i think there are some tools in democrats' arsenal that are helping them, including the president in the white house is joe biden, someone who was a successfuler earmarker back in his day. he used a tool to get projects done in delaware, like money for the dover air force base. they will try to implement more guard rails around this. i think that is the key. a lot of people look at earmarking which is specific funding for a project in their districts. they are trying to make it more transparent and hold people accountable in this process. >> thank you very much for being up early with us and sharing your reporting with us. we really appreciate it. as congress does grapple with how they're going to move forward and republicans have to decide try and whether they will stand in the way of joe biden's agenda, we saw them stay unified

with this coronavirus bill that is incredibly popular. the strategy worked with the obama administration. my question, is it going to work under the biden administration? don't go anywhere. "morning joe" starts right now. >> it was only once we were married, and everything started to worsen that i came to understand that not only was i not being protected but that we were willing to lie to protect other members of the family but they weren't willing to tell the truth to protect me and my husband. >> explain how you, prince harry, raised in a palace in a life of privilege, literally a prince, how you were trapped? >> trapped within the system. like the rest of my family, my father and my brother, they are trapped. they don't get to leave. and i have huge compassion for that. >> a look at twitter feeds

overnight, and it was clear that you all were watching one thing, and one thing only. of course the nba all-star game. oprah, it was a bombshell. a total bombshell interview with prince parry and his wife meghan. they accuse the royal family of protecting them and say the palace expressed concerns about their child's skin tone. we'll talk about that. and joe biden is set to pass a piece of landmark legislation. it's actually historic on many levels. the covid relief bill has widespread support from the american public. 49 republican senators did not support it. over 7 5% of americans, according to some polls, did.

they could, however, support tax cuts for the rich, which carried a similar price tag a couple of years ago when of course did little to nothing for those who needed it the most. good morning. with us we have white house reporter jonathan lemire, host of politics nation reverend al sharpton, and washington anchor for bbc world news america, katty kay. katty, i was going to talk to you about what i thought was the biggest story out of great britain was yesterday. that of course man city's winning streak being broken. i'm sure that resonated in your house. and also liverpool's continued losing. my god. but this interview last night, this is when i knew it was big, all right. so i'm just -- mika is visiting one of her daughters. so i'm just like, it's a normal sunday night. i'm on clubhouse listening to a

lecture on macroeconomics and the modern man or something like that. and mika is calling me going, are you watching this interview? i said you can't stand anything to do with the royals. i had to force you to watch "the crown." she was watching the whole thing. apparently everybody else was. this had to be the most shocking since princess diana back in '96, '97 had her bombshell interview. what was your take away from it? >> yes, my husband was upset about the man city watch. i avoid royal stories. i don't report on them that much. i could not take my eyes away. judging my twitter feed, the east coast was all glued as well.

they were watching in london at 2:00, 3:00 in the morning. they were all glued, the journalists, watching this too. it was one bombshell after another. the palace is dealing with what is effectively a p.r. nightmare on their hands. and the most critical comment that was made, the one that is going to raise questions about the palace and its ethos is when meghan talked about how when she was pregnant with baby archie there were conversations in the palace about what color the baby would be when it was born. take a listen. >> in those months when i was pregnant, all around this same time, -- so we have in tandem the conversation of you won't be given security. he's not going to be given a title. and also concerns and conversations about how dark his

skin might be when he's born. >> what? >> meghan shared with us there was a conversation with you about archie's skin tone. >> uh-huh. >> what was that conversation? >> that conversation i am never going to share. but at the time, at the time it was awkward. i was a bit shocked. >> can you tell us what the question was? . >> no. i'm not comfortable sharing that. . >> okay. >> but that was right at the beginning, right? >> like what will the baby look like? . >> yeah. what will the kids look like. >> so, katty, i didn't watch the entire interview, i'm ashamed to say to my twitter friends. but did she suggest whether it was a member of the family, whether it was a functionary inside buckingham palace?

any idea who she says asked that question to her? any idea at all where that may have come from? >> so neither of them would name names. oprah tried to push them especially both on this a bit. harry there not naming names. meghan also not naming names. at one point meghan said it was a member of the family asking the question. she said she only heard about this discussion through harry. meghan heard it through harry. harry was being asked about it by somebody in the palace. we are only hearing their points of view. >> yes. . >> we have to have that as a caveat. but they haven't specifically named name. that has to be one of the criticisms in the uk. you are making this incredible allegation of racism and

bigotry. you haven't said who it was, so that could leave some skeptical about the question. that was the bombshell moment in the interview. the other is when meghan was talking about what it was like to be in the royal family. there were echoes of diana and everything she went through when she was married to prince charles. and she talked about in very blunt, very unbritish language her own mental health and how desperate she was when she was in that situation. take a listen. >> look, i was really ashamed to say it at the time and ashamed to have to admit it to harry especially because i know how much loss he's suffered. >> uh-huh. >> but i knew that if i didn't say it, that i would do it. and i just didn't want to be alive anymore. and that was a very clear and

real and frightening constant thought. >> my biggest concern was history repeating itself. i've said that before on numerous occasions very publicly. and what i was seeing was history repeating itself. more perhaps or definitely far more dangerous. you add race in and social media in. i'm talking about my mother. when you can see something happening in the same kind of way, anybody would ask for help, ask the system of which you are part of, especially when you know there's a relationship there that they could help and share some truth or call the dogs off, whatever you want to call it. so to receive no help at all and to be told continuouslyings, this is how it is.

this is just how it is. we have all been through it. >> that does sound an awful lot about the challenges princess diana was going through in the 1980s and 1990s that they never responded to, the palace. let's just circle back for a second. for americans that haven't been following this closely, obviously this has been a long, simmering feud. they have been throwing jabs at each other, the couple and buckingham palace, the last year or so. it got ugly a week ago. h.r. complaints lodged against meghan because she was -- for whatever reasons. i'm not going to even get into it. and now they come out with this charge. again, not defending the palace. i'm not defending them. in fact, i understand completely

with everything harry has gone through why he is doing what he is doing, and i think it's very admirable. but these charges that basically stopped the world last night was may tkpapb saying harry told him that somebody said something to him that is checkmate. that is checkmate. somebody asks a racist question about a future baby-to-be. i think somebody needs to come forward with a name before everybody in the world, everybody in the press, everybody in britain, immediately goes down, you know, that trail. >> you know, it's really interesting watching the different reaction this couple get here in the u.s. compared to in the uk. so last night watching it here in the u.s. almost uniform sympathy for the couple, outrage at the allegations that were

being leveled against the british monarchy. a huge amount of support for them. praise that meghan was being brave, talking about her mental health issues and talking about how desperate it must have been. and how she is being treated very badly by the british tabloids. almost of people posting comparisons about meghan and kate, the implication is ones about meghan are much more critical. much more favorable with kate. of course it raises the issue of this is the first non-white mixed race person to enter the royal family, and how did the centuries old institution that never had somebody of mixed race, openly come in and marrying the family, how they are going to deal with that given it is an old institution. you're right. there is so far only the words

of meghan and harry to oprah winfrey. we don't have more than that. and i was looking at the uk tabloid press, particularly those pro-monarchy, they are completely different from here. people calling harry and meghan selfish. saying it was cringy, self-indulgent. one said they should be stripped of their titles of duke and duchess. they have this investigation of an hr issue of whether megan was a bully when she was living at frogmorakot taj. that's all we have kind of officially at the moment. it's going to be fascinating to see if the palace responds. whether they decide if it's better to not to say anything. it's possible. they don't like to talk in public. they will want to push back on allegations of racism. without a name, i'm not sure how

we do it. the one person who was named who doesn't come out well was actually named by harry, and that was quite a shock too. he said he was in canada over the christmas holidays, they were having discussions whether he would step pack from royal life. he said i called my grandfather three times and i called my father a couple of times before he stopped taking my calls. and that small phrase from harry i think is -- you know, that is really opening there the rift between harry and his father. >> i don't know what goes on in that family, obviously. i was watching live when he said that. and i thought, eh, is that really necessary to say? especially when you find out later they are talking again. one final thing, katty. i'm not being a skeptic. just everybody i heard swallowed everything whole, 100%.

so, please, everybody, excuse me for actually asking questions here. but i kept hearing meghan talk about this is different, yes, it's bad for everybody. and it is. every member of the royal family are just put through a meat grinder by the british press. it's worse than anything that we could even begin to understand over here. i'm sure she didn't get a lot of sympathy when she said, look, they were doing this with me. they said it was different with meghan because of race. they were racist. the coverage was racist. the headlines were racracist. i found a lot of tough headlines in my google search. but you could do that with every royal. what paper, what tabloid was racist towards her? again, it's not something i follow every day. but they kept talking about racist coverage that put their

life in danger. what newspaper was particularly racist toward meghan? >> so there was a couple of headlines that were definitely racially racist towards meghan. it was early on. meghan "straight outta compton". the indication if you are not white in america, not white in california, you come from the place that is most synonymous with gang violence in southern california. >> right. >> there was a monkey reference. and i think it was in the context of either meghan or the potential baby. it came up on the screen. i didn't check exactly where it came from. yes, that is "straight outta compton" one got a lot of play. she's not white, therefore she is from the ghetto kind of in a tough area of the country. the assumption being of course. it is not meghan's case.

but in the minds of that headline writer, she was black, therefore, that's what she was. so, yeah, you can point to some of those moments where it was racially tinged. like you, i'm here saying we have only heard their point of view. there's going to be a lot being skeptical month said she went into marrying harry without doing her research on what it was like to marry into the royal family. perhaps it was foolish of you not to do that. but she is more articulate than diana. she is older and more confident than diana. she was financially independent when she went into the family and had always worked, which is very different than diana. she levels her criticism of the institution of the palace and the british press, not just the marriage to charles. and harry backs her up. for all of those reasons, i

think this interview is more damaging to the family than diana's interview with martin bashir. >> diana, again, a beloved figure. very divisive inside the palace. and there are obviously real similarities between the two when it comes to just how much contempt some mechanics of the family held for them. let's bring in "morning joe"'s official royal watcher, the reverend al sharpton. not your usual beat here. but did you see the interview last night? and based on everything you've seen, what's your take away? . >> i did not see the entire interview, but i did see the part that was clearly the blockbuster about racism.

