with republicans needing to decide what they're going to do, how they're going to handle what comes next. and we just learned from debbie dingell here that democrats are very serious about moving forward with impeachment proceedings in the house. we'll keep an eye on that for you. see you on monday. thank you for getting up "way too early" on this friday morning. don't go anywhere. "morning joe" starts right now. i would like to begin by addressing the heinous attack on the united states capitol. like all americans, i am outraged by the violence, lawlessness and mayhem. we are going to walk down to the capitol and we're going to cheer on our brave senators and congress men and women. and we're probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them. because you'll never take back our country with weakness. the demonstrators who infiltrated the capitol have

defiled the seat of american democracy. to those who engaged in the acts of violence and destruction, you do not represent our country. we love you. you're very special. and to those who broke the law, you will pay. go home and go home in peace. we have just been through an intense election and emotions are high. but now tempers must be cooled and calm restored. today is not the end. it's just the beginning. we must get on with the business of america. my campaign vigorously pursued every legal avenue to contest the election results. mike pence is going to have to come through for us. now congress has certified the results. a new administration will be inaugurated on january 20th. my focus now turns to ensuring a smooth, orderly and seamless transition of power. we will never give up. we will never concede.

>> that is a man who two days ago preached the gospel of insurrection against the united states of america and against the united states constitution. but he actually swore an oath to uphold. rudy giuliani two days ago was talking about combat justice and how they needed to rush up to capitol hill and apply combat justice. don trump jr., talked about the fact that they were coming after members of congress. we're coming to get you. and it's going to be fun. insurrection two days ago. now there are investigations into whether the sitting president of the united states was guilty of insurrection against the united states of america. they need to make sure they do the same with rudy giuliani and don trump jr., because just looking at the face of the

statute, they are guilty of being a part of a conspiracy to commit insurrection against the united states of america. and no puff piece. no script written by terrified staff who saw their world crumbling before them can change that fact. he, his son, and rudy giuliani are guilty of insurrection. they should be arrested, i said it yesterday. they should be booked and they should be sent to jail. if we are a nation of laws, that's exactly what will happen. >> and this was an insurrection, willie, which left one woman dead and many others injured. this insurrection desecrated the united states capitol. the people's house and interrupted democracy in action. >> well, now, mika, a police officer is dead. a capitol hill police officer named brian sicknick was killed by the mob with a fire extinguisher. so the mobs that the president inspired with his rhetoric all

along and especially with his rhetoric that morning as he told them to go to the capitol, that mob killed a capitol police officer. so you had a woman shot inside the capitol just outside the chamber doors. and a police officer is now dead. many others are injured. so that speech yesterday that was written and plugged into the teleprompter is empty, it means nothing. it's beyond too little, it's beyond too late. >> so is that the mob justice? is that the combat justice that rudy giuliani, former prosecutor himself, was talking about? he urged the crowd on to show combat justice and a police officer is dead. one of the rioters is dead.

that blood of course as both major newspapers in missouri have said, that blood is not only on donald trump's hands and rudy giuliani's hands and the hands of donald trump jr., it's also on the hands of josh hawley, mika, who now -- the man who started actually the legislative side of this, that man who refused to back down even after open insurrection against the united states of america, he is now being called on to resign from the united states congress because of the crimes he has committed. >> he also lost his book deal. the publisher has pulled out. it is just another consequence to what appears to be just violent criminal actions. >> and proving once again, willie, that he just may well be the dumbest man in america with a degree from stanford and yale

law school. josh hawley, as he did with facebook and he did with social media platforms, he's doing now with a publisher. he keeps confusing the actions of private industry. of private enterprises with the federal government. he keeps confusing the fact that if you are a profit making center, you can do what the hell you want to do as far as publishing. because the first amendment grants you that right. you can do what the hell you want to do with who you sign up to write a book. and by the way, if in the middle of that contract -- like let's say i have a contract to write a book on lincoln. let's say between now and then i decide to commit treason against the united states of america. i decide to commit acts of sedition like josh hawley did. i decide to lead an insurrection

against the united states of america and inspire actually the ravaging of the united states -- >> the discredited election. >> yeah, i think my publisher has the right to cancel my contract. that's free enterprise at work. >> yeah. for people who don't know, he had a book deal, simon & schuster canceled it and then he condemned the cancel culture and called it a violation of the first amendment, again, a private entity cancelling a book deal is not a violation of the first amendment. but the problem is like with his argument in the senate the other night is of course he knows the difference. of course he knows better. and it makes it all the more cynical and all the more worse. it's a small microcosm of his larger issue which is he knows exactly what he's doing and it's a cynical play for his own ambition. >> i mean, that reaction is

spoiled and titled and unbelievably unself-aware. i can't believe he has to learn this lesson on the national stage with blood on his hands. along with joe, willie and me we have white house reporter for the associated press, jonathan lemire. white house editor for politico, sam stein. and nbc news capitol hill correspondent and host of "way too early," kasie hunt. senior political correspondent for the washington examiner, david drucker. great to have you all on board. >> so jonathan lemire, let's go to you first. give us a quick overview. you know, this is -- again, this is like bill murray in "tootsie." when he's walk aing away with the other play wrights when my play is over, i want people to ask what happened? we were reading a "vanity fair" article and we're getting through it on -- >> it was a nice evening. >> on jared and ivanka. >> yeah.

>> then suddenly i call you and i say, have you read this? there's a video, there's a video. i knew immediately five-alarm fire. i turn on the video and there i am, asking that bill murray question. what did i just see? what happened? what pushed the president to do what "the new york times" is labelling a concession speech? >> joe, that was a terrific impression of me, thank you for that. yes, what we saw last night was sort of an unexpected in some ways video. but i might argue another bill murray applies and that's "groundhog day" where we see the president amidst a crisis and charlottesville is a good example and he encourages it and only after 24 to 48 hours of immense pressure does he go the other way and gives out a scripted remark to try to bring

down the temperature in the face of criticism from democrats and republicans alike. traditionally, there's another term that after the scripted act he reverts back to his true self. we will see if that happens here in the next day or so when it comes to this. which is now of course the greatest crisis of the trump presidency. but we'll pull back real quick, joe, and let you know how this came about. the remarkable 180 from wednesday when the president in his tweets and in the video told the protesters that he loved them, that they are special. there was no condemnation of the violence, of the righteous siege of the u.s. capitol that has now claimed several lives. he instead on wednesday holed up in the west wing of the private -- his private study off the oval office, watching the coverage. never once reaching out to vice president pence who was in danger at the capitol. he never picked up the phone to call him. he simply was angry that pence had not done his bidding in terms of objecting to the

certification of the electoral college vote in congress. what's happened here in the last 24 hours, this is an effort -- this video from the president, to stave off the forces trying to oust him from office early. it's two different tracks. we are hearing members of congress, democrats, house speaker pelosi, minority leader -- soon to be majority leader schumer calling for impeachment again. members of the house saying they want to vote on impeachment again which would leave the president the first president ever to be impeached two times. we saw one of his allies, lindsey graham and others say they're also disturbed, outraged by the president and said that all options are on the table. perhaps signaling that there wouldn't be enough votes in the republican senate to stave off a conviction this time around. we have talk of the 25th amendment. we have had two cabinet officials, devos and chao both resign in the last 24 hours out of protest. there's no signal though that vice president pence would get behind a move, the 25th

amendment, to remove the president from the office and the talk on that has cooled slightly we can report in the next day -- in last 24 hours. but that is still out there. and of course, final piece of this, the possibility of a criminal prosecution awaiting the president for inciting this violence and that more than anything is what led him to deliver that video yesterday. warnings from the white house counsel and others that he could be held liable for the violence at the capitol. so we saw this scripted video, he does not use the word victory on concede, that is what it was. for first time on camera, he publicly bends to reality and acknowledges that there will be a new administration on january 20th. and at least in these words he says he's committed to a peaceful transition of power. >> all right. so anyone who thinks that this is all of a sudden some sort of last minute change on the president's part can look at where we stand right now. for example, with the coronavirus.

where we are at 4,000 deaths now. >> a day. >> record deaths in a day. the botched nature of this presidency should give anyone pause by letting him move forward unchecked in the next 12 days. let's get into those calls from over 200 congressional lawmakers for president trump to immediately leave office. here is house speaker nancy pelosi. >> in calling for this seditious act, the president has committed an unspeakable assault on our nation and our people. i join the senate democrat leader in calling on the vice president to remove this president by immediately invoking the 25th amendment. if the vice president and cabinet do not act, the congress may be prepared to move forward with impeachment. that is the overwhelming sentiment of my caucus. >> though impeachment is on the table the speaker made clear that the preferred avenue for

removal is invoking the 25th amendment. in a video announcement, adam kinzinger of illinois became the first republican congressman to call for invoking the 25th amendment and outside of washington, maryland's republican governor larry hogan said, quote, the country would be better off if trump resigned or was removed. massachusetts governor charlie baker also a republican echoed that sentiment saying he believes the president should quote, step down and the orderly transition of power should be led by vice president pence. sources tell cnbc, secretary of state pompeo and steve mnuchin have discussed invoking the 25th amendment though with concerns the process would take too long. here is the take yesterday from former white house chief of staff john kelly. >> the cabinet should meet and

have a discussion. i don't think it will happen, but i think the cabinet should meet and discuss this because the behavior yesterday and in the weeks and months before that has been outrageous from the president. and what happened on capitol hill yesterday is a direct result of his, you know, poisoning the minds of people with the lies and the frauds. >> if you were in the cabinet right now, would you vote to remove him from office? >> yes. i would. >> former attorney general william barr released a scathing response to the deadly mob violence at the u.s. capitol. in a statement to the associated press, barr said, in part this. orchestrating a mob to pressure congress is inexcusable. the president's conduct yesterday was a betrayal of his office and supporters.

that's bill barr. donald trump has now lost two cabinet members and more than half a dozen administration officials. education secretary betsy devos was the latest to hand in her resignation which is effective today. elaine chao, transportation secretary and wife of senate majority leader mitch mcconnell, also resigned on thursday. they are two of the longest serving cabinet members of the trump administration. nine other administration officials have resigned since wednesday's attack on the capitol. they come from the justice department, national security and from inside the white house. in is concern among some that more top officials could resign including national security adviser robert o'brien and white house counsel pat cipollone. "the washington post" reports at least four republican senators including utah's mike lee have been privately asking them to stay because there needs to be quote strong leadership at the

white house in the 12 days that trump has left in office. >> well, willie, we have been hearing calls on the editorial pages of "the new york times" and "the washington post" for donald trump to step down. but even the "wall street journal" editorial board which too often has engaged in just mindless anti-anti-trumpism and playing to the cheap seats over the past four years, even "the wall street journal" editorial board is now saying, it's time for donald trump to just leave. >> yeah, the "wall street journal" has a new op-ed calling for president trump to resign. if mr. trump wants to avoid a second impeachment, his best path would be to take personal responsibility and resign. this would be the cleanest solution since it would immediately turn presidential duties over to mr. pence. we know an act of grace by mr. trump is not likely. in any case, this week has finished him as a serious

figure. he's cost the republicans the white house, the senate and the congress. he's lied to them about the election and the ability of congress and mr. pence to overturn it. he has refused to accept the basic bargain of democracy which is to accept the result, win or lose. it is best for everyone himself included if he goes away quietly. so kasie hunt, you have been talking to people on capitol hill. some of whom including this morning on "way too early" with congresswoman debbie dingell talking about the possibility of impeachment. i think the 25th amendment most people agree and correct me if i'm wrong is going to be difficult because you need the vice president to be on board. he's not on board and is not entertaining the thought of the 25th amendment. is impeachment 12 days from the end of president trump's term even possible? >> i do think it's possible, willie. i was just talking to debbie dingell the congresswoman from

michigan who is pretty close to house speaker nancy pelosi about this possibility on "way too early" and she said, quote, i think democrats are going to move forward with another impeachment. and that really stuck out to me. pelosi obviously raised it at her news conference yesterday. that was coordinated with chuck schumer to try and send a public message to the vice president pence to say, please do this. please send us a signal about whether you're going to invoke the 25th amendment. and it seems like the signal that's been received is that okay, that is not on the table that is not going to happen. but i do think that -- we're still in the stages of reporting this out, but what happened on wednesday completely shifted the ground for all of the obvious reasons. but it seems as though there is confidence that there is enough opposition to this president perhaps now among senate republicans that if the house were to send those articles over that we might see a different outcome. you know, i don't want to go too far down this road because like

i said we're still reporting this out. but my sense sitting here this morning talking to you is we have seen a potential ground swell that is significant enough and listening to that "wall street journal" editorial board comments i think it really underscores that point and that reality that this is -- it's a realistic possibility that we could see it. now, dingell also told me and we know it's obvious from looking at the calendar that time is very short. and there are questions -- congress isn't supposed to come back into session until the inauguration, they have all gone home. we have to figure out or they have to figure out what the logistics of that will look like and i'm going to be reporting that out today and how they'd move forward with this process. while we normally see these long, extended hearings, that's not necessary. and if the house does pass articles of impeachment the senate is required under the law to have a trial. so we could be seeing the beginnings of that, willie. >> again, only 12 days left in

the term. it's a lot of business to take care of in the short time. sam stein, everything we just laid out and heard from kasie, all of the resignations we just put forward there, bill barr speaking out, john kelly speaking out, the "wall street journal," that all probably pushed donald trump to make that videotaped statement that was written for him last night. he feels the walls closing, he knows what's ahead of him. what is going on at the white house? what is left at his side? who is advising him, who in fact pushed him out there to make that speech last night? >> right, you know, good question. one thing i'd say is i think the threat of criminal prosecution is also playing a compelling role in getting trump to make that statement. as to who's advising him, all of our reporting suggests it's an incredibly tightening group of aides who are among the most loyal who are sticking around. we have reporting at the -- that the white house is a ghost town

at this juncture. people are padding their resumes, wondering if they should stick around to collect the work benefits or should protest. you have high-ranking aides who are leaving which is just exasperating the situation because they're leaving the loyalists in their wake. and whether the president is hearing much of it. the video he put says he recognizes the gravity of the situation, but, you know, all of this talk of the 25th amendment, we have been not been picking up much reporting that it's that serious and when you see people like elaine chao and betsy devos leave, the question is why didn't they stay around and if they were so concerned about the situation, why didn't they stay around and potentially deal with it themselves? right? so those are the questions in the white house. there's 12 more days. there's a sense that anything could potentially happen. that no one actually knows where -- what the next step is. and like i just said, you know, the fact that it's the loyalists

who are the last one there is giving people now pause. i mean, that is very valid. do you mean people who have some ability to deliver hard truths to the president to stick around precisely so they can deliver the hard truth? >> there's zero trust that the president will stick to what he said in the video yesterday. >> of course. >> here is ted cruz, who had a huge part in all of this, also throwing president trump under the bus yesterday. take a look. >> the president's language and rhetoric often goes too far. i think yesterday in particular the president's language and rhetoric crossed the line and it was reckless. i disagree with it. and i have disagreed with the president's language and rhetoric for the last four years and i have said so many, many times. if you look to what i have said, you will not find me using the same language or rhetoric. >> so that's --

