i just saw squad cars and didn't know what was going on. >> you testified as you came around the corner, your energy sort of pulled you towards that incident, right? >> that is totally correct. >> so you would have absolutely no idea that an ambulance was called three minutes before you arrived? >> don't know anything about that. >> you would have had no idea that an ambulance was stepped up to code three, which means get here quick, two minutes before you arrived? >> no recollection to any of that. >> you weren't there. you wouldn't possibly know. >> wouldn't know at all. >> you testified that kind of based on your experience as a security guard your first inclination is to sort of observe everything that's going on, right? >> totally correct. >> and that's what you did? >> that's what i felt like i did, correct.

>> so it's fair to say that you had not observed any prior contact between minneapolis police department and mr. floyd? >> only what i seen. >> you'd have no idea that they had been dealing with him for 15 minutes prior to your arrival? >> objection, your honor. >> overruled. >> no, right? >> i can still answer that question? >> you can still answer the question. >> repeat the question. >> sure. you were not aware that the police had been dealing with mr. floyd for 15 minutes prior to your arrival? >> not at all. now you testified that as you were observing mr. floyd on the ground you observed blood coming from his nose or mouth area, right? >> correct and someone actually

stated that, if you watch the video. >> i've watched the video. but you would not have been aware that three minutes prior to your arrival an ambulance was called specifically because he was bleeding from the mouth? >> [ inaudible ]. >> what was your answer? >> i didn't have nothing -- recollection of that. nothing to do with me. >> sometimes the court reporter can't hear. that's the only reason. >> i appreciate you. >> okay. >> thank you. but you yesterday testified that you assumed that the blood coming from mr. floyd's nose and mouth area was from his face being pushed into the cement? >> i didn't say that.

[ inaudible ] >> there is no question. you answered my question. >> right, blood was coming through his nose. that's it. i didn't say -- >> that's nonresponsive. objection. you've answered my question, sir. >> stop. the objection is sustained. there was no question. >> thank you. you testified after the ambulance came you saw two additional officers, right? >> correct. >> and you, prior to that happening, had no idea those two officers were back there, right? >> correct. >> so it's fair to assume you did not hear any of the conversations between the officers, correct? >> i wasn't close enough,

correct. >> the question is, did you hear any of the conversations between the officers? yes or no? >> please repeat that because you said it different the first time. >> sure. did you hear any of the conversation occurring between the three officers with mr. floyd, yes or no? >> no. >> it's fair to say that as you were there you grew angrier? >> correct. if that's what you perceive. if that's what you took from the video, correct. >> as you were there and interacting with officer thao and officer chauvin, you grew more and more upset, would you agree with that? >> correct. >> you grew angry, right?

>> i grew controlled and professionalism. >> again, you made a statement to agents garvey and eckert -- and in that statement you said -- >> your honor, i'm going to object to this form of cross-examination. >> overruled. proceed. >> in that statement you wanted to beat the -- out of the police officers. you said that? >> yeah, i did. that's what i felt. >> you were angry. >> no. you can't paint me as angry. i was in a position where i had to be controlled. controlled professionalism. i wasn't angry -- >> object as nonresponsive. >> overruled.

the answer will stand. next question. >> thank you. you started calling them names, yes? >> you heard that, yes. >> you called him a tough guy, right? >> you watched the video. >> you called him a real man, right? >> you watched the video. >> you do have to answer the question yes or no based on what he's asking. i will ask you again so your answers should be yes or no. you called him a tough guy? >> i did. >> you called him a real man? >> i did. >> you called him such a man? >> i did. >> you called him bogus? >> i did. >> you called him a bum at least 13 times? >> if that's what you counted in the video. >> that's what i counted. >> then that's what you've got, 13. >> and that was early on, right? those terms grew more and more angry, would you agree with

that? >> they grew and more pleading for life. >> all right. after you called him -- >> that's what you heard. >> did you say that? >> is that what you heard? >> i'm asking you, sir? >> i'm pretty sure i did. >> you heard that. i'm pretty sure you did. if that's what you heard. >> i'm asking you, did you say that? >> if that's what the video recalls, that's what i did. >> you called him a -- it's a yes or no, sir. >> if that's what was heard in the video, yes, i did. >> and at one point you said officer thao pushed you? >> that's correct. he did. he put his hand on my chest, is what i said. >> and you observed officer thao push someone else, right, or feel like he pushed someone

