"way too early" with us on this tuesday. "morning joe" starts right now. . >> we're signing a health care plan within two weeks. a full and complete health care plan >> we're going to be introducing a tremendous health care plan hopefully prior to the end of the month. it's just about completed now. . >> a major executive order requiring health care companies to provide. >> he told us it would come in three weeks. . >> i have it already. . >> the president will be laying out additional health care steps in the coming i would say two weeks. >> this is all very exciting. no, this is all very exciting. since barack obama started talking about obamacare, republicans have not put forward a single health care plan as a party. >> right.

>> so there has been no effort until this president. and we just heard those assurances hat health care plan, it's coming out in two weeks. so, mika, today, it must be today. i know you were saying but what is joe's bigger point here. willie is thinking that. . >> no. . >> what's joe's bigger point? . >> oh, great. . >> this is like all the conspiracy theories. the world is coming to an end next week. and then it doesn't come to an end. and then something else is happening next week. a good friend of ours has a friend who is caught up in all the conspiracy theories and now the new conspiracy theory is joe biden is going to move back to delaware on the 2021 of january and he's going to basically turn the government over to aoc and

everybody. and there are educated people who believe this. there are former elected officials of large cities who believe this. and they're always made a fool of. because these conspiracy theories never come true. that was donald trump's whole presidency. there is an incredible talking about the evangelicals. the evangelical community is split in half because people believed the lies for four months. only now are they waking up to realizes they have been lied to by someone they set up as an idol. these lies, it's not a bug. it's the feature of the trump presidency, mika.

again, in the light of day, proven to be lies. . >> yeah. absolutely zero health care plan. good morning and welcome to "morning joe". it is tuesday, january 19th. along with joe, willie and me, we have white house reporter for "the associated press", jonathan lemire. and columnist and associated editor of the "washington post" and msnbc analyst, eugene robinson. . >> willie, there was a column this weekend. i'm not sure who it was. maybe you can remind me of someone saying how hue had mill kwraeuting it was to be a trump follower, qanon follower because your entire life is telling people of a cataclysmic event, and it never comes. and you're humiliated. then you have to talk about the next end of the world moment, and those never come as well.

that was donald trump's policy. >> it was ben. there are dates circled on the calendar. january 6th was one of them. january 20th, tomorrow, the inauguration, the next one, when the political and cultural rap sure is supposed to happen. then it didn't. and a new tate is kicked town the road. you would think some people might catch on. the health care plan that was never going to be there. and the wall is the most glaring example of what you are going to talk about. that was the basis of his whole campaign. he was going to build that wall. it started when he came down the elevator. he will leave tomorrow on 12 to 15 miles of wall on a 2,000 mile

wall. >> on a wall they can walk over. >> promises made, promises kept. he signed his name to a piece of the wall. it was all a big branding exercise. by and large to get him into office it worked. >> gene, we have lived our entire adult lives, gene, you and i and most other people watching this show, understanding that politicians make promises and they break those promises, they are held into account. i remember barack obama said in 2009 i think if you want your doctor you can keep your doctor. that ended up not being true. republicans pounded him for that. in all cases republicans pounded

him on that for 11 years. donald trump has lied repeatedly. he said he was not only going to pay off the deficit, federal debt, promised universal health care for everybody, he promised he was going to build a wall in mexico. i could go on. but he lies to them every week. and it's not like, oh, you're just saying that because you're a conservative, joe, but you're in msnbc. no. we've got the videotape. we've got the videotape, gene. and they've got the videotape. but i guess this is what it's like being in a cult. >> that's what it looks like to me. look, maybe that health care plan is coming tomorrow, a big sendoff, right? maybe that's what he is going to announce. but i kind of doubt it. he never intended to put out a

health care plan. not in two weeks. not in two years. not in 200 years. and it was lie after lie after lie after lie. and we have chronicled those lies, right? we heard them in realtime and said this is not going to happen. again, the people who wanted to believe it, believed it. and they went seamlessly to the next lie. and that is difficult to understand. it is difficult to understand the degree of alienation. and it's really alienation from reality that causes this sort of blind, liberally blind, deaf, dumb and blind allegiance to a liar, to a politician, to a man who lies the the way other people breathe. you have to know that because

you have experienced it over and over again. yet people kept coming back. and some people continue to come back. now maybe they will see as time goes out. reality has to win out. reality has to win out over paranoid fantasy. it just has to. . >> that really depends if donald trump is a cult leaders, his followers have been facebook and twitter. they take him off of facebook and twitter, and disinformation falls 73%. does that have an impact? yes, that has an impact. the question is will facebook continue to propagate cult leaders on the right and i'm sure the left too. if you don't think this isn't going to happen on the left, you're a fool.

donald trump, listen, trumpism stays around for -- no, no. that's not the danger on the republic. the danger to the republish is the people on the right, people on the left, those in the center. people who believe in nothing have seen how easy it is to like break into american democracy and actually put it at risk. and they're thinking, you know, if donald trump weren't so stupid -- not me of course. i would never think that about any president. but if donald trump weren't so stupid he actually could have pulled this off, right? that's what they're thinking. so it is up to you. it is up to me, it is up to facebook, it is up to twitter, it is up to all of us to make sure this never happens again. yes, joe, you and mika were responsible because you had him on a lot in 2015.

guilty. awesome. does that make you feel better? fine. now focus with me if you will. because post-2015, facebook, and twitter and fox news and a lot of people carried that lie forward >> kept going. >> day in and day out. day in and day out. the consequences, devastating. by the way, over 400,000 of your americans dead. more people than were killed in world war ii. more people that were killed in world war i. i'm not good at math but more than seven times the number of people who died in vietnam have been killed by this virus that donald trump, in lying to you, ye old faithful member of the cult, said it was going to be one person coming in from china and then it was going to go away. >> and put some bleach in your arm. >> and a month later in michigan

he said it is going to be 15 people. it is going to be down to zero soon. we have done a very good job. then he started talking about putting bleach into your arm, uv lights, and hydroxycholoroquine. i don't know what you call it now. that ended up being a hoax, right? so here's the takeaway. don't think that was a one-time event. and don't think this is about somebody on the far right wing, okay, because donald trump isn't far right wing. he doesn't give a damn about ideology. that's what we have to be looking for in the future. jesus, it would be great if so many people who called themselves evangelical actually read the bible.

steve and i were roommates in congress. but if they actually read the bible, they would be jesus's warning, beware of false prophets. with all heads bowed, all eyes closed, beware of false prophets. jesus warned us about that too. if you are asking why is he talking about jesus so much? i'm not talking to you. i'm talking to the cult members at my church who powered president trump's speech over the last four years.

stop reading qanon sites and start reading the gospel and we will be all right. that's my mini sermon. >> i really like it. i would like to make a point to one thing you said and that is about twitter and facebook who just right now ad hoc decided to ban president trump. in twitter, disinformation is down 70 plus percent showing how damaging they had been letting him run rampant the last four years. banning trump is not the issue. they are not the people who can decide what can be out there and what can't. they are publishers. until you are recognized as one and act as one, you are part of the problem. it took you this long. it took you this long to even realize the damage that was

being promulgated and unfurled on your platforms. or you don't care. i don't know which is worse. >> we have jonathan lemire in his romper room. gene robinson. jonathan, you know, we talk. you actually report. why tonight you tell us what's happening this last day. and what time this morning, willie and i want to know, can we expect the sweeping health care reform package. because we have over/under 11:53 a.m. >> good morning. let's start by underscoring exactly that. this is the last full day of president trump's presidency. there is nothing on his schedule which of course has been the habit since election day with only a few exceptions. we are anticipating a wave of pardons and clemencies to come out likely later today.

could be tomorrow morning. we think that's on the agenda. but otherwise, there's no health care plan in the offing. this is a presidency built on lies from build the wall and the campaign. this is a president who won aide told me a long time ago to lie rather to not win the argument but the week. it would leave aides to clean up the mess. the lie he told most consistently in the last two and a half, three months was about the election being rigged. it was that lie so many rioters who stormed the capitol said it was it was what the president

said. the president inspired me to do this, to storm the capitol. still dealing with that. carefully watching the senate to see where mitch mcconnell may go. he will potentially bar him from every running again. this president is very concerned of his political relevancy and his ability to make money. he is slated to leave tomorrow morning. we know we will see him then. between now and then, we're not sure. in some ways, a fitting coda where he will stay out of sight and not do the basics of the job which includes governing during a page which claimed 400,000 of his fellow americans. god. >> he will skip town tomorrow morning before the inauguration. not going to attend the

inauguration. we have known that for some time. not only not going to be there, but not going to perform the most basic moment we have seen for years and years and years and year through administrations, which is to welcome the president and the first lady. the first lady won't be there to do that either. they will be met by the white house butler. pardons remain on the table. do we have a sense how big he will go, how many he will give, and how low he will go. >> willie, it is still being worked out. there was a meeting with the white house counsel's office. they are staying largely outside the doj channels. no firm decisions have been made. we can report, and others can as well, he is leaning against trying to self-pardon. leaning against issuing blanket pardons for family members or aides, ones that may not withstood legal challenging and

some were reluctant because it looks like it shows guilty. low-level drug offenders who will have their records expunged. we are expecting a mix of events, whether it be today or tomorrow. you're right, no welcome for the bidens. no ceremonial tea. biden will do a lot of duties on his own. he will journey with bush, obama, clinton to the tomb of the unknown and lay a wreath. to mass tomorrow morning at a church in washington not too far from the white house as a symbolic olive branch to all members of the government. and of course president trump will not be there at the west front of the capitol as joe biden takes the oath of offense under intense security. security challenges that we have

only seen a few times before in the history of the country. 1945 when franklin roosevelt took the oath of office amid world war ii. and abraham lincoln had to be snuck in on a train when he was sworn in on the dawn of the civil war. there's no moment, though, of national unit from our outgoing president. no touch of class. biden knows this idea of a lie. he knows that is one of the first tasks he has to grapple with. he has to repair how people both at home and abroad how people view the presidency and so that they can believe the word of the president again. >> the reason we are seeing that security is because of what happened on january 6th in the attack on the capitol. four members of the capitol police tell "the associated press" they were left to hang out to dry. one officer said we were on our own. other officers said they were given no warning by leadership

about the possibility of an attack, even though capitol police reportedly had intelligence three days prior that the capitol itself could be targeted. three percent telling the ap the police chief, who since resigned, was silent all afternoon. later turned out he was sheltering in place with vice president mike pence. the assistant chief, now interim chief, was heard on the radio telling officers to lock the building down, with no further instructions. and they had to improvise after being overrun by the mob. one cop ran from one side to the other fighting hand to hand. one spent three hours helping cops who had been immobilized by spray. three officers were able to handcuff one rioter. but a group swarmed that group

and took the arrested man away with the handcuffs still on, joe. this is something we have been seeing two weeks. with each passing day the events inside the capitol seemed to get worse with new information. >> and, willie, look at these pictures. let's go back to the pictures of these police officers being assaulted. yes, we saw a few who let people through the gates, willingly took pictures with them. they were the exception. this is what donald trump wanted. they blindly followed tkrufplt.

