inauguration, the only way out is through. and i think that that is where we certainly are here as we kareen toward an inauguration concerned about more violence. thank you for getting up "way too early" with us on this wednesday morning. we very much appreciate it. don't go anywhere, "morning joe" starts right now. it doesn't really feel like we're being impeached. the country is doing better than ever before. we did nothing wrong. we did nothing wrong. and we have tremendous support in the republican party like we've never had before. nobody has ever had this kind of support. >> that was president trump gloating about republican support the first time he was impeached. he's about to be impeached again, and that republican support is showing major signs of slipping this morning. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is wednesday, january 13th.

along with joe, willie and me, we have white house reporter for the associated press, jonathan la mere. co-founder and ceo of axios jim vandehei and conservative lawyer, co-founder of the lincoln project and contributing columnist to "the washington post," george conway joins us this morning. well, a lot to get to, joe. i think the first we should start with is that donald trump is expected to become the first u.s. president to be impeached twice after vice president mike pence informed at this point the house speaker nancy pelosi that he would not go forward with the 25th amendment to remove trump from office. in a letter to speaker pelosi just hours before the house passed a resolution urging pence to invoke the 25th, the vice president wrote that such action is not in the best interest of our nation and would set a, quote, terrible precedent. i question his oath of office at

this point, but that is what he did. the house convenes at 9:00 a.m. debate on the impeachment resolution is set for 12:30. the vote will be around 3:00 p.m. today. just one house republican, illinois adam kinzinger voted in support of the vice president invoking the 25th amendment, however, there are at least five republicans, including kinzinger who have come out in support of today's vote to impeach president trump. liz cheney, the number three republican in the house, along with fred upton, john catko and jay may herrera will all vote to impeach the president. house republican leaders do not plan to encourage republican members to vote against impeachment. a change from the first impeachment of the president. the white house believes that by the time the house votes this afternoon, there will be two dozen republicans who will ultimately come out in support

of impeaching trump. on the senate side, "the new york times" is reporting that majority leader mitch mcconnell has told associates that he believes president trump committed impeachable offenses. people familiar with his thinking tell the times that mcconnell is pleased that democrats are moving to impeach trump, believing that it will make it easier to finally purge him from the party. "the new york times" jonathan martin, who co-authored that report tweeted yesterday that a senate republican aide said he thinks there were about 20 republicans, give or take, who are open to a conviction and that was before publishing the piece on mitch mcconnell. sources tell axios that there's a better than 50/50 chance that mcconnell himself will vote to convict trump in an impeachment trial. a top republican close to mcconnell said, quote, the senate institutional loyalists

are fomenting a counterrevolution to donald trump. >> george conway, a lot to digest there. as a former republican, a conservative, liz cheney, mitch mcconnell, many others considering voting to impeach donald trump while donald trump goes to alamo, texas, just to make sure that nothing is lost on his supporters, what he thinks they should be doing in these final days of this administration. and refuses to accept any responsibility for the insurrection against the united states government that he inspired last week. where are we right now with donald trump in these final days? >> it reminds me a lot, frankly, of august 1974, after the supreme court ordered nixon to produce the tapes and after the smoking gun tape came out.

i mean, he's -- his support is collapsing. the way we saw nixon's support collapse in a matter of days back then. and i think, you know, there's going to be -- no matter whether or not he gets removed before his term of office ends or not, he's leaving in complete disgrace, as nixon did. but there's going to be a big difference. nixon -- i don't know if you remember, i mean, you were the same age as i, i remember watching what happened when nixon left, august 9, 1974, and watching all morning. and you saw some contrition. you saw some regret. you saw some sadness and sorrow for a man who actually did unlike donald trump love his country and want to do right by the country even though he made some serious mistakes and broke some major laws. you don't see that with trump. and one of the things you're not

going to see is any sympathy for donald trump the way there was some sympathy for nixon when he left washington as a broken man. this man, donald trump, because he's a psychopath, a man who can gloat and watch in glee as the capitol was ransacked and attacked and as people's lives were threatened, this psychopath is never going to have -- he's going to be pariah for the rest of his life. and there may be some republicans who still support him now, but those republicans are the republicans, if you can call them that or call them conservatives at all, who seek some kind of an authoritarian leader who is all powerful and he's leaving in absolute weakness. he can't even tweet at us this morning. >> can't tweet at us. can't upload a youtube video. can do very little. can't even send emails out to his supporters, willie. george is right. i do remember nixon august,

1974, as a child. but i understood actually more about it as i grew older and i also understood that when the supreme court ruled 9-0, that he had to turn over the tapes, nixon understood immediately that we lived in a constitutional system of checks and balances. he knew where this was going. and he knew that it was in the best interest of the country to resign. that's something obviously that donald trump has never been interested in and he never will be interested in. what is in the best interest of this country? that's why ben sasse and others who are reporting that he was gleefully watching the riots take place at the united states capitol. gleefully cheering on the insurrection. gleefully cheering on the beating and the overrunning of capitol police officers because it served his purpose. because he thought he was stupid

enough to believe, stupid enough to believe that this was going to somehow stop the counting of the electoral votes and stop the united states congress from doing its constitutional duty. it shows you just how stupid this man really is. >> and in august of '74, when those republican senators went to the white house and told president nixon it was time to go, he acknowledged that, as you say. and he knew it was time to go. and he did go. as george says there is no contrition here. we saw it again yesterday for the first time he had the opportunity in a front of a group of cameras on his way down to texas getting on air force one to turn down the temperature and speak to his voters, he offered no contrition whatsoever. he said my speech before that rally was totally appropriate. he called this a witch hunt again. the election that was fairly decided for joe biden, a witch hunt somehow. and said it's getting very dangerous. again, another signal to the people who rushed the capitol and may have plans for the

inauguration. jim vandehei, the question of republicans and the question of mitch mcconnell, we're hearing reports there may be 20 people as jonathan martin said are open for voting conviction in the senate, 20 republicans. mitch mcconnell doesn't leak a lot. we heard a lot of his office yesterday through "the new york times" and other sources says he believes the house is doing the right thing, going after impeachment for the president of the united states. maybe that gives republicans some cover here. do you think that when impeachment passes through the house today, and it will later, there's a chance that still that senate, led by republicans, will vote to convict? >> there's a hell of a bigger chance today than there was 24 hours ago. last night mcconnell's people were telling mike allen that there's a better than 50/50 chance that mcconnell himself would vote to convict and remove trump from office, remove him from politics forever more. it would be one of the most unprecedented votes, one of the

most stunning votes really in the history of our republic. and he doesn't do things by accident. he is sending a signal. liz cheney is sending a signal that you have one chance, one chance to be able to take a vote quickly and remove trump from politics and the party forever. and if you don't, you're betting that it's going to be his own undoing that would unfold over time. and i think mitch mcconnell understands the republican base. it's different than elected republican, especially in leadership. the base for the most part, based on the polling we're seeing so far and a lot of the email that we're getting and you're getting, a lot of those people are still with donald trump. and so, mitch mcconnell wants people to know. and it started not yesterday, it started when his wife left the cabinet. he was part of that. then it escalated with the "times" story and culminated last night mike what they told. and this will be one of the most

fascinating, consequential weeks in american politics in american history. >> wow. i agree. what willie was talking about, here is president trump yesterday on route to the border town of alamo, texas, expressing no regret for his comments one week ago ahead of the violent insurrection at the u.s. capitol. >> what is your role in what happened at the capitol? what is your personal responsibility? >> so, if you read my speech, and many people have done it and i've seen it both in the papers and in the media on television, it's been analyzed and people thought that what i said was totally appropriate. everybody to the t thought it was totally appropriate. the impeachment hoax is the most vicious witch hunt in the history of our country and is causing tremendous anger and division and pain, far greater than most people will ever understand. which is very dangerous for the

usa, especially at this very tender time. >> yeah. that witch hunt that has expanded out, mika now. you have the editorial page of the "wall street journal" that carried the president's water for much of the past four years engaged in anti-anti-trumpism at an olympian level, actually dismissed donald trump and everything regarding russia and their interference in american democracy and yet even "the wall street journal" editorial page is saying that donald trump committed impeachable offenses. mitch mcconnell said, donald trump has committed impeachable offenses. liz cheney, liz cheney is saying donald trump committed impeachable offenses. he lived. i mean, this is what happens to a liberal democrat who spends his entire life contributing to

hillary clinton and -- i mean you name it. you go down the list. eliot spitzer, anthony wiener. you go down the list. this is what happens when he thinks he can define what conservative is and what a rhino is. you know, it's just shocking to me. i thought republicans would figure this out four and a half years ago. it actually took him committing an insurrection against the united states government to figure it out. >> look, what's staggering to me is that you have to explain all that. i mean there is no other place in america, not in a state government, not in a local government, not in any business and god forbid this was a democrat where the person wouldn't be out 24 hours later, 25th. jonathan la mere, what is going on in the white house? how is it he is still president after assaulting our democracy? >> mika, this is an extraordinary moment in our history. and it's a president who is largely alone.

you heard him yesterday played the chip there. he showed no remorse for what happened last week at the capitol. remember, of course, he had to be really convinced, con joeled to make a video statement last week in which he finally condemned the violence. remember, on wednesday itself, he had no words of anger, no words to his supporters to stop. even as his own vice president's life was in danger. it was only when the white house counsel told him you could be legally vulnerable here that he was finally convinced to go out and put a statement out only to that night ask aides if he should be regretting it, if that was a mistake because it would anger his base. there's real alarm here, even this very small circle of aides that remain around the president about what this means. joe likes to say he's in favor of deathbed conversions. there's a limit to how much credit mitch mcconnell should be getting by turning on trump in the 11th hour. by doing so, signaling he is happy with the democrat's

impeachment effort is a big deal and can provide a lot of cover for fellow republican. same with liz cheney. mcconnell didn't suggest yet he would be willing to vote for removal from office. but even if it's being entertained that does change the calculus among the white house. at first they were nervous about the 25th amendment push, the fact that trump and pence had not spoken in days. pence telling close aides he had never been more betrayed by the president's behavior. that's why he invited pence to the oval office to repair that relationship to a degree. the vice president yesterday say he wouldn't be in favor of the 25th amendment. but now there's not an effort yet from republicans. that's what they're going to do today from the white house to try to reach out to republicans to have that same sort of effort, hey, don't abandon our guy. some of it is a threat as a final point. what has been so striking here is last couple days is the

silence from the president. he would keep republicans in line with his twitter account. there's no twitter account. he's not able to do that. but they are working the phones here with this threat. they're saying that president trump is very popular among republicans he and they will remember your vote now. you vote to impeach or remove this president, there will be -- you'll face their wrath down the road. how much influence do we believe this president will have once he's out of office? >> well, it really depends. i guess he'll have some influence with criminal defense attorneys because he's going to be shopping for a lot of criminal defense attorneys. he may actually have to spend some money and get real attorneys this time because he's in trouble. but as far as deathbed conversions go, make no mistake friends, we're seven days away from donald trump actually leaving the white house, not having access to the nuclear codes, not having the ability to cause serious harm in this country. >> that's right.

