hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in new york. the economic boon expected upon passage of president biden's economic stimulus coupled with his laser focus on vaccinating the public is the stuff that that former guy longed for, but never actually delivered. it turns out the path to economic recovery and growth does indeed wind its way through ending the pandemic, something president biden's covid relief package promises to work toward with money for vaccinations and money to return kids to school safely. "new york times" wrote the u.s. economy will accelerate twice as fast as expected as the passage

of the $1.9 trillion stimulus plan ignites a powerful recovery from the pandemic and helps lift global growth. the organization for economic cooperation and development said the economic recovery coming alongside the country's emotional recovery, images of vaccinated grandparents reunited with their families flood the news and social media. those reunions likely to surge permitting vaccinated americans to gather. hospitals declaring the worst of the third wave of covid in america is over. the numbers back that up. hospitalizations are down nearly 70% from january and the reduction in cases is ushering in the closest thing to a national effort to return kids to the classroom after a year of uneven remote learning. "the new york times" reporting

on children across the country heading back to school. from nathan, i was a little scared because i didn't want to get the virus. i feel better because of the safety precautions. we have tissues and hand sanitizer everywhere. from aaron, i don't want to be remote anymore, but i'm going to have to on some days and i'm really scared of school closing. this is the new normal. it will take years to really grasp what those fears of catching covid and having schools closed down have done to our kids. the hope coursing through the markets and hospital workers is not an accident. it's not some miracle that the former president promised. it's the result of leadership. the modelling of safer behavior like mask wearing. the supply of vaccines and distribution of them.

the economic stimulus for families hurting. there will be setbacks for any white house, but for now this one is off to a solid start. the biden recovery is where we start today. former rnc chairman michael steele is back. also ashley parker is here. and branding expert donny deutch is here. i'm going to start with you, donny deutch. there's something in this coverage. it's not the sensational kind of political journalism that ashley perfected and elevated to an art form during the last administration. it is this sort of meat and potatoes result of governing and of moving the public to where you want to lead them. these numbers around the covid relief package, 70% of the public approves of the

president's response to covid. you can't tweet your way to these numbers. these are the result of the discipline the white house has exhibited in the first couple months. >> the contrast of the presidency of do, versus the presidency of don't. do convince people to -- make sure the vaccines are available. do convince people to wear a mask. do get the relief package passed. do move forward. do versus don't. in everything the republicans have stood for whether voter suppression, or cancel culture, antifa, which doesn't exist, they're in the negative space. what biden is doing, what the democrats are doing, is doing. it seems so simple in hindsight. it seems simple that they made

the right human decision which is vaccinating people is also the right economic decision which is also the right political decision. when we reference the former guy, it's so simple in hindsight, but it's about doing versus don't doing. it's that simple. >> i understand why that was complicated michael steele for the former guy. i don't understand why the entire republican party insists on following the guy who lost big time over the cliff. george w. bush's first year was marked by bipartisan accomplishments on education, tax cuts. i don't think we were anywhere in the stratosphere of 76% public approval. the covid-19 relief package is a package of reforms and stimulus and money for vaccines and money for ventilation in schools that 76% of the people want and zero,

no republicans. >> yeah, i think when you're looking back at prior administrations who had to go head long into a crisis, whether it was bush coming on the heels of 9/11 or having to deal at the end of his term with the economic slowdown. then, of course, you've got what obama had to deal with. the dynamics are different. i think donny puts his finger on the moving point on this. we've been in a space for five years where the head of government, the president, the members of his party told us that -- what we could not do in the sense that they played off the challenges and the desperation of a lot of people by essentially lying to them and people were kind of putting that up against their own personal realities as they watched family members succumb to the virus.

now you have a president saying to them, look, not only do i understand the walk you've just gone through, but i'm going to help walk with you the rest of the way. in that moment, it is a demonstration of the kind of leadership that's been absent. for republicans where do they go, nicolle? you have two choices here. you basically reject the last five years, four years, and say my bad, we were wrong or you double down on it which is what they've decided to do because that reality is so stark and so demanding on them that they just don't want to face it, but they will, and they will next year as they go to the american people and say put us back in charge after, you know, the success of joe biden. that's going to be a hard argument to make. >> i think, michael steele, what the biden administration has

deprived them of is an economic argument. what the market is responding to is the promise that we'll be healed from the pandemic. i know that republicans are making this bet that the stimulus will become less popular. i think the opposite is true. i think when moms and dads are in the position to safely drop their kid back at school and they go back vaccinated to a workplace or if you have to travel, you feel safe, i think when people's lives return to something that approximates a pre pandemic normal, the stimulus package, it will be clear that's why it happened. >> absolutely. the thing about stimulus is not just the economic piece. everybody thinks $1.9 trillion.

true, a lot of money. i was talking to a buddy of mine living in california and yesterday was the first day his kid got back to school. he was, like, oh, my god i'm so excited. it was this whole other level of energy. one, because the stimulus for him was, yeah, we can begin to make some of these steps back to normal. the kid gets to go back to school where he wants to be with his friends. i get a day at home where i can focus on other things as opposed to trying to be a teacher for my kid. a lot of these pieces aren't just about the economics. again, back to donny's point, the doing actually has action behind it and that -- it's not just enough to do, but it's what you see on the other side of the doing that i think is going to really stimulate the stimulus in a way that, again, the economic piece is one big part of it. then how people feel about how where they are a year from now

will be all the rage and will be a big driver potentially if the democrats don't screw it up going into next fall. >> ashley parker, you and i are momming through the pandemic with all of the complications that entails. there is a thing out there that i don't know that politicians in washington grasp. that is that, of course, the pandemic has disproportionately hurt in a health sense and economic sense communities of color and people that don't have the privilege -- it is an extreme privilege to get to work from home. it's also a universal challenge. there is something unspoken that may not show up in the polls. i think what this stimulus has been branded as is the gateway to normal. the biden white house has to be heartened by what they're seeing in the polls around this

package. >> that's the bet they're making. when you talk about schools, that goes hand in hand with this and the economic side. i want to pick up what was said, it's one thing that former president trump didn't understand. he desperately wanted the economy back and working, but you couldn't do that without the public health piece because the two are bound. even when donald trump would declare i want all schools opened, it failed to take into account that as much as parents want their kids back in school because it's hard to work from home when you're trying to pretend to be a 4th grade teacher and it is hard for these kids who are missing the chance to be captain of the basketball team, the school play, the emotional devastation of high school students cannot be overstated. even if the schools opened up, until parents and families felt comfortable that their kids

would be safe in schools and would not bring back risk to the family, they were not -- the schools could be open and ready for business and parents in hard-hit minority communities that have born the brunt of the pandemic were not going to send their children back. you need all these pieces to hit on the same level. you need the vaccines. you need people to feel comfortable. you need the businesses not just open, but people feeling like they could go and do indoor dining because they have been vaccinated and the government has a plan for this to be safe. that's the thing the biden administration understands. that's what they're trying to do in a way that president trump never could bring himself to. >> donny, the former guy is history, but his legacy is seen in these images of mask burnings in idaho. the distrust he was able to sew

around the very things that would have helped him achieve his aims. he wanted the economy back, but he never could be made to understand that no one would choose, if they were lucky enough to get to have it be a choice, to put themselves or other people in their household or their kids in danger. it seems that the lesson in the losing in the most secure election of our country's history and one of the largest margins hasn't been learned by anyone who has to stand before voters again. what do you make of the fact that a lot of his accolades in congress are carrying on and repeating his mistakes? >> i said this before. they have to go through another losing cycle. they'll have to get their butts kicked one more time to realize trump is a losing proposition. not only do they stand for nothing, but with their entire

demeanor they cannot win the suburban women. they cannot win the voters that are in play that you need to win. if you said to somebody right now what do the republicans stand for, you can't even attach them to an issue. it's just what we won't do. we won't pass minimum way. we'll get in the way of an infrastructure bill. they'll have to go through one more losing cycle that will go against the norm. they're not going to learn until they get spanked again. to your point, nicolle, they're acting no differently. we see the five senators leaving and the party is being handed over to the hawleys and the trumpers. they're going to suffer the same fate.

