good morning. welcome back to "morning joe." ike eisenhower, richard nixon, bill clinton and barack obama, our conversations have focused on how joe biden's predecessors might shape his thinking as the next president of the united states. and we want to go back even further to the founding of the nation and thomas jefferson. jon meacham and tom ricks joined us for that discussion. >> you are all such prolific

writers, i wasn't sure where we're going to go this morning, but it strike mess that thomas jefferson and the election of 1800, what followed after that, makes perfect sense because both of you have written eloquently about it. and tom ricks, let me start with you, because we were just talking about it yesterday. some of the parallels between 1801 and 2021. >> as long as we're talking about southern politics, i used to be a reporter in georgia and i remember there was a senator who famously was asked about all of the people moving from south georgia to north florida. he said, i expected a little improvement in intelligence in both states. >> there you go. >> the election of 1800, it was a real parallel here, which is that john adams was our first one-term president. he was a crank, he was quite

bitter about being turned out of office. he saw it as a demotion and a rejection by the american people. the first person ever to not get re-elected to the presidency and even more he had to turn the power over to the opposition. to thomas jefferson, an old colleague he had come to distrust to make things even worse, the transition goes on forever because effectively jefferson and aaron burr because the constitution had been badly written about how to handle the re-elections, jefferson and burr are tied. congress votes 35 times on who the next president will be. finally, on the 36th vote, thomas jefferson wins. he becomes president. he's inaugurated in march and here's what's key. thomas jefferson comes in and he makes a couple of points very clear. first he says, look, in his inaugural address, not every difference of opinion is a

difference of principle. in other words, look, everybody, calm down here. you can oppose somebody without considering them to be a traitor. the second thing he says equally important he draws a line between the way that john adams had behaved and the way he'll behave. he said, look, i think i have the federalists, the new opposition, will denounce me, but i can take it. and whoever is right will win. so i think he's really trying to set a different tone for a new presidency with a real emphasis i think on stability and the loyal opposition, which i think biden will imitate and i think it will make for a very different presidency. >> and jon meacham, your extraordinary work on thomas jefferson, i have the mental image in my head that you painted with your wonderful words where you have the third

president of the united states before he actually wins the election, at the side of the bed, his feet in ice and wondering whether this republic that he had given his life to and had been fighting for for so many years would survive his own election. very, very perilous times in 1800 and going in to 1801. >> i think that arguably, i mean, clearly the declaration of independence and then the second most important paper jefferson ever wrote was the inaugural. there were other important things, but as tom was saying, that inaugural address told a story. and jefferson in many ways, more than washington, more than adams, was the architect of what i would call the politics of hope. the politics of optimism.

a politics that, you know, lincoln would pick up, that fdr continued. that president reagan continued. this notion that in fact tomorrow could be better than today. and that the american project was not simply about preservation of what we had, but the expansion and the growth and the pursuit of that happiness. and the first inaugural told that story. it also told a story of recovering the principles of '76. this is one of my favorite things when people say oh, if only things could be like they used to be. well, in 1801, thomas jefferson was arguing that we had fallen away from the principles of 1776. so that was the first restoration campaign in american politics and it was only the second really truly competitive

one after 1796. he wanted it to be the revolution of 1800, so we'd move away from the federalist centralization, the trappings of office. so the words, the story of hope mattered. the other thing was the style mattered. jefferson walked from his boarding house to the capitol for the inaugural. then he walked back and he sat down with his fellow boarders and he had lunch. he was self-consciously the republican, lower case "r," as opposed to the federalist, aristocratic figure, despite his aristocratic, virginia issues. so i would say that the lessons for any president would be tell a story and begin as you wish to carry on. >> mike barnicle? >> tom, it struck me listening