>> so that hem you're seeing in the background, just as i am, yes, we're open for deathbed conversions in the seven days to go. any republican that steps forward and actually votes to impeach this president and remove him from office, i think many people would agree we are entering into, yes, the final hours of this presidency, but mika, also, perhaps the most dangerous time of this presidency. >> what's with the hedging? what's with the hedging on the criminal assault on our capitol? five people dead. the president, we know, everyone says this is such unprecedented time. the president is paralyzed. the president loved it. he's a sick, unself aware criminal. we all know that. turn that page. the people around him, what's with the hedging? i don't get it. a lot can happen in seven days. >> yep. >> the acting u.s. attorney for washington, d.c., michael sherwin announced yesterday that his office is already

investigating more than 170 people who were at the capitol siege last week. and looking to charge those who committed the most heinous crimes incited by the president, by the way, with sedition. >> we have already opened 170, more than 170 subject files, meaning these individuals have been identified as potential persons that committed crimes on the capitol grounds inside and outside. so of those 170 cases that have already been opened and i anticipate that's going to grow to the hundreds in the next coming weeks we already charged over 70 case. just yesterday our office organized a strike force of very senior national security prosecutors and public corruption prosecutors. their only marching orders from me are to build seditious and conspiracy charges related to the most heinous acts that occurred in the capitol. >> you know, sherwin added that other strike focuses are going to focus on assaults against law enforcement and the members of the media, the range of criminal conduct.

he said runs from simple trespass to felony murder. george conway, heard people complaining that wray wasn't there. i guess i'm just a half glass full guy because i heard him talking about sedition. i heard him talking about people being thrown in jail for 20 years. i think if they broke into the capitol, i think they should -- if they can obviously prove that case, i think the government should do everything they could to put them away for 20 years at least. what was your take on the acting u.s. attorney's press conference and the actions of the fbi and the justice department? >> i initially had the same reaction as you in terms of why is it just the acting united states attorney in the district of columbia, not the head of the criminal division or the acting attorney general. and you know, the fact that it was the acting u.s. attorney in d.c. is just an example of the

disorder and the chaos in the trump administration. that said, i think he did a terrific job in explaining the process and explaining the variety of crimes and the complexity involved and why it is that some people are being charged with relatively minor things just to get them arrested and just to get them in custody. but will be charged later with more serious things. and again, explaining the pan plea of a wide variety of crimes that were committed here from simple vandalism to theft of mail, theft of electronic devices, to jeopardizing national security information, to assault and murder. so, i thought he did a terrific job. >> so, george, i've heard some legal scholars talk about the problem of maybe don jr., rudy giuliani, the president being charged with inciting this riot. being part of a conspiracy for

sedition. but you listen to their words. specifically you listen to rudy giuliani talking about combat justice. you listen to don jr. saying we're coming to get you. like literally an hour before the mob went up and tried to kill nancy pelosi and tried to kill mike pence and we're finding out this morning they were only minutes away from being able to kill members of the united states congress. how is that language not inciting violence? how could that be protected political speech when they're literally fomenting violence against members of the united states congress? >> well, i don't think it was. but again, you know, as you know as a lawyer, there are subjective and objective aspects of proving a case like that. you have to show objectively

that the words were -- you talked about over the last couple days but for causation but also aspect of causation of foreseeability. are these reasonably foreseeable to cause this kind of mayhem and disruption. and violence. and i think it is. as you have been pointing out it is. and there's also a subjective aspect of it. what did these people believe when they uttered these words. and i think to fully understand that is going to require a total and complete contextualization of all the facts, not just what we heard from the speeches and the ellipse, but what conversations did all of these people have before? what did they read on social media or hear about? the white house apparently, at least the political director, was involved in the events leading up to the rally and organizing the rally or at least the presentation of the rally.

and so was trump apparently. what did they understand this to be? and again, it's not just what happened on january 6th. it's the entire course of conduct that fomented this violence. and trump, you know, talked about be there on january 6th. it's going to be wild. what did he mean by that? well, that's the issue. >> george, there's also -- we can talk all the different criminal acts that president trump may or may not have participated in, some are quite clear from tapes with bob woodward to shaking down the georgia secretary of state on a telephone call. >> obstructing the mueller report. >> we saw play out. everything. go on. we know. that's all there. but i want to ask you about mike pence. we know trump's personality. we know what he does with people. could he be extorting the vice president? why in the world would the vice president at this point allow this man to stay in office and

not take every step that he took in his oath to protect this country and to protect our constitution? why wouldn't he act? >> it's absolutely mystifying to me. if michael pence thinks he's going to be president any other way than the 25th amendment or impeachment he is smoking something. he needs to do just -- he needed to do the right thing here. this man is completely unfit to hold any form of public office. he's unfit to be dogcatcher. he's destructive. he's now in a mode where he's trying to seek revenge. what we have seen this week and the threat -- the effective threat we saw yesterday when he said, oh, basically if you impeach me, people are going to be really upset. he's basically saying that, oh, don't impeach me for fomenting violence because that would foment violence. who is he to say that? what he's been doing is essentially like, it's like the last days of world war ii.

it's like the decree when albert spear was told to go out and destroy all the bridges. this is the threat he's making to us yesterday. it's the threat he made implicitly in texas by saying that we -- this is a very tender time. that, gee, that's a really nice country you have there. be too bad if something happened to it. so i don't understand. >> yeah, republicans are watching all this, jim. and they're saying, this guy has got to go. we've got to be rid of him. we don't want him as part of our party. we certainly don't want him the head of our party. some republicans. so they have a couple ways of going about that. they can vote to convict after impeachment passes through the house or as you say can watch him fade away. but this is not a man who is likely to fade away. especially if he is still eligible to serve another term to run again in 2024. so, how is this calculus playing out at the highest reaching at mitch mcconnell's office, liz cheney and among rank and file

republicans who may not say it publicly but privately would love to see donald trump gone for good. >> there's a massive split. listen, even in the house you have liz cheney saying she's going to vote for impeachment, i would be surprised if you had more than 15 or 20 house republicans who voted for impeachment. so the vast majority are still very supportive of donald trump. i think the majority of the senate is still very supportive of donald trump. and the reason is they're hearing from their voters and they think 70, 80, 85% of republicans are still with donald trump. and i'm with you. i've always been in the camp he's not going to fade away. there is no way that somebody who loves being in the limelight and loves power as much as him goes away. and if he has the ability to run again, he'll at least say he's going to run again. and i think that's the mitch mcconnell calculation. if you look down the road, if you're mitch mcconnell and trying to think about how do you save the party if you believe as he does and many do that trump would be a catastrophe in 2024 for them, you take him out now.

that's the only reason, that and believing what he did in fomenting an insurrection is real, that's the reason he's doing this. he knows it's not the popular thing to do with the base. he knows it's going to put a lot of republicans in a very tough spot, but playing the long game, that is the move that he thinks that you have to make. and i think it's a real open question about how many republicans writ large turn against donald trump. we're in the field with a poll and i will not be surprised if way more people than we think are supportive of trump, don't blame trump, blame other forces, other factors. and i think that is the reality that these republicans are operating in. even look at last night what was happening in the u.s. capitol. they tried to put in a metal detector so people couldn't bring guns into a chamber and you had republicans in revolt. you had a republican freshman have to go up to the capitol police and apologize for his republican colleagues, pardon my language for being ass holes. that's the language that he used

and because they wouldn't go through these simple procedures. there's a massive divide in the party. and i wish this was going to burn off soon. unfortunately i think from you heard from the fbi earlier, these reports, i think this is going to go on for some time. that is the jam republicans are in. to be honest, it's a jam, as americans, are vandehei, you a been on the hill, on and off the hill for 25, 26, 27 years. nobody ever thought about bringing a loaded gun on to the house floor until -- well, just the last couple weeks. you've had republicans bragging about bringing loaded guns on the house floor. you've had other members of the republican caucus believing in conspiracy theories and spreading conspiracy theories that democrats -- democratic leaders are cannibals and that there is a global conspiracy to

kidnap children and have a pedophile ring. and these are the people who are screaming and yelling that they shouldn't actually be scanned for having guns. there was actually a house member, i saw the clip this morning -- >> just looking for it. >> just staggering. there's actually a house member who was screaming about the real atrocity, wasn't the mob, wasn't the overthrowing, the attempt to overthrow the federal government, the real atrocity was that they couldn't bring loaded guns on to the house floor. these people -- >> new normal? >> are crazy. these people are out of their mind. these people are actually the very reason why they're having to put those metal detectors up going into the house, jim, because you have unhinged people who want to bring loaded guns to the house floor and who believe in wild conspiracy theories.

let's also just say right now, well over 100 of them vote to overturn a democratic election. >> yeah. and you had to impose -- yesterday they had to impose a new rule that you're going to get fined if you don't wear your mask on the house floor. like simple things that virtually every scientist in the world says that you should do for the good of your people. you have people refusing to do. there was a fight last night via text among the house republican freshman that we reported about where there's an argument about qanon and how whacky it is. and qanon is like this weird conspiracy where there's a satanic deep state trying to take out the republicans and take out trump. and yet elected people who believe this stuff. so that toxicity. that's the thing that worries me is that i just think this lingers for a long time. there's so many people. i probably got 300 emails over the weekend of which 30% were from trump supporters.

some very thoughtful notes. but at the end, they're like, i think the election was a fraud. i think trump got screwed. i think that's where most of the republican party is. that's how they've been programmed by trump and trump media organs to think. and it doesn't go away. i think we sometimes look at this like a political movement. and i think you're better off studying things like scientology where things become like a religion to people where when you have that type of fer vennsy, people believe. it's going to take a long time for this to burn out. even if mitch mcconnell now has a profile in courage after sitting with donald trump for four years, that doesn't mean that the rest of the party is. the rest of the party has been much more closely aligned with donald trump. the donald trump party i still think is much more powerful than the republican party. by the way, outside of the u.s. senate, most people don't know mitch mcconnell is, don't care who mitch mcconnell is and most republicans going back four, ten years they hate the

establishment. they hate almost everything about the power. they hate media. they hate big government. often are now turning against big business. and so that's the reality that republicans are going to have to sift through for years and years to come. >> all right, jim vandehei. thank you so much. greatly appreciated. and willie, yes, the overwhelming majority of republicans still do, most likely, support donald trump. i suppose that there's a growing number who are deeply concerned about what happened last week. i think it is also important to note that while we're talking about republican members who want to bring guns on to the house floor, i'm sure there are a lot of republicans who are also horrified by that. i saw a video last night of some red cap-wearing supporters of donald trump. they were in the minority. but they were pushing people away from the police. trying to actually protect the police as other crowds were moving for them. you can't paint an entire crowd,

an entire movement with one brush. but you can say that there are enough, enough radicals, enough extremists, enough anti-americans who want to overturn the election results and who wanted to storm the capitol and who committed sedition that these precautions, these basic precautions have to be put in place. so members are not gunned down on the house floor. >> yeah. and there's a rule, as you know, joe. you cannot have a gun on the floor of the house. that's it. you can have your handgun on the capitol complex. you cannot bring a gun on the floor of the house. and so, that just shows you, we talked about yesterday, joe, and i know some people raise their eyebrows at it, but it turned out to be true there are members of congress who were concerned about a certain group, particularly the qanon supporting new members of congress, being threats to the leadership. being threats to other members of congress.

being threats to joe biden and kamala harris at the inauguration. those metal detectors go up yesterday and prove that, in fact, that was true. alexandra casio cortez said last night on instagram she was afraid during the attack on the capitol last wednesday to go to the safe room to go to the place where she was supposed to be protected because she was worried, as a high profile member of congress, those qanon supporting republicans would let the rioters and attackers know she was in there. so that's the vibe. that's the energy. and freshman congresswoman lauren bobert of colorado has been boasting about carrying a gun in the capitol. she reportedly refused to turn over her bag to capitol police after she walked through the metal detector, which sounded. she eventually was led into the house floor to vote. it's unclear how capitol police resolved the matter. she tweeted about the new restrictions in part, quote, metal detectors outside of the house would not have stopped the violence we saw last week.

