some think it should be around 25%. and these are people of the problem solvers caucus, some of those house democrats. and also looking at reinstating the pullbacks on the salt tax. on the state and local reductions. and so they're kind of pressuring the biden administration on this. we haven't seen a former plan of how to pay for it yet. so these conversations will be shaping up. >> all right, axios' alayna treene, thank you so much for joining us this morning. don't go anywhere. "morning joe" starts right now. >> i look at it this way, the first time we have an excuse, there were about 100,000 deaths that came from that original surge. all of the rest of them, in my mind, could have mitigated or decreased substantially, if we took the lessons we had learned

from that moment. that's what bothers me every day. >> that's dr. deborah birx, the former white house covid response coordinator under president trump saying most of the 551,000 u.s. coronavirus deaths could have been prevented. imagine that. and we're at the point where we have been so shocked by what we've seen over the past four years, by what we saw with the capitol riots, we've been so shocked by the botching, the mismanagement, and the lies during the trump administration during this pandemic, america has lost 551,000 people and dr. birx herself, who was inside, a scientist saying, all of those fatalities, much of them, many of them, could have been prevented.

social distancing guidelines, a race to a vaccine, masking managing this pandemic actually, even though it would have taken a lot of sacrifice on the part of the american people, actually was easy to lead through. you had to work to be as bad as the last president and to allow so many people to die. >> well, yeah, and really, it just comes down to as far as the president needing to have told the truth and he refused to do that from the beginning. we've showed the clips. you've seen them. the president saying that things weren't bad. it was only one person coming in from china, soon it was going to be gone. the president saying the next month, it was 15 people coming in, saying that to a michigan rally, that soon they were all going to be gone. the president telling republican members of the senate, just relax, this is all going away, nothing to worry about. the president telling

african-american leaders, don't worry about this. it's going to go away. you'll see, just like magic, it's going to go away. then he started talking about easter. we'll be back by easter. >> bleach in your skin. >> use bleach. yeah all of these things. so it's good to hear somebody who was alongside the president every step of the way saying what historians will likely say. >> and scientists. >> and members of trump's cult will push back upon. and yes, he was responsible for a large number of these deaths, just because he denied in public what he admitted privately to bob woodward, that this was a deadly virus, that it was a killer. but it's something that he just didn't want to get out, because he cared more about the bottom line, the stock market, the dow jones, than he did the lives of millions of -- >> or daily headlines. joe, it's important to look back, as painful as it is, to look back at every step of how

everything unfold in the trump presidency. but moving forward, what i see is that this isn't over. that trump, in a way, the trump effect, the trump following, it's not necessarily gone. it's not behind the united states of america. in many ways that we'll discuss during the show today, and then in the days to come. it's still very much an ongoing proposition where there are many americans who are following him, still. so welcome to "morning joe." it is monday, march 2th. with us, we have white house reporter for the associated press, jonathan lemire. host of msnbc's "politics nation" and president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton, and co-founder of bunch bowl news, ana palmer is with us as well this morning. it's great to have you onboard. the latest abc news/ipsos policy

shows widespread approval for president biden's top priorities. 75% approve of his handling of vaccine distribution. 72% approve of his handling of the pandemic overall. and 60% approve of how he's handling the economic recovery. >> that's the good news. john lemire, you look at those three numbers, you have a president that does extremely well with the majority of american people and has majority support on the two main issues rowan, that is getting the vaccine out there and handling the pandemic and doing pretty well with the economic recovery. that's one side of the coin there, the positive side, we'll get to the negative in a second. but how are the biden team feeling about how they're doing and how they need to stay one step aside? >> this is their central focus. he was elected, more than anything, beyond just simply not being donald trump was to manage

this crisis. our worst health crisis in a century. and they feel good about where they are, particularly after the first couple of weeks, they really ramped up vaccine manufacturing and then distribution. and that is a huge win for them right now. it can't be overstated how good things are about getting the vaccine out door and into the arms of america. right now, that is a huge strength and they like the positive signs they're seeing from the economy. the administration feels like biden has momentum right now, because he's handling this. and they believe this can lead to his being able to push through other parts of the agenda. they've always said, this was job number one, the fight's not over, but they feel good about where they are. >> and ana palmer, the president does, as jonathan says, he have to feel like he has some wind at his back, especially as it pertains to the handling of the covid crisis. and helps him push democrats forward and maybe unite them a

little bit more, as to whether it's infrastructure or voting rights. >> joe biden is in the strongest position that he possibly could be. a lot of people on capitol hill. and even myself were fairly skeptical that he was going to be able to move as aggressively as they did to get covid relief done. that's been a success. the rollout has been a success on the vaccine. the big question will be wednesday, big back better. there democrats coalesce around infrastructure. around what are the majority should be. can he continue that momentum? clearly, republicans are concerned about those poll numbers. they're not talking about covid relief. they're talking about the border. and that's because when you look at those polls, joe biden is in a very strong position. >> when it comes to the president's handling of the

border crisis, 57% approve, 41% disapprove. so 57% disapprove and 41% approve. the president is also underwater when it comes to his handling of gun violence. after two high-profile mass shootings, just over 42% approve, 57% disapprove. >> those are a little harder -- those a little harder to dig into, reverend al. because, of course, some on the right may think that he's doing too much, when it comes to proposing new gun safety legislation. others may think on the left he's not doing enough. but let's talk about that border crisis. it's been a mess along the border. you know it's concerning when some people in the administration and also in left-wing media go, there's not a crisis at the border. nothing to see here, move along. this is just regular migration

flow when that's not what we're hearing from people on the ground or experts in this field. so what does the president need to do? >> what we're seeing, when people say, this is the normal rise across the spring because the terrain is easier to travel, but there is a surge beyond that. i think the president needs to deal with the facts, be honest. the reason he's gotten such high marks and high polling in the area of covid-19 is because he's come off as a straight shooter. he must be a straight shooter about what's happening at the border. a lot of is because people in central and south america understand that he is a more humane president and understanding president than his predator, trump.

and a lot of it, most of it is what people are running from. we must look at the fact that people do not leave their countries, risk their children unless they're running from something they feel is more dire. he must analyze with leveraging those country to do things that would make their citizens not want to leave and have a humane policy at the border. but at the same time, stop the surge. and i do not think he needs to be trump like and in any way cover what is going on. yes, there's a natural surge, but it's even a little beyond that and we need to deal with that and deal with it in a square and fair way to the public. >> and taking care of the problem at the source with foreign aid, that is a longer-term solution and it needs to be done. it works. but joe biden and his campaign team and his political team inside the white house will not

be looking of these numbers where he's doing on every other issue except the border and do nothing. what do you expect them to do or adjust politically over the next week to those numbers? we started doing that with some of the things he said at the press conference. he took a more moderate, more tough stand than he initially did. what do we expect this coming week? >> first, you're right. his rhetoric changed a little bit last week. also, importantly, let's remember, he appointed vice president kamala harris to lead the administration's response to the situation at the border. this is his big deal. this is his first major piece of her portfolio. and it shows her administration is taking this very seriously. that's a signal there, too. they are working overtime to expand facilities there at the border and they are looking to change their approach in the coming days. but you're right, this is a

political situation. it's a humanitarian crisis, of course, at the border, but politics for the white house, of course it is. they are wary, this is the first time the republicans have laid a glove on them. the republicans saw that and largely left it alone. no one voted for it, of course. republican lawmakers. they saw how popular it was with their own constituents, but focused on things like dr. seuss and mr. potato head. but they've seized the border as an area where they can score some points. and the white house is aware of that. they have taken a few hits and they're looking to push back, and it starts with a more aggressive agenda, including putting the president at the head of the team. >> so we've been talking about polls. everyone is curious about what the president is doing in his polls. but an absolutely fascinating

poll about andrew cuomo that came out yesterday, that we were starting to see hints of over the past week or two. black voters in new york have remained loyal to andrew cuomo. the base of the democratic party have remained loyal to andrew cuomo. and now his overall numbers after being buffeted with weeks, months of really bad press and some really serious stories, his poll numbers have stabilized. >> it's -- so the latest morning consult poll shows the approval rating for new york governor andrew cuomo is stabilizing in the wake of two scandals threatening his career. he was at 63% approval when the news broke that his administration withheld data on nursing home deaths from covid. and then he had dropped seven

pointed to 56%. over the past month, more accusers have come forward and he's only dropped about three points. now at 53% approval an it has morning consult notes, these latest numbers are similar to other surveys conducted over the last few days that suggested the decline in cuomo's approval is leveling off. he had it coming from the nursing home scandal alone, you would think would be a pretty debilitating hit, especially given -- i think a lot of people really looked up to him during the pandemic. a lot still do, obviously. and the nursing home crisis and the aftereffects of that, the hidden numbers, so to speak, and i put that in quotes, you would think would really take a hit on his leadership numbers, especially because he wrote that book on leadership. but you know what? that on top of accusations that

have been highly publpublicized interviews with women who say that the governor sexually harassed them, fairly young women, and you would think the meter would have moved a little more. >> well, this isn't -- this is not a new phenomenon, as we know. >> mm-hmm. >> rev, we saw donald trump supporters, people in donald trump's tribe stayed with him through thick and thin. on the state level, you could look at ralph northam. people in the media were calling for ralph northam in virginia to get out. same thing with his lieutenant governor. and both of them said they weren't going anywhere. and the democratic base staid with them and black voters stayed with them. and that's what's happening right now with andrew cuomo. the new york assembly is not going to be able to impeach a

guy in 75% of the democrats are supportive of him and most black voters are still supportive of him. >> i think what we must deal with the fact that the charges that have been suggested against governor cuomo with the nursing home numbers and the multiple charges by women are serious. but people also feel that people have the right to defend themselves. and i think because we have become so accustomed in the country now to seeing public figures accused, that we're now waiting to say, wait a minute, let us see what happens when they give him the opportunity to defend themselves and there's not a rush to judgment. i'm not surprised that governor cuomo's numbers did not go down, particularly in the black community. i was getting it every day on my syndicated radio show. people at the national action network were saying this.

