day two of testimony set to start in a few minutes at the murder trial for police officer derek chauvin. witness donald williams, the mma fighter, says he pleaded with chauvin to take the knee off of floyd's neck. emotional testimony with prosecutors releasing never before seen photos of him restraining floyd. it is a lot to take in. >> i asked for help. i got up and walked out. >> you walked out of the courtroom? >> yeah, i walked out of the family room. i could not watch it. >> just ahead, live with another member of the floyd family. good morning on this tuesday morning. i'm hallie jackson outside of the courtroom in minneapolis. joining by paul butler.

a professor at georgetown law. let me start with you, this will be the first full day of testimony. talk about what we're expecting and what we have seen in the last few minutes. i understand there is a chance that we will hear, but not see, from some people under the age of 8 that witnessed what happened to george floyd. >> yeah, there was two of them at the time of floyd's death. two of them that are now 18. in the past few minutes in the motions section of this trial judge cahill denied the state's request to keep their audio from being broadcast. so at this point the audio of those minor witnesses will be broadcast. video will not be allowed. however, we don't know company exactly they will be testifying but keep that in mind as we move

forward. we're looking forward to testimony starting starting in just a few moments. donald witness has a mixed martial arts background. and i spoke with him last year sortly after the incident and he was haunted by what he saw and he described that he told derek chauvin that the officer was placing george floyd under a kill choke, and he was restricting air flow. his defense is contentious. he has been asked for his background in mixed martial arts so they only hear from him on a limited basis. so he can't get into intent. if he strays, the prosecution trays into that territory for the defense to object.

but you heard earlier floyd's family will be in the courthouse. many of them will be in an overflow room. i spoke with brandon williams, the nephew, he was disturbed by that video played in it's entirety. he walked out. also today at the courthouse, george floyd's 7-year-old daughter and there is just no words here. this is an emotional second day of democrat. we saw protestors here last night, all eyes will be on that bystander continuing that testimony after a technical glitch from the testimony yesterday afternoon. >> gabe, thank you. what are you watching for in in a matter of minutes here.

>> so donald williams is the most prominent voice in the video, and his testimony was the most hostile to the defense. he said that chauvin was torturing george floyd. today he will be cross examined. the defense went relatively easy with the first two witnesses. they will ask questions like are you trained in police use of force. did you think calling chauvin bad names would make him listen to you. none of those would detract from his actions. >> as a defense attorney, how would you attack on this how

would you tak them on? >> i think it will distract from the main mmts. i agree that his. is fearing into the expert witness testimony. he is a lay witness in this case. i would object to some of the technical aspects of that. they are trying to say that in the space of this video evidence that is really quite incriminating, that if not the 9:29 that it was not his knee, but that it was methamphetamines and fentanyl. that is a very difficult argument to make. >> someone else that wed heard

from was a police dispatcher that was watching. i want to play part of her testimony. >> what did you think when you looked back and it had not changed. >> i asked if the screens had frozen. >> why? >> because it had not changed. >> was it frozen? >> no. >> did you see the screen change yourself? >> what did you start thinking at that point? that something might be wrong. >> what do you think the significance is of her testimony. is this something we might hear them come back to? >> yes, absolutely. incredibly powerful. the jurors would see the police calling the police on the police. so witness number one, this 911 anticipator, very credible.

thee has seen it all, what she saw derek chauvin doing was different. she says officers sitting on mr. floyd so long she thought the video was frozen. so she snitched. that's the word she used. she called a police sergeant because it just did not look right to her. incredibly powerful testimony against a police officer from another law enforcement agent. >> we saw derek chauvin in court. it seemed like a lot of times on camera he was writing down notes, not making a lot of eye contact with the juror. jury. is that something a client might be instructed to do? >> absolutely i do it with my clients all of the time. it's very difficult for a criminal department to sit at a