it's just another political stunt by speaker pelosi. another republican congressman rodney davis of illinois reportedly told capitol hill officers, quote, this is b.s. republican congressman steve scalise criticized house speaker nancy pelosi saying the changes were, quote, never discussed with the house minority. debby lesko went further tweeting, these new provisions include searches and being wanded like criminals. we now live in pelosi's communist america. again, this is because there was a threat of carrying weapons on to the floor of the house chamber and they put in metal detectors. a republican congressman from florida greg steube said, quote, take note, america. this is what you have to look forward to in the joe biden administration. meanwhile, democrat rashida tlaib of michigan tweeted this, just had to go through a metal detector before entering the house floor. some colleagues are frustrated. guess which ones. by this requirement. now they know how high school

students in my district feel. suck it up, butter cup. she wrote. y'all brought this on yourselves. so, joe, we're seeing much more. >> steve scalise? >> we're seeing much more protests about metal detectors outside the house chamber than about the massive attack on the capitol last wednesday. >> these republicans are talking about how they want to carry guns on to the house floor, want to understand why that scares people? i read from a september, what is this, september 4th, 2020, article, gop candidate poses with rifle says she's targeting socialist congresswomen. house candidate whom president trump recently called future republican star posted an image of herself holding a rifle with photos of three liberal congresswomen of color and vowed to, quote, go on the offense against members of the squad. an unprecedented threat against lawmakers from a probable future

colleague. and that was marjorie taylor greene. so, that person who held a gun in a fundraising letter and had photos of three other members of congress and was targeting them is now a member of congress. and anybody wonders, mika, why they've got to put up security outside? the republicans are angry at the wrong people. >> let me explain to them. >> the republicans need to be angry at members of their own caucus. >> correct. >> that brought this radicalism and this sedition into the chamber. >> this is such a distraction. this is ridiculous. they're trying to make the capitol safe after an insurrection. and i mean, jonathan, lamier, let's just read what happened from, oh, say liz cheney. much more will become clear in the coming days but what we know is enough. the president of the united states summoned this mob, assembled the mob, and lit the

flame of the attack. on the capitol in the past week. none of this would have happened without the president. the president could have immediately and forcefully intervened to stop the violence at the capitol. he did not. there has never been a greater betrayal by a president of the united states of his office and his oath to the constitution. i will vote to impeach the president. stay focussed, people. jonathan, your thoughts? >> well, first of all, representative cheney laid out the case extraordinarily well there. democratic aide said that was better than some democrats have done in terms of why president trump is such an existential threat right now to the nation and why he needs to be impeached and removed. let's remember, this siege on the capitol, even though it feels like we've been living with for a long time, it hasn't been fully a week yet since it happened. and last night, the fact that these metal detectors were placed outside the house floor, and that a number of republican congressmen and women fought

them, this is the capitol police that lost now two of its own members last week and in the aftermath of the siege and yet they were republican representatives pushing them, shoving them, ignoring them, storming through the metal detectors. we have steve scalise, mind you, was shot on a baseball field a few years ago, adding his voice to the protests. let's be clear, let me underscore what willie said, the democratic aide said this to me as well, the reason why these metal detectors are there plainly there's a fear among leadership that if there was another insurrection, if there was another violent assault in the capitol, they couldn't trust some members of the republican congress to not side with the insurrectionists, to not pull out their weapon and fire off. so that is the concern here. that's why that's there. and also we should point this out in terms of safety of representatives, there have now been multiple cases of democratic lawmakers who have come down with the coronavirus, who have tested positive for covid-19 after being in a bunker

with their republican colleagues who refused to wear masks during that siege of the capitol last week. that is what is at play here. and yet, those are the people, those representatives, yes, they're the ones still loyal to the president and the white house aides, mika, to your point, they have their own internal polling. let's take that with a slight grain of salt where they see the president's numbers are still high among republicans. but, they have slipped some. this is a president who was up in the upper 80s, pushing 90, now he dropped down to lower 80s, upper 70s. that's still a big number but does show an erosion of support. right now the calculation made by mitch mcconnell and others in the republican leadership is if there is ever a moment to try, to try, to rid themselves of trump and his followers, this is the one. doesn't mean it's going to work. it doesn't mean he's going to go away, that is what they're trying to do right now, is try to make a stand and make a decision, how do they want to be remembered. what do they want for the future of their party and how do they want to be remembered by history. >> george what a damning snapshot of the modern republican party last night as

jonathan just described it. you had new members of congress, sitting members of congress, screaming at capitol hill police officers, shoving them in some cases because they had to simply walk through a metal detector to ensure they weren't carrying a weapon on to the floor of the house chamber. again, those are the same officers six days earlier who may have saved all their lives by forming a line as those seditionists stormed into the united states capitol. >> it's absurd the notion that these people can't walk through metal detectors and wear masks without complaining. it's beyond absurd. it's hypocritical. think of it. these people purported to come to washington to make washington -- to eliminate special privileges for the governing class. what do they do? the rest of us have to go through metal detectors and pat downs, we go into any federal building in america and in most

state buildings. yet they think they should be exempt from that. even though they were basically part of what caused an insurrection against the very building in which they work. it's just ridiculous. >> and can you imagine, mika, going to work every morning with co-workers who have sent around an image of you with them holding a gun and co-workers saying i'm coming after mika. i've got a gun. i'm coming after mika. and you would have to go in and sit in the same office with that person? and if you decided that you needed some security and going into that office since this person has actually said while holding a gun that she was targeting you. and there are other people that have been talking that way

throughout the 2020 election that her friends would be angry. this is not even a close call. and republicans that are whining about this, let me tell you something -- >> got bigger problems. >> you need to take it up in your house republican caucus meeting because that's where the problem is. >> trump republicans have now created a new normal on capitol hill. that you come to work and you could get shot or covid. thanks. conservative lawyer and co-founder of the lincoln project, george conway, thank you. coming up on "morning joe," we'll be joined by two democratic lawmakers ahead of today's house impeachment vote. majority leader steny hoyer and congresswoman val demmings who served as impeachment manager during president trump's first trial. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪♪

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live look at the white house. very, very dark morning. lights aren't on there yet. group of most senior uniformed leaders at the pentagon, the joints chief of staff issued a statement yesterday condemning the violence at the capitol as a direct assault on the constitutional process. so, as if trump republicans and mike pence needed more support to understand what happened here. the memo reads in part, quote, the violent riot in washington, d.c. on january 6th, 2021 was a direct assault on the u.s. congress, the capitol building and our constitutional process. we mourn the deaths of two capitol policemen and others connected to these unprecedented events. the rights of freedom of speech and assembly do not give anyone the right to resort to violence,

sedition and insurrection. the memo is a rare step for the u.s. military leadership to intervene in partisan politics, which again, joe, i don't understand how he is still sitting there as president of the united states when the people around him appear to be educated, appear to have read our constitution. mike pence took an oath of office that he's right now flouting for trump. >> so, on this memo yesterday, willie, it's interesting. there has been the belief among many that donald trump would -- and this is something that we've heard over the past two or three years, that donald trump would somehow hold on to power even if he lost an election through a military coup. we had a dress rehearsal for how that might look on june the 1st, little warmup act where the chairman of the joint chiefs, general milli, found himself in a position he didn't want to be in lafayette square park.

and then he put a memo out the next day telling members of all the services they were to stay out of politics and their job was to uphold the constitution of the united states. then the next day an extraordinary video to every member of the armed services saying that he had made a mistake and it was their responsibility, men and women of uniform, it was their responsibility to stay out of politics and uphold the constitution of the united states of america. it was i thought an extraordinary moment. and we saw the followup to that yesterday. an extraordinary moment at a time that calls for such steps, willie, especially when there's a growing concern that inside the ranks of the united states military there may be a growing number of service people who actually are sympathetic to the white supremacist cause, a

problem right now that many security services across europe and especially germany are having. >> yeah. there's so much coming at us right now minute to minute, hour to hour, that it's worth pausing to appreciate how extraordinary this letter is. you had the leaders of our military, of all the branchs of our military, led by the joint chiefs of staff general millie feeling compelled to put out a letter to state first of all that joe biden will be sworn in a week from today as the 46th president of the country, reminding members of the military their oath to the constitution and using the words insurrection and sedition to describe what happened one week ago today at the united states capitol. that's an extraordinary moment that they felt they had to come out and say those things publicly. but they did. let's bring into our conversation professor at princeton university eddie glove jr. and timothy schneider, author of a number of books, including "on tyranny" about america's turn to authoritarianism. tim has the cover story titled

"the american abyss" in it he writes this, quote, post truth is prefascism and trump has been our post trump president. when we give up on truth, we concede power to those with the wealth and charisma to create spectacle in its place. without agreement about some basic facts, citizens cannot form the civil society that would allow them to defend themselves. if we lose the institutions that produce facts that are pertinent to us, then we tend to wallow an attractive on strixs. truth defends itself poorly when there's not very much around and the era of trump, like the era of vladimir putin in russia is one of the decline of local news. social media is no substitute. it supercharges the mental habits which we seek emotional stimulation and comfort which means losing the distinction between what feels true and what actually is true. and tim, this is all boiled up, everything you've been talking about and writing about for years to this moment at the

capitol. and it was fed, as you say, by lies that percolated on social media, that came through on facebook, and were ultimately amplified by the president of the united states that this election was stolen when it was not. yet there are millions of people who believe the lie that they've been fed and it brought them to the capitol that day, one week ago. >> yeah. this tells us at least three things, one is that if you want to have a democracy based on law, you have to care about the truth. because if you let the truth go for too long f you lose truth as a virtue, if you just say, hey, it's my opinion. your opinion. at the end of the day, nothing will stop the violence. the second thing this teaches us is there's a pretty easy way out for republicans and others who are looking for a post-trump world. and that is to start telling the truth. it's hard the first time, but it feels nice after a while. if republicans and others would simply say the basic truth, that mr. biden won the presidential election, it would be much

harder for mr. trump to sustain the situation. the third thing that suggests about the future. given the facts and truth are so essential to the maintenance or improvement of a democracy, it seems like it would be a very good idea for president-elect biden to select some kind of a blue ribbon panel now of forensics experts, digital forensics experts, lawyers, constitutional experts, historians, national security experts to look over what happened on 6th january because the way things are looking now, the house is going to impeach, but i'm guessing there's going to be a trial somewhere around april. and by the time that trial happens in april in the senate, there should be an absolutely ironclad case, absolutely fact-based case about what happened. and i think if we have that, then the accountability that we need will be possible. because with truth comes accountability. without accountability, you can't have the rule of law. without the rule of law you can't have democracy. >> you know, eddie, in december of 2015 i asked after the muslim

registry proposal by donald trump, is this what germany looked like in 1933? here we are at the end of the presidency and i must say, i'm asking myself that question again. is this what germany looked like in 1933? and i say that as an insiders insider to the people who were carrying out the insurrection. i am a conservative. i am a white evangelical. i am from the deep south. i spent the majority of my life in the deep south. and reading columns yesterday by david french and rod drier, also you had a little conversation with rod a couple of months ago. these are not liberals. these are not left wing liberals. and rod, and david and i have all come to this same conclusion

and that is that it is the white evangelical american who is most prone to these conspiracy theories and are drumming these conspiracy theories up. and the perversion of jesus' gospel to now be somehow an organizing principle around these lies and these conspiracy theories, it's just absolutely -- it's disheartening but it is sick. >> yeah, joe. and you know, in some ways it is us. and what i mean by that is this, i think there's a difference between disagreement and sedition. right? we can have our disagreements as i did with rod, but to move from those disagreements to actually taking the position that one would want to overthrow our

democracy is another question. and then i was just thinking about frederick douglas's formulation that the church house stood next to the slave auction block. right? so there's always been this contradiction in this country. where theagetives matter, white christianity, black christianity. as the thee loejen howard thermen said, black christianity came as a refutation of the idolatry of white christianity. so we've been having this battle, right, within american christened for a long time. and ranging from slavery to african-american sat us the citizenship to this moment now. i want to ask brother timothy here. i think you're absolutely right about the importance of truth, particularly in the context of a dlibtive democracy. and how lies erode the very foundation of our conception of ourselves as a democratic republic, but what if there's a bigger lie behind the lies that we've experienced, a lie that informs the conception that white people matter more, that

white citizenship carries a different sort of meaning, when we look at "the new york times," for example, reporting all of the kind of paraphernalia of white militia and the like that in some ways that was a riot of white grievance, a mob in defense of white resentment. what do we do with that lie, timothy, in relation to the state and peril that our democracy finds itself in now? >> yes, sir. i agree with that completely. i mean, in the article "the new york times" magazine i said there was a big lie told by trump and there's a big lie about our history. and those two things are connected. and you have just named very precisely the big lie of our history. and that lie is that african-americans are not equal human beings. these lies are connected. when mr. trump says that he won the election, what he's really saying is that black people shouldn't be allowed to vote. when he's saying there is fraud, what he is really saying is that we shouldn't be counting those votes in those cities, in other words, we shouldn't be counting the votes of african-americans. the big lie in american politics is going to come down to race.