>> it's not just, donny, i think roy blunt, senator toomey, senator burr have realized what a losing proposition it is to govern under the banners of republicans. they've taken this soft line against accountability for the insurrection. they're against the stimulus package with a 76% approval rating. they're making pilgrimages to this guy who wants donations to go to him. if you're dumb enough to send money, i'll give it to you. saveamericadonaldtrump.com. where does this lead? >> it's always about the money. >> let's not call it money. let's call it the legal defense fund. i can't wait until ashley breaks

the story that they've renamed it to the trump legal defense fund. >> you're talking donald trump here. it's always about the money. principles, governing, those noble ideas, crap. how much are you going to pay me? just send your money direct to me, and they will. they will. that's why you see members of the party leaving in the senate. there is no governing here. there is no governing ideal. we wasted eight years fighting obama on obamacare just to come up with a great slogan -- repeal and replace, but squat for policy. that's an example of what the republican party is about right now to the question what do they stand for. we stand for you sending us a check.

that's what we stand for. by the way, make it out to donald trump inc. how do you go into 2022? i disagree with my buddy donny. 2022 is just the beginning of the hit. it doesn't end in 2022. you don't correct that ship. we didn't get the house and senate back, now we'll stand straight going into 2024 with donald trump dictating who the nominee is going to be. this river is going to run dryer than the nile in the worst drought ever. the realities are stark. i think the members of the senate leaving are an example of how stark that reality is. you don't walk away when you see an opportunity to win. you lean into it that, not move away from it. >> ashley, i'm going to say at least a few of these folks resigning, maybe portman and

toomey chief among them, have a more natural ability to govern with someone like president biden than they do with ted cruz or josh hawley. i wonder if you have any insights into how the white house feels about retirements of people who they may not agree with, but president biden is known to relish the opportunity to at least talk policy with members of the other party. any reaction from them on these resignations? >> just more generally i think the thing you're seeing with the covid relief bill is what the white house has described as a test case for how they get legislation done. it seems like with any other big package going forward, they're always going to proceed on that track that is consider to president biden's dna which is bipartisanship, legislating, respect for the senate and

procedure. someone to take equipped to me that biden's entire life has been one giant mark-up committee. when you lose -- little congressional humor. when you lose someone like a senator portman, it makes that aspect of what biden is trying to do more difficult. the flip side is even with all these people you named, they're on track to pass this bill with no republican support. that is also their north star going forward. in this case the belief is that when people get their checks and people get their shots, they're not going to remember which republicans did or did not vote for it. again, you're going to see both. to the extent that moderate republicans are leaving, it does make it more difficult for biden to do that thing that he loves to do. >> everyone is sticking around. i appreciate the congressional humor. when we come back, as the vaccine rollout accelerates

there's still some groups left behind. what the biden administration is doing to right that wrong. and, well the former guy escaped responsibility over the insurrection from his fellow republicans. one of the impeachment managers is talking to us. another challenge growing for president biden. restoring america's compassion and humanity at the u.s./mexican border. jacob soboroff is joining us. we'll be back after a quick break. don't go anywhere. k after a qui break. don't go anywhere. not what's easy. so when a hailstorm hit, usaa reached out before he could even inspect the damage. that's how you do it right. usaa insurance is made just the way martin's family needs it with hassle-free claims, he got paid before his neighbor even got started.

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we know that communities of color have born the brunt of the coronavirus pandemic in the united states from an economic standpoint and when it comes to the cases and the deaths. why is the "new york times" reporting that communities of color have received a smaller number of vaccines? the vaccination rate for black americans is half of white people and the gap for hispanic americans is enlarger. a worrying statistic that president biden's administration says has to change to address the widening inequity that has fallen out for many. last night vice president kamala harris announcing a $250 million push to promote covid vaccinations in under served communities. >> we need to acknowledge the

pandemic has made worse the fissures and flaws and failures that already existed in our systems and in our structures. we've seen that race and place matter a lot in how well protected a person is from the virus or not. and race and place have played a role in access to services. our administration will offer $250 million in grants for localities to partner with community organizations on health literacy. our goal is to provide under served communities with the information they need to stay safe and to get vaccinated. >> joining our conversation dr. blackstock, she is the ceo of advancing health equity and a medical contributor to yahoo news. doctor, just pick up where the vice president leaves off here. i mean i thought we learned this

lesson when the pandemic made clear that it wasn't an equal opportunity killer, when remote school made clear it revealed all the fissures the vice president talked about. now we seem to be repeating those mistakes with the vaccine. >> it feels like deja vu, like we have not learned our lesson. i think what these gaps show is that any effort to close the gap requires intentionality. i think what i heard from the covid-19 white house task force is promising, but we need them to be more aggressive. targeting the most vulnerable communities is important. there needs to be accountability as well as follow up. we need to see a change in those numbers and a closing of the gap as soon as possible.

>> doctor, what does it look like? can you be granular with us? is it offering at-home vaccinations? what are the practical solutions? >> it's bringing the vaccine to the people. that definitely partnering with community-based organizations is important. those are trust ed messengers who have the relationships with community members. going door to door. it also means any registration process isn't -- it means have vaccine distribution sites based in the community and that transportation and travel is not a barrier to getting there. it means grassroots efforts. i think that what vice president harris mentioned in terms of partnering with community groups will make a tremendous difference. we just need to hold states

accountable. >> ashley, just to listen to the policy specificity and think there's a receiving -- someone interested in receiving this kind of policy advice is a whole new dynamic in terms of the pandemic. i mean, to talk about states -- the treatment from the first year of the pandemic was to alternately abuse the states, force the states to go online and hunt for ventilators. it's a different policy undertaking. i wonder what your reporting shows in how they're getting the states and all the partners up to the task that now falls to them. >> well, one thing in talking about equity specifically is the biden administration came in and has basically an equity office to help with all of this. as the doctor said, intentionality is incredibly important. one way to do that is recognize

in these four major crises the biden team laid out -- coronavirus, the economy, racial inequity and climate change, there's an equity component in all of them. approaching it with that lens is of course one of the first steps. now, this is not specific to equity, but another thing you're seeing happen is the white house trying to use more of its federal authority in helping the states. that was the big news out of schools last week, that there were some states prioritizing teachers, but not all states. you had the biden administration saying, look, if we want to get teachers back in schools which helps all children, but again particularly children who are at even more risk of falling behind, one of the key things is vaccinating teachers. that's both for health to make teachers more comfortable and so they basically said to states if

