it's 2021. and women are still paid on average $82 cents for every dollar men earn. the pay gap is actually worse for latina native american and black women. it's an important issue and one the white house spotlights today. that's the final thought today. see you tomorrow night at 6:00 p.m. eastern opinion the reidout with joy reid starts now. now. ♪♪ good evening, everyone. okay we have a lot to get to tonight, including the first look inside an hhs facility housing unaccompanied children who have crossed the u.s./mexico border. nbc's gabe gutierrez was the only reporter allowed inside today and he will join me later. plus i'll talk to eric holder, about voting rights and mitch mcconnell's pants on fire

claim that states are not engaging in voters suppress efforts. if can you believe that. but we begin the ridout stont with new developments on monday's mass shooting in boulder, colorado. mourners continue to visit a make shift memorial outside the supermarket where ten people were shot this week. we learn the victims of the senseless killing more about them including a first responder to the incident and the nine individuals killed as they were going about their daily lives. here are some of their family members. >> if you ask anybody she has ever worked with, she would do anything to -- sorry -- she would do anything for them. >> she could light up and make me smile. no you can't see my smile underneath this mask but i'm smiling right now thinking about her. >> if i could give him an award it would be the best dad award because he was, like a dad to the entire neighborhood. one death trickles to so many

people. and to an entire community. >> we're also learning more about the suspect facing ten counts of murder. and the gun or guns used in monday's mass shooting. the alleged gunman is scheduled to make his first court appearance tomorrow. according arrest filings he bought of an assault weapon six days before the shooting on march 16th. police recovered an assault rifle and a handgun inside the supermarket. the denver post-notes the gun purchased by the suspect would have been illegal under boulder's now voided assault weapons ban. a gun like the ruger ar 5 a 6 pistol was banned until march 12th when a judge ruled the city's ban on assault weapons and magazineses with a capacity of more than ten rounds was illegal. colorado state law doesn't define or ban assault weapons. but the state senator who represented boulder is already drafting a bill onto restore colorado city's ability to enact restrictions above and beyond state laws.

the push for reform is also intensified in washington after president biden signalled he could take executive action calling for federal assault wents ban and strengthened barked checks. today vice-president kamala harris reiterated the president's demand for the senate to act. >> this is not about getting rid of the second amendment. it's simply about saying we need reasonable gun safety laws. there is no reason we have assault weapons ohhen the streets of a civil society. they are weapons of desire designed to kill a lot of people quickly. stop pushing the false choice this means everybody is coming after your guns that is not what we're talking about. >> harris said president bide isn't ready to sign the two gun measures that passed the house earlier this month. but puts in place new background checkers requirements for firearms transferred between individuals. the second increases the amount of time for an initial background checkers from three to ten days before a weapon can be transferred to a purchaser. closing the so-called charleston

loophole. those bills face an uncertain path forward in the evenly split senate. in and surprise surprise west virginia senator joe manchin the conservative southern democrat and self-styled senate underboss mo at one point championed a myren gun safety bill that failed as rachel maddow pounted out last night he says he opposes the house bills in the wake of two mass shootings in less than a week. of course he does. also the never ending intransjens ever republicans from who took time out from usual thoughts and prayers for more absurd bad faith on the gun violence. >> like many americans i cherish my right to bear arms in a time when law enforcement response might be uncertain, the need for vulnerable populations to feel safe and be able to protect themselves is more important than ever. >> our friends on the left always want to go straight to gun control as the solution. why don't we look at why this

violence has increased to begin with. notably, there has been extended, systemic attacks on our police and law enforcement professionals. >> there are steps we can take to stop niece crimes. and you know what the steps aren't. the steps aren't disarming law-abiding citizens. >> joining me so jason crow of colorado, vice chair of the gun violence prechgs task force. thank you for being here. let's start with you, congresswoman li congressman for a couple of the things i would love to debunk. let's start with what kamala harris said, vice-president harris talked about the weapons, the ar-15 which you heard a senator claim that if these weapons are restricted people wouldn't be able to protect themselves. these are not the arper light rifle is not what you use to protect your house. be clear if anybody knows anything about guns that's not