donald trump. these pictures. don't show me. i'm ugly enough. show the cops whose lives were on the line. these trump people killing cops, assaulting cops. willie, it's not extraordinary because we knew donald trump was a liar. it is extraordinary that supporters, a vast majority of supporters are liars. far from supporting men in blue, far from believing blue lives matter, they did a full-on assault in the name of donald trump. and that is donald trump's legacy. that is their legacy. and that's the legacy of a vast majority of donald trump

supporters. and those supporters who do not condemn him for this insurrection and do not condemn these rioters, because they are one and the same. >> there is no equivocating. they killed a police officer. they beat another police officer with an american flag with a flag pole. that man from ark harbg arrested. they tried to crush one man, an officer, inside a door. he has recovered, thank god. yes, spare us back the blue from this group that was up on capitol hill january 6th. and those police officers, the more we hear, were improvising inside. they shouldn't have had to improvise. intelligence knew this was coming. they should have been ready. the brave officers were letdown by their commanders, let down by their supervisors. that will not happen again tomorrow based on the show of force we have seen. let's bring in senior producer kate woodson. she and her colleague joy sharon

y i-reported from outside the capitol january 6th. we want to watch some of your video of what you witnessed when things quickly started getting out of control. let's watch. >> make sure you get my face and everything on your news channel. i want the enemy to know exactly who is coming after them. >> we all used to back the blue. but now you're oath breakers and we can't stand you. >>. >> get out of the house, [ bleep ]. >> people have climbed up and over the capitol wall. . >> now is your time. congress has already spoken. now is the time for them to hear us. come up here and tell them.

tell them yourself. make them afraid. >> what agency are you with? >> we're with the "washington post". . >> washington -- get the [ bleep ] out of here. move your olympic [ bleep ] and your [ bleep ] lies. how many more people have to die. how many have to die because of your lie. >> kate, that's hard for me just to watch and you're standing there. describe what it was like standing there knowing how they had been whipped up by a lie to go into the building. what was it like to be there? >> i mean, the word intense is kind of an understatement. it was a very precarious situation for everybody there. particularly because, as you and everybody else had stated, so many people there so firmly believe this election was stolen. and they see it almost as an

existential threat to them and democracy, their version of democracy. so we had people who were, you know, breaking into traitor and patriot. the journalists and the police and even some of the emts who were wearing masks were considered traitors. and so when you're in a situation like that, it feels it's not just situational danger. you are a direct target. and so that -- to put it lightly, it was a stressful situation. it grew increasingly dangerous after people breached the capitol because they were emboldened that this crowd had no personal responsibility that they could get away with anything. they were emboldened by the president. they were also emboldened by

anti-government armed groups that have been training for a long, long time for what they think should be essentially a second revolution. >> you stayed there and continued to report and we have your video because of it. gene robinson, there was a telling piece from kate where one man looked at police officers and said we used to back the blue but you have broken your oath. the line so powerful it had rioters turning on police. >> yeah. it's just incredible that people were supposed to support law and order. you know, blue lives matter. well, apparently not. but to indicate, first i and all your colleagues want to thank you for your bravery, literally bravery under fire. we're so glad that you're okay. we saw the clip that some of the

rioters wanted to yell at you. but as you engaged with them, did any of them want to actually talk to you in any sort of way? was there any human connection there, or was it just them versus enemy of the people who just had to be shouted at? >> yeah. it's a really good question. and, you know, that is a weird moment that was captured on camera because i was kind of in shock. i was thinking don't do anything to provoke them. just stay calm so they don't hurt me or joy. but i was reporting and trying to understand what do they want. what are their motivations. some, as you heard, blamed us for the shooting of the woman inside of the capitol. but others, as you ask, were saying can't you understand our cause? don't you understand what we want? can you agree that the media has contributed to this division? one man wanted us to, you know,

understand that people who adhere to an antifa ideology aren't supporting unity. they are supporting divisions. that went on for a really long time. after it calmed down this woman followed me and she said don't you understand what the media is doing? and i said i appreciate your concerns and i reflect on it. i think one thing that is really important to note, when you're watching the video of me and the video of police getting hurt and all of these people, it's shocking and upsetting. and it should be. one of the reasons it's jar to go many audiences is because i'm a white woman from the "washington post". you don't normally see people like me enduring that attack. but i am just a representation on of a greater hostility to

large swaths of this country. and i am talking about people who don't look like me. black americans and brown americans and lbgtq americans have felt and faced this kind of threat not in this form but in different forms for a very long time. so joe was mentioning this is the legacy of trump. we need to think about what is the legacy of this country. because as you see the footage from the capitol, there are confederate flags everywhere. there are betsy ross flags. this is a flag that idolizes a time when women and black and brown americans didn't hold power. and my colleagues at the "washington post" have done a brilliant video and graphics breakdown of all the flags out there. so people trying to understand who is this, what is this? these are your neighbors, my neighbors. hopefully not. but they're americans. and some believe the line that

the election was stolen. some want to overthrow the government for whatever reason. many are white supremacists. and they all took advantage of this moment. but this is not a division that started with trump. he took advantage of it. but it's going to persist until we start looking at those flags and what they mean. >> you know, kate, i don't know where you live and i don't know who your neighbors are, and maybe your neighbors aren't white supremacists right around you, but i guarantee you there are people on your street who believe this election was stolen and who quietly support what happened there. and i say that of all of us. it's been shock to go me the people close to me in my life who won't come out and say it to me, but i know. you talking about how it was shocking to see a white woman like yourself being attacked

like this by a mob. i'll tell you what else is shocking about the video that you got and some of the other people got, it exposes a lie that we conservatives have been telling ourselves for 50 years. and this is the lie. and i heard it even before the election. people were saying to me, listen, if trump wins, oh, my god, don't be in washington because you know those people, the left. they're going to burn the city down. but the lie that we conservatives have always told ourselves, we don't have time to riot. we work. we've got to work the next day. if we don't like something, we're working. but those people, whoever they are, whether it's others, left wing, antifa, whatever they say the others are, they have jobs. so -- or we have jobs so we don't do that. this exposes that lie and shows

that, yes, right wing freaks i will call them that, right wing criminals actually do march and they do riot and they do kill police officers. >> not only that, but this doesn't just happen in the u.s. capitol. we had this attack that shook the nation here. but the people in the capitol came from across the country. and these are tensions that were simmering and not just simmering but, you know, coming up all across the country. and they will go back to every state in this country. you can't say, oh, i want to try to be friend with that pepper. but labeling people as freaks --

you can do whatever you want. it's not entirely helpful to the situation i think. and we just need to be asking, you know, beyond the extremists. because there were plenty of extremists. there were plenty of radicalized individuals. there were also thousands and thousands of families who didn't want violence but still didn't understand that this should not be happening. so, you know, somehow we need to start to engage in conversations. and i will be criticized by that by my own friends to say how can you possibly engage? but we need to improve our reporting and education, et cetera. >> right. i put them out of fire, the freaks. the freaks that killed cops. i'll call them criminals. traitors to america. but i did point out earlier this

week, and it's a point you were trying to make when we showed the video. i did see people who were there that actually were shielding police officers as they were retreating. i saw people wearing maga hats pushing people away from lines of police officers who kept retreating. i think it was the same area where you are. you can't paint everybody with a broad stroke. but you look at the people around the capitol, people that infiltrated the capitol, people that killed police officers, yes, i will be more exact -- >> but there is a complicity to this. even if they were protecting a cop. i dropped my water bottle and someone looked doubt and picked it up and said it had a hole in it. he said that's a bummer. he felt bad. even if there are more benign quote unquote actors within this

crowd, they were all essentially supportive. and their energy gave movement to this attack. so the other part of this, too, is this hostility, these threats, this violence was sanctioned, right? it was sanctioned by the president of the united states. and until very recently it hasn't been condemned by members of the republican party. and so, you know, i don't want to get into politics. but we have a very hard period of reflection where we need to grapple with this in our own families about what threats we're facing. >> kate, thank you so much. extraordinary work. >> thank you so much for your insight. >> i really do appreciate it. >> really good. >> mika, she's exactly right. we do have to engage, which i

have spent my entire life doing in the conservative movement, evangelical church and republican party. we do have to stay engaged. but we also have to throw in jail people who committed insurrection against the united states of america. and they need to do their time for sedition. and we wish them the best. and hopefully when they come out of serving their 20 year sentence, which so many people should serve, we should sit down and have a conversation and stay engaged with them. but you know what, there has to be justice. if you believe there has to be justice in the streets of portland and seattle like i did this summer. >> yeah. . >> and you called for it, nonstop, then there has to be justice in the united states capitol. because it's one thing throwing stuff at a federal courthouse in portland, oregon. it's another thing trying to

kill the vice president of the united states and the speaker of the house. we actually do treat those things differently under the law. so join me in supporting police officers. join me in believing that blue lives do matter in the united states capitol. join me if you really are a conservative in demanding swift justice for every one of these rioters. >> ultimately, what you are talking about is et gooding back to the truth. and valuing the truth, which has been devalued and things have been allowed to slide for four years. and here we are. still ahead on "morning joe", senate commission hearings get under way for some of joe biden's cabinet picks. it seems most, if not all, won't be confirmed by inauguration day. plus, we'll be joined by senator amy klobuchar, who will

