fight going. so part of not conceding allows him to continue to fund raise for whatever it is he calls this little battle. >> well also let's look at that statement for a second, it's an honor to be with an honor to be with you on this historic night. trump has often come out and, you know, not himself, but his statements have been released in his name throughout his four years as president, that sometimes seem almost reasonable, and that he almost always comes out and then says, no, that's not what i meant, or doubled down what he said originally, that the white house was trying to clean up. so, until he says this, himself, on camera, you know, this sounds like a statement that was written for him that they forced him to agree with, because they thought he was going, you know, over the deep end. so, he has still said in the past that he wants his supporters to be in washington also on january 20th.

and if you look at what happened today, that certainly doesn't auger well for what might happen 13 days from now. so, orderly transition -- we know he doesn't want that. we know that's not his agenda. so, just because he said that in a statement, or someone wrote that down for him in a statement, doesn't mean that's where his heart or head are at. so, he's going to continue on the lost cause. he's raised all this money. he can't use that money to pay off his debts, his business debts, but he can keep his family and his political team together, making lots of money. the griff goes on. he was raising money today, today, as the terrorist attack that he incited was ongoing. so, they want to keep that going. trump -- you know, tonight, the donald trump presidency came basically to an end, but trumpism will go on. two-thirds of the house republicans -- two-thirds sided

with the people who overran the capitol today, who, you know, who acted violently in a way that led to the death of at least one person, maybe others. so, trumpism goes on. he wants to control that politically. he wants to control that financially. and i will believe an orderly transition on january 20th, when we wake up on january 21st. >> when you actually see it. kurt bardella, there are a whole bunch of people who might find some solace in that statement that just came out, and maybe mike pence is one of them. make mike pompeo's another. maybe nikki haley is one. three of the people who will leave this administration possibly with a little less stink than everybody else in the administration has. josh hawley wants to run for president. marsha blackburn probably wants to run for president. ted cruz wants to run for president. but donald trump's not saying

that he's getting out of the way for that. how does that all look? because as you know, presidential campaigns begin as soon as the last one ends. >> well, and that's the thing. when i look at hawley and cruz, who clearly have been using this process and proceeding to try to jockey to be the front of the line for 2024, the reality is, trump is going to try to at least create the impression that he's definitely running in 2024 to freeze everybody in place, to stay relevant in the media. the media is the lifeblood for donald trump. that's always been the case. and he knoecws that right now h is the front-runner for the nomination in 2024. he's not going to relinquish that to anybody, whether it's hawley or cruz or rubio or pence. we know that the trump family -- the kids, jared and ivanka and trump jr. and the other daughter have political designs. there is talk of ivanka running for senate to primary, marco

rubio in florida in 2022. so there are all these pieces in play to keep the trump family front and center, keep the money, keep the grip going and keeping everyone who was loyal to them who were hoping to get something out of that relationship, something in turn, they'll be left holding the bag with nothing. and mike pence, of course, will be chief among them, as we were talking about a second ago. but i agree with david here, until donald trump actually says he's going to have a peace falling transition of power, that he has accepted reality, i'm not going to believe it. and i think that this statement was put out in part to try to silence some of the chatter we've heard today about the possibility of an impeachment or the invocation of the 25th amendment. i think that this is the trump team trying to mitigate some of that damage, and i think the question that the trump cabinet and the members of congress need to ask themselves -- we saw today with alarming quickness how this could get out of control, how it could get dangerous and how it could get violent. are we willing to risk this happening again? >> so, this is two of you now

saying you don't believe it until you see it on january 20th. we still have 13 days left to go until that, jonathan alter, and there are people who today have called for impeachment. there are reports that there are legitimate discussions about the 25th amendment, invoking the 25th amendment, which we had heard before, but boy, the bar is very, very high for the 25th amendment. you've got to have a lot of cabinet secretaries involved. and now that donald trump's attempted coup seems to be coming to an end and not meeting with success, i think there are a whole bunch of people who would probably rather just ride into the sunset and not deal with this. so, what happens to donald trump over the course of the next 13 days? and do you at least take this message to believe that donald trump thinks his efforts to hold onto the presidency are over? >> well, i think his family's probably telling him that, because they have at least a little, tiny tie to reality, as