what they're for. but vice-president harris called them weapons of war. we understand they are not m had been-16s what other purpose is there for an ar 15 other than killing people? >> yeah, there isn't, joy. >> you're a military. >> that's the bottom line. they're just isn't. i come at this from the -- a perspective of somebody that was raised a hunter. i started hunting when i was 12 i've i've been a gun owner most of my life. i became an army ranger, went to war three times for this country used deer hunting rifles duck hunting rifles and military rifles at war and had them used against me. there is a reason i didn't take my deer hunting rifle to baghdad or afghanistan and didn't take my military assault rifle into the woods to hunt. they are vastly different weapons to do vastly different things. these assault weapons were designed for one thing backup, kill lots of people as quickly as possible.

they are oristicly efficient at doing that. they don't belong in streets, schools and movie theaters, mosques, synagogues. i represent a community that's seen more than its share of mass shootings and it's got to stop. >> well, and thank you. and i'm glad that we have you in particular. because you are a former army ranger some pretended to be but are not. and you actually served. i think it's important. no one is saying -- i grew up in colorado where you searched lots of people had guns. lots hunted this was a common thing np. no one felt they had to take an ar-15 and walk down the street with it or have it around them here is somebody she thought thought she needed to do than lauren hobart. she ohs ten tarksly i would say pornographically displayed these kinds of weapons behind her just for show. let's be clear. she displayed that just to make a point.

she is now unmade that point by taking that background off. that the kind of pormtive, fake, pretending like they do what you did, sir, you served your country and had to use a weapon to protect yourself and to protect other members of your company, she is somebody who is doing it -- pornographically. -- penal saying defund the police ain't causing more violence. don't you think that that kind of sort of pornography around weapons increases violence more than people saying defund the police. >> if there is any sentiment of the last four years it's the words and actions of leaders matter. it's not funny when people are getting killed and hurt. it's never been funny. and you know when you hold a position of influence and power when people listen to you, when you say things when you use guns for political stunts for political theater it results in people getting hurt and killed. that's why it's got to stop.

my relationship with firearms is a very different one than some of my colleagues that use them for political stunts. i have a very somber, serious relationship with firearms. i used to carry them for work. when i did so i was serious. i was focused, disciplined. and it's very different from how it's used by some of these folks. you know, that's the bottom line. but it traces back to what it's about. this is about raising money and making money for these folks. the gun lobby, gun manufacturers have decided to, you know concoct this argument about personal freedom, about protecting your home, and you know, defending against tierney which never was about, by the way, this is a new thing, right. so navy concocted this -- some politicians decide the to raise money jump on the band wagon. and here we have a crisis and can't resolve it. >> people like ted cruz who didn't have the courage to stay in texas when it was freezing

are trying to stand up like they're a national hero trying to protect people is absurd. let me let you listen to ken buck, a colorado representative on the republican side talking about gun control legislation. here he is. >> what are your thoughts on the president now pushing for gun control in the wake of these shootings? >> well, it's a political stunt, when he was a senator and they had an assault weapons ban, the violent crime in the united states went up. people who were unhinged are going to do things that are terrible. and it's horrible and i feel terrible for the family of the police officers and other families of the victims. but this gun control language is political. >> i mean, let's just first of all fact checkers this before i go back to you, congressman. the brennan center put ou information the chart. the violent crime in the united states dropped during the time that the assault weapons ban was in place. you can see it on the chart. down, down, down it goes.