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the number of people connected to the capitol riots continues to rapidly grow. as of this morning, 124 people have been arrested for their roles in the insurgence. at least 97 people have been charged with federal crimes so far. that's expected to increase as a law enforcement official says there are still 330 open cases. meanwhile, court documents reveal a pennsylvania woman told a former romantic partner that she planned to sell a laptop that she stole from house speaker nancy pelosi's office to russian intelligence. the partner later turned her in. >> well, that's one way to make

america great again. >> they're following trump's lead here. and a new jersey army reservist with security clearance and access to military supplies has also been charged in his alleged role in the riot. >> willie, the people involved cut across a large swath of american society. as kate was saying, in many cases, these are our neighbors. . >> yeah. without a doubt. in that crowd they have been painted in caricature. in that crowd were ceos, olympic medalists. people who truly believed this lie and were compelled to go to the capitol. part of the problem from a security standpoint, they weren't taken seriously. i think reporters who watched the dark corners of the internet took them very seriously.

they thought, oh, these are a bunch of people with flags and trump hats who are going to come to the capitol. no. they meant what they said. that's part of the lesson going forward. as law enforcement, the fbi and people covering these groups and these qanon corners of the internet will take them quite literally as they did at the capitol >> once again, these corners of the internet. for example, the "new york times" or, i don't know, let's say the "washington post" printed anything that these people printed and put out on facebook or twitter immediately there would be checks in place. what's going on here? instead, this stuff grew and grew all over the internet. thanks to these platforms that think they have laws of their own. >> well, and, willie, it is so hilarious. i say hilarious because these people are so extraordinarily stupid i don't know how they get out of bed in the morning.

but there are right wing bloggers. there are right wing pro trumpest, podcasts who say this is what nazi germany was like if you try to put some regulations on facebook. no, no. these are companies that operate in the free market. first of all, they can make the choices. they choose. just like we do. i make the choice, we make the choice who we allow and who we don't. and the second part of it. this is what i hate about section 230. just full immunity. oh, they are third parties. >> yeah. they're having a big rally at the capitol and they want to kill people and take down. they're saying it. they are destroying democracy. you can't sue us for that. that's like us saying that we could get a tape. it's funny.

i'm holding a videotape right now. . >> oh, my god, a vhs. >> no, it's a beta. but somebody could click and send us a video. it could, by their standards, it could lie about anybody. it could accuse anybody of murder, it could accuse anybody of rape. it could accuse anybody of anything. >> and we roll it. >> here's a tape of somebody beating up somebody. here's a tape of somebody stabbing someone. we could do that under the facebook standard, under the twitter standard, right? and they couldn't do anything to us. oh, but wait a second. we actually have regulations that are put on us that don't allow us to do that. it's actually called slander. it's called libel. this is again the widespread immunity for facebook. >> where do they get their information?

>> social media is so outrage. that is, as we have been saying for years, over 50% of americans get their news. >> it's a breeding ground for what happened january 6th. the argument for years is we are just sort of a town square. we open the gate and let people in. we're not in charge of what happens once they're inside the party. these social media companies so panicked by what they saw on january 6th and suddenly realized that a lot of it was fomented on their platforms. they did something about this. but will they continue to do it in the 30 hours from now when president trump is out of office. let's ask former fbi special agent and msnbc contributors clint watts and "new york times" reporter and msnbc national security analyst michael schmidt. clint, let me start with you. what is, do you think, the new permanent posture from the

social media platforms like facebook and twitter, and do you actually believe it is permanent? >> i don't think it's permanent, willie. it is pretty fluid. it really is based on the winds in capitol hill. while january 6th was awful and definitely a striking point for those companies, 24 hours before that two democrats from georgia were elected to the senate. that tipped the balance in terms of what will be interpreted as violent or not violent and who should be. by and large until that line is defined they're going to go whatever direction the majority is in. what's fascinating already, though, is how it has changed the environment of social media. i don't know if you can feel it, you i can feel it when i'm on twitter today, it is noticeably different without president trump on there. the conversation has changed in a very different way. it pushed people to the fringe

platforms, 10 to a dozen of them, the removal of parler sent them scurrying in all directions of the internet and isn't them into closed forums. so there will be a bigger challenge for law enforcement in the coming months. these folks that showed up to the capitol, if not arrested, they're not going away and have lots of supporters around the country. . >> clint, what about president trump, who will, as of tomorrow, be out of office. will he have a platform, a place to direct people the way he has been directing them the last five and a half years? >> willie, i'd be shocked if you didn't emerge on one of these fringe platforms or quickly try to establish his own. that would be an interesting game where he tries to force the u.s. government or regulation to moderate him. imagine him saying, okay, you

pleased my free speech. he could rally people to the cause. i think that's a very plausible scenario we will see unfold in 2021. >> jonathan lemire, good to see you. there we go. hey, mike, i wanted to ask you about the latest on the pardons. you've been reporting extensively on where the president is on this and those he is considering. it does look like he is shying away from trying to self pardon or pardon his immediately family. there are quite a few names on the list, plenty of decisions to be made. can you give us an update on what still stands. and when will we get them, tonight, or tomorrow morning as he takes off for florida? >> the president has gone back and forth a lot about pardons, particularly about himself and his family members, as you were

saying, about rudy giuliani. currently in sort of a posture of not doing the self-pardon or the pardons for his children. obviously, like any decision in trump world, you know, nothing is done until it's done. but indeed this is something that obviously has to get done by noon on wednesday. there is still another batch of pardons and commutations to come. his use of clemency is extraordinarily different than past presidents. the president looking at a range of individuals, the most interesting one in my mind being sheldon silver, former speaker of the new york state legislature. silver was a democrat. but the case has a larger significance. because it was brought by the

office of the southern district of new york, the federal prosecutors of manhattan, an office that investigated the president, and the president has sought to undermine. as i reported over the weekend, the president's former lawyer, john dowd, had told convicts who had been prosecuted by that office their cases would be more favorably looked upon for pardons and commutations simply because they had been investigated by them. now, dowd had worked as the president's lawyer for a little bit less than a year before he quit, he had gone out and tried to represent people who were looking to lobby the president for pardons and commutations. and he was basically saying to them, based on his knowledge working as the president's lawyer that they would look favorably because they were investigated by the same people

who investigated the president. >> gene robinson? >> yeah. clint, i have a question for you. and it's about how you view the threat matrix now. not just for inauguration day but beyond. these people who sacked the capitol, those who will spend the next few years in prison, and i hope quite a few of them do, won't go away. and so how do you see the threats to officials, including soon to be president biden and vice president harris. >> there's three different batches you can look at and varying degrees of severity. one is this loosely organized structure. and you have a more violent and less violent.

more violent are the accelerationists, boogaloo boys. they are looking to start a war. they are moving quickly to set off a deliberate violent ability. they think there will be a chain reaction. and the qanon who really believe in this stuff. if not now then when. separately, then you can look at the militia groups, which we saw many there. you had a proud boys, oath keepers, 3 percenters. they told their people to stand down. the question is would they have people that are overly committed in certain sects. this is a nationwide movement with these groups. and the white supremacists have been emboldened by the president in his term. whether we look forward, i don't

expect a major issue. most them have been light. many people are super committed. one thing that held them back is lack of of targets. when the pandemic ends, there will be more mass gatherings. we saw them talking about nancy pelosi when they stormed the capitol. >> michael schmidt and clint watts, thank you both very much for being on this morning. coming up, a concerning new warning from the fbi that some qanon followers have discussed posing as national guard members in order to infiltrate tomorrow's inauguration. plus, as joe biden prepares to take office, one of his first priorities will be overhauling immigration. we'll dig into his plans for his first day as president. "morning joe" is coming right back. ck

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they had to send out a massive email for me to get that email. i haven't given to the republican party for three and a half years. he's probably having a hard time. >> it appears the white house might be struggling to build a crowd. former white house communications director anthony scaramucci said the fact that he had was invited to trufp's farewell ceremony tomorrow at joint base andrews indicates the white house is desperate for guests. welcome back to "morning joe". it is tuesday, january 19th. along with joe, willie and me,

we have contributor mike barnicle, nbc news capitol hill correspondent and the host of "way too early", kasie hunt. chief national correspondent for the "new york times", mark leibovich. and president and ceo of the national urban league, mark moriall. >> great to have you with us. >> we haven't had a chance to talk since sunday. but, man, tom brady, what can you say? >> well, you can say that it's not close anymore who the greatest quarterback of all time is. he's got twice as many playoff wins as any quarterback in nfl history. did it with a pretty good team. not a great team in tampa. but somehow he finds a way. and that game on sunday will be incredible. green bay, almost bow field. snow flurries probably. aaron rodgers against tom brady. we take brady for granted. he's 43 years old.

