be so exciting about this is the law has been the one area where there has been bipartisan support, andy, for the constitutional norms that many of us, i'll speak for myself here, have been concerned with because they were being pushed at and prodded at by the executive branch, but it seems that you have just as many republic

republican-appointed federal judges. the federal li thei "the federalist" society trujs who time and again said we don't really care about your political goals. we don't really care about what you are trying to do. we're looking at the constitution, and this is out of bounds. it seems to me that both republican and democratic students, conservative and liberal students can all take great pride in the fact that it is the judicial branch that has proven itself to be the institution that has really been a rock, the foundation of this constitutional republic over the past four years. >> agree 100% with that. our applicants are from all different stripes and all different ideologies. but the surge in interest is just, you know, this reinforcing, as you say, the judiciary putting up those red lights and sort of the rule of law.

that's inspired people. it's inspired people in their early 20s. that's where most of our applicants are. we do get older applicants. between the ages of 21 and 26, these kids are ready to rock and roll and they are excited to be doing this. wething, joe, that we are -- others and i in the faculty are keeping a close eye on is where this increase is coming from. i'm pleased so far it's coming from all income brackets. we need to watch that carefully as this endemic is having disproportionate impacts. we're mindful of this. so far, so good, but we've been keeping a close eye because diversity is so important to us. >> jeffrey, i wanted to pick up on that point in your realm in the medical school. are you also seeing applications from all sorts of walks of life, income brackets, diverse groups. and inheartened are you to see this when there's a shortage of doctors of all

stripes, doctors and nurses and when medicine has been under attack at times from the white house, as much as dr. fauci and others like him have been lionized. president trump has not echoed that. in fact, has diminished their work time and again. >> i totally agree. i mean, we are equally energized, recognizing that we are seeing currently for the upcoming cycle for -- that we enter into medical school into 2021, as we indicated that we are seeing this incredible range of interest, but we're also seeing that in multiple ethnic racial groups and other backgrounds. so we think that our young learners are seeing the value of medicine. we anticipate that there's going to be a shortage of physicians as you mentioned by the year 2033. and so seeing this increase, seeing the level of motivation, the level of excitement that our applicants are displaying is

critically important. the other piece i just really want to echo is that, you know, we are -- i am humbled and pleased that we are seeing gradual increases in the diversity of our applicants. because it's critically important that the diverse nation be reflected by a diverse workforce, physician workforce. so the aamc recognizes this need and recently released its strategic plan. within that strategic plan, we are talking about increasing diversity for applicants. so we're going to work very closely with our member medical schools, our major teaching hospitals and health systems to try to ensure that we are increasing the level of diversity at our medical schools but we're also going to be looking to establish additional relationships and partnerships with organizations that potentially may have an expertise in k through 12

because that's critically important as we really think about strengthening the pipeline to diversify the physician workforce. so we are all very excited to make that difference. >> fantastic. all right. senior director of student affairs and programs at the association of american medical colleges, jeffrey young, thank you so much. and deecan of admissions at georgetown law school, jeffrey cornblatt, thank you. we appreciate you both being with us this morning. still ahead, msnbc's lawrence o'donnell gets his last word a lot earlier this morning. he joins us next in 30 seconds.

this is where someone like michael flynn never belongs anywhere near the white house, let alone inside the oval office and his lawyer sydney powell. the best advice i can give to the president is keep michael flynn and sydney powell out of the white house and then those really bad ideas will stay out of the oval office as well. >> that is former republican governor chris christie advising president trump to ignore such crazy ideas as declaring martial law in swing states and then using a conspiracy theorist to help him overturn the election. and, in effect, launch a coup or maybe you call it an autocoup against the president-elect of

the united states, joe biden. the host of msnbc's "the last word," lawrence o'donnell. thanks for being with us. i wanted to ask you two quick questions here before we talk about this extraordinary program that you've been a part of for a decade now. first, sort of a two-part question. we were just talking before the last segment about the judicial branch and the fact that that is one institution that did hold, seemed to hold over the past four years. i wanted to get quick insight on how you think the institutions have fare d, but let's also tal about what happened this weekend, the call for martial law, the army having to tamp that down, and just how concerned you are about what's going to happen over the next 30 days. >> the army's statement about that is so extraordinary, joe. the united states army having to put out a statement saying, we

have nothing to do with elections provoked by news reports of a president in discussions about using the army to somehow rerun the elections or -- actually, you can't even describe what they were thinking about using the army for. and when you think about institutions holding, it really is the judiciary that we look at this year and say they really did come through, you know, very solidly, all the way through this election controversy. and we can't say that about the congress. we can't say that about the senate when it came to the impeachment procedures. and even the way they handled the impeachment trial in the senate, not allowing witnesses and that sort of thing. and so we learned a lot. we tested a lot in the trump years. we learned a lot. and i actually think -- i think one of the ways you can describe the story of what we've been going through since november 7th when all the networks showed joe biden as the winner is, we've

shown donald trump and the so-called legal team knocking on every single conceivable door with frivolous lawsuits, with -- every one of the most frivolous, you could just argue the degree of how frivolous they were, but they knocked on every door they possibly could with the results they had as -- from the election and didn't get anywhere. the system held in every single way in those courts. and so, in a way, we can say to trump voters, look, they tried absolutely everything. they tried everything. and there was nothing there. even if donald trump had only run one, two or three cases that he might even have a better argument to make for his case involving conspiracies in the election. but when his troops look at it, they have to say, he tried everything. they went to every court they could go to, and there was

nothing there. >> so, you know, lawrence, we -- you and i both spent our adult life in politics or covering politics. like me, i'm sure you never, ever expected to see anything like this. i certainly didn't. let's talk about -- you're celebrating a special anniversary. a ten-year anniversary. tell us about it. >> well, as you know, joe, on our show, i've been running the. >> k.i.n.d. fund, kids in need of desks. kids that never had desks or expected them to have desks. we've been delivering them for ten years through contributions of people -- viewers of this network have contributed. this is really entirely an msnbc audience-created program. we've also combined a scholarship program for girls to attend high school in malawi

because the high school graduation rate for girls is half the graduation rate for boys, and high school is not free. public high school isn't free in malawi and other african countries. it's a very small amount of tuition, but people living on $2 a day or less in malawi, which is the majority of the country, most families cannot afford the tuition for high school for any student. so it's -- the need is great and the msnbc audience has been really great in meeting that need. and this year, joe, i've just been reminding people about it because with the job losses in this country, the tremendous income losses in this country, this isn't a time to be asking people to reach deeper to try to help, but the audience has come through once again this year, very much to my surprise. and it's really been terrific. and it really is audience participation at its best. because i know my audience is kind of waiting for it to come up up every year and we tell the story of girls getting through

high school. joyce, who we've been following for years on the school is now in medical school. she began her first year of college and medical school in malawi. and when i was listening to your previous segment about higher education medical school, law school and the opportunities that kids have in this country and how you can have this giant application surge because so many kids in this country can just decide this is what i want to do now, that's not the way it works in other places around the world. it's a much steeper climb. >> you're making that climb far less steep. the great work you've done and just incredible. to date, k.i.n.d. has raised more than $26 million to support education in malawi from generous "last word" viewers. thanks, lawrence. we appreciate you being with us this morning. to donate, click on