trial and watch witness after witness get on the stand and testify to things they may not agree with. that jury is watching derek chauvin. so instead of tapping his lawyer on the shoulder or whispering hey, i don't agree with this, what i will tell my clients to do is write it down, capture that down on the paper. you don't want the jury to see you looking angry. >> thank you to you both. great reporting, i know we'll see you throughout the day here on nbc news with the trial. i want to bring in a cousin of george floyd as well. thank you very much for being with us. you're the president of the george floyd foundation. you were in the court overflow room yesterday. how is the family doing after

what was obviously an emotional day one? >> it was a tough day for me. it was the first day that i saw the video in it's entirety. it was just very disturbing to watch that play out. >> can you tell me more about that? i assumed you had seen parts before, but not the full thing and not that kind of a setting? >> initially the only thing i had seen, i had heard, was just the first few seconds of the video in may of last year. hearing his voice was enough for me, confirmation, that it was him. i made a conscious decision not to watch it up until yesterday. so watching it you just go through a lot of emotions, but more than anything, just anger at the fact that, you know,

watching him being murdered. and each step of the phase, watching life leave his body, it was just a very disturbing thing to watch. >> i imagine as you say it was incredibly visceral for you. do you think it was an effective move by the prosecution to show that in the opening stages? >> i do. i think that it essentially just showed him actually going through the motions and watching him plead and beg and ask for mercy with mr. chauvin, not giving him any kind of mercymer. over 27 times he was saying i can't breathe and it didn't mean nil. he was pressing his knee on his neck and taking his life. >> can you share more about what it is like for people not in that room with you and your eac

during some of this testimony? are you commenting on what you're seeing? can you pull back the curtain a bit. >> we do. that room allows us to be a little more vocal with each other. i had the opportunity to be inside of the actual courtroom, of course we're not allowed to respond or say anything, so in that room question talk with each other about what we're seeing and on yesterday, we were able to lean on each other because some of us broke down watching that video. >> and there are still probably, at least the expectation is, at least four weeks to go. i wonder how you're working to brace yourself for the weeks ahead and ultimately what justice looks like for you and your family. >> well, bracing ourselves in preparation for it is pretty much our fate. it has been the one common thread that we had throughout the whole process.

it sustained us previously. and this has been no different into that is what we're using to help guide us through this most difficult time and justice for us is a conviction. it's a conviction for derek chauvin and for the other defendants in this case as well. >> what about the legacy of your cousin. i know there is a george floyd police re form bill working it's way through congress now. what do you hope his legacy ends up being? >> i definitely think that the police reform is a huge piece of that, you know, making sure there is accountability for police officers. that there is racial sensitiity and deescalation training. and a measure that makes them have to intervene when they see other officers using excessive force.

i think in general just seeing a change across the board. i have a young son. there is a lot of other young people coming along and we're hoping that there is a change that no one else will have to encounter. >> thank you so much. i know it is going to be a very long four weeks for you and your family, we appreciate your time. we expect the injury to walk into the room and the. so pick up in 15 or 20 minutes from now. and the world health portion organization holding a briefing on where the coronavirus came from. why there is still skepticism on that. and why hash tags are picking up steam in georgia. g up

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happening now, the roll out of a joint study on where the coronavirus originated. they say it was likely transmitted from bats to humans through another animal. also it says a leak from a lab is extremely unlikely. it comes as cases go up in half of the states in our country. we may see a fourth wave similar to what happened in europe.

>> i'm watching the cases tick up. i'm watching us have increased numbers of hyper transmissible variants. what i would hate to have happen is have another oncoming surge just as we're reaching towards getting so many more people vaccinated. >> we will have more on covid matter in the day. we want to take you back to minneapolis where the trial for derek chauvin has started a few minutes early. we're going to take you live to the courtroom in minneapolis. >> you could see he was going through tremendous pain and you could see it in his face. you could see his eyes rolling back and his ahead and him having his mouth open. wide open, slowly with drool and

slobber and dryness on his mouth. you could see that he was trying to gasp for air. and trying to be able to breathe as he is down there. and trying to move his face side to side so he can, i believe, i'm assuming, gasp for more air there. >> as you were standing there, seeing all of this, how are you feeling? i was standing there, and i was just really trying to keep my professionalism and make sure that i speak out for floyd's life. i felt like he was in very much danger and seeing another man like me, you know, being controlled in a way --

>> let me just -- >> that answers the question. >> were you scared for yourself? >> yes, i was totally scared for my safety and the people around me, you know? did you feel like you could intervene in this situation more than verbally? more than speaking? >> no, as much as i wanted to, i did as much as i could. >> you at some point learned the name of the officer that was standing there, right? officer tao, so you know who i'm referring to? >> correct. >> at some point did you have an interaction with officer tom? >> yes, i did step off of the curb.

