we're going to walk down to the capitol, because you'll never take back our country with weakness. >> he unleashed an all-out assault. >> they were provoked by the president. >> knock, knock, we're here! >> he must be removed from office. >> we love you. you're very special. >> where the [ bleep ] are they. >> whose house! our house! >> good evening.

i'm ari melber, joining you live right now, 10:00 p.m. on the east coast for this msnbc special, "trump on trial." we'll see damning evidence. tomorrow, speaker pelosi formally begins the process where the appointed managers will walk the articles of impeachment from the house to the senate and thus walk into the very crime scene where the insurrectionists breached. for the charged insurrection of a mob. then i could tell you that a formal summons will also be delivered this tuesday, and soon the grand senate chamber, breached by the rioters will become a courtroom, filled with

senate jurors who were also witnesses to the attack. and those jurors will hear from nine different house managers presenting evidence of those crimes committed on camera in an attack that left five dead, including a capitol police officer. experts say some of the most damning evidence on donald trump's role will come from the rioters themselves after hearing directly from the president himself before the crime spree at the capitol. >> we're going to walk down, and i'll be there with you. we're going to walk down. we're going to walk down. anyone you want, but i think right here. we're going to walk down to the capitol. and we're going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women, and we're probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them. because you'll never take back our country with weakness.

>> we don't know exactly what will happen at the trial, but we do know how it will be different. this time the man being judged has no government power. no white house council. no formal role. and convicted, they can bar him from ever running for office again. good evening to both of you. impeachment hits the senate tomorrow. joyce, your view of the import of doing this amid so many other big things going on? >> well, it's important to do things, and ari, i think the senate actually can walk and chew gum at the same time. we're about to find out for sure. but it's incumbent upon them to

consider the impeachment article that comes from the house because of the serious nature of the conduct here. and for those who would say it's not important because trump is out of office, the key thing to remember here as you point out is that one of the remedies for impeachment is disqualification from holding office in the future. so, to those who say there's no need to impeach because trump is already out of office, that sort of argument proves a little bit too much. it proves the need to disqualify him permanently and absolute moral imperative of going ahead with impeachment in the senate. >> senator, i want to draw your attention to what the current senators are doing. we have reporting on how it's dividing the republican caucus, the "new york times" and cnn have a report, i'll put this up on the screen, that mitch mcconnell may want trump gone and even now some former trump officials are lobbies for trump's conviction, one

republican leader saying this is now in the gop's interest. do we get this, do we get those 17 votes. and the split is playing out in public. >> the article of impeachment that was sent over by the house suggests impeachable conduct, but we have not yet heard either from the prosecution or from the defense, i'll get a chance to hear from them, and i will do my best as a senate juror to apply justice as i understand it. >> i think the trial is stupid, counter productive. >> it sets a bad precedent and continues to divide the nation. >> i will do what i am required and entrusted to do as a senator, as effectively listening to that trial. >> our live special coverage continues. senator, your response to what we just heard there. >> constitution provides just

that the president should be held accountable. you know, i heard people on some of the shows today saying well, let's let it go. we've got so much other business. let it go. listen, we are all witnesses to what he did, inciting people to come to washington for this wild time, and then inciting them to go to the capitol and to take their government back and, you know, the fact is, he did send a mob to capitol hill, and i think he has to be held accountable for that. i just believe that you just can't say let's just let this go. that's not what the constitution would require us to do. >> emily, your views legal lay, because this is fundamentally supposed to be a constitutional process. how quickly we've heard some say oh, what if this isn't good for the short-term plan or goals of the new administration, which happens to be democratic. but to the extent this is a serious process, it should not

matter whether it hurts any or either party, i believe the question, and walk us through your view of it is, whether this, a, is constitutionally necessary, and b, if convicted, if guilty, whether the united states has an interest in preventing the supporter of an insurrection from ever retaking the white house. >> right, so we're talking about two separate votes. the first is whether the senate will convict by a super majority, and the second is whether there would be a separate majority vote to prevent former president trump from holding office again. and so because the second vote is so clearly still on the table and an open question for the country, i think that adds urgency to this issue of impeachment, and what's really important is to have a fair trial, so that all the senators can heart evidence, weigh what happened. i also think there's some important questions that we don't know the answer to about who may have been communicating with the people who the mob