>> wait. he said that he's been standing up to the president for the past four years. >> this man is pitiful. >> he's shameless and he's scared. it's okay to attack his wife. it's okay to accuse his father of killing jfk. but -- >> people make different choices in life. >> i guess they do. >> joe, a question for you. >> doing the best he can. >> the question about elaine chao and betsy devos who resigned perhaps in disgust. they must be so shocked. >> yeah. they didn't see that coming. >> i know, it's amazing. >> elaine chao is standing next to donald trump when he was trying to do clean-up in charlottesville. i mean, how could -- >> these people, really? you want to clean up your legacy now? sorry, way too late. but the bigger question is i think they took the weaker way out. if they really wanted to do something for this country they would have stayed in and helped invoke the 25th. is this their lame way of being

cowardly and avoiding being put on the spot to ask whether or not the president should be removed from office which he should? >> here's what -- this is what -- since i'm such an old man, this is what i have been telling white house people for years and i actually told some people inside the trump administration for the past four years. you just think he's going to be around forever. he's not. he's going to leave washington. he's going to go to mar-a-lago. he's going to be golfing around the world. he is going to be getting richer, as rich as he can. and you're going to be stuck in washington, d.c., holding a resume trying to figure out where you get your next job with your shattered reputation. of course, you know, that's a speech that i have given to people halfway through several administrations as you know, mika. who when they're in the white

house think they'll be there forever and they won't. in this case with elaine chao and betsy devos, i don't know that they were really thought through the whole 25th amendment deal. i don't think that would have much of a chance of passing away, but they wanted to get away from him as fast as possible. he'd radioactive. same thing with ted cruz. david drucker, i want to go to you. this is not one of the ground noise where you have to separate the signal from the ground noise as an old navy pilot once told me. what happened two days ago obviously was extraordinarily important in the history of this country. a very dark day. at the same time, the news that's going to be impacting washington, d.c. and lawmakers over the next two years is that jon ossoff put democrats in charge of the united states senate. which means marco rubio is not

going to be the chairman of the intel committee which he's been planning to be over the past two months. he's going to be the ranking member. lindsey graham is not going to the chairman of the judiciary committee. he's going to be the ranking member. now, i was never in the minority. you know, i got elected four times, i was always in the majority, and every republican i talked to said, boy, you don't ever want to be in the minority. it is horrible. so you look at these people turning on donald trump. we're overlooking another massive development two days ago. donald trump just made 50 republican senators for the most part irrelevant in their day to day lives as legislators. >> well, joe, it certainly isn't as bad as being in the minority of the house which may be about the worst job in america. because at least in the senate everything runs by unanimous consent and you still have a

legislative filibuster and nothing really happens without bipartisan support. but you're right in that most republicans definitely believe republicans in the senate that the reason they lost two georgia seats -- and think about that for a minute, those of us steeped in politics for the last generation. the democrats control the two senate seats after winning a pair of runoff elections so this is going to give joe biden a few headaches and a lot more room to maneuver and leave republicans number one, unable to stop the president-elect from getting the cabinet he wants and through a process known as reconciliation getting some of the fiscal policy that he wants because you don't actually have to be -- >> david is frozen. we'll get back to david in a second. he froze. i want to go to kasie hunt though really quickly. and talking about the development on the hill which again we haven't talked much

about. if the riots hadn't happened f insurrection against the united states had happened two days ago, we would have been talking about the shocking development in the united states senate. there are a lot of ways that democrats taking control are going to change things. but we are still looking at a united states senate that's now with two democrats from a pretty conservative state. we're going to have about ten legislators that have all of the incentive in the world to strike compromise. to pass moderate legislation. to be seen as people who get things done. >> that's right, joe. there's going to be a lot of power in the middle of that conference because it does as david was talking about it takes agreement to make anything happen in the u.s. senate and any single member can hold things up.

can change the dynamic. that means that if joe manchin wants to have a meeting with susan collins and lisa murkowski and some of the other republicans who have shown a willingness to work with democrats that they may actually wield some significant power. i think with joe biden in the white house, you know, this is the kind of environment that he thrived in when he was a member of the senate. he is still a man of the united states senate. he always will be. even from the white house. he loves -- he loves it and he was this for many years. you know this, joe, better than anyone else. he i think will be willing to watch that process play out. i mean, the last years in -- at the capitol have been defined by chuck schumer and mitch mcconnell, two people who run the committees that get their guys elected. it has been all-out campaign partisan warfare from the top. dictated from the top. and chuck schumer will have to make a decision is that how he wants to move forward or does he

want to allow some space for these potential bipartisan agreements to happen? but i have a sense that the white house -- that joe biden is going to want to potentially see a different way of doing business in the senate. now, he could run into some trouble from his left flank. progressives are going to have more power now that the u.s. senate is going to be in the hands of democrats. if they are saying they don't like what's happening, they potentially could tie nancy pelosi's hands in the house, for example. her majority is incredibly narrow. this is a tough narrow to thread, but you're absolutely right that there are a lot more opportunities now with democrats in charge of everything, joe. >> so david drucker, one of the reasons why -- let me get back to you and see if we have your wi-fi working again. one of the reasons why we have had such a divide in the united states senate is because, you know, red states have been electing red senators. republican senators.

blue states have been electing blue senators, but here we have on the democratic side joe manchin from west virginia overwhelmingly went for trump. hickenlooper from a purple state. kristen sinema and mike kelly from a traditionally rock solid republican state. ossoff and warnock from traditionally republican states. then you have romney, collins, murkowski, lindsey graham and others. you're going to have a hell of a center in the united states senate that's going to be able to get things done. we saw it actually when they were talking about covid relief and mcconnell said it wasn't going to happen and manchin kept going and with republicans he got it done. >> and so i think there's an opportunity for a lot of these lawmakers to work together in the senate to force leadership's hand.

what i'm interested to see is how the upcoming 2022 elections and it's not too early to talk about it because you have a divided senate. the republicans will be eyeing a return to majority and the democrats will have a lot of pressure from the left flank to deliver on bold, progressive legislation that not all democrats are going to be in favor of. chuck schumer still who is going to be the senate majority leader in just a few days is going to have to look over his shoulder for a primary challenge from potentially from congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez. you have a republican party that on the one hand at least in washington it appears as though donald trump's hold on them has been broken, but you still have a grass roots voting population among republican voters who show up in primaries, who we don't know that their opinion of president trump has been changed. we know they believed him when he said that the election was stolen so they are going to be

looking over their shoulder potentially heading into the 2022 primaries. so there are all of these competing political forces and we're really going to see how -- have to see how all of this shakes out before we really understand the long-term impact of both the georgia senate races and the insurrection and sort of the storming of the u.s. capitol on wednesday. >> well, the acting u.s. attorney general in d.c., mike sherwin, charged 55 people yesterday for their roles at the riot at the capitol. nbc news has learned that charges range from unlawful entry to assault and theft. eight suspects face gun charges including one who allegedly had a military-style semiautomatic rifle and 11 molotov cocktails. sherwin says federal and local investigators are now searching social media for photos and video clips of suspects engaged

in unlawful activity. the department of justice expects this search for suspects to last all year. the fbi issued a public call wednesday night for information on suspects and has received more than 4,000 tips so far. so they're going to find these people, willie. >> and of course, this incident is raising serious questions about what went wrong with security at the capitol on wednesday. defense department officials said yesterday federal law enforcement and washington, d.c. officials requested only modest support from the national guard. not anticipating the day's large-scale violence. pentagon officials said more troops were offered but city officials turned them down. joining us with her reporting on this, nbc news correspondent julia ainsley. so we have heard that the pentagon offered help, but the national guard was offered to the capitol police on wednesday a couple of times during and after. what exactly was the request and

why would capitol police turn it down? >> well, yes, i mean, there was an offer for the national guard to be involved. there were also offers from a the justice department, dhs was part of these discussions to try to get the vast array of federal agencies involved here. there are 32 law enforcement agencies just in this city, but instead, the capitol police turned down some of those offers and also the mayor here sent out a letter to those agencies saying that she did not want federal support, that she did not request apart from parks department and capitol police and secret service because she looked back to the mistakes made this summer -- you can remember the protesters outside the white house, where there were unidentified federal agents not coordinating with the d.c. police. so instead, we did not have the support of the national guard. you did not have customs and

border protection. you did not have the people from the bureau of prisons, s.w.a.t. teams, atf and i should emphasize if they had more people on there they could have made more arrests on the spot rather than where it can take them up to a year to track down all of the people. >> so julia, will it's underline this. so the d.c. police got several requests or several offers of help because of course we all knew that january 6th was going to be a tumultuous day. we saw it on social media, we saw it in mainstream media. and yet, the capitol hill police rejected that help and also the city of washington, d.c., rejected that help as well? >> that's right, joe. it's astounding because you and i -- you know, we could see an open source media that this was an event that was building in

its fervor and its numbers, but yesterday the city said that they did not see any intelligence that could have indicated that we would be looking at a situation like this. it was really surprising. same goes with capitol police. they told the justice department please don't send people, we have this handled and i have spoken to justice department officials who said they watched in horror on wednesday, wanting to send more people. by the time they were able to help, they were really doing the clean-up duty. trying to find out if there were ieds shoved into doors at the capitol. that's the level they were brought in. >> so willie, during this, while we were watching this on tv, i'm sure you were saying the same thing that i was saying. which is, where the hell are the police? where the hell is the national guard? i mean, i said it yesterday morning on tv. where the hell was -- you know, the d.c. police?

where the hell was the national guard? where were all of the other law enforcement agencies while these people were destroying the united states capitol? it ends up that the capitol hill police leadership actually decided that they didn't want that help. and i've got to say the same thing for the city of d.c. if anybody in washington, d.c., thinks -- washington, d.c.'s government thinks that it would be an infringement upon their powers to have the national guard come and protect and defend the capitol grounds, you need to take a look at where you are and what city you govern. because this is the heart of american democracy. if the national guard can't protect and defend capitol grounds, then what the hell do we have the national guard for?

