hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in the east. i'm jason johnson in for nicolle wallace. moments ago president-elect joe biden provided us all a reminder of what presidents usually sound like in moments of crisis. addressing the apparent suicide bombing that rocked downtown nashville on christmas day and the multiple national security threats facing our country. just weeks to go before he goes from president-elect to president. biden blasted the trump administration for dragging its feet of getting the team what it needs to be ready on day one. >> as our nation is in a period

of transition, we need to make sure that nothing is lost in the handoff. we've encountered roadblocks from the political leadership at the department of defense and the office of management and budget. right now we just aren't getting all the information that we need or the ongoing, outgoing -- from the outgoing administration in key national security areas. it's nothing short in my view of irresponsibility. >> trump's continuing refusal to acknowledge reality and do what every president has done before him and coordinate the transfer of power is just one of the many ways he's been acting as the chaos agent in chief. just yesterday trump finally backed down and signed the very same covid relief bill he threatened to veto for days. what looks like an attempt to save face, trump said in a statement he'll send a, quote, red line version of the bill back to congress, which is not a thing. and he also said that congress will, quote, focus strongly on his baseless voter fraud claims

which has no real legislative or legal meaning. just an hour or so the white house will vote on increasing stimulus payments from $600 a person to $2,000, what democrats have wanted for months and what trump began insisting on only last week even though his own treasury secretary negotiated the bill. each if the house votes for bigger relief cherks republicans are still not on board meaning that the proposal is likely to die in the senate. all that leaves trump exactly where he was last week. he could have designed the bill thursday, but instead it sat on his desk at mar-a-lago for days. while trump went golfing and rage tweeted about voter fraud. it does avoidster. up to 14 million people would have lost unemployment benefits, millions more would have lost eviction protection, things in limbo. his tantrum had real cost.

"the new york times" reports that people in most states are likely to lose at least a week of expanded benefits, a week, at a time when americans need every bit of help they can get. all this for what? as democrats and some republicans pointed out before trump caved, he manufactured a crisis to soothe his ego. >> but to play this old switcheroo game which is kind of like i don't get the point, i don't understand what's being done, why -- unless it's just to create chaos and show power and be upset because he lost the election. otherwise, i don't understand it. >> the president is just posturing. he recently suffered a malignant, narcissist's harm and continues to try to overturn the result, he continues to lose. now he's posturing to make himself -- it bring himself back as the hero of the american people. >> it is insane. it is really insane, and this president has got to finally do the right thing for the american

people and stop worry being his ego. >> a president-elect has already begun leading while the outgoing president doesing in but sow chaos is where we begin. our nbc news correspondent live in wilmington, delaware. "new york times" chief white house correspondent, peter baker, also with us. also associate editor for real clear politics and editor at large for the 19th. mike, i'll start with you. this is the question that i think is on every american's mind -- has joe biden just decided he has to get on the stage and grab the microphone because donald trump isn't doing anything? or was it already planned for him to give these kinds of speeches and talks to smooth the transition process? >> well, we've really been seeing this over the course of the entire year. i not the biden team especial -- i think the biden team especially at the onset of the pandemic saw the leadership vacuum and thought the best thing to get biden elected was to have what biden to do what he frankly was hoping to do all along which is act like the president. what we're seeing over the

course of the transition is reinforcing that. what we saw today i thought was especially interesting. i think it's the transition period really has been a reminder to all of us of the need to recalibrate our political thermometers. we've been covering an administration led by president trump for four years in which every challenge, real or perceived, is met with a sledgehammer, right. the president often talks about how he's a counter puncher and responds disproportionately to what's in front of him. biden, we've seen something very different over the course of the past month. there are moments where i think even democrats want to see the president-elect respond more effortsfully to issues like last week when president trump threatened to veto that covid relief bill. and biden simply offered a few brief comments in a speech that was on a different topic last week. this is a very clear exception. the fact that biden today spoke out as strongly as he did, calling this, as you heard, irresponsibility, that he's not getting the cooperation from career and political officials

at the pentagon that he feels like his team needs in order to be ready on day one, required a real raising of the political temperature, indeed, from biden. so we did hear a couple of weeks ago a member of biden's transition team talking about what he called the pockets of recalcitrance at the pentagon, standing in the way of the required cooperation. that didn't move the needle enough, and that's why we saw president-elect joe biden speaking out the way he did today. but it was also an opportunity for somebody in elected leadership in this country to speak out about what we saw in nashville. i think it's striking to this day having covered president obama during his vacations in hawaii, especially remember the christmas day underwear attempted bombing. that entire trip to hawaii, which was meant to be a little bit of r&r for obama and his team, was changed overnight with the need for daily briefings to have the president at the time speak directly to the country. we're not seeing that clearly from president trump down in florida at the moment, and that's why we heard it from

president-elect joe biden today in wilmington. >> and mike, a quick followup. you've got a lot of people on team biden who have been in previous administrations. obviously they're annoyed by what's been happening, but what is the level of frustration? is this throwing things at the wall angry that they can't get the keys to start their job? or do some of them feel like, you know, we've dealt with trump for four years, we can handle a couple more weeks? what's the level of sort of rage within there iin some incoming administration? >> reporter: i think with all due respect to the folks at like the commerce department, for instance, they're getting great levels of cooperation from the political and career officials there for their agents' review teams. they'll have a smooth transition. i not the fact that we're seeing -- i think the fact that we're seeing this at the pentagon specifically is causing genuine concern on the biden team. so that's the frustration you heard i think voiced by the president-elect today. but i think it's also important to note that these are folks who are going to go in and, yes, some people want to criticize that biden is bringing back so many former officials, but as he

put it in a conversation with washington columnists last week, you need to have people who know where the bodies might be buried to come and help find them. that's part of i think the reason why we're seeing former deputies, former career officials returning, because they're going to be necessary especially when you have the kind of unfortunate lapses in the transition we typically need to see at this point happening right now, jason. >> abie, let's look at congress now. later on this afternoon, the house is going to be voting. they're going to need a two-thirds vote, probably not going to go through because you've got opposition in house. from your perspectivive, is there any chance that there are going to be members of the house gop who say, look, i've got constituents suffering, it's the holiday season, i need vote for in relief bill that's going to offer people $2,000, or do you think there's still going to be resistance on the part of a lot of republicans in the house? >> it's a really strange place for them to be. they tend to want to go along

with president trump whenever they can, and it's -- it's been hard for them to even imagine overriding the veto on the national defense authorization. so it's -- when it comes down to these checks, you know, there's been resistance from republicans, but if he continues to press it, it will be interesting to see how much erosion there is in the opposition to it. lindsey graham was delightfully and supportingly tweeting out last night that of course congress is going to do this right away, promising -- the president for days on the golf course said he had had wins from the bill and there was a roeaso to sign it though not one word had been changed. >> there will be encouragement from people like lindsey graham about upping the amounts. i think they see that president trump is stuck on this too late in the game obviously, but he's willing to i think really punch the establishment with his