so the polling numbers reflect what i'm getting. it does not take away prosecute seriousness of what has been charged. but people are serious about, you've got to have -- you have to do more than just make an accusation for me to go against someone and their demonstrated leadership. >> you know, mika had told me when she saw the numbers. she said -- and we were talking about black voters remaining loyal, mika say, you know, in the media, we try people. and we try them and they're kicked out, without due process. and you see that time and time again. no due process, no hearing, somebody says something or does something and they're immediately canceled. they're immediately kicked out. and what mika said, rev, was, the black community in the case of northam and in the case of cuomo they hundreds what it's

like at times that they're not receiving due process. so like you said, they may be a bit more patient to actually work through allegations and actually see what happened. >> if i could add, rev, there used to actually being sometimes targeted and arrested, just for being black. >> well, if you look at the fact that any data shows that many blacks disproportionately, in our families, have had people who have had to deal with the criminal justice system and some level of accusation. so we understand personally more than anyone that someone has the right to defend themselves against being accused, being smeared. it does not mean at the end that they are not guilty, but you are at least going to have to prove that you're guilty, when my cousin, my brother, or myself may have been falsely accused. so that is why the black community says that i can't think of one high-visible black

leader that has not had to go through some of that, that you're guilty until proven innocent and i think that the governor cuomo and others, bill clinton -- blacks stood by bill clinton all the way through the to the end of his presidency. so i think that it is no surprise other than those that don't understand that there are lives in our community that has to look at a criminal justice system and those that use it, differently than others who get a more fair treatment. >> well, now to this. some of those facing charges in the capitol riot are raising their legal fees online. "usa today" reports riot defendants are using an expanded network of online platforms to crowd fund their legal fees, despite a crackdown by tech companies. reading from the report, quote, the capital riot extremists and others are engaging these companies in a game of cat and

mouse, as they spring from one fund-raising tool to another. using new sites, user names and accounts. in one case, a crowd-raising website set up in late 2020 has been adopted by a defendant charged with storming the capitol who used it to raid almost 180,000. his was one of eight fund-raisers on the site as of last week. and his donations accounted for 84% of money raised on that platform. last week, former president trump told fox news that rioters who broke into the capitol on january 6th were, quote, hugging and kissing police and posed zero threat to lawmakers. >> that's just -- >> it's sick, actually. >> that's just shocking. what do you say to the families of those police officers -- >> maimed and killed. >> -- who were dead? who were beaten and abused by

american flags? had their head shoved in like a vice into doors? like, how sick can you be, denying that and hating police officers so much, hating cops so much, that you're willing to say something like that. >> trump's former chief of staff speaking over the weekend didn't see it that weekend. >> i was surprised to hear the president say that yesterday or earlier this week or something like that. clearly, there were people who were behaving themselves and there were people who were absolutely not. but to come out and say that absolutely was fine and there was no risk, that was manifestly false. people died. other people were severely injured. there are videos of folks behaving themselves and protesting peacefully, but i don't know how you can say there was no risk when people were killed. >> but the lie continues. you have donald trump saying this. basically throwing police officers under the bus, suggesting that they were never in danger, that they were

treated wonderfully when we know the horrors that they had to endure. that many of them had to endure. but it's donald trump, it's ron johnson, they're lying through their teeth and everybody knows they're lying through their teeth, and yet they continue to lie. what is the up game for them trying -- this would be like a leader trying to paper over 9/11. and pretend that it never happened. and say, oh, no, no, no. the islamic extremists actually treated the pilots very well. or whatever analogy you want to draw. here, you have police officers being brutalized with american flags. police officers having their heads shoved into doors. one officer laying down on the

ground being beaten, saying he knowing he's not going to survive. another police officer sprayed with bear spray, who died later. this is -- this is so deeply offensive. these police officers and their families, to pretend this never happened, it's so deeply offensive to -- well, you know, kevin mccarthy, also, screaming at the president of the united states, asking for help. the president refusing help when other republicans called. you know, mike pence stuck there with his family while these trump terrorists were chanting "hang mike pence, hang mike pence." donald trump never came. in fact, he tweeted inflammatory rhetoric about mike pence, after he found out that mike pence had been rushed from the chamber and donald trump is saying that these police officers, do you

hear the screaming and the agony from that police officer? donald trump is saying that the police were treated wonderfully. ron johnson is saying, there was never any risk, there was never any threat at the united states capitol. ana, it's -- it's just breathtaking. and i don't see what the upside is for them. what is the political calculation here? >> it's hard to understand, he's so divorced from reality, these stark pictures that we're just watching, right? it's not as if this happens and nobody saw it. and that the entire world wasn't completely absorbed and watching in horror as, you know, the country that is supposed to be standing for freedom and democracy is being overrun by its own people. you know, i think it's very divorced. i think ron johnson is an outlier on capitol hill, when you talk to members of congress, when you talk to leadership,

republicans and democrats. there's a lot of fear right now, as a member of congress. i mean, they feel like they're under attack. you're seeing more members than i've ever seen in 15-plus years of covering congress with security detail, not just leadership for members you would expect, but rank and file members who are getting serious threats based on what the president and some of his supporters are pushing. the fact that they have to have security details at airports, at homes. this is not as if this was a one-off event. we finally have some security fencing that is going down around the capitol, but everybody is on high alert here. and i don't understand exactly what donald trump is doing, except for the fact that he wants those supporters to continue to support him. and that that's very, very important to whatever his calculation is for his next business venture or future in politics. but it is -- it's absolutely just -- you know, totally separate and apart from what most people in washington

understand was the truth and most people in the world. >> and ana, you're saying that ron johnson and donald trump are actually an outlier based on the republicans that you talk to day in and day out? >> i do. i think that they are. i think ron johnson is definitely not in the mainstream of republican lawmakers who understand what happened. >> okay. >> that's -- wow. >> still ahead on "morning joe" -- >> where was he? >> i don't know, joe. >> yeah. it's a new warning from intelligence officials about the potential for the taliban to take over afghanistan if u.s. troops are pulled out. plus, dnc chair jamie harrison is standing by. he joins the conversation after vowing to fight republican efforts to restrict access to the ballot box. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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welcome back to "morning joe." it's 30 past the hour. what a pretty shot of washington, d.c. as the sun just about comes up. and look at the traffic. oh, my gosh. there's a lot of traffic, actually. president biden -- >> they're back. >> people are getting back to work. >> yes. >> president biden may step in to address the restrictive new voting laws in georgia. he told reporters that the white house is working on a response. take a look. >> is there anything the white house can do to protect voting rights in georgia? >> we're working on that right now. we don't know exactly what we can do at this point. the justice department is taking a look as well. >> in a fiery statement earlier in the day, the president again urged congress to pass the voting rights bills that would prevent restrictions like the ones in georgia.

he wrote in part, this is jim crow in the 21st century. it must end. we have a moral and constitutional obligation to act. i once again urge congress to pass the "for the people" act and the john lewis voting rights advancement act to make it easier for all eligible americans access to the ballot box and prevent attacks on the sacred right to vote. and as the administration looks to shift its priorities to the next big project of infrastructure, senator raphael warnock of georgia says the country cannot simply move on. >> we've got to work on the infrastructure of our country, our roads and our bridges. and we've got to work on the infrastructure of our democracy. after all, the only reason we're able to get anything done, have the prospects of getting more done this congress is because people were able to show up and

express their voices in their democracy. we wouldn't have passed the american rescue plan had the people of georgia not stood up in the way that they did, historic turnout. and, so we've got to do both of those things. >> joining us now, dnc chairman, jamie harrison. welcome back to the show. it's great to have you. >> good morning! >> let's just right out of the box, ask about these new restrictions. what can be done before the next election to try and pull back these restrictions that some would say are new laws that are based on lies? >> yeah. well, mika, we are going to do everything we possibly can within our power to fight back against these laws. we're going to take them to court. there's a lawsuit already spending against the georgia law, but we're also going to fight this in congress as well. and listen, this isn't anything new. you know, i'm a son of the south. i grew up here in south carolina.

you know, one of the last things i did with my grandfather was vote. he passed away in 2004. and that day, i sat on the porch with him and he reminded me of the history. he said, jamie, here in south carolina, i was not always considered a whole man. i wasn't always allowed to vote. he said, jamie, never let anybody tell you that you don't matter and that you don't count. what georgia has done in this bill is in essence said to a group of folks in georgia that you don't matter and you don't count. from even criminalizing giving somebody a bottle of water. this is america. this is not iraq or something over in the far east. this is america, where we send our sons and daughters overseas to fight for democracy and other countries. where over here, the republican party does every damned thing that they can in order to take the right to vote away from duly qualified americans. and it's not right and we're going to fight back against it. >> i wonder in that first iraq

election, what american commentators, what the republican party would have done if, let's say, shia militia had ordered a rule and enforced it, that if you tried to give water to one of those iraqis that wanted to vote and hold up their finger -- that purple finger that everybody was getting weepy about it, what if the iraqi government or what if -- what if shia militias said, if -- you can't do that. you can't give water. we would be outraged, we would be rightly outraged. so mr. chairman. that's the most obvious extreme it idiocy of this bill. we've heard a lot of generalizations about this is jim crow 2.0. give our viewers the provision that you find the most troubling. that you find the most aggressively targeted at black

voters and hispanics and other people of color. >> well, it's just -- joe, and i appreciate you bring it up, because this provision has not been discussed. in essence, we know about the calls that lindsey graham made to the secretary of state. we know about the calls that donald trump made to the secretary of state, as well. in this bill, it provides the very partisan state board of elections, the opportunity to go into fulton county, the county where atlanta is, a vastly democratic county. it gives them the opportunity to replace the entire county board of elections in fulton county for really no reason at all, with other than to say, we don't like what you're doing. and it allows them the state, which is controlled by republicans, to then say, we're going to disqualify voters in this county. we're going to not allow these

voters to vote in this particular county. and there's really nothing anybody can do about it. and that's what's in this bill right now. and we need to fight that with everything that we have. >> well, jamie, mr. chairman, it's reverend al. the fact that there is, as you said, a tradition of fighting these kind of southern states, the fact is that 43 states are trying to change their laws, which means that we really need the national legislation that we've referred to in this segment, in terms of the senate bill 1, in terms of the john lewis bill. will the democratic party come to terms with the fact that it may have to try and get its members to deal with the filibuster in order to get federal law to protect us against these state-by-state election laws and other measures

that are so important. will the dnc find itself having to deal with the question of the filibuster? >> well, reverend al, you know better than i that this won't be the first time that the federal government has had to step in order to protect the rights of citizens from what is going on in some of these states. and what the democratic party has to do. we cannot be shy about this. we cannot talk out of both sides of our mouth. we have to do everything that we possibly can. that means looking at the rules in the senate to make sure that we're protecting the rights of all americans. and at the end of the day, you hear republicans like lindsay and others, mitch mcconnell who are saying, this is a big federal power grab. no, this is protecting the most sacred right we have as american citizens. this is the foundational right in which all other rights are built upon. and so, when we allow this to slip away, then everything else

in this country falls apart. and we can't do that. we as democrats need to make sure. and this is what we want. we want every american to go and vote. even if you don't vote for democrats, i would love for you to vote for democrats, but even if you don't, that's your right as an american citizen to go and vote. and i know that we can win the battle on the issues and we have better candidates. so i'm willing to get into that arena, but i'm not willing to allow one political party who only can win by cheating to do just that. we can't do that. we have to do all that we can. >> jonathan lemire with the ap is with us and has a question. jonathan? >> mr. chairman, good to see you this morning. i want to just pick up where the reverend left off and ask you more specifically about the filibuster. obviously, your job as dnc chairman is to elect as many democrats as possible. joe manchin of west virginia is a democrat. he is one who has signaled some opposition to the filibuster in the past. he and his aides have made very clear in recent days, he's the

only democrat who could win in west virginia. so therefore, he's sort of an immovable object, and it would seem that he has suggested if he casts a ballot, he could vote it out of office or switch teams. whatever it might be. how concerned are you in particular with joe manchin here? what is your game plan, along with senator schumer in the white house, to work with manchin, senator sinema of arizona, as well, on this filibuster, where reform is likely going to be needed in order to get things done for voting rights, gun control, and other measures? >> well, i think senator manchin is probably right. he may be the only democrat that can win statewide in west virginia. listen, at this point in time, you have to deal with the reality of the situation. we got 50 votes in the senate right now. kamala harris gives us one more. and so that gives us control of the senate at this point in time. we know, that's a limited control. we don't have the flexibility that we really need. and so my job, what can i

