good day. from msnbc world headquarters here in new york, welcome to "weekends with alex witt." now to the latest. we begin with a live look at capitol hill. 11 days to go before the swearing-in of president-elect joe biden and breaking news of arrests taking place around this country after members of the extremist groups stormed the capitol on wednesday, forcing elected leaders into several hours of lockdown. at least 40 people are now facing charges in superior court. 16 are charged with federal crimes. that includes richard barnett of arkansas photographed here in speaker pelosi's office. he is charged with illegal violent entry and stealing her mail. derrick evans was arrested.

he live streamed himself and also charged is lonnie coffman for possession of 1 molotov cocktails, hand guns and a semiautomatic weapon. meanwhile t president is spending the first weekend without access to his twitter account. a secondary attack was being planned for the capitol on january 17th. and more fallout for the president could come as early as monday as house speaker nancy pelosi says he could face a new impeachment trial for the role that he may have played in the attack. helping us sort through the latest developments a trio of correspondents with the latest reporting. i'm going to speak with national security expert as well. president trump can become the first president to be impeached twice. josh lederman, are we hearing anything from the white house? look at tech companies they're pulling the plug on his social

media. >> reporter: yeah, it's interesting how the two issues are converging because typically when something like were to occur, the house pursuing a fresh impeachment charge against the president he would be most likely to take to his favorite platform twitter to make his views about that known. but of course, the president unable to do so. the white house did release a statement from the president via another twitter handle that they control last night. the @potus account which is an official government account in which the president said that he essentially does not think that they should go forward with impeachment with just 12 days left, something that would be called divisive as a time for what he calls healing at this point. the president not exactly acting in a healing capacity in his actions that helped contribute to that riot that we saw at the capitol earlier this week. but now we're hearing from the president's family members as well. donald trump jr., the president's son, calling the

actions by twitter to take him off of their platform a full frontal assault on free speech. but democrats moving ahead anyway with their attempt to try for the first time in history to impeach a president for the second time. take a listen to what democratic congressman hakeem jeffries had to say about that this morning. >> we are proceeding with every available means that sat our disposal to ensure that donald trump is removed. that's the objective. yes, he is in the twitter penalty box. he still has access to the nuclear codes. and so every minute, every hour, every day, every week that he's in office is a threat to the health and safety of the united states of america, our democracy and its citizen. >> reporter: that's why plan a quote should be for the president to resign without the

need to force him out of office. plan "b" would be for the cabinet and mike pence to invoke 25th amendment but that is looking decreasingly likely as some of the cabinet members who would be most likely to act on that are instead resigning themselves. so democrats instead left with plan "c" which is this attempt to try to impeach him a second time in house. then that has to go to the senate for a trial where it's unlike they can try to move and convict the president with so few days left in the term. >> thank you for that. while democrats are attempting to move ahead on impeachment, mitch mcconnell is throwing cold water on that move. let's go to is a hill, what are they saying about this? >> there's fury and dismay and there's determination to do something about president trump. they don't want to be the opposition party that sits back

and doesn't act on something as grave as this. now, the top two democrats in congress, nancy pelosi in the house and chuck schumer in the senate, have said that the president should resign. the cabinet should remove him. as josh pointed out, that is looking highly unlikely and the only option is impeachment. they're already circulating among democrats articles of impeachment. one single article called incitement of insurrection that accuses the president of willfully inciting violence against the united states. that is an article of impeachment that democrats appear likely to take up as early as next week. if there's no intervening action between then. let's take a listen to what nancy pelosi said on "60 minutes" capturing how she feels about this. >> sadly, the person that's running the executive branch is a deranged, unhinged, dangerous president of the united states. and only a number of days before we can be protected from him. but he has done something so

serious that there should be prosecution against him. >> well, i gather that the 25th amendment is off the table. >> no, it isn't. nothing is off the table. >> now, the speaker has even inquired about the president's access to the nuclear codes to give you a sense of where her mind is at the moment. the biggest problem for democrats at this point is the calendar. president trump has only 11 days in office left and mitch mcconnell the top republican has not explicitly taken an issue on the impeachment and the conviction but he's circulating a memo pointing out that without unanimous concept which is how the senate does pretty much anything quickly it is not able to receive any articles of impeachment on january 19th. that is one day before president-elect biden takes office. now, that puts democrats in a position of deciding do they want to spend some of the early days of joe biden's presidency focusing on impeaching an convicting the previous