>> and as you look at the pictures that we just showed of rank and file members of the capitol police being completely overwhelm and doing their best, one of them was killed, a 12-year veteran brian sicknick was killed in all of this, they were completely let down as you say by the leadership. by the way, the head of the capitol police tendered his resignation next week. look at this. a capitol hill officer, he's on his own, he has a baton that he has to pick up. he doesn't know the intentions of the people charging up the stairs after him. these men and women did their very best but they were undergunned, they were overrun and julia ainsley, this doesn't add up. washington knows how to do this, they proved it during the black lives matter protests. why would the capitol police as you said knowing what was coming, this was not a

spontaneous gathering. this had been planned for weeks and weeks with the explicit intention of stopping this vote which meant they were going to go to the capitol, why would the capitol police turn down extra help? what would be the harm in having the national guard there with them? >> well, i think that they were just looking back at what had happened this summer. they were also probably looking at the decisions being made by the city. this is their territory. i'm not defending the decision they made. these are just the reasons we're seeing. but we're also told that the intelligence did not indicate they would be seeing anything like this. maybe that's a failure of that intelligence. it's surely a failure of leadership and not a failure on the part of the frontline officers who were put in the position that they could not handle. but it seems they did not see this coming and really, they were responding to the overwhelming public sentiment of the summer that federal officers were going too far. we saw that in the 60-day

occupation of dhs officers in portland. we saw that outside the white house this summer. what we were talking about after those protests were how federal law enforcement went too far and so perhaps that was in their calculation. it was certainly in the calculation of the city. perhaps that was in the calculation of the capitol police. there's so little we can say about what the capitol police was thinking and it's because they do so little to communicate with the media. i'm sure kasie has understood this too in her position. they rarely do interactions with the media. we saw one statement yesterday. the police chief sund did not return calls to nancy pelosi before he resigned. it's hard to get a window into their decision making. >> well, they need to stop being isolated and be held accountable and all leadership including the

guy who rightly is being forced to step down need to go and testify in front of the committees that fund them and if there isn't full transparency they all need to be fired. they -- capitol hill cop is dead because of their poor leadership and please, don't even start with oh, the intelligence said -- look on social media. >> yeah. >> we all know this. the president of the united states said it's going to be wild. you don't need an ovaltine decoder ring to figure out what it's going to be wild on january 6th, be there, it will be wild. then in the morning the capitol hill cops or donald trump talking about taking it all up to capitol hill. there's trump, january 6th, see you in d.c. it's going to be wild. rudy giuliani calling for quote,

combat justice. don trump jr. saying what? we're coming to get you. no excuses. no excuses whatsoever. sam stein, no excuses and by the way, there is a happy medium for federal law enforcement officers. there is a happy medium between sending unmarked army paramilitary type personnel out to portland and grabbing people off the street and throwing them into unmarked vans. there is a happy medium between that and setting the national guard up around the perimeters of capitol grounds so violent insurrectionists inspired by donald trump jr. and rudy giuliani and the president of the united states can't storm the capitol. >> right. to put a button on this, the morning of and the day before wednesday when we were doing our editorial meetings and assigning our reporters, it was evident to

the newsroom that this was coming. we put reporters on the ground knowing that they had been talking about online storming the capitol. stopping lawmakers from getting in the capitol. we knew that the action that day was not going to be near the white house on the ellipse. it was doing to be on capitol hill. so if we reporters and editors could understand that, i fail to comprehend whose job it is to anticipate this stuff fail to get it. that's the first one. second thing, maybe kasie can jump in here, which is we're doing to run a risk i think of potentially overreactioning to this event. if you know a big mob is going to happen on capitol hill, prepare for the mob. but what i'm worried about is that they're going to overcorrect and they're going to shut down the capitol essentially for the future. you know, people who have worked on the capitol, people who, you know, whose job it is to go there day to day, they know that one of the important features of

that building is that it is accessible to the public. there is already talk of making it a quasi military complex. that doesn't need to be the solution here. the solution is to have good intel and use that to ramp up security when you know that a mob is coming to put it under siege. so i don't know if julia has any reporting on this or kasie has any thoughts on this, but i'm wondering, is there going to be pushback, is there going to be debate over the right level of security going forward, are we going to overcorrect for this mistake? >> yeah, i think that's an excellent question. could this be an overcorrection? i think that's a debate that will happen, but more importantly we need to look at the purview here and the fact that if anything happens on federal property anywhere around d.c. and there's a lot of federal property in d.c., there is a -- you have a number -- you have over 30 law enforcement agencies that could respond any

of those problems. but the capitol has stayed in the purview of the capitol police, so the question going forward, do they lose any of those powers? what discussions go in ahead of time when there's a specifically capitol threat? and i think that that actually may be something that congress will have to decide. but i do think we should be watching for the next issue. it could be at the inauguration. let's see what the security looks like in the coming days. >> julia ainsley, thank you very much. you and ken dilanian, always great reporting. i appreciate it. a couple of things on what sam said. first of all, you secure the location first. that's what matters. there's a constitution and members of the house and the senate have to be able to carry out their constitutional duties. >> a woman was killed. >> without fear of being harmed. so they need to figure out how to secure the location first. and then they can open it up and

let it serve as a museum or whatever they want to serve it as. maybe people for next six months until capitol police have their you know what together, maybe for the next six months people can come and walk through the capitol when it's out of session. but we can't have a close call like this again. members of the house and the senate have to feel free to be able to walk around in the people's house. the heart of american democracy without having the risk of them facing bodily harm or ever having to go hide in closets again because they fear for their lives from mobs. so that's the first thing. second thing, willie geist, regarding sam stein, i don't know if you know it or not, but i had no idea he was going to work for politico, but when i did i did something that i never

have done before. everybody knows what you and i invest in. >> well, yeah. >> off track betting. >> the dogs. >> off track betting. >> scratch off tickets. >> it is a diversified portfolio. scratch off tickets, the dogs, otv. but the second i heard that sam stein was going to politico, i took all of the winnings from the dog track over the last six days, we do it every day, by the way i piled it all on politico. let me tell you something, i made a lot of money on the back of sam stein. it's humming now, sam. we're really excited. straight from prep school to politico that's pretty good. >> never lose investing -- >> this is the most -- yeah, this is the most important news of the week, definitely, my new job. thank you. >> sam, congratulations. >> sam, congratulations. what's the worst thing that's happened to you since you have

been at politico? >> well, i'm living it right now. so -- >> and now you know why we love having sam stein on. all right. >> we'll get back to personnel moves at politico in just a moment. but for now, let's get back to the news. there was a clear indication as we were just saying on the web that this attack on capitol hill was coming. and nbc news reporter ben collins tweeted this. operation occupy the capitol wasn't on the dark web, it wasn't private dms. it wasn't even on 4chan, it was on instagram. no intelligence suggested there would be a breach of the u.s. capitol, he asks, really? joining us right now is brandy saad rozny, michael schmidt and "new york times" contributing opinion writer, kara swisher. brandy, i want to start with you. you and ben have done such amazing reporting in the darkest corners of the web over the last

several years. as you have been saying since the attack started it could not have been more clear what was coming. it was late out explicitly in open source. you didn't have to be an intelligence officer to understand what the goal, what the objective was of that rally on wednesday. >> yeah. what we saw on wednesday was a culmination of a year of the worst disinformation, you know, this country has seen in a long time and a pandemic and social media and it all came to life at the capitol. we had the militia groups we had been seeing all summer. they had been at state houses, they had been at black lives matter protests armed to the teeth and there to intimidate and threaten. one group in michigan threatened and had this plan to kidnap the governor and then we saw people that looked just the same in the

capitol, in the chambers with zip ties. you know? i see the pictures, it makes me sick to my stomach, but we have been seeing all of this come -- happen in drips and drabs through various states and we have been seeing this on social media. not on 4chan, and it seeped into the big social media platforms. the militia groups that were planning things -- [ indiscernible ] over the summer, they planned this on facebook that's what happened again in the capitol. these groups were planning on facebook, taking big buses, going in to the capitol. this was all plain to see. it's unclear how they could have missed the proud boys openly planning on telegram or the qanon extremistss planning on te

buss. >> it wasn't specific. it wasn't let's do to washington, let's have a rally out near capitol hill and the white house and then everybody get on the bus and do home. they had a specific objective on that day, didn't they? >> yeah. they were calling it independence day. they had t-shirts made. there were hash tag campaigns. #civil war 2. they were planning to go to the capitol and take it over. they were planning on -- this was their independence day, 1776. you had all of the patriot larping talk. but they were going to start a second civil war and they were going to take back the country that donald trump has been telling them for a year has been stolen from them. >> and michael schmidt, with "the new york times," you obviously have written a book about donald trump and william barr's close relationship, how he really was his roy cohn, but

it seems even roy cohn has abandoned ship now and it's going to be most likely judge merrick garland who is going to be cleaning this up for the next year. >> yeah. look, in barr coming out and praising garland which was sort of -- i was a little bit surprised to see. especially with all of the attention being given to garland as someone who will restore the justice department. i mean that's a major theme coming out of the biden administration, which is this restoration of the damage done to the justice department. and i think a lot of democrats blame bill barr for that. they certainly blame trump for it. but they saw bill barr as really the accelerant there. the person who really helped turn the justice department in the direction that donald trump wanted so badly.

this part for merrick garland, clearing up this part, will be the easy part. the far harder part will be dealing with the president, dealing with don jr. dealing with rudy giuliani's role in this. and everything else related to the president. as we reported yesterday, the president considering a self-pardon for himself. such a move would almost push the justice department even more to have to investigate the president because what it would be essentially saying is that the president can declare himself above the law. if you're the justice department, and you do not try and get that matter into court and you allow it to stand, you set a new precedent that says that the president who under justice department policy cannot be indicted while they're in office can now not be charged after they leave office and

completely absolve themselves. we have essentially created a king. so if the president does self-pardon there will be even more pressure on merrick garland to do something. >> i find it hard to believe that the president will be self-pardon in the roberts court. by the way, history being made today. we're brady bunch plus one. the tin box, please don't try this at home. it will fry your circuits. a woman who reports on that all the time, kara swisher is with us. i'm sorry, that was a terrible segue. that's all i have. >> that's okay. i'm jan over here. >> so please the tin box is making my dizzy, take it down. so you know, i have always sort of rolled my eyes at how ham fisted and obvious mark zuckerberg's political moves

have been after the '16 election. i am going to go out to ohio and talk to people who voted for trump and obama. and then of course, halfway through he becomes best friends with, you know, all of these not right-wingers. these fascists. he has them over to their house and makes nice with all of the trumpists. and now that donald trump is falling out of favor and he wants to kiss up to joe biden, suddenly donald trump is banned from facebook. what can you tell us about that? >> we have been writing about this a lot. the political winds are changing and they recognize that at facebook. facebook very much focuses on whatever administration is in office so they don't have this kind of thing happening, which is people wondering what to do about facebook and how to regulate it and not just facebook, but other social media sites. i think one of the things brandy was saying before, you could see it coming. on monday, on my other -- my podcast i said there's going to be violence at the capitol and

someone later called me and said, how did you know that? i can read facebook, i can read twitter, i can read all these sites. it was not just that, but it was how president trump was making it -- was amping it up as these sites were doing it. sometimes the things don't result in this kind of situation. but you saw this happen in myanmar and in india. you saw it happening across the globe by these social media sites not regulating themselves properly themselves and then a leader -- some kind of leader calling for some kind of action and then as night follows day this is exactly what was going to happen at the capitol. as brandy said, it was plain -- you had to have instagram what was going on. then post it, you could see all of the people at the capitol were using it as a social media event, hey, look at me, i'm doing crimes here. which means they now have testified against themselves, right, on social media and are proud of it. so it's nothing -- nothing here

is hidden whatsoever. >> so kara, you obviously have been reporting on this. we have heard a lot about how many people who work at facebook have been disheartchedishearten last several years because zuckerberg and others there have tied themselves closely to donald trump and i'm sorry, we need to call fascists fascists and those who run cover for him on platforms like facebook. how much of a problem has that been inside the company by a disheartened group of employees who see their leaders snuggling up to fascists? >> well, they don't do anything about it and facebook is -- i always felt is one of the most complicit companies in silicon valley, but one of the problems is they have the long debates about these things but ultimately the company is run by mark. mark has complete control of the company and that's how decisions

are made there. i see on one side -- i do see what he's trying to do. but only he can control it. i think, you know, there's not much these employees can do except complain and after a while one facebook employee -- very high rank at facebook said how many times can you tell the ceo he's an idiot? not many, i guess. i would quit obviously. but it's a problem because these companies are run like empires by some of these ceos. >> and we have heard an awful lot about section 230. i was there when we voted it in. it needs to be done away with, it certainly needs to be radically modified because the reason we passed that back in the '90s far different than the reason that facebook wants to keep it. but i'm more curious about the

antitrust laws and they came about because the telegraph helped to create the trusts. here we are in 2020 and once again a communication revolution is creating massive trusts that need to be broken up. >> absolutely. >> is there -- is there any belief that the huge trust, the huge monopolies that google, facebook have are going to be broken up in the new congress? >> well, one of the things you have to think about is 230 does not need to be eliminated it needs to be reformed. the minute you eliminate it you hurt a lot of people you don't think you're hurting. so reform has to happen and what's been happening is you have president trump doing these badly written executive orders that make no sense. you have people that don't know what it does saying things about it. so what you have to do is you have to have antitrust, fines new laws like privacy laws. there's all kinds of things you can do and then you have to treat each company differently because they're not all the

same. so you have to be sophisticated and in regulating them. what's happened this has sort of become -- everything has become reductive and twitchy rather than really smart legislative work that needs to be done. so i think the biden administration will step in here and now is an opportunity to have a bipartisan discussion about it which is away from the ridiculous ideas that it's biased against -- it's biased against the whole country is what it is. because what it does is it creates this melee. so let's have a really smart discussion about what needs to happen and that is critical and what power is. because it's all about power. it's all about unfettered power and inability to hold anybody to account here. >> let's talk about an issue i know about, because it impacted me personally and you know about because you wrote about it. a woman who died 19 years ago vilified by the president of the united states, accused of having

an illicit affair, accused of being pregnant so she was killed. that's what twitter and that's what facebook has been making money off of for years. the husband writes a letter begging twitter to block that. and facebook. they make money. so now what i don't understand is how 230 be reformed in a way that allows him to sue twitter for defaming his dead wife because he can't sue the president. because the president has immunity as well. then, you look at all of the other people who -- they're not public figures, look at people who aren't public figures whose lives are also ruined by twitter, by facebook. because they have complete and total immunity. >> yeah, well, that's the problem. it's got to be reformed but a lot of the stuff is going to happen is small companies are going to get hurt in a way that big companies -- facebook has

more lawyers than they have ftc people investigating facebook. they have more pr people. so the big companies like with a lot of the laws, the big companies are going to be just fine. what's going to happen is you have to figure out what the legal liability is and give the companies some legal liability. maybe there's a way for larger companies not to have this immunity and small everyone companies to be more protected. i think if you get rid of 230 and most people agree, nothing will be on the internet. everyone will pull everything down and that's not what people want. we've been able to regulate wall street and planes and all kinds of things. the way it's been done is either nothing or these sort of sweeping ideas and, you know, i think when you're a legislator that's what legislation is about is come one a smart way to figure out how to control some of the things. the last part is it's come of it is uncontrollable, this stuff gets amplified and weaponized and here we are today. then it's broadcast for

