good morning and thank you so much for joining us. i'm morgan radford. rotten to the core is how one republican is describing the president's latest round of pardons, delivering an early christmas surprise to some of his closest allies. meanwhile across the country, millions of americans are waiting for help as the covid relief bill hangs in the balance, this as the covid health crisis continues to get worse. hospitalizations have more than

doubled since last month. with christmas gatherings already under way, health officials feel the darkest days of the pandemic are still ahead. joining us this morning is nbc's josh lederman with the president in west palm beach, florida. nbc justice correspondent pete williams in washington, and msnbc legal analyst glenn kirschner, a former federal prosecutor. thank you so much for joining us this morning, gentlemen. josh, i want to start with you. what can you tell us about this latest round of pardons? >> it includes a long list of people with political or personal ties to president donald trump, morgan. people like paul manafort who was involved in financial crimes related to his work for pro-russian figure in ukraine. also people like roger stone who had previously had his sentence commuted by president trump but will now have that conviction essentially erased from his record. stone and manafort, both examples of people who declined to cooperate with federal

investigators who were investigating things involving president trump which has raised the prospect that these individuals basically declined to help out law enforcement with the hope that they might get what they, in fact, got, which was a pardon down the line from president donald trump, and then a family member, if by marriage, of the president. charles kushner, the father-in-law of his son-in-law jared kushner, who was involved according to his plea with tax evasion, witness tampering and other crimes, prosecuted by governor chris christie. we should say it's not uncommon for there to be some controversial pardons at the end of a president's term. certainly president bill clinton, bush also had some that raised some eyebrows. it's not common for the vast majority to get a clemency at the end of a president's term to be people in one way or another politically kkted wiconnected.

>> pete, what's next for paul manafort? prosecutors in new york are still fighting to file state charges against him. >> that's right. the president's pardon power applies to federal crimes. so manafort is off the hook for the federal charges. but part of his crime was, according to the government, mortgage fraud. a new york state court said that that prosecution based basically on the same conduct in the federal case, violated a state law on double jeopardy. this is different than the constitutional protection against double jeopardy. it's additional protection under new york state law. they tossed out the prosecution. vance's prosecutors are saying they intend to appeal that decision and keep trying to bring it. >> pete, thanks so much. i want to go back to something that josh mentioned just a moment ago in terms of the vast majority of these people who are politically connected to the president.

glenn, by one count, 60 to 65 of president trump's pardons have gone with people who have had such a personal connection. is this the way that pardon power in the constitution is designed? is this how it's supposed to work? >> morgan, the problem is, in the constitution the pardon power is wide open. almost uncon strained. it simply says that the president has the power to grant reprieves and pardons. it hasn't often been tested in court. there's not much precedent on the issue of what to do if, for example, the president grants a pardon as part of a bribery scheme or part of a conspiracy to obstruct justice as it appears, there's an argument, he did with respect to roger stone. so the real challenge will become in january when president biden is sworn in and he appoints somebody that we all expect will be a law enforcing

attorney general, there will be difficult decisions to make about these pardons. should the prosecutors, the department of justice go into court and begin challenging perhaps the worst of the worst pardons? if there's evidence that the department of justice can develop in the grand jury, that the president really did swap a pardon for silence to protect himself, i think there's an argument that that kind of corrupt pardon may be challengeable in court. >> you mentioned the difficulty of these decisions and it's garnering a lot of reaction, especially in washington. i want to play you just a bit of sound from former deputy fbi director andrew mccabe this morning. >> it's a remarkable act of corruption i don't think we've ever seen before. these pardons are essentially the culmination of those acts of obstruction of justice, what was seen and referred to in the mueller report has been completed.

the pardons were dangled. now they've been delivered in return for protection for the president. >> josh, what have you been hearing? what has been the reaction politically to these pardons? >> in a lot of ways, morgan, i don't think this was a huge surprise to anyone because the president has been telling advisers and associates for quite some time that he intended to pardon people in his final weeks in office. a lot of these individuals had been lobbying the president privately or publicly, in some cases both torques grant clemency to them. people sort of expected these were a lot of the bold names we would likely see. that said, the president is getting certainly a lot of pushback from democrats, including some republicans like senator ben sasse who said this is rotten to the core. the president's pardon power is fairly absolute. glenn kirschner raised a good point about some of the circumstances in which you might be able to challenge this. that's never been fully tested.

