♪♪ hi, everyone. it's 4:00 in the east. big breaking news today. a pair of reports from the federal government released in the last hour blow out of the water a lie that donald trump started telling in the summer of 2020 about the risk of foreign interference altering the outcome of the 2020 presidential election. and one that he and his allies told for months after his stinging defeat to joe biden. from the doj, dhs report, the department's investigated multiple public claims that one or more foreign governments own, directed or controlled election frsk used in the 2020 federal elections. implemented a scheme to manipulate election infrastructure or tallied, changed or otherwise manipulated

vote counts. the departments found those claims were not credible. not credible, as in, there was no foreign interference. the kind trump allies, rudy giuliani, sidney powell and others repeatedly touted on the campaign trail as evidence to fuel their dangerous lie on the legitimacy of the november result. of course, that was just a small part of the disinformation apparatus that trump and his supporters deployed in the weeks and months surrounding the election. there was also the lie that china -- not so much russia -- was involved in a massive election manipulation campaign. here's donald trump breaking with his own fbi director christopher wray on that point. >> we've certainly seen very active, very active efforts by the russians to influence our election in 2020 through maligned foreign influence side of things. social media, use of proxies, state media, online journals, et

cetera. an effort to both sow divisiveness and discord and i think the intelligence community has assessed this publicly, to primarily denigrate vice president biden. >> i did not like his answers yesterday. and i'm not sure he liked them either. i'm sure that he probably would agree with me. the big problem is china. and we can have others also. i'm not excluding anybody. but the big problem is china. >> today that trump lie is being knocked down as well in another report from the new odni declassifying the extent of the russian effort to defeat joe biden. the report describes russia's efforts at denigrating president biden's candidacy fld the democratic party supporting former president trump, undermining public confidence in the electoral process, and exacerbating socio political divisions in the u.s. and concluding that on china,

quote, they did not deploy interference efforts and considered but did not deploy influence efforts intended to change the outcome of the u.s. presidential election. to be perfectly clear, two newly declassified reports reveal that trump's lies about the risk of foreign meddling in any way that could change the outcome of the 2020 election were a classically trumpian combination of lies, russian disinformation and grave mischaracterizations. "the washington post" puts it this way. quote, while foreign disinformation and interference was a major concern heading into the 2020 campaign, domestic efforts to disrupt the race, including by then-president donald trump and his allies, turned out to be a far greater significance. the post adds this reminder that trump, quote, fired the department of homeland security's top cybersecurity official, chris krebs who will join us later in this program, after krebs repeatedly assured the public last year that the country's voting systems were

secure. that no votes were changed or data altered. conclusions that today's reports both uphold. the unwinding of donald trump's corruption of intelligence regarding election interference is where we start this hour. elizabeth newman is here. the former assistant secretary of counterterrorism and threat prevention at the department of homeland security. she's now the director of the republican accountability project. also joining us, msnbc political analyst phil rucker, a "washington post" senior washington correspondent, and robert gibbs, former white house press secretary. phil rucker, i read one as i was trying to comb my hair. it's messy and i read the second as i sat down. these are stunning, stunning sort of efforts at transparency in an area where donald trump perhaps told his most brazen and as we all know after 1/6, dangerous lies. >> exactly right, nicolle. it's the beginning of a public

accounting of what happened with regard to the november election last year. not only what happened in terms of the results and discounting the statements from then-president trump, but what happened in terms of actions by foreign countries. we learned in this report that russia did, in fact, wage campaigns to try to denigrate joe biden's candidacy in 2020. they did not, according to the intelligence report, alter the votes or tap into the election infrastructure in the united states but they certainly tried to shape public opinion and sow discord in this country. iran did the same to try to hurt trump and china considered it but didn't. this was all going on at a time when president trump was trying to tell americans not to worry about foreign interference because he was still haunted by what happened in the 2016 campaign when russia also acted to try to help him win that election. >> elizabeth newman, from your

perch, it's clear that the security apparatus run by chris krebs, run by the department of homeland security worked. and these reports corroborate what he attested to. of course, donald trump fired him in a fit of rage, i guess, at the facts and the results of what the department achieved didn't fit the lie he was telling and using sidney powell and rudy giuliani to tell. but you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube and that lie is now being operationalized and weaponized all across the country. what is the importance of making sure people understand what's in these reports today? >> well, i think it's important to go back and remember that there were multiple intelligence community representatives speaking to the public about what we were seeing in terms of foreign election interference during the course of the election. chris krebs was one of those. director wray was one of those. and multiple times, and i'm thinking as far back as february 2020, you had these officials

coming out and suggesting that we were seeing a different type of interference. we were seeing russia amplify this information that was already happening here inside the united states. you heard right before the election that it's not china. it's iran. that was the big new thing in this election cycle that iran was getting in the game but china not so much. so the reason i point that out is because this was not speculative. this is stuff that, you know, this is not just discovered after the election. the intelligence community was seeing this and reporting as it goes. the president had access to this information. he either refused to get briefed, in which case it's a dereliction of duty or he was aware of this and actively lying. that's the first thing that republicans as they start to look and assess this information, you need to understand that the big lie started well before election day. the second thing is that you have members of the house and members of the senate that

belong to the intelligence oversight committees. they will have access to a lot of the backup supporting evidence to show that these findings are conclusive. dig into it. make sure you convinced yourself and then please, for the sake of our security, go and inform your constituents that this election was not stolen. doing that will save lives. there's a direct connection between the big lie that the president laid groundwork for during the election season and carried out during the post-election period, and the violent extremism that is still a threat that we're facing today. they can actually help if they would tell the truth and now they have more evidence to back themselves up. >> it's such a good point. i don't want to move on from it. robert gibbs, if you can just pick up. what elizabeth is saying, we're learning this for the first time, but this is the product of the intelligence community, which donald trump was supposed to be their number one client.

so let me show you what his lawyers were saying when, as elizabeth is saying, donald trump knew it was a lie. here's sidney powell talking about the intersection of china and venezuela. >> we know china also has a substantial presence in venezuela and substantial interest in making sure that president trump does not continue in office. this is the consummate foreign interference in our election in the most criminal way you can possibly imagine. >> you couldn't possibly believe that the company counting our vote with control over our vote is owned by two venezuelans who were allies of chavez, are present allies of maduro with a company whose chairman is a close associate and business partner of george soros. the biggest donor to the democrat party, the biggest

donor to antifa and the biggest donor to black lives matter. my goodness. what do we have to do to get you to give our people the truth. >> so if the crazy and the hair dye distracted you, let me remind folks why we played that again. he's blaming foreign governments. donald trump knew what we learned today. there was no foreign interference that affected the outcome of the election. let me read again the findings from the reports released today. the department's investigated multiple public claims. i'm told it's those two chiefly that one or more foreign governments owned, directed or controlled election infrastructure used in the 2020 federal elexss, implemented a scheme to tally, change or otherwise manipulated vote counts. the departments found those claims were not credible. so donald trump had access to the intelligence at the moment that he was reveling in that weird performance from his own

lawyers. >> no doubt about it. to see these clips, we believe they weren't true then. we now know, not only were they not true, but they were perpetuating a lie that, quite frankly, even the top of our government and president donald trump knew wasn't true. what we also underscored today that is true is that russia and putin continue to try to meddle in our information ecosystem by spreading disinformation in the 2020 campaign. we still see it now with reports just last week that the russians are trying to spread disinformation around certain covid vaccines. look, the only -- the response we kept seeing most clearly around russian disinformation and donald trump was how upset and angry he would get if somebody brought that up inside of the oval office, right? so he was cognizant when the