everyone. we're like living in a very strange and dystopian time. >> yeah. and as kurt anderson said in evil geniuses, for some reason, we have all sat back and allowed these giant tech companies to basically draw up their own rules without stepping in. that has to change. jonathan lemire has a question for michael schmidt. jonathan? >> hey, michael. connecting the conversation here about the what led to the violence at the capitol on wednesday and signs that were missed we certainly know that the president of the united states, you know, encouraged some of this with his remarks at the rally, with the tweets in the days ahead. so you talked earlier about your reporting he may self-pardon. he has only 12 days left of the legal protections afforded by his office. what legal challenges could he face because of this? because of the rally on wednesday. we know the white house counsel was on him yesterday to put out

that video in an effort to protect himself. but this is a matter that's probably not going away. what fears does the white house about charges that could stem from wednesday once he leaves office? >> so the u.s. attorney in washington is saying yesterday they may have to look at the president's role in inciting the violence. not saying that they are. but basically saying that this may be something that they have to look at. that's a pretty unusual thing to hear from a law enforcement official, particularly a federal law enforcement official. that would be something we have certainly heard at the state level from state prosecutors or attorneys general about looking at the trump organization. but for a u.s. attorney who is appointed by the president, working for the justice department which is run by the president saying that they may have to look at this, it seems pretty significant to me. if there's anything that donald trump sort of understands it's,

you know, the potential for things that could damage him and could hurt him. i think that people around him will likely say, look there's no downside to you just trying this pardon thing because we should make the courts figure it out. we should -- we can never go back and pardon you after you leave office because you will no longer be president. so why don't we just do this and force it into the courts and force the courts to ultimately make a decision because they're the ones that would ultimately would have to decide whether a pardon could insulate the president from the prosecution. if the president was indicted in something. the president has talked a lot about this. he's talked a lot about, you know, to his aides about whether they want pardons. he's talked to rudy giuliani about whether he wants a pardon. these would be preemptive pardons, pardons for crimes that people have not been charged with. which is a bit unusual. but the president believes he has this power and this authority and he has told people

that he really likes the pardon power. it is something that can create instantously loyalty to those around him and for 12 more days he has that power and it's the most absolute power as constitution scholars call it. there's not a lot of regulations on it. the president could write it on the back of a envelope and say i pardon myself. a good lawyer would tell him he should do a little more work on it than that. but it is really a wide open power. >> michael schmidt, thank you. sam stein, kasie hunt, jonathan lemire, kara swisher. thank you all and our thanks to david drucker and brandy zadrozny. now to the call for the

congressional lawmakers for president trump to immediately leave office. here is congresswoman debbie dingell this morning and house speaker nancy pelosi yesterday. >> i don't think the 25th amendment is looking as real as many people and i do know that there are republican members that thought that was the way to go. i think that democrat will move forward with another impeachment because they do believe that he must be held accountable for his actions that contributed or encouraged or inflamed what happened at the largest symbol of democracy in this country two days ago. >> in calling for this seditious act, the president has committed an unspeakable assault on our nation and our people. i join the senate democratic leader in calling on the vice president to remove this president by immediately invoking the 25th amendment. if the vice president and cabinet do not act, the congress may be prepared to move forward

with impeachment. that is the overwhelming sentiment of my caucus. >> and mika, it's not just nancy pelosi saying this. it's not just debbie dingell saying this. it's not just democrats saying this. "wall street journal" editorial page, which has defended donald trump through the years. time and time again when he deserved no such defense said that what he did was an impeachment offense and he should leave office now to leave impeachment. >> what is the other option when you have a president committing crimes, inciting violence and murder and vandalism and desecration and having thousands of people storm -- what is the other -- you're going to trust him for the next 12 days with the nuclear code? facebook can't even trust him. there's no other option. he's got to go. >> in the video announcement

adam kinzinger of illinois became the first republican congressman calling for invoking the 25th amendment and larry hogan said quote, the country would be better off if trump resigned or was removed. massachusetts governor charlie baker also a republican echoed that sentiment saying he believes that the president should step down and the orderly transition of power should be led by vice president mike pence. >> correct. >> here's a take yesterday from former white house chief of staff john kelly. >> the cabinet should meet and have a discussion. i don't think it will happen, but i think the cabinet should meet and discuss this because the behavior yesterday and in the weeks and months before that has been outrageous from the president and what happened on capitol hill yesterday is a direct result of his, you know, poisoning the minds of people with the lies and the fraud. >> if you were in the cabinet right now, would you vote to

remove him from office? >> yes. i would. >> this is -- there's no other option. >> yeah. >> there's no other option. anybody with the power to do something about this who doesn't do the right thing, there's no other option. he will commit more crimes. he will pardon criminals. he will do things that hurt our democracy. what more do you need? >> so willie, i am a southern baptist. so i believe in death bed conversions. >> take it. >> that being said, devos, elaine chao, john kelly, not exactly tommy smith and john carlos at the 68 mexico olympics. >> no. no holding up their fist with the glove there. actually i thought about that when we saw josh hawley doing that yesterday. what a disgrace to the gesture.

the red line happen to be that a police officer was killed inside the united states capitol that a protest was shot dead outside the locked doors of the chambers, where sat the vice president of the united states. that's the red line on january 6, 2021, with all we have seen for four years. now, these death bed conversions come through. by the way, chao and devos, they could stay there and participate and help -- the 25th amendment. >> right. >> they leave, they won't have to participate in that we should say from everyone i have been spoken to and reporting from other news outlets, mike pence, the vice president, is not even thinking about the 25th amendment and he would have to be on board. not like he's grappling with it. he's not even considering it. that's why you're hearing talk from nancy pelosi and others about moving forward with impeachment. congress is out of session. they have all gone home now. they would have to come back, deliberate, vote and then have a senate trial in the 12 days left

of the president's term. >> right. >> they could do it, but it appears that's the last option here to get him out before he does anything else. >> so did anybody think that a guy who looks to his left and when donald trump takes a water bottle off of a table that he takes a water bottle off of a table. do we really think that guy is going to try to invoke the 25th amendment? of course not. >> no. >> right. >> of course not. >> then they own this. they continue to own whatever will happen in the next 12 days and if anyone is stupid enough to think he won't do more, god bless you. >> adam kinzinger became the first one to call for the 25th

amendment and he used to be a military pilot. i wonder if that's why you have been separated by the other republican caucus that haven't stepped out already and stated the obvious, this man is no longer fit to be president of the united states, actually never was. but it's painfully obvious even to "the wall street journal" editorial page. >> yeah. i don't know what led to it -- and good morning, guys. i think when i got into office, you know, i made a commitment to myself that look, i'm not going to be somebody that just wants to do it for the attention or the fame. i really want to be focused and grounded so every two years i remind myself of why i'm here. i think it's understanding that commitment to the constitution and then i mean, honestly as i'm sitting in my office -- by the way i have been for weeks predicting violence on the 6th. you know to have intel agencies and stuff saying that they never saw this coming. i have been -- all i'm doing is looking at twitter, seeing the posts, bring your guns, seeing the 1776 calls.

i knew this was going to happen. and to see it then happen, you know, we lost a capitol police officer this morning. i think that's the fifth person or something to die from this riot and my goodness, that's where we're at. because people did not want to tell voters the truth. >> how are your voters responding? and that's -- i'm going to ask in a sort of a leading question sort of way, because for the past four years i have been wondering why more republicans haven't been you like. if i did something unpopular with voters out of conscience, i would hold town hall meetings and i would explain why and my constituents always understood it and they respected me for it. how are your constituents responding to you? >> yeah, i have kind of an independent streak and i think what i have noticed -- i outperformed the president by something like 15% in this election cycle.

if they don't agree with everything, i think they have respect for you telling them the truth. this is such -- this like a massive litmus test in people's minds because it's almost like he's some cult leader that if you ever turn against, you know, it's like leaving -- you know, leaving a cult in some people's minds. because it has driven people to go to the capitol and to try to overthrow the capitol. i think i saw 45% of republicans think that the occupation of the capitol was a good thing. my god, we have got to have a real moment of talking and kind of going back to what conservative values mean and what we as americans actually stand for. if we're too scared to do it and if we're going to convince people that we can magically pick the president in congress, you know, we don't deserve to be in office. >> hey, congressman, willie geist. your case is very interesting because what we have heard over the last four years from republicans as they stand by in

silence or in support of donald trump through some of the darkest days they don't want to cross the president. they're afraid of his voters f they cross him, they will lose their own election in a couple of years. what you have shown is that you're not a constant critic of president trump. but when there's a moment you view something worthy of your criticism, you give it. and yet, you still in a district that president trump wins and that republicans generally win in presidential elections, you outpace the president. you do better. so what is your lesson, what would you say to incoming republicans, what would you say to republicans who stood by president trump about how you do that? how you conduct yourself? >> i think the key is just, you know, be genuine enough and again do what you believe. i think if you're out there telling a lie that you don't believe in, people can see that and you just sound like every over, you know, democrat or republican cookie cutter politician. that's one thing i think. i just think that, you know, the ability to communicate with folks without getting into

technical jargon and going back to the basics of what -- in my case as a conservative, i believe in. i'll tell you, i do believe that this moment right here is going to define many people's careers because there is no way -- there is no way that anybody logically believes that over time, you know, donald trump will get even more popular than he is today. there's nobody that once we get out of the haze of emotion, actually, we were so angry about the occupation of the capitol, but that was fine. >> so let's talk about the 25th amendment. you made news when you came out in support of it yesterday. you said that the president has to step aside. do you believe you can actually get that process started? we know that vice president pence is not on board with it. and as a follow-up, why do you believe the president needs to be removed? why is this an urgent question with only 12 days left? >> well, you know, i was a little more optimistic that the 25th could be done because you know when george w. bush for

instance went under anesthesia for two hours or something like that, dick cheney was president. he was handed the duties for two hours because that was an administration that understood that even two hours with a rudderless ship could be potentially damaging. we're talking 12 more days but i think the damage that is being -- i mean, you have a president, again, that stood out not just at that rally. he has been tweeting about in essence about attacking the capitol. he has been entertaining the qanon conspiracy theories. the people who charged the capitol believed this was the storm, i'm sure. then at the end of the day he tweeted, this is what you get. this is what you get for stealing the election. it's totally false and then when it's all over, i stood there with my jaw dropped because people still objected to the election. we had members of congress that continued to say things like, i have on good authority that was actually a false flag operation by antifa. all right.

>> congressman, what are -- i mean, there is no way that this president is going to act in a responsible way over the next 12 days. i think we can all agree on that. i think we all can agree that he says one thing in one moment and another in another. that tape that he did yesterday was a moment in time. and that mostly he's trying to stoke hatred and division on top of the fact that he has access to classified information and could hurt our country from within and from without. he has proven that on every level. on what planet is someone not doing the 25th amendment at this point? what's your argument to them to help them understand that perhaps we might want to remove him from office? >> i think the public argument would be it's only 12 days that's a drastic step.

the 25th amendment can take effect immediately, it's not a long process. i think that's what they'll say. i think the reality is there are only 12 days away and, you know, from escaping -- not having to ever turn on donald trump even when we're sitting in our office and a mob is being encouraged to storm the capitol, a capitol police officer was announced to have perished, plus other people. obviously the one lady shot and others and then we're going to sit here and say, well, you know, let's get through to the next 12 days. no, let's take a stand. let's make it clear that -- >> it's crazy. >> it's crazy. do you want to be part of the party that after donald trump, this is what we continue to do. we're the conspiracy theory party. joe, is that the party you were part of? probably not. >> unfortunately it's what our

party has become. and let's hope that others will follow your lead and pull back from this madness that has been building for some time. congressman, thank you so much. we greatly appreciate it. >> congressman kinzinger. >> let's bring in our panel. from fletchers school of law and diplomacy at tufts, daniel drezner. founder of the bulwark and the author of "how the riot lost its mind" charles sykes. donny deutsch and shawna thomas as well. >> so i have a confession and then a question. i don't know if you know it or not, but i was always seen in the republican party when i was on the hill -- well, i'll just say it as a son of a bitch. the leadership never liked me, i never liked the leadership that

won't surprise phil griffin at msnbc -- i love phil. but i was always sort of pushing against the party. and i always saw you as being a little too tight with paul ryan. i love paul, but again i saw you more as an establishment republican because of that connection. and so i called you though about a week or two in, just telling everyone -- i called you about a week or two in and i -- because i was asking every republican i knew what the hell is going on and what are we going to do about it? and you told me something that was pretty extraordinary. and it was that you had faith and hope in not just the judicial system, but you said in conservative judges. in federalist society judges who were offended and outraged by

some of the comments that donald trump had made about a judge out of washington state. george w. bush appointee and you said, our only hope over the next four years are that these federal judges, conservative and democratic appointed alike, are going to make sure the center holds. charlie, here we are. four years later. and as merrick garland said yesterday, it is the rule of law that has sustained our constitutional republic. incredible, isn't it? >> it is. you know, look, here's the irony. of course that, you know, donald trump and his supporters and his enablers will say his great legacy will be appointing all of the judges and the supreme court judges but fundamentally he doesn't understand what judges do. he doesn't understand how the

judicial system works. here's a man who has no respect for the rule of law, and no respect or understanding of the constitution. and so again, it's one of the great ironies that he put on the bench people who actually in the end turned out to be the bulwark because how many courts have ruled against him? 60. not just ruled against donald trump, but i think that they have -- they have slam dunked his arguments. they have ridiculed his arguments. they have made it crystal clear on the record of history that his claims about voter fraud and misconduct in the election have no basis in fact whatsoever. so yes, that is certainly one bryant spot. i wish you would have had the same principle among the other elected republicans but the courts said whatever else the republican party is going to do, the conservative movement is going to do we're out.