33 used to be the age where you would talk about an nfl quarterback starting to wind things down. he's obviously the best there ever was. >> i remember bland trotting on the field for the oakland raiders when he was 43. he looked like haas. by the time he got on the field, seeing that picture on the field,s bleeding from his head. he was 27 at the time probably. they told me brady was going to make it to the super bowl. i said no way. i've always been a joe montana guy who is the greatest quarterback. i put montana at the top. brady is close. you have johnny unitas.

mika, do you want to get in here and talk football for a second? >> actually, i was thinking about talking about the final full day of the trump administration. >> no, we're not going to do that. so, anyway, willie, does he make it to the super bowl? >> boy, it's going to be hard. green bay is really good. but i would never bet against tom brady in a big game. you watch drew brees, who has one of the great careers of all time. throwing the deep bowl. you think he will retire. you look at brady and you think, why not three or four more years. >> mike barnicle, the last day of the trump administration, mika and i wanted to ask you coming in what's going on in biden world. what are they thinking? i must say, you told me several weeks ago they were beyond themselves, nervous about just

how bad the vaccine distribution rollout was going. and they had seen the plans and were horrified. sure enough, they were right there. what are they thinking on the 19th of january? >> well, i think they're thinking the same thing they were thinking since november 6th or 7th, joe. they have geared up. they're ready to go. everyone who has been appointed or announced yet, not confirmed by the senate, every cabinet post that has been announced, these are all people who know how to drive the car. there's no need for on-the-job training, driver training or anything like that. once they assume the position at noon tomorrow, they are ready to go. they've been ready to go for several weeks. when you think about it, when you really, really think about it, we have not had a functioning president of the united states since the second week in november. i think you pushed his schedule, trump's schedule earlier in the

show. he has nothing on the schedule today. it's the same as nearly every other day since the election took place. joseph r. biden, the incoming president of the united states, has been performing many functions as a president, as he addresses the nation on specific topics as he has done. they're ready to go. i think there is some trepidation about how much has been hidden by the existing administration. what are they going to find when they open the desk drawers. what are they going to find in terms of intelligence that was either not acted on, ignored or abused. all sorts of likely things. as far as the priority, getting the vaccine into people's arms, they are ready to roll on that. could i add one little addendum about tom brady. >> oh, boy. >> if you have a chance, and i'm sure you have seen it, watch the clip of tom brady on the field

with drew brees and his family for one specific reason. as tom brady leaves drew brees and walks off that field, he turns to brees's boys who are in the end zone and looks at them and says take care of your sister. that's good parenting. wow. >> that really is. that really is. two class acts there. mike said we haven't had a functioning president since november. we really haven't had a president since 2016. he hasn't wanted to get the daily briefings. who hasn't done his job. he sat and watched cable news. he's been on twitter. he hasn't done the big things. he doesn't know how to pass legislation. he doesn't know how to do much

of anything. when he ran off what few competent people he had in 2017 things, mika, went from very bad to much worse. and he really -- he spread conspiracy theories. >> yeah. >> and that's been about it. it's going to be good whether you're republican, democrat or independent. it's going to be good to have people who know how 20d their job inside the white house. the chamber of commerce is now saying for get ideology. we just want people who know how to do their jobs. there are a lot of people who just want to see them do their jobs after four years of madness. >> so as we look forward right now to the final full day of the

trump administration the president has what we call official time. there's nothing on the schedule. this is what they have released. president trump will work from early in the morning until late in the evening. he will make many calls and have many meetings. wow. we're awaiting news on pardons that the president is planning with the "new york times" reporting. white house counselors are worried the action could hurt him with senators at his impeachment trial. tomorrow the trumps will break with modern tradition, once again, in not greeting the bidens at the white house. making president trump the first living president not to attend his successor's inauguration in

152 years. >> look at this. look at the obamas. trump was pushing the birther stuff. he was trying to say that obama was born in kenya. and look at the obamas. as classy as they come. not knowing what to do with an inappropriate gift. so according to the "washington post", the president is still enraged about celebrities snubbing trump's own inauguration in 2017. the "post" reports that in recent days, trump was particularly upset that lady gaga, jennifer lopez, tom hanks, and other stars agreed to perform as part of biden's inaugural celebrations. meanwhile, president trump is exiting the white house with his personal worst job approval rating in the latest gallup poll. it makes him the only president in the company's 80 plus polling history to never break the 50%

threshold. the most recent numbers show just 34% of americans approve of the president's job in office. 62% disapprove. when looking at his average approval rating, president trump is the most unpopular president in gallup's history behind obama, ford, carter and truman at 41%. >> that leaves both the bushes and jfk and ike and johnson. everybody else higher than him. mark, what i have found so fascinating about donald trump regarding these poll numbers, he's a guy that if he had just talked about the economy most likely he would have stayed over 50%. he would have gone over 50%. he couldn't do it.

the playing field seemed set up for donald trump. i do my football analogies. a hole wide open that he can run through, he decides to turn around and run towards the other end zone. and you look at what happened the day after he felt complete ly vindicated after the muller report is dropped and muller testifies. when things are breaking his way, and his supporters are running victory laps, donald trump picks up the phone and then decides to call the president of the ukraine, blackmail him with military support that congress has already approved, in return for him digging up dirt on his political opponent.

this is a guy who could never stand success at any time. >> he is. so much of his poll numbers is self-inflicted. >> yeah. . >> you think of a couple infection points. one was when the coronavirus virus started in march. this is a lot that no president would every envy. it's a really, really challenging situation. immediately donald trump was thinking, oh, boy, i'm really in trouble. i'm just going to deny this is happening and hope no one notices this virus that is ravaging and killing people every week. so he could have very easily just sort of stepped back and if he was capable of the leadership and empathy that a lot of people wished he did, even people close to him from the very beginning,

it could be something he not only survived but was enhanced by as a lot of public figures across the world have been. obviously there was that. even after the election. november 6th, 7th, after biden was declared victor, this could be -- if he were just to sort of act like a normal losing presidential candidate and be gracious and engage in a normal transition period, he probably would -- his approval numbers would probably be 10 points higher than it is now, and he would be extremely well positioned probably going forward to be the republican nominee in 2024. he still could be. but certainly his posture would be more enhanced, more so than it is now. a lot of it is self-inflicted. >> time and again, you're right. he would be set up to travel across the world, go to all the countries with autocratic leader

that he cozied up to. could have made a fortune. because i know that's what is important to him. he did it his own way, these self-inflicted wounds. this president race, let's look after the presidential race. let's look at the weeks leading into the presidential race. he did it the last 10 days of the 2016 campaign, which is why he won. he still could have been re-elected president of the united states. and given the small margins, he

would have been re-elected president of the united states. it is, again, remarkable time and again the self-inflicted wounds that this guy burdened himself, looking all his days looking for enemies when the real political enemy was right in front of him in the mirror. he could have ridden on the economy and won by four points. >> yeah. if you go back farther to that, almost a year ago of this public health crisis that has killed 400,000 americans, he likes to talk about being the wartime president, reflects back in history on generals he nicer. he could have been that kind of figure. he could have stood at that podium and said i'm in charge here. we're taking this on. we'll have to lockdown. but by this summer we'll be back

to normal. instead, he chose to wish it away. he chose to talk about conspiracies, a hoax, that the media concocted. he could have led with the scientists. and actually been the guy that he likes to pretend he is, which is a big, strong leader. meanwhile, joe biden, in looking at the clock here, 29 hours, will be president of the united states. in the wake of that capitol riot january 6th, transition officials say the biden administration will make domestic terrorism a key issue for the national security council. they are looking to shift government resources to combatting specifically domestic terrorism. the incoming administration will make announcements in the early days after biden takes office tomorrow. president-elect biden also says he will rollout an overhaul of the country's immigration laws as his first day as president.

an eight-year pathway to citizenship for those without legal status, introduce an enforcement plan that deploys technology to troll the border and address the root causes of migration from central america. it would give temporary status to millions of qualifying immigrants for five years and then grant them a green card once they meet certain requirements such as background checks and paying taxes. applicants could apply for citizenship three years later. proposing getting through a 50/50 congress. we already heard yesterday from some republican senators, chief tom cotton saying this is amnesty again. here we go. this has no chance of getting through. >> there's no issue like immigration to send everyone

scurrying back to their corners and digging into old divisions and ways of doing business. this is clearly a move that shows that the biden team understands they're also going to have to manage their progressive left. we have talked a ton about biden's relationship with mccobble and how he wants to take a chance to work with republicans. now that democrats control both the senate and the house, that's actually in an interesting way likely to give more power to the left wing of the party. and there's going to be a lot of pressure on this issue. this is a place where a lot of activists, immigration activists have criticized the obama administration. they criticized him for putting this on the back burner, norfolk using on other priorities before they got around to doing immigration reform. my initial read on this, this is an attempt to not make that mistake again for a critical group that the biden team needs here. they are going to have to make a decision what they want to do

first. as we know, and i know joe has experienced this when he was a member of congress and covered it extensive live since, he has two years where he is going to control the house, the senate, and the white house. and he's going to get one, maybe two major shots on goal to get something big done. and he's got a chance now. because chuck schumer will put it on the floor. the first is likely to be a big economic package. then they have to decide, do they want a knockdown dragout fight over immigration, do they want to do climate change. that seems to be a significant focus. it seems like something they might be able to accomplish. they will have to make them early on because frankly they will not have that many chances to get something big and sweeping across the finish line to get something through congress. . >> they are not, kasie, let me just say this. let me just make everybody angry right now. >> already? >> i'll just make everybody on the left angry right now. . >> one more time. >> this has nothing to do with

ideology. this has to do with numbers, basic a arithmetic. there's not going to be sweeping progressive reforms that will pass through this congress. progressives and moderates are going to have to think strategically and figure out a way to pass selection that is not going to be considered but may just be good. it may just be a step forward. politics is the art of the possible. what is possible, kasie hunt, is democrats can pass bipartisan reform. you talked about climate change. great. guess what, you have to talk to joe manchin about that. joe is the 50th vote. if you can't get joe, maybe you will have to go to maine and get collins, maybe murkowski in

alaska, mitt romney in utah it. whatever it is, that's the framing of it. of course it will be exciting that he can get the united states back into paris just by signing his name on an executive order. but, kasie, this is going to take a lot of skill. we always said if bill clinton started first with welfare reform instead of failed health care reform, which was too sweeping in a lot of people's eyes in 1993, democrats wouldn't have lost control of congress. of course we can have that debate time and again. but what he chooses first, you're exactly right. that is critical. because it frames the next two years for him.