broke in. and also why there was such a delay in responding, and i would hope that an impeachment trial would try to illuminate those questions. >> these are questions of the highest national security order. you could have journalists dig it up. we'll do our part, right? you could have independent investigations dig it up over time. could you have blue ribbon collisions set up for years on this. this is one of the clearest, most powerful ways for the senate to use these authorities, and by the way, as with any trial, if they find information that goes a different direction they should fairly follow that. i want to play to remind everyone and to remind you you haven't change add bit during what you said during the clinton trial about your role, take a look. >> this is truly a drama with no

heroes. this drama goes on and on, and there clearly are no heros in this drama that we've been going through. my role is not in this trial and in this circumstance to defend the president. my role is to defend the constitution. >> from your personal experience, your views about how that applies to this question as emily presented it and to these senators today who will get this starting tomorrow. >> yeah, i mean, i think that's what this is, and the question will be, particularly, on the republican side of the aisle, are there members of the united states senate who are prepared to really take a look at this and understand what really happened. as i just said to you, we are all witnesses. it's really something to me, they talk about calling witnesses. the american people are witnesses to what happened. this president has said for six months, if i lose this election it's because it's stolen, it was rigged, it's a fraud.

then when he lost the election by some 7 million or 8 million votes he called all those people to come to washington, d.c. to protest and be angry, and he incited them. people are dead, and i think there has to be some accountability. these senators that i heard who said let it go because we're busy, maybe we should hold this president after four long years, finally accountable. >> with that in mind, emily, what is your view of the new reporting as a bombshell to everything that's going on that broke in the "new york times," that donald trump tried to illegally use the justice department to steal the election results, beyond which what we already knew. mr. trump basically trying to start an end run around georgia and mr. clark made his competing case. in a bizarre white house meeting

officials compared to an episode of trump's reality show "the apprentice", all be it one that could trump the current crisis. >> you see here allegations from the top of the justice department about former president trump trying to abuse his power. that's what that is a story about. and these are the top people at the justice department, trump appointees all, saying that they had locked arms and promised themselves they would resign if he fired jeffrey rosen. and trumpeted it from the top of the justice department in an evident to intimidate georgia. i think given the scope here, it would be really good to ask some questions about it, hear from some witnesses so we get a factual account in front of all

of us, and so that the senate can judge. >> joyce, does the fact that that effort coincided with the exact pin point of the date, january 6th, where donald trump thought he had some effort at a plot, some way that he could combine this illegal shakedown that would stop with a public pressure campaign, which he, which he summoned to washington, does that make the evidence against him in the senate trial worse? >> so it's an interesting question, ari, because the senate isn't constrained by the sorts of burden of proof that would apply for trump's intend. i think the conjunction of dates is absolutely fascinating, because trump has always been about trying to cheat. the first impeachment was about trying to keep biden from being

named the nominee through ukraine. so we have this through-line of misconduct by trump. he continues his efforts in georgia, tries to get doj to help him. and when that didn't work he goes out to the e-lipps on january 6. >> senator? >> you remember the quote from president trump when he said i could shoot somebody on fifth avenue in new york and not lose any supporters? i've watched in the united states senate for four years, a good number of senators who know better who have largely excused either through silence or just excused the behavior of president trump. and some of it is just embarrassing. some has been dangerous, and i think some has been near criminal. and i think it's time. it really is time in the senate to demand accountability with respect to this president, that he's gone.

but i still believe there's an opportunity and a need for the senate to have this trial, you know. i hope it doesn't last a great length, but, again, as i said, all americans are witnesses to what happened. it's not as if we don't know what happened. >> yeah. it's all so important, which is why we're digging into some of this tonight, as we also cover and think about a lot of issues. i want to thank senator and our other guests. coming up, we will break doubt prosecution's case. a live interview with the house impeachment manager, and the video of the insurrection itself. you're watching "trump on trial." watching "trump on trial. by going all in. the new lexus is. with a lower center of gravity, a more responsive suspension,