we're not buying what you're trying to do. we're not going to support your coup attempt whatsoever. >> charlie, they did that over the four years. >> yeah. >> i knew -- i have friends in pensacola, florida, who a relative of theirs became a trump appointed federal judge. i thought, oh, my god, this is -- am i going to have to bow my head when i walk past them in pensacola? no, i'm not. because guess what she's a federal society member and, man, she was throwing 99 miles an hour fastballs from the day she got on the bench. i mean, what does it say about our judges, about our judicial system, and forgive me for sounding polly annish this morning, but i'm not sure. it's been our federal judges that have held this constitution

republic together through four dark years. >> no, it was really interesting when the wisconsin supreme court ruled against trump's attempt to throw out the votes here in wisconsin. trump was absolutely furious that one of the conservative justices had ruled against him, because he thought, look, you're supposed to be my guy. donald trump thinks that the judges are, you know -- that it's completely transactional. if he names a judge that the judge will turn around and do him a favor. so the fundamental misunderstanding that donald trump has about the relationship between the law and the judges and the courts, you know, i think it's been pretty dramatic. but you're right. i mean, you know, we're seeing this. this is an amazing moment right now. i mean, you're seeing the disintegration of this man's administration, you're seeing the break in the lock step loyalty of the republicans, like a jail break as the rats jump from the sinking ship.

but really we wouldn't be on the brink of this moment of impeachment 2.0 if the courts had not created this wall and saying, you know, thus far and no further. i mean, think how things would have been different if you had federal judges, local judges who would have said, let's listen to these interesting theories by rudy giuliani and jenna ellis and, you know, lin wood. if they would have dragged this out. but you're absolutely right. so if you're looking for one bright spot in the way that the system was able to resist donald trump, that i think would be number one on your list. >> so dan drezner, i have followed you religiously over the last four years because you have time and time again cut through the what i call the ground noise and really shown us what we have needed to focus on. i'm not taking any victory laps

right now for the country because we have got 12, 13 long days to go. i am curious though what you have learned through this process as we're talking about federal judges sort of holding this constitution republic together at the same time the republican party itself at least on the national level time and time again have turned a mind eye to political norms. >> well, it's worth remembering that there are ways in remembering which that president trump has been a remark my weak president, that despite the fact that republicans control the senate, they controlled the house, trump succeeded in appointing a lot of judges but there was a lot he tried to do that he was unable to get through congress or that the courts turned down because of

violations of the administrative procedures act or what have you. it's worth noting that a lot of trump's most egregious behavior over the last four years he had an insurance policy in his mind and that was the gop which was the way that the system works is that few if the president -- if the president commits egregious acts, the route to checking his power is through congressional oversight or the impeachment provision. and what trump was quite sure of and the one thing trump excelled at politically over the last four years was maintaining the loyalty of the gop. and that's why impeachment was perceived as largely a partisan affair. that's why you had, you know, quizlings like josh hawley and ted cruz to -- you know, until this week saying, no, we think there are legitimate questions to be asked about the election. and so this is what he's always

been able to count on and this is what we're seeing not fall apart but crumble somewhat. you know, when you have republican members of congress coming on your show and saying, yes, i think we need to talk about impeachment. when you have even, you know, extremely ambitious self-interested senators like ben sasse nonetheless thinking it's in his best interest to speak out against trump, his last firewall is starting to crumble and therefore he needs to be very worried about what he's going to face in terms of prosecutions or consequences once he leaves office. there's a part of me that actually kind of wants to see him try to self-pardon because if he self-pardons, then i guarantee you the justice department is going to litigate that. and it will settle constitutionally this question of whether with -- a president can do this once and for all. i know it seems like 20 years ago, but if you remember we had

a tape recording of donald trump talking and trying to, you know, commit election fraud with the georgia secretary of state. that in and of itself seems like you could have prosecuted. and so this is a case where he's been able to get away with an awful lot with impunity because he knew he could count on the support of the gop. he can count on a fair fraction of the support of the gop, but clearly the develop is undergoing internal turmoil and it will be interesting to see once he's out of office the kind of legal jeopardy he faces. >> shocking though it may sound, that phone call to the secretary of state in georgia was six days ago. a lot happened since then. so shawna thomas, let's pick up on that point because one way or another, donald trump will be gone 12 days from now. out of the oval office. he's leaving. how do republicans grapple with him as a figure who's not going away? i don't think anybody thinks he will, whether it's on a network or on social media, a threat to

run again in 2024. with the final lasting image of his administration being his supporters overrunning the capitol, killing a police officer, what odo republicans do with that legacy? how close do they hug donald trump? how much do they bow and scrape to him now? >> i mean, we did actually watch the fracturing of the republican party in this last week along with the pain and suffering that we saw in the capitol halls. so i think they have to figure out who do you support? i think it's a couple of things. i think it has to do with conservative fund-raisers and backers and who they decide to back in primaries in 2022. who -- which side of the republican party are they going? are they going with the trumpism side because that riles up the base and the way we saw on capitol hill this week or going with -- i mean, the paul ryan

side. low taxes, smaller government, the things we used to talk about that the republican party used to stand for. i think with the resignations we are seeing coming out of the cabinet as well as white house staff, sometimes the staff, no one has ever heard of, but elaine chao who has been in government for years and years and years and is the wife of mitch mcconnell, betsy devos, they need to sit down for interviews. they need to open things up and say, okay, some of these questions are going to be hard about what they did in their role and how they were complicit in propping up president trump. but also why step down now. beyond your sort of blow-dried statement that you put out. they need to show people, tell people what they have seen and how they have reacted and why this took them to the brink. they have -- and i think that's what a lot of republicans -- i mean, yes we see adam kinzinger

do that, representative kinzinger who has been on your show earlier has been saying this stuff for a while. there has to be an overwhelming chorus of rejecting trumpism to figure out what the republican party is so that we have some chance of going back to some kind of conversation about actual priorities. but i think we are a long way away from that but republicans have a lot to figure out if they want to get back to governing a country. if they want to win back the house of representatives or the senate or the presidency. but right now, they set up a situation where it also inspires what we saw happen in georgia. yeah, stacey abrams did a lot of work and reached out to individuals. yes, warnock and ossoff did what they needed to do. but also, there was a -- there was a rejection of the republican party in that race in a lot of that rejection is still a rejection to trump. a rejection to trumpism.

if the republicans are going to lose a runoff in georgia in 2020, who knows what's going to happen in '22. so they have political considerations and think about the morality. >> i never thought the day after the presidential election that the republicans -- or that democrats are going to win one of those two seats. i thought it might be close. i thought they'd get within a point or two. but to win both, my god. that is a -- i mean, those are odds that willie and i would never take at the dog track i guarantee you that, right, willie? >> i'm distracted. >> willie is tired of me talking about the dog track. >> no, i'm distracted by donny because he's in the waiting room of a laser hair removal salon and we don't want him to be late for his appointment. so we have to get to him.

>> nailed it. >> so we'll hurry up and ask you a couple of questions so you can get on to your most important work of the day, the laser hair removal. >> ew. >> so you know, donny, this is going to be sort of a bumpy segue. hell, here is merrick garland from yesterday. >> to serve as attorney general at this critical time, to lead the more than 113,000 dedicated men and women who work at the department to ensure the rule of law is a calling i am honored and eager to answer. as everyone who watched yesterday's events in washington now understands, if they did not understand before, the rule of law is not just some lawyer's term or phrase. it is the very foundation of our democracy. >> the rule of law is the very

foundation of the democracy. when i was watching judge garland say that yesterday, i got chills as a conservative. a lot of liberals i'm sure got chills as well. william barr, the "wall street journal" editorial page, a lot of people actually putting hope in merrick garland and as you watch judge garland, you think back and go, wait a second. this is how men and women of good faith, with love for this country, have talked for most of our adult lives. republicans and democrats alike. it does look like a return to not normalcy, but sanity. >> joe, as painful as the other day was, there is a silver

lining and that silver lining is the trump presidency ended november 3rd, but the trump era ended january 6th. and that is that what we were looking forward to over the next year or two years or three years -- not looking forward to actually, dreading, but trump still with the megaphone and representing 40% of this country. 75 million people, how are we going to move forward, we're so divided. and what happened with the images that are seared forever, that will define his presidency, there is shame attached to being a trumper. not necessarily for 1% or 2% of the people, but the 36%, the people who voted for him, maybe they wanted their tax cuts, maybe soft racists of color, those people can no longer stand up and be trumpers. there's shame for that and for his family, and it was a stake in the heart. we needed that demarcation and

we are about to enter a new era. it is -- i have never felt better as sad and as tragic as it is about the future of this country as right now. when i look at biden, when i look at the people he's putting in, even as pathetic and sniveling as it is, and lindsey graham and ted cruz, shut up, both of you, you're complicit in this. but we're headed to the era of calm, togetherness. i don't want to sound so naive but it's kumbaya moment in this country that is going to define things. i think governing is going to be different than it has been in a long, long time. that is the texture you feel in the area. that's the zeitgeist that we're headed to. as someone who watched the pendulum swing, merrick garland's speech we're going to see that nice is good and togetherness is good and that

feeling that we're not so polar opposite is okay and that was the demarcation. as painful as it was in those images that will define what we were, will allow us to move forward to a very, very different climate in this country. >> well, let us hope that we can get things done. you look at the united states senate, i have talked about democrats and republicans alike that want to work together. joe manchin, hickenlooper, kristen sinema, romney, collins, murkowski, even lindsey graham. a lot of democrats and republicans alike talking about making deals so there is a possibility that we can actually get some things done. but dan drezner and charlie sykes, i want to go back and get your reaction to judge merrick garland and his appointment, first of all, but secondly, his comments yesterday.

dan, i'll start with you. >> you know, i find it incredibly fitting. you can argue that in some ways merrick garland, you know, was the symbol of the depth to which polarization had affected the ability of this country to do anything. the fact that barack obama wanted to appoint him to the supreme court and mitch mcconnell didn't even put it to a vote. it's not that they voted him down, it's that he didn't put it to the vote. and so i think in some ways it's fitting that biden selects him to a new position of prominence in the incoming administration. and obviously his comments are like a soothing balm on a country that is experiencing a lot of open wounds. so i have nothing but good things to say about merrick garland. i guess the other thing i would add in -- i'm not quite as optimistic as donny as what the country is going to look like going forward, but i will say

that one of the effects of january the 6th might be that biden might experience something that presidents used to experience. we're old enough to remember which was something of a honeymoon period. usually when the president was inaugurated they were occasionally able to get things done in a bipartisan fashion because they were elected with a mandate and there was the recognition that they'd have to work with the incoming administration. there were profound reasons to doubt this for the last couple months but i think the combination of the georgia runoff elections and what happened on january the 6th will cause at least some republicans to recognize there has to be some gestures of bipartisanship going forward. i don't know how long it will last, i don't know how long it will be that the gop will be this fractured but it might resemble something we saw 40 years ago. >> charlie sykes, final thought?

>> so i want to be optimistic and i want to agree with donny about this because we're watching the collapse of donald trump come in such a dramatic fashion waiting for five years, what did you think was going to happen, why aren't you seeing who in guy is, but i will tell you though we still are a deeply divided country. and yes, there's an era of good feeling potentially out there. but also there's a possibility that what happened this week was a prologue to what will happen in the future. there is an entire universe out there of people who are bitter and alienated, who live in a completely different factual universe, who have been radicalized online, who have been ginned up, who believe these conspiracy theories. and they're not going away. they have an entire media ecosystem out there. so yes, i think there's reason to be pleased with some of the things that are going on. i think there's a good trend line. but do not underestimate the

ugliness ahead. and you know, it's a small step from people supporting a coup d'etat to talking about secession and in making the divisions even deeper. so we have to sort of balance. it's kind of a split screen that we have help on the way. we have decent, honorable men like merrick garland coming. but you know, after the last five years, do not underestimate some of the dark corners of american politics. >> shawna thomas, there are dark corners of american politics and you look at a flash poll that shows 45% of republicans agreeing with the storming of the capitol. there still is much work to be done. >> yeah. i just got to say, it's hard to see how an insurrection that is

primarily a bunch of white people suddenly leads us to this great moment where we all come together and kumbaya. no one was saying that after the black lives matter protests this past summer. i think just the juxtaposition of the two things and we all talked about this, the crowds at lafayette park being pushed back with tear gas versus how people were treated there. i don't see that's the next way we are going to suddenly have this dawn of optimism in this country because we have to grapple with the differences. we have to push them out into the light. you know, no offense to donny deutsch but i don't feel that the next step is that everything is suddenly going to be sunshine and roses and i know i'm being hyperbolic and i know that isn't exactly what he was saying but that's a little bit how that feels. so i think the next step is let's make sure january 20th and the inauguration is protected so that we have the next calendar date where democracy is shown to

the entire country, to the entire world. let's make sure that's safe, to make an example. and then a really hard conversation continues. >> yeah. you're exactly right, shawna, on several fronts. first of all, we have a fascist who is president of the united states who got 75 million votes so obviously that's a real concern. i'm not saying that 75 million people who voted for him were fascists but i am saying 75 million people voted for a fascist. the second thing is donny does have the most exclusive caterer on the upper east side who always provides him with sunshine and roses. shawna thomas, donny deutsch, dan drezner, charlie sykes, thank you very much. donny? >> the very thing that thing

happened forced such a huge percentage to abandon -- guys, i'm telling you we're in a different era. this happened, that has to happen. that was a shocker. holy -- we have to move it in a different direction. guys i'm not so crazy, well, i'm so crazy. >> let my apologize. this is a family program, you are not to use vulgarity on this program. willie, mika and i all shocked and stunned and deeply saddened by that. on a serious front, sometimes it does -- it does take shocking developments. the 63 birmingham church bombing woke a so-called white moderate americans into supporting the civil rights movement in a way they had not in the past and i'm hopeful that the siege of the united states capitol and the attempt by the president of the united states and josh hawley to

lead an insurrection against the united states government and to tear the constitution to shreds, i'm hopeful that that will wake up millions of americans as thrh the past four years because their 401(k)s or their stocks were going up or their tax rates were going down. thank you all very much. still ahead, congresswoman elissa slotkin said yesterday she's heard from a number of senior trump administration officials who said that president trump is in increasingly unhinged, and they are concerned about the actions he could take in the next few weeks. the michigan democrat joins us next with more on what she's hearing from inside the white house. keeping your oysters business growing

has you swamped. you need to hire. i need indeed indeed you do. the moment you sponsor a job on indeed you get a shortlist of quality candidates from a resume data base claim your seventy-five-dollar credit when you post your first job at indeed.com/promo it's moving day. and are doing the heavy lifting, jess is busy moving her xfinity internet and tv services. it only takes about a minute. wait, a minute? but what have you been doing for the last two hours? delegating? oh, good one. move your xfinity services without breaking a sweat. now that's simple, easy, awesome. xfinity makes moving easy. go online to transfer your services in about a minute. get started today.