>> it really does, joe. they will see if there is a way forward with the center in the senate. there is reconciliation that would only take democratic votes. but it's limited. and it doesn't do the broad sweeping legislative changes that you then turn into a legacy. they can do some things with that, but it does not offer the full toolbox. a lot of this is going to be up to mitch mcconnell as well. is there going to be a sense that, okay, we just got thrown out of power. we've got to figure out a way to actually work going forward. and climate change is a tricky one. but there is a lot of cross currents and interests. it's a place where you could in theory build consensus by giving a lot of different people what they want. so i do think that is a possible area where it could work. but mark, i want to ask you about this because we are heading into this administration in such a highly charged

atmosphere. there are so many crises to deal with. and we obviously have been a horrible reckoning around race. when i think about some of the slogans and the things people were saying and doing was difficult to grapple with. we have to figure out how to fix it. i guess my question to you is how do you start that? is there something they can do around rec sillation? we need a voting rights act. we don't have one. how does the biden administration grapple with that? where do you want to see them put that on the priority list? >> i think first -- and good morning and thank you to all. don't rub in the saints' loss too much for me. i'm still in pain. kasie, here's the point. >> i'm a saints fan myself too. >> yeah. love the saints. you start with your inauguration speech.

and the words and the investigation you shape. the power of the presidency is the bully pulpit. to set the right tone, and it has to be a hard break from the four years of donald trump's divisive rhetoric, policies, donald trump's device i have personality. that's number one. number two, voting rights and fixing democracy is a very important element i think of healing the nation. we have always in this nation, up until most recently looked at voting rights as a bipartisan enterprise. in 65, 72, 82, and 2005 and 2006 when it was renewed, it was always with large bipartisan majorities. it would be a perfect way to secure democracy, to fix the power of the ballot, to ensure that as we go into

reapportionment, racially motivated dilution and jerry mannedering will not be legal in this nation. but beyond that, i feel january 6th was a defining moment in american history. there is an opportunity for there to be a new consensus, around democracy, around some of these difficult issues, voting rights, justice reform, climate change. i see biden with an opportunity to create a new and different kind of coalition. and when you step away from washington and the blue shirt redshirt washington you see strong support for things like immigration and voting rights and justice reform and climate change and injecting money to fix the economy.

and young young people particularly, a real desire to combat racial violence in this country. what we have to hear what people in the neighborhoods, people in the cities, in the suburbs, the villages, towns are saying about where we are as a nation. >> mr. mayor, i'm so glad we have you on. you have done this before. you understand what it's like getting the votes good net beginnings passed. you brought up, i think, a remarkable place to start. follow through on the promise of john louis, the voting rights bill that he tried to pass. i keep talking about joe

manchin, 68% of west virginians voted for donald trump. i'm sure joe manchin would love to help carry the ball over the goal line, more sports metaphors for john lewis's voting rights act. that's something susan collins could get around, lisa murkowski, other republicans as well. and you talked about fixing democracy. give us an example of a reform that republicans and democrats alike could support. i think they can get 50 plus 1 for the john lewis voting rights act. what is another example of one of these reforms? >> we need guard rails around money and politics. transparency. big money, independent money that affects american politics. we need to go back and look at it. look, one of the tragedies of

the supreme court was tphraubging down the mccain feingold legislation. that was a bipartisan bill that had broad consensus across the nation. we have to fix money. i would say, joe, and to the entire panel, the passing of john lewis, voting rights act in the first 100 days would be a down payment in a significant way towards repairing american democracy. because the damage that's been done since the shelby decision is documentable, palpable. we can fix that. let's do covid. americans are suffering. people in neighborhoods are on the brink of eviction, foreclosure. the pain. we are in a different time.

this is not '92. this is not 2000. this is not even 2015. we're in a different point in time. and i think the american people want action. they want action. they don't want fiddling, faddling and the usual washington object fuss indication. >> mr. mayor, thank you so much. let's hope it doesn't take 100 days to pass the voting rights bill. thank you so much. still that ed on "morning joe", twitter suspended thousands of accounts linked to qanon. that doesn't mean the conspiracy movement is gone. we will bring in nbc's ben collins who has been researching qanon for years. he has incredible insights that you are going to want to hear. you're watching "morning joe". we'll be right back. ". we'll be right back.

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>> president trump back in august claiming not to know anything about qanon, yet still enjoying the group's support. now the fbi has privately warned law enforcement agencies that far right extremists have discussed posing as national guard members on inauguration day. the document warned they plan to come to washington for the swearing in ceremony tomorrow of president-elect joe biden. the fbi also said it observed

people downloading and sharing maps of sensitive locations in washington and discussing how they could be used in security. the intelligence report did not identify a specific plot to attack the inauguration that would be similar to what happened january 6th. joining us nbc news reporter ben collins, who spent the last several years researching qanon supporters on twitter. ben, good morning. good to see you again. we were just talking about you in the last hour in terms of this next day circled on the calendar, which is january 20th, tomorrow. and you said for many of them it would be the a last stand. what does that mean exactly and what does it mean for the day after? >> it is sort of a religion or cult. they have one doomsday. it is just pushed back over and over again. donald trump declares martial law. they are all executed in public

the in the gallos. for a lot of qanon supporters, they believed it was january 6th. they believe it was a missed opportunity. they think this was supposed to happen and didn't and there was a reason for it. in qanon there is always a reason for something. and january 20th would be the next thing. they have circled this. they believe the inauguration is a big lie, all fake, all a ruse to make sure it's all in one place so they can round them up. the issue is what happens when this doesn't happen. when i said this is a last stand, i mean it. they don't have a leader in office any more. they would have to continue with a shadow presidency. that's a bridge too far for some people. and the worry about this is what happens to the most radicalized qanon people when the crux of this falls apart. >> you have written so much who exactly qanon followers are.

we saw a lot of caricature january 6th. as joe was saying earlier, it's next door neighbors, facebook groups that morph into something different. moms in the suburbs. you have talked about an off-ramp, reaching out to family members, neighbors and say we want you back. what does that look like after trump u leaves office? >> there is always an opportunity when there is a fracture in a movement like this. and there is a fracture in the movement like this. there is a reason people want to not think about this stuff. it's very dark. you know, up don't think it can hit you personally until it does. this isn't just random trump

supporters, people in the dark spaces of the internet. people were going down youtube rabbit holes because of the pandemic. and, look, that can affect anybody. i talked to some people over the summer. they were ceos of marketing companies. they were regular people. they lost all their business, they didn't have any answers. qanon gives you answers. murdering a bunch oven mys. then it's all fixed. that is an answer. it gave a lot of people, i know this sounds strange, but it gave a lot of people hope. you can reach back out to those people, to those friends on facebook or parler or whatever and say, look, no judgment. it didn't happen. about it's time to come back to reality now. i think this is a good moment.

>> you talked about this being humiliating cult to the end because you are humiliated time after time after time. again, a good friend of yours knows somebody who was an elected official and very significant position who said joe biden is going to leave washington on the 2021, he is going to go home and aoc and the socialists are going to run the government. you just wonder where they get that from. what i wonder is what have you found about evangelicals? you talk about tribes. this is my tribe. first baptist church in pensacola, or channel pwhraoe, georgia. these are the people i went to church with like two, three, four times a week.

this is what i've known. and these are people who always talked about being set apart from the world. set apart from secularism. don't listen to this song. don't go to that movie. don't love this movie star. because whatever it is, it's a false idol that you're setting up in the place of god. so the question is why have we found so many evangelicals susceptible to this cult when they have had a belief system that guided them their whole lives. >> joe, it makes a lot of sense if you think about what you just said. qanon thrives on closed off media eco systems. they say, you know, what's happening on mainstream news isn't real. trust what we are saying. we will all talk to each other,

give each other the news about what's going on. but the people are getting wrong information from youtube. if you are inherently distrusting anything that is commonly labeled as news, you are only going to get pretty bad information in rumors from places like youtube and instagram. these people have sealed off eco systems. i talk to so many alternative health people who got into this who were not trump fans. straight up, they did not like donald trump until january or february of this year and they became full-on qanon people who thought democrats were eating children and donald trump will save the day. any time there is a closed off group like that before information becomes just like a way to ramp each other up. >> mark leibovich has a question

for you. mark? >> i was struck by one of the things you said, the effect the pandemic had on this. the economic devastation of it certainly but also just being shut in during a quarantine situation and just giving people that much more time to be online. will this clear up when something gets back closer to resembling normalcy when this is all over? >> i hope so. a woman is returned to qanon karen. a woman who took a bunch of masks and live streamed herself going bananas. she got her life back together, started talking to friends again. don't do this. you are going to live stream yourself committing a bunch of crimes. if you look at the capitol a few days ago, that's precisely what

happened. she put her social life back together. from there she was able to reconstruct reality. that's the first step, getting people back into social worlds that are realistic. if you are looking for one big answer to solve stuff, it's never going to come. you're going to keep having these constant doomsdays coming. that's what the hope is for after tomorrow. they will come back to life here. >> ben collins, thank you very much. joining us now, democratic senator amy klobuchar of minnesota. a member of the joint congressional committee on the inaugural ceremonies and she will have a leading role in the

swearing in of joe biden and kamala harris tomorrow. starting there -- >> hi, mika. >> hi. can you talk about how different this is going to be and if possible what this moment will mean or hopefully will mean. >> sure. mika, i was thinking back as i watched the show this morning that being together when you guys broadcast your first inauguration for the show from the dubliner. i want to take a little of that joy and bring it forth for tomorrow. we know the events in the capitol of january 6th and also the pandemic have greatly changed this inauguration. joe biden wanted a safe inauguration. that's why you see the beautiful flags covering the mall. but it is still going to be this moment of renewal. this is the moment 12:01 p.m. tomorrow, we have a little over 28 hours left here.