offensive and as horrible as they've been. look, 13 days can be a long time. that's how long the cuban missile crisis lasted. i wrote in my book about jimmy carter about camp david. that was 13 days with an enormous number of ups and downs. so there are a lot of turns of the wheel that can still happen. but i'm actually a little bit more optimistic than some of the people who have been on television tonight, and that's because this was, as we've heard from the white house, a really bad day politically for donald trump, bad day for conservatives, as ann coulter said. and you know, he is a trapped animal, in a certain way, but i think there's also a chance that he might just curl up in the fetal position now. i'm not betting on it. there could be more problems. but i do have a sense that, as horrible as what happened today was, the chances of the same

kind of thing happening again, like them, these terrorists attacking the inauguration site -- i think the odds of that are pretty slim, and i think we will have a secure inauguration and a secure transition of power and that we need to stop talking as much, so much about donald trump, and start looking forward to a biden administration that is going to be significantly stronger than it was before the georgia election. and so, you know, we want to start to put him on radio silence, which is where he belongs, and to start to build the kind of muscle memory of ignoring this man. he should not be treated with any respect and should not be given very much attention after

he leaves the presidency. the 2024 campaign hasn't started yet, and we shouldn't let him start it. so, i hope that we can focus on joe biden, not just in the next couple of weeks, but for the next few years. >> from your lips to god's ears! if we can talk about something other than donald trump for the next four years. we have avoided the conversations shannon pettypiece and i like to talk about, about the economy. we have avoided conversations on climate change. we have avoided meaningful conversations on social equity. but shannon, he's been awful busy in the last few months avoiding the most important conversation that we should have been having in america right now, and that is coronavirus. not only has the president avoided it, but he has been incredibly busy with his conspiracy theories and his conspiracy theory lawyers and not relinquishing the reins of government, when, in fact, the cdc says 400,000 americans will

have died by inauguration day. america is 4.25% of the global population, and we will have 20% of the global deaths by inauguration day. donald trump dropped all level of interest in coronavirus months ago. >> right. i mean, yeah. to think of the amount of time and discussion that has been spent on the validity of the election results, which have so clearly been valid, the amount of time that's been spent talking about election fraud when there was no widespread or systemic election fraud, at a time when this country is facing one of the biggest health crises in its history, potentially, certainly in many of our lifetimes, with 2,000 or 3,000 people dying a day. of course, these enormous numbers. and not to mention that, but this sluggish vaccine rollout

that has been just dragging on for weeks now and not really showing signs of a real clear course correction. of course, you know, the president saw the vaccine -- yes, he didn't want to tell people to wear masks and he didn't want to have to take any blame for the deaths, but he wanted to get credit for the vaccine. i mean, that's what those around him really continue to emphasize that they felt the vaccine could be his legacy. so, here we have the vaccine. and as you said, he couldn't even find interest in that or take a leadership role in trying to expedite this vaccine to people. i mean, the numbers, the small amount of vaccine that's actually gotten into arms, i mean, it has really just been staggering for doctors. so, yes, among all of this going on with the pandemic, there has been this time spent really on this silliness about nonexistent voter fraud. >> i will ask you to all take a break. i want to leave our audience, and we're going to come back and show you again, the moment, the

historic moment in which the vice president of the united states, mike pence, declared that joe biden will be the 46th president of the united states. s

welcome back. i'm ali velshi. it is 4:00 a.m. on the east coast, following a violent day unlike any we have ever seen on capitol hill, a day that has ended with this historic moment at 3:41 a.m. >> the whole number of electors appointed to vote for president of the united states is 538. within that whole number, a