supporters and say look at these people not willing to help you, mitch mcconnell's not willing to help you but i am. i i'll be interested to see who breaks with that and wants to support president trump instead of finding fiscal rectitude which is what a lot of them are doing at the end of the trump presidency while forgetting it for these four years. >> yeah. i want to move to the senate and ask the same question. you have a large number of senators who said, hey, i don't want to spend money, this, that, the other. of course, they've been trying to navigate conflicting messages from president trump time and time again. what do you hear is going on in the senate right now? are senate republicans saying, look, we're already going to break about the electoral college, we need to break on this, are they getting pressure from purdue and lefler? what is going on -- and loeffler? what is going on with when the bill will eventually hit their desk? >> that's a great question. this is a moment of testing for the senate republicans. the choice to them is to

continue to be tethered to a president who is on the way out, who lost the election, who doesn't bother to show up for negotiations and only throws in a grenade after the fact and move on. i think what mitch mcconnell and his republican leadership would like to do is move on. they've got priorities of their own. they've got elections coming up, as you say. and you know, dealing with the whims of a mercurial, defeated president is not high on their list. we'll see whether or not what kind of deference they try to show him. they don't want to directly challenge him. they don't want to directly anger him. but they're not going to go along with it. they're not going to go along with it on this defense bill, doesn't look like they'll go along with him obviously on this covid relief bill. and i think that you're going to see, you know, in some way the test of what this post presidency is going to be like. you're going to have a situation here where republicans crafted a deal with democrats and with the administration, and all jumped off, you know, the plank at the same time, holding hands saying,

okay, we're in it together, only to have the president cut the plank from under them. now he's doing this outside as a former president at mar-a-lago. once again challenging them and their ability to decide for themselves how they plan to govern. i think these next few days are kind of a very interesting test. the senate republicans about not just what happens now but what's going to happen in the next months and years to come. >> peter, it is compelling to me. we constantly have this situation with trump where he's essentially the arsonist who keeps starting fires and then saying, hey, i'm the fireman, but then again i want to defund the fire department, and no one knows in the senate how to behave. when we look at what's going to be in the bill -- democrats saying, look, we want to make sure it's 2000, first president said $600 was measly, now $2,000 -- the real numbers, and i saw you tweet about this earlier. $600 is about three days' work for the average american. even $2,000 isn't that much. are they still arguing over something that's really not

going to material affect the lives of most americans? you know, out in the real world, how do we look at the idea of senators and congress people making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year arguing over $600 or $2,000? >> yeah. i mean, jason, what really strikes me in all of these stories about the pandemic relief packages and senators and members of congress haggling over $600 versus $1,200 versus $2,000 is to really hear the voices of everyday americans who are struggling and who need this lifeline of support from the federal government as they try to navigate a pandemic that they may never get sick from, but that frankly is definitely impacting them. from an economic standpoint. and they say in quote after quote they don't understand why congress can't make this happen. they don't -- they didn't understand why the president was stalling on, you know, signing that legislation that they needed, you know, the labor department is now going to be

working with states that are scrambling to get this unemployment -- to get these benefits out to residents in their respective states. and again, you've got the senate race in georgia, the senate runoffs that are absolutely being impacted by in pandemic because you had, you know, two incumbent senators, david perdue and kelly loeffler, who have been campaigning on this in the final days of the election, saying they have been delivering for georgie georgians who are h and making a direct connection between the policy and the stakes of the future balance of power in the senate. >> following up on that, errin, so are ossoff and warnock hitting on this relief biffle, really talking about, hey, these guys are trying to steal $2,000 out of your pocket that you paid for with your tax money, or more focused on local issues like

covid or lack of hospitals or other issues -- is this a real focus in this last week? >> well, it's twofold. it's definitely, you know, localizing the issues for georgians, making these races about the local issues that are priorities for georgia voters. it is also about the pandemic which is looming large over this entire country. and certainly looming large over georgia as this pandemic is surging anew in places including my home state. and you know, what ossoff and warnock have been saying is while georgians got sick, purdue and loeffler got rich during there pandemic and did not look out for georgians. that's been their narrative. as david perdue and kelly loeffler have trued to counter that saying they have been delivering, they have been looking out for small businesses and looking out for everyday georgians. and so you know, this is really going to come down to who voters believe. we've seen the turnout is a 2.1

million people who cast their ballots already in georgia, down a bit from the general election turnout. but black voters notably, their turnout is up since november. and so this could be, this pandemic issue could certainly be galvanizing the folks being disproportionately impacted from a public health and economic standpoint in squlgeorgia. >> a.b., trump lost a lot of support -- he didn't just lose the election, he's lost some from fox news, legislative leaders, and now the "new york post" asking him, ala elst, let it go, let it go, be done. do you think the relationship with new york media, is it finally sinking in that he needs to spend the last 20 or so days of his presidency maybe cleaning up his reputation, or do you think this is the republicans who are supporting him and the president himself are saying i'm going to fight this until

january 6th? >> donald trump is, you know, he absolutely has these sort of media icons in his mind, "time" magazine, the "new york post" that he grew up with and clings to in "60 minutes" and believes are important. this will embarrass him, there's no question. but he's impenetrable on the topics. there's not going to be shaming him into better behavior on his way out the door. he's going to continue burning things down. january 6th is an important day for this man. a television event, worldwide audience, where people are going to be fighting for him and really busting up our system of governance dictated by the constitution, just really burning it down in public on tv. it will be a scandal, and he's going to really need this event. he wants there to be protests outside, and he wants people in

congress, dutiful allies, in the senate and in the house, to be, quote, fighting for him on television. this is what he needs. we don't know what he's going to do after january 6th, but donald trump is not going to be shamed by an editorial in the "new york post" to be sure. >> a.b., as much as i have resisted all these years quote donald trump, january 6th will be the day when america officially says "you're fired." thank you all. when we come back, as we've been discussing, we are now just a week and a day away from the all-important georgia senate races. we'll get a closer look at the ground game going on there. and the very latest in the hunt for a possible motive for that christmas day bombing in nashville and why authorities are still hesitant to label this type of attack. plus, looking ahead to a post-holiday pandemic surge. december has been the deadliest month already. travel is peaking, and politicians are stirring the pot when it comes to getting the

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georgia is the most competitive battleground state in the united states. all eyes are on georgia, dekalb county. the whole country is watching georgia voters to see what we will do at this historic moment. >> jon ossoff there confirming what we all know, that all eyes of the political world have fallen on georgia. the president finally signing the covid relief package last night, it's no surprise that

both parties' campaigns in georgia are attempting to spin the decision. late last night, the state's two republican senators released a joint statement vowing to fight alongside the president who's leaving office, but made no mention of his previous request to increase stimulus checks to $2,000. meanwhile, the democrats are sounding the alarm, calling on supporters to raise more money in an effort to compete with their gop rivals with just over a week to go. joining us now is tia mitchell, reporter for "the atlanta journal constitution" who was at the rally earlier. great to speak with you. so i know that these rallies are difficult, right. there's social distancing, covid concerns. how big a turnout are they getting in dekalb county which is one of the areas where ossoff and warnock need enthusiasm? >> today's rally is targeted not only at black voters but at young black voters. there were rap performances, the mistress of ceremonies was lil wayne's daughter. and there was a pretty big