we'll have to see if anyone is successful at stopping any of this. >> one of the hot-button tickets were the blackwater pardons. you worked with people directly involved in that case. what's the reaction like this morning? >> i've been talking to one of my very close friends, the assistant united states attorney who was the lead prosecutor on the blackwater trials, a gentleman named pat martin. needless to say, he is upset with this result, and the other reason this is really upsetting, morgan, is because victims have rights, too. in 2004 there was landmark legislation passed called the crime victim rights act, often referred to as the victim's bill of rights. people may not know, but victims actually have a right to go into court and object to any plea offer being extended by a prosecutor in the case. similarly, they have rights to notice and an opportunity to be heard at parole hearings if the

defendant that perpetrated crimes against them may be released. it really feels to this old career prosecutor like the president may not have violated the letter of the crime victim rights act, but he sure did violate the spirit of the crime victim rights act. in all of these 15 pardons, there are victims, and i suspect they didn't get their say before these pardons were granted. >> just briefly, before i let you all go, i think that's an interesting distinction you make between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. pete, what i found interesting is we saw a former congressman, finance violators, contractors, all these people par don't. what about criminal justice reform, what about people locked up for years on non-violent drug crimes. the president seemed to express interest in that earlier in his

term. >> there are some cases that involve that sort of thing. you have to, to be honest, give the trump administration some credit for passing a law called the first step act which has resulted in the release of thousands of prisoners who were serving long sentences for mandatory minimum violations. the trump administration was able successfully to get that through congress when democratic administrations were not able to do it. regardless of whether the president delivered on the pardons for that, he does get some credit in that area. >> he did move the ball forward in that way. pete williams, glenn kirschner, thanks for joining us. i'd like to ask josh to stick around. we're turning the the chaos and confusion in washington this morning with two huge bills hanging in the balance. first up, the defense spending bill. what's at stake? it's keeping our key military operations and programs up and running and pay raises for soldiers. the president's issue is he doesn't want to rename military

bases named for confederate generals. he also wants to modify a law that provides liability protections for social media, talking about facebook and twitter. it passed both chambers of commerce with overwhelming bipartisan support a few weeks ago. president trump made good on his promise to veto it. now congress is making plans to try to override that veto which would be the first of his presidency. then secondly, you have the bipartisan covid relief bill with a price tag of $900 billion, which is also tied to government funding. at stake there you have $600 stimulus checks for millions of americans. we're also talking about much-needed federal unemployment aid, but the president's issue with this one, he says he wants $2,000 stimulus checks instead of $600, which is something democrats pushed for initially. negotiations on this bill have been going on for nearly seven months already. lawmakers finally came to an agreement this week, passing the

package late monday. but now washington is waiting to see what the president does next. if republicans cannot convince the president to sign the package by monday, the government will shut down. josh lederman is still with us. josh, the bottom line, president trump has left washington in limbo, but the big question is why and why now? do those around him, even his closest advisers really know what his end game is here? >> reporter: they really don't, nor did they even really know, many of them, that any of this was coming. as far as resolution to this, we're kind of at a standstill about a clear path forward. the house did meet this morning. they didn't move forward with anything to try to change that, direct checks that the president is seeking. the house will also be taking up that override of the defense bill that you mentioned just a minute ago when they come back on monday. but the president, he basically dumped this on congress's desk

with that twitter video about not wanting to sign the covid relief bill as it was and also his veto of the defense bill. then he skipped down. he came to mar-a-lago just across the river behind me without many aides with him. it's not like he has staff down here that's able to help him start to get to work of figuring out a resolution here. instead he essentially said not good enough to congress and left it in their lap, but they're now in a position of not knowing exactly what the president would sign and not really being in a place politically where they can even deliver it. >> josh lederman with the latest in west palm beach, florida. thank you so much. joining me now, democratic congressman andy kim from new jersey. i'd like to thank you for spending time with us this morning. if we can, i'd like to start with where josh left off, covid relief. what does this holdup mean for millions of americans including those you represent right there in new jersey?

