the house landscape is different. if they want to win the majority, they have to win in blue districts. thank you, hans nichols. we appreciate you getting up early this morning. we are seeing republican politicians shatter to shift with the wind as they facedown this impeachment trial. we are still in the crews bell of history and the decisions that are made, the things that are said will be remembered in my history books. that would be my only message on this monday. thank you for getting up "way too early" with us. "morning joe" starts now. >> i saw the president presenting graphs that i made. so i know that someone, someone out there or someone inside was creating a parallel set of data and graphics that were shown to the president. i know what i sent up. and i know what was in his hands was different than that. you can't to that. you have to use the entire -- >> who was doing this?

>> to this day, i don't know. >> okay. the doctors are now speaking out. last week we heard dr. anthony fauci talk about how liberated he feels working with the biden administration. and now dr. deborah birx is also explaining how difficult things were working under donald trump. good morning and welcome to "morning joe". it is monday, january 25th. we have whose reporter for associated press, jonathan lemire, "washington post" david ignatius is with us this morning, founder and director of the group defending democracy together and editor-at-large at the bulwark, bill crystal is with us. and "new york times" reporter and msnbc national security analyst, michael schmidt. joe and willie have the morning off, which means we won't be spending the first 10 minutes of the show talking about the nfl playoffs. we'll get to tom brady and how

great he is in just a moment. first, house speaker nancy pelosi said the article of impeachment accusing former president donald trump of inciting the capitol riot will be transmitted to the senate today. it comes nearly two weeks after the house voted to impeach. the trial, however, is not expected to begin in ernest until february 8th, after senate leaders struck a deal to give trump's attorneys more time to prepare. ahead of the impeachment trial this morning, we have new information on just how far donald trump was willing to go to overturn president biden's win. in early january, former president trump had a meeting to discuss replacing acting attorney general jeffrey rosen with someone more willing to help him stay in office. according to the "washington post", trump wanted to replace rosen with jeffrey clark, head of doj's environment and natural

resources division after clark tried to press the acting a.g. to per sue baseless claims of voter fraud on the president's behalf. sources also told the paper clark also wanted him to wrongly inform tkpa legislators the department was investigating fraud claims in their state and that they should void the state's results. pat cipollone was in the meet with trump, rosen and clark and pushed back on changing attorney generals and against filing a supreme court case to overturn the election, an idea noted by trump's outside attorneys. he warned of mass resignations at doj if the plan went through, according to people familiar with the meeting. michael schmidt, i'm beginning to think, as trump's attorneys

maybe beg for time to prepare, the time is actually what is needed for everything to come out. and it's probably not on trump's side. because as we learn more, it only gets worse. >> yeah. and it's -- in some ways, it's very new and it gives us a very good insight into what was going on around the election. throughout the president's term, he has tried as hard as he could to use the justice department to help him politically. time and time again he ran into problems. he was most successful when he was able to sort of obstruct and to throw barriers up for them, to stop them from looking into things he thought could be damaging to him, where he struggled was to get them to go to the offense and to investigate his rivals and do things like that. and it's what we see in this example is one of the most

glaring ones of him pushing as hard as he can, to the point of being told by white house counsel he would suffer an immense political cost for it. now, obviously the president was willing to do a lot of things that damaged him politically. this teams like, even for the president, it was going to be too far. if he had had mass resignations at the justice department in the weeks leading up to the end of his presidency, obviously that would have, you know, put even more pressure on the senate coming up here around impeachment. but as you point out, questions about this, about what he was had he trying to do with the justice department were not examined in the impeachment articles that were sent over. they're not part of what the senate will be looking at. and you sort of wonder what more time would uncover about them. >> jonathan lemire, what are you

hearing? this is your first monday i guess waking up not coughing the first trump white house. what's that like? >> well, first of all, it's my first monday by the biden white house, and i didn't wake up by tweet. that's a step in the right direction. the biden white house view the upcoming senate trial is an unwelcomed distraction. there's nothing they can do about it. we are pleased with this two-week pause, which gives lawmakers time to work on this massive covid relief bill, which we will talk about later. the moment it seems pretty stalled. it gives the senate more time to confirm biden appointees, get his cabinet members in place. they are key indeed on that. only two at this point have come in. the trump world of course is watching these revelations with some trepidation. and i wanted to get your take on this.

each day nearly that goes by from the capitol hill insurrection, to see the violent siege of trump supporters there, that we are learning more and more damaging information about not just what happened that day but that day was not the only moment in which the trump and his supporters made efforts to overturn this election in an extraordinarily blatant way, whether it was pressuring officials in georgia or now even looking to overhaul the department of justice in order to get it to do its bidding. i want to ask you if you have ever seen anything like that in your overall take. with the senate trial not starting for a few weeks and some republicans being up for tprabs, including mitch mcconnell's, could this lead moreirense to feel it is politically safe to break away. is it pobl they will vote to convict and bar him from forever

holding office again? . >> we don't have your mic there. david ignatius, told by and hold that thought because we want to hear it. let's look at some of the arguments we are hearing from senate republicans so far. listen. well, first of all, i think the trial is stupid. i think it's counterproductive. we already have a flaming fire in this country. it is like taking gasoline and throwing it on top of the trial. . >> it is beyond the senate's constitutional authority. i think a lot of americans are going to think it is strange that the senate is spending its time trying to convict and remove from office a man who left office a week ago. . >> do you believe donald trump committed an impeachable offense? >> to begin with, i think it's a moot point. i think right now donald trump is no longer the president. he is a former president. yes. they are trying to prevent him

from running again because he committed crimes against our country. let's put that aside. house leader kevin mccarthy doing his best to have his cake and eat it too. let's go through his waffling. mccarthy got into a screaming match with president trump, called on him to release a statement denouncing that mob that stormed the capitol. he stood up. on january 12th, "axios" reported in a tense phone call with trump, mccarthy told the president it wasn't antifa at the capitol. he said, quote, it's maga. i know. i was there. and here's what mccarthy said on january 13th. >> the president bears responsibility for wednesday's attack on congress by mob rioters. he should have immediately denounced the mob when he saw what was unfolding. >> yes. correct.

but then after a week of saying the president bearings responsibility for the capitol attack, mccarthy said that. . >> -- former president trump and other important people provoked the folks who came to the capitol. do you believe former president trump provoked. . >> i don't believe he provoked it if you listen to what he said at the rally. . >> okay. now in an enter sraouf that aired last night, mccarthy is doing his best president trump after charlottesville there are bad people on both sides. remember that? he says everyone has some responsibility for the violence that broke out january 6th. >> i thought the president had some responsibility when it came to the response. if you listen to what the president said at the rally, he said demonstrate peacefully. i also think everybody across this country has some

responsibility. think about four years ago after president trump was sworn in. what happened the very next day? the title was resist. >> bill crystal, help me understand this man. . >> it's too depressing. gosh, can't we just enjoy tom brady's great victory. . >> right. . >> look, kevin mccarthy is the republican party today. he doesn't really like trump. to a degree he still has a conscious and principles. he's disturbed by some of the things trump did and didn't do. he is not going to take on the base of his party. it is a big base. people were saying why tonight they throw trump overboard. i would love it if they would. politically, they are scared to. some of them have internalized this to the degree they are not so opposed to pressure to violence, to intimidation if it's on their behalf. so what's happening is mccarthy

is a perfect example where the party is. the senate could be different. one of the biggest things that happened is the house voted almost 2-1 to overturn the election results in arizona, pennsylvania. really an astonishing thing. with kevin mccarthy voting yes, the leader of the republican party voting on the basis of no facts. no facts at all to overturn, to deny accreditation to the electors. of course 140 house republicans voted that way. it is unbelievable to me. the senate didn't. the senate is still a different body than the house. mitch mcconnell has a little more perspective. he has a six-year term. he was just re-elected. susan collins was re-elected. pat toomey isn't running for re-election. as more revelations came out, that you were saying, the senate will say we can't let this stand as acceptable practice.

i wish the impeachment article was written more broadly to capture everything the president did to try to overturn it. the president of the united states tried to overturn a free and fair election. that's it. the dereliction of duty to do anything about it is a very major part of it. i think the house impeachment managers know this. they will try to make the broader case to the senators. i don't think it's out of the question that some of the senators will decide they don't want to go down looking like kevin mccarthy. >> right. staff writer for the atlantic magazine, ann applebaum. coexistence is the only option is the title. you write outside politics,

outside the law, outside the norms, the seditionists have in fact, declared their independence from the rest of us. january 6th was indeed their 1776. they declared that they want to live in a different america from the one the rest of us inhabit, ruled over by a different president chosen according to a different rule book. yet they cannot be wished away, or sent away, or somehow locked up. they will not leave of their own accord, and americans who accept biden's lawful victory won't either. we have no chance except to coist. but how? the literally in the fields of peacebuilding and conflict prevention overflows with words such as local and community-paved and economic regeneration. it's built on the idea that people should do something constructive, something that

benefits even, and makes people work alongside people they hate. this might not build eternal friendships, butd together at a vaccination center that could conceivably be less likely to use pepper spray on each other at a demonstration afterward. up until the trump left, either criminal or illegal or show that there are soft holes in our democracy and our constitution that need to be shored up so we don't find ourselves in position like this. how do you weigh those two issues together? >> first of all, you're absolutely right. people who committed crimes, people who broke into the capitol must be held to account. i wasn't arguing that. i was pointing out a different problem, which is that there are literally millions of people

month sympathize with the attack on the capitol. one poll is 20%. another is 10%. that's a lot of americans. and saying, well, we need better education. or we need social media reform, that's not going to fix the problem, how we integrate with them, how we live with them, how we continue to run our democracy with that enormous number of people no longer believing the system. remember, these are people who not only do not believe the mainstream media, and that goes without saying, they don't believe the election officials in 50 states, they don't believe republican election officials. they don't believe courts. then don't believe the supreme court. they are now completely outside all structures of american government. how do we think about that?