president? the last thing to keep in mind, throwing him out of office to be to prevent him from running office again. he is entitled to seek a second term, there are rumors he might do that in 2024. if the democrats are able to convict him, a big if, they intend to include language to bar him from ever running for president again. alex? >> yeah. again a realistic breakdown and i had that conversation with melissa murray about whether that could be accomplished. thank you for that. many questions remain over the security failure at the capitol as officials raced to figure out what in the world went wrong. nbc's national security correspondent ken dilanian is joining us. what are the biggest questions that remain about how all of this happened? >> hey, alex, so it's now very clear that the capitol police utterly failed in their mission to protect the capitol and that's why the chief of the

force is resigning, but now questions are turning to the larger and massive intelligence failure on the part of the fbi and other federal agencies who utterly failed to see the evidence right in front of them on social media that this was going to happen. a foreign diplomat based in washington told me he knew that the capitol building was going to be attacked. our colleagues at nbc news have uncovered a raft of postings from the days before the event. let me read one as an example. you can go to washington on january 6th and help storm the capital one person posted the day before the riot. we will storm government buildings, kill cops, kill security guards, kill federal employees and agents and demand a recount. yet, alex, the fbi, the d.c. chief of police and other top government officials are telling reporters that they had no indication that there was anything but peaceful protests. let's take a listen to what some of the people have been saying yesterday. >> there was no indication that

there was anything other than first amendment protected activity. >> there was no intelligence that suggested that there would be a breach of the u.s. capitol. >> overall, the assessments that we got repeatedly was no skigt -- no indications of significant -- significant violent protests. >> so alex, those comments don't pass the laugh test. but it's not just that these people are incompetent. there's a larger issue here and frank will talk about it in a moment. the fbi does not have the same authorities to look at domestic extremist content on the internet that they do international terrorism content. that is something that i think is going to get a lot of attention in the coming days. why did these gaps exist in the laws, why weren't authorities able to see the obvious threats on social media and pass them on to the relevant authorities including the capitol police who might have been much better

prepared for the riot that they didn't see coming. >> those three sound bites were just shocking. i mean, to your point they didn't pass the laugh test but you know what's disturbing about this? this sounds like what we were talking about 20 years ago in the wake of 9/11. like the left hand wasn't able to know what the right hand was doing and i mean, what do you mean the fbi can't take a look at what's happening domestically? i mean, well, okay -- >> there's a similar dynamics, you're right, there's a gap in the law. because there's no material support, the fbi needs an open case to go and look at american social media. people have a right to speak and they have a right to be free from government snooping until they cross the line into violence which they clearly did. but if the fbi isn't looking they don't see that. and now, of course they're pouring over social media postings, gathering evidence of the misdeeds that all the people committed but in the days before

this, you know, they weren't looking or they didn't analyze it and they certainly didn't pass it on to the people that needed that information, alex. >> ken, thank you very much. as you said i'm going to be joined by our colleague. for those of you who know, a former assistant director for counterintelligence at the fbi and author of "the fbi way inside the bureau's code of excellence." frank, what do you make of what ken pointed out there? seriously that the fbi doesn't have authority, doesn't have the jurisdiction to look at social media domestically and say, this -- these are note just crackpots. there's a dangerous precedent being set here. >> yeah, alex, first, i consider ken dilanian a close friend and colleague but i have to respectfully disagree with him as this is an fbi failure. after he made that comment, which is this is a failure of

legislation. the fbi is not permitted to look and monitor at the very same things that you and i can sit at home and look at at twitter, and on parler. i saw this playing out. lots of people saw this playing out for at least the last two weeks to include specific quotes about overwhelming the capitol police. quote, how to breach the barriers in front of the capitol. but here's the problem. we don't have a domestic terrorism law in the united states. if you switched this over and changed the religion of these folks from christianity to islam and changed the skin color from white to brown, international law -- excuse me, international terrorism laws would have kicked in. if they did it for an ideology related to jihad or establishing a caliphate, the fbi would have had the investigative toolkit to develop undercover agents inside the groups. we can't do that because there

