that does it for this edition of andrea mitchell reports. stay safe. chuck todd is up next with mtp daily only on msnbc. if it's friday, america braces for the potential for more political violence. a massive effort is under way to identify and disrupt these threats to nation's capitol and the 50 state capitols and more as new evidence suggests many of these capitol rioters attempted to capture and assassinate some members of congress. in trump they trust. the republican electorate is largely standing by their man even after his incitement of a mob to attack the capitol has led his standing to nose dive with other americans. president-elect biden lays out his plan to pump nearly $2 trillion into our pandemic pounded economy as democrats

prepare a two front struggle trying to advance biden's agenda amid an impeachment trial in the senate. welcome to friday. it's meet the press daily. the 51 symbols of democracy are sadly having to prepare for the threat of more political violence in the days ahead. that comes from domestic violent extremists as they are officially labeled by the fbi. dves. preparation for biden's inauguration was cancelled today due to security concerns. speaker pelosi is task retired lieutenant general to be the man to independently review all aspects of capitol security. the mayor of washington, d.c. alongside a number of federal security officials are holding a

briefing about the city security posture for next week's inauguration. something many of you have been watching throughout the last hour as officials urge merges stay home. don't travel to washington for this event. that comes as the justice department announced it's charged 44 people, so far, for taking part in last week's riot. a court filing in one of the cases says strong evidence suggests there was an intent to capture and assassinate member of congress. politico is reporting online extremists are ignoring the president's recent plea from calm with many taking their cue that he hasn't conceded and the pleas came under political duress. it came right after he was impeached. here is christopher wray briefing mike pence. it was wray's first public appearance since last week's attack on the capitol. >> we are seeing an extensive amount of concerning online chatter, is the best way i would

describe it. about a number of events surrounding the inauguration. right now we're tracking calls for armed protest and activity leading up to the inauguration and the reason i use the word potential is one of the real challenges in the space is trying to distinguish what's aspirational versus what's intentional. >> inside the capitol some lawmakers are worried some of their own republican colleagues might be a threat to their personal security. this comes as large swaths of the republican electorate are standing by the president despite his action perhaps motivated by propaganda from the right wing. some polls show the standing erodesing in recent days. our poll shows that republicans are overwhelmingly opposed to his impeachment and removal. the level of support for his second impeachment is unchanged

nationally. in case you're wondering if you compare polls to polls, our poll was of register voters. the other polls are all adults. you can say it explains the gap with o washington post and abc. the difference between adults when you look at the job rating and what we we have the latest on how lawmakers are treading with impeachment, security fears. let me start inside the capitol. we know the levels of trust is pretty low right now. it's gone from distrust politically to another level of distrust. how do you deal with that security issue if members of

congress do not feel secure from other members of congress? >> reporter: it's pretty incredible that democrats don't trust some members of the republican party who actually there have been a request for an investigation into some of these members, particularly three or four of them that they played a role in what happened on january 6th. speaker pelosi said at her news conference about an hour ago that should this investigation find they were, that they did have a role, that perhaps it's something more than congress can deal with. it's something that law enforcement and the legal system needs to address but there's all sorts of signs around the capitol at this level of distrust, including the installment of metal detectors to get out into the house floor that members of congress have to walk through. the first couple of days they

were there members were walking around them. some republicans were refusing to walk through. speaker pelosi did is instituted a $5,000 fine for the first offense and 10,000 for the second. i've never seen anything like it that people don't want to be in the same room. there's another level of distrust regarding weapons and insurgency but covid as well. some of the same members are refing to wear masks. >> does the house republican leadership, i understand rank and file is going to act the way they have. has the house republican leadership, do they -- have they reached out to some of these democrat, maybe out of shame, out of their own apologizing, trying to extend some sort of peaceful olive branch or they stayed silent on the idea that some of the republican