truth was out there, except when he thought lying about what was happening would benefit him in this campaign. so it is pretty stark reports to lay out there. and it's going to require, quite frankly, i think, a fairly robust response from the current administration particularly as it relates to russia and continued disinformation. >> i want you to say more about that, robert gibbs. and we're going to dive into this more deeply because the odni report, the report that came out today from the intelligence agencies declassifies a very detailed operation with individuals, you know, we could get people that were carrying out the functions, peddling disinformation. and they name names. they name the name of individuals who met with ron johnson. and we know what the campaigns look like. what's interesting in the intel

report that's declassified is that russia had its eyes on denigrating joe biden all the way back to 2014. donald trump picked up the baton and got himself impeached carrying on their efforts, and i wonder, not to look backward but to keep with your frame of looking forward, what does the recalibration of the u.s./russian relationship look like? >> well, i have no doubt, not having spent a lot of time with the report, but i have no doubt that one of the reasons why putin continued to do this. we know in 2016 what happened. but between 2016 and 2020, we know what didn't happen mean was never confronted with this. the commander in chief never called him to task. if anything, all the opposite. and so i think we shouldn't have expected, quite frankly, putin to have acted differently than he did four years ago, but it's going to take this president, joe biden, who has to confront

putin with this directly. they'll have to be continued and stronger sanctions on what goes on because, again, now we're into this -- we're into the disinformation around the covid vaccine and the russians are trying to sow continued chaos around that. so this isn't something that we can compartmentalize as happening every two years or every four years during important elections. we now know and have known for a while that russian disinformation is part of their national security apparatus as it deals with relating to the united states. and it's going to have to be, at the very top of anything in which we deal with, with russia on. there's no doubt about the fact that joe biden and really the whole government is going to have to confront russia and its entire government if it's going to begin to act any differently. >> phil rucker, one of the results of these two reports, and i read through both of them, is that the figures in the trump

administration, most of whom we learned about from reporters like yourself, reporting on sort of the struggles between ethics and patriotism and trump's corruption about men like john kelly and others. the reports reveal -- what's a good way to put it -- the men from the boys. chris krebs is someone who had a northstar and let it guide him. christopher wray was contradicted in the tape we just played. john ratcliffe is going to fall in whatever that other category is. someone silly and political. here's what he wrote in an op-ed in december. china is national security threat number one. he was the director of national intelligence. this was the line when he said this. as director of national intelligence, i'm entrusted with access to more intelligence than any member of the u.s. government other than the president. i oversee the intelligence agencies. my office produces the president's daily brief detailing the threats facing the country. if i could communicate one thing

to the american people, this unique vantage point, it's this. the people's republic of china poses the greatest threat to america today and the greatest threat to democracy and freedom worldwide since world war ii. i mean, his office did not support those based on today's declassified report, phil rucker. >> yeah, nicolle. they found they did not engage in election interference as ratcliffe suggested in that op-ed, but let's keep in mind it wasn't just people in this administration perpetuaing the lie but it was the president exacting revenge and punishing those who told the truth. when chris krebs said publicly the 2020 election was the safest in memory, i am paraphrasing his words there, but it was something along those lines, he got fired for it. he was ousted from the government for standing up and saying the truth. when chris wray, the fbi director would testify in

congress about the danger russia posed for election interference in the run up to the 2020 election it created rumor mills that trump was going to fire him, and trump talked to his aides about firing him. he obviously held off on doing so, but he wanted to retaliate against those who were willing to speak truth to power and to say in to the public what they knew based on the intelligence was going on. >> such a good reminder of what these national security agencies and officials had to contend with. one thing that's clear as the trump story, something we can evaluate in the rear-view mirror is the russian relationship, put conspiracy or anything mueller investigated for a moment aside, but the notion of mission is reinforced again that it was uniquely shared. donald trump joined the russian disinformation mission in ways

that i can't imagine the russians thought possible. and his allies and aides became the vehicles for disseminating russian disinformation. what do we do about the fact that some of them are still running around? >> that's a great point. look, the intelligence community has assessed that russia's disinformation efforts going back five, six years now, is about sowing societal discord. it's about making us weak as a society so forward focused with our own navel gazing hatred for each other that we do not have the capability to stand up to them if and when they do something that is against our national interest or a violation of international norms. they totally succeeded without launching a missile, without raising an army. they have been so successful in

helping us just crumble in terms of being more focused on whether the democrats are marxist or republicans are fascist. all we do is fight all the time about how we hate the other. and donald trump was instrumental. it was a factor that was happening before he came into the national spotlight. he absolutely capitalized on that. and it is now the common dynamic of our politics which is why last week when i was on your show, and i did get a lot of criticism for this, the idea of bipartisan compromise is so critical to counteracting what russia's game is. we have to come back to an idea -- to a place where we can have civil discourse and where we can disagree respectfully and the political opponent is not an enemy that we dehumanize but rather somebody else with a different perspective. and we listen and we learn from

that other perspective and try to find a common ground where we can move forward and solve our challenges. that's important not just because of our domestic intelligences we need to address. it creates a unity of resolve and counteracting bad actors like russia. so when i called for that bipartisan compromise, i realize republicans don't deserve much, but there are a handful that are still trying to be the adults in the room. and i believe that there are a handful of democrats that recognize the importance of that compromise. president biden is one of them. so i think it's just important that we, the people, encourage moderation in our dialogue. we can still make progress without hating one another as we're talking about things. and maybe, maybe this intelligence report helps remind us that there's really a lot at stake here in being able to get back to a civil discourse with one another. not only to prevent violence here that's happening within our

homeland but also so that we can maintain our strength in the international community and push back against bad actors like russia. >> i think, robert gibbs, something else it does is it will inform people who are working with russia and not interested in what elizabeth describes. here's what the intelligence community found. the key element of moscow's strategy this election cycle was its use of people linked to russian intelligence to launder influence narratives, including misleading or unsubstantiated narratives against mr. biden through u.s. media organizations, u.s. officials and prominent u.s. individuals. some of whom were close to former president trump and his administration. so i think that what elizabeth describes is probably close to what's in joe biden's heart, but if you've got people who are u.s. officials, prominent u.s. individuals, some close to former president trump and his

administration, who are more loyal to putin than to this country, i think it's worth finding out who they are and understanding where their loyalties lie. >> wholeheartedly. i think i'm struck listening to this, that the party of ronald reagan has now descended into basically taking the talking points of a former kgb agent and spreading them throughout the popular networks of information in the united states. and i think it's hard not to call on those individuals to account for their actions. i think, look, i think we're all for unity and bipartisanship. we'd like to see more of it. but i think when you have individuals, both in the oval office, meeting in the oval office, that are taking known

amounts of disinformation, again, peddled by a former kgb agent, into the atmosphere of this country and, quite frankly, sowing and fomenting that disconnection, that disunity, i think it's hard to move forward without calling it out. and i think there are people that we know both in these reports. i think there's some that we learn about in the next few hours when we start to put names to some of those personas in that reports that ought to be asked these questions. where do you loyalties lie? why were you doing this? they are all going to be interesting answers because, again, i think we can't get away from the fact this is deep russian disinformation extended through the oval office and extended out of it by members of the president -- president's administration and the president. >> and those lies are at the root of a deadly attack on the united states capitol. phil rucker, robert gibbs, thank

you for starting us off on a day of breaking news. elizabeth is sticking around. we'll have much more on this topic on these brand-new reports in the next hour when chris krebs, who oversaw the 2020 election and described it as the most secure in our country's history will join us. promoing here and doubt of covid vaccines without any evidence could mean life and death for some. why is that message being pushed prominent plea in primetime on another network. and if things are looking up, you can thank the government for that. plus, righting the wrongs of some collateral damage from the trump era just as some are trying to stir up new trouble for this administration. all that and more when ""deadline: white house"" continues after the break. ""deadline: white house"" continues after the break. - 15 or more headache days a month, ...each lasting 4 hours or more. botox® prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine. so, if you haven't tried botox® for your chronic migraine,