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good evening. i'm ari melber. welcome back to our live, spesh coverage on the trump

impeachment hitting the senate tomorrow. now we turn to where the worst evidence is on video. did trump incite this, as we just discussed with the house impeachment manager and was this an insurrection. in an effort to show what happened, a fair trial must appraise the evidence of this violent attack on the government to determine what this was. >> take back our country with weakness. we're going to walk down to the capitol. >> the capitol steps are now jammed with people. they have now taken hold of those steps. >> oh, they're going in! [ bleep ] >> go, go, go, go. >> there are now protesters inside the capitol building itself. >> [ bleep ], [ bleep ]. >> they evacuated the

leadership, and then started an evacuation of house members. >> hang mike pence! >> we were surrounded by rioters who were trying to ram and break down the doors and break down the glass. >> [ bleep ]. >> the woman who was shot inside the u.s. capitol today has died. >> the vicious severity of the attackers is evidence of a deliberate insurrection. and wanting to assassinate mike pence and others. beating a police officer with flagpoles, openly plotting to murder him. >> guys were like, grabbing gear off my vest, and i remember guys chanting, like, kill him with his own gun. >> focus on overtaking the u.s. government by breaching the capitol and overwhelming police

is important. newly-released video shows an attacker throwing a chair and harassing an officer. >> oh, oh, oh, oh! >> oh, oh, oh, you're scared now, mother [ bleep ]. >> these are all crimes, and the senate has to be sure they amount to an insurrection and that trump incited it. this is where the words and actions of trump's biggest fans may be used against him. she flew from dallas and is clear about her motive. >> our president, president donald trump, asked us to go to the march on the 6th. and he said be there. and so i went. and i answered the call of my president. >> from a legal view, if people talk like that but didn't commit

insurrection, it might provide a defense for trump. or if an insurrection happened but with no direct link to him, that's another defense. but mounting defense needs factual points. evidence as an insurrection as many perpetrators put it, they were only in town because trump asked. they only breached it because trump asked them to fight. and after five people lost their lives in the attack and the extreme violence was caught on tape, it must be used as literal evidence. >> i felt like my presence on the state capitol steps was more important to me than my very life. >> one thing is not up for debate. there can be no accountability without facts, and coming up next, very a house manager who will be making the case against trump. ase against trump. 12 with 5g.

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welcome back to our special, "trump on trial." for the case against him we're going to hear from one of the congresswomen making it. here is some of the evidence, donald trump's own words. >> and we're going to have to fight much harder. we're going to walk down to the capitol. you'll never take back our country with weakness. >> that's what trump told them. and here's what they told the world as so much of this insurrection was broadcast, tragically live in real time. they told the world they were acting in response to him. >> we were invited here! we were invited! hey, we were invited here! we were invited by the president of the united states! >> house managers also can cite criminal filings by independent

prosecutors which note attackers themselves said they followed, quote, the president's instructions, including donald trump's call to quote, go down there and be taking pennsylvania avenue. now, as promised, we have a very newsworthy guest on our live special, democrat congresswoman who is a prosecutor in the bronx. thank you first of all for being here. >> thanks, thanks for having me. thanks for doing this. ? >> well, we're looking at something significant, starting tomorrow. >> mm-hm. >> could you begin by telling us what tomorrow means? what does it mean to walk this article into the senate, and what is the case that you intend to make? >> well, i think people should understand that all nine of us, the impeachment managers,

speaker pelosi, really see this as a solemn occasion, this is not something that we do with great, you know, it's not frivolous and people are not happy to have to do this. this is a sain on our democracy, but we will take the article of impeachment over to the senate and present that to them, and then we'll begin the trial of our president, of former president donald trump in the senate, for what we believe to be one of the most heinous crimes against our country in its existence. something that the founders anticipated and put in guardrails against. that being a despot, drunk with power, trying to keep his grip on power and using the people of this country to try and stage an insurrection. >> i'm curious if you could walk us through how much your case will focus on sort of the tight leadup to that crime spree, the

