good day to all of you from msnbc world headquarters here in new york.

welcome to "weekends with alex." we have more breaking news on the insurrection as well as this it's from "the new yorker" magazine. i want to take you right to the video and the chilling sights and sounds of those rioters in their own words. take a listen, everyone. [ yelling ] >> go, go, go! watch out. go! [ bleep ] [ bleep ] police! [ yelling ] [ metal clanking ] [ bleep ]

[ yelling ] >> go, go! whose house! whose house! [ bleep ] being controlled. [ indiscernible ] >> let the people in. [ beeping ] >> we love you guys. take it easy. [ yelling ]

[ chanting "treason" ] [ chanting "defend your constitution, defend your liberty" ] [ banging ] "chanting "1776"] >> guess what, america showed up! [ indiscernible yelling ] >> where the [ bleep ] are they?

it's a pr war. you have to understand -- we're better than that. >> information operation. there's got to be something in here that we can use against the scumbags. >> hey, yo, yeah! [ bleep ] where are they? >> while we're here, we might as well set up a government. >> hey, let's take a seat, people. -- nancy pelosi. where the [ bleep ] is nancy? this is our house. >> grab that chair. >> no, this is our chair. >> i agree with you, brother,

but it's not ours. it belongs to the vice president of the united states. >> thank you for allowing the united states of america to be reborn. thank you for allowing us to get rid of the communists, the globalists, and the traitors within our government. in holy name we pray. >> mobilize in your own cities, your own counties. storm your own cabinet buildings and take down every one of these [ bleep ]! >> we allowed this to happen. now we got to -- >> they steal our money. they lock us down and then they -- hang them! >> go to your counties, go to your cities, we're going to take these guys down. joining me distinguished research fellow at the foreign policy research institute and msnbc national security analyst, joyce vance as well, former u.s.

attorney, now law professor at the university of alabama and msnbc contributor. it's pretty stunning. clint, i'll let you go first here. when you watch this, you'll hear their thoughts speaking out loud in the heat of the moment urging people to go back to their states and cause chaos as if what they were doing in that moment wasn't enough. what goes through your mind? >> when i taught terrorism and counterterrorism we talked about the process of radicalization. this is exactly what we talked about a decade ago. except the context was though isis storming symbolic targets like the capitol, that they would go after democratic -- like the senate, that they would try and overturn our country or bring it to its knees from the inside out or they would create a mobilization rally. except now it's americans doing it to themselves. it is the president's supporters doing it to the institution. what i find remarkable is four

years ago when the new administration was coming in, there was a guy named steve bannon who was ans a over to the president. he would say things like we need to get rid of the globalists in the capitol. and if you listen to what that guy just said right there on that megaphone, it was almost a direct recitation of what we heard four years ago coming from a lot of the elected leaders and administrative leaders. these people have been radicalized. they've been told lies. they have an ideology which is to tear down the institution of our government. and yet we're kind of reacting to this. imagine how we reacted to an incident like this if it was al qaeda or isis. think what we did when just one single bomber tried to fly and detonate a bomb on an airplane heading into the united states and how we reacted to that. you also see in this video, which i think is important, and joyce will note this way better than me, is organization, you hear orders, you hear people giving commands. they say who they are looking

for, nancy pelosi, mike pence. they were looking for these two people. i would not have been shocked at all based on what they were just saying online that they have kidnapped or tried to murder either of those had they gotten to them. this is the kind of state we're at with these individuals. and so what you're seeing now is there was organization to this, there was some command and control. and then we start looking in terms of the investigation as people get arrested and they are interviewed and interrogated. i think a lot more is going to come out to find out that this wasn't just a happening and a random group of people that happened at some level of the capitol, that this was their goal that day. >> and this is a new video that just came out this morning. do you think that the fbi is taking a very close down at it as well and using it in their investigation? >> what i find remarkable in all this, alex, is how much evidence is available. part of it is they can't influence why. they want to show off that they are doing these things. and i think there is fear of

what's going to happen this coming week, whether it's a state capitol or the nation's capitol. if they want to film themselves inside the capitol, if they want to do a selfie, whatever it is, this is the time to do it. that moment will pass really once the biden administration comes in. what i also find really remarkable is there's almost so much evidence. i bet the fbi and state and local law enforcement are overwhelmed with leads and data. i can't think of any one single moment where you would have so much intelligence and criminal evidence to use in a case. >> i believe it. at last count there were over 150,000 tips that had come in that they're combing through right now. joyce, does this go to motive? you listen to clint and he's talking about it. it seems very organized. could this lead to perhaps upgraded charges like sedition? >> that's really the goal here,