turnout. i would say a couple hundred cars and several hundred people. it's, as you noted, not like a republican rally where everyone's out and standing around where you can gauge crowd size. democrats like to do these driving rallies. so it's a lot of cars and people tune in on their radios to hear the audio. it was a pretty big turnout. i was at a different drive-in rally at a church, this was rap focused and focused on young poem w people was about twice the size. >> why does that not surprise me in the atl? one of the things that we hear a lot about, those of us not in georgia now, is the ridiculous amount of money being spent on the air campaign. ads sort of flying back and forth one way or another. when you're talking to people on the ground, when you're communicating with people, are the ads really having an impact? are they making people enthusiastic? or have they tuned that out because it's a week to go before the election and they decided what they were going do? >> i think people are tuning out the ads because they're kind of

over all the ads. there's been a -- it's oversaturated. i do think when people are listening and the messaging, it's helping people make the case for their candidates. i don't think it's changing a lot of minds. but the ads are reinforcing what each side feels about the candidate as well as what they feel about the opposition. and the goal of the ads is, again, to urge people to make sure they get out and vote. >> makes a lot of sense. thank you so much for speaking to us today. let's bring in julian castro, former hud secretary under obama, as well as the former mayor of san antonio. a great honor to speak to you. i have followed you, enjoyed your campaign, watching you. you were a part of many democratic candidates from the 2020 primary and democrats from across the country who have campaigned for warnock and ossoff. what did you see when you were down there, and what did you hope to accomplish by adding your name to the list of prominent democrats campaigning for them? >> yeah. it's great to be with you, jason. well, a couple of weeks ago i

was there in georgia in the atlanta area, then we went to the university of georgia there in athens and had a great event with students. what i saw above everything else was real enthusiasm for two great candidates for rafael warnock and jon ossoff, and also you could tell the people understand the stakes of this election. they understand if they're a working family, if they're a small business owner, that what happens on january 5th is going to impact the ability of joe biden and the house of representatives to work with the senate to get important things done for those working families, for those small business owners, for people who find themselves on the brink of eviction. you could just tell it wasn't just like any other senate race. that people understand how important this is. and you know, my hope and my belief is that that's going to translate into tremendous turnout for these two democratic

candidates. >> so you know, on the level of excitement, right, there have been several major senate campaigns in the last couple of years, the gems got excited, they got -- democrats got excited, they got excited about texas, south carolina, but georgia's different. georgia is a state that is growing. it's become in my view the new ohio, the new important swing state. one of the reasons for that is the large and growing aapi and latino population in the state. what's sort of the goal for latino turnout? when you speak to the organizations down there dedicated to turning out latino voters, what are the challenges and what are they looking forward to happening next tuesday? >> you're right about the state also. one way i would distinguish it from texas, my home state that i'm coming to you from, that we have great hopes for in cycles head, is that georgia's proven itself. it gave its electoral votes to joe biden. and largely on the turnout of african-americans, of the aapi

community, and of the latino community. we know there are over 370,000 latinos there in georgia who are eligible to vote, and about 250,000 were registered as of about a month ago. there have been massive efforts to try and register more folks before the registration deadline and to turn them out. what are some of the challenges to that? for a lot of folks, they haven't voted before. this is new. all of the challenges that we're seeing, as well, reaching out to folks during this covid time period, door knocking, for instance, isn't happening as much as it normally would if we weren't in a pandemic. money certainly is not an issue. we saw the record-breaking haul that ossoff and warnock had. any time you're talking to people who haven't made voting a habit that is a challenge. to their credit, both of these candidates are doing spanish-language media, they're reaching out to community groups

like galeo, probably the most established georgia latino elected official and community group there and others so that they can turn out people who don't normally get out in the latinx community. >> that's fantastic. you know, i have to ask while you're here, you have been a very, very loyal democrat. and despite i will say this in my opinion a bit of a snub at the democratic convention, you have been committed to the democratic party and working very, very hard. and i have to ask you, heading into the new administration, there's been a lot of criticism of the biden administration, whether they have been as diverse enough in their selections, whether they've picked enough latino americans, whether they've picked enough african-americans. as one who is a part of a diverse administration under obama, what kind of things and what kinds of people would you like to see joe biden looking to to bring into this administration so it reflects the coalition that actually got him elected? >> you know, i think he's made some great selections. and just within the latino

community, you take folks like javier becerra and mr. myorcas. still has not appointed a latina. i hope that oversight will be addressed. tremendous i think talent in terms of the african-american community. i do think that the aapi community needs to be better represented. it was historic to see congresswoman halland to be nominated interior secretary. it was unconscionable that there had never been and until she's appointed there will not have been an appointed cabinet member who is native american. all of that is good. it's also still a work in progress. you have to balance i think people who have been around washington for a long time with fresh, new voices, that can add the kind of perspective that will give some dynamism i think and a new direction to the years

ahead. and i have confidence, though, in vice president biden and will in vice president-to be kamala harris, i think they understand that. and donald trump four years ago told people that he was going to surround himself with the best people, the most talented people. and that turned out not to be true. that was quite a lie. in fact, it was the opposite. fortunately i think president-elect joe biden and vice president-elect harris are going to surround themselves because we have evidence of this with some of the most talented, best public servants who have a strong vision that is inclusive and is going to make sure that even the most vulnerable communities out there are well served. and we need that because we're in an emergency right now with covid-19. >> since we're talking about the best people, i have to ask -- if you get that call, would you join this new administration? you've already served -- you were clearly a better hud secretary than dr. ben carson. would you be willing to be part

of the new administration? >> you know, i haven't put anything on the table, and i hadn't taken anything off the table. of course i would take the call if i received one. it was the honor of my lifetime to serve president obama as hud secretary, and i know that this next administration is going to do a tremendous job for the people that all of us care about. of course i would have that conversation. but i also know that, you know, whatever happens with me that vice president-elect harris and president-elect joe biden are going to have a great team that will much better serve america than what we've had over the last four years. and that's what's important. you know, that people who urgently need help right now get that help. if i could just say, jason, one last thing -- you know, with these georgia senate runoffs, what we need is not divided squabbling government. what we need is for joe biden to have a house of representatives and a senate that he can

actually work with, people growing in the same direction. so anybody watching georgia, if you're on the bubble and you are one of those swing voters, although i know there are less and less these days, we're in an emergency. we're in a crisis. what you need right now is not squabbling and divided government. you actually need to give joe biden partners that he can work with to get things done for you and your family. and i hope the georgians will respond to that. >> i hope they do. i had hoped they would respond to your message. julian castro, thank you so very much for spending time with us today. >> thank you. up next, new information in the search for answers around the christmas day explosion in nashville. the christmas day explosion in nashville.