else? >> i didn't let him touch anyone else. >> do you recall saying, i dare you to touch me like that -- out of both of you. >> yeah, i did. >> so, again, sir, it's fair to say that you grew angrier and angrier? >> no, i stayed in my body. you can't paint me out to be angry. >> you were not standing, you were walking around, right? >> correct. controlled. >> and at times you would go forward towards where officer chauvin was, right? >> correct. >> and at times you would walk to the side, correct? >> well, i didn't really get too close to officer chauvin, actually. thao did not allow me. >> you attempted to walk closer? >> i stepped off the curb and i stepped back on the curb. >> because officer thao didn't

permit you to go forward? >> he said step back on the curb. >> your voice -- you weren't just saying you're a bum, would you agree with that? >> you said i wasn't just saying -- >> right. the tone of your voice. >> the tone of my voice was loud so people could hear me. >> and it grew louder and louder? >> so i could be heard. >> and after mr. floyd was taken by the ambulance you continued to interact with officer thao as well as other people on the scene, correct? >> that's correct. after they retreated, i said what i said. they could say more to me. >> and you continued to yell these types of things after mr. floyd was gone, right?

>> i mean, mr. thao and i had words back and forth, correct. >> i think you said something about hoping he would shoot himself. >> no, i didn't say i hoped he would shoot himself. i said within the next two years you will shoot yourself in the head for what you did. i didn't say hope. i don't hope that on anyone. the bible doesn't allow that. >> so, again, you continued to engage with these officers, right? >> thao. >> and your voice was loud, right? >> he tried to intimidate me, so. >> the officers -- most of the officers were on the other side of 38th street. >> me and thao were standing in front of each other. >> at one point officer thao goes across the street, right? >> they both had to retreat, correct. >> and you continued to yell these same types of things. >> probably, correct, yeah. i wasn't being heard. >> and it was over and over and

over and over again, right? >> because i wasn't being heard. >> it's a yes or no question, sir. was it over and over and over again? >> yes, because i wasn't being heard. >> thank you, sir. i have no further questions. >> any redirect? >> yes, your honor. thank you, mr. williams. i have a few more questions for you. >> yes, sir. >> in mma fighting do you ever have a situation where your opponent is handcuffed behind

the back? >> never. >> do you ever have a situation in mma where there are three people fighting against one? >> never. >> and when you were on the scene at 38th and chicago on may 25th of this year when you were watching this interaction between these three minneapolis, four minneapolis police officers and mr. floyd, were you watching a cage match at the time? >> well, i only seen two of them animals so i was more of -- >> objection. >> sustained. >> sorry. >> that's okay. >> so you weren't watching a sport that day, were you? >> not at all.

mr. nelson asked you a couple times about the blood choke around the throat. are you, based on your training, experience doing this yourself, can you apply a blood choke to one side of the neck? >> correct. >> and is that done in mixed martial arts? >> that is done, correct. >> whether mr. nelson wants to ask you about doing it on both sides of the neck you've seen it done on one side of the neck? >> correct. >> and when you were on the street there at 38th and chicago on may 25th of last year watching mr. chauvin and mr. floyd, was it that kind of blood choke you thought you were seeing on one side of the neck? >> objection. misleading. >> that is correct. >> overruled. >> mr. nelson asked you about

seeing times when somebody has been unconscious in a mixed martial arts fight and come to and tried to wrestle again. or fight again. when an opponent is rendered unconscious through something like a chokehold in a mixed martial arts fight, is the fight stopped? >> right away. immediately. medical attention right away. >> mr. nelson asked you about dealing with crowds that are upset in your experience as a security guard. >> yes. >> when you're dealing with a crowd that is upset, are there ways to try to de-escalate the situation without using force? >> that is correct. >> like what kinds of things can you do? >> really staying calm, being humane, talking to the person, trying to talk them down, just