alex, because what we're seeing now is sort of a public safety tranche of prosecutions, people who law enforcement has identified as presenting an imminent danger in the next few days, people who are trying to acquire guns for the inauguration, for instance. those are the folks that we're seeing arrested in this moment. but it's still really incredibly important for law enforcement leaders to stay focused on the people who organized, who led, who funded the january 6th event. and the most important challenge that they'll face is figuring out what were they doing. was it limited to protected first amendment activity, limited to the rally on the ellipse? or was there from the beginning an agreement some form of a conspiracy or other intent to engage in what actually occurred? this effort to go to the capitol, to interfere with the smooth functioning of government, which is of course the crime of seditious conspiracy.

so this videotape and the other evidence like this is incredibly helpful to investigators in at least two ways. first now that you have this videotape you sit down with people who are in custody, maybe they're cooperating, maybe they're not, and you show them video of themselves inside of the hall of congress undoubtedly committing a crime caught, you know, dead dissenter. and you talk them through what was going on and in many ways you can get more information about some of the issues that clint identified. was there an organized conspiracy here? were they looking for the speaker? what did they intend to do if they find her? so the video is valuable in that sense. it's also incredibly valuable down the road at trial. there is nothing like being able to show a jury what actually happened. but here the jury is the american people. and i think ultimately this video and watching it and seeing actual images of the desecration inside of the people's house may

help to reach out to some people who have been alienated, who've been unreachable during the trump administration. and this may help us begin to have a more sensible national conversation about what all of this entails. >> veterans and police officers and white supremacists and other extremist groups. and in this insurrection. does secret service need to keep an eye on the military during the inauguration? >> i don't imagine so. i think this is going to be really well policed. and i can tell you just from people i know who are still in the military. this has been a sad week as they've discovered how many people in the ranks were participating in this, supporting this, advocating for this, sharing the videos in fact. and that goes also to some of the local and state law enforcement organizations where we at times have discovered dual

membership and a militia are an anti-government group in a way. we have a long way to go in the next two years. what we're seeing is the end of four years of politicization by the military and law enforcement by the president. he has said he is for them and against the other side. and he's played that all the way through his administration. now, it defies the logic test. why would he turn his own supporters on law enforcement? how frightening for those d.c. and capitol police that were around there with almost no gear when they were climbing the scaffolding. they're not even really well protected. and they know that people in this audience have guns. so i think there needs to be a logic test. what i do hope happens is that many people across both sides of the political aisle, across america, do see this video. because i think there is one thing to support our president and support his belief and even to buy into his conspiracies. but watching this happen, watching the storming of the u.s. capitol, the destruction of

our most trusted institutions and our pride and joy. this is a pillar of democracy for the whole world being stormed by its own citizens. that's what it looks like if you're from overseas. i'm hoping that that will cause a course correction in the population. i do think it's happening to a degree. you're seeing families call in with tips. you're seeing friends from social media turn in their fellow friends on social media. i'm hoping this changes. because many discounted that something like this would ever happen. >> there are of course several people now charged, joyce. but many of them were saying they acted on president trump's direction. could this hold up as a defense for them? and then, subsequently, could their testimony be used against trump perhaps at an impeachment trial? could he face criminal prosecution down the road as citizen trump? >> so, all really good questions. we're talking about a pretty wide range of crimes. but i'll paint with a little bit

of a broad brush here and say that when we're talking about offenses like restricted entry violation, which is sort of a federalized trespassing. it's unlawful to be inside of the capitol building without permission. just your simple presence there is a misdemeanor. depending on what else you do, it can be a bumped up sort of crime. and the crimes sort of take off from there. now saying that the president invited you in would be, i suppose, a defense of sorts if it was true. but of course congress is not something that the president has jurisdiction over, and he doesn't technically have the ability to invite people in. so there are all of these sort of personified legal implications of these sorts of arguments, ultimately, not much of a defense. the really interesting question here is whether the president ultimately will get prosecuted for some form of seditious conspiracy, inciting a riot, soliciting people to engage in acts of violence. and most of those crimes require

