next. good day to all of you. from msnbc world headquarters here in new york, welcome everyone with "weekends with alex witt." we have some breaking news once again as there are new calls to remove the president from office from a second republican senator and a majority of americans. house democrats will introduce an article of impeachment tomorrow. one of the house members who drafted it spoke to me last hour about why he thinks it's so critical. >> we absolutely have to israel

heal and unify as a nation. we cannot do that without first having justice, and that's why we need to remove donald trump. we also need to make sure he doesn't have his hand on a nuclear trigger. >> but some republican lawmakers certainly pushing back on removing the president from office. >> what the president should do is now finish the last ten days of his presidency. >> show no? >> the president touched hot stove on wednesday and sun likely to touch it again, and if that's the case, we -- every day we get closer to the last day of his presidency, we should be thinking more about the first day of the next presidency than the last day of his presidency. >> and new today, 67% of americans say the president deserves a great deal or good amount of blame for what happened, and 56% of americans think the president should be removed from office. today the president's former chief of staff says the events have left him stunned.

>> we'd never be here. i thought the president would be presidential. clearly that system has broken down and whether or not the president is different or the people vision him are different or both, i don't know what's going on inside the oval office. >> and there's a new covid scare for lawmakers on the hill. the capitol physician is alerting congressional members and staff who sheltered together during the riots that they could have been exposed to coronavirus. let's get more now on the latest. we have nbc's josh letterman covering the white house and vaughn hilliard with more on capitol hill security. hey, guys, welcome to you both. josh, we'll start with you. the house could start the impeachment process as early as monday but that's not only option. is there any indication that vice president pens would be willing to invoke the 25th amendment. >> well, that option is looking less and less likely, alex, for two reasons. for one, some of the cabinet members who would be most likely to join with a move by the vice president to invoke the 25th amendment, they have already

resigned, folks like elaine chou, the former transportation secretary and wife of senate republican leader mitch mcconnell, so some of the votes that you would probably need there, the vice president might not have anymore, but beyond, that multiple sources with knowledge of the vice president's deliberations now telling our nbc news team that the vice president is not inclined to go down that route at this time. now the rationale here is really interesting. you don't hear anyone in the vice president's orbit saying, well, that's because mike pence believes that president trump is fully fit for office and deserves to finish out his term. instead, what they are saying is that pence views it as impractical with so little time left to go down that road and instead views the preferred course of action as simply to hold our breath for lack of a better word for another week and a half or so, and that's why so many democrats and even now a few republicans like senator mat toomey are suggesting the best course of action would be for president trump to call it quits

himself. take a listen. >> well, i think the best way for our country, chuck, is for the president to resign and go away as soon as possible. i actually do believe that the president has disqualified himself. i don't think he's a viable candidate for office ever again. >> reporter: there is, of course, that impeachment option that you mentioned with the house set to take that up early this week, but, of course, once that were to go over to the senate if the house were actually going to vote to impeach the president, that's a lengthy process that according to senate majority leader mitch mcconnell would extend through after president-elect joe biden is inaugurated and that's why some democrats, including james clyburn, are now raising new suggestions that perhaps the house should impeach trump now and then wait a few months before sending that over to the senate, therefore, giving joe biden a chance to pursue his agenda in the initial months and then deal with that second part of the accountability for president trump afterwards. alex. >> that is an interesting prospect. that's the first time i've heard

that one. we'll see if that one is possible. appreciate it. let's go to the criminal investigation. fbi agents from every field office in this country are working to track down those rioters as the manhunt moves online. the fbi confirms it's reviewing tips from about rather one-time mayoral candidate from midland, is texas who posted a video brag begun patriots breaking into patriots' office. you can see that one right there. the republican lawmakers derrick evans has resigned after recording himself storming the cap toll, and a military veteran from new hampshire who has not been charged, jason riddell, says he has no regrets but never expected violence. >> i just couldn't -- you just -- they just broke into the building. i was just in shock. i couldn't believe it was happening. we don't need to be busting down windows and buildings. just do it the right way, like you don't need violence to get things done. >> reporter: so far nearly 20 people have been charged or