majority is 270. the votes for president of the united states are as follows -- joseph r. biden jr. of the state of delaware has received 306 votes. donald j. trump with the state of florida has received 232 votes. the whole number of electors appointed to vote for vice president of the united states is 538. within that whole number, a majority is 270. the votes for vice president of the united states are as follows -- kamala d. harris of the state of california has received 306 votes. michael r. pence of the state of indiana has received 232 votes. the announcement of the state of the vote by the president of the senate shall be deemed a sufficient declaration of the persons elected president and vice president of the united states, each for the term beginning on the 20th day of

january 2021, and shall be entered together with the list of the votes on the journals of the senate and the house of representatives. >> and that is the whole ball game. just minutes after that, even donald trump released a statement. it cannot be termed a concession because he continues to falsely claim that he won the election, but the statement does promise an orderly transition of power on january 20th. the president's small move toward normalcy comes less than a day after he sparked one of the worst moments in american democracy. following a push by donald trump to march on the capitol, his supporters did exactly that. violence erupted as thousands of insurrectionists invaded the capitol, fighting with law enforcement and leading a hostile takeover of the heart of democracy. want to go first to nbc's garrett haake, who has been standing by with me all evening and morning on capitol hill. garrett, this is a different

moment from us than one that you have been enjoying since november 3rd. >> reporter: yeah, i think that's right. and you know, look, this is the end of this entire process. this was this broadest moment for mike pence that we all knew was coming. this was inevitable. and now it happened, 13 hours later than it needed to, with four more people dead who didn't need to lose their lives. four people dead. >> yep. >> reporter: at the united states capitol today, for counting votes, for a ceremonial action like lighting the rockefeller center christmas tree. i mean, there is nothing about this that had to happen. but in this performative action today and in this riot incited by the president of the united states, people lost their lives here today for a conclusion that we could have done today and had people, you know, home in time to pick up their kids from school or to be watching the news at dinner talking about this 32nd story of the vote count today. just an extraordinarily sad

moment. >> four people died on a day in which something happened that was procedural that i guarantee most of our viewers have never paid attention to in prior elections. it's not even a day that was relevant. you kind of registered that there was an electoral college actual vote at some point, and then the inauguration. but it was election day and it was inauguration for most people, except us political reporters. >> reporter: yeah, you know what's funny about today, even as a political reporter who covers this, the one thing that i think i remember from this day that i think a lot of political junkies know is that people joke about the mahogany boxes, right? there's this -- the theater of this -- these big wooden boxes that the electoral votes comes in, and it's one of those things that's sort of talked about every four years. we dredge this back up. it's the political ceremony that surrounds this whole process that is, like, kind of goofy and a throwback in a lot of ways, but it's part of what ties inauguration after inauguration

and peaceful transfer of power one after another together through the decades and the centuries. and today, it took a quick-thinking congressional aide to snatch those boxes out of the chamber today so that the hooligans running through the capitol didn't run off with the electoral votes. i mean, we are so far beyond the bounds of normal and what we all collectively experienced today that i think it's going to take a long time for exactly what this all means and was to settle in. i know it will for me. >> we have had for the first time in maybe ever a result in which the president of the united states wasted no time in tweeting about something in a way that did not seem to further enflame things. there's speculation that donald trump didn't write that tweet, because it's sort of not donald trump's language. >> reporter: yeah. >> but the idea that he says there's going to be a peaceful transfer of power on january 20th feels like a whole lot to give up for a guy who's got 13 days to go and has thrown in a

match into a fuel-filled room almost every single day since the election. >> reporter: yeah, ali, look, i moonlight as a white house reporter sometimes on a fill-in basis, and here's one thing i've learned pretty quickly. it's that statements from aides, be they on twitter or to the cameras or on paper, purporting to be the thoughts of this president are almost never really the thoughts of this president. i mean, we have to report them. this is the way that the white house functions. it's, frankly, the way that we as reporters are conditioned. a senior aide says "x" about the president's thinking. we should report that. but with this president more than any other, that is so often not the case that it's just hard to take this seriously. >> what happens to all of those people who came to d.c. to defend this presidency against the steal? >> reporter: that's a good question. you know, i've covered major protests and large-scale events like this in d.c. before.