that he have intended those outcomes to take place. so while people saying that they thought the president was calling them to arms gets the government partway there, the government will need more, and it will have to examine very carefully the president's conversations with those around him to determine whether or not there's just an additional bit of evidence that helps the government establish what the president intended. you know, it's a really serious thing to prosecute a president. unfortunately, trump has made that common everyday conversation during his four years, because, as james carvil said earlier in your show, he really is a career criminal in some ways. but it's still serious business to look at a seditious conspiracy prosecution. and although it's clear that at least for impeachment purposes he abused trust, he should be convicted by the senate for violating all of the oaths and obligations of a president, that criminal conviction question is still a little bit further out there and will require more work

by law enforcement. >> one last quick question to you, clint. and i know you talked about the fact that you have family and friends that are turning in those that they see on these terrible videotapes. how long do you think the fallout from this is going to last? i know you've made comments about a new civil war. do you think america is locked into a season of insurrection going forward? >> i think there are a couple things that dampen the chances of it in the near term. but it really depends on president trump. how he behaves after inauguration will set the tone for how this will go. if he goes away and sort of stays quiet, i don't expect that he'll be completely quiet, but doesn't point people to mobilize, which has been the consistent trend in the last three months. but i believe these people will not go back once they have a taste of the violence and the mobilization. there's very little reason to believe that they would move in

reverse. because in their small circles they are heroes today. it may be hard to believe, but they were promoting themselves being here because they wanted to show everybody else that they had done what others wouldn't do. and so looking into the summer, the one thing that we can in some ways as a silver lining of the pandemic is we don't have large targets right now or mass gatherings of people. we don't have people at government facilities in the same numbers we have in the past. but that will end, and i'm worried that what we see in the domestic terrorism scene looks a lot like the 1990s where you have eric rudolph or a timothy mcveigh, someone who's a part of one of these movements, move to a target and use mass shooting or a bombing. and we've seen that a plot like this was about to unfold in michigan a few months ago. so we shouldn't be surprised if something like this were to happen. i just hope the fbi gets the resources they need along with homeland security to keep pace. but we need to resource them and help them get there. >> i'll tell you, identifying

them as heroes i find to be an absolutely stunning thing. but i know there are those who believe that. but in my book they're anything but. wonderful talking with both of you. the nation's capitol is on lockdown as cities brace for potential protest ahead of the inauguration. first we are getting some new reaction to all of this dramatic video we have been showing you from the capitol hill riots. here's part of my conversation with senator ben cardin. >> when i see them in front of my desk in this incredibly sacred place what, they're doing, the insurrection becomes even more personal and even more clear. there is no question that they had the opportunity to engage a member of congress, god knows what would have happened. but clearly they were attempting to overthrow our government. this is an insurrection. >> of course it all comes as the president with less than three days in office is bracing for

the second impeachment trial of his presidency. one of the impeachment managers congressman madeleine dean, spoke with my colleague ali velshi. >> if we don't do this, what does that say to future leaders, would-be leaders, that at the end of your term when you know you're headed out of office, you can go on a crime spree, and the house and the senate will not hold you accountable? this is for accountability. this is for deterrence. this is for history. also to prevent this president from ever holding office again. >> from that pennsylvania lawmaker now to michigan where armed protesters are already gathering at the state capitol there. let's go back to msnbc's dasha burns in lansing. okay, there were a number of people milling about. how about right now? >> reporter: hey, alex. since you last spoke to us, the situation has already changed. as you can see here, a lot of folks have left. the situation's really died down.

that heavier contingent, the more armed contingent that we believe to be the boogaloo boys, they have left the area. there are still some folks here milling about, some flags being waved. there are still a few armed individuals here. you can see the gentleman in the american flag mask there carrying a long gun and some magazines there on his vest. but, largely, peaceful, largely calm right now. this is not new to michigan. what is different is that some of the groups who have typically shown some of these groups here, they are not here. all the contacts that i reached out to said they are -- >> h-mmm. >> they are concerned that they didn't know the origin of these

calls to protest. they were worried that -- >> yeah, dasha, we're having -- >> who had planned to be here. >> i'm sorry. we had a little bit of bumping in and out with your audio. we get the gist of it though, things have changed in the last hour. and the weather is not great, so that may have inspired some folks to leave and get home to warmer weather as well. but you can't go anywhere, you're going to stay right where you are. congressman ted lee with response to that new video. plus, how to get more republicans on board for impeachment. impeachment. hi mr. charles, we made you dinner. ahh, thank you! ready to eat? yes i am! go pro at subway® for double the protein on any footlong. or on any new protein bowl! so many ways to go pro at subway®!