arrested with various federal offenses, and as capitol hill police assess what went wrong, they are also bracing for right wing extremists to return to washington for the inauguration and possibly before. how are officials planning for these possibilities? >> reporter: exactly. it's just becoming clear just over these last days, alex, even the last hours how serious of a nature this event capitol and those within the capitol experienced on wednesday. the u.s. attorney here in d.c. has charged more than a dozen individuals with federal crimes. again, these are serious charges that have been levied against these individuals and the metropolitan police chief said in the last 24 hours that they intend to investigate and hopefully charge each of those individuals who were involved in that insurrection, but, again, these are investigations that take time, that take witnesses,

that take evidence to be able to charge these individuals. richard barnett was that one arkansas man seen in those pictures there inside speaker pelosi's office. for example, he was charged with entering and remaining on restricted grounds, violent entry and theft of public property by the doj. there have been no seditious girsy charges levied against any individuals at this time, but, again, you mentioned that west virginia lawmaker. there were also off-duty police officers that appeared to be involved. just two police officers in virginia were put on leave here by their police department just yesterday. there are also investigations into potentially individuals with new york fire department that were involved in this insurrection. i want to let you hear from james klay burnings congressman james cloy burn here speaking about just the concern that was inside and just how close to potentially even massacre we experienced here on wednesday.

>> i have an unmarked office that you've got to know exactly where it is. it's where i spend most of my time doing my work. they didn't go where my name was, went where i usually hang out, so that to me indicates something untowards may have been going on. >> alex, i said it's become unclear just how dangerous of a situation was on hand because of new videos that are popping up on the internet from the very individuals who were involved in this insurrection. there is one video in which individuals were chanting hang mike pence. another one saying where's nancy, and when you're looking at the minute-by-minute timeline of the events that unfolded here at the capitol and pairing them up with some of the video, it's apparent just how close these individuals were to ultimately gaining access to the senate and house chambers when members were still on the ground in those

chambers, and we should also note that those individuals, those members of congress who were ultimately safely evacuated, they were led to hearing rooms which posed new concern here. the capitol physician here just in the last hour announcing that an individual specifically in one of the house hearing rooms where numerous members of congress were being held, an individual did in fact have covid. there were six republican members of congress who refused to wear masks at the time. we don't have any more information as exactly who the individual who did test positive for covid is and just how apparent and potentially to what extent this was even a super spreader event here on wednesday. alex. >> i mean, talk about adding insult to injury. my goodness. vaughn, thank you for that. joining me now is congresswoman jackie speier. welcome, congresswoman, great to see you. lots to get to.

let me do this in order. which is more likely, is it invoking the 25th amendment or impeachment that will be put forward tomorrow? >> impeachment will be put forward tomorrow. you know, mike pence just once again showed us that he is not a profile in courage, and i think that knowing that is real compelling us as members of the house to do our duty which is to impeach. >> do you make anything of the nbc news reporting that the president and vice president have not spoken with each other since wednesday, since all of this wednesday down, and that certainly would open the door to the possibility mike pence is contemplating bringing up the 25th amendment with members. cabinet? do you think that there's any possibility that that's happening? >> i don't think there's any possibility that that's happening because so many of these members, whether it's mike pence or josh hawley or ted

cruz, they are doing this for their own personal benefit. they are doing this because they want to curry favor with this group of anarchists that have somehow taken over the republican party, and i think history will report that this is one of the lowest days of our country's history in terms of recognizing the threat that exists domestically and the importance of protecting this democracy. >> indeed. there are, as you know, some republicans who have come against impeachment for a number of reasons, be they self-serving but also some saying it would do more than good but there is one house republican who supports, it adam kizinger, but early today he said he thinks it may not be the best route so let's take a listen to that. >> i'll vote the right way, you know, when whatever is put in front of me. i honestly don't think that

impeachment is the smart move because i think it victimize donald trump. i think it would be the right move if we had basically more than ten days left of the administration. >> what do you say to that, congresswoman? >> well, what is the right decision when the president of the united states insights insurrection. if we take this action it sets a precedent for what a president can do in the future is really demolish this democracy. what i say is we need to take action in the house. the senate can and fact try president trump subsequently recall for all of his transgressions, and i think with more time -- i actually support what mr. cliburn is suggesting. with my time to assess what he has actually done in office which i think we've just seen the tip of the iceberg. i think the criminality of this