the mpd will take over the investigation of this criminal element here today, and they're pretty good, actually, at finding the people from security cameras, from social media, you know, at tracking down people who broke the law here in d.c. and i don't think they're going to spare much effort to do that, because there is another major event here that shares all these same risk factors coming up in two weeks, and that's the inauguration. and just like we saw a few days ago, the leader of the proud boys getting arrested by d.c. police when he returned to d.c. on charges that stemmed from the last act of hooliganism here in the district, so, too, i think many of these people who could be identified as bad actors, will face their day in a d.c. court, ultimately, should they stay. i should also point out that the city is taking a much more aggressive posture in terms of policing now, arguably, that they should have taken 24 hours ago, around the district with this curfew and with the extension of an emergency order that will, hopefully, keep this

700,000 district residents safe as this continues to get sorted out. >> garrett, doing yeoman's work. i don't know when the last time i didn't see you on tv was, and i don't know if it's going to be for a while. but i'll join you in d.c. i'm on my way there in a few hours and we're going to see what's going on tomorrow and whether things get on to some track that resembles a little bit more normal on the way to the inauguration. garrett haake, thanks a million. by the way, there might be occasion for us to speak in the next 40 minutes or so, the way things go these days. so, thank for being with me tonight. >> reporter: thanks. >> i want go to our panel. beth fouhy senior politics editor for nbc news, michael sta star hopkins served on the campaigns of president obama, hillary clinton and john delaney, is a founding partner of north starr strategies. and john holler wanger is a senior politics reporter for "business insider." welcome to all of you. thanks for being with us. my old friend, beth, i'm going to start with you, because you and i, as you know, i've told people on the show, i learned

most of what i know about political reporting from you. you were my first boss in the business. you didn't teach me about this. you didn't teach me to expect days like this and weeks like this and things that -- i mean, you never taught me about this. >> one has to think, or hope, ali, that the presidency of donald trump is sui generous in this regard -- that no other president, hopefully in our -- certainly not that has come along so far and certainly, hopefully, nobody that's coming next -- would provoke this kind of act. but i think there's a longer view that we all need to take, which is something about president trump has produced the sort of umbilical connection to millions of people in this country who were willing to do this, that were willing to undertake an illegal act to breach the security of the most sacred building in the united states, the united states capitol, on behalf of that president. and what is it about him and

what does that tell us about future republicans trying to somehow capture the magic that donald trump was able to capture, without all of attendant decadence and lies and the thwarting of norms? and i think we're seeing different republicans trying to figure that out. we had, of course, had ted cruz and josh hawley, two senators, objecting to the certification of joe biden as the next president. that was their stab at kind of reaching out to the trumpists, even though, as constitutional lawyers, they know better. you know, the marco rubio, perhaps, who's acknowledging that the government does have a role to play in helping prop people up economically. you know, we had president trump advocating for $2,000 checks for people suffering from economic collapse around the coronavirus that the establishment republicans wouldn't go for. you have sort of a nikki haley who's trying to take a more broad-based, you know, less sort

of racially tinged approach. she, of course, being the former governor of south carolina who saw to it that the confederate flag was removed from her capitol. all of these people are trying to find a piece of what was the magic of trump without all of the corruption and the derangement, and it will be interesting to see whether any of them can do that. >> michael starr hopkins, maybe there's a piece of something that can appeal to the republican party that's not got anything to do with trump, you know, an appeal to people, an empathy for people who are feeling passed by and disenfranchised by establishment people, whether they're republicans or not, but can go in a completely different direction, so you don't end up having these trump panderers who bring along the racism and the xenophobia with them, but just have conservative ideals that they want to discuss and debate in at arena of ideas. >> absolutely. there are lots of republicans who i may disagree with, but i think are good people and we can have conversation and figure out