welcome back, just moments ago assistant house speaker congresswoman katherine clark said democrats are eyeing an impeachment vote by the middle of next week. joining us now democratic congresswoman elissa slotkin of michigan. she previously served as a middle east analyst for the cia and also served as acting assistant secretary of defense

for international security affairs. she's a member of the armed services and homeland security committees. like we need this, but could you please share the potential damage this president still could do to our democracy from within and also outside with our enemies and allies in the next 12 days. >> sure. i mean, i think we're entering a real volatile period here. i mean, we've been in it. there's 78 days of transition once an election happens, and we're in the last 12 days right now, and obviously the events of the past week have really sort of hyper charged everything. i'm concerned about a few things. obviously at the end of this process we have another big security event at the capitol with, you know, the incoming cabinet supposedly the outgoing cabinet. members of congress. so i think it's important that we realize we have another big security event that we're going to have to get through successfully this time, but then also, i mean, the last few days

here the president could be looking to fulfill some of the things he said he was going to do. i know there's been a lot of meetings related to iran, and we saw an aircraft carrier turn around last week, which is a very unusual step and head back to the persian gulf. the president has objectives with china. the president has things he wants to do to sort of leave his legacy, i guess, in a way that he would like, and it's always a volatile period, but now in particular i think everybody is really on edge. >> wouldn't at this point, if this was someone outside of the white house, the ceo of a company, i mean, in the past week we have seen him openly break laws. we've heard the tape with the georgia secretary of state with an attorney and the call being recorded. we have seen riots in washington. how can he not be removed from office immediately? >> that's something that we should all be asking these cabinet members who are

allegedly resigning in protest, and i've got to say as someone who has lived through two transitions between administrations between parties, resigning in protest in the last two weeks is really not resigning in protest. it's a paid vacation on the taxpayer dime. after many, many years of enabling this man. but if they really are making a protest, if betsy devos and elaine chao are really making a protest, they have the power, the unusual power of invoking the 25th amendment. they can do that. i can't as just a sitting congresswoman, so they should exercise that power if they actually feel passionately, and it's not just a way to try to like clean up their record at the end of an administration. of course vice president pence has that opportunity. him and his family were literally put at risk by those rioters who came into the capitol, and i didn't see the president shedding a tear for the security of his own vice president, so i think, you know, we've been calling on the cabinet to make this an easier

process, but they've been resisting so we're taking additional measures in the coming weeks, and i think that's prudent. >> congresswoman, as you know, one of the other avenues for removal is impeachment, another impeachment trial. the assistant speaker of the house katherine clark said in an interview moments ago on another network there would be a vote on impeachment in the house next week. are you heard that? >> there's certainly been a lot of planning, a lot of conversations going on. i hadn't heard that exactly. the important thing to me is frankly we get back to washington monday morning and start working. i mean, i think we had a scheduled week home in our districts right now, so we all left the capitol, and i've served in countries where the parliament has been overrun or there's an attempt to overrun the parliament and the sort of golden rule is you stay there, you continue work. you show people that you're not kind of leaving it alone, that the government is still functioning. i want to get back to work monday morning.

there's a whole number of things that we can do. frankly, i think it's important to sort of put down for history, even if not in a practical sense, you know, sort of be done because of the senate that we put down a marker that inciting insurrection like this is just unacceptable. so the other thing i want to see is censure of some of my peers who spoke at those rallies who incited violence, who contributed to this, who will still be in office after the 20th of january. those people need a real hard look as well. >> interesting to hear you say that, ben sasse republican senator in nebraska said in another interview he would consider censure of his republican colleague josh hawley for his conduct. can you speak specifically to what you fear. you mentioned carriers moving around the gulf, 12 days left under this president. he's got nothing left to lose. you've been around the world. you know the threats around the world. you've worked for the department of defense and the cia, what could happen?

what concerns you over these 12 days? >> well, i think that it is clear that iran is back to enriching uranium, that we've got, you know, them moving ahead with their nuclear program, and this is something that is obviously the opposite of what anyone wanted, certainly the opposite of what this president said he was going to do in terms of constraining the iran nuclear program, so i do watch for, you know, if not purposeful military action against iran, a potential cycle of escalation. you know, we come close to iranian ships, iranian drones, iranian planes all the time, and the potential for either initiating some sort of, you know, conflict, some sort of exchange, we've seen that in the past year. that to me feels like, you know, the president would have his back up and would have very little incentive to deescalate if something started. i think that the, you know, president has, you know, made a habit of sort of down playing a lot of the russian threats.

we're in the middle -- people are still forgetting, we're in the middle of the largest cyber attack on the american government in u.s. history. we've had the intelligence community say that it was the russian intelligence service come out, they were the one who is did this, and if we don't take further action now, it certainly leaves us more vulnerable and on a good day would just empower the russians, so not taking swift action to protect ourselves from cyber threat, i think would be devastating, and then, you know, i think that frankly i think it's important that we -- you know, your conversation that you were just having with the analysts, you know, can we just accept that the post-9/11 era is over. we are in a new era, right? we had a generational event with the infiltration of the capitol, and the era of the primary threats to the united states being external, right, threats coming from abroad, from foreign terrorist organizations, from china, from russia, they're

still serious, but the single greatest national security threat right now is our internal division. it's the threat of domestic terrorism. it's that polarization that threatens our democracy, and we've had a visual representation of that two days ago. so to me, yes, i'm worried about external threats, but when the biden administration comes in i just -- i urge them and everyone else to understand that the greatest threat to us now is internal, and if we do not do that work of trying to reconnect those two americas, the threats are not going to have to come from outside. we're going to do it to ourselves. we're going to hurt ourselves, and i think that era of external threats is now surpassed by domestic threat. >> congresswoman elissa slotkin, as always, thank you so much for coming on this morning. it's great to see you. and coming up, president trump acknowledges for the first time in public that he will not be president after january 20th, but with calls for his removal

intensifying, the question is will he make that -- will he make it to the 20th. the next hour of "morning joe" starts right now. i would like to begin by addressing the heinous attack on the united states capitol. like all americans, i am outraged by the violence, lawlessness, and mayhem. >> we're going to walk down to the capitol. [ cheers and applause ] >> and we're going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women and we're probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them because you'll never take back our country with weakness. >> the demonstrators who infiltrated the capitol have defiled the seat of american democracy. to those who engage in the acts of violence and destruction, you do not represent our country. >> we love you. you're very special.

>> and to those who broke the law, you will pay. >> go home and go home in peace. >> we have just been through an intense election and emotions are high, but now tempers must be cooled and calm restored. >> today is not the end. it's just the beginning. we must get on with the business of america. my campaign vigorously pursued every legal avenue to contest the election results. >> mike pence is going to have to come through for us. >> now congress has certified the results. a new administration will be inaugurated on january 20th. my focus now turns to ensuring a smooth, orderly and seamless transition of power. >> we will never give up. we will never concede. >> that is a man who two days ago preached the gospel of insurrection against the united states of america and against the united states constitution that he actually swore an oath

to uphold. rudy giuliani two days ago was talking about combat justice and how they needed to rush up to capitol hill and apply combat justice. don trump jr. talked about the fact that they were coming after members of congress, were coming to get you, and it's going to be fun. insurrection two days ago. now there are investigations into whether the sitting president of the united states was guilty of insurrection against the united states of america. they need to make sure they do the same with rouudy giuliani a don trump jr., because just looking at the face of the statute, they are guilty of being a part of a conspiracy to commit insurrection against the united states of america and no puff piece, no script written by terrified staff who saw their world crumbling before them can

change that fact. he, his son, and rudy giuliani are guilty of insurrection. they should be arrested, said it yesterday, they should be booked, and they should be sent to jail. if we are a nation of laws, that's exactly what will happen. >> and this was an insurrection, willie, which left one woman dead and many others injured. this insurrection desecrated the united states capitol, the people's house and interrupted democracy in action. >> well, and now, mika, a police officer is dead, a capitol hill police officer named brian sicknick was killed by the mob with a fire extinguisher, so the mobs that the president inspired with his rhetoric all along and especially with his rhetoric that morning as he told them to go to the capitol, that mob killed a capitol police officer, so you had a woman shot in side

the capitol just odutside the chamber doors where the vice president was, the president sent a mob up where his vice president was and a police officer is now dead. many others are injured. so that speech yesterday that was written and plugged into the teleprompter, it's empty. it means nothing. it's beyond too little. it's beyond too late. >> so is that the mob justice? is that the combat justice that rudy giuliani, former prosecutor himself, was talking about? he urged the crowd on to show combat justice and a police officer is dead. one of the rioters is dead. that blood, of course, as both major newspapers in missouri have said. that blood is not only on donald trump's hands and rudy giuliani's hands and the hands of donald trump jr., it's also

on the hands of josh hawley, mika, who now the man who started actually the legislative side of this, that man who refused to back down even after open insurrection against the united states of america, he is now being called on to resign from the united states congress because of the crimes he has committed against america. >> he also lost his book deal, the publisher that was going to publish his upcoming book has pulled out. it is just another consequence to what appears to be just violent criminal action. >> and is proving once again, willie, that he just may well be the dumbest man in america with a degree from stanford and yale law school. josh hawley as he did with facebook and he did with social media platforms, he's doing now with a publisher. he keeps confusing the actions of private industry, of private

enterprises with the federal government. he keeps confusing the fact that if you are a profit-making center you can do what the hell you want to do as far as publishing because the first amendment grants you that right. you can do what the hell you want to do with who you sign up to write a book. and by the way, if in the middle of that contract -- like let's say i have a contract to write a book on lincoln. let's say between now and then i decide to commit treason against the united states of america. i decide to commit acts of sedition like josh hawley did. i decide to lead an insurrection against the united states of america and inspire actually the ravaging of the united states capitol. >> and discredit the election. >> yeah, i think my publisher has a right to cancel my deal,

too. that's the not the first amendm actually, joshy boy. go back to school. that's free enterprise at work. >> for people who don't know, he had a book deal, simon & schuster his publisher canceled the book deal and he put out a statement calling it cancel culture and a violation of the first amendment. a private entity canceling a book deal is not a violation of the first amendment. the problem like with his argument in the senate is of course he knows the difference. of course he knows better. it makes it all the more cynical and all the more worse. the book deal is a small microcosm of his larger issue, which is that he knows exactly what he's doing, and it's a cynical play for his own ambition. >> oh, and i mean, that reaction is spoiled, entitled, and unbelievably unself-aware. i can't believe he has to learn this lesson on the national stage with blood on his hands. along with joe, willie and me we have white house reporter for