the united states has the highest death rate from guns in the entire -- the 32nd highest death rate from gun in the entire world. it's eight times the death rate to a a similar country canada. a hundred times the death rate in the united kingdom. "the washington post" reports that mass shooting death, the body of research increasingly suggests the 1994 law was effective in reducing mass shootings deaths. let's go to the polls quickly. the majority of americans want gun laws to be more strict, not less strict. republicans think that less so but that always happens when there is a democratic president. and at this point since this is a popular idea to make sure that people who shouldn't be having these weapons who aren't stable enough and mae plan various things can't get them most people want them. in your view should the filibuster be removed in order to make that happen? >> yes, it should. you know, the filibuster has

outlived, outlived any original purpose it might have. and we are obviously well aware of the terrible history of filibuster, preventing civil vits and used post-reconstruction in the jim crow era. that has prevented progress in that regard. but it's now preventing all progress. whether talking about the climate crisis, campaign finance reform, democracy reform, protecting voting rights or addressing the gun crisis. it's got to stop. and, you know, here we are, we have a democratic president in the white house, we have democratic control of the senate and democratic control of the house. if we can't get these things done, then we have a big problem. the filibuster has got to go. it's not used for bipartisanship. it's used under minor democracy and prohibiting progress that would make you are country save safe. >> i wish you could call joe manchin please and talk to him given your background and service to the country maybe he would listen to you. he ain't listening to anybody

else. jason crow, you were just the person we wanted to talk to you tonight. thank you. up next on the ridout voting rights under attack across the country. former attorney general eric holder joins me following his testimony today on what needs to be done to protect and expand those rights. and then there is ted can't kun cruz. he wants fewer people to vote. basically admitting if all eligible voters vote, democrats will win elections for the next 100 years. ted, you're back on our radar and we have not forgotten how you fled your state while your constituents were freezing. and rafael, you are not tonight's absolute worst. the big reveal is coming up. plus vice-president kamala harris is put in charge of addressing the migration issue at the southern border as we've got new pictures from inside a border influx care facility. nb's gabe gutierrez was in the facility today. and he be here to describe what he saw. the ridout continues after this. .

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. states are not engaging in trying to suppress voters whatsoever. this is clearly an effort by one party to rewrite the rules of our political system. >> wow, that was minority leader mitch mcconnell, dismissing democratic legislation that would roll back dra cone on legislation that would sweeping through republican lirpgts across the country. apparently the kentucky senator spent so much time in his cell that he missed the 253 builts in states. targeting black brown and aapi vote he is that the gqp has control. mitch's willful ignorance of the fact of the recurring theme. this native sheevld, alabama born in the 1940s as addison

mitchell mcconnell junior famed the filibuster has no racial history. republican cohorts are mounting a fact-free campaign against a number of popular pieces of legislation, including the for the people act. which would expand voting rights appear roll back the repressive measures that fellow republicans are passing in states. today the senate held the first hearing to assess the dmakts democrats preeminent piece of legislation. eric holder who now leads the democratic redirecting initiative appeared before the committee. >> it seems to me that this is the right time, this is the right act. dealing as i said with that -- that unholy trinitiy of voter suppression, dark money and gerrymandering, these are all things handled by this act and make our electoral system more fair, more responsive and more available to the american people. and that's why i think this bill

should be passed. >> republicans who are better at cutting taxes for the rich than they are at passing meaningful legislation for the working class called this bill a power grap. they are getting backup from west virginia kmkt joe manchin who told reporters he did not want to pass voting legislation along party lines. despite the monthplace possible citizenens people close to president biden are telling axe oh yos that he is feeling bullish what he can accomplish and fully prepared to support the dashing of the senate's filibuster rule to allow dynamics to pass trophy legislation for his party. dig durbin the vote counter for the democrats had this warning to the conservative democrats like manchin skeptical of undoing the jim crow filibuster most prominently used to stop voting rights for black americans and they're trying to convince him to help pass in legislation said durbin. show me the senate can operate

with the bill buster and do things that make the u.s. a better mediation nation. show mean joining me is eric holder chairman of the national democratic redirecting committee. great to see you general holder. >> hello, joy. >> great to see you. let's start with myths. mitch mcconnell claims that the history. your thoughts. >> well, the filibuster was used throughout the 20th century to frustrate the passage of civil rights bills. i mean, that first and foremost. you had to get past a hue in mungous filibuster in 1964 to get the civil rights bill in place. same thing with the voting rights act in 1965 but you can go to earlier versions wore where southern senators, democrats to be fair to filibustered to make sure that the civil rights bills did not become the law of the land. >> dixie kratz to be specific. and it is interesting that that sort of faction has moved right