events of january 6th and right before and how much is it necessary for you to try to convince these senate jurors of intent and why this was really what donald trump meant to do, not withstanding other ideological political disagreements. i want to play briefly, he has long advocated violence in the united states. take a look. >> knock the crap out of him, would you? seriously. i will pay for the legal fees, i promise. like to punch him in the face, i'll tell you. >> congresswoman? >> well, i don't want to give anything away as to our strategy or what the trial will look like, but i will say this, that president trump has engaged in a prolonged effort to overturn the results of the 2020 election and spent months spreading disinformation and the results falsely claiming that he had won

by a landslide, and he stated it would be illegitimate to accept those results, and then he brought individuals to washington, d.c. on january 6th, make no mistake that that was an extremely important date in his mind and in our constitution's time, because there was a time where the entire body of congress along with the vice president would-be president present at the capitol to fulfill our duties, that being to certificate five the election, and with that, he knew who the individuals were, who would be coming, what they would do and what hold he had over them. it was absolutely foreseeable that what happened did happen. it's bad enough that we have a president who wanted to obstruct justice, who wanted to obstruct a free and fair election, who did not want the fulfillment of constitution, but the worst part

that he did it through attack, assault, mayhem, vandalism, the attempted assassination of the vice president and the speaker of the house, potential attempt to kidnap members of congress and the fulfillment of felony murder as well. all for his own self-aggrandizement. absolutely shameful. >> yeah, you said you're not previewing every aspect of the case, but as a broad opening argue, given the sense that this is hitting the senate tomorrow, that's strong. i also want to give you a chance to respond to what some of donald trump's defenders or others are saying. one of the arguments, legally, is to say that the words that he spoke on january 6th would not, they argue, legally be enough to form the basis for the removal or conviction of a president. they point to examples and

headlines throughout history where political rhetoric is quite violent and sometimes even accompany allegations of violence or violence. for example on the trump side, you had his own folks saying oh, chief krebs should be taken out and shot, that's tough, bad talk, doesn't mean you lose your job automatically. reporting on an anti-white nationalist protester and violent rhetoric. and one thing that trump folks have pointed to, take a look for example at this statement. >> make the phone call, send the e-mail, show up. you know, there needs to be unrest in the streets for as long as there's unrest in our lives. >> well, i will say this. >> i will just say one item and

i want to let you respond. defenders of each of those would give context and say, in a greater context, it may mean something different, or only the action and not the words matter. and so what i want to let, give you the benefit of responding to, what if people say that about this very reviled figure, but this person and say, well, maybe he needs a wider context. your response to all the above. >> sure. first, let's start from a macro area, right? all speech is not free speech. we always use the euphemism you can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater. trump not only yelled "fire", he started the fire in the theater and told people to ignite it in this instance. that's not covered speech. and we're talking about the president of the united states. this is not every and all individuals. this is not members of congress. this is not the senators.

this is the president of the united states. who has a unique position and an ability to galvanize individuals in a very special way. he knew that. it was foreseeable for him what he was going to do. >> and he did exactly what he said was going to happen. it was going to be wild. so i wouldn't look at the language of what others have done and put it in the same context as the president of the united states. listen, what he has done is unworthy of the office. it is not a right for him to be president. and in talking to some of the arguments that my colleagues or others would make, we are not just asking for the removal of the president. we are asking for the disqualification. and this trial, while we are trying donald trump, we are saying to the world to all americans that this kind of action will not stand. that our democracy may have been battered by donald trump and those mobsters, but that we have an obligation to draw the line

at what we will and will not accept from our leaders, from the president going henceforth. >> congresswoman, i really appreciate you joining our special coverage. i know it's a busy time. so thank you, and i think many people, ourselves included, will be watching you forcefully and solemnly walk the articles of impeachment over to the senate tomorrow. thank you for your time. >> i appreciate it. thank you so much. >> absolutely. now we turn to former federal prosecutor john flannery. good evening, sir. >> good evening. good to see you. >> good to see you. what do you see as the strongest and most-important thrust of the case that these house managers will have to make? >> i think they should be trying the senate and not just trump, because we have the enemy within the senate as we do in the house. those who prefer autocracy.