to you just a few moments ago that joe biden is the first man of the senate, a product of the senate that we have had in the presidency since lyndon johnson and it struck me that the senate is a very different place today than it was when senator biden arrived in the senate in 1973. january 1973. and just in the past few days, the statements from some of the republican senators, especially the senator from arkansas and the senator from missouri, the young senator from missouri, reek of such cynicism. i don't think it existed as viscerally, as visibly in the united states senate when joe biden was there as it does now, but you indicated you thought it would be and i agree with you, a very different kind of a presidency. but the difference in the senate from what it was when biden was there and what it is today, what kind of an impact do you think

that will have? >> look, the senate is such an odd place. it used to drive me kind of nuts covering it. people who are senators don't really learn to run anything, it it's always a worry for me when the senate goes into the cabinet position or the presidency. they bring with them a bunch of people who think that capitol hill is the world, it is not the world. it has always bothered about biden, they think it's about sitting down at the deal and cutting a deal and compromising. that's not the way that the world works. yeah, it could be a very dangerous background for biden. especially such a centrist and so dedicated to finding the center on any issue. it can be a recipe for a stalemate like the way that biden under obama handled the afghanistan portfolio. >> yeah, jon meacham, we're

going to have to go, but i want you to encapsulate the great wisdom you have for us and also america and the world in the next 30 seconds. go. >> yeah, what could be easier? look, the american presidency is very -- is often a mirror of who we are. but it can be a maker who have we are and fdr said that the greatest presidents have come along and helped define thought and custom at critical moments in the life of a nation. and so, when we look back and when we look forward, we want presidents who had virtues that we ourselves believe when we're being our best sell --s that we'd like to manifest as well. >> thank you. still ahead, the company you keep. what joe biden's cabinet says about his plans for the presidency. we're back in just a moment. t. did you know you can go to libertymutual.com

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i franklin delano roosevelt do solemnly swear that i will faithfully execute the office of president of the united states. and will to the best of my ability preserve, protect and defend the constitution of the united states. >> so help you god. >> so help me god. [ applause ] >> the president delivers a brief inaugural address. >> as i stand here today, having taken the solemn oath of office, in the presence of my fellow countrymen, in the presence of our god, i know that this is america's purpose that we shall not fail.

in the days and the years that have come, we shall work for a just, honorable peace, a durable peace, and today we will work and fight for total victory. >> welcome back. few presidents have more memorable lines than the next two. we'll discuss fdr and jfk. what can those presidents teach joe biden? we'll dig into that, but first a look at the team being built by the incoming administration. here now is that conversation. "the washington post" david ignatius writes in the latest column that joe biden is picking a cabinet built for comfort, but what he really needs is a vision. david argues that biden's challenge is that after cooling the national fever literally and figuratively he needs to shake things up. he should add intellectual fire power with some contrarians who will urge him to take risks.

professor, think tank chiefs, business and consulting companies who can rethink policy toward russia, china and other countries and perhaps as ambassadors. he and his team are going to inspire enthusiasm for the future we'll need to see some boldness once the electoral college has voted on december 14th and this is a done deal. joining us is professor of history at tulane university, walter isaacson, whose biographies include ones of such visionaries as steve jobs, ben franklin and leonardo da vinci. also on what joe biden can learn from the past presidents pulitzer prize winning historian and professor at harvard, annette gordon-reed. >> great to be here. >> professor, let's talk about

fdr. and how -- what you think joe biden can learn from roosevelt. >> well, i think he can learn the problem of coming in to office when there's a crisis. a huge crisis. then it was an economic crisis. we have that as well. but this is a different one. one of a pandemic. and i think he has to learn -- and he will learn that this is a moment to comfort the united states. to actually reassure people that things are going to be okay. the notion of shaking things up is good, but at the same time, there has to be a moment of cooling off so he can learn how to talk to the american people and to reassure them that we're going to go forward and that's a huge task for him. >> you also talk about jfk, that he should -- he should examine the presidency of jfk and specifically the civil rights