the best way to move the country forward. a lot of those people are in that capitol, and they're not politicians, but they're the staff, they're the people who are behind the scenes, the people who really live in washington who make up the essence of this government, the people who are constantly under attack by republicans and also by society as a whole who think washington is just this corporate governance and not a group of people who are all americans. but i think we actually have a bigger problem. the bigger problem that we have right now is people are literally putting their political aspirations above country. they're willing to sell out the country to become celebrities on right-wing media, to curry favor with the trump family, and that has consequences to it. we saw this coming. we saw charlottesville. we heard the president's rhetoric on that dais four years ago during the inauguration, where he talked about american carnage. well, it's here, and people have to do something about it. what's the point in running for office if you lose your soul in

gaining it? and that's where we are. the country is losing its soul if we're not careful, and we're dangerously, dangerously close to not being able to hold institutions together, and it's scary. >> and john, i mean, i always loved theodore roosevelt's speech about, you know, the man in the arena and the idea that that's where it all goes down, but that's not where this is all going down. however you want to look at what's happened in the last several months, it is a coup attempt, it is an insurrection attempt, and it is based on lies that mainstream members of congress and mainstream republicans and enablers of donald trump and people who still work for the trump campaign and people who still work in the white house have enabled. this has nothing to do with democracy. it has nothing to do with whether you're a democrat or a libertarian or a republican. this is lies and a coup attempt and an insurrection.

>> absolutely. i mean, trump has essentially convinced republicans that conceding and adhering to the democratic process is a sign of weakness and is surrender. it's quite remarkable that after all of the events today, we still saw a majority of house republicans continue to embrace his path towards objection, when, frankly, the violence that we saw today, the four people we saw die, that was a result of trump's lies and their lies about the election. these people have become convinced that trump lost the election due to mass voter fraud, which is, of course, baseless. that's why they gathered in washington, and that's why they stormed the capitol, and we saw an attempted coup in the temple of our democracy today, and it was, frankly, one of the most disturbing days in my lifetime and likely, u.s. history. >> yeah, it really was. and let's not forget, four people lost their lives in this, beth. so, for all those people who are

calling for the 25th amendment or for new impeachment -- we've had calls for new impeachment -- and there are a whole bunch of people who say, why bother with that? donald trump's on his way out of office in a couple weeks. and people are hoping that new york state officials will go after trump. if we don't have some consequence to this behavior, it normalizes it, right? that's the accusation that people like you and me have faced in media for four years, that donald trump has been normalized. he lies so much, and we haven't been able to catch every last one. the "washington post" keeps a list of them. but at some point, what's the consequence so that nobody else follows his blueprint? >> well, again, trump is sui generous that way. his entire career has basically been a series of events and decisions where the things that have happened to other people don't happen to trump. he seems to get away with everything he's ever done.

and so, that's sort of emboldened him to just keep going, to keep pushing. one could say, well, he's faced the ultimate consequence here, he did not get re-elected. but in his mind and in the minds of his supporters, it was all stolen from him. it was all rigged. it was all wrong. even that statement that was released where he said he'd agree to the orderly transfer of power, he once again said that he'd won the election and that he was robbed. so, this is the way donald trump processes things. nothing's ever his fault. it's always somebody else's. he manages to escape like houdini from every uncomfortable situation. but to your point about consequences, there need to be a lot. we certainly need to find out why the security was so lax in the capitol and why all those protesters were able to get inside, seemingly for hours before things were calmed down. we need to have some accountability from those people. what kind of consequences will they face going forward to never do this again?

>> what a remarkable, what a remarkable 24 hours that we have all been through. thank you for joining us. my panel will be back with me later in the hour, beth, michael, and john. we're going to have more on the ugliness that we witnessed today at the united states capitol. former federal prosecutor glenn kirschner joins me next. you're watching msnbc. enn kirschner joins me next. you're watching msnbc. it's time for the lowest prices of the season on the sleep number 360 smart bed. you can adjust your confort on both sides... your sleep number setting. can it help me fall asleep faster? yes, by gently warming your feet. but, can it help keep me asleep? absolutely, it intelligently senses your movements and automatically adjusts to keep you both effortlessly comfortable.