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you have just got to be completely honest and true to yourself and to your principles, even though you'll have to tell people some things that may be inconvenient truths. an inconvenient truth might put you at odds with people but you just have to be honest and true to yourself and not be afraid of the consequences. once you're afraid of the consequences of telling the truth, you are done. >> a lesson in leadership from dr. fauci this morning, emphasizing the need to tell the truth, even if it's not what people want to hear. it's a lesson seemingly lost on fox news personality tucker carlson who is peddling false anti-vaxxer talking points to an audience of millions at a time when polls suggest that nearly half of trump's supporters will

not get the covid vaccine. listen. >> the administration would like you to take this vaccine. joe biden told you last week, if you don't, you can't celebrate the fourth of july. it turns out there are things we don't know about the effects of this vaccine. >> there are a lot of things tucker carlson is. i saw him in a little box watching the speech. joe biden did not say that. joining our conversation, tim miller, former communications director for jeb bush's presidential campaign and dr. hotez from texas children's hospital, author of the new book "preventing the next pandemic." dr. hotez, you have been going into the belly of the disinformation beast. i know from scientists and doctors, public health officials, the one variable that no one saw coming was how poisoned and misinformed a large bloc of our population would be. does it worry you that that is

ongoing? >> well, i hate to say i told you so, but i knew it was coming because it really came out of texas, unfortunately. so this really accelerated in 2015. the anti-vaccine movement, which had been based on claiming vaccines cause autism and that never went entirely away and i spent a lot of time debunking this, took this very odd pivot to political extremism on the far right to the tea party. and really amplified in texas, beginning around 2015, around the time that the president announced his campaign. whether or not it was because of it or in spite of it, hard to know. but it latched onto the tea party under this banner of health freedom, medical freedom, and we started to see large numbers of kids in texas denied access to their vaccinations. parents saying you can't tell us what to do with our kids. and this spawned the version 2.0 of the anti-vaccine movement

very much linked to the republican party. and then expanded across the united states. and in 2020, what it did was it went from an anti-vaccine movement to the full-on anti-science movement when it campaigned against masks and social distancing and that's why you saw covid-19 accelerate in the southern states in the summer and then in the midwest in the fall. so this is what we're dealing with now. a full-on anti-science movement which has become front and center of the republican party despite my best efforts to try to contain it. this is what we're dealing with. >> tim, you spent more time in the right wing information -- i don't even know what to call it. it's not an ecosystem because there's no oxygen and no light but i wonder what you think the point is. i want to put up the margins by which trump won in 2016. 10,000 voters in michigan.

22,000 in wisconsin. 44,000 in pennsylvania. this time, the closest margins by which he lost, arizona, about 10,000. georgia about 12,000. wisconsin, 20,000. my point is, he should be very interested in keeping all their voters alive. >> look, nicolle, i think tucker is less concerned about that, to be honest. and it makes me upset, right? it isn't just his viewers that get harmed by this. it's the people in their community. the sooner that we get more people vaccinated, the quicker we'll be able to get out of this and get back to normal, which is what everybody on fox is pretending like they want in the first place. we have to choose between the red buttons. choose between, i want the economy opened and the -- and i -- or i want the vaccine, right? like those two things go together. and so this anti-vaxxer nonsense that tucker is peddling is because a lot of the viewers

believe it. and that's what just makes me so upset, right? it's like, what is tucker getting out of this? like what -- a little bit extra nice ratings one week? a few more viewers than he had last week? i mean, it's not as if he's not getting the vaccine. he hasn't said this. it is just this sense of a grievement that a rich, multimillionaire who has this massive platform, he has to be the contrarian and put his own viewers' lives at risk. it's a mark of a bad person and it's really enraging and you are seeing the real ramifications of this if you look at -- i know the doctor will have more expertise on this. if you look at where you're starting to see vaccine availability. here in california, in the red counties is where you're starting to see vaccine availability because the people who are allowed to go get it

right now based on the rules set by the state, some of them aren't doing it. >> well, and the sources of information lay over perfectly. it's not a hypothesis. it bears out in the data, dr. hotez, that people who get their information from fox news and describe themselves as republican men who support donald trump are now one of the biggest groups of vaccine hesitant people. and i want them to be protected for the safety and health of themselves and their families, but i also want them to be protected for those that live in my community. can you beat the virus if that big of a chunk of the population doesn't get vaccinated? >> no, unfortunately, with the new variants, particularly this one from the united kingdom, the b.1.1.7. variant that's accelerating now in the united states and up to 50% of the virus isolates now in texas, florida and georgia -- obviously, all red states -- are

now the b.1.1.7. variant. we know it's much more transmissible. and what that means is when the reproductive number of the virus goes up it means you have to vaccinate a higher percentage of the population in order to squelch its transmission. so the numbers we were throwing out earlier, 60% to 70% of the u.s. population needs to be vaccinated, now, unfortunately, the bar is raised. it's 80% to 90%. and that means we're going to need the vaccinate almost every adult and lots of adolescents as well. and so when you have a whole contingent of the country deliberately defiant of masks, social distancing and vaccines, it's going to make this very tough. and so one of the things i've been doing now which is interesting, i've been going on conservative news outlets trying to go back on fox and a couple of times and newsmax and the others and to do whatever i can to convince people to get vaccinated and why this will save their lives. it's been tough, though.

>> how is that? what do they ask you? >> well, you know, one of the -- a couple of times this has come up. there's this straw man that's been created around mandates. you know, they are very concerned that the government is going to mandate vaccines or bring in the u.s. military or the national guard to force people to vaccinate. and i say -- again, this comes out of the health freedom, medical freedom nonsense, that accelerated in 2015. we don't even have the vaccines to even think about mandates. no one is talking about mandates, and if you have enough time, you can talk people off the ledge and get them to understand, but it's -- i'm up against, you know, who am i? i'm a medical school professor and an academic against massive disinformation campaign that's unfortunately now brought in the murdoch media empire and the russian government which is now using this to divide our country further. the u.s. and british

intelligence that reported a whole system of weaponized health information or weaponized health communication. so these are formidable opponents. what we're dealing with now is really a full-on anti-science, i don't know what you want to call it confederacy or empire that dominates our internet and is even globalizing now. so this is as potent a force to deal with, i contend as nuclear proliferation or global terrorism because it's infiltrating into europe, into africa. it's going to be a major reason why we won't be able to halt this pandemic. >> it's amazing. it's amazing listening to you talk to think about all the damage donald trump got and getting his own vaccine in secret. it's remarkable. it's a story we'll stay on top of. dr. peter hotez, thank you for spending time with us. tim is sticking around. up next, the white house wants you to know president

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and call pg&e right after so we can both respond out and keep the public safe. president biden is in pennsylvania today talking to small business owners there about the real-world benefits of his $1.9 trillion relief bill headlining his administration's massive swing state tour this week. vice president kamala harris and

second gentleman doug emhoff are touting the bill to businesses in denver today. the first lady, dr. jill biden, and her strategic assignment and natural forte, schools, underskoeg the part of the bill's nearly $170 billion allotment for schools. that's going to help get kids back into classrooms safely with federal dollars that could fund additional staff and cdc-recommended ventilation systems and ppe for everyone. let's bring into this conversation the white house reporter for "the washington post" and nbc news correspondent heidi przybyla who is in south carolina at a school district which has reopened. heidi, talk to me about -- you've got this ground reality about what schools have dealt with that's totally divorced from political conversation. talk about what schools are contending with. >> it gives them what they need, nicolle, which is a lot of money. i'm told that actually a lot of the poorer school districts are going to do pretty well in this