conference, some members of it, appear threatening to other members of congress. >> reporter: we can now separate divide house republican leadership. you have liz cheney who is out really on her own and you have the rest of the house republican leadership like kevin mccarthy and steve scalise. they haven't indicated there's any of these conversations ongoing with the democrats to try to reconcile even though they are preaching that unity is necessary. there's been no signs of them giving that olive branch other than the fact their definition of unity is not impeaching the president and just moving on and acting as if anything like this did not happen. kevin mccarthy has a real problem on his hands. he's going have a very difficult time dealing with his conference. he was coming in to this new

year with a very slim minority of the power to do a lot of influence legislation. now he has some of these members who are still saying that donald trump is going to be president after january 20th. >> is she waiting to find out what kind of compromise they work out before the trial before sending over the article? >> reporter: i think in her news conference she had no update. we know schumer is talking to republicans trying to figure out the parameters of the trial, including the start date. that start date could be on inauguration day. my understanding is that the part of the negotiations as well as how long this trial is going to last. democrats think it's in their best interest to have a very speedy trial. one day, maybe. two days.

>> i hear you. do republicans want a long trial. that doesn't strike me as something they would want either. alison, do something for me today that i've been asked to do when i talked to various radio interviews, try to put into perspective what we're seeing at the capitol, if you can, to what it's normally like or what it compares to other world capitols. >> reporter: it's essentially a fortress. let me have you walk with me so you can see what we see. this is one intersection in d.c. near the capitol. you can see there's somebody talking to carteling them they cannot come past this check

point. law enforcement officers, soldiers are at check points in blocks all around the capitol and most of downtown d.c. is blocked off to most people, particular vehicular traffic. you can see the cement like barricades. if you look up the hill, you can see all of the barricades that surround the united states capitol. those are nine, some of them ten feet tall. they have flat bases that make it nearly impossible for protesters or rioters to knock them over if they try. they are all linked together making it more secure. you have armed soldiers standing, patrolling around the capitol ground in addition to capitol police, secret service. if you look a little behind us, you can see even more military vehicles. this is d.c. right now. when you talk to people who live here, who have been to inaugurations in the past, i

lived here for about eight years, it's hard to find anyone who has seen something like this even people who were here their entire life. they say this is completely abnormal and d.c. is so used to high security events but not high security events like this. >> you did a terrific job of showing this. you're not that close to the capitol. that's as close as you can get. that's what size of a perimeter they are trying to create there. joining me is california congressman ted lieu. congressman, it's good to have you on. thank you for doing this. lets me start with when should this trial begin? >> thank you for your question. chuck, it should begin as soon as possible. the house on a bipartisan basis voted out the article of

impeachment, incitement of insurrection. there's nothing stopping the senators from convening this monday to hear the trial. we continue to have the trial as soon as possible. >> we all went through the last impeachment and so everybody is an impeachment expert based on what they saw in the last impeachment. we saw the committee hearings which were used to create the evidence that was used to present by your predecessors a year ago this month. what is the evidence that you plan to introduce. one of the things, in my head is, are you -- do you have somebody right now piecing together every piece of video of this insurrection that perhaps the senators themselves did not see and is that something the senators will see? >> i can't say this any better than what the number three house

republican liz chaney said. she said that donald trump summoned this mob, assembled the mob and lit the flame of this attack. it's all on video tape. we don't have to call in donald trump as a witness and say, hey, did you give that speech? we know he gave that speech. every one can see it now, read the transcript. we know there was this violent attack on the capitol by domestic terrorists. that they killed a police officer that based on new reporting there were 90 feet away from vice president pence who was hiding with his family. they were chanting hang pence. imagine if they got their murderous hands on vice president pence and his family, what would have happened. we don't have to have a investigation because this is all captured on video tape for the american people to see.