presidency is still not completely known. >> it's extraordinary what jim clyburn has suggest there had and indeed that maybe the route that's followed after tomorrow in the house, but that said, before that would happen, right wing extremists are vowing to return to washington for joe biden's gnawing rampings certainly concerns about another proposed attack on the u.s. capitol as well. >> i was one of the members that was locked into the gallery, and there's a group of us that have been talking because it was a very traumatic experience, and when you see the hostility exhibited by many of those who were part of this effort of insurrection in the airports, taunting members as they identified them, yes, there's reason for us to be very concerned about security, and there's not the kind of confidence that we would expect

that there has been an assessment of the kind of protections that need to be in place to be sure that this transfer of power can happen in a peaceful manner and that we won't be subject to potential risk of loss of life again. >> yeah. you were in the gallery. were you at all in that conference room that the white house physician has expressed concern about, possible exposure to covid? >> i was in that conference reich. looked out and talked to the physician and said this is a super sprerd event and he said, well, if everyone wears a mask. so there's an ante room in that conference room, errand went into that ante room where there were fewer members to try and stave off that super spreader event, but, yeah, it's really a disgrace on so many levels. >> you know, there are so many questions remaining right now

about how law enforcement failed to see the evidence right in front of them of what was to come. take a listen to what the fbi and the d.c. chief of police said in the days following the riot. >> there was no indication that there was anything other than first amendment protected acist. >> there was no intelligence that suggested there would be a breach of the u.s. capitol. >> overall the assessment that we got repeatedly was no significant -- no indications of significant -- significant violent protests. >> no. our colleagues at nbc news have uncovered a number of postings on social media from the days before making little see crest their extremist ambitions. how were these missed by those who needed to see them the most? is this something that the house intelligence committee should look into? >> well, it's something that the house intelligence committee should look into, that it the administration committee should look into it, but frankly i am

one of those that believes that we need to have an independent commission, much like the 9/11 commission created to look at the issue of security and a separate commission to look at domestic terrorism. that is where we have the greatest risk in this country right now and all you had to do is go on to parler to see the potential risk associated to. see that they would make those statements is cya and nothing more than that. >> that commission you would like to form includes cyber security because in those terms you know there was a laptop from the capitol conference room. how concerned are you that rioters had not only within the building but also what they may have accessed via this laptop. >> that laptop and who knows what else has been taken that has been made public. when you watch the video of them

breaking the glass in the speaker's lobby, i mean, every time i see this i have this visceral reaction of pain and anguish that anyone would do this to this, you know, sacred symbol of democracy in this country, and -- and all of them, as far as i'm concerned, have shown a viciousness that needs to be basically subject to criminal prosecution. the. >> i understand and share those sympathies. unfortunately, we have polls that suggest that the vast majority of americans are also utterly dismayed by what happened in this country on wednesday. represent give jackie speier, thank you so much. it's very good to see you. >> great to see you. they stood by president trump through thick and thin but no longer, but does it really matter to him anymore? that's next. and before we go to break we are offering this footage from washington showing black bunting draped over the front entrance of the can toll police headquarters there in remembrance of officer brian

sicknick who died from injuries after being struck in the head by a fire extinguisher during the capitol skirmish. officer sicknick, just 42 years old. officer sicknick, just 42 years old. d sugar levels. boost glucose control products contain high quality protein and key nutrients to support immune health. try boost. smells more amazing than ever. flings now so their laundry isn't that the dog's towel? hey, me towel su towel. more gain scent plus oxi boost and febreze in every gain fling. at visionworks, and we want you to see yourself in your new glasses and think, "ooh!" but if you get home and your "ooh" is more of a "hmm..." you have 100 days to change your mind. that's the visionworks difference. visionworks. see the difference. so dad bought puffs plus lotion, blows. and rescued his nose.