we very well might see a post seasonal in the sense of christmas, new year's surge. and as i've described it, as a surge upon a surge. if you look at the slope, the incline of cases that we've experienced as we've gone into the late fall and soon to be early winter, it is really troubling. i share the concern of president-elect joe biden that as we get into the next few weeks it might get worse. >> dr. fauci's warning this week of what's to come agreeing with president-elect joe biden that our darkest days might still be ahead of us. with more americans traveling now than since the start of this pandemic. the tsa says it screened more

than 1.2 million travelers just yesterday. the most since march 15th. even as we average more than 1 8,000 new infections -- 188,000 new infections and more than 2,200 fatalities per day, 2,200 per they. more than 334,000 americans have died so far. more than 63,000 of them just since december 1st, making this month the deadliest yet of the pandemic. joining us now is dr. vin gupa, health policy exert and msnbc news contributor. it just seems clear people report listeni-- people aren't listening. when 1.2 million people went through the tsa, people aren't listening. what do we have to tell the public to get people to stay home, shelter in place, and wear masks? >> good afternoon, thank you for having me. you know, it's an important question, a question i've been wrestling with the last nine

months. how do we reach people who think, unfortunately, that they are protected, that their family is protected, it's everyone else that's at risk. and it's that thinking that i've seen as an icu doc really befall families and cause people to end up in the icu, who get unwittingly exposed to the virus because a family member may have traveled for thanksgiving, for example. that is the take-home message i want every one of your viewers to really keep in on here is if you've traveled for christmas, if you're traveling for new year's and we can't convince you otherwise, what happens, what's most devastating here is the unwitting transfer of this virus from yourself, if you're healthy, if you travel, if you're well, to, say, a loved one who wouldn't have a good outcome if they're exposed to the virus. i've seen this play out time and again. i've heard it from colleagues. it's this unfortunate part of this virus where a lot of people get it are asymptomatic, feel

otherwise well, but they can transmit to a loved one in a household setting. that loved one unfortunately ends up in the icu. people need to take note of this. it can happen to your loved one. no one's protected. >> do we have any sociology, dr. gupta, on change and behavior? obviously we've seen people traveling more. are people more inclined to wear masks or be careful if someone in their family has been infe infected, or are people still believing i guess that was uncle rick or sally, i can still go to my public gym? are behaviors changing once people have been directly affected by the pandemic? >> well, i only have anecdotal evidence of that. and the answer is absolutely. i have only -- i've seen amongst the individuals i know, the selection bias because i generally only interact with individuals who i'm either caring for, family members i'm caring -- loved one i'm caring for, people who reach out seeking help. what i've noticed there is absolutely a sea change.

whereas previously say a few months ago when the virus was not touching these individuals, maybe there was more cavalier attitude toward masking or the type of masks, say, an individual would wear. or when it came to distancing or potentially holiday travel, that shifted once the virus at home, absolutely i've noticed that. and so what we're trying to do here in terms of public health messaging is not having everyone learn the hard way. this -- one of the difficult pieces here is continued misinformation. this notion here that the vaccine is going to save us from the worst of this pandemic which we know is in the coming months. it's not going to save us. my colleagues at the institute for health metrics and evaluation at the university of washington, we've been modeling this out. we know that the vaccine really is not going to start to impact the course of this pandemic until -- until early april. so up until then, it's still vigilance. only travel when absolutely necessary which is, frankly, right now, no travel. unless it's emergent.

and we can define what is emergent and what's not. no travel. obviously masking, face shielding if you're 55 and older, in my personal opinion, each going to the grocery store, distancing at all costs. avoiding indoor gatherings of any type. these are the things that we need to be thinking about, disaster mindset right now, to your point we're losing up to 3,000 americans a day, in some cases 3,500. this is no time to be cavalier. >> and dr. gupta, when it comes to as you mentioned before misinformation and cavalier, i have to bring up your tweet response to senator marco rubio. marco rubio said, oh, it appears that, you know, elites think that regular people aren't willing to make the right decision. you responded to that and shut him down. i wish i could play a music beat behind it by how strong your words were. can you tell me how frustrating it must be for you as a doctor to have to shut down misinformation from elected officials, many of whom already have access to the vaccine. >> well, he was wrong for saying

that. pointblank he was wrong. he has a platform. people trust senator rubio. and what i fear he's doing is i've seen from a few of his colleagues is distorting the concept of personal freedom. and talking about personal freedom in ways which are adversarial to what scientists and public health experts are saying. listen, all we want is for people to think about personal freedom in the following terms, jason -- that it's the ability to live a long and healthy and prosperous life. over the long term. does that mean there's going to be some scientific uncertainty, does that mean that we're going to learn as we go and guidance might change in terms of what's our herd immunity threshold, maybe. maybe it goes from 75% to 80%. these are in the long spectrum, in the course of one's life. these are minor decisions, minor discussions here to be had. he is making a mountain out of these issues, he's trying to divide us, not unite us. we need senator rubio, senator

cruz, senator paul, people with platforms who are unfortunately distorting science as this -- this weapon against personal freedom, and we should be actually saying, listen, let's arm ourselves with the best information, let aep's make sur we're keeping ourselves self, and it's okay, to accept some degree of uncertainty as we learn more. they should be proponents but are getting people riled up. >> public health cannot come at the sense of personal freedom and they shouldn't be conflating the two. dr. vin gupta, thank you so much for spending time with us today. up next, investigators are on the hunt for the motive behind this weekend's bombing in nashville. we'll have the latest. l have th. two medical societies have strongly recommended to doctors

to treat acute, non-low back muscle and joint pain with topical nsaids first. a formulation they recommend can be found in salonpas. a formulation they recommend can be found in salonpas. salonpas. it's good medicine. hisamitsu. the best way to find motive is to talk to the individual. we will not be able to do that in this case. and so a lot of it will be what we can gather through interviews. and ultimately what the evidence will point us toward, but we're -- we may never find out the exact reasoning behind the activity that took place. >> investigators still continuing to search for why 63-year-old anthony quinn warner bombed downtown nashville early christmas morning. authorities say that calls from the public were key to identifying warner as a suspect who died in the explosion they believe he set off from his parked rv. tips helping investigators quickly matched dna found at the

blast site to a glove and a hat found at a vehicle owned by warner. authorities now turning to the complicated task of piecing together his motive behind the explosion which they say could take weeks. joining us now is former atf special agent in charge and msnbc law enforcement analyst jim cavanaugh, he also lives in nashville. jim, i want to say it's great to speak to you. i've read some of your work. you're a great writer in hate watch. a version of ray from "justified." glad to have you on each though it's under sad circumstances. i have to know what is the process of figuring out what someone's motivation could be for this action? usually we're dependent on face folk or manifesto, do they think there might be anything like that for mr. warner? >> well, i think they will find something like that, jason, and also i'm a fan of your commentary, by the way. i love to listen to all your commentary on m.s. >> thank you. >> i think they will find the

reason and up to maybe 90%. it's certainly going to be blurred somewhat in this guy's mind. your question is spot on. how do you determine a motive when the person is deceased? well, first you look at the actions, you you look at the crime itself, the manufacturer of the bomb, the time and purpose intent and money spent and effort put in. giving away his possessions his real estate. this is a lot of planning for this guy. he's not going to let us go in the dark without letting us know what happened. and where does he go with this bomb. he could go anywhere in this vehicle. anywhere in the city or the county. but he drives next to the at&t building and in the last video released today by nashville police you could see he parked it right on the curb side in front of the at&t, used to be bellsouth building where his father used to work. so there is some motive in here, jason, i think that will surround his personal issues and

maybe his conspiracy mind and it may not be satisfying completely to us, but i think he will send a letter to someone or left someone for authorities to come. look, he's going to know he's going to be blown up and agents are going to his house and so he could have left something there that said, i'm mad at the phone company or somebody done me wrong. he's choking on an empty grudge. and give some kind of reason and some of it may be consoluted and not very satisfying but it is the reason. >> so, jim, speaking of satisfaction, there is a lot of people in this country, especially african-americans and many muslim americans are like, look, if this is a 63-year-old muslim american, we would be calling this terrorism and attacking black lives matter. i understand how this could be a suicide bombing. what is the reason for not calling this terrorism and is