on into the party of lincoln. what's also interesting is that there are still southern democrats and conservative democrats who are still clinging to the filibuster, a very bad old thing from the old democratic party as you point out. people like joe manchin. there was this quote that joe biden is feeling the rush of history. he feels like he can pass a lot of important legislation including this bill which is now sr 1, got a john louis voting rights act, et cetera. you know joe biden very well. worked with him. how can he feel that optimistic with people like joe margin still clinging to the filibuster? >> well, you know, i think it's early in the game. and at this point we're talking about the filibuster in some ways. in a vacuum. i think once some of this legislation is actually passed by the senate, you know, s 1, hr 4, the john louis voting

advancement bill, perhaps the minimum wage, when it becomes something that is concrete, something that's tangible. and then the question is are you in favor of the filibuster or do you want to do that which is morally right and also politically popular? that is when i think we will i said for a the true test. it doesn't mean that you have to do away with the filibuster. it may be you carve out parts of the filibuster so that this legislation can in fact be passed. so i think as i said, pressure needs to be placed. but we're not near the end of the game at this point. >> but we are at the point in the game when joe margin is saying he will not allow anything to pass unless republicans are on the bill. do you believe having dealt with these -- a lot of the same senators that there are ten republicans who would vote for a bill that would make it easier to vote, because demographically if more people can vote more people of color are coming online as voters, and they don't do so well with people of color. there is no political interest

for them to let more people vote. do you believe there are ten republicans who would in any universe that we live in vote for sr 1? no. and let me be clear when i say pressure will be brought to bear i mean on democrats not on republicans. they made the determination that they can't win elections where more people vote. they made a determination what they're going to do is to try to change the rules. they are happy being a minority party that exercises majority power. and they are okay with that. and so -- i don't expect any pressure to be brought on republicans sufficient to get ten republicans to vote for any of this -- this vote reform legislation. >> yeah, let me listen to one of those republicans here is ted cruz making his argument against the law, against the for the people act. >> this bill is the single most dangerous bill in committee has ever considered. this bill is designed to corrupt the election process permanently

and it is a brazen and shameless power grap by democrats. they do this by instituting a bill that will promote widespread fraud and illegal voting. apparently the democrats have determined that if millions of illegal aliens get to vote, if millions of criminals get to vote that that will benefit democrats because they understand that criminals and illegal aliens are much, much likely to vote for democrats. >> given the fact that ted cruz is a man of color this is probably the most ironic prowhite supremacist argument i heard about voting. what do you make of the fact that someone like ted cruz someone in his own family includes people of color from a latino country would boldly make the argument that the people of color who might be allowed to vote are basically just a bunch of criminals and that the only reason democrats want people to vote is that they think they're going to handout voting cards to the undocumented, who by the way if they become citizens they

shall be able to vote if they're citizens, right? >> joy, this is all about power. it's all about power. . the maintenance, the retention of power. the republicans understand the demographics of changing, that the ideology of the nation is changing and moving away from them. and they're not going to change their programs they're not going to change their policy perspectives. and so the only way in which they can stay competitive in the game is to somehow frustrate the desires of people to vote. people of color. primarily. and so that's what he is talking about. they'll try to say it's about voting fraud. they've been saying this stuff about voter fraud for decades now without any proof that there is any widespread voter fraud. study after study has shown that to be a false claim. nevertheless, it's the foundation for all that they try to do. they say that. but the reality is they are just going to try to maintain hold on to power. >> yeah, i mean i won't even play but cindy hide smith of

mississippi said she had she would be front roe lynching that sunday vote something wrong because sunday is the sabbath. forgetting sunday is the sap sabbath for jewish folks. the argument are so absurd at this point. have you had a conversation yourself with joe manchin or with some of the other conservative democrats who are literally clinging to the filibuster, seemingly they care more about the filibuster and maintaining it, this old jim crow thing than they do about democracy on voting or anything else. >> that's the question that will have to be posed. i think at at later time. and not far from now. do you care more about the filibuster or do you care more about democracy protection? that really is the question. and my hope will be -- and i think the pressure will be brought to bear on those who say they don't want to do something with the filibuster, that there will be a price to pay. and that is just not something that i think democratic senators