you want to be part of the federal vaccine program which states do, because that's a program where the federal program distributes vaccines to the states you need to prioritize some portion of your supply to teachers. that's one example of the ways you see the federal government and the state and local governments working in concert with one another. >> you know, michael steele, listening to ashley and looking at the images, both the vaccinations and of reunions, it's clear this is a logistical undertaking the likes of which this country hasn't taken on in this era of division and extreme polarization and disinformation. i wonder if you can speak to the third, the impediment of broken politics and the abundance of misinformation? >> imagine what the good doctor and what others would be saying

at this moment and where our posture would be as a nation had the former guy taken seriously not just the impact of covid-19, but how we move out of covid-19 into a better space, meaning getting the vaccination in the right amounts into the communities, educating and bringing the american people along in the process of this with honest, clarifying information, not fear mongering and lies, not playing the political piece. so we now find ourselves playing a bit of catch up where we have to tell people stuff about this that we should have told them a year ago so that they understood exactly what was coming and why it was coming, the way it's being laid out and what it may mean and the impact on them. if we included communities of colors on the front end of the discussion as opposed to the back end, recognizing that not

just in this moment, but historically, these communities have been left behind, whether it was dealing with the aides crisis, whether it was dealing with the flu crisis, whatever it happens to be, these communities have historically been put at the second or third tier. if you elevated that conversation earlier, knowing this was a global pandemic, that meant it would touch everybody the same way, i think we would be having a very different conversation. this is a lesson for us to how do we move forward. biden is trying to do that right now. >> he's trying to do that, but you can't divorce what's happening in our country, donny. we're having a crisis of the way we talk about and deal with race. it was laid bare. people took to the streets last summer after the murder of george floyd. we have a domestic terror threat that everyone of us is living under because of radicalized

white supremacists. to think there's an unequal distribution of health care and equality, it tracks with the other dark forces in american politics. >> yes, but we're only 60 days into this new administration. >> that's fair. >> certainly as we see -- this is a perfect example of an administration committed to fair play. there's just simple fairness in what we're talking about that was not in play in the last administration. i want to add on something. if we think back to a year prior where biden was portrayed as sleepy joe. this administration has been nothing close to sleepy. there was an impression that this president would be a very sleepy, old guy. you could not have a more vital administration. nicolle, you've been in administrations. i can't think of a more

administration that has been more vital and this latest policy is the perfect example. i think we'll see a lot of fairness through this administration. >> they were deprived of a rational transition, as biden described. dr. blackstone, i want to give you the last word. >> we need to think about short-term solutions and long-term solutions should another pandemic occur. we cannot have communities of color being the heaviest hit again. >> dr. blackstock, ashley parker, michael steele and donny deutch, thank you for joining us. up next, our next guest has plans to hold republicans accountable next november. ans accountable next november. [szasz] we take care of ourselves constantly;

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what message will we send the rest of the world? >> you better believe we got one. >> what happened today in washington, d.c. -- >> america has stood for important things. >> what we've seen in the united states is disturbing. >> president trump. >> we didn't need more witnesses. we needed more senators with spines. >> yeah!

>> president trump declared his conduct totally appropriate. so he gets back into office and it happens again, we'll have no one to blame but ourselves. >> wow, it's part of a new video congressman eric swalwell wants to make sure that the republicans who gave donald trump a pass are held to account. the video calls out and names names, the 14 senators up for re-election next year. this comes as the fbi is moving ahead with its investigation into january 6th. they released new videos related to the pipe bombs placed outside the democrat and republican offices the night before. the fbi is hoping the videos generate fresh tips.

let's bring in eric swalwell. the video is brutal, but it all happened in public view. they all repeated those lies on their favorite media channels and we all tragically watched the insurrection on live tv. you seem to be making the bet that it is not only deadly and dangerous, but it's also terrible politics. explain. >> just because those 14 senators let donald trump off the hook does not mean we have to in november 2022. i'm going to do all i can over the next two years to make sure that as many of those 14 senators don't return to washington. they promoted the big lie and acquitted the big lie. i was fortunate to work with people to make that video. it's a call to action. we're not helpless. we can do something. it's time to get to work.

>> i always think about the political ramifications for what seem like reckless decisions by republicans. for this to be successful on your part you have to convince people that the lie is just that, a lie. what is your strategy for combatting disinformation that is institutionalized by social media and right wing media? >> the lie threatens our safety every day, not just my safety, not just the staff and police officers, but the safety of every day americans is threatened when white nationalists are stoked by law makers who day after day perpetuate this lie. what is so telling to me is that that cpac conference, the number one issue for those goers was election integrity. if you have senators still stoking this lie, you'll encourage the most extreme among

us to take up arms against their government because these senators are saying joe biden is not the lawful president. that's dangerous for all of us. >> you took this to the natural extension that those extremists are taking it to, to make it harder for people to vote. they made the same political calculation. if more people vote, they can't win. is there a need for a national iced effort to push back and call that what it is? in some states there's pushback, but in other states there's not as aggressive of a pushback. >> until a lab can clone stacy abrams, we have to pass the for the people act. instead of standing on the honorable decision that those states made by certifying the election for a democratic

president, instead they're saying why don't we never again put ourselves in the position where we have to certify an election for a democratic president by making it hard for voters to turn out. the only an dote for that is this bill. until you see that, they'll be institutionalizing this throughout the country and it will be hard to reverse. >> irony is dead when the people who were against the security at the capitol are running on something called election security. i wonder if there needs to be a more blunt and brutal calling out of the bs. i know you've been willing to go on fox news. is there a need now that he's been acquitted and not held to account to really take on these

lies that endanger voting rights? if people believe the lies, they'll believe the solution to the thing that doesn't exist. >> that's right, nicolle. they're not going away. if we give them a permissive environment to grow, it's only going to be worse. it's personal safety and it's your vote being certified in the 2022 or the presidential election going forward. the for the people act fixes that and then on the practical functional side of law enforcement, it's giving law enforcement the resources to attack white nationalism to understand how people are radicalized, recruited and projected on to targets. this ad, nicolle, is setting the table for what we all have to do in the years ahead. we have 14 names. there will be candidates i'll be working to support to make sure those senators don't return to the capitol. >> what is your understanding of where the investigation into the

insurrection stands? we learned just a few moments ago that a judge has said that former state department employee frederico klein must remain detained because he's a risk. he was a donald trump political appointee in the state department. there's new reporting every day. there are new images released every day. what does the investigation look like? >> hundreds of arrests and hundreds more to come. what encourages me as a former prosecutor is to see more and more evidence released publicly by the fbi. if you want to be a part of this investigation, retweet or share on your social media platforms anything the fbi puts out there. that has helped lead to a number of arrests and i was looking at some body camera footage today from the evidence we have and i saw an individual where i later

saw this individual in the video we put out today. we send that over. we have to do all we can to hold individuals accountable. i want to step back and say until law makers -- this comes from elizabeth neumann who used to be at the department of homeland security. until law makers unite and say we don't endorse these conspiracy theories for qanon and other groups, they see this as license when you're not condemning them. they see that as you're condoning it and it gives them license to carry out attacks. we need senators to step up and condemn it. >> what makes you think they're going to move in that direction when they just voted to spare the qanon member among them? >> it takes all of us to keep the pressure on. we can't let this go away. i know the names of every republican that voted to

perpetuate that big lie. my job is to make sure that our constituents do too. if they're not -- we cannot change their minds. then they need to know we'll work every day to change their seats. >> do you have any reason to suspect that donald trump is under investigation by the fbi or the new justice department for his role in inciting the insurrection? >> thank god i don't have to be a part of anymore prosecutions of donald trump. i don't. >> should he be? >> if the evidence warrants that, yes, nicolle. i said this when donald trump was president. politicians should not be a part of political investigations. i would hold myself to that. if the evidence is there he should not be pardoned, they should not take a walk on this because he's a former president. we saw in france what it looks like when you hold a former corrupt official accountable. it shows no one is above the

law. >> congressman eric swalwell, thank you for spending time with us. this white house on day 50 still having to contend with the heart breaking disaster that was left for them at the tournament border from the last guy. how president biden's promise for a more humane approach is being met on the ground. a live report is next. this is how you become the best! ♪“you're the best” by joe esposito♪ ♪ [triumphantly yells] [ding]