i honestly think that people cannot underestimate the impact of the charge that someone questioned what the color of the baby was going to be. and the reason i say this is let's go back a minute. when the whole world celebrated this wedding that had an african-american minister doing the sermon or the homily, that had gospel music from african-american music. and then we began saying isn't this wonderful? the royal family embracing multicultualism and inclusion. and now we find the statement that they were questioning about the color of the skin of her child. now, one must assume if harry said they questioned him, this was not somebody that worked outside of the gate. it had to be someone of stature

that would even be able to engage in that conversation. and if buckingham palace does not come out with a clear statement like right away, i think they will be devastated in terms of global acceptance that they are not in fact, bigoted or at let's condoning bigotry. this is earth shattering. who can go to buckingham palace and have tea and wonder whether or not they are dealing with people biased? i think they must answer it. and i think part of the answer may be to challenge harry on naming who said it. but no one is going to believe that someone standing guard at the gate could even ask harry about the color of the skin about the child that's about to be born. it had to be someone in the family or at least very senior in the staff. >> yeah. they do. you're exactly right, rev.

buckingham palace needs to respond to this immediately. and i'm sure they will. because obviously it's caught the attention of the world. and a lot of questions. a lot of questions out there. let's move on now to news. president biden's sweeping $1.9 trillion coronavirus relief bill is heading back to the house after the senate passed it on saturday along party line votes, 50-49. with every republican senator voting no. the legislation includes one-time direct payments up to $1,400 for millions of eligible americans, $300 per week jobless benefits through the summer, $350 billion for state and local aid, and $14 billion for vaccine distribution. president biden spoke on saturday after the senate passed the bill. . >> i want to thank all of the senators who worked so hard to

reach a compromise, do the right thing for the american people during this crisis and voted to pass the american rescue plan. it obviously wasn't easy. it wasn't always pretty. but it was so desperately needed. urgently needed. >> when i was elected, i said we were going to get the government out of the business of battling on twitter. and back in the business of delivering for the american people. of making a difference in their lives, giving everyone a chance, a fighting chance of showing the american people that their government can work for them. and passing the american rescue plan will do that. >> so let's bring in former treasury official and economic analyst steve ratner and founder of "punchbowl news" rick sherman. i want to circle back to

reverend al. a historic bill, by any measure, whether people like it or don't like it, and most americans, 75%, 76% of americans like this bill, this is a historic bill that actually is sort of sneakily earth shattering. we have been talking about this, debating about the price tag, debating about the benefits. but this actually shifts money to the truly disadvantaged and to working class americans in a way, my gosh, that really no bill has in decades. >> no one can really look at this and not say this is a monumental bill that just has so many far-reaching ram fissions for the disadvantaged, those who have been marginalized, more

than we have seen in decades. you cannot underestimate or downplay this bill. the fact that it got through without one republican vote, the fact that it has this far-reaching impact, notwithstanding. you have to give joe biden-kamala harris administration credit. they have changed the trajectory of where government was going in terms of dealing with the needs of the people, rather than the wealthy and the rich. . >> steve ratner, i understand you and i had economic questions about this bill, whether it was giving too much to -- well, in just about every area. by too much, simply defining too much as putting more money into state and local deposits than they actually have lost during the covid crisis and other areas as well. politically, let's talk about

this for a second politically. then we will get into the economics of it. it's hard to believe a single republican did not vote for this bill, this covid relief bill when 76% of americans supported it. but they all lined up to vote for a bill that ensured that amazon paid zero in taxes, ensured that the rich -- not 1% but the richest .1% in america made loads of money, that allowed donald trump that night to brag at mar-a-lago all of his millionaire friends, i just made you a lot richer that day. they all lined up for that bill. but not a single one voted for a bill that moves money to working class and those struggling in the middle class as well. how stark does that look on paper?

>> enormously stark, to your point. the republicans will go up for re-election. all of the house, a third of the senate in two years. they are going to have to defend why they opposed a bill like this that is so popular and does so much for some people. yes, i have concerns about the oversize size of the bill and the effect on the overall economy. when you drill down and see what it does for people, it is really the most -- it is the most extraordinary piece of legislation that i've seen in a very long time. . >> what have you got? show us your chart, steve. i know you didn't come empty handed. you never do. >> i don't come empty handed. to echo what you and the reverend were saying, this election has turned out to be the most consequential since 1932 when roosevelt succeeded hoover. we have moved from a government that basically says it wants to

do less, pull back, as biden just said in the clip that you showed, to a government that wants to lean in and solve problems in an aggressive way like we haven't seen before. the way i wanted to demonstrate for you today to compare, as you alluded to before, the trump tax cut from early 2017, his first signature piece of legislation to the american rescue plan of joe biden. you can see on the left side -- by the way, these pieces of legislation are almost the same size of $1.9 trillion. u see the tcga was about tax cuts for businesses, the red pie slice, and for people making more than $75,000, the blue slice. and then 16% for people making less than $75,000. it is like night and day.

when you look to the right side and you see the american rescue plan. yes, there's a lot aimed at covid on the right side. but 52%, the two slice his on the right are aid to individuals, checks, unemployment, tax cuts for children or for child care. so when you look at the bottom of this one, $143 billion of tax cuts and $1.75 trillion of spending increases. so the most dramatic shift in philosophy of government, as i said, really going back 70 or 80 years. and then if you look another way at the impact of these, the next chart, you can see this perhaps even more starkly. this is how each of these bills affected people at different income levels. so on the left side you have the lowest income level, lowest 20% of people. 23% of the benefits of this plan go to those people in the bottom

20%. only 1%, only 1% of the tcja went to those people. if you look over at the right, 65%, the red bar, 65% of the tcja went to the top 20% of americans and just 11% of this bill, mostly the $1,400 checks which cut off themselves at $160,000, went to the top 11%. you can see the dramatic skewing and who is helped and who is helped more and who is helped less between these two bills. lastly, let's take a look at this whole notion of government leaning back in and becoming more muscular and what government can do if it does. this is the poverty rate. this is what the government estimates living at or below the poverty line. it was higher in 2012. and then it drifted down. the black oval is the tcja.

i barely moved the poverty rate down. look at the dotted blue line that ends in the black circle. this is what is estimated the american rescue plan will do. cut poverty by a third. we have never done anything like that in our entire history in one year. cut child poverty by more than half. bring poverty down to just over 8%. you can see it was drifting 12% to 16% before this bill was passed. it was thought of as a covid relief bill. it will make good on biden's campaign promise that he will be focused on people in need toward the bottom. it is a dramatic piece of legislation. it may be too large for some of us. could have been done in a more targeted fashion. but you can't mistake the enormous impact of this bill and

the contrast to the last administration. >> yeah. and what's really so unbelievable, and talk about elections having consequences. donald trump working that last month before the georgia runoff, doing everything he could do to create a civil war in georgia, undercut the candidates, to attack everybody, make it all about himself, continue to spread the big lie in a way that kept people from going out and voting. having people that were, actually, you know, working with him saying it doesn't matter whether you vote for not. elected two democrats in georgia, two democrats that normally wouldn't win that state. but that made all the difference in the world. and it really is. it's history bending. you look -- we have talked about this before and others said it.

it's not an original thought that the united states was shaped by fdr. we lived if dr's world. we are all now children of fdr. from 1932 to 1980, fdr's world view shamed american politics. from 1980 to 2020, ronald reagan's view of the world shaped american politics. and really the outlines of the debate. this bill, again, which 76% of americans support, takes us into a new era. that was a political bloodbath that barely got through and caused a great unrest that created the tea party movement. this piece of legislation more than three out of four americans support which, again, shows us

that we have moved beyond the reagan era. not exactly sure what this era is going to look like. but it's not going to look like the period we were in from 1980 to 2020. jonathan lemire, what's the white house's reaction to this seismic political victory? i would guess they have to be awfully pleased at how it went? >> they truly are. of course they wanted some sort of bipartisan support when they began this process. they point to the polls that even if republican lay makers aren't backing the bill, republican voters are, as well as some mayors and other elected officials elsewhere in the country. they are thrilled. and i think we should start with the top line. joe biden proposed a $1.9 trillion relief package. and that's what's happening. sure, there were adjustments along the way. but this is a seismic victory to go in and be able to achieve

what was promised indeed in part because of the two georgia runoff seats. they are embracing the bigness of this bill, including the idea that it directly attacks major societal issues of poverty. they are aggressively trying to do so now. >> how are they dealing with their own party? i know that there were actually progress if's that were complaining that this didn't do enough. there was some fighting going back and forth, attacks against joe manchin and kyrsten sinema. how do they feel those back and forths are going? i would think every progressive has to understand this is the most historic piece of legislation to help working class and middle class americans

that this country has put forward in decades. >> well, there were certainly some sarcastic behind the scenes commentary about joe manchin. his outside influence on the process right now. those in the west wing aren't always delighted about that. they recognize that deals had to get made. and in terms of attacks from the left, they are actually really grateful for the support of bernie sanders, who they believe has given them progressive cover here. yes, there are some on the left portions of the party in the house who have some complaints, who might make a little bit of noise this week. they feel if bernie sanders is on board with this and released a statement afterwards touting how historic and necessary it was, the progress if's will fall in line too. this party has been able to, despite some of this opposing tension, stay together for this bill.