there a racial component to that and when might we get that description of his actions? >> well, i think they're justified in those feeling because the communities are under attack. any time some terrorist does something, everybody is pointing a finger at a muslim or some minority group did something, they're pointing their fingers at them. so this is a justifiable reason to feel that way. but lawmaker has to act to not make them feel that way. to be reasonable and call things terrorism that are terrorism under the law. this is terrifying. to have a bomb go off. and i've worked many criminal bombings and a lot of them hate bombings and wanting to kill and destroy people but they didn't fit the legal definition of terrorism which is to influence a civilian population or the conduct of government to try to affect the government or affect -- put fear in civilian population for some political

purpose. if this guy's motivation is, hey, i'm angry at this company because they done me wrong or they did my dad wrong or -- or they -- >> they cut off my phone. >> yeah, or they sent microwave out, it would be more in line with a criminal bombing and you won't be able to prosecute it under a federal statute and this guy is dead as julius caesar and he will be quickly forgotten except for people like us that are in the business and who will remember is the six brave cops and all of those citizens down there who are going to get tough and stand up and get their businesses back. so we'll forget about this guy. and in nashville we remember people with talent. we won't remember this guy. >> that is good to know. and i've seen and tweeted with the hashtag nashville strong. i want to move this out of the state into what we've seen in oregon and kenosha, what we've

seen in minneapolis, with the proud boys in washington, d.c. there is a rise in domestic terrorism usually driven by white nationalists or ideology and that is a major issue for the incoming administration. what does the incoming biden an harris administration, what do they need to do to address these issues. because it is common sense to these groups will be more aggressive once donald trump is finally out of office? >> right. well they get so much energy from political leaders who stand up their lies and take their truck and like trump has done. he's put out this lie on the election that it is fraudulent. that is going to -- a complete fabricated lie conspiracy theory, coming from complete fabricated conspiracy theorists and "the washington post" has done some great stories in the last couple of weeks on covering the sources for trump's attorney

sidney powell, who those sources are, they're complete loons and putting this out. and that disinformation campaign gives these groups like the proud boys and their ilk, which spews back to neo-nazis and militia men, strength and power. we're working with the president. we're working for the president. and of course the congressman that support it, that are apologizing for it. well it could be and maybe so, they're trying to be the biggest tinfoil hat wearer on capitol hill. used to be those people would be laughed out like joe mccarthy. now we have all of these people want to be joe mccarthy or even worse. that they're giving these -- this disinformation, the lies, the falsehoods traction. it is a shame to do and it is hurtful to democracy and we need truth and we need facts. it is okay to to have policy on the either side of the political

aisle, and you're a expert and i'm not. but it doesn't matter, those all could make the country better. but when you're crazy, and you're a loon, and you're spouting out lunacy, nobody should give that truck. and that is what gives these groups power. so the biden administration has to take that disinformation campaign inside of the government, in the government. >> and shut it town. we can't speak about these issues enoughm the next hour of "deadline: white house" continues with jonathan capehart right after this quick break. right after this quick break e of doing what's right, not what's easy. so when a hailstorm hit, usaa reached out before he could even inspect the damage. that's how you do it right. usaa insurance is made just the way martin's family needs it with hassle-free claims, he got paid before his neighbor even got started. because doing right by our members, that's what's right.

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the reality is there is no impetuous to overthrow an election even if you want to. it is a scam. it is going to disappoint people that believe this election was stolen an thinking this an opportunity to change it. we talk about the constitution, we have to follow it and i'm sorry that f -- that f that accident mean the outcome that you want. >> i'm jonathan capehart in for nicolle wallace. a president out of the door is cheering for one coup is how one puts the kurpts state of our leadership. it was trump's usual media advocate, the new york post, which is in a stunning editorial pans false claims of election fraud and have republican members of congress challenge the electoral college next week. the new york post pleads, stop the insanity. and writes, quote, we understand

mr. president trump that you're angry that you lost but to continue down this road is ruinous. we offer this as a newspaper that endorsed you. that supported you. if you want to cement your influence, even set the stage for a future return, you must channel your fury into something more productive. if you threaten to burn it down, that is how you will be remembered as the anarchist holding the match. that mentality on full display this past week when trump threatened not to sign the $900 billion coronavirus relief package his own aides had negotiated. trump insisted on increasing the $600 payments for americans to $2,000, something his own parties had opposed. it and it culminated last night when he signed the package

without getting anything in return. a move politico summed up this way, quote, trump got taken to the cleaners. what a bizarre, embarrassing episode for the president. the house is expected to vote on increasing the covid relief checks to 2,0$2,000 soon and we keep an eye out on that vote for you. sam stein in the daily beast writes he's dragging his own party down with him, quote, the past few days have struck insiders as shocking for the destructiveness. trump has attacked senate leader mitch mcconnell for conceding joe biden as president-elect, he's threatened to primary jonathan thune for not going along with efforts to block the election certification. he drove off attorney bill barr for not doing enough to tilt the election with department resources. most recently he took a torch to a covid relief bill negotiated by his own treasury secretary and threatened not to sign a government funding bill for provisions that largely matched

the requests his own budget office made. and to those who have complains that his behavior has been erratic and deeply problematic, he's extending two giant middle fingers. i don't care he said in the past two days according to people familiar with the matter, instead, trump has accused his gop stalwart of not doing enough for him, the sources said. a president in his final days of power with seemingly no other strategy than sticking it to everyone he believes wronged him is where we start this hour with our favorite reports and friends. jonathan la meyer from the associated press and political analyst is here. also with us, olivia troy, who worked in the trump administration until august on the coronavirus task force as an adviser to vice president mike pence as well as an adviser on homeland security and counter-terrorism.

she's now a contributor to the anti-trumpism group defending democracy together. and of course sam stein, politics editor for the daily beast and msnbc contributor whose byline is on the piece we just quoted, thank you all very much for being here. sam, i have to ask you, are people seriously still surprised by how destructive president trump is being and behaving in the final days of his administration? >> so, the answer to that question is yes, which is surprising in its own right. >> yeah. >> but the level of destructiveness that trump has brought, the lengths to which he's flirting to go, have caught loyal advisers off gord. we're talking about the sidney powell and impounding voting machines and pushing to not

certify the election results. pushing potentially endorsing martial law to redo the election in key swing states. these are measures that are so far beyond lower case "d" democracy. trump is not giving a hearing, he wants to hear it out. he wants to consider the case but not like he's embracing it. but even that fact, that he's hearing it out, that these people are on the white house premises talking to him about it has appalled some people. and the destructiveness has always been there in his presidency but the idea he would blow up potentially the covid relief bill and risk a government shutdown toward the end of the presidency, he did sign the bill but what was point of that. we knew where it would end. but in the end he ends up causing damage to his party and he potentially risked getting the benefits out to needy people

right around the holiday break. so, yeah, on one hand we shouldn't be surprised that he's made this drama filled final weeks of his office, on the other hand i think the extent of the drama is catching people off guard. >> well, jonathan lemire, on the temper tantrum over the covid relief bill, i'm going to charitable and use the word strategy. but was there any strategy here. was what the purpose of what we just witnessed, what we've been through. >> there is rarely strategy. it is almost always impulse. and a lack of care frankly, about how it would -- the bind it would place his fellow republicans in. also certainly no thought that he's not adequately repaying their loyalty. in fact, this is fueled by his anger. that he believes not enough republicans were defending him,