i looked at other places like northern ireland. the key is to talk about something else. reactive the american piece core, work together on joint projects. it doesn't mean we should let people get away with anything. it does mean we will have to find a way to talk with and live with people who no longer respect american democracy. >> right. right. and we have david ignatius's sound pack. i'll get to him in just a moment. anne, my follow-up to you, they don't believe in the courts, they don't believe in basic things. and i understand working alongside them and humanity. what about holding their leader accountable so they are walked through this to understand consequences. does that play a role in your

concept? >> so i absolutely would agree with that. i'm very in favor of holding trump accountable. i'm somewhat mystified that the republicans would consider otherwise given it's so obvious to me that as soon as he can he will seek to destroy them. he doesn't have their interests at heart. so, yes, of course he should be held accountable. but that still doesn't deal with the longer term deeper social problem. we have a large chunk of people in the united states that don't respect our political system. . >> right, right, right. dave ignatius, hopefully we can hear you. we were discussing this very issue and the biden administration. is there too much to do? i personally think they can do five things at once. they started before he was even sworn in on coronavirus and laying out plans. how does the biden administration balance this movement forward? and then you can take it too, anne. >> so, mika, i think biden was

off to a fast start. we had a week of good feeling. a remarkable number of cabinet nominations, programs for dealing with covid. i think the country just felt a sense of animation. to me this impeachment debate is what the republicans want the rest of their future to be. donald trump is gone. impeachment is not about getting him out of office. it's preventing him from ever holding office again or, by extension, from having this stranglehold that he has on the gop now. that's what republicans are struggling with. do they have the guts to stand up to trump and say no more? we want our party back. so far it looks like the evidence is no, not enough of them do. we're not going to get a conviction in the senate that would allow this ban on future

office holding by trump, which means he's still there ready to scare all the republicans who were on the fence worried about the base. so i do worry about biden losing the thing that he has been demonstrating to the country which is a desire and ability to govern, to begin to unify. we need to find out soon whether mitch mcconnell's serious when he talks about working with biden. i think at some point there is going to have to be a meeting between pine and mcconnell. what's the deal here? how are we going to go forward? but in terms of the impeachment issue, that's about the republicans. what kind of party are they? i must find, like bill kristol, anne applebaum, it is depressing. republicans are not ready to break free. >> the fbi and justice department are in early discussions about not charging some of the rioters at the

capitolen sur recollection. the "washington post" reports doj officials are debating whether charging all the approximately 800 people who stormed the capitol is the best course of action because of the practical concern about swamping the courts. the "post" writes, due to the wide variety of behavior, some federal officials have argued internally that those people who are known to have committed unlawful entry, and were not engaged in violent, threatening or destructive behave, should not be charged, according to people family with the discussions. other agents and prosecutors have pushed pack against that suggestion arguing it is important to send a forceful message that the violence and mayhem needs to be punished to the full extent of the law, so as to discourage similar conduct in the future. michael schmidt, what are you

hearing from your contacts? i've never heard of anybody in the field of justice sort of splitting hairs about who should be tried and who shouldn't when a crime has been committed. >> i think there's a thought on the law enforcement side they really want to spend the time and attention that they have on seeing how much of this was a coordinated attack. how much planning had gone into this. how much was there a larger effort to do this that went beyond the spontaneity of the protesters who arrived at the foot of the capitol. law enforcement were often has to make decisions about how far to charge and how they should, union, use their resources. as the fbi has said, this is their top priority, getting to the bottom of this. you sort of wonder, you know, obviously they have the resources to do this. but the larger question that i have heard that they are

wrestling with is how much can they get to the bottom of what else was there. there were folks that arrived at the capitol intact cal gear. there are things that can be heard on the video footage that came out. they'd show people trying to work together and send messages to each other about getting into the building and such. so how much was planned, what went into that and who was behind that. there is a thought that that's where all their time and energy should go. it's just a series of important decisions that the justice department is going to have to make about not only what happened on january 6th but the

trump administration in general. how much do they want to turn back and look at what happened? do they want to look at the president's role not just in this siege but in other things. in the range of questions that he created throughout his presidency about whether he broke the law. was it as recently as the january 6th incident, or if things go back to the first year, to 2017. >> michael schmidt, thank you very much. anne applebaum, i want to get your take on something that happened over the weekend. 3,000 people were arrested across russia in support of jailed opposition leader alexei navalny. he was arrested last week after arriving in russia from germany where he was being treated for being poisoned. he was in a coma.

from prison, he urged supporters to take to the streets. and over the weekend, protests swept across russia's 11 time zones, taking place in 90 cities. in moscow, an estimated 15,000 demonstrators gathered in the city clashing with police. his wife was among several protesters arrested. we're going to be talking a lot more in the hours and days to come. but what is your take on, first of all, where is navalny right now and what is happening in russia right now? has putin misjudged his people? >> i think it's important for americans to understand just how incredibly brave navalny did. what he did after being poisoned by the president of russia, before going pack into russia, published an extraordinary

video. i actually recommend people watch it. two-hour video with english sub titles that describes putin's corruption going back 20 years in a way no one has done before. he published that. then he got a plane. then he went back into russia with his wife, knowing he would be arrested. . >> wow. . >> he was arrested at the border. he is in prison now. what you saw over the weekend is russians reacting to that bravery. if we can be that brave, we can be that brave too. the important point about the protests, they weren't just in moscow, st. petersburg, they were all over the country. all over every time zone across the country. particularly the far east and in the north, which are not parts of the country that have been traditionally in cleaned to protest. and what i think it represents is a generational change.

you have young russians who have never seen any other political leader except putin. they are trying to express their feeling that they have had enough. the question is how much violence putin will use, how much, whether the crackdown can control them, and how fast the anger can spread. >> yeah. anne applebaum, pleasure to have you on. thank you very much. next hour, we're going to have more on this important flashpoint in russia with former ambassadors michael mcfaul and mark preswreupb sky. still ahead on "morning joe", with a number of starts reporting a shortage in coronavirus vaccines, the new director of the cdc under president biden said it is unclear how many doses are available due to a lack of data gathered under president trump. you're watching "morning joe". we'll be right back. oe". we'll be right back.

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♪♪ >> it is 31 past the hour. a live look at new york city. the sun has yet to come up over the big apple. quarterback tom brady is headed back to the super bowl. i guess he is the very best. this time, as nfc champ after defeating the top-seeded packers with a defense that sacked aaron rodgers five times. tampa bay never trailed in the game but nearly gave up an 18-point lead in the second half after brady tossed interceptions on three straight drives for just the second time in his career. the bucs got some help from a questionable call by the packers to kick a field goal to get within five points with just

over two minutes to play. green bay would never get the ball back as tampa ran out the clock onto a 31-26 victory. brady will look to capture his seventh nfl title as the first to play a super bowl on his team's home field with the big game set for february 7th at tampa's raymond james stadium. for the first time in what will be his 10th super bowl appearance, brady will be the underdog. the defending champion kansas city chiefs open as favorites against the bucs in super bowl lv after beating the buffalo bills. jonathan lemire, that's as good as i get. i'll leave it to you. tom brady i guess the best? >> tom brady clearly the best. i will start by saying condolences to the bills fans.

they had a terrific run. 9 chiefs are rightly favored in two weeks. it's hard to know what to say about tom brady at this point. to be clear, he was shaky in the second half yesterday. he was brilliant in the first half as the buccaneers built that lead. he is 43 years old. this is his first year with a new team, new offense. they didn't have any off-season workouts because of covid. he came in more or less cold. it's like he picked a team and said, hey, who wants to go to the super bowl this year? okay, tampa. and they went. he has more than twice as many playoff wins as any other quarterback in league history, including joe montana. it is indeed his 10th super bowl. i'm a patriots fan. it still pains me to see him in another uniform. but at this point tom is still family. i will still be rooting for him. he is the greatest to ever play. not just the position but the sport.

>> yeah. and then this questionable call that went on, was that anything that you think needed to be overturned? or what would happen? everyone was talking about it on twitter. >> sure. there are two things late. there was a question penalty called, defensive pass interference called. refs had not called most of the img. they largely just let them play. this was pretty plate ant. the guy grabbed his jersey. the move that really got the scrutiny this morning is the decision to kick a field goal from the packers. it was the wrong decision in realtime. there was real second-guessing of it. you had aaron rodgers, one of the best to play the game, you still need a touchdown. go for the touchdown. the field goal didn't help you. a long winter for packers fans wondering about that. >> all right. thank you, jonathan lemire. now to friday's big loss not only for the sports world but the country as a whole. funeral arrangements made for

hank aaron, hall-of-famer and braves legend who died at the age of 86. a private memorial service scheduled for tuesday. a private funeral will be held on wednesday at friendship baptist church in atlanta. former president bill clinton and former major league commissioner bud selig are scheduled to attend the funeral. born in poverty in 1934 in segregated alabama, aaron began his baseball with the indianapolis clowns. he made his debut seven years after jackie robinson broke baseball's color barrier at a time when 5% of players in the league were black. aaron logged 3 .305 batting average and set a slew of records that still stand today,

including 25 all-star selections, the most career runs batted in, extra base hits and total bases. he's also in the top five for career hits and runs. but he is perhaps best known for breaking babe ruth's 714 home run record set in 1935. aaron remained home run king for 33 years until barry bonds surpassed his 755 total. while he still ranks second behind bonds, many consider aaron the home run king because of allegations that bonds used performance enhancing drugs. aaron retaoeubd at the end of the 1976 season and was elected to cooperstown in 1982. his first year of eligibility and just nine votes short of being the first unanimous choice ever to the baseball hall of fame. in 2002, aaron received the