he will have a chance to talk about his vision for the country for so many people whose souls need restored. i have so appreciated on the show this morning you guys went through some of the agenda and things he's going to accomplish and needs to get done. we have to remember what this is all about. our democracy literally picking itself up, dusting itself off and moving forward. >> kasie hunt, jump in. >> senator klobuchar, good morning. and i appreciate your notes of hope. and i usually try to find some cheerfulness. buff i have to say it's been such a difficult few weeks. i simply want to ask you you are

going to feel safe on that stage and will your colleagues feel that way too? >> i do feel safe. every inauguration has been run by the secret service. there's always been planning for a year ahead with the defense department and the like. we know military was brought in in '09. i remember talking to my minnesota national guard. a lot of that is because of the crowd. but this is more of a focus on security. if there is sudden change, they will make the call and everyone will listen. at this point i was out on the stage right in the area where the protesters had stormed in, of course. they went up to that platform. they were trying to destroy the very platform where joe biden is going to be sworn in. i heard the rehearsals with the

marine band. and it was a beautiful moment. and i think all america is going to be sharing in that moment. knowing the world is not the same as 10 years ago. but we have to move forward. and that's what this inauguration is about. >> let's go to mike barnicle. mike? >> hi, mike. >> senator, as you knows and as you have lived, we are living in a nation that has been partially broken over the past four years. so if you could please tell us about a moment, and it will be a moment, that's going to occur tomorrow when three former presidents join then president biden at arlington national cemetery. what is going to go on there? >> this is of course to me about the leaders surrounding to-be president biden. and making sure we remember

those we've lost and also that is coming into office not alone. the fact that vice president pence and former president bush will be on that stage, in addition to nearly every single person in leadership in the republican party that's elected in congress, that is why this is so important. i mean, there have been people who say he shouldn't do something like go to arlington. he shouldn't do the inauguration. guess what, he is not going to spend his presidency in the bunker because this mad, angry mob went down the mall and invaded congress. all of this is a sense of ceremony, a sense of respect for those we have lost. but it is also a vision for the future. and you can't do that alone. and joe biden has always said that. when he was announced the victor the first of 13 times where on that stage in wilmington he said, look, i'm going to give you guys a chance.

people who voted for trump, give me a chance. and i think that spirit is still going to be there starting tomorrow. >> what does the united states senate do with josh hawley. three newspapers in his state have called for his resignation, demanded that he be expelled. now three newspapers in the state of texas have called for ted cruz's resignation or that he should be expelled from the united states senate. how do you workday in and day out with two members of congress, two members of the united states senate who led an insurrection against the united states of america and seemed to be unapologetic about the fact that they were responsible for the death of a capitol hill police officer and the worst breach in the united states capitol since the war of 1812?

>> i didn't want them there in the first place. obviously, i didn't support them. i would be very pleased if they resigned. but i think one of the first things we need is accountability. especially accountability. especially when you hear about the allegations in the house about people potentially giving tours and reconnaissance tours to some of these insurrectionists, i think there will be investigations into this. and then after that we'll see who is still in congress and then you move on and you find some way to reconcile. but am i reaching out to them to do bills? of course not. there are plenty of people like a mitt romney or a lisa murkowski and so many others who were willing to stand up and call this what it was. in the end in the senate, as you know, joe, we ended up with six or seven of them, depending on

the vote, actually voting to overturn the will of the people. in the senate, over 90% of the senators on that night was some of them switching their votes during the day as they saw the fruits of what this effort had brought about, they actually changed their votes. and i think that you are going to start seeing some people being willing to work on issues, which we have already seen in the past. immigration, we were gut punched by trump. that is really a path where we could get things done. infrastructure, the pandemic package, economics, there is so much to be done for the american public. i haven't been able to see my mom in the nursing home for nearly a year. those people are depending on us to get something done. and i think that we can bring this president to justice at the same time we work to get joe's

nominees past as well as get legislation through. that's what we got to do. america is juggling stuff every day and the congress better do it starting tomorrow. >> senator amy klobuchar, amen. thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. coming up, the world will be watching as joe biden gets sworn in tomorrow. keim simmons takes a look at biden's foreign policy to do list. "morning joe" will be right back.

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this is an honor. just excited, and i think she said it best, unity.

loving one another man. that's what you spent your time doing as a singer. that's what you get to sing about. so this is a great day in our household. this is not a political statement. this is a statement of unity. >> you know, willy, staff members, the few remaining around elvis before he goes into the bathroom at graceland cannot figure out what makes him angry, what makes him get the gun and shoot the tv set and how bizarre that donald trump is actually upset more by the fact, according to "the washington post," by the fact that these stars wouldn't do his inauguration but are doing joe biden's inauguration. >> strange. >> that tells you about this reality tv star's priorities. >> yeah. that tells a story, doesn't it? on the last day we cross 400,000

deaths from covid, a couple weeks from an insurrection he helped incite. he's upset they signed up to joe biden's inauguration, a level of act he couldn't get to his own. he will leave office without it again. still ahead, one term, two impeachments, no health care plan, no border wall and one conspiracy theory after another. a look at president trump's final full day in office today next on "morning joe." ♪ limu emu ♪ and doug. and if we win, we get to tell you how liberty mutual customizes car insurance so you only pay for what you need. isn't that what you just did? service! ♪ stand back, i'm gonna show ya ♪ ♪ how doug and limu roll, ya ♪ ♪ you know you got to live it ♪ ♪ if you wanna wi... ♪

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we're signing a health care plan within two weeks, a full and complete health care plan. >> we're going to be introducing a health care plan some time prior -- hopefully prior to the end of the month. it is just about completed now. >> over the next two weeks, i will be pursuing a major executive order requiring health insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions. >> the president will be laying out some additional on health care steps in the coming i would say two weeks. >> this is all very exciting. no, this is all very exciting because, you know, since barack obama started talking about

obama care, republicans have not put forward a single health care plan as a party. >> right. >> so there has been no effort until this president. and we just heard those assurances that the health care plan is coming out in two weeks. it's done. and, so, micah, today, it must be today. but to a bigger point because i know you were saying, okay, that's when -- what's joe's bigger point here. willy is thinking that. >> no, no. >> always. >> what's joe's bigger point? this is like all the conspiracy theories, that the world is coming to an end next week and then it doesn't come to an end and then something else is happening next week. a good friend of ours has a friend who is caught up in all the conspiracy theories, and now the new conspiracy theory is joe

biden is going to move back to delaware on the 21st of january, and he's going to basically turn the government over to aoc and everybody. and there are educated people who believe this. there are former elected officials of large cities who believe this. and they're always made a fool of because these conspiracy theories never come true. and that was donald trump's whole presidency. david brooks has this incredible article, incredible column talking about evangelicals. the evangelical community split in half because people believe the lies for four years and only now are half the church waking up to the fact that they have been lied to repeatedly by someone that they have set up as an idol. and, so, these lies, they are --

it's not a bug. it's been a feature of the trump presidency, micah. and these lies, again, in the light of day, are proven to be lies. >> absolutely zero health care plan. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." along with joe, willy and me, we have jonathan la mere and associate editor of the washington post eugene robinson. >> willy, there was a column this weekend. not exactly sure who it was. maybe you can remind me of somebody who said how humiliating it was to be a trump follower, how hue mitt yaling it was to be a qanon follower because your entire life is talking about an event coming

and then it never comes. and then you are humiliated and then you have to talk about the next end of the world and those never come as well. that was donald trump's presidency. >> well, nbc's ben collins has been writing about that for a long time. >> it was ben. >> yeah. there were dates circled on the calendar. january 6th was one of them. the next one is when the political and culture rapture is supposed to happen and it doesn't happen. then it gets kicked down the road. at some point you would think people would catch on. you're so right about the health care. and wall is the most glaring example. that was the basis of his entire campaign. build that wall. mexico is going to pay for it. it started when he came down the escalator in june of 2015. he will leave office tomorrow with 10 to 15 miles being built.

>> that people can climb over. >> exactly. he went down there last week and autographed a piece of the wall to continue and to reinforce the lie and say, look, i actually did it. i'm leaving office. promises made, promises kept. there is no wall. there is no health care plan. it was all a big branding exercise and by and large to get him into office, it worked. >> yeah. >> gene, we have lived our entire adult lives, gene, you and i and most other people watching this show understanding that if politicians make promises and they break those promises, they are held into account. i remember barack obama said in 2009 if you want your doctor, you can keep your doctor. that ended up not being true. republicans pounded him for that. >> yeah. >> you know, in all cases. in all cases, republicans pounded him on that for 11 years.

donald trump has lied repeatedly. he said he was going to pay off not just the deficit. he promised universal health care for everybody. he promised he was going to build a wall. i could go on. but he lies to them every week. and it's not like, oh, well, you are just saying that because, you know, you are a conservative, joe, but you are on msnbc. no, we have got the videotape. we've got the videotape, gene. and they've got the videotape. but i guess this is what it's like being in a cult. >> that's what it looks like to me. i mean, look, maybe that health care plan is coming tomorrow at the big send-off, right? maybe that's what he's going to announce. but i kind of doubt it. he never intended to put out a health care plan, not in two weeks, not in two years, not in

200 years. and it was lie after lie after lie and we have chronicled those lies. we heard them in real-time, said this is not going to happen. yet, people who wanted to believe it believed it, and they went seamlessly to the next lie. and that is difficult to understand. it is difficult to understand the degree of alienation. and it's really alienation from reality that causes this blind, literally blind, deaf, dumb and blind allegiance to a liar, to a politician, to a man who lies the way other people breathe and, you know, you have to know that because you have experienced it over and over again. yet, people kept coming back and

some people continue to come back. now maybe they will fall off as time goes on. we have to hope. we have to hope because reality has to win out. reality has to win out over paranoid fantasy. >> that really depends. if donald trump is a cult leader, then his sponsors over the last four years have been facebook and twitter. >> that's right. >> and so they take him off of twitter, take him off of facebook and disinformation falls by 73%. does that have an impact? yes, that has an impact. the big question is will facebook continue to propagate cult leaders. if you don't think this is going to happen on the left, you are a fool. you are a fool. that's the danger of donald

trump. that's not the danger to the republic. the danger to the republic that people on the right, people on the left, people in the center, people who believe in nothing have seen how easy it is to like break in to american democracy and actually put it at risk. you know, they're thinking if donald trump weren't so stupid -- that's what they're thinking, of course. not me. i would never think about that of any president. if donald trump weren't so stupid, he actually could have pulled this off, right? that's what they're thinking. so it is up to you. it is up to me. it is up to facebook. it is up to twitter. it is up to all of us to make sure this never happens again. and, yes, oh, joe, you and micah were responsible because you had him on live in 2009. guilty. awesome. does that make you feel better?