>> jake sherman, another poll came out that showed just how popular this bill was. and how popular joe biden is. 68% of americans approve of the way that joe biden is handling the response to the coronavirus. only 32%, one in three, disapprove. we look at the numbers, this extraordinarily popular bill. i'm a bit surprised one or two republicans didn't figure out a way to get over to the yes side of the margin. but none of them did. it was like a party line vote against one of the most, as we have said already, seismic pieces of legislation. one of the most popular pieces of legislation that has moved through congress in years. other than reading dr. seuss books, what's the strategy for the grand old party? >> you know, the strategy is to say it's too big. i do think as we approach a

midterm election in which as you know because you came out in one of these waves, where the president's party is going to lose if history is pressing 27 seats. i think that is the average. if we get over this virus, that's on joe biden. it helps joe biden and the republicans can lay claim, can take credit for none of that. and especially that they have voted for most of the component parts of this bill. there's nothing in this legislation if you break it down as steve did before, there's nothing in this legislation that they have opposed whole cloth. maybe they say that the state and local is too big. maybe they don't like the overall cost. but they have supported all the component parts in the past, which makes me surprised that lisa murkowski didn't go along.

mcconnell, mitch mcconnell, senate minority leader, was very firm that his entire party was going to be against it. kevin mccarthy is suggesting similar loyalty. i think that's why the conventional wisdom about the midterm elections that republicans are definitely going to take back the house, it's not quite cooked yet, right? >> no. >> again, if the two things are happening, we're getting rid of the virus that paralyzed the globe and we are, and people feel like the government has done a good job in supporting them in their time of need, that is something that only at this point democrats can lay a claim to. >> in 2010, early in 2010, i was saying the democrats had moved too far left. republicans were going to have a big off-year election in 2010 just because the way the arguments could be lined up. you could see the 30-second ads

were going to be lined up. but, katty kay, oh, my god, i would love to be a democratic congressman or congresswoman to put together a 30-second ad, to put together a stump speech comparing what all republicans voted for in donald trump's billionaire tax cut two years ago, and what they all voted against, lock-step, straight out of a tkrft sues book, people locking arms and whoville and walking step by step by step over the end of a cliff. it lines up very badly for the republican party politically. >> yeah. all they need to do is take

steve's chart that he showed earlier with the huge amount of money going to the wealthiest in the red column from the trump tax cuts and much more even distribution particularly amongst lower and middle income families from the plan that passed this weekend. and that's your ad that you have to run. and the money hasn't even got to people yet. so imagine once people start receiving, earning $100,000. they get their unemployment insurance that's boosted and extended a little bit longer. the bill is likely to become more popular, at least in the short-term as people start receiving the money. maybe at some point people will get more not less. it's a great thing to run on. . >> as someone who has written three books about deficits, nobody cares. they just don't care. jake sherman, as we move forward

and people start getting their checks, it becomes more popular as we move forward in state and local governments start getting money to be able to make people's life on the local level more comfortable. it will get more comfortable. as you move forward and everything opens up, it will get more popular. this is, again, lining up fairly well for joe biden, unless there is some unforeseen event. let me ask you, though, what's the next step for the biden white house? what's their next piece of legislation? >> yeah. they have been a little bit cagey on this, but it's not difficult to see what they're going to do next. they want to do a large-scale infrastructure and highway spending bill that, in their estimates, could be 1.5 trillion and 3 trillion. soon enough, we will be talking about real money here, as they say. i will say this, that actually holds a lot more political peril

and danger than this rescue package. if you remember, joe, in 2010, the stimulus -- not only did they not sell it well, but the republicans were able to brand it as a boondoggle. steve was in the administration i believe at this time, so he could probably speak a little bit more, although he wasn't directly involved in this, i don't think. but it was a lot easier to criticize. this is harder to criticize because it's spret straight up and republicans have voted for everything. but if you move to an infrastructure bill, it just gets a lot more messy. especially since they talk about bringing back earmarks but open it up to political peril on the other end. i think they have to proceed with caution here, and i think they understand that. and joe manchin, over the weekend, i think to michael lessen on "axios" hbo show, said he would not vote for an infrastructure spending bill if it was done on reconciliation, if it was done by one party

only. as an important marker he is laying now. we will see if he sticks to that. that gets a lot trickier. you are talking about building roads and bridges and keep deficit spending without any new revenue. it gets tricier for the party. >> rev, isn't it time for the democrats now -- they did what they had to do with this bill. isn't it time for them to move to voting rights? isn't that really the alarm that's going off, that they have to take care of? >> absolutely. especially when you see republicans around the country, in 33 states, with new voting laws on a state level that many of us feel are outright voter suppression laws. congress must immediately deal with voting. the president came out yesterday on the anniversary of bloody sunday march of 1965.

i think the next big one is voting. they must legislate to stop these states that all over the country are going back on early voting, automatic voting, ex-felons voting. we need federal law right now. we can't wait another day. thank you so much. jake sherman, thank you for your reporting. steve ratner, thank you, as always, for your charts. >> still ahead, with more and more coronavirus restrictions being lifted, dr. anthony fauci has a new warning about a possible fourth wave. plus, florida governor ron desantis facing accusations of getting vaccines to the rich, leaving others behind. we'll explain that next to "morning joe". plain that next to "morning joe".

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>> yesterday we came and stand in line for one hour. and the police say you go home. tomorrow, 8:00, you be fine. so we come today, we stand here. >> that was the scene at a miami area vaccination site on saturday where they turned out to vaccinating everybody in line. that was not the case yesterday when the same spot was overwhelmed and forced to revert back to state age requirements for people 65 years and up. meanwhile, governor ron desantis is facing allegations of vaccine favoritism. last thursday we told you about the "miami herald" report that found residents living in a wealthy gated enclave in the florida keys received the coronavirus vaccine while the

rest of the state is still struggling to get a first dose. a newsletter abstained by "the herald" found all residents age 65 and over living at the ocean reef club had been vaccinated by mid-january. the area is home to many wealthy donors to the florida republican party and gop candidates, including governor ron desantis. they said he was not involved in choosing the ocean reef club. yeah, right. he didn't explain how the club obtained so many doses ahead of time. the hospitals county contradicted claims saying the distribution was authorized by the state.

nbc news reached out to the governor's office for comment but didn't hear about. some officials have called for an fbi investigation into the matter, including our next guest. florida commissioner of agriculture and consumer services, democrat nikki fried joins us now. also with us, state attorney for palm beach county, dave aronberg. and msnbc political analyst fehr fernand armandi. i was chuckling because people who don't know florida or aren't familiar with florida, that is one of the most elite spots in the entire state of florida. and what a coincidence that it was -- they somehow, those extraordinarily wealthy republican donors down there got a shot at the vaccine before most other floridians.

>> yeah. first of all, good morning, joe. it's good to start my morning with my favorite people from florida. but you're actually right. we have seen what's happening across the state of florida. this is just the last of the incidents. we saw pop-up sites in charlotte and manatee county, very exclusive zip codes for just those areas. wealthy donors giving money to desantis and the republican party. they are fact patterns that are consistent. i have seen fact patterns up close and personal. when there is smoke, there's typically fire. if this is not public corruption on its face, i don't know what else. . >> jonathan lemire has a question. jonathan. >> dave aronberg, good morning. good to see you. walk us through the legal questions surrounding this. what sort of investigation could be launched, what sort of penalties could be paid.

we're obviously in a new frontier here. we haven't had a mass vaccination in decades. what sort of laws are on the books? what can people do to make sure this is done equitiably. . >> states have a lot of discretion. florida does not even have a detailed plan for distribution. that's the way governor desantis wants it because it gives him legal leeway to play favorites. to put vaccines in certain communities over others. that in itself is not a crime. because he set those rules up. what would make it a crime it becomes bribery. but you would need a direct quid pro quo. you need to directly tie the campaign contribution to the vaccine. you would also need to show that the governor had firsthand knowledge of said vaccine.

the longer the time, the harder it is to prosecute. it's not impossible. you would need a whistle-blower, maybe a donor who wants to cooperate with the investigators. maybe a paper trail. absent that, it's an uphill climb. it clearly smells bad. as reverend al likes to say, there is a difference between crime and slime. and not everything that is slimy is crimy. >> yeah. >> you currently don't have that evidence of a direct quid pro quo. the best tribunal for this would be the court of public opinion. >> yeah. you need an email, a text, smoking gun for that kweud pro kwoel. fernand, politically, it seems to me, it probably will be the biggest challenge for ron desantis maybe in the next campaign. >> no doubt, joe.

>> the spspectre hangs over. if we take stock, his political party is doing him no favors. if you think about it, over the coming weeks, the vast majority of americans will receive a $1400 stimulus check and this life-saving vaccine and the fact that the democratic party where the authors of this, that does not do anything to help desantis's perceptions. florida is the front line for trumpism. desantis is on a short leash. anything he might try and do to try politically to take advantageous steps for vaccine distribution are going to be undercut by the man in palm

beach county at mar-a-lago. at any moment pulling back on the reins a little bit. these stories and reports as "the herald" ta ud about made it that much harder for good faith to be built. >> katty kay is with us and has a question. katty. >> the idea that this has to be litigated in the court of public opinion, or that might be the most effective form, that will not be here for a while in the case of ron desantis because he has just been elected. what are the next steps of any investigation, potential legal fallout for him. >> yeah. so we have contacted the fbi and have given them our factual information that we know. the problem with the vaccines overall, going back to public opinion, because of the fact

that there has not been a clear plan here in the state of florida, right now 50% of the vaccines have gone to white american arms, white floridians lives. going back to public opinion, you can see because the fact that the vaccines have gone to these donor locations and seeing some of the wealthy donors, and people coming into the states that were on the boards of hospitals and wealthy donors from outside the state of florida. the next step to continue to elevate the issues, to make sure the public understands what is happening, this is corruption even if the fbi finds no criminal activity, it is going to go to public opinion. he is back up for re-election as governor in 2022. this is pay-to-play politics in the state of florida and quite frankly public corruption at its worst. >> commissioner, thank you.

david aronberg, thank you very much as well. we'll be back on "morning joe". stay with us. back on "morning " stay with us i think the sketchy website i bought this turtle from stole all of my info. ooh, have you looked on the bright side? discover never holds you responsible for unauthorized purchases on your card. (giggling) that's my turtle. fraud protection. discover. something brighter.