nation's high eflt civilian honor when he was presented the immediately of freedom by president george w. bush. aaron joined civil rights leaders to receive the kruts vaccine aiming to spread the word to the black community that the shots were safe. jonathan lemire, this is a hero on so many levels. >> that's right, mika. i'm enjoying the chance to play sportscaster person. he was a heroic person as well as a legendary player. he is one of the top players to ever play the game. many believe he is rightly the all time home run leader. just a remarkable career. even more so remarkable man. as he was chasing babe ruth's record when he did pass, his old 714 was the total for home runs, aaron did so under scrutiny and

faced threats and blatant racism. it was an ugly moment for american sports. of course it bothered hip. he handled it with outward grace and dignity, truly inspiring what he did both on and off the field, a legend who will really be missed. this morning we continue to remember larry king who died at the age of 87. his death sparked an outpouring of condolences from other media figures which continue to pour in. funeral arrangements and memorial service are being coordinated with his family. king's tv production companies said he passed away in a hospital in los angeles on saturday morning. the statement did not specify the cause of death. king was recently hospitalized with covid-19 and had endured health problems for years. over a nearly 60-year career that spanned, radio, television,

cable, and the internet, the brooklyn native estimated he conducted more than 50,000 interviews. not one of which he prepared for in advance. in 1978, the larry king show became a nationally syndicated staple. within five years, broadcast in 118 cities. june 3rd, 1985, larry king live premiered on cnn beginning the 25-year run that would make him a household name. by the time he ended his run on cnn, larry king live was entrenched in the begin us book of world records with the same host and the same time slot. in 2015 he explained to us the secret to his success when we turned him from interviewer to guest here on "morning joe". >> my curiosity has never wasn'ted. in other words, i am

intensely -- i'm the kind of guy you don't want to sit next to on a plane. my motto in life is i never learned anything when i was talking. >> i'll tell you, when i was a kid my dad took me to go watch him be on the larry king show, and it sparked my interest in being in this business. that voice, that demeanor, everything about it. i was fascinated and never looked back coming up, the debate over president biden's covid relief plan could be the first test whether democrats go nuclear and get rid of the senate rule that requires 60 votes to advance legislation. "morning joe" is back in a moment. ion. "morning joe" is back in a moment ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ (quiet piano music)

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this election was not stolen. do you accept that fact? >> well, what i would say is

that the debate over whether or not there was fraud should occur. we never had any presentation in court where we actually looked at the evidence. >> there were 86 challenges by president trump and his allies. all were dismissed. after investigations, counts, and recounts. >> people coming from the liberal side, you immediately say everything is a lie instead of saying two sides of everything. >> not two sides to this story. this has been looked at in every single state >> sure there are. there are two sides to every story. >> i don't even know where to begin. republican senator rand paul in a tense back and forth with george stephanopoulos, refusing to say a presidential election was not stolen. meanwhile, arizona republicans voted over the weekend to censure cindy mccain, as well as governor doug ducey and former

senator jeff flake, all of whom opposed the efforts to overturn joe biden's election victory. it comes as they re-elected chairwoman kelli ward, who has been one of trump's biggest supporters. ward has relentlessly but unsuccessfully sued to overturn the election results. the party has used social media accounts to urge followers to fight. and perhaps even to die in support of trump's false claims of victory. two of the four congressman are accused of playing a role in the organizing of the january 6th rally that turned violent. in response, cindy mccain tweeted, it is a high lauren to be included in a group of arizonans who have served our state and our nation so well. and who, like my late husband

john have been censured by the arizona gop. i'll wear this as a badge of honor. what is going on? why is this a play for these republicans? aren't there bigger and better things to disagree about? can't we agree on pwaeufbgs? >> yeah. apparently not. rand paul is saying there are two sides to everything. some things are true. sit important to uphold standards. they are republican talking points. it's the opposite now. it is a deep reflection what trump has done to the party, as is the action by the arizona republicans. this is why kevin mccarthy is intimidated. what did jefferson say about slavery. you ride the wolf and you can't release it. it that's how they feel about the trump base. they don't feel they can win without it.

they been it damages them. they don't have enough guts, as david ignatius put it, to take a short-term hit. if the party splits off and they lose 10% of the vote, they will lose elections. but they are doing such damage to american democracy. i love cindy mccain. i thought her statement was great. she supported joe biden as i did. the arizona republicans don't like that. doug doocy is the republican governor of arizona. he's been elected. he is quite a successful governor i think a lot of people would say. he supported donald trump. he's not some kind of bill kristol never trumper, cindy mccain type. he didn't love trump but he went along with him more than some would like. it isn't enough for the trump aides. this is a spiral of extremist that we are now on the right. that's why it is so dangerous. bill kristol, thank you so much.

host of "way too early" kasie hunt. and reporter for the "washington post" eugene scott. kasie, i want to get an update on impeachment. not just the process but where it stands on capitol hill. perhaps even more in the senate. but you have some senate republicans trying to treat americans like they are very stupid. and saying things like, well, he's out of office, so why bother? and obviously there's a much bigger picture at play here. there's the potential trump could run again. the fact that crimes have been committed, that lives have been threatened. and these republicans are bearing it down to something something that is also a lie. it doesn't matter because he's out of office. what are you hearing on the hill about impeachment and the time it's taking to carry out the act of actually voting on impeachment. is that in trump's favor or maybe perhaps not so much?

>> well, that's a big question, mika. it depends on what we learn the next couple of weeks. big picture here, what's going on now in the impeachment trial is exactly what you and bill kristol were just talking about. it's this splintering of the republican party between those who find what happened on january 6th and the former president's entire demeanor to be in office to be completely unacceptable and a base of a party that he has royaled into a frenzy. and the question is how is this going to ultimately shake out. that's where this time question comes into play. mitch mcconnell has made pretty clear that he is prepared to vote to convict trump. he has made arguments that seem to indicate he is open to that, willing to do it, believes that the president incited this violence. and the reality is mcconnell and many, many other elected

republicans all the way along have felt as though trump was destroying their party. they wanted him out. and mcconnell, if anything, is at the forefront of that. and obviously convicting him would prevent him from running for office again. now, there are completing camps here, right, even among those who they face political pressure. they may not be willing to vote to convict. there is competing thinking about what kind of impact that would have. on the one hand, getting rid of him, convicting him, prevents him from running for federal office again. but there is the possibility that doing that royals his base even further and turns him into a martyr type figure. some republicans are making that argument behind the scenes. if you convict this guy, he is going to be a bigger problem. now, we can -- strong minds can debate which of these theories

is the case. he was run to go gain power to have control of the nuclear codes. so long as he may get control of the nuclear codes, you have to cover him, pay attention because we can wield the power in dangerous ways. if you can't have that powerback, it turns him into a different type of figure. these are the calculations going on behind the scenes. jonathan lemire, jump in. >> so the white house of course has been watching this. and they have sort of danced around press secretary jen psaki, and the president himself, whether trump indeed should be convicted and removed. they don't want to go on public record. it's been a sharp break symbolism and substance from his predecessor from things like wearing a mask, to a different approach to, foreign leader calls. and of course a flurry of

executive orders, eugene. and i wanted to get you in on this. there are these orders and executive actions. the president is expected to sign today. they are useful but limited in scope. what the white house wants is this big deal in congress. white house officials had a call yesterday with a bipartisan group of senators. it seems like that deal is a long way off. there's a lot of hurdles that have to be cleared. maybe it can't be tkaupbl. what are you hearing in terms of next steps for the package but also what the white house can do next as it tries to push its agenda forward under the shadow of this impeachment trial? >> well, people from the biden administration are already making calls and trying to build relationships and tap into their existing connections on both sides of the aisle, trying to get the most support for legislation that could improve the lives of americans in a way that will signify the biden

administration has gone some easy wins in terms of responding to the pandemic and things are moving in a different direction from the previous administration. right now what we are also seeing biden trying to do is keep the eye on this solution driven effort to respond to so many of these issues that voters took to the polls when they were mindful of at the polls when they voted for biden instead of focusing on impeachment because he knows how divisive that is. and it may work out on the side of democrats. you look for approval in the first 100 days that gives you some look at where it will go. >> thank you for coming on the show this morning. coming up, as coronavirus cases

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i would say one of the biggest problems right now, i can't tell you how much vaccine we have. and if i can't tell it to you i can't tell it to the governors or state health officials. if they don't know how much they are getting not only this week but the next week, then they can't play >> that is the dr. row shelf what lessen sky highlighting big challenges facing the new administration's vaccine distribution plan. she seems extremely concerned. it comes as the united states recorded more than 25 million coronavirus cases. that new milestone puts the u.s. ahead of any other country by

nearly 15 million cases. the death toll sits at above 420,000 and is expected to top half a million next month. president joe biden expects to sign a restriction on travel to reduce the spread of covid-19. two white house officials tell that to nbc news. it would prevent most non-u.s. citizens from entering if they have recently traveled to south africa where a new coronavirus variant has been detected. the president is also expected to rein state restrictions that were repealed by president trump in his final days in office set to go into effect tomorrow. these will effect non-u.s. citizens traveling from brazil, the united kingdom and ireland, as well as 26 european countries. meanwhile, dr. anthony fauci warns that the new variants of the virus are not only more

contagious but could also be more deadly. >> the most recent data is in accord with what the brits are saying. they are a competent group. we need to assume what has been circulating in the uk does have a certain degree of increase in what we call virulence, the power of the virus to cause more damage, including death. >> nbc's kasie hunt, ap's lemire and david ignatius still with us. we have john meacham who occasionally advises president biden. and u.s. national editor at the financial times, john loose. a pandemic appears to be raging out of control and multiplying

with variants that are making it more quick to transfer to other people and more deadly. >> well, about i've we got is woodrow wilson who did not do well at all to say the least 100 years ago. we're in largely uncharted waters for the new administration. the compounding series of problems that he has inherited really do make this unique in the scope and scale of what they're dealing with. lincoln of his had the crisis of union, which is really of a different sort. but there are, of course, what you have been talking about these existential questions about disunionist sentiment. particularly on the right. fdr in 1933 at least had the business community with him for a little while. because they needed him.