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the reason we're in this circumstance with thousands of kids coming across the border is because this administration did not feel that it was humane or moral to send kids back on this treacherous journey, on the treacherous journey back to countries where they were fleeing persecution, where they were fleeing really difficult circumstances. >> that was white house press secretary jen psaki on the rise in unaccompanied migrants detained at the southern border. this new surge comes as president biden looks to reopen the southern border after four years of trump putting up legal and physical barriers to migrants fleeing poverty, violence, and national disasters. specifically, the number of children has tripled over the past two weeks. nbc news confirms this record amount of migrant children that are being housed at two facilities that are running out of beds. let's bring in jacob soboroff, live on the southern border for us. jacob, we haven't -- i haven't -- i know you have focused on this every day but can you widen the lens a little

bit for us and just explain how this changed between the two administrations. >> reporter: well, remember, nicole, virtually no one at the tail end of the trump administration was allowed from that side of the mexican border with the united states to this side under the cover of protecting u.s. citizens from coronavirus. a trump public health regulation that public health experts said was bunk, wasn't based in public health at all but was based in xenophobia and racism. the biden administration, as jen psaki said in the clip that you played, started to allow children, although not everyone, not adults and not families, to come across the border. they left that law in place but they start to allow children to come across. there are thousands of children. there were thousands of children. there were literally being turned around and expelled if they made it from that side to this side immediately back to dangerous cities in mexico or their home countries in central america where as you very rightly point out they're fleeing poverty and violence and malnutrition and food insecurity and all the things that come

along with climate change affecting the region. so, what you're seeing now in border patrol stations is literally an issue of processing. they say they want to go to a fair, humane, safety and orderly system. that involves reforming the system as it is, but here we are in the third month of -- where they receive care of child welfare professionals twice enough. >> jacob, what should happen? what should -- while, i mean, comprehensive immigration reform is on the president's agenda. his last two predecessors before trump tried it. it's politically fraught. it's complicated at a policy level but there are, as you said, young children there. what should happen? >> well, you know, as you've heard me say before, it should be a wholesale re-examination of the enforcement apparatus down

here at the border. the only reason president trump was able to separate children like that, as i've often said, is that the infrastructure was in place here. it was in place under clinton, under bush, under obama when they built a lot of these border patrol facilities and then under trump when he super sized it to use it for separations. one example i've heard floated and i discussed it with the homeland security secretary, collocating child welfare professionals. this is what he told me. i want to show you, nicole. >> jacob, we already are collocating with hhs. we already have had at least one individual on a pilot basis doing the work of hhs in the border patrol facility so that the sponsor could be identified and vetted. >> reporter: just as a point of clarification, you're saying border patrol facility. is it a pilot program in one

facility only or is there hhs across the southwest border? >> i know that process already has begun. i don't have the particular numbers in mind and i'm happy to follow up, but that -- we're already on top of that, and that has begun. >> reporter: so, you know, just talking specifics, that would be a huge departure, to have child welfare experts down here at the border to get kids out of those jails, effectively what are jails here at the border, quickly and either get them to the shelters or get them to family members in an expedited fashion. we don't know yet how many people are part of the pilot program, the secretary told me about how quickly they can expand it, but that would be indeed a departure from both trump and obama administration policy down at the border. >> jacob soboroff, we're glad to have you on this. thank you for spending some time with us today. the next hour of "deadline white house" starts after a quick break. don't go anywhere. we are just getting started. n't. we are just getting started.

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trump. there's a dark side, and there's some magic there. what i'm trying to do is just harness the magic. >> the biggest loser of all time, 2018, the democrats won by the largest vote margin in u.s. history in a midterm election in 2018. is that magic? is it magic for donald trump to get in the way and actually cede the two seats in georgia and the control of the united states senate to democrats? is that magic? or to be so out of it, so amped up, so freaked out in the first debate that he calls himself the white house. he calls himself real action. no magic there. again, it's just grifting. >> no magic there. hi again, everyone. it's 5:00 in new york. the gop so determined to go down with the trump ship, which as

our colleague joe scarborough accurately points out there is decidedly sinking. trump lost his own election and lost republican control of the senate. he left his party in the minority in all of washington. meanwhile, his successor is seeing soaring public approval numbers, 60% of all americans approve of the job joe biden is doing as president, and 70% approve of his handling of the country's major crisis, the coronavirus pandemic. we all remember the former guy lied about it and refused to deal with it while he was in office and despite all that losing, the gop surrender continues. rory blunt announcing he will not run for re-election in 2022, making him the fifth republican senator to do so. the gop exodus could give us a clue as to where the party's heading. the five not seeking another term all hail from what they would call the governing wing of the party. let's be clear, blunt was not an anti-trumper. he never spoke out against the former president, reluctant to

acknowledge biden's victory in november and just recently voted against the covid relief package but blunt seemed to hint at where his party's heading and warned against it. i think the country has fallen off the edge of too many politicians saying, if you vote for me, i'll never compromise on anything. that's a philosophy that particularly does not work in a democracy. you don't say. but the trump brand of republicanism isn't interested in compromise or governing for that matter. when it comes to the former guy himself, he's got one thing on his mind, a revenge tour. a statement sent to donors makes clear the republican primaries are shaping up to be either you're with donald trump or you're against him. the statement said, no more money for rinos. they do nothing but hurt the republican party and our great voting base. they'll never lead us to greatness. send your donation to save

america pac at donaldjtrump.com. many trump acolytes are just waiting to pounce. from politico, at least half a dozen of trump's staunchest allies in the house are eager to carry the trump mantel into the senate. a wave of retirements by veteran senate republicans has created fresh opportunities for the house's hard liners in deep red states. but even in states won by president joe biden such as arizona and georgia, some of the former president's most loyal devotees are willing to test their political fortune, hoping to seize on a deep but baseless belief on the right that the election was stolen. a gop that has gutted itself with fealty to trump is where we start this hour. eugene daniels is her. and elizabeth neumann is back,