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trump. there's a dark side and there's some magic there. what i'm trying to do is just harness the magic. to me, donald trump is sort of a cross between jesse helms, ronald reagan, and p.t. barnum. just this bigger-than-life deal. he could make the republican party something that nobody else i know could make it. he could make it bigger. he could make it stronger. he could make it more diverse. and he also could destroy it.

>> senator lindsey graham speaking with jonathan swan of "axios". i don't know if jonathan does that. i guess the oprah of capitol hill. how does he get people to say things like that? harness the magic? he led an insurrection to overturn a constitutional process that guaranteed the peaceful transition of power. harness the magic? calling for violence. not just then but looking at his television set gleefully while kevin mccarthy and others were screaming at him, begging him to call off his terrorists. that's actually not magic. that's sedition. i mean, we're all talking about

1/6. it's not like a week before the election he wasn't refusing to actually guarantee a people transition. it's not like a week or two before the election he wasn't pressuring his attorney general to arrest his political opponent two weeks before an election. or telling white supremacist groups with a history of violence to stand by. magic. that's -- lindsey graham defines that as magic. it's the definition of fascism. it really is. somebody that, again, ultra right nationalist that is always talking about -- attacking the others, somebody who talks about violence, uses violent rhetoric. which he did going back to 2016

and his campaign events, telling people to beat up protesters in the crowd and he'd pay for their legal fees. bragging about a republican congressman who beat up and got arrested for beating up a reporter because the reporter asked him a question about health care policy? that's not magic. but that is lindsey graham. that is, ladies and gentlemen, your republican party. jonathan lemire, katty kay and reverend al are all still with us. let's bring in nbc capitol hill correspondent and host of "way too early", kasie hunt. and chief white house correspondent for the "new york times", peter baker. peter, quick question we were talking about last hour, obviously this is a landmark piece of legislation that just

passed. it is one of the most dramatic pieces of poverty legislation we have seen in decades. what is the reaction from the white house? what is the reaction from the hill? how big of a piece of legislation is this? >> well, i think it is a big piece of legislation. it is three pieces of legislation rolled into one. there is the obvious covid relief aspect, which is how it has been presented and advertised. that's only a piece of it. the other two pieces of course massive economic stimulus. another $1.9 trillion pumped into the economy. some economists worry whether that would be too much. the third part is what you talk about. a big policy bill, anti-poverty bill. joe biden's version of the great

society. not creating new programs but bolstering an attack on child poverty in particular through child tax credits and child care subsidies as well as emergency food aid and others. some of this would expire and would have to be reconstituted by a democratic congress before next year's midterms where they have the potential of using. is the white house trying to sell it to progress if's who are not satisfied. some changes were made that went against the direction they wanted. they don't have the $15 minimum wage. they trimmed back on the expanded unemployment payments at the end a little bit. but, you know, broadly speaking, joe biden has done when barack obama came into office, never let a good crisis go to waste. they are pushing through big

policy that goes beyond immediate relief efforts. >> much bigger. much bigger spending bill than even the relief act of 2009. casey hill, i want to get to the hill and its reaction. i understand you are bitterly disappointed you didn't get a chance to talk about the royals. i'm going to give you that space right now. because we're not running the tapes again. what was your take away? >> so, joe, i was looking to you and katty, who i think is brilliant, obviously. but wurp talking at one point the difference in the media coverage between how kate is covered and how meghan was covered by the new york tabloids. and there was a brilliant piece in buzzfeed news that put the headlines next to each other that described kate and meghan

doing exactly the same things, cradling their baby bumps in public for example, pregnant kate tenderly cradles the baby bump. experts tackle the question. is it pride, vanity, acting or a new bonding technique? this is just one example of so many that show how meghan was treated differently. and it makes what they were willing to say here just so incredibly remarkable and so incredibly tragic and sad. i remember watching the wedding, they had a party at the british embassy celebrating them getting married. everybody watched on big screens. it was stunning to be able to see the pastor, reverend al talked about, the gospel music that was brought into the ceremony, it really made it feel like, hey, we are stepping into a new, more modern era.

for everything they were willing to say out loud, imagine the things they haven't been willing to say out loud about what actually goes on behind the scenes. it's just stunning. frankly, i want was a big week, you're right, in capitol hill news. obviously that's what i focus on day to day. like everybody else, aren't we all talking about this? >> apparently so. you know if mika calls me and she's watching it, and she is anti-royal watchers as there is. it's when i figured out everybody was watching. let's talk about the passage of one of the most important pieces of legislation. whether you love it or don't love it, most americans love it, in quite some time. >> yeah. >> what do you think we're going to see in the house? is it going to easily pass through the house of representatives? >> joe, i don't think there realistically is a group of

house democrats who are going to step out and torpedo president biden's most major piece of legislation out of the gate. it doesn't mean there is not discontent and nancy pelosi's job isn't tricky in keeping progress if's on board and trying to give them some of what they want. i don't think anybody wants to be the person that ultimately cinques this. i do think there is a lot of anger building at joe manchin among progress if's who watched him walk back, have democrats negotiate with themselves to try and get this through instead of dealing with fighting with republicans standing united. i think there were certainly some republicans i talked to over the weekend watching with a raised eyebrow thinking what are democrats doing to themselves and how they are walking back this bill because of where joe manchin was on it. that is a dynamic to watch for sure. that said, manchin on "meet the press" over the weekend, made comments suggesting he might be open to how the filibuster is

used. it is in the weeds and down the road complicated. it shows there is growing frustration with republicans blocking this legislation. it is clearly for the republican senators, a tactic to use to oppose this as they try to win elections, to reset the table in a way to let them recover from the trump era, standing together to do this. the fact that manchin is ready to say, if you want to stop it, just send an email. it might need to look like mr. smith goes to washington. you might have to put some sweat and tears into an effort to block something. that is another thing to keep an eye on. . >> it's going to be interesting. joe manchin has been direct about not wanting to get rid of the filibuster. but we are now going to be

looking, jonathan lemire, at the biden team and democrats pushing a voting rights bill. i don't think joe or any other democrat is going to want to be seen as a person that stands in the way of protecting voting rights for a lot of democratic voters. especially for black democratic voters and hispanic democratic voters. . >> certainly right. black voteers who are seen as so key to biden's election in 2020. and what we saw in georgia that gave the democrats the majority in the senate. we saw a coordinated push from the white house in recent days pegged to "bloody sunday" anniversary that is absolutely going to be something they proceed with in the weeks and months ahead. it is still forth coming after this $1.9 trillion package gets

signed into law the end of this week. a huge infrastructure and jobs bill. they feel this is something that needs to be done. manchin is going to play a key role in all of these talks too. it will be interesting to see how they make that sell. they have been able to pressure -- they are not too concerned about blowback from republicans. they feel they can use this bill to score some political points because republicans stand in opposition to something that is so popular amongst americans. we will be hearing from president biden, who i wrote over the weekend has gone the longest without having a solo news conference. that is going to change now that this bill has passed. they were waiting for this to be done. when it gets done at the end of the week, we expect to him

addressing a joint session of congress, doing a news conference, expecting him to take this across the country to both tout the success and the victory of this bill, but the need for the next one. >> all right. let's bring in one of the two senators that put this bill into the party. what a month it has has been for you. you get elected and an upset. then of course we have the president of the united states leading an insurrection against the u.s. government. now here we are in early march and one of the most dramatic pieces of legislation to pass the senate in quite some time with your vote being the deciding vote. talk about it. >> yeah. the stimulus bill, joe -- thank you. and good morning for having me. the stimulus is the most substantial economic relief

package for working and middleclass americans in the nation's history. it is extraordinary what it will do to improve daily life and the investments in public health and safely reopening the country will help us get back to normal between the stimulus checks, the child allowance, the tax credits. it's going to make a profound difference in the household finances for millions and millions of americans. and we would not have been able to pass this legislation, despite the fact that it has overwhelming bipartisan public support had we not won the two races in georgia in january. and we could not have won the two races in georgia in january without record-shattering black turnout. and that's exactly why the politicians in georgia right now who are no better than bull connor and figures of the jim crow era are trying to strip the right away from black voters in

the south today. . >> yeah. i'm going to talk to you about that in one moment. that voting rights bill that is going to probably be up next. but i wanted to ask about what you are going to be saying in the coming weeks and months throughout parts of georgia. i was born in the outskirts of atlanta in doraville. a lot of former republicans just like me who voted for you and you're going to need those votes as well if you're going to be able to govern effectively. what's your message to some of those who might think this is too big. talk about that balancing act that you have to do in a state

that's been red for quite some time. >> we will be touting this legislation. as i said from the moment i took office in urging my colleagues in the senate to be ambitious and polled with this legislation, the people are with us. three-quarters of americans, overwhelming bipartisan support for this stimulus bill. you know what else there is support for? infrastructure. we are going to move very swiftly. i will be urging my colleagues to move very swiftly to start working on president biden's infrastructure plan. it's got broad my partisan support. we can create tens of millions of good american jobs. we can get to a carbon-free energy grid, all-electric consumer vehicle fleet. there is huge progress we can make technological and environmentally. we need to move swiftly to passing an infrastructure bill, and do it this summer.

>> senators on off, al sharpton. definitely need to move to infrastructure. but let me bring you back to voting rights. you worked for john louis. and you are committed to continue that. and john louis and the civil rights leader of the generation ahead of me passed that to many of us that see now all over the country states are coming up with different laws, state allows that would, in many ways, suppress particularly black and brown voters. don't you think that the next effort by this administration and democrats in the senate must be to have federal law to protect us against nullification when it comes to our voting rights? this is an axe handle of old. now it's at the ballot box starting with what georgia legislators have tried to do.