ultimately -- ultimately will follow. that's at least my hope. but as i said, the pressure is intensifying. but the pressure will be at its maximum after the bill has passed. >> you know, it's not lost on me that the bill in which john roberts, the chief justice cast the deciding vote to gut the voting rights act, something clarence thomas and others want to delete, he gutted it is the case called shelby versus holder you are the holder in shelby versus holder. can you talk about the aftermath of that and the rush to start nice people the right to vote was vars vast. these states jumped right out there. texas, mississippi, alabama, north carolina, it's like they didn't wait a week. can you just -- scaring is caring purposes. talk about that period and what was done to the right to vote? >> within like a week you know nine states put in place measures that would not have been allowed under the voting rights act of 199o 1965 as

constituted. came up with new restrictions with regard to the necessity for voter id measures, all kinds of ways in which they closed apology placing pl since shelby county 1,700 apology places have been closed, not for any good reason. and they disproportionately in closed in places where there are people of color. voter purges 40% of which happened in states previously covered by the voter rights act. so there's been a whole range of things from poll closures, to discriminatory voter id laws. a whole range of things that have been done and done as you said immediately after the shelby county case. we won't call it shelby county case versus hold they are in count we call it the shelby county case. >> lastly i would love to give advise what would you like to see merrick garland do? because you were an active attorney general filing lawsuits against states trying to deny

votes. what would you like to see in terms of the justice department under mr. garmd do short of the legislation passing? what could could he do. >> well the justice department has got to use what's left of the voting rights act. you have section 2 and be aggressive in going after these discriminatory measures that these states are trying to put in place. to stand up and make a priority. voiter protection one of four priorities i had as attorney general. my hope is that merrick gonld garland with valentina gupta, christian clark at the vivl is civil rights division warrior of our dmkds. we can talk about fill burt, a range of things. what's at risk is american democracy. and everybody has to stand up for that especially people at the united states department of justice. >> indeed. it feels a fundamental thing we shall not be arguing but here we are in 2012 having the debate. eric holder form attorney general of the united states. thank you for being here. i appreciate the opportunity to talk to you. >> transaction thanks for having me. >> cheers and still ahead we are

getting our first look inside one of the facilities being used to house undocumented immigrants at the border. we'll get a live report from the nbc reporter inside that facility today. but first, you know what's coming. it's tonight's absolute worst. stay right there. tonight's abs. stay right there we look up to our heroes. idolizing them. mimicking their every move. and if she counts on the advanced hydration of pedialyte when it matters most... so do we. hydrate like our heroes. ♪♪

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and how if we want its words to truly mean something we must actively work to make them mean something. the late john louis would call that good trouble. and if there is anything worth getting into good trouble over, it's safe guarding the right to vote of every american citizen. from the moment joe biden was declared the victor in the last year election the trump administration did just about everything it could to try to yee kneecap the biden transition team as they prepared to deal with the dumpster firps left at the door. report after report was slow rolling meetings with biden officials. it was underscored how danieling this was to the country. >> i think it is very concerning because it's critically important during periods of administration transitions that there be as much continuity as possible from the standpoint of ensuring that our national

security and homeland security is going to be secured. the fact that the trump administration continues to give the stiff arm to the biden team is i think indicative of their unwillingness to really take the interest of the american people first as opposed to the interests and the pettiness of donald trump. >> and that brings us to what we're seeing play out at the border today. while republicans incorrectly and sinically call it a crisis created by bitd are biding it is narvegt neither a crisis nor did biden create it. while it's a challenge for the biden administration it's one fitting a cyclical pattern for undocumented immigration. of course the newly unemployed florida resident emerged from the golf course dlarpg everything will be i'd fine on the border if biden listensed to me and followed my lead. there is a reason 81 million americans voted for biden and hundreds of innocent children remain separated from parents because of the prior administration trying to use inhumane cruelty as a deterrent.