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they stormed the capitol, they busted windows, they broke down the glass doors, then they prowled the senate chambers with

guns drawn. and after all of that, only 52 out of the thousands of insurrectionists who invaded the capitol at the behest of donald trump, who was attempting a coup, were arrested. joining me now is glenn kirschner, former federal prosecutor and msnbc legal analyst. their faces were visible to everyone, glenn. ari melber posted something on twitter today in which he talks about the violations of law. he says, it's a violation of federal law to trespass, entering or remaining in a building that a person is not licensed to enter. it is a violation of federal law to enter a restricted government building or to engage in disorderly contact near it that impedes government business. it is a violation of federal law to damage government property. it's a felony to enter a restricted building with a deadly weapon. it is a felony to enter a restricted government building and also cause serious bodily injury. those federal felonies are punishable by up to ten years in prison.

we had some crooks in there in pursuit of an insurrection, instigated by a guy who is trying to undertake a coup. >> you know, ali, it's -- here's what i suspect will happen moving forward, because when i heard that only 52 arrests were made, many, if not most of them, for curfew violations, i was surprised. and yet, i think we have to acknowledge that in the middle of an unfolding riot -- let's call this what it was -- you don't necessarily want to divert law enforcement resources to the task of arresting people, and then once you have someone in your custody, it becomes a resource-intensive endeavor to get them transported over to metropolitan police department headquarters on indiana avenue, get them processed, then you have to transfer them to the central cell block where they will wait for their first court

appearance. so, i think at the moment, while these incidents were unfolding, we wanted all of the law enforcement resources right there at the capitol trying to clear the capitol, trying to protect life and property. however, it still sounds unusual, let me put it that way, that they only made 52 lock-ups. now, what i fully expect will happen is they will go through the task of trying to identify all of those faces, those people that we saw breaking into the capitol, those people that we saw inside the capitol, destroying property, engaging in disorderly conduct, some of them engaging in assaultive conduct with assault being another criminal offense in d.c. they will go through facial recognition. they will go through social media. they will interview witnesses who might be able to identify perpetrators, and what we're going to see, i expect, is a

steady stream of arrest warrants being applied for from the judges in d.c. and being executed. so, we're going to see a number of arrests in the coming days for what you are showing on the screen right now, the people who are committing offenses inside the u.s. capitol. >> sort of a little more fascinating to me is who they are. they have been coming to washington from other places. i was seeing on social media they were recruiting for me to ride one way, no hotel needed, we could rent a bus together or whatever the case is. does the motivation play any role in what happens to them legally? >> you know, motive is part of every crime. however, motive is not a legal element that has to be proved. now, motive is a curiosity, and jurors are always intensely interested in what motivates someone to commit crime, but rarely do we have to prove motive as an element of an

offense, with the exception being, perhaps, a hate crime. but as i say, we see the scenes there of property damage, of assaultive behavior. and i am confident that the metropolitan police department, working together with the capitol police, the fbi, and some of the other alphabet soup law enforcement agencies in d.c. will hold as many of these people accountable as they possibly can. >> maybe a bigger legal concept, but to the extent that this was an insurrection that was provoked by somebody who was trying to undertake a coup, which is in and of itself illegal, how do you connect that? in other words, do these people get charged with what they get charged with based on what ari melber said, that they went into a place they weren't supposed to go into, often with weapons and damaged things inside, or is the fact that -- is donald trump in some fashion responsible for any of this? >> oh, donald trump absolutely

has potential criminal exposure for inciting a riot. there are statutes on the books, both federally and locally in the district of columbia. there's concurrent jurisdiction, so the local d.c. law applies, even on federal property, and of course, federal law applies. both of those codes have statutes prohibiting rioting and inciting a riot. and ali, what i saw in the 11:00 a.m. borderline unhinged speech that donald trump gave his, let's call them what they are, troops, it was an incitement to violence. there's no two ways about it. he pointed them verbally in the direction of the capitol. he said, get down there, get on it, stand by, don't let them steal this election from you, and they responded accordingly. if he wasn't inciting them to do exactly what they did, then i don't know what he was doing. and then mind you, ali, in the