"associated press" jonathan lemire, white house editor for "politico," sam stein, nbc news capitol hill correspondent and host of "way too early" kasie hunt, and senior political correspondent for "the washington examiner" david drucker. great to have you all on board. >> so jonathan lemire, let's go to you first. give us a quick overview. what -- you know, this is, again, this is like bill murray in tootsie when he's walking away from the theater with other playwrights and said when my play is over, i want people to look around and ask the question what happened? well, in the trump reality show, we were just starting to read a "vanity fair" article, and we're getting through it -- >> it was a nice evening -- >> -- jared and ivanka, and then suddenly i call you and say, hey, have you read this? and you go -- video. there's a video. and i knew immediately five alarm fire, i turn on the video, and there i am asking that bill

murray question. what did i just see? what happened? what pushed the president to do what the "new york times" is labeling a concession speech. >> joe, that was a terrific impression of me, thank you for that. >> thank you. >> what we saw last night was sort of an unexpected in some ways video, but i might argue that another bill murray movie apply. that's "ground hog day." we see the president admit to a crisis, charlottesville is an example, does not condemn the actions of his supporters or violence, but almost encourages it and only after 24 to 48 hours of immense pressure buzz does h the other way and bring out scripted remarks to try to bring down the temperature. traditionally in the trump administration there's another turn that usually after the scripted act he reverts back to his true self. we will see if that happens here in the next day or so when it comes to this, which is now of

course the greatest crisis of the trump presidency. we'll just pull back real quick, joe, and let you know how this came about. the remarkable 180 from wednesday when the president in his tweets and in a video told the protesters that he loved them, that they are special. there was no condemnation of the violence, of the riotous siege of the u.s. capitol that indeed has claimed now several lives. he instead on wednesday holed up in the west wing of the private -- his private study off the oval office watching the coverage, never once reaching out to vice president pence who was in danger at the capitol. he never picked up the phone to call him. he simply was angry that pence had not done his bidding in terms of objecting to the certification of the electoral college vote in congress. but what's happened here is in the last 24 hours this is an effort, this video from the president, to stave off the forces trying to oust him from office early, and it's two different tracks. we are hearing members of

congress, democrats, house speaker pelosi, minority leader, soon to be majority leader schumer calling for impeachment again. members of the house saying they want to vote on impeachment again, which would leave the president, of course the second -- the first president ever to be impeached two times. we saw one of his allies lindsey graham and other republicans say that they are also disturbed, outraged by the president and said that all options are on the table. perhaps signaling that there wouldn't be enough votes in the republican senate to stave off a conviction this time around. we also have talk of the 25th amendment. we've had two cabinet officials, devos and chao both resign in the last 24 hours out of protest. there is still no signal, though, that vice president pence would get behind a move the 25th amendment to remove the president from office and the talk on that has cooled slightly we can report in the next day, in the last 24 hours. but that is still out there, and of course the final piece of this, the possibility of a criminal prosecution awaiting the president for inciting this

violence, and that more than anything is what led him to deliver that video yesterday, warnings from the white house counsel and others that he could be held liable for the violence at the capitol. so what we saw last night, this scripted video where though he does not mention president-elect biden by name, he does not use the word victory or concede, that is what it was. for the first time on camera, he publicly bends to reality and acknowledges that there will be a new administration on january 20th, and at least in these words, he says he's committed to a peaceful transition of power. >> "morning joe" is back in a moment. ♪

advanced non-small cell lung cancer can take away so much. but today there's a combination of two immunotherapies you can take first. one that could mean... a chance to live longer. opdivo plus yervoy is for adults newly diagnosed with non-small cell lung cancer that has spread and that tests positive for pd-l1 and does not have an abnormal egfr or alk gene. it's the first and only approved chemo-free combination of two immunotherapies that works together in different ways to harness the power of the immune system. opdivo plus yervoy equals a chance for more days. more nights. more beautiful weekends. more ugly sweaters. more big hugs. more small outings. opdivo and yervoy can cause your immune system to attack normal organs and tissues in your body and affect how they work. this may happen during or after treatment has ended and can become serious and lead to death.

some of these problems may happen more often when opdivo is used with yervoy. see your doctor right away if you have a new or worse cough; chest pain; shortness of breath; diarrhea; severe stomach pain; nausea or vomiting; dizziness; fainting; extreme tiredness; weight changes; constipation; excessive thirst; changes in urine or eyesight; rash; itching; confusion; memory problems; muscle pain or weakness; joint pain; flushing; fever; or tingling in hands and feet. these are not all the possible side effects. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions including immune system problems, or if you've had an organ transplant or lung, breathing, or liver problems. here's to a chance for more together time. a chance to live longer. ask your doctor about opdivo plus yervoy. thank you to all involved in our clinical trials. ask your doctor about opdivo do you struggle with dull, dry skin, and find yourself reapplying moisturizer throughout the day? try olay ultra rich. olay's luxurious moisturizer melts into the skin. it's formulated with vitamin b3 plus peptides and shea butter, providing lasting hydration, for up to 24 hours. there's no need to reapply, and no greasy residue.

and, for enhanced hydration, try olay serum. just 1 drop has the power to renew a million surface skincells. for deep, lasting hydration try olay. they were able to give me a personal loan so i could pay off all of my credit cards. i got my mortgage through sofi and the whole process was so easy. ♪ express yourself ♪ ♪ express yourself ♪

let's get into those calls from over 200 congressional lawmakers for president trump to immediately leave office. here is house speaker nancy

pelosi. >> in calling for this seditious act, the president has committed an unspeakable assault on our nation and our people. i join the senate democratic leader in calling on the vice president to remove this president by immediately invoking the 25th amendment. if the vice president and cabinet do not act, the congress may be prepared to move forward with impeachment. that is the overwhelming sentiment of my caucus. >> though impeachment is on the table, the speaker made clear that the preferred avenue for removal is invoking the 25th amendment. in a video announcement, adam kinzinger of illinois became the first republican congressman to call for invoking the 25th amendment, and outside of washington, maryland's republican governor larry hogan said, quote, the country would be better off if trump resigned or was removed.

massachusetts governor charlie baker also a republican echoed that sentiment saying he believes the president should, quote, step down and the orderly transition of power should be led by vice president pence. sources tell cnbc secretary of state mike pompeo and treasury secretary steve mnuchin have also discussed invoking the 25th amendment, though with concerns the process would take too long. here is the take yesterday from former white house chief of staff john kelly. >> the cabinet should meet and have a discussion. i don't think it will happen, but i think the cabinet should meet and discuss this because the behavior yesterday and in the weeks and months before that have just been outrageous from the president and what happened on capitol hill yesterday is a direct result of his, you know, poisoning the minds of people

with the lies and the frauds. >> if you were in the cabinet right now, would you vote to remove him from office? >> yes, i would. >> former attorney general william barr released a scathing response to the deadly mob violence at the u.s. capitol. in a statement to the "associated press" barr said in part this, orchestrating a mob to pressure congress is inexcusable. the president's conduct yesterday was a betrayal of his office and supporters. that's bill barr. donald trump has now lost two cabinet members and more than half a dozen administration officials. education secretary betsy devos was the latest to hand in her resignation, which is effective today. elaine chao, transportation secretary and wife of senate majority leader mitch mcconnell also resigned on thursday. they are two of the longest

serving cabinet members of the trump administration. nine other administration officials have resigned since wednesday's attack on the capitol. they come from the justice department, national security, and from inside the white house. there is concern among some that more top officials could resign including national security adviser robert o'brien and white house counsel pat cipollone. "the washington post" reports at least four republican senators including utah's mike lee have been privately asking them to stay because there needs to be, quote, strong leadership at the white house in the 12 days that trump has left in office. >> well, and willie, we've been hearing calls on the editorial pages of the "new york times" and "the washington post" for donald trump to step down, but even "the wall street journal" editorial board, which too often has engaged in just mindless,

anti, anti-trumpism and playing to the cheap seats over the past four years, even "the wall street journal" editorial board is now saying it's time for donald trump to just leave. >> yeah, "the wall street journal"'s got a new op-ed calling for president trump to resign. the editorial board there writes this, if mr. trump wants to avoid a second impeachment, his best path would be to take personal responsibility and resign. this would be the cleanest solution since it would immediately turn presidential duties over to mr. pence. we know an act of grace by mr. trump is not likely. in any case, this week has probably finished him as a serious political figure. he has cost republicans the house, the white house, and now the senate. worse, he has betrayed his loyal supporters by lying to them about the election and the ability of congress and mr. pence to overturn it. he has refused to accept the basic bargain of democracy, which is to accept the result, win or lose. it is best for everyone, himself included, if he goes away

quietly. so kasie hunt, you've been talking to people on capitol hill, some of whom this morning talking about possibility of impeachment. i think the 25th amendment most people agree you can correct me if i'm wrong is going to be difficult, if not impossible because you need the vice president on board, and he is not on board, said to be not even entertaining the thought of the 25th amendment. is impeachment now 12 days from the end of president trump's term even possible? >> i do think it's possible, willie, and i was just talking to debbie dingell, the congresswoman from michigan who is pretty close to house speaker nancy pelosi about this possibility on "way too early" and she said, quote, i think democrats are going to move forward with another impeachment, and that really stuck out to me. pelosi obviously raised it at her news conference yesterday. that was coordinated with chuck schumer to try and send a public message to the vice president, pence, to say please do this.

please send us a sisignal about whether you're going to invoke the 25th amendment. it seems like the signal received, that is not on the table. that is not going to happen, but i do think that -- and we're still in the stages of reporting this out, but there -- what happened on wednesday completely shifted the ground for all of the obvious reasons, but it seems as though there is confidence that there is enough opposition to this president perhaps now among senate republicans that if the house were to send those articles over that we might see a different outcome, and you know, i don't want to go too far down this road because, like i said, we're still reporting this out, but my sense sitting here this morning talking to you is that we have seen a potential ground swell that is significant enough, and listen to that wall street journal editorial board comments, i think it really underscores that point and that reality that this is -- it's a realistic possibility that we could see it. now, dingell also told me and we

know, it's obvious from looking at the calendar that time is very short, and there are questions, congress isn't supposed to come back into session until the inauguration. they've all gone home, so it's -- we've got to figure out or they have to figure out what the logistics of that will look like. i'm going to be reporting that out today to try to sort out how they would move forward with this process, but while we normally see these long extended hearings, i mean, that's not necessary, and if the house does, in fact, pass articles of impeachment, the senate is required under the law to have a trial. so we could be seeing the beginnings of that. >> and we'll be right back with more "morning joe." back with more "morning joe. is now a good time for a flare-up?

enough, crohn's. for adults with moderate to severe crohn's or ulcerative colitis, stelara® can provide relief, and is the only approved medication to reduce inflammation on and below the surface of the intestine in uc. you, getting on that flight? back off, uc. stelara® may increase your risk of infections, some serious, and cancer. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, sores, new skin growths, have had cancer, or if you need a vaccine. rpls, a rare, potentially fatal brain condition, may be possible. some serious allergic reactions and lung inflammation can occur. lasting remission can start with stelara®. if you've been financially impacted by covid-19, janssen may be able to help. to customizes yourcan gocar insurancetual.com so you only pay for what you need? really? i didn't-- aah! ok. i'm on vibrate. aaah! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

state of the art technology makes it brilliant. the visionary lexus nx, lease the 2021 nx 300 for $359 a month for 36 months. experience amazing at your lexus dealer. lease the 2021 nx 300 for $359 a month for 36 months. my hygienist cleans with a round head, so does my oral-b. my hygienist personalizes my cleaning, so does my oral-b. my hygienist uses just the right pressure, and so does my oral-b. oral-b combines a dentist-inspired brush head

with the gentle energy of micro-vibrations for the wow of a professional clean feel every day. my mouth says wow and so does my oral-b. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. the moment you sponsor a job on indeed you get a shortlist of quality candidates from a resume data base. claim your seventy-five-dollar credit when you post your first job at indeed.com/groomer

♪ sam stein, everything we just laid out, everything we just heard from kasie, all of the resignations we just put forward there, bill barr speaking out, john kelly speaking out. "the wall street journal," that all probably pushed donald trump to make that videotaped statement that was written for him last night. he feels the walls closing.

he knows what's coming. he knows what's ahead of him. so what is going on inside the white house? who is left at his side? who's advising him? who, in fact, pushed him out there to make that speech last night? >> right, yeah, good question. one thing i'd say is i think the threat of criminal prosecution is also playing a compelling role in getting trump to make that statement. as to who's advising him, look, all of our reporting suggests that it's an incredibly tightening group of aides who are among the most loyal who are sticking around. we have reporting that the white house is essentially a ghost town at this juncture. people are padding their resumes trying to look for future employment wondering if they should stick around to collect the work benefits or if they should leave in protests. you have high ranking aides who are leaving, which is just exacerbating the situation because they are leaving the loyalists in their wake. so, you know, it's an open question as to who is advising the president, whether the president's hearing much of it. obviously the video he put out

suggests that he recognizes the gravity of the situation. but you know, all this talk of the 25th amendment, we have not been picking up much reporting that it's that serious, and when you see people like elaine chao and betsy devos leave, the question becomes why didn't they stay around -- if they were so concerned about the situation, why didn't they stay around and potentially deal with it themselves, right? so those are the questions currently in the white house. there's 12 more days. there's a sense that anything could potentially happen, that no one actually knows where the next, you know -- what the next step is, and like i just said, you know, the fact that it's the loyalists who are the last ones there is giving people on the hill pause. that quote is very valid, do you need people who have some ability to deliver hard truths to the president to stick around precisely so that they can deliver those hard truths. >> you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪

introducing new extra charged coffee at dunkin'. because it's time for a little extra this year. extra boost. extra kick. so we're extra good to go. get a medium hot or iced extra charged coffee for $2. with 20% more caffeine. order ahead plus earn rewards. america runs on dunkin'.

the rx crafted by lexus. get 0.9% financing on the 2021 rx 350. experience amazing at your lexus dealer. get 0.9% financing on the 2021 rx 350. want to eliminate odors without heavy, overwhelming scents? we get it. introducing febreze light. it eliminates odors... with no heavy perfumes... in light scents you'll love. new febreze light.

that's why i get up in the morning! i have a secret method for remembering all my hr passwords. my boss doesn't remember approving my time off. let's just... find that email. the old way of doing business slows everyone down. with paycom, employees enter and manage their own hr data in one easy-to-use software. visit paycom.com for a free demo.