>> you hit it right on the head there, this means people's lives. right now the people i talk to in my district, some of them are hungry. some of them are worried. some of them are scared about losing their home, a roof over their head. that's what this is about. this isn't about words on a piece of paper. this is about delivering for people in the time of greatest need. these are some of the darkest days in our nation's history, and we need to get this done. we should have got this done months ago. we have to deliver now. >> let's switch gears for just a minute. on the defense spending bill, how confident are you that this will end up being the first successful override of trump's presidency? >> let's start with what this bill is. this isn't an ordinary bill. this bill is the backbone of our national security. it's about the pay raises for the troops that need it so bad, about the cybersecurity efforts that we need to have, but it's about making sure our national security continues to be a bipartisan effort.

i hope we have the votes it takes to override the veto. we should not be in this place to start with. that's something we need to keep in mind about the covid relief package and the ndaa. we don't need to end the year with this level of chaos continuing to erode trust in the american people, in their democracy. these are two bills that should have no problem passing, no problem getting a signature in the oval office. it's a shame we're in this situation. >> and americans are still waiting. speaking of that chaos that you mentioned, these pardons are also playing into the chaos, especially when it comes to the reaction across the country. i'd like to play what your republican colleague in the senate, lindsey graham, said about this just last year. take a listen. >> would you advise the president against pardoning? >> yeah, yeah. >> why? >> it's too soon. the point is pardoning manafort would be seen as a political

disaster for the president. there may come a day down the road, after the politics have changed that you'd want to consider an application for him like everybody else, but now would be a disaster. >> a political disaster. he said if the politics have changed. have the politics changed since 2019? that was in march. where are republicans right now? >> i find it interesting where lindsey graham came in at this being a political disaster. that could very bell with true. i want to take a step back. what we recognize self resingle day we've had nearly 3,000 americans die from coronavirus. we are in the midst of the worst pandemic we've seen in modern times. we see a president who the only accomplishments he's done over this last week is pardoning criminal friends as well as vetoing our national security defense budget. so this is where i just want to linger. yes, it probably is very well a political disaster. perhaps that's a place where i

agree with senator lipid see graham on this. that's actually not what's important. that's not what people in my district have been talking about since yesterday. what they're saying is where is the president's head right now, that he's pardoning his criminal friends and then going off on vacation at a time when we meade the leadership right now. it's just so sad to see the absence of leadership in the white house. >> all right, congressman, i want to thank you so much for spending time with us today. congressman from new jersey, andy kim. thank you for being with us. >> thank you. with just nine days left in the year, it's unlikely the u.s. will meet the goal of getting 20 million people vaccinated, but why. coming up, i'll ask one florida doctor about the challenges he's facing on step one, getting his patients to trust the vaccine. plus, california has the fastest coronavirus case rate in the country with some icus almost at capacity. stay with us. it's the colonial penn plan you see on tv

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i got the covid-19 vaccine today. i wasn't going to take the vaccine, honestly. i didn't want to be the first group. i didn't want to be a guinea pig, but there's a couple of things that have changed my mind. the first being that the incidence of positive covid cases coming into our hospital is increasing. i've opted to get the vaccine because i don't want to be a spreader and because i want to stop this. i want to go back to what my normal could potentially be again. in order for us to all do that, we all need to take the vaccine. >> welcome back and thanks for joining us. i'm morgan radford. as you just saw, one of the biggest hurdles facing the vaccine distribution is trust. then there's the issue of apply chain. at an operation warp speed briefing the chief medical officer said ramping up vaccine distribution is happening slower than expected and it's unlikely that u.s. will meet the goal of