you're going to make sure the senators see it all that perhaps they didn't see since they had been quickly taken away? >> first of all the senators have seen a lot of this because they experienced it. some of these senators knew they were in harm. based on new reporting we know that some of these domestic terrorists were trying to assassinate elected officials. they were hunting for senators and representatives and vice president pence and what we also know is that donald trump incited these domestic terrorists to do this attack. not because people unhappy with the corporate tax rate. they were doing this because congress was going to formalize donald trump's defeat and joe biden's win and donald trump was trying to stop them. >> how much of the georgia, it's interesting if this, my guess is if we had six months to ago,

what he did with georgia, you could probably create another article if you will. this second indictment of another crime or another high crime or misdemeanor. how much do you believe georgia should, in your view, be part of your case to those senate jurors? >> that's a great question. the article itself does reference his phone call with the georgia secretary of state where he told him to find 11780 votes to overturn election and this goes to the whole point of why washington, d.c. looks like an armed fortress. it's because donald trump for over two months spread the big lie that the election was stolen. his violent supporters, the violent part of the base believes the election was stolen and that's why they are so rage filled. they believe donald trump is a legitimate president and joe biden is illlegitimate.

if donald trump says one sentence, the election was not stolen, he could calm down the confusion. he is continuing to inflame the violent part of his base. >> in your view, georgia is a part of this but the focal point is the insurrection. >> the insurrection that occur january 6th all thus saw and some of us experienced but it did occur in a vacuum he called the mob on january 6th but predating that for over two months he was telling the monothat the election was stolen and they had a calm on january 6th to rectify that. they had a show of strength. they couldn't show weakness and had to take their country back and fight like held. this will be in context when the senators see this. the senators already know this because for two months we all experience donald trump's lies. >> congressman, was there any

thought given to including one of the ten republicans who voted to impeach as a manager? >> that's beyond my pay grade. i don't know how to answer that, chuck. >> i hear you. i take it if one was added, you would accept it? >> yes, absolutely. i would. this is the most bipartisan impeachment in u.s. history. we also expect we'll have a bipartisan amount of senators who will take their votes after trial is concluded. >> right. as you make note, that was not your decision about who to make the impeachment managers. i would joke everybody has a boss. congressman ted lieu, thank you for coming on. >> thank you, chuck. up ahead, the growing concern in state capitols across

the country that they too could be the target of violent protests. i'll talk to the attorney general of michigan. they already activated the national guard. america's crisis of misinformation. this is the key. this pipeline. it's almost as if our drinking water has toxin in it. how we got to this point? is there any way to step back from the brink? any way to step from the brink i'm susan and i'm 52 and i live in san francisco, california. i have been a sales and sales management professional my whole career. typical day during a work week is i'm working but first always going for a run or going to the gym. i love reading. i love cooking healthy. it's super important to me. i was noticing that i was just having some memory loss. it was really bothering me. so i tried prevagen and it started to work for me. i wish i had taken prevagen five or ten years ago. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. metastatic breast cancer is relentless, but i'm relentless every day. and having more days is possible with verzenio, proven to help you live significantly longer

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welcome back. many state capitols locking down this weekend. ohio governor ordered other buildings closed in columbus through inauguration day. national guard members and state police are patrolling the state capitol. crews have boarded up the capitol building in richmond, virginia. virginia national guard is on stand by amid fears of violent protests there. california's governor activated the national guard to sacramento

in order to deal with protests in that capitol there. perhaps they put up a six foot high fence in an attempt to deter protesters. perhaps no state is bracing for violence like michigan which already saw armed protests last year over the governor's covid restrictions. the same governor who was later a target of an alleged kidnapping plot. officials have built a fence around the capitol in lansing and earlier this week a state commission made it illegal to openly carry weapons in the capitol. in a moment i'll be speaking with michigan's attorney general but right now we'll check in with dasha burns. she is in lansing. nothing like a good snowstorm that might deter some violent protesters. >> reporter: welcome to a snowy, slushy day here in michigan. we are right at the state capitol. you mention that fence going up.