challenges that actually were starting to come to fruition at the beginning of jfk's presidency and which he famously brushed aside far too often only to have his successor lbj pick up the mantle in '64 and '65. what can he learn from jfk's three years in office? >> well, the importance of taking action, the importance of listening to people on this particular topic. in addition to the pandemic, we have had a huge reckoning, or notion of the reckoning on race, and it's hot topic and an important topic and has been throughout american history. he should listen to people and not to brush it aside. it took jfk a time, he eventually came around and people were pressing him and notably he did not shut people out and he eventually got to the point where he realized the importance of all of this, because the events were overtaking him and i think he wanted to be in control of that and to sort of make the

contribution that he could under those circumstances. >> walter, i have been talking about harry truman's surrounding himself with brilliant people and taking their advice. there was a notable exception as it pertained to israel and him even -- it's heart breaking for him, but having to cross george c. marshall. you have a great story in -- about steve jobs and specifically, you know, him pushing pack against people who wanted to go to third-party vendors for apps on the iphone. tell us about it. >> yeah. you know, steve jobs listened to people and he was very stubborn at times. he created the ipod and then of course the iphone and he wanted end to end control. so he didn't allow people -- other companies to put apps on the iphone, but his board kept pushing back on him. finally he says, hey, if you guys think you're so smart -- he used a few four-letter words go

ahead and do it. that was his way of showing he could listen to people. they used to give an award at apple to those who stood up to steve jobs. four women, joanna hoffman won it, but when steve found out about it he didn't get mad. all four of them got promoted. so i think you have to be able to have people pushing back and listening. and finally, you've got to create a great team like my friend annette said. steve jobs when i asked him once what was the greatest product you ever did, he said, well, creating a product is hard, but what's really hard is creating a team that will continually make great products. the best thing i did was to create the team at apple. >> annette, can you think of a president that stands out in your mind that created that sort of team? >> well, most notably, doris kearns goodwin talked about lincoln's team which fought a lot.

a team of rivals concept. certainly, i think that bill clinton had a team now. he went through a controversial presidency and he had sort of a different model there, but anyone who brings together people who are forceful, people who are creative and as walter said people who are willing -- a person willing to listen. you can have a great team, but if you don't have the personality that allows you to change and to be flexible it's not going to matter. i think the important thing for president biden is to find people he's comfortable with. this is an incredibly rotten time in the country and it's t not -- i mean, i like the idea of contention and all, but this is a moment for healing and a moment for confidence and he needs to surround himself with people that he can -- who he trusts and that's key. >> you know, walter, talking -- speaking of bill clinton, it's interesting how the first few years of bill clinton's presidency he followed the jfk

model. i remember reading in richard reed's wonderful biography about jfk that ike kept telling him it's a pyramid. you're at the top of that pyramid and if a problem gets to you it better be a big problem. whereas kennedy saw himself in the middle of the circle and he had it coming at him all the time. bill clinton started that way, but he didn't end that way. you can argue he became more effective when he went more to the -- sort of the ike pyramid approach. do you have an opinion on presidencies, how they're most effectively organized? >> i think it's very hard to do the pyramid topdown hierarchical approach in the digital age. what powers so much of decentralized, whether it be power in your own team or power in the united states, you can't have hierarchies that easy with the type of digital transmission of information we have.

i agree with annette totally that as much as i love david ignatius, my favorite columnist in many ways, i think many ways before he gets to contention and bold people, biden he has to calm things down and comfort. doris kearns said lincoln had a team of rivals, well, biden has a team of buddies. at the moment, we need people who are trusted by the president, who can comfort us and who can exude some competence. i would like that cooling off period that i think biden is bringing. >> hey, walter, i want to ask you about america doing big things because we did a big thing with some help from the german company biontech. america in partnership with another country in this case in germany, but also america moderna is an american firm as

well, just developed and got fda approval for the first of several vaccines in less than a year. it was the government and the pharmaceutical companies, what does that tell you about america because there's so much cynicism and despair right now. >> it's a great achievement for innovation and like the alliances between biontech and pfizer and we invested in the basic science. when you look at what biontech/pfizer has done, moderna has done, it's a whole new type of vaccine that comes out of the most basic thing in the entire planet earth when it comes to the science which is the secret of life. how rna creates proteins in our cells and that's all that -- all that vaccine does is it takes a piece of rna and says, create