administering 20 million doses by the end of the year. with me now is dr. bernard ashby, a cardiologist and the florida state lead on the committee to protect medicare. dr. ashby, thank you for joining us. first up, what have you been hearing from your patients and even members of your own family about this vaccine? >> thanks for having me, first of all. i've heard quite a few things. but there's one message that i hear quite consistently and it's the issue with the vaccines coming out so quickly in terms of the onset of the pandemic being maybe in february, january, depending on what reference point you move. folks feel like the vaccine had been expedited and they're concerned more about the safety more so than efficacy. a lot of folks, what they tell me, they want to wait and see what happens, and based on other people's reactions, then they're going to make their decision. >> we've been hearing that

reticen reticence, especially in black and brown community. we know it does have history. it's based in the facts around history. it doesn't mean it's something they currently should be worried about. draft a black doctor, dr. susan moore, who died on sunday from covid-19. earlier this month she posted a video to facebook saying she had to beg to get proper care and medication from a white doctor. my question to you, doctor, what role does the medical community play? can they start to regain trust without first addressing the care equity gap? >> first of all, i would like to say my condolences to that woman's family. i did watch the videos. they were heart-wrenching, heartbreaking. she was screaming for help. i want to transition to a point that i've been making or at least i have been making and my colleagues have been making about what's going on with the pandemic in terms of disparities. the popular narrative is the

disparities are pre-existing conditions, black folks and brown folks are more likely to have pre-existing conditions. what was not discussed was the institutional racism that's based in the health care system. what you saw was, like in places like new york, where the hospital that you went to was more predictive of your mortality than any of those other factors. that's because a lot of folks, particularly black and brown folks, go to these public hospitals that are underresourced, understaffed. because of that, they have wide gaps in terms of nurse-to-patient ratios, the doctors are overworked, the entire staff is taxed. you have patients being turned away without being tested and as a result dying because of that. what you you saw in that video is an example of what we've been discussing over and over again. dr. moore was a physician and was a woman that knew her health care knowledge and facts, but still treated less than. this is a current issue we talk

about all the time. when we talk about vaccines, this is something we need to talk about in a broader context of the u.s., but also our health care system did a lot of biases that we call racial disparities. let's call it what it is. it's racism. >> it's an interesting point, the distinction between biases and disparities. let's lead by example. you got your vaccine yesterday. how do you feel? >> i feel fine. other than being overworked, i posted it on my instagram and twitter. >> i see you there. >> there you go. predictively i've gotten some backlash from the community and folks calling me a guinea pig, a sellout. it's -- it hurts. listen, i don't do this to be lauded. i do this because this is my passion. i care about my patients. i care about my community. you can check my receipts. you can check my background.

i've been here. i've been doing this for a long time. at the end of the day, i'm going to keep doing what i'm doing. my main concern is that the disparities and the death rate are going to increase not when the vaccines come out because the up take in the vaccines are not going to take place in the degree they need to in the black and brown communities. this is something we should have been talking about for months before the vaccine came out. now it's time to play catchup. we need to prove it by allocating resources, money, attention to these communities rather than just lip service. >> you've got the receipts and also got the courage. thank you so much, to dr. bernard ashby. we appreciate, not only your service, but your time. >> i appreciate you. thank you. coming up next, covid testing sites are seeing a massive surge ahead of the holidays. i'll take you to chicago as the country's third largest city races to process thousands of tests. plus an estimated 26 million americans do not know where their next meal is coming from.

the leader of the st. louis area food bank tells us what we can do to help. stay tuned.

ideas come to all of us. maybe not yet, but if we stopped the noise... it could come even now. godaddy. start now. california has surpassed 2 million covid cases overnight,

becoming the first state to reach that grim milestone since the start of the pandemic. california is averaging 43,000 cases a day this week, and hospitalizations have more than double since last month. this as millions of americans are traveling to see loved ones for the holidays despite health warnings from health officials to stay home. many are lining up to get covid tests. in chicago there's a rush to get tested as illinois reports more than 6,500 cases. in los angeles we have our own gadi schwartz and to chicago we have nbc's shaquille brewster. gadi, we know the virus has been relentless in california. icus at capacity. are they ready, gadi, to handle a post holiday surge? >> morgan, that post holiday surge is an absolutely dreadful thought for the frontline workers. they're in the middle of the biggest spike in hospitalizations and deaths we've seen in the west coast.