fine. okay. now, focus if you will. post-2015 facebook and twitter and fox news and a lot of people carried that lie forward. >> kept going. >> day in and day out, day in and day out. the consequences devastating. by the way, over 400,000 of your americans dead. more people than were killed in world war ii. more people than were killed in world war i. let's see. i'm not good in math, but about seven times as many people who were killed in vietnam. let me say that again. more than seven times the number of people who died in vote than have been killed by this virus that donald trump in lying to you, ye old faithful member of the cult said was going to be one person coming in from china and it was going to go away. >> and put some bleach in your arm. >> and then a month later in michigan he said it's going to be 15 people.

but soon it's going to be down to zero. we have done a very good job. then he started talking about putting bleach into your arm. then he started talking about uv lights. then he talked about hydro don't think this was a one-time event and don't think this is about somebody on the far right wing, okay? because donald trump is not far right wing. he doesn't give a damn about ied lolg and that's what we have to be looking for in the future. jesus, it would be great if so many people who called themselves evangelicals actually read the bible. i've been divorced twice. steve called me a human highlight film for sinning. i mean, steve and i were

roommates in congress. but if they actually read the bible, they would be knowledgeable of jesus' warning, beware of false prophets, cult members. whisper after me, beware of false prophets. you don't know where they're going to come from. jesus warned us about that, too. if you don't love jesus, i'm not talking to you. i'm talking to the cult members inside my church who have powered donald trump's presidency over the past four years. stop reading qanon sites and start reading the gospel of jesus christ, and we will be all

right. >> i would like to make a little point to one thing you said, and that is about twitter and facebook who just right now ad hoc have decided to ban president trump in at least twitter disinformation is down 70% showing just how damaging they have been letting him run rampid over the last four years. but banning trump is not the issue. that they are not the people who can decide what can be out there and whatnot. they are publishers. >> they need to be recognized as much. >> you are part of the problem, whether it is from the right or the left. and believe it or not, you're too blind to see it when it's coming because it took you this long. it took you this long to even realize the damage that was being even promulgated or unfurled our your platforms or you didn't care. i don't know which is worse.

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we are getting new insight into the security failure behind the january 6th attack on the capitol. four members of the capitol hill tell the associated press they were abandoned by their commanders. one officer saying, we were on our own. other officers saying they were given no warning by leadership about the possibility of an attack even though they had intelligence three days earlier. the police chief who has since

resigned was sheltering in police with vice president pence. the interim chief was heard on the radio telling officers to lock the building down with no further instructions. they also describe how they had to improvise after being overrun by the mob quoting again from the ap, one cop ran from one side of the building to the other fighting hand to hand against rioters. another responded to any calls of officers in distress and spent three hours helping officers. three officers were able to handcuff one rioter, but a group swarmed that group and took the arrested man away with the handcuffs still on, joe. this is a case of what we have been saying. with each passing day, the events inside that capitol seem to get worse with new information. >> and willy, look at these pictures. let's go back to the pictures of these police officers being

assaulted. yes, we saw a few police officers that let people through the gates willingly, took pictures with them. they were the exception, not the rule. they were the ones who of course have been suspendedment and look at these pictures. this is what donald trump -- this is what donald trump ignited. and, willy, these are all people who blindly follow donald trump, law and order. these people are for law and order. you look at the fact that half of donald trump supporters in america supported what went on, the chance about the cops every bit as grotesque as what we heard in portland or seattle. and they're self-righteous about supporting cops, law and order. that's just another lie. these pictures, don't show me.

i'm ugly enough. show these cops. assaulting cops. willy, it's not extraordinary because we knew donald trump was a liar. it is extraordinary that his supporters, a vast majority of his supporters are liars and far from supporting men in blue, far from believing that blue lives matter, they actually did a full on assault in the name of donald trump, and that is donald trump's legacy. that is their legacy and that's the legacy of a vast majority of donald trump supporters and all donald trump supporters who do not condemn him for this insurrection and do not condemn these rioters because they are one in the seem. there is no equivocating. they killed a police officer. they beat another officer within an inch of his life with an american flag.

with the flag pole. that man has been arrested. they crushed one man, an officer inside a door. he has recovered. yes, you can spare us back the blue from this group that was on capitol hill on january the 6th. and those police officers, the more we hear about it were improvising inside. intelligence knew this was coming. they should have been ready. those brave officers were let down by their commanders. they were let down by their supervisors. that will not happen tomorrow. >> coming up, new charges on the attack on the capitol, including one suspect to planned to sell a laptop that she stole from the house speaker's office to russia. we're back in a moment. ♪♪

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federal crimes so far. that's expected to increase as a law enforcement official tells nbc news there are still 330 open cases. meanwhile, court documents reveal a pennsylvania woman told a former romantic partner that she planned to sell a laptop she tole from house speaker nancy pelosi's office to russian intelligence. the partner later turned her in. >> that's one way to make america great again, by sending things to russia. >> they're following trump's lead here. and the security clearance and access to military supplies has also been charged in his alleged role in the riot. >> so, willy, the people involved kind of cross a large swath of american society. these are in many cases our neighbors. >> yes. >> yeah, without a doubt.

in that crowd they have been painted in a certain caricature. in that crowd were ceos, gold medal winners from the american olympic swimming team. they're people who truly believed this lie and were compelled to go to the capitol. i think part of the problem from a security standpoint, probably from a cultural standpoint is they weren't taken seriously. they thought, oh, these are just a bunch of people with flags and trump hats on. we're going to come to the capitol and make some noise. no, they meant what they said. they meant what they said, and i think that will be part of the lesson going forward as law enforcement, as the fbi and as people covering these groups in these qanon corners of the internet will take them quite literally based on what they did at the capitol. >> once again, joe, these corners of the internet like for example "the new york times" or "the washington post" printed

anything that these people printed and put out on facebook or twitter, immediately there would be checks in place of what's going on here. but instead this stuff flew and grew all over the internet thanks to these platforms that think they have laws of their own. >> and willy, it is so hilarious. i will say hilarious because these people are so extraordinarily stupid. i don't know how they get out of bed in the morning. but there are right wing bloggers. there are right wing pro trumpists or anti-trumpists with podcasts who talk about this is what nazi germany is like if you try to put regulations on facebook. no, these are companies that operate in the free market. first of all, they can make the choices. just like we do. i make the choice. you make the choice. micah makes the choice on who we allow on our air waves and who

we don't. the second part of it is, and this is what i hate so much about section 230 that grants full immunity to people like, oh, they're third parties. >> yeah. they're having a big rally at the capitol and they want to kill people and take down. >> they killed people. >> they're saying it. >> they're liars, so they destroy democracy, they're third parties, you can't sue us for that. listen, that's like us saying that we could get a tape -- it's funny. i'm holding a videotape right now. it's not a vhs. it's a beta. but somebody could click and send us a video and it could, by their standards, it could lie about anybody. it could accuse anybody of murder. it could accuse anybody of rape and we could just roll them aday. here is a tape of somebody beating up somebody. here is a tape.

we could do that under the facebook standard, under the twitter standard, right? and they couldn't do anything to us. oh, but wait a second, we actually have regulations that are put on us that don't allow us to do that. it's actually -- it's called slander. it's called liable. i mean, this is again the widespread immunity for facebook. >> where they get the information. >> and social media is so outrageous. and that is, as we have been saying for years, where over 50% of americans get their news. >> yeah. and it's a breeding ground for what happened on jan 6th. the argument for years has been we're just sort of a town square. we open the gate. we let them in. we're not in charge of what happens once they're inside the party. that stopped on january 6th. the question that you were asking earlier is a good one. which is will this continue now?

will they realize that a lot of it was fomented on their platforms. will they continue to do it in the 30 hours from now when president trump is out of office. >> coming up keir simmons joins us with the first steps joe biden plans to take. we're back in a moment.

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million. covid tops a long list of issues that president joe biden will inherit tomorrow at noon, issues that impact america's standing on the world stage. joining us live from london is keir simmons with more of that. >> we have talked about china, iran, europe. most of all, we have talked about that key subject, which is the impact on american's standing in the world that the trump presidency has had. there is a new report out today that says that one in three europeans now think that america can't be trusted. it begins with a line that i think is really impactful. it says america has a new president. it does not have a new country. that view is what president biden, when he becomes president tomorrow, is going to want to try to change.

it's impossible to exaggerate how much the world will be watching. but they won't just be watching his words. they will be watching what he does and most of all, what he does first. president-elect biden will inherit a world where in many countries america's reputation is at an all-time low. the world will be watching this week in the final days of the tumultuous trump presidency. president-elect biden has been clear, repairing america's standing overseas will begin at home. he has a laundry list of issues that impact the united states image abroad, tackling right wing extremism, introducing a $1.3 trillion package to stabilize the economy and most importantly stopping the explosion of coronavirus across the country. >> the first thing to understand is that so long as covid rages out of control in the united states, we can't be effective

internationally. we are the sick child of the world right now. no one wants to hear from the united states until we get our own domestic crisis under control. >> how long does all of the attention need to be on solving the coronavirus? >> we have to fight covid, administer a vaccine program, rebuild our alliance structure and try to combat. no doubt this administration will be juggling a lot. >> biden plans to re-engage the world health organization after trump announced plans to withdraw last year, another move that will please america's allies biden has said he will rejoin the paris climate accord on day one. again, trump had pulled out. former secretary of state john kerry will be america's first ever climate czar. >> picking john kerry for that role demonstrated to the world and also specifically to the communities that are focussed on this issue so completely that

the u.s. is going to take climate change very seriously again and more seriously than ever. >> you could say president-elect biden is trying to control and undo as much of president trump's agenda as much as he can. america's tough approach to china one of the only likely exceptions. biden's staggering to do list will also include renegotiating the new start arms deal with russia set to expire in just four weeks while navigating tough diplomacy. promised retaliation over last year's federal agency hack, which is u.s. has blamed on russian intelligence. >> i promise you there will be a response. >> he will have to manage all this while turning the page on president trump's questionable relationship with president

putin. >> the biden administration recognizes the damage the trump administration has done to the reputation of the united states and even damage to the brand of democracy because america represents democracy to many folks around the world. so what happened at the capitol, what happened for four years of trumpism is something they have to be care about as they talk about foreign policy as a theme of their agenda. >> president biden will take office with an immense international inbox. as of 12:01 p.m. on wednesday, he will be responsible for america's next chapter. you could say that biden leaves a strong sense of american exceptionism. what he needs to restore is america the indepenceable, to put america's role in the world, its importance in the world back if you like. that is not going to be easy. let me give you two examples.