this protein that'll give them immunity to coronavirus. so we have to look at the country that has since world war ii, america, been very good at incenting basic science and since the end of world war ii, we were in the digital revolution based on bits and microchips and on/off switches that could proprocess information. now we're in the molecular revolution where molecules are the new microchip and that's going to take a greater combination of government, industry and academia, because creating a vaccine is not something you can do in your garage like the google guys or the facebook guys did. >> so annette, can you answer the $64,000 question that seems to be hanging over any talk i give or any interview i give. everybody asks, how should joe biden approach mitch mcconnell

and the republican congress, and they use the example of barack obama going in and being effectively shut down by republicans, determined to do little more than end his presidency after one term. what should joe biden do looking back at that history that he was very much a part of. >> well, his inclination it seems is to be bipartisan. i mean, he loves the senate. to work with people, as much as possible. but that doesn't really bode well. my advice to him -- i'm not the president obviously, would be to use whatever powers he has to do what it takes. we have things to do in the country and we don't have time for games. whatever power he can use making people acting secretaries, whatever he can do to get the ball rolling i think he should do. make the overtures. if they're rebuffed don't spend the next four years begging. do what he can and use the power

of the president. >> pulitzer prize historian and professor at harvard, annette gordon-reed, thank you very much. and walter isaacson, thank you as well. still ahead, the mental health impact of covid-19. how the pandemic is dealing a one-two punch to so many americans. we'll take a deep dive on that on mental health and what you can do to help others, straight ahead on this special edition of "morning joe."

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i would enjoy having some kentucky bourbon with mitch mcconnell. i don't know what his preferred drink is. >> president obama wondering what the senate majority leader likes to drink. perhaps it's an aged kentucky bourbon, so coveted that at one time 200 bottles worth $26,000

of it were stolen and for about a year and a half authorities couldn't catch the thief. the crime making international headlines and joining us now someone who knows all about this special kentucky bourbon. wright thompson senior writer at espn and the author of "pappyland, a story of family, fine bourbon and the things that last." first things first, who was pappy van wingcal? >> he started the distillery on kentucky derby day and people still consider that to be to gold standard. he's the enzo ferrari of bourbon and his grand son, julian van winkle still makes the whiskey today. so this is about four years of running around and drinking whiskey with julian. it was a tough job.

>> hey, this is willie geist. i love this book. so my full disclosure, i grew up in new jersey knowing nothing about bourbon and then when i went to college in nashville, all of the 18-year-olds were drinking bourbon and i became a bourbon drinker and i got a bottle of a pappy at one time and i keep it in a space for a special occasion. what makes it so expensive to start with, more expensive on the aftermarket, and just so special to bourbon drinkers? >> i think it's a combination of things. i mean, one, it really is great. i mean, when you taste it. even when you pour it in the bottle, the viscosity -- pour it out of the bottle the viscosity is different. look, we all like the thing we can't have, it's psychology 101. they make so little of it that it's really, really hard to get. and so the combination of those two things, i mean, it just turns it into sort of -- i mean,

it's crack rock. like you can't get enough of it. i mean, like it is. >> it is. >> people go crazy for it. >> i mean, it definitely tastes different. when did this kind of happen? i guess bourbon went into vogue 20, 25 years ago. it had a comeback and it rose even more during "mad men", i think. when did the pappy craze begin? >> it has been going nonstop and julian kept joking, he was like, i hope the bubble doesn't pop while you're doing this book and you spent all this time and no one buys it. it is interesting how it goes in cycles. i would love for someone to do a master's or a ph.d. thesis where you try to predict the national mood based on what people drink. like is vodka hot or is scotch hot or is bourbon hot? i read someone that, you know, nostalgia comes from the greek