former assistant secretary for threat prevention and security policy at the department of homeland security and now the codirector of the republican accountability project. robert gibbs, i have to start with you and the one thing that isn't like all the others. the current president has a 60% approval rating. i'm old enough to remember when that was next to impossible. >> so am i. and i spent several years in the white house. no, look, i think the current president, joe biden's off to a terrific start. it will only get stronger tomorrow with the passage of covid relief. that is not going to stop, as you said, the kind of heat and light on the republican party's end being on the trump end of the political spectrum. and i think, you know, it has been remarkable to watch. as you said, it's been a bad week for governing wing. it's been a bad few weeks for the establishment wing of the republican party. and i think there's no doubt that regardless of the position that trump holds now, which is nothing in the structural sense

in the republican party, the republican party's almost certainly going to be more trumpian at the end of 2022 than it is at this moment. >> i want to push back on the notion, robert gibbs, that it was a bad week for the governing wing of the republican party and just assert that there is no governing wing of the republican party, because if there were -- if there were, you would not have had 43 republican senators who thought that you could govern in a body where you let the inciter of terrorism get away with it. so i guess my feeling is, what difference does it make if they all -- i mean, not if they all leave. i think mitt romney is a valuable reminder of the party's past. but there is no tussle. there's no tension on the right, robert gibbs. this is who they are. >> oh, i agree. i mean, i don't think, you know, there's the much ballyhooed civil war on the republican side ended without the firing of a shot and i don't disagree with you that it's a fair point that

there isn't a governing wing at the moment. as we get deeper into the president's term, as we head into infrastructure a topic that republicans in the house and senate like to talk about, they're going to have to literally put their money where their mouth is to see whether they're willing to take steps, as senator blunt said, to compromise, to do the not bad thing but compromise to see if they can move something forward and have some concept become governing law. >> eugene, i want to play you more of this lindsey graham interview, not because i care about lindsey graham but because listening to him talk about harnessing the magic is like listening to a drug addict talk about taking the good parts out of cocaine. listen to more of lindsey graham on axios. >> to me, donald trump is sort of a cross between jesse helms, ronald reagan and p.t. barnum. it's just this bigger than life deal. he could make the republican party something that nobody else

i know could make it, can make it bigger. he can make it stronger. he can make it more diverse. and he also could destroy it. >> that's their best hope, someone who could destroy something that they've spent their lives as a part of. >> yeah. i mean, watching lindsey graham go from getting his personal cell phone number read out to a crowd by president trump, then candidate trump, to being someone who was the translator for president trump and now saying publicly that the person that he has followed, that he thinks should continue to be a huge part of the party that he loves and he supports and is a part of could destroy that party and that that is a gamble that he's willing to take because of whatever magic that he thinks that president trump -- former president trump brings to the party. it's a gamble. it is a huge gamble, right? it's not the type of loyalty that president trump will give

back, and it's the kind of loyalty that he's always demanded. he's someone who says, just trust me, follow me, i'm not going to tell you where we're going. and he's not going to give that back, and so graham seems like he's spent the last four and a half years kind of explaining away president trump's worst instincts and he can't go back now. right? he can't go back to the person who was saying that president trump shouldn't be the nominee of the party. he has to continue forward, and how the republican party deals with that when you have people like lindsey graham, when you have others who are willing to follow former president trump, when really what he is doing and you know, republicans tell us behind the scenes, they won't say in front of the camera, but they know that what he's doing is dangerous for the party. these primaries, talking about, give me the money, don't give it to the rinoss. all of that is not really great for a party who has a really good chance of taking at least the house back in 2022.

>> you know, elizabeth, i wanted to say this carefully. what eugene is extrapolating from what lindsey graham said is the description of addiction. it is the description of abuse. donald trump has abused these members of the party who think that they can't win without him, and there's so much that they deserve in terms of losing elections, in terms of losing those two seats, but there is something so sick about watching it unfurl in public. >> absolutely. it is -- you've heard a lot of people compare it to a cult. there's so much deception tied up in his brand that he -- if you go back to the 1980s and study how trump did business back then, it is very similar to what he does today, which is you lie as much as you need to, to

the point where people -- we are not programmed to assume that people intentionally lie and lie at scale the way donald trump does, so somewhere along the way, we just kind of say, oh, well, it must be true, and there are psychologists that study this, but he has effectively created this mass deception for republicans that are now programmed to believe that what he says -- some element of it is true and then it gets regurgitated by conservative ink and it becomes their truth, and that deception that has taken over the base of the party, even if you have elected officials that know that it's not true, they are scared of him rallying their base, and having that come out and affect them and either losing their election or losing their power in some structure, but this is why principles

matter. it's why holding these officials accountable matters, because for the last four years, the only person to hold them accountable was donald trump through his tweets and it's why what representative swalwell is doing is important. it's why the republican accountability project is important to say, no, no, the thing that you don't need to be -- you don't need to be afraid of donald trump's tweets. you don't need to be afraid of donald trump saying that you're disloyal. you need to be afraid of your own actions and how your own actions are filled with lies and deception and are leading to violence in some cases. >> i want to show you something, robert gibbs. this is tim ryan, i think, putting voice to what this collision of people who are there and again, it used to be a good thing, to come on these shows and debate the right solution for the problems we all agreed plagued the country. but i want you to watch this. it seems apparent that governing

is made near impossible with the current state of the republican party. let's watch. >> heaven forbid we pass something that's going to help the damn workers in the united states of america. heaven forbid we tilt the balance that has been going in the wrong direction for 50 years. we talk about pensions. you complain. we talk about the minimum wage increase, you complain. we talk about giving them the right to organize, you complain. but if we were passing a tax cut here, you'd be all getting in line to vote yes for it. now, stop talking about dr. seuss and start working with us on behalf of the american workers. >> robert gibbs. >> does anyone wish tim ryan could get fired up or something? wow. he can't even keep his mask on. no, look, i was struck certainly last week at the notion that the two biggest issues for

republicans seem to be dr. seuss and mr. potato head, and just the idea that anybody in the last year has found those two things to be more important than a hundred other things that this country has had to deal with as it relates to a pandemic and an economic calamity that followed, you really do have to wonder what sort of world view do you have to employ in order for those to be the issues that keep your voters attuned to what you're trying to do. we certainly have gotten a long way away from duelling policy speeches, duelling pieces of legislation aimed at largely productive means, and i think it is -- it's been a real change in the way we do politics. it's hard to get the types of debates and compromise if you have no desire to be involved at

all in that arena to look for a solution. >> well, and robert gibbs, it's rendered impossible in a post-truth world. i mean, i think what we're seeing here in the beginning of the biden presidency is that he has already sort of checked off governing in a bipartisan way. he did that by garnering 76% of the american public in a plurality of republican people behind the covid relief package. and i wonder if you think that is what they always thought they would encounter or if you think ron klain thought there might be some actual muscle memory there for some republicans to govern with this white house. it's clear that is not the republican party that maybe even vice president biden had to contend with. >> oh, absolutely. i think this is a very different republican party, and you know, surprisingly so, if you look at

so much of what was in the covid relief bill that will pass the house tomorrow, i think, you know, you can imagine, you know, several of the elements were in the same bills that passed during trump's presidency that republicans voted for. i think it's an enormous political gamble, not one republican in the house, not one republican in the senate voted for covid relief, to put checks in people's pockets and vaccines in people's arms. it's quite a political gamble, a long way away from an election. >> and eugene, what is going to happen next in this country is that, what robert gibbs just described will become a reality. people will start getting checks in their mail, got a couple kids who get a whole bunch of checks in the mail, people will start having an easier time finding vaccines as the eligibility in every state includes more and more people, more and more ages and more and more professions, and that didn't have to be political, but those are only