is no domestic terrorism law that looks anything -- there is no domestic terrorism law and unlike the international side that allows proactive response. >> so i'm going to ask you in your opinion, frank, "a," should there be and -- i'm just trying to look at this real practically. at the end of the day, when the fbi leaves the office, gets home, starts looking at things on the internet, happens upon this and has the knowledge of what they have read, they are not legally allowed to come back into the office the next day and say, guys, there was something i read that was concerning. they can't discuss that among their colleagues? >> that's because -- yes, you're right. that's because the american people have decided they don't want that and maybe it's time to change that. in the past years there have been proposed bills in the house and the senate to deal with the lack of domestic terrorism language. yes, the fbi agents abide by the

law and they don't do something they're not allowed to do. as ken referred to it, here's what has to happen. there has to be an articulation of violence that they're moving down the path. it is being planned specifically and that someone has to alert if the fbi is not inside the groups, someone has to alert them to it, unlike the international muslim jihadists. remember the plot to kidnap the governor of michigan, one of the group had to come forward to law enforcement, even they're disturbing me. that's how law enforcement got on to this. >> so we have this social media website parler and that one has been filled with violent rhetoric from trump supporters and google has suspended the app from the store. apple is threatening to do the same. what exactly is parler, who is using it? is it something we could see the president get on since he's been permanently suspended from

twitter? >> oh, i think we're likely. let's address what parler is. it has become the alternate go to place for the extremist fringe when they get blocked by twitter. it's run by wealthy people and there are even some prominent television hosts associated with it and they're all migrating in droves over to parler. to the point that it might have crashed recently or will be about to crash. and here's the good news/bad news. so twitter blocks the president but now you force him to move over to parler and now you have a place where he can lead more quietly an entire insurgency inside this nation if we're not careful and we don't wrap our hands around legislation that can govern social media. >> pretty chilling that prospect. let's listen to the new york times which offered up the

chants from inside the office building and they suggested that mike pence became the target after trump targeted him in a tweet. take a listen. >> where's mike pence? >> you hear dozens of people shouting where's pence, find pence. >> wow. >> you know, there were also pictures of the riots inside the senate chambers, those are zip ties and we saw people walking around with the police property. what does this tell you about the motives of some of those rioters that got inside? >> well, first, on the first question about targeting pence, that is directly tied to language from president trump. that simply would not have happened if president trump

hadn't singled out pence not quote doing his job. and drawing weapons inside the congress is astounding with me. with regard to where this is going and what it says about the president and who's inside, we're also disturbed by the proliferation of tattoos and insignia and clothing that relate to white supremacy. norse mythology that has been adapted by white supremacists, and a code that says 6 million was not enough, with regard to the holocaust. this tells you a whole lot about who the people are and in addition add the very disturbing possibility that some current or former police and or military was involved in organizing this. don't be surprised if they're taking a very methodical approach to an organizational strategy to take down organizational leaders of these -- of this insurrection. >> let me ask you on the heels of that. the fbi says there's no

indication antifa members disguised themselves as pro trump supporters to provoke the mob, but that's being repeated by several lawmakers. what do you look to prove that antifa was not a part of in? >> well, first, you mentioned parler earlier. we have seen plans on parler for these groups like proud boys to dress like antifa, whatever that means, and black lives matter and disguise themselves so that they look like that. so there would be video imaginary that would confuse people and parler is picking that up and it's essential for the truth to come out. that's why you're hearing law enforcement say there's zero evidence that happened and in fact, you'll remember back several months when the fbi director chris wray testified on the hill that in fact and this has upset the president, that they haven't seen violence committed by antifa as an organized effort and group but

rather that antifa was an ideology. >> exactly. okay. frank, much appreciate it. there may be a number of clues that were overlooked and including what the personal attorney to the president said two years ago. and will the president leave gracefully or be he be forced out? you're watching "weekends with alex witt." out? you're watching "weekends with alex witt. it's been broken. and put back together. this is hal's relief, knowing he's covered by medicare from blue cross blue shield. and with coverage you can trust, backed by over 80 years of healthcare expertise, we'll be there when it matters most. this is medicare from blue cross blue shield. this is the benefit of blue. this is medicare from blue cross blue shield. it's moving day. and are doing the heavy lifting, jess is busy moving her xfinity internet and tv services. it only takes about a minute.