that idea is terrifying. in l.a., we jumped from 12 deaths about a month ago back before thanksgiving to 70 to 80 deaths a day after the first thanksgiving surge. now we're at 140 deaths a day yesterday in l.a. that's basically going from one day every 20 minutes to one death every ten minutes. we've seen conference rooms being converted in hospitals. we've even heard of nurses conducting blood transfusions in hallways. it's backing up critical care across the state of california, something that the health and human services secretary addressed yesterday. take a listen. >> over the next couple weeks, the hospitals are going to be more inundated with patients. every day we see more and more coming in. so we are working hard to make sure that system can do what it always has done, which is not just serve covid patients, but those with heart attacks and strokes. but the more and more cases we

see, the more and more that's in jeopardy. >> reporter: morgan, right now the looming fear is one to two weeks out from this christmas, when people are likely going to continue to gather, and in the weeks after that when asymptomatic carriers continue to spread and make the situation even worse well through january, with hospitalizations already up here, 650% from november, those front line health care workers are facing a very dire fight. many of them are getting sick as well. we saw 300 or so frontline health care workers getting sick a day. that vaccination can't come soon enough. >> one death every ten minutes. it's an unconscionable number, rate. sha shaquille, let's go to you. you're in chicago right now. how busy has it been at that drive-up testing site? >> reporter: morgan, despite it being christmas eve, things have

been extremely busy at this drive-up testing facility. we're in the west loop of chicago. this is a pattern we've been seeing with the last couple holidays. we saw it ahead of thanksgiving, where there was a surge of people trying to get tested. we're seeing it ahead of the christmas holiday where people say, hey, yes, i'm planning to gather with friends and family. it won't be the typical gathering we've had in the past. i may go see my parents or grandparents, so they're coming the get tested. i spoke to the medical director of clear wellness which is operating this facility and two others across the chicago area. her warning was, yes, please come and get tested. that's a good thing. but don't rely too much on that negative test you may get from a rapid test. listen to why she said that. >> i hope people are smart about it. if you're symptomatic and get a negative covid test, that doesn't necessarily mean you don't have covid. a positive test is more indicative of a negative. a negative will be like, well,

you should still probably quarantine for having symptoms. >> reporter: you're seeing more testing options in the city. today, because of the holiday, all the city-run testing facilities are closed. what has been rolled out over the past couple weeks are at the airports, you're seeing testing options for people before they go on a flight or once they land from traveling -- once they ride back in chicago, they can go and get a rapid test directly at the airport before going to interacting with family and friends. you're seeing people trying to do whatever they can to be safe despite still wanting to celebrate the christmas holiday. >> shaquille, that was a great point that doctor made, it's the combination of testing and symptoms that are so important. gadi schwartz in los angeles and shaquille brewster trying to stay warm in chicago, thank you for joining us, gentlemen. from coast to coast, millions of mayors cans are going hungry this holiday season. nearly 26 million americans say they don't have enough to eat.

one missouri area food bank is reporting a 40% spike in need just over the last year. joining me is meredith knot president and ceo of st. louis area bank. we know many americans are heading to food banks for the very first time. we know hunger takes various forms. talk to me about what you're seeing in missouri and illinois specifically. >> good morning, morgan. thank you so much for having me. as you mentioned here at the st. louis area food bank, we've seen a 42% increase in the food we're drigting. to put that in perspective, prepandemic we were distributing enough meals to provide approximately 3 million meals every month, but since covid has hit, we have had a skyrocketing increase. so now we're distributing over 5 million meals every month across our 26 counties in missouri and illinois.