bill. let's break down what the problems are. look at the six feet distancing requirement. it may change but right now this is one of the things the schools tell me is problematic. where are they going to put all the children who want to come back to class? then you're talking about building out tent space or trailers. this school behind me, they cut 60 miles worth of plexiglas in order to have their children three feet together. and the c.o.o. said that was critical. they have, for instance, a fog machine they take through the classrooms to put hydrogen peroxide into the air every night. this is very labor intensive. strict protocols. they say you have to do it in a phased approach. a lot of it, nicolle, is really dilapidated infrastructure. we've covered that extensively on your show. the ventilation systems are really outdated in a lot of these schools. they are going to have to buy new filters. this school district here has newer buildings and they still bought 50,000 filters. when you don't have that, then

you're talking about buying additional devices like hepa filters. all of that adds up and i didn't even get to the issue of hiring additional teachers to address those learning gaps which are significant. >> you know, everything that heidi is describing has been reporting on, matt, is the reality for all americans, regardless of their political association. everyone with kids would love to have them back in a classroom, the teachers better at teaching than any parent. i'll speak for myself. it's better than teaching than i am. and this push by dr. biden seems to be totally devoid of politics but focused on what this bill is, which is really -- it's really granular, really specific and it's stuff that everybody who is worried about teachers and kids in classrooms can appreciate and understand. >> yeah, and you are seeing her out a lot. and pretty active as first lady in general. it's sort of -- it's reprising a

role she had during the campaign, which is really what the white house feels is one of her husband's best advocates. she has experience. she's taught in delaware public schools. she's still teaching at a community college in northern virginia. so she has a lot of experience in the classroom and so you're seeing her go to classrooms. and sort of talk on a personal level about what is needed in order to get kids back to school. and it personalizes it. and i think that is what the biden white house is trying to do with a lot of their selling of this plan. it's personalizing a lot of the attributes of what was passed just recently with the $1.9 trillion package. and schools is sort of the most direct thing that i think people will feel. whether schools can reopen, whether they can be back five days a week in person here quickly. and that's what biden is committed to, and that's what i

think he will be judged on, success or failure, on if people sort of feel a direct impact of this legislation and as heidi was pointing out, of the direct infusion of money into schools to improve their conditions. >> you alluded to this, but i want to take it on. there's some indication the cdc may change the guidance from six feet to three. a lot of the things you've covered are not things that even a big wonderful check in the mail can be remedied overnight. you have covered the ventilation systems. i wonder what the sort of mindset is of schools. even with funds in hand, are they now confident they can make these infrastructure changes knowing they have the funds in hand? are they just inspired by sort of the straight talk? there was some reporting in "the washington post" that one of the three documents the trump administration had sort of mischaracterized was downplaying the risk of opening schools before we had much information.

what do school administrators and principals and teachers say they feel right now about the change in leadership? >> they are glad the cdc, under joe biden, finally came out and gave some guidelines but that's just what they are. they're guidelines, not requirements. they're trying to sift through this. this is why i came to charleston is because this is a school that's been open since september with pretty low transmission rates. and i know based on my reporting there's a lot of schools that are confused and are concerned at this time because here's the thing. yes, the previous studies that we are looking at from the cdc found low rates of transmission in schools, but these were under certain circumstances where there was a lot of mitigation going on and they were importantly pre-variant. we're now in a different phase here. we have more new -- newer, more contagious and more harmful variants circulating. that makes it all the more important to get it out about what the mitigation structure is that you need in place because

even here, nicolle, the people who have been so successful are in a certain sense victims of that success because there are already parents and even some school leaders, if you can believe that, who are saying things are going so well with vaccinations. why don't we just drop these protocols in the fall, even though we don't have a plan yet to vaccinate the children. >> it's amazing. we'll stay on this. thanks for spending some time with us today. when we come back, despite what he says was intense pressure from the trump administration, alexander vindman is finally getting his promotion to full colonel.

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and why do you have confidence that you can do that and tell your dad not to worry? >> congressman, because this is america. this is the country i've served and defended, that all of my brothers have served and here, right matters. >> right matters. if only. mere days affluent colonel alexander vindman uttered those words, he and his twin brother were fired simply because they raised concerns about donald trump's dealings with ukraine. they spoke up when they saw injustice and were literally escorted from the white house. fast forward to today. this afternoon. yevgeny vindman confirming reporting that the army is set to promote him to full colonel.

trump loyalists seem equally intent on wronging the rights of the current administration and white house particularly when they have to do with politicizing the military. after fox news host tucker carlson suggested last week that the u.s. military wasn't masculine enough because it made accommodations for pregnant troops, the pentagon defended all americans in uniform, but that was too much for little ted cruz who, let's not forget, helped incite the insurrection two months ago. the texas senator wrote in a statement, quote, under biden, the military is launching political attacks to intimidate tucker carlson and other civilians who criticize their policy decisions. we're back with elizabeth neumann and tim miller. tim, it strikes me and i'll have to go check my memory, but i don't really remember a statement that forceful defending his father from donald trump or his wife. >> well, look, nicole, i just, you know, sometimes with this faux masculinity schtick from ted cruz and tucker carlson,

it's too much to take. these guys don't have a single blister on their thumb, not like i do either, but you know, i haven't seen them fighting in the military or throwing any punches and yet they've got to just sort of do this performative masculine bravado and it's, you know, it's nonsense. but you know, it's what i think they think appeals. it worked for donald trump, right? it's all performative. they think it appeals to the maga audience. you showed that clip of alexander vindman, which i thought of once we finally defeated donald trump and once joe biden had won and of that moment agent here, right mattering, and here are two guys that have actually put themselves on the line for the country and did kind of show those traditional masculine values of selflessness, of, you know, putting yourself at risk for something greater than yourself, something that ted cruz and tucker carlson wouldn't understand and i just -- it makes me so happy that yevgeny

is being promoted and that right is being righted because of all the terrible things trump did, one of the cruellest was the idea of perp walking this person that had, you know, sacrificed for the country, that had served the country, an immigrant, just for a political grievance against his brother and it was so pathetic and i'm just so happy for the vindmans. >> elizabeth, one of the things that's clear from the intelligence assessment that comes out is that what trump was doing by trying to use the ukrainians to smear joe biden was very much in concert with the russian disinformation campaign to smear joe biden and his family, and to see one of the central figures from impeachment, which i think it's fair to say trump got off, got off scot-free, because republican senators didn't have the spine to do the right thing, right, didn't matter to the gop senators at the time, didn't matter to them this year either. but what do you make of sort of the wheels of government trying

to right some of those wrongs? >> you know, much like what tim said, it actually brings a smile to your face that justice is slowly but surely happening and righting the wrongs that were done to the vindmans and i still hope -- i have no knowledge, but i hope that there are good people in the justice department looking at some of the claims that mueller found and i was having a conversation with a family member the other day. the mueller report did not vindicate the president. it just basically said, we can't do anything because he's the president. there's more information that's coming out, and i wonder if a case could be made, if not directly tying the line to trump, to some of his associates. there is something off about the relationship with russia, and for the sake of our national security moving forward, people need to be held to account. we need justice. the justice system, which

sometimes, you know, rightly needs to move slow, but i hope that they are doing the due diligence and holding people to account for the many wrongs, especially as it pertained to abusing classified information, abusing our foreign partners and relationships for the sake of his ego and political gain. he needs to be held accountable for that. >> and when elizabeth neumann talks, people in the national security world listen, so we'll stay on that with you. elizabeth neumann, tim miller, thank you so much for spending some time with us this hour. the next hour of "deadline white house" starts after a quick break. don't go anywhere. we are just getting started. don't go anywhere. we are just getting started.