control is how we can get more democrats elected to the u.s. senate, to give chuck schumer more votes, so that gives other members the flexibility to do what we need to do. that's the thing that i can control. i'm going to lead to chuck schumer and others in the senate right now to decide where they can take this caucus. i hope, though, that democrats will understand that the american people and the democratic base is looking for them for leadership on this issue of voting rights. and this is something that is so personal to so many of us, because many of our forefathers and fore-mothers didn't always enjoy this right. so this is the most important thing that they can do over the course of the next few weeks and few months. >> all right. dnc chairman jamie harrison, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning. we appreciate it. we want to bring in now political scientist, election analyst, and founder of the digital platform "the cycle,"

rachael bidco. she recently surveyed about 400 georgia voters on election 2020 and the capitol riot and has also been listening to this previous conversation. but let's start with what you found out, with the work you've done looking at the election and the riot. >> yeah, i'm very pleased to present these results in the context of this conversation. and it's really critical, because i think what we tend to do on this side of the aisle, anyway, is forget about that 30,000 foot context. and it's nice to think that ron johnson and donald trump, what they are doing with trying to pretend that the capitol riot was a hugging event and peaceful and non-risky is something that's a marginal or a fringe movement thing. but i commissioned the survey, because i wanted to quantify how radical are republican voters. i use the state of georgia

because of the voting legislation that was being proposed there to demonstrate, this is not a margial viewpoint. only 53% of georgia's electorate view the riot as an insurrection, and that is driven predominantly that only 50% of republicans view it as an armed insurrection. it's not ron johnson and donald trump, it's the entire republican party being fed that information through the right-wing media machine. and that is really why we're in this legitimate ongoing democratic crisis that is, you know, feeding a passion for restricting voting rights across the whole country and putting in measures that are going to allow them to invalidate -- even if you get around these new suppression laws, they're putting in backstops that will allow state legislatures to overturn election results. so we really need to be talking more about this in a

30,000-foot, democratic crisis, type of frame, i think. >> ana palmer has the next question. ana? >> yeah, i want to follow up on what you were talking about, about the fringe versus the mainstream. because i think in the capitol, we see a real difference between ron johnson as being an outlier compared to a lot of republicans. what did you find in the survey between, you know, is it really the fringe or is it actually just mainstream republicans having the same kind of ideas? >> let me give you some startling data, ana, because it is really startling. 12% of republicans in this data say that joe biden legitimately won the election, okay? so when we -- so those are georgia voters. and although we see a pretty robust rejection in data about these specific voter laws, i can tell you now, when it comes to election day in 2022, these republicans are going to vote for republican candidates. it may be that when they're in the capitol or are elected

republican elites who aren't in that johnson frame, are telling reporters, gosh, i'm so uncomfortable with the direction of the party, they are being pushed very heavily by these gerrymandered districts and we're about to undergo another gerrymander. we're already down to about 15% of overall house seats being competitive. if the republican party doubles down and does another partisan gerrymander, which is what their intention is to do to take the house majority, we are looking at a 2022/'24 cycle in which the gop is giving us every indication that this time, they're putting in the mechanics to contest the results of the 2024 election, no matter which way it comes out. we're really in a crisis situation, and the unfortunate part is we're not talking about that, we're talking about microissues, which are important, but ultimately, it doesn't matter what's happening at the border or on health care or on covid. if your democracy is coming down in flames around you and no one is talking about it.

>> i mean, that is such a critical insight, rachael. thank you for being here. and it is critical. every time we have a story about january the 6th and we show the footage from that day, it bears repeating what happened. it's just like i said about 9/11, which was an attack on our country and the pentagon, it's something that we needed to show and talk about. it's something that we needed to plan for the next attack on. and here, when the united states capitol is overrun by domestic terrorists, and police offices die and you have police officers being brutalized. >> and our democratic process stopped in its tracks. >> and it is the definition of sedition. where our conspiracy to commit sedition, where people plan, and then moved in to stop the constitutional -- the constitutionally required

counting of electoral ballots. that is -- that is sedition. and it happened while we were all watching on television, law enforcement allowed it to continue to happen far too long. we had a sitting president who was actually sitting there, gleefully watching, as police officers were brutalized and beaten with american flags. wondering why other people in his office weren't cheering along with him. we had republicans like kevin mccarthy, calling on the phone, screaming, begging for help. the president, at that time, refused to offer help. had other republican members of congress, who actually served overseas in uniform, calling, asking the president for help. we had a vice president of the united states being chased around, people chanting "hang mike pence," his family hiding

away from the mob. and but for the actions of an extraordinarily, uh, tactical, strategic capitol hill police officer, we probably would have had a confrontation between the mob and members of the united states senate. so far rachel, you're right. we can never forget. and we have to see what's happening, not just in georgia, but all across the country, as a continued effort to prop up a republican party that obviously believes it can now only win by anti-democratic measures. this is very -- this is a very simple battle. you've got people fighting for the constitution. and on the other hand, you have people fighting to undermine the constitution. you have people fighting for an expansion of western liberal democracy, and you have people

on the other side who are illiberals, who don't want american democracy, western liberal democracy to expand, because they know, they don't have the numbers to win. they've lost the popular vote, in seven of the last eight presidential elections, might be eight out of the last nine. i'll have to check on that. but mika, rachel is right, yes, it's important to look at specific issues that we're debating, that we're going through every day, but this all happens against a dark backdrop of january the 6th. >> it really does. >> we can never forget and we have to continue supporting the fbi, as they try to bring pefr last person who is part of that sedition to justice. >> rachel bitecode, thank you very much. we'll see you again soon. and still ahead, we'll talk about what we can expect in court today as opening statements get underway in the trial of derek chauvin, the former minneapolis police officer charged in the death of

georgia floyd. we're back in just a moment. f georgia floyd. we're back ijun st a moment.

the trial of former minneapolis police officer derek chauvin is set to begin today in minneapolis. chauvin faces second-degree murder, third-degree murder, and manslaughter charges in george floyd's death last june. the prosecution will argue chauvin's restraint of floyd for about nine minutes was a substantial cause of his loss of consciousness. and ultimately, his death. meanwhile, the defense is expected to present evidence that suggests floyd could have died from several health conditions and his use of drugs. they may also bring up floyd's previous arrest in may of 2019, as part of their case. reverend al, what are you

thinking so far as you're hearing as to what the defense is going to put forward in the man who died because he couldn't breathe, because somebody was kneeling on his neck? >> well, i'm in minneapolis and we'll be going with the family to the opening arguments. i was the eulogist at george floyd's funerals, both here in minneapolis and in houston. and one of the things that the family has been told is that the prosecution will raise the fact that if, in fact, the officer held his knee on the neck of george floyd for eight minutes and 46 seconds, at some point, even if an officer was reacting out of stwingt, at some point, it turns into intent. and intent is -- if you causes

to harm that cause the death of a human being. you can raise the question of drugs or the question of his previous arrest. the question is, even if all of that is true and that must be proven, even though george floyd is not on trial, chauvin is, you still have to deal with the fact, did you intend to harm him or lead to his death? in fact, going into the court this morning, the family and i are taking a pause on our knees for eight minutes and 46 seconds. so people around the world that will join us will say, that's a long time not to hear a man begging for his life, saying "i can't breathe," calling for his mother. that's a long period of time as people will pause with us for eight minutes and 46 seconds. we will hear arguments from both sides, but the time period is what is going to be problematic for the defense. >> reverend, what are you hearing from the family and does the family plan to speak to the people of minneapolis and the

country before or after judgment is rendered? >> we had a prayer service here last night, which is why i came in early. the family spoke. they will speak going into court this morning. members of the family will join attorney ben crump and i and speak. and they want to set a tone that all they want is justice. they're not looking for violence. the violence has been done on george floyd. they're looking for justice. they're looking for a fair trial. they're looking for an aggressive prosecution. because in many ways, this case is not only about chauvin, it's about the american criminal justice system. chauvin is in the courtroom, but america is on trial. can we bring justice in a case where policemen on video for almost nine minutes, despite pleas for his life, leads to someone's mortality. will this officer be able to walk away from this? america is going to have to really stand up and deal with

the fact that we have got to be able to hold police accountable. all police are not bad, most are not bad, but at some point, the bad police must be held accountable. >> reverend al, thank you. coming up, the united states hits a new record for daily coronavirus vaccinations, but it comes as some states see an increase in case numbers. how dr. anthony fauci is explaining the rise in infections. "morning joe" is coming right back ctions "morning joe" is comin .g right back

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welcome back to "morning joe." it is monday, march 29th. jonathan lemire, reverend al sharpton, ana palmer are still with us this morning. and joining the conversation, we

have chief white house correspondent for "the new york times," peter baker. and u.s. national editor at the "financial times," ed luce joins us this morning. let's get to the latest abc news/ipsos poll showing widespread approval for the president's top priorities. 75% approve of his handling, joe biden's handling of vaccine distribution. 72% approve of his handling of the pandemic overall. and 60% approve of how he's handling the economic recovery. when it comes to the border crisis, 57% disapprove. 41% approve. the president is also underwater when it comes to his handling of gun violence, after two high-profile mass shootings, just 42% approve. 57% disapprove. >> peter baker, when it comes to polling this monday morning for joe biden and the white house, it's the best of times, it's the worst of times.

though i suspect they'll take the high numbers where they have them. and that is the handling of covid and also handling the vaccinations. and the economy. >> yeah, we haven't seen numbers like that for a while. even president trump even on his best day never got majority support for his performance overall, did get majority numbers for his handling of the economy at times, but even so, never at the kind of stratospheric level we're talking about there, three quarters of the public basically behind biden on the number one priority that his administration has set. that's obviously good for him and as long as he continues to deliver on vaccine distribution, those numbers may stay high. but you're right, the border numbers and the gun numbers suggest that this is not permanent and it's not universal. that people are making a distinction between policies. they are making a distinctions between different issue sets. and as the coronavirus begins to move increasingly in our rearview mirror, you can see the potholes ahead for a president

who's got a pretty ambitious agenda ahead of him. whether he can sell that or not to the public is going to be the big question for the rest of the year. >> you know, i will say, of all the numbers, though, the one that's most fascinating to me, ed luce has to do with the fact that 75% support how joe biden, the democrat is handing the vaccine rollout. 72% approve of what the democratic president is doing when it comes to covid. this has been somehow, donald trump made a pandemic the worst pandemic since 1918 a political battle. a tribal battle. a red state versus blue state battle. but you look at joe biden's numbers there, he has broken through and he has moved the coronavirus beyond being a pitched, political reason to divide americans. >> yeah, i mean, i have to say,

there's no positive position in the world. it is that it's a once in a generation or even more opportunity to showcase what public confidence in government can do for americans. americans have become so cynical about government, so cynical about washington. and here is an opportunity for biden to just show them that they should be so cynical. it can do for them what no other entity can do. he's also followed the first rule of jobs, which is also to secede an underperformer. and at this case with trump, a sort of epic underperformer. and he's benefited from some luck in terms of timing, namely, the vaccines coming online as he came to the presidency.