have been out there fighting for him in his efforts to overturn the election. we saw his wrath at senator thune and gone after mitch mcconnell, how dare he, acknowledge that vice president biden is now president-elect biden. he is, of course, trying to stoke talk of january 6th, the day this the electoral college will certify in congress trying to get both republicans in the house and senate to oebts to it. to muddy that process up even further and calling his supporters to come to washington. which is raised real alarm. amo among some who feel there could be potential for violence and demonstrations that could grow unruly in the nation's capitol. there was no impulse here. this is an effort to -- it was all impulse here. it is an effort to gather attention and keep the focus on him. to also burnish his populous credentials, to try to push for the $2,000 figure even though that was going to make life

difficult for members of the gop and had no kans of passing but the thought was he and his very small circle of advisers thought it would look good for this president that he was going to bat for the forgotten american and potentially set himself up for whatever is next, the next move, whether politics making money or a potential 2024 run. >> olivia, i want to pick up on something jonathan lemire just mentioned and that is the january 6th and the plan for protests here in washington, protests that the president himself is even tweeting about encouraging people to come to washington to attend. and the fear of violence. and in the final days of his administration, whatever happens is going to play on his legacy. i'm just wondering from your perspective, how does -- how do these last few days and what could happen on january 6th, how will that play into trump's

legacy? >> well, you know, i'm actually very concerned that there will be violence on january 6th. because the president himself is encouraging it. this is what he does. he tweets, he incites is and he gets followers and supporters to behave in this manner and they believe they are being patriots because their supporting the president. this is a president who calls himself the president of law and order. and we have seen anything but that. we have a bombing on christmas day. we've had protests in the streets. this is all out of control, the divisiveness is through the ceiling because of this man who continues to stoke the flames of these far right people who show up and think that he's calling out to them. and so if that is the legacy that he wants, he certainly has it. and it will follow him. i think for the rest of his tenure and the rest of his career and whenever he moves on.

and i hear because i know he will be out there undermining the biden administration and continue to push this rhetoric which is very dangerous to our country. >> and the significance of january 6th is that is when the electoral college is going to meet. and talk about the people coming. coming to washington, these are people who are loyal to the president. but sam, loyalty is not a two-way street when it comes to president trump. it is one way. and president trump wants loyalty to come to him. i want to read something that you wrote quoting sam nunberg where you say where he couldn't explain -- you write, he couldn't explain why it was that people are drawn to trump knowing the damage he will cause them. some, he suspected, wanted the proximity of power. others believe they could shape him. many see money to be made from it. but much of it was a mystery.

and even sam writes to go on to tell you in the piece that you wrote, that he had his own mix-ups, his family with trump, and yet he went and worked for him. why do -- what is it, do you think, drives people to be loyal to someone, who we have seen time and time again not return the loyalty in kind? >> well, the reason he wanted to talk to sam nunberg to that piece was to get an answer to that question. he was a former trump campaign aide and fired on a number of different occasions. came back and then got fired again. and i wanted to ask him the question, what is it? we have years and years of data at this point showing the trump loyalty is in deed a one-way street so why do people flock to him or why do law enforcements

-- why do lawmakers attend to him. and a lot of commentators when will the republicans stand up to trump and on very few occasions they don't, on very few occasions i should say. sam's point which is valid one which is when you have power, which trump does have, obviously, you could draw people towards you. you could force or compel people to make sacrifices in principle and philosophy and compel people to do things they couldn't imagine could be done and it is only when they are burned by it or they succumb to it that they recognize the sacrifices that they've made. at the end of the trump years are a of people who are no longer in the orbit saying mia culpa, my fault, i shouldn't have done it or try to make

amends for it and atone for it and some people who will never do that but privately recognize that serious sacrifices were made. that doesn't account for why people continue to go towards him except for the fact that power is a real after or debrisy ac. people think they could shape him or they want the access to that power for their own personal benefits. >> and sam, do you think that even with him out of the white house that he will still have that power? at least that power over the republican party? >> well, i think the better question is does trump think he will still have that power and i think what he's been -- doing in the past couple of week is the question. which is he trying to create a power structure that could outlast his presidency or consider as base for a future presidential run. is what he's going to do now is showing other republicans that he will be a force when not in elected office, is he laying the predicate for running in 2024.

is he announcing, an attempt to shield himself political from what a joe biden justice department could do. i think trump certainly recognizes limitations that come when you no longer have access to power. he's been like this when his businesses imploded and he built himself back up. and jonathan maybe knows more from direct reporting, that he fears the idea of not being able to hold power and hold people in line and that is guiding what is he is doing right now. >> on january 6th, that is the moment whether it is official and the electoral college vote will be certified but that is not stopping republicans on capitol hill from trying to stop that certification from happening. there is word today that congressman louie gohmert is suing vice president pence to

get him to bring in another slate of electors. one, talk about this, about this lawsuit and whether it is going to go anywhere. and what we can expect from republicans on january 6th? >> it seems highly unlikely that lawsuit will go anywhere. it is basically suing the sitting vice president to have your own coup. i doubt that will find much way of success. but it is going to show the lengths that some of the president's allies will go in order to try to either keep him in power or at least show that their trying. and i think that is connected to sam's question here about the power that president trump still has, the power that he's concerned whether he will still have but also it is about relevance. donald trump before president trump was obsessed with being in the media spotlight and the tabloids in new york and since

entering the political arena he dictated news chryons and count down until how long it would take before a cable network picked tha picked up that tweet and ran with it. he's afraid of losing that sort of power, is at the heart of what he's doing. and he knows he needs to make some money. as documented, he's in some debt. he'd be looking to monetize his career and in 2024, the plan is to keep that open. whether he declares or whether he declares or not, he's going to flirt with it for a while. he won't bow out. he likes the idea of minimum of playing king maker of getting people to talk about him and what we're seeing now is republicans on january 6th, some from the house, perhaps a senator like tommy tuberville, who will raise objections to the slate of electors and therefore

plunge the process temporarily into chaos. joe biden is going to be president as of noon on january 20th but it seems that donald trump will make things as messy as possible for him on his way out of the door. and an effort to keep his name in the headlines with that relevance in the weeks and months ahead. >> you know, olivia, as i look at names of the republicans who have met with president trump and vice president pence last week to discuss challenging the electoral college, congressman matt gaetz, gohmert and congressman jim jordan of ohio and andy bigs of arizona, marjorie taylor green of georgia, i'm looking at this and given your counter-terrorism background and the organization that your with, defending democracy together, your view on sitting members of congress and an incoming member of congress who are doing their level best

to overturn the will of the american people. and what that says to the rest of the world about how stable the united states is. >> well, first, i think it sends a negative and terrible message internationally about where we are ats a country. that we have sitting people who have been democratically elected actually actively trying to undermine a presidential election. i mean, this is unheard of here domestically and it is very unfortunate. but when i look at the people that you just listed, i think of these are the current stars so to speak of the republican party. and if that is the case, i think the republican party has a lot of soul searching to do right now and in the fact that they've continued to enable the situation and these congressional people are meeting and trying to actually actively do something on january 6th and i think that this is a complete disgrace and fundamentally, it

is wrong. it doesn't stand for the american values. this isn't actually traditional conservatism, this is trumpism. and these are checked out from reality. >> olivia troy, jonathan lemire and sam stein thanks for starting us off this hour. right now the house of representatives is voting on whether to increase the size of individual covid stimulus checks to $2,000. president trump called for bigger checks after his team reached a deal with congress for $600 checks. and that demand nearly derailed the entire stimulus package. today's vote is forcing republicans to decide between approving the higher amount or defying the president. we'll keep an eye on that vote. when we return, president-elect joe biden blasts the trump administration for putting up road blocks during the transition. it could be a sign of what is to come for biden who said he is ready for the punches that republicans will throw his way once he takes office. plus, the search for a

motive in the nashville bombing. officials say they know who is responsible for the blast. but they still don't know why. and with covid-19 vaccines off to a slower than expected start how long will it take before life begins to look like it did before the pandemic. "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. so don't ngo anywhere. the sugar you don't. [grunting noise] i'll take that. woohoo! 30 grams of protein and 1 gram of sugar. ensure max protein. with nutrients to support immune health.