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yeah. i will. you know, again, people say well why are you wasting your time? why are you doing this? trump has a week left. isn't it stupid? and the answer is no, it is not. we have a rule -- rules of law in this country, and you can not aid and abet an interrex and not be impeached. i think from a precedent point of view impeaching trump is the right thing to do. >> in just hours house speaker nancy pelosi lint dues a new article of impeachment against president trump and joining me now is jonathan lammier, msnbc political reporter and political

reporter. this is the second time the president is facing impeachment in a little over a year. how is he reacting to that? >> that's a pretty special thing. takes a special kind of president to be impeached twice and the support staring at that right now. he's not taking it well, be we can say. obviously he's having a hard time sharing his thoughts publicly now that he doesn't have a twitter account. shouldn't underestimate what a blow that is right now to him. in fact, someone around him on friday in the hours after twitter deactivated his account suggested he was taking that harder than his first impeachment. let's be clear. the president doesn't want to be impeached again. this time around with his fate in the senate less certain as we have heard more republicans denounce what happened last week and the president's role in inciting this increesurrection the heavily scripted video when he finally acknowledged joe biden's victory though he didn't

mention his name. that an attempt to stave off the talk of the impeachment and 12.. does seem like the 25th amendment talk has cooled but not the case for impeachment. >> you juxtapose what he said on thursday release the video saying the rioters were loved and special and then he comes out with thursday's video. which one was the more credible. is there any way to gauge that? >> well, that's always a little tricky, but in this case, according to our reporting, this one is easier to call. the wednesday is far more of the president's feelings than on thursday. he was emboldened and very supportive of those protesters who then, of course, became rioters when they went to the capitol. he was watching the tv coverage in his private dining area off the oval office. he was sort of excited to at least some degree that they were there in his name before things

truly got out of hand, and he had to be cajoled even to making that video and add libbed the remarks about how he said we love you, they are very special talking again to these insurrectionists. thursday, that video was made under the extraordinary amount of pressure from both white house aides and some of his few allies left on capitol hill. republicans who said, look, you need to try to take the temperature down. you need to condemn this violence or you do stand a real chance of being removed from office early, and the other piece of this is that he was individuals by the white house counsel that he needs to do this to try to minimize his legal exposure since he could face investigation and prosecution upon leaving office for potentially inciting that violence >> you know, you mentioned how republicans are fleeing from this president. that would include nick mulvaney, his former chief of staff, who spoke about the president on "meet the press" just today. let's take a listen to part of what he said. >> wednesday was a fundamental threat to the united states t.speaks to what makes us

america. it's an existential type of thing. it's not superficial. it's deep and it's real and it's different business why you saw so manyig nations this week and didn't see them over the course of the last years. wednesday changed everything. >> let moo ask you this. did wednesday real change minds overnight, or do you think that many have wanted to separate themselves from donald trump for a while and the capitol riot provided them an out, a way to do it? >> i think there's a lot at play here. certainly wednesday was a dark day in our nation's history but the same can be said about other moments of the trump presidency, and we know there was real outrage, not from democrats, republicans, helsinki, charlottesville, but for the most part republicans stayed with them, passed some kind of condemnation but their overall loyalty toe president trump didn't waiver. this one is different. for some they were look for a

way out but more than that it's because we're so close to the end and no doubt that the president's clout here is now diminished. nourishing certainly he has said he expects to play king-maker, to have an outsized role in the republican party going forward. he's still entertaining the notion of running again in 2024. that gets harder without a twitter account, i will say and not like his influence will totally disappear either >> is that why you've written there's no clear path for the republican party without donald trump. is that what you mean by that? >> i think there are two things at play here, and we're seeing a real bifurcation of where republican leadership is, the elected officials and the republican base, the voters, and let's be clear. it's too early to say how this is going to play out. he's still in office and will still be office for another week and a half. the real test is months, weeks from now when he's not dominating the daily headlines, when he's ex-president and right now you're seeing establishment what,ton. you're seating institutions, the republican leadership, the

republican-elected officials they, at least a lot of them, are showing a willingness to break from trump, but the base, the rank and file republicans, they still love him. he's still widely supported, and in fact at the rnc meeting down in florida this week, when president trump called in for a minute, he was met with enthusiastic cheers. our reporting to the people we talked to down there, people still almost to a person still really support the president. they hope he runs again in 2024. so this could change and things -- washington tends to turn the page pretty quickly when they are out of office, but this president could be an exception, but at least for now he's still absolutely has a firm grip on the rank and file base of republican voters. >> jonathan, we'll have to break away sooner than i anticipated. breaking new video to show but thank you so much. this has been obtained by nbc news and shows exactly what law enforcement was up against the very day that the angry mob stormed the capitol. i'll warp you right now that the video you're about to see is certainly graphic, certainly disturbing.