>> what did he do? >> he put his hands on my chest. so i put my hands up and i stepped back up on the curb. >> did you make any further moves? >> no further moves. >> at some point today, a person that identified herself as a firefighter. >> yes. >> did you know her before today? >> no. >> she asked that they check his pulse. were you and other bystanders on the sidewalk there? >> yes. >> did you hear any of them threatening the safety of the police officers? >> no, i did not. at some point did you restrain some of those individuals?

>> yes, it was getting intense. i spoke to one of the gentlemen and told him that this is not the time or place for this and he went back into the building. >> did you know that individual? >> no, i did not know him at all. >> did you recognize him or know where he was from? >> no. >> did you ask him to go back in the store? >> that's correct. >> so you thought he came from the store? >> correct. >> and after you told him to do that what did he do? >> he proceeded to go back in the store and i believe he might have been escorted as he was crying back to the store. >> so he never made another move @police officers? >> that's correct. >> mr. williams, the jury heard some audio and video of this

incident already and you were using pretty strong language. >> that's correct. >> you were raising your voice. >> that's correct. >> why? why for both of those? for fear for myself, for fear of the people around me, and being able to talk to the officer and let him no in a this should not happen, you know? just from being around different officers and working in that industry, i just have never seen that and i felt like i should speak on it. and i realized that. >> what were the emotions causing you to speak like that? >> no feelings, no remorse, no response from the officer. >> nonresponsive. >> sustained.

jury will disregard the answer for the last question. if you could be more prescience in framing your question. >> what was the emotion that used to -- >> let me ask you, is there things you were seeing about the officers that also caused you concern? >> correct. >> what was that? >> a nonresponse from the officer. >> that was something also affecting how you were feeling about the incident? >> correct. >> and that late him to part of why you were raising your voice? >> that's correct.

>> when -- were you present when the ambulance arrived? >> that's correct. >> did you see officer chauvin take your knee off of his neck? >> no. >> did he when the ambulance arrived? >> no. >> did you see a paramedic check for mr. floyd's pulse? >> repeat the question. >> when the paramedics arrived, did you continue to watch when they got out of the am balance and continued to check on his pulse? >> yes. >> do d they check his pulse? >> i believe they attempts to

check his pulse, and he was still on top of him. >> he was responsive to that point? >> i think that answers the question, thank you. >> when the paramedics loaded him into the ambulance, were you still there at the scene? >> that's correct. >> after that happened, did you see -- at some point did you learn that there was more than those two officers at the scene? >> correct. >> when did you learn that? >> once the ambulance arrived i noticed there was more than two officers on the scene. >> where did you see, how did you see the other officers? >> once they started to load mr.

floi floyd on to the little bed thing. >> the gurney, correct. >> and when they did that you saw the other officers? >> yes. >> where were the other officers? >> they were on the other side, trying to get his feet to the gurney. >> and after mr. floyd was put into the ambulance and the ambulance left, did you stay at the scene for a little while? >> that's correct. >> so right after the ambulance left, did you see where the officers went? >> that's correct. >> where did ghie? >> they proceeded to cut to the other side in front of the store, this is 38th, and they

proceeded to go towards 38th and freed to go away from the scene. >> and were you still in that same emotional mind-set? >> yes, i was very lost at the moment. i was very nervous, and i didn't know what to do. yes. and did you, in fact, stay around at the scene for a little while? >> yes, i did. >> at some point did you make a 911 call? >> that is correct. i did call the police on the police. >> why did you do that? >> because i believed i witnessed a murder. >> so you felt the need to call the police? >> yes, i felt the need to call

the police. >> there was police there, right? >> yes. >> why didn't you talk to them about it? >> we didn't have a connection. i spoke to them, but there was no connection of a human being relationship. >> did you believe they were involved? >> yes, totally. >> and so when you made 911 call, about how long after the ambulance left was that? >> i don't know. >> a matter of minutes? >> minutes, seconds, not too long after they retreated to the other side of the street. prior to today, have you had an opportunity to listen to a recording of that 911 call?