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impeach the president again, invoke the 25th amendment or wait to see if the president resigns. those are the options facing the democrats and at least two republicans who say that he should be removed for inciting the riots. joining me is debbie stabenow, democrat from michigan. good to see you, ma'am. i want to play something that daniel goldman said last night on all in with chris hays.

>> you are sort of trampling on the ordinary process of impeachment just to get as -- to try to remove him. but that's not going to happen before january 20th. everyone needs to be clear. he will not be removed by the senate before january 20th. so what are you trying to gain through impeachment? it's unclear to me that it's worth the time and energy practically speaking because it's not going to work. >> senator, what do you make of that? >> well, first, great to be with you and basically we have two things we're trying to accomplish right now. one is to hold this president accountable for something unimaginable and un-american and this was not american to have this insurgency that cost people's lives and he needs to be held accountable along with

the people involved. but secondly, how to make sure that more people aren't hurt or killed as a result of his reckless actions in the next 11 days. so that's the question. the best thing to do of course is for the vice president to work with the cabinet to use the 25th amendment. instead of the cabinet officials, the secretaries running away right now at the last minute they ought to be staying if they care about the country and helping to remove him. but short of that, the issue then becomes, again, impeachment. and so it is something that at minimum the house impeaching him will put him on record as the first president ever in the history of the country to have had that happen twice and the second thing is that if he would be removed or at least even after the swearing-in of president joe biden be actually

convicted, it would at least make sure that he can't run again and he would lose any salary and pension and so on. so these are not -- certainly impeachment is not a good option because of the time frame. 25th amendment is much, much better, but we have to make sure that he can't proceed to do the kinds of outrageous, dangerous things that will get people hurt or killed in the next 11 days and there's absolutely no -- we have no confidence that he won't try to do that. >> there are some of your republican colleagues i'm sure you heard them saying that the impeachment trial would on the create further division. what do you say to that? >> well, president donald trump and the people that have enabled him for the last four years, his leagues that stood up in violation of the 12th amendment to the u.s. constitution on wednesday to try to overturn a

duly elected american election that have caused the deep divisions in our country, we know that we need to work together to get things done. but there is no way that this is about, you know, impeachment causing further division. the division is there right now. what we need is accountability. we need accountability. we need to support a new president moving forward and to rebuild the country. >> how about, senator, two of the colleagues of whom you speak right there. senators hawley and cruz. should they be held accountable for their actions? >> i think that everyone that took specific actions to inflame this dangerous situation, this un-american situation, and those who stood up in violation of the constitution should be held accountable in some way. i do. and we certainly are seeing in

their home states right now their -- the leading papers in their states calling on them to resign. they certainly are facing a lot of wrath of their own supporters and i think this is appropriate. this is not a game. the people involved in this act like words mean nothing and we know that's not true. particularly in the age of social media. you have the capacity to say anything, any conspiracy theory and cause people to be afraid and angry and divided. words matter and particularly for those of us in elected positions, we have to have some sense of responsibility for the words that come out of our mouths as well as the actions that we take. >> you are on the senate floor, there are images circulating of one of the rioters with the zip ties, suggesting he'd take hostages. another was arrested for having the semiautomatic weapons and

molotov cocktails. this could have ended worse. what is your reaction to all of that? >> well, alex, it's frightening and it's heart breaking at the same time. you know, i think i'm still getting my head wrapped around it because when we were in the chambers and we were listening to the debate about whether or not we should support an objection to the arizona vote and so we weren't watching tv. we didn't see what was happening all around us. until it right on us. until the vice president was quickly taken out of the room is by secret service and we -- and we were told to say in our seats and they were locking all the doors and so on. as we begin to see more and more of what could have happened, it's frightening and i wouldn't wish that on anybody. by the way, as an aside, i think it's importance. my daughter said to me yesterday who has a kindergartner an a