and that's why the people who stormed the capitol building, the people at the very front, were white supremacists. and when they're saying this is our house, what they're saying is that what only white people can be represented in this house. it's not about votes. it's not about equality. it's about race. and frankly, our democracy, the future of our democracy, hangs on the thread. and that's the thread do we look seriously, not only at the big lie of today but at the big lie of our history. and are we willing to say, look, everyone should be given their own voice, everyone should be given their own vote. if we accept that, then the big lies of the president will sort themselves out. so i thank you for that question. >> and so willie, for those that might think that we're engaging in crude racial reductionism, reducing everything to racism, it bears noting at this point timothy said that donald trump

did not complain about votes coming in in buckhead. no. no. he complained about the votes in downtown atlanta, in the black areas, in the more urban areas. he didn't complain so much about votes in rural wisconsin. what was he complaining about? what was he challenging? milwaukee county where black voters put joe biden over the top. he wasn't complaining about some of the upper peninsula of michigan. no. he was complaining about wayne county. this was directed, all of his complaints were directed at black voters, were directed at black precincts, were directed at overwhelmingly black areas. that has been the centerpiece of

this republican party's protests since the day after the election. >> yeah. there's no question that president trump was calling canvassers and inviting some to the white house in just the places you talked about to try to overturn the votes there. and eddie, as you look at what played out a week ago, we've said this ad nauseam at this point over the last seven days but it's pretty clear how different that scene would have been if we a different group of people storming the united states capitol. we'll see what happens a week from today now in this incredible two week stretch in our history at the inauguration, but i'm curious to see what you feel we can do to sort of reset things, if that's possible, or for joe biden to pick up the ball here under these incredibly difficult circumstances not just with what we're seeing with political violence but what we're seeing in the economy, what we're seeing with coronavirus. how do you turn the page from this dark chapter in our history? >> well, you know, willie, thank you for the question. i think we turn the page by

honestly confronting what has happened. you know, joe, i think you're right about donald trump. you know, in his mind he won the election by a landslide. and if you only count white voters, he did. right? but when you count all of americans he lost. but if you count the voters that matter to him, he won. and when we look at what happened on january 6th, willie, what we saw i think in full view was this illustration that for some they have a sense of citizenship that's robust, that they have the right to dissent. that they feel a sense of ownership of the capitol, an ownership of the country that only their votes matter and that all the rest of us should simply be grateful and that our protects reflects that we're unpatriotic. so what president-elect biden has to do is first they have to in some ways prosecute those seditionists, those folks who did what they did on january 6th to the fullest extent of the law. i think congress needs to have hearings immediately.

like we did in 1871 in order to squelch the violence of the kkk. we need to have hearings to look at the proud boys, to begin to expose very clearly what white supremacist militias are doing in our country. the jenny is out of the bottle. we cannot put it back. we must not put it back. otherwise we will find another generation later on having to deal with this mess again, willie. so i think we need to be direct. prosecute these criminals. and two, we begin to address explicitly how white supremacy threatens the republic at its core. >> eddy glaud jr., thank you very much. tim schneider, thank you as well. we'll be reading his cover story for the latest issue of the new york times magazine and we'll start the next hour of "morning joe" right now. little late. this president, as you know, he's going to take acquittal and think i can keep doing that.

>> i don't think -- >> you think he has regret with what he did. >> he'll be instructed by what occurred here. >> now we have that gorgeous word, i never thought a word would sound so good. it's called koeal acquittal. >> are you confident that he won't do this again? >> i think that he knows now that if he is trying to do certain things, whether it's fairing out corruption there, in afghan afghanistan, whatever it is, he needs to go through the proper channels. >> i did nothing wrong. did nothing wrong. >> if a call like that gets you an impeachment, i would think you would think twice before he did it again. >> think of it, a phone call. a very good phone call. i know bad phone calls. >> i believe that the president has learned from this case. the president has been impeached. that's a pretty big lesson. >> and we were treated unbelievably unfairly. and you have to understand we first went through russia,

russia, russia. it was all bull [ bleep ]. >> why do you have that feeling that he has changed, that he learned a lesson? >> well, i may not be correct on that. >> the president should be very careful over the next ten days that his behavior is what you expect from the leader of the greatest country in the world. now, my personal view is that the president touched the hot stove on wednesday and is unlikely to touch it again. >> what is your role in what happened at the capitol? what is your personal responsibility? >> so, if you read my speech, and many people have done it and i've seen it both in the papers and in the media, on television, it's been analyzed and people thought that what i said was totally appropriate. everybody to the t thought it was totally appropriate. >> last time just like this time republicans are hoping for a contrite president trump, which simply doesn't exist. along with joe, willie and me we

have msnbc contributor mike barnacle, national affairs analyst, exec ti editor recount and co-host executive producer of "the circus" john heilemann. victor ta defrancesco soto and sam stein. joe that montage of sound bites that we just played for our audience, how many times does america, do trump republicans, do people in the cabinet need to understand he's not going to change. we may have seven days. but he is a danger every single day he is in power. >> it is important these are the same republicans who supported donald trump when he was praising a congressman for beating up a reporter who asked a question about healthcare. these are the same republicans that supported donald trump when he told an audience that they

could stop hillary clinton from appointing federal judges by using second amendment solutions, by shooting her. we have to remember this is the same president who drew moral equivocation between fascists and neo-nazis and people who were protesting against fascists and neo-nazis. he said there were good people on both sides. this is the same president -- let's just take it up to the last month or two. this is the same president who in the weeks before the election was pressuring his own attorney general to arrest his political opponent and his political opponent's family and to throw them in jail two weeks before the election. and these republicans still supported him. in fact, 75 million americans still voted for that man. a man who refused repeatedly

during a debate to guarantee a peaceful transfer of power. so, yeah, of course, they know exactly what they're doing. they know exactly what they've been doing over the past four, four and a half year. they have supported a man who is a fascist. clearly a fascist and they knew he was a fascist all along and they continued to support him because it was politically convenient. by the way, i'm not saying 75 million americans have fascists. they certainly aren't. but they did vote for a fascist candidate for president. and americans are going to have to deal with that. we all have to figure out how to move forward from now. i suspect if the election were held today, donald trump probably wouldn't get 75 million votes. probably get more along the line of 74,850,000 votes.

that's just the way it's been. john heilemann, a lot of cross currents yesterday. i'll just throw out a couple of words and let you go with it. alamo, liz cheney. sound like chris matthews here. alamo! liz cheney! >> miss him. >> mitch mcconnell. let's go. so a lot of things happening yesterday. good morning, john heilemann. a lot of things happening. >> hey, good morning. >> -- yesterday, and a lot of reasons to be worried over the next seven days. >> yeah. you know, i was thinking trump, right. camera, tv, potato, pork chop, that thing. his memory test. i think that i'll focus on the one that you mentioned liz cheney. i think the most politically speaking -- there's trump and what the danger he poses to the country in these coming days. there's a whole topic to be

discussed related to what is going on out there in america with respect potentially of more political violence between now and joe biden's inauguration and whether that is now in some ways outside donald trump's control, whether that has a life now or life of its own spurred on by donald trump, led by donald trump, incited by donald trump. we now know the security concerns here -- i'm in washington, d.c. the security concerns here, people who have been doing domestic security, national security are saying on the record to reporters and to everyone in government that they are more concerned about the prospects for violence here in these coming days than they have been in their professional life times and that joe biden's inauguration is one of the great security challenges now of our -- of our -- of the modern age. then donald trump's responsible for pretty much all of that. let's put that aside. liz cheney and mitch mcconnell on the political side, joe, have now set in motion one of the

fastest moving, most unpredictable political dynamics i have seen in my time covering politics. those two, one very public, very outspoken in liz cheney. the other speaking through "the new york times," make no mistake that story would never have appeared with the language -- this is not in any way to demean the reporting of my two colleagues, two great colleagues, maggie haberman joe haberman, the mcconnell people wanted that message out. that's a purpose pitch in the language of baseball. that's mitch mcconnell saying i'm done with donald trump. what's important about both of those things is that it always comes back to self interest with mitch mcconnell. it's always about how to get back in power. how does mitch mcconnell get back in power in two years? and what mitch mcconnell announced yesterday is that his route back to power and his view for the republican party to get back into power is to take this

opportunity and, as donald trump lies wounded and weakened by what he did over the course of the last several months and particularly what happened last week, this is the moment to strike at the fallen king. and behead him. that's what mitch mcconnell is moving to do right now. he's saying this is our chance to get rid of donald trump and forget about the debate of whether what donald trump role will be in the republican party, trumpist party, is it not? we'll still have to have that fight, but we can get this man out of our party and out of our lives. now he may be wrong about that, by the way. mcconnell may be wrong. but what we're seeing right now is mitch mcconnell saying we must now rid -- this is our chance. and he's sending that signal clearly to his senate colleagues in the republican side as liz cheney said it to her house colleagues. they are going to be less prone to listen to her. they are much craziest house republicans than among senate republicans and much more trumpists over there. this is an extraordinary moment in your party where a very explicit outfront way liz cheney

and mitch measuring konl and others like them are saying far too late in my view, far too late but they are looking up and saying, the time is now to move on. and to rid ourselves of this stain. >> what trump has proven, willie, is he will shake you down. he will extort you. he will break laws. he will commit crimes. he will not back you. even if he promises to. what do republicans have -- let me use his phrase that he used for african-americans. what do you have to lose at this point? if you vote to impeach the president of the united states. we have a lot to gain. and mitch mcconnell, whose wife by the way is done with trump, too. better late than never but by the way could have stayed in there to help invoke the 25th. weak. but at least they're done with him. and what other members need to know is they need to look back at the tape, like the tape we just showed. the man never learns. he never changes. he engages in criminal activity

and he will hurt you if he wants to. i don't understand why this is a hard decision to make for trump republicans. >> well, there are politics and there are principles. the politics for some of these senators is that he remains the president, very popular in their states. they don't want to upset their voters. the principles are the ones that liz cheney showed. which her decision to vote for impeachment today probably isn't terribly popular in her district or popular in wyoming but she watched what happened in the capitol, she watched the president's behavior leading up and to after and the attack on the capitol and she made the decision that he has to go. sam stein, as you cover the white house, as you cover this congress, is it your sense that, yes, impeachment will pass through the house. the president of the united states can be impeached later today for a second time. extraordinary and historic in its own right, but is it your sense that there are senators, republican senators, who are at least considering voting to convict president trump, as i said, many of these republicans

are in states where the president remains popular. do you think that the signal sent by mitch mcconnell gives cover to some republicans to vote to convict? >> undoubtedly so. i think mcconnell's signal was precisely for that reason, not just to signal how he personally felt and to john's point, his desire to get rid of trump, maybe not trumpism, but to get rid of trump but also give cover to his colleagues. now, is it going to get to 67 votes in the senate? i don't know. but if mcconnell's in favor of conviction, that's certainly gives us a chance. so, that was a very serious move politically yesterday. and then let me just say to mika's question, i've been thinking about this a lot about what do you have to lose question. and one of the things that i think, you know, for my own self introspection purposes here and a lot of reporters are going through something similar. for a while we just assumed that elected republican officials were not in on the act. that they understood it.

they were in on the act. they understood trumpism, didn't believe in it but recognized that the political benefits accrued to them if they accepted it and turned a blind eye towards it. the last couple weeks have shown us a lot of elected republicans, including many members of the new class do, in fact, believe this stuff. they do believe in trumpism. that they aren't part of an constitution of congress but part of a party of personality. and i think you see that when you see a lot of them object to very basic security measures instituted in the house in the aftermath of these riots like metal detectors. the fact that they can't accommodate their colleague's need for safety says a lot about their view of politics. and that they believe in trumpism themselves. so, that's the conclusion i've drawn from this. but you know, with him going down to texas -- i'll throw this up to the panel, i think we'll get a really interesting, you know, sense of the political dynamics at play here. what is the perception going to be? what is he going to say?

there's obviously no contrition yet that we exhibited. i don't think anything in his history suggests that there will be. but what we really need to see and what i think will turn a lot of the impeachment politics is how the voting republic acts. he doesn't have a twitting megaphone anymore. i can't be overstated how powerful that's been. what does the voting republic say when he goes out in public and makes his case. not just a few comments here and there before getting on air force one. i'm fascinated to see what will happen in that moment. >> so, trump coming to texas, that is his safe place. to john's point, trump right now is battered and bloodied on the field with mitch mcconnell about to strike, you know, the death blow. and with that, he knows that he has to come to the place where he knows that he is best able to gin up that support. let's remember how trump started off his campaign.