>> how are you keeping up with that demand? is your strategy different this year? >> sure. it's very different. first of all, we've had to bring on new partners. we are successful because we have a very robust network of food pantries and soup kitchens and transitional housing and community partners. we've on boarded 75 new partners since mid march bringing our network strength to well over 600. we've held over 1,300 of the mobile distribution events that the viewers are seeing on their screens right now. we're trying to do everything contactless. we're having our neighbors in need pull up in their vehicles. our volunteers are wearing masks and gloves to keep everybody safe, but to get the most amount of food and cleaning supplies and ppe out to everyone that needs it across our region. >> meredith, switch gears with me for just a moment to everything else that we've been talking about today. how did the covid relief bill and vaccines change things?

do they affect the need for food and things down the road? >> they will down the road. there's going to be a lag time in recovery. there's going to be time to get relief. any amount of relief we can provide to people that are struggling is important. that's one thing that we've learned. the margin between being okay and needing support is actually very, very thin. so it's going to take a while for us to recover. we're so, so grateful to all the businesses, foundations and individuals that have come out and volunteers or done food drives for us or provided financial gifts or matching gifts. it's truly remarkable, the kindness and resilience of our community has been tremendous. >> we are sorry to see the need, but happy to hear that so many people have stepped up and helped out, especially at this time of year. meredith knopp, president and ceo of the st. louis area food bank. >> thank you, merry christmas. >> thank you. to you as well. if you want to learn more about

how to help, volunteer or donate, you can visit feedingamerica.org. now to breaking news from overseas. after months of talks a landmark brexit deal has been reached between britain and the european union. both sides announcing the agreement this morning which still has to be ratified by both parliaments in the next few days. the deal also still leaves some critical details to be worked out. but it is a huge step forward in settling their bitter divorce more than four years after the uk officially voted to leave the bloc. as president trump pardons more than two dozen people and threatens to veto a defense spending bill, what's next? what's the next move for republicans? stay tuned. t-mobile is upgrading its network

at a record pace. we were the first to bring 5g nationwide. and now that sprint is a part of t-mobile we're turning up the speed. upgrading over a thousand towers a month with ultra capacity 5g. to bring speeds as fast as wifi to cities and towns across america. and we're adding more every week. coverage and speed. who says you can't have it all?

republicans might actually have preferred a lump of coal from president trump for christmas. instead, they got chaos. after his very tea of the covid relief bill, he issued pardons.

now he spends the week at mar-a-lago. joining me is politico reporter darrell lit man and reporter ann gearrin. how unusual are these pardons for president trump? >> well, for president trump, morgan, they actually are normal, but in the context of the way pardons have been handed out for a couple hundred years, they're extremely unusual. mostly for the last hundred years, almost all pardons have gone through the justice department. there's a whole process and procedure. there's about a dozen lawyers devoted to figuring out which applicants meet the very strict test for who would be eligible for presidential pardon which is an absolute pardon o -- pardon powers can't be overturned. that's it. when the president says you're par don't, you're par don't. that's it and done. the justice department has typically spent a great deal of time figuring out who are the

best candidates with rare exception. gerald ford par don't richard nixon and didn't go through the justice department. in the case of trump, he's par don't people who have come in through the side door, much like ford did with nixon. these people tend to be politically connected, tend to have some connection either to trump himself which we see certainly with the three high profile names you mentioned here or they have some connection with a celebrity or with a political cause that he wants to promote. so it's a completely different model under him. >> and it's the vast number of those connections that i think is particularly striking with about 60 to 65 of those pardons being with people who were politically connected. daniel, switch gears to the other stories we're following, the two big bills that they're trying to pass. i'm particularly curious about the fallout in georgia? is this a huge setback for

loeffler and perdue? how does this affect them? >> i don't think the average georgian voter is going to vote for loeffler or perdue based on kind of a wonky defense bill and also the covid relief package. i think, if they go against trump and overturn those potential vetoes, at least the veto for the defense bill, that would show they're i understand desht of trump and that could anger the base in georgia, the trump base, but it also could get them some moderate voters. i think on the hill, republicans are used to these antics, but it definitely feels like you have a president in the last month of his presidency who is almost throwing matches on a fire and wanting to watch the chaos. remember, a lot of the foreign money that he railed against in that covid bill which is actually not in that bill.