banks were closing. there were this moment where he was able to marshall all the forces in the country. opposition quickly set in by 1935 when he is passing social security. you had a great deal of opposition and the beginning of conservative reaction to that. harry truman came to power april 1945 dealing with 18 days before hitler committed suicide. the manhattan project is unfolding. we thought the war against japan could last two more years. that's what we're talking about. that is the frame in which this president has to deal with an inherited set of crises exacerbated by i think this flight from reason. this flight from what dr. fauci

was talking about, this flight from data. you don't have to like the data to acknowledge it's real. >> yeah. there is such a problem with our national security and such weakness when our country has a pandemic just royaling through it that is being so mishandled and so mismanaged. ed, to our friends and enemies see there is a new sheriff in town and that sheriff is working on getting this pandemic under control. we are no longer number one in deaths and cases. >> yes. i think that is a wide appreciation from china to britain that joe biden is deadly serious about making this vaccine distribution a national priority and ending this pandemic, a national priority of course. of course he is inheriting the

againings of this new mutation of the virus that's been devastating britain in the last few weeks and is set, according to people like dr. fauci, to be the predominant strain by march. and that is deadlier and much more infectious. and as we are seeing in britain, extreme measures are being taken to try to control it. it is now set to last until easter, which is april 4th. which is a very long time away. for people going through this pretty grim winter there. and so in the united states, similar kinds of measures are probably going to have to become necessary necessary. and i think therefore the world will be watching as well as us here in america the fate of this 1.9 trillion pandemic bill. because 400 billion dollars of

that sort of moonshot level of spending, is dedicated to the vaccine to distribution, to manufacturing, as well as to strengthening contact tracing and testing for america. this is seen as an overwhelming emergency priority of the incoming administration. . >> i'll be honest, i have seen in large numbers, people who don't get it. and who are carrying on business as usual, concerts as usual, restaurants as usual. no masks. a lot of work needs to be done. coming up, we're going to talk to v.vin gupta about all of that, given this virus is still raepblging out of control and at its worst now. the article of impeachment, accusing former president donald trump is kreupb kwraoeuting the capitol riot will be transmitted to the senate today.

it comes nearly two weeks after the house voted to impeach. the trial, however, is not expected to begin in ernest until february 8th after senate leaders struck a deal to give trump's attorneys more time to prepare. and this morning we have new information on houfrp donald trump was willing to go to overturn president biden's win. in early january, former president trump had a meeting to discuss replacing acting attorney general jeffrey rosen with someone more willing to help him stay in office. according to the "new york times", trump wanted to replace rosen with jeffrey clark, the head of the doj's environment and natural resources division. after clark tried to press the acting ag to pursue baseless claims of voter fraud on the president's behalf. if installed, clark was to file a case with the supreme court to overturn the election, which rosen refused to do.

sources also told the paper clark was also wanted to wrongly inform georgia legislators that the department was investigating fraud claims in their state and they should void the state's results. white house council pat cipollony was in the meeting with trump, rosen and clark and pushed back on changing ags and against filing supreme court case to overturn the election, an idea that had been floated by trump's outside attorneys. this is crazy. he warned of mass resignations at doj if the plan went through according to people familiar with the meeting. let's bring in justice department reporter katie venuer who broke the story on the plan to replace rosen and former federal prosecutor and paul butler, msnbc legal analyst.

thank you both for being on with us. katie, this sounds crazy, this plan. give us a sense of how they plan to do this and how short a time. how were they trying to get this done. >> i don't think they realized it had been happening until around the holidays. there were requested of rosen to file briefs or to work on his behalf in other ways to try to push back on the resulting election. and he felt he was successfully saying no. he didn't realize mr. clark had conversations with president trump to open up a ray of hope that the justice department would open up on his behalf. those machinations didn't really come to light until around the holidays. then there was a scramble to see what could be done to speak to

mr. clark to say this has to end. and it culminates in a tough confrontation on january 3rd where they have a meeting in the oval office. >> there a member of congressen reportedly played a large role in the plan to replace jeffrey rosen. former administration officials told the "new york times" that clark was originally introduced to trump by pennsylvania representative scott perry of the freedom caucus and he would not have known of clark's support otherwise. representative perry shines a spotlight on congress who continue to advance trump's false claims of voter fraud and question the legitimacy of the biden administration. kasie hunt, what more can you add to this, including that the president didn't even know about this person. >> it sort of underscores the

way this entire thing has worked in that many members of congress are totally obscure but they are willing to buy into and believe what the president was selling. i think it raises significant questions about mark meadow's possible role here. he was a leader in the freedom caulk us and likely would have known congressman perry. he is not someone who has stuck out on the national stage for anything else that i can quickly recall. there are many back venture members of the congress which is how we usually refer to them. can you dig in a little bit further into this role. i read your great story over the weekend. the details were initially a little bit thin on the ground as to how this connection was made and why. and particularly how this congressman knew that jeffrey clark was perhaps sharing the same inclinations. >> yeah.

i think that's one of the biggest mysteries. we don't know how mr. clark and congressman perry met. it was described by sources close to several meetings at the white house, he have one of several people who came into the white house in a manner considered unusual in past presidencies as mr. trump became more desperate. you sort of saw a wide and new set of faces coming through the doors of the oval office to talk to the president. that's how it was presented to us. we do know how he met jeffrey clark. after meeting jeffrey clark, understanding he was more amenable to anybody else at the department, he was quickly introduced to the president. >> paul butler, where do we

begin with this? as it pertains to the potential impeachment or for factors that might be very, very implicating for senate republicans to consider, what stands out to you out of everything we have seen in the final days of the trump administration as it pertains to impeachment. >> where do we begin, mika? they will say he didn't incite. another defense will be it wasn't an insurrection because trump genuinely believed he won. and he was asking his supporters in good faith to. trump knew he didn't win.

his other lawyers, along with his national security team, everyone told him that the election was free and fair. and so now we know that he was literally trying to overturn an election that he knew was free and fair so that he could illegally remain in power. in terms of gravity, this surpasses any criminal conduct that a president has ever been itch paoefpld on. >> jonathan lemire, jump in. >> paul, i wanted to circle back on that point. is there a possibility, beyond we know this impeachment is about insurrection, the events of january 6th. as evidence mounts through terrific reporting, the president and his team had been trying to overturn the will of the people long before that day. it wasn't about trying to stop the certification of joe biden's victory in congress but rather behind the scenes legal efforts to try to overturn these

elections. is it possible this will be added to the house case? how effective will that be? is this going to be a due process issue where it could bog things down if this case against trump is expanded, would it lengthen the length of that trial? can you walk us through what might come next? >> sure. the article of peachment is for incite an insurrection. there won't be additional articles added but rather this new evidence will be used to support the charge of inciting an insurrection. the chief justice acts as a judge but has a minimum role. they will use this to show trump's corrupt mind state.

there is no way that he actually believed that he won the election. so an insurrection is exactly what he was trying to insight. he knew it was free and fair and he was trying to overturn the democratic will of the american people. again, when we look at what other presidents have been impeached for, nothing comes close to inciting an insurrection. >> georgetown university law professor paul butler, thank you very much. and justice department reporter at the "new york times", katie benner, thank you as well for your reporting. it seems republicans in various states have learned the wrong lesson from all of this. now introducing a raft of voting restrictions across the country. restrictions. politico reports that in georgia

where democrats picked up two senate seats, the gop is pushing is change state election laws by proposing limits on who can vote by mail and limiting the use of dropboxs for absentee ballots. in arizona, which narrowly went for president biden, it would allow for more automatic recounts. and just before the 2022 midterms, north carolina could implement a new voter i.d. law. the chair of the republican party in texas has called to focus voting laws as a top priority. john meacham, what are they thinking? do they see the writing on the wall. donald trump is isn't president anymore. . >> no. this is all about power over

principle. i don't want to sound overly grand at this hour. it's that fundamental. basically we didn't have as full and free an election in the way we would think of it in this country until 1968. think about that for a second. so 52 years ago when the voting rights act kicked in and in my native region apartheid at the ballot box fell. it hasn't fallen totally. it was because of the amazing work of the nonviolence protesters, the lawyers who fought so hard, the great chain of reformers going back into the 18th century and forward. created a democratic republic, lower case d, lower case r. what they are trying to do is pull that back.

it's not based on a but burkian idea. they vice president thought this out. this is simply about power. because they know in national elections and in some states, they are not going to win in the america of the middle 2021 century unless they rig the rules. if you're a political party, which has i have burk on the brain this morning. burk said a party is an organization of men in the 18th century term, devoted to a certain policy action. and they work in concert. that's fine. pattersonship is fine. it is when it becomes reflexive and limiting and exclusion ear.

so i think everybody, no matter which side you're on here, should be close to horrified by this attempt to build walls around the ballot box. and we know that it is a deep, consuming fear. because all you have to do is pull apart the rhetoric, language, the now self--fulfilling drama on the right of b this lie that donald trump won because of dropboxs in some state where none of these folks have ever been when they're talking about it. so this is not partisan. it's simply a clinical way of looking at these facts. the 2020 election joe biden in modern political terms won a thorry respectable margin giving polarization. instead of confronting what that says about their party, their

platform, their identity within this complicated country, republicans, many of them, first tried to overturn the election. and now they want to change the rules of elections so they preoverturn them. >> wow. okay. jon meacham, thank you very much for being on this morning. still ahead on "morning joe", thousands arrested in russia during protests over the imprisonment of opposition leader alexei navalny. we'll talk to two former ambassadors about the growing unrest there. you're watching "morning joe". we'll be right back. orning joe". we'll be right back. for some of us, our daily journey is a short one when you drive less, you pay less with pay per mile insurance from allstate you've never been in better hands allstate click or call for a quote today when you're through with powering through, it's time for theraflu hot liquid medicine.