but he's exploited that luck and that's being reflected in the opinion poll numbers. and if this rollout continues to accelerate, as it has been, way beyond the 100 day promise, those numbers should stay up as high as they are now. >> such a great point. some of what joe biden is benefiting from is that great irish luck of his, where you secede somebody who underperformed in the job, but a second approach that's helping him is the fact that he always underpromises and overdelivers. and that's a key, that's also great contrast to the guy who proceeded him. he gets to come out, he said 100 million vaccines? you know what, we're going to go with 200 million vaccines. again, political leaders that underpromise and overperform are

always reward, ed. >> they are. my wife is from galloway, from ireland, and i don't want to say luck of the irish, i'll get in big trouble if i say that. but it's a mirror image of how trump governed. he promised the moon and delivered an epic national disaster, with hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths because of such reckless approach to this pandemic. biden's very sort of very modest promises, which he's already exceeded, and very science-guided public communication is really following the textbook. it's what jacinda ardern, the prime minister of new zealand has been doing so well in new zealand. it's following the textbook. and the more you do that, the more public trust you get, the more public trust you get, more

you can do. there's a virtuous circle there, that is a mirror image of the vicious one that biden's predecessor showcased so notoriously. >> and if you look at the other side of the coin and see how his numbers are lower when it comes to handling the border, substantially lower when it comes to handling the border, you think back to last week and think back to some criticisms. some of it quiet, but some criticisms democrats had of what was going on at the border. some going there, taking pictures. congressman cuellar coming on this show saying, that they needed to send some of these people back and show images of them sending them back, humanely, but sending them back home.

and other democrats very concerned about what happened with the hispanic vote in florida, what happened with the hispanic vote along the border in texas. democrats obviously worried. what are they doing? how are they pushing the white house? in what direction? >> absolutely. i think this is going to be one of the thorniest issues for joe biden, because they don't have an easy answer or solution about what should be done on the border. there's no agreement upon between republicans and democrats, but even among democrats, about what needs to happen next. i think you've seen a lot of criticism by democrats of the administration in terms of press access, in terms of what the actual plan is for these children that have been separated from their families. and the biden administration has kind of built that. they've tried to take a more aggressive approach. they've tried to get their message onboard. now that they have their cabinet in place. but this is something that republicans clearly see as an achilles heel for them, and their going to continue to push on this over and over again, because, as you saw in those

numbers earlier, the covid response, everybody thinks that joe biden, republicans and democrats, is doing a good job on. immigration, gun control, some of those issues that are unlikely to be resolved anytime soon, is where you're going to see a lot of political opponents try to make some points there. >> well, as coronavirus vaccinations ramp up, the united states has hit a new daily record of shots administered. according to cdc data, nearly 3.4 million doses of the pfizer, moderna and johnson & johnson vaccines were administered across the country on friday. that brings the u.s. seven-day average of doses administered to 2.6 million shots per day. and that number is expected to continue to rise. the biden administration says 11 million doses of johnson & johnson's covid vaccine will be distributed this week. according to the white house's covid-19 response coordinator, the u.s. is still on track to deliver on its goal of making

shots available to all adults by the end of may. which is pretty amazing. even though, as vaccinations increase, some areas of the country are still seeing a rise in covid cases. and a plateau in hospitalizations. here's what dr. anthony fauci attributed it to. >> it is not completely the variants. what we're lying seeing is because of things like spring break and pulling back on the mitigation methods that you've seen now. several states have done that. i believe it's premature, margaret, because i've said many times to you that when you're coming down from a big peak and you reach a point and start to plateau, once you stay at that plateau, you're really in danger of a surge coming up. and unfortunately, that's what we're starting to see. >> that's even reflected anecdotally, in terms -- a lot of my friends, we've seen, joe,

that people, especially spring breakers, they're getting it. they're getting out there and they're getting it. they're getting covid. >> and, you know, we are in an area that i think people were really responsible over the past year, masks -- >> we tried. >> -- and a lot of social distancing. we were very pleased to see how responsible people were. but jonathan lemire, this past weekend, man, i think it may be because a lot of people have gotten vaccines and they're going out. but man, they're partying like it's 1999. going to the barn hills country buffet, loading in there, going to other restaurants and really just again, it looks -- at least this weekend, when i was driving around and looking at restaurants -- it looked like pre-pandemic activity.

which is great news if you're vaccinated, but if you're not, we know some people who are still getting covid. it's still no joy ride. it's rough. >> very rough, joe. and you're right, it's a combination of some people getting the vaccine, that's the good news. but i also think it's people with the better weather here and good headlines and a sense that the pandemic is almost over. people are letting their guard down. that's what the white house is worried about. we heard from dr. fauci there. president biden himself on his return to the white house last night from delaware said the same thing, that was his fear. and we are seeing cases really start to pick up in some states. including back where this pandemic really originated, here in the united states. first hot spots of new york and new jersey. they're suddenly -- as well as michigan -- are having disturbing rising. and we're seeing it, with the images out of south beach miami, tens of thousands of young people teeming through the streets, not wearing masks, certainly no social distancing.

and that was probably the most extreme example. but you're right, whether it's the streets of washington or new york or other parts of the country, you're seeing people just out and about. and on one hand, you can't blame them, of course. we've all been stuck in our homes for a year, but it's too soon for this. that is really the message that the white house is trying to deliver. that we're almost there. that the vaccines are out, more are coming, and by this summer, you know, that july 4th target the president put, that's not that far away, considering what we've been through. but now is not the time to let our guard down, or we could face yet another surge, particularly with these variants that are more contagious. >> for sure. >> and peter baker, it is a tough position for any politician to be in, whether you're president or a governor, to say, hold on, hold on, go back home. get your -- i mean, most americans now a year plus in this are done with it. they hear the great news about vaccines. a lot of their parents,

grandparents have vaccines, so now they're starting to say, why can't i go out? the people that i know that are older that i love are vaccinated. unfortunately, there's still, especially with younger americans, there's still a lot of people that could get the disease with, unfortunately, as we've seen, with some younger people that we know, they could get covid and have some pretty, pretty devastating impacts. lasting impacts. >> that's exactly right. cases have plateaued around 55,000, 60,000 a day, but disturbingly, we're still seeing a thousand deaths a day. that's much, much lower than it was at the peak around 4,000, but a thousand a day would mean another 9/11 every three days. a thousand families that are losing somebody that they care about every single day. it's a hard message. off president who wants to emphasize hope and optimism and

take credit for the progress that's been made, but at the same time has to deliver the message as jonathan just said, it's not done yet. don't get too far ahead of things. and there's a conflict, because it's not -- people are hearing not just from their president, but their governors. and some of their governors like ron desantis in florida are sending the opposite message, saying, it's time to lift these restrictions, move on, get the economy going again, and in effect, they're telling people to get back to normal life, even if there's still really another month or so before these vaccinations have gotten to -- hopefully to the level where they're expansive enough that we get close to something of herd immunity. so it's a very perilous moment in that sense, because it's not so clear and the message is kind of conflicted. >> yeah, mika, peter brings up such an important to underline. a thousand people, a thousand americans are still dying by the day. and so, we're going to be talking about afghanistan. there's a heated debate about

bringing the troops home, because too many have died over the past 20 years there. think about it this way, as far as covid. if you want to realize how serious the situation still is, by the end of this week, more people who have likely died from covid, just between now and and this weekend than have died in 20 years of combat in afghanistan. >> yeah. so we're -- we have a lot of reason to be hopeful. we have a lot of reason to look forward to getting out again. >> yes, we do. >> but if you're not vaccinated -- >> you're not there yet. >> be careful. >> joining us now, dr. peter hotez, dean of the national school of tropical medicine at baylor college of medicine and co-director of the texas children's hospital center for vaccine development. he is author of the book "preventing the next pandemic:

vaccine diplomacy in a time of anti-science. i certainly want to ask you about those that are concerned about the vaccine and vaccine hesitancy in just a moment. but first, given the science, and i'm really just sort of emotionally, viscerally responding to the picture we just showed of spring breakers, all crowded together, using each other's phones and totally breathing all over each other, i mean, is this what is supposed to be happening right now if you don't have a vaccine? i know there are guidelines out there, there are different state in different communities saying, you can do this, you can do that, and there's a lot of sort of middle ground, misunderstanding about what one should be doing, but what should one be doing right now if they don't have the vaccine? should they be social distancing 6 feet apart and not going out? >> you know, mika, we're spiking the ball on the 20-yard line. we're not even -- we haven't even turned the corner on this

epidemic yet. the numbers are not even plateauing anymore. they're going up. they've gone from about 55,000 new cases a day to 60,000 new cases a day. we're seeing sharp increases in the northeast, new jersey, new york, massachusetts, connecticut, and those are the states we're actually overperforming on vaccinations, compared to the rest of the country. so we've only vaccinated about 28% of the u.s. population has gotten a single dose. big spike in the northeast, big spike in michigan now. and we're about to go on to our fourth wave, unless we can figure out a way to tamp this down. and you know, as was pointed out by the others, this is not in perpetuity. we are going to vaccinate our way out of this epidemic, starting in the summer. but not until the summer. we have another six weeks and these numbers are really going to start to go up. >> i feel like ed luce, this is almost a political problem. because if the president and his

cdc puts out very strict social distancing guidelines and really pulls back, i think there's going to be a wave of anger from a code of conduct and a way of life that was pushed by the trump administration, who promised that everything would be back to normal by last easter, and it would be like a miracle. >> yeah, i think there's an expectations management problem here. we are all expecting a return to normality quickly,and it might in fact take years for a pre-pandemic lifestyle that we're yearning to go back to become an actual reality. but i wanted to ask the doctor. the idea that all children should be vaccinated before schools can get back to normal something i've heard circulating

recently and some of the teacher's unions have been raising this, which would put in jeopardy a normal school year beginning in september. is that too pessimistic? and if it isn't, is it possible to get all the trials for children done in time, so that we can have a normal school year? >> well, i think things are going to be a lot easier starting in the fall than they've been for the last year. and a couple of reasons. first of all, i think teachers and staff will be fully vaccinated and the parents by the fall. i think we'll probably have the data to start vaccinating adolescents, so that junior high schools, middle schools, high schools could have pretty much everybody fully vaccinated by the fall. i think that's within the realm of possibility. i doubt we're going to have data for the little kid yet to support vaccinating younger kids. so we'll still have a bit of a rocky road in the elementary schools by 2022. next year, i think we'll vaccinate the younger kids. but no question, things are

going to be so much better for the fall school year. i think, yes, we can have a good fall school year, but we've got to dramatically lower transmission in this country. and with that b-117 variant, that is more transmissible, which is going to be the dominant variant in the u.s. for the foreseeable future. and the fact that it's higher lethality, higher morbidity and hospitalizations, and it's affecting younger groups now. we're starting to see in the upper midwest now, a lot of young adults going into hospitals and icus. we've got to get that under control. until we do that, we can't talk about much of anything. jonathan lemire? >> dr. -- thank you, mika. i wanted to follow up on that point, the demographics of the people that were getting sick right now. if you could tell us a little bit more about who is getting hill. we certainly know that the vaccines have has the highest penetration to seniors and that older americans are fully vaccinated now and more of them

and able to return to their normal lives. we've seen it's younger people getting sick. and connected to that, what is the latest research on the idea of a booster shot. i know that it seems like it's far away, so many americans haven't even gotten one dose yet, but the yesterday of, whether another dose be needed? is this going to be a seasonal thing that americans will always need covid-19 vaccinations? >> yeah, so a few things to unpack there. i think we are seeing a younger age groups going into hospitals now a lot of hard data on it, especially t upper midwest, younger adults getting sick. and that was more or less predicted when -- from the uk when we saw the b-117 variant really rise up in last september through october, november, december, last year. now we're starting to see something similar in the u.s. and that was the reason why i did everything i could to try to