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our nation's capitol is under a heavy blanket of security as authorities are bracing for wednesday's inauguration. let's go to nbc's vaughn hillyard of what it's like there today. >> so far we are looking at a pretty quiet washington d.c.

and with the perimeter that has been set up, the extensive perimeter, not just over here at the capitol, but stretching from the white house to the western part all the way over towards the lincoln memorial, this is the site here on what is usually a busy thoroughfare, but we closed down to traffic. there's now 15,000 national guardsmen here across washington d.c. there are several layers between the general public, which is where we are standing right now in between the u.s. capitol. but i want to let you listen to dr. mayor muriel bowser on "meet the press" this morning with chuck todd. >> i'm not only concerned about other state capitols. i'm also concerned about other parts of washington d.c. what you're seeing is really the federal enclave of washington, d.c., not where the 700,000 of

us live. so our police department working with our federal law enforcement partners and the united states army, quite frankly, also has a plan to pivot if we have any attacks in our neighborhoods. >> so far this weekend, there have been two arrests. one young man who had an unlicensed firearm and had 500 rounds of ammunition. and a woman saying she was part of a presidential administration. she has been checked into a hospital for evaluation. again, those are the only two arrests that we have seen that we are aware of. here in washington, d.c. over the weekend related to security concerns here around the inauguration. and, alex, we are now less than 72 hours until joe biden takes his oath of office and we should note as is tradition since late

1881 it's been tradition to take that oath outside. and the president-elect says he intends to do just that this wednesday. >> thank you very much, my friend. three days left in the trump presidency, and the senate is preparing for a second impeachment trial. some house impeachment managers today making the case for why trump must be convicted. >> the vast majority of the american people reject armed insurrection and violence as a new way of doing business in america. we're not going to do that. >> this is for accountability. this is for deterrence. this is for history. also to prevent this president from ever holding office again. >> but a freshman republican congressman pushing back today. >> even though you think the president is guilty as hell, there has to be due process,

there has to be an investigation. we have to go, even if it's through a special committee or judiciary, those things needed to happen in order for impeachment really. i think you would have gotten more republicans on board if it were done with due process, with an investigation. >> joining me now california congressman ted lieu, and an impeachment manager for president trump's pending senate trial. congressman, welcome. your reaction to congressman mace there when there's talking about needing to be an investigation. when there's so much on tape, when the evidence is overwhelming, when you have 150,000 plus tips that are coming into the fbi, much of which i presume could also be put into these four different house committees that are looking into what exactly happened. how much more evidence do you need? how much more investigation do you need? >> thank you, alex, for your question. i can't say any better than the number three house republican

liz cheney who said that donald trump summoned this mob, assembled a mob, and lit the flame of this attack. it's all captured on videotape, which is one reason that we've already seen a number of arrests, a number of people who have been charged because these prosecutors are looking at the same thing we're all looking at, which is actual evidence in broad daylight. and that's why the house in a bipartisan manner impeached donald trump that's similar to indictment, a charging document. and now we present the case before the u.s. senate in a trial. >> with 17 republicans needed by democrats to reach the two-thirds vote to convict the president, do you have any indication that republicans in the upper chamber are open to convicting donald trump? what is the argument that you plan to make? to anyone who could be on the fence? >> so, january 6th there was a violent attack on the capitol resulting in multiple deaths

that was incited by donald trump. the american people were watching crimes unfold in realtime. and with every passing day we get additional new videos that show it was even worse than we thought on january 6th. and the video that msnbc just showed, you hear these democrats terrorists say things such as, f-u police, except they used the actual four letter word. and "we are listening to trump." there is a trove of evidence that shows that donald trump incited this violent attack on the capitol, and resulted in multiple deaths. >> so this video that we're showing and we're seeing it to the left of the screen when we go back to our split screen here, it is absolutely stunning. i should say that my executive producer and i and other colleagues, we were watching it as it came in today. it was breathtaking to watch,

actually, and tragic. is this the kind of thing that you will show your fellow colleagues as an impeachment manager to try to make your case? and what would possibly be the argument against impeachment and associating donald trump with this video? >> as a former prosecutor, i know that we never disclose our strategy in public. what i want to say is we will present the truth and our goal is to secure a conviction. and by the time the trial starts, i will guarantee you every senator would've already seen this video because it's showing a crime scene in the jury room. this is where the trial is going to take place. and you can bet that the senators are very aware that these domestic terrorists attacked the capitol and that they were hunting for legislators. one of them clearly says nancy. this group of terrorists, they killed a police officer, injured dozens more. imagine if they got their hands on a u.s. senator or on speaker