. >> yeah. reverend al, this is the new jim crow. and we must pass hr-1, the for the people act, and we must pass hr-4, john r. lewis voting rights advancement act, to end voter suppression and protect the sacred franchise for all americans. just yesterday, reverend al, i addressed, along with president biden and senator warnock, the martin and coretta king breakfast, marking the 56th anniversary, the march across the edmund pettus bridge. john lose gave me my first job. he is looking town and expecting taos carry the torch forward. the struggle for voting rights continues. they are trying to strip the rights away from black americans once again. we will not stand for it. as you heard from senator joe

manchin, we are ready to reform senate rules to get this done. >> katty kay. >> senator, if you have some democrats -- some say i will make it more painful, the filibuster. we haven't heard from kyrsten sinema. does the pressure have to come from the white house, does it have to come from you and your other democratic colleagues and those who are reluctant to overturn the filibuster to get the voting rights act done? what would you do? what's the path forward given you're in such a divided senate? because it's not clear what the path is. >> reporter: well, the senate may be divided but the country and senate democrats and the white house are united. infrastructure and voting rights. these are core american, unifying issues.

look, the people of georgia, the people of the united states are offended by this brazen assault on the right to vote. they're not even pretending here in georgia that this is about anything but pure partisan politics, play tpwrapbtly racist legislation, attacking, for example, souls to the polls on sunday. trying to shut down early day when they go and vote after church on sunday. making it harder for seniors to vote by mail. this is an overt and flagrant attack on the right to vote. democrats, not just democrats. americans are united in our rejection of these jim crow. we will pass legislation, reform senate rules to get it done. we will, by the end of this summer, we must, by the end of summer, make serious progress on

infrastructure and clean energy as well. we can do all of it, and we must do all of it. . >> all right. senator jons on off, congratulations and thanks so much for being on the show. we greatly appreciate it. . >> thank you. >> peter baker, it seems to me we have a collision of sorts coming. this voting rights bill is going to be a must-pass piece of legislation for democrats. joe manchin has backed himself into a corner. well, not really backed himself into a corner. but he has made almost sherman-esque statements about not packing and down and the filibuster. they will have to figure out how to pass this with 50 votes. it is not going to get a single republican. any thoughts, any ideas on what we should be expect to go watch as this drama unfolds on the little? >> well, i think it's exactly right, joe.

if you don't have 60 votes, which is almost always these days, they are tempted to get rid of the filibuster. they feel their agenda is not getting through. and obstructionism is the call of the day when a party wasn't go along. when you're the party that doesn't have the most seats in the senate, suddenly the filibuster looks a lot better. we have seen the back and forth. this is why president biden is a little reluctant on this. he spent 36 years there. he remembers what it is like to be in the minority when having a filibuster was a useful thing against republican ideas. republicans and democrats have progressively gone rid of the filibuster. we started with district courts. last fall when they ran through amy coney barrett, the confirmation, just days before the election, the democrats had

no tool to try to stop that because they didn't have the filibuster. if you get rid of the filibuster as a majority, be prepared to not have it when you're in the minority. that will be a consequence they have to consider. that is why president biden is reluctant. that's why he is saying be careful as you step forward on this. >> kasie hunt, if joe biden doesn't get a single vote on a piece of legislation that is looked upon favorably by 76% of americans and the majority of republicans, what hopes does he have in passing any legislation to pass it forward with 50 votes? . >> joe, the reality is they don't really. certainly not on controversial issues like gun control, gun safety issues, other things that

have been raoeurts for progress if's. even the voting rights act, hr-1 that you have been talking about. that's why this conversation is accelerating the way it is. now, they will have one more big shot to do things on a partisan basis through this reconciliation process that already exists. they signaled they are calling it infrastructure. that could include a lot of climate pieces. it doesn't seem like there will be a stand alone climate bill. they can use the budget process to get a lot of pieces of the green new deal passed and made into law. it is noteworthy joe manchin was willing to say, yeah, i'm willing to have those conversations and go forward in a partisan way. the risk that republicans are taking here is that they are basically betting standing in the way of president biden every turn is going to give ammunition they can use to run against him later on.

they can say there is no cover if things end up being unpopular. i think that is a risky place to be. joe biden is not barack obama. and running and trying to oppose him and his initiatives the same way, i'm not convinced it is going to work politically. that is their bet as they look to take back the house and flip the balance in the senate. . >> tkpep, we have been saying it the past couple of weeks, kasie, joe biden is not barack obama. he's been around washington for 40 years at least. and 2021 is not 2009. just sitting back and saying no to everything is not going to work.

they haven't done anything but say no. they have been the no nothings. >> peter baker, thank you so much, as always, for your reporting. it's always great to have you on the show. we appreciate it. coming up next, amid growing calls to step down, new york governor andrew cuomo is standing firm and refusing to resign. we'll have the latest on that story. plus, we will be joined by two experienced military veterans who have a new cautionary tale about what our future could look like. you're watching "morning joe". we'll be right back. ing "mornin. we'll be right back. not everybody wants the same thing.

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the investigation of these women's allegations, as i said, they're serious. they are being investigated in the very capable hands of the

new york state attorney general. i called for that type of independent investigation, and she is doing it. and i have a lot of faith in her. i believe that she will turn over every stone, and i believe that she will make sure there is no outside interference political or otherwise. look, i have full faith in the attorney general's investigation. >> senator chuck schumer. he was talking yesterday from his office in manhattan. and those comments come as two additional women have come forward accusing andrew cuomo of inappropriate behavior. "the wall street journal" and the "washington post" both published separate claims of women who described a toxic work environment. liss said he once hugged her, kissed her on both cheeks, and grabbed her waist in the photo

as seen here. the senior adviser to the governor said in part, quote, reporters and photographers are covered the governor for 14 years and watched him kiss men and women and pose for pictures. at his last public appearance, he said this is customary for him. carol hinton, who he led housing and urban development in the clinton administration, said he once asked her to his hotel room, embraced her, and pulled her back to him when she pulled away. here is her reaction to that encounter. . >> it was not just a hug. it was an intimate embrace. it was inappropriate. we both were married. we both -- i worked for him.

and it was too much to make it so personal. >> in response, cuomo's director said this did not happen. karen is a known antagonist of the governor who is attempting to take advantage of this moment to score cheap points with made up allegations from 21 years ago. the governor himself addressed the two new allegations in a conference call with reporters yesterday. >> what karen hinton said is not true. did i take a picture with ms. liss? i took a picture with miss liss. but taking a picture is, is commonplace. >> lawmakers are calling on governor cuomo to resign. the senate majority leader in a statement said the allegations are drawing away from the business at government. democratic lawmakers added,

quote, we need to govern without daily distraction for the good of the state. governor cuomo must resign. state senator liz kruger said he needs to step down saying the people's business is too pressing to continue to be derailed this way. but the governor is not giving in to the mounting pressure on those calling for him to step down. >> i was elected by the people of the state. i wasn't elected by politicians. i'm not going to resign because of allegations. the premise of resigning because of allegations is actually anti-democratic. >> cuomo has denied touching anyone inappropriately or harassing women. he said he's sorry for how his behavior has made women feel. let's go to new york tabloid reporter, jonathan lemire. jonathan, it's not a real

surprise given what everybody has whispered about him being a tough guy, broodish to reporters. it is not surprising him saying he is not going to stop down. i think you would have to drag him out of there. >> joe, i think that's an accurate assessment. the governor was clear over the weekend that he will not be resigning, even after the calls for resignation from the two top democratic lawmakers, the head of the state senate called for him to step down. the assemblies, leader of the assembly more or less echoed those comments. and cuomo preempted that by coming out saying, no, he's not going to do so, even despite these allegations. but this is certainly his most

tenuous grip on power that he has had on friday. the state legislator moved to strip him of his emergency powers he assumed last year. the governor said he would sign that into law. we have had the governor now, you know, had to face these questions about his handling of the pandemic related to nursing homes, which has also weakened his hold here. no, the moment the plan is for him not to resign. i have talked to people around the governor. he knows he's in a weakened position right now. he's not looking to step down, though. he's looking to fight. what this does do, even though he's able to hold onto his seat, it hurts his chances for running for re-election. he was going to run for a fourth term. that is in doubt. this was a few days ago, before the most recent two allegations, suggested he should not resign. but the majority said he should

not run again. if he tries to, he would run a difficult race internally from democrats who are opposed to everything that has happened in recent days and weeks. . >> it will be interesting. a week is a lifetime in politics. let alone a year. . >> sure. >> katty kay, it's interesting these stories have come up and the way they have. and they have completely eclipsed, for now at least, the nursing home scandal, which was a scandal that i thought was actually just about as bad as it got. in this case, though, we've seen history that these sort of allegations, while they hurt, don't seem to have a long-term impact. bill clinton left with 60% approval rating. donald trump charged, you know, dozens of times, a couple dozen times maybe of sexual harassment

and got elected and almost re-elected. in this case this talk about his inappropriate behavior, alleged inappropriate behavior in the governor's mansion and hud is ecliping the nursing home scandal where people died because of actions he made during the early days of covid. >> i think over the last year or so, amidst all the focus on racial injustice perhaps me too movement died down a bit. we haven't heard very much about it. this is the first big case we have had since last summer where you have got a politician under allegations, and you have this snowballing of cases. and i know third pushing back on the latest revelation saying

this is someone who bears a grudge. we will see if there are more allegations against cuomo, how possible will it be in the post me too world for him to hang on until the end of his term? and i think the nursing home scandal plays into this. he was already weakened by the nursing home scandal. he's weakened by the fact that there is really nobody out there loudly defending him, partly due to his own behavior, the way he treats people who cross him. it is all sort of coming together. but i think if there are more of these women, i know he will hang on as long as he can. if we have many more allegations, he said, well, i tend to make jokes, which tend there are multiple instances in which he has done this. perhaps it gets harder for him in the moment that we're in. . >> yeah. i agree. >> a pair of military.