try to encourage people not to participate in spring break. down here in texas, the b-177 variant is overwhelmingly the dominant variant and we're spreading it all over the country. in terms of booster shots, that's probably likely. if you get a two-dose pfizer/moderna vaccine, think of it as a three-dose vaccine right now. you'll need a booster later this year or next year. same with the johnson & johnson vaccine. think of it a two-dose vaccine later this year, and that will do a couple of things. one, it will increase your level of virus neutralizing antibodies and create better durability, longer-lasting protection. and it will likely be reconfigured a bit to look after the south african and brazil variants. so all of the vaccines work really well against the b-177 variant in the uk, so we're not worried about that. but there are other variants of concern out there from south africa and brazil that will become more important players

later on in the year or next year and that's the reason for the boost. i don't think we'll need an annual booster like flu. i'm hoping with that one extra booster, we might be done with it. of course, we don't know for certain. we're not doing anything to get this pandemic under control in africa and latin american. basically no one's getting vaccinated in africa for all practical purposes. basically no one's getting vaccinated in latin american. so when we let that pandemic get out of control, we know what happens. so that's a big unknown. >> dr. peter hotez, thank you very, very much, we appreciate your insight. we'll be reading your latest piece on how the anti-science movement is escalating. some strong warnings in that interview there. anna palpalmer, thank you as we. it's great to have you on the show. still ahead on "morning joe," the latest on the aftermath of the capitol hill riot, as president trump's former chief

of staff, mick mulvaney rejects trump's claim that the insurrectionists posed zero threat at all. >> and the debate on afghanistan once again bubbling to the surface. we'll be talking to ed luce, peter baker, jonathan lemire and others about that ongoing debate and where the white house goes with it next. debate and where the white house goes with it next mes to finding and buying your dream home, we'll be there to make it happen. we'll be there when you want better rates too. or to get money for retirement. we'll be there because we work only with veteran families like yours to help you get the most life out of a home for the life of your family it's a thirteen-hour flight, that's not a weekend trip. fifteen minutes until we board. oh yeah, we gotta take off. you downloaded the td ameritrade mobile app so you can quickly check the markets? yeah, actually i'm taking one last look at my dashboard

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as president biden decides whether to meet a may 1st deadline to withdraw troops from afghanistan, a newly disclosed intelligence assessment shows some u.s. officials believe the military should stay. "the new york times" is reporting that american intelligence agencies have told the biden administration that if u.s. troops leave before a power-sharing settlement is reached between the taliban and the afghan government, the country could fall largely on to the control of the taliban

within two or three years after the withdrawal of international forces. ed luce, in your new column for the "financial times," entitled "the puzzle of joe biden's middle class foreign policy," you write in part, quote, one of the most striking aspects of biden administration is the gulf and tone between his foreign and domestic policies. on the home front, biden has thrown caution to the winds, nearly the reverse is true of his relatively cautious approach to the world. the key to u.s. fortunes lies in how skillfully biden can do two things at once. bolster america's middle class while outflanking china on the global economic stage. the good news is that biden is making headway on the first. the bad news is, he cannot afford to wait until his punitive re-election before taking political risks on the

second. the global economy will not wait for biden to make up his mind. >> but on the issue of afghanistan, ed, obviously, this is a policy decision that has haunted past presidents, barack obama, of course, added more troops. donald trump ride to get all of the troops out by the end of his presidency. wasn't able to do that. remove troops from syria, who were a small number, who had a small footprint, but were doing extraordinary things there. we, of course, removed troops from iraq in 2011. very bad things followed in that power vacuum. joe biden saying he wants the troops out of afghanistan, but as your column suggests, it's steady as it goes for him and his foreign policy toward that troubled country. >> yeah, i mean, biden has a long history of being skeptical of america's presence in afghanistan. he was, of course, the person

who argued most strenuously against the troop surge during the obama administration. and then, of course, succeeded by trump, he wanted to get out of afghanistan. the deal trump did was just with the taliban, not with the government in kabul. the democratically -- well, i put quotation marks around that, but the much-less illegitimate government based in kabul, under asher afghani. and they, i think, quite understandably, have been complaining that you are leaving us to our fate with the taliban, who are, you know, getting more and more powerful as each week passes. they're getting support from elements within pakistan, as has always been the case. and so biden is now faced with this choice. get out by may the 1th, which was trump deadline, under the deal he reached with the taliban, in which case watch this country once again descend

into, you know, a very dangerous civil war situation. or stay on, keep the 3,500 troops that are there in place, try to forge a new deal that includes kabul, not just the taliban, which could take months or years and still not work. so biden has no good options. this terrible, catastrophic, disastrous, or worse. he has to sort of pick the least-worst of this. and i suspect, as that "new york times" report indicated, that he's going to end up keeping 3,500 troops in afghanistan. >> yeah, and peter baker, there's been a long history of joe biden being a skeptic. i'm going to make sure this wasn't yours -- no, i wanted to make sure i wasn't quoting one of your stories from 2009. i was looking up very quickly, that scene where joe biden and

senators were with karzai who claimed there was absolutely no corruption in afghanistan. joe biden, then vice president stood up, threw his napkin down, and said, this dinner is over. you take that skepticism with the skepticism that he had about adding troops to afghanistan. and ed's right, he is long been a skeptic about america's presence in afghanistan. but the question, he was there when barack obama removed the troops from iraq. the question is, what replaces those american troops. what fills that void? "the new york times," your paper said last week, it might be isis. >> yeah, the argument is, look, for a very small investment, that is 3,500 troops is a relatively small number of people. you manage to keep a certain stability in a country that actually has mattered to us for 20-some years. you know, we're not in a lot of active combat. it's not like there's a lot of casualties every day. and so for, you know, a

relatively small investment, we prevent a resurgence of isis or al qaida or any other kind of extremist elements in afghanistan the way we saw prior to the 9/11 attacks. and by the way, we also keep faith with our commitment to women and girls in afghanistan who came out and began to emerge in a very harsh society, largely because there were foreign elements there to say, it's okay. we're going to help defend a government that will, you know, resist this sort of taliban repression that they suffered for so many years, prior to 2001. now, you can understand why a president doesn't find that particularly palatable. a president who throws down his napkin and says, you aren't being straight with me. afghanistan has defied the president with in terms of his ability. the president thinks he ought to be manage world events and define the terms of his

engagement and afghanistan defies them each and every time. there's simply no way that you can get from where they are today to the point where you would like to get them. the idea of an endless occupation there, even if there's a small number, feels so discouraging, i think. that's why biden said, we're not going to be able to meet that may 1st deadline that trump set, but i can't imagine us being there next year. well, we'll see. i think that's a very open question. >> and jonathan lemire, again, joe biden has been very skeptical about our presence in afghanistan, but does he want to look up on the tv set a year from now and see isis burning people in cages like they did when we left iraq. does he want to see the taliban going through the streets and cutting off the heads of the young girls who dared to go to

school? because those scenes will unfold on tv sets and just like in iraq, just like in iraq, we're going to be forced to send troops back there. we're never going to be able to rebuild the country. never, it can't be rebuilt. the only thing we can do is stop this power void, this void of power from causing mass chaos to spread across that country. so the question is, at the end of the day, does joe biden take the risk of having a repeat in afghanistan that he saw happen in iraq? >> right, it's about weighing that risk, joe. and creating a vacuum and what forces may fill it. and certainly, intelligence officials believe those forces wouldn't be ones of good. i think it is very clear biden and his -- you know, his instinct is to bring these troops home. we know how personally, you know, he feels about the american military. his son, beau, of course, also a

veteran. also documented just now,he's long been a skeptic of the afghanistan mission to begin with. but he is going to have to con front those global implications and what could happen to his decisions and already you're seeing a little bit of he has hesitancy and wavering in getting those deadlines out. and even as he says 2022 is his target date to try to get them out, i think there's a sense that at least some troops, some presence will be left there. no decision an made yet, but that's a possible avenue in order to prevent a worst-case scenario, even though if it's not the ideal situation of president biden wants. >> ed luce and peter baker, thank you both for being on this morning. coming up, new research on democratic voters and whether the party is overlooking a key part of its electorate. "morning joe" is coming right bank account. ectorate "morning joe" is coming right

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house speaker nancy pelosi announced on friday that major general william walker, the head of the d.c. national guard will become the next house sergeant at arms. walker, who according to politico had a 39-year military career was an agent in the drug enforcement administration will be the first african-american chief of house security. he secedes paul irving. walker has provided key information about the timeline of events that led to the security breakdown on january 6th. in senate testimony earlier this month, he said he relayed an urgent plea from the head of the

capitol police to senior pentagon officials seeking backup for the overwhelmed police force, but the request was not granted for another three hours. >> that's unbelievable. >> meanwhile, former president trump on friday put out a tweet-like statement, referring to john durham, the special prosecutor appointed by former attorney general bill barr to investigate the origin origins russia probe that led to the mueller investigation. though durham resigned his position, he continues investigating. joining us now are nbc investigations report from tom winter and state attorney for palm beach county, florida, dave aaronberg. reporter, tom winter. >> tom, it's always great to

have you. what is durham likely to find? are you hearing anything on the current status of that investigation? >> well, it's kind of been crickets. so the special counsel discussion which used to list all of robert mueller's prosecutions, the russians that are still outstanding that they were looking for for the interference in the 2016 election. his budget, his expenditures, what robert mueller spent in his office spent has been completely wiped away. and now there's just a single entry to this letter from bill barr back in october, authorizing this appointment of john durham as special counsel. we don't have any information as far as what he's spending or an idea of what his staff is. when you look at his former number two, she left the investigation a long time ago. so how much investigating is really going on? and then when i look at the appointment letter by barr, it talks about looking into law enforcement activities,

intelligence gathering activities that are tied to the 2016 election, especially the special counsel's probe, also cross-fire hurricane, which was the initial opening of these cases by the fbi. first off, robert mueller was given a specific set of guidelines and kind of the rules of the road for him to follow. i've looked at all of those cases and i can't find a nexus to where any of those cases were open improperly, based on what he was tasked to do. as far as cross fire hurricane, the fbi has a massive handbook. it's called the domestic investigations and operations guide, the diog, it's called. and i'll read one sentence from it. they can look at conduct constituing a threat to the national security, an individual group or organization that may be involved in criminal or national security threatening conduct. when you look at paul manafort or you look at some of the people that the fbi initially looked at and what was going on with the 2016 election interference, i just find that it's going to be very difficult for john durham to say that those investigations weren't

properly opened. >> well, you have to -- it's a great point, tom. because dave aaronberg, look, i heard the complaints as they came in and they were ideologically driven. they were really trump-driven. you have people that were in the personality cult that had a tron reason to try to push back on absolutely everything. but the fbi in any other age would have been harshly criticized if they looked at the information they had on carter page and didn't dig into it deeper. if they had the information they had on paul manafort and didn't dig into it deeper. if they have the spate of trump appointees who had lied repeatedly about their contact with russians and the fbi didn't look into it, they would have been eviscerated by oversight