third grader in school, mom, i worry about this happening -- you know to my kids every day they'll be told to get in the corner under their desk because gunmen are coming into the school. so i hope maybe my colleagues will have some sense of the horror of that. and maybe we can do something about that too. >> the issue of gun control is something that should be taken up and i hope you're able to do so in this next term. senator debbie stabenow of michigan, thank you. meantime, coming up next, michael cohen, how his predictions about the president came true and what he thinks will happen next. t came true and what he thinks will happen next i want... ♪ it's the easiest because it's the cheesiest. kraft. for the win win. unstopables in-wash scent booster

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given my experience working for mr. trump, i fear that if he loses the election in 2020 that there will never be a peaceful transition of power and this is why i agreed to appear before you today. >> michael cohen there. warning members of congress nearly two years ago that he

feared about what would happen if the president lost the election and now the trump administration is facing the fallout from the breach of the capitol by the president's supporters, which came after two months of railing against the election results. president trump now finally committing to a peaceful transfer of power. take a listen. >> now congress has certified the results and a new administration will be inaugurated on january 20th. my focus now turns to ensuring a smooth, orderly and seamless transition of power. >> joining us me is michael cohen, the author of "disloyal" and podcast mea culpa michael cohen. i'll get to your reaction about the president's video. you were right. how were you so sure that trump would incite the masses the way that he did? >> because i know the man peter than anybody and it's really just a terrible display by

donald trump in a very weak and a feeble attempt to keep power. that's what donald trump is all about. and that was the whole purpose of him in essence running for president. it was to obtain the power, but really not even the power so that he could do good for america. it was really so that he could do better for his eponymous company. it was supposed to in essence be the greatest infomercial in the history of politics but it didn't turn out that way, did it? >> no. did you think your testimony wasn't taken seriously enough? >> i don't think it was taken seriously by many people at all. you know there it was 20 months ago, basically telling you like nostradamus what was going to happen, 20 months later in the event that he lost the election. and it's not the only thing that i stated. i also stated that donald trump was a con man. he's a racist, a sexist, a misogynist and many other things, all of which have turned out to be proven to be true.

>> so you just scoffed at the president's video there saying that he's committed to the peaceful transfer of power. why is that and what more do you think could happen in the next 11 days? can you think of something that the president could be cooking up? >> sure. one of the things that i said 20 months ago was that donald trump speaks in code. and that's exactly what he did on wednesday when we saw his behavior and we saw the statements that he was making. he certainly did not turn out and say, i want you, my -- you know, my maga supporters, i want you to go storm the capitol. but if you look at the different pieces that he said, we cannot allow this to happen, right? we have to take control. we have to show the power. and we're going to go walk to the capitol. now, yeah, he didn't say let's go storm the capitol. but when you have people who are riled up and willing to commit this seditious and this disgraceful behavior, donald trump knows exactly how to blow

these dog whistles to get his maga supporters to behave in the despicable way they did on wednesday and he knew exactly what he was doing and i also stated before anybody else came out and said it that i guarantee that donald trump was sitting there and watching what was going on and he was elated at the spectacle that he had created, watching people wearing maga flags, capes with the name trump across it. watching people fighting with the police. he enjoys this tumult and it's really terrible. >> is that, michael -- there are reports that back up your assessment there. is that because the president's more concerned with how this would reflect on him versus how it would reflect on our country? >> well, isn't it always about him? it has nothing to do with this country. it's always about donald trump and the more people start to hear me and i'm going to try to do what trump does which is to say things over and over and over again. and i'm going to say it again

and again. donald trump does not care about anyone or anything other than himself. >> how -- >> donald trump does not care about anyone or anything other than himself. and if we say that over and over again, maybe the supporters, these individuals that will now face criminal action, maybe they will understand that this man is setting them up like he set me up for a fall. >> so if he doesn't care about anyone but himself, i mean, i immediately think about his family, right? what do you think first lady melania trump, what do you think his kids are saying to him right now? is there any reason to believe, michael, that they're encouraging him to go quietly, you know, stand down. let's not have any more fights? is there any chance they're urging him to just leave before january 20th? >> there's nothing that they can say to him. he doesn't respect them. he basically only listens to them if they are in agreement with what he's doing. he has no respect for them and