>> can you please repeat that question? >> prior to coming to court today did we play for you a copy of that 911 call? a recording of it? >> i cannot remember at this moment. >> if you heard it today would you recognize it as the 911 call that you made? >> yes. >> we have now marked that as exhibit 20, and your honor, we ask that we're offering it now as exhibit 20. if we could then play exhibit 20. >> 911, what's the address of the emergency. . it was in front of a chicago store. the police just killed this guy that wasn't resisting arrest.

we were there the whole time, the man stopped breathing, he was not resisting or nothing, he informs handcuffs, he was not responsetive and the bam ambulance came and got him. and the officer that was out here left. it was 38th and chicago. >> okay, would you like to speak with a sergeant. >> yeah, that was bogus what they just did to this man, he was unrespondtive and he was not resisting arrest. >> okay, let me give you -- >> i'm here talking to another off duty firefighter who was there too, she told them to check the man's pulse and they would not even check his pulse. >> okay, one second.

>> y'all murderers, bro. murders, bro. murderers, bro. >> he wants to speak with a supervisor may 25, 2020. >> is that an accurate recording of the call you made? >> that's correct. >> at the beginning you referred to officer 987, where did you get that number from. >> honestly, it just visually popped in my head. i looked in his banal and that's what i read on his badge. >> whose badge, which officer were you referring to. >> the officer sitting over

there. >> is that the officer with the knee on mr. floyd's neck? >> yes. >> are you referring to mr. chauvin? >> that's correct. >> and so the purpose in making -- what was the purpose of making that call at that time? >> i just felt like that was the right thing to do. i didn't know what else to do. i didn't know what to do. >> and the response then was to transfer you to a sergeant, correct? >> correct. >> and it sounds like you're talking to officer tao at that point? >> that's correct, i was. i think at the moment i was making a call, and he proceeded to intimidate me and stick his camera in my face, his body cam. >> and the call ends abruptly,

did you terminate the call. >> i'm not 100% sure. i may have because i felt threatened once our interaction happened in front of the store. >> and then from there after hanging up, did you stick around for awhile and talk to other people there? >> yeah, i wanted to do my own investigation. >> i have no further questions.

>> good morning, sir. >> good morning. >> can i ask what you're looking at. >> i have follow up questions for you, all right? >> yes. >> you testified that you started wrestling in the 7th grade, is that correct? >> correct. >> you talked about how you learned how to control your body weight, correct? >> that's right. >> one of the things you talked about was early in your instruction in wrestling you call it i think flow wrestling.

>> correct. >> as i understand it and correct me if i'm wrong, it's kind of learning how to keep your center of balance, sometimes it feels like you should use your arm when you should use your leg. >> less resistance. >> so sometimes less resistance is better in certain circumstances. >> repeat that. >> sir, you're on the mat, and your instinct is to put your arm to the side to use your body weight to roll, you may want to use your leg to roll the other way? kind of like flow? >> kind of but not really. >> how do you describe the flow of wrestling. >> flow is more going 50% or