pelosi or on vice president pence who they wanted to hang, what they would have done to those folks. >> it's unthinkable. and there is actually in that video another scene where the rioters are rifling through documents that are there and saying, crews would want us to do this, referring obviously to senator ted cruz. but let me play for you what republican senator lindsey graham had to say today about the capitol riot. >> here's the problem. eends what happened on january the 6th was one of the low points in my time in office. it was horrendous to see people come and take over the capitol, the house and the senate, beat officers, defile the seat of government. how in the hell could that happen? where was nancy pelosi? it's her job to provide capitol security. we'll get to the bottom of that. >> what's your response to that? >> it is a job of the sergeant

of arms to provide security on the senate side. they have sergeant arms on the house side. they have one too. both of those folks are no longer there because of the failure of leadership. so, i don't really know why that senator is somehow accusing speaker pelosi who these domestic terrorists were hunting for. they were trying to assassinate her. and so we're going to do an investigation of what the failures were in terms of law enforcement that day. but we can't just pretend january 6th didn't happen. we can't just ignore this and not have accountability. in order to have healing you have to have justice and accountability first. that's what's going to happen at the senate trial. >> can you give us a sense of who some of the potential witnesses might be, those that you the impeachment managers would call on? >> so, again, i'm not going to disclose trial strategy. all i'm going to say is there is a mountain of evidence that the american public saw in broad daylight. with every passing day we get

additional videos, additional incriminating statements. and the department of justice when you look at how they are charging people, they use terms like insurrectionists. they're essentially viewing this case the same way we are and most american people are. this was an armed insurrection, a violent attack on our nation's capitol to stop congress from formalizing donald trump's defeat and it resulted in multiple deaths. >> california congressman, ted lieu, always a pleasure, my friend. thank you so much. well, one trump is about to leave office, but is there another waiting in the wings? and which one that might be. what a new report says, next. oi, not what's easy. so when a hailstorm hit, usaa reached out before he could even inspect the damage. that's how you do it right. usaa insurance is made just the way martin's family needs it with hassle-free claims, he got paid before his neighbor even got started.

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breaking news to share. kremlin critic alexey navalny was released moments after returning to moscow today. he was detained for parole violations and for a suspended prison sentence. he now remains in custody until a court hearing.

navalny spent five months in germany recovering from a nerve agent attack that he blames on putin's regime. back to the u.s. new reporting that the president's allies have collected tens of thousands of dollars from people seeking pardons. nbc's josh letterman is in washington for us. josh, another welcome to you. so what's going on at the white house, and who's involved in these deals? >> some names that you might know like rudy giuliani and former trump attorney john dowd and other names that you probably don't know like lobbyists and former trump campaign aides. what they have in common, alex, all according to the "new york times" reporting have been essentially peddling their access to president trump and influence with him, two convicted felons who are seeking a pardon, not through the normal channels through a justice department review, but instead by trying to go directly to the big guy to president trump who has just a few days left to grant commutations and pardons

before he leaves office. nbc news hasn't independently confirmed this "new york times" reporting, but we are reporting at nbc news that the president is considering in these final few days other potential uses of his pardon power, including potentially preemptively pardoning members of his family or even himself. and in these final days, president trump also now struggling to put together a legal defense team to respond to the impeachment allegations that congressman ted lieu was just discussing with you, alex. and while the white house actual spokesman for president trump and his campaign tweeted overnight that they still do not yet have a legal team that they have decided on. our sources are telling us that among those who may end up being involved in that effort are rudy giuliani as well as some of the president's key allies in congress such as republicans meat gaetz and jim jordan. >> family preemptive pardons would actually be quite convenient, given the next topic

we're going to -- thank you josh letterman for that. there is a new report that says the insurrection and president trump's historic second impeachment is not dampening the political ambitions of the trump family. "politico" reports ivanka trump's political future is actually coming into sharper focus and that mario rubio is the one who should be concerned. joining me now is one of three journalists on this story for "politico." first off, does this strike you as just utterly tone-deaf? >> no, not really, to be honest. i think you have to look at it in two contexts. one is sort of the larger political context in which obviously there's immense amount of backlash towards donald trump for his actions on january 6th and for how he's conducted his business after the election. but there's another context which is narrower, which is republican party politics. and within republican party politics, the trump brand, while somewhat diminished, is still