retired four-star commander, national book award finalist elliott ackerman. he served five tours as a marine and intelligence officer, the recipient of the silver star, bronze star for valor. 2034, a novel of the next world war." . david ignatius, one of our favorites on this show, david always puts more into fiction than he could actually reveal no non-fiction books. that's why even his fiction books are such important reads. it looks like you all have done the same thing here. offering a stark warning about america's challenges moving forward. . >> joe, thanks for having us on. indeed, the whole idea here is

to really open the aperture and look into the future. 2034 is the year 2034. what elliott and i are concerned about is whether the united states and china could sleep what you can into a war. yeah, this is a cautionary tale. it harkens back to dr. strangelove, bedford incident. novels that helped the public imagine how terrible a war between the u.s. and soviet union could be. we don't want to have a failure of our imagination that allows us to simply continue on a path where these two nations collide. it would be disastrous globally. >> had of course it wasn't too long ago that the united states and china seemed to be managing affairs fairly well. president xi has come forward. he is a far more assertive

leader than many expected and accumulated power in a way no leader in china has. how much of this is a problem with president xi, and how much is it just a problem of two super powers that are going to be butting heads the next 20 years sharing the global stage? . >> i think it is a problem that is endemic in history, joe. you could look back 2,500 years to athens and sparta, the united kingdom and kaiser's germany. you examine the cases in human history, more off than not the two go to war. it's a global war. that's what we desperately need to avoid here. . >> so, elliott, how do the united states and china not

avoid the standoff in 2034 in your book, your novel? >> i think one of the things we wanted to do is create a character-driven stowe. all wars are a matter of miscalculation, at least on the part of one party. both sides believe they are going to win the war. the greatest thing you can do is try to imagine how we can see a crisis like the one that we put down in 2034 evolving. think of where we're sitting right now at the end of a pandemic. that was a failure of the administration. we look pandemic, back to pearl harbor. it is a national security imperative. we need to make sure we can think about these types of crises but also so we can avoid

them. >> katty kay is with us and has a question. katty. >> to what extent does the character of the person sitting in the white house, whether it's in your novel or in reality, make this conflict, brewing conflict, different? >> i think, katty, and you know this well, people, the president is a woman and she's not a skprepb not a democrat. 15 years from now, i think that's something i can imagine. whoever our president is in 15 years will have to meet that moment. by the way, in the novel we see vladimir putin as on octo general aryan. i can imagine that moment as well. it's a very character-driven book. this is not tom clancy,

technothriller technology. it's about people. there's no good guys and bad guys other than the villain of war itself. i would encourage advocacy to read it with an eye toward thinking of how people meet the moment to avoid this kind of conflict. >> so, elliott, not to get ahead of things, if you were to write a sequel even further into the future, what issues would you be grappling with that are further out on the horizon than you have on this one? >> you know, one of the themes in the back, obviously america's place in the world. and if you look at the last 100 years, in an american ventry, it was birthed out of first and second world war. two conflicts the united states did not start but the united states certainly finished.

there's a question to be had there. it's not a good thing to be starting a war, but it sure is an excellent position if you as a nation are finishing the war. really the question at the end of 2034 and the reveal is it's a war between the united states and china. but who actually finishes that war and how are they the beneficiaries of that conflict. >> all right. the new book is "2034," a novel for the next world war. we thank elliott ackerman, colonel james sttavridrs. oprah had her moment. we will have ours. the duke from the crap part of soho. he joins us next. soho he joins us next ♪ ♪

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nbc sports soccer analyst rog bennett. roger, kasie hunt has been the sweater whisper per over the last couple months telling us which lady di sweaters you have been wearing. >> there is only one. does this mean that you're team meghan. >> i'm american now. i actually moved here to get away from all of that craziness. my only queen is tracy chapman. >> so, roger, i want to talk about liverpool before we get to the highlights. really, i just -- you got to -- if you look at what he's done

over the past couple years, he has to be considered the greatest manager in the world, if not the greatest in the top two or three. nobody is serious about him leaving liverpool, are they? >> liverpool is a cruel game. there is no romance. won the title last season. this year their fall from grassing has been cuomo-esque. you just have to make memories while you can. you never know when the darkness is about to descend. i saved a liverpool movement until the end. shall we dive in? >> you told me nothing except that things are dark just before they go completely black. >> let's dive into the big game of the weekend, the manchester

darby. roll tape. manchester united owned against cross town rivals on a seemingly invincible 21 win streak. they are fantastic. united fearless and it took them just 35 seconds to win a penalty kick. portuguese puppet master bruno fernandez. and then the celebration. hand over ears. like miikka when i come on "morning joe." it starts with the goalkeeper, storms down the flat like an enormous wardrobe running away down a steep hill. and then sure wolf blitzer is

about. there it is! they win the battle. the war not so much. that was long lost. manchester city's win streak is over. but they still hold on 11 point lead at the end of the table. roll tide. >> roll tide. let's go to liverpool. >> can we just have a quick view at tottenham hotspur? oh, we're going to liverpool. full cuomo. facing the jacksonville jaguars. allowing levine to swoop in. hulk smash. look at this guy. he tried to make the inflatable blazer a thing. liverpool had their chances. shooter on the volley. repealed by the goalkeeper. >> oh! >> and that will be that tiny pull-up. sixst consecutive loss at home.

now worse than pierce morgan. in sports as in life, one day you can fly, the next you are ic russ. >> let's go to totten nam hotspur. prince charles, you try and stop taking this. no look goal. oh. he could win a nobel prize for physics or poetry. spurs 4. crystal palace 1. every single thing with palace in the title took a beating in england this weekend. >> absolutely. liverpool's troubles show you just how valuable virgil van dike is. liverpool now struggling today. >> one moment in life it feels

like you can fly. the next you realize you're icarus. you're wearing max wings and headed too close to the sun. make great memories while you can. right, joe? >> i know we're americans, but you don't have to explain the icarus thing to us twice in 30 seconds. we'll be tuning in to "the "men in blazers" show. thank you for being here and thank you for wearing your lady di sweaters and of course thank you for all the great work you do for the people residing in the crap part of soho. >> god bless american. god bless meghan. >> god bless them all. more on the story most people are still talking about this morning, prince harry and meghan markle's interview with oprah, including accusations that the

royal family had concerns about their son's skin color. president biden pushes through the historic coronavirus relief package. "morning joe" coming back in a moment. moment

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only once we were married and everything started to really worsen that i came to understand that not only was i not being protected but that they were willing to lie to protect other members of the family but they weren't willing to tell the truth to protect me and my husband. >> please explain how you, prince harry, raised in a palace in a live of privilege, literally a prince, how you were trapped. >> trapped within the system like the rest of my family are. my father and my brother, they are trapped. they didn't get to leave, and i

have huge compassion for that. >> it was clear that you all were watching one thing and one thing only, the nba all star game. it was a bombshell. it was a total bombshell interview with prince harry and his. they accuse the royal family of failing to protect them. they showed concerns about their child's skin tone. plus, joe biden is one step chos closer to signing a historic bill, not just in terms of his presidency but for a nation that's still suffering from the economic fall-out of a public health care crisis. it is actually historic on many levels. the covid relief bill has widespread support from the american public, even if 49

republican senators did not support it. over 75% of americans according to some polls did. they could, however, support tax cuts for the rich which carried a similar price of a couple of years ago and of course did little to nothing for those who needed it the most. good morning. with us we have jonathan lemire, reverend al sharpton and washington anchor from bbc world news america, katy kay. i was going to be talking to you about what i thought the biggest story coming out of great britain was yesterday, of course man city's winning streak being broken and of course liverpool's continued losing. god. but this interview last night. miikka is visiting one of her

daughters. just a normal sunday night. i'm on clubhouse listening to a lecture of macroeconomics and the modern man and miikka is calling me going, are you watching this interview. i'm like, you can't stand anything to do with the royals. i had to force you to even watch "the crown." she was watching the whole thing. apparently everybody else was. this had to be the most shocking interview since princess diana, what was it, back in '97, '96, '97 had her bombshell interview. what was your big takeaway from it. yes, my husband was sad about the man city loss. we are not big royals in our household. i avoid royal stories. we don't report on them that much. i could not take my eyes away. judging from my twitter feed, it

was all glued as well. they were watching in london even though it was 2:30 in the morning, 3:30 in the morning, they were all glued staying up, the journalists, too. it was one bombshell after another. they are dealing now with what is effectively a pr nightmare on their hands. and the most critical comment that was made, i think, the one that is really going to raise questions about the palace and its othes was how meghan talked about how when she was pregnant with baby archie there were conversations in the palace about what color the baby would be when it was born. take a listen. >> in those months when i was pregnant, all around this same time, so we have in tandem the conversation of, you won't be given security. it is not going to be given a

title. and also concerns and conversations about how dark his skin might be when he's born. >> what? >> meghan shared with us there was a conversation with you about archie's skin tone. >> uh-huh. >> what was that conversation? >> that conversation i'm never going to share. but at the time -- at the time i was a bit shocked. >> can you tell us what the question was? >> no. i'm not comfortable with sharing that. but that was -- that was right at the beginning. >> like what will the baby look like? >> it did -- did she suggest it was a member family, whether it

was just a functionary inside buckingham palace. any idea who she says asked that question to you, any idea at all where that may have come from? >> so neither of them would name names. and oprah tried to push them a bit. harry there not naming names. meghan also not naming names. at one point meghan said it was a member of the family asking questions. she said she only heard about that discussion through harry. meghan heard about it through harry. harry was being asked about it from somebody in the palace. we haven't heard from the palace directly from this. but they haven't specifically named names. that will be one of the criticisms named in the u.k.

you can making this incredible allegation of racism and bigotry at the top of the royal household, but you haven't said who it was and it leaves people room they were skeptical about the question. but that was the bombshell moment in the whole interview. but the other one was when meghan was talking about what it was like to be in the royal family and there were echoes of diana and everything she went through when she was married to prince charles and she talked about in very blunt, very unbritish language her own mental health and how desperate she was when she was in that situation. >> look, i was really ashamed to say at the time and ashamed to have to admit to harry especially because i know how much loss he suffered, but i knew that if i didn't say it

that i would do it. and i just didn't -- i just didn't want to be alive anymore. and that was a very clear and real and frightening constant thought. >> my biggest concern was history repeating itself, and i've said that before, you know, on numerous occasions very publically. what i was seeing it was history repeating itself or far more dangerous because then you add race in and you add social media. when i'm talking about history repeating itself, i'm talking about my mother. when you can see something happening in the same kind of way, anybody would ask for help, ask the system of which you are a part of, especially when you know there is a relationship there that they could help and share some truth or call the dogs off, whatever you want to call it.