60%. letting you get into a half nelson and you feel it, you're in it, and now you're flowing and your partner is flowing off of your back to get into a position where you can stand up to escape. or partners let you get in on a double, and let him finish the double and now i flow into my defensive position, so different positions. >> so you're learning how to use your body weight against the weight of the other person and how to get in and out of moves, right? >> flowing. >> and this is something that you learned at a young age in the sport of wrestling? >> correct. >> as you continued your wrestling career, you testified that you wrusled all of the way through high school and into college for a few years as well? >> correct. >> you agree that wrestling is a

sport. >> wrestling is a lifestyle. >> there are rules, points, referees, there is a sport to wrestling? >> correct. >> i understand as a wrestler it's a lifestyle, but to the casual observer, maybe it's just a sport? >> correct. >> but you're learning how to keep your center of gravity lower and grapple with people. >> correct. >> and you testified that after you got out of college or finished your career in college you started moving more towards the mixed martial arts, correct? >> correct. >> you were training in ju jitsu, i believe, right? >> yes. >> all various forms of martial arts and you have general

familiarity with all of them. but your training specifically ju jit su. >> you're not just working ground game, you're working on stand up, muy thai, things like that. >> so you incorporate several forms of martial arts into what you study? >> correct. >> and again, the motion of a choke hold is very common within the martial arts community. >> correct. >> submissions. and there are many forms, right? >> correct. >> like the triangle, the rear

naked choke hold, and others that apply. >> correct. >> and again i understand that it is a lifestyle, but there is a sport to it as well, right? >> yes, correct. >> and i'm just talking generally, not about the mma fighting yet, but even as a hart martial artist there is competitions with rules and referees and things like that? >> correct. >> whether you wrestle or compete in martial arts there are weight classes. >> correct. mma has weight classes, ju jit su tournament there is is open weights. so if i'm going to a tournament i go to an open division, an open weight. >> so generally looking at your career as a wrestler,

what weight did you wrestle at? >> anywhere from 106 to 141 in college. >> and when you would competitively wrestle, you would wrestle with other people in that same weight class, right? >> correct. >> and then in the martial arts, in the competitions, our weight classes are there but there is also an open weight class, right? >> correct. >> so you as a 141 pound guy may wrestle grapple with someone 180 pounds. >> or 220 or 210. >> or 100. and you testified that you started with mixed martial arts. >> repeat that, please. >> i believe you testified yesterday that about ten years ago you began training in mixed martial arts? >> correct. >> mma.

>> maybe i'm confused, of your progression. you went from wrestling to boxes to mixed martial arts? >> i went from wrestling in college to training in a martial arts school that covers martial arts. >> and that is, because there are some, again, there are some businesses or gyms that will train in a specific form of a martial art, correct? >> yes, boxing gyms, there is different specialties of martial arts. but some schools, you taught a variety of martial arts. >> i'm understanding now that

you went from the wrestling to the mixed martial arts about ten years ago, and ant ten years ago you started competing? >> right away. i went from wrestling in college to one of the top martial artists in the midwest. i didn't know anything but wrestling at the time. and then i switched gyms and i learned more jujitsu and kicking. i learned elbows, different martial arts techniques, chokes, submissions, arm bars, things like that. spinning back fist, flying knees, i learned that. >> okay, when we talk about an mma fight, right, all of those various methods of fighting are employed in those fights, right?

>> correct. >> so if i'm a boxer, in a boxes match, i can't kick you, for example. >> right. >> but if i'm in an mma fight, i might punch or kick, anything short of biting, right? >> correct. >> the point of a mixed martial art fight is to knock the person out, render him unconscious? >> that's correct. and control the cage. >> yeah, that's what we think about. >> a cage fight, you see ufc, bellator, lfa, and tournaments where it is just jujitsu.

>> i believe according to your professional record, because use have an amateur career and a professional career, correct? >> correct. >> and you have had 11 professional fights? >> possibly, i don't know. >> well you know the internet exists, right? and that your statistics are saves. i would say five wins and six losses in 11 fights. >> i think it might be 6-6. >> okay. and when you fight in an mma fight, in these open and free style fights, you night a weight class, right? >> correct. >> people in the weight class

may be somethinger or bigger. >> correct. >> certain fights, when you get someone into a submission hold, the ref remay come lift up the person's arm to see if their conscious or unconscious, right? >> yeah, if they're not moving, if they're not moving if they're not fighting. >> yeah, they might say keep moving. he might check, sometimes the opponent will know that person is out, and they will say he is out, he is out. >> and sometimes you don't know and that's why the ref would come pick up the arm, right? >> but it's possible, right? a yes or no question. >> it's possible.