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forward-thinking solutions. and that's what we deliver. so bounce forward, with comcast business. welcome back. over 3,000 people were arrested at protests across russia on saturday in support of jailed opposition leader alexei navalny. navalny was arrested last week after arriving in russia from

germany where he was being treated for poisoning. he had been in a coma. from prison, he urged supporters to take to the streets. over the weekend, protests swept across 11 time zones, taking place in 90 cities. in the capital moscow, his wife was among several protesters arrested. joining us now, former ambassador to russia, now the director of the institute for international studies at stanford and nbc news international affairs analyst, michael mcfaul. former ambassador to sweden under president obama, mark brzezinski.

are russia's movements to silence navalny having opposite effects? >> the kremlin is turning that valley into the -- of russia. he spoke to his supporters when fighting against the communist regime from czechoslovakia. lek walenska being a polarizing figure from prison. a much more vast country. 11 time zones. but the fact that navalny is visibly sacrificing for democracy in russia is influential to all the people being in expired by him to sacrifice themselves as you saw

this past weekend, risking jail, 50 degrees below zero. russia is cold in the winter. that is what the kremlin is doing. >> mike mcfaul, you have been on the ground in russia serving this country. your thoughts whether this is back firing on putin. what are your concerns for the future for this movement? >> well, i agree with mark. it is a big moment. it is a turning point for mr. navalny as leader of the opposition. and the fact that mr. paoult in has to respond to what he put out. on the eve of this demonstration, navalny put out this incredible video. i urge all your viewers look at it. 80, 9 0 million people have seen it. he exposes corruption. this was a big moment in terms of the explosion. as you said, mika, very important not just in moscow and

st. petersburg but in about 100 cities that you had these demonstrations. and i don't think the regime, mr. putin's regime right now knows how to respond to -- they don't know what to do with navalny. they have arrested him for 30 days. they tried to poison him, kill him. he left and came back from germany. that's how brave he is. right now they don't know what to do with him, whether to make him a marter and keep in jail for years or let him go back to the streets and do more demonstrations. >> david ignatius, jump in. >> so i would like to ask masters mcfaul and brzezinski, do you think this has staying power? the arrests were pretty divisive. obviously, navalny is a charismatic figure. do you think this is a movement that will stay in the streets and keep taking risks? >> david, i think my friend mike

mcfaul put his finger on it, corruption. outrage at corruption is the driving force, and navalny is synonymous with the fight against corruption in russia. i think that is what makes this have staying power. what our near term events that could be catalytic to change. in september there will be parliamentary. say he is blocked from running in the elections. people are already surrounding his wife julia to get her to run. similar in belarus. part of this depends what the west does. i am incredibly confident about the biden team that is put in place about this pause none of this is new to them. secretary of state tony blinken,

and i love saying that, secretary of state blinken, supervised the transition and the american relationship with russia between yeltsin and putin. like mike, for none of these folks this is new >> mike mcfaul, your turn. is this where putin's domination over russia finally comes to an end? >> we all know the great stories, two of them, fantastic stories of poland and the czechoslovakia. mandela, gandhi. we can think of those. we forget about the failed ones. anybody rather ganghi.

in prison in iran. we called him the lew walensa of that movement. we're not good at predicting these things. neither is the cia, i can tell you. having said that, i think this is an inflection point. it is a break through in that it's a national movement. it is about corruption. putin does not have a way to regain his legitimacy. i don't know how it ends, but it is a pretty important turning point. >> ed, jump in. >> as both you know, a lot of the protesters are yelling putin is a thief. and there are rumors he built a luxury palace on the black sea at one of many residences he's alleged to have on ill-gotten gains. the estimates of what those

gains are runs into the billions. one of the things that terrified him a few years ago was the release of the panama papers that exposed the great wealth of a lot of people around him. the biden administration -- biden campaigned on cutting into money laundering, off-shore havens, tax evasion. how effective do you think biden could be in helping navalny and these protesters through such attacks. >> mike mcfaul? >> navalny thinks they can be helpful. he and his team from jail released a number of names they said should be sanctioned in response for his poisoning and now his arrest. and they were very clear about it. if you look at the list, i know many of them. i used to work with them. these are the people that enabled putin. these are probably some of the

people that gave money to build that giant complex on the back sea that navalny exposed. by the way, putin does not deny it's there. he said i don't own it personally. that's what he said today. navalny said don't sanction low-level colonels, go after the wealth and expose the wealth. i think that would put a lot of pressure on the regime. i don't know if the biden administration is ready to go there yet. >> we live in a moment when we can forensically investigate and track finances there you have outside evidence of corruption and the gathering of wealth by the very few. within rush sharks you have this social upheaval.

the vast majority want change. the combination is producing an important inflection point. >> former ambassadors michael mcfaul and mark brzezinski. thank you both. this is an incredible story still happening. we'll have to have you back ta ugg about this. ed loose, thank you so well. and dave ignatius, in your recent column for the "washington post", you argue some of trump's foreign policies are worth sustaining. biden should keep that in mind. which ones, david? >> well, you don't hear too many positive things about trump for from the me or anybody else. i do think that in a couple of areas it's worth thinking about continuity. one thing the trump administration did probably against trump's will was to keep u.s. troops in iraq which iraq was definitely trying to force

them out. the iraqis want our help. and by sending messaging flying b 52s. we deterred them from attacking our positions in baghdad. that was good. i think it's good that generals kept them from pulling the last 2,500 troops out of afghanistan. a terrible situation there. continuity following the pentagon's efforts to make this a conditions based withdraw. that makes sense. finally, i think trump was right to say that we need a tougher policy on china. i think most of the key democrats coming in with biden would share that basic view, we need to be tougher on technology, tougher on trade. so i'm all for continuity when it's appropriate. where there have been good policies that brought results for the u.s. shouldn't throw everything out every time we change administrations.

those three i would say are worth thinking about keeping >> david ignatius, thank you very much. jonathan lemire, final thought from what david is propoproposi any reflection of that that you are hearing from the biden administration. . >> the biden team is obviously still being put in place. certainly it is a consideration to leave some presence there in the middle east in iraq in particular. and i to think they are looking at china from what we have been told. there is a sepbts in light of the events of the laugh year that a tougher relationship is going to be needed there. that will be the defining relationship in terms of foreign policy from this president. but we have seen briefly this biden starting outreach. he had calls with the presidents of canada, mexico, boris johnson in the uk where he is trying to repair and make a more stable relationship than what we saw

from president trump. and we also saw the biden white house state department condemn russia's crackdown on the protests we were just talking about in this block. a sort of marked difference in tone from of course president trump who is loathe to ever criticize anything from vladimir putin. coming up, breaking news just crossing the wire this morning. pharmaceutical giant merck is scrapping the potential covid vaccine it's been working on despite the ongoing shortage. we'll explain why next on "morning joe". why next on "morning joe".

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♪♪ new this morning, the pharmaceutical giant merck said this morning that it has discontinued development of its two covid vaccine candidates after early clinical trials gave

an inferior immune response. they said it will shift its focus to advancing its two therapeutic candidates. the vaccine trials found that the vaccine candidates were well tolerated but not as effective as the other covid vaccines. dr. vin gupta is a pulmonologist. senior correspondent for "time," justin moreland. "time" is releasing a special product, "destination 2030" which focuses on the biggest challenges facing the world. and how the world's biggest crises are interconnected and how this is the year to correct course. so, justin, let's start there. dr. gupta, i have tons of questions for you. but what is phase 1 of correcting course as it pertains to america's response to this

pandemic? >> i lost audio there for a second. >> okay. we don't have audio for justin. he can think about that big question for a moment. dr. gupta, oh, my gosh, for the past few weeks, my daughters and i have taken trips around town staying in our car in masks and taking a look at what is happening. and in the location that we are at, you would not even think there was a pandemic. concerts packed, hundreds of people squashed together next to a restaurant, packed with live music next to an ice cream place packed with lines of people with no masks. i just -- we actually would go out every evening to look at this to see if anyone understands, to see if there is any difference pertaining to the news. there is a problem in terms of people understanding where we

are at with this virus. i think they think it's over. >> good morning, mika. you know, you're right. on the one hand, i'm hearing similar stories. this notion that because the vaccine is -- either people have gone the vaccine and they to the floor to worry about being vigilant anymore, or the vaccine is here and we can see the light at the end of the tunnel. no, that is absolutely not the right mind-set we need right now. as president biden said, we need to be on wartime footing. we need to think every day we are living in a disaster. in addition to everything you just mentioned, a chronic problem we have been talking about the past year, now we are saying in certain situations maybe double mask because of the new more transmissible train. we are worried. let's take extra precautions, arm ourselves with more protection. so let's double mask. we are saying avoid indoor congregation with others in your

household. soen don't have neighbors over for a meal. go to the grocery store if you have to for 15 minutes once a week. if we are saying those things, 47 governors say it is okay to engage with indoor dining with restrictions. how can we tell people to do the things i just mentioned -- week over week, mika. there is dissidents here in policy. we have a align as we await vaccines to ramp up. . >> i just heard you talk about double masking, which is what i did the one time i had to travel. but, again, this disconnect is frightening. especially with the new strain that we're talking about. are we talking about one new strain or potentially new

strains. . >> we're talking about strains, plural. we have heard a lot now in the few weeks about this b 117 strain coming out of the uk. we think it's already here, mika. we documented it in at least 20 states. it's probably here across the union. so that's one. i will say that we have done now pharmaceutical companies have done enough studies to know the vaccines appear to be effective against both strains. now we are protecting it more. the concerning strain is out of south africa. dr. fauci was talking about it as well. there is concern that perhaps the vaccines are less effective against that specific strain. that's why you are seeing a biden administration cut travel as of january 30th, which is the smart thing to do. but that's why we need to focus on transmission reduction. we cannot lull ourselves into sleep. we have to focus on case mitigation and align public policy now so people realize