he started it off with a xenophobic call. he started it off saying that mexicans were rapists and criminals. we have to build a wall. so the bookend to this, him coming to the border, him coming to texas is reminding folks of the other. and if we know one thing, from psychology, is the power of in group and out group dynamics. if you have an outgroup that you can vile niez, villainize, that helps coalesce folks in your in group or on the fence. so my hope is that better angels will prevail and that republicans, moderate republicans, folks who have not yet bought in wholesale to trumpism will recognize this. and say we're not going to give into this outgroup xenophobic mentality again. that being said, one thing i do

fear is that for many republicans who may not have bought into trumpism and just let it go along, at this point are buying into it because of fear, out of personal safety. so i think this is another element. how many lawmakers, republican lawmakers, have we seen harassed and heckled in public, in airports, so i think the fear factor is something that we need to tie in in addition to belief, in principle, in political strategy is also the raw fear factor of folks fearing for their lives and that of their families. >> mike barnacle, sam stein has brought along with him a poll. we're going to ask you a couple questions about this poll, though, as we look at these, again, pictures of the sedition, the attempt to overthrow the united states government and overturn a democratic election for a fascist. should trump resign before january 20th, yes, 55%.

no, 38%. if impeached should he be convicted and removed yes 54%, no 39%. but here we go. here is the question. if 24 republican primary is being held today, who would you vote for? >> donald trump, 40%. mike pence, 18%. ted cruz 7. nikki haley 6. donald trump jr. 6. mitt romney 5. donald trump, as he has been since the first republican debate in 2015, remains the dominant figure in the republican party even after fomenting violence and trying to overthrow the united states government or at least decapitate it. and have the constitution undermined by these riots. >> you know, joe, i've been listening to this sobering discussion that we've all been involved with here this morning

and there's a sadness to it that i -- sort of envelopes me. this is our country that we're talking about. and this one individual, donald trump, has managed to kill truth in this country, which is i think part of the reason we're here. and in the course of killing truth, he has created a cult among his following and not just a lot of the people who voted for him. a lot of the people who voted for him you can sort of understand the isolation and the resentment that they feel about their own lives, why they voted for him. i'm talking about people, members of congress, who balk at not being able to carry a gun on the floor of the house of representatives. who balk at having to go through a metal detector in order to get o the floor of the house of representatives when almost every american has to go through some sense of security at an airport, show your license for this, walk through here, you

can't go there. last week we saw a group of americans march up capitol hill with a passport for entry to the house of representatives and the united states senate. and their passport was their skin color. and i've not heard a lot of rebuttal from the republican members of congress about this with the exception of the marvelous liz cheney whose words should be scripted in stone. there has never been a greater betrayal by a president of the united states of his office and his oath to the constitution. that one sentence sums up what has happened to this country. and the sadness of all of this is that trump is not going to go away. what is happening now around him, that's his oxygen, his oxygen is what we feed him by talking about him and that we've been talking about him for four years, multiple times a day as he's lied and lied and lied. and sam, on this poll, the

republican party, they're going to nominate donald trump in 2024. the majority will nominate donald trump in 2024 to run for president. when are we going to declare the republican party that joe knows, people of a certain age remember is dead and gone? >> that is a question that i think, you know, more moderate-minded republicans are grappling with and have to answer frankly. when do they start or consider starting their own separate party? do they decamp to the democratic party? it's very evident from this polling data that trump is still in an enviable position for the primary if he were to run again in 2024. it's very reminiscent almost of the lead up to 2016 when we kept seeing him in that 30 to 40% range and everyone else in the sort of single digit tier. and if you just think forward,

there's not much that would give you hope necessarily that donald trump is not going to be the front-runner in 2024. so, you know, republicans have a choice, do they play within these parameters? do they try to be trump-like or chart a different path essentially and figure out if there's another way to build a political brand within the american political ecosystem. i don't know the answers to that question. i'm not sure if they are fully grappling with that question. there's obviously a big debate within the party about whether you can change it or whether it's irrevocably going towards trumpism. and i think that's in the months, years ahead these are the tectonic plates of american politics right here and who knows where it goes. >> john heilemann f you look at this number from the political poll, 40% want president trump back as the nominee among republicans next time around. you look at his approval ratings still in some states where these senators serve, are they willing to sort of walk the plank, if

you will, and vote to convict in the senate a president who may be very popular in their states? >> well, that's obviously the very large question, willie. sam indicated that he doesn't know the answer to it and neither do i. but i think the main thing -- because what is interesting about this moment is that the ground is shifting so fast. it's very rare in washington that the ground is shifting so fast that the dynamics are so unpredictable that it doesn't -- it's not a matter of how well sourced you or how plugged 234 you are where generally things are in flux. you said something earlier, we know donald trump is going to get impeached today. we do. we also know that that's going to be largely on party lines. there will be somewhere the white house thinks between 10 and 20 house republicans which is kind of extraordinary given the lock step loyalty to trump in the past four years between between 10 and 20 republicans will follow liz cheney and

defect. but the vast overwhelming majority, especially 130 plus house republicans who voted to try to desertfy the results of the election, even after the capitol had been desecrated and ransacked and they had their lives put in jeopardy last wednesday, those people are with trump. the question is about these republican senators. and i think this is where we come back to mcconnell. and the genuine sense of uncertainty that his break with trump, which you know the relationship between the two of them has been fragile many times over the course of the last four years. but, all indications when you started with elaine cho, his wife resigning at the end of last week, the fact that he and trump had not spoken since the middle of december, that mcconnell had tried to keep this vote from happening, begged josh hawley and ted cruz and said, please do not put us in this position. do not object to these electoral college votes. mitch mcconnell was trying in this last moment because again he thought his political interests were on -- in this

direction, was trying to prevent what happened last wednesday. then of course after the sacking of the capitol walked in and was constitutionalist in that moment again. does mitch mcconnell still have power over enough of the republican party? he's been the most powerful republican for the last 20 years in america, consistently over that period. he's going to be the most powerful republican going forward for the next at least two years. maybe the next four years. does he have enough power now having unleashed his caucus and maybe behind the scenes starting to actively encourage senate republicans to vote against trump, to bring conviction, to move this fast, start this trial and try to move on trump, whether it's right now before the inauguration or potentially after in order to get set up a circumstance where trump could be banned from politics again. will the republican senators follow him or not? that is the question of the moment. but i think there's a sense among a lot of people that are there are more republican votes to convict donald trump than we

think and there are more right at this hour than there were even 24 hours ago. >> all right, john heilemann and sam stein, thank you both. joining us now member of the house homeland security, judiciary and intelligence committee democratic congresswoman val demmings of florida. she was an impeachment manager in trump's first trial. congress woman, great to have you on the show. i would like to get your view of what a vote against impeachment will mean in the history books. but first, can you give us a sense of the process? how quickly can this move forward? and are there any impediments to getting a vote under way? >> well, thank you so much. it's great to be back with you. but, what an unbelievable day. you're absolutely right. we will impeach the president of the united states twice. the first time this has been done in history. but if we think about the last four years and the unbelievable behavior, the high crimes and

misdemeanors, attempts to steal an election and most recently to incite a riot and overthrow the government, this is all about accountability, holding this president accountable. he will be impeached today. speaker has the votes to do that. i believe that the senate, while we've heard a lot of rhetoric, i believe they can do anything that they have the will to do. i was pleased and encouraged, let me put it that way, to hear the remarks from the senator mcconnell yesterday. i believe the time is right. i believe the time is now. and i believe we have more bipartisan support, certainly more than we had the last time. so we'll see what happens. we can get this done if we have the political will to do it. >> and for those who don't, can you explain what this will mean in the eyes of history if they vote to keep this president to not impeach f they vote against

impeachment? >> you know, i have been, as you know, i spent a lot of years in law enforcement. i've taken several oaths. each one i meant when i raised my hand and swore that i would protect and serve the constitution against all enemies. i have been extremely disappointed and on some occasions angry at the lack of commitment to the oath from many of my republican colleagues. we're talking about military commanders, we're talking about members of the law enforcement, we're talking about those who served on the bench who are now members of congress who have apparently forgotten their oath. but you know what, we are not going to let their lack of commitment stop us from fulfilling our constitutional duties. they'll go down in history for not supporting our constitution, for helping the president incite a riot and not supporting the rule of law. they'll have to answer for that. but let me say this, we know

them by the fruits that they bear. and we know what they have done and what they have not stood up for to protect. >> congresswoman demings, it's willie guys. good to see you this morning. it's important to get a full accounting of what happened inside that building because frankly every news story we hear and every new day goes by it gets a little worse. we're hearing accounts of what was done to capitol police officers beyond the death of the one officer even. can you tell us our viewers and tell the country right now what that day was like for you, as you say. you were the chief of orlando police. you certainly know how to handle yourself. but i imagine that had to be a terrifying several hours. >> well, willie, thank you for that. i was certainly in a different position than i was used to being in as a law enforcement officer. and a chief of police. i was in the house gallery. i was glad to have that

opportunity to watch the peaceful transition of power. we knew that the protesters, we thought they were demonstrators, but we knew that they were outside. we were getting reports that they were getting louder and more angry and more agitated. we knew that capitol police had had some encounters. and i was seated in the gallery. i got up and stood at one of the doors to the gallery because i was just very uncomfortable sitting there with my back to the door and within minutes we were told that there was a breach of the capitol, which was just totally unbelievable. we've all seen the images of the rioters fighting with the police. we've seen the -- heard the words from the law and order president basically telling them to march down to the capitol and fight like hell and boy did they do that.

but it was just unbelievable. we as members were told to get down, get down, to get on the floor and follow the lawful orders of the capitol police. but i can tell you it was an intense few minutes in the gallery. we were not in a position to immediately evacuate like those who were on the floor. we were basically trapped in the gallery for a while. but, i just did everything that i could to remain calm and to help others around me remain calm because what i knew was that even if we did not make it out the gallery that day, what we were fighting for, what we were standing up for, the business that we were doing that day, it would continue to be done. no one could stop it. not donald trump. not even the rioters, the attackers, who descended upon the capitol that day. >> congresswoman, one of your colleagues said in a floor speech yesterday that rioters tased officers and beat them with pipes.

one tried to shoot an officer with his own gun. and one officer likely will lose an eye, others have head injuries. can you confirm that? have you heard those accounts? >> i know that there were up to 14 officers who were injured. i have not heard the specific extent of those injuries. i have no reason to believe that those things did not happen. we know officer brian sicknick lost his life trying to defend our democracy and protect the capitol building and protect us and our staffs. it was, you know, we have all watched the images on television. i was there that day, but to just see it unfolding day after day and the footage that i have been able to sit back in a safe place and watch has just been so disturbing. and anybody who watches that i don't care what side of the political aisle that you're on

know that all hell had broken loose, that our police officers were under attack, that members of congress who were just trying to do our job were under attack. that the vice president of the united states was under attack. and those responsible, those in the crowd, the members of the congress, the president of the united states and others must be held accountable. that's exactly what we are beginning to process today. >> congresswoman, as you know, there are metal detectors put outside the house chamber yesterday so that each member would have to pass through, according to our reporting, that came in part because some members feared that particularly some of the new incoming republican members who support qanon and other conspiracy theories might partake in violence, might bring a side arm into the house chamber. what is your reaction to those metal detectors being put in place and also your reaction to some republicans last night who were seen yelling and pushing, in fact, capitol police in

protest of those metal detectors? >> now, these are the same people who have given floor speeches over the last week commending law enforcement for the job that they do. thanking law enforcement and praising them for protecting them. and with all that law enforcement has gone through over the last week, we know the capitol police were understaffed. they didn't have adequate equipment. they did not have adequate assistance. with all they've gone -- they lost a colleague. they have others who are injured, others who are suffering from the invisible wounds of what happened on wednesday and the physical wounds. for all of that, we still have members of congress who would get in a confrontation with law enforcement so they can carry their weapons on the floor. i really want to know all of their names, all of of the members of congress who feel

like the most important thing after all that we have been through is to carry their weapon on the floor. but when people show you who they are, believe them. >> a lot of people doing that right now. congress woman victoria defrancesco sew toe is here with a question for you. victoria? >> what you're describing, it was terrifying to watch from here in austin, texas. i can't even begin to imagine what it was like on the floor. and you know, i want to put the actual insurrection to a side and i want to dig in to the racial double standard. so, if black and brown bodies had been the ones that were coming up on to the steps of the capitol, we would have seen a very different reaction, a very different physical reaction and also a reaction from fellow members of yours. so, has there been any

recognition by the part of your colleagues on the other side of the aisle about that double standard? i mean, it was so stark, especially in comparison to what we saw over the summer. so, you know, my question is about that, whether there has been a racial reckoning? and the second is a longer term question, representative. whether we see on the agenda in terms of the institutional changes, frameworks to address this. so there's the piece of understanding how we treat black and brown bodies. but also this recognition of the liberties given to white, domestic terrorists in trying to square that. so i think is there -- is there a concerted effort of saying, something has gone wrong and now we're going to get to fixing it. >> well, let me say this, victoria, and thank you so much for your question.