>> what we're seeing right there is rioters throwing flags and crutches at police and trying to hit them with absolutely anything they can find. all of this unfolding as the crowd is yelling and cheering in fact in support of these horrific actions. joining me now is contributor and analyst jim kavanaugh, retired atf special agent in charge and former hostage negotiator for the ate yes. jim, what do you make sense of here? what are we seeing? >> you're seeing this looks like officer sicknick who was killed, murdered there by the mob, who was in the middle of this crowd right at the doorway where he was beaten down. they tried to drag him out of

there, and you can see some people, know, beating on him and later walk away with probably his helmet. one put his helmet on, maybe drag his vest off, you know. don't quite see his rescue when the other officers got him because there's a lot of tear gas that comes out at the end of the video, but all the crowds yelling, you know, cursing, get that mf out of there. get him, get him, so the mobs all encouraging the guys are swinging the sticks and the flags. you don't quite see a fire extinguisher in the video but apparently that was there, too. >> we believe a fire extinguisher and a blow from the fire extinguisher is what killed the capitol police officer. we here at nbc news do not have confirmation that we're watching that particular, well, i guess you could call it a murder fer someone is hitting someone in

the head with a fire extinguisher. we're not seeing that specifically take place here but what we're seeing here is horrific enough. what does it tell you about the tactics and the motives, jim, of these people? >> well, you know, this is the radical right. i mean, this is the failure of the capitol police command to understand the radical right. there's extreme violent elements, extreme desires for murder and overthrowing the government and -- and if they had gotten in there and gotten their hands on a congressman or senator, they would have slit their throats and hung them, shot them, beat them to death, and -- and to, you know, not understand this -- this movement that's been with us for 50 years, you know, that's a failure. to capitol police and d.c. police are heros here. >> hero certainly for trying to do what they could, but how do you explain that there were not more of them, that more weren't

wearing riot gear when they first approached? the amount and size of representation of capitol police or anybody else that was on diet, the national guard not having a more profound footprint here, did they ever stand a chance and why did they not have more preparation and more presence there for protection? >> well, i would say the first failure looks like a failure of intelligence. we had the chief of staff metropolitan d.c. police saying they had no indication. there were thousand of references on open source social media before this and the president egging them on and thousands it of references to storming the capitol, taking back the country. >> how can the d.c. chief of police say that? we knew it. >> right. that's the first failure, so intelligence dos doesn't tell the chief, maybe the capitol police chief and the two sergeant-at-arms were not told, i don't know, but they didn't act on the intelligence, that's for sure. secondly, they underestimated

the radical right. did they think the radical right was going to stay down on the ellipse in front of the white house? apparently they did. the chief of the capitol police said they thought it would be a first amendment rally. no. the radical right was not gearing up for a first amendment rally. they were gearing up for just what we saw, and i would say of all the people that went, alex, three out of ten are these violent radical fanatics just like you're seeing right here. now, there's a larger group around them that support them and support trump but many probably did not engage in the violence even though they believe in crack pot conspiracy theories and they believe in the big lie the election was fraudulent, but the hard core radical right, the militiamen, the proud boys and hard core qanon, the 3%ers, the neo-nazis, they are all in the front there,

and they -- they could care less about trump. if trump told them to stop personally they would just push him aside or hang him, too. i'm not sure these republican lawmakers who are standing up for these guys really know what they are dealing with because they want to -- they want to hang mike pence. >> yeah, we heard that. do you think that the capitol hill police, d.c. metro police potentially national guard, any sort of federal officials, don't they all need to be present a week from now because we know and we're public sizing the fact there's plenty of evidence online that there's another storming of the capitol that some would like to have next sunday. there's also the inauguration on the 20th. will they be properly prepared? what's that going to look like in d.c. around the government properties over the next ten days? >> yeah, it's going to be extremely strong security. i don't think we'll have to worry about anything like this.