words for home and pain and bourbon is so associated with nostalgia and so, you know, i would love to try to figure out like how what people like to drink reflects something essential and otherwise unknowable about america. >> mike barnicle's got a question for you. >> hey, pappyland, it seems a bit more about the culture as well as the drink, the bourbon itself. i'm thinking specifically of an element in the book that you write about. you're sitting around ramone's, a restaurant in your hometown of clarks dale, mississippi. could you talk about the culture of bourbon in the south and the memories and as you have indicated in the title the things that last. >> you know, we were sitting around that restaurant the night before thanksgiving with my whole family and i had a bottle of pappy and we left and my brother was riding with me and,

you know, the cemetary, my brother and i didn't say a word to each other, he handled me the empty bottle and i set it down by the grave and i got in the car and i looked at him and he nodded and i nodded and we drove on. very complicated ideas about our family and fathers and children and home often live in a drink we share with someone. like no words were communicated. you know, first time my wife read this book, i tried to explain my grand theory. you wrote it for dad's and i'm like, oh, my god, don't tell anyone. any rock 'n' roll -- i'm like, you're about to destroy my cred. there's something to that that, you know, the bourbon is -- it's always a vehicle and it's a way

we articulate things that otherwise we would struggle to articulate. >> well, a brilliant assignment you have given yourself. and you have inspired me to take a rare dip into the pappy tonight. the book is called "pappyland, a story of family, fine bourbon and the things that last." wright, thanks for being here. >> thanks. >> we will be right back with more "morning joe." rning joe.

♪ this new year's eve be a part of the live virtual event of the year as landmarks live presents kiss 2020 good-bye. live from atlantis good-bye. experience kiss like never

before. over 50 cameras, 360 degree views. the most spectacular live stream concert event of 2020. new year's eve is gonna be fire. kiss 2020 good-bye. >> with chart-topping hits and unmistakable stage looks, kiss is one of the most iconic rock bands and now they're getting ready to kiss 2020 good bye. aren't we all? along with the rest of us. after postponing their 2020 farewell tour schedule, the legendary band will ring in the new year with the live stream concert in dubai on new year's eve. joining us now, singer, bassist, cofounder of the rock band kiss, gene simmons joins us. great to have you. >> hey, gene, thank you for being with us. >> thank you. >> we also have kyle meredith here. so, man, you're ending the year in style with this massive

concert production wise at the same time it's covid safe. first of all, tell us a little bit about that. >> well, the wonderful folks in dubai have been so supportive about trying to lift everybody's spirits. we're big fans of that. 2020 has been such a hardship for everybody. there's so many people out of work. the economy is just in the dumper even though the dow is way, way up above 30,000. i mean, that's fine, but emotionally i think everybody is so down. so we always have been about celebrating life and just shaking the sky. like a fourth of july fire works with a drummer in back of it, that's what we do. so this is going to be the safest concert you can imagine. they're sending a private plane with apartments and the food and the stuff. everybody is going to be far, far away from each other and i for one, i'm going to try to get vaccinated before i go. so there are going to be very

few people there, but this is the largest event on earth. people will be there to validate this is the largest pyroshow since the big bang. and we're going to shake the heavens and kudos to atlantis and the fine folks in dubai for allowing us to be do this. because we have all been about size. bigger and better and subtlety is like get out of here, give me kiss. >> exactly. so gene, could you talk about musicians in 2020 because, you know, i have been -- i have been writing songs and i'm a musician since i was 13. but i didn't have the guts to throw everything in the back of a van and drive across the country. the people i respect are the working musicians that do that every day, that could be doing something else, but they -- but the music is their life. and my god, 2020 has been so

hard for literally millions of working musicians around the globe. could you talk a little bit about that? >> look, my heart goes out to anybody who's trying to make a living in the music world, but you've got to remember there are many, many multiple times more people who support it, who put up the stages, man the clubs, so on. once the vaccine takes hold, and i hope everybody takes it, it is important to support your local clubs. the places of entertainment and so on. one of the first things all you guys can do is new year's eve, stay at home. don't go out there. i know you want to have a good time. have a party at home with people you know. even there, stay socially distant and turn on your streaming service. go to kiss 2020 good-bye.com. you can stream the largest party on planet earth in the safety of