they shouldn't be out in public, shouldn't be out dining. we need to protect our adult staff and schools before we start in-person instruction at scale. we need to be as vigilant as possible here. >> kasie hunt, jump in. >> dr. gupta, good morning. can i just pick up on something you just mentioned when you were talking about the south african strain. can you just explain to us a little bit of the science behind your comment, why the level of concern is higher there. >> absolutely. good morning, kasie. we have what we have seen is scientists in south africa actually took the plasma, the blood that contains antibodies from individuals that have survived infection, this new strain. what they have noticed is that actually from the old type of the virus. they exposed it to the in you strain that is circulating in south africa. the antibodies produced a

natural infection from covid-19. the old variety of it were not as effective in actually killing the new type of virus that is circulating in south africa. so that has drawn concerns. new studies from both pfizer and moderna showing their moderna shows their antibodies are slightly less effective than in fighting the original strain as well. still effective. while the strength of the antibody strain is not as strong, it is still strong. there is still reassurance here that those will work, but perhaps the strength is mitigated a bit from the south africa strain. >> justin, your latest piece for the new time project is entitled "the soaring twenties." you quite the coronavirus laid

bare endemic poverty not only in the developing world but also in rich countries like the u.s. where millions lack health care and are one paycheck away from living on the street. around the world, racial and ethnic minorities have demanded justice after centuries of discrimination. in the next decade, societies will be forced to either confront this snarl of channels or be overwhelmed by them. our response will define the future for decades to come. i will try your audio out right now. where does america's response to the pandemic fit into everything that you are writing about? >> yeah. well, it's very central to everything i'm writing about. as my essay lays out, a lot of

what we do, a lot of the next 10 years or next 30 years will be laid out in response to the pandemic. just how much money we're spending on recovery and rethinking policies. those policies will define the future for years. $20 trillion, this is a once in a lifetime outlay of resources. we won't get a second opportunity. >> justin, thank you very, very much. dr. gupta, thank you as well. definitely come back. we need to spread the word. still ahead, kevin mccarthy said president trump bares responsibility for the capitol riot. now, a few weeks later, he says

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"the new york times" reports that dominion voting systems has filed a defamation lawsuit this morning against rudy giuliani. according to the paper, the 107 page lawsuit accuses mr. giuliani of carrying out a viral disinformation campaign about dominion made up of common strably false allegations in part to enrich himself through legal fees and his podcast. the suit seeks damages of more than $1.3 billion and is based on more than 50 statements giuliani made on legislative hearings, on twitter, on his podcast and in the conservative news media. giuliani did not immediately

respond to our request for comment. where does this stand for him? how bad is this? >> as you say, no pardon. secondly, he can't be part of the president's legal team because he was part of that preinsurrection rally. he had to acknowledge that he asked the trump campaign for $20,000 a day in terms of payment for his legal work during this period and now this, a $1.3 billion, with a b, lawsuit. we have seen media coverage about the false statements. we will see if giuliani will have to do the same to avoid it in this manner. still ahead, the next step in the trump impeachment process gets underway today. and new reporting on the lengths donald trump was willing to go to subvert the will of the

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you can't do that. you have to use the entire database. >> who was doing that? >> to this day i don't know. >> okay. the doctors are now speaking out. last week we heard dr. anthony fauci talk about how liberated he feels working with the biden administration. and now dr. deborah birx is also explaining how difficult things were working under donald trump. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is monday, january 25th. with us we have the white house reporter for the associated press, jonathan la merement columnist and editor for "the washington post," david ig nashs, founder of the group defending democracy together and editor at large, bill crystal is with us and new york times reporter and fashional security analyst, michael schmidt.

joe and willie have the day off, which means we won't spend the first ten minutes talking about the playoffs. the article of impeachment accusing donald trump of inciting the capitol riot will be transmitted to the senate today. it comes nearly two weeks after the house voted to impeach. the trial is not expected to begin in earnest until february 8th after senate leaders truck a deal to get trump's attorneys more time to prepare. ahead of the impeachment trial this morning, we have new information on just how far donald trump was willing to go to overturn president biden's win. in early january, former president trump had a meeting to discuss remacing acting attorney general jeffrey rosen with someone more willing to help him stay in office. according to "the washington post," trump wanted to replace rosen with jeffrey clark, the head of doj's environment and

natural resources division after clark tried to press the acting ag to pursue baseless claims of voter fraud on the president's behalf. if installed, clark was to file a case with the supreme court to overturn the election, which rosen refused to do. sources also told the paper clark also wanted him to wrongly inform georgia legislators the department was investigating fraud claims in their state and they should vote the state's results. white house counsel pat sip bone was in the meeting with rosen and clark and pushed back on changing attorney generals and on filing a supreme court case to overturn the election, an idea floated by trump's outside attorneys. he warned of mass resignations at doj if the plan went through, according to people familiar with the meeting.

michael, i'm beginning to think as trump's attorneys begin to prepare, the time is actually what is needed for everything to come out and is probably not on trump's side because as we learn more, it only gets worse. >> yeah. and it's -- in some ways it's very new and it gives us a very good insight into what was going on around the election. throughout the president's term, he has tried as hard as he could to use the justice department to help him politically. time and time again he ran into problems. he was most successful when he was able to sort of obstruct and to throw barriers up for them to stop them from looking into things that he thought could be damaging to him where he struggled to get them to go on the offense and to investigate his rivals and do things like that. it is what we see in this

example as one of the most glaring ones of him pushing as hard as he can to the point of being told by his white house counsel that he would suffer an immense political cost for it. obviously the president was willing to do a lot of things that damaged him politically, but this seems like even for the president it was going to be too far. you know, if he had had mass resignations at the justice department in the weeks leading up to the end of his presidency, obviously that would have, you know, put even more pressure on the senate coming up here around impeachment. but as you point out, questions about this, about what he was trying to do with the justice department were not examined in the impeachment articles that were sent over. they're not part of what the senate would be looking at and you wonder what more time would uncover about them.

>> when it comes to the impeachment trial, let's take a look at some of the arguments that we are hearing from senate republicans so far. listen. >> first of all, i think the trial is stupid. i think it's counter productive. we already have a flaming fire in this country. it is like taking a bunch of gasoline and pouring on the fire. >> i think a lot of americans are going to think it's strange that the senate is spending its time trying to convict and remove from office a man who left office a week ago. >> do you believe donald trump committed an impeachable offense? >> to begin with, i think it's a moot point because i think right now donald trump is no longer the president. he is a former president. >> yes. but they're trying to prevent him from running again because he committed crimes against our country and incited riots against the capitol and all that. let's put that aside. then there is house minority leader kevin mccarthy doing his

best to have his cake and eat it too. on january 8th, punch bowl news reported that mccarthy got into a screaming match with president trump, called on him to release the statement that caused that mob to storm the capitol. he stood pup. on january 12th, axios reported that on a tense phone call with trump mccarthy said it wasn't antifa at the capitol. he said, quote, it's maga. i know. i was there. here's what mccarthy said on january 13th. >> the president bares responsibility for wednesday's attack. he should have immediately denounced the mob when he saw what was unfolding. >> yes, correct. but then after meh, just a week after saying the president bears responsible for the attack, mccarthy said this.

>> other important people -- do you believe that president trump provoked. >> i don't believe he provoked if you listen to what he said at the rally. >> okay. now mccarthy is doing his best president trump after charlottesville. he said everyone has some responsibility for the violence that broke out on january 6th. >> i thought the president had some responsibility when it came to the response. if you listen to what the president said at the rally, he said demonstrate peacefully. i also think everybody across this country has some responsibility. think about four years ago after president trump was sworn in. what happened the very next day? the title was resist. >> bill crystal, help me

understand this. >> it's too depressing, miikka. can't we just enjoy tom brady's victory? look, kevin mccarthy is the republican party today. he doesn't like trump. he has a conscious and principals. he's disturbed by some of the things trump did and didn't do. i keep reading people saying why don't the republicans throw trump overboard? i would love it if they did. but politically they are scared to. it is that simple. some of them have internalized this to the degree they are not so opposed to pressure, to violence, to intimidation if it is on their behalf. so what's happening is mccarthy is, i think, a perfect example of where the party is unfortunately. the senate could be different. the house voted by, what, almost 2-1 to overturn the election

results in arizona and pennsylvania. what an astonishing thing with kevin mccarthy voting yes. the leader of the republican party voting on the basis of no facts, no facts at all. that's really astonishing. we have moved passed that. of course 140 house republicans voted that way. it is really unbelievable to me. the senators didn't. the senate is still a different body, you could say, than the house. mitch mcconnell has a little bit more perspective. he had a six-year term. he was just re-elected. ben sasse was just re-elected. i think there is some chance as more revelations come out that the senate looks at this and thinks, we just can't let this stand as acceptable practice. i wish the impeachment article was more broad. the president of the united states tried to overturn a democratic, free and fair

election. that's the core of it. the incitement to riot is a major part of it. the failure, the dereliction of duty while the riot was going on to do anything about it is a very mayor part of it. i think the house impeachment managers know this and they will make a broader case to the senators. i don't think it is out of the question that the senators will decide they don't want to go down in history looking like kevin mccarthy. >> still ahead, is coexistence the only option? the atlantic says millions of americans sympathize in the capitol insurrection. everyone else must figure out how to live alongside them. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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magazine, anne applebaum. anne argues that millions of americans sympathize with the capitol insurrection. everyone else must figure out how to live alongside them. outside politics, outside the law, outside the norms, the seditionists have in fact declared their independence from the rest of us. january 6 was indeed their 1776. they declared that they want to live in a different america from the one the rest of us inhabit. and, yet, they cannot be wished away or sent away or somehow locked up. they will not leave of their own accord. and americans lawful victory won't either. we have no choice except but to