nor do i think we'll get the same kind of response from the radical right in the next couple of weeks, in my view. the arrests that are taking place now across the country are going to put some damper on them. the seven out of ten like i talked about, they won't be back. also we don't have the president calling them to come back. so i -- i'm not seeing this kind of activity inauguration day, and plus inaugurations are a national special security event, any inauguration, so security is extreme. it's going to be even more extreme. i think the threat moving forward is still here from the radical right, but it won't be exactly like this. it will be bombs. it will be state legislatures. it's going to be maybe rifle attacks. it's going to be all types of other maneuvers. >> yeah. >> they are not going to walk in. 3 hunt radical right, for example, are not going to walk into a phalanx of 5,000 prepared

tactical police. >> right. >> they are not that fanatical. >> okay. >> so i think we're fighting the last war when we think it's going to be the same and that took a month or more to oregon with the president egging them on. >> we may be fighting a war, jim, but i would venture to guess it's not the last battle in doing so. jim, thank you so much. hands tied. why it is so hard for the fbi to track and cut off acts of domestic terrorism and the one thing that might help. of domestic terrorism and the one thing that might help. dream sequence ending no! in three, no! two, keep packing! one. an herbal stress reliever ashwagandha, that helps you turn the stressed life... into your best life. stress less and live more. with stressballs.

okay, everyone. we're giving you right now a very somber look at part of the funeral procession for officer ethnic there on capitol hill. you'll see vaughn hillyard, and

you see many of his colleagues and those will also be from the d.c. police, and they are there lining the hill where the funeral procession will take place. let's take a listen to this. all right. i guess we don't have sound from this. we're going to get more sound from this and bring that to you, again. it's extremely tragic, he having died as a result of a fire extinguisher blow to his head. we were talking about that with jim cavanaugh before the commercial break. >> this is a fail you're legislation. the fbi is not permitted to look hand monitor at the very same things that you and i can sit at home and look at at twitter and on parler. here's the problem. we don't have a domestic terrorism law in the united states. if you switched this over and changed the religion of these folks from christianity to islam and changed their skin color

from white to brown, international law -- international terrorism laws would have kicked in. >> the former fbi assistant director explains what makes it difficult for the fbi to intercept acts of domestic terror and interdict groups like some that appears to have been involved in planting capitol siege. joining me now is clint watts, distinguished research fellow as the foreign policy research institute and msnbc security analyst. also carmen best, retired seattle police chief and msnbc analyst. big welcome to you both. i have to say the interview i did with frank yesterday is absolutely stunning, the fact that we don't have laws on the books that allows the fbi rather to pursue certain facets of domestic terrorism, and i want to go to you first, clifnlt you are a former u.s. army infantry man, former fbi agent. you've done extensive work on counterterrorism and a bit earlier you tweeted this.

short version, domestic terrorist vote, international terrorists don't. are you saying, clint, that this country needs to address the politics of white supremacists and militia groups? >> absolutely, alex. i actually testified to the senate homeland affairs committee in 2019 and it was about exactly this topic. you might remember the massacre that happened at the walmart in el paso, texas. >> sure. >> back during that time frame, and the issue was if you are in the fbi, state and local law enforcement entering federal agencies you use two different rule books. if it's international you use the international guidelines and you rely on the state department to designation foreign terrorists and foreign terrorist organizations which gives you additional vifgt powers you would not normally have on strictly criminal cases. if it's someone inside the united states, you're relying on u.s. criminal code, and that u.s. criminal code is very much geared around investigating crimes that have already happened such as what we've seen at at capitol here this week, so

it's very hard to preempt this because there's not a desig national around it. when i went to that senate hearing and we were testifying about this, we spoke about how the far right is the predominant source of violence and terrorism. that was in 2019 so this shouldn't come as a surprise what we saw this week. >> and here's why it should also not come as a surprise. we're looking at videos, the assault on our capitol. here's what one user posted to youtube. everyone take a look at this. >> we have heard a lot of speeches, so not sure if we'll actually get over there to hear them but we're hoping to storm this capitol. >> right there. we're hoping to storm this capitol, and we have, you know, seen reports of more attacks being planned. how could law enforcement not retook the this right away, clint? >> yeah. we have watched this -- i have a team of research. we watched for many weeks.

we knew this. probably 96 hours out we doubled down on our monitoring of group. it was apparent there was going to be a large gathering there. you do watch what they were saying. they said they were going to storm the capitol. this was not surprising at all. the other question we should be asking is what did we think their intentions are when they are bringing weapons, when they are laying down molotov cocktails or bombs, when they are wearing kevlar helmets and body armor, what -- what did we think was going to happen? they are not showing up there to peacefully protest when they are in full combat gear. >> carmen, you ran the seattle police force during the summer protests. the on the same day as the d.c. capitol siege, let's check out a scene of what happened on your state capitol in olimpia. why isn't local law enforcement able to check these groups?