as part of your training in the mixed martial arts, you voluntarily submitted to being put into choke holds, correct? >> at practice. >> at practice, correct. >> and you practice the moves? >> correct. >> and in your professional career, you were also at times have rendered people unconscious and been rendered unconscious yourself? >> correct. >> now you described these chokeholds generally yesterday. you described an air choke and a blood choke, correct? >> yes. >> so when you use these forms

or choke holds, an air choke or a blood choke, they use those in various forms of martial arts, right? correct. >> with the exception of maybe the tick fighting, correct? >> correct. >> and you testified that you train with a lot of law enforcement officers, military people, law enforcement from state and federal levels. sometimes you don't even know what they do. and you're fighting with them, training with them, and they tell you a little about their lives, right? >> sometimes. >> we build a brotherhood of the gym. some people interact outside with personal lives, some people

just with jims. but i go in and i see them. >> right, okay. >> okay. >> but i just want to make sure, you have never officially been invited to go to like the minneapolis police academy to train law enforcement on the use of force. >> no, witnessed my sensei -- >> i'm asking about you, sir, have you been asked to train police officers in the use of choke holds? >> no, i just witnessed it. >> air chokes, you scribed them yesterday, air chokes from from the front, correct? because you're cutting off air to the trechea, correct?

>> correct. >> so the front of the neck, cutting off their air way, and rendering them unconscious? >> repeat that. >>sure. an air choke is a front choke, agreed? >> yes. >> and what you're doing in an air choke you're cutting off the air supply or the oxygen supply from the front of the neck, correct? >> correct. >> and in doing so you can render a person unconscious, correct? >> on an air choke, i'm not a medical person, so i won't answer that. >> on a blunt choke you're cutting off, and you described yesterday, the blood supply to the brain? >> side choke, correct. >> a side choke. and you described several different types of chokeholds like the rear naked chokehold i think it's called, or the

triangle. what you're doing is you're actually cutting off the blood supply to both sides of the neck in those -- >> repeat that? >> when you do a blood choke, what you're trained on generally, is to limit the blood supply to both sides of the neck? >> no. a blood choke is attack one side of the neck. >> it's just one side of the neck? okay. >> a blood choke is attack the side of the neck. so the choke here, the side of the neck. >> but you're using your weight and actually cutting off both sides? you're using your body and your arm, right? and you're actually protecting the trachea or the airway in the crux -- >> you're mixing your air chokes and blood chokes together. one is to attack the trachea. the side is to attack the side of the neck. >> if i have someone in a chokehold, in a blood chokehold

using my arm, i may have my hand behind that person, right? >> no. attacking the side of the neck. you're attacking the trachea. >> i'm saying that the trachea is protected by the crux of the elbow. and so you're using the forearm and the bicep to cut off both sides of the blood. >> correct, from ear to here, you're cutting off one side of the neck on a choke. >> okay. how long does that usually take in your experience, to render someone unconscious? >> you can go unconscious within seconds, some people don't even know. >> right. you were interviewed by the fbi right? >> that is correct. >> i believe it was agent garvey of the fbi right? are you looking at some notes to refresh your recollection? >> i have it in front of me, that's correct. >> would that help you refresh your recollection? >> i mean, yeah.