trump invited an insurrection by his tweets, then he brought them there, they acknowledge that he brought them there for that purpose. then we have the three amigos who tell them what to do. we have trump. we have his mouthpiece, rudy giuliani. and his son, all telling them to go there and to do something and to take it over because the vice president isn't going to do what's necessary and you have to make it happen. and i think that's a fair paraphrase of what he did, and he did everything he could to do nothing while it happened. and we're still investigating how many other things he did. i think as a threshold question, if you're really trying to see who the enemy is within. you have to have what lawyers call voir dire. and you have to take the voir dire of the seven senators who said that we still object after the riot had occurred.

and this is a motion that i would make on the first day. yes? >> john, this is a serious time, as the manager reminded us, but knowing you, if you had the opportunity to cross examine and voir dire and press senator cruz as a potential juror, i can only imagine how that would go, sir. i want to play something that is serious. for our context and your legal analysis. >> yes, sir. >> let me play and then i'm going to ask you, let me play serious stuff, what officials warned about, pleading with donald trump to stop because someone would get hurt, take and look. >> stop inspiring people to commit potential violence. someone's going to get hurt. someone's going to get shot. someone's going to get killed. >> five people were killed or died on january 6. you can make a legal determination about each death. five dead. in your view, does it strengthen the case, to put this in legal

or constitutional framework, this was foreseeable. indeed it was foreseen and publicly warned about. >> yes, indeed. michigan was a terrible case in which we were going through, they were going to take the governor of the state away and perhaps kill her. we have talks here about hanging the vice president of the united states for doing what is constitutional requirements were, which were to merely count the votes. we also had threats to the speaker of the house. this is an insurrection with great danger, and, you know, we didn't have an inauguration like we normally do. 24,000 troops to protect us against an ongoing insurrection involving these terrorists at the beck and call of trump. and every one of those republicans in the house, who voted for impeachment in the resolution, every one of them is besieged by claims of primary challengers, and no, you know, no less than bannon is podcasting against one of these

members of congress. having been pardoned by the president. this is the most severe and dangerous event i think in the history the united states. that we're at a point between democracy and autocracy. and neither hawley nor cruz have shown any contrition since. >> yeah, all-important point. and really important to hear it from a manager, john flannery, we always come through on the other side a little more informed. thank you, sir. >> thank you. nice to be with you. >> good to be with you, and i wish you a good, peaceful end to your weekend. when we come back, we turn to one of the hardest questions to defendant trump. if you claimed nonviolence for years, how can you claim this time you didn't mean it. can yo time you didn't mean it.

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the impeachment articles reach the senate tomorrow, amidst reports that donald trump is struggling to get his own past lawyers to take this assignment. jay sekulow, not currently on board, we pressed him on those legal issues at the time, while attorney alan dershowitz is saying he won't defend trump at this one. we also prep and fact checked

him during interviews in that trial as any truly fair case requires hearing and testing both arguments from the prosecution and defense. now tonight we turn to someone who is standing by trump, a veteran of both trump campaigns and the trump white house where he was a special assistant and a licensed attorney with a jd from georgetown law. >> thank you for having me and a wonderful reading of my resume. >> let me start with the legal problems facing the president. encouraging violence by supporters for years, trying to illegally steal the 2020 election, trying to use that january 6 certification to overthrow the result. that was his goal, that's not in doubt. summons supporters on january 6, telling them to march on the capitol and quote fight, and now

steve bannon said on january 5th, the day before, that the rally would be extraordinarily different. all i can say is "strap in." your response to all of that evidence offered that donald trump was inciting this. >> thanks so much, ari. all that evidence is absolute nonsense. i was at the speech on january 6th. and president trump said specifically, i'm surprised you didn't put this quote up there, that people should march peacefully and patriotically to the capitol. peacefully and patriotically, no incitement there whatsoever. in terms of trying to steal the election, talking about election fraud, voter fraud, bringing up specifics, talking about over 200,000 unlawful ballots in wisconsin, over 400,000 allegedly illegitimate ballots in georgia, it's toward discussing election fraud and multiple violations of article