getting the person away from the situation, just being humane with the person is what worked for me in downtown minneapolis as a security guard with drunk people that i'm babysitting pretty much. i have to come to and try to figure out a way to solve this problem without putting physical force to them unless they are trying to physically enforce on me. >> so while you were on the street there on 38th and chicago on may 25th of last year watching mr. chauvin hold mr. floyd down, did you see officer thao try to de-escalate the situation at all with the crowd? >> objection. [ inaudible ] >> sustained. >> well, based on your training and experience as a security guard and your testimony just now about ways to de-escalate the situation, did you see thao doing anything like that while you were there on that scene? >> same objection. >> sustained. sidebar.

>> and a good tuesday morning to you. craig melvin here. we are watching day two of derek chauvin's trial. chauvin, the former minneapolis police officer charged with the murder of george floyd this is the first full day of testimony. and what you're looking at here on the left side of your screen, something that we've come to grow accustomed to over the last day and a half, the sidebar. the judge there, the judge talking to the attorneys, the attorneys talking to the judge, an objection was just raised over the testimony that we've been hearing from david henderson -- excuse me, no, donald williams is the former

mma fighter who is testifying. donald williams testifying a few moments ago, and i think we may have a few moments to sort of digest what we have been watching and listening to here. david henderson is the civil rights attorney and former prosecutor who will join me momentarily. let's listen back in and hear the judge's decision. >> when you're dealing with a crowd as a security guard -- >> objection. >> overruled. he hasn't finished the question. >> and you have, as mr. nelson described them, a crowd that's upset, would it help in your situation as a security guard to have others -- other security guards present? >> yes, it does. more presence is better. >> objection. >> overruled.

>> during your cross-examination you were asked about the time that officer thao touched you, put his hand on your chest. >> correct. >> and your reaction was what? >> i immediately swiped his hand because i felt threatened, and i stepped back and i put my hands forward. i was threatened by his presence. again, i put my hands up. didn't know what else was going to move forward and proceeded to step back. >> we heard you so you're fine. >> just have to stay close to the microphone. you didn't want officer thao touching you? >> not at all. >> you didn't touch him? >> not at all. >> and you went back up on the curb? >> that's correct. >> during your cross-examination you used the term the officers

retreat. >> correct. >> what did you mean by that, retreat? >> what i mean is -- i'm not law enforcement by any means but i know i see when certain cases when it comes to certain things like this most of the officers retreat away from the scene until other authorities come on scene to take care of everything, and that's what i noticed they did. they retreated away from the scene to the other side of the street, and that's where they stayed until whoever came to deal with them. >> okay. also during your cross-examination mr. nelson asked you about things that happened before you got to the scene. >> that's correct. >> you weren't at all trying to tell the jury in your previous testimony that you knew things that occurred before you got there? >> no, not at all. >> when you got there, after you

arrived and saw mr. chauvin with his knee on mr. floyd's neck on the ground there until the ambulance took him, you watched that entire time? >> i watched -- yeah, i watched everything. >> and so during that time that you were watching, did you see anything that you thought justified holding mr. floyd down that way? >> objection. >> no -- >> sustained. the answer is stricken. >> did you see mr. floyd fighting back to the officers? >> no. >> did you see whether mr. floyd lost cautiousness while you were there watching? >> correct. >> asked and answered. >> your honor. >> no argument for objections. i'll ask for sidebar. the objection is overruled. you may proceed. ask the question again so mr. williams knows what it is. >> while you were there watching, was there a time when

you saw mr. floyd lose consciousness? >> that's correct. [ inaudible ] >> you were asked multiple times about being angry. >> that's correct. >> and more and more upset as time went on. >> correct. >> so why? why did you get angry and more and more upset as time went on? >> because, again, they were not listening to anything i was telling them. i felt like i had to speak out for floyd because he was speaking out to the officer and there was no feedback, no emotion, no nothing. i looked in his eyes and as i'm talking to him --