there are is no doubt that as a nation we need to have a very serious conversation about race. certainly we are looking at the response of the capitol police. thereby keeping in mind that many of the black lives matter protests that we witnessed last summer were handled by municipal law enforcement agencies, by county law enforcement agencies and i can tell you sometimes their response is quite different from what we do see with the capitol police. but we do need -- we are looking at the response that occurred. i can tell you what, i was extremely disappointed as a career law enforcement officer that there wasn't a -- i'll say it this way, a heightened level of force. once the attackers descended upon the steps, started climbing the building and breaking into the capitol, i do believe that the police should have used the

level of force necessary to stop them. they certainly were not trying to break into the capitol to shake the vice president's hand or to shake our hand and say good job. and so we are looking at the response, but while we're doing that we need to look at race in america, not just in law enforcement systems or within the house of representatives and the senate and other elected places, my goodness, we had, as you well know a state elected official who was proudly displaying himself on social media for being a part of the mob. we need to look at racism in all systems and how it plays in to maybe not just this response, the law enforcement response, but in just about everything that we deal with in this country. in terms of longer term planning, of course. we had -- we've had several meetings within the house caucus. we also had a security briefing with the acting chief, the acting sergeant at arms and

others a couple of nights ago. and we're asking all the questions they're providing some answers. i think we will get to where we need to be. i certainly feel better. i felt better after the call than i did a week ago. but we're still not where we need to be yet. we still have a lot of work to do. but i do have faith that we will get there. >> congresswoman val demings, thank you. we will be watching today. and still ahead on "morning joe," mayor bill de blasio joins us with some breaking news. how new york city is hitting the trump organization where it hurts. he'll be making that announcement first right here on "morning joe." plus, a third democratic lawmaker tests positive for coronavirus after the capitol riot. and all three are pointing fingers at republicans who refused to wear masks. "morning joe" is back in a moment.

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♪♪ live look at the capitol. the sun coming up over washington right there where the president will be impeached for the second time. that's the first time that's ever happened. congressman brad schneider of illinois says he has tested positive for covid-19. that makes him the third house democrat to test positive after sheltering during the deadly riot at the u.s. capitol last week. congresswoman jayapal also tested positive. along with congresswoman bonnie watson coleman who in a washington post op-ed blamed her diagnosis on some of her gop colleagues for not wearing a

mask during that lockdown. he writes in part, when i say that many republicans are responsible for what happened to me, to others, and to the country last week, i mean their essential failure to accept facts led us here. much like they should be able to accept the results of an election. elected leaders should be able to accept facts like the efficacy of masks. it's clearly time for a congressional campus-wide mask requirement enforced by the house and senate sergeant at arms. facts really do matter. i hope to get back to work soon, to make sure we respect them. last night the house approved t while on the house floor. now, if members don't wear masks, they will be fined $500 for the first offense and 2,500 for the second offense, but why do they need this?

meanwhile, government officials are encouraging states to give covid-19 vaccinations to anyone 65 and older as part of a push to speed up the country's rollout of the vaccine. states should also expand access to covid-19 vaccines to the 65 and up age group as well as any adult with an underlying health condition that might raise the risk for complications of covid-19. members of the operation warp speed are now recommending. the cdc reports that of the more than 25 million doses of the covid-19 vaccine that have been delivered nationwide, just under 9 million shots have been administered as of yesterday. that's incredible. this rollout is slow. joining us now senior vice president and director of global health and hiv policy at the kaiser family foundation, dr. jen kates, she worked on a

recent report detailing how states are doing, how states are doing with their prioritization plans for the vaccine. also with us "morning joe" chief medical correspondent dr. dave campbell. all right. so, dr. dave, am i right in saying that the rollout is incredibly slow or cumbersome? >> you're correct, but it's also increasing in speed every single day and week. and this next phase that you've just described is, in fact, what has come out this week from secretary aczar and backed up with comments by cdc director dr. redfield. yes, it's been slow. it's been disappointingly slow for everyone. there was the prediction and hope that by the end of the year there would be 20 million doses into people and it's only been 9. by now, it was only three at the end of the year. so, yes. slow but increasing in speed. but at the same time, mika, so

is the surge in the number of new cases. the number of hospitalizations and the number of deaths. so this is a race with vaccine going into arms as the as their coronavirus problem mounts exponentially every single day. >> dr. kates, the thrill of the approval of this emergency use authorization for this vaccine quickly turned into disappointment for getting into people's arms. why has it been so clumsy and how do we make it better going forward? >> we're behind where we need to be, as you just heard. there are two authorized very effective vaccines, but there is not enough vaccine to get to everyone who needs it. therefore, we're rationing a life saving intervention. this created a lot of challenges for state officials who have

been trying their best to figure out how to launch a massive vaccination campaign, but they are really struggling for a variety of reasons and that's where we are today. >> since the discovery of the vaccine and since the discovery of the virus, the federal government, the trump administration tried to lay a lot of the responsibility for dealing with the virus on to individual states and away from the federal government. the vaccines arrives. it is regarded as a miracle. good. we're here. but again the states bankrupt, undermanned as a result of their budget deficits don't have the personnel to move the vaccine. so how long do you think it's going to be before the states in coordination with the biden administration come to some sense of policy where the vaccine is going to be administered first come first serve in order just to move the vaccine in this country. do you think that's possible?

>> i'm not sure about the first come first serve quite yet, mike, but we have seen that this next phase does include money going from the federal government -- this is from dr. redfield -- to states to increase the ability of this vaccine to get into the arms of people. the problem that you're describing is recognized by the federal government and it's unfortunately playing out in the states in a very painful way. so everybody has the same goal in mind, i would believe. and that is to get as many vaccinations into as many arms, as many vaccines into as many arms as possible as quickly as possible. it is just simply a matter of having the operational side of it keep up. so we have a supply. we have a demand. the demand has now gone up, mike, because we have just changed the number of people who

are recommended to get vaccinated now in this new phase rather dramatically, 65 and up. everybody is an underlying health condition. that includes heart disease, lung disease, diabetes, cancer and high blood pressure. that's a lot of people, mike. >> dr. kate wanted to ask you about, sort of, when i think about the totality of this vaccine, it almost appears daunting, like a race against time. i don't think by the spring things will be back to normal. it seems more like a year from now. and also this new more contagious strain, how much of that is a race against time in terms of getting this vaccine to everybody and having normally return? what is the reality check on

that? >> i think the reality check is going to be a while. and getting vaccines out into people, how best to do it. most of the decisions have been pushed to the states and states in turn pushed a lot of those decisions to the government and consequently there are rules that vary all over the country and where you are in the vaccine line completely is dependent upon where you live sometimes down to the town that you live in. and that's created a lot of confusion. yes, we are in a race against time. and i think the goal is to find the right balance between state's ability to reach all of those who need a vaccine. there is not enough doses to reach the demand and the demand was increased yesterday.

doctors, thank you both very much for being on this morning. and speaking of the coronavirus, we've got an important piece online about some of the professional challenges posed by this pandemic. author jennifer folsom explains how she nailed a job transition amid covid-19 despite already having so much to juggle at home. it is important advice for anyone thinking about changing jobs or even if you haven't been thinking about it but maybe you should be. as we go to break, a reminder about new your values and partnership with forbes. you can nominate a woman over 50 who has achieved great success and paid it forward to other women. the submission deadline is closing in, so get going. get your nominations in. click on knowyourvalue.com for 50 over 50. up next t president's fire wall of support appears to be

breaking apart as the house prepares to impeach him for a second time today. we'll talk to the number two house democrat steny hoyer. plus, mitch mcconnell is pleased about the impeachment efforts, but will he vote to convict? more in a moment. to convict? more in a moment

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it doesn't really feel like we're being impeached. the country is doing better than ever before. we did nothing wrong. we did nothing wrong. and we have tremendous support in the republican party like we've never had before. nobody has ever had this kind of support. >> that was president trump gloating about republican support the first time he was impeached. he's about to be impeached again, and that republican support is showing major signs

of slipping this morning. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is wednesday, january 13th. along with joe, willy and me, we have white house reporter for the associated press, co-founder and ceo of axios and conservative lawyer, co-founder of the lincoln project and a contributing columnist to "the washington post," george conway joins us this morning. well, a lot to get to, joe. i think first we should start with is that donald trump is expected to become the first u.s. president to be impeached twice after vice president mike pence informed at this point the house speaker nancy pelosi that he would not go forward with the 25th amendment to remove trump from office. in a letter just hours before the house passed a resolution urging pence to invoke the 25th. the vice president wrote that such action is not in the best

interest of our nation and would, quote, set a terrible precedent. that is what he did. the house convenes at 9:00 a.m. debate is set for 12:30. the vote will be around 3:00 p.m. today. just one house republican, illinois adam kinsinger voted in support of the vice president invoking the 25th amendment. however, there are at least five republicans, including kinsinger who have come out in support of today's vote to impeach president trump. liz cheney, the number three republican in the house, along with fred upton and jaime herera will all vote to impeach the president. house republican leaders do not plan to encourage voting against impeachment, a change from the first impeachment of the president. the white house believes that by the time the house votes this

afternoon there will be two dozen republicans who will ultimately come out in support of impeaching trump. on the senate side, "the new york times" is reporting that majority leader mitch mcconnell has told associates that he believes president trump committed impeachable offenses. people familiar with his thinking tell the times that mcconnell is pleased that democrats are moving to impeach trump, believing that it will make it easier to finally purge him from the party. "the new york times" jonathan martin who coauthored that report tweeted yesterday that a senate aid thinks there were about 20 republicans, give or take, who were open to a conviction, and that was before publishing the piece on mitch mcconnell. sources tell axios that there is a better than 50/50 chance that mcconnell himself will vote to convict trump in an impeachment trial. a top republican close to

mcconnell said, quote, the senate institutional loyalists are fomenting a counter revolution to donald trump. >> a lot to digest there as a former republican, a conservative. mitch mcconnell, many others voting to impeach donald trump while donald trump goes to alamo, texas just to make sure that nothing is lost on his supporters what he thinks they should be doing in his final days of his administration and refuses to accept any responsibility for the insurrection against the united states government that he inspired last week. where are we right now with donald trump in these final days? >> it reminds me a lot, frankly, of all 1974 after the supreme court ordered nixon to produce

the tapes and after the smoking gun tape came out. i mean, his support is collapsing the way we saw nixon's support collapse in a matter of days back then. i think no matter whether or not he gets removed before his term of office ends or not, he's leaving in complete disgrace, as nixon did. but there is going to be a big difference. nixon, when -- i don't know if you remember. you were the same age as i. i remember watching what happened when nixon left that day, august 9, 1974, watching all morning. and you saw some contrition. you saw some regret. you saw some sadness and sar row for a man who actually did, unlike donald trump, love his country and want to do right by the country even though he made some serious mistakes and broke

some major laws. you don't see that with trump. and one of the things you are not going to see is any sympathy nor donald trump the way you -- there was some sympathy for nixon when he left washington as a broken man. this man, donald trump, because he's a psychopath, a man that can gloat and watch in glee as the capitol was ransacked and attack and as people's lives were threatened, this psychopath is never going to have -- he's going to be a pie rye yeah for the rest of his life. and there ( may be some republicans that support him now, but those republicans are the republicans, if you can call them that, who seek an author tan leader who is all powerful and he's leaving in absolute weakness. he can't even tweet at us this morning. >> can't tweet at us. can't upload a youtube video.