ii of the constitution that occurred throughout the past election. >> boris, you're quoting some of donald trump's words on january 6. but as you know as a lawyer, the fact that there was a word that was not illegal or acceptable doesn't cancel everything out. if tony soprano orders a hit. >> oh, come on, ari. >> and then says be peaceful, it doesn't cancel it out. this is going to be at the trial. there isn't a factual debate over donald trump encouraging violence. you know he's done that for years. >> yes, there's room for debate. >> you've done this before, you know how these interviews work. does your argument boil down to the claim that while he did encourage violence in the past he didn't mean it on january 6. >> it has vectors. one, the election was unconstitutional. you cannot have an impeachment trial nor a former president. the whole structure of impeachment is structured around

an individual currently president. the trial is unconstitutional. number two -- >> let me take these number one. you said number one, we'll put up number one. that former officials. we're going to go in order. we can both count. former officials can be banned in office. that is. >> you're basing that on what? >> let me read, you'll find out along with everyone else. the constitution empowers the senate to bar convicted officials from office. the thing you just referred to has already happened and the senate has convicted officials after they've left office. i need to have our viewers to have those facts. >> you reference bell map, the 1876 issue around the secretary of war, he was never convicted by the senate.

there has never been a trial over a former president. we don't know who presides, the chief justice presides over a trial of a current president. only powers given are to remove and disqualify. >> that was your point one. since we can both count. that was one. i've fact checked it. do you want to go on to two? >> number two, the president has already stated, march peacefully and patriotically. if you look at the timeline, the video, the riot at the capitol, which i absolutely condemn, as has the president, started before the president was done speaking. that's number two. number three, it is not -- >> stay on number two. i told you we'd go piece by piece. you're going two to three, boris, i got to hang you up. number two, okay, i want to play for you donald trump, what he said about these rioters. what he said to incite, what he

said, calling them "special", and all that, even after their crimes were on air, take a look at that, the praise. >> and we're going to have to fight much harder. you'll never take back our country with weakness. >> the people of the country ar angry. we fight. we fight like hell. we love you, you're very special. >> you didn't play the go home in peace part. >> i want you to respond, sir. hold on. this is serious business. >> it's so funny. >> we love you. you're very special. he said it to the people you saw on screen while they did their crimes. was that wrong? should he take it back? do you love them? are they still very special? >> i love how fired up you are, but you did not play the part where the president specifically condemned violence, specifically said go home in peace. that was completely selective. frankly that's a joke. you should fire whoever put that together. that was disgusting -- >> we're not here for your

advice to do what we do. you're out of order. final question on mitch mcconnell. listen to mitch mcconnell. take a listen. >> the mob was fed lies. they were provoked by the president and other powerful people. and they tried to use fear and violence to stop a specific proceeding of the first branch of the federal government, which they did not like. >> republican leader senator mcconnell says donald trump provoked this. is he right or wrong? >> wrong, i disagree with leader mcconnell. the third point is this. it is not incitement, it is not insurrection. it's not sedition to talk about voter fraud, election fraud. it is not insurrection to oppose and raise objections. nancy pelosi supported objections to the certification of president trump's selection in 2016. raskin, one of the managers for the house democrats, has brought up objections before. it is under the united states

constitution. it is pursuant to our first amendment to make these statements to object and to discuss the real election fraud, the real voter fraud that happened in this last election. >> boris, you got your time, some of which you said was false and we clarified that in real time for the viewers. some of that you said was your rightful defense of donald trump. thank you for coming on. >> thanks for having me on. >> thank you. up ahead, the time line of the trial when we return. when we ren muscle pain. give up, the couch is calling. i say, it's me, the couch, i'm calling. pain says you can't. advil says you can.

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