>> let me stop you there. >> we'll stop the answer there. next question. >> what did you think was happening to mr. floyd? >> he was under distress. >> objection. >> that answer will stand, but move on from that. >> you felt he was in danger? >> correct. >> in danger of what? >> objection, your honor. >> counsel, sidebar. >> all right. another sidebar here as we listen to the mma fighter who is also a security guard but, most importantly for the purpose of this testimony was a witness to the death of george floyd last may. david henderson, civil rights attorney, former prosecutor is with me. so is mary, the former chief public defender in hennepin county, minnesota. that is, of course, where this trial is taking place. david, apologies in advance if i have to cut you off.

mary, apologies in advance if you have to cut you off when we resume here. but, david, i'll start with you. what stands out to you most from donald here, the witness that we've heard so far? >> two things. number one, his reaction when he was making the call and even to hearing it again, still emotional. the other thing that stands out is he's a nice guy. i think my favorite line from the trial so far is, appreciate you man, when he's talking to the judge. those qualities come across well. i think some of the import of his testimony is being lost with excessive questioning that's not necessary to make the point that he's here to make. >> mary, i want to ask you about this, this tense moment that happened a little while ago between williams and the defense attorney, eric nelson there. nelson pressing him about the things that he could be heard saying to the officer on the scene. i don't think we have time to play it back right now, but, mary, i know you saw that

exchange. what was the strategy there? what do we think the defense was trying to do? >> i think the defense is trying to do what he said in his opening statement that the bystanders, particularly mr. williams, were distracting the police from what they describe as caring for mr. floyd. i do think this may have backfired in a big way. i now think, the state can argue in its closing, what would you expect someone who was watching a man being killed to say and to do, who is being prevented from rendering any help? but i do think that was his strategy. >> again, donald williams on the stand right now. he testified that he called police on the police because he was convinced that he was witnessing a murder there. mr. henderson, in terms of -- you made a good point yesterday that it's not just the lawyers

that ultimately pick the jurors, it was the jurors that also picked the lawyers and, you know what, we'll pick that up during our next break. let's go back to the courtroom. >> so, mr. williams, why did you think it was so important that you were not being heard? >> because i felt like with the side choke he was in the process of losing consciousness, also from the condition of -- >> objection. >> overruled. >> you can continue. >> like i said before earlier, he reminded me of [ inaudible ]. >> let me ask this way. >> the last no will be stricken. >> i'm sorry. so you were concerned about mr. floyd losing his life? >> correct.

>> i have nothing further, your honor. >> any recross? >> certainly. you were asked a series of questions on redirect about your experience in mixed martial arts, do you recall? >> correct. >> can you tell me about any of the conversations that you had as you were being rendered unconscious in any of your fights? >> your honor, i'm going to object. hearsay. >> what did you ask me? >> no, just wait. let me rule on the objection first. the objection is overruled. you may answer if you have a recollection as to any time -- ask the question again but don't answer until i say so. >> when you were engaged in

mixed martial arts in your fights, in your competitive fights, can you tell me were you able to have a conversation with your opponent as you were being rendered unconscious, yes or no? >> we didn't talk to each other, so no. >> nothing further. >> yes, your honor. >> you said earlier you're not a medical doctor? >> that is totally correct. >> if mr. nelson is asking you whether a person can -- >> objection, your honor. >> stop. you're not allowed to give a medical opinion. mr. frank is going to ask you about your personal experience, if you have such a personal experience, you can talk about your personal experience. nothing more. please phrase it in terms of his personal experience not an opinion.

>> i will, your honor. in a mixed martial arts fight when you are being rendered unconscious in a chokehold you tap out, correct? >> correct. >> and that's to prevent it from going too far? >> correct, losing consciousness. >> the tapout is the communication you use to your opponent to say, hey, let up. >> that is correct. >> and your opponent has to follow that communication? >> that's correct. >> that's the rules of the fight? >> that's the rules of the fight. >> and so when you tap out, they know it's done and it stops? >> correct. the only type of verbal -- >> i have nothing further, your honor. >> you are excused. thank you.

all right. members of the jury, our next four witnesses are going to be persons who because of their age i am allowing them not to be on the video broadcast. obviously you will be able to see them in the courthouse. but just so you know what is going on beyond this courtroom, their video will not be shown. further, when they give their name and spell their names for the record, that will be off the audio that is being broadcast this courtroom. just so you know what the general public is seeing. you will, of course, see and hear everything. i'm also allowing, contrary to what is often in the rules of decorum that we operate under, that they can refer to other people at the scene by their first names as opposed to mister

or ms. that's with the court's permission. they're not violating by doing so. the state will bring in its next witness. there will be four in a row probably. we're not going to get to all of them before we take a break. probably one at most. thank you.