and new reporting just out from my nbc news colleagues describes how in early december the biden transition team sounded the alarm on the need for more shelter space for migrant children only to have the trump administration sit on hands and do nothing. mind you it wasn't just the biden transition team sounding the alarm at that time. non-political staff also warned of the problem according to u.s. government officials who served in both the trump and biden administration. the official said that it was irresponsible of the trump administration not to listen to us when we were throwing up red flags. it wasn't until just days before president biden's inauguration that his then hhs secretary alex azar finally acted on the request to start looking for space. while biden has to clean up yet another mess left by the previous administration one that could have been avoided. it makes it erds to declare the former president and minimum yan

as tonight's absolute worst. and when we come wab, the first time we'll show you what it looks like inside one of the facilities where migrant kids are being held. we have those images and the nbc reporter who was there coming up next. nbc reporter who was there coming up next [music: “you're the best” by joe esposito] [music: “you're the best” by joe esposito] [triumphantly yells] [ding] don't get mad. get e*trade and take charge of your finances today. this is an athlete, twenty reps deep, sprinting past every leak in our softest, smoothest fabric. she's confident, protected, her strength respected. depend. the only thing stronger than us, is you.

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tonight we're getting the first look inside one of the migrant care facilities in texas for unaccompanied children who crossed the border. after facing growing questions about transparency, the biden administration led a tour with congressional members and an nbc news crew. you can see a number of of the children outside playing soccer. it's only a small glimpse of the nearly 800 minors presently in the facility. meanwhile, earlier today president biden announced that vice-president kamala harris will lead the response to the border challenge. >> but i've asked her, the vp today because she is the most qualified person to do it, to lead our efforts with mexico and the northern triangle.

this new surge we are keeling with flou started with the last administration but it's our responsibility to deal with it humanely and to -- and to stop what's happening. >> joining me now is nbc's gabe gutierrez, the only reporter allowed inside with the delegation. and gabe, i want to get a sense what you saw. i can recall covering the tornl owe facilities when a few reporters were allowed through and the you had the soccer pitch and the medical facilities, like in 2018. talk about how this facility looked, how the kids seemed, et cetera. >> hi there, joy, well yb yes the joy we saw today were calmed, seemed in good spirits as you mentioned more than 700 inside the facility. now, joy, as you know, there are different kinds of facilities for migrant children. this was an hhs facility further down along the chain of when they are picked up at the border. they first go to the border patrol facilities. those are some of the images

that we've been seeing the last couple days of overcrowding hundreds of kids staying longer than ten days when the legal limit is 72 hours. but then they came here. the hhs facility we went to for the first time in 2019 opened by the trump administration it was shut down a couple weeks later though. it's since reopened and reopened last month. and it began taking children from those border patrol facilities on march 10th. let me tell you what we saw. we went in with white house officials, congressional delegation. we say saw an intake facility where the children go in. they are then processed there. they're given a medical screening. they are tested for covid. joy i should point out more than 100 children inside this facility right now have tested positive for covid-19. but the officials put them in a separate area in isolation in pressure controlled rooms, negative pressure to make sure they are isolated from the rest of the kids here. it's not like the kids are giving covid to each other.

but we were in this intake facility, they are given a duffel bag with clothes. and, you know, a hygiene kit. then they go into dormer tos we were shone the dormer tos although the children were not there. we weren't allowed to speak to the children throughout the visit. but there is four children per room. and they also have kind of these mod you recall trailers where they can visit with legal representation virtually here. we saw the dining facility, a typical kay day for them is 7:00 a.m. breakfast, they then have six hours of education. we saw a classroom. now, it was very interesting just to walk by and while we weren't allowed to speak with the children, joy, you know we were able to say hello. they were many of them playing soccer. many of them actually some of them had knit hats in the texas heat. they are allowed to knit here. surprised me these are teenage boys, 13 to 17 years old some were knitting made their own