committees, they would have been eviscerated on cable news, they would have been eviscerated by historians, by editorial boards. again, you stack up the fact patterns and it is hard to find one that durham or anybody is going to be able to criticize saying, well, they really, really shouldn't have opened that investigation against paul manafort. he's just a good guy who is just trying to make his country better. >> joe, this investigation started as a mere administrative review of the origins and the conduct of the russia probe. and it morphed into a criminal investigation. and they did get one prosecution. and fbi lawyer who falsified an email relates to the carter page fisa warrant. but that prosecution came as a result of a referral from the inspector general's office of the department of justice. and that's my biggest problem with this whole durham

investigation, is that it's already been done. the inspector general at the doj already looked into this. they interviewed more than a hundred witnesses. they looked at more than a million documents and they found that the investigation was properly predicated. sure, some mistakes were made. and there was one criminal referral, but they found that there was no political bias in starting this investigation and they found that it was started when george papadopoulos, an aide to the trump campaign, was spouting off at a wine bar in london, where he bragged to an australian diplomat that the russians were about to drop all of these hacked e-mails that they stole from the hillary clinton campaign. that's why it started. and so to think now that it's just -- it's got this mind of its own, reinventing the wheel. and also, we know now joe, that there are more expensive trump contracts between the russians than we previously thought. paul manafort gave sensitive data including polling information to konstantin

kilimnik, who is a russian and intelligence officer. you don't have to believe me or bob mueller about this. that was the findings of the republican-led senate intelligence committee. what else is there to cover and why is it taking so long? >> you know, it's -- i'm amused by so-called reporters, if they're useful idiots for russia or if they're on russia's payroll, but there are gifted writers who spend all night and day trying to dig through looking for incidents of where the press screwed up on russia's stories, pushing this russian hoax fallacy. it's a joke, because if you look at the totality of it, if you look at the totality of everything that happened, yeah, the media screwed up at some point. and sometimes they screwed up badly. but more often than not, they got it right and they got most of it right. and so as a prosecutor, dave,

rev and i have been talking about the george floyd case in minneapolis this week. -- if you're looking at this case as a prosecutor, what are you the most concerned about? where is that reasonable doubt going to come into mind that you have to work against, to make sure that the jury does not acquit? >> two areas, joe. although the video is very powerful, there's the question of causeuation. the defense is going to argue that it wasn't the knee on george floyd's neck that caused his death, but rather his underlying health conditions, the presence meth and fenyl in his system. and they're going to argue that chauvin was just following police procedures. so if you can show just that there was a question about

causation or maybe that chauvin was following police procedures, that could be enough reasonable doubt to get at least a hung jury if not an acquittal. i think the video is so powerful. in the end, he will be convicted of either third-degree murder, maybe even murder. >> rev, final thoughts on the case? you are out there. what can you tell our viewers this morning? >> final thoughts are, i think eight minutes and 46 seconds says it all. that's why we tell people to stand as we go in the courtroom today. all of what they are saying in the defense cannot justify that in almost nine minutes, this officer could not have heard the plea for this man's life and turned around and did something different. all of what they are saying notwithstanding cannot justify the length of time he pressed his whole body into his knee and listened to none of the pleas of this man for his life.

i don't care what was in the man's body. i don't care what was in his background. in nine minutes, someone sworn to protect the law should have been able to get up and spare this man losing his life. >> with everybody around the police officers begging them to get up, as he was calling for his mother. dave, thank you so much. tom, as always, we greatly appreciate you being with us. come back soon. this is what you would call in the business, a hard turn. let's go to sports analyst roger bennett who is going blue this morning, wearing the michigan -- wearing his michigan colors. alabama last night, roger, well, they apparently never practiced taking free throws. because they shot under 50% from the free throw line.

if they actually could sink free throws like a jv basketball team, they would be going to the elite eight right now. unfortunately, they looked like me in fourth grade from the line. >> mike smith tribute, go blue. i'm going to get a williams college one for you. >> thank you. it will be purple. >> let's talk about a little football frenzy, my friend. >> it's an international break. most mighty nations around the world start qualifying for the men's world cup, 2022. that process doesn't start until september for our united states men. they played a friendly against a modern northern ireland, looking to rebound for the national humiliation of failing to qualify for the 2018 tournament. average age, 23 years, 27 days. our babies toiled against a physical minute. the 18-year-old of new york,

long range shot, deflected. you miss 100% of the shots you don't take, wayne gretzy. he converts a penalty himself. usa will host the world cup. give us the trophy now, america. not so soon. northern ireland, a rory mcilroy with a driver strike master blaster. what a goal. the greatest thing out of northern ireland. the u.s. able to win. first win in our nation's history or british or irish turn. don't read too much into friendlies. it's so bloody fantastic to watch our american men play and feel optimistic again.

>> how does this american team compare to others you have seen through the years? >> it's young. we used to dream of our men playing against the likes of barcelona, chelsea, powerhouses in europe. now our young guys -- they are all young, 18, 19, 20, 21. now they start for those teams. we are living in remarkable times. we have to stay calm. i know that watching the english national team raise hopes and then doom them. should we look at england? >> let's do that. >> looking for their second win in a week. they faced albania in the same way prince william is the world's sexiest bald man. it lasted until the 38th minute. albanian defenders, scoop, there it is. 2-0. england's biggest victory on

albanian turf. cannot wait for the world cup. just over a year away. >> it's going to be exciting. that's the one that is going to be in november, in 138 degree weather? >> yes. a truck was backed up to fifa world headquarters, it was given to qatar. there was crazier ones, the dark side of the moon or florida. the other news is a report that shows 6.5 foreign workers have died building the gulf state to be world cup ready. a number of the teams have

started to protest that death toll starting on wednesday with the norwegian national team who wore human rights shirts followed by the german team who stood before their game and made a protest. it's going to be absolutely fascinating to watch whether this movement grows. world cups have always been used for propaganda purposes. mussolini, argentina dictators, putin in 2018. t-shirts won't change anything. it is going to be fascinating to see football try to take a lead on this complex issue. >> all right, roger, thank you very much. we will be tuning in to "men in blazers" on nbc sports network. roger bennett, just weird. thank you very much. >> so awesome. still ahead, andrew cuomo is facing growing calls to resign, even from top democrats. new polling shows many voters

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look at it this way. the first time we have an excuse. there were about 100,000 deaths that came from that original surge. all of the rest of them, in my mind, could have been mitigated or decreased substantially if we

took the lessons we had learned from that moment. that's what bothers me every day. >> that dr. birx, the former white house covid response coordinator saying most of the 551,000 u.s. coronavirus deaths could have been prevented. imagine that. we're at a point where we have been so shocked by what we have seen over the past four years, what we saw with the capitol riots. we have been so shocked by the botching, the mismanagement and lying during the trump administration, during this pandemic, america has lost 551,000 people. she was inside, a scientist saying, all of those fatalities, much of them, many of them could have been prevented.

social distancing guidelines, a race to a vaccine, masking, managing this pandemic actually, even though it would have taken a lot of sacrifice on the part of american people, was easy to lead through. you had to work to be as bad as the last president and to allow so many people to die. >> yeah. really, it just comes down to a president needing to have told the truth. refused to do that from the beginning. you have seen the clips. the president saying that things weren't bad. it was only one person coming in from china. soon it was going to be gone. the president saying the next month it was 15 people coming in, saying that to a michigan rally that soon they were all going to be gone. the president telling republican members of the senate, just relax. this is all going away. nothing to worry about.

the president telling african-american leaders, don't worry about this. it's going to go away. you will see, just like magic. then he started talking about easter. we will be back by easter. we will all -- >> bleach in your skin. >> use bleach. all of these things. it's good to hear somebody who was alongside the president every step of the way saying what historians will likely say. >> scientists. >> members of trump's cult will push back upon. that is that he was responsible for a large number of these deaths just because he denied in public what he admitted privately to bob woodward, that this was a deadly virus, it was a killer. it's something that he just didn't want to get out because he cared more about the bottom line, the stock market, the dow jones, than he did the lives of millions -- >> or his daily headline. it's important to look back, as

painful as it is, to look back at every step of how everything unfolded in the trump president presidentsy. the trump affect, the trump following, it's not necessarily gone. it's not behind the united states of america. in many ways that we will discuss during the show today and in the days to come, it's still very much an ongoing proposition. welcome to "morning joe." with us we have white house reporter for the associated president jonathan lemire, president of the national action network reverend al sharpton and co-founder of punch bowl news, anna palmer is with us this morning. it's great to have you all on board. the latest poll shows widespread

approval for president biden's top priorities. 75% approve of his handling of vaccine distribution. 72% approve of his handling of the pandemic overall. 60% approve of how he is handling the economic recovery. >> so that's -- >> stop right there. >> that's good news. jonathan, you look at those three numbers, you have a president who is doing extraordinarily well with the american people. actually has a majority of support on the two most important issues right now, that is getting vaccines out there and also handling the epidemic, the pandemic. doing well with the economic recovery. that's one side of the coin there. the positive side. we will get to the negative in a second. how is the biden team feeling about how they are doing and how they need to stay one step ahead? >> this, of course, is their central focus. he was elected more than anything beyond just simply not

being donald trump, was to manage this crisis. our worst health crisis in a century. they feel good about where they are, particularly after the first couple weeks, they really ramped up vaccine manufacturing and distribution. that's a huge win for them. it can't be overstated how much better things are in terms of getting vaccines out the door into the arms of americans. long ways to go. are there people hesitant? yes. that's a huge strength. they like the positive signs from the economy. the administration feels like biden has momentum right now because he is handling this. they believe this can lead to his being able to push through other parts of the agenda. they have said, this was job one. they feel good about where they are. >> anna palmer, the president does, as jonathan said -- his people feel like he has wind at his back, especially as it pertains to covid and it helps him push democrats forward and

maybe unite them a little more as he moves forward to whether it's infrastructure or voting rights. >> absolutely. i think basically, joe biden is in the strongest position he possibly could be. a lot of people were skeptical he was going to be able to move as aggressively to get covid relief done. that's been a success. the rollout has been a success. the question is wednesday, build back better. do democrats coalesce around infrastructure, a more complicated, probably more divisive in terms of what the priorities should be, whether it's clean jobs or other things. can he continue that momentum? republicans are concerned about those poll numbers. they are not talking about covid relief. they are talking about the border. that's because if you look at those polls, joe biden is in a very strong position. >> when it comes to the president's handling of the

border crisis, 57% approve, 41% -- sorry, disapprove. 57% disapprove and 41% approve. the president is also underwater when it comes to his handling of gun violence. after two high profile mass shootings just over 42% approve, 57% disapprove. >> those are -- >> i don't understand that. >> those are harder to dig into, reverend al. some on the right may think that he is doing too much when it comes to proposing new gun safety legislation. others may think on the left that he is not doing enough. let's talk about that border crisis. it's been a mess along the border. you know it's concerning when some people in the administration and also in left wing media go, there's not a crisis at the border. nothing to see here, move along. this is just regular migration

flow when that's not what we are hearing from people on the ground. that's not what we are hearing from experts in this field. what does the president need to do? >> what we are seeing at one level when people say this is the normal rise during the spring because of the terrain across central america is easier to travel, but there is even a surge above that. i think the president needs to deal with the facts. be honest. i think the reason he has gotten such high marks and high polling in the area of covid-19 is because he has come off as a straight shooter. he must be a straight shooter about what's happening at the border. a lot of it is because of people in central and south america feel that he is a more humane president and an understanding president than his predecessor in trump.