midst of it, when president-elect joe biden gave an address to the nation on tv and tried to reduce the temperature and tried to restore order and challenge donald trump to do the same, donald trump took him up on the challenge, and for about 60 seconds, donald trump again incited them by saying, this election was stolen, it was stolen from you, it was stolen from me, it was stolen from us, and he's figuratively asking them, what are you gonna do about it? he actually was adding gas to the fire. that to this old prosecutor looks like it should be investigated for inciting a riot. >> glenn, good to see you, as always. thank you for your clarity. glenn kirschner is a former federal prosecutor and an msnbc legal analyst. the whole world was watching. and what they saw should make us all ashamed. we'll get the global reaction to the violence on capitol hill after this. reaction to the violence on capitol hill

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countries around the world watched in shock as riotous trump supporters stormed capitol hill yesterday. nbc foreign correspondent matt bradley standing by in paris. matt, you know, we've often talked about how as american reporters, we would report on this going on in other countries, governments that wouldn't relinquish power or silencing dissent, attacking journalists. this has been going on for months in america. now everybody's getting to focus on america, reacting to the violence that took place just hours ago. what did it look like? >> reporter: yeah, i mean, ali, i have reported from the middle east for several years, and this looks a lot like how transitions there tend to go, where someone is, you know, resisting power, and they call out their mobs to support them. so, really, throughout the rest of the world, they're no stranger to this kind of thing, but we're also hearing several different kinds of statements.

of course, china and some of these authoritarian regimes who often get criticized by the united states, they've been openly gleeful. chinese media have not been sort of drawing a straight-line connection between what happened at the capitol last night and what was happening in hong kong, which a lot of the protesters in hong kong were openly praised by american politicians, so chinese state media were saying, are you going to praise the protesters, the insurgents on capitol hill who ran into the capitol building? but you know, here in europe, the statements were quite a bit different. they were actually genuine expressions of concern. here's emmanuel macron, the french president, who went as far as to film his own video, mostly in french, but he had some words in english at the very end. here's macron. >> i just wanted to express our friendship and our faith in the united states. what happened today in washington d.c. is not america,

definitely. we believe in the strength of our democracies. we believe in the strength of american democracy. >> reporter: so, boris johnson also, the prime minister of britain and something of a friend of president trump -- he called it disgraceful and said that there should be a peaceful and orderly transfer. power. justin trudeau of canada said that canadians are deeply disturbed, and he said democracy in the u.s. must be upheld and it will be. you know, a lot of these statements, ali, sound like the kind of statements that are issued by the state department of the u.s. against other countries that have disordered transfers of power. so, there is a bit of that shotten freud, especially from countries like china, but we have to remember, it sounds cliche to say, but a lot of these countries really do look to america as an example of democracy. so, this was very disappointing for them. >> matt, thank you for your reporting, as always, matt bradley for us in paris. thank you, sir. joe biden's going to take

office, or at least the oath of office, in 13 days. we'll talk about that next. of office, in 13 days we'll talk about that next

the work of the moment and the work of the next four years must be the restoration of democracy, of decency, honor, respect, the rule of law, just plain, simple decency. the renewal of a politics, it's about solving problems, looking out for one another, not stoking the flames of hate and chaos. >> 13 days, just 13 more days until that man becomes president. my panel's back with me. after four years that seemed like a lifetime i cannot wait for the return of decency. beth fouhy's a senior politics editor for nbc news. michael starr hopkins is a democratic strategist who's worked on several presidential campaigns, including that of president obama. and john hohlenwanger is a senior politics reporter for "business insider."