hats and walking around with it. so, yes, they seem in good spirits. but the question that the biden administration has been facing is, you know, do they have enough bed space here? and what we spoke with an hhs official that says the reason it's been tough to ramp up is that they had a 40% reduction in bed space due to covid. and also in terms of staffing, a hiring freeze at the tail end of the trump administration. but over the next couple of months, joy, yes, while we have seen other surges before, this is a particularly large one specifically for the unaccompanied minors. they have to find more bed space. and they are -- they are building or creating another facility in this area to hold hundreds of unaccompanied minors, joy. >> the other question i had when we were there befores with was what next? because there didn't at the time seem to be a plan for how you transition these kids out of this type of facility and to their families or loved ones in the united states. did you get a sense just from

talking with the white house officials that they have a plan for that? >> well, and that is the challenge here, right. they kind of break the kids off into separate categories. the first category is the child that comes in and, you know old enough that has contacts, family members inside this country, whether either be a parent or a -- you know, extended family member. and they're able to make contact, vet the family members and be able to get them into, you know, into the hands of a family member essentially. that may take several days for that category 1 child. but when you get into the category 2, category 3 they break it up. there is a category 4 where that child doesn't know anyone in the country at all. it's almost impossible to find them a suitable place to stay. some of the children eventually end up going back to the home country because they are waiting because it's a challenge here for the hhs officials to be able to vet and to be sure that the children are then placed in safe

hands while they are in this country. it was incredible to see this firsthand, joy. and this the first inside look we are seeing inside one of these hhs facilities at this point. joy. >> gabe, gutierrez, you're great and thank you for making the point. that's the clag. these are children you can't send them off with anyone. you have to vet and understand where they're going and where they're going is going to be safe and they're cared for. that is the key and having plan to do that very important. gabe gutierrez, great reporting. congrats on getting that scoop. thank you very much. appreciated you being here tonight. still ahead new video shows the insurrectionist attack that may have caused the death of capitol police officer brian sicknick plus the investigation points to high levels of coordination and preparation. what are the chances it was of an infamous trump ally doing the coordinating? hmm? we're back after this. coordinating hmm? we're back after this. ame on, g♪ ♪ hey now, you're a rock star, get the show on, get paid ♪

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prosecutors are drawing

together the threads connecting trump's most extreme supporters in the capitol siege, and there's video out today that sheds new light on the assault of capitol police officer brian sicknick. the "new york times" has exclusively obtained footage showing how one of the two men charged in his assault raised a spray can and discharged it in the director of officer sicknick. sicknick turns away after being hit. if the chemical in the spray is linked to his death, those defendants could face murder charges. prosecutors are untangling the web of connections between the extremists involved in the capitol attack. a new court filing reveals for the first time that at least one of the ten members of the oath keepers who attacked the capitol was coordinating with other extremist groups before january 6th. according to prosecutors, the suspect wrote in december that, quote, i organized an alliance between oath keepers, the florida 3%ers and the proud boys. we've decided to work together and shut this expletive down. in a separate message he also

said he was coming to d.c. at trump's invitation. quote, he called us all to the capitol and wants us to make it wild. as we learned this week, the oath keepers are prime candidates for sedition charges. according to the "new york times," justice department officials have been weighing whether to file those charges for weeks. i'm joined now by joyce vance, a former federal prosecutor. thanks for being here. happy equal payday. i think you're at $0.79 my sister. i think i'm at about $0.60. you are a top prosecutor. you should be at 100 to 100. let's talk about a few of these things. is it as weird to you as it is to me that we still don't have an official cause of death for officer sicknick, or is that sort of a prosecutorial strategy to withhold that? >> i think it's less a strategy and more reflective of the fact that there's a lot going on. this is a big complex case. they'll get the coroner's report when they get the coroner's report, but something that's really important here is that