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if you see wires down, treat them all as if they're hot and energized. stay away from any downed wire, call 911, and call pg&e right after so we can both respond out and keep the public safe. there's no foreign power that is flipping votes. there's no domestic actor flipping votes. i did it right. we did it right.

this was a secure election. >> hi again, everyone. it's 5:00 in the east. i know, i know, we've played that comment by chris krebs, donald trump's former top cybersecurity official many times on this broadcast but it bears repeating today because the wave of disinformation about the election peddled by trump and his supporters has taken root in the minds of millions of americans. it ultimately led to a deadly insurrection at the capitol. now, a pair of government reports released this afternoon confirms what chris krebs was fired by trump for saying and what he said there. it also puts a nail in the coffin of the big lie spread for months by trump and his allies, a report released by u.s. intelligence agencies states this. quote, we have no indications that any foreign actor attempted to alter any technical aspect of the voting process in the 2020 u.s. elections, including voter registration, casting ballots, vote tabulation, or reporting results, and there's this from

the justice department and dhs, which includes intelligence from the agency that krebs once led. quote, the department's investigated multiple public claims that one or more foreign governments owned, directed, or controlled election infrastructure used in the 2020 federal elections, implemented a scheme to manipulate election infrastructure, or tallied, changed or otherwise manipulated vote counts. the departments found that those claims were not credible. the federal government putting the lie to donald trump's claims is where we start this hour. chris krebs, former director of the cybersecurity and infrastructure security agency at dhs during the trump administration's here. also joining us, msnbc national security analyst frank figliuzzi, former assistant director at the fbi for counterintelligence. chris, start with you. your reaction to these two reports. >> do i open this now or later? when do we open this? >> well, tell me why you're -- you know what? if you're going to do that, i'm

going to do this. let me show you the lies told about the job you did. let me show you some of the disinformation. >> we're using a foreign company that is owned by venezuelans who are close to -- were close to chavez, are now close to maduro, have a history -- they were founded as a company to fix elections. >> what we are really dealing with here and uncovering more by the day is the massive influence of communist money through venezuela, cuba, and likely china in the interference with our elections here in the united states. >> the president's lawyers alleging a company called dominion, which they say started in venezuela with cuban money and with the assistance of smartmatic software, a back door is capable of flipping votes. >> so, since you were adequately

armed with appropriate beverage to watch that, i'll let you respond. >> you know, it is -- it's great to see that, in the black and white terms, that last paragraph you read out of the dhs, the 1-b report, keeping in mind the executive order signed prior to the 2018 election, there are two reports. the first was the one you referenced from the director of national intelligence, that's the 1-a report that has the intelligence analysis of any sort of interference attempts. that 1-b report was by d.o.j. and the fbi and dhs and sisa and it measured effectively any impacts on the election and as you said, and as that report clearly states, there was no vote flipping. there was no crack-in. there was no hammer. there was no scorecard. i could go on and on. these are the things that we were saying in october, november, and december, and yet, the cacophony of voices from the right and the former president's

supporters that led up ultimately to january 6th, they were flatout -- that was fake news. >> so, chris, i'm going to need you to go on and on, because we now have a situation where the disinformation forces among some americans are stronger than the facts, and the four years-long smear campaign against what trump described a deep state. he happened to lead the deep state, but that never stopped him, has taken root. how do you take actual information and use it to combat disinformation? >> well, you know, i think the -- maybe the one guy that's more -- that's happier than i am right now is the ceo of dominion voting systems. that information in the 1-b report is as authoritative as you can get in terms of debunking the claims by powell and wood and others so that certainly supports his attempts to hold them accountable.

and that's what we have to do. now, my concern, more broadly, is that the damage has been done. the courts, the wheels of justice turn a little too slowly, i think, to make sure that the confidence in our election processes and systems can be maintained, so we've -- you know, when you got a guy that's got 80 million followers on twitter that's throwing this stuff around, that's really hard to overcome and i think that's the challenge that we're going to have to focus on. >> are you speaking about all of the efforts to roll back access to voting and voter suppression efforts by republican legislatures all across the country based on a lie that we now have further evidence in these two reports is just that, a lie? >> i think that's certainly part of it. i know down in georgia, for instance, there were some early attempts in the senate, the georgia senate, to introduce legislation that would remove dominion systems from the counties. you see what's going on in --

out in arizona with the senate subpoenaing the maricopa county election board for access to ballots and systems and without a real plan and in fact they were going to use, by all reports that i saw at least, they were going to use the same team that conducted a half-baked report up in michigan, so this is just, you know, i've said it before on your show. this is performative politics. this is the -- the bus is being driven by the base and the elected officials are on board with it, and they've got to be on stage and they've got to be performing to whatever the base wants them to do. >> are you concerned, chris, by what it reveals about ratcliffe's role as not being an honest broker. i think we all knew he wasn't an honest broker when it came to our intelligence agencies but he wrote an op-ed describing china as the greatest threat.

the intelligence report details the nature of the russian effort and it's clear, christopher wray testified publicly to it, donald trump came out and attacked him the next day, but he had his man at odni, ratcliffe, carrying the company line. how dangerous is that in hindsight? >> so, when i looked at the 1-a report from today and the 1-b report as well, you know, there was not a lot in there that surprised me. it was all consistent with my understanding. it was consistent with the information that we released to the american people, whether it was iranian activities, whether it was proxy efforts by russian, you know, agents acting on behalf of the fsb, and yes, there were chinese, broader attempts and as they have always done, to influence our politics. one of my friends at the nsa at the time, he was the cyber coordinator, said, you know, russia is the hurricane, and china is climate change, and so

when we think about interference and influence in our democracy, russia has these really brazen, high-impact, high-visibility efforts. meanwhile, in the background, china's playing a much slower, quieter game that, in the broader sense of things, i do think as a national security geopolitical threat that china is the number one and -- but russia's right behind them. >> i want to read to you, frank figliuzzi, some of what we learned publicly as a public, and again, this was all information available to donald trump and mr. ratcliffe ostensibly but made available to us for the first time today. i want to dive into some of this with you, frank. a key element of moscow's strategy this election cycle was its use of people linked to russian intelligence to launder influence narratives including misleading allegations against president biden through u.s. media organizations, u.s. officials, and prominent u.s. individuals, some of whom were close to former president trump

and his administration. and i want to read a little bit more about what those narratives were. the primary effort the intelligence community uncovered revolved around a narrative that russian actors began spreading as early as 2014, alleging corrupt ties between president biden, his family, and other u.s. officials in ukraine. the entire effort to knock biden out of the presidential campaign that donald trump tried to sort of enlist john bolton and successfully enlisted rudy giuliani and other hatchetmen in was an ongoing russian smear campaign commenced in 2014, frank. is that the right read of that? >> yeah, you're reading it correctly and i'll tell you what, there's a lot to unpack in this very concise overview of this report. and you're right to key in on a couple things. first, that trump and his administration had complete access to this intelligence.

they were suppressing it. they weren't letting it out. and also, it wasn't just that russia, at putin's direction, with putin's knowledge, was directing and supporting a campaign to back trump. that would be bad enough. but they were doing it, part and parcel of that campaign, was to go after joe biden and his family. it was a scorched-earth, no holds barred, we're going after his family, we're going to besmirch him, we're going to denigrate him. this is, you know, you talk about dirty politics. this is dirty geopolitics on a national and national security level. and i think one of the great takeaways that a couple of 30,000-foot takeaways i have after reviewing the reports today, first, we won. if you look at this as a career intelligence professional, you know, i got up every day trying to detect, deter and defeat the foreign adversary and the threat to the united states. we won, collectively, the u.s. voters and people like chris

krebs and his team collectively defeated a significant foreign power, and got our democracy back on track. but it was a narrow victory. there's no rest for the weary, because this doesn't stop with this. it will keep coming. it is the new battlefield. and then, secondly, all of the people who just regurgitated every day and every night and, by the way, still do it every night on cable television, this mantra of russian propaganda, they're not just liars now. now we have to call them what they are. they are russian assets when they regurgitate the lies that they know come from the russian intelligence service. >> well, let's name names, because the intelligence community does. frank figliuzzi, they write this. a network of ukraine-linked individuals including russian influence agent constantine kilimnik, remember him from the mueller investigation, who are also connected to the russian federal security service took