you can see it right there. it was just installed in the last few hours. it surrounds the front of the capitol. we have seen a pretty visible presence from the michigan state police. they have been circling the perimeter on foot. we learned today over the weekend the michigan national guard will be joining them as well. now, in terms of the lansing police department which will be working and coordinating here we heard in a briefing from law enforcement, the police chief had a message for public. he said this weekend if you do not have a specific reason to be in this downtown area, please do not come here. chuck, you mentioned that open carry ban. that's been a significant issue here. we reported on that a lot ahead of the election. michigan is an open o carry state. what we're hearing from some lawmakers is they believe the open carry ban did not go far enough because concealed carry is still allowed inside the

capitol. i did speak with the mayor of lansing. i asked what some of his biggest concerns are. take a listen to what he had to say. >> i totally believe it will be people who come out and peacefully protest. that's what we expect. there could be some. some few who try and make it turn violent or take actions that they shouldn't and that instance we'll be ready. i'm always hopeful. hopeful but prepared. >> reporter: armed demonstrate strarts are expected here on sunday. the mayor is hearing some militia are coming. you see the michigan state police presence i was just talking about there. one question that is still outstanding is what happens to lawmakers in this building because on sunday the capitol will be closed but next week both the house and the senate will be in session. it's still up in the air how they will proceed with that considering the safety concerns.

chuck. >> you stay safe. that crew of ours also, please, make sure you guys stay safe and thank you. joined now by michigan's attorney general who issued this stark warning earlier this week. quote, my job is not to provide state employees and residents other other visitors the our capitol with a false sense of security especially given the state of affair around our nation. the michigan capitol is not safe. well, the attorney general joins me now and look, those weres you put in your own message there, that's not something you want to say every day and you didn't want to give false sense of security. do you feel better today about security than you did yesterday? >> i think we'll be fine this weekend when the capitol building is closed. there's going to be a very heavy police presence and there's going to be a coordinated effort

between national guard, michigan state police, local law enforcements, federal authorities. i feel fairly comfortable this weekend but what about, as you suggested, next week when, at this point, as far as i know, the legislature remains scheduled to meet pursuant to our open meetings act, it has to be open the public. you don't have metal detectors. you will allow people to be walking in. they could be wearing a coat with multiple weapons, bags, explosive devices. it's not a safe set of circumstances. we have to do better to protect the seat of government here in the state of michigan. >> obviously the u.s. government would worry about those monitor and fears that al qaeda had representatives or cells in order to act.

you have these malitias in the state of michigan that are viewed as a domestic terrorist threat. this has been a challenge for the state of michigan for years. is there a new posture you and the federal government should be taking with these malitias now? >> absolutely. i think there has to be aggressive, concerted efforts where the feds and the state are working together to ensure these groups don't act on what we know are the incredibly strong anti-government sentiments. i think it's very important that republicans in our state and nationally understand these aren't anti-democratic groups. i mean the democratic party. they are anti-government. i think that's been for a long time. that's why i think so many republican elected officials

have felt free to really consert -- consort with these members. you'll have people of great importance in our state. state representatives and people in congress and they'll be at an event with malitia members that are hanging in effigy of the governor and patrolling with their weapons and they'll be all talking in this anti-government language and i think it's only emboldened these malitia members who take pictures with those officials. they are not held to account. they have felt as if they are supported by members of the government. we had a state rep in our incoming co-chair of the michigan republican party openly talk about a civil war. that's a very dangerous set of

circumstances. >> i imagine you've probably reached out privately to some republicans in the state legislature that you assume don't think that way. that aren't -- that are probably embarrassed by this but haven't spoken out. what do they tell you as the reason they don't speak out and denounce this relationship? >> well, first many republicans are scared. i have had republicans in the state legislature reach out and say that they are very -- they're not comforted and that they are so concerned about their own safety but i truly believe that you have the large contingency that feels beholden to this far right trump supporting element of the republican party because they still form, i would say half, of the membership right now. they very afraid if they turn against them then that will be it for them and their political careers will be over. i guess my message to them is this so much more than your