>> okay. let's sort of try and explain what's happening here. judge peter cahill just announcing to the jurors and to us watching and listening at home, on sirius satellite radio, the next four witnesses were minor witnesses when george floyd lost his life last may. two of them are still minors. two of them are now over the age of 18. but the judge has decided that because they were minors at the time -- you know what, it sounds like we're going to take a break. >> let's break for 20 minutes. >> they're going to take a 20-minute break. it is 10:30 local time there in minneapolis. but, as i was saying, judge cahill deciding that these four individuals, all of whom were minors at the time of george

floyd's death, to protect their identity, they are not going to be identified outside the courtroom. and, you know what, it sounds like judge cahill has changed his mind. they're not going to do this 20-minute break after all. they're going to power through. we will hear from the first of these minor witnesses right now. you won't hear their names. you won't see their faces, but you will hear their testimony. okay. and just a heads-up, folks this is going to happen periodically. we're not going to be broadcasting certain pieces of sound from the courtroom, again, because we have been instructed

by the judge not to identify these minors. so as the judge talks to these minors and swears them in, we are not going to be able to broadcast the audio portion of that to you, but i can tell you that is what judge peter cahill is doing right now. again, these four minors were all eyewitnesses to george floyd's death last may. now we can hear, so let's listen in. >> going back on audio to mr. blackwell. >> good morning. >> good morning. >> are you a little nervous up there? >> yes. >> it's understandable. i'm just going to take a few minutes this morning to talk with you and give the jury a chance to hear from you about what you saw, how you reacted and what happened on may 25th. okay? >> yes. >> first of all, darnella, would you tell us how old you are? >> i'm 18 years old. >> and one week ago were you 18

years old? >> no. >> so you just had a birthday? >> yes. >> and so when we talk about may 25th of last year, you were -- >> 17. >> are you a student? >> yes. >> tell us where you go -- are you in high school? >> yes. >> where do you go? >> i went to roosevelt and then made the decision to switch to oxford fairview academy for my 12th grade year. >> so you most certainly remember the date of may 25th of last year? >> yes. >> i want to take you to a certain time period on may 25th at around 7:00 p.m. on may 25th. do you recall walking to cup foods? >> yes. >> and were you by yourself? >> no. >> were you walking with a cousin of yours?

>> yes. >> do you recall how old your cousin was? >> maybe 12. i'm not sure. >> maybe 9? >> maybe. >> where were you walking from? >> home. >> so you live nearby? >> yes. >> would you describe cup foods as the neighborhood store? >> yes. >> now the jury may have heard something about this being a dangerous neighborhood. were you concerned for your safety in walking with your cousin to cup foods? >> no. >> if you had to estimate how many times would you say you walk to cup foods from your home in the neighborhood? >> hundreds. so maybe even thousands. >> so you and your cousin were walk to go cup foods.

do you remember what you were going there for? >> i was taking her to get some snacks. >> your cousin loves snacks? >> yes. >> so let's go to may 25th of 2020 and i want to show you a couple of things just to set the scene for our discussion. i want to show you what's been marked for identification purposes, for our purposes, as exhibit 13. your honor, i think i need a hand. okay, i got one. now exhibit 13, do you see two people in what is a photograph?