steps throughout the election cycle to damage u.s. ties to ukraine, denigrate president biden, and his candidacy, and benefit former president trump's prospects for re-election. we assessed this network also sought to discredit the obama administration by emphasizing accusations of corruption by u.s. officials and to falsely blame ukraine for interfering in the 2016 u.s. presidential election. i'm sorry, all of that came out of the mouths of american members of congress during the impeachment trial. should we go back and trace the puppeting or the puppet strings being pulled between russian disinformation and the things said by american members of congress? >> yeah, we may have even discussed on this show, nicole, that i am not one of those people who says, for the good of the country, we need to let this one go. let bygones be bygones. that's not me. i'm about getting to the facts. i'm about exposing the truth. getting some sunshine on this so that it doesn't happen again or

at least we mitigate the risk that it will ever happen again, and here's what worries me. there are several references throughout the reports today to something bigger than just the campaign. that gets my attention. there's some subtle reference there that the russians were -- this wasn't just about getting trump elected. they had -- they were backing others. they were backing others. they were trying to help a party. they were trying to hurt another party. there's more to this, and until we get this out in the sunshine, we're not going to know the truth here. >> i want to name one more name because he has ties to an american senator we talk about a lot on this program. the intelligence community writes that we assessed that president putin and other senior russian officials were aware of and probably directed russia's influence operations against the 2020 u.s. presidential elections. for example, we assess that putin had purview over the activities of andre durkoc, a

ukrainian legislator. he has ties to russian officials as well as russia's intelligence services. i'm going to read you this article from the milwaukee journal sentinel. president donald trump's administration slapped sanctions, including a former diplomat who met with u.s. senator ron johnson in 2019. ron johnson was talking to someone named by the intelligence communities as being a disseminator of russian intelligence sourced disinformation against joe biden. >> look, every time we see someone like ron johnson now regurgitating this -- >> i want to hear from both of you. frank first. >> yeah, go ahead, frank. >> i'm going to -- yeah, chris, i'm just going to call it what it is. these people now are on notice, right? they knew quietly. now it's out in the open. so, when they -- people like senator johnson start regurgitating this stuff, just say, russia.

just say, russian asset. you know, why are you saying something we now know is not only fake but it's our adversary telling you to say it? why are you doing that? and it's going to continue, nicole. it's not just this. understand that even as we speak, russia and their intelligence services are trying to undermine what we think about the covid vaccine. this just keeps going and so when you see people questioning the effectiveness of the vaccine, you've got to go, wait a minute. wait a minute. haven't i -- haven't i seen that in some russian propaganda campaign? >> yeah, and i mean, chris, just jump in on this. just explain to me the incentive structure for ron johnson and if you're taking the covid disinformation as an extension of that, tucker carlson, what is the incentive structure to be parroting russian disinformation? >> when you think durkoch specifically, he was sanctioned by the treasury department, a

known actor. senators, members of the house of representatives were all briefed. he was a known actor, a known quantity. if you recall back in december, i had testified in front of congress, it was in elections irregularities hearing in the senate homeland security, it was, i believe, chairman johnson, his last appearance or, you know, with the gavel in that committee, and he had a rather heated back and forth with the ranking member, gary peters, and it was a lot of it was about this information that was passed into -- to various senators from derkach and you got to look at what they were sharing, why they were sharing it, and then you look at how that kind of led up to january 6th and then to your broader point, what's the bigger strategic objective, not just of derkach but of the russians. what are they really trying to accomplish here? and that goes to frank's point about the 1-a report, about something bigger.

it was never just about an election. their strategic objectives are much broader than the next guy that wins the next election. they're in a generational struggle just for their own existence. look at navalny, look at what's happening in russia right now. they are trying to put us in a position where we have our own internal conflicts, where we don't have the ability to engage on a global stage, where we can't be that beacon of hope and light in the world, where democracy is not just fragile, it's failing. that's, you know, that's what's happening here. and to frank's point, we did win. but damn, that was close. and i don't want it to be that close again. we've got a lot of work to do before '22 and before '24. >> well, when you read these reports, it's kind of amazing that we won. it's amazing that the russian choice didn't prevail, and i just have to ask you to pull

some of this together, ask both of you for your answer on this. where do we go from a point where we read about an adversary's attack on our system of information and on their desire to denigrate joe biden, going back to 2014, cosigned by donald trump, carried out and as you said, chris, coming way too close for comfort and succeeding. you've still got some of the allies of this operation, one in the senate, i think rudy giuliani engaged in a lot of the activities described here. what is the future of the country if people are in positions of influence and power spreading messages designed to advance russia's attack on our country? >> well, so, for one, you've got the ballot box. '22 is coming. we are -- think about it. a year from now, we're going to

be in primary season. if that doesn't make your back hurt, then i don't know what would, but we are -- we're still in a political cycle, so we're, you know, there's going to be another senate cohort that goes through. every seat in the house. and you think about that 130 or whatever it was that voted to overturn the results, i mean, they're all square targets for either primarying or ultimately on the other side in november. so, that's, you know, that is the traditional cycle. but in the meantime, we have got to hold these people accountable. we have to continue putting pressure on corporate -- the corporate money, the pacs that have temporarily suspended contributing to the sedition caucus or whatever they're calling it. we got to keep that pressure up through at least the '22 cycle and see what happens next. but you know, i saw something on twitter, i think, this morning,

and it was talking about representative kinzinger -- god, i always get that wrong -- but the point is, you know, are we -- is the gop right now, is it redeemable? can it be saved, or is it too far gone? and i think the betting money is on it being too far gone, and so what happens with the rest of us, you and me, nicole, that have been left behind? >> i may -- we had reagan democrats. i think i'm a biden republican. frank figliuzzi, i want to ask you. you've done so much of this explaining for us about the russian side. what does this tell us about the russian side? it seems that they're very much on offense four years after the brazen attack of 2016 based on this read of this report today. >> yeah, i mean, first, we -- so there's good news here. the report confirms the who. who did it to us. it's russia. the what, they attacked the election. but we don't know the why, and

that gets to the heart of what makes vladimir putin tick and what makes russia tick. why is this backing of trump so important to them? what is that relationship? why do they think they control trump? it's not his brilliant foreign policy. it's not some brand-new approach to things. it's something else. and you know, you want to talk about putin. there's lots of buzz in the intelligence community right now, nicole, that we're looking at a very unstable russia in the days, weeks, and months ahead. that putin is concerned. that his own security services are questioning him and not following directions, and may be off doing their own thing right now. it's hard to even attribute certain attacks, both physical and cyber, to him and whether he knows about it or not. and so, you're seeing someone cornered, unstable, grasping for power, lashing out at any adversaries, don't be surprised if you see him lashing out at his own intelligence service

leaders. the oligarchs have had it with him. the sanctions are hurting them. it's painful for them to be a friend of putin. so, stay tuned for more instability, more threats from russia. >> cornered and unstable sounds familiar. i know someone he can call. chris krebs, frank figliuzzi, thank you so much for starting us off and helping us just start to understand what's in these brand-new reports. i'm really grateful. when we return, trump's big lie about the 2020 election has led to an all-out assault on voting rights by republicans all across this country. now, as we've been discussing, pressure is mounting on big corporations to help push back. that's next. and later, as a manhattan d.a. ramps up his investigation into trump, a lawyer for the ex-daughter-in-law of trump's long-time money man says she's not only cooperating but she refuses to be silences. "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. onnues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. [sfx: rainstorm] ♪♪ comfort in the extreme.