a lot of it -- most of it is what people are running from. we must look at the fact, people do not leave their countries, risk their children, unless they are running from something they feel that is more dire. he must analyze how he can deal with leveraging those countries to do things that would make their citizens not want to leave and have agh humane policy at t border but also stop the surge. i do not think he needs to be trump-like and try to cover what is going on. there's a natural surge, but it's even beyond that. we need to deal with that and deal with it in a square and fair way to the public. >> jonathan, taking care of the problem at the source with the foreign aid, that is, of course, more of a longer term solution. it certainly needs to be done. it works. joe biden and his campaign team and his political team inside

white house are not going to look at these numbers where he is doing great on just about every other issue but the border and sit back and do nothing. what do you expect them to do? how do you expect them to adjust politically over the next week to those numbers? i know he started doing that with some of the things he said at the press conference. he took a more moderate, more tough stand than he initially did. what do we expect this coming week? >> a couple things here, joe. you are right, his rhetoric changed a little bit last week. importantly, let's remember, he appointed vice president kamala harris to lead the initial response to the situation at the border. that's a big deal. this is her first real major piece of her portfolio. it shows the administration is taking this very seriously. that's a signal there, too. they are working overtime to expand facilities there at the border. they are looking to change their approach somewhat here in the coming days allowing more media

access, i should point out. but you are right, this is also a political situation. it's a humanitarian crisis, of course, at the border. but it's also politics. of course it is. they are wary -- this is the first time republicans laid a glove on them. we saw how popular the covid relief bill was. the republicans left it alone. no one voted for it. republican lawmakers saw how popular it was with their own constituents but they focused on mr. potato head. here, they seized the border as an issue where they can score points, even if it led to images like that odd trip down to the border from republican senators ted cruz and lindsey graham a few days ago. the white house is aware of that. this is one where they have taken a few hits. they are looking to push back. it starts with setting a more aggressive agenda, including putting the vice president on the head of the team. it's been a tough month for new york governor andrew cuomo. multiple investigations.

calls for his resignation from top democrats. what do voters think? we will have the new numbers. you are watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

♪♪ we have been talking about polls. everybody is curious about what the president is doing in his polls. a fascinating poll about andrew cuomo that came out yesterday. we were starting to see hints of over the past week or two. black voters in new york have remained loyal to andrew cuomo. the base of the democratic party has remained loyal. now his overall numbers, after being buffeted with weeks,

months of really bad press and some really serious stories, his poll numbers have stabilized. >> the latest morning poll shows the approval rating for new york governor andrew cuomo is stabilizing in the wake of two scandals threatening his career. on february 11th, cuomo was riding a wave of support from the pandemic. he was at 63% approval when the news broke that his administration withheld data on nursing home deaths from covid. about two weeks later, just before a former aide accused him of sexual harassment he had dropped to 56%. over the past month, more accusers have come forward. he has only dropped about three points. now at 53% approval. these latest numbers are similar to other surveys conducted over the past few days that suggest the decline in cuomo's approval

is leveling off. joe, he had it coming from the nursing home scandal alone, you would think would be a pretty debilitating hit on -- especially given i think a lot of people really looked up to him during the pandemic. a lot still do, obviously. the nursing home crisis and the after affects, the hidden numbers, i put that in quotes, you would think would take a hit on his leadership numbers, especially because he wrote that book on leadership. you know what? that on top of several accusations that have been highly publicized, put on national networks, tv networks, interviews with women who say that the governor sexually harassed them, fairly young women. and you would think the meter would have moved a little more. >> this isn't -- this is not a

new phenomenon, as we know. rev, we saw donald trump supporters, people in donald trump's tribe stayed with him through thick and thin. on the state level, look at ralph northum. they were calling for him to get out. same thing with his lieutenant governor. both of them said they weren't going anywhere. the democratic base stayed with them. black voters stayed with them. that's what's happening right now with andrew cuomo. new york assembly is not going to be able to impeach the guy if 75% of the democrats are supportive and most black voters are supportive of him. >> i think what we must deal with the fact that the charges that have been suggested against governor cuomo with the nursing home numbers and the multiple

charges by women are serious. but people also feel that people have the right to defend themselves. i think because we have become so accustom in the country now to seeing public figures accused, that we are waiting to say, wait a minute, let us see what happens when they are given the opportunity to defend themselves. i'm not surprised that governor cuomo's numbers did not go down, particularly in the black community. i was giing it every day on my show. the polling numbers reflect what i'm getting. it does not take away from the seriousness of what happen charged. people are serious about, you have to have do more than just make an accusation for me to go against someone. tech companies struggle to keep capitol hill rioters from

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♪♪ some of those faces charges in the capitol riot are raising their legal fees online. riot defendants are using an expanded network of online platforms to crowdfund their legal fees, despite a crackdown by tech companies. reading from the report, the capitol riot extremists and others are engaging these companies in a game of cat and mouse as they spring from one fund-raising tool to another, using new sites, user names and accounts. in one case, a crowdfunding website set up in late 2020 has been adopted by a defendant charged with storming the capitol who used it to raise almost $180,000. his was one of eight fund-raisers on the site as of last week. his donations accounted for 84%

of money raised on that platform. last week, former president trump told fox news that rioters who broke into the capitol on january 6th were hugging and kissing police and posed zero threat to lawmakers. >> that's just -- >> it's sick. >> that's shocking. what do you say to the families of those police officers -- >> maimed and killed. >> who are dead and beaten and abused by american flags? who had their heads shoved in a vice into doors. how sick can you be denying that and hating police officers so much, hating cops so much that you are willing to say something like that? >> trump's former chief of staff speaking over the weekend didn't see it that way. >> i was surprised to hear the president say that yesterday or earlier this week or something like that. clearly, there were people who were behaving themselves and people who absolutely were not.

to come out and say everybody was fine and there was no risk, that's false. people died. other people were severely injured. there are videos of folks protesting peacefully. it's not right to say there was no risk. i don't know how you can say that when people were killed. >> the lie continues. you have donald trump saying this. basically throwing police officers under the bus, suggesting that they were never in danger, that they were treated wonderfully, when we know the horrors that they had to endure, that many of them had to endure. it's donald trump. it's ron johnson. they are lying through their teeth. everybody knows they're lying through their teeth. and yet, they continue to lie. what is the up game for them -- this would be like a leader trying to paper over 9/11 and

said, no, no, no, the islamic extremists actually treated the pilots very well or whatever analogy you want to draw. here you have police officers being brutalized with american flags. police officers having their heads shoved into doors. one officer lying down on the ground, being beaten and saying that he knows that he is not going to survive and he is wondering how his four daughters are going to live without him. another police officers sprayed with bear spray who died later. this is so deeply offensive. these police officers and their families, to pretend this never happened, it's so deeply offensive. kevin mccarthy also screaming at the president of the united

states asking for help. the president refusing help when other republicans called. mike pence stuck there with his family while these trump terrorists were chanting, hang mike pence, hang mike pence. donald trump never came. in fact, he tweeted inflammatory rhetoric about mike pence after he found out that mike pence had been rushed from the chamber. donald trump is saying that these police officers -- you hear the screaming from that police officer? donald trump is saying that the police were treated wonderfully. ron johnson is saying, there was never any risk, there was never any threat at the united states capitol. it's just breathtaking. i don't see what the up side is for them? what is the political

calculation here? >> it's hard to understand. it's so divorced from reality, the stark pictures we are watching. it's not as if this happen and nobody saw it and that the entire world wasn't completely absorbed and watching in horror as the country that is supposed to be standing for freedom and democracy is being overrun by its own people. i think it's -- ron johnson is an outlier on capitol hill. when you talk to members of congress, when you talk to leadership, republicans and democrats, there's a lot of fear right now as a member of congress. they feel like they're under attack. you are seeing more members than i have ever seen in 15 plus years of covering with congress with security detail, not just leadership for members you would expect, but rank and file members getting serious threats based on what the president and some of his sporters are -- his supporters are pushing. this is not a one-off event.

we have security fencing going down around the capitol. everybody is on high alert here. i don't understand exactly what donald trump is doing except he wants the supporters to continue to support him. that's very, very important to whatever his calculation is for his next business venture or future in politics. it's absolutely just totally separate and apart from what most people in washington understand was the truth and most people in the world. coming up, a fascinating element of the 2020 election that democrats are still trying to figure out. how they lost ground with latino voters in florida and texas. some new insight next on "morning joe."

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welcome back. republicans and democrats made visits to the southern border. their takeaways couldn't be more different. house democrats toured a facility for unaccompanied migrant children while republicans headed to the border along the rio grande. >> the biden administration is taking people who are testing positive for covid-19 and locking them in cages side by side. this is inhumane. it's wrong. it is the direct consequence of policy decisions by the biden administration to stop building the wall, to return to catch and release and to end the stay in mexico policy. >> we are glad to see the administration -- biden administration is building out the capacity to handle kids, the kids who presented themselves for asylum. the right destination for the kids is with their family or relative sponsored. it does take time to process

them. they are better off here than they are in the cbp processing centers where we have seen not just in the last week or so but even before in years past the conditions at the cbp processing centers where you have people sleeping with aluminum blankets and so forth. this is a better situation for them. it's not the right situation for them. >> you look at those two representatives from two different parties. it's so clear that ted cruz represents donald trump's party of gestures. donald trump had his cabinet vote on caging children as a deliberate policy. >> didn't see him gesturing then. >> i didn't see him being shocked when children were ripped from their mother's arms. i didn't see him screaming about the wall when republicans

controlled the house and the senate in 2017 and 2018 and had a republican president. you had one republican after another, like lindsey graham, john cornyn and a lot of other republicans saying, the wall wasn't the answer. they promised to build the wall and have mexico pay for it. then they have a chance to build the wall. but they don't really build the wall. it's gestures. ted cruz talking about the cruelty, it's really -- it's so cynical. if it weren't just such bad faith, it would be laughable how cynical he is. but it's complete and total bad faith. he knows it. he knows everybody knows he is lying. he knows that everyone knows that he didn't say a word when children were caged, he didn't say a word when donald trump enforced an extraordinarily cruel policy along the border

that deliberately -- deliberately separated children from their parents. that was their policy. they discussed it. they voted on it. >> there he is on the border with mexico where he went creating international headlines when his own state didn't have water during a snowstorm and he went off to stay at the ritz or wherever with his family and then lied about it and blamed it on his daughters. >> what's new? >> then comes back and is now along the rio grande pretending that he is in the rough, in danger, making these weird gestures, these weird videos. what a weird, weird presentation. >> strange thing to do. didn't say a word. didn't complain over four years of some of the most hateful immigration policy in the u.s. history. >> it's bad faith.

a new report underscores democrat messaging shortfalls with latino voters in the 2020 election. a survey found that by the time democrats started paying attention to latino voters in key texas and florida districts, republicans had already embedde and biden to socialism. as nbc latino reports, when democrats and their allies finally did spend money, they hired white-owned media firms that used spanish speaking voiceover actors who narrated over stock photos and video. joining us now, democratic strat strategist chuck rocha. the group did the questioning of latino voters. also with us, msnbc contributor

victoria soto and jim messina. and jonathan lemire is here as well. >> chuck, you first. i kept hearing warnings, trying to tell democrats, republicans i had known for 20 years, let me tell you what we are finding in miami-dade. the socialism stuff that all of your democratic friends say is not having an impact, it's having an impact. de-fund the police stuff your democratic friends is saying is not having an impact, it's having an impact. there are a lot -- my god, would democratic leaders in washington not consider for a second what the republicans on the ground knew? there are a lot of hispanics in miami-dade who are police officers or retired police officers or firefighters or retired firefighters. there's a real community there. the final thing had to do with the pandemic.