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my team needs a clear picture of our posture around the world and our operations to deter our enemies. we've encountered road blocks from the political leadership at the department of defense and

the office of management and budget. right now we just aren't getting all of the information that we need for the outgoing -- from the outgoing administration in key national security areas. it is nothing short in my view of irresponsibility. >> president-elect joe biden won't be sworn in for another three weeks and already he faces a great deal of obstruction on the part of his political opponents inside of the trump administration. biden has been adam ant since day one of his campaign that he'll seek to reach across the aisle to work with republicans on solutions. but given what we're already seeing, is the olive branch approach even possible . the president-elect told me, quote, i haven't changed how i approach politics since i got involved. and part of it is just establishing with your opponents that if they want to play, i'm ready to fight. but one of the things that happens is when you get into one of those kinds of blood matches,

nothing gets done. nothing gets done. joining us now is the reverend al sharpton host of politics nation and president of the national network and msnbc political analysis. thank you both for being here. when i asked joe biden that question about olive branches of working with republicans, i quoted mike tyson to him where mike tyson famously said, everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. and he pushed back hard on me and if i was the one who punched him in the mouth but he was convincing in trying to convince me and the rest of us on that call that he knows the punches are coming and he will be ready when they come. my question to you is, do you believe that he's ready? >> the same kind of exchange happened in some ways when he

let virtually with the seven national civil rights group, representing the action network, saying as we deal with the issues of criminal justice and other concerns, you're going to get push back and we need to fight and you've been saying publicly about reaching out and reaching out to people that are opposed to things like police reform, like mass incarceration and all. and he had the same attitude that i'm prepared to stand my ground in so many words. i think that joe biden has in many instances in the past been able to reach across the aisle in the senate and as vice president he and president obama were able to get some things done and was not that often bending on many things but finding mid ground. but i think that what he cannot estimate, he being president-elect biden, is you're

dealing with a different kind of seal in this republican party now that has been put in by donald trump and fired up their base where many of them are afraid of their base that will not let them reach back across the aisle because they've become captive by a charismatic con man that has now captured party and arrested them in place and you're not dealing with people that are talking about healing, you're dealing with people that want to just hold where they are and have nothing even appearing like they're dealing with people across the aisle, less alone dealing with the citizenship that is diverse and has interests that have been treated unfairly. >> elise, do you think president-elect joe biden is being naive? and i ask that question because the washington that he's about

to inherit is a whole lot different from the washington he left four years ago as vice president and certainly completely different from the washington that he lived in when he was the senator from delaware. >> i think that president-elect biden is right to be optimistic about what his presidency can accomplish and to publicly project this kind of optimism. but i do think that it is going to be incredibly hard to make a dent in just the rancor of this political moment. you, right now, have a political party that has essentially turned into a cult movement. you have representatives throwing out crazy lawsuits like the one today to try to sue vice president pence to not, you know, let joe biden be president. it is just absolutely insanity.

we've gone -- trump has such control over the base of the party and the question is does that continue? i think it does. i think it is donald trump's party now and we've seen with all of just the -- antics isn't a strong enough word but just all of the absolute insanity and the republicans that have gone along with it, it makes me think it is going to be incredibly difficult for joe biden to make end roads in that kind of environment. >> elise, let's keep going on this. because i'm wondering then, how does president-elect joe biden, then president joe biden, huh does he navigate that republican party and this washington that we're talking about? >> joe biden won the nomination. i didn't think that he would win the democratic party nomination so let's hope that he's right and what he told you and you recounted in our excellent

column that he knows and understands the political climate better than we're all pontiff kating right now. so hopefully there is some way for him to capture the mood of the country to at least get something done. infrastructure perhaps making end roads there. in some of the cross cutting issues that perhaps he can capture some political momentum simply by putting a dent into congress's stagnation and trying to move the ball forward. >> rev, do you think president-elect biden could do it? >> i think that he is right to try. i think that he is right to project that he wants to be a healer, but he must have some things that are nonnegotiable and must not sacrifice the reasons people voted for. they wanted a healer but a

healer that maintains things like affordable care act, that maintains police reform and maintains the direction that he talked about and promised and he must realistically deal with the fact that the republican party has become the trump party and their brand is that is us against them. that we're not giving anything to them. and he's going to have to deal with people who feel their very existence is based on how they could in many ways stop him from doing anything but failing. and he must be realistic about it. now, i don't think he should be opposing as one that is unreasonable. i think his posture is right but i think he ought to know that he's playing against people whose posture is the exact opposite of that and he's got to be prepared to fight and be immovable on what his values and his administration will stand for. >> rev and elise, in the time

that we have left, when joe biden announces his campaign, the focus was charlottesville and the message of his campaign throughout has always been about bringing the country together. uniting the country that is clearly divided. each of you, elise, i'll start with you, what specifically can a president biden do to send the signal or to actually start the process of bringing the country together, of healing? >> oh, that is a tough one. i think more of what he has been doing and not upsetting the apple cart and i think that it is very difficult to, you know -- i don't know how one would -- i will admit, i'm quite frankly baffled by this conundrum, jonathan and i don't know what i would recommend. >> that is the perfect word. reveren

reverend al? >> well the first thing you have to do in order to be in a position to heal is you have to have a diagnosis of what the illness is. what are you healing from? and i think that the only way you could have unity around healing is we have to have unity around what it is that we're healing. and if you're dealing with people that do not see the illness of systemic racism, of people not having health care, of people not being able to have a level of wages that could sustain their family, if they do not see that is a sickness, you can't unite them around healing. if you go in an operation room with surgeons and all of surgeons z surgeons disagree on what the operation is for, the person laying in the bed, the patient dies while the surgeons are arguing. we need unity, we need unity to go around what is wrong with the patient. other wise we'll be standing

over the patient arguing and fighting and that is what donald trump's followers will try to do in he's not careful. >> and with that, we'll have to leave it there. >> and jonathan. >> real quick. >> hopefully just not make it more of a cultural battle because right now trump voters are voting against what they see as the other, as more so than even any polesy stances and if we could tone down and quell the cultural battle, that would be good. >> thank you. when we return, new details as investigators try to find a motive for the bombing in nashville on christmas morning. "deadline: white house" tips after a quick break. (kids laughing) (dog barking) ♪ sanctuary music