he has made that clear which i talk about ad nauseam in my book "disloyal." unless they're acknowledging that the things that he's saying and the things that he wants to do, then he pushes them out of the circle and each one of the children are so desperate for love from their father they have this longing need for love from their father that they're willing to even go along with this type of behavior which is so undemocratic which is so unprecedented in our history it doesn't matter. so as long as that daddy gives them an acknowledgment and there by his side when this is all going on. it's really sad. >> michael, very quickly, i want to remind viewers that you said on this broadcast that the president would not be attending the inauguration. you were right. i'm going to ask you how do you think he's reacting to not having twitter any longer? >> oh, this is -- for him not to have twitter is for him not being able to eat a hamburger. this is the worst thing in the world, right? a coke and -- i mean, you're

taking away a child's toy because that's what it is to him. this is his ability to communicate with the masses that he has created this, this fiction in his head that he has a hundred million supporters and you're taking way the oxygen for him to breathe by removing him from twitter and social media. he's picking up the phone and his first reaction was always to go to twitter to attack somebody. >> michael cohen, good to see you. come see me soon. >> next time with a hair cut. we find out why the impeachment this time would be different. ind out why the impeachment this time would be different.

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confirms the details in the story that just broke moments ago that president trump pressured a georgia elections investigator in a separate phone call urging the official to quote to find the fraud. this is different than the call we reported on last sunday. nbc's julia jester is in atlanta for us. i know you were instrumental in getting us the information about the call last sunday and you heard from the georgia secretary of state's office on this. what's the latest? >> reporter: hey, alex, another week, another call. the georgia secretary of state's office confirming that shortly before christmas, president trump called the state's chief elections investigator to quote, find the fraud. saying that that official would be quote a national hero if that individual did so. and this came shortly after his chief of staff mark meadows visited the state as cobb county was conducting its signature

match audit. this call is slightly different than the one he had with the secretary of state brad raffensberger and this call between trump and the chief elections investigator was doing an ongoing investigation in which 99.9% accuracy was found in the processes here. nonetheless, this is yet another attempt by the president to interfere in georgia's elections process. he called governor brian kemp, he's called secretary of state raffensberger and this new call shows the lengths that he was willing to go to try to overturn the results here in this state. now, the white house is declining to comment on this call, but we'll see if there are any legal ramifications for this moving forward. alex? >> okay, thank you for that update on the breaking news. meantime, the house could introduce articles of impeachment as soon as monday but what would that process look

like with just 11 days left in trump's presidency? joining me is congresswoman pramila jayapal. i'm glad to see you and i'm glad to see you safe and sound, but let's get to this. what is going to happen this week? how will this move more quickly than when trump was impeached last year and that report you heard from julia jester, can that be included in all of the allegations of an impeachable offense given this president? >> alex, thanks so much for having me on. you know, i think that the situation we're in is that we fear for the safety and the security of our country for every day that donald trump remains in the white house. we saw that he incited, abetted and fueled the insurrectionists who overtook the capitol, the most brutal assault on the united states capitol since the war of 1812 and donald trump was

at the center of making that happen. in fact, today protesters are -- insurrectionists are saying they did it because donald trump asked them to and everyone is clear about how they that mob came to the capitol. we need to remove this president immediately and we are pursuing multiple options. of course, we have written to vice president pence to invoke the 25th amendment. it appears that he does not want to do that at this point. it would be the quickest, easiest way, frankly, to remove the president, but short of that and i believe that he's not going to do that, we will have to introduce articles of impeachment. that final decision has not been made but they can be introducedly as monday. they will be crafted narrowly. i'm a co-signer to the articles so i have seen the language. it is really around one article of incitement of insurrection.