personal political career. we're talking about the future of our nation right now. you want to be on the right side of history in terms of efforts to preserve democracy. if i could just say this one i think, i was appalled. i was flabbergasted to learn that the republican attorneys general association was actually involved in terms these events happening and getting people there. that's the top law enforcement officials of half the states in the country and we had an attorney general from texas who actually there at the event helping to promote this insurrection and the same people who tried to overturn the election results in my state and in three other states p these are the top law enforce m officials of their state. this element will feel supported in terms of overthroeing the government because they have seemingly who are high level officials and part of the law enforcement community supporting

them. >> it doesn't sound like you said you don't believe the michigan capitol is safe. doesn't sound like you think the michigan capitol will be safe for some time. perhaps until, whatever happens inside the republican party they figure out how to repudiate this virus. >> i think if you put in metal detectors, that would be a start. that's what they do in every single courthouse in this state and many other government buildings, including all the federal government buildings. alexander graham bell invented the first metal detector in 1881. i don't think it's such a stretch and impugn on people's rights to have to walk through a metal detector. we're at this place right now even that's too much. that's too much of an infringements on people's rights and people are just not being smart about it. it's crazy.

>> you also have the right to govern and feel safe when you govern. people may want to have the freedom to carry a gun, i'd like to have the freedom to not feel threatened. i'm sure you feel the same way. michigan attorney general, thank you for coming on and sharing your perspective with us. >> thanks for having me. up next, too many people in this country are getting their information from unreliable sources. it's quite a few people doing it just for profit. you know who i'm talking about it. the information crisis that has brought us to this dangerous crisis point. be sure to watch ali velshi this weekend. he will have an in-depth look at this moment in american history. watch velshi, attack on democracy. special edition tomorrow and sunday at 8:00 a.m. eastern only on msnbc. but the right pad can. only always ultra thins have rapiddry technology and, they absorb 40% faster. the gush happens fast.

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welcome back. it's the threat of more political violence hangs over the country and law enforcement are trying to reach a better understanding and what exactly they are planning. there's a lot to unpack. this is a group or maybe it's a lot of groups that are -- there's believers of internet conspiracies like qanon, violent pro-trump groups, militant extremists that are armed with plans, anti-semites, white supremacists. it's a collection of group. in order to disrupt attacks this

country needs the take a real look at how so many different people got caught up. the systems of disinformation that led throw sands of pro-trump rioters to take drastic action as they did last wednesday. joining me is the research manager of the stanford internet observatory and expert of spead of disinformation. let's start with a basic question here. how much blame do you put on disinformation for the situation we're in right now? >> disinforms existed for centuries. how people find themselves in community where wrong information is all they are hearing. he was talk about people who have been hearing for months that the election was stolen. there are certain ways people

their information now. it's not only from broadcast media like television or radio. it's also kind of peer to peer content that's shared within social communities. what happens to some groups of people is they find their way into spaces where there is no kind of differentiation around discussing the content they see. they see over and over again content that's been telling them that the election has been stolen and the content began to appear months before election night even. this is a very sustained repetitious process. it's not that somebody sees one meme on a facebook page and goes and storms a building. >> right. suddenly somebody thought i'm not seeing this once.

i'm seeing it everywhere. >> i don't think it was a bot campaign at all. this was a kind of normalize it. what's happened today is a lot of people hold that point of view and a lot of real people hold that point of view. we can't -- we can't write it off. we have to reckon with the fact there's a lot of very real people in communities who have been convinced over the last four years that there are deep state kabals that are working against their interest. there's a lot of people who are intentionally profiting off of conspiracy theories. perhaps they are making them up

out of whole cloth or know how to touch sort of political, call them some sort of mental zones. i don't want to call them erogenous zones. that's the word i was trying to avoid there. they know how to touch certain things. it's an intentional grift trying to fire people up knowing that it works. how much of that do you see and is there any way to regulate that? >> there's a lot of bad incentives on the way we're all surrounded by information all time. in order to compete for somebody's intention to put out scandalous or outrage induing dopimine content. they are compelled to share because they feel to tell the rest of their community the truth about this thing they have seen.