michael starr hopkins, doesn't sound like a complicated, tough reach, except it is. how does joe biden get to decency in the political environment that we're in? >> look, joe biden couldn't be more perfect for this moment. he's a man whose political superpower is his empathy. he's overcome tragedy. he knows how to talk to our better angels. and so, i think in this moment, he has to do that. this is reminiscent of 2008, when we were going through a crisis and president obama had to steady the ship. joe biden is going to be the person who has to do that exact same thing. and the polar opposite between he and trump -- trump, a man who's small and pathetically, pathetically insufficient at being able to do his job -- i think tells us everything we need to know about what the next administration's going to look like. >> beth fouhy, when i was out traveling before the election, you know, every single week i was talking to republicans and democrats. they were so far apart on the

basic data. this wasn't a discussion about whether minimum wage should be $10 or $12 or single-payer health care should be there versus some other form of universal health care. people were working off of completely different sets of facts, some of them nonsensical. there's a lot to be done here other than empathizing with people and finding common ground. >> well, and i think what you're pointing to is a real problem in our media ecosystem, where there are channels and publications and online platforms that basically feed this misinformation to a very willing audience, this sort of trumper audience who willingly laps it up. and that is going to be a challenge for us going forward, no question about it. i don't know that that's something joe biden can ever solve. what he can do is produce policies that people can agree to. and let's face it, ali, the whole country is now in this coronavirus crisis, we're in an

economic collapse as a result. people want this to be over. they want people to be healthy. they want to get their jobs back. and joe biden's first order of business has to be that. it has to be getting the virus under control and figuring a way out of this crisis of the economy that we are facing. that, hopefully, would be something that could unite these disparate factions that you're talking about, who operate off of different facts. this time, this is a fact that everybody at this point shares, is a desire to see us out of this pandemic. and joe biden can address that. >> so, john, if that happens and there's something that looks like good governance and there's this thing that joe biden brags about, his ability to get along with people, including mitch mcconnell, and we start to see what government actually looks like, if it works, can that lower the temperature on this remarkably polarized, hot thing that we've had for the last four years? >> well, after the past 24 hours, i certainly hope so. we can't go on like this, quite

frankly. what we've seen over the past day shows that we have very real existential threats facing our democracy at president, and we really do need somebody to come forward and unify the country. joe biden is someone with a long record of reaching across the aisle with republican friends in the senate, albeit their relationship hasn't been great lately with senators like lindsey graham, for example. but if he can achieve that, if he can reach across the aisle, if he can come to compromises on another covid stimulus package, for example, perhaps that could lower the temperature, perhaps that could restore confidence in the u.s. government. because right now, i think, a lot of people are doubting the strength of the u.s. government, they are looking at the notion of american exceptionalism as a myth, and they're really wondering where the country's going to go moving forward. >> beth, 30 seconds. who do you think -- what do you think his secret weapon is in getting this done? what's the thing that joe biden

can bring out that can help him establish himself as the one who does bring the temperature down and help us move ahead? >> two newly elected democratic senators from georgia giving him a senate, a democratic senate majority. that's going to mean everything to joe biden. it means it will get his agenda on the floor for consideration by the senate. but it's still going to be a 50-50 senate. it's still going to have to be policies that can produce some bipartisan agreement and compromise, but that democratic senate is going to make all the difference to joe biden. >> beth, always good to see you, my friend. i'm generally speaking grateful for you bringing me into this business, a little sore at you for the last four years. beth fouhy is a senior politics editor for nbc news, michael starr hopkins, democratic campaign strategist and haltiswanger with "business insider." thanks for watching. i'm headed straight to washington, d.c., now. i'll be reporting from there later today.

but you can catch me every weekend on "velshi" at 8:00 a.m. coming up next, our coverage continues with "way too early with kasie hunt." continues with with kasie hunt. it's time for the lowest prices of the season on the sleep number 360 smart bed. can it help with snoring? i've never heard snoring... exactly. no problem. ...and done. and now during the lowest prices of the season, the queen sleep number 360 c2 smart bed is only $899. only for a limited time.

new overnight. after a chaotic day on capitol hill, congress returned to work, and they confirmed joe biden's election victory early this morning. the question is, after yesterday's protests, what will inauguration day look like? and this morning, president trump has put out a statement promising an orderly transition, but it comes amid discussions about the 25th amendment. and the question is, could he be removed from office? and world leaders are reacting to yesterday's scenes of trump supporters storming the capitol. the question is, what is america's standing on the world stage this morning?