and, you know, it does reference georgia. it was the previous georgia call, not this one. perhaps we can update it. but the article is very narrowly crafted so we are very clear that this is about what happened on january 6th. there were -- it was not bread crumbs, it was giant leaves of bread on this path that led us to where we are. >> before we even get to the senate taking it up, how much republican support do you need to get this through the house? >> well, we can pass it through the house with a simple majority. it will come up as a privileged resolution which means it bypasses the judiciary committee and go straight to the floor. there will be a simple hour of debate on a privilege resolution so it can pass as early as monday or tuesday, probably tuesday. then go straight to the senate. now, of course, mitch mcconnell would have to take it up and we don't know whether that will happen. i do believe there may be some

republicans that vote with us on this narrowly crafted article of impeachment this time because there are some of them including adam kinzinger and others who say that they believe that donald trump is a danger in the white house and i think we have -- you know, we need the country to understand that this is not a partisan issue. this is about the safety and security of our country. leading the codes -- the nuclear codes and the -- you know, all controls of our law enforcement, intelligence agencies, defense department, in the hands of somebody who is truly unhinged, that is absolutely unthinkable, but of course we have known for some time that this is the case. but what happened on the 6th is just hard for anybody to have imagined. >> oh, absolutely. but if you look at the calendar -- again, i'm just looking at this from a logistical, very practical perspective, say that -- make the assumption that it passes

the house, do you think -- is there any indication that mitch mcconnell would be willing to reconvene the senate prior to then to get this going? >> well, not at this point, but as you know, alex, everything has been very fast moving and i can't imagine that donald trump wants to be a president who gets impeached twice by the u.s. house of representatives. so while i understand that people understand that mitch is going to bring it up or that pence is going to invoke the 25th, or that donald trump will resign, i think we have to continue to do everything we can to highlight the danger to the country and to take the action we in the house of representatives need to pass. we can't be thinking about what the senate does, frankly. we have to sound the red alarm about the danger we are in for anybody that didn't watch the proceedings on the 6th and see what happened. it was horrific. >> the reason i said i'm awfully

glad to see you safe and round is because the chaos on wednesday, you were right there. we can see you in the gallery overlooking the house floor. first of all, did you ever dream that you would be in that position and what -- what goes through your mind when you think about whether or not rioters could have gotten any further than they did? did you fear a personal attack? >> i did and many of us did. we're processing it days after the attack. the assault. we could hear the people banging on the doors that separated us from the insurrectionists. we heard the shots being fired into the chamber below us. because we were in the gallery we were not able to be taken out, so we watched the entire thing unfold and didn't know frankly if we were going to be able to get out or not. you know, so i think it was extremely difficult. when we finally did get it out,

it was 45 minutes, perhaps an hour after the other members were taken off. we were finally ushered out very quickly. and we saw some of the insurrectionists who were spread eagled on the floor right next to us as we had to walk down the stairs. >> wow. >> you know, surrounded by capitol police with guns. those were the people that were trying to get in the doors but we could hear the chaos as capitol police were saying do you have the keys? i mean, we didn't know if the doors would be able to be locked. so it was -- it was quite terrifying but honestly, the fear i feel is for the country. you know, i'm an immigrant woman of color and i don't have -- you know, to see the confederacy rising i don't know how to say it any more clearly. with confederate flags planted on the united states capitol, a noose hanging down and violent armed militia who came very

prepared with the plan, knew exactly where they were going and exactly who they were trying to target. that is terrifying to me. >> you're a brave and strong congresswoman, thank you. come see me again. historian michael beschloss, next. historian michael besc, next e? try new tide pods hygienic clean heavy duty. see the difference, after being washed with tide hygienic clean. for a deep clean, try tide hygienic clean! if it's got to be clean, it's got to be tide. ♪ plant-powered creative roots gives kids the hydration they need, with the fruit flavors they love. and one gram of sugar. find creative roots in the kids' juice aisle. if you have moderate ato severe psoriasis... or psoriatic arthritis, little things, can become your big moment. that's why there's otezla.