your own home. don't go out and get drunk and make stupid mistakes. you'll be very sorry. >> it's great advice for any year. you talked about getting your 400 crew members back to work for this event as well. i know for someone who's on the road and has spent so many years on the road that's your family. those men and women who put up the stages and do everything around your shows. it's bad for the actors, of course, but also the ticket takers and the person who sells the twizzlers and hangs the lights and all that. what do you want to say about crew and trying to take care of them as we move forward in this strange time? >> well, we have. we have been making it easy by sending checks here and there to our folks who make everything possible. even you guys and your wonderful multimillion dollar studio you have folks that man the cameras and the lights and you can't do what you do without them. >> that's right. >> it takes a village they say

and you have really got to stop and stop thinking about yourself. it's easy to do that. that includes wearing a mask. it ain't about you, but protecting everybody else. support the people who make your life better and sacrifices, i'm so sick and tired of people saying, i have to do this, i have to do that. shut up, a few generations ago we were asked to make the ultimate sacrifice and fight in world war ii where 50 million people and your sacrifice is to watch reruns of "game of thrones" and order in food. think of everybody else. >> let's bring in the music director for wfpk in louisville and "morning joe" contributor, kyle meredith. he's with us and he has a question. >> you guys are one of the biggest bands, known for your showmanship, gene, but how does that translate to the living room? do you think about that when you're doing a show like this? >> yeah, we do. just the way you guys -- your

wonderful staff framed everything on here. we're aware generally speaking the frame of tv sets out there, even computers, is basically this kind of shape. which means they asked me to put the cell phone sideway instead of up and down. lots of people have the big, big screens on their homes or even if it's on your computer, you still get the show of a lifetime. i want to give you a sense of the size of it. low-flying planes are not going to be allowed over the concert and i mean that in the very nicest way. it's not a good idea when there are no limitations in terms of how the -- how big the pyro is going to be. when you see the show, the band and the drums and our drummer are not going to be on stage. the curtain falls and all hell breaks loose. we're going to descend from the heavens like the gods that we are. >> on top of that, though, you have a million dollars worth of

pyrotechnic a part of this. and again, we're talking about the kiss show of all time. this has been in your dna for forever, a 45-year career, 45 year plus. were you influenced by your peers at the time when you came in or did that come from something earlier? >> of course we were influenced. you can't be here without those who have gone before. so you've got to point to the greats that came before you. jimi hendrix, so on. whenever you see jimi hendrix footage, the classic stuff is on the floor, lighting his guitar on fire or townsend smashing his guitar. it's showmanship. the musicians stand up on the stage all by myself. you're paying so much money for a ticket and you've got to be

cognizant of that fact. there i go with another big word like gymnasium. i was so disappointed with seeing the bands whose music i it wasn't until i saw the who and the english bands, especially the who and a few others that understood there were smoke bombs that townsend was smashing his guitar, and townsend and roger who's become my friend, was twirling his microphone and all that. you go away not just remembering the sound but also what you saw. it's audio, visual kids, see in it's both. when you're at home or in your car, it's just that stuff that gets tickled, but when you go to a live event, you've got to tickle the orbs, you've got to give them something they'll remember. we have more fire power on that stage than some third world countries and i mean that in the very nicest way.

>> thank you, gene simmons so much. it's great to have you here. and we're really excited about the show. you can get more information at kiss2020goodbye.com. "morning joe" is back in a moment. rough with powering through, it's time for theraflu hot liquid medicine. powerful relief so you can restore and recover. theraflu hot beats cold. laso you can enjoy it even ifst you're sensitive. se. yet some say it isn't real milk. i guess those cows must actually be big dogs. sit! i said sit! ♪ still warm. ♪ thanks, maggie. oh, alice says hi.