a lot of hispanics wanted their businesses to reopen. i'm just wondering, chuck, will 2020 be enough for democrats in washington, d.c. to finally realize that hispanics are not one homogenous group? there are conservative hispanics that they also have to worry about. >> you couldn't be more right. it's like you wrote the report. you looked at the last 30 days in miami-dade and found democrats spent $14 million -- that would be cool most of the time if you had done it in july. republicans spent $6 million. democrats spent twice as much but underperformed by 20 minutes. to your messaging point, we sent mail out to persuadable democrats in austin. we have run a lot of campaigns. i have seen three or four mail pieces come back with something ugly on it.

we got back 300 pieces of mail with socialist or traitor or communist sent back to us. we tried to say, something happening. when we delve into the research, we found trump and the republicans had people on the ground -- we were telling people to stay home and not canvas. they were in the community. one after another, it brings home this final point that you made is we are not a monolith. i grew up in east texas. i grew up listening to -- i'm different than a miami cuban but we are still latino voters. >> still a lot of his culturally conservative elements in a lot of hispanic latino communities. you are so right. it shouldn't be that hard to figure out. when hispanic voters are scrawling on -- socialist --

they are not thinking about aoc. they are thinking about the leaders in nicaragua, they are thinking about the tyrants in cuba, they are thinking about the tyrants in venezuela. this is not about american politics. i have talked to people that have immigrated from other parts of the world who said, i came to america for freedom. i want the government off my back. i'm not making -- this is not coming from me. i'm not making a political statement myself. i'm just repeating what i have heard time and time again. it sounds like you did, too. >> we also found out -- that drives home the point. the socialist thing was part of the columbians. research shows how it moved the columbians. in places like texas, think about 168,000 people who voted in a county that's 90% latino. we found out that 53,000 of these people, latinos, were new

voters. 9,800 had registered after the democratic primary. the republicans had built infrastructure there and went into the community when the democrats didn't spend money there because of the elections in the valley are in the primary, not the general. >> jim, here is the bigger challenge for democrats. a lot of people say, you know trump, he campaigned a lot in miami-dade. you can go -- you can look at hispanic numbers in california, hispanic numbers in massachusetts, look at hispanic numbers in new york state, in places where there wasn't a lot of campaigning, because it wasn't competitive, and you still had hispanic movement toward the republican party for many of the same reasons that chuck is talking about in miami-dade. >> yeah. i agree. there's a couple things to unpack here. the first is, our inability to

canvas. we were not on the doors talking to these voters as they were deciding. the second, the democratic party has got to get around to the notion that we have messaging problems. the thing you said that i agree with the most and you and i have talked about, they are not a monolith. they are different in some of the places. my friend who is a state senator from texas said part of her deal isn't socialism, why we did so poorly down there, it's our embrace of the green new deal. the fact that we were bleeding energy voters who are latino voters in the rio grande valley in historic numbers. we have to look at some of our messaging and say, are we really appealing to all the voters we can? i agree on the socialism point. we have to tackle this head on and say, look, we have a different vision for the future. if we're going to play defense, we're going to continue to bleed

with these incredibly important voters. we cannot assume that latino voters are part of our base. we have to treat them as persuadables and have a message to them that is compelling and isn't just a typical junk that we put out there the last 60 days of every election. >> the typical bland, generic junk that assumes that hispanic voters in miami-dade are the same as hispanic voters along the rio grande, the same as latino voters in arizona, the same as latino voters in nevada, it'ssulting. it's not like hispanic leaders haven't been saying this for decades but democrats won't hear it. the democratic party needs to now see hispanics as some right wing force? no. you just target hispanics like you target white people.

you figure out. right? what's their background? do they attend church regularly? do they do -- instead of just one insulting message. we are in trouble with hispanics. let's just do a national message to hispanics. that's insulting. >> joe, you and i were talking on a daily basis in october about the state of florida and how strong donald trump was there in part because of this latino vote. we see it that republicans did well with that base. we see a real sense from democrats that they took that -- they took the voters for granted. victoria, what is the -- other than perhaps -- to talk to latino voters like they are white voters like joe said, what els administration be doing? immigration is a major issue. it's dominating the headlines.

we will see some attempt at immigration reform on capitol hill. democrats can point to efforts to vaccinate latinos who suffer in the pandemic. there needs to be more of that done in the months ahead. i'm throwing the ball to you. what do you more of that in the months ahead. let's go the ball to you. what do you think we should be doing? >> i think we should do what chuck and his outfit did, do the research and these in-depth interviews and analysis. as we spoke about, latinos vary state to state. how latinos vote in north texas will be a lot different in how they vote in what matters to them over in the rio grande. so we have to invest the time, the money, the energy to go and talk to these folks. because as we saw in the 2020 election, the rio grande valley vote, that went to trump for a number of reasons, for energy reasons, for reasons dealing with law enforcement.

where as the law enforcement piece that jelled very well with latinos in the urban areas did not work with folks in rural areas. let's go to miami, they're the socialism piece rings very true. we need to do the research. the bottom line here is we can't assume. we can't assume that there is one message that's going to attract all latinos, say more expansionary immigration reform. that's not going to do it. we need to go in and microtarget. this is something we've seen campaigns do very well with other segments, to your point, joe, and it needs to be done with latinos as well. >> and i'm so glad victoria brought up immigration. one of the most frustrating parts for me even over the past 20 years is the assumption by -- i'll just say it -- by liberal white people in washington, d.c. and the democratic party that all hispanics want as liberal as

permissive an immigration policy as possible. they don't, that's an ignorant approach. just like, working class white voters don't really want a flood of immigrants because they believe it will drive down wages. union believes it will drive down wages. whether you agree with that or not, there's a lot of hispanics who believe the same thing. so we're not talking about radicalizing the message, but my god, there has to be nuance depending on where the district is even when it comes to immigration reform. >> joe, you're exactly right. what we've seen one campaign after another get wrong is when you think about checking the latino voter box, they go in and go we should do an immigration act. when our research, keep in mind we talked to over 5,000 latino voters in just five counties, one being miami-dade, the other texas valley. we said what were the number one reason, latino voters, that you went in and voted either for joe biden or donald trump, and they

said covid relief. when was the last time you saw a spanish-english ad on getting covid relief? next jobs in the economy, the other things in the polling out there, but this is where the regular establishment consultants get the nuance. you should talk about an immigration story. we're very prideful about where we come from, like an irishman or italian, but then talk about our core values around the country. >> this was a great discussion. as the country push as head with a vaccine appointment, one key area is the box office with new york city and los angeles joining the rest of the country in theaters operating at a limited capacity. our field team spoke to a cross section of the theater industry

about the lost year and what it will take for a wide scale return. ♪♪ let's go back in time march 1 last year, 2020. amc was the largest movie theater chain and most successful movie chain theater in the world. >> within a few days it was maybe i could close to no, we're closing everything. >> we went from $5.5 billion a year revenue to literally in a day no revenue at all. >> the hardest part in closing we had to layoff dozens of people. >> in a single day we had to furlough 5,000 people here and shut down venues. >> we tried to look at other

markets and say how do we open them safely and slowly. you have to make consumers actually safe and you also have to make them feel safe at the same time. >> part of our protocol for starting to reopen theaters is we want it to be the safest experience in time. >> the national association of theater owners developed a set of protocols called cinema safe and all chains have voluntarily agreed to comply, as have most independent. to this day we have zero case is of covid transmission traced to a movie theater. >> the president of the united states just said every american adult can be vaccinated by the end of may. that will make people confident enough to go out of their home, restart normal living again. we had more than 100,000 people in the past couple of months take a private theater at amc. >> we lean heavily into the private theater side of things,

which now now constitutes half of our revenue. >> the media happens there, talk shows. so in order to get the commensurate buzz to open a box office, you need california and new york. >> without manhattan and, of course, los angeles as well, the studies have not released movies exclusively to theaters and it's harmed our industry very, very dpeeply. >> when we open the theaters april 2, we are showing two films that can only be shown in theaters, they will not stream anymore. >> we think this summer blockbuster season will be much closer to a blockbuster season than a lot are predicting. >> we're still in a time period we're losing money but it's controllable. we have a view to the future. we try hard not to go into chapter 11. >> we try to pull to the studios we can pull off a good gross to keep the titles on the calendar.

>> i think once theaters over when you look at the economics, people will want to go back to theaters and streamers want both the publicity booths, marketing booths and also economics from the thee at that cal release. >> in the year before the pandemic, more than a billion movie theater tickets were sold in the united states, a billion. >> there's destruction of shrinking windows and effect of streamers on our business. >> most of our guests when they've been coming to the movies exit thankful they're able to have a out-of-home feeling normal experience, even if they didn't like the movie. >> many people we think will be ready to come back to the movies april and may. not everyone and people will come back when they feel safe. but we're looking forward to the day we will be fully operational. >> i think 100 years of movie going and social experience is not going to be undone by a one-year pandemic. >> we're craving getting out of the house, being with people, having extraordinary experiences outside of our living room. i look at movies honestly as a

bit of therapy for our connected life. it's the place where distractions are not allowed, lights are dark and you escape and have a wonderful journey. >> boy, it really is. it's wonderful -- i've always loved taking my kids to the theater and sitting there and watching shows, and we've seen some -- we've seen a movie or two during the pandemic. not as many as i would expect because you start it up and people are on their phones, people are zrarkted, they walk in and out. there's something very communal about taking your family, going with your friends to a movie theater. >> you love doing that with your boys. >> always have done it with my boys and everybody. cate and i. it's very exciting. i suspect we will be doing it again. thank you very much for jeff and scoot for putting that together.

jonathan, what are we expecting today at the white house? >> i will be at the white house and updating the nation on the progress of the vaccination effort. we know it's going well. we expect to hear more about their goals going forward and this week he's pivoting to the next step of his recovery act. it's going to be two parts, something on health care and childcare that will come later in april and on wednesday, we're getting infrastructure, infrastructure week at long last. the president will be traveling to pittsburgh. i will be part of that trip and we will start hearing about how big this plan is going to be and how bold it is going to be and how he hopes he can get some bipartisan support. >> jonathan, he pivots to infrastructure wednesday. you and i both know what he pivots to on thursday. it is opening day at fenway on thursday! >> opening day! >> your boston red sox against baltimore orioles.

it's going to be very exciting. and i'm sure i will see you there! that's where not only the white house but in fact all of america will be pivoting. baseball starts again april 1. >> okay. i see what my week looks like now. that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. hi, there, i'm stephanie ruhle. it's monday, march 29th, and we're about 90 minutes away from opening statements in the trial of derek chauvin. it is the beginning of one of the biggest cases in the history of minneapolis and our nation. a trial that will be broadcast live across the country for all the world to see. chauvin, of course, the ex-minneapolis police officer charged with second degree murder, third degree murder and manslaughter in the deaths of george floyd. last may video of chauvin