george is right. i do remember nixon, august 1974 as a child. but i understood actually more about it as i grew older. and i also understood that when the supreme court ruled 9-0 that he had to turn over the tapes, nixon understood immediately that we lived in a constitutional system of checks and balances. he knew where this was going, and he knew it was in the best interest of the country to resign. that's something obviously that donald trump has never been interested in and he never will be interested in. what is in the best interest of the country. that's why ben sasse and others are reporting that he was gleefully watching the riots take place at the united states capitol, gleefully cheering on the insurrection, the beating and overrunning of capitol

police officers, because it served his purpose. he was stupid enough to believe, stupid enough to believe that this was going to somehow stop the counting of the electoral votes and stop the united states congress from doing its constitutional duty. it shows you just how stupid this man really is. and in august of '74 when those republican senators went to the white house and told president nixon it was time to go, he acknowledged that, as you say, and he knew it was time to go and he did go. there is no contrition here. we saw it yesterday for the first time he had the opportunity in front of a group of cameras on his way down to texas getting on air force one to turn down the temperature and speak to his voters, he offered no contrition whatsoever. he said my speech was totally appropriate. he called this a witch hunt again and said it's getting very

dangerous. again, another signal to the people who rushed the capitol and may have plans for the inauguration. the question of mitch mcconnell, we're hearing reports that maybe 20 people, as jonathan martin said, are open to voting for conviction in the senate, 20 republicans. mitch mcconnell doesn't leak a lot, and we heard a lot out of his office yesterday through "the new york times" and other sources that say he believes the house is doing the right thing going after impeachment for the president of the united states. maybe that gives republicans some cover here. do you think that when impeachment passes through the house today, and it will later, there is a chance that still that senate, led by republicans, will vote to convict. >> there is a hell of a bigger chance today than there was 24 hours ago. last night mcconnell's people were telling mike allen that there is a better than 50/50 chance that mcconnell himself would vote to convict and remove trump from office, remove him from politics forever more.

it would be one of the unprecedented votes, one of the most stunning votes really in the history of our republic. and he doesn't do things by accident. he is sending a signal that you had one chance, one chance to be able to take a vote quickly and remove trump from politics and the party forever. and if you don't, you're betting that it is going to be his own undoing that would unfold over time, and i think mitch mcconnell understands the republican base. it is different than an elected republican, especially in leadership. the base, for the most part, based on the polling we're seeing so far, it allowed the e-mail you are getting and we're getting, a lot of those people are still with donald trump. it started not yesterday, it started when his wife left the cabinet. he was part of that. and then it escalated yesterday with the times story and culminated last night in telling

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the president incited a rebellion against the united states government, clearly unconstitutional act and people died. that's unforgivable. so our legal team is right now assessing options. and as quickly as we come to a resolution, we will have something to say. but, yes, there are several contracts with the city of new york and they're all under review right now. >> okay. so mayor bill de blasio, new york city, speaking yesterday

and mayor de blasio joins us today to announce what they have decided in terms of the contracts that the president has with the city. mr. mayor, welcome back to the show. what's the story? >> mika, here to announce that the city of new york is severing all contracts with the trump organization. our legal team has done an assessment, and the contracts make very clear, if a company, the leadership of that company is engaged in criminal activity, we have a right to sever the contract. inciting an insurrection, let's be clear, i'll say these words again, inciting an insurrection against the united states government clearly constitutes criminal activity. so the city of new york will no longer have anything to do with the trump organization. they have profited from these contracts. they will profit no longer. >> so tell us about these contracts that you are cutting right now. what is the magnitude of these

contracts? what do they cover? and what will it take to actually execute what you are saying right now? >> right now the trump organization profits about $17 million a year from these contracts that cover four different sites. three in manhattan. one in the bronx. a different entertainment sites. and, look, it's quite clear. the president of the united states directed a mob to attack the u.s. congress during the electoral college vote. that's -- even saying the words, mika, it is almost impossible to believe. but it's criminal activity. and, so, it's very clear. and the lawyers looked at it. it was just as clear as a bell. that's grounds for severing these contracts and we're moving to do that right away. >> mayor de blasio, it's willy.

why to begin with, is a trump organization golf course funded by taxpayers? >> look, i can safely say this was a decision made in the bloomberg administration. it is certainly not a decision i would have made. but they're not going to profit from it anymore. we're going to sever those ties. by the way, i'm not alone. the pga made a decision that they were not going to have golf tournaments, major tournaments at trump golf courses. our contract with the trump organization says they have to host major tournaments. they will not be able to do that anymore because the pga has said this is unacceptable. i think you will see a lot of this domino effect because of the president aiding and abetting an insurrection. but that is a deal that should never have been made in the first place in my view and you will not see that going forward.

>> obviously, you will get push back from the trump organization. you will probably hear publically from president trump about this. what are the problems as you try to get this done? >> look, willy, we're going to get new vendors to take over. what's obvious is these are sites that we want to continue serving the public, but not with an organization led by a criminal. so he will get new vendors to come in and take them over quickly. i want to see the service continue. of course we know the history of the trump organization. they will likely challenge us in court. but we're on strong legal ground. we're very clear about that. >> all right. mr. mayor, just while we have you here, we've been talking a lot about the vaccine and the roll-out and how long this is going to take.

what is the new york city story as it pertains to delivering the story to people who so very much need it. >> look, here is the bottom line. we've never now over a quarter million doses. we're moving very quickly. this week we projected to give 175,000, a million doses in the month of january. my problem now is i'm not getting enough doses from the federal government and the manufacturers. we will run out as early as next week. our pace is picking up quickly. so many people want this vaccine now that it is finally open to our senior citizens, so many people want it, our problem now is if we don't get resupplied much more amply by the end of next week, we're going to run out. >> mr. mayor, you have been fighting with the governor about who is to blame for the slow roll-out here. are you getting the help you

need from governor cuomo and are the state restrictions to get to the city the vaccines you need? >> look, i fought hard for the freedom to vaccinate. i'm glad we won that battle. i was out in queens with seniors who finally have the right to be vaccinated. they felt such relief. it is life and death for so many of our seniors. even just getting the first dose gave them a sense that they were going to make it through. so that was a battle worth fighting. what we need is maximum flexibility. we need the federal government, the state government to let new york city and localities all over the country do what we know best to help. they know what they're doing. let them have the freedom to vaccinate the right way. right now the central concern the speeding up the supply. i agree with president-elect biden. we need supply that takes us

ahead. like right now, i can't see passed next week because i don't have a supply. we need the defense production act invoked. we need the supply of second doses delivered immediately to localities. it's strange to me, willy, in the middle of a crisis of this magnitude why the federal government didn't realize they don't have the ability to go out and vaccinate people. states don't have the ability. only local tis, cities, counties, we do the work on the ground. give us the vaccine and let us fly. we need this right now because so many people -- i've got my appointments. we put them up. they get filled immediately. we have a phone line. we have a website. every time we put up more appointments, they're filled immediately. get us more vaccines so we could reach more people. >> thank you for that message. from the golf community to the banking community, now the city of new york, home of trump tower severing all contracts with the

trump organization. new york city mayor bill de blasio breaking that news this morning. thank you very much for being on the show this morning. we're about 30 minutes away from the house of representatives convening to begin the process of impeaching donald trump for a second time. the second ranking house democrat majority leader steny hoyer is standing by. he joins us next on "morning joe." >> man: what's my safelite story? i spend a lot of time in my truck. it's my livelihood. ♪ rock music ♪ >> man: so i'm not taking any chances when something happens to it. so when my windshield cracked... my friend recommended safelite autoglass. they came right to me, with expert service where i needed it.

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president ronald reagan in his first inaugural address famously said government is not the solution to our problem. government is the problem. it's a decade about which our next guest writes when we were promised in 1980 the wonderful old-fashioned life of bedford falls, we didn't pay close enough attention to the fine print and possible down sides. and 40 years later, here we are in pottersville instead, living in the world actually realized by reaganism, remade by big

business and the wealthy to maximize the wealth and power of big business and the well to do at the expense of everyone else. we were hood winked, and we hood winked ourselves. the author of that passage is back with us once again. best selling author kurt anderson. "evil geniuses." we take a look at how we got to where we are economically as a nation. also with us, professor of history at tulane university, walter isaacson and associate professor christina grier joins us. >> great to have you with us. kurt, obviously you and i don't agree on everything. but i really loved watching former republican, still love to watch when democrats fight and

you and ratner, that's perfect. we have to get hit back tomorrow. but just like their differences are, that reagan quote just reminded me of when i went to the house as sort of this libertarian/conservative/popu list. one of the things that irritated me so much was that, yes, you were right. there were republicans and there were business people that tried since the early 1970s to get government off of their backs. but it's so funny that most of these people, the chamber, these probusiness lab bying groups, they weren't such libertarians when people like me would try to break down the sugar subsidy. i remember catching absolute hell when i tried to end royalty relief so big oil wouldn't get

federal subsidies for doing what they do anyway, drill. you could go down the list. they would always grade you well if you voted against extending welfare benefits for poor, single moms. but you always get punished if you voted against and fought against corporate welfare. so i can't use the word this morning. let me just use the abbreviation. so this milton freedman we're small government champions and government get out of our life, i saw it firsthand from the business community in washington, d.c., from k. street, pure b.s. >> yeah. well, like you, joe, back then i remember reading the director of the office and management budget david stockman's account in real-time in 1980 in the amazing

cover story in the atlantic monthly saying exactly what you are saying, saying he came in as a joe scar borrow-esque republican saying it was just a lie. it was just about opening up the trough as never before to big business to the rich and admitted that supply side economics and lowering taxes so there would be lots of jobs, the trickle down idea was also a trojan horse and something they didn't believe. yeah, we'll lower tax for everybody, but we all we care about is lowering taxes for big business. when i started doing my research, i knew reagan got elected in 1980. i didn't realize until i did this massive amount of research how much changed, what a gigantic shift that was. as we spoke about the other day, it was being built up in the

'70s this alternate paradigm, this conservative counter establishment was sending people like joe scarborough to congress. but really the before and after in the '80s is so stark in so many ways. really as big a change as the '60s or the '30s, which is why i call what happened the raw deal rather than the new deal. you know, it is not just lower taxes and redeglation. it is college becoming more essential and unaffordable. all business regulation is bad. all taxes are bad. let's crush the unions, which was done of course. let's cut minimum wage. let's take fewer and fewer people out of the overtime pay situation. let's take away private pensions. all of it, all of that stuff changed in the '80s. so much of it happened slowly and its effects. yeah, taxes were radically

lowered immediately. not all deregulation is bad. but all these other things, all these millions of small, large, sometimes invisible changes sometimes took a generation to show up and produce this incredible inequality, insecurity, immobility that we found ourselves with starting at the end of the century. >> and walter isaacson, that's what concerns me the most. joe scarborough went to congress post region. they were also glad that tax rates went from the 70s down into the 30s. one of my frustrations is that if you try to do anything these days, let's say you tried to raise the top marginal tax rate from 49% to 32% or 36% to 38%, suddenly every republican gets on the floor and they start calling you a socialist and they start calling you a march,ist

and a communist. what i heard from small business owners in pensacola, florida. but, you know, we didn't just focus on regulations. it was this broad brush. and suddenly after 2008 we look back and we go, oh, my god, look at how regulations for the huge corporations and the world economy exploded because of it. i mean, it really -- it was this grand, sweeping design that really got out of control. >> yeah. i would take it back to kurt because i think his two books should be read as a box set. his earlier book "fantasy land" and then this book "evil geniuses" because what happens is this sort of weird conspiracy fantasy that had been an

undercurrent since the salem witch trials in early america get intentionally combined with people who want an economic change for the wealthy and for corporations. and so there is an unholy alliance or they call it a holy alliance, but an unholy alliance because the conspiracy theorists that involved into the qanon types and the type of evil geniuses he talks about in this second book. there is this intertwining of these two things against qanon types and the economic types and how does this get unwound? >> that's -- you couldn't have put it -- i couldn't have put it better, walter. thank you. they are connected. you really see one place in which the republican