germany now has china as its biggest trading partner in merchandise. it was building a pipeline with russia until congress tried to intervene and that could have been prevented. that gives you a picture of the challenges. to describe it here in a different way, people here really believe in president-elect biden. the question is do they still believe in america. >> yeah. keir simmons, thank you and thank you for that reference to my father. his report mentioned aleksi navalny and here's the latest to him. a russian court has ordered the prominent opponent of president vladimir putin to be held in jail for 30 days. navalny was arrested in moscow yesterday just as he landed in germany where he was being treated for being poisoned. last august, navalny fell into a coma during that flight in

russia after he was poisoned by the soviet era nerve agent. he was air lifted to berlin for treatment. yesterday navalny was rushed from the airport to a makeshift courtroom inside a police station. he faces another court decision that could put him behind bars for years over charges of embezzlement. in a video message yesterday navalny urged his supporters to take to the streets saying, quote, don't do it for me. do it for yourselves and for your future. the kremlin has repeatedly denied involvement in navalny's poisoning. >> of course they were responsible for his poisoning and of course this regime has been responsible for the assassinations of journalists, vladimir putin's political opponents, and they have done it in clear sight of the capitol and, you know, really i -- i

think back to my last meeting with john mccain on capitol hill, and john mccain held up those martyrs that vladimir putin had assassinated and said we as americans had to hold him, had to hold russia accountable. and just you look at the republican party now and just how sad and pathetic it is that the president, the secretary of state, all the people over the past four years around donald trump have refused to hold russia accountable. and this is just the latest example of it. not a word from donald trump about this arrest. not a word from donald trump about bounties on the head of american troops. not a word from donald trump other than being an apologist for vladimir putin about them

trying to interfere in american elections. it continues. it does. >> it does. secretary of state mike pompeo put out a statement condemning the arrest of navalny yesterday, but that comes late in the process. held sin ski, two presidents from, as we stood on the stage next to vladimir putin to condemn him for interfering in the 2016 election, he took a pass on that and he took a pass again and again and again over four years of his presidency of criticizing vladimir putin for very low hanging fruit, as you point out, the bounties on american soldiers. think about that, he couldn't bring himself, the president, to criticize russia for that and in this case for the poisoning of a disdant in russia. for four years president trump did not want to cross vladimir putin. >> and coming up, the president's club. our next guest literally wrote the book on it. where joe biden fits in and how

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what are you going to do on the 21st when you wake up? >> here is one thing is i'm not setting my alarm. that i'm certain of. that i am absolutely positive

of. i'm going to spend time with michelle and, yeah, we got some catching up to do. we both have been busy. >> president barack obama back in 2017 envisioning his first day as a former president. joining us now, former editor in chief of "time," nancy gibbs, co-author of the book "the president's club," inside the world's most exclusive fraternity. and also with us presidential historian michael besh loss. where do we begin with how different this is going to be. >> you know, nancy, you and michael have -- >> one day. >> you've written the book on the president's club. it's extraordinary. and what i found so interesting is that whether it was a transfer of power between truman and ike, whether it was the very funny in parts unintentionally funny transfer between ike and

jfk. i mean, you name it. people that don't especially like each other or even respect each other have figured out a way to do this with the grace and the dignity that the obamas showed, that truman showed, that eisenhower showed, that every president has shown. that the carters. my god, the carters were heartbroken, but were so dignified when the reagans came into office. so this really is a breach. >> it really is. it's very different. and, you know, one thing that's remarkable is, of course, you know, joe biden recognizes the power of seeing former presidents together and that's what we'll see at arlington tomorrow, it's an incredible signal of continuity, of the larger bipartisan purpose of the club, that you do what is best for the country. and that's why even -- as you say those presidents didn't much like each other still found ways

to work together. think of that note that president bush left for president clinton saying i am rooting for you to succeed. and that has been the motto of the club all along, that the good of the country comes first and they find ways to help one another. >> and michael beschloss, we have so many examples of that, i mean george h.w. bush brokenhearted when he lost and confounded you this guy, how bill clinton of all people, that most of his supporters didn't think was worthy of being an american president, how he wrote that note, showed great dignity, he stayed out of bill clinton's way, and in the process actually became a father figure to president clinton. >> whoever would have imagined? and you're absolutely right, joe, you know, the morning of the inauguration of 1993 barbara and george bush and their dog are standing on the front step.

clintons get out of the car and george bush shakes hands with chelsea and says welcome to your new home. that's the way it's supposed to be. and the other thing, joe, is that as you and willie and mika and nancy all know, ex-presidents are really expensive. we pay a lot of money for their staff, we pay for expenses of their offices. we pay for a lot of things. in donald trump's case, do we all want to pay for someone who may still be plotting against our government, who may be using our money to call up or communicate with people who are planning another insurrection? or let's talk about intelligence briefings. you know, as nancy has written, nixon used to send al haake his chief of staff down to texas to brief lbj personally about what was going on secretly in the vietnam war. is that what wasn't to do for donald trump? he might sell those secrets to a foreign power or to someone else. is he someone that a president

would want to lean on for diplomatic advice? hard to imagine. and the other thing is, you remember when osama bin laden was killed? barack obama got word to all the former presidents that he was about to announce that osama was finally gone, the scourge was over. are you really going to tell a secret like that to donald trump and expect him to keep that secret until the president speaks. >> god no. >> sometimes you can't suspend disbelief. >> it will be interesting to see if that standard is changed for donald trump. that's something that national security officials will have to grapple with. nancy, as we look at this inauguration tomorrow, the events before, during and after they've always been symbolic in many ways and we've taken them for granted in many ways but they have heightened importance this year. we're just getting word that joe biden invited mitch mcconnell to church with him tomorrow before the inauguration. mitch mcconnell has accepted. so we'll see joe biden and mitch mcconnell. someone who sort of went along for a while here after the

election with the idea that it ought to be investigated whether or not joe biden actually was elected president. joe biden's going to invite him there. joe biden's welcoming mike pence to the inauguration. obviously he's not going to have that moment where donald trump and melania welcome the bidens to the white house. i think joe biden is perhaps just as happy to miss that. but why are these moments so important as we look at them in a new light now? >> well, right now they're especially important. and joe biden has signalled this all the way through, that he is going to be the president of all americans, whether or not they voted for him and that was never the signal that president trump was sending. president trump's signal was much more transactional. if you voted for me i will remain loyal to you. and so this is a very different kind of moment that we're moving into. and i think president-elect biden is doing everything he can to make that very clear. >> nancy, i want to ask about

the first lady also. i mean, absolute rudeness on the part of the trumps and on the part of melania trump, not reaching out and doing is ceremonial symbolic part of this. to what gain, breaking these norms in a way that just shows that they are sore losers, there's no other way to put it, but it's also important to show that unity on every level, and they're choosing not to do it. >> i know. it's -- you know, the families, the first families also serve the public in all sorts of ways and there's a bond between them, between first ladies, between the children of presidents because, you know, their privacy disappears, their lives are completely upended and there is a kind of -- an extended club among all of them. and i think it's -- it isn't like joe biden needs anyone to show her around the white house. she knows perfectly well just as

joe biden does. but so, again, this is where the symbolism becomes so much more important in this case than the substance and i think the country, what all the presidents have always known is the country likes to see them working together. they liked to see president bush and president clinton sitting together or working on relief for hurricane katrina together because it was a constant reminder that our presidents are meant to serve all of us. and so missing the opportunity for that symbolism, especially at a moment when the country is so divided, is really a loss for everyone. and such a tragic missed opportunity on the part of melania trump as well. >> and i want to ask you, michael beschloss, why is it, why is it especially in these partisan times that we love to see the presidents together, so many americans are comforted by george w. bush four years ago going, man, that was some weird

stuff, saying that to hillary clinton. but also george w. bush and michelle obama becoming good friends and connecting, it seems, in a special way. we've already brought up bill clinton and george h.w. bush. but, you know, ike had very little use for jfk, but after kennedy ran into some real problems, what did he do? he called ike. after the bay of pigs, called him up to camp david and ike sat there and walked him through it, helped him out because that's what we're supposed to do as a nation. >> that's it and we want all of our presidents and former presidents working together, you know, to protect all of our families and to protect our democracies. democracy, that's why this is all so weird. you know, mika was talking about melania trump.

well, the obamas, about two days after the election of 2016, president obama had president-elect trump to the oval office. michelle obama had melania trump to the yellow oval room upstairs. do you think she enjoyed entertaining a woman who with her husband had charged her husband with lying about the circumstances of his birth and lying about his religion? mrs. obama didn't. but the difference is, some people in life are givers and some people are takers. the obamas were givers, and i think the trumps have shown, in all sorts of ways, sadly, that they are takers. >> michael beschloss and nancy gibbs, thank you both. >> said very well. >> it's time now for final thoughts on this final day of the trump presidency. it's so weird. willie geist. >> i will just say briefly what should have happened probably sometime over the last year is happening on the final day of the trump presidency and that is

there will be a speech on the steps of the lincoln memorial tonight commemorating the 400,000 victims of covid. it will be made, though, by joe biden and kamala harris, not by president trump. >> all right. and you were looking at where that will be. and of course our hearts and prayers go out to the families of the 400,000 victims of covid and all of those who are still suffering today, fighting for their very lives. that does it for us this morning. thank you so much for watching. and for watching. and god bless america. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. god bless america. hi there, i'm stephanie ruhle, live in washington, d.c., a city that has gone through hell over the last two weeks. now preparing for one of its most important roles, hosting the inauguration of our next president, joe biden. but it won't look like anything we have ever seen before. it is tuesday, j