democratic-backed policies. how are republicans expecting to try to taint that? do they want those efforts to fail? >> it seems like the only thing that they can say is kind of this general, it was a democratic wish list, right, they've said that quite a bit. and they focused, like robert was saying, on dr. seuss and focusing on mr. potato head, which to me, makes it seem that they know that they can't really attack this bill, because it is going to get people money in their pockets. it is going to get more money for state and local governments to do things, to make sure that people can social distance and have masks and all of those good things. they know that. and so, it is a little confusing, i think, for those of us that paid this much attention to politics of why they would not at least try to work with democrats on it, right, why they would not at least allow some people to vote yes on the republican side, either in the

senate or in the house. and what we continue to see is that the politics of contempt, the politics of doubling and tripling down, no matter who is wrong or right, that's where the gop is right now, and on the fringe are the people like mitt romney, are the people like susan collins or the people who want to compromise. the fringe of the party is what used to be the mainstream of the party and that's something they're going to have to contend with as they move forward to 2022. >> elizabeth, you have not thrown in the towel. your effort is called the republican integrity project. where do you start? >> well, this is going to sound a little weird, and i know viewers are going to tell me, because i hear it on twitter, it shouldn't be incumbent upon president biden or the democrats to extend the olive branch, but hear me out. we have half of the country who are listening to the bulk of or the majority of the republican party, i'm not talking about the

remnant who, you know, are still there, romney and sasse and kinzinger, but the bulk of the party are playing this obstructionist game and that's who they're listening to. and they're using these talking points like, you know, we're being canceled, and nobody cares -- basically, if you are on that side of the political spectrum, you believe that your voice doesn't matter anymore. that's a dangerous place for half of the country to be. and we really need to find a way to bridge that and it's probably best done by a president biden, to reach out and create a sense that he is hearing them, that he is understanding their concerns, and this is not because of touchy-feely, you know, i want bipartisanship. it's because with half a million -- not half a million -- half of the country that believe they're not being heard, some small percentage of them will

eventually radicalize and lead to -- it will lead to more violence like what we saw on january 6th. we are still in a very, very tense environment on the right, and one of the best ways to try to tamp down some of that tension is to see some progress on bipartisanship, so you do need to work with the romneys and the sasses, the adam kinzingers, the ones that are willing to be responsible and try to legislate, they may be small in number but it will have an outsized impact to send a signal to those on the right that they are -- their concerns are being listened to and we are trying to govern from the center and there are some upcoming pieces of legislation where it's important to try to do that, hr1 that was passed by the house, not going to pass in the senate. it would be great if they could, you know -- maybe it's a skinny down version of the bill but look at things that they could pass together because it's an important piece of legislation that does need to pass. but listen to the concerns that

people are voicing on the right and try to address them. and now there will be immigration reform. there is no way to get that done unless we find places to compromise, so i realize that it shouldn't have to be this way, but one of the reasons i chose to vote for biden is because he was willing to demonstrate that kind of leadership, to extend the hand out to those willing to work with him, even though it's well within his rights to do everything just with his side for the good of the country, we need to see that bipartisan leadership from him. >> elizabeth neumann, i appreciate you putting yourself out there. i know what it feels like. i have to say this, when people tweet at you, it's usually constructive, urging to see their side. but it still feels scary sometimes to put yourself out there. i'm grateful to you for doing that. and the other thing i would add is that so many of my memories or biden as a senator were through his friendships with republicans that i used to work for, people like john mccain, and when he went with him, when

john mccain gave that speech about donald trump's foreign policy belonging in the ash heap of history, it's clear that president biden has stood with, figuratively and literally, people on the other side of the aisle and knows how to do that outreach and i think the 76% public support for the bill suggests he did it pretty effectively around his first big legislative push. eugene and elizabeth, i appreciate you both so much. thank you for starting us off this hour. robert gibbs is sticking around. when we come back, republicans under the spell of the donald trump are using his big lie about election fraud to suppress the vote and make it harder to vote all across this country. we're going to tell you about the newest case where even republicans who supported a bill to slash ballot access admit there was no vote fraud in 2020. that incredible story is next. plus, with the finish line of the coronavirus pandemic finally starting to come into view, what health officials are getting right and what they're getting wrong about the messages they're sending all of us right now. and a stunning warning from the state department. russia has launched a

disinformation campaign to sow doubts about coronavirus vaccines right here in the united states. we'll explain why. it might be working and what's being done to fight it. "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. ontinues after a quick brk.ea don't go anywhere. ♪ ♪♪ comfort in the extreme. the lincoln family of luxury suvs. ugh, there's that cute guy from 12c. -go talk to him. -yeah, no. plus it's not even like he'd be into me or whatever. ♪♪ ♪ this could be ♪ hi. you just moved in, right? i would love to tell you about all the great savings you can get for bundling your renter's and car insurance with progressive. -oh, i was just -- -oh, tammy. i found your retainer in the dryer. we need to reduce plastic waste in the environment. that's why at america's beverage companies,

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iowa has become the latest state to consider voting restrictions in the wake of an election that saw record turnout. the state's republican governor signed into law a bill curbing early voting. the a.p. reports republicans said the new rules were needed to guard against voting fraud, though they noted iowa has no history of election irregularities and that

november's election saw record turnout with no hint of problems in the state. during debate over the bill, one gop state senator even said, quote, the ultimate voter suppression is a very large swath of the electorate not having faith in our election systems. what he did not mention was that the lack of faith in systems stems from his party's willingness to repeat donald trump's lie that the election was stolen. that iowa law is now the target of a legal challenge by a latino civil rights group and a group of democratic attorneys, and in georgia, a state that went blue for the very first time since 1992 and sent two democrats to the senate just two months ago on the back of strong turnout, especially among african-american voters in the state, that state's senate has passed a law rolling back absentee voting that was so strict that the republican lieutenant governor opposed it, refusing to even participate in the debate over the bill. joining our conversation, eugene robinson, pulitzer prize winning

"washington post" columnist and an msnbc political analyst. robert gibbs is still with us. eugene, this is a disgrace. this is what sore losers do, but -- not but, and it looks like in some of these republican-heavy state legislatures, they could get away with it. >> well, they might get away with it, and it's a -- it is a disgrace and a scandal. and it would be funny if it weren't so serious, right. in iowa? have you ever been to iowa? have you ever watched the elections in iowa? i mean, this is ridiculous. and they acknowledge -- no, there was like zero fraud, zero irregularities, zero problems, nothing. yet, they want to restrict voting. now, in the case of iowa, unlike georgia, it's hard to make the case that this is, you know, a

standard republican attempt to keep people of color from voting. there aren't a whole lot of people of color in iowa, right? so, this is -- maybe it's other democratic constituencies they seek to keep away from the polls, and maybe yes, maybe they want to reassure republicans who believe donald trump when he says it's all rigged and who in georgia stayed home in the runoff elections and two democrats were elected to the senate. but regardless of the motive, this is an outrage and it has to be resisted at the state level and hopefully with the federal for the people act, the voting rights legislation, that somehow democrats have to figure a way to get through the senate that