conservative basically saying we're no longer necessarily good with -- committed to facts. committed to factual reality. you see it in '89/'90 when the george w.h. bush administration was about to have a massive climate change initiative, right? we were going to get global warming down. john sa knew knew as a definite evil genius in '89/'90 said, nope, we're not going that. in fact, we will begin the process and the campaign of casting doubt on the science of climate change. so that was a big step down the slippery slope toward denying reality. and then in the '90s as well and all kinds of other ways, in these mad conspiracy ways, things that 30 years earlier the conservatives had cast out of the mainstream of the right, the

john bircher stuff were allowed in to the republican party. and the billionaires and the university of chicago libertarians and all the rest didn't believe it, but they used those, politically used those exciting falsehoods that were growing in number and adherence in the '90s to get their way because joe said the other day, if you just make a political party around the needs of the rich and big business, you don't have a political coalition. you can't win elections unless you get these other people who you can convince to vote against their own economic interest to believe all kinds of fantasies that get you elected. and that's really to your point of how these two things have worked together. >> that's something donald trump of course pulled off in 2016. professor, it is so fascinating

to watch self-described small government conservatives go along for the vote and that vote in favor of exploding debts and deficits and go along with tariffs because president trump thinks it is a good hit against china. all these things they said were core to them now abandoning those. i suspect they will find themselves with joe biden in office now talking about adding more money, more aid in this covid relief, saying that first plan should just be a down payment, the one they passed a couple weeks ago. there is going to be more government needed. there is going to be more government brought to bear to the problems in front of us. it will be interesting to see if these conservatives find their religion again on debts, deficits and the like. >> well, that will be interesting, willy. we see that the conservative not only fail to have a moral cam pass but a policy cam pass as well. we have seen this time and time again. republicans run the country into the ground and spend, spend,

spend and the democrats need to raise taxes to strengthen the social safety net and all of a sudden democrats are the ones who like to waste money and throw it all the window. we have vuk churl issues at the heart of the republican. kurt was referencing this just a minute ago. but lbj, my favorite president spoke so eloquently that if you can convince the courts, you can pick his pockets all day long. convincing poor members of their factions to vote against their own interests time and time again. i guess my question for kurt, though, is it struck me in the beginning premise of the book is saying back in the new deal area, the tide lifted the boat. i scratch my head because we know fdr made great concessions with southern democrats to make sure blacks were excluded from so many new deal benefits that

it created the foundation of so much inequality of black americans when we compare them to whites. so can we get a drop of hope in 2021? how do we bridge this divide when we know that there is not just a 400 year but policy wide a 100 year head start that so many white americans have based on everything from policies in america, from education to housing to the environment to public health to health care. the list goes on and on. >> yeah. it's a great point about the unholy alliance that fdr and the democrats had in the 1930s and god knows until the '60s really with the southern segregation democrats. it was foreshadowing or history was about to repeat the southern

segregation jet sonned by the southern segregation from the '60s. you're right. all those did not rise enough. there was all this, certainly in housing and all kinds of other ways, a built in structural racism. absolutely. so i do -- you know, during the democratic primaries, you know, there was all this tiptoes around the idea of reparations, for instance. and i do think one of the things, one of the structural ideas that needs to be on the table, not probably tomorrow, but, you know, as was talked about in the primaries this incredible almost 10-1 ratio of household wealth among white people vs. household wealth among black people. that hasn't improved. so how do you improve that? i don't think you do it --

that's a thing that probably can't be done incrementally. by the way, equalizing that doesn't need to be all that crazily exensive. i would say that needs to be on the table. one of the things i want to talk about is the wall street part of this. and which also, for folks in the 1980s, was so important in changing the system, changing who was supposed to do better in the american economic system from, you know, main street to wall street and the degree to which before the '80s wall street did not run our economic system. after the '80s they really have. and the stock market and the dow became the all encompassing metric for how things were doing. and of course, you know, a tiny fraction of americans owned a vast majority of stock, even

though half of us own stock in only fashion, most -- 84% of the stock is owned by a tiny fraction of people. and that's the other thing, the other big thing along with unions being crushed that happened in the '80s to make america more unfair. >> so we need to wrap this up. but i really -- i want to bring up one more issue with you, kurt, really quickly. you know, i talked about corporate welfare and how the supposed libertarians absolutely love small government and want government off their backs until they get corporate welfare. i would say charles koch, he's separate from a lot of those people on k street, especially in the area -- another area that irritates me, the military industrial complex of course some would accuse him of being an isolationist.

but you look at the military industrial complex. eisenhower was right. when i first got to capitol hill, i'd be in the judiciary committee and we'd debate. i'd say, the democrats are going to say this. the republicans are going to say this. but when it came to the b-2 bomber or f-22 program or some new massive program, programs the pentagon didn't even want, they would say, we don't need it, i'd be like wait a second. where are these votes? i couldn't match it up. after a week i'd go, oh, that's the representative from lockheed martin. oh, that's a congressman from -- you talk about waste and unbelievable waste in the pentagon and so-called small government conservatives that had been at the forefront of that since the day eisenhower left office. >> absolutely. in terms of government, oh, i

don't like government, i mean the classic thing of the last ten years is don't let government take my medicare from me. people don't understand or they do understand in the case of your lobbyists how much government does for them. >> yeah. no doubt about it. we'll talk about that a lot more tomorrow. we have a couple more days with kurt anderson. >> and his week long residency on "morning joe." thanks to you all very much. joining us the democratic congressman of maryland. we're hearing from jonathan karl that the house will send the impeachment resolution to the senate next week. can you confirm that? >> i would be surprised if we waited until next week. i think we will send it as soon as we have the ability to do so. i don't think we're going to wait. who did you hear that from? >> abc's jonathan karls reporting. but i do actually ask why wait

until next week? because can you get it to the senate earlier? >> the answer to that question is there is no reason why we can't send it this week. and my expectation after discussing with the speaker is we intend to do that. she's going to be appointing managers, i think, today so that we're prepared to move forward and we want to send this to the senate as soon as possible. we think there is an urgency here. >> so do your senate colleagues reflect that urgency? what have you heard? will they respond quickly? >> i don't know the answer to that, mika, frankly. i was interested in what senator mcconnell said yesterday. he is pleased we are moving on the impeachment. that mirrors the comments of liz cheney. it mirrors the comments of the ranking member of the homeland security member and adam kissen

ger of illinois, all who are republicans, all who said that they, as liz cheney said this is the biggest betrayal of the oath of office. they need to move urgently and we had done that. last night, we passed a resolution for the vice president to act on the 25th amend. he's indicating he's not going to do that because he believes it is a mental disability. some of us would argue that is exactly what we're confronting. i think that's why so many cabinet members resigned because they don't think this president is acting consistent with what they think are the best policies for our country so that we're moving quickly. we will move today. we will adopt an impeachment resolution today. we will send it to the senate. so i don't think that report is accurate. >> congressman, a lot of people

watching this and some of your own members believe and hope that impeachment is just the first step in a process to prevent president trump from running again in 2024. we showed a new poll that showed republican voters recommend him as the next nominee, 40% of them. they still are with him on this. do you see a path for stopping him from running for office again next time around? >> well, look, i think number one, he's committed some criminal offenses very, very serious to border on incitement -- not border on. a number of republicans said this and the chairman of the republican congress, liz cheney said this, he has violated his oath of office. he is subject to impeachment and hopefully conviction. but nevertheless, he has committed some crimes in my view. i think the legal community will

pursue those, the u.s. attorneys, the justice department as to whether or not in fact this president did in fact as i believe he did incited as liz cheney said. he invited a mob. he deployed the mob and he urged the job on to undermine the counting of votes to determine who the president of the united states was. a direct assault on the constitution and a direct assault on the transition of power peacefully. unfortunately it wasn't peacefully. and the president -- so there are a number of routes that are available to us to disqualify him from running. the 14th amendment, as you know, says if you are convicted of sedition or insurrection that, in fact, you are under the constitution not able to seek any public office, not just the presidency but any other public office as well. so, yes, there are a number of routes that will be, i think, pursued in the future.

>> congressman hoyer, this is walter isaacson. i have a couple of questions of what might be downsides of the impeachment. one of which is it could slow up joe >> well, i don't know that he came out stronger out of the last one. the senate did not have a real trial. they didn't call witnesses. they didn't consider frankly the evidence, and i think hopefully a number of them are looking back and saying we made a mistake. what we democrats said and managers of the impeachment process said, look, this telephone call is not an isolated event. this president does things beyond the law. this president does things solely for his own political interest or personal interest, not for the country's interest. and that's what some republicans are saying now.

he said if we do not address this, then we will be shirking our duty and the congress and constitution will be at further risk and our democracy at further risk. those are the stakes. walter, when you ask me what impact is that going to have on how rapidly the president's appointments will be approved after all -- for one thing, you're right, the constitution requires them to go on this. there's been some discussion of doing half and staying on impeachment half the time and half the time doing the business of the country. we know chuck schumer will be the majority leader so he will be able to the extent that is possible manage the timing of those appointments. they're important to get done but nothing is more important than protecting our democracy and our constitution from a president who would undermine both. >> yes, he would. house majority leader steny hoyer, thank you very, very much

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walter, we had a president impeached in the 19th century, president impeached in the 20th century and president impeached in the 21st century. now we'll have that same president impeach twice during a year's time. you can't say it's a radical opposition because you have mitch mcconnell and "the washington post" editorial saying donald trump committed impeachable offenses. where are we? >> i agree, he committed impeachable offenses but it's not just about impeachment of donald trump. this is a difficult week and you all on this show commendably

have been talking about the deeper problems of americans being disenchanted, disenfranchised, disconnected sometimes in truths and facts and there's understandable reasons, deep resentments in our society. we have to fix those things. democrats and republicans alike, who want to uphold the constitution of the united states, can't just say this is a problem of donald trump but everybody feels bought into the economic system, political system and feels like they haven't been left behind by some global wall street banker-type finances that have messed up those who just want to go to work, do their jobs and raise their families. >> or trump republicans who are in the position of making a decision here. this is a deeply disturbed man who has executed criminal acts against our country. this is your chance to finally take a stand for america, no matter what.

willie geist, final thoughts? >> it's another extraordinary day and extraordinary four years and extraordinary week where we're going to see the president of the use impeached for a second time. a one-term president who lost the popular vote twice will be impeached twice. we've never seen it before. as mika says, joe, this will be a moment on the record for members of the house to cast a vote. do you support what you saw at the capitol last wednesday, plain and simple? a president who fanned the flames of an insurrection, of something much more than a riot. it was an attack, a planned attack that killed a police officer, that threatened the lives of our leadership of our country that's not a political statement, of all of the leaders of our country including the vice president of the united states. are you okay with what you saw at the capitol last wednesday? we will find out in the house today. >> and republicans in the house and the senate need to understand that as the acting u.s. attorney for washington, d.c. said yesterday, the capitol

grounds inside and out is a crime scene. and they're going to be skewering the crime scene, the justice department skewering the internet, use all of the powers they can to bring these people to justice. the longer we get into this story, deeper we dig, the uglier it's going to get and the more of the tentacles will reach back to donald trump and radicals in the republican party. so the vote that they take today in the house, the vote they will be taking in the united states senate, will define not only their term, it will define their legislative careers and their life. and that's what they have on their shoulders. mika, it will also define what type of country we are as we move forward. >> take a cue from the banking community, the golfing community, the city of new york,

all of the different public and private organizations that are cutting ties with this man because of criminal activity, because of a criminal assault on our capitol. it's very simple. that does it for us this morning. msnbc's special coverage of today's second impeachment of president trump starts right now. well, good morning, i'm nbc's chuck todd right here in washington and welcome to msnbc's breaking news coverage of the unprecedented second impeachment of president donald john trump. the house of representatives is about to gavel in as it readies to debate and vote on the second historic impeachment of president trump. exactly one week after he incited a deadly mob to storm the capitol. house lawmakers will be gathering today in the same chamber where members huddled on the gallery floor last week fearing for their lives. as the proceedings get under way, the question is not if the president will be