coexist. the literature in the fields of peace building and conflict prevention overflows with the words such as local and commune-based and economic reagainuation. it's built on the idea that people should do something constructive, something that benefits everybody. this might not build eternal friendships, but seditionists and progressives who worked together at a vaccination center could conceivably be less likely to use pepper spray on each other at a demonstration afterward. i don't disagree with any of this, anne. but there are certain things that happened in washington up until the day trump left that are either criminal or illegal or show that there are, you know, soft holes in our democracy and our constitution that need to be shored up so that we don't find ourselves in

a position like this. how do you weigh those two together. >> there are people who committed crimes that must be held to account. i wasn't arguing that. i was pointing out a different problem, which is that there are literally millions of people who sympathize with the attack on the capitol. it is about 20%. that's a lot of americans. and saying, well, we need better education or we need social media reform, that's not going to fix the problem of how we integrate them, how we live with them. how we continue, you know, to run our democracy with that enormous number of people no longer believing the system. remember, these are people who not only do they not believe the mainstream media. that goes out saying. they don't believe the election

officials in 50 states, they don't believe republican election officials. they don't believe courts. they don't believe the supreme court. they are completely outside all structures of american government. how do they think about that? and i took some lessons, and the answers are let's talk about reactivating the america core and getting to work together on joint projects. that doesn't mean we should let people get away with anything, but it does mean that we're going to have to find a way to talk with and live with people who no longer respect american democracy. >> right, right. and i want to -- we have david ignatius sound back. i'll let to him in just a moment. but, anne, my follow-up to you

is that given these people don't believe in the name norms. they don't believe in the courts. they don't believe in basic things. and i understand working alongside them in humanity, but what about holding their leader accountable so they are walked through this to understand consequences? does that play a role in your concept? >> so i absolutely would agree with that. i mean, i am very in favor of holding trump accountable. i'm mystified that the republicans would consider otherwise given that it's obvious to me that as soon as he can he will destroy them. he doesn't have their interests at heart. of course he should be held accountable, but that doesn't deal with the longer term deeper social problem, which is that we have a large chunk of people in the united states that don't respect our political system. >> pleasure to have you on this morning. we'll be following this.

still ahead, minutes before the capitol was overrun, mitch mcconnell drew a line in the sand against donald trump. >> if this election were overturned by mere allegations from the losing side, our democracy would enter a death spiral. >> it was a welcome development for the rule of law. but our next guest says mcconnell's break with trump was yet another act of self-interest. jane mayor explains that next on "morning joe." research shows people remember commercials with nostalgia. so to help you remember that liberty mutual customizes your home insurance, here's one that'll really take you back.

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the fbi and justice department are in early discussions about not charging some of the rioters at the capitol insurrection. "the washington post" reports that doj officials are debating whether charging all of the approximately 800 people who stormed the capitol is the best course of action because of the practical concern about swamping the ports. the post writes, due to the wide variety of behavior, some

federal officials have argued internally that those people who are known only to have committed unlawful entry and were not engaged in violent, threatening or destructive behavior should not be charged according to people familiar with discussions. other agents and prosecutors have pushed back against that suggestion, argue that it is important to send a forceful message that the kind of political violence and mayhem on display january 6th needs to be punished to the full extent of the law so as to discourage similar conduct in the future. wonder what you are hearing for your contacts. i have never heard of anybody in the field of justice sort of splitting hairs about what should be tried and who shouldn't when an act -- a crime has been committed. >> i think there is a thought on the law enforcement side that they really want to spend the time and attention that they have on seeing how much of this

was a coordinated attack, how much of planning had gone into this, how much was there a larger effort to do this that went beyond the spontaneity of the protesters who arrived at the foot of the capitol? law enforcement often has to make decisions about this, about how far to charge and how they should, you know, use their resources. as the fbi has said, this is their top priority, getting to the bottom of this. so you wonder, obviously they have the resources to do this, but the larger question that i have heard that they're wrestling with is how much can they get to the bottom of what else was there. there are folks that arrived to the capitol in tactical gear. there are things that can be heard on the video footage that came out that show people trying to work together and to send messages to each other about getting into the building

inside. so how much of it was planned? and how much went into that? and who was behind that? and there is a thought that that's where all of their time and energy should go and that if you were sort of, you know, someone who had been at the ellipse and wasn't part of some larger plan to get into the capitol, ended up being there, maybe it is less important to do that. it's just a series of important decisions that the justice department will have to make about not only what happened on january 6th but the trump administration in general. how much do they want to turn back and look at what happened? do they want to look at the president's role? not just in the siege, but in other things, in the range of questions that he created throughout his presidency about whether he broke the law. and, you know, you could look at

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33 passed the hour. a live look at washington, d.c. on this monday morning. in the aftermath of the capitol riots, two of the main instigators, senators josh hawley and ted cruz are seeing drops in their approval ratings. according to a recent morning

consult poll, senator cruz dropped three points and senato. featured on today's cover of the new york post, hawley writes in part, quote, have you checked your social credit score lately? you might want to. mine seems to have taken a nosedive this month. i, for one, am not going to back down. my book will be published, and i will continue to represent the people of my state without fear or favor, whatever the left or corporations say. he was asked if he regrets objecting to the electoral college results, to which he replied, quote, no. i was representing my constituents. i did exactly what i said i was

going to do. i gave voice to my constituents and i have condemned mob violence in all its forms. when asked about how the rioters thought they could change the electoral results, he claimed that i was very clear from the beginning that i was never attempting to overturn the election. nbc's kasie hunt is with us. we have new york times reporter jeremy peters and chief washington correspondent for the new yorker jane mayor. her latest piece is entitled, "trump gets dumped. mitch mcconnell's break with him was yet another act of self-interest." but explain. >> i, right along with the rest of america, have been trying to figure this out. excuse me. although, i will say many of the clues were there and have been there for quite some time. excuse me. i'm sorry. the yearbook -- he signed one of

his yearbooks saying josh hawley, president 2024. that's all you need to know. >> yeah. and as you take care of your throat, let's go to mitch mcconnell. and you write given trump's continuing popularity in the republican party, many people in washington were surprised that mcconnell, who is by far the most powerful and almost the most inskirtable member in the congress was willing to openly revolt against him. with another impeachment trial looming in the senate, it is unclear whether mcconnell will end his pact. he sounded unequivocal and yet he's back. mitch mcconnell has really set out a time line where we're going to be learning a lot about the capitol riots in the weeks to come. could that perhaps seal the deal in mitch mcconnell's break with

trump? >> it could. the thing anyone who watches mcconnell knows is that he is a wily and, you know, strategic calculator and he would not have taken the stand if he didn't think there was a chance of winning. and by winning on the impeachment vote possibly. cementing his role in the republican party and diminishing trump's. so it's a shot across the bow. it certainly -- he's given himself many exit ramps in case it doesn't look like a conviction is possible. the republicans have been talking about making constitutional legal arguments that suggest that they don't have the authority to impeach a president and convict him after he's out of office. they have given themselves a lot of outs and so has mcconnell. but he's in a tough, tough spot. it is really tricky for him and he is scared to death according

to stuart stevens, one of the republican consultants that i interviewed for the speech because the corporate wing of the republican party is freezing its donations to any members who challenge the electoral college vote. and, so, he -- you know, this is the life blood of mcconnell's republican party, corporate donations. >> probably a good time to bring in jeremy peters, who has written an article in "the new york times" about the three types of republicans created by trump. okay, jeremy. go through them. >> i think, miikka, jane raises an excellent point about corp. ras donations. shortly after the riots, i spoke with a senior republican in the senate who said to me that mitch mcconnell is going to do whatever he thinks will get republicans back in the majority in 2022, and money is a big part of that. now, with these corporate donors

walking away saying they won't give to my republicans who voted to desertfy the electoral college results, that leaves a big void. but that void has been filled in a lot of ways by these grass roots donors but also by very wealthy people who believe in fringe causes. and now, as somebody said to me, of course, in reporting this article, is that anybody with half a million dollars really can back a crazy candidate and what they fear is going forward in 2022 in these states like georgia, arizona, ohio, places where you had republican secretaries of state, republican attorneys general, the people who really held the system together this time by objecting to trump's attempt to overturn the election, there could be a slate of trump maga candidates running for those jobs. and then what happens the next time there is a crisis like we face this time?

it is a hypothetical at this point, but as the republicans look at their dwindling cash reserves, donors sitting on their wallets typing up here, i think it is a scenario you have to really contemplate. >> so i'll get the three types of republicans in just a moment. but, jane, go ahead. >> i was just going to say there was an interesting twitter war over the weekend between someone who has worked very closely with mcconnell, raising money with him, steven law and someone from the federalist, which is the voice of trumpism. and the two of them were warring and basically what the mcconnell wing is saying is that the candidates run by the extremists don't win. they were pointing back to tea party candidates who flamed out. and they're saying if you want to be in power, you have got to play, you know, our game, basically. so there are these fissures within the republican party that show, you know, a sign of

becoming a potential republican civil war. >> so, jeremy, in your response to what jane has just stated, let me go through these types you are writing about. give me a line, rapid fire, on each one. so the three types of republicans donald trump created, the first you have is never trumpers. go. >> right. so these are the types like the lincoln project folks who were never ever going to be onboard with trump and work to shame anybody who went and worked in his administration or supported him financially. they basically become a part of the resistance. i think the question is whether or not they're able to convince more republicans to come around and join their cause that work in the suburbs in a lot of these swing states, but is it a ticket for the future? you know, i don't know. >> i agree with that. i think they have a challenge on their hands. the new rhinos. explain. >> this is a pretty peculiar