insofar as he encouraged people to storm the capitol and insofar as the president consistently has cast doubt on the outcome of a free and fair election, i believe that that was completely wrong. i think what president trump has been saying about that has been completely wrong, and i'm reservedly condemn encouraging people to behave in the disgraceful way that they did in the capitol, and all i can say is i'm very pleased that the president-elect is now being properly confirmed, duly confirmed in office and that democracy has prevailed. >> uk prime minister boris johnson calling out president trump's role in inciting mob

violence at the capitol on wednesday. >> isn't that remarkable, willie. >> it is. >> that we have the british that are -- british prime minister having to call out mob rule in the united states of america. the last time, of course, the capitol trashed was the war of 1812. you have bill barr calling the president out as we showed earlier this hour using fascist tactics to spur on violence as barr said to stop a constitutional process from moving forward. >> yeah, you watch these world leaders and so many people who have been in washington and around the president who have had to, as part of their jobs, as part of their relationships, as part of the role they play, because of the power of the presidency, had to play footsie with the president or at least publicly be an ally of the president. now those walls are totally breaking down when it's clear the president has lost his support, when it's clear now that he's leaving office. the mask is off, and we're

seeing how people really feel and they're free now to speak openly and to condemn the president the way they probably should have over the course of the last four years. but we're getting more, you know, the jobs number came across just now from december, the economy lost 140,000 jobs, so the recovery now has stopped and slowed. it's breaking down. we had a record yesterday number of cases and deaths in the coronavirus crisis in this country, so we had the siege of the capitol this week but we also have a crisis of public health and a crisis in our economy. >> over 4,000 deaths, mika, yesterday alone. >> it's a record number. >> we're now a thousand more deaths yesterday than occurred on 9/11, more deaths occurred yesterday than have occurred in 20 years of fighting in afghanistan, combat deaths there, and that's happening in one day, and yes, it all goes

back to donald trump's inability to marshal the resources he needed to marshal back in february, late february when he told bob woodward he knew how deadly this virus was. at the same time he was telling americans to just relax. it was going to go away. >> yeah, the response completely botched. joining us now president of the council on foreign relations and author of the book "the world: a brief introduction" richard haa haass, chairman of the renew democracy initiative, garry kasparov, and former acting u.s. solicitor general now an msnbc legal contributor, neal katyal. >> so gary, it is with great regret that i feel the need to go to you first because you were so familiar with how totalitarian leaders want to be

autocrats behaved across eastern europe, and behaved across eastern europe and the soviet union. so where are we as a country today? >> i've been saying for four years that it was donald trump who can expect crisis every day, and most people kept saying, no, it can't happen here. i kept saying it could. yes, america's special, but it has taken its democracy for granted for too long, and it's -- before the elections, i again, warned that we had to prepare for the unimaginable, and speaking about foreign leaders, you have to hear the russian propaganda these days. they are celebrating the american political crisis. vladimir putin is smiling, smiling proudly, and russian propaganda is not going to stop

pointing out in american and telling russian citizens that democracy is corruption and joke. so trump was an agent of chaos as putin expected. >> yeah, putin's getting more than he ever could have dreamed of from this president as he looked at the images at the capitol. neal katyal you wrote a piece saying impeachment proceedings how old start based on that phone call alone. so i imagine you only think that more intensely that he should be impeached at this point, and we're hearing just this morning that there will be a vote next week on impeachment. so you put that together with calls for the invocation of the 25th amendment, what do you see happening over the next 12 days? >> i think there's huge velocity. you're right, on monday i wrote a "new york times" piece calling for a second impeachment, and i said it was going to take more than the two weeks back then to get the process done, but you can disqualify a future

president through the impeachment proceeding but the velocity just in the last 48 hours is incredible on this. the assistant speaker of the house just this morning announcing there will be that vote, senator ben sasse just a few minutes ago on cbs said he would definitely consider impeaching the president, and i think that there are three reasons why we see this immediate call and the urgency. one is because we need to stop this president from exercising the presidential powers over the next 13 days and he has his finger on the nuclear codes and buttons. this is a guy who could pardon as president johnson did after the civil war all the enemies of the united states who tried to, you know, storm the capitol on wednesday. also, secondly, you want to set a precedent for the future. i mean, when impeachment failed the last time around, i think it set sent a very dangerous signal that it was okay for presidents to cheat and lie to try and win an election. you know, i said in a book back then, you know, if he gets away

with it, he's going to do more and worse. that doesn't make ne knows tra da mouse, i'm a normal average person who could see those consequences. and lastly and most importantly, i think we need to get people on the record, everyone in the house, everyone in the senate, every member of the cabinet, do they stand with this nonsense? they got to take a side now. they can't just hide in the shado shadows. so an impeachment vote flushes all of those votes out into the open. >> yeah. yes. yes, yes. >> it's a simple, simple question. do you support fascism or do you support freedom? there is no other way to describe what donald trump did the other day by trying to use violence, trying to inspire violence, trying to inspire an insurrection against the federal government of the united states of america to stop a democratic

process, a constitutionally ordained process for his own political goals. that's fascism, so yes, they need to be on record. do they support fascism, or do they support freedom. richard haass, it's your job to talk to diplomats across the world and world leaders every day. what are you hearing in your daily conversations, and are these world leaders hopeful that the united states is going to turn a page in two weeks? >> our allies in europe, in particular some extent in asia are hopeful that we will turn a page. they look forward to the next president, but joe, we shouldn't kid ourselves. the damage we have done to our reputation, to our standing, to the feeling among allies that we can be relied on, they placed their security in our hands. we have done lasting damage to our position in the world. as gary pointed out,

authoritarians today in china are celebrating. they're basically running tv things saying this proves the advantages of our system. you can thank us. democracy is a dangerous thing, the same way this arab leaders did after the arab spring. just think the next time we try to advocate for democracy, but what about the next time we say you can't have nuclear weapons to some country because you don't have the political stability and maturity to handle them is this how's that going to look? how's that going to play? i think all of this comes together. this is going to be a long-term ball and chain on our ability to be effective in the world. plus, we're going to have to put even more of our inward. we've already got a deal with covid. you've got to do the investigations about the incompetence or worse at the capitol the other day. we've got to deal with racial and political division co.

coming in joe biden faces this enormous difficult international inbox. think of the domestic demands. this is about as bad of an inheritance as any president has had in quite some time. >> i want to make clarification. i said there will be a vote on impeachment next week. it's still possible. there are a lot of members of the house saying they want a vote on impeachment. it has not been scheduled yet. gary, to pick up on richard haass's point about what comes next. as you've studied these societies, as you've studied these kind of divisions, alyssa slot kin said the external threats to america while still very serious have been surpassed by our internal divisions. so what happens next in societies like ours? as you watch these play out, what comes next? how do you put it back together? >> it is very important now to understand that trump's

impeachment is about the future because america was very lucky that trump was such a buffoon, but such an incompetent narcissist made it all the way to the president. and trump, remember, trump is the weakest link because he would never -- it's not enough to beat trump, the next nationalist demagogue can follow his foot steps and surpass him by being much smarter. so it's important now just to fight trump as america is fighting covid-19 because america's being attacked by a dangerous virus at the same time, covid-19 and trumpism, which is a well-known mix of demagoguery, nationalism, and autocracy. we should try to make a trump vaccine because trump is a very weak version of the deadly virus of dictatorship that strengthens in time.

that's why the impeachment now, it's the best protection against any future trump smarter younger more subtle politically to threaten american democracy. >> all right, the justice department yesterday didn't rule out pursuing charges against president trump for his possible role in inciting the mob that marched to the capitol. overwhelmed officers, and stormed the building. u.s. attorney in washington michael sherwin told reporters, quote, we are looking at all actors, not only the people who went into the building. when asked if such targets would include the president, sherwin replied, we're looking at all actors. if the evidence fits the elements of a crime, they are going to be charged. neal katyal, what are the potentials here for accountability through the department of justice as it pertains to the president of the united states, rudy giuliani,

mark meadows, ivanka trump, donald trump jr., and so on? >> yeah, there's a serious possibility of criminal liability for any and all of those individuals. it does look like incitement, but of course, you know, there may be factual stuff about their criminal intent and the like, so it will require the opening of an investigation and, you know, traditional law enforcement t h techniques to bring that to bear. this swintersects in a really interesting way in the discussion about impeachment. there are three ways to remove a president, one's impeachment, the second is the 25th amendment, the third is resignation. there's a way in which actually trump might want to resign given these criminal investigations. it's not just the incitement one of wednesday but the pre-existing one that his justice department has protected him from for four years involving financial fraud, individual number one, all the stuff in the mueller report. that's like a field day for a prosecutor, and it's always hard

for a new justice department to prosecute a former president. i mean, it's something that you have to be incredibly reluctant to do for all of the best of reasons. events like wednesday, even apart from whether or not trump committed incitement or something, like wednesday make it easier to prosecute a guy like this. he's not now an honored president. he's a treasonist one and it changes the dynamics at the justice department. so for that reason, he might want to step aside and have pence act as president and pardon him because the justice department has already opined that a sitting president can't pardon himself. >> well, and also just looking at the issue of incitement, joe. wouldn't they be looking at the fact that he said he loved them, these people, as this was happening. and ivanka trump called them patriots as this was happening. and that was pretty much all they did. they didn't beg them to stop and pray for peace and pull become

saying we didn't mean it, and there's videos before the president even spoke talking about people going out there and fighting. go fight. go do the right thing. aren't those all pieces of evidence now for incitement? >> well, i don't know about the president saying that he loved them afterwards. certainly it would maybe show his state of mind that he considered them to be allies of his, even after they stormed the capitol, but for the incitement, i would think, and, neal, correct me if i'm wrong, i think you'd be looking at the fact that the president said, you're not going to change anything by being weak. you have to be strong. we have to march up to the capitol. we have to be strong along with donald trump jr. saying if you don't support my father, we're coming after you and we're going to have a lot of fun while we're doing it. and rudy giuliani urging the crowd to engage in, quote,

combat justice. i am but a simple country lawyer, neal, but since those words incited a mob to go up and commit insurrection, to try to stop a constitutionally ordained process, it certainly seems to be fairly strong evidence of incitement. >> you are absolutely right. it's strong evidence. on the other side, though, incitement cases are really hard for good reason because we have first amendment freedoms. so that line between action and calling out the mob to do something and exercising freedom of speech is always a very thin one. and so it's a hard case. it will depend a lot on, as i say, the evidence that the prosecutors are able to uncover about the state of mind of these folks. and we just don't know that right now. we have seen a video of some of them dancing while watching television of these events,

which is definitely probative of someone's state of mind. but it's a tough law enforcement investigation that's got to take place first. >> though i'm a simple country lawyer, even i learned early on also that political speech is the most protected of speech. the first amendment is -- does not grant blanket protections to people to say whatever they want to say. but when it comes to political speech, the supreme court of the united states has bent over backwards protecting that, except in the most extraordinary of circumstances. the question is whether this would be deemed one of those extraordinary circumstances. garry kasparov, thank you for being with us. neal, as always. >> thank you. >> we appreciate it. we'll be right back for final insights from richard haass. "morning joe" continues. inues.t? it's what i use! neutrogena®. the #1 retinol brand used most by dermatologists. rapid wrinkle repair® visibly smooths fine lines in 1 week. deep wrinkles in 4.

so you can kiss wrinkles... and other wrinkle creams goodbye! rapid wrinkle repair®. pair with our most concentrated retinol ever for 2x the power. neutrogena®.

research shows people remember so to help you remember that liberty mutual customizes your home insurance, here's one that'll really take you back. it's customized home insurance from liberty mutual! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ 2020's done a new era has begun so keep pushing forward... because this is twenty twenty won make a different future start different at godaddy.com

keeping your oysters busihas you swamped. you need to hire. i need indeed indeed you do. the moment you sponsor a job on indeed you get a shortlist of quality candidates from a resume data base claim your seventy-five-dollar credit when you post your first job at indeed.com/promo each febreze car vent clip gives you up to 30 days of fresh air. so, you can have open window freshness... even with all the windows up. enjoy fresh, any time, with febreze.

look at a peaceful, placid, washington, d.c., as the sun rises over the nation's capital. you know, richard, 1974, late july, early august 1974, richard nixon, his presidency was coming to an end, and he knew it. and it was his cabinet members who had to grapple with the end of that presidency and try to hold things together. talk about that and what's probably happening inside the

white house today. >> exactly right, joe. it was my first sumner washington. james schlesinger was the secretary of defense. he was worried about nixon's mental state, emotional state and what would become the final days of his presidency and he essentially reached an arrangement with the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff and people still close to the president that if the president started to do something erratic with u.s. military and, above all, nuclear forces, that water was not to be carried out unless he, schlesinger, approved it. he interrupted the normal chain of command. we need something like that now. we need mike pence, robert o'brien, the national security adviser and mark milley, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. we need them to work out an informal arrangement. all de facto 25th amendment. while we -- this possible impeachment process moves forward, i don't think a formal 25th amendment process is going to move forward. we need to make sure that in the

10, 11 days that donald trump still has as commander in chief, there's a limit to the damage he can achieve. we saw what happened howednesday. we don't want anything like that, much less something worse to happen. we need the people around him to effectively constrain him. >> richard haass, thank you very much. willie geist? >> well, it's the end of a long week that has shaken the country, obviously. a police officer was killed inside the united states capitol. a woman, a protester, a rioter was killed inside the united states capitol because of a lie she was told by president trump and many other people. today we heard that the economy has stalled, that the recovery has come to a halt for now. that we lost jobs last month and also that we set new records for deaths and cases of coronavirus. it's been a terrible week. let's just say it. but 12 days from now, donald trump will leave office, maybe sooner, depending on what happens. and a new group of people who take all these problems

seriously will be here. that's not a political statement. that's just a fact. >> and this week also, mika, saw the democrats against all odds take control of the united states senate. mitch mcconnell will be minority leader over the next two years. we saw joe biden certified officially, the next president of the united states. something that the president admitted to finally last night. >> that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> hi there. i'm stephanie ruhle live at msnbc headquarters here in new york city. it is friday, january 8th. the end of a traumatic and difficult week for our nation. this morning, the fallout from the assault on the u.s. capitol is still taking shape. over the last 24 hours, federal prosecutors have started filing charges against the rioters. 55 of them so far. and they are asking for help to find others.