>> yes, but i also see two people back there, if that counts. >> right. you see two people in the front of the photo and two people in the back? >> yes. >> is this photo a true and accurate depiction of you and your cousin? >> yes. >> in the front of the photograph on may 25th? >> yes. >> your honor, i offer exhibit 13 into evidence. >> no objection. >> would you like me to publish? >> yes, your honor. thank you. all right, now the jury can see it, too. now this is a screen that you can actually mark on and so if we see the two people that are right here in the front of this picture there's a little girl with red love on her sweatshirt and another person next to her. one of those persons you? >> yes. >> and which one, the bigger one or the little one? >> the bigger one. >> and this is your cousin next to you? >> yes. >> and this is as you're walking to cup foods?

>> yes. >> i want to show you what we've marked as exhibit 16 for the trial. if you could pull that up, brian. now is this a video that you've seen before? >> yes. >> do you have personal knowledge of the scene that's depicted in this exhibit? >> yes. >> is this video a true and accurate depiction of the scene that you saw on may 25th of 2020? >> yes. >> your honor, the state offers exhibit 16 into evidence. >> without objection. 16 is received. >> so if you could play this a little ways, i want to ask you

some questions about it. so we can see with the jury two people walking from the left to the right. a little girl and there you are. do you see you? >> yes. >> and this is as you were approaching cup foods on may 25? >> yes. >> now you see there your cousin goes into the store. why does she go into the store and you turned around and came back towards the squad cars? >> i wanted to make sure she got in. >> stop there for a second. when you walked past the squad car there did you see anything happening there on the ground as you were walking towards cup foods with your cousin? >> yes. i see a man on the ground and i see a cop kneeling down on him. >> was there anything about the scene that you didn't want your cousin to see?

>> yes. >> and what was that? >> a man terrified, scared, begging for his life. >> is that why you directed your cousin to go into cup foods? >> yes. >> and then when you saw what was happening there at the scene what was it about the scene that caused you to come back? >> it wasn't right. he was -- he was suffering. he was in pain. >> let me stop you there for just a second, darnella. and so when you say, first of all, he, are you referring to the person you've come to know as george floyd? >> yes. >> did you know anything about mr. george floyd before may 25th? >> no. >> had you ever met him before? >> no. >> ever seen him before, to your knowledge? >> no. >> so when you came back to the scene here that we can see in

exhibit 16, what did you do when you first got there and we see where you're standing. what did you do? >> i pulled out my phone. >> and what were you doing pulling out your phone? >> recording, capturing what i was seeing. >> and we have already admitted into evidence in this case the video you had done which was our exhibit 15 that's in evidence. so tell the jury what you observed, what you heard when you stopped to look at what was happening there at the scene? >> i heard george floyd saying, i can't breathe, please, get off me. i can't breathe. he cried for his mom. he was in pain. it seemed like he knew -- it seemed like he knew it was over for him. he was terrified.

he was suffering. this was a cry for help. definitely. >> objection. >> disregard any opinions about how mr. floyd was feeling, but you can reloy on her observations. mr. blackwell? >> thank you, your honor. darnella, let me show you for a moment, we'll come back to this discussion, let me show you exhibit 17 that is already in evidence. so can you see the person depicted on exhibit 17? >> yes. >> darnella, are you able to tell the ladies and gentlemen and gentlemen of the jury if you know who this man is? you can take your time. >> yes, yes. >> please tell the ladies and

gentlemen who is this? >> this was the officer that was kneeling on george floyd's neck. >> on may 25 snth. >> yes. >> is this the way he appeared when you saw him on may 25th kneeling on george floyd's neck? >> yes. >> when you first arrived at the scene -- you can take that down, brian. when you first arrived at the scene and you started recording with your phone camera, were there other bystanders or others present at the time? >> no. >> about how long before other people started to gather with you? >> not even a minute in. >> and could you estimate roughly how many others were just there around you who were also observing what was happening? >> maybe about 12, 14, something

around that, maybe. >> if i showed you a picture of those who were there, might you recognize those who might have been present with you? let's see. [ inaudible ] thank you. >> to refresh the memory, is that correct? >> let me make sure it's only so she can see. >> already got it. >> thank you, judge. as you look at exhibit 184, do these look like in this exhibit the other bystanders who were with you at the scene on may 25th? >> yes. >> your honor, i offer 184 into evidence. >> no objection. >> 184 is received. >> so looking at this picture,

photograph of 184, can you identify for us any of the other bystanders? we know that you identify your cousin to the right. how about any of the people, others here in the photograph? >> this is a former friend, a friend i went to school with. alissa. >> can you point her out so we can mark her on the screen. >> i'm sorry, judge, can you repeat that? >> the arrow is on the screen. >> just one moment, your honor. is she able to mark from where she is? >> she put the arrow on the screen. and marked where her friend is, is that correct? >> yes. >> okay. do you see the arrow, mr. blackwell? >> no, i can't see anything on this screen, your honor.