that's why i just opened it up. that's correct. >> it's kind of weird, we have rules in court, you have to testify from your memory and not your notes -- >> they're not notes. the name is on the front of the page. >> what i'm saying is if you need to refer to your, whatever it is you have in front of you to help refresh your recollection, we need to get permission from the court to do that. >> correct. >> it's a weird procedure -- >> i don't know his name so i looked to see what his name is, correct. >> would it help you remember his or her name if you looked at your paper in front of you. >> that's correct because it's in the paper. >> your honor, may he refer to his notes? >> refer to your notes silently and once it's refreshed your memory close the notes back up. >> definitely. >> thank you. what was the name one more time? >> i believe there were two agents? >> correct. >> one was from the bca, angela garvey. >> that one is correct. >> and then eckert is the last

name of the other? >> i believe that is correct. >> and you were interviewed by those agents on may the 29th of last year, correct? >> correct, i believe so. >> we have a transcript of the statement and reports about it. would you dispute me if i told you it was may 29th? >> i don't recollect the date. >> fair enough. and do you recall them asking you about blood chokes and how long it takes to choke someone out? >> correct. >> and you told them three to five seconds? >> correct, like you just told you, seconds. >> an mma round is three minutes, right? >> no, that's for amateurs. an mma round is five minutes. three minutes for amateurs, five minutes pros. >> so three to five minutes of

an mma fight. >> of an mma fight. >> have you ever in your training after you have rendered someone unconscious where they come back to and they start fighting again? >> inside of a fight? >> mm-hmm. >> have i choked someone out and they came back to? >> no, to finish fighting. >> have you seen that happen in practice? >> restate -- rephrase -- repeat the question. >> i will do so. will someone -- you rendered someone unconscious, right, you're fighting with them, they've gone unconscious, you've released your chokehold from them. have you ever experienced someone coming back and starting to fight you again right away? >> yes. personally, no. have i seen it, yes. >> okay, fair enough.

so you've seen after someone is unconscious, they come back to consciousness and they start fighting right away again? you've seen that happen? >> i've seen it in the ufc multiple times when someone gets choked out they come back to and they continue to try to fight, and the referee has to explain to them they've been unconscious. i've been knocked out, and i came back conscious and the first thing i want to do was continue to fight. and then when i was in the locker room, they told me the fight was over, so i have no recollection of what happened in that moment. >> okay, great. now you testified that one of the things that you do and have done in your career is to work as a security guard, right? >> that is correct. >> and you've worked as a security guard in a variety of contexts. >> that is correct. >> you've done personal security for people. >> correct. >> you've done doorman stuff, right? >> that's correct. >> bouncing, i guess, is what you would call it. >> correct.

>> and you said that you have worked alongside the minneapolis police department in those club-type situations with off-duty officers and on-duty officers? >> that is correct. >> in that capacity, have you ever had to deal with a crowd of people? >> that is correct. >> have you ever had to deal with a crowd of people that was upset? >> definitely. >> is it easier or harder to deal with a crowd that is upset? >> each person is different. me, i'm able to deal with the high capacity of distractions, different things going on and still be able to be professional and focus on what's going on in front of me. >> okay. and have you ever been involved in a situation where there's a

crowd that's upset and you were afraid of them? >> correct. >> i'd like to direct your attention to the incident on may 25th of 2020 that you've testified about. you were shown an exhibit yesterday that shows that you arrived at the cup foods on the 38th street side of cup foods at 8:23:12. >> i don't recollect the time, sir. >> would you like me to show you that exhibit, or would you agree that it's probably correct? i can show you the exhibit. >> show me the exhibit.

>> i am showing you exhibit 18. you can see that? >> correct. >> this was already admitted into evidence yesterday. you would agree that exhibit 18 shows you walking along 38th street on may 25th, 2020, at 8:23:12? >> correct. okay. >> not trying to trick you. >> that's fine. >> and it's fair to say that prior to your arrival there you had no idea what had been going on in the area? >> no, not at all.

i just saw squad cars and didn't know what was going on. >> you testified as you came around the corner, your energy sort of pulled you towards that incident, right? >> that is totally correct. >> so you would have absolutely no idea that an ambulance was called three minutes before you arrived? >> don't know anything about that. >> you would have had no idea that an ambulance was stepped up to code three, which means get here quick, two minutes before you arrived? >> no recollection to any of that. >> you weren't there. you wouldn't possibly know. >> wouldn't know at all. >> you testified that kind of based on your experience as a security guard your first inclination is to sort of observe everything that's going on, right? >> totally correct. >> and that's what you did? >> that's what i felt like i

did, correct.