category. who would have thought the bushes and anybody who ever worked for him would be a rhino? but that's really what donald trump has done in a nutshell to this republican party, is he has re-defined it around his terms on his terms. so anybody who opposes him, dares question him is suddenly a rhino. >> and trump republicans? >> well, these are the people right now who control the party for the most part. i mean, it is where the energy is. it is where the votes are. and i think that when you look at 2022, you can really look to this impeachment trial and see where the center of gravity is right now. it is pulling away from the, you know, so-called moderates who want to somehow hold trump accountable. who are the republicans trying to hold accountable? it is not trump for inciting

this insurrection on the capitol. they want to hold people like liz cheney accountable for daring to question. that's the power dynamic you have in the party. >> go ahead, jane. go ahead, jane. >> i was going to say as a reality check also, you need both sides for the republicans to win. and if you look at some recent polling, you can see that a number of trump supporters have peeled off after january 6th. that insurrection on the mob violence on the capitol has scared off a number, maybe about 30% according to at least one poll i saw of the original trump base. and, so, i think this is more fluid than we're used to seeing in republican politics. >> the new piece trump gets dumped in the latest issue of the new yorker. jane mayer, thank you very much. thank you for coming on the show

this morning. jeremy peters, thank you as well. we will be reading your reporting in "the new york times." and given everything we just discussed, give me your take as you navigate capitol hill. it is a new day for republicans. there is a new president, but there are these three types and they all have challenges. >> i think watching what mitch mcconnell is going to do here and why is going to say a lot about the future of all of this because unlike kevin mccarthy, mcconnell hasn't changed his story. he went down to the floor before the rioters breached the walls and made a speech saying donald trump didn't win this election. we need to give this up. we cannot challenge these results. and since then, after those rioters breached the walls, he has said that the president bears -- former president bears responsibility for what happened and he has left the door open to convicting president trump. now, mitch mcconnell is somebody who operates his mémoire is

called "the long game." he operates in the future. he would be in his 80s if he won again. he just won re-election. he clearly sees this as an opportunity to try to slam the door on donald trump for the future. in the past, mcconnell has always been able to get what he wants from his fellow republicans in the senate, and that's the big question here. is he going to get enough republicans who are going to be willing to say, i'm going to put my career on the line to rid us of this former president for the future, not just of us but for the entire country. by us, i mean not just for the republican party, but for all of america. and it just seems to me in the last couple of weeks we are trending away from that, which as you know as been the story of the last four years. >> well, up next from the first women's march in january of 2017 up until trump's last day in

office this month, women have been key to standing up to the now former president. that is ahead on "morning joe." when you drive this smooth, you save with allstate the future of auto insurance is here you've never been in better hands allstate click or call for a quote today ♪ ♪ this is my body of proof. proof of less joint pain and clearer skin. proof that i can fight psoriatic arthritis... ...with humira. humira targets and blocks a specific source of inflammation that contributes to both joint and skin symptoms. it's proven to help relieve pain,

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contradict because they're not true. he said, i want the public to see. you want the public to see that you don't know what you're talking about. >> you said if someone is ripping their face-off, you rip their face-off. >> we all do that. >> and that's what it was like. >> yeah. i probably said that, you know.. they just have to know, you throw a punch, you better take a punch. >> from a grandmother -- >> yeah. >> house speaker nancy pelosi on building a reputation for not backing down to anyone, even the leader of the free world. the speaker of the house tops a formidable list of women, all over the age of 50, who did what many chose not to do, stand up to donald trump. we're going to get to that in a moment but first a quick explanation of the significance of being over 50. know your value is teaming up with forbes for a special 50 over 50 list to celebrate the women who have achieved

significant success after the age of 50, women who are overcoming barriers and shattering misconceptions about age and gender. they're hanging in there. the project coincides with much of the world's navigating how to reopen amid the ongoing 2019 pandemic and if this past year has taught us anything it's the need to find and utilize undertaped talent, unrecognized talent. let's bring in chief content officer of forbes media, and editor of forbes, randall lane. and this morning, randall, we're looking at the three women over 50 who have most stood up to trump. so let's go through it and then we'll talk about the project. nancy pelosi tops the list. tell us why. >> oh, well, you know, i've probably interviewed donald trump a dozen times and you've done it many many times we know the words he loves, best, biggest, richest, tallest, smartest, the one word he doesn't like is no, and nancy

pelosi is very good and has been very good over the last four years at saying no. she's talked about how as a mother and a grandmother she knows how to say no when someone's misbehaving, she used that analogy and she said no at the right time. to somebody who -- maybe it's a lifetime achievement award for standing up to donald trump over the last four years. >> kasie hunt? >> so tell me a little bit about number two. because liz cheney, and speaker pelosi likely agree on very dilt from an ideological perspective but they both have pushed back against this president at a time when other people didn't have the guts to do it. >> well, you know, when you think about like when jfk he won a pulitzer prize, liz cheney is what he was writing about, you make a decision based on principle, and not based on

politics. the politics for this for her are bad. she already has a primary challenger lined up inaway, the freedom caucus is looking to take her out of gop leadership from her number three spot. it's what she said on the floor, there's never been a greater betrayal by a president of his office and his oath than donald trump. that is truly doing something based on principle, not on what benefits and liz cheney, 54 years old has seen enough and knows she wants to stand up for what she believes. >> as we look at these women, nancy pelosi absolutely representing strength over time, consistent strength. and liz cheney representing courage. i mean, she really stood up when -- there are dozens of grown men in washington on capitol hill with a lot of power who just didn't have the courage to stand up and she did. she did it alone and it's really an incredible story.

and i can't have more respect for her for that. the next woman on the list, i think, is about the word impact. and she -- we don't know her that well. we don't know where she came from. we don't know what she's about but she did something incredible. randall, tell us about teresa shook, who is she, where did she come from and what did she do? >> what's great about this initiative is we have over 10,000 who have already applied for this list. we see all sorts of amazing names of people we're not as familiar with. teresa shook is one of them. she's 70 years old, retired lawyer, a grandmother, with a facebook account and that was it. what she did right after donald trump won four plus years ago was she went on a -- into a facebook group and wrote a very passionate note about he but women need to have a march to stand up to this election and

what happened then was the women's march in 2017, the day after the trump inaugural which turned out to be larger than the trump inaugural and this is a woman who had no background as an activist. she posted. it went viral, and she made it happen. >> wow. so randall, before you go, tell us about the significance of this list, 50 over 50, when's it coming out, and how has the response been? what is really driving forbes to get behind this? >> well, again, we're thrilled to be partnered with you. the response has been incredible. over 10,000 nominations and nominations have still open and i think we hit a nerve. this is -- you're absolutely right, this is an untap jped, undertaped resource, these are incredible people who have overcome -- i mean, women over 50 have been pioneers for a lot of women behind them.

when they entered the workforce it was a lot harder than it is now and we have a ways to go but these are women who know how to get things done, and want to make a difference and we've been finding just incredible, incredible stories that we're excited to share. >> forbes randall lane, thank you so much, we're just getting started. each week here on "morning joe" we're going to have a conversation with randall and others around women who have achieved significant success after the age of 50 and if you know someone who is shattering age and gender norms and would like to nominate her for our 50 over 50 feature, be sure to go to no know your value.com or to forbes.com and click 50 over 50 to learn more. you can nominate yourself, so know your value. randall, thank you very much. we close this morning with a big thank you to our colleague tom brokaw who, after more than half a century of award winning reporting, is retiring from nbc news. tom has been a fixture here on

"morning joe" for years and we have benefitted. firsthand, from his wisdom, experience and steadfast approach to journalism. tom kicked off his career at the nbc news los angeles bureau. and later led the network's coverage at the white house on the "today" show, at nightly news, and on "meet the press," over five decades he covered everything from the assassination of robert f. kennedy to the fall of the berlin wall, to 9/11. but perhaps his proudest accomplishment was his work with the greatest generation, something that began for him when he visited the beaches of normandy on the 40th anniversary of d-day. >> i walked down to the beaches with two veterans of the first wave. and they were modest, hard working, very humble people. give me a word picture of what this beach looked like. >> well, as far as you could see there were men, there were

tanks, there were trucks, there was jeeps. all over the beach. >> you could hear the shells screaming overhead. and then you could see the assault craft coming in, all along the edge of the beach. >> i thought oh my god, these are the people who raised me. these are the people in my hometown, my parents' best friends, the people i care the most about, they've been out there all this time -- did you think to yourself when you hit the sand, what am i doing here? why can't i be back home in pennsylvania? >> how true, how true. but there was an objective to be done. america needed us. >> they were young men from pennsylvania, 19 and 20. and i said to them, what do you remember? it went down, what's the first thing you saw? >> we saw a dead medic floating in the water. and believe you me, i was petrified.

i couldn't talk. i couldn't move. until the sergeant gave the orders, move out. >> i think i was just praying to stay alive that day. i didn't even think about going home. i just wanted to stay alive. >> i believe that the landing here on d-day case hardened me to a point in a matter of ten minutes that i was ready to do battle with anything that came along my way. would you do it all over again? my answer is absolutely had the do it all over again to let you here in america stay free. >> i came out of there shaken, quite frankly, how much we didn't know about what happened to them once the war was over. let's take a breath. and i thought i've got to write about this. it was like a eureka moment for me when i realized this country was built on the backs of those people who came out of the depression and fought the greatest war in history of mankind with came home and were only eager to get on with their lives. and one day on the "today" show

with katy couric, i thought about what i wanted to say, i took through all of that generation had done. the fact of the matter is, what we're celebrating it's more than a military success it's the passage of a generation of people who were at the heart of the american century, they won the war, came back to america and they built the greatest political and industrial economy ever known and they come back here now we nor mouse humility and dignity. i just can't imagine there's been a finer group of men and women anywhere. and i said at the end of it i think it's the greatest generation that any society has ever produced. >> wow, and tom brokaw will continue to be active in print journalism so we'll be hearing from him. thank you, tom. and that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. hi there, i'm stephanie ruhle, it is monday, january 25th. the first full week of the biden