so to receive no help at all and to be told continuously, this is how it is. this is just how it is. we've all been through it. >> katy, that does sound an awful lot like the challenges princess diana was going through that they never responded to, the palace, let's just circle back for a second. and for americans that haven't been following this closely, obviously this had been a long simmering feud. they have been throwing jabs at each other, the couple and buckingham palace, over the past year or so and got ugly a week or two ago. hr complaints lodged against meghan because she was, for whatever reason, i'm not going to even get into it, and now they come out with this charge.

again, not defending the palace. i'm not defending them. i understand completely with everything harry has been through why he's doing what he's doing and it is very admirable. but these are just charges and what we have that basically stopped the world last night was meghan saying harry told him that somebody said something to him that is check mate, that is check mate, that somebody asked a racist question about a future baby to be. and kind of think somebody needs to come forward with a name here if they're going to say this before everybody in the world, everybody in the press, everybody in britain immediately goes down, you know, that -- that trail. >> yeah. i mean, it is really interesting watching the different reaction this couple will get here in the u.s. compared to the u.k.

last night watching it here in the u.s., almost uniform sympathy for the couple, outrage against the allegations. a huge amount of support for them, praise that meghan was being brave, talking about her mental health issues and how desperate it must have been and how she has been treated very badly by the british tabloids. lots of people posting the comparison tabloids between meghan and kate. much more favorable with kate. of course it raises the issue of this is the first non-white, mixed race person to enter the family. how did the royal family deal with that given that it's an old conservative family?

how is it going to deal with that? you're right. there is so far only the words of meghan and harry. i have a quick name at the u.k. tabloid press, particularly the press that is pro-monarchy in the u.k. the things being said in the u.k. are completely different there. people saying the interview was cringy and self-indulgent. the palace will have to respond in some form. all they have is this investigation of whether meghan was a bully and several staff members left because of her behavior. it will be fascinating to see if the palace responds with some kind of tit for tat retaliation or whether they decide it is better not to just say anything,

which is possible. they don't like to talk in public. but they will want to push back against these allegations of racism. without a name, i'm not sure how we do it. the one person actually was named by harry. that was a shock, too. when harry said he was in canada over the christmas holidays. they were having these discussions about whether he was going to step back. he said, i called my grandmother three times and i called my father a couple of times before he stopped taking my calls. and that small phrase from harry, i think, is -- that is really opening bare the rift between harry and his father. >> now that we've gotten that one out of our system, let's dive into joe biden's victory on covid relief means for this nation and his presidency. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. want to make a name for yourself in gaming? then make a name for yourself.

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president biden's sweeping $1.9 trillion coronavirus relief bill is heading back to the house after the senate passed it on saturday along party line votes 50-49. with every voting no. millions of eligible americans, jobless benefits through the summer, $350 billion for state and local aid and $14 billion for vaccine distribution. president biden spoke on saturday after the senate passed the bill. >> i want to thank all of the senators who worked so hard to reach a compromise to do the right thing for the american people during this crisis and voted to pass the american rescue plan. it obviously wasn't easy, wasn't

always pretty, but it was so desperately needed, urgently needed. when i was elected, i said we were going to get the government out of the business of battling on twitter and get to the business of delivering for the american people, giving everyone a chance, a fighting chance of showing the american people the government can work for them. by passing the american rescue plan will do that. >> a historic bill by any measure. it is -- and most americans, 75% of americans like this bill. this is a historic bill that is actually sort of sneakily earth shattering. we have been talking about this and debating about this,

debating about benefits. but it shifts money to the truly disadvantaged and the working class americans in a way that, my gosh, no bill has in decades. >> no one can really look at this and not say this is a monumental bill that has so many far-reaching ramifications for the disadvantaged, for those that have been marginalized more than anything you have seen, as you say, in decades. you cannot underestimate or downplay this bill. and the fact that it got through without one republican vote, the fact that it has this kind of far-reaching impact notwithstanding you have to give joe biden a kamala harris administration credit. they have really moved the dial with this bill and really changed the trajectory of where

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this nation has suffered too much for much too long. and everything in this package is designed to relieve the suffering and to make the most urgent needs of the nation and put us in a better position. >> so jonathan lemire, what is the white house's reaction to this seismic political victory? i would guess they have to be awfully pleased at how it went. >> of course they wanted some sort of bipartisan support, but they point to the polls that show that even if republican lawmakers aren't backing this

bill, republican voters are, as well as some republican mayors and other elected officials elsewhere in the country. i think if you stop at the top line, joe biden proposed a $1.9 trillion relief package and that's what's happening. sure, there was adjustments along the way, but this is a seismic victory to be go in and be able to achieve what was promised indeed in part because of those two georgia run-off seats. they're embracing the bigness of this bill, including the idea that it strictly attacks major societal issues like poverty. they're coming after it unlike the obama rescue package in ' 09. >> and how are they dealing with their own party? i know there were actually progressives that were complaining that this didn't do enough. there was some fighting going back and forth, attacks against

joe manchin and kristin cinema. how do they feel those back and forths are going? almost every progressive as to understand this is the most historic piece of legislation to help working class and middle class americans that this country has put forward in decades. >> well, there was certainly some sarcastic behind the scenes about senator majority leader about joe manchin considering his influence on the process right now. those in the west wing weren't always delighted about that. but they recognized that deals had to get made. in terms of attacks frts left, they are grateful for the support of bernie sanders. yes, there are some on the very left portions of the party in the house who had some complaints, who might make a

little bit of noise this week, but they feel bernie sanders is onboard with this, touting how historic it was and how necessary it was that progressive fall in line, too, that this party has been able to despite this opposing tension stay together for this bill. >> another poll came out this past weekend that shows just how popular this bill was and how popular joe biden is. 68% of americans approve the way joe biden is handing the response to the coronavirus. only 1 in 3 disapprove. so will we keep seeing these numbers, keep looking at this extraordinarily popular bill. i'm a little surprised. it was like a party line vote against one of the most, as we have said already, seismic pieces of legislation, one of

the most popular pieces of legislation that's moved through congress in years. other than reading dr. seuss books, what is the strategy for the grand old party? >> you know, the strategy is to say it's too big. i do think as we approach a mid-term election, the president's party will lose, if history, 27 seats. if the country has gotten over this massive virus and people feel good about the response, that's on joe biden. that helps joe biden and the democrats. and the republicans can lay claim to take credit for none of that. so and especially they have voted for most of the component parts of this bill. there is nothing in this legislation, if you break it down as steve did before, there is nothing in this legislation

that they have opposed whole cloth. they had supported all of the parts in the past, which makes me surprised that lisa murkowski didn't go along or some of the other republicans went along. mitch mcconnell was very firm that his entire party was going to be against it. kevin mccarthy is insisting or is suggesting similar loyalty. you know, i think that's why the conventional wisdom about the mid-term elections that republicans are definitely going to take back the house is not -- it's not quite cooked yet, right? >> no. >> again, if these two things are happening, we're getting rid of this virus that has paralyzed the globe and we are -- and the people feel like the government has done a good job in supporting them in their time of need, that's something that early in this point democrats can lay a claim to.

>> cases are up and cases are down, but there is still a long way to go. dr. shah joins the conversation next on "morning joe." ♪ ♪ be right back. with moderate to severe crohn's disease,

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i think that's ridiculous, you know. i don't like the mask either. in this situation, we need to be a little more cautious. nobody likes a mask, but if we could be a little more prudent for 35 days or 45 days or whatever it took for us to get on rock solid ground, that's the approach virginia is going to take. >> historically, if you look back at the different surges

we've had, when they come down and start to plateau at a very high level, plateauing at a level of 60,000 to 70,000 new cases we are day is not an acceptable level. that is really very high. if you look at what happened in europe a couple weeks ago, they're ahead of us in these patterns. they were coming down, too. then they plateaued. over the last week or so, they had a 9% increase in cases. >> so over the weekend, the nation averaged about 60,000 new covid cases a day. that's the lowest seven-day average since october. but dr. anthony fauci still warning us. tim justice is criticizing the republican governors who lifted the mask mandates in their states and, yeah, everybody hates masks. it's a pain to wear masks. but if you are out in restaurants. if you are inside closed spaces.

my gosh, it is just the prudent thing to do. as the governor said, we are not that far away from being able to reopen things and have the majority of americans with vaccines. so let's be -- as he said, let's be prudent a little longer. we have dr. a with us. let's talk about the time frame. but it seems to me the governor's words seem to have more of an impact now because he's not saying wear a mask when you go out for the next year and a half. we're actually talking about a couple more months before we start to see some pretty dramatic changes in this country moving forward. >> yeah. good morning, joe. thanks for having me on.

i loved that statement. it was exactly right. 30 to 45 days, not much longer. let's talk about that time frame. that's the time frame by which most high risk americans who want to get vaccinated will have the chance. and that means that we can start peeling back some of these restrictions and safely, right? now, the truth is you may still have to be wearing mask under certain situations. imagine going to a packed indoor concert. that may still be risky for a while. but a lot of the basic stuff out and about, i think we could start peeling those back as high risk people get vaccinated. we're not that far away. this is like four, six weeks, at least eight. >> yeah. >> good to talk to you.

again, there was news on the speed of the roll-out and the production of distribution of vaccinations. the one thing that could derail that optimistic time frame are these new variants. are any of them particularly worrying to you? do you think we should be watching them more closely than perhaps we are? >> yeah. so the variant that concerns me the most, at least in the short run, is the 1-17. that's the one originally from the u.k. probably represents 20% of all right now in the united states and by this month will be the dominant strain. what we saw in other countries that experienced this is a big spike in cases when it became dominant. i am hopeful that this will be -- we will do better than that because we have a lot of people who have been previously infected. we're doing reasonably well with vaccinations.