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theraflu hot beats cold. so when you do, make it count with crest pro-health. powerful relief so you can restore and recover. it protects the 8 areas dentists check for a healthier mouth. the #1 toothpaste brand in america. crest. republican senator ben sass says the president was delighted by scenes he saw playing out on television when his supporters stormed the capitol. >> i think donald trump wanted there to be massive division and he was telling people that was path he was going to stay in office after january 20th. that was never true. he wanted chaos on television. as this was unfolding on television donald trump was walking around the house confused about why other people on his attempt weren't as excited as he was as you had rioters pushing against capitol

police trying to get into the building. he was delighted. >> joining me now, michael, msnbc presidential historian. michael, please try to make sense of what we just heard the senator saying. first of all, has this ever happened before in the united states? has a sitting president been delighted by scenes of chaos and carnage? >> never ever. we never had a rebellion like this, an insurrection that was encouraged and maybe planned and executed by the president of the united states. we don't know that yet. this is a president that you and as i saw that speech he gave. he told the crowd to march up to the capitol. stop the counting of the ballots and the stolen election, which was not stolen and later on from the white house told them we love you. you're special. no one will say that trump did not authorize and possibly plan this. the other questions linger. was this an assassination attempt against the vice

president. against the speaker of the house. others in the line of succession to donald trump. were these people trying to steal those mahogany boxes. was this a coup attempt. why did law enforcement allow this terrorist mob to get into the capitol and were there ties between this effort and a foreign government? all those are big questions. we now have to refer them to the courts, to congress and to the next president of the united states, maybe a commission and one more thing, if i might add to this. 14th amendment of the constitution says if you're a member of congress, senator or representative and you have aided an insurrection, you can't sit in congress. as far as i'm concerned that may well defined josh hawley, ted cruz, others involved with this. congress will have to look very hard at these people and say are they allowed to continue in

congress under our constitution. >> michael, i want to draw on your expertise with history because we have talked about this and the war of 1812 and the british troops that were setting fire to the capitol in 1814. can this particular attack on wednesday, can that be compared to the actual coup that took place. it was the wilmington insurrection overthrew the first multiracial government a couple of days after the election. >> that's right. they committed a terrorist wave against black people in the area, against black citizens. stole their property and that could happen in 2021 in any town or city in this country. we have to guard against it. the other thing is that keeping that in mind as a terrible part of our history, we have got how many days now until joe biden

becomes president. >> 11. >> donald trump is there. he has control of nuclear weapons. he still has the power to declare martial law. he can do things with our military to get us in a war. it's crucial for all of us to keep an eye on what he is doing hour by hour between now and the time he is out of office whether he's removed through impeachment, the 25th amendment or on the 20th of january. >> what do you think the impact will be of wednesday's attack? who will history judge the harr har har harshest? the president, the republicans who push the false election claims? how do you see this playing out? >> i think whatever body looks into this, whether it's congress or the courts or the president or all of them, they're going to have to decide what was this thing we saw the other day. who was involved. were there members of congress who knew about it in advance? were there members of the trump

administration whose salaries you and i pay who were plotting against our united states government and our congress and our u.s. capitol. we do not yet know. those questions have to be asked. it could take years. >> let's take a quick look at one of your tweets today that you wrote the u.s. constitution says no person shall be a senator or representative in congress who shall have engaged in insurrectionrebellion. what's your read on how this applies today? >> well, that could be apply to not only cruz and hawley, it could apply to dozens of members of congress who abetted this. both in the senate and the house. that's in the constitution. that was passed because the people who added amendments to the constitution after the civil war knew there would be a possibility of people angry at what our government did after the confederacy had been defeated and might try the kind of attempt we saw on wednesday.

they were very farsighted. that's the part of our law and it's a sacred part of our law. we have to take it extremely seriously. some of those people may have to be expelled from congress. >> thank you so much for the history lesson and for also the look ahead. thank you very much. >> what a week. >> what a week. that's true. more charges today in storming of the capitol. authorities are sasking for the public's help. we'll explore of problem of qanon and the breeding ground of conspiracies. why finding a solution may be one of the most difficult challenges facing this country. plap (young woman) no, grandma! grandma!! (grandmother) excuse me! (young woman vo) some relationships get better with time. that's why i got a crosstrek. (avo) 97 percent of subaru vehicles sold in the last ten years are still on the road. love. it's what makes subaru, subaru.

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