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federal and local investigators are continuing to comb through the site of an explosion that rocked downtown nashville. the blast happened after an rv parked overnight in the area rigged with explosives blared music and a warning to residents early christmas morning. authorities are still looking for the motive behind the explosion that injured three and damaged 41 buildings and knocked out 911 services in the region. however, little is known about the suspect. a 64-year-old i.t. specialist who authorities say died in the explosion. let's bring in nbc news correspondent shaquille brewster live in nashville.

the curfew has been lifted in the area. what is latest on the investigation? >> reporter: ryour right. the curfew has been lifted or modified. so that street where the blast occurred is still blocked off. fbi and atf are working there but some of the perimeter is beginning to shrink. look at the video in the past few hours this afternoon. you see it, it is from a distance. we're still not allowed to get um close to it. but you see some of the agents going through picking up the pieces, going through and processing that original blast scene. we were told by the director of the texas bureau of investigations they're crawling in hands on knees picking up each individual piece from the blast site. so it is incredible work at the blast site. as they're still processing the scene, the attention is shifting to figure out why. trying to figure out the motive of this bomber.

why did he decide to attack downtown nashville. you know, one thing that we've heard from not only the state investigators but the federal bureau of investigation, we're hearing from officials caution. this is still early in the process and we may not know the answer to that for weeks at a time, if we ever truly get the answer to that. but that won't be for a lack of trying. these investigators are going through having interviews with the suspect's family, they say his mother has been cooperative, they're trying to see if though know any associates, anyone who is interacted with him to see if they could have any information, any clips, any tips or clues that could give them some insight into his possible motive. one thing that you're hearing from officials is that public information has been crucial to even getting to the point where we know a suspect. listen to a little bit about what the director of the tennessee bureau of investigation told us about how crucial those tips have been. >> we're able to go to locations to collect additional forensic

evidence, to test for dna, that dna evidence was then matched, compared and it was matched by our forensic scientist. and its with a strong effort. they were focused solely on this case. and were able to do an excellent job. >> reporter: so matching that physical evidence that investigators have been picking up from the scene to what has been called in in the tips. they're saying that is the magic sauce so to speak and asking for more tips to come in. anybody who knows, the fbi is asking that you reach out to them. >> shaquille brewster, thank you. when we return, a nightmare scenario in parts of california where icus are filled to capacity as cases of coronavirus continue to surge. continue to surge.

december is now the deadliest month of this pandemic. as an average of 2,200 americans still die from covid-19 every day. more than 334,000 have lost their lives so far. and more than 19 million have now tested positive. more than 1 million new cases identified since just this time one week ago. in california, our nation's current epicenter, the situation is overwhelming and hospitalizations in los angeles county are expected to double by the end of the week. hospitals there could soon start

to ration care as staffing numbers are shorter than ever. and icu beds, they're now at zero perrent capacity. for more we turn to steve patterson in los angeles. >> reporter: health officials here in l.a. county are describing this situation almost as viral wildfire. one out of every 95 residents has a case of covid, one person expected to die every 10 minutes on average due to coronavirus. health officials are warning that the health system in general is at risk of capsizing. so many hospitals dealing with the oncoming surge of covid patients they're having to modify the hospital itself. creating make sift icus because icu capacity is at zero per ents for weeks and ambulances have been known to be circulating several hospitals looking for an open bed just for one patient as

hospital hospitals struggle for resourc resources and medications and oxygen levels are a struggle for hospitals as they try to help patients as they keep coming into the wards and then deal with the fact that they have expect any surge from the christmas holiday, the numbers in l.a. county as far as hospitalizations expected to double by the end of the week. so there is a real concern that a rationing of care, that principle will be put into place in several of the southern california hospitals which means they will have to make tough decisions about who gets proper care and who doesn't get because the hospital again is so packed at this point. jonathan. >> nbc's steve patterson, thank you. now according to the latest data from the cdc, only about 2.1 million americans have received their first coronavirus vaccine dose so far. that is of the more than 11.4 million doses distributed.

and about 18 million shy of operation warp speed december goal. with just about three days left to go. widespread inoculations all the more significant as we learn from dr. fauci this week that between 70 to 85% of the u.s. population may need to be vaccinated before we could reach herd immunity. that is up from the prior estimate of 70% to 75%. joining us now is dr. gnaw heed bad he'lla and from boston university school of medicine. dr. bad he'lla, thank you very much for being here. so given what dr. fauci said, how long will it take to reach herd immunity with dr. fauci extending it to 85% of the population needed to be vaccinated. >> yeah, jonathan, i've seen a lot of discussion about this comment about dr. fauci over the

weekend because in what i think underscores for me is just a reminder that herd immunity, the concept of the amount of people that may be vaccinated, are estimates because they're based on our better understanding about the transmissibility of the virus and the efficacy of the vaccine and the populations for different populations that we're talking about. so, the parts of this that i think are important is that when a general person asked about herd immunity, they're not talking about, hey, what percentage, what they're asking is when do i go back to normal, that is what people want to know. when do i go back to doing the activities that we can. i think that is a different question. but that is what people are asking. i think that what we'll see over the next four or five months is as we bring those cases down hopefully by limited movement and the vaccination rate goes up, hopefully the deaths an hospitalizations will go down and over time we have a phased return to normalcy.

and the rate at which we get to that, which is your question, will depend as you said at the speed of which we vaccine people. and the trouble is we've had a rocky start and that is based on the fact that the states haven't gotten the funding that finallye relief bill signed, they may get there, and there's been confusion in terms of how the vaccine gets distributed at that last mile. >> you know, doctor, why aren't people getting vaccinated at the rate that operation warp speed hoped they would be vaccinated? is it a matter of just log jamming in the distribution? >> so there are a couple different ellts. one was the cdc's advisory committee for immunization practices laid out these guidelines on what they thought the states should follow in terms of first base 1-a, phase 1-b, and the states have not always taken that -- have taken

it as guidance but have not complete lly followed it becaus they're reacting to their own priorities at state level. also, when operation warp speed sent the vaccines out initially, they didn't base it on the priorities of how many people were in those groups. they based it on the populations of the states. you're also seeing the detail that is needed, you know, the federal guidance that we have, i think, has not provided the type of details we need. the states have sort of defined these guidelines or last mile sort of practices on their own. the last bit is, who's giving people the vaccines? it's health care workers, and you just saw, you listed what california is going through right now. and so when health care workers are in those dire settings, you're taking away the very people who are going to be providing the vaccines to people who need them. >> and with that, dr. bhadelia, thank you so much for spending time with us this afternoon. when we return, remembering lives well lived. let me tell you something,

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thank you for spending this hour with us. as always, we are grateful. "the beat" starts right now. hi, ari. >> hi, jonathan. thank you so much. welcome to "the beat." i'm ari melber. we begin tonight with this erratic and unpredictable lame duck president wreaking havoc in what are the fining days. donald trump did fold and cave and signed the exact covid relief bill that had been sitting here for days. this is the same bill that extends unemployment benefits and provides $600 in direct payments and aid to individuals and with foreign aid. these are things donald trump had singled out and said that because there was that potential foreign money or other details, those were his, he said, sticking points. so it's important to know tonight as we go on the air they're in the exact same bill he just signed into law. in the end, the fact is that donald trump's antics brought him nothing. it's a self-made crisis that has