>> well, alex, first, thanks for having me and i want to just say i want to pay homage to the defendant officer sicknick that was so tragic. listen, it's inexcusable what has happened and we all know, as our guests are saying, that you know, that there is -- there needs to be more coordination. there needs to be laws around domestic terrorism, and, in fact, a lot of local law enforcement does have a lot of information. there needs to be more coordination with the federal partners about what the antics and what the mission of these groups is because, you know, for example, the militia, the same militia that had the plans to kidnap and harm the michigan governor is the same militia that timothy mcveigh belonged to, so over 25 years ago, we went after the individual, but they need to go after the entire conspiracy and coordinated group and cut off the head of the snake, and that's what needs to

happen, and that coordination can happen. local law enforcement come across these people every day. there's a joint terrorism task force. there are fusion centers and it's inexcusable to say we don't have the intelligence or ability to reach further and investigate further on these cases, so while we do need the laws, we also need to take a proactive stance and go after the head of the snake and cut it off at the head. it makes no sense that our federal partners continue to go after the individual rather than the whole conspiracy. these acts are coordinated. they are happening, you know. they don't happen with happenstance. they are doing reconnaissance and coming prepared. they have a mission and a plan in place. >> can i ask you with your experience as a chief of police what went through your mind when you saw police officers from d.c. taking selfies with insurrectionists, how they invaded the place, livestreaming and not the least bit concerned

of being confronted and there are those that suggest there's a conspiracy theory, but could there have been an inside job aspect to this? >> well, possibly. i mean, i -- i real thought about this a lot. as i was watching events unfold my main thought is where the heck are the cops you? know, 15 minutes, 30 minutes an hour, almost two hours before i saw more reinforcements coming in. either there were people who were sympathetic to the rioters and the insurrection, or there was an order from somewhere within to not -- to stand down and to not -- to not act. there's no way with all of the information on social media and as you showed in your previous clip a person directly saying we're planning to storm the building that people didn't know. so, you know, i think that it

was an inexcusable and reprehensible and, you know, there needs to be some sort of investigation as to who knew what went and why there wasn't more preparation. >> clint, t minus ten days and extremist groups are planning what they are calling the million militia march in d.c. the language, i'm not going to repeat that. far-fetched, but this threat has always been part of the american story, clint. has this president, president trump, has he reawakened a sleeping giant? should he be the one to try to calm things down? does he even have the power to do that? >> alex, he absolutely has the power to do that. i think what's important to remember is these groups were disparate and disaggregated until president trump was elected president. to be clear, you know, jan berger, one of my colleagues, wrote an excellent article about this a couple years ago and said what unifies all of these disparate groups is the president. they have all showed up in his

banner meaning white supremacists, anti-government groups, anarchist groups even to a degree. this has all colesd around the president so if he is to rebuke theme proactively, not reactively whenever it starts to hurt his popularity or his numbers or he's being admonished it will dampen the effects of this. what i would say is i'm not as worried about the capitol on inauguration day. i think we'll have the right security and protections there. i'm worried about state capitols around the country, these places with less resources. i'm worried about domestic terrorist attacks that are more acute in and around inauguration day and through the rest of the summer. one thing that we haven't seen yet and that i am very worried about is domestic terrorist attacks in the coming years, and part of that is because there's not a large number of targets available at the moment. this bass one such example but covid-19 has made it for large gatherings to be difficult. this will change as the year goes on so i think we really need to look forward.

need give the fbi, state and local law enforcement what they need to really go after this. >> clint watts and carmen best, thank you both for your time and particularly you, carmen, leaving us with your duly noted thoughts offering your sadness for officer brian sicknick's death. msnbc's vaughn hillyard is there. what are you seeing? it looks pretty somber. >> reporter: just in the last hour it became evident as we were outside of the u.s. capitol here on third street between constitution avenue and independence avenue. there was no release or the press were not made aware of this moment. it was just this litany of police vehicles here that you can see here just outside of the u.s. capitol ahead of what is going to be a procession for officer brian -- alex, sorry, i

think we're getting here in position. this is all kind of coming to us here. it was officer brian sicknick, the capitol police officer who passed away on wednesday. you can see not only capitol police but also you see metropolitan police department. we're told essentially here ove. essentially in the last hour, they put out a call to presently off duty officers for the processions. we've been told that brian sicknick's remains will be making their way from the medical examiner's office to the funeral home here. again, this is five days after officer sicknick lost his life at the united states capitol. you can see above the u.s. capitol, you can see that the flags are now at half-staff here. alex, the procession will be, again, bringing his remains here. i'm looking down the road here as we're trying to get the best sight of what we can see here.