all right. you mentioned there's another one of your friends in the peck picture? >> yes. >> what was the friend's name? >> alissa. >> and could you again point out alissa? okay. now i see it. thank you, your honor. and what about any other persons you know here? >> not on the scene but i do know people that was there at the last minute. i know some of the workers because i've lived there for a while. >> but you were there the whole time as these various group of bystanders gathered together on may 25th? >> yes. >> if somebody were to tell the

ladies and gentlemen of the jury that you and the rest of the bystanders who were there were an unruly crowd or mob -- >> objection, to the form of the question. >> i didn't finish the question, your honor. >> let's rephrase as a nonleading question, please. >> all right. i want to you describe the nature and character of the persons gathered together there. would you describe yourselves as an unruly mob or an unruly crowd? >> objection. leading. >> sustained. no, overruled, i think it's the only way to get an answer. sidebar after this answer. go ahead? >> no, i would say everyone were reacting in lots of different ways from what they were seeing, which it wasn't right. we all know it wasn't right. >> objection. >> the last part is stricken. i would like a sidebar with counsel.

>> okay. another sidebar here between judge cahill and the attorneys we have been watching and listening to the first of four minor witnesses. they were under the age of 18 death. this is darnella frazier who is testifying right now, and she is the young woman, the brave young woman, who shot the video that arguably triggered this entire trial and the subsequent global movement in the wake of george floyd's death. it was that video that everyone saw on social media, and it's her testimony that we're listening to right now. and let's return. >> yes, your honor. >> all right.

sorry. the technical difficulties are shooting pains in all of our ears. mr. blackwell, if you would. >> thank you, your honor. thank you. you were there with the other bystanders. did any of these bystanders ever threaten the police? >> no. >> did any of them ever physically get violent with the police? >> no. >> did you at the scene on may 25th see any violence at the scene at all anywhere? >> yes, from the cops, from chauvin and officer thao, i think that's his name. >> other than the violence you saw from mr. chauvin and the other police, did you see any act of violence from the bystanders who were there? >> no. >> did you see any of the bystanders act in any way that you would describe as unruly? >> no. >> do you think it's fair to call them a mob? >> no.

>> amongst the bystanders there, did you see any of them make an effort to actually offer care for any of them make an offer of care for mr. floyd? >> physically? >> yes. >> i seen -- i heard then say get off of him, you are hurting him, he can't breathe, he's not moving. but any time anyone tried to get close, they were defensive so we couldn't get close. >> first let's stick with what you heard the bystanders. they were saying things to mr. chauvin? >> yes. >> what things did you hear being said to mr. chauvin by the bystanders? >>. >> you are hurting him.

are you enjoying this. he's not moving. his nose is bleeding. you are a bum. words around that category. >> when you arrived at the scene, first of all, what was the position of mr. floyd when you arrived at the scene and saw him by the squad car? >> he was on the ground restrained. didn't look like he could move much but his head. >> by restrained, was he in handcuffs? >> yes. >> by restrained, where was mr. chauvin in relation to mr. floyd? >> his knee was kneeling on his neck. two other officers were holding him down as well.