could potentially obviate some of the worst voter suppression measures that are being enacted across the country. >> robert gibbs, irony was murdered again last night. the palm beach post is reporting that donald trump has requested a mail-in ballot. i want to talk to you about just how stupid this looks. republicans are for access to ballots and voting for themselves, but they're not even trying to hide that the people they want to keep away from the polls are the people that are not likely to vote for republicans, and to address the iowa question, i can tell you who they don't want to vote in iowa. young people. college students. they don't want them to be able to vote. so it's anyone who might not choose paid liars to represent them. >> yeah, and i think, you know, nicole, if you talk to anybody in florida, particularly in politics, they'll tell you the republican party for 20 years has sought to figure out how best to take advantage, very

legally, of absentee balloting and absentee voting, and it's led to real big margins in absentee votes on the florida republican side, but i'm really struck by the idea that, you know, one, they're trying to solve a problem they decided was a problem because they kept saying it was even if it wasn't. but secondarily, you know, it is a party that is clearly becoming known for this desire for a smaller, controllable, if you will, electorate as the key to their success. they've decided the more people that participate, the less well they'll do. i think that is a very interesting political message for a party that has lost all but one in terms of the popular vote in the last sort of six or seven elections. this is not a party that believes in the strength of ideas and feels like it's the

growth party in the united states, despite a lot of talk about how to expand the electorate and reaching out to black and hispanic voters. >> and eugene, the whole thing is so corrupt because it all stands on top of a lie. there was no voter fraud. i mean, the guy in charge of making sure that was the case, chris krebs, was on our program. it was the most secure election in the country's history so they're now heading down a path based on a lie. >> based on a total lie. look at all the things they're doing in georgia, curbing, you know, early voting, weekend voting, so there's no souls to the polls. they're just pulling out all the stops in an election that republican officials, the secretary of state, the governor, republican officials have certified and sworn on a stack of bibles was absolutely fair and free and the votes were counted three times and there was no problem.

so, you know, irony left the building a couple years ago, so we can -- we know we don't have to worry about irony, but it's -- it is absurd. it's also a dicey proposition. you know, do you also end up deterring some of those donald trump republicans who were not always faithful voters and who you might catch in your net as you try to keep these undesirables from the polls. >> eugene robinson, robert gibbs, two of my favorite humans, thank you for spending some time with us today. when we return, from masks to vaccines to variants, getting the public health messaging just right as the end of the coronavirus pandemic begins to slowly come into focus. that story next. that story next. ce for busy veterans like kate. so when her car got hit, she didn't waste any time. she filed a claim on her usaa app and said, “that was easy.” usaa. what you're made of, we're made for.

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just fill and chill. if you smell gas, you're too close. leave the structure, call 911, keep people away, and call pg&e right after so we can both respond out and keep the public safe.

if you see wires down, treat them all as if they're hot and energized. stay away from any downed wire, call 911, and call pg&e right after so we can both respond out and keep the public safe. i think that we're trying basically to plant our petunias in a category 5 hurricane right now. i think the next three to five weeks we're going to see major outbreaks in schools throughout the united states with b.1.1.7 and i think we just are going to have a real challenge. we're going to be opening schools and i think closing schools all within a matter of weeks. >> dr. michael osterholm there warning about the impact of covid mutations could have on our progress against coronavirus as the pandemic's finish line comes into view, the bigger picture question now is how do we balance the clear emerging threat of the variants with the fact that more than 2 million

americans are being vaccinated every single day and a record 2.9 million on sunday with safe and effective protection. our next guest writes in "the atlantic" about the need for balanced optimism. there is nothing wrong with realism and question, but effective communication requires a sense of proportion. distinguishing between due alarm and alarmism. warranted measured caution and doom bait. worst case scenarios and claims of impending catastrophe. we need to be able to celebrate profoundly positive news while noting that the work -- while noting the work that still lies ahead. we are joined now by the author of that "atlantic" piece, zeynep tufekci, faculty associate at harvard's berkman kline center for internet and society. we're also joined by dr. kavita patel, former obama white house health policy director. we lost zeynep but i want to start with something that she

wrote that really was put on my radar by her piece. zeynep, are you there? can you hear us? we're having some problems with your connection. she's not there. we're going to try to get her up. dr. patel, she writes about taking the things that are, for lack of a better word, unknown to us, the real threat that the variants will have and holding them up in an equal manner for a public that has not gone to medical school, that are not scientists or epidemiologists, with what we do no which is that the vaccines are effective, they're saving lives and protecting against those variants. i think her broader point is there is a need for proportionality. >> yeah, nicole, and i read that article when it came out and it -- >> dr. patel. >> oh? >> can you hear us, dr. patel? >> i can hear you. >> okay. >> i don't think you can hear me. >> i can hear you now. dr. patel, can you weigh in on this point of sort of the -- the

science that people like yourself are still trying to understand, the potential impacts of the uk variants and others where we have known science around the efficacy of the vaccines. how do we proportion those out? >> yeah, i think what we're trying to do is convey that this is, like, a series of probabilities and with those probabilities there is low risk and high risk, and like you said, it's not easy to do that. honestly, i have a public health degree and a medical degree and it takes me years to learn these things, so i think zeynep's point, which is accurate, is that we were being so overly cautious in some of our messaging that we failed to highlight the progress we were making, but nicole, in the beginning, you'll remember we were -- our backs were against the wall with a knowledge that we had an administration that was actively filtering the science or blocking the science, and then like all science and like all medicine, nicole, that was evolving and unfolding in front of our very eyes. what we thought was a standard

in february of 2020, we have now learned a lot more about. i mean, i changed the way we handled patient. we were intubating patients instantly and now we know we have to do this thing called proning. it's crazy. so if i had to kind of think about zeynep's thoughtful article and the context of the real world, how do we communicate when there are so many competing pressures, and to your point, you're right. we needed to say, these vaccines are incredibly effective. it's a miracle of modern medicine. some of us are trying to balance that, but nicole, i'm watching these scenes of, like, spring break in florida and i know zeynep, you've written thoughtfully about outdoor super spreader events or the lack of evidence. i've got to tell you, you know, but we still try to do everything we can to mitigate risk and that becomes the theme of what we're communicating. >> zeynep, do we have you? i know this is the peril of live television in the time of the pandemic. i can't wait until you're all sitting around a table again and

we can have this conversation like normal, civilized people. zeynep, i quoted your piece, and i know that you were frustrated with some of the way it was characterized so i just want to give you a chance first to talk about what you write about being outdoors and about safety and about public messaging around those things. >> right. so, i think outdoors is something we talk about a lot because we should have encouraged people to go outdoors. i started writing articles saying, we have to keep parks open, we have to let people be more outdoors, exactly because a pandemic is hard. it's going to take us a year, so i've been sort of on that message since last march when the evidence emerged that, you know, transmission outdoors, it's not impossible, but it's a higher bar, and super spreading just doesn't seem to happen in those outdoors, you know, sort of a sunny day with the virus being diluted by the air.