there's this class of grifters who are not necessarily pushing a product. sometimes there's a product but they are working as hard as they can to grow their audience so they can monetize the audience over time. >> is it akin to a cult? >> for some of them yeah. there's an entire sub reddit, message board, devoted to people who have lost family members. lost in the sense this is the only thing they talk about. they remove themselves from their prior friend groups. it's become an all consuming belief system for them. they then feel compelled to constantly talk about it but to

take actions that that they believe the decentralized prophet is asking them to take. >> i would spend hours with you on this topic because i believe this core infrastructure problem we have. the information pipes have been poisoned and we have to figure out how to clean it up. thank you for coming on. >> thank you. we have some breaking news. moments ago federal law enforcement officials held a briefing with reporters giving them an update on criminal cases. let's bring in pete williams who is just on the call and some of the numbers that i've seen trickle out of this are pretty astonishing so share with us, what have you learned? >> they said this was going to grow and so far it has. they say this is the u.s. attorney for the district of columbia, the acting u.s.

attorney who is in charge of this investigation. he says so far, 98 criminals on file. 75 investigations and he expects that to be about 300 by the end of the day. some cases the fbi says the people who have been arrested are cooperating with authorities and providing further information about who was involved and how this happened. secondly, the fbi said they are getting still this deluge of tips just this week according to stephen who is in charge of the washington field office for the fbi. the authorities have severed 140,000 photos and videos and he said even friends and family members are phoning in tips on their own family members being involved in here. now, couple of other things. number one, is there any

evidence that this was all coordinated, that it was planned in advance, that it was coordinated once they got inside the capitol. the u.s. attorney says there are bread crumbs leading to possible organization. perhaps communication among core groups and coordination within the capitol. figuring that out was a top priority for this investigation. was there command in control but he thinks it will take weeks, if not months to answer that. one other point i would make here, it was a state memorandum filed in arizona for the man with the horns and the fur on his hand. it said that, i'm going to quote from the deif he thinks memo. strong evidence, including his own words and actions a the capitol supports that the intent of the capitol rioters was to capture and assassinate election

officials within the u.s. government. it struck me that statement was a little standing by itself because he's not charged with doing any of that. there's nothing in the charging documents accusing hill of that or saying what his statements were just a moment ago it was said there's no evidence of kill or capture teams or assassination teams. you have the people committing the offense here, going to their home districts. there isn't the tightest coordination between the local attorney who files the charges. he said prosecutors may have had information not directly related to what we have.

it's either we have to evidence or the prosecutors in arizona was making statement that isn't supportive of what they know back here. tlrs things we can see for our own eyes with people going in with handcuffs and the plastic ties suggest something. for now, they have no solid evidence that was the intent. >> is this going to stay with the u.s. attorney here in d.c. this feels like this is growing so big. feels like it needs a special task force. would that surprise you if that happens in the next couple of days. >> there is a task force to gather evidence. there is a task force in the fbi and u.s. attorney's office. these charges have to be filed in the district in which the offense was committed. they have to all be trial here. it's only logical the u.s. attorney would maintain the control. >> that is a very suddenly large

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harris yesterday for the first time since they met at a debate and he offered to congratulate her and offered any assistance with the upcoming inauguration. and president trump is expected to leave the white house for mar-a-lago on wednesday morning. but before biden is sworn in. so he can make his exit while still commander in chief. joining me now is michael cruise and joshua johnson. michael, you know president trump's personality so well, joshua, you i think are one of the best chronic letters of sort of where we are. and as a country. and so i'll make you start there. where are we right now? >> i think we are in the kind of place in the country right now that makes us do what americans have done since the founding of this nation which is to is say who are we and what do we want