to give you an idea where behind where our photographer is shooting now, you look down the national mall towards washington monument, twarld the lincoln memorial and, of course, now looking straight on to the u.s. capitol. again, we're trying to confirm exactly what happened to officer sickknick. this is a man a part of the u.s. capitol police force dating back to 2008. he's a veteran of the air national guard. this was an individual who had multiple federal deployments. again, alex, i think the tough take away here for everybody is how did this gentleman ultimately lose his life after serving for more than 12 years here in the u.s. capitol police force. h this is tough. everybody is grappling with the video.

i stood outside on the west lawn of the capitol as we watched essentially the u.s. capitol be overtaken. some of the videos a lot of them taken by these interactionists themselves coming to light here. hopefully it will provide more clarity on how officer sicknick lost his life and what lead to the injuries and the others left in the dangerous situation as they were clearly outmanned and left to do their best that they could to protect not only the members of congress, the vice president of the united states, the soon-to-be vice president kamala harris. leader mcconnell, speaker pelosi, umm, this is a tough day. i know i was talking with some staffers here this morning who said they're going through the trauma and not only did congressional sta

congressional staffers face this but the police officers who did their best to defend. >> you make the point there those are off duty. that's in part because those on duty now sharing sympathies over the loss of life, they are on the job because the capitol has been under assault this week. joining me now is tim ryan. he oversees capitol police on the committee. how heartbreaking to think of the officer who spent his life protecting you when you would go to work. he loses his life on the steps of or somewhere in the building that he had sworn to protect. >> yeah. it's completely heartbreaking. not only protecting us as members of congress but how many school groups that come from downtown ohio and towns across

the united states. to see their government in action. he was there to protect them, as well. all the visitors who come from around the globe that at one point looked to america for an ideal on government. he was there every day protecting that. i department see the entire video but it looked like he was -- that the president walked out inaugurated and the president-elect walked out to get inaugurated with the president and the vice president. that's the altar of our democracy. you know, the democratic church, the united states church governmental church, that's the altar. and that's where -- i think we have to say he was murdered. he didn't pass away.

he was murdered in cold blood by this mob. coming on the heels -- and i know we talked about this in the campaign, coming on the heels of the attack me and so many others -- or defunding -- used as a political -- of the electorate during the elections. see the police officer murdered in cold blood is the ultimate -- >> yeah. >> and it's super sad. >> a painful irony, indeed. you mentioned that video. i'm going to ask why director -- if he wants to put it up, receive. roll it again. the video you're referencing about the violent officers and what they faced at the entrance.

even the new video. put that up. the officer that was -- that's the one where he's banged up the steps. that one right there. there's an officer being crushed right there by the crowd. and that new video. i want to point out, congressman, we're not sure at nbc news, while we have the new video, we're not sure we're looking at the the mob that assaulted officer sicknick after which he lost his life. we don't know for sure. i want to to be clear about that. there's no doubt there was an insane situation. why do you think this was not anticipated given the number of election officials that were inside that building and the protrump rally that park police approved, they had proven for 30,000 people. why was there not more ready to receive any potential problem at the capitol? >> epic failure.

you know, kudos to the heros. those men and women and the rank and file members who were in that -- even if the intelligence said it's going to be whatever those public statements we had them. >> right. january 6 is going to be a hell of a day. it's going to be wild. >> yeah. >> pass on it in december and he

had -- [ inaudible ] that morning and then -- we could have been prepared with thousands and thousands and thousands of national guard, the army, if needed. we knew it was going to be tough but we were all assured it was under control. and it was anything but under control. >> kmcongressman tim ryan, you will be back as you're well aware, my friend. i appreciate it. >> thanks, alex. for all of you, mentioned the flag is being flown at half-staff at the capitol. you can see it being flown half-staff, as well, at the white house in honor of the fallen capitol hill police officer brian sicknick. hill poe officer brian sicknick

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