the premier brand for the gop. and so, to the degree that it transfers to his children, that is an added benefit at this juncture, even with all of the drama that we've experienced over the past couple weeks, even with the second impeachment, even with the trial that is forthcoming in the senate. now, trump himself has hinted that he's interested in running for office in 2024. obviously the trial might affect that. but his kids also have political ambitions, too. and from everything that we've gathered from our reporting over the past couple weeks, those have not changed. in fact, they're looking more seriously at the prospect of running for higher office. >> okay. talk about which kid wants to go where in the family? >> so the realist aspiration at this juncture is laura trump, who is a native of north carolina. there is an open senate seat there. she has had talks with people

about running. she is being encouraged to run there. authors that we've talked to nationally say it is very real the idea that she might run. there's also been a lot of chatter around don jr. don jr., probably the most public-facing political operative among trump's kids, he really took on a huge maga personality during his father's presidency, briefly looked at the prospects of running for senate in wyoming where he spends a lot of time. and there's some open question about what he will do with his brand and popularity going forward. and then the most intriguing of them all or the one that is coming into sharper focus is ivanka trump. she and her husband jared kushner are set to move to miami after the presidency ends. and there is work happening behind the scenes that she's not involved with, but serious republican operatives and financeiers who are laying the

groundwork trying to convince her to rub for office, senate campaign fence marco rubio in the primary. and if she wins for the general seat for the election in florida. >> what is it about the trump families marco rubio dislike? >> his voting record is extremely conservative. he has been a supporter of donald trump. there is a perception of him within trump world that he is wishy-washy with his supports for the president. he did vote to certify the election for joe biden, which, if you're in, like, the real bowels of trump land, if you're in the inner sanctum, that is treacherous. ands there always been this sort of agitation i think that a lot of trump people have towards rubio to the primary campaign in 2016 and this perception that he's more an establishment

figure where is trump is not. a lot of other republicans we've talked to brought up there's not much place to maneuver, not much space to maneuver. marco rubio doesn't have the type of vulnerabilities that other republicans may towards the trump challenge. >> it is an extraordinary article, ivanka's political future comes into sharper focus. thank you for talking to us about it. are we seeing a shakespearean end to the final hours of the trump presidency? the answer to that, next. try boost® high protein... -with 20 grams of protein for muscle health- -versus only 16 grams in ensure® high protein. and now enjoy boost® high protein in café mocha flavor. (naj) at fisher investments, we do things differently and other money managers don't understand why. (money manager) because our way works great for us! (naj) but not for your clients. that's why we're a fiduciary, obligated to put clients first.

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this break news just moments ago, the fbi released these pictures of the men wanted for assaulting d.c. officers during the capitol riot. one officer says he heard members chanting, quote, kill him with his own gun. contact the fbi if you recognize in iof these men. in less than 72 hours donald trump will officially be a former president of the united states. but the impact of his administration could last for years. a new article in "politico" maz today asks one big question, what will trump's presidency mean to history? joining me right now we have jeffrey wilson, who is the author of the book "shakespeare and trump." he is a lecturer at harvard university in the writing program. and washington anchor for bbc news and an msnbc contributor. welcome to you both. we'll go ladies first, with you,

catty. what do you think will be remembered about the trump presidency? >> look, it has to be one of the most extraordinary presidencies in the united states. this was a man who threw the political rule book out of the window and in the beginning seemed to have some success in doing so. but by the end of his presidency, the chaos in america, the mishandling of the coronavirus epidemic, the economic crisis that accompanied that. and then of course the last two weeks. i think it'll be the storming of the united states capitol and the first sentence next to his political will be donald trump, the only american president ever to have been impeached twice. that's how the world will remember him. >> do you think, katty, or i guess the question is when will we fully know what this trump presidency was. do we already know most of it? >> i guess the question is how

long-lasting the impacts of trump and trumpism are. that's what we don't know yet, alex. and i guess that's what the storming of the capitol raises a lot of questions about. is this just donald trump? or are the millions of people who still believe the election was stolen who still follow donald trump, do they somehow have a lasting impact on american politics that upends everything, that splits the republican party potentially, that gives enormous power to these social media groups and online conspiracy theories that was fed by donald trump. i think that's the question we don't know. does it die with donald trump at some point, or does it carry on and has it fractured permanently the status quo in the united states? >> that absolutely is the question. but i have another for you, jeffrey, because your book, you write how there are shakespearean aspects to trump's presidency. explain what you mean by that. >> first of all, alex, thanks for giving me a little corner of your sunday to the arts and