>> what did you see mr. floyd doing as he was restrained by plp chauvin? >> he was complaining about. he said his neck, his back, everything hurts. i can't breathe. mom. he said i would get up if i could. i wouldn't say that was his exact words. he was pretty much saying how much in pain he was. he couldn't breathe. >> at some point was there a person who came to the scene who identified herself as a firefighter? >> yes. >> are you able to see her in this exhibit 184? >> yes. >> could you point to her? >> okay. let the record reflect she is

pointing to hanson. >> the record will reflect that the witness has identified a woman dressed in black with a light head band in exhibit 184. >> when this person who identified herself as a firefighter came, what did she do? >> she asked him to check his pulse. >> who did she ask to check? >> chauvin. >> she asked officer chauvin to check the pulse of mr. floyd? >> yes. >> then what happened? >> he remained kneeling on his neck. she asked multiple times, not just once. >> did she try to check his pulse? >> no, they wouldn't get us get pulse.

>> what prevented you from getting close? >> they were quick to pull out the mace. they put their hand on the mace. i can't remember if they pointed it at us, but they put their hand on the mace. >> did you feel threatened by the police officers? >> yes. >> did you feel threatened by mr. chauvin? >> yes. >> why is that? >> he seemed like -- how do i word this? i felt like i was in danger when he did that. it rubbed me the wrong way. i didn't understand why they would do that, what we did for them to make them do that.

that's why i felt threatened. i didn't understand why the mace was needed at all. >> so as you were observing mr. floyd under the knee of mr. chauvin, did you ever see mr. chauvin do anything to offer care to mr. floyd? >> no. >> did ever either let up or get up so he could breathe? >> no. >> did you ever see him try to administer cpr? >> no. >> did he call anyone else to administer cpr to mr. floyd? >> no. >> did he call out to the bystanders anyone who might be able to administer cpr? >> not at all. >> did an ambulance arrive at some point to the scene? >> yes. >> you saw the ambulance arrive? >> yes.

>> roughly how many minutes after you first started watching what was happening to mr. floyd did the ambulance show up? >> the end of my video. the video was about ten minutes. i would say maybe somewhere around nine. i'm not sure. >> was there at any point, whether it was 9 or 10 minutes, that mr. chauvin ever got up off the neck of mr. floyd that you saw? >> no. if anything he was kneeling harder. it was like he was shoving his knee in his neck. >> so was it your experience as bystanders cried out, that mr. chauvin kneeled even harder? >> can you rephrase that? >> you told us that it looked like mr. chauvin was kneeling

harder on mr. floyd. was there anything in response to that he was kneeling hard? >> i feel like he was feeding off of our energy. >> calls for speculation. >> can we take our morning break at this time? >> yes, your honor. we are going to break until 1:15. we are in recess. okay. another sidebar here. looks like they are taking a quick break. we have been listening to darnella frazier. for the record we have been given permission to use first and last names. these witnesses are not being identified by their face. darnella turned 18 last week. the prosecutor and former chief public defender are here.

mary, let me start with you. we heard darnella get emotional describing what she saw and heard, recalling the fact that she let her cousin inside the shop out of fear initially of what she was going to see go down. what do we make of her testimony so far, mary? >> i think it's quite good. there are some facts we didn't know about. the cousin wearing the green shirt that said love, that she escorted her into cup foods because she didn't want her to witness what was happening to george floyd. she was tearful describing what she saw george floyd saying. there has been a lot of testimony where the state has tried to bring out that the bystanders were not threatening.

they were yelling out trying to get help. the defense is trying to argue that the bystanders were acting in a way that preventing the police from caring for george floyd. i think her testimony goes a long way towards pointing out what they were trying to do was help george floyd or get the police to understand that he desperately needed help. >> david, i was listening to her testimony. i wondered, how aggressive can a defense really be with a witness on cross-examination? she has already been emotional on the stand. what would be gained by being overly aggressive with darnella? >> nothing would be gained and you would significantly damage your case if you did that. for the most part jurors identify more with witnesses than attorneys. so as a rule of thumb, if you are being aggressive with

someone as a bystander, as she is, you want to be polite. the most meaningful part of her testimony is the way she reacts to being taken back to that time. there is a time when you don't need to answer many questions at all. >> thanks for your insight. that's going to do it for me. i will see you back here tomorrow. but for now andrea mitchell will pick up our coverage. good day. i'm andrea mitchell in in washington. continuing our coverage of the derek chauvin trial. we heard an emotional witness. she was 17 at the time of the death. she was shooting the near viral vide