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pressure is mounting on republicans for their all-out assault on voting rights. private companies are now starting to have their feet held to the fire. as a result, they're, quote, expressing concern over the gop-led effort to make voting harder in the wake of the party's 2020 losses. in georgia, civil rights groups are targeting major companies based in the state, including coca-cola, aflac, delta airlines, home depot, and u.p.s. to come out against the legislation and stop donating to those members who sponsor the restrictive bills. georgia is not alone in its efforts. 22 of the 24 states with republican-led legislatures are currently pursuing measures that

would restrict voting access, including in texas where nbc news is reporting this. quote, more than two dozen gop sponsors elections bills are under consideration in the legislature as lawmakers seek to tighten i.d. requirements and voter rolls, limit early voting and up the penalties for errors. broad interest and a mandate from the governor to prioritize election legislation makes changes to texas's election law likely this year. "washington post" calls out texas, describing it texas republicans' war on democracy this way. quote, declining to purge people from voting lists is not forcing people to the polls. neither is sending out absentee voting applications keeping voting locations open, allowing ballot drop boxes permitting drive-thru voting. the primary quality many republican officials, not all, but a disturbingly large number appear interested in cultivating is a preference for republican

candidates. this should only steel voter determination. joining us now eddie gilad, an msnbc contributor and our friend a.b. stoddard is back. greg, as with every political wave this year, it all starts in georgia. tell us what's going on there. >> well, in georgia, there's dozens of pieces of legislation introduced and about a dozen that are still -- have some sort of traction in the legislature, but overall, there are proposals that would restrict voting, limit who can cast ballots by mail, roll back ballot drop boxes and as you mentioned, there's a real pressure on georgia corporations to take a stand, because in 2016, georgia's corporate elite had a big say over religious liberty legislation that critics saw as discriminatory and ended up helping to convince the governor

at the time to veto that legislation but lawmakers also saw what happened when delta waded into a gun rights debate and state legislators quickly ended a lucrative jet fuel tax break that would have benefitted the company about $35 million a year so right now, i see the companies in georgia as tiptoeing into the debate. they're talking about being equitable and fair. most are not specifically opposing some of these voting rights restrictions in a way that critics want them to. >> well, do you think that the people making the decisions at the companies understand that these are based on a debunked lie and there are two new reports out today that show there was no voter fraud. jimmy carter and james baker looked at this up to the 2000 election. it is a republican mission in search of a problem. there is no voter fraud to solve at a systemic and widespread level. >> yeah, i think some of these companies saw that delta example from just two years ago, just three years ago, i should say,

in 2018, as a cautionary tale, because delta was so thoroughly punished in georgia for taking a stand on gun control. and also, i think part of it is that these companies know or they at least expect the legislation moving through the legislature in georgia to dramatically be changed by the time it gets to the governor's desk, so they're a lot, i think, more wary of taking more specific stance so right now there's a lot of wishy-washy sort of language and advocates are staging die-ins and they're threatening boycotts and they want a more strident stance. >> and stacey abrams, i think, was the one, a.b. stoddard, who moved this fight into the commercial sector and really put companies on notice. i want to read something that you write about stacey abrams. the losses on january 5th for loeffler and david purdue even more so than biden's win in

november underscore for republicans the progress abrams had made in cultivating a broader, more energized electorate. i think her power, her enduring power is now this universal sort of advocate for access to voting, and everyone on the other side of it is for restricting access to voting. that is an even bigger loser for republicans going forward. >> you know, it's amazing because there are actual studies that show that every time you try to restrict access to voting, it inspires more voter education and voter registration and voter turnout. so, stacey abrams's record between 2018 when she lost the governor's race and 2020 of registering more than 800,000 voters and educating them on where to go and how to get their ballots across the finish line, and then just between november and january, what she did to register even more, thousands more, and get a whole different

coalition, a whole different electorate out for runoff election, traditionally republicans have won handily, actually with each successive one they have done better and better until january 5th. she now has a nationally recognized model of how to do this so there are people in georgia that are obviously very concerned about the legislature's restrictions on voting and what will actually pass into law, but they also, republicans remain intimidated that this could, with further education and registration, still be overpowered by stacey abrams and her movement. >> well, the problem, eddie, isn't stacey abrams and her movement. it's, why isn't this -- why is this a partisan thing? in some ways, it's instructive that republicans are pretending to want everyone to be able to vote, but the republican moves are antithetical to every other indicator in culture, but i think you can buy a car online. i mean, i bought a tent on my

phone that fits three sleeping bags and i was able to -- i mean, the idea that we're going to make it harder, lower tech, less access, more time, more -- i mean, that is so opposite the way everything else in the world is moving, and i wonder what you think about the fact that republicans now in their desperation are saying out loud that it's not about the quantity of votes. it's about the quality of votes. that's what one republican actually said. >> well, nicole, it seems to me that this, again, i've said this on your show. this is old rhetoric. we've heard it before. the country has struggled with being a truly multiracial democracy. the late political theorist from harvard said that america didn't become truly a genuine democracy until the passage of the voting rights act of 1965. and we saw immediately efforts to kind of curtail black votes, right, whether through law or

whether through violence so this is part of -- it's in our genetic make-up as a nation so here we are in this moment. we need to be very clear. this is a choice. it is clear. whether you're going to commit yourself to democracy or you're going to commit yourself to rolling it back. there's no in between. and i want to say this to the moderates, joe manchin, yrsten sinema, there's no moderate position here. if you are going to in some ways try to sit in the middle, you're basically siding with those who want to roll back american democracy. and we just need to be clear about it. the choice is clear. you're either for it or you're against it. there's no in between, nicole. >> well, eddie always goes high. i'm going to go low here. it's also stupid. we do not have a systemic voter fraud problem in this country so anything called election security is fake. it's like diet pills. those are fake too. you eat less. i mean, can you just talk to the sort of the toxic brew of

republican sort of fear mongering up on high and then doing something that is just, i don't know another word, stupid. there isn't a systemic -- bill barr said there is no systemic voter fraud in america. >> i think, nicole, at the end of the day, there are those who are trying to figure out how to play the donald trump playbook, and what is that playbook? you can't expand the electorate by way of the typical actors, so you have to figure out how to attract those disaffected white voters, and the way you do that, you play the cultural wars game. you try to play grievance. you try to play resentment and hatred and fear. this is that playbook, because there's nothing else there. not only are these folks not the sharpest tools in the box, in the cabinet drawer, but they are also trying to figure out how to, in some ways, excite that base who feel, in some ways, betrayed by the browning of america. who feel betrayed by the demographic shifts.

so, it seems stupid, but we saw what happened when donald trump played the card, and so what we find ourselves, especially against the backdrop of the reporting in the first segment, nicole, i mean, this is really an existential crisis for the country as these folks are playing this game. >> yeah. you know, a.b., i think the wonderful thing about "the washington post" op-ed that just describes what they want to roll back. purging voter rolls is not a matter -- what that means is taking out the names of people that have moved and whatnot or died but when you leave them in, it's not like those people vote so that is a red herring. the other big thing is closing up drop boxes. well, if you have, you know, if you're retired or you have a management position or you can just leave the office and go vote in-person, you don't need that drop box, but you look at what the republicans want to do. they're not voter fraud measures. they're deny access measures, straight-up. >> that's what's so interesting

when you use the word "stupid" nicole because any republican not named donald trump did pretty well in the 2020 election. that's why this conspiracy that all the democrats and republicans like brad raffensperger in georgia got together with every member of the media to rig the election so that the republicans would do well before the georgia runoffs in january and pick up a bunch of house seats. it's lunacy. they're -- these measures are, like you said, to limit votes they believe would go to the democrats. both parties should be interested in stopping ineligible voters from voting and helping eligible voters vote. when you cut down the number of places that they can go to vote, the number of hours and days they will have to vote and the number of ways that people can actually get the ballot in, you are trying to cut back on voting. you're trying to limit access to