that report not be prosecution oriented, that the coroner just do her job or his job and weigh in on what the actual cause of death is here. >> got you. all right, let's talk about the sedition charges. do you think they're likely, and can you define what that means under law? >> sure. so sedition is -- and this is seditious conspiracy, so it's entering into an agreement to use force to disrupt a government operation, in this case to keep congress from certifying the outcome of the 2020 election. so you have to have all of those elements in combination. it's a difficult charge to bring, joy, but it's not impossible. for instance, it was used back in 1995 against some al qaeda cells, and then charges were brought in 2010 against a militia group in michigan, and those charges failed because the judge said that there wasn't a specific enough agreement, that it was more generalized sort of guffawing as opposed to an agreement to execute a plan

using force to impede government operations. >> got you. well, that brings us to roger stone because roger stone is sort of not -- is sort of an outside character. this is somebody who's been a top adviser to donald trump for a very long time, wanted him to be president, saw him as sort of a better nixon. there's documents that talk about that. 20 years ago he organized a sort of faux little mini riot in miami-dade county to try to impact that presidential election, so he has a history. he keeps showing up in a lot of these cases. these filings, the defense filings for some of these defendants are mentioning roger stone, and showing that stone had previous interactions with some of these defendants who prosecutors have accused as part of what happened on january 6th and who may be charged, maybe with seditious conspiracy. there are also videos showing that some of the oath keepers who have been arrested provided security for him. these are some of the same people that provided security

for stone. how central do you think stone is going to wind up being in this overall case? >> if i was a prosecutor in this case, i would want to know as much as possible as what he did. i will confess that those text messages that were released yesterday between militia leaders, i went and counted spaces where they had redacted the name of someone that the group said that they were protecting on january 6th, and roger stone's name, and i'm sure many others would have fit into that redacted block. so here's what you want to do. you want to, as a prosecutor, have conversations, whether those are during a agreement deal or in some other way with people who are protecting stone, who were around stone. it's really conspicuous that he accordingly -- that he, according to his recitations stayed in his hotel room that day and didn't even show up at the rally on the ellipse. that sort of gets my interest. it's odd to be there and not to show up, so you want to know whether he was involved, what he was involved with. was it just brokering a deal

among these militia groups? was there anyone in the white house involved? you want to get as close to stone as possible. we know from stone's history that he does not want to spend time in prison, so if he becomes -- in this situation, and there's a lot of speculation, then he might be willing to talk about whether he had any contacts in the white house or elsewhere. >> yeah, he's already gotten clear out of one case that donald trump gave him, but he can't get another one because trump is gone. you know, what is striking about this january 6th conspiracy, it involved, you know, i was on with alice wagner earlier on "deadline white house" on nicole's show. the point i was trying to make, if you were going to put together a conspiracy to try to overturn an election, and you wanted to do it violently, who else would you go to but the 3%ers, but the oathers, who are military police specifically, actively or formerly and people like the proud boys who have a

long, violent history and whose leader was the leader of latinos for trump. there's all of this florida connection. it's like they're this perfect storm of people who were surrounded by a bunch of people who were duped but trump, sort of the perfect storm. do you think that is the way that a conspiracy charge gets built? >> well, i think there's a lot of smoke here, and so as a prosecutor, as an investigator, you've got to look at that smoke and see what the hard evidence looks like, joy. one of the complexities here is that it's possible there may be multiple conspiracies, not just one. so you've got to figure out who's involved among all these different players, and you've got to identify what the object of these conspiracies was, was it to go out and fight against antifa, which some of these folks have said was their goal, or was there an organized conspiracy to intervene and to keep congress from certifying the election. >> yeah, and very quickly, do you think that the benny thompson and eric swalwell lawsuits will somehow end up playing a role, the discovery we

get from those? >> so these are the cases the two congressmen have filed using the ku klux klan. discovery in those cases could be very, very interesting. >> yeah, indeed it will. joyce vance, thank you so much for being here. really appreciate you. thank you very much. that is tonight's "reid out." "all in with chris hayes" starts now. >> tonight on "all in". >> if one political party believes that when you lose an election the answer isn't to win more votes but rather to try and prevent the other side from voting, we have an existential threat to democracy. >> new signs democrats may move to counter the republican radicalization against democracy. then, new evidence of anti-government groups coordinating before the attack on the capitol and breathtaking new video of the attack on a capitol police officer who later