humanities. >> of course. >> trump's america is a tragedy. and it's no wonder people keep on turning to shake peer. so from richard iii to julius caesar and king analogies are i and frankly sometimes a little bit obnoxious. but i also try to push through that and ask why shakespeare keeps coming up a 400-year-old playwright obsessed with monarchy shouldn't be coming up. i think the real answer is we have been living through times of tragedy. the thesis of shakespearean tragedy is when power is centralized on the top the state hangs on the fragile emotions of fragile men, and bad government

amplifies routine individual moral failings and to catastrophic social suffering, death, and the down fall of dynasties. i wish i had a happier message for for you here on this sunday afternoon but as shakespeare writes, the weight of these sad times, we must obey. >> indeed. here's how i was turned on to you. you were quoted in peter baker's article in the "new york times" saying if there are analogies between classic literature and vaetu that should give us cause for concern. we are approaching the end of the play here, and that's where catastrophe always comes. do you think what we have seen unfold these past couple of pooeks, is that what you were imagining happening when you said this. yeah, i mean it's just the latest example of something that tells like it was pulled out of these shakespearean tragedies that we read in english classes. i'm just so, you know,

overwhelmed by the sadness and exhaustion of it all, after four years of trump, after one year of coronavirus, you know, friends, and family, everyone is just so tired. and i know -- i guess i will kind of speak to a couple people i will speak to. to my children. first of all, hi, i love you. second, you know, i'm just so sorry that this is the world that we are leaving to you and that we should have done better. and then second i will speak to joe biden. you know, if you want to restore the whole of america, start promoting those things that help us speak and talk to each other, public school, the arts and humidities, that's where america issing gob processing the trauma of these trump years. >> you make a good point about the arts and humanities for sure. >> given your affiliation with the bbc and all, on a global

scale how long do you think it is going to take america to rebuild its reputation? >> that's a really good question. the events of the last couple of weeks have given huge sucker to america's adversaries. donald trump and the riots in the capitol gave them unnecessarily a weapon with which to beat the united states. i have made a point over the last two weeks of speaking to people in beijing, in tehran n moscow. and the message is the same, that america's standing is diminished. this gives them a way to say america can't lecture to the world about democracy or the american system itself of democracy is flawed and weaken and we have a better system. i am also concerned about america's allies, that was a trust definite fit in the united states that built up over the course of trump's presidency. even though it is no secret a lot of america's allies are happy to see joe biden elected and coming in, i am still hearing from european diplomats,

leaders well, this could happen again. and in a more fundamental level the events of the last couple of weeks have shown america's allies that it is about donald trump, and it's also about fractures in american society, racial inequality. income inequality, these huge angry groups in the country. that make's america's allies nervous about trusting the united states. i think that is going to take some time to heal. one thing that could help is a law enforcement crackdown. i think if america's institutions responded ferociously to what happened, both in the short time by exerting judicial consequences for those that took part in this, but also in the long term by addressing the caws of this, then i think that would show that america's institutions survived, are strong and stable, and that america is prepared to defend democracy. so there is a lot of attention

being paid to the consequences for the people that took part in this and incited this. >> i am always glad to have you on as a contributor. i love watching your bbc show with the news. and jeffrey, thank you for the book, shakespeare and trump. it was terrific going through it. thank you both for your time with me today. trump allies reportedly seeking money from people seeking pardons. e seeking pardons. [ thunder rumbles ] [ engine rumbling ] ♪♪ [ beeping ] [ engine revs ] ♪♪ uh, you know there's a 30-minute limit, right? tell that to the rain.

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get off the floor with aerotrainer. go to aerotrainer.com to get yours now. good afternoon, everybody. i'm yasmin vossoughian coming to you live from washington, d.c. you can see the capitol dome over my shoulder as i speak. i was on the ground there on january 6th during the capitol hill riots. it is hard to overstate how much things changed since then. this is literally a city on lockdown right now. an arrest was made a short time ago not far from where i am standing, the second this weekend from a check point. we will get a live report on that in a couple of minutes. we also have this new look at the riot itself. >> guess what? america showed up!