vaccines work very well against this variant. i think we will take the worst of it. i think we're winning. it's close. but texas is really coming down on the side of the virus and i'd rather stay on the side of the vaccines. >> he says here jonathan has a question. >> good to see you this morning. obviously hopeful news with the vaccine distribution. also the weather warming up across most of the country. a lot of people get outside, which will be helpful, too, to help combat the spread of the virus. one this looms as a test for the nation and the biden administration is the fall in terms of schools and the start of full reopening. can school districts across the country go back to in person learning. what is your assessment of that? do you think right now that's a

realistic expectation? should parents be prepared to send their children back five days a week in the fall? >> absolutely. the science on this is crystal clear. i think we can get kids back safely full-time five days a week by the fall. i think we can do it sooner than that. we can do it later in the spring and i think we can do it in a way that keeps teachers safe. it includes vaccinating and making changes to schools, including ventilation. questions like are we going to ask kids to wear masks, we have to make those determinations as we get closer. i think older kids will be able to get vaccinated. there is just not enough data. here is the problem. we do not make much progress until the end and then we go, we don't have enough time. if we will improve ventilation, now is a good time to be working

on it, not wait until august. we have plenty of time we can do this. >> obviously there is some cities like san francisco that continue to disappoint parents with what they're talking about doing not only later this spring but also later into the fall. it is very frustrating and it's been very frustrating for the past month. you hear the same people who were criticizing donald trump. i was one of them. for not following science. and now you have some of those same people when it has to do with opening schools not following science for political reasons. it's just maddening and there is a hell of a lot of science showing that the mental impact, the psychological impact for these children, the social impact for these children not being in school is a greater detriment to their health and their total wellness than any risk that covid now poses to

them. we have hard science for over a year now that we can look at. i mean, talk about that and how anti-science some of these school districts are for dragging their feet on getting children back to school. >> yeah. you're actually right. we've got very good signs here that says we can keep schools safe. we can open them up in a way that keeps kids safe, that keeps teachers and staff safe. and all of that exists even before we had vaccines. now with vaccinations, one of the things i have become a big advocate for is we should be prioritizing teachers and vaccinating them because some of them are at risk. we should make sure teachers are vaccinated. once teachers are vaccinated, we have reasonably ventilated schools. and right now get -- make sure kids are wearing masks, teachers

are wearing masks. in the fall we can decide what we want to do in terms of mask wearing. but if we don't go back to full-time this fall, there is no reason to believe based on the data that we will go back to full-time in the fall of 2022 or fall 2023. this virus is not going away. we are going to have to learn to live with it. we're not sure about fall of 2022. but when will we go back? are we going to be permanently hybrid forever? >> that is not acceptable. it is not acceptable them dragging their feet as much as they are. there is a race for mayor in new york city. i'm hoping that most of the candidates for mayor have a very simple message: open the damn schools. if they want to follow the science, that's what their message will be in their campaign. open the damn schools. doctor, stay with us for our next conversation.

we will be having a look at a story that allows us to cure diseases and fend off virus. it is the latest biography from walter isaacson. he joins us next with the remarkable progress being made in that field. (customer) movie night. (burke) should have been watching the stove instead. (customer) tell me something i don't know. (burke) with your farmers policy perk, guaranteed replacement cost, your home can be rebuilt, regardless of your limits.

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♪♪ ♪♪ maybe it's just the tinitis kicking up in me, but whoo. okay. that's one way to teach science. that was a music parody from tim blaze, a masters degree holder

in high energy theoretical physics who explaining scientific topics on his youtube channel a cappella science. that was one of the the coronav. let's bring in right now professor of history at tulane university walter isaacson. his latest biography is on one of the scientists who discovered crisper, it's titled the code breaker. jennifer dowden, gene editing and the future of the human race. so walter, break this down for me and for the audience. i'm a liberal arts guy. i had to get four credit hours, got it, before core curriculum. so as denzel washington said in the movie "philadelphia" explain

it to me like i'm a fifth grader. because in this area i am like a fifth grader. >> this is a wonderful technology developed over the past few years by jennifer dowden of the hero of my book, and her research partner and many others that allows us to go in and edit our genes. and just a simple scissors that's connected to a guide. the guide is a snippet of rna, that same wonderful molecule that's helping get us all vaccinated. that molecule acts as a guide, so that gene for cystic -- whatever, replace it, change the genes in our system. not only can we fix genetic diseases, but the long range thing is perhaps editing our children to have certain traits that we want. this is a huge boon to the health and, you know, the human

race but it's also going to present us some challenges to figure out, hey, when do we use it to edit our kids? >> and do you talk about that as far as the ethical challenges? a lot of parents say, wait, we can edit our kids? >> it kind of sounds good to me. >> that's just a joke. for parents. obviously, there's some real ethical problems, real ethical challenges here. how do you address that in the book? >> well, jennifer dowden, who helped invent this technology, and she just won the nobel prize for it, one day she had a nightmare, soon after she invented this gene editing technology and the tools to use it. and she walks into a room and somebody says i want to learn about this technology and the person walks up and it's hitler. she decides she's going to gather scientists and policymakers from around the world to say, what are we going

to do with it? this past year we used it, victoria gray, a wonderful woman down in mississippi, got cured of sickle cell anemia by editing the gene. but the year before in china a rogue doctor used it to -- going down through all the human race. now at first everybody's shocked. on the other hand, the edit he made made them less susceptible to getting a virus. now, if you could do that safely, we have to ask ourselves, all right, down the road do we want to edit our species to be less su settable to viruses. there's no easy answer put in the book walk hand in hand, step by step because slopes are less slippery that way and hopefully with the reader too we walk together and say, all right,

would you use it against huntington's or to fight blindness? would you use it to make kids taller? that's where we have to do the step by step moral analysis. >> dr. jha is with us and has a question for you. go ahead. >> so thank you by the way. fabulous book. i had a chance to read it. >> thank you, dr. jha. >> i would love to hear a bit more about how this technology has been used in this pandemic. i have some thoughts on this watching it but i think it has been up with of the real revolutions of this pandemic. so professor isaacson, if you'd talk more about that, it would be helpful. >> there are many ways it's been used. first of all, jennifer, when she was in sixth grade, she becomes fascinated by james watson's double healing and she wants to

become a scientist. her high school counselor says girls don't become scientists but she persists. she does with rna what they had done for dna and she helps get the structure of self-replicating rnas. it turns out rna is a much cooler molecule and does real work compared to dna which sits in our cells and curates information. the notion of rna in general as you know has helped create these messenger rna vaccines. secondly jennifer doudna gathered a who you will group of sign i was thes a year ago when coronavirus was striking and said we're going to form ten teams, create one team to do direct detection technology, home testing kits that just use crisper to immediately detect the presence of the virus. they've also started working on things like eventually will be

able to do what bacteria do. crisper is something bacteria have been doing a lot of years and they've been using it to cut viruses that attack them. eventually we'll be able to say let's not worry about vaccines, let's kill the virus directly. there are many ways this technology will help make the human race healthier. >> jonathan lemire is with us, and has a question. jonathan? >> walter it's a fascinating book and topic. talk about cancer. for so many americans that's the scariest word in the english language and could this technique be used to battle that, is this something that can be done to eliminate, or at least perhaps reduce the risk of someone developing cancer? >> absolutely, absolutely. it's been done in china already, and even at the university of pennsylvania, their clinical trials with it.

because what crisper can do is detect any genetic sequence. so suppose you sequence a tumor that you have and that tumor may be spreading. it can be used with immunetherapy and other ways to say, all right, that becomes very personalized. you can have a personalized bit of medicine that says we're going to find ways to attack this very genetic -- this very specific genetic sequence that we've figured out is your tumor. so this is going to bring us into the era of personalized medicine and with immunotherapies, that's the holy grail. >> walter, katty kay has a question. >> so walter, who gets to play judge? i mean, clearly using crisper to protect us against virus is a great idea. using crisper as the chinese doctor did to gene edit a baby, not a good idea and even the chinese put him in prison for

three years, thinking that had gone a step too far. but as this progresses and becomes more widespread there will have to be a regulatory body saying this is okay and this is not okay and who's going to play that role? >> well, each country is going to set its guidelines but there are, an international group that jennifer doudna, the hero of my book, and other people, including eric lander, now the chief science adviser to the president, and fong jang the wonderful scientist at m.i.t., the rival and competitor in creating this technology. they are all working with the royal academy in britain and the chinese academy of science in order to say let's find some guidelines. but, you know, it's not just -- there was james watson, the guy who did the dna structure at one point said if scientists don't play god, who will? well, my book, working with

jennifer doudna and watching her organize people is like, no, no, no, we're not going to delegate this just to the scientists. this means we have to figure it out, by we, i mean like you, katty and me, the rest of the people listening, it's useful to understand this technology, to see how jennifer doudna in her life work got to it so it won't be like our digital technologies like facebook or something where it's so mysterious the algorithms we don't know how to deal with it. so i'm hoping, hand in hand, step by step, all of us can be involved in saying let's use it for this reason, but let's have some regulations, let's have the fda and other national agencies say we aren't going to use it for some other reasons. >> all right. we're just getting started with walter's new book, he's going to have his residency here with us each morning for the week for yet another "morning joe" book

residency, and dr. ashish jha, it's great talking to you as well. that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. have a great day. hi there, i'm stephanie ruhle live at msnbc headquarters in new york city. this is monday, march 8th, today is international women's day and we have got a lot of news to cover. i want to start this morning with a story everybody's talking about on both sides of the atlantic. prince harry and meghan markle revealing explosive details about their tortured relationship with the royal family in an interview with oprah winfrey among the headlines that family members told harry they had concerns about their baby's skin color and that meghan was so depressed she actually considered taking her own life. watch this. >> i just didn't want to be alive anymore.