doesn't mean completely throwing away all cautions, just probably a safer place to be, and we can communicate that. instead of indoors, where otherwise things will happen outside of our view. and i think what happened is we kind of latched on to pictures like the white house event that was a super spreader event that happened through multiple days. it wasn't just one day and there was a huge indoor component, but most of the photographs we saw were the rose garden. that got people the wrong impression, that the rose garden was the problem when you have all these things that we know happened out of sight that were really dangerous, people without masks indoors, crowded, probably not very well ventilated so that's what i'm saying is not that we shouldn't be cautious, but we should be cautious against the right things exactly so people know how to keep

themselves safer and also exactly so we don't just sort of blame people because there's grocery store workers and restaurant workers and tons of people who can't be -- who can't not be indoors, right? we have to figure out how can they be safer and that was kind of my -- one of my goals with the piece, saying that we can try to give the messaging in a more balanced way, exactly so people know how to stay safer. >> dr. patel, this seems really important right now, and i know that some doctors that have come on this show, dr. nguyen and others, were concerned that the guidance on what vaccinated people could do came out a little late and wasn't as permissive as maybe they thought people might turn out to function, and i wonder if you could just speak to sort of public health messaging either losing its connection to the public mood and dr. osterholm and everyone has talked about

pandemic fatigue as well as not speaking, maybe, to the fact that the vaccines have shown in countries that are farther along with their vaccinations to really cut transmission. >> well, i think that you're bringing up, probably, what keeps most of us up at night, because you're right, the cdc, by the way, just as an agency, tends to be overly cautious, in general. this is not some new phenomenon. and they like to, you know, they were putting out weekly reports with data and the thing is that, nicole, i think it was unfair to put that entire responsibility on one agency whose job is not really to do public health communications, so to your point, i agree. the cdc guidance was overly cautious, and i'm just looking at the real world. i have patients who are like, i'm going on spring break, i'm booking a cruise, i'm doing these things, and zeynep's right. we need to start to give people what they need as individuals to protect themselves where i think it's confusing is that i can't ask the cdc director to talk

about something for the care of individuals. she's looking out for policy-related to population and you know better than anyone, nicole, when you're making policy, you're trying to get all people encompassed, and it's hard to say, i'll be honest, i have patients that were diagnosed with some of these rallies that were outside and it's not the majority, but we have been trying, in a pandemic, where we didn't understand the implications of getting sick with the coronavirus, we have been trying to manage both the majority and the minority, and that's where i think if we could do a better job, and i look back on this past year, it's how to help individuals and also how could we have helped kind of the nation or larger groups of people? we just didn't do that, and we never took that as a priority, and going forward, we're going to have to, because covid is going to be with us in some form or fashion. >> i really -- i appreciate your candor there, and i think -- i just think we still take our shoes off at airplanes because there was one piece of intelligence and so we all -- it

is this idea of the things that we do for the collective good and i think we'll probably get to the point in vaccinations where people are no longer scouring the sites and the motive has to be to protect your community, to protect people around you because it cuts transmission. zeynep, i want to apologize to you for getting some of your reporting wrong the first time. we're very glad to have you here. i hope you will come back. your piece is wonderful. i hope everybody reads it. in "the atlantic." and dr. kavita patel, thank you for being here and sorting through all of this with us every day. we're very grateful to you both. when we return, the state department is warning that russia has launched a disinformation campaign to undermine confidence in coronavirus vaccines. that story is next. and coming up tomorrow, we will reflect on the past year and share the stories of covid-19 victims, their families, how they've inspired the country. join me for a special presentation, an hour of lives well lived tomorrow night at 8:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. w night at 8:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. ♪♪

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it's a stunning new warning from the united states state department, officials there say russian intelligence agencies have launched a disinformation campaign to undermine trust in covid vaccines made in the u.s. and europe. from the "wall street journal" reporting, an state department's global engagement center, which monitors foreign disinformation efforts, identified four publications that he said have served as fronts for russian intelligence. the websites played up the vaccine's risk of side effects, questioned their efficacy, and said the u.s. had rushed the pfizer vaccine through the approval process, among other false or misleading claims. joining our conversation, national security analyst clint watts, former fbi special agent and fellow at the alliance for securing democracy, and our resident expert on disinformation. it's clear to me what the motive was around the election disinformation and amplifying trump. it's not totally clear to me what the motive is to make more americans sick? is it to destabilize us? what is the incentive behind

this russian disinformation? >> nicolle, it's really two or three-pronged. on a global scale, it's to make america look like it's weak or in a disastrous state and undermine confidence in the u.s. in terms both its covid response and its delivery of the vaccine. separate, we're in a global competition at this point. remember, sputnik 5, the russian vaccine really came out first. they were pushing it very aggressively around the world, and they see it as competitors, right? it's something that they got on to early. so the russians really want to advance it. it's vaccine diplomacy at this point. can they issue the vaccine? can they be seen as the saviors going around the world, really handing out the vaccine, stepping into a void that the u.s. has completely left. if you are sitting around the world right now, you see the u.s. mired in covid, tons of covid cases, tons of covid death, slow, at least up until recently in terms of the vaccine roll-out. so they want to go toe to toe

with those companies like pfizer and moderna in particular, and they want to go toe to toe with the united states globally as well. >> clint, what is a white house that isn't subservient to vladimir putin like the last one was to do? what is the normal pushback when you're caught red-handed in engaging in these disinformation efforts? >> well, the good news is we actually got some disclosures. so the outlets that are cited in that "wall street journal" report are well-known. i've been on here many times. and when i'm referring to kremlin disinformation, those are the ones i'm talking about. so it's great to get information because it empowers the rest of the public. researchers like myself and my team, many other researchers out there to come up with methods to dispel the vaccine disinformation that's out there and know where it's coming from. i think the second part is you have to counter message. and that is where i'm still a little bit nervous, but i'm hopeful and optimistic that the new white house will turn different, which is every day you don't message, you lose.

we have to be putting out the message about what's going on in the u.s., how much we've accelerated, how safe our vaccines are, and why we have multiple vaccines. we have a capitalist market that was backed by a great program, backed by the u.s. government. we are upping our distribution. we're doing millions of shots every day. and we have, who else, bill gates, right? the world's philanthropist who really accelerated a lot of this. we have a lot of good news to talk about. we just need to get that truth out there and really scale it around the world. >> it's just amazing the disinformation, domestic and foreign is an undercurrent in everything that challenges our country. it's a conversation i'm sure we'll continue to have. clint watts, thank you so much for spending some time was on it today. when we return, as we do every day, we will remember lives well lived.

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it was one of the most important things they taught their family. kathleen and obed delgado wanted their children and grandchildren to understand that they're always stronger together, that in hard times, in tragic times, it is family that carries you through. last july, the delgados were forced to reckon with such a tragedy. kathleen and obed both contracted covid-19, and they both died two days apart. they were strong. they were generous, giving to those in need. their obituary urges people instead of sending flowers to donate to a local food bank and emblaze escondido on their joint headstone, two words, "stronger together." we'll be right back. 'll be righ. ♪ hey now, you're an all-star, get your game on, go play ♪ ♪ hey now, you're a rock star, get the show on, get paid ♪

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thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these extraordinary times. we're grateful. "the beat" with ari melber starts right now. hi, ari. >> hi, nicolle. thank you very much. welcome to beth beet. i am ari melber. we're tracking several big stories right now. this growing manhunt as the fbi releases new video on pipe bombs planted outside both party's headquarters before the federal riot. a man shown linked to long-time trump associate roger stone. we'll have that story later, as well as the murder trial that begins for the officer who killed george floyd. the family's attorney joins me later in the hour. we begin with the top story right now, president biden marching tow