it's in the government funding bill, that was proposed by trump himself. so it's a lot of inconsistent messaging. >> which is interesting, because a lot of people may not be following kind of the wonky elements in the defense bill, but when it comes down to the money, especially in the covid relief bill, the difference between the $600 and the $1200. >> i think it shows the extent to which president trump has been disengaged from this entire process. as daniel pointed out, most of the things he's objected to now were either proposed or agreed to by trump negotiators. i think that opens a variety of windows for democrats. certainly it might be something that democrats can exploit in the short term in the georgia senate races, just sort of, is this really what you want if republicans are in charge? and in the longer term, i think

it's an opportunity for president-elect biden who's main i guess mantra true out the campaign, in addition to fighting covid responsibly was he would return washington to functioning normally, that his experience in the senate, his experience as vice president would allow him to work across the aisle, would allow him to return washington to some form of functioning normal see. i think that will be his message coming out of this week of real chaos and question marks and the government might shut down on monday of next week. >> that's the word we've been hearing over and over again, this notion of chaos. daniel, newly pardoned roger stone, the president's longtime friend did a radio program wanting pardons for assange. >> i think they're trying to get them out the door as fast as they can. they have to write summaries of the good works and how these

people are repentant or paid their debt to society. they put that in the white house press release. it's a real -- everyone connected to trump who has a friend who wants a pardon, they're hitting up trump, his assistant, his chief of staff, his counsel, pat cipollone who is in hot water with trump. i think there's a real sense that you're not going to get this pardon from joe biden. i'm sure people in those letters are talking about how much -- how they support trump so much and how they've long been a believer. people, when they get a pardon, they often put it framed at their front door so they can show their visitors, hey, i didn't do anything wrong. >> that's interesting. also what anne was talking about, about the style of these pardons and why that's so unusual. >> thanks so much to daniel and anne, we thank you for spending christmas eve with us. how two brothers who lost

their only remaining parent to covid are bravely fighting to stay together. stay together. stay with us.[ beeping ] tell that to the rain. [ beeping ] for those who were born to ride, there's progressive.

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question. what will happen to them? we found young people barely out of childhood themselves who had been catapulted into adulthood to take care of their siblings. >> i'm not a kid any more and i knew once this happened, i would be taking care of my brother. >> reporter: his 17-year-old brother e.j. is autistic and living with his mom in a shelter when she died, he took charge. >> we have been in foster care before and i know that i didn't want him to go back. >> reporter: a nonprofit agency in new york city that provides free support services to children in foster care referred kauson to a lawyer who helped him get custody of e.j. >> he would be separated from kasuon and really about to experience the holiday season potentially apart from his brother. the only family he has left. >> reporter: new york city officials say at least eight

children have been placed in foster care because their parents died from covid. statewide, a report found about 4,000 children lost their parents because of the virus with hundreds of thousands dead from the disease, the toll on families is profound. but official numbers don't exist. in tampa, 20-year-old johanna cardenas and her twin sister now care for their 14-year-old brother after their father died from covid. >> he was our only parent, our mom passed away six years ago. he raised us to be caring people and not to be selfish. that if someone else needs help, you help them. >> reporter: outside of detroit, iraqi immigrant 20-year-old nash gets help from a family friend caring for his 19 and 14-year-old sisters after both parents died of the virus. youngest sister nancy told our nbc affiliate in detroit what

she misses most about her parents. >> everything. everything. >> reporter: several area businesses along with local police are helping the family with christmas gifts and decorations. back in new york, the frizen brothers have a new commitment to each other. do you think you're doing what your mom and dad would want you to do? >> they always said me and e.j. would likely be together for the rest of our lives. i wouldn't leave this kid alone for anything in the world. >> do you feel your big brother is going to be with you always? >> nothing is going to separate us, nothing. >> reporter: facing the future alone together. for e.j. and kauson the new year will bring a new beginning starting with a bigger apartment starting in january. >> thank you so much for joining us and happy holidays. i'm morgan radford.

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hello and thank you for spending part of your christmas eve with us. i'm lindsey reiser at our msnbc headquarters in new york. president trump began his holiday vacation down in mar-a-lago today. leaving the chaos he's causing in washington behind. that now includes a laundry list of concerns over the fate of the emergency covid relief, vital funding for the military, a potential government shutdown and maybe even a