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the reality is december and january and february are going to be rough times. i actually believe they're going to be the most difficult time in the public health history of this nation. we're in that range potentially now of starting to see 1,500 to 2,000 to 2,500 deaths a day from this virus. so, yeah, the mortality concerns are real, and i do think unfortunately before we see february we could be close to 450,000 americans have died from this virus.

>> welcome back to "morning joe." there's been a major increase in americans who report symptoms of stress, anxiety, and depression during this pandemic, and as "morning joe"'s chief medical correspondent dr. dave campbell reports, the impacts of covid-19 go even deeper than that. >> prior to the outbreak of covid-19, an estimated one in five new yorkers struggled with mental health issues, which has only been exacerbated by the pandemic. with widespread vaccination projected to begin by spring or summer, people are facing many more months of restrictions and isolation as this dark winter approaches. >> mental health used to be swept under the rug. it used to be a second class citizen of health care. it can't be anymore. it needs to be front and center. coronavirus crisis is more lasting in its mental health implications than physical health implications. we've got to do something about that now. >> reporter: there are over 30,000 young people dealing with trauma and homelessness in new york city. covenant house new york has

ramped up its operations throughout the pandemic to provide round the clock support, shelter, and nutrition to the city's youth in need. >> we were seeing a lot of young people who understandably were scared and anxious and feeling, you know, more hopeless and more depressed. we started offering telehealth therapy sessions. what we've learned is that most of our young people prefer in-person therapy. we reconfigured large spaces so that we can sit with them safely six feet apart and with masks on. >> reporter: the hazelton betty ford clinic supports those suffering from substance misuse and relapse which have spiked during the pandemic. >> we do have i would say more relapses than before. people are dreading the change of season, dreading the prolonged isolation, not being a i believe to socialize. >> reporter: has the stigma affected your population any more because of the pandemic and the isolation? >> same and stigma really have been the silent killer for

behavioral health conditions. we are now able to provide virtual services for people who don't reside in the city. over 50% of our clients stated that they would actually continue virtual services. >> dr. emmanuel fambu is on the forefront of better physical and mental health care through technology innovation. >> what are some innovations and methods you see in a post-pandemic world. >> precovid, right, we all had all these conditions that existed by everyone had access to care. covid just exposed that part of the world, i made it a goal to make sure we increase awareness of mental health. there's no one solution to everything. we need to have a holistic approach to any disease, especially mental health. you could have the drug, but peer support could be important to you, at the right place, the right time. maybe a drug is important in the morning. the idea of having this personalized approach to medicine driven by data so we can make more informed decisions at the right time. >> reporter: a city wide initiative was launched by mayor

de blasio's wife first lady chirlane mccray to facilitate round the clock mental health resources. >> what chirlane did was make mental health available to everyone starting with a hot line that anyone could call 24/7 and get support and get help. that's something that could be achieved anywhere in america, including rural areas that need it the most where there may not be health care nearby. >> reporter: as a country we need to think about integrating mental health care with primary care. stigma is our biggest problem. no matter who i talk to, it's the first issue that comes up we're not built to hold onto all of these emotions by ourselves. we need others. that's why this pandemic has been so difficult. the isolation is a kind of punishment for us. we can prevent crises. we don't want people to get to the point where they feel like there's nowhere to turn. there's nothing that they could do and they feel driven to take their own life or to use heavy drugs. we don't want people to reach that stage. there's always hope and there's

always help. we just have to reach out. that's the first step to getting out of the sorrow, out of the sadness, out of the pain that we're in. good morning, and welcome back to a special prerecorded edition of "morning joe." in just a few weeks from now, joe biden will take the oath of office on the steps of the u.s. capitol where he served in the senate for decades. we spoke about the president-elect's past and future jobs with historians doris kerns good win who chronicled another president lyndon b. johnson. >> what can biden take away and learn from lbj's legacy? >> you know, there's no question that lbj was a man of the congress as