to be. this is one of those moments that i think has been brought about by won't of the big turning points where we're looking at ourselves and saying i don't know if this is who we're supposed to be. now president trump's campaign, the idea of making america great again, harkened back to the notion that this country is not what it should be for you and i can put it back. now we're talking about trying to get back to something else in this country, the kind of leadership that supporters of joe biden said that they want, which is a president which is a hell of a lot more boring than that has been and one where we can deal with the issues between us as americans person to person instead of militia to national guard. so this feels like one of those moments where we're just not sure who we're supposed to be. i mean i think more people are getting acquainted with the constitution than they have been. and it is scary, but it is also

one of those moments where we're admonished as americans whether in common sense by thomas paine or others to lean into this moment, not to fear the moment, maybe fear what could happen if we don't handle it well but that this is the kind of moment that america is literally made of, where we look at ourselves and say this is who we are, and i'll be part of making it so. >> yeah, and a reminder that citizenship, being a citizen is a job sometimes. and if you don't view it that way and you are passive, than somebody else could take that job away from you. michael, we had a poll briefing with our pollsters today and one of the quick top lines they mentioned is donald trump is leaving office in better shape than the republican party and i immediately thought, boy, you spent a long time chronicling

donald trump's career going back to 1970. for every enterprise he engaged in, he always came out better than the organization, whether an airline, casino, and now a political party. >> the life of donald trump is marked by, defined by self inflicted crises. and this one is a doozy. this is on a different order of magnitude. but always he has this strange power to spin out of these self inflicted crises, he leaves in his wake wreckage. other people who are not him pay the price more than he does or more than he has. and i think that there is a difference between who we are supposed to be as a country and

who we are. in some respects i think the republican party is trying to figure this out. you see republican elected officials placing bets can which way are we going to go, are we going to be more toward the trump end or away from trump leaving him behind, diminished to the point of irrelevant and neutered. and that remains to be seen. but if trump's personal history is an indicator, i don't know that it will be as simple as donald trump leaves and goes to mar-a-lago and we as the can united states of america can simply move on. >> you know, joshua, in one of the things when i've tried to find empathy for donald trump the human being, it is pretty clear to me this is an extraordinarily lonely man who is desperate for some sort of

adulation to replace something he never got. you know, i don't -- and i think what we ended up finding out, there is no one in his circle that seems to be able to penetrate that part of his personality, to get him to do the humane thing or the right thing. there is some part of him that is broken and somehow we're all suffering for it. >> we're suffering for it. i think what we can do though is accept the brokenness that he has caused and that we're dealing with. i mean, we're dealing with a pandemic for example that has killed millions of people in the matter of a year, a country broken ready to sow its way into the new administration. but regardless of trump, i think that we will to deal with each other's brokenness to start 2021. 2020 has left a lot of broken pieces. somehow we'll have to find a way to either mend them or let them go and focus on 2021 and leave

donald trump to the history books. >> michael, very quickly, is it even worth us pursuing how broken trump is anymore? >> we'll be reckoning with that and its implications for as long as we're alive. his brokenness has influenced the country clearly needless to say in profound ways, so it is imperative to try to continue to understand this and so that we can sort it out and, you know, for better or for worse, he is one of the more consequential people in the modern history of the united states of america and of the world. so we cannot just simply leave him behind and ignore him and the ramifications are -- it borders on malpractice, it is irresponsible to me. >> i will tell you this, i went way over time because i want to get more of this conversation.

michael, joshua, you will get podcasts from me because we need a good 45 minutes on this topic. thank you. and be sure not to miss joshua saturday and sunday evenings right here on msnbc. we'll be back monday. sunday it is "meet the press." katy tur is next. i apologize, it was hard to cut them off, they were making such tremendous points. mang such tremendous points. it's so far. (young woman) don't worry about it, grandma! this will be fun. two chocolate milkshakes please. (grandmother) did you get his number? (young woman) no, grandma! grandma!! (grandmother) excuse me! (young woman vo) some relationships get better with time. that's why i got a crosstrek. (avo) 97 percent of subaru vehicles sold in the last ten years are still on the road. love. it's what makes subaru, subaru. get 0% for 63 months on select new 2021 models now through february 1st. instantly clear every day congestion with vicks sinex saline nasal mist.

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