voting. so, it's not only stupid because big turnout ended up sort of helping them, but they are quite blunt about this. you talked about the arizona official who said, it's not the quantity of votes, it's the quality. i was absolutely staggered to see greg abbott, the governor of texas, actually said this out loud. we must pass laws to prevent election officials from jeopardizing the election process. what he is saying is that brad raffensperger, by doing multiple recounts and audits in a credible process that was totally transparent, jeopardized the process because it didn't turn out the way greg abbott and donald trump wanted it to. when the only person in this country right now under investigation for election fraud is donald trump in georgia. >> it all comes down to georgia, greg bluestein and it's such a good point from a.b. stoddard. the georgia election was administered by republicans, certified republicans, and

recounted by republicans and did not find any systematic or widespread voter fraud. is there any sheepishness about supporting these laws in light of that inconvenient fact for republicans? >> you know, there has been sheepishness, a majority of republicans in georgia still support these changes, they were muscled through by the republican-led legislature, but i will say, you're seeing a little bit of a split among at least a handful of republicans, especially suburban republicans and competitive districts around metro atlanta who took a walk on a vote last week over restrictions that would limit who can vote by mail and the lieutenant governor of georgia, the second most powerful republican in the state, i was in his office during that vote. he watched it on tv rather than reside over that debate. >> it's amazing. greg, i don't think georgia's going to fade from the centering any time soon. we're grateful that you come and talk to us on a regular basis. we need you. eddie glaude and a.b. stoddard, we always need you.

thank you. when we return, new details are emerging about the manhattan d.a.'s investigation into the trump organization, including the former daughter-in-law of trump's long-time accountant, her lawyer now saying she refuses to be silenced. that story's next. she refuses to be silenced that story's next.

if you smell gas, you're too close. leave the structure, call 911, keep people away, and call pg&e right after so we can both respond out and keep the public safe.

if you see wires down, treat them all as if they're hot and energized. stay away from any downed wire, call 911, and call pg&e right after so we can both respond out and keep the public safe. out of all of the many investigations that are currently being conducted into the former guy, manhattan d.a. cy vance's vast look into every

area of trump's finances seems to be the one that experts and even his former fixer, michael cohen, think will cause him the most trouble. in a "new yorker" story last week, sources say the pace of vance's investigation has picked up, quote, dramatically, since trump left the white house and the supreme court granted vance ten years of the former president's tax records. documents that have been kept from investigators and the public for years. the newest look at where the investigation is heading comes from a report in "business insider" which reports that the former daughter-in-law of alan weisselberg, the trump organization's cfo, is now cooperating with prosecutors and, quote, refuses to be silenced. joining us now to explain what refuses to be silenced means in a criminal investigation, andrew weissmann is here, former fbi general counsel. i want to get into the reporting but just from your purge, how significant is it that someone inside the family is cooperating with investigators and prosecutors?

>> it depends what she has to say, but this case is going to be made by having inside witnesses, because donald trump famously did not use email, and i think was probably fairly careful about what he directly said, so having an insider is going to be important. so, the story that jane wrote in the "new yorker" is certainly tantalizing. >> so, let me read a little bit from it. on what she knows and what she saw. jennifer describes her former father-in-law as being in trump's thrall. his whole worth is, does donald like me today? he's obsessed. he has more feelings and adoration for donald than for his wife. asked if alan weisselberg would flip under pressure, she said, i don't know. for donald, it's a business. but for alan, it's a love affair. weisselberg's office door on the

26th floor of trump tower shared a hallway with trump's. jennifer recalled, you walked down the hall, it's allen, donald, allen, donald. they don't do anything separately. allen would know everything. andrew weissmann, does someone who knows everything, who has a love affair, do they take that next step and go to jail to keep all that secret usually, in your experience? >> well, first, it is correct that the chief financial officer is certainly the place to look. it is right to think that he -- if there are financial wrongdoing at the trump organization, he's going to know about it. and in terms of flipping him, you know, you have to sort of say, look, he might really be grateful to donald trump, but you have to remember, he might go to jail, and with the testimony of his -- with the leads of his former daughter-in-law, that article is

also about whether the manhattan district attorney's office is going to be able to make a criminal case on his children, that is, on weisselberg's children, not trump's. so, that's a lot of pressure if they can do that, and the article talks about one specific lead. there may be many others, which has to do with the gifting of a multimillion dollar corporate apartment to jennifer weisselberg and her husband, that is allen weisselberg's son. so there will be a question about whether that was reported on their tax returns. so, i think she's clearly going to be interviewed very carefully by the manhattan district attorney's office for, you know, every piece of evidence that she has, and apparently, she does have physical documents, which is also referred to in that article. >> you know, this reporting, i think, is so intriguing, but also uncomfortable, because you're reminded that this is a

family under scrutiny and it's her, i guess, her ex-husband, so it's her ex-father-in-law. what is the approach, usually, of prosecutors and investigators when it's that dynamic, a family dynamic under scrutiny, under investigation? >> well, you're absolutely right. it reminds me, during the enron investigation, we were confronted with a somewhat similar situation when andrew and his wife, lee, were both involved in criminality. but they're husband and wife. they had young children, and you know, it just feels uncomfortable to pit one against the other. but on the other hand, if they've both engaged in criminality that would normally be prosecuted, you have a job to do, so i think the main thing is you have to make sure that people are actually guilty, that you're confident in the proof that people aren't flipping just

to get out of a jam but actually, you know, are actually admitting things that are truthful. but it is uncomfortable. when you have family members. >> what is your sense, based on this reporting and everything you see, of where this investigation is right now? i now? i mean, jane also has some of that analysis in this piece as well. >> well, as many people have said, you do not bring in these outside experts, whether it's fti, which is an accounting firm, mark pomeranz who left a wonderful law practice to go join this investigation that's been going on for many, many months, if you don't at least feel that there is a lively prospect, you know, if people don't join that to join a loser of an investigation, to use the former president's former terminology. and i also feel like if it's

going to be brought, it's going to be brought under cy vance's watch. that is, he has agreed he's not running for office. one of the nice things about that is it somewhat de-politicizes this because he's not doing it to make a name for himself. >> right. >> but i suggest the time frame, which is that it's going to happen before he leaves office next fall. and i would expect it might be, you know, much sooner than that. >> andrew weissman, thank you for spending some time with us to talk about the new reporting. we're grateful. when we return, as we do every day, we will remember lives well-lived.

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it's the type of memory jim's daughter holds dear. when she was seven or eight, waking up when her father did, at 4:30 in the morning, he'd make her toast. they'd talk. then he'd be off to work. see, jim was legally blind from exposure to agent orange in the vietnam war. he couldn't drive, so he walked miles both ways. to and from his job, as foreman at the va hospital laundry in order to help support his family. that was the through line in jim's life. everything he did is for the good of his wife and children and grandchildren. he never missed one of their concerts or sporting events. he was there without judgment

when his kids needed him most. and after he survived the fight with pancreatic lymphoma, he taught them, by example, how to treasure every moment. more recently, when jim contracted covid-19, of course his primary concern was how everyone else in the family was doing. jim and his wife gayle would have celebrated 50 years this year. but instead of an anniversary celebration, his daughter says, the family started planning a memorial service. jim died in january at the age of 80. he was a family man, mariners fan and the type of person we should all aspire to be. we will be right back. [sfx: rainstorm] ♪♪ comfort in the extreme. ♪♪ the lincoln family of luxury suvs.

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thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these extraordinary times. we're grateful. "the beat" with ari melber starts right now. >> we begin with breaking news. a new intelligence report out today has details on how russia tried to help trump win re-election. we have this report, brand-new. it is from the office of the director of national intelligence overseen by one of these new biden officials, aif ril hans. and it traces the secret to russia's 2020 meddling. it traces it all the way to the top. the goal was supporting trump for the strategy of using